More Of An Intended Feature Than A Flaw
A report from the New York Times by Robert Shiller. “There is still no consensus on why the last housing boom and bust happened. That is troubling, because that violent housing cycle helped to produce the Great Recession and financial crisis of 2007 to 2009. But the explanations for what happened in housing are not, I think, to be found in the conventional data favored by economists but rather in sociologically important narratives — like tales of getting rich through ‘flipping’ houses and shares of initial public offerings — that constitute the shifting mentality of the era. Consider the data for a moment. It shows us that extreme changes took place but doesn’t tell us why.”
“Real home prices rose 75 percent from February 1997 to December 2005, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller National Home Price Index, corrected for inflation by the Consumer Price Index. And then, from 2005 to 2012, real prices reversed course, falling to just 12 percent above their 1997 level. In the years since 2012, they have climbed 29 percent, about halfway back to their 2005 peak. This is a roller coaster in national home prices — it has been even scarier in some more volatile cities — yet we have no clarity on why it happened.”
“One thing is clear: The prevalent narratives of 1997 to 2005 did not include the concept of a housing bubble, not at first. A computer search using ProQuest or Google Ngrams shows that the phrase ‘housing bubble’ was hardly used until 2005, the end of the boom. Instead, during the 1997 to 2005 boom there were multitudes of narratives about smart investors who were bold enough to take a position in the market. To single out one strand, recall the stories of flippers who would buy a house, fix it up, and resell it within months at a huge profit.”
“This generated buzz. When renters and speculators flipped their purchase contracts at a big profit, sometimes using borrowed money for down payments to flip multiple units without actually even closing on the condos, it was thrilling. It seemed that anyone with energy and initiative could get rich doing this. These narratives are still potent and could easily spur further spirals in the housing market.”
The Sun Sentinel in Florida. “In the head-spinning world of ultra-luxury real estate, slapping a price tag on a mansion sometimes is less about market value than it is about what one agent calls ‘crazy math.’ Singer Celine Dion reportedly sold her Jupiter Island digs for close to the $38.5 million asking price — but the home originally was listed in 2013 for $72.5 million. Farther down the coast, oceanfront mega mansions in Manalapan and Hillsboro Beach once for sale at more than $150 million each have been pulled off the market in recent weeks.”
“The two listings had drawn skepticism from real estate agents, who said the eye-popping prices are more appropriate for the bright lights of New York or the majestic foothills of California than South Florida. ‘Owners, developers and agents have been overpricing uber-luxury properties in South Florida for as long as I can remember,’ said Jack McCabe, a housing analyst in Deerfield Beach. ‘Sometimes I think people are pulling these numbers out of dark places. Chances are, these listing prices are never going to fly.’”
From Bloomberg on Canada. “Canadian government officials delivered a vote of confidence in the country’s housing sector and banking system, telling lawmakers that Vancouver and Toronto’s real estate markets are supported by fundamentals that leave risks well-contained. The core message from the officials was Canada’s market was stable and, despite some risks, policy makers’ measures are taking effect.”
“‘We don’t think there’s any systemic risk across the country,’ said Phil King, a director at the economic and fiscal policy branch at Finance Canada. ‘There are specific pockets of concern, which seem to have ameliorated somewhat in the very-near term but we’re keeping a very close eye on those.’ Vancouver and Toronto have ‘very, very strong fundamentals’ supporting prices including immigration, strong job creation, strong income gains and high wealth, he said.”
The Globe and Mail in Canada. “After holding on to their rapidly appreciating asset for so long, some sellers in the Greater Toronto Area appear to be rushing headlong to cash in. Buyers who lamented that there were so few listings now seem incapacitated by the amount of choice. ‘I think they’re overwhelmed – there are so many houses to look at,’ says Toronto real estate agent Davelle Morrison. ‘No matter what neighbourhood they want to be in, there are so many houses to look at.’”
“In another harbinger of change, Ms. Morrison has also started receiving phone calls that are strange to her ears: Listing agents are pleading for her to bring her house hunting clients to their properties. Ms. Morrison recently listed a duplex for sale in the posh enclave of Moore Park. It’s the kind of property that appeals to both investors and those who want to live in half of the house while renting out the rest. ‘No agents booked showings,’ she says.”
“Ms. Morrison listed a duplex for sale in downtown Toronto with an asking price of $1.26-million. When it didn’t sell within days, buyers began to wonder what’s wrong with the house. They were interested in the location and the property, she says, but they became wary when there wasn’t a bidding frenzy. ‘How often do you get houses that are walking distance to the St. Lawrence Market?’ she says in disbelief.”
“She recently generated a new round of showings when she cut the asking price to $1.199-million. Sellers, she believes, figure the time is right to take some profits after a stunning run-up in prices over several years. But some sellers have waited too long, she believes. Those who might have received eight offers earlier in the year may now get only two. ‘Some of the sellers are greedy and they just want more and more and more,’ she says. ‘We’re in a new market now – you can’t expect the moon.’”
From Tropic Now in Australia. “The current state of Cairns real estate is confounding the public and the data is at odds with the anecdotal evidence. Tourism, investment and economic confidence are all on the rise but median house prices remain decidedly flat, and that’s despite our enviable level of housing affordability relative to capital city markets. To confuse matters even further, a disconnect is developing between the median house price and the top end of the market, which is flying high.”
“Gone are the rollercoaster days of the past 20 years. Today, we’re seeing a much steadier, more sustainable growth pattern. In an attempt to cut a clear path through various reports and statistics, Tropic looks back at where the local real estate market has come from before we look ahead, to get a handle on where it’s all going over the next few years. Those who were here at the time call them the ‘golden years,’ a champagne period of extraordinary growth that fuelled prosperity in the Tropical North for a decade leading up to the Global Financial Crisis of 2007-08.”
“Buoyed by out-of-town investors grabbing residential property bargains, price rises were running at between 10 and 30 per cent in different areas of Cairns from 2000 to 2004. The market was so lucrative back then that some local real estate agents were able to retire years before the rest of us are meant to. Agents of a certain vintage remember the days of selling a $60,000 Queenslander near the Esplanade or Cairns North one year and $400,000 just five or so years later.”
The Los Angeles Daily News. “Total household debt reached $12.73 trillion as of March 31, eclipsing the previous record of $12.68 trillion set during the third quarter of 2008, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York revealed. Among the major debt categories, mortgage balances accounted for $8.63 trillion, followed by $1.34 trillion in student loan debt, $1.17 trillion in auto loan debt, $764 billion in credit card balances and $456 billion in home equity lines of credit.”
“While the debt bubbles began to reinflate after the aftermath of the Great Recession, the composition of that debt has changed, with mortgage debt making up a smaller share and debt from auto loans, and especially student loans, much higher. Among a selection of 11 states, including the most populous states, California had the highest debt balance per capita of $68,460, nearly 44 percent higher than the national average of $47,650. In fact, as further evidence of California’s high housing prices and affordability problems, the state’s mortgage debt alone surpassed the total debt national average (and the total debt of all other states presented except New Jersey), with a per capita burden of $53,250.”
“This expansion in debt ‘is more of an intended feature than a flaw of the Fed’s monetary policy since the housing bubble popped,’ Mises Institute fellow Jonathan Newman maintained in a post after the New York Fed’s previous quarterly report. ‘Expansionary monetary policy can only replace bubbles with new bubbles. Malinvestments are not totally liquidated, but shift from one sector to another. Consumer debt is not directly paid off, but transferred from one type to another. The redirection is mostly guided by new government interference in markets.’”
“The easy money and credit expansion party can only last so long, as we rudely discovered just a decade ago. With the increase in household debt, people pouring money into stocks that are at record highs and the national debt now up to about $20 trillion, it seems we still haven’t learned this lesson.”
‘Vancouver and Toronto have ‘very, very strong fundamentals’ supporting prices including immigration, strong job creation, strong income gains and high wealth, he said.’
‘After holding on to their rapidly appreciating asset for so long, some sellers in the Greater Toronto Area appear to be rushing headlong to cash in. Buyers who lamented that there were so few listings now seem incapacitated by the amount of choice. ‘I think they’re overwhelmed – there are so many houses to look at’
Oh dear…
Like lemmings rushing from outcropping to outcropping considering the best vantage point for plunging into the sea.
Canada’s ,like $49 oil?
A lefty pm ?
I have yet to see any evidence that Canadian incomes support house prices. In fact, they are in debt up to their eyeballs.
“Canadian government officials delivered a vote of confidence in the country’s housing sector and banking system, telling lawmakers that Vancouver and Toronto’s real estate markets are supported by fundamentals that leave risks well-contained.”
“The GSEs are adequately capitalized.” —Bernanke, to House Financial Services Committee.
“There is still no consensus on why the last housing boom and bust happened. That is troubling, because that violent housing cycle helped to produce the Great Recession and financial crisis of 2007 to 2009.
No, Mr. Shiller, the facts are quite clear on what caused the events you cite. However, our corporate media outlets, especially the NYT, would never allow their stenographers, aka “real journalists,” to speak truth to power. Recall the scene from “The Big Short” where the protagonists go to a Real Journalist at the Wall Street Journal with incontrovertible evidence of a housing bubble on the verge of bursting, only to be told by the panicked corporate toadie that submitting such a story would cost him his job.
If you want real news and real truth, look to blogs like this, not the MSM.
Shiller’s piece is in the UpShot section of NYT - that’s a new/analysis/opinion area, duh! It’s not supposed to be factually accurate if it is Shiller stating Shiller’s opinion. That sad scribing journalist do comes into play in the news section when they shamelessly repeat politician’s lies without including counter facts or simply facts (not opinion) to give context to what politicians say (lie about).
You should familiarize yourself with how an actual newspaper and its sections work.
NYT has published news articles describing the cause of why the housing bust happened - many factors. so I also thought it was really, really strange of him to say we don’t know what started the bust - didn’t like the article. Wish he’d been more exact in what he meant by that - because we ALL surely have ideas about what contributed to the bust. Maybe we don’t know which straw broke the camel’s back - there was a lot of “straw” flying around at that time. NYT has been strangely quiet on the issue of housing this time ’round. Almost ignoring it.
we don’t know what started the bust ??
Sure we do. It started September 2008. Just look at the numbers the following months and years after that date.
Wrong. Started in late 2003 in some areas. This blog had people on it detailing the top in their zip codes. Starts at the high end and spec condos first, and we’ve already seen that in this bubble for at least 6-12 months.
Wrong. But you go ahead and throw out the BS. That’s what you are good at.
Untwist panties, scdave. The bust might’ve started gathering force in 2007-2008, but as I recall posters in the HBB were calling BS well before the top was in. Maybe Ben can give us the inaugural date of the HBB.
No panties twisted I just know what the F&$@ I am talking about on this. Greenspan opened the spigot after the dot com crash and 9/11. 110% financing, lier loans and bundling these securities all followed. The music stopped in September 2008 when the infomas statement was made “This Sucker Could Go Down”
I believe Ben started the Blog in 2014 or 2015. I think I joined in 15 or 16.
Chit. I hate typing from phone
I believe Ben started in 2004 or 2005
I think I joined in 2005 or 2006
Greenspan = Barnake. Chit.
I recall a residential investment that we made in 2003. Going into that market (inland CA), the price growth of homes was tame (tame enough that we simply assumed inflation type increases in prices in our underwriting).
By the time we hit summer of 2004, prices were raging out of control.
Prices closer to the coast were going up faster than inflation well before 2004.
The SoCal house that we bought in the Spring of 1997 (a short-sale in Belmont Heights) for $290,000.00 was worth around 100K more the very next year and in 2003 we sold it for $800,000.00.
Five years later the couple who bought it from us sold it for 1.2 mil.
We were happy to cash in and flee SoCal but none of this pricing is supported by anything other than fairy FED dust.
“Chit. I hate typing from phone ”
I know how you feel. Combine the small key board with autocorrect and you can have some interesting posts. I think only teenage girls can type on a phone.
“what started the bust…It started September 2008.”
There is a slight but important difference between why and when.
There is a slight but important difference between why and when ??
But if you will read what was posted vs. just wanting to contradict me you will see the question was “When”…Answer; September 2008…
I was trying to be polite dave. Here is what I read:
” Comment by scdave
2017-05-20 12:42:27
we don’t know what started the bust ??
Sure we do. It started September 2008. ”
Perhaps you meant to say “why” the bust started??
Greenspan = Barnake. Chit.
No, you had it right the first time; it was GREENSPAN, who opened the spigots wide open after the dot-com bubble bust and 9/11.
IMO, that was a primary cause of the housing bubble.
Sure we do. It started September 2008. Just look at the numbers the following months and years after that date.
Dave, you are so full of it.
The top different in time for different markets… But check the Case-Shiller data: San Diego was first, in Dec 2005; some markets (including mine) lagged by up to a year. But none were so far behind as you suggest.
You are confusing your recollection of the STOCK market bust (Oct 2008) with the housing bust. Housing had been on its way down for 2-3yrs before the markets realized that the S was going to HTF when the most leveraged lenders started to fail in order of decreasing leverage.
Exactly.
The bust began in south Florida at the end of 2005, not in 2008.
Ben documented it well.
Jack
“There is still no consensus on why the last housing boom and bust happened. That is troubling, because that violent housing cycle helped to produce the Great Recession and financial crisis of 2007 to 2009.
No, Mr. Shiller, the facts are quite clear on what caused the events you cite
/
Go look up the word consensus.
Go look up the word “irrelevant.” Say, that’s a nice picture of you.
Consensus or not, the causes and effects of the housing boom and bust are crystal clear for anyone who cares to look.
Cause and effect are never clear for those living in a mania, only to those observing without participating.
“There is still no consensus on why the last housing boom and bust happened.”
Haha… bet ‘ya Shiller is wearing a belt and suspenders.
From the NYT comments: “It’s very demoralizing to read such deliberately misleading stuff from such a distinguished author. Very powerful interests have worked relentlessly to prevent consensus about why the housing boom and bust happened since the collapse of the debt derivatives casino. This article contributes to that confusion by studiously ignoring the institutionalized fraud that made the MBS and CDS casinos possible. This is an astonishing omission.
In 2005, a banker at WAMU offered me a million dollar liar’s loan, no questions asked. I wasn’t even making 6 figures. I told him he was crazy and walked out. He could do that because WAMU was going to dump that subprime loan into a bundle, wipe out the connection between deed of title and promise to pay using the fraudulent MERS system, use the fraudulent credit rating system to give that garbage security a AAA rating and then sell potentially toxic slices of that fraudulently-created pizza to shadow banking and foreign investors hungry for return. All that fraud was possible because the creators, sellers and buyers of that junk, along with people just standing around the casino watching all the fraud, were allowed to buy and sell insurance against collapse of those toxic securities in the form of credit default swaps without having to maintain the capital reserves to pay off those swaps should default occur. That was the biggest fraud. Flippers did not cause the housing boom and bust. Fraud by lenders, enabled by legislators, did.” —Joe, NY
‘Flippers did not cause the housing boom and bust. Fraud by lenders, enabled by legislators, did’
Yet these exact conditions don’t exist in Vietnam, Cambodia, Dubai or Lagos, just to name a few. There are bubbles in these places right now. This is the shaky argument that was put in place by the PTB as they recreated the conditions for the mania. As a result we’re right back to high prices good, lower prices bad. OK, now it’s a “crisis” here and unaffordable there. Just where did all this get us and what did we learn? If ridiculously high house prices could be sustained it would never have collapsed in the first place.
There were countless postmortems written about the housing bubble, prior to the “subprime/lender fraud caused it all” nonsense came up. The common theme I remember was, we shouldn’t look at houses as investments. Turn on a TV. Do flipping shows reflect a public that has embraced get rich quick via houses?
I’m not that interested in the blame game. IMO the question should be, how should the prices of these things, and the related financing if any, be obtained? The market is most efficient. A true market goes without props and unnecessary subsidies. A true market is one where risk takers actually bear the consequences of those risks. A true market would include a system where the cost of money, interest rates, is also set by a market.
Seems like a true market also requires accounting that takes into account the true value of assets when determining solvency. And insolvency to be allowed to fail.
What always amazes me is that 9-10 years later we are still performing the autopsy on the dead body known as the 2008 housing crash. Meanwhile a fresh murder is happening right before our eyes and nobody cares.
When this next crash happens you can place a bet that some realtor will spout the famous line of “Well, no one saw this coming”. Actually, plenty of people saw it, you just didn’t want to hear it.
It’s the same crime.
When is the next housing crash? Will prices fall to 2011-12 levels?
So, after what is probably a 10 year hiatus from this blog - I’ve returned - no longer a “newbie.”
SD has just posted it’s highest ever median home price - still a “bit” cheaper than the prior peak in inflation adjusted dollars.
Salaries haven’t improved that much in the past 10 years, but I’ve seen literal van loads of foreign investors visiting new developments in SD.
I suspect it’s money fleeing Asia - and Vancouver has gotten too expensive / restrictive.
It’s smelling like 2005-2007 all over again.
We have to keep in mind there are some real differences between 2017 and 2005-2007.
Low tier prices, not inflation adjusted appear to be beyond peak bubble prices in most SD neighborhoods.
Toxic loans still seem down and unless lenders are cheating Debt to Income ratios are putting a very real cap on prices.
So the narrative that makes most sense to me right now is. We have seen artificially low inventory due to lack of building and people who bought homes at peak prices who have managed to modify their loans and hold out for price rebounds. Some of them are finaly selling but many still don’t have the equity to trade up so they stay put and thus we have few resale homes.
Because of debt to income ratio lockouts on loans the driving force behind high prices is the low cost of ownership. This clearly creates risk for buyers who want a starter home they can trade up later. Can we really expect home value approximation like the past 30 years if interest rates slowly cream up for the next decade. Could we stay low indefinitly?
The real question to me is will banks be forced to raise lending rates. Because if they are they stand a good chance of pulling down home values and revealing any flaws in their bad loan can kicking.
Does this add up to a bubble? Possibly. But the culprit thus far would not be bad lending though that can still change. Maybe it would be loan modifications and interest rate manipulation.
“One thing is clear: The prevalent narratives of 1997 to 2005 did not include the concept of a housing bubble, not at first. A computer search using ProQuest or Google Ngrams shows that the phrase ‘housing bubble’ was hardly used until 2005, the end of the boom.
This is because no Real Journalist, even if they had the integrity and intellectual capacity to see a housing bubble was afoot, would ever dare submit such an article to their editor. However, if memory serves, around 2007 - maybe earlier - an intrepid band of free-thinkers on an obscure little gem of a blog called Ben Jones’ Housing Bubble Blog were giving full vent to their incredulousness and scorn over the schemes and scams of the REIC and the utter unsustainably of the housing bubble that the lemmings were rushing into to “buy now or be priced out forever.”
And now, as history is once again getting ready to repeat itself, the MSM’s journalistic Omertà regarding the Fed’s asset bubbles and Ponzi markets is once again on display for all to see.
FBI warns on epidemic of fraud 2004
https://www.creditwritedowns.com/2013/07/housing-appraisers-warnings-fraud-crisis.html
Interesting video about flipping in San Diego. You know things are out of whack when Clairemont is high end and theyre doing deals in Encanto (dont get caught after dark, some bad hombres there). Especially liked the part at the end where owner/occupiers are selling and leaving the state.
Cali? Sold to you (sucka)!
Busloads of investors in North County San Diego . . . .
Whoops, forgot the SD flipper video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMaI_fpT-CA
Among a selection of 11 states, including the most populous states, California had the highest debt balance per capita of $68,460, nearly 44 percent higher than the national average of $47,650
The difference in per capita debt is far above the positive difference in per capita income compared to the rest of the US. Of course, when you spend money you boost an economy whether that money was borrowed or earned. However, eventually you have to spend less than you earn to pay back that borrowed money. That is the b*tch of a debt economy and California is exhibit A. Ironically, the per capita debt would be even higher if it were not for the recent arrived illegal aliens, who come here with nothing but nothing is more than $68,460 more than many native Californians have.
Exhibit A?
Yesterday we discussed China Urban household debt >100 % income. 100 city index housing 14x income. That will leave a crater much larger than our poorest state of California.
Ordinarily this would be alarming, but we have ABQ Dan’s soothing assurances that this, somehow, is more evidence of the strength of China’s inexorable economic expansion under the benevolent machinations of its wise and omniscient central planners.
Around 50 percent savings rate is the key difference that one fact is the major reason you are so wrong about china. For second homes people are putting down 60 percent totally different from here
“It’s different here.”
“It’s different this time.”
I see it so clearly now.
“Yesterday we discussed China Urban household debt >100 % income. 100 city index housing 14x income.”
“Around 50 percent savings rate is the key difference that one fact is the major reason you are so wrong about china.”
LMFAO. Really, Dan?
If you do not see how high savings rate matter and how having lots of skin in the game matter then I am LMFAO.
Dan - Not trying to be contradictory, but didn’t the article above say the Chinese buyers couldn’t close on their Australian apartment cause they couldn’t come up with anything other than then 10% they already put down?
Dan don’t respond to irrefutable evidence the Chinese are dumb, gambling fools. BTW it’s the desk clearing post that contains that fact.
The article was not about the fact the Chinese did not have any money it was about the fact the Chinese government was restricting their ability to move the money out of the country.
Speaking of the Chinese they are coming to Flagstaff:
http://azdailysun.com/news/local/new-hotel-coming-to-flagstaff-airport/article_96f3fd81-cb2c-5e36-ad4e-661f2ea27adb.html#utm_source=azdailysun.com&utm_campaign=%2Femail-updates%2Fbreaking%2F&utm_medium=email&utm_content=C8DA12C468525EEF76B06DA5867281823EF2852D
The stresses in China’s financial system are getting harder and harder to hide or explain away.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-19/chanos-says-more-stresses-apparent-at-loaned-up-chinese-banks
“50 percent savings rate…”
Is that all? You should be able to save more than that when you are borrowing more than you earn in a year. With housing only 14x income, you should have piles of cash lying everywhere.
There is a riddle in this. It rhymes with Housing Bubble.
Um…crow trouble?
We will accept that answer.
The real houses in Vancouver are for the Chinese “investors” the Canadians get this:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-05/21/c_136302356.htm
What the stat for our state?
Not me why pick a name so close to confuse people?
Hey you’re not me, why pick a name so close to confuse people?
Sorry — I was sorta joking around. Nice to see another NM person with the same first name.
Ok that is fine but it would have created too much confusion
Bad form, ABQ Dan. The HBB already has an ABQ Dan. Pick another name, por favor.
Debts don’t matter. Debt is money.
They were interested in the location and the property, she says, but they became wary when there wasn’t a bidding frenzy.
Lemmings turning wary?
Oh my.
What happens when the supply of Greater Fools suddenly dries up entirely?
There will be a great disturbance in the force, as if a million FBs screamed out at once and were suddenly silenced.
yeah, bout time ya came outta that side alley with Hank and Boomhauer and Dale drinkin suds & wrote some more of this-here column, daggumit!
Are you talking to me?
Vancouver and Toronto have ‘very, very strong fundamentals’ supporting prices including immigration, strong job creation, strong income gains and high wealth, he said.”
What happens when the supply of Chinese embezzlers and money launderers dries up?
“Fear has very large eyes.” — Russian proverb
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2095017/late-night-social-media-post-chinese-state-lender-underscores
Put another crow on the barbie, ABQ Dan.
““Financial deleveraging will continue in the coming months, but restricted by the policy consideration that it should not trigger financial distress or jeopardise the growth outlook.”
Careful boys, you’re way out on a fragile limb.
Too bad, Jim the realtor was a harbinger of truth during the last crash. Sad to see that he, and his dumb-ass flipper friends and family, have fully embraced this latest rape of America with such enthusiasm.
Throw a few bucks in front of Jimbo and he exposes himself as just another POS realtor.
Let’s take a trip down memory lane, shall we? Back to the halcyon days of 2005-2006 when “buy now or be priced out forever!” caused millions of credulous FBs to rush lemming-like into their own personal financial Waterloo.
Century 21 captured the mass psychosis with the most unintentionally honest ad of all time, wherein TV’s nastiest wife with her galactic sense of entitlement and supremely misplaced faith in Suzanne the Realtor’s judiciary duty hectors her henpecked husband into making the second worst decision of his life, after marrying her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20n-cD8ERgs
The dude really got housed.
Just to be fair… what would you guys say if it were the man who wanted the house and the wife who didn’t? In the 1950s-60s, there wouldn’t even be this conversation. Hubby would come home from work and say “Guess what Honey, we’re buying this house.” The wife wouldn’t dare to put up even a weak fight.
Even in this Suzanne commercial, what if the woman were the primary breadwinner? Would she be as scorned?
n the 1950s-60s, there wouldn’t even be this conversation. Hubby would come home from work and say “Guess what Honey, we’re buying this house.” The wife wouldn’t dare to put up even a weak fight.
Oxide, you say that like it’s a BAD thing….
” In the 1950s-60s…”
Good Lord Oxy. You’ve got some strange perceptions of a time you weren’t alive.
The women in my family had spent several years running everything at home while the men were off in WWII. Everything. They were not the voiceless slaves you imagine.
The matriarchy ruled also in 1960, and in 1950.
Just to be fair… what would you guys say if it were the man who wanted the house and the wife who didn’t?
My original response didn’t get posted, Oxide, but I’ll try again. No spouse, male or female, should ever treat their partner with such an egregious lack of respect and consideration. I would never make such a huge financial commitment unless my wife was fully on board, with no undue pressure from either one of us.
Hey donk.
The corporate media purveyors of The Narrative assure us not to be concerned by Dotcom Bubble 2.0 because “this time it’s different.”
Where have I heard that before?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/05/15/dotcom-bubble-time-really-different/
The voyeurpreneurs of silly valley have ruined the internet. You’ve been warned.
Got that right. Wait until the dang thing shuts down good and solid and they can’t get it functioning again, then you’ll see some taradiddle.
Don’t forget, Barry Bams gave it away to the UN. Whassup widdat?
Today on the radio I heard that Uber is facing several court cases, including one on Europe. The courts are determining whether Uber is a transport/taxi company, or whether Uber is a technology company which connects willing passengers to drivers. The eventual ruling will probably make-or-break at least some of silly valley.
‘Sometimes I think people are pulling these numbers out of dark places.’
Lol, McCabe, you’re being way too polite. Those dark places tend to be rather smelly, too. Like Smelly Mel.
In 2005 I found a (now archived) web blog called “housing panic” which predicted the crash so far in advance that everyone thought I was nuts bringing up the subject:
http://housingpanic.blogspot.com/
For those wanting to keep their ear to the ground, the “Dr Housing Bubble” web blog also has a recurring segment called “Real Homes of Genius” that highlights the comically overpriced housing market in California.
For example, this “dream home” which is 378 square feet (not a typo), going for the popular price of $179,000 USD.
http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/compton-california-or-detroit-smallest-home-in-los-angeles/
FYI…. I enjoy this blog. You’re one of the few people who are out ahead of the curve on the future Canadian implosion.
That first link was run by a certifiable nut job. I know, I used to get deranged, threatening emails from that A-hole.
Small world, I guess.
“intrepid band of free thinkers”
wow! been called a lot of things but that phrase just warms me up so much . . . just might buy another Gadsden flag decal!
Thanks for mentioning my neck of the woods. I think people do not realize that some sales close months after the paperwork was started giving the market an appearance of resilience. We have now entered the bullshit phase of the market where everyone runs to the podium to announce how perfect everything really is, and how much smarter Canadians are, and how everything is just super duper…
Please check out the new documentary “Vancouver:No Fixed Address”.
Hoping to see it on the east coast but may be a while unless I can stream it.
Vancouver: No Fixed Address — Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2dCUGnBT7k
Oh dear. The unbridled greed that has gripped “the markets” since 2008 and gave us Housing Bubble 2.0, is starting to turn to fear.
I can almost, but not quite, pity the FBs who ran up home prices to such insane, unsustainable levels using ultra-easy credit, and who will soon face the horrific prospect (for over-leveraged debt donkeys) of true price discovery. And this time around the Fed, having lavished $14 trillion on its oligarch cronies, has no ammunition left to defer the financial reckoning day.
Got popcorn?
https://www.bloombergquint.com/opinion/2017/05/19/the-housing-moment-investors-dread-is-here
You don’t seem to like much of anybody, do ya Ray? Not the 1%, and not the 99% either. It’s either rich evil banksters or the masses of FBs.
I like people who are trying to make their way in this life honestly, productively, and without damaging others. No matter what their race, gender, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, or whatever. That’s a pretty sizable contingent of people.
I don’t dislike the “1%” and rarely use that term, since it includes a lot of highly successful people, like doctors, entrepreneurs, or inventors, who achieved success by virtue of being smarter and harder working than most people. I respect such people. I don’t respect corrupt and venal elites who rig the game in their favor, or those who enable them.
What’s to stop the Fed from running its next hare-brained experiment with O.P.M? And when do they know when a monetary experiment has worked or not?
Just because monetary policy can damage an economy, the opposite is not true - it cannot cause economy to actually create wealth. If that opposite were true, Haiti could be turned into a world economic powerhouse with some deft policy, like Singapore.
The Fed’s attitude seems to be that because a man has the power to kill another man, then the opposite, that he also has the power resurrect said man, must also be true.
The Fed doesn’t do “experiments” IMO. Their job is to collect the taxes for the Lords of the Land. They do this by issuing currency at interest. No matter if the interest is low and the volume is high. It’s a gigantic wealth transfer. Any posturing that they are trying to accomplish anything else is ridiculous.
You can’t stop what’s coming
Venezuela anti-government unrest marks 50th day with huge marches
Reuters
By Deisy Buitrago and Anggy Polanco
Reuters
May 20, 2017
CARACAS/SAN CRISTOBAL, Venezuela (Reuters) - Hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans took to the streets on Saturday to mark 50 days of protests against the unpopular government of President Nicolas Maduro, with unrest gaining momentum despite a rising death toll and chaotic scenes of nighttime looting.
At least 46 people have been killed in the worst turmoil faced by Maduro since he won the presidency in 2013. Venezuelans from civilians to police have been killed, sometimes during increasingly frequent spates of looting or street melees.
I ran across this on the net …
North Korean hackers are scarier that North Korean nukes.
http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-north-korean-hackers-hackers-kim-jong-un-nuclear-north-korea-612756
China’s housing bubble has slowed in some areas, but it others the mania is stronger than ever.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2095054/welcome-jiaxing-where-chinas-red-hot-property-market-has-come
Going to check out an open house today in a neighborhood we like.
4bed/3.5 Bath/2160SqFt in No.Virginia
Last sold June 2005: $625,500
Listing Price: $525,000
But at least they can paint the walls any color!!!
“Listing Price: $525,000″
That’s some pretty tall cotton… especially if it’s trending down.
Its back……..2017 style
Unicorn Horn Store Opening in Park Slope Will Help Customers ‘Feel Magical’
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170421/park-slope/unicorn-horn-store-brooklyn-owl
Why not 2 more in hot hot hot park slope…..homes are flying off the shelves
Rainbow Bagel Store Coming to Park Slope
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170411/park-slope/rainbow-bagels-park-slope-williamsburg
Waffle Shop Born at Vermont Ski Resorts Coming to Park Slope
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170425/park-slope/liege-waffles
you just cant stop the insanity
MAP: Who Owns All the Property Along the Gowanus Canal
Investors have poured at least $440 million into buying land on the polluted waterway and more than a third of the properties have changed hands in the past decade,
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170512/gowanus/gowanus-canal-real-estate-property-markets-group-kushner-forest-city-alloy-rezoning
Those listings were special.
Suzanne’s research verified this.
They’re not building land along polluted waterways anymore.
Buy now or be priced out forever.
Home ownership cut in half among younger generations over the past 20 years due to the housing bubble.
Heckova job, central bankers.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-4522856/Home-ownership-young-families-halves-20-years.html
here is a new idea,
You Can Live In An Old NYPD Gymnasium For $18.5M
http://gothamist.com/2017/05/16/nypd_hq_apartment.php#photo-1
Yes, I could also retire to anyplace I would reasonable want on that much money; I, my kids, and any grandchildren in the future.
$18.5M. Bet it still smells of sweaty gym socks and worse.
Regards,
Roidy