November 17, 2017

The Times Of Rising Interest Rates Is Beckoning

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “A full-floor, 6,240-square-foot penthouse at Midtown billionaires’ bunker One57 recently sold at a foreclosure auction for $36 million. That number is 29 percent lower than the original $50.9 million price shelled out by Nigerian businessman Kolawole Akanni Aluko for the newly-minted condo in 2014. The fire sale was the fourth resale in the 1,004-foot-tall Billionaire’s Row flagship trophy tower to trade at a loss, according to data from appraiser Miller Samuel Inc. And there are currently 16 apartments at the building listed for sale, most of them by the developer. Additional unsuccessful flips include a 4,483-square-foot 65th-floor apartment that sold in April for 23 percent less than its 2014 purchase price and an identical unit on the 62nd floor whose buyer paid $31.7 million for it 2014 and sold it at a loss last year for $23.5 million.”

“Extell is now marketing units at a discount; in a regulatory filing on the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange this year where Extell sells debt, the company admitted that ultra-luxury sales are slowing in the city, saying it had a adjusted the building’s profit forecasts accordingly. And the developer and resellers both trying to sell units means there are more of them vying for top dollar.”

“If President Trump and congressional Republicans have their way, homeownership in California will become less attractive. And that really worries Realtors and builders. And, of course, it also should greatly disturb home buyers. ‘The current limit is too low for Californians,’ contends Steve White, a Studio City broker who is president of the state Realtors association. ‘In a high-priced state where we’ve already got a shortage of homes for sale, this simply traps people in their homes longer. Fewer people will move and that will just exacerbate the home shortage.’”

“Very possibly. And that also, of course, would cut into real estate agents’ commissions.”

“The Federal Housing and Finance Agency released its latest Foreclosure Prevention Report, covering the month of August 2017. Released monthly, the Report tracks foreclosure prevention actions undertaken by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In August 2017, the Enterprises completed 15,298 foreclosure prevention actions. GSE foreclosure prevention actions as a whole increased 10 percent in August, with increases in loan modifications serving as the primary driver. Loan modifications were also up 10 percent for August.”

“One statistic that stands out is that the share of modifications with principal forbearance, where the lender delays foreclosure if the borrower can catch up within a given window of time, increased to 34 percent. That’s up from 30 percent in July, and up from 19 percent in January 2017. Foreclosure starts were also on the rise. August totaled out at 17,652, compared to 12,255 in July. That’s a noteworthy spike after foreclosure starts dropped from 13,028 in June.”

“Local property manager Danielle Dobson, concurs that Lower Mainland property investors have had very unrealistic expectations about the Squamish rental market. They bought condo apartments with the expectation they could rent them at rates that paid their mortgage and left them cash positive. ‘Some of these investors were seeking rents $800-900 above what the market would support,’ said Dobson. ‘I actually had one lady, not a client, she just wanted my advice, ask why her two bedroom apartment that was, maybe, 1000 square feet, wouldn’t rent at $2,800 a month. I told her because it should be at most $2,200, and really $2,000. But she didn’t listen, and it sat vacant. Now it’s down to $2,500, but it still won’t rent at that rate.’”

“‘The problem was a lot of people came to town buying income property, and the rental rates they expected were not achievable. You can always put something on Craigslist, that doesn’t mean you’ll get what you’re asking. The average income in Squamish just doesn’t support some of the rates people are asking,’ said Hannah Goodwin, a local property manager with Dynamic Property Management.”

“Norway’s currency, the krone, has been caught in another puzzling downward spiral this week that’s left analysts groping for explanations. A possibility is that foreign traders are spooked by the ongoing decline in housing prices after they’d reached record highs. ‘Most of us believe the housing market will land on its feet … but seen with other glasses, like American or Asian, the housing market scenario can be different,’ Magne Østnor, a currency exchange strategist for DNB Markets in Oslo told DN.”

“The value of the Swedish krone has also fallen this week, so the two Scandinavian currencies may have affected each other. ‘And there are signs that liquidity isn’t so good right now,’ said Bjørn-Roger Wilhelmsen, chief economist at Nordkinn Asset Management.”

“What has started to happen in Oslo, is now seemingly spreading to Stockholm: Evidence is mounting that the Swedish capital’s crazy, two-decade-long housing price surge could be levelling off. ‘Prices have dropped 10 to 15 percent since this summer,’ said Carina Husgård, a Stockholm real estate broker at Bosthlm to Dagens Industri. She was one of several real estate brokers confirming a — what one described as ‘permanent’ — dip in house prices to the Swedish business daily.”

“‘The times of rising interest rates is beckoning. That means a new reality for indebted households,’ notes Johanna Jeansson, a columnist at Dagens Industri, adding that 70 percent of Swedes’ mortgages are currently tied to variable interest rates. That exposure could potentially be catastrophic for tens of thousands of households, finds a new survey by brokerage firm Svensk Fastighetsförmedling, featured in Dagens Industri. With even small rises in interest rates, tens of thousands of Swedish households would have problems paying their loans.”

“With supply outweighting demand in the current real estate market, only transactions involving wider rooms are taking place, real estate agents said. In Yangon, the majority of such large-size rooms are located in South Okkala township. Rather than buying apartments for investment purposes, most buyers are looking for homes to live in, therefore they are weighing factors such as room size and taking that into account in their decision-making, said U Yan Aung.”

“‘In the past, people bought rooms for speculation or renting out. Nowadays though, land prices have stabilised, so most buyers in the market now are looking for property to live in. Therefore, they prefer larger-sized rooms, even though the prices are different,’ he said. Previously, there were less developers and more buyers. Now though, there are more developers than buyers. So, developers have to change and adapt to focus on what buyers want.”

“The imbalances in the property market pose significant risks to the overall market in the event of a shock, said Bank Negara Malaysia governor Tan Sri Muhammad Ibrahim. Among the segments in the property market that were highlighted are high-rise condominiums, office space and retail malls. ‘We have raised these issues for more than a year. Exposure of financial sector within this area is within a comfortable level. But if we’re not careful, the oversupply could have a negative impact on the economy,’ he said.”

“Muhammad pointed out that the supply-demand imbalances in the property market has increased since 2015, pointing to the decade-high of unsold residential properties, with the majority of unsold units being in the above RM250,000 price category. For office space, there are also high office vacancy rates, especially in the Klang Valley. BNM’s report shows that the incoming supply of 38 million square feet of office space could exacerbate the glut. According to Muhammad, the office vacancy rate in Klang Valley is projected to reach an all-time high of 32% by 2021, far surpassing levels recorded during the Asian Financial Crisis. Similarly, in the retail space, it is expected that 140 new malls will enter the market across key areas such as Klang Valley, Penang and Johor, which could worsen the oversupply moving forward.”

“Real Estate Institute (REINZ) figures for October show median prices in the Auckland region fell by 3.2 per cent year on year to $850,000 - the biggest fall since December 2010. But within the old Auckland City boundaries (the CBD and central suburbs) the median price has fallen 17 per cent from $1.025m to $850,000 since October 2016. The median in the Auckland CBD is down 24 per cent year on year and in the central suburbs of the Maungakiekie-Tamaki Ward it is down 14 per cent.”

“‘The Auckland Region’s decrease of 3.2 per cent year-on-year is predominantly the result of a large number of apartments being sold in the old Auckland City boundary which has therefore brought the median price down for the entire region,’ said Bindi Norwell, CEO at REINZ. The increase in supply of cheaper apartments was improving affordability without causing a crash in the wider market and was a positive for first home buyers, she said. ‘If you think about Auckland City, it was a median of over $1 million last year and now its $850,000 so it really does show the level of opportunity that has opened up.’”

“They may be in the same city but different pockets of Sydney have emerged poles apart from the recent­ housing boom. CoreLogic figures showed the biggest price falls were upwards of 10 per cent and tended to be in areas with a large supply of new apartments and even more high-rise unit projects­ in the pipeline. The weakest performing area was Eastwood, surrounded by new housing projects, where the median­ apartment price tanked 15.4 per cent. The median apartment price in construction hotbed Sydney Olympic Park is 9.5 per cent lower than a year ago, while unit prices­ in Concord dropped by an average of 7.2 per cent, in Rydalmere and Ermington they fell roughly 7 per cent and near the airport in Hillsdale they dropped 10.5 per cent.”

“Median apartment prices also fell 15 per cent in Forest Lodge and Annandale. SQM ­Research director Louis Christopher said the area around Parramatta was most concerning because it was ‘heavily oversupplied with units.’ ‘Prices are dictated by supply and demand and when buyers have more ­options … there isn’t the same pressure to (offer) more,’ said CoreLogic analyst Cameron Kusher.”




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78 Comments »

Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2017-11-17 09:25:55

Eagle Creek, OR Housing Prices Crater 7% YOY

https://www.movoto.com/eagle-creek-or/market-trends/

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2017-11-17 09:27:56

‘The increase in supply of cheaper apartments was improving affordability without causing a crash in the wider market and was a positive for first home buyers, she said. ‘If you think about Auckland City, it was a median of over $1 million last year and now its $850,000 so it really does show the level of opportunity that has opened up.’

Good old Bindi, always looking at the bright side. Still, I bet some of our resident shack-ulators would think 17% was a crash.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2017-11-17 09:29:26

‘Evidence is mounting that the Swedish capital’s crazy, two-decade-long housing price surge could be levelling off. ‘Prices have dropped 10 to 15 percent since this summer’

Is that leveling? Sounds kinda crator.

Comment by BlackSwandive
2017-11-17 10:09:20

Yeah, that’s MAJOR CRATER. House prices are historically very sticky on the way down, so generally it takes years to see those sorts of price declines. 15% since summer? Look out below….

 
Comment by SFMF
2017-11-17 10:56:31

Sweden is also in the midst of a crime/rape epidemic. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the recent muslim arrivals. For 100 years Sweden was one of the safest countries in the world. Then muslims started showing up and all of a sudden crime increased exponentially. Must be Trump’s fault.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-16/crime-wave-engulfs-sweden-as-fraud-sexual-offences-reach-record

Comment by Apartment 401
2017-11-17 12:17:22

It is illegal to even discuss this in Western Europe.

This is the future that “progressives” want for the USA.

Comment by SFMF
2017-11-17 12:57:29
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Comment by oxide
2017-11-17 17:39:18

Young women are also subject to harassment to a greater extent, the council said. They survey contains no answers as to why a certain type of crime increases, and analysis is needed to improve understanding of the reasons for the increase, it said.

They are lying. They know full well young women are more suspect. Invading hordes — everyone from prehistoric man tribes, to the Ancients, to Prima Nocte, to today’s migrants — view young women as trophies and fertile babymakers for their particular cause. This has been the case for thousands, if not millions, of years.

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Comment by BlueSkye ⚓
2017-11-18 02:15:16

“They are lying.”

That’s the trouble with political correctness imposed by the globalists.

 
 
 
 
Comment by SW
2017-11-17 13:31:27

70% of swedish home loans are ARMs. This won’t end good.

Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 14:02:53

Fixed-rate loans are less common outside the US.

Comment by In Colorado
2017-11-17 14:37:47

And when they are offered, they are not 30 year loans.

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Comment by cedarapple
2017-11-17 15:37:51

I believe that loans in Sweden (and in Europe generally) are recourse debt. They will not find it so easy to walk away as we do here in the US, where we have Fannie and Freddie to take the hit.

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Comment by BlackSwandive
2017-11-17 10:11:53

“If President Trump and congressional Republicans have their way, homeownership in California will become less attractive…”

I don’t know about others, but this whole capping of the mortgage interest deduction at $500k is a joke. Just get rid of it or keep it, one or the other. This doesn’t excite me in the least.

Comment by Ben Jones
2017-11-17 10:49:09

It exposes the REIC hypocrisy about “affordable housing”, to the extent they had to change their message:

‘In a high-priced state where we’ve already got a shortage of homes for sale, this simply traps people in their homes longer. Fewer people will move and that will just exacerbate the home shortage’

We’ll take our chances Steve. BTW, you can’t deduct losses on your shack. Sacre bleu!

If these markets are soooo red hot, what’s the worry? Another thing I’ve noticed: in places like Nashville, prices are going down when months inventory is around 3. Hmmm, maybe something going on there with relisting?

Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 11:00:13

Fewer people will move and that will just exacerbate the home shortage’

Bullsh*t.

The greater limits on the tax-free gains when you sell a home may slow the pace of musical chairs (moving from one home to another), which will lower the commissions that brokers earn, but it won’t do a thing to the overall supply of housing relative to the people who want to live in such housing.

Same number of chairs, same number of people, slower pace of music.

Lots of hand wringing from lots of groups who are finally getting their government cheese stripped away. F’ them.

Comment by oxide
2017-11-17 12:43:31

+1. There will be a shortage of housing because people won’t move? Where does he think these people are going to move TO? A van down by the river?

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Comment by SW
2017-11-17 13:37:06

Maybe they will go live in a van down by the river.

Classic Chris Farley

https://youtu.be/Xv2VIEY9-A8

 
 
Comment by octal77
2017-11-17 12:45:39

Exactly like stockbrokers who call you trying to get you to sell out of one stock and reinvest in another.

They could care less about you, they just want the commission $$.

Bunch of thieves.

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Comment by SFMF
2017-11-17 12:55:52

Do people still use stockbrokers? I kind of assumed they went away like travel agents and elevator operators.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 13:26:22

I got a call from one the other day. First time ever. Does that mean I’ve “made it”? Or they think I’m a sucker?

 
Comment by octal77
2017-11-17 13:32:07

The one I have is now called a “customer relationship manager”

I suppose the term “stockbroker” is so 1999.

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2017-11-17 14:51:13

“Meanwhile, he thinks he’s getting s*** rich, which he is–on paper–but you and me, the brokers, we’re taking home cold hard cash.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM6exo00T5I

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2017-11-17 14:52:39

It’s “wealth management adviser” now.

 
 
 
Comment by BlackSwandive
2017-11-17 12:12:00

Yeah, I guess from that angle it’s nice, but I was thinking from the actual tax standpoint. There’s not much teeth in it at all. Most people buy houses which are less than $500k so it’s a big ol’ nothingburger insofar as I’m concerned. I want it to go away entirely. ZILCH.

 
 
 
Comment by SFMF
2017-11-17 10:53:00

““If President Trump and congressional Republicans have their way, homeownership in California will become less attractive…”

A day in the life of a Democrat:

10:00am TAX THE RICH!! KILL THE RICH!! EAT THE RICH!!

10:01am How dare you take away SALT AND MID deductions from rich CA and NY home owners? When we mean kill the rich we mean the o

10:02am TAX THE RICH!! KILL THE RICH!! EAT THE RICH!!

Comment by Ben Jones
2017-11-17 10:57:15

There’s also that: it exposed the hypocrisy of these so-called progressives.

Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 11:17:28

I sat at lunch with a guy who in one breath said that he thought the Feds should tax him more, but in the next breath didn’t think the SALT deduction should be taken away (which would result in him being taxed more).

While better than nothing, I’m not a huge fan of the reform…I think it could have been so much better.

1. Equalize cap gains and ordinary income rates (with basis in capital investments adjusted for inflation);
2. Eliminate automatic step up in basis on death;
3. No estate tax.
4. Take away any/all corporate welfare.
5. Eliminate gaping RE holes, like the MID, 1031 exchanges, no tax on home sale gains.

Ruthlessly fair.

Wage earners get a major tax cut.

Those who get inheritances no longer get to avoid taxes that daddy/mommy never paid.

The Gates’/Brin’s/Bezos’s of the world (who didn’t invest anything in their companies, but got wealthy off of others’ investments) effectively pay ordinary rates (as do their heirs), since they have no basis to inflate.

Those who invest capital pay a lower tax rate the longer their investment horizon (providing incentives for longer-term investment, which is great).

No more shenanigans to subjectively value assets in order to avoid taxes (estate tax schemes), when you turn the asset to cash, you pay tax on the gains. Objectively calculated. CPAs and estate planning attorneys will scream–less work for them.

The biggest issue is the inflation adjustment…which adds complication. HOWEVER, brokerages are now required to track basis…so…they could add in the adjustment to their basis tracking. If you are lazy and don’t want to adjust for inflation, and just pay tax on your nominal (not real) gains, well, that’s on you.

Comment by SFMF
2017-11-17 11:58:06

How about this radical idea?

1. Get rid of every single deduction.

2. Everyone gets $50K tax free.

3. 10% tax on the first $100K taxable income, then 25% on everything above $100K. All income is treated the same way, W2 income, investment income, interest, rental income, whatever.

Everyone can literally do their taxes in 30 seconds.

But the downside of course hundreds of thousands of lawyers, accountants and lobbyists would be out of a job. And that cannot happen. After all who will fund re-election campaigns?

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Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 13:28:51

Your idea and mine aren’t that far off…but for the inflation of basis for investment.

I fundamentally think you should be taxed on REAL gains, not nominal gains. But other than that, I’d be totally on board.

 
Comment by Professor 🐻
2017-11-17 13:39:14

Bye-bye tax preparation industry…

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2017-11-17 15:06:06

I like Rental Watch’s or SFMF’s plan over current proposal. Wish I could vote for either of them.

In my view, the best things in the current proposal are the elimination of deductability of state/local taxes, capping MID (wish it was gone completely, but that’s probably a non-starter politically), and the doubling of standard deduction. I alos like capping deductability of interest and the excise tax on offshore cashflow transfers (we’ll see if that one survives). The later is not discussed much, but it would go a long way to starting a process by which multinationals shift taxes abroad in order to get out of paying taxes. It’s fundamentally unfair to have businesses paying vastly different tax rates based on their ability to creatively transfer profits and use tax strategy.

Congress and senate have to address senator Johnson’s valid points about partnership and S-corp having unequal treatment relative to C-corps.

 
Comment by Montana
2017-11-17 15:09:27

People who use retail tax prep could do their now, but don’t. They need the handholding, and want the advance against their refund, NOW.

Talking about some pretty dim bulbs with not much income.

 
Comment by BlueSkye ⚓
2017-11-17 15:22:59

“you should be taxed on REAL gains, not nominal gains…”

An allusion to a much bigger problem that gets no traction.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 17:18:42

BTW, I wish Trump would issue one more executive order, and then burn his executive order pen.

And that would be requiring all members of the House and Senate to do their own taxes…by hand. You can use a calculator, but you must show your work.

Do debates about who pays what, or how much, or what deductions exist or not. The starting point should be “eating what you kill” in terms of complexity.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 17:23:03

An allusion to a much bigger problem that gets no traction.

Of course, the steady debasement of our currency. The trick is to make it seem small, so that in 20 years, your dollar only goes 2/3 as far–and you didn’t even notice along the way.

But as long as that is the reality, I will never support a tax plan that equalizes LTCG and ordinary rates without taking this debasement of currency into account.

 
Comment by redmondjp
2017-11-18 22:39:37

The tax plan will NEVER become simplified, don’t you get it?

Why (and I’m being dead serious here)?

What is the percentage of lawyers in both houses of Congress?

It’s scary high. And they will do nothing that will hurt their industry. The tax code is necessarily complicated in order to keep millions of tax attorneys and preparers employed.

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2017-11-19 09:34:32

The accountants and CPAs I used to work with would always quip that so-called tax reform should be renamed “Lawyers, Tax Preparers, and Accountants Full Employment Act.”

 
 
Comment by junior_kai
2017-11-17 12:02:25

Steyer just came out against the tax cut “for the rich”. Guess which tribe he’s in? This country has gone so far down the drain that “the rich” is now anyone who pays taxes - which is a declining population by the day. Marx would be so proud.

Oh, and I forgot from my list yesterday “comedian” CK Louis - yep, one of (((them))). Amy Schumer too - but she’s female, and only into her own family members apparently. Havent heard much from her uncle Senator Chucky lately, have we?

Can people not see how perverts and thieves with a common background have taken over this country - look at the filth coming out of hollyweird - they havent had an original thought in decades - maybe because it wasn’t under their total control back then, but now its just rehashing old tv shows and movies (magnum p.i., really?) featuring ultra violence and occult imagery throughout. Vigilant citizen breaks down a lot of this pretty well.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2017-11-17 10:53:03

I just got this in an email:

“October 2017 housing prices and sales continued climbing in the greater Flagstaff region. The median sale price this October came in at $376K up 9% from a year ago. The average price paid per-square-foot was $206 up 8% and the highest since 2007 when the average was $221 psf. There were 119 houses to have sold which is up 13%, making it the busiest October in 13 years. In addition, the sales pace has picked up as well with the average number of days on the market for a house to have sold and closed escrow being 107, which is the fastest pace since 2005. Low mortgage rates are helping power this market. A 30 year fixed rate with 5% down (and real good credit) is still hanging around the 3.75% range.”

I’m starting to get Flagstaff foreclosure listings emailed to me as well.

Comment by taxpayer
2017-11-17 11:27:09

$221 psf in Flaggstaff ?

dude

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2017-11-17 12:27:08

Now they tell us!

Renting is better than owning to build wealth — if you’re disciplined to invest as well
Published: Nov 17, 2017 10:40 a.m. ET
Getty Images
A sign advertising an open house is posted outside a home for sale in Fairfax, California.
By Shawn Langlois
Social-media editor

Millennials, take note: If you’re looking to build up your nest egg, home ownership isn’t really all it’s cracked up to be. In fact, a new study published on Thursday shows that renting may very well be the best way to go about it.

The numbers, crunched by Florida Atlantic University, Florida International University and the University of Wyoming, determined that the property appreciation most homeowners expect doesn’t necessarily stack up in terms of wealth building.

Hence, FAU economist and co-author of the study Ken Johnson says that while the American Dream is alive and well, it needs a revision.

“When considering buying and building wealth through equity appreciation versus renting and reinvesting in a portfolio of stocks and bonds, property appreciation does not change the results,” he said. “On average, renting and reinvesting wins in terms of wealth creation regardless of property appreciation, because property appreciation is highly correlated with gains in the traditional financial asset classes of stocks and bonds.”

Comment by Ben Jones
2017-11-17 12:35:48

I saw this article:

‘because property appreciation is highly correlated with gains in the traditional financial asset classes of stocks and bonds’

And something posted in the comment yesterday:

‘Not only were the moneyed special interests saved from all of their losses, they’ve just seen the greatest increase in wealth in the history of the world.’

Have we? It could be argued shack prices go up with wages. Stock prices probably go up with productivity. But shack prices have exceeded wages by a bunch for many years. And do stock prices reflect more profitable companies?

It get’s back to the inability to print wealth. We have seen the biggest increase in money creation in history since 2009. But not wealth. It’s an illusion just like before. And when it goes poof many people will say it was an illusion. Along with “everybody knew” blah, blah. One of the weekend topics coming up will be along these lines.

Comment by OneAgainstMany
2017-11-17 15:09:26

It seems like current stock prices are highly correlated to ultra low interest rates. Separating the froth in the stock market due to abnormally low interest rates and the strength of the overall economy is difficult in this environment.

 
Comment by BlueSkye ⚓
2017-11-17 15:32:25

You can only print wealth transfer.

 
Comment by Neuromance
2017-11-17 20:01:49

Ben Jones: It get’s back to the inability to print wealth.

Indeed - it’s redistribution. “Expert redistribution”. Stuffing a ton of cash into the financial sector, jacking up asset prices, sparking bubbles. Ostensibly to generate a wealth effect, but really, who knows.

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I keep thinking, “The greatest wealth transfer in history.”

Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 20:26:18

I had this discussion a few years back with my very left leaning MIL. I tried to explain that everything that was happening under Obama was making rich people even richer.

She didn’t get it…and still doesn’t.

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Comment by oxide
2017-11-17 17:47:52

Ha, I’d like to see their assumptions. I bet they faked it to make renting come out on top.

And who was paying three universities’ worth of grad students for this research? What a waste of $$. It’s already been figured out with the New York Times rent vs. buy calculator (which has since been dumbed down :sad: ).

Comment by Karen
2017-11-17 18:52:59

This entire economy is geared towards the false wealth of selling each other houses (and you are posting on a blog dedicated to discussing this), and your conspiracy theory is that these three universities were paid by someone to fake data that renting is more sensible than owning?

That’s a doozy, even coming from you.

Comment by BlueSkye ⚓
2017-11-18 02:37:09

A doozy, but consistent with Oxy’s long held assumptions. Two of them are that houses and rent will always go up. This is how the NYT calculator led her to discover the “borrow to generate wealth” strategy.

There was no check box for “Is this a bubble”.

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Comment by Mafia Blocks
2017-11-18 04:56:03

CDC….. Crazy Donk Craterton.

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Comment by Neuromance
2017-11-17 20:07:49

It’s really interesting, this is the 2nd article I’ve seen like this (”renting better than owning for wealth building”) in two days. The first one was reported by Diana Olick, someone with deep links into the RE sector: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/16/homeownership-doesnt-build-wealth-study-finds.html

Could be a coincidence, maybe not, something to watch going forward. Very unusual. Surprising that Olick would be reporting it.

 
Comment by rms
2017-11-18 10:18:49

I own a modest house, and I don’t buy the author’s thesis.

 
 
Comment by Apartment 401
2017-11-17 12:28:32
Comment by jeff
2017-11-17 19:23:17

“One family waited months during the summer to have their air conditioning fixed.”

My last Deadbeat Landlord told me I was going to have to wait about a week for his “buddy” who had sold and installed the POS AC unit to come and look at it to see what was wrong when it went out during the month of August in SE Florida.

The tech from the reputable company I called had it fixed by about 10 PM that night. He asked me if I knew how much the Landlord had paid for the unit and I told him he had bragged about only paying $3,500.00 for both units. The dude shook his head and said the AC guy had probably only paid $1,500.00 for both units and made $2000.00 on the 3 hour swap. (Get what ya pay for)

The AC company charged me a night call charge and time and a half which I gladly paid and deducted from my next months rent. Surprisingly the dumb@ss LL never bitc#ed about it.

 
 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2017-11-17 15:27:52

Big jump up in housing starts:

US housing starts total 1.290 million in Oct, vs 1.185 million starts expected

“U.S. home building jumped to a one-year high in October likely as disruptions caused by recent hurricanes in the South faded and communities in the region started replacing houses damaged by flooding.”

“Housing starts surged 13.7 percent to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 1.29 million units, the Commerce Department said on Friday. That was the highest level since October 2016. September’s sales pace was revised up to 1.135 million units from the previously reported 1.127 million units.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/17/us-housing-starts-oct-2017.html

 
Comment by azdude
2017-11-17 17:18:20

everything goes up with CREDIT. once credit tightens sh@t hits the fan.

Comment by BlueSkye ⚓
2017-11-18 02:41:09

How is that hitting the credit limit thing working out for you?

 
 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2017-11-17 17:24:12

crime_is_uncontained

“Mortgage Fraud, Perjury Charges Filed Against Lonsdale Realtor”

http://www.southernminn.com/lonsdale_area_news_review/news/article_3438d794-831d-5286-a3d4-2b4e34a3dac3.html

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 17:29:53

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/17/state-licensing-regulations-burden-low-income-workers-study-says.html?recirc=taboolainternal

We talked about this as one of the Koch’s pet peeves. This is shockingly bad…

Comment by BlackSwandive
2017-11-17 21:37:28

“In the 1950s, 1 in about 20 workers needed a license to work. Now, it’s 1 in 4 Americans, according to a new report.”

Yep. And fees are through the roof on everything. Everywhere you turn, there’s a charge in life. It didn’t used to be this bad by any means.

Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 21:47:44

And nobody wants air traffic controllers to not be regulated. But a license to list a property for rent? Really?

Comment by BlackSwandive
2017-11-17 21:51:44

Exactly. The thing is, it’s not about the public good, it’s about the states getting FEES. It’s really disgusting, and my state is the highest in the nation per that article, with 77 of the 102 occupations requiring them. The average is 54, and Wyoming only has 26.

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Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 22:08:42

The thing is, it’s not about the public good, it’s about the states getting FEES

And it’s about protecting those who currently have such jobs.

 
Comment by Karen
2017-11-18 12:07:05

The thing is, it’s not about the public good, it’s about the states getting FEES

And it’s about protecting those who currently have such jobs.

And it’s about social engineering–creating a society in which you are not allowed to do anything without official permission from your betters.

 
 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2017-11-17 22:04:03

I kind of think that these types of stories are not that meaningful. Just saying, “We have too many jobs that require a license” doesn’t really advance dialogue much. What would be better is if someone put forth a list of jobs that currently require a license that could, in theory, be unlicensed occupations, and then let’s have a discussion about the pros and cons of that action. I put these types of these types of rants in the category of “there is too much regulation.” Unless you get into specifics, it’s not very productive.

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Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-17 22:24:40

How about you do a little bit of digging deeper to see if the story is BS, or has details rather than complain that the article isn’t written how you would like?

Go to the actual study, and you can see a breakdown for each state. They list each job, the cost and time required for licensing. For instance, Louisiana licenses more lower-income jobs than any other state…71.

On the list:

Interior Designer
Pest Control Applicator
Home Entertainment Installer
Barber
Cosmetologist
Manicurist
Massage Therapist
Auctioneer
Teacher Assistant
Vegetation Pesticide Handler
Floor Sander Contractor
Gaming Cage Worker
Gaming Dealer
Gaming Supervisor
Slot Key Person
Florist
Bartender
Tree Trimmer
Locksmith
Landscape Worker
Weigher (WTF is this?)
Shampooer
Travel Guide
Fisher
Animal Breeder

There are a lot more, but I chose a set that seemed unnecessary. It is telling how many states have license requirements for these.

Home Entertainment Installer? Only 3 states require licensing.

Barber? 50 states.
Cosmetologist? 51 (must include DC)
Manicurist? 50
Makeup Artist? 36

The list goes on, and on.

 
Comment by tj
2017-11-17 22:33:38

oam, how does rent seeking cause income inequality?

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2017-11-18 08:50:30

Thanks for highlighting those professions. I read the article, but didn’t see a link to the actual study. Looks like I didn’t hunt enough.

I think home entertainment installer, florist, auctioneer, shampooer, travel guide, and tree trimmer could be unlicensed.

There are quite a few on this list that I see a compelling reason for having a license to enforce standards of safety and competency. I think it is instructive to look not only at what professions require licensing, but the rigor of the licensing process. I remember when I changed careers to become an RN, the hospital I work at required a food handler permit for all caregivers. I hadn’t needed that since my high school days. I did an online option and I was actually surprised at how effective and efficient the training was. The fee was something like $20, so pretty reasonable. The whole process gave me greater confidence in the county’s operations and dining out in general in this area. Obviously, not every local or state government is run as well as I believe ours is.

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2017-11-18 09:12:22

Just looked it up for my state (Utah). The institute ranks iron/steel contractors as the most burdened licensed profession. The fee is $549 and to sit for the exam requires 4 years experience. Doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. Their job description is listed as this: “Iron and steel workers, also known as steel fabricators or welders, raise, place and unite iron or steel girders, columns and other structural members to form completed structures or structural frameworks.”

Given that I’m always reading about collapsing buildings in 3rd world countries that tragically kill many people, I think I feel okay about iron/steel contractors having a pretty rigorous licensing if they are going to be putting up the structural framework of large, multi-story buildings. I feel like my original post is still largely on point. Rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water (e.g. licensing is bad, we need to reduce licensing!), figure out which specific licenses are overly burdensome and create no compelling public interest and target those.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-18 12:40:32

Great. You picked one where certification makes sense–when life/public safety matters.

The point though is that unless there are meaningful public safety concerns, these certifications serve as barriers to people working.

So, what if you are a terrible bartender? Guess what, you probably won’t last long in the job.

What about someone who sands hardwood floors? Guess what, word will get out that your work is crappy, and you’ll be out of business. Making sure hardwood floors are correctly sanded and stained is not a vital government activity.

If you want to give as many people as possible an opportunity to work, you need to remove all unnecessary barriers to them working.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-11-18 12:53:08

I don’t think anyone said that all licensing is bad. The article simply pointed out that 1 in 4 jobs requires a license, which is huge growth over the past 60 years.

Do you know what enforces standards of competency?

The market.

Public safety is a different matter. However, you must also realize that even with licensed contractors, properties typically also undergo regular government inspections before they can be occupied, right? At what point is it simply government overreach under the guise of public safety?

BTW, you are engaging in what John Oliver called “whataboutism”. Rather than addressing the clear government overreach in much of this licensing, you are instead saying but what about the licensing that DOES matter?

J Oliver’s criticism was regarding Trump, but it can equally be applied everywhere. Rather than say, “Yes, Hillary Clinton is crooked”, folks would say “but what Trump’s alleged racism?”

I was hoping that Oliver might actually shine a bright light on the corruption at the DNC (since that had recently come to light), but I suppose lampooning both sides (when justified) is simply too much to ask.

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2017-11-18 16:28:21

I would disagree that I engaged in whataboutism. I looked at the list and, according to the institute, the most onerous licensed profession was the one I addressed. I would rather see a report done on which current licensed professions can be done away with, which restrictions can be eased, and some clear criteria for why.

I also fundamentally agree that some of these on the list can probably go. But just because it was 1 in 20 in 1950s and is now 1 in 4 doesn’t speak to me. Maybe there were too few professions licensed in the past. Maybe now we’ve overshot it. My nuanced point was just let’s sit down and have a discussion over what exactly goes into determining which professions need a license and make sure that there are compelling reasons. If a profession does need to be licensed, let’s make the process the least restrictive as possible and ensure fees and structure meet some reasonable standard.

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2017-11-18 16:31:47

By the way, I think I might want to keep bartender as a licensed occupation IF licensing means some education and assurance that a bartender will act prudently to limit drunk driving and preventing sexual assault via inebriation.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by azdude
2017-11-17 18:39:21

how do u folks like the bubble economy? get on the right side of the trade. Do the opposite of what corporate mouth pieces are telling u.

Dont be a sissy and cover your shorts.

 
Comment by cactus
2017-11-17 19:53:03

Do the opposite of what corporate mouth pieces are telling u.”

whats that work harder they really appreciate it

According to zillow my house went up last month more than 4 years of RSU “we really value your dedication and hard work” crap bonus that gets taxed like income and you have to wait 4 years to get it all.

Even the directors are complaining about the VP’s

Comment by azdude
2017-11-18 07:50:18

why is it that some people will gladly step up to the plate and overpay and play along and others resist?

I think one of the biggest bonds people have here is that they feel like they are getting hosed by grossly inflated prices and lack of value.

 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2017-11-18 07:31:34

Englewood, CO Housing Prices Plunge 7% YOY On Cratering Housing Demand Nationally

https://www.movoto.com/englewood-co/market-trends/

 
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