We’re Losing Money Galore!
A weekend topic on manias starting with CBS SF Bay in California. “With the ever-escalating Bay Area real estate regularly hitting new levels of insanity, with residential homes selling for seven-times higher than the national average with the average price of about $1.6 million. The house, located in the Pacific Heights neighborhood, just sold for $9.6 million. That’s $1.6 million over the asking price. The property tax alone is nearly double the median household income and far more than what most U.S. families make in a year. Patrick Carlisle, the chief market analyst with Paragon Real Estate, admitted it is impossible to predict when the cycle will turn, he said there’s one thing that all downturns have in common. ‘It’s called irrational exuberance. People get to this belief that it’s never going to end,’ explained Carlisle.”
From Realtor.com on Nevada. “Las Vegas isn’t just surviving—it’s thriving. The city, hit hard by the Great Recession, has rebounded, emerging as one of the hottest real estate markets in the country. Broker Brian Kyle shares the same sentiments about the scorching market right now in the desert. He says homes in nice shape priced under $300,000 are getting multiple offers the day they land on the market. ‘We are back to pre-recession excitement level,’ he says, ‘although the foundation of this real estate market is completely different from where we were back then.’”
The Star Tribune in Minnesota. “Last month, the average price per square foot of a new house in the metro was $166, about 18 percent more than an existing one, according to the Minneapolis Area Association of Realtors. In 2012, the price gap per square foot between new and existing houses peaked at 31.3 percent. That gap has slowly narrowed largely because existing home prices are rising swiftly. Mark Gianopulos, Midwest region director for Metrostudy, said the Twin Cities had the highest level of annual single-family permits of any urban area in the Midwest during the first quarter of the year. ”
“He said the median closing price for a new single-family detached home in the Twin Cities is the highest in the Midwest at $416,960. However, as builders try to cater to buyers on a budget, they are trying to control costs by cutting back on size and amenities. Since the second quarter of 2015, the median price of those new houses has remained relatively flat. ‘The housing market in the Twin Cities continues to show unbridled strength even with the recent modest economic factors,’ Gianopulos said.”
From Market Watch. “On Wednesday, famed real estate investor Sam Zell spoke at an industry gathering for real estate investment trusts. ‘Today, we see a multifamily market that is catching new supply for the first time, frankly, since before the Great Recession. We probably built 480-500,000 units last year, the last time we built that many units in one year that was 1971 when the multifamily market was growing from scratch. We’ve created a lot of supply.’”
“‘In some urban markets, like New York, you see oversupply and dipping rents, and maybe creating concessions, but basically of a relatively small nature because there is no ability to overrun an urban market with oversupply. Not so with suburban markets. I think over the next 12-18 months we’re going to see oversupply particularly in the suburban markets that are going to make multifamily less attractive from a bottom line point of view than it has been up to now.’”
“What about retail? ‘The best description I can give you is a falling knife.’”
From Senior Housing News. “Large private equity firms might have an advantage in seizing the urban opportunity, given that they are flush with capital. Activity should start to pick up in the the second half of 2018 and remain elevated into 2019, predicted Robb Chapin, CEO of Bridge Seniors Housing Fund Manager. One reason is that some markets became overbuilt during the recent senior housing construction boom; the fierce competition now is leading to distressed properties. These will be coming on the market in increasing numbers.”
From Farm Forum. “North Dakota land values declined approximately 1 percent, based on the 2018 County Rents and Prices Report survey funded by the North Dakota Department of Trust Lands. The Kansas City Federal Reserve Agricultural Credit Survey reports land values down approximately 3 percent in the first quarter of 2018, for irrigated and non-irrigated farmland in Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma and parts of Missouri.”
“In North Dakota, the 1 percent decline continues a slow downward trend for land values statewide that first was seen in the 2015 report and continued through 2017. Values declined 0.57 percent, 3.95 percent and 0.91 percent, respectively, to $1,996 per acre. The survey data indicate that for the first time since 2003, the northwestern region experienced a decline in farmland values, falling 9.81 percent from $1,230 to $1,110 per acre. This represents the greatest decline of any region in the state. Rents in the Red River Valley counties declined 5 percent, with the southern Red River Valley counties falling from $124.60 to $118.20 per acre. Northern Red River valley counties fell 10 percent, from $89.60 to $80.80 per acre.”
“Rising interest rates put additional downward pressure on farmland as outside investment opportunities begin to look more favorable. While the bulk of farmland is purchased by farmers, a sizable share is purchased by investors.”
“Bryon Parman, North Dakota State University Extension agricultural finance specialist concludes, ‘The exact proportions of land purchased by investors versus traditional farmers is difficult to discern. However, even if as little as 10 to 15 percent is investor-purchased, should they look to sell, or at least no longer view farmland as a favorable investment, it’s likely to have a significant impact on land moving forward. Especially if bond yields rise much faster than capitalization on farmland, investors will most likely look at investments in other markets yielding better returns.’”
The North Shore News in Canada. “What was supposed to be a non-political town hall Thursday evening in West Vancouver took on angry, political overtones as the near-capacity Kay Meek crowd blasted the NDP’s forthcoming school tax. Noting the flagging real estate market and the plethora of homes selling for less than assessed value, Realtor Allan Angell dubbed the situation: ‘a nightmare.’”
“‘The NDP should be shot,’ he said, before being interrupted by applause and shouts of ‘hear, hear!’ ‘We’re losing money galore’ Angell continued. ‘My house has dropped $1.5 million in five months.’”
“Simon Fraser University professor Andrey Pavlov suggested that overall tax increases are hurting affordability. ‘If you’re a buyer, the fact that the home price is cheaper does nothing to help you.’”
“Fellow panellist Seain Conover concurred, addressing the argument that homeowners were only being asked to pay ‘a little bit’ more. ‘That’s a very disingenuous argument because when you pile on a whole bunch of expenses to an asset, the asset becomes less desirable,’ he said.”
From ABC News on Australia. “Australia’s Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB) reported this week that foreign residential real estate approvals dropped significantly in the 2016-17 period. Whereas 2015-16 saw 40,149 approvals granted, totalling $72.4 billion, the figure for the following year was just 13,198 approvals, totalling $25.2 billion. On these numbers, the foreign property investment boom looks to be over.”
“Chinese demand may have been weakened by a range of factors, including the new FIRB application fees, Chinese overseas direct investment capital controls, and the changing global economy. But if the cycle is moving from boom towards bust, we have learned several things along the way. Between 2013 and 2017, property developers, both local and foreign, regularly contacted me to ask if I had any up-to-date research on foreign investors’ consumer preferences and market forecasts. I did not. But there was no shortage of advice out there, covering everything from feng shui-informed housing design to the key needs of foreign university students.”
“Some global real estate agents suggested to their clients that they could buy an Australian home to accommodate their child while they were studying at an Australian university, and then use the capital gain from the property sale to pay back the tuition fees. Many property developers were formulating medium- to long-term development pipelines that included the foreign capital and consumer preferences of foreign investors. It is unclear, now, whether much of this housing stock will ever be built. If it is, will it suit the changing future needs of our cities, or address our ongoing housing affordability problems?”
“In other words, what sorts of properties will be left as the legacy of the recent foreign real estate investment mania?”
From the Courier Mail in Australia. “Tenants are the big winners of the apartment building boom as median rents across many popular suburbs go backwards. Weekly median rents in Newstead, Bulimba, Milton and Fortitude Valley have all dropped by between 9 per cent and 10.6 per cent over two years. Increasing supply is a big cause of the drop, and in Bulimba the number of units has increased to 1525 from 1454 two years ago. ‘And directly across the road from me they are building another big unit complex,’ said Bulimba renter Zoe Knight.”
“While it may be a renter’s market, the drops had hit investors hard, according to Propertyology’s Simon Pressley. ‘The softening of rents in Brisbane is not new unfortunately,’ Mr Pressley said. ‘It has been progressively unfolding for three odd years, and the main cause of it is way too many apartments.’”
“Rents for houses had also taken a dive across many popular Brisbane suburbs over the past two years. The median rental price in West End was $550 in March, down from $605 at the same time two years ago, despite the number of houses not changing greatly. ‘If you have too many of any dwelling type it can often have a knock-on effect to all dwelling types,’ Mr Pressley said.”
‘Simon Fraser University professor Andrey Pavlov suggested that overall tax increases are hurting affordability. ‘If you’re a buyer, the fact that the home price is cheaper does nothing to help you.’
We’ll just let that hang out there Andy.
‘Realtor Allan Angell dubbed the situation: ‘a nightmare.’ ‘We’re losing money galore’ Angell continued. ‘My house has dropped $1.5 million in five months.’
Funny how when it was going up a million a year they had no problem.
‘Fellow panellist Seain Conover concurred, addressing the argument that homeowners were only being asked to pay ‘a little bit’ more. ‘That’s a very disingenuous argument because when you pile on a whole bunch of expenses to an asset, the asset becomes less desirable’
Remember when we were told that more expenses, like construction costs, justified the higher prices? Even of shacks built 30 years ago. This whining shows that most people are greedy bashtards and all this talk about “we need to build more to bring down prices” is a bunch of hog-wash.
Something for the DegenerateGamblers to think about seeing as we and our competitors are profitable at $50/sq ft(lot, labor, materials and profit).
Arcadia, CA Housing Prices Crater 13% YOY As Los Angeles Area Construction Costs Plunge And Rental Rates Tank
https://www.movoto.com/arcadia-ca/market-trends/
That’s the thing about mania, calculating the risks and costs never enter into it. Welcome to Cherry Plums Falling from the Sky.
Also, when prices go down very often the Taxes don’t.
Local taxing authorities are often quick to find ways raise taxes and thus revenue in an appreciating market, they are naturally loathe to lower their own income.
Many taxing jurisdictions use a system of setting the overall budget, then dividing the bills up to each property based on it’s percentage of the total of the assessed values of all the properties in the jurisdiction. House prices can collapse by 50% for everyone from one year to the next, and even have the valuations goes down 50% with them, but if the county or whatever had already approved a 10% budget increase, everyone’s taxes are still going up. The only change people see is if their property changes value relative to their neighbors.
Another component of taxes that’s often not subject to valuation are special assessments that get voted on, depending on how they were worded / designed. Things like paying for a $400 Million overrun on bridge construction, or $80K in administration costs per homeless person.
And we haven’t even gotten to Pensions and retirement benefits that have to be paid out yet…
And we haven’t even gotten to Pensions and retirement benefits that have to be paid out yet…
Eventually, you run out of other people’s money to spend.
Where does it cost $80k/yr in administration costs per homeless person?
“And we haven’t even gotten to Pensions and retirement benefits that have to be paid out yet…”
“Congressional Budget Office projections show that within 18 years, entitlements spending will absorb all US federal tax revenues leaving no revenues even for interest expense on the debt and for the military.” —Dr H. Woody Brock, President and founder of Strategic Economic Decisions
On the other hand, when has the CBO gotten anything right?
‘Some global real estate agents suggested to their clients that they could buy an Australian home to accommodate their child while they were studying at an Australian university, and then use the capital gain from the property sale to pay back the tuition fees.’
Why stop there? Use the capital gains to fund a world wide cruise too! While we’re just making sh$t up, use the imaginary profits these UHS created to buy more shacks in Vancouver.
‘My house has dropped $1.5 million in five months.’
Huh. The press up there is still saying prices are going to the moon.
Your house didn’t drop $1.5 million, your kid’s tuition rose by $1.5 million.
Stupidity has opportunity costs.
The lure of free money is powerful, especially when “everyone is doing it.”
I recall a convo on this board just before the previous crash. Someone was commenting that practically no one in his immediate social circle had a real job. Some flipped houses, others were involved in fly by night businesses, such as hauling away trash from constructions sites or reselling stuff they found at garage sales on Ebay.
Once again, this is why you never listen to financial advice from a sales person.
’some markets became overbuilt during the recent senior housing construction boom; the fierce competition now is leading to distressed properties. These will be coming on the market in increasing numbers’
Unless you read these senior housing publications, or the HBB, you’d never know this was going on.
Does this refer soley to assisted living facilities or does it refer to other housing types aimed at Seniors?
“Jerry, we found an untapped target market!”
So did Larry, Harry, Barry, and…
So glad you’re keeping a sense of humor amidst your financial calamity.
He’s having a financial calamity? Say it ain’t so, Spiffy!
I believe he bought a house in the apex of the housing bubble. He’ll be fine no doubt.
He has made it abundantly clear that he can afford the $500k+ loss in equity that is baked into the cake on Mercer, as he will pay the house off in short order. However, that is quite a chunk of change to just piss away.
DegenerateGamblers always win.
Oh. Well, as I recall, it was a rent vs buy decision for him, and understandable in that part of the country. If he can afford it, that’s his business. I follow the Greenwich, CT market a little bit. It’s amazing to me how many of the higher priced homes (higher priced in Greenwich is over 2-3 million bucks, cough-cough) sell for less (millions less, in many cases) these days than what the owners originally paid, but most apparently can afford the hit.
If he’s planning on living there and not flipping, and can afford it, I don’t see what the problem is.
the $500k+ loss…
I don’t see what the problem is…
I do.
‘nice shape priced under $300,000 are getting multiple offers the day they land on the market. ‘We are back to pre-recession excitement level’
I’m actually kinda sad about what’s going on in Las Vegas. They got their asses kicked and now the REIC is going back for more. Disgraceful.
Las Vegas, NV 89109 Housing Prices Crater 10% YOY As Flippers Slash Prices —-> https://bit.ly/2JcOzUY
https://www.zillow.com/las-vegas-nv-89109/home-values/
https://snag.gy/m5EzRB.jpg
But what about the over $300,000 homes?
As all your reporting is making clear, it’s “entry level” homes, or whatever passes for them these days is where the demand is, and where the supply isn’t.
If you could graph that “excitement level” on one axis and price on the other at a national level, you would see a perfect falloff curve. There are pockets of locations where the price threshold is higher, but the buyer pool is a proportionately smaller segment of the population.
There’s no shortage of housing, just affordable housing, so people fight over what little supply does show up.
Oh wait… excitement in one segment means all of housing is just doing great. amiright?
Yeah. And large drops in one segment (like ultra-luxury) means all of housing is going to crater too.
Hey Donk
…affordable housing, so people fight over what little supply does show up.
Actually I disagree. People have been fighting over skyrocketing housing, to get on the gravy train. I had no trouble obtaining affordable housing because I wasn’t looking for appreciation, only low expenses,
Potomac Falls, VA Housing Prices Crater 17% YOY As NoVA/DC Housing Market Folds Like A Cheap Suit
https://www.movoto.com/potomac-falls-va/market-trends/
sometimes the headlines write themselves….
https://www.chicksonright.com/2018/06/02/guess-what-crystal-methvin-just-got-arrested-for/
They want to build even more high rise apartment buildings in downtown Denver:
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/06/10/downtown-denver-plan-sets-guidelines-for-a-new-dense-neighborhood-atop-a-sea-of-parking-and-elitchs-that-could-house-thousands/
The article is behind a paywall. Are these going to be luxury? Why build a plain-jane apartment for $700 rent, when you can toss in a dog-washing station, jack the rent to $1500, and get the gov pitch in $800 of that? It’s free money. Meanwhile, it’s the Denver middle class who are getting that $800 stripped out of their paychecks in one way or another.
The article, while very long, was short on details.
I’m guessing the plan is for them to be pricey:
That said, there is some virtue signalling:
We’ll see just how many aren’t “luxury” units. I suppose that this plan might die on the vine as soon as the crash hits, even though Revesco has already purchased the land, which is mostly the Elitch Gardens amusement park and a bunch of parking lots around the Pepsi center.
No amount of deep diving is going to show them that there is any profit in affordable housing, unless they lobby the local gov to pony up for it.
I have no idea of how much it costs to build high rises, though I suspect they cost more than a shack as they aren’t make of sticks and particle board.
And while there are new jobs in downtown Denver, there aren’t that many.
Addison, TX Housing Prices Crater 13% YOY As Housing Demand Falls To 20 Year Low
https://www.movoto.com/addison-tx/market-trends/
dum de dum de dummmmbbbb
https://www.wsj.com/articles/auto-lenders-ramp-up-risk-to-win-more-customers-1528639200
Sometimes for kicks I look online at the inventory at local auto dealerships, which are chock full of cars costing 30K, 40K or more. And I always wonder “who’s buying these cars and trucks?”
Sure, you can get a no frills compact for about 20K, but those are a minority in the inventory.
“Also in the first quarter, new car loans originated with repayment periods of between 73 and 84 months represented more than a third of total new car loans, up from 7% of loans in late 2009.”
This is precisely how new car prices were able to increase so much - extended payment terms.
I’m seeing a lot more people in Beamers and Audis lately. I’m sure most of them are leased.
The domestic brand dealers seem to have mostly pickup trucks on the lot, and $40K+ SUVs, with a handful of sedans. As we already know, in the US Ford is for all practical purposes getting out of the sedan business. GM is also very focused on SUVs and trucks, though they haven’t given cars the boot yet.
Social media has made people even more materialistic when natural resources are running out. People need to be buying more fuel efficient vehicles not large SUVs. A few Tesla’s bought for virtue signally purposes will not dent oil consumption. Ironically they are only bought due to the masses not being able to afford them.
Gas is now over $3/gallon. Ford probably needs to drop SUVs too and concentrate only on trucks — and only then on trucks which are actually used to haul stuff. Toyota seems to have a leg up on vanity trucks, at least in blue states.
Donk,
With a globe chock full of oil and falling demand, For isn’t going to do anything.
“Ford probably needs to drop SUVs too…”
The big three have got to be making out like bandits on their SUVs. The used luxury coupe/sedans (think leather, etc.) are where the great deals currently are, IMHO.
Nobody wants sedans anymore, no matter what fuel prices are doing. SUVs and crossovers ARE the new sedans. And, they get similar mileage.
Manufacturers aren’t wrong to abandon sedans, but they need to focus more on fuel mileage rather than horsepower. Most of these new vehicles are pumping out well in excess of 300 hp. The mpg/hp is higher than it’s ever been, but they need to realize that they have achieved plenty of power so their efforts would be better spent on fuel efficiency.
Instead, they seem to be hell-bent on engaging in power wars. That will be their demise.
Instead, they seem to be hell-bent on engaging in power wars. That will be their demise.
But as long as J6P has Yellenbucks to spend, that’s what he wants. The problem is that demand will shut off like a lightswitch as soon as the credit is shut off. Thus the demise you speak of. But until then, they have to make what the customer wants.
SUVs and crossovers ARE the new sedans. And, they get similar mileage.
Not the 300 HP SUVs.
300 HP?
’tis but a child’s toy compared to the 707hp Jeep Trackhawk, the world’s most powerful SUV!
For a cool $95k you can be the first one on your block to go 0-60 in 3.5 seconds
That’s precisely what I’m talking about, ibbots. That is a ridiculous product that they spent money engineering.
“Rents for houses had also taken a dive across many popular Brisbane suburbs over the past two years. The median rental price in West End was $550 in March, down from $605 at the same time two years ago, despite the number of houses not changing greatly. ‘If you have too many of any dwelling type it can often have a knock-on effect to all dwelling types,’ Mr Pressley said.”
I lived in west end in the early 80s, went to school there. It was pretty middling back then and in 2000 I took a detour from a work gig/vacation to visit the old hood. Run down, looked like something from the cartoon Aqua Teen Hunger Force. It was a largely greek population when I attended school there (they tried to teach it, it didnt take for me) but by 2000 it was mostly asian with a few holdouts. I remember a greek shop owner giving me the evil eye as I walked by his store front as only a greek person with giant hairy caterpillars for eyebrows could - make a good sesame street puppet. I almost wanted to find something to throw through his front window just so he would have a reason to justify the stink eye.
Pro-tip - the farther away from the water you are, the more “hood” the place is. So all west sides on an east facing coast are sketch, while the reverse is true on a west facing coast.
Meatwad out!
Speaking of eyebrows, check out the brows on Justin Trudeau:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-10/internet-mesmerized-lowbrow-trudeau-humor
What say you? Has he been using brow toupees or is it just an uneven distribution of eyebrow hair?
Trump and company are talking to Trudeau like that cop in Thelma & Louise talked to Brad Pitt in the interrogation room.
“Your misery is gonna be my goddamn mission in life!”
Are you one of those smog environmentalists who thinks they are saving trees by using a Kindle?
Underpaid and exhausted: the human cost of your Kindle
In the Chinese city of Hengyang, we find a fatigued, disposable workforce assembling gadgets for Amazon, owned by the world’s richest man.
by Gethin Chamberlain in Hengyang, China
Sat 9 Jun 2018 17.11 EDT
…
All those factories behind enemy lines and people still wonder why the globalists are just insane about stopping Trump
“smog” environmentalists?
“Smug,” maybe?
“The property tax alone is nearly double the median household income and far more than what most U.S. families make in a year.”
Is property tax still deductible in California under the Trump tax law?
From today’s
“call it the ’stupidity of the American voter’ or whatever”
File
Parkland students (cough cough) show up and sound better than award winners.
Tony Awards: Parkland students’ emotional performance brings audience to its feet
By Allyson Chiu
June 11 at 2:14 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/06/11/tony-awards-parkland-students-emotional-performance-brings-audience-to-its-feet/
Do people still watch “awards” shows?
I saw it on the news, the Betters were in tears.
Other than the “olds”, who watches news on TV? I suspect that once that generation dies off the local and national newscasts will be consigned to the dustbin of history.
Number 1, I am old, 57
Number 2, I watch local news for local stories and weather, I watch National News for entertainment.
Another $1,000 blowoff for Sh!tcoin, which is now near its lowest point since its massive bubble high.
https://www.coinbase.com/charts
Casey Serin had a funny post on that over the weekend. He’s glad he moved his “holdings” into APRCoin which is paying out “SWEET passive income #masternode” (I couldn’t believe he actually said that) while he rides out the crashes.
North Korea wants you to buy the dip, the lower prices are reducing the profit on hacking.
$$$$$$$ need money 2017 850 xmr outlander.
https://www.facebook.com/justin.griffin.710/posts/250187285751882
You want to hire grads from here????
https://www.thefire.org/the-10-worst-colleges-for-free-speech-2018/
I’m surprised to see UC Berkeley on that list.
IM surprised they are not #1 for anti free speech….
After student organisers of the Berkeley “Free Speech Week” cancelled their events, far-right media personality Milo Yiannopoulos vowed to hold a rally of his own.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/milo-yiannopoulos-security-cost-berkeley-800000-170925080606054.html
Danville, CA Rental Rates Crater 7% YOY As California Housing Bust Accelerates
https://www.zillow.com/danville-ca/home-values/
*Select price from dropdown menu on rental chart