It Was A Little Strange The Way It All Happened
The Orlando Sentinel reports from Florida. “Central Florida’s flood of foreclosures is swamping one of the area’s fastest-growing minority groups. That’s because Hispanic homebuyers, as the nationwide housing bubble expanded and then deflated earlier this decade, wound up with a disproportionate number of the high-risk, high-interest loans known as subprime mortgages. ‘It was cultural greed. … They were overselling the American dream,’ said Orlando mortgage lender José Hoyos, an expert witness in foreclosure cases. Lenders were telling prospects, ‘You’re Hispanic — you deserve the best. You deserve that house in Windermere. You are a janitor? Oh, no, no, no — you own a janitorial business. No, you don’t have to put any money down.’”
“Arturo Fernandez moved his family here from Colorado in 2002. Seven years later, the Walt Disney World bus driver is financially ruined, having filed bankruptcy in February. His wife of 35 years is prepared to leave him and live with their son, if the son moves to Colorado for employment opportunities. They have lost their rental home in Poinciana and worry about being evicted from their main residence near Kissimmee.”
“‘We came for the dream of America,’ Arturo Fernandez said, ‘but I lost everything. I’m living right now check by check.’”
The Herald Tribune in Florida. “A yearlong Herald-Tribune investigation into thousands of suspicious Florida flip deals found that lenders of all kinds approved risky deals and ignored obvious red flags for mortgage fraud. Using public records and Internet searches, the Herald-Tribune identified hundreds of deals that exhibited classic red flags for fraud. They include sales between family members and business partners in which prices increased $100,000 or more overnight. In other cases, flippers repeatedly traded properties from their company to their own name, each time increasing the price and the amount they borrowed.”
“Lenders knew they were writing bad loans, but did it anyway because they were making so much money on underwriting fees, said Jack McCabe, a Deerfield Beach-based real estate consultant who has been studying Florida housing fraud for years.”
“‘There’s no doubt during the boom years in Florida there were lenders who were fully knowledgeable of rings of people who were acquiring loans without any plans to pay them back and were out to pocket as much money as they could,’ McCabe said. ‘They knew in the pit of their stomachs that what they were doing would bring the system crashing down. But they didn’t say anything because they did not want to be blamed for ending the gravy train.’”
The Daily Business Review in Florida. “Boca Developers’ ambitious plan to convert a former landfill in North Miami into a mixed-use community has come to an end. Wells Fargo Bank, trustee for Credit Suisse and First Boston, plans to foreclose on the delinquent developer within two weeks. In 2002, Boca Developers signed a ground lease with the city to build 5,999 condos, a 200-room hotel and 400,000 square feet of retail space on the land. Boca Developers only built 373 units before the real estate market collapsed.”
“Deerfield Beach-based Boca Developers owes the lenders $198.5 million, according to Peter Hoelzle, vice president of TriMont Real Estate Advisors in Atlanta. TriMont is the trust’s special servicer, which manages default loans for the lenders. He said Boca Developers won’t challenge the foreclosure suit.”
“‘It will be a consensual, an agreed foreclosure … if you will,’ he said.”
The Lehigh Acres Citizen in Florida. “Lehigh Acres Fire Board commissioners have voted to support a resolution asking legal counsel to pursue a special election to ask the voters to pay a $100 special assessment on each of the 128,000 parcels in Lehigh Acres. That is in addition to the 3 mils they have voted on.”
“Several people spoke before the fire board, including Kevin Shea, recognized in Lehigh for his knowledge of being able to analyze numbers. ‘Lehigh Acres is in a mini-depression. My parents lived through the Great Depression as adults. RealtyTrac a national firm that tracks foreclosures noted today that Lehigh had 17,978 properties in pre foreclosure 9,457 defaults, 4,888 Sheriff sales, 3,167 bank owned, and others. The foreclosure activity in Lehigh Acres has skyrocketed. Since July 10 the numbers have doubled. The situation is very bad, he said.”
The News Journal in Florida. “Nationally, at the current sales pace, there’s about a 40-month supply of homes on the market for $750,000 or more, according to the National Association of Realtors. That’s more than double the stock in mid-2007. ‘Obviously, the smaller homes are selling more,’ said Rachel McGrath, a Realtor in the Port Orange office of high-end broker Stirling Sotheby’s International Realty. ‘There is some resistance in the $500,000 and above market.’”
“A $2.8 million home and land in Bunnell has been on the market for more than 1,100 days, according to Realtor.com. An 8,200-square-foot home in Edgewater selling for almost $4 million has been for sale for more than 1,000 days, almost three years. In Ponce Inlet, a $2.6 million home has been listed for more than 900 days and it’s been almost 900 days since a $3.9 million New Smyrna Beach home went on the market.”
“‘Two years was normal for a seven-figure home sale before,’ said Sheriff Guindi, founder and owner of Prudential Transact Realty.”
The State in South Carolina. “Lenders were foreclosing on Charleston-area homes at a record pace in the second quarter of the year until the state’s highest court issued a rule that slowed the trend, leading to fewer foreclosures throughout South Carolina. Though the drop is probably not a sign of an economic rebound, it shows that the S.C. Supreme Court’s order has kept hundreds of local homeowners out of immediate danger of losing their homes.”
“When the economy began to sour, Family Services counselors often met with low-income residents who used risky mortgages to buy their homes. Now, their typical client is more affluent. ‘This is someone who was making $200,000 to $250,000 a year, never needed help from anyone, had all the toys and a big house,’ said Debbie Kidd, who oversees foreclosure counseling for the nonprofit Family Services Inc. in North Charleston. ‘And someone in that household has lost a good job, … and getting another job like that is tough right now.’”
“While the Supreme Court order could help struggling homeowners, housing market analysts say the rule could prolong the real estate market’s recovery. Wachovia economist Mark Vitner said the ruling could buy time for homeowners who are able to find a job or reorganize their finances. But for other homeowners, it simply delays the inevitable loss of a home, which will later be put up for sale in a time when many houses are on the market.”
“‘We have an oversupply of houses, and the market is not going to balance until the number of qualified buyers equals the number of homes,’ Vitner said.”
The Birmingham News in Alabama. “Regions Financial Corp. Chief Executive Dowd Ritter said Tuesday he will urge the company’s board to reinstate the dividend as soon as loan losses subside, which he said is hard to predict. Regions said Tuesday it continues to be vexed by bad loans stemming from the 2001 through 2005 housing boom and the recession that economists now say started late in 2007.”
“Ritter said there is no magic in raising the company’s share price, which has fallen 89 percent since Regions and crosstown rival AmSouth Bancorp combined in November 2006 in a blockbuster same-city deal that has so far disappointed investors. ‘The issue is when do credit losses begin to subside?’ Ritter said in an interview after the Birmingham-based bank reported a $244 million second-quarter loss Tuesday. ‘Right now, they are continuing to deteriorate.’”
“Morgan Keegan & Co., the brokerage arm of Birmingham-based Regions Financial Corp., improperly sold risky auction-rate bonds to customers who thought they were buying safe investments, according to state and federal regulators. The SEC suit and Alabama securities sanction is the latest trouble for Morgan Keegan. This month, the SEC notified Morgan Keegan that its mutual funds sales practices are under scrutiny for possible violations. The company is facing dozens of lawsuits and hundreds of arbitration cases over mutual funds that were tied to subprime mortgage bonds.”
“Auction-rate securities are bonds whose interest-rate payout to investors resets at periodic auctions where investors bid against each other in a competition to see who will accept the lowest rate. Auction securities were devised to give investors the time horizon of a long-term bond, with the liquidity and interest-rate payout of a short-term one. Auctions for such securities collapsed in 2008 after the credit crunch, the housing market collapse and the start of the recession.”
“‘Morgan Keegan was clearly aware that the ARS market was deteriorating, but it went so far as to actually accelerate its ARS sales even after other firms’ ARS auctions began to fail,’ Robert Khuzami, director of the SEC’s enforcement unit, said in a statement.”
The Augusta Chronicle in Georgia. “It wasn’t hard last week for Donny Moore to decorate his new office at Brenau University’s Augusta office on Davis Road. After all, it was just 13 months ago that he had moved all the furniture out of it. Mr. Moore retired last year from his job with plans to ride his Harley Davidson through the north Georgia mountains and to buy a new home in Alabama with his wife. But those plans were foiled when the country’s housing market collapsed.”
“‘Unfortunately we just didn’t see the crystal ball that talked about the most devastating economic turn since the Great Depression,’ said Mr. Moore, who resumed his job at the school last week after failing to sell his Columbia County home.”
“Mr. Moore’s replacement had housing troubles of her own. Angela Elkowitz moved to Augusta to fill his position at the university, but she was also unable to sell her home back in Gainesville, Ga., despite putting it on the market for a year. Nationally, builder confidence in the market for new single-family homes rose two points to 17 in July, according to the National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo Housing Market Index. While it still hovers at historically low levels, that number is the highest since September 2008.”
“But confidence was in short supply for Ms. Elkowitz, at least when it comes to the market. She is now living with her husband near Fort Campbell, Ky. When he deploys to Afghanistan in January, Ms. Elkowitz said, she will move back to the house in Gainesville. And when he’s done, she doesn’t think she’ll put it on the market again. Renting, she said, sounds so much better.”
“‘It was kind of a little strange the way it all happened,’ she said.”
‘Economist Mark Vitner said the ruling could buy time for homeowners who are able to find a job or reorganize their finances. But for other homeowners, it simply delays the inevitable loss of a home, which will later be put up for sale in a time when many houses are on the market.’
‘We have an oversupply of houses, and the market is not going to balance until the number of qualified buyers equals the number of homes,’ Vitner said.’
Yes, this is really hard to understand. I see houses that have been empty and in disrepair for a year, maybe two. Weeds five feet high and the neighbors just wish something would happen. But keep feeding the bears, politicians. You guys are making a bad situation worse by the day.
200+ developed lots in our tiny town. TWO have sold so far this year, a dozen all last year. Yet not a single development has been foreclosed. Not a single developer has lowered lot prices. A rolling loan gathers no loss, but we sure are growing some serious weeds.
When the firesale finally comes, buy four adjoining lots and build one house.
It’d be funny to buy 4 houses and connect them with a catwalk tunnel roof to roof. Like a hamster Habitrail thing.
That existed in the town where I grew up. Some rich dude built his two daughters mini-mansions that were mirror images of each other. (Not McMansions, this was in the 20’s when you actually built houses, not crapshacks) They were on adjoining lots and had an enclosed breezeway between them so they could visit eachother without having to expose themselves to the elements.
connect them with a catwalk tunnel roof to roof. Like a hamster Habitrail thing.
How perfectly Kahlo-Rivera of you!
The ΔΔΔ sorority house at UNC Chapel Hill looks like that. I’ve been past it a few times.
Heh, same in my neck of the woods. The development spanned a county road and the traffic noise is not good. They went ahead and built some Potemkin houses on the more desirable side so I figured they’d sold some. Lo and behold 4 sale signs sprung up in front.
The other side is all “improved” and ready but not one lot is being built on. That side was platted 30 years ago, when it might have been a good idea, but came online during another housing bust. Owner finally decided to take a chance and walked right into another one. LOL
“Yes, this is really hard to understand. I see houses that have been empty and in disrepair for a year, maybe two. Weeds five feet high and the neighbors just wish something would happen”.
Ben, That’s what has me some what perplexed in our area here in S. Carolina. My wife and I went an looked at a development that has a large number of foreclosed and unfinished houses (for it’s size). What I fail to understand is what makes the REO/Bank etc. think that by holding properties off market or making starting bids high they will lose less.
The properties are rapidly falling into disrepair, siding left unfinished no windows or doors etc. It does not take long to turn into a knock down.
The place we looked had sold in the $350,000.00 to $450,000.00 range, I told my wife 2 years ago it was doomed. It’s about 1/3 sold and the folks living there are screwed, and becoming more screwed by the day.
Waiting for the magic recovery, I guess.
‘what makes the REO/Bank etc. think that by holding properties off market or making starting bids high they will lose less’
Well, I can only guess and that’s based on what I see locally. The fact is, these places are selling. I spoke with a couple yesterday that were buying a preforeclosure as an “investment.” Now, IMO they are probably going to lose money eventually. But this is a free country, and people can gamble if they want. Still, who can blame the lender for trying, especially with knife catchers running around. Notice that sales in places like Phoenix and Stockton are running near bubble levels.
What appears to be holding properties off the market is working to a degree right now. Will it be a mistake in the long run? My guess is it will. But this situation isn’t being dictated by the long run. And throw in the case load these REO departments have on their hands, and it’s anyones guess what is really going on.
All of this is why the government has no business encouraging people to buy houses IMO, especially now. We could see foreclosure activity increase for years and people buying even a couple of years from now may take big losses.
Basic human nature.
Everyone is putting off taking their medicine as long as possible, until the pain is worse than they medicine, or they are forced to take the medicine by someone else.
Or they know that they are totally screwed, but are hoping that something will happen (divine intervention/lottery win/green shoots/black swan event/herds of candy crapping unicorns) that will miraculously ride to the rescue and save everyone.
exactly- when you’re doomed, any time you can buy is good time
LMAO!!!!!
It Was A Little Strange The Way It All Happened
It’s a little strange seeing Posts from Ben, day-after-day.
I was getting used to the “All Bits Bucket All the Time” format.
Welcome back Mr. Jones!
But keep feeding the bears, politicians.
I thought those were alligators.
Oh, I thought he said that we should keep feeding the politicians to the bears. To keep them satiated so they’ll stop biting our friends, maybe?
“Yes, this is really hard to understand. I see houses that have been empty and in disrepair for a year, maybe two. Weeds five feet high and the neighbors just wish something would happen.”
How would realtors be able to create a sense of buyer urgency with all of those extra listings on the market?
Limiting inventory, market manipulating tax credits, headlining month over month numbers without even hinting at the year over year numbers. If I did not know better, I would be concerned about Arizona house prices. But future foreclosures must inevitably be priced in, so those worries are erased.
Looked at a bank-owned property earlier this week. It used to be a nice place with a large, heated, tiled pool, fountain and hot tub (must have been very nice - I imagine something out of ancient Greece or something). The house is almost 3000 sq ft. It was a disaster. Talked to a neighbor and the house has been vacant almost 1 year. Right before they were foreclosed on the “owners” put in an ad for an estate sale and proceeded to sell everything they could. Ripped up the floors, carpet, tile, tub, fireplace insert, cabinets, appliances, everything. All the tile around the pool structure outside was gone, too. Amazing they could get it off in a state that left somebody able to buy it. It was clear they could because it was all gone and some places in the house had lots of cracked tiles with a few missing and it was clear they gave up trying to pry them up. Blackberry plants at least 8 feet tall all along one side of the house. They’d also apparently tried remodeling because the huge vaulted ceilings had been turned into (un-permitted) extra bedrooms on the second floor. You could have this disaster for 265,000 cash. What a bargain in high unemployment Oregon. Oh, it also is part of a HOA, natch. Oh yeah, they also left tons of trash in every room. These people were not happy.
That reminds me of a story. My friend who lives in Folsom, CA walked out his front door one morning to see a crowed gathering in front of a house up the street. He walked up to see what was going on. Long story short, turns out the guy was loosing his home. He had just finished loading the custom cabinets and appliances in the u-haul out front and had took out a section of the fence on the side so he could get the Bobcat he was driving into the backyard.
Why, it sounds “wonderful” and “affordable!”
Surely, a great “investment!”
The same dump would probably sell for more in Maryland, so you must have a “steal!”
Gah, when will this Bubble end?!
“Now, their typical client is more affluent. ‘This is someone who was making $200,000 to $250,000 a year, never needed help from anyone, had all the toys and a big house,’ said Debbie Kidd, who oversees foreclosure counseling for the nonprofit Family Services Inc. in North Charleston. ‘And someone in that household has lost a good job, … and getting another job like that is tough right now.’”
Let me rephrase that….someone making a lot of money, with all the toys and a big house, and probably not a lot in savings thanks to the big house and all the toys.
BS all over this post. As a self-employed consultant (advertising), my business was in the toilet during the dot com meltdown here in the Bay Area. I made it through, thanks to a chunk of savings and a HELOC that I had never used. Got me through 3 years in a row of not making my numbers.
“Let me rephrase that….someone making a lot of money”
Making a lot of money in the RE market never to be seen again.
I’m in the self-employed boat too. I’ve found that when times get lean, it’s good to have a chunk of savings to tap into — and repay later on.
I’ve also found, and I’m not the only graphic designer to report such a thing, that business can go up during recessions. Why? Because during crunch times, companies (and, I might add, institutions because most of my design clients are universities) lay people like me off.
And then they realize that they have no one on staff who can redesign the website. So, who they gonna call? Us, the freelancers. The git ‘er done people.
Now, I’m not sitting here waiting by the phone for them to call. I’ve been doing a lot of outreach (read: cold-calling) into several universities. Over time, this has paid off. Quite well, in fact.
Besides, when a person is making a lot of money, they really ought to consider the possibility that their salary is an anomoly. Until you’ve saved up at least 1 years living expenses (not including your retirement fund and investment accounts), you probably should consider yourself a temporarily employed bum, and act that way.
‘Unfortunately we just didn’t see the crystal ball that talked about the most devastating economic turn since the Great Depression,’ said Mr. Moore’
Uh, what?
Just a Palin-esque restatement of “hoocoodanode.”
OOOOOOooooohhhhhh… There’s a crystal ball that talks now? I wanna talking CB too. I wannit, I wannit, I wannit now!
“I wanna talking CB too”
kkkrrrrrkkkhhhh!….Breaker 1-9…Breaker 1-9…..this here’s the Crystal D……SELL all ridiculously overpriced real estate now….repeat….SELL…..ooops…smokey ahead…over and out.
Over 20 years ago, when I was young and ( stupid ) optimistic ! I tried to live large. Big house, not so many toys, but still, wow. Owned our business. Insufficient savings to cushion downturns. We lost the business and had to sell the house at a losss. We didn’t go bankrupt, but spent many, many years paying back debt. Guess what. Even if I was making 200K as a household total, which we’re not, I still wouldn’t live large. I have personally experienced how fast that illusion can crumble.
I feel lucky to be watching most of this on the sidelines so far. We’re both still employed and renting. We’ve watched family members lose their businesses and suspect the houses are going next due to excessive leverage. We’ve been living below our means and so have over a year’s worth of both our salaries saved up.
“over a year’s worth of both our salaries saved up.”
I’m feeling a bit inadequate at the moment
Everybody does what they can. And it only takes a few years to start getting some serious cushion built up. We started out with some savings in 2007 when we almost blew every last penny we had on a shack in a crime ridden neighborhood. I had a mental breakdown at the thought, and my wife agreed to rent for awhile, and I found this blog and we watched the markets crash.
We both make about X, so we have 2x salary.
In 2007, we had maybe 1.3X salary in stocks and about .5X debt and about .5X in cash. We sold out of some of the volatile stock positions, retired the debt, and had about 1X salary in stocks and .3X in cash. The stocks tanked to .7X (I got out of the most volatile and stayed in stable blue chip non financials) over the next 2 years, but we socked away about 1X in cash/CDs over that time period, leaving us with 2X.
We also traded in both our cars for family sized cars during that period and had a baby.
So we’re only maintaining about a 25% savings rate. (Not counting fully funded 401(k) contributions.) Fortunately, I moved all our 401(k) out of the market the same time we sold our volatile stocks because we would have been hammered on the retirement accounts. We’re not doing that well on the 401(k)s with only about .7X in them currently with us in our mid 30s. I wish I had been maxing 401(k)s when I was in my first jobs. Such a waste of time. I didn’t come to be ‘thrifty’ until my very late 20’s and early 30s when I went through Grad School. My wife brought most of the cash in 2007 to the table, I brought the stock and the debt. Had I been better in my 20’s, I could have brought stock AND cash to the table.
Anyway, the point is that even a few years can build up substantial reserves if you live below your means.
Unfortunately, it only takes a year of bad luck to wipe you out. 
“when I was young and ( stupid ) optimistic ! I tried to live large… I have personally experienced how fast that illusion can crumble.”
I had my own mini Fiddy Cent moment in NYC — spent thousands of dollars on booze, food, and car service for me and my drunk buds. I do cherish the memories, but it was possible to do all of that without “buying into the dream,” especially in NYC. I thought that was my comeuppance in the music biz, so I can relate to $.50 telling his homies the party is over. Granted, I didn’t have hundreds of thousands “in the game,” but it was the same in the end.
I’ve never beat myself up over it, because that feeling occupies a small Pavlovian part of my brain that says, “dude, put your wallet away.” I’ve also since learned that you look like a complete jackass when you “make it rain!”
I think there is a small part of my brain that is still scared 25 years after the experiences I had with poverty, and bill collectors, and it has turned me into a little bit of a hoarder, really. But, I won’t have to turn to someone else if times get really, really hard, and can even take a couple of people into our boat, maybe. Just maybe. I really believe in having whatever assets one has spread out into cash ( real cash ), metals, food and water stocks, stocks, bonds, and savings in various banks. Whether it’s a little or a lot in total, I believe that it’s foolish to keep it all in one place.
Going back to school at age 40 had one good side effect: I had to learn to live like a pennyless student again. The decade I practiced law saw me living cheap and banking much. When I got burned out, I sold off my house and found I could immediately begin a frugal retirement.
My aphorism to those in the keeping-up-with-the-Joneses crowd:
Not HAVING to work is the greatest luxury of all.
Now that is luxury. That is my deal. Happy to rent nice studio. NO DEBT. Some savings. Happily I have a nice job but if it ends or I tire of it. No biggie. Could entry level retail and meet my needs.
“‘We came for the dream of America,’ Arturo Fernandez said, ‘but I lost everything. I’m living right now check by check.’”
I got this one guys…
…’Hey Arturo “Go Get some Boxes!”"
Sounds like he’s living the American Nightmare right now. A lot of us are, regardless of how recently we immigrated.
“I’m living right now check by check.”
I thought this quote was too funny; what he neglected to mention is that he has been living “check by check” for all of the past seven years! Just now the checks are smaller…
BOXES!!!, BOXES!!!!, AND MORE BOXES!!!!!
EVERYONE GET BOXES!!!!!!
When I am joking with my Bulgarian compatriots, which have felt the love of the garden hose we are talking CONTAINERS.
Feel the Love!!
““‘We came for the dream of America,’ Arturo Fernandez said, ‘but I lost everything. I’m living right now check by check.’”
Sn Fernandez, the American dream is you work hard, only buy what you can pay for, and invest wisely. I guess the ‘Dream of America’ is one in which you can buy anything you want without having to pay for it.
hmm.. very strange..
I distinctly recall reading the “American Dream” wikipedia page saying that the NAR, through their advertising efforts a few decades ago, was directly responsible for perverting the original meaning of the phrase to mean owning a house.
Being the scrupulous pre-fact-checking poster that i am, i just looked to verify that before posting it.. but the page no longer mentions realtor, house, estate or property..
Crap! I’m'a miss a Florida thread! I have some meetings this afternoon. A few Florida leftovers from other bits buckets:
1. X-GS, my tuition has increased 25% since I began USF in 2007
2. Palmy, I saw a thug chick at the Lowry Park Zoo that had “Lakeland” tattoed on her leg. Your guess is as good as mine.
3. Miami shark dudes — turns out they took the shark on the train, too! Paging Dr. Hiaasen!
Speaking of tattoos, the St. Pete Times had a good article on an arrest for a robbery earlier this week. The suspect was identified because of his ink — he’d tattooed an outline of the state of Florida on his face.
I like that story better than today’s news: the Ft. Myers Beach city manager has been fired, by a 5-0 vote, because the city commissioners discovered that his new wife is a porn star.
Thats kinda unfair to fire someone because of their wife’s occupation. Especially in Florida.
I guess they will be adding that question to the job application form.
That is really sad. Let’s assume he was a competent city manager. What does who he marries have to do with it? Any of the legal folks here think he has a case for discrimination?
I haven’t seen how hot she is, so I don’t know.
He should sue, mainly because I really wanna hear about the details of the lawsuit in the papers.
The outline of the state you live in tattooed on your face ????
Living large just took on a whole new meaning. Thank God, I am absolutely certain that I could absolutely never come up with the money for that. Even if I had a pile of million dollar bills sitting right next to me. Gads.
Oh they’ll do it for free, just to pass the time- sitting in a cell.
It’s impossible to spend a million dollar bill. Mark Twain wrote a short story about it. Quite good, like all of his stuff.
They raised it 7% on average at the Kansas schools (KU, KSU, Wichita State, Fort Hayes State, etc.).
OTOH……tuition 2009-2010 is around the $110/hr range, even after the increase. The USF website shows that they are approx. $152/hr @USF, so I guess it could be worse. She will be living with me (or my mom, if I get the final boot tomorrow….another story) about 5-10 minutes from school, so she won’t have to shell out money for room/food/etc.
She didn’t have any problems getting approved for student loans (if we need them……..if I can get her to get off her a$$ and get a decent part-time job, she might be able to get thru school without borrowing a fortune).
Tuition up 14% a year this year and next at Washington State. It will be interesting to see how that impacts enrollment.
I can’t understand why the “shark dudes” couldn’t sell the damn thing. They only wanted $10! The fish market guys say ‘we don’t buy sharks off the street’. What? This is Miami! We don’t have no stinking rules!
Could have made more money pulling out the teeth and selling them to tourists….
“Guess what. Even if I was making 200K as a household total, which we’re not, I still wouldn’t live large. I have personally experienced how fast that illusion can crumble.”
I’m with you 100%! I’ve always seen the good times as an opportunity to save and get ready for times that aren’t so good. That way, I sleep very well regardless of what the economy is doing.
Here in the Bay Area, there is a tremendous amount of competitive spend pressure. House, car, kids in private school, vacations every year, etc. Not a lot of happy people in my neck of the woods these days, I must say.
‘competitive spend pressure’
Californians really have a way with words.
Are we talking the Bay Area, or me and Palmy’s corner of the world (America’s wang)?
I’m guessing she means here in the SillyClown Valley.
And yes, there’s a lot of spend pressure. My wife and I both upgraded our cars recently. Because we both had 2 doors and we got pregnant. Her sister got pregnant around the same time and upgraded her car as well.
We got used late-model Toyotas after lots of haggling.
Sister got a lexus.
We actually looked at getting a ‘nice’ car for my wife. An 8 year old BWM with low milage. It was a very nice car, but my wife said she just couldn’t justify spending that much on it.
We’re renting in a terrible school district right now, and are waiting for the good school districts to get cheap enough to buy into. Failing that, we’ll rent in a better school district.
“Play dates” is another term that seems to be California-exclusive.
When everybody commutes from 50 miles away in random directions and never get to know people in their kid’s schools or neighborhoods, you kinda have to schedule play dates.
Or, you know, learn to know the people in your neighborhood.
We’re renting in a terrible school district right now, and are waiting for the good school districts to get cheap enough to buy into. Failing that, we’ll rent in a better school district.
Why won’t you rent in a good school district?
Right now we don’t because it’s cheaper. And I said if houses don’t get cheap enough when the baby is old enough to need school, we’ll rent in a good school district.
LOL.
I know some Bay Area people and the pressure is just as strong there as in the “superficial” SoCal area. It just that NorCal spends on the *better* things.
In a national blog like Ben’s I always refer to the SF Bay Area to avoid confusion. People around Long Beach refer to themselves as Bay Area people. Same with those around the Chesapeake Bay, or Mass. “the Bay State”.
Here in the O.C. (Orange County, Ca)
it has just got to be ground zero
for ‘competitive spend pressure’.
Indeed. The folks I know in the bay are the definition of debt slaves, and for the lifestle that their locale offers, I’m not sure what the rationale is.
“Californians really have a way with words.”
Being in advertising helps, too -);
hey smarty pants.. hit the “Reply to this comment” to keep your replies in context.
Are you talking SF bay area or that bay area somewhere near LA?
Are you talking SF bay area or that bay area somewhere near LA?
San Francisco Bay Area. Marin County, specifically. It’s ground zero for folks up to their eyeballs in debt.
The smug in Marin is so thick, you could cut it with a knife.
Isn’t it amazing how that works, and people forget they are just people?
Hollywood’s movin’ to Michigan, from what I’m hearing on the news. I still think that with the caving of housing prices around here, eventually we’ll have quite an influx of bargain hunters. You can get a Californication trilevel for $ 89,900 or less around here, in a fantastic school district. Plymouth/Canton. No kidding.
According to the stock market, 3 months of up sales and woooohooooeeee
we are on a growth spreee.
Dow over 9 and yet, no jobs in sight. Plus day isn’t over for mkt.
Yeah, and, isn’t it pretty normal to have up sales in time to settle before school starts? It’s not like it’s huge news. At least not to me.
MSNBC suggests that housing will lead us out of this recession… Good luck with that!
“MSNBC suggests that housing will lead us out of this recession… Good luck with that!”
If it does, this is going to be the longest “recession” in history.
GAH! These comments are so confusing. We’re being locusted by the Clownifornians!! Lol…
Raise your hand if you know where the Sponge Docks are, or you know what SOH means, or if you illegally place you car registration sticker on whatever corner of your tag is free!
Two sisters are grads of USF. Been to the sponge docks many times. Unfortunately, I am too familiar w/SOH. Don’t know what you’re talking about in re to reg and free tag. Sorry Muggy.
I’m down with Tarpon Springs.
(Raises hand)
My hands raised both times Muggy!! I mean both hands are raised? Whatever. I miss the sponge docks!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone care to enlightest us gentle readers who live in the saner states?
Speakin’ only for me, but not Palmy or Muggy, NOT us Floridians!!
All these fraudulent transactions had a huge bearing in driving up the
prices and appraisals during the real estate crime wave . Very strange how real estate was sold during those boom years . Without the lenders doing the underwriting job ,and appraisers just hitting the mark based on just the fact that the house sold ,the sales people went nuts . Refinances were based on inflated real estate also ,so the equity ATM machine contributed
to the extreme losses taking place now . I’m saying the refinance and equity loan market was equally corrupt . What does pulling out a bunch of money from your house have to do with home ownership ? Use a house to finance a upscale life style you deserve ,or even use the house to pay for the mortgage of the house ,because you can’t really afford the house . All the while Wall Street taking their cut on these transactions as well as placing a bunch of casino side bets on the whole ponzi-scheme . I still picture Mozilo screaming ,”The government has got to do something,” after he got caught holding the bag on a bunch of junk loans he couldn’t unload right when the crash first hit .
OT: Yesterday’s shark attack occurred off the dock of a house I used to live down the street from. I still paddle in Boca Ciega every so often, and I would not swim there. The last shark death in Pinellas County was in the same area.
I’ve seen plenty of small black tips there, but I know the bulls are around. One of my friends who grew up here always says, “If it ain’t chlorinated, and I can’t see the bottom, I ain’t swimmin’ in it.
Your friend is very Yoda wise Muggy.
SanFranGal:
I read your reply this morning. I hope your Mother does well with this. Went through it with both Mom and Dad.
I have a good idea how your emotions are right now.
Birds of a feather…
P.S. You are a sweet person. My thoughts and prayers will be with you.
Thank you ATE-Up for the compliment and prayers.
Forgot to add you’re pretty sweet also.
“If it ain’t chlorinated, and I can’t see the bottom, I ain’t swimmin’ in it.”
Agree about seeing the bottom, it’s good policy in Florida. But the chlorinated part, there’s two sides to that. Some of the lakes do have that listeria crap and swimming in them during the hot weather ain’t too smart. However, I do like the springs and some of the clear rivers for a refreshing dip. Nothing better than tubing down the Itchetucknee on a hot summer’s day.
“However, I do like the springs and some of the clear rivers for a refreshing dip. Nothing better than tubing down the Itchetucknee on a hot summer’s day.”
Oh! No doubt. I took my out-of-state, nature-hating, city-boy friends to Weeki Wachee a few months back, and they loved it. I have to say paddling down Weeki Wachee puts me in a state of mind that is very hard to come by.
I’ve known several native Floridians who refused to swim in the ocean, period. (Always kind of unsettled me as I thought they might know something I didn’t.) Conversely, my new england grandad refused to swim in a pool. “It’s like a big public baathtub,” he’d bray in a new englandy kind of way.
I’ve enjoyed swimming every since I wuz a pup. Ocean, lake, river, springs, pools, love them all. But having lived in both New England and Florida, there’s definitely things to be aware of when swimming in natural bodies of water. I rather like the Atlantic Coast of Florida for swimming, just beware of shark alerts. Seems the Daytona area is worse than others, but maybe that’s just my perception. You can have the Gulf. IMO, it’s one huge toilet, unfortunately. Some of the posters on this blog know I really like the springs and rivers, when I can get to them. Florida lakes, not so much. New England is a different story, there are very swimmable lakes up there where you don’t have to worry if a gator is going to chomp on you, whether or not you can see the bottom. Certain parts of the Atlantic Coast in New England are just a little too rough and cold for my tastes. Love the Rhode Island coast, though.
These days, in addition to natural hazards, one has to be aware of man-made hazards that didn’t used to exist, like chemical and sewage runoff. There are lakes in Florida that people remember fondly as clear, sandy-bottom recreation spots when they were kids. Now those lakes are murky and grassy from nutrients and such. One guy was telling me how he nearly drowned in a lake not far from here, getting his legs tangled in the grasses and weeds growing on the bottom.
I once was swimming in the Fernandina Beach area with a friend, and the water was very murky. Every time I took a step, I swear I kicked a fish. I asked my friend if she was doing the same and she (characteristically) was oblivious to it. We eventually got out of the water and 2 guys came up and started fishing about 30 feet away on either side of us. The guy on our left promptly catches two small, very cool looking hammerheads- each about 18 inches long. The guy on our right promptly catches one similar hammerhead and a small bull shark (even freakier looking). I then realized we had been swimming in a school of baby sharks. I wonder if they were using us as “protection” from even larger sharks? No shark alerts though- wouldn’t want to scare us tourists.
Yeah, when I was a kid, we used to stay at Port Aransas in Texas. We would bump into little sharks all the time. You could tell they were sharks cuz their skin is rough like sandpaper.
Yeah, they’re not smooth/slimey like a fish. And they don’t really dart away as fast either. They kind of slowly get out of your way. Sheesh. That why I like a few beers in my belly when I get in the ocean. Makes it more tranquil-like.
When I lived in Pinellas I recall that Lake Seminole was the habitat for many alligators. Every once in a while those gators would eat small dogs that ventured too close to the shore.
So while you’re paddling about in Boca Ciega, be sure to keep your eye out for gators as well as sharks.
I’ve always heard the gators were more dangerous than the sharks. And that they liked dog.
Sounds right. Gators can follow you up onto the land.
nnn
The most disgusting information in that Herald Tribune series is the unwillingness for any law enforcement (local, state, federal) is interested in prosecuting the serial flip scammers. The article stated the “vast majority” will never be prosecuted.
So if enough people do it, we’re all safe. OK folks, what’s the next profitable scam that we should all participate in?
I’m thinking fraudulent medicare billing. Oops, already going on. How ’bout fraudulent student loan scams? Nope, already being done. Dang, we’re gonna have to get creative here!
Relabel any watt of electricity as “green” and charge 3 X as much for it… simple.
How about flipping mining claims?
Family has a mining claim up on the Salmon River in Northern, CA.
Rumor has it one of the locals who had a claim to the mineral rights on a nearby creek sold out to a Canadian mining company for $1m. Last I heard there were huge dump trucks hauling lots of rock from the area. Good luck extracting the gold.
That guy must be laughing all the way to the bank.
..what’s the next profitable scam that we should all participate in?
I predict that someone will mention something to do with taxes before this thread ends..
see? I was right!
I’m the greatest pitcher in the world!
Actually, right now Mark Buehrle is
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32109513/ns/sports-baseball/
The only previous perfect game for the White Sox was by Charles Robertson at Detroit on April 30, 1922.
i was channel flipping and thought i saw a Giants no hitter celebration a few days ago.. sound was down so wasn’t sure.. but yeah.
www dot mercurynews.com/athletics/ci_12873168
not perfect but still the 1st no-hit in 33 years..
Ahem! Don Larsen pitched a perfect game during the 1956 World Series.
Of the party-hearty Larsen, Casey Stengel once said, “The only thing he fears is sleep.”
And Stengel was no slouch in the “fun -n- games before and after the games” department. I have a picture of him with my paternal grandfather, who was a baseball writer. Grandpa and Casey Stengel both look like they’d tied a few on.
That is a very cool story Slim.
having nothing better to do i looked that up..
wiki page on larsen:
“He was pitching for the New York Yankees in Game 5 of the 1956 World Series against the Brooklyn Dodgers, on October 8, 1956. His perfect game remains the only no-hitter of any type ever pitched in postseason play.”
.. yanks.. not the white sox..
There’s already a FAKE “law school” called Freedom Law School in the Los Angeles area. They teach “students” how to cheat on your taxes and get away with it. They have some oddball theory that “paying taxes to the IRS is voluntary”. Students clog the courts with bogus lawsuits against the IRS for non-payment of income tax.
http://www.livefreenow.org
‘It was cultural greed. … They were overselling the American dream,’ said Orlando mortgage lender José Hoyos, an expert witness in foreclosure cases. Lenders were telling prospects, ‘You’re Hispanic — you deserve the best. You deserve that house in Windermere. You are a janitor? Oh, no, no, no — you own a janitorial business. No, you don’t have to put any money down.’”
‘nuf said.
Hey Palmy, how are ya? Noticed no turbulence yet on NOAA. That is good. Watch out September though. I remember well. Miss home.
Doing OK, ATE. So far, so good on the storm front, but that can change in a day. Late August, September is the scary time.
Glad you’re doing good Palmy. Someday, I would really like to meet you, (and others here too I might add).
Yeah…
Illinois Boy says, “I’m goin’ to Florida, that will piss the ex off” August 2004.
Well. My Little Friends Francis, Jeannie, Charley, and (Palmy was it Ivan)?, decided to pay me/you a visit, w/in 6 weeks of my arrival. All I lost was half a roof and power for 8 weeks.
This is why you and me like “Concrete Shacks”, right Palmy?
“This is why you and me like “Concrete Shacks”, right Palmy?”
You betcha, ATE!
I remember that hurricane season well. Sure was weird.
Yeah, 2004 was a really bad hurricane season.
Charley was still blowing winds in excess of 100 mph over a hundred mile from where he made land fall. That scared the poop out of me because up until Charlie, I always believed that hurricanes dissapated very quickly once they hit land. Parts of Orlando and points north were without power for a week after Charlie. Jeanne and Frances were a pair of blow hard twins that were full of piss and vinegar and took very similar paths. I am grateful that the forecast for Ivan’s track kept heading further and further west and missed Gainesville.
That hurricane season was very draining mentally and emotionally.
I hate hurricanes, and September was my least favorite month to live in Florida.
+1 Bub.
Where’s Oly Gal? She hasn’t been around for a few days.
“ambitious plan to convert a former landfill in North Miami into a mixed-use community”
You must seeour half-million dollar condo in Garbage Acres. It’s just simply darling!
Boca Developers signed a ground lease with the city to build 5,999 condos, a 200-room hotel and 400,000 square feet of retail space on the land.
What’s a “ground lease”? Did they get a 99 year lease on the land instead of just buying it in fee simple? Selling a condo without owning the land under them sounds fishy to me.
This is a great article, In the boom everyone was trying to live the american dream….The banks were happy cause like everyone else they were making money untill it came time to collect on the loans! I met one person who sells watchs at a local mall who has 4 homes with loans over 400K on each….Needless to say he is losing all of them and living check to check!…….all we can do is live and learn and hope things get better soon!
Ya, not sure when this American dream became owning a house and spending more money than you had. I thought it was more about choosing your own destiny…becoming an independent self made person.
Happy to see the frugality forced on everyone. As for me, next month I will celebrate hitting 12 months in the liquid savings fund, and am at about 9 months in the solid safety fund (value of gold and silver in possession along with guns and ammo, good tradables if things really go to hell, easily sold if they don’t, seeds and canned food.)
Someone mentioned earlier, really easy to sleep at night when you know you don’t need a job to live for quite some time!
“The mortgage brokers scam.” You brought in your taxes and bank statements. Your broker says you’re self-employed so you need an Option-Arm due to your fluctuating income. What he didn’t tell you is he didn’t use your taxes to create the loan. He didn’t have to. No doc. and stated income loans allowed the broker to write down whatever and say you lied.
All he had to do was make sure you signed and verify your bank statements showed enough cash reserves to survive a few years. Escrow closes and you spend the first year either making the Negative payments or combining your income with savings to make the interest or full. If you would have defaulted within the first year the lender would have raised a red flag. But you didn’t. Now its two years later and you can’t figure out where your savings is going. You qualified for the loan. What’s wrong? The answer. You never qualified to make the principal plus interest in the first place. You only qualified at best to make the Negative payment. It has nothing to do with the adjustment. Now even if that red flag appeared the lender wouldn’t have cared. They took out an L.P.M.I. (lenders paid mortgage insurance). I don’t mean the P.M.I. I’m talking about the high-risk insurance policy they took out on you. They were required to give you a written statement telling you you were a high-risk before the loan closed. Why? It caused you to pay a higher interest rate. It’s under… TITLE 12 CHAPTER 49–HOMEOWNERS PROTECTION
Sec. 4905. Disclosure requirements for lender paid mortgage insurance.
If you lied about the income then how does that income add up to be three times more than what was on your taxes. Did you lie to the IRS paying more in taxes so you could go out an qualify for a house you never could afford? Where is the loan data? Why was the income so difficult to prove. Does everyone in America work for cash?
TITLE 12 CHAPTER 29–HOME MORTGAGE DISCLOSURE
Sec. 2803. Maintenance of records and public disclosure.
Loan data is suppose to be on file for 3 years after the first year.
Are we now required to read the auto manual and supervise the mechanic before we sign for repairs? Are we now required to study medical journals before we sign and agree to surgery. Investigations found Toyota parts in my GM. Too bad. You signed. You lied. I got treated for Herpes when I had cold. Too bad. You signed. You lied. Who’s investigating the orgination of these loans?
Yes, it is outrageous. But, I would suggest the amount of “checking up” you do on a business transaction should relate to the size and importance of the transaction. Financing a home at a purchase price ten-times that of your annual earnings, you might want to take at least a few hours to Google some info about types of mortgages and the history of the real estate industry. Maybe even insist on reading and understanding a contract before signing it.
I don’t run background checks on the help at a restaurant before ordering lunch, but I did run one on the seller before buying a home. If you don’t act cautiously when it really matters, the evolutionary process may weed you out in favor of those who do (barring a government bailout, when evolution is set in reverse).