July 7, 2006

Post Weekend Topic Suggestions Here

Please post weekend topic suggestions here! Don’t forget to send in housing bubble pictures to:

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90 Comments »

Comment by skip
2006-07-07 04:22:18

Did anyone read Scott Burns column advising not to refinance an I/O loan?
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/scottburns/columns/2006/stories/0707dnbusBurns.17a2151.html

Are there times when you shouldn’t?

Comment by Spunkmeyer
2006-07-07 04:27:17

Wow - I would completely discount every other bit of advice the person says given their response to that question.

Comment by OlBubba
2006-07-07 06:59:21

Spunkmeyer-

Did you go to the link and read the entire question and response? If you did, then go back and read it again. If you didn’t read the entire question and response, then your comment was a bit hasty.

 
 
Comment by Joe
2006-07-07 04:41:10

Actually, his repsonse seems fairly thought out.

Comment by Moopheus
2006-07-07 06:04:59

He takes into account the fact that these folks are actually doing the sensible thing and making payments on the principle. So refinancing may not really help them until the loan resets. If they were only paying the interest and facing a big cost increase they couldn’t afford, refinancing might still not help them, but for different reasons.

 
 
Comment by boulderbo
2006-07-07 06:33:04

i regularly get that scenario from my existing clientele. i advise them to do the same thing, don’t go from 4.875% to 6.875% if you have two or three years left. the bond market is telling us that fixed rates aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.

Comment by nnvmtgbrkr
2006-07-07 09:01:44

Agreed. Rates aren’t the “panic issue” here, prices are.

 
 
Comment by Chip
2006-07-07 08:08:11

I agree that Burns answered the question well — he spelled out the risks and rewards. But, drifting OT, in the following question about a pension, he based his reply on very insufficient information, unless it was given and not printed — there’s no clue if the $1,800/mo is present value or future value, no date given at which it can begin, nor any indication whether there is a COLA clause attached to the annuity. Without knowing those, I would never venture an opinion about the relative value of an apparently immediate lump-sum.

 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2006-07-07 10:26:34

Robert Campbell made the argument that in a year or two or three interest rates will go down due to the hard recession we are about to have. He didn’t see long term rates staying low but a short term opportunity (if a recession gets bad enough) where the Feds do an emergency lowering of the rates trying to restimulate the economy. If a recession is bad enough - and most of us think we are headed for a bad one - this makes sense. That would be the time to refinance.

Agreements? Disagreement? Discussions tonight over margaritas? :)

Comment by jmf
2006-07-09 03:02:53

hello from germany,

the fed faces than the problem that the us$ is going to tank.
itv will be the key question in the next 2-3 years if the fed
allows a recession that is needed. the longer this frenzy goes the uglier ist will get for the us economy. the recession should have benn taken 2000 and 2001. now the us and the world faces big big problems.

 
 
 
Comment by Spunkmeyer
2006-07-07 04:29:15

Anybody besides me doing any home improvement projects right now? I’m finding contractors are actually returning phone calls now… a huge change from only a few months ago.

Comment by scdave
2006-07-07 06:05:57

Definite winds of change in the air……

 
Comment by michael
2006-07-07 06:21:46

I remember the downturn in the early 1990s and managed to get contractors in to fix various things with too much scheduling difficulty. In the late 1990s, I’d set up an appointment, wait at home and they’d blow me off. I’d call and then we’d reschedule and same deal. After three of these, I gave up on the contractor. Apparently they had so much good business that they didn’t need or want side business which is important to have in lean times.

 
Comment by M.B.A.
2006-07-07 06:31:15

they may be returning calls, but try to get them to show up - still an issue.

 
Comment by Upstater
2006-07-07 06:34:01

When we had wood flooring installed in February, the company was VERY available. They shared with us that in 2005 their schedule was full for February school vacation week. Can only imagine what they’re looking at now.

 
 
Comment by arlingtonva
2006-07-07 04:32:09

Reasons we may NOT experience an Armageddon in the stock market
* The richest 10% of the population own 90% of stocks.
* Only a small percentage of the population bought into the bubble in 2004 and 2005; few FB’s will experience serious financial stress.
* China and India and other markets are opening up new opportunities for American business.
* The internet can make us much more productive

I could be wrong..just some thoughts

Comment by edhopper
2006-07-07 06:09:21

There is a lot of evidence that the majority of GDP growth in the last 4 years is due to housing. As housing falls it remains to be seen how big an impact it will have on the economy.
Even that top 10% won’t own stock in companies without earnings growth.

 
Comment by scdave
2006-07-07 06:10:09

The richest 10% of the population own 90% of stocks

And, the the top 2% probably own 90% of that which is precisley why I do not own any stock even though I watch the markets on a daily basis…I don’t feel like playing poker when the cards are stacked against me….

Comment by Housing Wizard
2006-07-07 06:19:25

My same take Mr. scdave . I don’t like trying to figure out what moves “they” are going to make .

 
 
Comment by arroyogrande
2006-07-07 07:48:02

* Only a small percentage of the population bought into the bubble in 2004 and 2005; few FB’s will experience serious financial stress.

My personal experience is that there is a lot of financial stress caused by people using their houses as ATMs, doing “equity liberation” to buy boats, cars, granite counter tops, vacations, and, yes, I’ll say it again, boob jobs. With housing prices flattening out, there is no more equity to liberate. So now the people that were living way beyond their means have to cut waaaayyyyy back. Some won’t cut back (old habits die hard), and will face financial hardship (foreclosure, bk). Others will cut back, which will (already has?) reduce demand for consumer products.

An added wrinkle is that some statistics show that RE related industries (realtors, appraisers, loan officers, construction workers, etc.) have generated a good portion of current job growth…what happens when the real estate market cools down (as it already is starting to do)? End result, less disposable income for consumer goods.

I may be riding the stock market too far, but I’m definitely out after the November election…

Comment by NH_renter
2006-07-07 08:57:45

Boob jobs… now that’s a form of equity extraction that I can appreciate

 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2006-07-07 10:32:04

Boob jobs - misuse of equity “liberation” or a true investment? :) Looking at trophy wives anymore it does seem like they have a pretty good ROI.

LOL but maybe I am a bitter acheiver as well as a bitter renter since I have to depend on my brains more than my body? :P

 
 
 
Comment by simmssays
2006-07-07 04:39:24

I think it would be interesting to consolidate anecdotal evidence of layoffs and job slowdowns..all in one place.

Simmssays…Foolish Ways We Spoil Our Kids
http://www.AmericanInventorSpot.com

Comment by Upstater
2006-07-07 06:37:36

I would be interested in following layoff numbers too. Not just in the real estate industry but all industry.

 
 
Comment by Larry Littlefield
2006-07-07 04:43:20

Let’s do the math.

1) What should a house be worth in your neighborhood, based on rent levels, operating costs, and the capitalization of net income at the mortgage rate?

2) And what have houses recently sold for.

Based on some optimistic assumptions I came up with $540,000 for income-based value. But in January a house sold for $1 million.

Now, as mentioned, home buyers lock in their housing costs, while rents eventually rise. There are also tax considerations. Therefore, I think owner-occupants should be willing to pay somewhat more than current income value. But not that much more. I put the correction here at at least 1/3 off.

Comment by eastcoaster
2006-07-07 06:02:15

With average hourly wages being $16.70, I’d like to know how many people could really afford a home anywhere near $540,000? I sure as heck couldn’t. How about a topic on the chances we’ll ever see reasonable home prices for the average Joe - not just for those in the upper class?

http://tinyurl.com/kula8
Workers’ average hourly earnings jumped to $16.70 in June, a sharp 0.5 percent increase from May. Economists were expecting a more modest rise of 0.3 percent. For the last 12 months, wages have gone up by 3.9 percent, the largest annual increase since June 2001.

 
Comment by edhopper
2006-07-07 06:14:14

In my neighborhood in Queens NY, single family homes are $600,000 to $700,000. Looking at the economic fundementals that is about 50% overpriced.

 
Comment by scdave
2006-07-07 06:15:26

I understand the theroy but (for me) I did not give a rats ass what my home would rent for when I purchased it…

 
 
Comment by Mort
2006-07-07 05:00:24

How about a sliding scale of terms for cities’ bubblocity? Red hot boiling over (I don’t think there are any of those left) down to officially toast. Toast - Detroit, Indianapolis. Death warmed over - Denver. Still flopping road kill - Phoenix. Help me out here.

Comment by Mort
2006-07-07 05:01:39

One more, simmering on the back burner - Seattle.

Comment by Lake Hills Renter
2006-07-07 09:20:19

Unfortunately this seems to be true. The Seattle housing market is just starting to show the signs the rest of the country has been showing for almost a year.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2006-07-07 06:44:04

Meltdown ???

 
 
Comment by Ken
2006-07-07 05:01:03

So much of the focus on weather there is or isn’t a bubble is the speculation on the future of the large homebuilders (Pulte, KB, Toll Bros etc…) but it seems to me that the bulk of the inflation in housing (at least in the Chicago area where I’m at) is due to the glut of condos which the homebuilders have nothing to do with. So my question is, am I off in my assessment that condo developers have more to do with this boom, as a whole nationally, than homebuilders? How do we track the health of those developers? Who are the largests national and regional developers?

 
Comment by M.B.A.
2006-07-07 05:03:13

How about a little weekend fun:

translate (a dictionary) all the abbreviations used on this site, e.g. - BK - is NOT Burger King!

Comment by buddhaman
2006-07-07 06:14:13

that would be funny - i have been having fun explaining all the bubble blog terminology to my family, there really is a whole new lexicology.

 
Comment by Peter
2006-07-07 06:30:39

Yes, that would be helpful and instructive. I needed to read the explanation of GF two times to not read girlfriend anymore.

 
Comment by Sunsetbeachguy
2006-07-07 06:33:21

GF - always throws me Greater Fool
FB - F@cked Borrower
RE - Real Estate
PITI - Principal Interest Taxes Insurance
My favorite humorous ones:
MIRAGE

 
Comment by Mort
2006-07-07 07:14:07

BK - bankrupcy
ARM - adjustable rate mortgage
HELOC - home equity line of credit
FB - f%cked buyer/borrower
HOA - homeowner assn. fee?

 
Comment by ajh
2006-07-07 07:39:25

MEW - Mortgage Equity Withdrawal
NAAVLP - Negative Amortisation Anal-Voodoo Loan Product (hat tip to Surfer-X on patrick.net :D)

 
Comment by ajh
2006-07-07 07:55:52

NAR - National Association of Realtors
CAR - California Association of Realtors
DL - David Lereah, chief economist/spokesweasel for NAR
BB - Ben Bernanke, current Fed. chairman
AG - Alan Greenspan, immediate past Fed. chairman
MBA - As well as the obvious, can also mean Mortgage Bankers Association

 
Comment by arroyogrande
2006-07-07 08:09:36

Toxic Loan - Loan with greater risk, usually Interest Only or Option-ARM

I/O - Interest Only loan

Option-ARM - Adjustable Rate Mortgage with several payment options - the option to pay interest+principal, interest only, or a low fixed payment that doesn’t even cover the interest payment (negative amortization loan).

Negative Amortization Loan - a loan where the monthly payments don’t cover the full amount of interest owed. The remaining interest is added back to the principal owed, so in the end, you owe MORE than when you started.

FSBO - For sale by owner.

FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. “Buy now, or be priced out forever”.

“Suzanne researched this” - from the Century 21 TV ad called “The Debate” : http://tinyurl.com/r342l

Flipper -
* Someone who buys a house and immediately tries to sell for a profit.
* Someone who buys a house, fixes it up, and tries to sell for a profit
* Someone who goes under contract to buy a house being built, hoping to sell it for a profit when it’s completed.

 
Comment by Lake Hills Renter
2006-07-07 09:21:59

MSM - Main Stream Media

 
Comment by Mort
2006-07-07 11:59:12

MBS - mortgage backed security

 
 
Comment by salinasron
2006-07-07 05:05:24

How many people are getting emails like this: (Robert Aldana, RE(tm)Santa Cruz):
“Houses are not only holding their value, but actually increasing in value at a much more “normal” rate of appreciation…..It’s all relative when you think about it. We sometimes get spoiled with rates thinking it should always be that way when in reality, it is opportunity knocking and waiting for you to open the door. Buying a property at today’s price and with a good interest rate will have others looking at you tomorrow saying you were lucky to get in the market when you did. But it is not luck, it did not fall in your lap. You sacrificed a little to buy the property today and five years from now you will be realizing the success of your snatching the opportunity. See, luck is preparation meeting opportunity…….If you are a home buyer, you have to be licking your chops today as rates are still pretty darned good if you act right away before they continue to rise. Also, inventory is much more plentiful today than it has been in many years. Sellers are actually selling for asking price or sometimes below asking price. Sellers are paying for closing costs and even doing repairs. Imagine that?!…..
Think about it: the economy is slowly but surely getting better and there are more and more jobs in the area with more and more people moving to this area then are leaving…..The situation is ripe for home buyers. If you come in with a reasonable offer with reasonable terms, you may get that home at a price and terms that are much easier to swallow then yesteryear. Keep your eye on the media. All it will take is for some news publication or story by the media declaring that it is a good time to buy and here we go again!…..So if you are on the fence waiting for prices to come down, you may end up heartbroken next year or two years from now when you are trying to get into the market at higher prices and higher rates which means you will buy less house tomorrow then you can buy today. It never fails…..You should be thinking long term because even though prices get a little flat, if you hold on to that property for a few years you will realize appreciation that will have you looking back saying, “Wow, am I glad I bought when I bought!” I have YET to meet someone who bought and looked back years later saying they wish they hadn’t. Provided of course that they could afford to buy in the first place because I always say, buy what you can afford to buy. But as my twentieth year has passed, I personally have not sold a home to anyone who regretted it. And that is a lot of homes!”

This from a Realtor(tm) who has both tv and radio show in the SJ-SC area.

Comment by Former Saratoga CA homeowner
2006-07-07 05:27:47

This is the worst blathering yet.

My favorite quote:
“the economy is slowly but surely getting better”

My favorite word:
“yesteryear” (applied to 1-3 years ago)

Comment by nnvmtgbrkr
2006-07-07 09:15:45

Gauranteed Robert doesn’t believe a word of the crap he’s spewing. He’s just wringing the wet towel that one extra twist to make sure he gleens every last FB out of his market. All it takes is a complete absence of conscience and disregard of ethics and you too can take advantage of a RE market gasping it’s last dying breath. Realtors understand this is a game played on emotion, and the good ones (actually, good is the wrong word here. I meant the sucessful ones) know how to work it like maestros.

Good job Robert! I hope money can offset a wasted conscience.

 
 
Comment by John Fontain
2006-07-07 08:21:23

The typical disregard by realtors of the interplay between rates and price on monthly payments - as if prices just can’t fall when rates rise (even though prices rose when rates fell). Somebody keep note of this and lets track down this same realtor 5 years from now for comment.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2006-07-07 05:57:01

Is Ben Bernanke’s Fed in the process of slowly strangling the conundrum? And if so, what are the implications for the housing bubble?

A front-page WSJ article today offers many hints:

“Investment Pros Are Losing Their Appetite for Risk”

Among the sectors mentioned which fund managers are avoiding are consumer stocks (”Consumers have pretty much tapped out of their home equity, and that cash register has shown signs of going silent”) and “volatile and increasingly speculative investments that until recently had been soaring — gold, industrial commodities, real estate as well as small stocks and many developing-country stocks.”

My hunch: Ben Bernanke’s “slip of the tongue” to Maria Bartiromo will, in historical retrospect, be seen as the signal that he was serious about defending the dollar and wringing out speculative excesses.

Comment by lalaland
2006-07-07 07:29:20

The WSJ article is telling, and I think gives major circumstantial clues about the rate at which the housing bubble will deflate. And I hope your hunch is right about the Fed. Bernanke does seem to be taking the right steps to defend the dollar, tamp down inflation, etc. My fear though is that the Fed will ultimately inflate their way out of debt. They certainly have the motive and the means…I guess my flip-side question to yours would be: Why wouldn’t the Fed inflate their way out of debt? (I can think of several legitimate answers to this, of course, but the fear remains…)

Comment by Getstucco
2006-07-07 11:49:26

“Why wouldn’t the Fed inflate their way out of debt?”

- Risk of dollar devaluation

- Loss of credit-worthiness in international debt markets

- Higher long-term interest rates and severe case of stagflation

- Increase in cost of imports, which comprise a far greater share of consumption than back in the 1970s

 
 
 
Comment by OC_Stomp
2006-07-07 06:02:44

I really want a thread devoted to how people are taking the fight to the Realtors (TM). I myself make sure I email every crackpot that I see either increasing asking prices afters days/months on the market or those that chase the market down with $1,000 decreases on $1MM homes. What are others doing?

Comment by M.B.A.
2006-07-07 06:26:21

I applaud your committment. I wish I had the time to taunt them (sounds like fun) but I do not…..

Comment by AnonyRuss
2006-07-07 07:05:48

One reduced (but still overpriced) house listing in the Phoenix area said that any potential buyer should get their offers in by the end of a recent weekend, but advised them not to make any lowball offers because there were several standing offers just below asking price.
Flash forward another week later, the price was reduced by another 10% and the lines about other offers had been deleted. I e-mailed the listing agent and asked him why he did not simply accept one of the standing offers rather than drop the list price by tens of thousands of dollars. No response, of course, but it felt nice to call the fraud artist on his lies. The house remains unsold.

 
 
Comment by homoaner
2006-07-07 08:06:22

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. So if your aim is to persuade them that their approach is unwise, I hope you come across as being on their side, and being concerned about their efforts to sell. Opposition (taunts) only increases determination.

Comment by arroyogrande
2006-07-07 08:16:36

I don’t think the intent is to foster capitulation; I think the intent is the same as poking at an anthill with a stick - to watch all of them run around in a panic afterwards.

Comment by nnvmtgbrkr
2006-07-07 09:25:35

Your a sadistic SOB…….in the words of Jim Carey, “I like it, I like it a lot”

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2006-07-07 10:38:32

Oh God. I just pictured a movie with Jim Carey as a Realtor in the last hey days of the bubble (like now) frantically drumming up business. Of course, the movie won’t be out for 5 years but maybe we should start writing it? :)

 
 
 
Comment by OC_Stomp
2006-07-07 11:04:40

Indeed you do. I don’t think I come off as rude, but rather confused. As in ‘I see your listing has been on the market for three months and you just INCREASED the price by $5,000. Can you help me understand that?’.

Once they inevitably drop again I send them a congratulatory e-mail on moving the price in the right direction and wish them luck selling ;-)

 
Comment by Sunsetbeachguy
2006-07-07 17:01:52

I disagree, the most devastating is to persuade initially and draw them in.

Then unleash the dogs of hell.

Won’t make many friends but is mildly entertaining.

 
 
 
Comment by edhopper
2006-07-07 06:22:21

An observation: All of the growth in the last 5 years has been driven by debt. We’ve had anemic job growth, no real wage gains, a government going more and more into the red qnd consumers with all time debt and no savings. A housing boom based on loose, unregulated, exotic loans. Which has been responsible for most of the growth in GDP.
So if (or when) we hit a real debt crisis, how much of a sh*t storm will we be in?

Comment by scdave
2006-07-07 06:33:11

So if (or when) we hit a real debt crisis, how much of a sh*t storm will we be in?

We already have a debt crisis my friend….It has not reared its ugly head because Joe Shmoe has been able to service it….Watch the jobs data….And, anecdotal evidence of deterioration like being able to get a electrician the same day you call…

Comment by nnvmtgbrkr
2006-07-07 09:30:28

Agreed. Edhopper, read some Bonner this weekend. here’s a link. http://www.lewrockwell.com/bonner/bonner-arch.html
If you really want to go for it, read his book “Empire of Debt”.

 
 
Comment by M.B.A.
2006-07-07 06:36:59

At my company, it is people working many more hours and shutting their traps for fear of losing their jobs. It is a productivity gain at my company. So they cut positions, reduce SG&A, icrease our stock price (give us anemic 2-3% increases) and give large bonuses to Sr. Mgmt.

The problem is that this increased productivity is all a sham, people are quietly taking back their time on the sly - getting “smart” about it, if you will…. And the negativity and bitching about “all the work” they must do is getting on my last nerve.

Comment by scdave
2006-07-07 06:48:45

Interesting insite MBA;….People are busy here with plenty of work but don’t appear to be very happy…..

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2006-07-07 06:56:21

At my old firm, a top-tier investment bank, very few people actually “worked”, as in produced real output. If they were actually working, there would be real output to go by.

I wish I had one of those “James Bond” spy cameras. Virtually everyone was surfing the web after 5pm.

Productivity, my ass. More like “face time”.

Comment by arroyogrande
2006-07-07 08:18:37

>Productivity, my ass. More like “face time”.

Exactly.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by homoaner
2006-07-07 08:09:16

“The problem is that this increased productivity is all a sham, people are quietly taking back their time on the sly - getting “smart” about it, if you will…”

“Lisa, if you don’t like your job you don’t strike.
You just go in every day and do it really half-assed.
That’s the American way.”
– Homer J. Simpson

 
 
Comment by eastcoaster
2006-07-07 06:41:49

I was wondering along similar lines this morning. Is it really a sure thing that the debt/credit crisis will become a true crisis? All around me I see people buried in debt - yet they keep piling it on without worry. I’ve known people who shrugged it all off by casually filing bankruptcy (before the new laws were in place). I’ve seen people with the attitude of “…you can’t take it with you!…and they can’t come after me for the money once I’m in the grave!…” So if more people have these attitudes than don’t, what’s to put a stop to it all?

 
Comment by Upstater
2006-07-07 06:50:50

I wouldn’t want this to turn into a “political” discussion. Without getting into party stances, what I’m wondering what type of leadership are we looking for as this downturn plays itself out? IE: Full disclosure? A call to conservation? Without bashing those in office, what would you like to see our leaders do?

Comment by Mort
2006-07-07 07:02:23

Our leaders = misnomer.

 
Comment by JoeFromPittsburgh
2006-07-07 08:46:15

I would like to see the dollar return to being on some type of standard, such as gold or silver, instead of it leaving it’s exact value up to people’s imaginations. With some of the prices that people are paying for homes, especially when you tack on what they’ll pay in interest, people here don’t seem to think their money is really valuable at all.

 
 
 
Comment by txchick57
2006-07-07 06:54:06

Small-Cap Recap: What’s Behind Real Estate Cap Rates?
Fil Zucchi
Mar 28, 2006 10:22 am
The commercial real estate game - at least in major cities - has turned into a game of “flipping.”

Prof Zucchi:

My wife’s family is in commercial and residential real estate. Over the past few years, they’ve gone into the market to buy, and ended up selling stuff that her grandfather and father bought. Properties that we thought our childrens’ children would own. They think the cap rates are ridiculous, how can people make money? They know that some of the people that bought their stuff are choking on it. People are putting in money to pay the enormous mortgages that enabled these prices. Now I see Mills (MLS) and GMH Communities Trust (GCT) in the news with accounting problems. Did they borrow too much money at too low floating rates that are now starting to squeeze their margins? Do these real estate companies really have NO earnings? Is this a Microstrategy (MSTR) in the real estate business? Is it really so simple that companies are starting to hide their losses with “Accounting Problems?” Were they ever really profitable at all over the last few years as they went on an acquisition binge?

Love the ‘Ville.

Best Regards
Minyan Lenny

Hi Lenny -

I don’t know GMH Communities at all so I really can’t add much to that story. I have been following Mills Corp. superficially and I think it is fair to say that, in its current incarnation, it is unraveling. They do have some attractive assets, but they also carry $4b of debt against $430M of reported T12 EBITDA. If it turns out that the accounting problems mean that the cash flow is not there, I think you can write the end of the script for current shareholders. I know Vornado (VNO) has been looking at them and so has the Blackstone Group. It’ll be interesting to see if they step in and for how much.

I don’t know if MLS is the real estate equivalent of Microstrategy, but I doubt it. (For those who don’t remember, MSTR’s implosion due to its accounting shenanigans was arguably the catalyst for the bursting of the internet bubble). Most REIT’s do earn real money. But you are correct that they are paying absurd cap rates for properties. Part of the reason is that REIT’s these days don’t see cap rates as meaningful. (For those not familiar with “capitalization rates,” they reflect the expected rate of return on a property based on the underlying cash flow. If a property is bought at an “8 cap” it means that it will yield 8% return on the price). The commercial real estate game - at least in major cities - has turned into a game of “flipping.” As late as 10 years ago institutional investors had investment time frames of 5-10 years; today they are looking out 2-5 years at the most. In such a short period, cash flow is viewed as a course of funds to spruce up the property until the next fool rushes in to buy it at a higher price. That’s when the return on the investment is realized. Therefore, cap rates are ignored because “this time is different.”

The valuation stick of choice today is “replacement cost.” Would it cost more to put up a property or to buy one already there? This thinking of course is nonsense because the buyers know full well that building a new property is usually not an alternative; but it lets the purchaser assign to replacement cost pretty much whatever number they need to justify the price they are going to pay.

There are three tightly related reasons why this “new paradigm” has taken hold:

1. Flipping commercial properties is extraordinarily profitable for the REIT manager - not to be confused with the REIT investors. People do not realize the staggering amount of fees collected by managers in the form of transaction fees, asset management fees, co-property management fees (a property management fee charged by the REIT manager to the actual property manager to supervise the actual property manager; the actual property manager in turn passes that fee on to the building owner - the investors); professional/build-out fees, feasibility studies fees, and any other kind of fee you can concoct. And of course, if there is an actual gain at the end of the deal, the manager often tags on a performance fee. This is all money that comes off the top and goes to the REIT’s manager rather than the investor.

To give you a sense of the numbers involved, assuming a $200M asset and a 5 yr. holding period and a 20% gain on sale, a manager could rake in: 1.5% for the acquisition and disposal of the asset ( $6.6M); 1% per year in asset management fees ($10M); 1.75% property management fee on gross rents: here we’ll assume the $200M price bought 800k rsf at $250/sq.ft; avg. rents of $30/sq.ft. and a 10% vacancy rate: total management fee $1.9M; 5% of build-out costs: here we’ll assume space roll-over of 50% of the bldg. and tenant improvement allowances of $20/sq.: total fee $400k; 5% of gross profits on sale: $2M. Sum it all up and you get just shy of $21M over a 5-yr. period straight into the manager’s pockets, without a dime of capital at risk. Nice work indeed.

How is this possible? How can investor go along with this type of pillaging? Mostly because of reason No.2:

2. The large investors backing the REIT’s (pension funds, and the likes) could care less about the returns they lose out to the manager, as long as the projected returns on their investment are above the risk-free rate of return. Let’s assume that hurdle rate is 6.5%/yr., the investor requires an unleveraged $65M return over five years. With $35M coming from the projected capital gain (after miscellaneous transaction expenses such as brokerage fees, outsourced due diligence, etc.), the annual cash flow need only be $6M/year. Naturally, the key to the game is the “projected” capital gain factored into the equation at the time the asset is purchased. Over the last 5 years, that type of appreciation has been a no-brainer, and it is now a foregone conclusion that it will continue forever.

The last piece of the puzzle to create the type of frenzied flipping market we are seeing right now is cheap money, which allows buyers to leverage up capital and consummate more and more deals, at the same time. Assume the buyer puts a mortgage of 65% of Loan-To-Value (this is conservative) at Libor+ / interest only, the carrying cost would be about $8.5M/year. With gross cash rents of $21M, minus interest cost of $8.5M, minus management and co-management fees of approx. $5.5M, minus operating and cap-ex costs of $4.8M (I am assuming a conservative $6/sq.ft., though this number can vary a lot), and the net cash flow is about $2.2M or 3.1% on invested equity. This is just about the equivalent of the $6M/yr unleveraged cash flow discussed above.

As the saying goes “it’s all fun and games until someone loses an eye.” Using the assumptions above, the investor has almost no room for error. But not to worry, the manager’s fees have been paid, and if the underperformance is the result of a broader market downturn, how can one blame the manager for a “bad market”?

The next logical question is why would anyone dump money in this type of scheme? There are several reasons. The bulls will tell you that assuming 4%/yr. appreciation for 5 years is nonsense, as annual appreciation has been closer to 15% for the last 5 years. True and I wish them the best of luck that this will continue. They’ll also argue that it makes no sense to invest in Treasuries at 5% when one can get at least 6.5% in something just as solid, and with likely upside. On the topic of “solid,” I have three words for you: Resolution Trust Corporation; if you do not remember it, Google it. Getting away from the pseudo-sarcasm, maybe these investors realize that the all-mighty dollar is fading, and buildings may indeed be a better store of value than treasuries.

In the end however, I am convinced that the overriding reason these deals are getting done all over the place is the issue we harp on daily in the ‘Ville: when there is too much of something floating around - in this case printed dollars - those dollars not only depreciate from an economic standpoint, but they also depreciate in the psyche of the money “handlers”; the less something is worth the less people take care of it; and the less care is taken with money the more accounting shenanigans, and/or busted investments we are going to see. Welcome to the dark side of the “Greenspan Put”.

No positions in stocks mentioned.

THIS CONTENT IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES AND IS NOT INTENDED AS ADVICE.

 
Comment by Sunsetbeachguy
2006-07-07 06:59:29

One OT item:

Businessweek had an interview with Larry Summers.

Q: How do you see the ecomony playing out?
A: The end of this expansion is not in sight, [but] there is a gathering constellation of risk. The major risks include price inflation, asset deflation in the housing market, and the risks associated with our substantial dependence on foreign capital and oil imports from less than stable parts of the world. All of this means that negative surprises are more likely over the next year than in the typical year.

Q: Is the economy on the verge of higher inflation, requiring more Fed hikes, or do you anticipate a weakening in the second half that would cool inflationary pressures?
A: I think the FED is trying to navigate its way across a very narrow ledge on a fairly high precipice. [Below are] the risks of a slowdown and housing problems on the one hand and inflation on the other. It will take both very [precise] readings of the economy and good luck for us to come through smoothly over the next year and a half.
…….

Q: Why are people so nervous about the global markets?
A: I think that there is a growing awareness that there are substantial risks…AS the old joke goes, the three most dangerous words on a ski slope are: Follow me dad. And the four most dangerous words in markets are: It’s different this time.

I think that this interview is pretty impressive and Summers brings up housings risks without any prompting.

No link as the article is behind the firewall at Businessweek.

Comment by Getstucco
2006-07-07 07:22:04

“A: I think the FED is trying to navigate its way across a very narrow ledge on a fairly high precipice. [Below are] the risks of a slowdown and housing problems on the one hand and inflation on the other. It will take both very [precise] readings of the economy and good luck for us to come through smoothly over the next year and a half.”

Dr. Summers, are you reading here? Because this sounds quite a bit like one of my posts from a couple of months back. (I can see how we could independently reach the same conclusions…)

 
Comment by Mike in Pacific Beach
2006-07-07 08:19:17

if you use the following it will get you past most every “firewall” at major news outlets:

http://tinyurl.com/gosto

They have to let the Google and Yahoo crawlers in to catalog their articles, but they want to keep the public out. So make your browser look like a Google crawler.

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2006-07-07 07:01:30

MBA - same at the blasted company I am working for. It is all a bunch of BULL$HIT. Many are losing their jobs anyway, and a lot more to follow.

 
Comment by grim
2006-07-07 07:19:33

For those interested in the Northern New Jersey market.. Off topic, but as good a place as any..

Sales data for North Jersey is now available:

January
Average Sales (2003-2005): 2000
2005 Sales: 2013
2006 Sales: 1705
(Down 15.3% Year Over Year)

February
Average Sales (2003-2005): 1583
2005 Sales: 1578
2006 Sales: 1395
(Down 11.6% Year Over Year)

March
Average Sales (2003-2005): 2193
2005 Sales: 2256
2006 Sales: 2033
(Down 9.9% Year Over Year)

April
Average Sales (2003-2005): 2322
2005 Sales: 2383
2006 Sales: 1817
(Down 23.8% Year Over Year)

May
Average Sales (2003-2005): 2615
2005 Sales: 2725
2006 Sales: 2298
(Down 15.7% Year Over Year)

June
Average Sales (2003-2005): 3486
2005 Sales: 3682
2006 Sales: 2911
(Down 20.9% Year Over Year)

More data available here:

Northern New Jersey June Residential Home Sales

 
Comment by Arwen U.
2006-07-07 07:28:53

June statistics for Northern VA (and all counties around D.C.) are out at http://www.mris.com/reports/stats/

The first column is 2006 and the second is 2005

Arlington County, VA

Median Sold Price: $ 535,000 $ 500,375 6.92 %
Total Units Sold: 300 402 - 25.37 %

Alexandria City, VA

Median Sold Price: $ 459,900 $ 443,000 3.81 %
Total Units Sold: 232 348 - 33.33 %

Fairfax County, VA

Median Sold Price: $ 500,000 $ 500,500 - 0.10 %
Total Units Sold: 1,680 2,737 - 38.62 %

Prince William County, VA

Median Sold Price: $ 392,250 $ 385,500 1.75 %
Total Units Sold: 732 1,301 - 43.74 %

Loudoun County, VA

Median Sold Price: $ 485,000 $ 491,000 - 1.22 %
Total Units Sold: 515 994 - 48.19 %

Comment by crispy&cole
2006-07-07 07:44:04

Loudon County is in for a soft landing. LOL!

 
 
Comment by Getstucco
2006-07-07 07:43:04

Someday I hope to read a satisfactory explanation for one of the most puzzling aspects of the aftermath of the housing bubble: The tendency of housing sector stocks to rise on bad news. In the wake of analyst downgrades, a steady stream of bad news on cancelled orders, falling new home orders and housing starts, and a drop in the broad market indexes, the homebuilder stocks blithely hold their ground in consort…

http://tinyurl.com/n49cp

Comment by ajh
2006-07-07 08:01:27

The only non-conspiratorial factors I can think of offhand are:
1. “Sell the rumour, buy the news” (when the news is bad).
2. Reaction to movements in Treasury rates, especially the 10-year bond rate.

Comment by Getstucco
2006-07-07 11:57:12

I still think the builder stocks will eventually end up in the toilet where they belong, but someone is sure fighting gravity as much as possible. Maybe hedge fund gambling activities or homebuilder share buyback programs play a role?

 
 
 
Comment by pvb
2006-07-07 07:58:24

During the last RE bust (commercial and rediential) in the US, I recall reading that foreigners (e.g., Japanese investors in Hawaii and California) lost their shirts by buying high then selling low.

Do we have a profile of the domestic/foreign risk in the current market? We hear a lot about California-based flippers infiltrating the west, but do we have empirical data on the breakdown of investors in particular?

Comment by ajh
2006-07-07 08:04:03

I know one big Australian construction firm seems to be entering the US market at exactly the wrong time (and places :)). Go to;

http://www.lendlease.com.au

and have a look at the announcement from 29th June.

 
 
Comment by Chip
2006-07-07 08:18:19

Now that Fall elections are looming, I wish we could have a thread that skewers all the politicians who have failed either to bank all of the windfall property taxes the bubble generated, or to reduce the millage (rate) to compensate. The electorate is going to be really pissed when, in the middle of all their other coming financial woes, local governments raise property tax rates to support the bloated bureaucracies they bought with the falsely-based revenues of the housing bubble. I’m sure that somewhere, some local governments acted responsibly, but I don’t know where they are. For the rest, throw the bums out.

 
Comment by John Law
2006-07-07 08:21:57

How will retirees really effect the housing market? a recent article said financial assets will come under stress as the population sells their assets as they age. I believe this is happening somewhat in Japan and Europe right now.

 
Comment by John Law
2006-07-07 08:31:49

I have another suggestion.

where are the cautious real estate bubble, besides on this blog?

it’s funny that when I read articles about this new oil boom, everyone is cautious about not getting burned again. yet in real estate, nobody remembers the last downturn. nobody. how can that be?

there was an article about a wyoming rancher the other day who was also involved in the oil biz. he was being very careful, buying used machinery, keeping out of crushing debt and not buying something for his oil biz that he can’t use for his ranch. where are these people in the housing boom?

Mid-East ‘learns oil-boom lesson’s

I should say though, the stock markets in the ME weren’t showing much restraint.

 
Comment by S- Crow
2006-07-07 08:46:40

I’d appreciate more input from people in the business on their market observations, good and bad. What are those in the business going to be doing if they decide to go back to a prior work environment. There are thousands of support staff in escrow, title, mortgage etc….that will be affected by markets slowing down. This doesn’t include the construction industry, which is vast.

For example, we know a wonderful husband & wife Realtor team that is really struggling in sales. They are considering alternatives to real estate and we happen to be in market that is still plugging along rather well Seattle-Puget Sound area.

 
Comment by Getstucco
2006-07-07 14:50:18

Assuming the majority of these single women will eventually cohabitate with a life partner, is their collective effect on demand (+25%!!!) permanent, or a transient artifact of the bubble?
———————————————————————————

“GENDER GAP
Single women jump into realty market
By Dana Dratch, Bankrate.com
Last Update: 9:56 AM ET Jul 6, 2006

NORTH PALM BEACH, Fla. (Bankrate.com) — These days more than one in five home buyers is a single woman. Spurred on by a healthy real estate market, a variety of new loan options and more buying power than they had in the past, single women have become a powerful demographic in the real estate market.”

http://tinyurl.com/epblz

 
Comment by sfbayqt
2006-07-07 21:01:43

Ran across this story on the PilotOnline.com (Hampton Roads, Virginia online news):

“Developer Plans 1,096 Homes Near Lesner Bridge”
http://tinyurl.com/z8mqf

VIRGINIA BEACH - A developer filed plans Thursday to build 1,096 homes on Pleasure House Point, one of the largest undeveloped waterfront tracts left in the city.

The sandy parcel on the Lynnhaven River, southwest of the Lesner Bridge, sports nearly a mile of shoreline. It winds toward the Chesapeake Bay and offers a wooded vista along Shore Drive.

The proposal is expected to spark a community debate as the city wrestles with concerns about housing density, traffic and the lack of open space along Shore Drive.

Developer L.M. Sandler & Sons calls the proposed community Indigo Dunes.

The company has a contract to buy the 69 acres from Virginia Beach businessman Wayne McLeskey, who has owned the site for more than 30 years. City Council approval is needed to develop it.

On Thursday, the developer submitted a site plan and requests for a rezoning and a conditional-use permit.

The development would feature a mix of apartments, condominiums, town houses and detached single-family homes. The tallest buildings would be twin 11-story condo high-rises. A small retail area designed to serve residents of the complex is included.

The planned community would take about 10 years to build and would be valued at $1 billion when finished. The developer is pitching it as “sophisticated coastal living.”

*******************************************

There is much more to the article, plus comments from residents who live in the area at the end of the article. It looks like there is a lot of overbuilding in Virginia Beach. Anyone from the area care to comment with first-hand accounts?

BayQT~

 
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