August 3, 2018

The Market Has Come To A Grinding Halt

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Housing and rates are worrying some economists that a recession is looming. How could this happen again? Lindsey Piegza, chief economist for Stifel, believes that a decade of rock-bottom interest rates helped people forget about the dangers of borrowing too much. ‘I don’t know if we learned our lesson from the Great Recession,’ she said. ‘We are going back to a lot of the easy lending that we used to see.’”

“Seattle has been arguably one of the hottest housing markets in America, with home prices rising annually by double digits fueled by scorching demand. There is, however, one outside force that is starting to throw cold water on all that heat: new weakness from once-intense Chinese buyers. Stephen Saunders is a managing broker with Coldwell Banker Seattle and works with Chinese investors in the Seattle market. ‘It’s drying up,’ he said. ‘I just don’t see the same kind of volume. The downtown Seattle condo market has come to a grinding halt, and that’s where Chinese buyers were.’”

“Seattle housing is already cooling. The number of homes for sale in King County (where Seattle resides), shot up 47 percent in May compared with a year ago, according to the Northwest Multiple Listing Service. Pending home sales, which represent signed contracts, dropped nearly 9 percent.”

“Through the first half of 2018, the number of homes sold in metro Baton Rouge is 7.2 percent lower to 5,297 from 5,709 for the first six month of 2017. Wynona Squires, of Re/Max First in Baton Rouge, blamed the sales drop on falling demand for high-end homes and the economy. ‘I can’t put a handle on it,’ she said. Squires said last month there were 17 open houses for properties in Prairieville priced between $350,000 and $1 million. ‘You would have had eight or nine open houses like that a couple of years ago,’ she said. ‘And the attendance was slow.’”

“He originally put his five-bedroom luxury apartment up for sale in 2005 for an eye-watering $11 million before relisting the property again seven years later for the same price. And Def Jam co-founder Russell Simmons has now knocked off a cool $1million from the price tag, marketing it at $9,925,000 , after trying to sell the plush New York pad for a total of 13 years. The music mogul has had a run of bad luck trying to sell the apartment, which is situated in the Financial District, and boasts stylish reception rooms and three sprawling terraces.”

“He also decided to sell his ‘peaceful retreat’ in Los Angeles for $8.25 million - which he purchased for a much lower $5.877 million in 2013.”

“The downturn in the Prince Albert housing market will come as no surprise to anyone, but the latest sales figures appear additionally hard-hitting. According to the SRAR monthly report only 25 sales happened in Prince Albert in July, which is almost 50 per cent worse than July 2017 when 49 properties changed hands. The particularly low figures are below the five-year average and are the worst for a July in the last nine years according to data supplied by SRAR.”

“‘[July sales] saw an unusual decline,’CEO Jason Yochim said. ‘Although the numbers represent a significant decline compared to last year, this does not necessarily indicate an alarming trend.’ Yochim said various factors could have contributed to the decline which ‘may be coincidence.’ However, the latest monthly figures paint a bleak picture for sellers with the total value of all homes sold in the city and region down by 20 per cent, according to SRAR. Yochim said the real indicator of success in selling was ‘correct pricing based on what else is competition in the market and the current market conditions relative to supply and demand.’”

“Property investors in China should hold off on buying and selling homes as the country’s real estate boom hits rockier territory, a top wealth management bank said. High amounts of mortgage debt, overdevelopment and government involvement have put the country, including its top metropolises, in housing bubble territory, according to a report from UBS’s chief investment office. Government intervention in the Chinese economy will likely prevent a rapid price crash, but investors holding real estate there should brace for a prolonged period of cooling.”

“Construction and home buying have boomed since 1998, when the government introduced private property ownership. ‘Today, both activity and price levels remain at unprecedented heights, despite visible signs of slowing,’ according to the report. Oversupply is likely to persist, especially considering that the primary buyer population—people ages 25 to 44—is shrinking, according to UBS. There are an estimated 50 ghost cities that exist in China, mainly in the northern parts due to overconstruction.”

“Interstate refugees are baling on Sydney, along with a rush of new apartments for rent and falling prices that have prompted some would-be sellers to look for tenants instead, have all combined to produce a rare breed of Sydney market, one where renters can call the shots. Some 2.8 per cent of all rental properties in Australia’s largest city are vacant, and the way things are going that could go as high as 4 per cent, a level not seen since the post-Olympics property lull of 2004, SQM Research’s Louis Christopher says.”

“Avalon and Terry Hills on the northern beaches have the highest vacancy at a staggering 8.2 to 8.3 per cent, followed by Kellyville, Marsden Park, Rouse Hill and Box Hill at 6.9 to 7.1 per cent in the north-west. These areas are undergoing bumper housing development because of the arrival of the Sydney Metro. These are followed by the blue-chip suburbs of Lindfield at 6.9 per cent, Double Bay at 5.5 per cent, Edgecliff at 5.1 per cent, and Bondi at 4.9 per cent. Data from renting portal Rent.com.au shows that across these suburbs, vacant homes are staying empty for longer.”

“Competing for disillusioned tenants such as Burnett are not only new stock by new investor/landlords but desperate apartment developers who are turning their residual stock into rentals. In this type of market, landlords should be pragmatic, says SQM Research’s Louis Christopher. ‘Landlords should consider all offers before brushing them off.’”

“Rent.com.au chief executive Greg Bader agrees there is plenty of scope for tenants to negotiate lower rents. ‘It’s a big change in pace for Sydney, it’s gone from being the hottest capital city market in Australia for several years to losing its top gong to Hobart, of all places.’”

“Real estate developers sought immediate government intervention to tide over the stress in the sector that has resulted in poor demand and high inventory. Builders sought reduction of the goods and services tax (GST) on construction services from 12% and better access to finance, an executive from the Confederation of Real Estate Developers’ Associations of India said on condition of anonymity. According to industry estimates, clearing all the built yet unsold houses in cities such as Bengaluru or Mumbai would take between 40-60 months at least, assuming no new houses come on to the market.”

“FIFE construction business Muir Group lost some of the ground it had gained the previous year in the 12 months to the end of January, with a slowdown in development opportunities impacting on the firm’s top and bottom lines. Finance director John Watt said the reduction in turnover ‘was principally down to lower construction and development opportunities with a steady level of housebuilding activities.’”

“While turnover from the group’s private housing arm remained broadly unchanged at £29.5m, its contracting arm experienced a 17% dip, from £36.2m to £30m. Turnover from the group’s much smaller property development arm also fell significantly, more than halving from £4.3m to £1.9m. The development arm went from making a pre-tax profit of £884,000 to a making a loss of £139,000. Looking ahead, Mr Watt said that the business will continue to be exposed to a planning system that he called ‘unpredictable and torpid.’”

“Empty unsold luxury flats haunt London’s skyline. Sightseers can see them in Battersea, Stratford and further afield, but that doesn’t mean that crafty developers have any plans to stop building them. No, they’re taking the bold opposite option and building more and more, in a desperate attempt to recoup money — just as London’s property market stagnates.”

“This got us thinking. London already has — and will soon have even more — unsold luxury flats. What are we going to do with them? Just wait it out until we’re all stonking loaded and can afford to buy them? Surely there are some better options in the meantime. Here’s our two cents.”

“1. Paintballing Embrace your inner 12 year old and go paintballing inside these unsold complexes. Think of all the tactical opportunities this opens up. Duck for cover behind a granite kitchen island. Use the apartment’s in-built speaker system as a diversion. Replenish yourself with the on-tap sparkling water. Making a one man last stand on the balcony, as you admire the picturesque views of other empty luxury blocks.”

“Your team gets an automatic win if they manage to hit an actual resident — this is tougher than it sounds, what with people living in these flats being a rarely spotted phenomenon.”

“2. Post offices. Post offices, in the middle of towers in ghost towns. Or maybe just stamp dispensaries. We haven’t quite figured that part out yet. 3. Nightclubs. London’s councils are averse to independently run clubs and night-time venues. One of the prime reasons for this is that they feel it causes disruption for local residents. Do you know what we say to that? Can’t upset local residents if the residents don’t exist. It should be a relatively quick conversion too. Turn the kitchen into a bar, and then gut everything else to make way for a dancefloor. Tipsy revellers hundreds of feet in the air… what could go wrong?”

“4. Zip lines. Here at Londonist we’re a bit obsessed with transport. And with all these new hip and happening towers in the sky, people are going to need some form of quick transport to get between them.”

“5. Lower the prices. We know, we know. The most ridiculous of all the ideas in the list. However, what if these flats were sold at affordable prices. Psssht… yes, we know. We’re only dreaming. Let’s go back to the travelling between the post office and club on a zip wire firing a paintball gun in one hand.”




RSS feed

109 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2018-08-03 08:43:58

‘The downturn in the Prince Albert housing market will come as no surprise to anyone, but the latest sales figures appear additionally hard-hitting. According to the SRAR monthly report only 25 sales happened in Prince Albert in July, which is almost 50 per cent worse than July 2017 when 49 properties changed hands. The particularly low figures are below the five-year average and are the worst for a July in the last nine years’

And 2017 was a terrible year. This goes to show things can and will get worse and worser. You don’t get a 20+ year blow out and avoid the bust.

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2018-08-03 09:07:26

“This goes to show things can and will get wor$e and wor$er.”

Jimbo, get$ mader$ & mader$:

Cramer’$ ‘They know nothing!’ rant from 2007: The complete tran$cript

In 2007, “Mad Money” host Jim Cramer sounded off on the Federal Re$erve for ignoring $igns of the impending financial cri$is.

Cramer went on a full-blown rant in an interview with former “$treet $igns” host Erin Burnett.
Elizabeth Gurdus | CNBC

Burnett: But a lot of people say these same people say, it’s not Ben Bernanke that matters. The bond market now is separate from the rate.

Cramer: Its entirely the rate. Look, we will spend billions in Iraq to build homes. We are going to have thousands of people, we have thousands of people losing their homes right now. Fourteen million people took a mortgage in the last 3 years. Seven million of them took teaser rates or took piggyback rates. They will lose their homes. This is crazy.

Burnett: Yes –

Cramer: And I’m sorry to be upset about it but you have to understand what they’re saying to me off the record before I come in here, every night and every day, I hear from these blow hard managers. Call someone for heaven’s sake! Go call someone! I worked fixed income at Goldman Sachs. This is not the time to be complacent.

 
Comment by rms
2018-08-03 11:05:42

Jim Cramer wants his job secured with federal reserve guarantees because he believes risk is for little people.

 
Comment by Anonymous
2018-08-03 12:38:26

Sometimes I wish I could understand your posts.

Comment by hunkydory
2018-08-03 14:57:12

Either too much drugs or not enough

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Montana
2018-08-03 19:02:42

So this was about rate hikes, right? Geez I’m happy to see them go up. Let er rip.

 
 
Comment by b
2018-08-03 11:18:40

It is the @#(*&N prairies in Canada. Lumber, mining and ???

What did people expect

Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-08-03 20:22:30

That rant brought brought back memories. What a surreal time that was.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-08-03 08:45:55

‘a rush of new apartments for rent and falling prices that have prompted some would-be sellers to look for tenants instead…Competing for disillusioned tenants such as Burnett are not only new stock by new investor/landlords but desperate apartment developers who are turning their residual stock into rentals’

Accidental landlords? Where have we seen that before?

Comment by Boo Randy
2018-08-03 11:01:12

I’m getting this odd sense of deja vous, like we’ve been here before. But then I recall Old Yellen cooing that there will be no new financial crisis in “our lifetime.”

She’s still here, right?

Comment by snake charmer
2018-08-03 14:18:39

“Would I say there will never, ever be another financial crisis?” Yellen said at a question-and-answer event in London.

“You know probably that would be going too far but I do think we’re much safer and I hope that it will not be in our lifetimes and I don’t believe it will be,” she said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-yellen/feds-yellen-expects-no-new-financial-crisis-in-our-lifetimes-idUSKBN19I2I5

That reminds me of the LTCM guys, who categorically stated that not only could their fund not fail in the lifetime of the universe, but that it could not fail in the lifetime of several universes. And then it failed in four years.

Comment by tresho
2018-08-03 23:06:44

then it failed in four years Maybe universes have a much shorter life span than they used to have.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Mortgage Watch
2018-08-03 08:54:37

Addison, TX Housing Prices Crater 7% YOY As Dallas/Forth Worth Housing Glut Expands

https://www.movoto.com/allen-tx/market-trends/

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-08-03 09:09:59

‘Government intervention in the Chinese economy will likely prevent a rapid price crash…There are an estimated 50 ghost cities that exist in China, mainly in the northern parts due to overconstruction’

I want to point out, again, the contradictions we see about China. Would anyone get away with saying “the government in New York will prevent a rapid crash”? Of course not. Governments can’t snap their fingers and change large markets. But somehow we suspend logic when it comes to the Chinese. Where does this stupid fawning about what is basically a communist dictatorship come from? The globalist corporate media, who were telling us a few years ago the Chicoms were going to take over the world and we better teach our kids Mandarin so they can serve their new masters.

Horse-hockey! The empty cities are an every day massive loss just based on opportunity costs. Finances, the environment, human rights, waste? These fools have racked up the worst position in almost every measure of human achievement!

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2018-08-03 09:16:39

“These fool$ have racked up the wor$t po$ition in almost every mea$ure of human achievement!”

Bugs, “eh, their export$ look good Doc”

Comment by Ben Jones
2018-08-03 09:24:34

That reminds me: inequality. Give me tariff free access to global markets, near slave labor in the millions, no worker safety, no environmental laws, and I can ship a bunch of junky appliances that will break in a year too. Look at how it’s commonly understood: Chinese stuff is junk! We all know it but continue buying it because that’s all there is to buy in many categories.

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2018-08-03 10:11:13

$nap on or Harbor Freight Tool$ … deci$ions, deci$ions

Amish was$hing device$ also don’t have built-in cameras that spy on you!

(On the + side, you burn additional calories, especially if it’s a large family)

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by snake charmer
2018-08-03 14:19:55

+1

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by foobarbaz
2018-08-03 09:38:17

>Governments can’t snap their fingers and change large markets.
Yes they can, and they are doing it in unison right now, every single day. Low interest rates have created major inflation in both the housing and stock market over the last 10 years. In the US the federal reserve only needs to go full on NIRP, and every shit shack in America would go up by a million dollars over night. The powers that be are desperate to keep the system propped up, and they will do anything to preserve their power and wealth. It’s not a conspiracy, but merely what groups of people in power have done since the dawn of man.

Comment by Ben Jones
2018-08-03 09:42:36

No, you’re wrong. Greenspan proved what a bunch of idiots they are.

Comment by foobarbaz
2018-08-03 10:57:43

@Ben

Gawd I hope you are right and I am wrong Ben. The system needs a purge like never before.

Greenspan proved what they all have proven, which is nothing more than a banking cartel in charge of the money supply and interest rates. But it’s not just the federal reserve, it is also the treasury, congress and 100 or so major corporations. They all work in unison along with other central banks and governments around the world to keep control and wealth in the hands of the few. Those peasants who get on board are rewarded, those who do not get punished. For example savers and those who refuse to gamble in the stock market or housing.

Everyone is thinking the current situation cannot go on for much longer. I disagree, it can and probably will go on for at least the next 3 years. The shit shacks selling for 400k in rural towns are not going to crash IMO. Interest rates are still accommodating by all measures. We still have another 100 or so basis points before they are considered neutral, at least by today’s standards. Which means we still have at least another year of rising home prices in the high range that we have been seeing, and across the board. Then another year of the GSE’s and lenders fudging numbers and eeking out every last drop of blood. Then congress will step in and stimulate or bailout some part of the economy that is weakening. It is the same old bullshit. Savers and responsible people get crushed while the gamblers get rewarded.

The amount of Californians migrating out with their cash hoards is no accident. It has been encouraged and even designed for these people to fan out, and so called “spread the wealth”. Can’t afford that 400k dollar shack in your small town? Too bad, someone else with a few million in the bank from Seattle or San Fransisco would love to retire there, where the cost of living is low in comparison. There are plenty of rich foreigners and well paid techies willing to fill the void in those expensive coastal cities too.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Carl Morris
2018-08-03 11:39:15

The shit shacks selling for 400k in rural towns are not going to crash IMO.

I think you underestimate how much of it is supported by speculation. But maybe we agree in the sense that I think the Fed will jump in (again) to encourage speculation (again) before a real crash gets out of control. Rinsing and repeating until that no longer works.

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-08-03 16:57:56

The Fed jumped in last time and prices fell 40% anyways.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2018-08-03 17:22:38

Yeah, halfway to where they wanted to go :-).

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-08-04 04:15:57

All that effort to prevent falling prices and they fell 40%+ anyways….

Clowns.

 
 
Comment by Boo Randy
2018-08-03 10:59:51

So did Zimbabwe Ben & Yellen the Felon.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by foobarbaz
2018-08-03 11:12:03

Something else, the federal reserve and government is gearing up to encourage major inflation across the board, for an example see below article. That has been the plan all along and now they are going to send it to the moon. They need housing to double in price from the last peak. It is inflate or die. Think of how many more houses in neighboring states those cash rich Californians will be able to buy after they sell their coastal home. This alone is good for at least another 25% increase in housing prices across the board in the US.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/02/some-home-sellers-would-see-huge-savings-under-treasury-tax-cut-plan.html

-Some home sellers would see huge savings under Treasury tax cut plan-

Breathing new life into an idea that has been around for several decades, the Treasury Department is studying whether it can bypass congressional approval to index long-term capital gains to inflation.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-08-03 11:33:33

CNBC= garbage in, garbage out

 
Comment by foobarbaz
2018-08-03 14:19:58

Why? Do you have any proof that what they are reporting in this instance is inaccurate?

 
Comment by goudey
2018-08-03 14:49:19

Mafia Blocks = garbage in, garbage out.

75% crash is coming. Right…

All dirt costs the same. Right…

All houses sell for $50 sf. Right…

All houses depreciate 3% a year forever. Right…

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-08-03 14:56:57

Realtors are liars

 
 
 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-08-03 09:52:44

Rates are rising and prices are falling. Amen.

Comment by Ben Jones
2018-08-03 09:58:58

How many times did we have to suffer through the “they’ll never let interest rates rise!” crap. Bond rates have doubled from summer of 2016. Stop worshiping the government/central banks. They can’t make trains run on time. Just look at any DMV or the TSA at airports. It’s a colossal cluster-fark.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Boo Randy
2018-08-03 11:08:02

Hey, that TSA pat-down was some of the zestiest action I’ve had lately….

 
 
Comment by foobarbaz
2018-08-03 11:00:42

>Rates are rising and prices are falling. Amen.
Prices are falling? Not around here or anywhere else in the US, besides a couple of tiny outliers like NY apartments.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-08-03 11:37:07

Around there and everywhere else too.

Westminster CO Housing Prices Crater 6% YOY

https://www.movoto.com/westminster-co/market-trends/

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-08-03 11:38:12

‘Prices are falling? Not around here or anywhere else in the US’

I see. Never mind.

 
Comment by foobarbaz
2018-08-03 14:01:25

@Ben

You forgot to quote the rest of what I said “…besides a couple of tiny outliers like NY apartments”

There are a couple of tiny outliers you have been working with but that is about it. I have been renting for the last two years so I know how hard I have been taking it in the shorts, and I am certain that isn’t going to subside anytime in the next couple of years.

 
Comment by BlueSkye
2018-08-03 18:09:20

“I have been renting for the last two years so I know…”

Is two years alot?

 
Comment by foobarbaz
2018-08-03 19:13:17

@BlueSkye

Yes, in this environment where just two years ago a 250k house is now going for 350k.

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-08-03 19:37:49

And not a buyer in sight.

California Housing Demand Plummets To 21 Year Low

http://journal.firsttuesday.us/home-sales-volume-and-price-peaks/692/

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-08-03 20:53:19

‘a 250k house is now going for 350k’

Ennio Morricone - the ecstasy of gold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKFpaCMRWgU

 
 
 
Comment by Albuquerquedan
2018-08-03 10:33:25

I believe similar. With fiat money the PTB control things right up to the point that hyperinflation starts. Of course if that happens you want to be a loan owner as long as it is fixed. Interest rates are rising because Trump is not a globalist. They are willing to risk a recession with him in power since they will blame it on his anti globalization agenda. Of course, if it happens it will be due to the popping of bubbles created under their stooge Obama. Right now I only see air gradually be let out of the bubbles which is positive. However Trump is right to caution the Fed about too much too fast

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-08-03 09:14:50

‘one outside force that is starting to throw cold water on all that heat: new weakness from once-intense Chinese buyers. ‘It’s drying up…The downtown Seattle condo market has come to a grinding halt, and that’s where Chinese buyers were.’

There was a time on this blog long ago when a poster reached a conclusion that has been forgotten. He was talking about Miami and he said if a market is relying on people who don’t live there it’s doomed. Sure you can have small vacation type markets here and there but not the core. Now watch the Chinese start dumping these overpriced airboxes.

Comment by b
2018-08-03 11:28:05

I live in downtown Seattle in a nice condo building.

2 things:
- Chinese kids (20’s etc) are incredibly trendy - if it seems that Seattle is slowing down - they will not buy new - so that will be a severe lack of foreign demand
- the kids live in the units that their parents bought - so if they can keep up the payments, they will continue to stay. They refuse to understand sunk costs. Aside. A lot of the moms seem to be here also - perhaps so that the father back in China can get with the for-hire girlfriend

Comment by Carl Morris
2018-08-03 11:40:50

A lot of the moms seem to be here also - perhaps so that the father back in China can get with the for-hire girlfriend

Actually the moms here ARE the “second wives”.

 
Comment by MGSpiffy
2018-08-03 12:01:14

We have a share of them here. The young adults are very image conscious. 9 times out of 10, if you see an exotic sports car putting around the island, it’s a young Asian male driving because they take them everywhere - to the QFC, the dry cleaners, etc. to make sure their image is correct.

 
Comment by cactus
2018-08-03 16:03:54

Yes same in parts of LA also , trendy with fast cars.

Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-08-03 20:44:28

moms seem to be here also - perhaps so that the father back in China can get with the for-hire girlfriend

I think Vancouverites refer to these as satellite families

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Boo Randy
2018-08-03 09:31:13

FB tales of woe and regret are starting to pop up in the MSM.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-i-cant-wait-to-escape-my-big-fancy-house-2018-08-03

Comment by Anonymous
2018-08-03 12:55:04

Why didn’t he just make an offer to buy the beloved beachfront house they were renting?

As for all those points he made…don’t people think about those things before buying a house (especially a big house)?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2018-08-03 15:29:16

Foaming the runway for future bailouts?

Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-08-03 20:52:12

I love where we live because it is decidedly lower-middle class or even the top range of the lower class and so there is no pressure to keep up with the Joneses at all. Yet everyone around us is nice, hard working, and non-pretentious.

Comment by Get Stucco
2018-08-04 05:24:02

Mormon paradise? ( Probably not quite so attractive to nonmembers / muggles )

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-08-04 09:24:41

I would guestimate that about 20% of our neighbors are Mormons. Most of the Mormon neighborhoods in city are in SFH and are McMansions trying to keep up with the Joneses Romneyes and other Mormon mommy bloggers they follow. Our little apartment complex is quite different. It’s small, modest, and older.

 
Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-08-04 15:44:06

I was explaining to a friend today about the importance of family ties in LDS circles… especially if your last name or that of your blood relatives is Romney, Flake, Snow, Hatch, Pratt, etc.

 
Comment by rms
2018-08-04 15:46:05

“…Mormon mommy bloggers…”

The Mormon ladies I’ve met were beautiful and wholesome, and they were smart enough to ignore me too.

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-08-04 16:48:03

especially if your last name or that of your blood relatives is Romney, Flake, Snow, Hatch, Pratt, etc.

Very true. In terms of “Mormon royalty”, other names also come to mind: Marriott, Sorensen, Huntsman, Covey, and Woodburry.

Then of course the ponzi scheme network marketing companies have a few big names, but I’m not going to mention those because I loathe that industry.

My cousin married into one of the families you listed above. They are stupid wealthy, but still great people.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2018-08-04 17:25:20

Yeah, my on again off again girlfriend as a kid ended up marrying a Benson from Utah. He had a 200k/yr expat job in Hong Kong by the mid 90s (10 year HS reunion, I had just finished up my BSEE after an enlistment and was looking for my first engineering job) and I always wondered how did he manage to get that gig? Now I understand the world a little better.

 
Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-08-05 00:48:50

“They are stupid wealthy, but still great people.”

I consider my personal ties to ‘Mormon rotalty’ to be one of the greatest privileges of my life. Even though I am not a member, I admire the Church’s egalitarian principles, whereby wealthy and successful church members associate on congenial terms with the lowly and the meek. The millionaires in my Mormon circle of contacts treat me on the same terms as the indigent.

 
Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-08-05 00:50:19

“Benson”

As in Ezra Taft Benson?

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2018-08-05 13:48:28

I assume so.

 
 
Comment by Albuquerquedan
2018-08-04 06:28:45

I live in an area which is similar perhaps middle of the middle class. I may have the highest income in the area. I like it too for the exact reasons you mentioned

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by crispy&cole
2018-08-03 09:34:38

Think Seattle and NY are ground zero for the bust this time around….lots of cheap condo’s for sale in 2019

Comment by taxpayers
2018-08-03 09:46:32

chighetto due to extreme tax increases
miami -already old news

the progression is luxury on down

 
Comment by rms
2018-08-03 11:10:47

Any place with snowy or wet overcast winters and irrationally high home prices are ground zero for the bust.

Comment by That guy
2018-08-03 19:17:30

True that. I am still under water on my 2007 fha purchase.

 
 
Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2018-08-03 15:36:39

“… NY are ground zero for the bu$t this time around”

The devil i$ in the detail$ …

“Financial term$ of the tran$action were not di$closed.”

Well, … but some clue$ were provided:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Canada’$ Brookfield Asset Management said on Friday it acquired a 99-year lea$e on a flag$hip New York office tower controlled by the family of Jared Ku$hner, the son-in-law of U.S. President Donald Trump, capping a long $aga to refinance the building.

Brookfield said it gained a leasehold on the office portion of 666 Fifth Avenue, a marquee property whose $1.8 billion sale to Kushner Companies in 2006 was the highest price paid for a New York office building at the time.

Vornado also said it would continue to own its portion of the building’s prized retail frontage on Fifth Avenue, which it bought in 2012 for $707.8 million from the Carlyle Group.

Vornado acquired its office stake in 2011 when it helped recapitalize the tower with $70 million after the debt entered receivership, a sign of Kushner difficulties financing the building.

 
 
Comment by Mortgage Watch
2018-08-03 09:35:04

Reddington Beach FL Housing Prices Crater 7% YOY As Housing Recovery Begins

https://www.movoto.com/redington-beach-fl/market-trends/

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-08-03 10:05:50

‘Seattle has been arguably one of the hottest housing markets in America, with home prices rising annually by double digits fueled by scorching demand’

Yeah Diane and in just a few months - crater. Funny how the exact same thing happened in Vancouver, Toronto and Sydney. But you keep trying to get ahead of the bubble.

Comment by crispy&cole
2018-08-03 10:25:26

I visit family there often…they still have tons of cranes all over Seattle, Bellevue, Kirkland, etc…The bust there will be like what happened to LV in 2007-2011…

Comment by b
2018-08-03 11:31:19

let me caution you from the standpoint of a screwed property tax owner.

Most of the cranes were for rental appts. Those that got 80% rented were mostly sold to pension funds/REITs. if this goes bad, the govt unions will demand that states/counties/cities kick in more contributions —– arrg

Comment by taxpayers
2018-08-03 12:08:53

age 55 here w 75% of pay
may finally be raising the age in fxco,va

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by aNYCdj
2018-08-03 12:58:35

sorry to bust your bubble but no one should be allowed to retire at 55 with a full pension UNLESS you are fully retried with no other significant job income

So i came up with this idea:

Unions did a good job up to 30 years ago then things changed You demanded too much and didn’t want to pay for it..You will never balance the budget without serious Pension reform, it will grow year after year after year and so will the debt.

TOO many quit smoking got healthy and should have died a long time ago, time to talk about reality, NO more early retirements. you didn’t put enough into your retirement accounts…….It was all based on a 40% smoking rate not 13% like today

 
Comment by rms
2018-08-03 15:33:25

“sorry to bust your bubble but no one should be allowed to retire at 55 with a full pension UNLESS you are fully retried with no other significant job income”

So you get your masters in engineering by age twenty-five and work a thirty year career with serious responsibilities and stress finally retiring at fifty-five. What’s wrong with a full pension here, DJ?

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2018-08-03 18:12:39

As long as its a fully funded pension its ok….. but how many are?

States are so underfunded its pathetic, so certain rules should have been changed 30 years ago.

I thinking how many people lived to be 80-85 90+ collecting a pension 30 years ago vs today? I really think the anti smoking campaigns did so much good but the unintended consequences was to bankrupt the pension plans.

 
Comment by Anonymous
2018-08-03 18:30:48

“…It was all based on a 40% smoking rate not 13% like today…”

Interesting angle, maybe IL and all the other places under crushing pension obligations should give it a whirl.

 
Comment by OneAgainstMany
2018-08-03 21:04:07

I really think the anti smoking campaigns did so much good but the unintended consequences was to bankrupt the pension plans.

Well, US life expectancy rates have unexpectedly reversed course and have been going down for the past 2 years. The culprit? Deaths of despair among middle-aged white men (Trump voting cohort). Chalk it up to suicides, drugs (opioids), and alcohol. It’s too early to say if this is just an aberration or the start of a new trend, but if it is a new trend the morbid reality is that it will lower pension obligations.

 
 
Comment by hunkydory
2018-08-03 15:02:01

Better to be mobile and rent for a while to suss out those cities/states/countries that went all in on the bubble and will tap tax payers like a parasite. There will be some nice deals in the next 3 years or so all over the world.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Anonymous
2018-08-03 18:34:49

What you described is pretty much my plan!

 
 
 
 
Comment by MGSpiffy
2018-08-03 12:07:21

I’m curious to see how this plays out, given my view from the inside having bought a house here in the Seattle area the start of the year.

Now granted, I bought for the heretical reason of living in it as my primary residence for the next few decades, and got a hell of a deal on it - but I still could wind up with some regret for not picking a better time.

If so, I’ll own up to here and endure the ribbing. I’m in it for the long haul.

In the meantime, I’ll keep dropping in when I see houses in the neighborhood for sale, and report on local observasions.

Also.. what the feeling for a Seattle+Eastside area HBB blogger meet-up? I’m putting a vote in for Chutney’s Indian Restaurant in Bellevue…

Comment by b
2018-08-03 13:47:10

Up for a meet. Would prefer a place with beer - but will settle for anything

Comment by drumminj
2018-08-03 19:20:30

Up for a meet. Would prefer a place with beer - but will settle for anything

I’m up as well, especially if it’s east-side. Indian’s a no-go for me…bar with bar food/beer/wine would be good though.

Speaking of Seattle/Bellevue, there’s still a number of mixed-use/condo buildings going up. Always some street that’s closed/got flaggers due to the cranes overhead. Find it hard to believe the demand exists, given all the supply that’s come online in the past year already.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by MGSpiffy
2018-08-03 19:35:50

There’s more than Indian out there. I threw that out because it’s a fav of mine and I haven’t been in a while . Surely you guys have some favorite go-tos to suggest. I’m down for almost anything except sushi.

 
 
 
Comment by BlueSkye
2018-08-03 18:26:13

“If so, I’ll own up to here…”

Nonsense! We all know you bought at bubble peak prices. You don’t need to own up at some future point like as if it hasn’t already happened.

Comment by MGSpiffy
2018-08-03 19:43:06

lol. I don’t mind a good nature ribbing, but we need to see the other side to measure the peak.

I bought relatively cheap in a preferred area.. but did I get a good enough deal to not see much loss? or will it look like a blood bath? That verdict isn’t in yet.

In any event, you know I’ve also discussed the circumstances I was under at the time (both good and bad) - I’ve never asserted that it was a perfect decision.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by BlueSkye
2018-08-04 05:08:10

Besides, it’s only money

 
 
 
 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2018-08-03 15:01:20

Seattle, WA Housing Prices Crater 8% YOY

https://www.zillow.com/fairmount-park-seattle-wa/home-values/

*Select price from dropdown menu on first chart

 
 
Comment by Apartment 401
2018-08-03 11:11:08

Realtors are liars.

 
Comment by Mortgage Watch
2018-08-03 11:41:04

Santa Monica CA Housing Prices Crater 10% YOY As Housing Recovery Accelerates

https://www.movoto.com/santa-monica-ca/market-trends/

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2018-08-03 12:04:51

‘I don’t know if we learned our lesson from the Great Recession,’ she said. ‘We are going back to a lot of the easy lending that we used to see.’

May 25, 2018

“In his corner of American finance, where hard selling meets hard luck, Angelo Christian is a star. Each time Christian sells a home loan, the company he works for, American Financial Network Inc., takes as much as 5 percent. Many of Christian’s customers have no savings, poor credit, or low income—sometimes all three. Some are like Joseph Taylor, a corrections officer who saw Christian’s roadside billboard touting zero-down mortgages. Taylor had recently filed for bankruptcy because of his $25,000 in credit card debt. But he just bought his first home for $120,000 with a zero-down loan from Christian’s company. Monthly debt payments now eat up half his take-home pay. ‘If he can help me, he can help anyone,’ Taylor says. ‘My credit history was just horrible.’”

“Christian can do this kind of deal because he is, in effect, making the loan on behalf of the federal government through its most important affordable housing program. It’s a sweet deal: He gets his nearly risk-free commission. Taylor puts no money down. If things go south, the government ultimately bears the risk. Many borrowers ‘are living paycheck to paycheck and, if they lose their jobs, they go into default immediately,’ says John Burns, a housing consultant.”

http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/?p=10443

Comment by Patrick
2018-08-03 12:18:50

On August 2, the NAR paid for an article in Forbes explaining how housing is not in a Bubble.

“Finally, since the word “bubble” is on the minds of many consumers, it is worth laying out why today’s conditions are fundamentally different compared to a decade ago. Back then, lending standards were non-existent, with subprime loans everywhere. By contrast, the lending standards today are still stringent, as evidenced by the higher than normal credit scores of those who are able to obtain a mortgage. That is why mortgage default and foreclosure rates are at historic lows. On the supply side, there was overbuilding with 2.1 million housing starts during the bubble years. Today, we are just scratching 1.3 million.”

Love the narrative that lending standards are stringent. With 1/5 homes bought today going to people with a debt-to-income ratio of 50%, those are sub-prime no matter what your credit score says. Also, the NAR doesn’t explain how sub-prime used to be a credit score of 660 or below. They definition is now 620 and below.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lawrenceyun/2018/08/02/no-housing-recession-over-horizon/#57551ad8f79c

Comment by qt
2018-08-03 13:13:25

This time is different!

 
Comment by Boo Randy
2018-08-03 16:57:41

Back then, lending standards were non-existent, with subprime loans everywhere.

Back then, we didn’t have trillions in QE funny funny propping up our Ponzi markets and asset bubbles. Now the punchbowl is being taken away. Let the Great Cratering begin!

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2018-08-03 15:26:44

How about a policy to encourage all renters to rent a home for well in excess of 30% of income, with someone else picking up any excess of 30%? Not only would this create a problem of driving up rents, but it would also cause any unrented units to quickly get snapped up in order to capture the free money. The rental inventory would go from low to 0 in a heartbeat, and future wannabe renters would be screwed.

Opinion: Kamala Harris has a terrible idea to lower the high cost of renting
Published: Aug 3, 2018 11:12 a.m. ET
Rent control or tax credits won’t fix the affordability problem; only more houses will
JOSH EDELSON/AFP/Getty Images
A homeless man sleeps in front of a luxury car dealership in San Francisco. His senator wants to give him a tax credit. But what he needs is a home.
By Rex Nutting
Columnist

California Democratic Sen. Kamala Harris recently proposed a foolish idea to address a real problem: America’s housing affordability crisis.

Noting that about half of the 43 million renters are spending more than 30% of their incomes on rent (and many millions spend more than 50%), Harris proposed a federal refundable tax credit to reimburse them for the “excess” rent they are paying.

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2018-08-03 16:17:06

That’s de$ssssspiiicable!!!

Here’$ a better gubermint$ $olution, $igned bye a Republican!

When was the Home$tead Act?

Passed on May 20, 1862, the Homestead Act accelerated the settlement of the western territory by granting adult heads of families 160 acre$ of surveyed public land for a minimal filing fee and 5 years of continuous residence on that land.

Our Documents - Homestead Act (1862)
Our Documents (.gov)

 
Comment by rms
2018-08-03 16:17:57

“If you want to lower the price of housing, you need to build more housing. This is basic microeconomics: If the supply of something is scarce relative to demand, the price will go up. If you want to lower the rents, you need to increase the supply of housing. (Alternatively, you could try to reduce the demand, but we already have too many homeless people.)”

No mention of the easy lending policies that brought us here and are certain to fail. Come on Rex Nutting, what’s wrong with the truth?

Comment by drumminj
2018-08-03 19:24:23

No mention of the easy lending policies that brought us here and are certain to fail.

And the ridiculous level of taxation. Even with sky-high housing values/assessments, Seattle/surrounding cities feel the need to add additional levies for all kinds of projects.

Current proposed levy in King County is for “automated fingerprint identification system services”.

 
 
Comment by jeff
2018-08-03 17:43:32

The DBLL Luvs him some “excess” rent.

Collect you some rent, don’t pay the mortgage for a few years because u wuz Robo-signed, stuff Yo pockets with the tax free cash flow and there you have it, “excess” rent.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2018-08-03 15:27:52

“Housing and rates are worrying some economists that a recession is looming. How could this happen again?”

It’s a natural consequence of putting too many beans in the housing basket.

 
Comment by Mortgage Watch
2018-08-03 17:02:24

Albany OR Housing Prices Crater 21% YOY As Rate Hikes Accelerate Housing Recovery

https://www.movoto.com/albany-or/market-trends/

 
Comment by Mr. Banker
2018-08-03 17:08:44

“Housing and rates are worrying some economists that a recession is looming. How could this happen again?”

Bahahaha … such a question! You just gotta love economists and their sense of humor.

Or naivety? Could it possiblbly be naivety? Naw, it’s gotta be humor; nobody, not even economist’s could be so stupid.

“Lindsey Piegza, chief economist for Stifel, believes that a decade of rock-bottom interest rates helped people forget about the dangers of borrowing too much.”

Ya think?

” ‘I don’t know if we learned our lesson from the Great Recession,’ she said. ‘We are going back to a lot of the easy lending that we used to see.’”

No sh1t.

Bahahahahahaha … this blog kills me.

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

 
Comment by azdude
2018-08-03 18:09:03

dont you guys love it when the stock market rallies on a sh@tty jobs report? WTF? is this total joke or what?

Comment by BlueSkye
2018-08-03 18:29:47

Day trading Debt Donkey.

 
Comment by rms
2018-08-03 20:17:33

The markets rallied because the losers took it again, obediently.

 
Comment by Professor 🐻
2018-08-04 05:28:26

A bad jobs report takes some of the pressure off the Fed to quickly normalize rates, which in turn encourages bovine specuvestors to gamble more at lower borrowing cost.

 
Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2018-08-04 10:37:13

Thee long lever$ boy$&girl$ $till $wirlin’ the concoction$ whil$t repo$in in.the.$and.under the $hade … quit pu$hin’ for an early $eptember, you’re gonna lo$e!

 
 
Comment by Get Stucco
2018-08-04 05:21:01

“Oversupply is likely to persist, especially considering that the primary buyer population—people ages 25 to 44—is shrinking, according to UBS.”

Seems like the US is in a similar plight, especially when you consider how marginally qualified the 25 to 44 set is, thanks to crushing household debt and tax rates.

“There are an estimated 50 ghost cities that exist in China, mainly in the northern parts due to overconstruction.”

To my knowledge, the US does not face anything like China’s empty cities problem.

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post