January 16, 2018

Talk Of Substantial Price Cuts

A report from Dow Jones Newswire on China. “China’s housing market has defied gravity and government restraints for two years, floating on a tide of bank loans and speculation. Until now. In Beijing and Shanghai — two of the country’s largest markets — and other megacities, sales have stalled and prices have dropped, falling slightly in some pockets and dramatically in others. Luo Chuanyun, a 29-year-old liquor distributor, bought his first apartment on Beijing’s northern edge for $150,000 in late 2016, when prices were climbing by more than 20% a year.”

“The purchase put Mr. Luo up to his neck in debt, with mortgage payments of about $15,000 a year on an annual income of a little over $18,000. Mr. Luo said his real-estate agent told him that to find a buyer for his apartment now he would need to sell for half of what he paid. ‘I’d be short too much money,’ Mr. Luo said.”

“Some developers that a year ago put up special crowd barriers when apartments went on sale are now biding their time. In early December, a group of homeowners stormed the sales office of their Shanghai complex, Central Washington, whose developer, Shanghai Zhaoping Real Estate Development Co., was advertising new apartments at prices about 7% less than ones sold earlier in the year. One apartment owner said the new prices suggested the value of the apartment she bought from the developer in March had dropped by about 17.5%.”

“The developer couldn’t be reached to comment. It said on the project’s social-media account that price fluctuations are normal and that talk of substantial price cuts was ‘purely a misunderstanding.’”

“In some neighborhoods on Beijing’s outskirts, prices have fallen by double-digit percentages. In March, main street in the town of Yanjiao was lined with busy property agencies. Buyers who couldn’t pass Beijing residence requirements or afford its prices flocked there, pushing up prices in a sleepy exurb without much of its own economy. Since then, homebuying limits helped push prices down more than 30%. ‘For Rent’ signs now adorn the windows of abandoned brokerages.”

“‘There are people who bought multiple homes who are now trying to sell one to pay off the mortgage on another,’ said Ran Yunjie, a property agent. One of his clients bought an apartment last year for about $230,000. To find a buyer now, the client would have to drop the price by 60%, according to Mr. Ran.”




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195 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-16 07:45:26

I was planning on other items to post this morning, but came across this and thought I should bring it to your attention.

Comment by BlueSkye
2018-01-16 10:36:57

Fang Nu’s

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-16 07:48:37

‘Luo Chuanyun, a 29-year-old liquor distributor, bought his first apartment on Beijing’s northern edge for $150,000 in late 2016, when prices were climbing by more than 20% a year. The purchase put Mr. Luo up to his neck in debt, with mortgage payments of about $15,000 a year on an annual income of a little over $18,000.’

‘Luo said his real-estate agent told him that to find a buyer for his apartment now he would need to sell for half of what he paid’

Well it was cheaper than renting Luo. Easy come, easy go. Of course, making 18k a year, it isn’t so easy. You’ll only have to work a decade, assuming you don’t eat, etc.

Comment by 2banana
2018-01-16 08:25:26

How do you say “Jingle Mail” in Manderan?

Comment by oxide
2018-01-16 09:13:21

Even if Chinese mortgages are recourse, how would the banks recover the cash? FBs like Luo obviously don’t have much cash. Perhaps the banks will accept liver and kidneys.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-16 09:15:11

Donk,

That’s not gonna work with all the Chinese speculators up to their neck in subprime mortgages here in the US.

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Comment by Mr. Banker
2018-01-16 09:31:10

“Perhaps the bank will accept liver and kidneys.”

A good-looking teenage daughter might suffice … in addition to the liver and kidneys.

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Comment by oxide
2018-01-16 11:03:13

That’s not going to work with 29-year old Luo…

 
 
Comment by Karen
2018-01-16 10:45:30

Who knows if these were even banks they borrowed the money from.

How do you say, “Pay up by Wednesday or I’m gonna break your kneecaps” in Mandarin?

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Comment by Sean
2018-01-16 11:15:49

Xīngqísān zhīqián fùkuǎn, fǒuzé wǒ huì dǎpò nǐ de xīgài

 
Comment by Sean
2018-01-16 11:24:06

Also, FB = Xìngjiāo mǎi jiā

I might have a trip to Vancouver next month, need to practice these phrases.

 
Comment by Karen
2018-01-16 19:42:39

LOL. Are you the one loaning money to these people? I think you lost a bundle.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Mr. Banker
2018-01-16 09:02:29

“The purchase put Mr. Luo up to his neck in debt, with mortgage payments of about $15,000 a year on an annual income of a little over $18,000.”

Damn, some Chinese banker left $3,000 on the table. The shame!

Comment by b
2018-01-16 09:44:58

that is harsh

Comment by Mr. Banker
2018-01-16 10:00:04

😁

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Comment by BlackSwandive
2018-01-16 11:06:05

Shear them, skin them, then render them?

 
 
 
 
Comment by Rental Watch
2018-01-16 09:49:38

‘There are people who bought multiple homes who are now trying to sell one to pay off the mortgage on another,’

Too bad they were censored from reading US media, or they might have heard the bad ending from lots of such stories. Casey Serin anyone?

Comment by MWR
2018-01-16 17:50:38

What is Casey up to these days? Anyone know?

Comment by Carl Morris
2018-01-16 19:19:29

Too bad they were censored from reading US media

Doesn’t matter. Every one I’ve tried to talk to was sure it was different there anyway.

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Comment by LI LI Land
2018-01-16 20:22:05

Dude’s got his own wikipedia page!?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Serin

“In 2016, Serin legally changed his name to Casey Constantine. In Facebook comments, he stated that the name change is a sort of rebranding for the next chapter of his career/business in real estate, and that it will allow him much more control over his search results online, somewhat of a clean slate.”

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Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-16 20:39:42

10 Bizarre Wikipedia Pages That Will Make You Quit The Internet Today

https://thoughtcatalog.com/ted-pillow/2013/07/wikipedia-black-holes/

 
Comment by Karen
2018-01-16 22:56:24

We all know the real reason people change their names.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2018-01-16 23:04:19

Holy pop-ups, Batman. I did get to read a bit about eyeball licking, however. Fascinating.

Speaking of Serin, he not only has a wiki page but some other gold as well. Look at all the glowing reviews!

https://www.zillow.com/profile/caseyconstantine/

 
Comment by oxide
2018-01-17 06:39:40

Oh look, he brokered a purchase in Folsom. Maybe we could hook him up with Carl Morris. :shock:

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2018-01-17 10:20:30

Oh look, he brokered a purchase in Folsom. Maybe we could hook him up with Carl Morris.

Oh crap…I didn’t know he was here. If he does anything in public I should go heckle him.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-16 07:49:59

China’s Hot Housing Market Begins to Cool

By Dominique Fong Published January 16, 2018 Dow Jones Newswires

So this is the globalist Wall Street Journal. Begins to cool?

Comment by palmetto
2018-01-16 08:17:07

Looks like hive collapse. Is it time to post that pic of the guy (or gal, I couldn’t tell which) walking around in pajamas?

Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-16 08:21:14

Shanghai Dan, holding the bag:

Example

Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-16 08:22:58

Example

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Comment by palmetto
2018-01-16 08:34:04

Thank you, sir!

I hope this isn’t some fashion statement that is catching on globally. Someone posted on one of the local boards here in Florida about seeing people walking around in their pajamas. I myself haven’t seen anything like that.

The poster was evidently a New Englander who recently relocated to Florida and they’re shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED by what they’ve seen here. But apparently they’re not shocked enuf to move their fat, outraged a$$ back to Connecticut.

 
Comment by snake charmer
2018-01-16 09:50:33

LOL. I have seen people wearing anything and everything here. The number of settings where any kind of formal wear is required is … almost zero. In particular, flip-flops are almost universally acceptable outside of work.

Did you see the one earlier this month where an inspector entered a downtown condo unit, and was attacked by a bobcat? Crazy stuff. Almost as crazy as last year’s episode where a possum broke into a Panhandle liquor store and partied.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/Man-says-bobcat-attacked-him-in-Tampa-s-Skypoint-condos_164161146

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opossum-breaks-into-florida-liquor-store-gets-drunk/

 
Comment by palmetto
2018-01-16 10:30:18

The wildlife is restless! Got an email from one of my former neighbors saying that a sickly “wolf” has been roaming the neighborhood in South Hillsborough. Since wolves are not native to Florida (except one species which is said to have died out in the 1980s), the animal had to have been either a “wolf dog” that maybe got away from its owners, or a coyote. I’m going with the coyote.

OTOH, then there’s this:

http://www.naplesnews.com/story/news/local/2018/01/12/north-naples-man-recovering-bear-attack-his-backyard/1026067001/

 
Comment by Anonymous
2018-01-16 11:29:45

I’m in Las Vegas, and I do see people (adults and kids) walking around in pajamas at all hours of the day. I’ve wondered before how and why that became a fashion.

 
Comment by snake charmer
2018-01-16 11:56:48

Interesting. According to the article, that was the 15th bear attack in Florida since 1976. But I’ve lived here 25 years, and its the first one I’ve ever read about.

A fun quiz: what kills more people in Florida, alligators, snakes, sharks, or lightning? Lightning kills more people, many times over, than all the others put together.

 
Comment by Mr. Banker
2018-01-16 11:58:36

In Vegas it’s not a fashion, it’s all they have left.

 
Comment by Anonymous
2018-01-16 12:56:54

“In Vegas it’s not a fashion, it’s all they have left.”

If so, I hate to think what they’ll be wearing when the next recession hits!

 
Comment by messagetorudy
2018-01-16 13:58:46

Lots of ghetto birds in my home town wear pajamas all day. You see them riding their bikes to the walmart to look at guns - no lie. #ShipThemBack

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-01-16 16:14:35

Ghetto bird = helicopter.

 
Comment by rms
2018-01-16 19:07:03

“If so, I hate to think what they’ll be wearing when the next recession hits!”

Haha… your pajamas.

 
Comment by alphonso bedoya
2018-01-16 20:24:23

Palmetto

Foxes lived on my property in the Redlands forty year ago. Occasionally I see them in my neighborhood now. No more stray cats.

 
 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-16 08:32:28

I bet he “works from home”.

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Comment by palmetto
2018-01-16 08:49:57

You may have meant dan or pajama boy, but you just nailed it regarding the vultures fleeing to Florida from New England. They ALL “work from home”!!! By God, it’s a miracle!

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-16 09:12:52

If you want to “work from home” go ahead and get in your truck because you won’t be working for long.

 
Comment by El Tr0ll de Marquis
2018-01-16 10:52:46

I’ve worked from home for the past 15 years. Going to a cube farm 9-5 is something I never want to do again, ever. And it also means I can live virtually anywhere as long as I have access to a phone, the internet and within a reasonable distance to an airport. I travel about 25 -30 days a year for business.

 
Comment by BlueSkye
2018-01-16 11:04:48

virtually anywhere…

That was my situation for the last ten years. Working from the boat with WiFi and phone offshore is something I never imagined previously.

I couldn’t even imagine going back to a nice corner office.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2018-01-16 11:28:10

In my case WFH just sort of happened to me. I was WFH 2 days a week, but since the reorg I only go into the office 2 -3 times a month. I don’t miss the commute, and when I do drive in now it seems like a monumental waste of time.

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2018-01-16 15:15:02

Those photos reminded me of something, discussed here a few years ago. Whatever happened to the crowds of middle-aged and elderly Chinese women who would break out in dance? Is that still going on? I remember an article stating that the authorities wanted to limit the practice to a repertoire of a dozen state-approved routines.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/12/world/asia/china-dancing-square-grannies-shot.html

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Comment by Carl Morris
2018-01-16 19:22:44

They still do it. No sign of slowing down and they seem to keep recruiting younger and younger people to join them. It used to be exclusively an old people thing as far as I could tell when I first saw it. Not any more. Drives the people who don’t like the noise crazy.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-16 12:36:51

Servings of Crow and CraterTaters are flying out of the kitchen. It’s the only thing in high demand these days.

 
 
Comment by cactus
2018-01-16 07:55:00

Reuters

Dagong cuts U.S. ratings to BBB+ from A-, outlook negative

* Says tax cuts, increasing reliance on debt weaken U.S. solvency

* U.S. now on par with Peru, six notches below Chinese local debt

Comment by palmetto
2018-01-16 08:15:08

Yeah, I saw that this morning. Not that the US is in good shape, it’s not, but it makes sense China would do that to distract from what Ben just posted.

“Yes, we suck, but you suck more! Nyah, nyah!”

 
Comment by BlackSwandive
2018-01-16 12:09:38

Ratings have proved useless. Who even pays attention?

Comment by Anonymous
2018-01-16 13:01:17

Yeah, remember how the crap MBS’s and CDO’s were rated AAA investment grade?

Moody’s admitted to overrating those “securities”…in 2015:

http://fortune.com/2015/07/23/moodys-subprime-mortgage-bonds/

 
 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2018-01-16 07:56:01

Naples, FL Housing Prices Crater 5% YOY As Housing Correction Expands To Coastal Properties

https://www.movoto.com/naples-fl/market-trends/

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2018-01-16 08:24:23

Its happening the lowering of corporate tax rates……..imagine if if was ZERO……saved up tax losses would disappear

Citigroup’s $18 Billion Loss Recalls ‘Sins’ of the Financial Crisis, Shares Gain

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/citigroups-18-billion-loss-recalls-131500885.html

 
Comment by palmetto
2018-01-16 08:54:23

So I’m reading this article about the flupocalypse, and I swear to god, the way it reads, it’s like some entity “puts out” a new strain of flu every year, like a fashion designer putting out a new collection of trendy clothing.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-flu-demand-20180116-htmlstory.html

Comment by cactus
2018-01-16 10:32:15

I went to the emergency room in NOV expecting to have severe flu and was told I had Pneumonia. Tested neg for flu. Finally feel Ok now.

Need to have another x-ray soon but if its all crazy with flu maybe I’ll wait a bit.

kaiser always crowded

Comment by palmetto
2018-01-16 10:57:51

Surest way to get sick is go to a hospital. I loathe hospitals.

 
Comment by oxide
2018-01-16 11:07:14

Glad you’re feeling better, Cactus! Flu is supposedly widespread here, but I’ve been lucky to avoid it. Last years’ flu shot gave me a day of aches and fatigue, only now to find out all three strains “missed.” Grrr.

 
Comment by Anonymous
2018-01-16 11:33:46

I’m ill now but think (hopefully) its just a cold…

 
 
Comment by ibbots
2018-01-16 11:25:22

CareNow, a 20+ yr old nation wide urgent care center, had its busiest month ever in Dec 2017.

Dallas has been hit especially hard for some reason. My wife tried to make an appt last week with her doc and was told stay at home, don’t come in. She only had a respiratory issue.

Comment by b
2018-01-16 13:58:59

ya - wierd. I just flew back from DFW. Folks on the plane home were hacking and sneezing. Of course i got it within 2 days.

 
 
 
Comment by Apartment 401
2018-01-16 09:02:07

Realtors are liars.

Comment by jeff
2018-01-16 09:18:56

Definition of liar

: a person who tells lies has a reputation as a liar

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liar

Comment by scdave
2018-01-16 09:45:47

Definition of liar ??

So whats wrong with lying ?? Its a perfectly acceptable practice now…Its actually encouraged…At what grade level should we start instructing the kids on this new way to MAGA….

Comment by jeff
2018-01-16 10:02:05

“At what grade level should we start instructing the kids on this new way to MAGA….”

Pre K

Washington Schools to Teach Gender Identity Curriculum in Kindergarten

June 2, 2016

https://www.fpiw.org/blog/2016/06/02/washington-schools-to-teach-gender-identity-curriculum-in-kindergarten/

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Comment by Rental Watch
2018-01-16 10:28:16

My 9-year old daughter was asked at a summer camp about with which “pronoun” she would like to be addressed.

After looking at the person quizzically for a few minutes, she said “um…I’m a girl.”

I honestly don’t care which toilet anyone uses. However, I sure wish politicians would focus their attention on the big problems that will effect all of us (Medicare/SS Reform), than the issues of the <1%.

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-16 10:36:42

Seattle and WA state are competing against CA for the nations #1 impoverished state. For now it’s CA.

“California Leads The Nation — In Poverty”

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/09/25/california-leads-the-nation-in-poverty/

 
Comment by oxide
2018-01-16 11:17:59

This sounds a lot like the “what do you want to be when you grow up” nonsense. When I grow up, I want to be a boy! Yeah, right.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2018-01-16 11:34:41

My 9-year old daughter was asked at a summer camp about with which “pronoun” she would like to be addressed.

After looking at the person quizzically for a few minutes, she said “um…I’m a girl.”

I can only imagine what forms of lunacy will be considered normal in the next 10-20 years.

 
Comment by BearCat
2018-01-16 11:36:10

@Rental Watch,

A better answer would be something like “Princess” or “Queen of the Universe”

 
Comment by Apartment 401
2018-01-16 12:31:33

what forms of lunacy will be considered normal in the next 10-20 years

SJWs are just getting started with this.

These people deserve to live through a long electrical grid collapse in a very densely populated coastal urban area.

 
Comment by BlueSkye
2018-01-16 13:15:02

“Princess” or “Queen…

Very cute idea, but I don’t think those are pronouns.

Me, you, mine, hisself and all.

 
Comment by BearCat
2018-01-16 14:20:42

They’re as good as “they”, “zher”, etc.

I

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-16 09:05:25

‘In early December, a group of homeowners stormed the sales office of their Shanghai complex, Central Washington, whose developer, Shanghai Zhaoping Real Estate Development Co., was advertising new apartments at prices about 7% less than ones sold earlier in the year. One apartment owner said the new prices suggested the value of the apartment she bought from the developer in March had dropped by about 17.5%’

Another former world beater bites the dust. How any is that in the last year? It’s happened before. These Chinese are poor losers:

China’s Hot Housing Market Begins to Cool - WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-hot-housing-market-begins-to-cool-1516098600
6 hours ago - In early December, a group of homeowners stormed the sales office of their Shanghai complex, Central Washington, whose developer, Shanghai Zhaoping Real Estate Development Co., was advertising new apartments at prices about 7% less than ones sold earlier in the year. One apartment owner said …
Declining Shanghai property sales spark price cuts, protests …
https://www.edgeprop.my/…/declining-shanghai-property-sales-spark-price-cuts-protests
Hundreds of angry homeowners stormed the sales office of a property project in Shanghai’s Jiading district on Oct 22, demanding a refund as prices of the development have fallen by up to one-third since they made their purchases, the Shanghai Youth Daily reported earlier this week, without naming the developer.
Urban China - Google Books Result
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0745665454
Xuefei Ren - 2013 - ‎Social Science
There are frequent newspaper stories about angry homeowners storming into sales offices protesting against developers slashing pricesfi The transformation of the land and housing sectors reveals the changing regime of urban governance in contemporary China, from a highly centralized system prioritizing national …
Turning point in housing market looms|Society|chinadaily.com.cn
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn › China › Society
Oct 27, 2011 - Hundreds of homeowners stormed into the sales office of a property project developed by the Longfor Company in Shanghai last week to demand compensation, as prices have dropped by as much as 30 percent since they signed their purchase contracts. The protests followed a promotional policy …
Shanghai Homeowners Smash Showroom in Protest of Falling Prices …
australianpropertyforum.com › … › Forums › Australian Property Forum
Oct 30, 2011 - 1 post - ‎1 author
A group of around 400 homeowners in Shanghai demonstrated publicly and damaged a showroom operated by their property developer after the … In a another incident, 30 home owners stormed the sales office of a project of Hong Kong-listed China Overseas Land & Investment Ltd. on Wednesday, the …
Protests hit China as property prices fall » Capital News
https://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2011/10/protests-hit-china-as-property-prices-fall/
Oct 27, 2011 - SHANGHAI, Oct 27 - Hundreds of angry home buyers launched a series of protests in China’s commercial hub of Shanghai this week, as owners decried falling p … In a another incident, 30 home owners stormed the sales office of a project of Hong Kong-listed China Overseas Land & Investment Ltd.on …
China’s Real Estate Developers Slashing Prices, Investors Enraged …
https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinas-real-estate-developers-slashing-prices-investor...
Oct 27, 2011 - Shanghai homeowners protest at a real estate developerà ¢ï¿½ï¿½s sales office and wreck a showroom on Oct. 22. (Weibo.com) … Seeing their investments shrink by hundreds of thousands of yuan overnight, enraged homebuyers smashed developers’ sales offices. On Oct. 22 several …
Explosion in port city south of Shanghai kills 2, injures 30 - CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-ningbo-explosion-port/
Nov 26, 2017 - Two people were killed and two more seriously injured, the district office announced on its social media account. It gave no details of the deaths. At least 30 others were taken to hospitals, according to Huanqiu.com, a website operated by the newspaper Global Times. It gave no details of their injuries.
Turning point in housing market looms amid discounts - China.org.cn
https://www.china.org.cn/business/2011-10/28/content_23752081.htm
Oct 28, 2011 - Hundreds of homeowners stormed into the sales office of a property project developed by the Longfor Company in Shanghai last week to demand compensation, as prices have dropped by as much as 30 percent since they signed their purchase contracts. The protests followed a promotional policy …
Home prices decline in suburbs - China.org.cn
http://www.china.org.cn › Business › Real Estate
Oct 25, 2011 - In Shanghai, nearly 300 agitated people stormed the sales office of a property project in the Jiading district on Saturday afternoon, shouting for an immediate … Also on Saturday, another group of homeowners gathered outside the sales office of China Overseas Property Group Co in the Pudong New Area …

I wonder why the WSJ didn’t say anything in December?

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-16 09:11:06

These speculators like all the rest of them acquired the strange notion that a depreciating asset like a house doesn’t fall in value. How did that happen?

Renting it is always less costly and historically always has been.

 
Comment by palmetto
2018-01-16 09:40:55

“I wonder why the WSJ didn’t say anything in December?”

Didn’t want any US FBs to get any bright ideas?

OR:

China owns US and WSJ is merely complying with the policies of the owners.

 
Comment by Anonymous
2018-01-16 11:38:13

Seems I’ve heard before that social unrest is the greatest fear of China’s leadership…

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2018-01-16 09:07:38

Another day, another cryptocurrency crash…

Bitcoin tumbles to 6-week low as top cryptocurrencies all sell off
Published: Jan 16, 2018 6:16 a.m. ET
No. 1 virtual currency trades as low as $11,183
Getty Images
Bitcoin is in the red Tuesday.
By Victor Reklaitis
Markets writer

Bitcoin’s spot price was slumping on Tuesday, touching a six-week low near $11,000, as the biggest cryptocurrencies came under pressure across the board.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-16 09:19:40

I’ll offer you Degenerate Gamblers a cent for your ButtCons. That’s a penny more than your other offers.

 
Comment by Mr. Banker
2018-01-16 09:33:27

Say it ain`t so!

Bahahahahahahahahaha.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
 
Comment by BlackSwandive
2018-01-16 11:26:19

I’d imagine once prices really accelerate downward, say towards $5,000 for Bitcoin, you’ll see an absolute stampede to the exits. Capitulation is going to be nasty, though there will be some that will ride it all the way down. Most of these people are crypto day traders.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2018-01-16 12:28:32

Has $130,000,000,000 ever before gone POOF so quickly?

#Asia
January 16, 2018 / 1:50 AM / Updated 2 hours ago
Bitcoin, other cryptocurrencies tumble on government crackdown worries
Jemima Kelly, Gertrude Chavez-Dreyfuss
4 Min Read

LONDON/NEW YORK (Reuters) - Bitcoin slid as much as 18 percent on Tuesday to a four-week low, as worries about a regulatory crackdown on the market spread after reports suggested it was still possible that South Korea could ban trading in cryptocurrencies.
FILE PHOTO: A collection of Bitcoin (virtual currency) tokens are displayed in this picture illustration taken December 8, 2017. REUTERS/Benoit Tessier/Illustration/File Photo

Bitcoin’s slide triggered a selloff across the broader cryptocurrency market, with biggest rival Ethereum down 23 percent on the day at one point, according to trade website Coinmarketcap, and the next biggest, Ripple, plunging by as much as a third.

Bitcoin traded as low as $11,191.59 (£8,127) on the Luxembourg-based Bitstamp exchange. In New York trading, it edged up to $12,078, but that was still down 11.2 percent, leaving it on track for its biggest one-day fall since September.

“With reports on a renewed crackdown on the cryptocurrency in China fuelling anxiety over future restrictions, further losses could be on the cards (for bitcoin) in the near term,” said Lukman Otunuga, research analyst at FXTM in the UK.

“The sharp depreciation witnessed in bitcoin today should remind investors on how explosively volatile and unpredictable the cryptocurrency can be,” he added.

The latest tumble leaves bitcoin down around 40 percent from a record high near $20,000 hit in mid-December, wiping about $130 billion off its total market value - the unit price multiplied by the number of bitcoins that have been released into the market.

“From a technical standpoint, bitcoin is under pressure on the daily charts,” said Otunuga. “The breakdown below $12,000 may encourage a further decline towards $11,000 and $10,000, respectively.”

Comment by oxide
2018-01-16 12:56:27

Has $130,000,000,000 ever before gone POOF so quickly?

It went *poof* about as quickly as it was created. I wonder if Joe Smith cashed his out for $10+ million. If he did, he’ll be even more insufferable.

Comment by BlueSkye
2018-01-16 13:24:20

He’ll certainly say that he sold at the top.

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Comment by BlackSwandive
2018-01-16 18:40:43

I don’t believe a word he says.

 
Comment by alphonso bedoya
2018-01-16 20:32:37

Gentlemen

There are Bulls, Bears and Pigs. :)

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-16 20:35:41

And vultures.

 
Comment by alphonso bedoya
2018-01-16 21:10:18

But no FEMA to pick up the garbage, Ben.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-01-16 20:37:22

‘Has $130,000,000,000 ever before gone POOF so quickly?’

Trillions went poof after the summer 2016 bond peak.

Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-16 21:09:26

For some reason, almost nobody notices when trillions go poof in the bond market.

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Comment by alphonso bedoya
2018-01-16 21:27:01

“Trillions went poof after the summer 2016 bond peak.”

When interest rates go to 3-4% the loss will be 10^13

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Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-16 21:59:26

Opinion: Investors may lose 40% in ‘safe’ bonds — and retirees are most vulnerable
By Howard Gold
Published: Nov 18, 2016 3:22 a.m. ET
Investors unprepared for rising interest rates, top financial adviser Ric Edelman tells Howard Gold

The post-election rally so far has been a boon for stocks and a bust for bonds.

The yield on the 10-year Treasury (TMUBMUSD10Y, +0.65%) closed at about 2.20% on Wednesday, up sharply from its all-time closing low of 1.36% in July. Since bond prices fall when yields rise, anyone owning longer-term bonds has taken a big hit. In just two days after the election, for example, global bond markets lost a collective $1 trillion.

If more of the same is ahead over the next few years, many investors will be in a world of pain, especially retirees, who could suffer 2008-style losses — this time in “safe” bonds.

So says Ric Edelman, executive chairman of Edelman Financial Services, a Fairfax, Va.-based financial planning firm that manages $17 billion for 31,000 families. Barron’s named the firm the nation’s No. 1 independent financial advisor in 2009, 2010, and 2012. He is also author of the recently updated bestseller “Rescue Your Money.”

“The typical investor today has never experienced a sustained rising-rate environment and they are emotionally and historically unprepared for what happens when interest rates go up 3% or 5%,” he said in a telephone interview this week.

Millions of Americans, he observed, “are engaging in a variety of risky behaviors, often without knowing what they’re doing. They’re setting themselves up to lose a lot of money over the next several years, perhaps as much as they lost in 2008 in stocks.”

“You could see 20%, 30%, 40% losses in the bond market over the next several years,” he continued, “and the people who are most exposed to it are retirees trying to live on their income. The people who are the least able to handle it financially are the ones most likely to suffer.”

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Comment by Professor Bear
Comment by alphonso bedoya
2018-01-16 21:34:07

Finnagan’s Wake
or
Finn agan awake?

-Jimmy Joyce

 
 
 
Comment by Apartment 401
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-01-16 09:56:55

Not sure how this would be chalked up to an Obamacarefail. From the article:

“Just repealing that provision alone would lead to 13 million more people becoming uninsured.”

Slevin added, “It would also cause insurance premiums to skyrocket by an average of $2,000 per middle class family and you’d see insurers leaving many health insurance markets because you’ve have less healthy people getting health insurance.”

Trump himself has boasted about how the tax reform bill had effectively repealed the Affordable Care Act.”

Lowering the number of insured and increasing premiums sounds like a Trumpcare success. This is exactly what the GOP and Trump has been trying to do. Now that the “effective repeal” has taken place (it hasn’t, the exchanges will continue), do you think that insurance is going to get cheaper? Nope.

 
 
Comment by jeff
2018-01-16 10:16:26

Has anyone else noticed that the mere mention of the name Trump leaves liberals…

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/seething

Comment by Apartment 401
2018-01-16 12:35:14

Write “Donald Trump lives here” on the back of every $20 bill you handle for some future, anonymous triggering :)

 
Comment by oxide
2018-01-16 14:54:37

The mere mention of Trump… heh.

18 months ago, somebody wrote “Trump 2016″ on some outdoor steps at a university, IN CHALK, and several students complained that the word was a microagression and it “triggered” them to be stressed out. And thus the meme of the the triggered snowflake was born.

Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-01-16 16:18:48

It’s fine to be a partisan. Support Sanders, Clinton, or Trump. But there are cases where Trump is being used in ways that are clearly disturbing and racist:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/trump-racial-jeers.html?mtrref=www.google.com

My wife is a junior high school teacher and she could tell you first hand of some pretty disturbing ways that some kids are invoking Trump in ways targeting Latino. It’s far beyond micro-aggression, it’s blatant bigotry.

 
 
 
Comment by SW
2018-01-16 10:22:41

Back on topic.

https://www.thestreet.com/story/14421476/1/5-predictions-for-2018-u-s-housing-market.html

I’m still on the watch for the 10% RE plunge due to the new tax bill.

Comment by oxide
2018-01-16 11:20:20

Question: I thought the $10K deduction limit was only for new purchases. So, why were so many people with existing mortgage trying to pre-pay their 2018 property taxes? They don’t have to, because they are grandfathered in. (?)

Comment by ibbots
2018-01-16 11:52:03

I think you are confusing the mortgage interest deduction limitation and the state and local tax deduction limit. Existing mortgages are not subject to the new $750k limitation but instead the old $1M limit.

These folks were trying to prepay 2018 property taxes in 2017 to avoid the $10k cap which went into effect in 2018.

Comment by oxide
2018-01-16 12:14:01

Ah, thanks!

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Comment by Rental Watch
2018-01-16 12:31:32

Nope, not grandfathered in.

Your mortgage of $1MM is grandfathered in (you can still deduct interest up to the first $1MM), but not property taxes.

 
Comment by ibbots
2018-01-16 13:04:09

More analysis on this topic:

‘In liberal bastions like metro New York and California, the Trump tax overhaul has been criticized as economic warfare. But as elements of the plan come into focus, tax experts are concluding that some of the most dire predictions for high-tax blue states—particularly surrounding the treatment of state and local taxes—may not pan out as feared.

In blue New Jersey, for instance, the new law will raise taxes on about 285,000 filers earning between $79,890 and $336,620, with a typical hike of about $1,400, according to an analysis by the liberal Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. However, more than 1.2 million New Jerseyans in the same income range will get a cut, with typical savings of about $3,000, according to the analysis.’

Comment by Apartment 401
2018-01-16 20:51:11

according to the analysis

CNN will tell you what you’re allowed/supposed to think about that.

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Comment by SW
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2018-01-16 10:50:34

Addison, TX Housing Prices Crater 5% YOY

https://www.movoto.com/addison-tx/market-trends/

 
Comment by Tea Party Patriot
2018-01-16 10:50:58

California Bill Would Allow Unrestricted Housing by Transit, Solve State Housing Crisis
By Henry Grabar
JAN 05, 2018, 4:37 PM

San Francisco’s state senator, Scott Wiener, has introduced a bill that would all but abolish the city’s famously strict land use controls—and virtually every other residential zoning restriction in California’s urban neighborhoods. It’s just about the most radical attack on California’s affordability crisis you could imagine.

Wiener’s bill, SB-827, flies in the face of every assumption Americans have held about neighborhood politics and design for a century. It also makes intuitive sense. The bill would ensure that all new housing construction within a half-mile of a train station or a quarter-mile of a frequent bus route would not be subject to local regulations concerning size, height, number of apartments, restrictive design standards, or the provision of parking spaces. Because San Francisco is a relatively transit-rich area, this would up-zone virtually the entire city. But it would also apply to corridors in Los Angeles, Oakland, San Diego, and low-rise, transit-oriented suburbs across the state. It would produce larger residential buildings around transit hubs, but just as importantly it would enable developers to build those buildings faster.

Almost everyone agrees California needs more housing. The state is home to 6 of the country’s 10 most expensive metro areas, in part because of decades of under-building. New building permits are hard to come by thanks to balkanized power structures within and between cities, in addition to various structural incentives not to approve new housing units. Ironically, because transit access is an amenity people pay for and then hoard, even some areas around commuter rail or subway stops are required to hold only houses with big front yards.

Of course, transit hubs are exactly where more housing can be built with the least effect on traffic, so that’s the practice Wiener’s bill tries to promote. It would establish a minimum height (45 to 85 feet, depending on street with and distance) for new buildings sitting on the valuable land that abuts transit corridors. It would end parking minimums and pave the way for skyscrapers around every subway stop in California, and along many big avenues as well.

https://slate.com/business/2018/01/california-bill-sb827-residential-zoning-transit-awesome.html

Comment by Lurker
2018-01-16 15:34:47

“At first glance, the bill is too radical to pass; California homeowners would revolt, or at least use their remaining local power to shut down a whole lot of bus routes.”

“Remaining local power.” Are they acknowledging that we, the citizens, have increasingly less and less power over what happens in our communities? Because it kinda sounds like they’re saying there’s some sort of agenda to chip away at our right to have a say in what happens where we live. And that darn little bit of “remaining power” to which we stubbornly cling is, like, totally getting in the way of their plans!

Like that clever line in Evita:

“How annoying that they have to /
fight elections for their cause /
The inconvenience! /
Having to get a majority /
If normal methods of persuasion /
fail to win them applause /
There are other ways /
of establishing authority”

 
 
Comment by El Tr0ll de Marquis
2018-01-16 11:20:24

That’s why I aleays roll my eyes when people say city x can’t possibly support these home prices because there are no jobs there. Jobs arent “there” anymore, they are everywhere and anywhere. Which is why I think small and mid sized cities will prosper over the next 10 to 20 years. Peiple don’t have to live in San Jose to work for a San Jose company. They can live in small town flyover land at 1/5 the cost while still earning 100% of the pay.

Comment by El Tr0ll de Marquis
2018-01-16 11:21:44

Hmmm that was meant as a reply to the working from home mini thread above. Weird.

Comment by jeff
2018-01-16 11:28:38

“Hmmm that was meant as a reply to the working from home mini thread above”

Uh oh that’s 7 years of bad luck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CFuCYNx-1g

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2018-01-16 11:42:11

Peiple don’t have to live in San Jose to work for a San Jose company. They can live in small town flyover land at 1/5 the cost while still earning 100% of the pay.

FWIW, even in my line of work, most employers still want you to come into the office. All cold calls that I get involve relocation. When I ask if I can telecommute, the answer is invariably “no”. I can telecommute at my current job, but that’s mostly because I’ve been there for 6+ years and the bosses know and trust me.

Comment by Rental Watch
2018-01-16 12:39:59

I can telecommute at my current job, but that’s mostly because I’ve been there for 6+ years and the bosses know and trust me.

My wife works for a company located hundreds of miles away…like you, it only works because of an existing relationship.

 
Comment by oxide
2018-01-16 15:20:09

most employers still want you to come into the office.

My prediction is that we’ll see a lot of companies fan out their divisions and subdivisions to smaller cities. Yes, people benefit from coming to the office in-person, but really, how big is your circle of co-workers that you interact with in person? 1000 max? Why have 50,000 in one spot if any given person only sees 2% of that?

Why not fan out over several cities? For example, if you have 20,000 in PA, put 5000 in Pittsburgh, 5000 in Philly, 2000 in Harrisburg, 2000 in Mannheim (where the Ren Faire is!), 2000 in the Poconos, 3000 in Erie, and the rest in Scranton. Plenty of land for everyone, plenty of roads to drive on, smaller cities revitalized, larger cities are not so crowded. And if you do need to visit another division, you’re a 3-4 hour drive away.

It’s not the same as working from home individually, but it does allow for cheaper cost of living for everyone.

Comment by Lurker
2018-01-16 15:55:52

This sounds like the America my parents grew up in, with a lot of prosperous smaller cities with multiple employers. But usually this was based on many small and mid-sized businesses spread across different cities and states rather than the consolidated mega-corporations the low-interest-rate M&A frenzy has wrought all congregating in the same few places.

It’s the basis of an equitable and diversified economy. But instead, we’ve spent the last few decades trying to copy the megacity model of the developing world, with a small number of huge and unequal megalopolises ringed by a desperate periphery within a 4-hour commute.

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Comment by Tea Party Patriot
2018-01-16 16:05:59

That sounds expensive for a business that has all those employees in one place. Corporations exist to make as much profit as possible, not to revitalize the small cities of Pennsylvania.

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Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-01-16 16:21:48

Smaller cities are dying. If you are not located near a large thriving urban hub or a credible higher education institution, you run the risk of suffering an existential crises.

Autonomous will continue to exacerbate the trend toward thriving urban areas as it will make commuting to the central hub less onerous.

 
 
Comment by El Tr0ll de Marquis
2018-01-16 16:21:10

Office space is extra bedroom or kitchen table. Everyone already has internet at home. Extra water cost? Lol, yeah those 4 extra flushes at home vs the office are killer on the budget man. Extra heating cost, i guess but its minimal.

And it’s more than worth it to save 2 jours of commute time every day plus the cost of gas and wear and tear on a car. Plus the lack of dealing with office politics BS is worth 100 times the extra water cost.

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Comment by MacBeth
2018-01-16 18:51:14

You are an evil individual, oxide. A degenerate, even.

How dare you suggest something that flies in the face of Agenda 21? You must be a commie or a fascist. Or SOMETHING. Geez.

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Comment by BlueSkye
2018-01-16 19:45:20

Why not fan out over several cities?

Lower impact. Lower cost of living for employees. Shorter commutes, maybe even walk to work.

Drawbacks might include having your boss suggest you mow your lawn more frequently or get that unlicensed car out of your driveway.

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Comment by Carl Morris
2018-01-16 19:35:57

FWIW, even in my line of work, most employers still want you to come into the office.

Yup. For one glorious shining moment (a few months actually) my job morphed into a “live anywhere” job. I was quite happy about it. Then I got laid off when the company ran out of money. I used all the negotiating power I had to try to get some flexibility in the new job before I took it.

Nope. “We need the experienced people here to help bring the new people up to speed”.

 
 
Comment by Tea Party Patriot
2018-01-16 12:05:45

portion of all jobs that allow for working from must be 1/100 or less

Comment by El Tr0ll de Marquis
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-01-16 13:31:56

I’m an evangelist for home workers. I can rattle off all the advantages for corporations and for employers. However, the trend is toward retrenchment. The big companies are now going in the opposite direction, including IBM which was a huge promoter of work at home:

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/why-are-big-companies-calling-their-remote-workers-back-office-n787101

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Comment by Lurker
2018-01-16 16:03:25

Isn’t telecommuting kind of like Uber, where companies transfer the liability of maintaining office space, internet connections, water, heat, ac, etc (for Uber, cars) to their employees without offering any monetary compensation for shouldering the extra risk and expense? And instead, employees are supposed to be grateful for the “increased flexibility”?

 
Comment by Tea Party Patriot
2018-01-16 16:08:15

As Colorado stated at 11:28:10, the employees save money on transportation costs as well as time spent travelling to and from the office.

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-01-16 16:27:02

Working at home has many more advantages. You save on wardrobe, time, wear and tear of vehicle, childcare, etc. Perhaps more importantly, it allows for a diversity of schedules. It can work, but there are hurdles to be overcome. Upper management is especially suspicious of productivity, so unless you have KPIs and can show that any gains in office space are not lost in reduced productivity, you probably won’t get buy-in from the C-suite. These days though, I think many companies are scaling back their telecommuters in order to avoid doing layoffs.

Increased flexibility is huge, especially for caretakers. I ran a large call center and I brought lots of stay-at-home mothers into the workforce. They had flex shifts and I was able to variably slot them into a larger schedule that gave them a supplemental income and also allowed them to have a family. There are lots of case studies on Jet Blue’s reservation agents. This is essentially the model I copied.

 
Comment by MacBeth
2018-01-16 19:00:56

There’s much narrow thinking on this board re: work at home and everyone-must-work-in-a-megalopolis mindset.

I’m rather disgusted with it, actually.

Sure, it makes great sense if you’re employed in the IT world.

What if you’re not employed in IT?

Would you say that all manufacturing employees should work from home? Doctors? Nurses? Teachers? Truckers? Grocers? Plumbers?

How do they work from home?

Oxide is very much correct on this. There is plenty of unused infrastructure in many small and medium sized cities that could easily be out to good use. Costs there are much less.

Who says those working in a small town should be paid $100K just like their coastal counterparts. That’s lunacy. Pay them $70K for equivalent work.

 
Comment by oxide
2018-01-16 19:24:22

I ran a large call center

Which can be — and was — outsourced to India in a heartbeat. If India was smart enough to teach their kids English with an American accent, your stay-at-home moms would be out of a job.

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-01-16 21:28:06

Which can be — and was — outsourced to India in a heartbeat. If India was smart enough to teach their kids English with an American accent, your stay-at-home moms would be out of a job.

Actually, that was tried in the 90s and it came back to bite companies who went that route in the rear. What they gained in cost savings was more than offset by a decrease in customer satisfaction and loyalty. Training, management, and logistics adds more layers to the bureaucracy. Everyone has a horror story of speaking from someone in India and the cultural disconnect caused massive damage to many blue chip companies brands. Off-shoring is losing momentum. Reshoring and near-sourcing has superseded outsourcing and has been going on for the past decade or longer. Since I lived in the greater Salt Lake City area, labor was cheap and the accent is generic enough that many high quality brands wanted set up shop there. There are stigmas about certain regional accents in the US, so not every low cost labor area is a candidate for a remote contact center. Plus, remote workers in rural Utah are much more competitive than urban workers along the Wasatch front.

Sure, there are still companies who want dirt cheap labor, but the fact is that labor has risen in many of the traditional call center locations (Philippines, India, Puerto Rico), so this makes the calculus not as good as it used to be.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2018-01-16 22:32:06

Would you say that all manufacturing employees should work from home? Doctors? Nurses? Teachers? Truckers? Grocers? Plumbers?

How do they work from home?

Some doctors can work remotely. Radiologists come to mind.

If you work at a desk, you can work remotely. Of course that also means your job can be offshored.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2018-01-16 22:34:04

Working at home has many more advantages. You save on wardrobe, time, wear and tear of vehicle, childcare, etc.

Considering the expense of commuting, especially in larger cities, telecommuting is a big win in that regard.

 
 
Comment by Tea Party Patriot
2018-01-16 15:53:28

You can find stuff that says about 3% telecommute. That article says that 31% of those whose telecommute telecommute for 80% to 100% of their work hours.

Also, people who put in 40 or more hours at the office and then log in from home at night and on the weekends are included in the telecommuting statistics.

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Comment by messagetorudy
2018-01-16 18:22:06

I can taste the bitterness! Lying on my bed doing a software build right now and getting paid!

The time I dont have to spend commuting (which is 20min one way, couple years ago double that) now gets spent riding my bike in the morning and surfing, swimming or hiking after work.

If this industry wasnt so corrupt I’d start my own company and employ people who lived wherever they please - a former boss does that with a few people I used to work with, and no complaints. Customers like their work which isnt the usual expensive rent-seeking solutions you get from the majors.

 
Comment by Tea Party Patriot
2018-01-16 18:47:07

Mafia Blocks would love that. First software guys call themselves engineers. Then they claim that they build things with their laptops!

 
Comment by In Colorado
2018-01-17 08:39:32

I can taste the bitterness! Lying on my bed doing a software build right now and getting paid!

Personally, I prefer to get out of bed before beginning my telecommute day, especially when launching a build is involved ;-)

 
 
 
 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-16 18:41:45

Get her back on topic ladies.

Charlton, MA Housing Prices CRATER 15% YOY

https://www.movoto.com/charlton-ma/market-trends/

Comment by oxide
2018-01-17 06:57:24

Working at home is very much on topic. W@H affects where people live which in turn affects the housing market. I’d bring you some Cheetos but those are off-topic.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-17 07:24:48

Hey Donk

Kensington, MD Housing Prices Crater 18% YOY

https://www.movoto.com/kensington-md/market-trends/

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2018-01-16 11:24:36

Mr. Luo said his real-estate agent told him that to find a buyer for his apartment now he would need to sell for half of what he paid. ‘I’d be short too much money,’ Mr. Luo said.”

OMG, that’s amazing—down 50%?? That sounds like things are finally getting started over there.

If you’ll be “short too much money” selling for half of what you paid, imagine how much shorter you’ll feel when you can only sell for a quarter of what you paid?

How do you say FB in Chinese?

 
Comment by SW
2018-01-16 12:19:28

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-its-so-hard-to-forecast-home-prices-for-2018-and-why-that-should-worry-you-2017-12-19

In the end, Loebs said, “I think that the market has not recovered. I think it has quite a ways to go and frankly the robust rate of appreciation in the last three years continues to mask a significant amount of uncertainty and risk,” he said.

“Anybody who’s a stakeholder in housing, whether a homeowner or aspiring homeowner or an institutional mortgage portfolio manager should be aware that things have not returned to normal and housing risk has certainly not abated.”

For example, the National Association of Realtors’ forecast was released before the details of the Republican tax plan came into focus. NAR has since warned that many of the plan’s provisions would take a bite out of home prices and could even revive some of the worst effects of the housing bust by pushing recent home buyers, who’ve made low down payments to purchase a home, under water.

“I think about the impact that some of these more recent popular narratives have had and the signals that social media can send to misdirect peoples’ thinking,” Loebs told MarketWatch. “There was a narrative a few years ago that millennials just suddenly lost all appetite to someday become homeowners, and there was this permanent shift among young people to be renters and work in the gig economy. A lot of the media just went with that and it wasn’t based on foundational research, just a few narratives.”

 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2018-01-16 12:55:28

Redmond, WA Housing Prices Crater 5% YOY On Ballooning Housing Inventory

https://www.zillow.com/redmond-wa/home-values/

*Select price from dropdown menu on first chart

Comment by redmondjp
2018-01-16 14:30:04

Keep on lying there HA. Inventory is at record low levels.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-16 15:57:27

Hello my good friend….

Seattle, WA (Capitol Hill) Housing Prices Crater 8 % YOY On Mushrooming Housing Inventory

https://www.zillow.com/capitol-hill-seattle-wa/home-values/

https://snag.gy/m5EzRB.jpg

Comment by azdude
2018-01-16 16:31:37

u need to put the whiskey down!

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Comment by trader jack
2018-01-16 13:00:11

I have always thought that the idea of a home being an investment made little sense.
It produces nothing that you can sell, it consumes resources like mad, and, it , the way homes are built today, does not last the lifetime needed, without continuous investment of funds.

Further, it can not be expected to produce wealth on demand, because refinancing does not increase the worth of the home.

And valuation of the worth is done by people with various objectives in mind.

I was an appraiser for 30 years and I was completed disgusted when some appraisers would estimate economic valuation and show an estimate down to the penny, (economic depreciation is $25,250.11)

almost as bad a real estate sale persons, (the property will appreciate
5% a year and in 30 years the property will be worth 4 times as much)

And I had a broker’s license. LOL

Comment by BlackSwandive
2018-01-16 19:40:45

Appraisers are nothing but hit the numbers hacks. They’re no longer needed.

 
 
Comment by Anonymous
2018-01-16 13:32:28

A trip down memory lane…

Ross Perot at the 1992 Presidential debate: A giant sucking sound of jobs going south. The job exodus would not end until the cost of manufacturing on either side of the border became generally equal. And that, of course, would only happen after their wages came up and ours went down.

Everyone laughed at him. But he was 100% correct.

https://youtu.be/Rkgx1C_S6ls

Comment by Apartment 401
2018-01-16 14:38:35

Globalists gonna globe.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2018-01-16 14:07:18

Is today the day? Is it go time? Is this sucker finally going down?

Comment by Professor Bear
2018-01-16 15:01:09

Oh, the humanity…

Every one of the top 100 cryptos is getting hammered, except for these two
Published: Jan 16, 2018 4:15 p.m. ET
Two lesser-known coins are drawing buyers
Getty
Not everything is down in the crypto space today.
By Shawn Langlois
Social-media editor

Spooked by potential regulatory crackdowns around the world, investors unloaded cryptocurrencies in a big way on Tuesday: Bitcoin (BTCUSD, -24.42%) down 18%. Ripple off 30%. Ethereum 20%… poof!

And the list of losses goes on and on.

Comment by Mr. Banker
2018-01-16 15:48:05

Bahahahaha … it’s time to go long on KY jelly.

Very long. Bahahahahahahahahaha.

Comment by MWR
2018-01-16 18:31:52

too funny!!

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Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-16 17:57:18

Bitcoin drops 28% below $10,000 on Coinbase; ethereum crashes 30% in 24 hours
Bitcoin temporarily tumbles 28 percent to below $10,000 on Coinbase.
Ethereum briefly drops more than 30 percent over the last 24 hours.
Ripple, the third-largest digital currency by market capitalization, briefly drops 46 percent below $1, according to CoinMarketCap.
Evelyn Cheng | @chengevelyn
Published 2 Hours Ago Updated 1 Hour Ago
CNBC.com

Bitcoin briefly plunged below $10,000 late Tuesday afternoon on Coinbase, after first topping the psychologically key level in late November.

Other major digital currencies also sold off sharply. Digital currency ethereum plunged 30 percent Tuesday, to below $1,000, while ripple fell below $1.

Ethereum recovered the $1,000 level as of 6:03 p.m. ET. Less than half an hour ago, the digital currency traded on Coinbase near $964, or 26 percent lower over the last 24 hours, after hitting a low of $854 earlier in the afternoon. Coinbase is the leading U.S. marketplace for trading bitcoin, ethereum, litecoin and bitcoin cash.

Comment by Rental Watch
2018-01-16 19:10:16

The funny thing is that I’m not surprised with the crash, but I did expect it to go higher before it crashed.

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Comment by BlackSwandive
2018-01-16 19:59:21

These “key levels” are a joke. In fact, this entire mania is nothing but madness.

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Comment by Lesser Fool
2018-01-17 00:51:30

Yeah I never understood why $10,000 would be a “key level”. They said the same thing about Dow 15,000 and 20,000. And about Amazon/Google hitting $1,000. Are these somehow key because they cause more buying if they are crossed on the way up, and more selling on the way down? If so, why?

 
Comment by Mr. Banker
2018-01-17 04:22:14

These “key levels” are psychological levels. People say to themselves “I will buy (or sell) whenever the price gets to (a psychological price)” and thus there is a lot of action at these prices.

Psychological prices are prices that humans think of and nothing else is special about them. People will think of, say, buying/selling at $10,000 rather than buying/selling at $10,013 thus the $10,000 price gets all the action.

 
 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2018-01-16 15:10:39

Guess not, lol. So why all the heavy breathing about a little pissant drop in the stock market?

 
Comment by ibbots
2018-01-16 15:47:00

It is Mark Cuban’s fault:

Mavericks owner and tech entrepreneur Mark Cuban tweeted “next season” after a Twitter user asked him Tuesday when fans of the National Basketball Association team would be able to purchase tickets with Bitcoin.

“And we will be taking Ether as well. As far as tokens, we will be taking tokens originated by companies we have business relationships.”

Comment by palmetto
2018-01-16 17:05:34

LOL, my buddy has been trying to get a situation fixed regarding a btc transaction that has been floating in the ethers for close to two months. Today they gave him back three times what he had put in???? So his btc holdings went up substantially. This is the kind of crazy stuff that goes on.

However, I was just reading with Overstock.com is operating a cryptocurrency exchange called tZERO now and is compliant with the SEC, so there may actually be a stable exchange out there now.

Comment by BlueSkye
2018-01-16 19:52:53

Don’t spend so much time in the looney bin old friend.

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Comment by alphonso bedoya
2018-01-16 22:30:17

Palmetto

South Korea put NEO on their currency exchange yesterday giving it legitimacy.
NEO, however, is problematic/dangerous for people outside of the China sphere to hold.

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Comment by palmetto
2018-01-17 07:28:49

Seems like SoKo is driving a lot of the current action. However, anything in the China sphere is verboten for me.

 
Comment by palmetto
2018-01-17 08:08:01

Interesting geopolitical developments in Asia going on right now:

“North And South Korea Agree To Form Joint Team, Will March Together At Olympic Opening Ceremony”

This is a strong signal, IMO. Watch for the Koreas to ultimately unite as a nation state, presided over by China. Kim retires in luxury and anonymity, except for certain state occasions where he is lauded as a symbol of peace and unity who stood up to the US.

Taiwan will, perhaps, be ceded to US influence as a token concession.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2018-01-17 10:37:57

I agree it’s a strong signal. One leadership style (popular in the military) is to be a big jerk and cause the underlings who normally squabble amongst themselves to unite in their dislike of you. Trump may have actually pulled that off if this continues.

But I think there’s no way the Koreas will willingly be “presided over” by China. And no way China will give up on retaking Taiwan. It’s not a trading token to them. It would be great to be proven wrong but I can’t see it.

 
 
Comment by alphonso bedoya
2018-01-16 22:49:32

You want to avoid TZero ICO. A third platform has little chance to survive after today’s action.

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Comment by palmetto
2018-01-17 07:35:26

Sigh, poor Patrick. Seems like a decent chap who is a day late and a dollar short.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2018-01-16 16:00:00

Carlton, OR Housing Prices Crater 6% YOY On Plunging Housing Demand

https://www.zillow.com/carlton-or/home-values/

*Select price from dropdown menu on first chart

 
Comment by Mr. Banker
2018-01-16 16:33:27

Today I tried to sell my twelve year old paperboy on the idea and the merits of owning Bitcoin and because of that I now have to pay him each month in advance.

 
Comment by Lurker
2018-01-16 17:21:06

In honor of the title of today’s post, I thought it might be informative to start a running total of price declines mentioned here since Jan 1, 2018. Please let me know if I missed any.

Percentage Purchase Price Declines Mentioned on HBB, 2018 so far. In descending order:

* -68% [Vermont, mansion from list to foreclosure auction]
* -60% in Beijing, suburbs (since March 2017)
* -40% to - 60% Dubai, off-plan developer discount
* -44% [Pacific Palisades, house from list to sold]
* -30% Fort Nelson, BC (yoy 2017)
* -20% to -40% Beirut
* -5.8% to -26.2% Manhattan, condos $10mil+
* -22% [London, Blackfriars condo resale]
* -10 to -20% South Florida, luxury new development discount
* -19% Manhattan, Upper West Side (yoy Jan)
* -18% Manhattan, co-ops with 3 or more bedrooms (yoy Jan)
* -17% Sydney, Darling Point and Point Piper (yoy Jan)
* -17% Manhattan, new development
* -15% Manhattan, Upper East Side (yoy Jan)
* -14.4% London, Fulham (since 2014)
* -12% Manhattan, condos with 3+ bedrooms (yoy Jan)
* -8.9% Toronto (last 7 months before Jan 1)
* -7.8% Sweden (last 3 months before Jan 1)
* -6.5% Vancouver, detached
* -6.2% Oslo (yoy Jan)
* -4% Regina (yoy Jan)
* -4% Manhattan, co-ops (third quarter to fourth quarter 2017)
* -2.1% Sydney (last 3 months before Jan 1)
* -2.1% Norway (yoy Jan)

[Indicates single sales, may not reflect overall market]
(Time range indicated when info available)

Comment by azdude
2018-01-16 17:41:05

what do they have in common?

Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-16 21:16:16

Real estate always goes down!

 
 
Comment by alphonso bedoya
2018-01-16 21:06:02

A terrific list.

Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-01-16 21:32:38

I like this Lurker, I hope you keep this up and repost from time to time it as the year goes on.

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2018-01-16 23:26:50

I’ve been watching the $750K-$1M market in Portland, as everyone who thought they had a $450K house in 2007 now thinks they have an $800K+ house, plus I think that range is the next bellwether here.

I’ve seen drops of 10-15% in many cases.

(BTW, when checking the spelling of “bellwether” this definition came up: “The term is derived from the Middle English bellewether and refers to the practice of placing a bell around the neck of a castrated ram (a wether) leading the flock of sheep.” Seems fitting…)

 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2018-01-16 18:14:42

Lone Tree, CO Housing Prices Crater 7% YOY As Colorado Housing Correction Expands

https://www.movoto.com/lone-tree-co/market-trends/

 
Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-16 21:18:00

Do falling asset prices somewhat relive the Fed of the need to raise interest rates?

Comment by alphonso bedoya
2018-01-16 22:10:23

Does one need to raise interest rates to lower them later when the economy weakens?

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-17 06:10:25

Rising rates are an indication of a strengthening economy, not a weak one.

Comment by azdude
2018-01-17 06:26:21

If they raise rates stick a fork in all the asset bubbles.

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Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-01-17 06:41:58

$hitHousePoet…. bubbles implode irrespective of rates. Just like they are right now.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-16 23:45:43

POOF!

10 Biggest Crypto-Currencies Lose Over $100 Billion in 24 Hours
Here Are 3 Risks of Investing in Cryptocurrency
If you’re planning on investing in cryptocurrency, check out these 3 risks you could be taking with your money.
By Jeff John Roberts
January 16, 2018

Bitcoin and other digital currencies have always been volatile, so a big daily drop is not unusual. That said, Tuesday was a particularly ugly day for crypto investors as every major currency fell by anywhere from 15% to 28%.

A back-of-the-envelope calculation by Fortune shows that the top 10 currencies had collectively lost $108 billon in 24 hours as of 3 pm ET on Tuesday.

To put this in perspective, that figure is roughly equivalent to a quarter of the value of Amazon or Berkshire Hathaway, or about the total value of McDonalds or Boeing, according to data from PWC.

Comment by azdude
2018-01-17 06:27:27

they had it coming. get rich quick schemes. transfer of wealth.

 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2018-01-17 06:49:35

Henderson, NV (Foothills) Housing Prices Crater 7% YOY As Housing Correction Looms

https://www.zillow.com/foothills-henderson-nv/home-values/

*Select price from dropdown menu on first chart

 
Comment by azdude
2018-01-17 07:13:32

i wonder if it has been central bank policies to make sure there is yield in stocks so folks at least have something. It protects their portfolio from people searching for yield in bonds.

 
Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-01-17 07:39:58

Did you buy the dead cat bounce in crypto?

Wait a minute…it turns out that some dead cats don’t bounce.

Finance
Bitcoin falls below $10,000 as cryptocurrency ‘bloodbath’ enters a 2nd day
Business Insider UK
Oscar Williams-Grut
Markets Insider
- Bitcoin falls below $10,000, down 12%, and Ethereum breaks $1,000 to trade 15% lower.
- Russian President Vladimir Putin is proposing tighter regulation of the cryptocurrency space.

LONDON - Bitcoin fell to a six-week low on Wednesday as global cryptocurrency markets entered the second day of a sell-off.

Major coins are registering double-digit percentage falls. Bitcoin was down 12% to $9,936.69, while Ethereum plunged 16% to $884.68, at 11.55 a.m. GMT (6:55 a.m. ET), according to data on Markets Insider.

“Despite the fact that bitcoin has almost halved from its peak of $19,800 reached mid-December, it still remains 1100% higher than it was 12 months ago,” City Index’s Simon Revington said in an email. “However, we could be seeing an important loss of momentum, especially given that Bitcoin hasn’t traded above $15,000 since Tuesday. $10,000 level is an important junction because it is a huge psychological level.”

All of the major cryptocurrencies suffered double-digit falls on Tuesday in what commentators described as a cryptocurrency “bloodbath.” The sell-off was thought to be triggered by concerns about regulation in the Asian market.

Ripple, the third-biggest cryptocurrency, was down almost 10% on Wednesday lunchtime, while bitcoin cash, the fourth-biggest cryptocurrency, fell 8%.

You can follow all the like cryptocurrency price movements on Markets Insider.

The continued slump comes amid reports that Russia could be about to impose stricter regulations on the sector. The Russian news service TASS reported last week that Russian President Vladimir Putin said “legislative regulation will be definitely required in future” for cryptocurrencies.

“It is known that the cryptocurrency is not backed by anything. It cannot be a store of value. No material valuables are behind it and it is not secured by anything. It can be a settlement medium to a certain degree and in certain situations. This is done quickly and efficiently,” Putin said, according to TASS. He compared cryptocurrencies to shared equity construction schemes. Putin’s comments were picked up by the widely read cryptocurrency news website CoinDesk on Wednesday.

Comment by BlueSkye
2018-01-17 08:31:42

An amazing study in pure mania.

Out of nothing, and headed back there like a rocket.

Comment by palmetto
2018-01-17 08:36:17

Kind of like the US dollar, although its extinction path is quite a bit slower.

Comment by BlueSkye
2018-01-17 09:28:54

I’m not worried about having too much USD. Not yet.

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