January 1, 2018

2007: From Start To Finish, A Year Of Slump

To commemorate the 10 year anniversary of 2007, my post from December 31 of that year. The San Francisco Chronicle reports from California. “Beaming with pride, Johnnie Pitts stacked up piles of legal documents on his living room floor the Wednesday before Christmas. The San Francisco Muni driver had just returned from having his signature notarized on agreements that permanently modify his once-exorbitant mortgage to a reasonable interest rate, allowing him to keep the three-bedroom bungalow on Oakland’s MacArthur Boulevard.”

“Pitts started off financially unsophisticated, but he now shows a shrewd grasp of how the system works. ‘If you think your house is all yours, just miss a payment or property tax bill, and you’ll find out who it really belongs to,’ he said. ‘We’re not homeowners; we’re renting from the banks and investors.’”

“Earlier this year when he realized his mortgage was slated to reset to well over $4,000 a month - the same as his take-home pay - Pitts started speed-dialing his loan servicer, banking giant Chase, asking for a loan modification.”

“At the same time, he boosted his income by racking up overtime - an extra 10-hour day every week - to catch up on some missed mortgage payments and property taxes. ‘My family and co-workers said, ‘Why don’t you just do a short sale?’ but this is my house. This is the major purchase of my life,’ he said.”

“Pitts’ monthly mortgage will now be just shy of $2,800. Property taxes and insurance add another $700 a month. The $3,500 monthly total is still quite steep for a man whose base income is about $4,000 a month, although he can earn another $1,000 or so through overtime.”

“Does Pitt really want to continue working six days a week to keep a house that is now valued at about $330,000 - $100,000 less than he paid for it? He insists that he does.”

“‘When it comes to renting, it’s just cash in the trash,’ he said. ‘You can’t win no way when you’re renting.’”

“‘I’m going to modify my lifestyle,’ he said. ‘I shop at the dollar store; I buy in bulk and on sale. If push comes to shove, I may have to get a roommate.’”

“How will he celebrate his birthday this year? ‘I’ll be working, the same as on Christmas,’ he said. ‘It’s time and a half on the holidays. I’ll take the money. Renters have a different mentality; they can party.’”

“Jeff Hahn let out a small sigh when a reporter called to tell him that his Fairfield house had been sold at a foreclosure auction two days earlier. ‘So that’s it,’ he said.”

“Hahn and his wife walked away from the house this summer because the $5,000 monthly payments were as much as their take-home pay. They put it on the market and moved to Los Angeles, where Hahn had a good job lined up.”

“They started off listing it for sale at $575,000, then dropped the price steadily over several months without attracting any buyers.”

“‘The last time I talked to our Realtor, her best advice was to try to sell it for around $350,000 to $400,000,’ Hahn said. ‘I’ve talked to friends who still live up there; there are six or seven houses just like mine for sale in my neighborhood from people in foreclosure.’”

“Hahn bought the four-bedroom Colonial in 2004 for $495,000. He later took out a home equity loan to help finance his business of importing high-end auto parts. His adjustable-rate mortgage jumped from $2,200 a month to $3,700 last September.”

“The couple used credit cards to make the mortgage payments while they tried to refinance. In March, the Hahns finally were approved for a refinance at $570,000 with an interest rate of 10.5 percent. But they never made a payment.”

“Jeff Hahn said they accepted the pricey loan because they were desperate to salvage their credit rating and hoped to sell the house quickly. As they rebuild their lives in Southern California, the financial reverberations of losing the house linger, through credit-card debt and lower credit scores.”

“‘We literally are living paycheck to paycheck,’ Hahn said.”

“During the months of struggling to keep up with their mortgage payments, they ran up more than $16,000 in credit-card debt, Hahn said. Once they stopped paying the mortgage, his credit score plummeted from 710 to 490.”

“Tom Kelly, a spokesman for Chase, which was the servicer on Hahn’s loan, said the property reverted to Chase at the Dec. 17 foreclosure auction for $474,750 - far less than the $570,000 loan balance and the unpaid fees and penalties.”

“Lenders generally set minimum bids at foreclosure auctions equal to the amount of outstanding debt. Kelly said he was not certain why it went for a lesser amount, but said he could speculate that ‘given the problems with home prices, now the bank is happy to get less than (is owed) and walk away.’”

“Kelly said the Hahns’ case was straightforward because they made no payments after refinancing and had only minimal contacts with Chase. ‘If a person has never made a mortgage payment, that’s very clear-cut that we’ve seen no good faith effort from that person,’ he said.”

“After his story was told in The Chronicle, Jeff Hahn said he briefly became a ‘poster child’ for foreclosures - appearing on radio shows, getting a call from People magazine. But the couple also was the target of some vitriol by readers on The Chronicle’s Web site. For that reason, they declined to be photographed.”

“‘The number of hate comments we got just floored me,’ Jeff Hahn said. ‘This wasn’t something we chose to have happen to us. I just don’t get how these people can judge me like this and think we completely took advantage of the system. The system took advantage of us. We’re the ones losing our house; we won’t be able to rebound from this.’”

The Lompoc Record. “Arguably the most talked-about issue in 2007 on the Central Coast - indeed, throughout the state and the nation - was housing, particularly the downward spiral of prices and sales.”

“A complex mixture of factors squeezed local real estate, driving home prices down and leaving a glut of new and existing homes on the market as foreclosures rose amid the subprime mortgage debacle.”

“In San Luis Obispo County, a median-priced home cost $454,840 in November. That was down 17.1 percent from the median price in October and 14.6 percent from November 2006, when the price was $532,890, and well below the record $605,158 set in November 2005.”

“The association said November 2007 sales in San Luis Obispo County fell 17.7 percent from October’s level and 28.7 percent from November 2006.”

“In mid-October, a total of 756 existing single-family homes and condominiums were on the market in the Santa Maria-Orcutt area, according to the Santa Maria Association of Realtors. Particularly troubling was the fact that nearly 16 percent of those - or 118 homes - had been lost to foreclosure.”

The Tribune. “The North County median declined to $469,000 from $490,000, a 4.3 percent decrease. In December, the county median was $472,500, down from $529,000 the same month a year ago.”

“‘If you stand back and look at the market, there’s still job growth, attractive interest rates and unemployment is low,’ said Jim Liptak of Country Real Estate in Paso Robles and president-elect of the California Association of Realtors. ‘But you’re still seeing great difficulty in the market, a lot of it caused by the (subprime) mortgage crisis.’”

“Liptak said the housing slump actually started in 2005, the same time record numbers of people jumped into real estate. The oversupply of housing and agents were two things that ‘created almost the perfect storm.’”

“‘Right now, the number of (annual) transactions an agent is doing in California is on average under four. In 2004-05, that figure was 12 to 14,’ Liptak said.”

“There will be winners and losers in the next year, said Kirk Lesh, real estate economist with the UCSB Economic Forecast Project.”

“Renters, for instance, may find that it’s just as costly to rent than to buy, spurring some people to jump into the market, he said. ‘Of course, on the other side of the coin, if you wanted to sell a home now and move, you may not get as much money as you wanted.’”

“Some San Luis Obispo County lenders found that the steady business they enjoyed during the real estate boom had slowed.”

“‘Lenders couldn’t keep doing 100 percent financing and assume that one day (home) values are not going to come down,’ said Leslie VandeWalle, a mortgage broker in San Luis Obispo.”

“‘There are certain people who are doing well, but no one is doing really well in this market,’ said Kyle Allen, a mortgage loan consultant.”

“In November, for example, there were 1,023 trust deeds recorded (includes sales, refinances, home equity loans and construction loans), down from more than an average of 2,000 during the year-earlier period, according to county records.”

“VandeWalle’s firm, which specializes in more traditional loans, started noticing a change when fewer clients sought her services in the latter half of the year. La Casa had been doing about 10 loans every month. Now, they have about four or five, she said.”

“‘We were totally dead for a while,’ she said. ‘We had three months with no escrow closings. Now, now we’re back working again, but loans are harder to make.’”

“In a recent California Association of Mortgage Brokers survey, 41 percent of members said they expected lending standards to further constrict in 2008. In today’s market, potential borrowers with credit scores of less than 680 may find that it’s more difficult or expensive than for borrowers with scores greater than 680.”

“It’s becoming more common for borrowers to provide paychecks, tax returns and bank statements to qualify for a loan. With jumbo loans, potential buyers are asked for 10 percent or more.”

“‘People come to us for loans now that there’s not necessarily a loan product for,’ said Michael Hahlbeck, VP of Mariner Mortgage in Arroyo Grande. ‘I had a client six months ago who could have easily gotten a loan and deserves one. She has good credit and adequate income, but she’s young and has no money for a down payment. She wanted 100 percent financing and would be a success story with it. It bothers me because it would have been a good opportunity for her.’”

The Voice of San Diego. “Where 2006 launched with some optimists downplaying signs of trouble in the county’s housing market, the tenor of real estate shifted to leave such voices in the minority by last New Year’s Eve. And then 2007 proved, from start to finish, a year of slump.”

“‘The problem with the market is, prices got bid up to exceptionally high levels, and this is the back end of that,’ said Chris Thornberg, an economist with Beacon Economics. ‘What we’re seeing is a market in the painful throes of a downturn.’”

“‘I think that basically, this snapshot in time — it’s a real period of unknown,’ said Gary London, a local real estate analyst. ‘We can speculate — ‘this was worse, that was worse’ — but this is just in real uncharted territory.’”

“In 2007, buyers were scared, scarce or both. The number of homes sold each month hit decade lows, month after month. ‘If you look at two houses for sale in the same neighborhood, they’re in competition for the same buyer,’ said Mark Goldman, a local mortgage consultant and broker.”

“When sales activity picked up, it was usually due to an increase in the number of homes sold as repossessed properties or as short sales. And where there were buyers, they paid less for homes than they did last year.”

“Local market consultant Dan Holbrook…recently switched his business from focusing mostly on making mortgages to negotiating short sales and bank-owned deals.”

“‘We, in order to get through this, need to get creative,’ he said. ‘The distressed market is the market. And I’m focused on the distress. I’m almost a distressed real estate evangelist.’”




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97 Comments »

Comment by toby
2018-01-01 08:39:16

several “killing landlord” remarks towards end of last post, I have several houses in Austin area, in my 70s and do good part of upkeep, I told tenants when they moved in I would try to keep rents in line with tax and insurance increases and have actually been slow on that. The city of Austin which always squawks about “affordability” at its meetings has literally doubled the appraisals on some in the past few years w/commensurate tax increases. Still have a large 3-2 w/fireplace renting for under $800 a month, but am in a quandry as the city has doubled appraisal in past three years. Now have a few where at least a half years rents are required just to cover property taxes. Will be selling one of those this year because of the existing structure is getting difficult for me to maintain. Needless to say I do not have high tenant turnover and really feel bad about having to sell one as the tenants are really neat and the house I will be selling has two tenants within a relatively short bike ride to their place of employment. Happy New Year to everyone. PS extremely accurate advisor who called for third party candidate winning presidency many years ago in 2016, has long term sun spot activity pointing to global cooling, moved his household to florida last year and is also calling for a much more challenging stock market this year .

Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-01 09:07:17

‘city has doubled appraisal in past three years. Now have a few where at least a half years rents are required just to cover property taxes’

I’ve seen property taxes double too. Are there twice as many police on the streets? Are the roads redone twice as often? Nope. What “penciled out” for some may not in a very short time. Lots of lip service to affordable housing but not much else.

Comment by MacBeth
2018-01-01 09:16:54

Ben, if that’s the typical landlord is experiencing, then you have a big problem on your hands.

There aren’t enough renters in existence to bail landlords out of doubling property taxes.

The housing industry is indeed in a perilous state.

Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-01 11:22:18

I’m grateful for my landlords’ generous willingness to shoulder the onerous burden of California property taxes for us.

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Comment by GreenEggsAndSpam
2018-01-01 15:55:00

Yep, this year I had my first rent increase in the 8 years I’ve been in my place - from 1K to 1050 thanks to a rise in property taxes. Looking at craigslist the market is really tight right now - and I’m paying probably 50%+ below market rate. RE market is constipated - lots of inventory at the high end which is not moving (1M+), 500K and below are a smattering of 50 yo uninhabitable shacks where the owner likely croaked and the kids just want the cash as they have long since moved elsewhere.

This too, shall pass.

 
Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-01 21:12:41

“RE market is constipated…”

A natural consequence of government intervention in the form of interest rate suppression and a plethora of federally guaranteed mortgages handed out to low income borrowers like candy.

The resulting disequilibrium liquidity dearth shall indeed pass, in due time.

 
 
 
Comment by taxpayer
2018-01-01 10:01:38

gov pay n pensions are supreme !

Comment by palmetto
2018-01-01 13:09:55

That’s exactly what the situation is. Government pay and pensions. That money is going somewhere, but NOT to improvements and infrastructure. It’s really sick.

However, is this “pay more, get less” situation limited to real estate? Not by any means. The US Postal service is hiking its rates again this year. At a time when oil prices are at a low. However, as a US citizen paying the freight, you should know that people in China pay lower rates to ship their crap than you do. That’s right. It’s cheaper for a Chinese citizen to get something delivered to your neighbor across the street than it is for you. E-packet, baybeeeee!

And apparently, it’s cheaper for an Indian GP doctor to set up a practice in the US than it is for an American doctor. Why is that?

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Comment by MacBeth
2018-01-01 09:11:23

I am one of those who commented yesterday re: landlords.

Perhaps it is time for you to sell your properties and get out of the landlord business.

If taxes are chewing up to one-half of your annual take, and you are hesitant to raise rents, what are you left with?

As you know all too well, to assume that renters will be able (or want) to absorb the 20-30% hikes needed for you to break even is a mighty chancy proposition.

I’d sell and get the hell out of dodge. You could sell for a perceived loss today (undercut the market by 10-20%) and still come out way ahead, assuming you bought the properties more than 3 years ago.

Comment by toby
2018-01-01 09:43:07

Thanks for the comment….sale is a balancing act, got to look at tax liability vs passing on to kiddos tax free as getting relatively long in tooth.(77th birthday soon)….blessed w/military retirement from 1980(wasn’t sure of that during my 3 years off and on in vietnam) / s.s. for both myself and wife so cash flow is currently not critical. Getting up and down ladders is tho. Ben’s points about use of tax revenues is right on……Austin loves to spend an inordinate amount of $$$$ on feel good projects like dedicated bike lanes where I have yet to see a bike ridden. ( I am very pro bike and 50+ daughter is pres of over 100 member bike club near Houston, just a lot of routes make absolutely no sense, and mega bucks per mile) Been reading this site for years but just started to comment……

Comment by MacBeth
2018-01-01 10:26:37

I’m not in the landlord business, so my comments may be irrelevant - take them as you will.

Cheap money has distorted the hell out of real estate, that much is obvious. Thus, thinking about things in the conventional way may not be what the doctor ordered.

Note what “taxpayer” just stated - it’s all about the pensions. Those pension costs are a main driver of your doubling property taxes, and you’re hoping to pass that cost your end users (renters). Renters can rent from someone else, or live in a hotel or their car. (It’s an interesting phenomenon that people earning $40-$100k are living in their cars.)

You do not have those options.

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Comment by MacBeth
2018-01-01 10:32:56

Toby-

Your job in life is not to pass money along to your kids tax free. Or with taxes due. Your kids need to make their own money (I’m sire they do) and scratch out their own existence, as it were.

I’m an outlier in that I find passing money and assets along to future generations to be somewhat immoral. (And, no to any you liberals out there - I do NOT believe that money ought to be redistributed. Redistribution is both highly unethical and immoral).

Rather than hoarded, some of that money and assets should be put back into the free market, where it can generate additional wealth via R8D or investment.

Anyway.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2018-01-01 11:35:57

Why not ask me my parents transferred the 2 fam house to us about 20 years ago, the thinking was if we ever had a tough time we could have a place to live or some rental income to start over again. or supplement SS

But when it comes to cash they had fun spent a lot on trips enjoyed their lives together father passed in 06 mom still doing ok, still getting $1700 2 bed full use of attic storage back porch, nice couple could easily get a few hundred more for the downstairs 3 bedroom when she lives now plus we have a family room in the basement plus full basement storage

Easily rentable waking distance to the Elementary and High school Middle school a little farther but doable

 
Comment by oxide
2018-01-01 14:31:30

You know, as the HBB poster who constantly advocates that the unemployed be forced to read and write proper English to earn their benefits, you would do better to spend a little more time writing and editing your own posts to resemble proper English.

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-01 14:41:26

Hey Donk

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2018-01-02 07:18:23

LOL, +1 oxy. Lessee, comma splice in the first sentence, several run-on sentences that don’t even get the benefit of a comma splice, etc etc etc.

 
Comment by Tarara Boomdea
2018-01-02 12:38:52

I’ve been using this lately, not that I always use their corrections in casual posts:
Grammarly plug-in for Firefox
Elsewhere in the site it says it’s also available for Safari and Chrome.

They also have a plagiarism checker and citation generator (premium).

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2018-01-01 12:21:54

toby,
Thank you for your comments and I understand completely. God bless decent landlords and god bless decent tenants as well.

For the most part, when I’ve rented, I’ve been lucky to have decent landlords. My only complaint over the years has been the deferred maintenance issue. However, I’ve lived with the situation in cases where the rent is reasonable. I figure it is a trade-off.

And also, I have learned that, in these times, the 30 day notice to vacate is, in many cases, unreasonable, because finding a decent place within budget is way more difficult than it used to be, thanks to a screwed up housing market. We needed almost every bit of 60 days to locate another place and move.

Our LL wasn’t leveling with us and my guess is, they were trying to be “nice” by dropping hints and even outright lying rather than being upfront about their needs and timeline. So it built up to a boiling point of frustration on their part. LOL, we never even got a formal notice to vacate or even a statement of intention. All of a sudden the workmen showed up and the LL came down and started talking to realtors and stuck a sign in the yard. One of the weirdest things I’ve ever experienced.

To be fair, the LL was dealing with two issues not of their making, nor of ours, and we had to find out the real situation through a realtor friend of mine and another resident of the community.

With that said, you have to do what it right for you as a landlord and property owner. The only piece of advice I would give a landlord from a tenant’s point of view is to communicate with their tenants and give them enough time to make other arrangements.

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Comment by oxide
2018-01-01 11:01:05

Looks like Toby *is* selling and getting the hell out of Dodge. He just feels bad that he has to force out his tenants.

I suppose you could offer to sell the houses to the tenant at a lower price, but I don’t know if that’s feasible.

BTW, since when can an appraiser in Austin just double an appraisal? Are houses really selling at double what they were three years ago? Can you appeal these appraisals based on lack of support comps — or even get a group together for some kind of class-action? Amazing that some low-pay appraiser can just tax grab like that.

 
 
Comment by taxpayer
2018-01-01 10:13:30

you have to pay taxes someday
re inventors are obsessed w tax liability while stock investors squeeze the trigger when it’s time

Comment by scdave
2018-01-01 11:17:02

you have to pay taxes someday ??

Not on the first 22 million dollars (Thank You Trump for thinking of the poor farmers)…So Toby is correct…Why sell, particularly when you are 77, pay the federal government and the state for their cut (so they can piss it away) when if you just hold on and pass to your kids, your church or whom ever you choose:

TAX FREE !!

Comment by In Colorado
2018-01-01 15:57:02

Yeah, but by Toby’s admission he’s paying half the rent he collects on property taxes. Then there’s insurance and maintenance which has to eat into what’s left. If there is a time when it makes sense to sell, it would be now, as you will get more for it now than down the road after the crash.

It’s not like these houses are cash cows. And if rents fall, they won’t be enough to cover the costs.

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Comment by scdave
2018-01-01 16:10:20

There is a lot that we don’t know about Toby’s circumstances which effects his decision to sell or hold. The fact that he raises the question of being 77 tells me that his tax consequences may be significant.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Anonymous
2018-01-01 15:14:58

I wish I could get a landlord like you! Why don’t the other ones recognize that it’s better to keep a good tenant in your place, with little or no rent increase. Than to gouge that tenant and drive them out with rent increases.

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-01 08:52:35

‘In March, the Hahns finally were approved for a refinance at $570,000 with an interest rate of 10.5 percent. But they never made a payment’

And people wonder why credit gets pulled back.

‘Lenders couldn’t keep doing 100 percent financing and assume that one day (home) values are not going to come down,’ said Leslie VandeWalle, a mortgage broker in San Luis Obispo.’

Is there much difference between 100% and the common 97% today? There’s plenty of 100% financing being done and has been for years.

Comment by Jingle Male
2018-01-01 09:15:43

No lenders are completing loans today where the payment equals 100% of take home pay. The standards are much higher. Just talk to someone buying a home today. Full doc, proof of income and assets.

I am not saying the market balanced, but the risks are much different and substantially lower than 2006.

Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-01 09:20:37

This is 100% LTV we are talking about. I am aware of sales happening with 100% and this has been going on for years. Look up USDA loans, which are targeted at subprime borrowers. “Oh, it’s for those country girls.” Eh, no. It includes many urban areas.

The biggest reason FB’s stop making payments: they owe more than it’s worth. Which proves they were speculating all along.

Comment by S-Crow
2018-01-01 19:52:46

Competely agree with this.

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Comment by MacBeth
2018-01-01 09:22:08

California is indeed a different world.

Risks are substantially lower? Documentation, proof of income and assets constitute higher standards?

Pretty pathetic. Those of you trying to make a living in real estate are going to get burned. Severely. And this time, whistling past the graveyard won’t be enough to address it.

Trump didn’t get elected because people aren’t sick of this type of bullshit.

Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-01 09:34:09

‘Full doc, proof of income and assets’

‘The American dream: How undocumented immigrants buy homes in the U.S.’

‘September 11, 2017′

‘While some undocumented immigrants pay for their homes in cash, others have been able to obtain little-known ITIN mortgages. ITIN stands for individual tax identification number. ITINs were created to enable tax payment by foreign nationals who are not eligible for a social security number but own businesses or assets in the U.S. But since its creation, the program has also been used by undocumented immigrants living in the U.S. Undocumented immigrants can use ITINs to open bank accounts and pay taxes on their U.S. income.’

‘The ITIN loans usually come with a interest rate between 7 and 8 percent — depending on the market. That’s much higher than the typical 30-year-fixed mortgage rate, which is currently around 4 percent.’

‘Undocumented immigrants pay as much as $3.6 billion in property taxes each year, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy which analyzed MPI’s undocumented home ownership data.’

‘The question of what happens in case of deportations has always come up with these type of loans, even before this administration, according to Madiedo. Whatever the circumstances, mortgages have to be paid on a monthly basis or they become delinquent.’

“The typical answer that we get is: ’We’re doing this for our family and our family will figure out how to maintain the payments. Don’t worry about how the payments are going to be made. This is a dream of ours. We’re going to make this happen,’” Madiedo explained.’

Remember when this stuff came out of Freddie Mac a couple years back? They can count IA incomes who rent A ROOM for qualifying. Jose never changes his renting arraignments, right? Or even an aunt who doesn’t live there! Oh, but they signed a “statement.” What difference does “full doc” make when you have this kind of horse hockey going on?

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Comment by Anonymous
2018-01-01 15:20:32

How does someone get an ITIN without showing proof they’re in the country legally?

 
Comment by Montanagal
2018-01-01 16:38:30

The only requirement is that the to can’t get an ssn but must pay taxes.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2018-01-01 23:15:29

How does someone get an ITIN without showing proof they’re in the country legally?

The storefront tax prep places (HR Block, Liberty, etc.) have banners in Spanish saying they can get you an ITIN

 
 
 
Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-01 11:39:50

Subprime is back!

Real Estate #​Economy
Dec 8, 2017 @ 09:00 AM
Are We Headed For Another Foreclosure Crisis?
Forbes Real Estate Council
Post written by Jorge Newbery

Jorge Newbery is on a mission to help Americans crushed by unaffordable debt. CEO - American Homeowner Preservation
Jorge Newbery, Forbes Councils

Almost everyone agrees that the Great Recession was triggered largely by the U.S. housing bubble bursting in 2007. For years beforehand, lenders had been giving out riskier and riskier mortgages, including waiving or lowering down payment requirements.

Ten years later, low- or no-down-payment mortgages may be making a comeback. Several private banks are now offering various zero-down mortgage programs or down payment assistance programs for higher-risk borrowers. While they are not identical to the adjustable-rate mortgages that were given out like candy in the runup to 2007, they may herald a worrisome trend that could lead to a repeat of our last housing crisis.

Michigan’s largest bank, Flagstar, is offering a new program to “low-income and moderate-income” borrowers that essentially pays their 3% down payment, plus up to $3,500 for closing costs, for them. Sounds generous, but buyers should be careful to read the fine print: The down payment and closing costs can be taxed as income by the IRS.

Flagstar is targeting borrowers with incomes between $35,000 and $62,000 per year, and rates would be based on credit (but at least 4%). The program is only available in certain Michigan counties that censuses consider low-to-moderate income areas.

Fifth Third Bank, based in Cincinnati, is offering a Down Payment Assistance plan that provides a gift of 3% of the home’s purchase price, capped at $36,000, to aspiring homeowners who qualify. Again, this gift is treated as income by the IRS.

Comment by S-Crow
2018-01-01 19:55:53

You mentioned: “While they are not identical to the adjustable-rate mortgages that were given out like candy in the runup to 2007, they may herald a worrisome trend that could lead to a repeat of our last housing crisis.”

No, the ARM’s were PUSHED by loan officers. Insane profits. My signature is on checks to LO’s for thousands by originating these loans.

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Comment by BlackSwandive
2018-01-01 23:27:08

And you feel good about yourself for peddling this garbage?

 
Comment by S-Crow
2018-01-03 19:19:17

I don’t peddle debt. I close transactions.

 
Comment by rms
2018-01-04 07:51:12

And likely enjoy access to the coffee machine?

 
 
 
 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-01 10:33:57

“Is there much difference between 100% and the common 97% today? ”

A distinction without a difference. Both are sub prime and they’ve been most of the mortgage market for nearly two decades now.

Comment by oxide
2018-01-01 19:37:49

The 100% LTV didn’t cause prices to bubble, at least not by itself. It’s was those loans where you could get “into” a house paying less than PITI. It was easy to buy a house at 4x, 5x, 10x income, because your monthly payment was more like a 2x income house — until it reset.

So I have to admit that’s I’m rather baffled how people are affording the true and full payments for houses at 4x and 5x income. Credit cards and not contributing to retirement, I guess.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-01 19:55:02

Making mortgage payments with credit cards is.

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Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-01 21:17:06

“So I have to admit that’s I’m rather baffled how people are affording the true and full payments for houses at 4x and 5x income.”

Fed engineered interest rate suppression enabled this. Once rates return to normalcy, these folks will be underwater.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2018-01-02 07:32:41

Once rates return to normalcy, these folks will be underwater.

Will rates eventually return to normalcy? See Japan…

I am literally beginning to wonder whether I will see it in my lifetime.

 
 
Comment by rms
2018-01-01 22:38:24

The economy is being run like a “rent-to-own” furniture store.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2018-01-02 07:34:40

The economy is being run like a “rent-to-own” furniture store.

LOL! Best line of the blog so far in the new year, IMO. Nice, rms!

 
 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2018-01-02 08:43:59

He later took out a home equity loan to help finance his business of importing high-end auto parts. His adjustable-rate mortgage jumped from $2,200 a month to $3,700 last September.”

‘The number of hate comments we got just floored me,’ Jeff Hahn said. ‘This wasn’t something we chose to have happen to us. I just don’t get how these people can judge me like this and think we completely took advantage of the system.

The Hahn’s story is so typical of FBs during the bubble. They ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY took advantage of the system.

1. Buy a home they could not afford…

2. …probably with an I/O or neg-am loan — not just an ARM — judging from the payment jump (journalists never got this right)

3. Take out a HELOC or, cash out refi? (journalists never got this right) to finance a new business (what work was he doing before?).

4. Then they took advantage of a massive credit card limit (with only a 720 FICO) to make mortgage payments.

5. Then they made no mortgage payments at all. They couldn’t walk (CT is recourse), but they were probably hoping to sell or squat.

6. Complain about how *they* are victims and, oh woe is them look at the hate mail.

This is what Blue means by a credit expansion (more like explosion). I’m old enough to remember when this couple wouldn’t get ANY of this credit cheese.

 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2018-01-01 08:55:05

Alameda, CA Housing Prices Crater 5% YOY

https://www.movoto.com/alameda-ca/market-trends/

Comment by Jingle Male
2018-01-01 09:24:38

HA! How long did it take to find a market with 16 houses for “inventory”? Seeking small samples to suit your “analysis”? HA! You are such a fraud. Alameda, CA is a strong market with plenty of demand.

Case Schiller has prices up 6% nationally in 2017. Sure, the supply demand market may change in the next year or two, but your post is a joke! HA!

Comment by Anonymous Coward
2018-01-01 09:47:51

I just sold my house in Alameda County (Oakland) in November. I couldn’t resist. House had almost doubled in value at the peak (which I put at about early summer 2017). I sold in for somewhat less than double. Still made a big windfall.

Traffic was slow, agents visibly nervous about the market. The practice in that area is not list at actual list. List low and start a bidding war. Worked for years. Not working so well now. Some are having to (gasp) drop their list price. The market changed, and it changed fast.

What next Spring will bring, who can say. But it’s no longer my concern.

Comment by palmetto
2018-01-01 12:27:47

“House had almost doubled in value at the peak (which I put at about early summer 2017).”

Bingo! I think you are spot on about the peak. That’s apparently when the peak was in the Tampa Bay area as well. It’s not that houses aren’t still selling, but the process appears to be slower with lower closing prices.

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Comment by Jingle Male
2018-01-03 06:56:58

Average days on market = 26

That is not what I call a slow market! Oakland could be somewhat different (”There’s no there, there!”), but HA’s post about Alameda is a joke! There is no crater in Alameda.

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Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-01 10:46:15

DebtDonkey

Walnut Grove, CA Housing Prices Crater 30% YOY

https://www.movoto.com/walnut-grove-ca/market-trends/

 
 
 
Comment by MWR
2018-01-01 09:16:22

His adjustable-rate mortgage jumped from $2,200 a month to $3,700 last September.”

This had to be a sub-prime mortgage. I had an ajustable in about the same time period and after 5 years my rate FELL 1.75%.

The people I know all had the same experience. ARM rates coming down in 2008 to 2010 when they reset,

Comment by S-Crow
2018-01-01 20:04:03

These were not traditional ARM’s. These were pick a payment ARM’s.

 
 
Comment by Mr. Banker
2018-01-01 09:33:48

Ben, you need to find a way to include some violin music along with your posts, perhaps even a laugh track.

Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-01 09:36:12

Example

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-01 10:48:26

A sad panda or trombone for the DebtDonkeys and DegenerateGamblers would be nice too.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-01 09:51:48

“We’re not homeowners; we’re renting from the banks and investors.”

The moment of Truth!

And you need to add the state to the list of creditors owed payment, especially in the coastal Blue States.

Comment by Mr. Banker
2018-01-01 10:04:00

“The moment of Truth.”

More like a lifetime of Truth.

Bahahahahahahahahahaha.

 
Comment by oxide
2018-01-01 11:11:13

It’s only going to get worse as more and more people live in their cars and RVs and don’t owe any property tax. The Tiny House movement prides itself on illegally parking in somebody’s back yard to avoid the property taxes. Of course, they are probably the same ones complaining about bad-quality schools.

Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-01 11:47:05

We pay property tax on our cars, though it is a small fraction of what our landlords generously pay on the house we rent.

Comment by BlueSkye
2018-01-01 14:17:51

The property tax on my boat is around $1/month.

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Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-01-01 21:34:25

I keep reading these stories of high priced areas on the coast where (CA and FL) where the property tax is more than what I pay annually in rent (we pay $400 month + utilities for 2 bed/2 bath condo). This is about $400 below market rate for our area. I wonder where in the US we could find something else similar. Maybe the North Dakota oil field cities that got crushed by the oil downturn?

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2018-01-02 07:37:06

How did you find a place at one HALF of market rate??

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-01-02 15:10:13

It’s a special arrangement. We feel very lucky to have it and readily acknowledge our good fortune. I was going back to school due to a change of careers. I didn’t want to buy because I thought the market was frothy then (two and a half years ago) and we didn’t know if we would stay in the area after school. But my father said to look for a low-cost condo to buy and he would purchase it as an investment and then rent it out to us for a deal. The deal was that we would do all the leg work to find the place and would be very good renters keeping it in tip top shape. When we move, he would sell and pocket any appreciation. At the time rent was about $750, it has gone up by about $200/month now. This will turn out to be a win-win because it was a $100k condo and similar units are now selling for about $125k to $130k.

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2018-01-01 17:45:58

In some states there is little or no property tax paid on motor vehicles, and even when there is, it goes down as the vehicle depreciates. My son has a hand me down beater we gave him (11 years old) and the registration and tax is about $70 per year.

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Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-01 11:15:39

“We’re not homeowners; we’re renting from the banks and investors.”

The moment of Truth!

Indeed. At double the cost of renting from a landlord I may add.

 
Comment by rms
2018-01-01 11:20:18

‘If you think your house is all yours, just miss a payment or property tax bill, and you’ll find out who it really belongs to,’ he said.

A lawyer once told me, “You are basically under arrest when the police red light you. Think not? Try leaving.”

 
Comment by Anonymous
2018-01-01 15:31:18

“‘When it comes to renting, it’s just cash in the trash,’ he said. ‘You can’t win no way when you’re renting.’”

But then, when talking about all his overtime and economizing to make his mortgage: “Renters have a different mentality; they can party.’”

DONK !!!!

 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2018-01-01 10:37:42

Turner, OR Housing Prices Crater 9% YOY On Expanding Mortgage Defaults

https://www.movoto.com/turner-or/market-trends/

 
Comment by rj not in chicago anymore
Comment by Anonymous
2018-01-01 15:40:37

Interesting. So what is the problem in those various mid-sized towns? Why so much crime? Too many meth- or pot-heads?

Comment by In Colorado
2018-01-01 15:51:07

The article does say that by national standards the crime is low in those towns, they’re just high by Colorado standards.

Some of them are on the Western Slope (Delta, Cortez, Montrose, Grand Junction), others like Trinidad, Pueblo and Alamosa are on the south side of the state. Few jobs, low pay, etc. Then there’s the crap places in Metro Denver: Aurora, Sheridan, etc.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-01 12:23:26

‘In San Luis Obispo County, a median-priced home cost $454,840 in November. That was down 17.1 percent from the median price in October and 14.6 percent from November 2006, when the price was $532,890, and well below the record $605,158 set in November 2005. The association said November 2007 sales in San Luis Obispo County fell 17.7 percent from October’s level and 28.7 percent from November 2006.’

‘The North County median declined to $469,000 from $490,000, a 4.3 percent decrease. In December, the county median was $472,500, down from $529,000 the same month a year ago. Jim Liptak of Country Real Estate in Paso Robles and president-elect of the California Association of Realtors…said the housing slump actually started in 2005, the same time record numbers of people jumped into real estate. The oversupply of housing and agents were two things that ‘created almost the perfect storm.’

I don’t re-post articles often but wanted to draw some attention to late 2007. It was an epic time for this blog: I was working 14 hours a day to keep up with it all. And note how different events were playing out and how they are remembered today:

‘the housing slump actually started in 2005, the same time record numbers of people jumped into real estate’

Was the media warning people in 2005? Were the used house salespeople? Heck no, they were busy herding people in by the thousands with tales of easy riches and can’t lose gambling.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-01 13:32:29

And the crimes, collusion and corrupt practices continued.

 
Comment by BlueSkye
2018-01-01 14:22:35

It’s been an interesting reminder.

 
Comment by Montanagal
2018-01-01 16:43:48

I first came here in Sept 2007, via a link at Mickey Kaus. I must have read every word!

 
 
Comment by SW
2018-01-01 13:39:10

Ben,

The central coast articles are priceless. I live here. The median sales price right now is $615k which surpasses the 2005 record of $605k. I’ve noticed what others here are posting as far as things slowing down and not selling as quickly. Only in the last 1.5 - 2 years has new development commenced with a smattering of small developments and condos going up. Most new devs are 25 units or less.

Reading the blog today reminded me of a conversation I had a while back with a guy who said the central coast real estate market has always been strong and didn’t go down like everywhere else in 2007. As you posted from 2007, the market here dropped 25% on the median price. It’s funny how people remember what they want to about a situation. That’s probably how we’ve gotten back to these insane market dynamics.

Happy New Year,
Sam

 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2018-01-01 14:58:10

Mountain View, CA Rental Rates Plunge 9% YOY On A Sluggish State Economy

https://www.zillow.com/mountain-view-ca/home-values/

*Select price from dropdown menu on rental chart

 
Comment by azdude
2018-01-01 17:46:53

buy a house today, enter foreclosure tomorrow!

 
Comment by palmetto
2018-01-01 20:36:41

Rumor has it that 30-50 Congresscritters won’t be returning from their holiday break. Which is interesting because that is the supposedly the number of Congresscritters tied up in the Awan brothers Pakistani spy ring that was actively working in Congressional IT support. Not to mention Trump’s first tweet of the year had to do with cutting off aid to Pakistan.

That would mean that Florida will be missing some folks in Congress.

Comment by sod
2018-01-01 21:17:29

The Awan thing has to be one of the most inexplicably under-reported stories of 2017. So bizarre.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2018-01-01 23:10:57

Are they going to resign or will they be arrested? What is the R vs D breakdown.

Comment by palmetto
2018-01-02 06:03:52

Right now it’s just one of those rumors being amplified by certain youtubers swept up in the whole “deep state takedown” intrigue. However, if I recall correctly, this bit of information actually made it to Fox news via one of their guests. I want to say it was Dan Bongino, but I’m not sure.

Not sure what the R vs D breakdown is. According to George Webb, who as a citizen journalist really deserves much of the credit for exposing the Awans, it is mainly a D thing, with a couple of Rs mixed in.

As sod said above, it’s a severely under-reported story. And we may not hear much about it. But, if any HBBers happen to have a Congresscritter who is missing in action, let us know.

For example, Corrinne Brown of Florida is one of those who won’t be coming back, but although she likely had involvement with the Awans, she was recently convicted of charity fraud. I guess the Clintons frowned on her cutting in on their action.

 
 
Comment by MacBeth
2018-01-02 06:02:37

An aside - have you seen what is going on in Iran? More big news.

Comment by palmetto
2018-01-02 06:12:21

Yes, but not sure what’s really going on there, outside of the “spontaneous protests”. Only “know” what’s being reported.

Comment by palmetto
2018-01-02 07:13:33

I rather like Lionel’s analysis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5xgtudlNBM

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Comment by Tarara Boomdea
2018-01-02 13:08:09

Lionel
He’s very good. Way back when, I enjoyed his talk radio commentary during the OJ trial.

I’ve taken to speeding up youtube videos to 1.5x and sometimes, if they’re still intelligible, 2x. Saves time and alleviates my guilt at spending so much time watching them. I should be looking for a job. (Work 🙀!)

 
 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2018-01-02 09:01:27

Sorry palmetto, I don’t believe this one.

It’s very easy to say someone is “caught up” and “won’t be returning.” But there would be YUGE logistics and notifications if that were the case. Resignations, governor appointments, special elections, the works. That’s massive media coverage.

If there’s even a there there, it’s more likely that only a handful of critters would be investigated for some cover infraction and simply not run again.

According to the official calendar, the first quorum call in the House is at noon tomorrow. So I guess we’ll find out soon enough.

 
 
Comment by Sean
2018-01-02 06:04:40

Living paycheck to paycheck, so you take out a credit card to make the payments on an underwater house. Yet I’M the loser who rents. God Bless America!

Comment by azdude
2018-01-02 07:44:18

debt slaves to the wall street credit machine.

 
Comment by rms
2018-01-02 13:11:02

“Before he became homeless, David Raether was an award-winning TV comedy writer with a house in a wealthy suburb of Los Angeles and a large happy family. He will talk about living on the street, and how he rebuilt his life.”

Middle Class and Homeless
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlSqnMo0SHY

***

He was upper middle-class, IMHO. Easily worth 15-minutes of your time.

Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-01-02 15:31:27

Wow, watched the entire thing. It was very moving, heart-wrenching description of the trauma of homelessness.

“One of the things I learned about all this stuff I had is that stuff is completely replaceable. They have stores now that are selling stuff, you can just go there, buy all of it, bring it to your house and everything you used to have you can get it back. But the one thing I really wanted, the one thing I truly missed was a room, a bed, and the people I loved.”

 
Comment by rms
2018-01-02 19:40:05

This guy could have had a paid-off house with his income, but…

Indeed, it was a moving speech.

 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2018-01-02 07:11:19

In other news, we might actually get some snow flurries in North Florida:

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/weather/is-there-a-chance-of-snow-flurries-in-northeast-florida-southeast-georgia-this-week/672796571

Global warming, doncha know.

Comment by MacBeth
2018-01-02 07:43:09

Better run to the store and buy butter, bread and milk ASAP!!!

Comment by oxide
2018-01-02 09:02:38

Eggs. You can’t have a French Toast emergency without the eggs. Yeesh. :roll:

 
 
 
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