September 13, 2017

The Question Of The Market Over-Building

A report from the Deseret News in Utah. “For the eighth straight year, vacancy rates for rental apartments in the Salt Lake metro area have declined — down to the lowest rates ever. ‘This low vacancy is fueling a record-breaking level of construction of new apartment buildings,’ said Kip Paul, executive director of investment sales at Cushman & Wakefield’s Salt Lake office. ‘This begs the question of whether the market is over-building. The data shows that even with previously unmatched levels of development, the demand is such that there is no sign of oversupply in the foreseeable future and property investment, particularly in midsize communities, is particularly attractive to buyers.’”

“‘In my experience, this (market cycle) is quite unique because of the extended duration of this (high) phase of the cycle,’ said Dan Lofgren, CEO of Cowboy Properties. He said a full cycle can take between seven and 10 years to go from a high demand peak down to a low point, then return to the next cyclical peak. That has not been the case in this current cycle, he noted. ‘We have been at this high part of the cycle for six or seven years,’ he said.”

From AZ Big Media in Arizona. “The Phoenix apartment market has notched a strong two years, as occupancy has remained essentially full and rent growth levels have trended well above national norms. A total of 13,356 units were under construction at the end of 2nd quarter 2017, the fourth straight quarter in which construction volumes topped the 13,000-unit mark. Those levels are in line with the ongoing construction highs seen in the previous cycle’s peak in 2007 and 2008.”

“Meanwhile, building activity is still sparse in the western suburbs, which are traditionally weaker-performing areas. But those areas should be watched for near-term starts. Permitting volumes remain elevated in the metro, and big blocks of product emerging on the west side historically have been a signal that the metro is overheating.”

The Dallas Morning News in Texas. “The long-predicted slowdown in North Texas apartment construction may finally be in the works. With over 50,000 rental units under construction, Dallas-Fort Worth has been the top apartment building market in the country in recent years. But a significant slowdown in permits for new apartments this year may herald a decline in building cranes on our horizon. Apartment analysts have been forecasting a slowdown in North Texas building starts to let the market catch up with several years of dramatic construction.”

“‘It only took me three or four years of saying ‘this is the peak’ to be right,’ said RealPage economist Greg Willett. ‘While the permit volumes can move around quite a bit from one month to the next, the slide in the most recent stats is big enough to look like the inflection point in building activity. Now that we’re seeing rent growth cool or even flatten in the urban core and Frisco, where completions are heaviest, some capital sources are beginning to take a wait-and-see attitude before placing more money in the apartment sector.’”

“But that doesn’t mean North Texas won’t have plenty of new apartments. Almost 30,000 units are opening their doors in the area this year. ‘With around 50,000 units under construction, we’re still going to be delivering lots of apartments for at least another couple years,’ Willett said.”

From National Real Estate Investor. “This summer, for the first time in several years, student housings beds were not leasing as quickly as the year before. ‘The student housing market moderated this year,’ says Taylor Gunn, student housing analytics lead for data firm Axiometrics. ‘This was anticipated to occur at some point after several consecutive years of record performance. The space is becoming more competitive with new operators and investors, more supply and universities revitalizing their housing. A lot of these factors can be expected with a growing industry, but can prove to be a challenge for some going forward.’”

“Developers were expected to deliver 46,000 new student housing beds for the fall 2017 semester, though some of those bed have surely been delayed, potentially into 2018, according to Axiometrics. That’s roughly the same number of beds developers opened in 2015 and 2016. ‘Oversupply at the top end of the market is also something we’re closely monitoring,’ says JJ Smith, president of CA Student Living.”

From Minnesota Daily. “Hundreds of college students spill from the fraternity houses lining University Avenue on Friday nights. During the week, the houses are emptier than normal. Despite the fact 11 percent of the University of Minnesota’s students participate in Greek life, some Greek houses struggle to attract members to fill their rooms. The development of multiple luxury apartment complexes around campus may keep members from living in fraternity houses, said Chi Psi President Dylan Marvel and Phi Sigma Kappa President Garrett Caddes in an email.”

“‘Frat houses are older and do not typically have the same amenities as some of the new apartments popping up around campus,’ Caddes said. Other apartments scattering the borders of the University campus are often the first choice for students, pushing fraternities to adjust their prices to stay competitive, Caddes said.”

“‘Really, if you don’t have a good number of live-ins, that can really cause your house to flop,’ Marvel said.”

The Real Deal on New York. “Price chopping this week was through the roof. The very roof some of these owners are trying hard to escape. Reductions on the city’s most expensive homes’ price tags slowed over the summer. But last week, more than 20 pads in the over-$10 million market were discounted by more than 5 percent, according to data from StreetEasy. 151 East 58th Street, 47A. Previous Price: $14 million. Current Price: $11.8 million ($3,858 per square foot). Percentage Drop: 16 percent. It hit the market for $14 million last October and has been steadily trending down since. Its price was reduced earlier this year.”

“Compass’ Victoria Shtainer and Gabriel Zapata have the listing. ‘I had a long conversation with my owner,’ Shtainer said. ‘We feel that $11.8 million is where the market is today.’”

The San Diego Reader in California. “Is the demand for housing suitable to fill the thousands of rental units that have sprung up in downtown’s East Village since the mid-2000s, and enough to sustain even more units currently under construction or in the planning phases? If so, some longtime business owners wonder where their customers have gone, and residents of new projects are confused as to why so many of the units in their buildings are offered on the short-term rental market to vacationers or other travelers.”

“Gina Rodriguez, one of the first tenants to move into the Form 15 mid-rise in October of 2014. She and her husband began having problems when Essex Apartments took over as the property manager. ‘Once the new management team took over, [Airbnb-style listings] started popping up as soon as leases were up, it seemed,’ Rodriguez continued. She says that by the time she moved out last September (breaking her lease to do so), at least 20 units in the building were being used full-time as short-term rentals.”

“‘They would treat the building like a hotel and use it to host loud parties, take over the amenities, and generally trash the place. It was always the same known Airbnb apartments that would receive complaints and nothing was ever done to address the issue. I think the most aggravating part was that management not only did nothing about it, but they were the ones orchestrating it!’ she said.”

“Walking the neighborhood, even while residential upper floors show signs of life, a number of vacant street-level storefronts stand out. Across the street from the mostly unoccupied ground level of Form 15 lies the building that once housed Salazar’s Fine Mexican Food, a business Marta Radcliffe and her family operated for 45 years until it was shuttered in late July.”

“‘It was a sad, slow, kind of drawn-out death,’ Radcliffe says. ‘The business has just died over the last ten years or so. A lot of high-rises went in, and they’re all empty. Historically we had a lot of small local businesses — our breakfast and lunch were our strong times. But as they built all the high-rises, we lost our breakfast and lunch business because all the local workers were gone. It’s like a ghost town down there now,’ Radcliffe continues. ‘There are a lot of homeless people nearby; they’re about the only ones we’d see the last few years.’”




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80 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2017-09-13 08:30:07

‘In my experience, this (market cycle) is quite unique because of the extended duration of this (high) phase of the cycle,’ said Dan Lofgren, CEO of Cowboy Properties. He said a full cycle can take between seven and 10 years to go from a high demand peak down to a low point, then return to the next cyclical peak. That has not been the case in this current cycle, he noted. ‘We have been at this high part of the cycle for six or seven years’

We were discussing the impact of a decade of QE/ZIRP the other day, and I think this is the big enchilada. Why have these guys missed it so badly?

‘even with previously unmatched levels of development, the demand is such that there is no sign of oversupply in the foreseeable future and property investment…is particularly attractive to buyers’

And this:

‘A total of 13,356 units were under construction at the end of 2nd quarter 2017, the fourth straight quarter in which construction volumes topped the 13,000-unit mark. Those levels are in line with the ongoing construction highs seen in the previous cycle’s peak in 2007 and 2008.’

Greater Phoenix usually builds 1,300 units a year.

‘Meanwhile, building activity is still sparse in the western suburbs, which are traditionally weaker-performing areas. But those areas should be watched for near-term starts. Permitting volumes remain elevated in the metro, and big blocks of product emerging on the west side historically have been a signal that the metro is overheating.’

I drove through this area yesterday. They are getting ready to put up 40,000 shacks.

Comment by Rental Watch
2017-09-13 09:11:06

I was having a conversation with a developer the other day about why this cycle has gone on for so long (at least on the commercial side). He’s been in the business for +/- 40 years, I’m a relative newbie at about 20, but both of us have been seeing the same thing. Despite interest rates being very low, lenders are still being pretty conservative in their underwriting of new construction.

So, supply has been more constrained than at other “market peaks”.

This is more of an aftershock of the credit crisis than a direct impact from ZIRP.

Greater Phoenix usually builds 1,300 units a year.

The implication of this statement is that they are building 10x too many apartments in Phoenix.

From 1950 to 2010, the population grew from 375,000 to 4,193,000 (and was estimated at 4.575MM in 2015).

That’s an average of 64k new residents per year over a really long period of time (from 1950 to 2010).

Conservatively, you need 20-25k units per year in total over that timeframe. Recent growth (from 2010 to 2015) implies 76k people per year, meaning you need ~20% more than 20-25k based on recent population growth.

And none of these numbers factor in homes destroyed from fire or tear-downs.

In the last 12 months through July 2017, there were 28,400 housing starts (both single and multi-family).

Big picture…construction generally is not out of line with population growth in Phoenix.

Are they building too much of some kinds of housing in some parts of the MSA? Probably.

But they aren’t building 50k per year like they were from 2004 to 2007.

By the way, the average from FRED from 1988 to July 2017 is for an average of about 31,000 pear year in the greater Phoenix MSA…that’s as far back as that dataset goes.

Comment by Ben Jones
2017-09-13 09:27:28

‘64k new residents per year over a really long period of time’

That’s ancient history. Phoenix isn’t going to grow like that ever again. You supply and demanders are walking, talking examples of why everything is getting oversupplied with the wrong product in every city and burg across the country. A 72 year high in bay area construction and you still think it’s “constrained.”

Comment by Rental Watch
2017-09-13 10:13:38

64k per year is ancient history.

The more recent data (2010-2015) shows greater growth.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2017-09-13 10:16:17

It’s still rear view mirror planning.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-09-13 10:36:19

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2017/05/25/phoenix-tops-us-in-population-growth-more-than-la.html

Without a working crystal ball, everything is rearview mirror planning, but the long-term trend of growth in Phoenix appears to be continuing.

Only “it’s different this time” thinking would lead one to assume it’s going to be dramatically different over the next few years (which are the only years that matter for the next marginal development).

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2017-09-13 12:29:19

“everything is rearview mirror planning…”

I’ve seen this a lot in my business career. Put a ruler on it and extrapolate to infinity without any insight. It leads to dramatic fails.

 
Comment by SW
2017-09-13 13:10:42

Interesting conversation guys. The biz journal article says population growth is 30 K per year. So, who is right about what should be normal apartment building growth per year? Ben at 1300 units or rental watch at 20 K units?

It would seem that being on the wrong side of this bet would be a huge loss.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2017-09-13 18:14:39

The question is: Who is living in the mania?

 
 
 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2017-09-13 11:33:25

Remember…… Population growth is at record lows.

“Baby Bust: US Population Growth Crashes To 80-Year Low”

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/baby-bust-us-population-growth-crashes-to-80-year-low/article/2610398

Comment by oxide
2017-09-13 13:13:07

I don’t see this in my area, but flyover must really be hurting. I’m always a bit surprised when I go on a road trip or rent a car on a business trip. I’m always surprised to see how few cars are on the road, how easy it is to make a left at a stop sign, how the grocery stores have people in them but aren’t bursting at the seams. And the locals don’t seem to know how empty their towns are, because it’s a normal day for them. They would get a rude awakening if they went into one of the grocery stores down here.

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Comment by Mafia Blocks
2017-09-13 13:17:31

Hey Donk.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2017-09-13 13:53:27

flyover must really be hurting

I think they are hurting but I think it’s independent of what you’re seeing. To me you are describing what is “normal” for most of the country and always has been. That’s why they are so surprised when they come to the coasts and can’t believe that humans would voluntarily live that way. It takes a while to get used to something totally different than how you grew up.

In my hometown Walmart is actually a pleasant experience as long as you don’t go just before Christmas or the 4th of July. I got a rude awakening going into Walmart in California and quickly figured out why anybody with money goes to Target.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2017-09-13 16:51:39

I drove down to Virginia Beach last week to take my number 1 grandson home from a fishing trip up north. The 12 lane highway with stop and go traffic was a shock. Why do people intentionally do this was my reaction.

On the way home I took the Coastal Highway. It was longer, but shorter, if you know what I mean.

 
Comment by redmondjp
2017-09-13 21:16:01

Flyover hurting? I’m spending the week in Denver and I don’t see it here. From local news radio this morning: How much do you think the state of Colorado makes on recreational pot sales? You know what the latest MONTHLY gross sales number was across the entire state?

$100M

No joke. Figure out the taxes on that!

And that’s not even counting the medical pot sales . . . or the black market sales . . .

 
Comment by MightyMike
2017-09-14 08:50:09

To me you are describing what is “normal” for most of the country and always has been.

That’s only true if most of the country means most of the area (square miles) of the country. Most of the population lives in metropolitan areas - cities and their suburbs - like you do currently.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2017-09-14 09:27:53

That’s only true if most of the country means most of the area (square miles) of the country.

For the purpose of the conversation with Oxy, it does.

 
Comment by oxide
2017-09-14 13:59:35

“Flyover” tends to exclude big metro areas, even if they are not on the coasts. Interior big cities like Denver, Houston, DFW, or Chicago were never flyover. After all, they all have big airports that people fly INTO, not over! :smile:

 
 
 
 
Comment by Sean
2017-09-13 11:13:54

We were discussing the impact of a decade of QE/ZIRP the other day, and I think this is the big enchilada. Why have these guys missed it so badly?

It’s because Real Estate Analysts are terrible at their jobs.

Comment by Ben Jones
2017-09-13 11:44:22

Almost all of them are cheerleaders to be ignored. Case in point:

‘It only took me three or four years of saying ‘this is the peak’ to be right,’ said RealPage economist Greg Willett. ‘While the permit volumes can move around quite a bit from one month to the next, the slide in the most recent stats is big enough to look like the inflection point in building activity. Now that we’re seeing rent growth cool or even flatten in the urban core and Frisco, where completions are heaviest, some capital sources are beginning to take a wait-and-see attitude before placing more money in the apartment sector.’

OK Greg, what should have happened 3 or 4 years ago was a pull back. But it’s still going great guns, even as the wheels are coming off. If you were being objective you would have looked into why it didn’t stop then. The tidal wave of Yellen bucks going into commercial real estate. Too much money chasing yield. But that would have required you to spoil the party, even if just a little bit, and we can’t have that!

Notice that NOW, as the water goes out, lenders are “beginning to take a wait-and-see attitude”. Let me remind what was going on in 2014: nutso permitting, financing, refinancing, and the most important thing - crazy talk about a new paradigm that was never, ever going to end.

Comment by Sean
2017-09-13 12:16:10

Exactly. When you are underwater on property you may as well adapt a ‘Wait and See’ attitude. Or throw the keys on the roof and email the bank.

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Comment by whirlyite
2017-09-13 12:48:16

Call the Cajun Navy!

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2017-09-13 16:28:53

But that would have required you to spoil the party, even if just a little bit, and we can’t have that!

And Greg’s paycheck no doubt hinged on not spoiling the party.

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Comment by Professor 🐻
2017-09-13 13:19:41

“For the eighth straight year, vacancy rates for rental apartments in the Salt Lake metro area have declined — down to the lowest rates ever.”

Cuz everyone wants to live there?

Comment by azdude
2017-09-13 15:37:48

how long can coastal elites keep living off their equity?

Comment by Carl Morris
2017-09-13 16:02:11

As long as runways need foam and dollars can be traded for necessities?

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Comment by MacBeth
2017-09-13 17:08:58

“How long can coastal elites keep living off their equity?”

That’s easy. Until they drain their newfound cities of any wealth held by the locals.

Once the locals are drained of wealth, the community will be too expensive for the elites to live off of equity.

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Comment by In Colorado
2017-09-13 16:26:45

Utah is supposed to be one of those “business friendly” states. I recall reading a story about how Wall St. firms were moving a lot of their back office work to Salt Lake, something about cheap college grads and MBA’s (like half the price in NYC) or something like that.

Comment by Carl Morris
2017-09-13 16:46:43

I could believe it. In Colorado the BYU grads I was around were mostly grad students at CU going into a variety of things. And the graduates I was around were mostly engineers.

But I’m noticing that here in San Jose all the young BYU guys that I’m around are MBAs working for Google, Cisco, FB, etc.. I had no idea that they get pumped out in these kinds of volumes before…they are everywhere here.

Based on what I’m seeing I could totally see having the high end software work done here and all the boring stuff done in Utah instead of bringing them out here.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2017-09-13 08:38:59

‘A lot of high-rises went in, and they’re all empty…as they built all the high-rises, we lost our breakfast and lunch business because all the local workers were gone. It’s like a ghost town down there now’

That’s some shortage.

Comment by Rental Watch
2017-09-13 09:18:22

“Part of the problem could be related to the high cost of housing — this spring, overall vacancy rates in the county were hovering around 2 percent. For units with a monthly rent between $2200 and $2299, however, vacancies accounted for close to 20 percent of available units.”

We are currently underwriting an apartment development on land that is super-cheap (non-market land transaction)…it doesn’t “pencil” except at rents that 95% of us would consider expensive. Land represents ~2% of the total project cost.

Building truly affordable new housing is the biggest challenge out there right now.

Comment by Blue Skye
2017-09-13 10:41:16

“truly affordable new housing…”

That is rather amusing, since about all we have heard of for years is “luxury” housing, oversized, gilded and loaded with amenities.

 
Comment by Karen
2017-09-13 12:26:06

it doesn’t “pencil” except at rents that 95% of us would consider expensive. Land represents ~2% of the total project cost.

Well how does it ‘pencil’ when you have at least a 20% vacancy rate (self-reported - the real vacancy rate is probably higher)?

You can’t get blood from a stone, and how something looks on paper doesn’t enable you to pay back your loans when the projections fail to materialize.

Comment by MightyMike
2017-09-14 08:54:28

When did the word pencil become a verb? It could be another bubble phenomenon.

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Comment by SW
2017-09-13 13:19:56

If the land is so cheap, what is the other 98% of costs? Genuinely curious. Thanks in advance!

Comment by GuillotineRenovator
2017-09-13 18:01:04

Fuzzy math…

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Comment by MacBeth
2017-09-13 17:11:25

“Building truly affordable new housing is the biggest challenge out there right now.”

Nonsense.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2017-09-13 09:54:59

‘But that doesn’t mean North Texas won’t have plenty of new apartments. Almost 30,000 units are opening their doors in the area this year. ‘With around 50,000 units under construction, we’re still going to be delivering lots of apartments for at least another couple years’

Oh yeah, permits are down 20% through July. That’s still 19,000 new units permitted in 2017. The last numbers I saw for DFW absorption was the first quarter of this year and it was negative. Why so much construction? Apartments are a commodity for investors who believe it can only go up.

Comment by Rental Watch
2017-09-13 10:10:45

I’ve passed on a number of DFW apartments, but they were presented by folks who see apartments as less risky (because you probably won’t ever be completely empty), and they see DFW as an area of growth.

Seems to me like you will always be fighting the concessions being presented by the next new apartment to be built.

Some folks aren’t worried about the capitalized value…they only care about being able to eek out a 5% return, which seems crazy to me.

We decline these projects because of the complete lack of barriers to entry and the ease at which the properties become “commodities”. There are lots of places that are building too many apartments if your desire is to have some pricing power as a landlord…DFW is definitely on that list.

Comment by Blue Skye
2017-09-13 10:44:35

“a commodity for investors who believe it can only go up.”

Ditto for SFH at any price over 2.5 x income.

 
Comment by scdave
2017-09-13 16:26:05

e decline these projects because of the complete lack of barriers to entry ??

Yep….In the end, they will cannibalize each-other…

 
 
 
Comment by Apartment 401
2017-09-13 11:25:08

Realtors are liars.

 
Comment by tango_uniform
2017-09-13 11:37:23

You know we’re near the top when even Slashdot gets into the “raised eyebrow” stories about Bay-area properties:

https://news.slashdot.org/story/17/09/13/160221/782000-over-asking-for-a-house-in-sunnyvale

Comment by azdude
2017-09-13 12:09:36

real estate has a cult like following in the bay area. Seems all u have to do is buy a house and watch the cash roll in.

Comment by MacBeth
2017-09-14 04:45:02

What zip code do you live in?

What’s your area code?

LOL!

Nowhere else in the country are the locals so interested in sizing each other up than in California.

Always comparing themselves to everyone else. Always. And in all matters, it seems.

 
 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2017-09-13 11:41:37

Bradenton, FL Housing Prices Crater 7% YOY

http://www.movoto.com/bradenton-fl/market-trends/

 
Comment by rj not in chicago anymore
2017-09-13 12:04:31

“‘Really, if you don’t have a good number of live-ins, that can really cause your house to flop,’ Marvel said.”

Thereby the word of the day “Flophouse”.

End of this cycle is gonna be one for the ages - it will get real ugly.

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2017-09-13 12:09:15

Remember…… Nothing accelerates the economy and creates jobs like falling prices to dramatically lower and more affordable levels. Nothing.

 
Comment by Sean
2017-09-13 12:22:46

Texas or Florida: Which one will recover faster?

This was a discussion I had with my neighbors last night. I say Florida, because of tourism, old people who vote and northerners with an interest in their rental properties. He says Texas, because it’s less damage, more Mexicans willing to work and a ‘Texas tough attitude’. What say you folks?

Comment by azdude
2017-09-13 15:35:22

texas will take care of business quick

 
 
Comment by jeff
2017-09-13 12:28:51

The anger out there is prodigious.

Comment by Obama Goons
2017-09-13 12:59:08

The foot stamping is VENOMenal.

Comment by palmetto
2017-09-13 14:11:45

You have no reason to think such a thing! Why, the very idea!

And now, the short story “Harrison Bergeron” by Kurt Vonnegut.

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

Comment by Tarara Boomdea
2017-09-14 13:33:53

Short film adaptation of Kurt Vonnegut’s “Harrison Bergeron,” worth tracking down whole movie, it’s very good:
2081, the Movie

Could sign up under watch the full film and see it; I didn’t:
teaching2081.org

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Comment by Karen
2017-09-13 12:31:23

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/harveys-hit-to-mortgages-could-be-4-times-worse-than-predicted/ar-AArSFrE?li=BBnbfcN

New estimates suggest at least 300,000 borrowers will become delinquent on their loans and 160,000 could become seriously delinquent…

That is four times the original prediction…

Comment by Carl Morris
2017-09-13 13:57:02

What better time to walk away if you were already hurting anyway?

Like Milli Vanilli said…blame it on the rain :-).

Comment by Ol'Bubba
2017-09-13 19:16:24

Like Milli Vanilli said…”read my lips”.

 
 
 
Comment by azdude
2017-09-13 15:30:29

u cant go away without using king dollar. They have u by the balls. They can print as much as they want and u will still grab your ankles.

 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2017-09-13 16:14:10

Scripps Ranch, CA Housing Prices Crater 6% YOY

https://www.zillow.com/scripps-ranch-san-diego-ca/home-values/

 
Comment by Taxpayers
2017-09-13 16:18:04

Zillow says I’m crashing
The Zestimate which has decreased by $4,049 in the last 30 days

Comment by azdude
2017-09-13 17:13:11

do u need some xanex?

People in CA continue to overpay as more yellen bucks are sent out to duped homewowners from the last bubble implosion.

 
Comment by oxide
2017-09-14 09:43:58

Zillow says I went up about a thousand bucks this month. And they have this wacky idea that my house value and increased 28% since I bought five years ago.

They are full of it. Maybe 15% appreciation…

Comment by Carl Morris
2017-09-14 11:06:44

I was just looking at a ~1M house in Fremont yesterday on Zillow that they claimed had gone up in value by 50k last month. Seems like very laggy information to me.

Comment by rms
2017-09-14 11:58:42

Is that flat ground or the hilly Mission San Jose area?

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Comment by Carl Morris
2017-09-14 13:33:16

It’s down on the flats close to the Dumbarton(?) bridge. Around that area there are some places where the schools are all 10s and Ranch 99 is close by so the Chinese people love it there.

 
Comment by rms
2017-09-14 18:47:35

“It’s down on the flats close to the Dumbarton(?) bridge”

Hard to believe that a house fetches $1M out there.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2017-09-15 10:11:20

I agree, but most of them do now. The nice newer townhomes are just under a million and the new construction on the ~2000ft^2 is over 1.5M now. You can still get old 2br townhomes for 600-700k and old houses for about 900k.

But what drives it besides Chinese people liking the schools is Facebook and all the Stanford stuff right across the bridge. So people think of it as “Palo-Alto-adjacent”. East Palo Alto would go crazy except nobody is ready to take on the school problems there apparently. And if they have enough money for private schools then there are lots of other options.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2017-09-13 18:11:36

Lanai City, Hawaii Housing Prices Crater 19% YOY

https://www.zillow.com/lanai-city-hi/home-values/

 
Comment by jeff
2017-09-13 22:51:29

Squeeze - Black Coffee In Bed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUx5z9O2ZGk

Squeeze - Pulling Mussels (From The Shell)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_0gojOB4QE

Squeeze - Tempted (1981)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22CNnjcW2bk

 
Comment by julie
2017-09-14 08:33:19

Does anyone have advice for someone choosing a college major right now? My son is so confused and so am I. Thanks. It’s related to housing because without a decent job my son won’t be buying a house anytime soon. He’s smart and he took Physics and Calculus in HS. He was thinking computers, but i heard it was somewhat saturated. What specifically should he learn how to do?

Comment by 2banana
2017-09-14 08:46:42

Plastics….

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2017-09-14 09:30:18

Whatever he finds really interesting. “Computers” only works out well if you really love it. In that case the saturation level doesn’t matter.

 
Comment by rms
2017-09-14 12:34:12

A BS in Electrical or Mechanical Engineering is a great foundation; at this point he’ll be more numerate than most of the population. Work part time as an intern in a public utility and possibly identify an area for an MS or shift gears and get an MBA.

Comment by Carl Morris
2017-09-14 13:35:49

I have a BSEE and an MBA and can say that the MBA is pointless unless you go to a top name school and get out of the engineering side. Long ago it supposedly helped you get engineering mgmt positions but I don’t believe that’s true any more.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2017-09-14 14:06:34

My advice is to DOUBLE MAJOR.

DOUBLE MAJOR
DOUBLE MAJOR
DOUBLE MAJOR

Even if it takes an extra year of tuition, it’s worth it. Pick one good STEM major and one good soft science like economics or logistics or accounting.

The “technology” majors that are offered by big state schools are also very good. They are sort of like advanced trade schools — where the skills gap is — and many offer automatic or embedded associates degrees.

Utility and the energy sector is a very good career field. Make sure your son stays physically fit too — if he works on an industrial site, he’s gonna need that fitness.

 
 
Comment by julie
2017-09-14 09:01:10

Thanks for the reply. What kind of plastics? What is the college degree called? Where do the people actually work with this type of degree?

Comment by Blue Skye
2017-09-14 10:50:02

He wasn’t serious. It’s a quote from the movie “The Graduate” from the 1960s.

Perhaps only experience shows what a person will want to do. Advice from strangers isn’t going to do it.

 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2017-09-14 09:14:02

Swampscott, MA Housing Prices Crater 11% YOY</b.

https://www.zillow.com/swampscott-ma/home-values/

 
Comment by julie
2017-09-14 09:47:31

Oh, I agree about the level of interest being important but it’s just too vague to tell a kid, “Do what interests you”. I know too many unemployed or underemployed people with good college degrees. I know he could learn welding or get his CDL, but I just can’t figure out what college degrees actually really lead to good jobs.

Comment by Carl Morris
2017-09-14 11:10:05

But that’s my point. There really aren’t degrees that actually really lead to good jobs any more IMO. There are good degrees to have IF you also love what you’re doing. Otherwise you just become a statistic with a degree.

If he loves tech and working in cubicles (or open bays), then yes, an engineering or computer science degree is definitely worth having.

 
 
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