July 19, 2006

US Housing Market ‘Continues To Unravel’

Housing news from Wall Street and Washington. “U.S. homebuilders started work on fewer homes in June as higher mortgage rates discouraged buyers. Would-be homebuyers are moving to the sidelines, dissuaded by the highest mortgage rates in four years and prices that are still above year-ago levels.”

“Starts of single- family homes fell 6.5 percent in June to a 1.486 million-unit rate. Starts fell in every region except the Midwest. They fell 12 percent in the Northeast to 170,000, 4 percent in the South to 911,000 and 10 percent in the West to 460,000.”

“The number of homes under construction fell 1.2 percent in June to a 1.381 million pace, the lowest since October. Housing completions rose 6.4 percent to an annual rate of 2.017 million. The number of housing units authorized, but not yet started, rose 1.6 percent to 233,000.”

“Home builder Ryland Group Inc. said early Wednesday that second-quarter net income fell 9% from the year-ago period and lowered its 2006 profit outlook for the second time as the U.S. housing market continues to unravel.”

“Gross profit margins on home sales in the quarter averaged 23.2%, down from 24.5% a year earlier. The drop was primarily due to $20 million of inventory write-downs and increased sales discounts.”

“For the quarter, new orders for homes fell 39% to 3,023 units, with the dollar value dropping 40% to $890.8 million. The company’s backlog at quarter end was valued at $2.5 billion, an 18% decrease from a year earlier.”

“Downey Financial Corp. reported that net income for the second quarter of 2006 (was) down 22.7% from the year-ago second quarter. The decline in net income between second quarters primarily reflected: A $40.2 million decline in net gains on sales of loans and mortgage-backed securities..A $6.1 million increase in provision for credit losses.”

“During the current quarter, California residential real estate markets continued to show signs of slower sales and flattening home values. In addition, the amount of negative amortization associated with option ARM loans continued to increase and may result in certain borrowers reaching their limit of negative amortization permitted under the terms of their loan, thereby resulting in an increase in their minimum monthly loan payment and the potential for higher delinquencies.”

“As of July 31, 2005, Downey operated 173 branches, of which 169 were in California and 4 were in Arizona.”

From the Fed chairman. “As I have noted, the anticipated moderation in economic growth now seems to be under way, although the recent erratic growth pattern complicates this assessment. That moderation appears most evident in the household sector.”

“Outlays for residential construction, which have been at very high levels in recent years, rose further in the first quarter. More recently, however, the market for residential real estate has been cooling, as can be seen in the slowing of new and existing home sales and housing starts.”

“Some of the recent softening in housing starts may have resulted from the unusually favorable weather during the first quarter of the year, which pulled forward construction activity, but the slowing of the housing market appears to be more broad-based than can be explained by that factor alone.”

“Home prices, which have climbed at double-digit rates in recent years, still appear to be rising for the nation as a whole, though significantly less rapidly than before. These developments in the housing market are not particularly surprising, as the sustained run-up in housing prices, together with some increase in mortgage rates, has reduced affordability and thus the demand for new homes.”




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99 Comments »

Comment by Moman
2006-07-19 09:28:17

“Gross profit margins on home sales in the quarter averaged 23.2%, down from 24.5% a year earlier. The drop was primarily due to $20 million of inventory write-downs and increased sales discounts.”

It’s sick how much the builders make off those crap boxes. Never mind the HUGE welfare loss from producing products that no one wants.

Comment by Shawn
2006-07-19 11:39:48

They’ll need those profits when reality sets in. We’ve been in a declining interest rate environment for *25* years thru 2003 with rates down over 80% from 1980. Add in the credit bubble at the top and this is the mother of all RE bubbles. When it’s over, the late 80s damage will be mild in comparison…unless the government steps in and crushes the dollar in the process. The bag-holders will be left with illiquid deeds watching their global buying power erode over time.

On a separate note, I can’t believe the GSEs are simply a welfare system that’s much bigger than the one called welfare. They don’t care *ONE IOTA* about credit quality of the borrower. They buy up the loans and perform due dilligence. What do they do you ask? They make sure the property is as described (e.g. it’s really a 2 story SFH and not a shack), that the borrower is a real person and is alive. If it’s a crack-wh*re living in Mexico they absolutely do not care. And the banks are *required* by your government to “prove that they loan and/or create a market for all borrows”. Instead of making bad loans, they invest in pools of loans made to high-risk borrows. The bottom line: if you are irresponsible and don’t care this is great. If you’re not making much money but want to own a home and actually pay your mortgage (how quaint), you are being hurt by this system. You are paying much more for a house than you should.

 
Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2006-07-19 11:41:36

You might note that this is GROSS profit, not net. The builders aren’t making that much (on average) on every house, since that figure doesn’t include other expenses involved in the business. If you look at their annual reports from the last year or so, you’ll see that most have been around a 9 or 10% profit margin, some higher, some lower.

 
Comment by Marc Authier
2006-07-19 15:54:16

It’s called capitalism and free entreprise. It’s not their fault if in general, Americans are soo damn stupid. Look for who they voted for.

 
 
Comment by colorado_renter
2006-07-19 09:28:58

OT But looks like google is dabbling with Real Estate listings
Its strange as its not listed as feature or beta feature anywhere (may be pressure from realtors ??) .
Here is an example:

http://tinyurl.com/rhuut

Currently it points to RE listings on realtor’s page and other sources.
But I Hope they continue developing this and make it a beta product and eventually replace MLS.

Comment by flatffplan
2006-07-19 11:04:11

cool , death to the mls !
W tried but their lobby is too strong

Comment by SLO Bear
2006-07-19 11:33:35

This is exactly what it will take. A company like Google or eBay, who have the experience, to finally put an end to the MLS.

 
Comment by KennyBabes
2006-07-19 19:20:39

W tried my a$$.

 
 
Comment by UnRealtor
2006-07-19 11:48:00

Lots of stale and incorrect info. Looks like Google is just guessing at stuff it comes across on various websites.

Interesting, but not entirely useful.

Some addresses are 1/2 mile away from where the arrow indicates.

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2006-07-19 09:31:07

From the Ryland link:

‘Ryland repurchased 1.8 million shares of its stock during the quarter at a cost of $103.1 million. The company has the authorization to purchase another $101.7 million of additional shares. Oppenheim says future buybacks will be more modest given the continued worsening of housing trends and the company’s slight increase in leverage.’
And the NAR:

‘NAR’s fourth annual National Housing Opportunity Pulse Survey reveals a growing concern among Americans about the high cost of housing. By a two-to-one margin, people are worried about their monthly housing payments. About six in ten say that high property taxes and rising energy costs could cause them to sell their home. Almost four in ten are worried about rising home interest rates. Three in ten are worried that they or members of their family may have their home repossessed because they are unable to pay rising monthly mortgage payments. More than one third are worried that they may have to sell their home and buy a less expensive one because they are unable to pay rising monthly payments.’

Comment by lalaland
2006-07-19 09:48:00

Holy cow. Those poll numbers — taken by the NAR no less — are stunning. BB can say all he likes about reasonable cooling in the housing sector, but these on-the-ground numbers tell the real (scary) story.

 
Comment by Getstucco
2006-07-19 10:35:15

It doesn’t seem like a Fed pause followed by higher inflation would do much to save the housing market. The likely consequences would be a spike in long-term interest rates (inflation premium) and a further squeeze on strained household budgets due to higher inflation.

Comment by east beach
2006-07-19 10:57:45

I have a feeling the sheep will equate their ARM teaser rates expiring with “that darn Federal Reserve keeps rising interest rates!”

Comment by Mort
2006-07-19 11:01:13

The sheeple need a scapegoat. Like Gentle Ben held a gun to their head and made them sign that third refi in as many years.

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Comment by flatffplan
2006-07-19 11:05:53

get an arm loan” Alan Greenspin

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Comment by Robert Cote
2006-07-19 11:38:53

Myth.

 
Comment by flatffplan
2006-07-19 11:46:27

feb 2004- search
arm is good !

 
Comment by Marc Authier
2006-07-19 15:57:30

But legs are better when you have to escape and flee from a crumbling real estate market. Run for your lives!

 
 
 
Comment by Bill In Phoenix
2006-07-19 11:01:52

Also consider the upcoming revelation that Middle East oil producing nations including Saudi Arabia passed their peak production. “Twilight in the Desert,” by Matthew Simmons is an eye-opener. True that the printing of excess money causes inflation. But real shortages of X cause prices to rise in everything directly or indirectly related to X. It’s the law of supply and demand. Gas at $6.00 per gallon, compared to $3.00 per gallon means $3.00 per gallon less cash a consumer will have available to spend on other goods. Petroleum is also used in pesticides, all sorts of manufacturing, shipping, and so forth. We also have the 1970s to show us that the “oil crisis” back then was a huge drag on the economy. I say that inflation will be turned up a notch in the next few years, even if people decide not to spend as much, due to being in serious debt from ARMs. The Fed will be forced to raise the rates to counteract price hikes in oil-based products. I still say rates will go up above 7.75% in a couple of years.

Comment by wet_chet
2006-07-19 11:30:42

I think what you’re describing is stag-flation. An exogenous event (rapid rise in oil prices) is the primary cause for the inflation throughout the economy, not necessarily an overheated economy. In order to control the inflation, you crank up interest rates, which slows the economy further.

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Comment by hd74man
2006-07-19 12:14:42

Gas at $6.00 per gallon, compared to $3.00 per gallon means $3.00 per gallon less cash a consumer will have available to spend on other goods.

Already happening.

New England tourism biz is in the crapper.

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Comment by Pogo Town
2006-07-19 11:40:50

Did anyone look at the survey details PDF file? One of the last questions:

D10 - what kind of mortage you have:
42% An interest-only mortgage
17% An adjustable rate mortgage
3% Have a balloon or other large payment due in the next five years?
34% NO
5% REFUSED

Holy cow, 42% answered they have an Interest/Only mortgage?! That’s just not a lot of mortgages in the last few years, that’s of random sampling of CURRENT homeowners!

Comment by We Rent!
2006-07-19 18:22:03

Not that I don’t believe the jist of the numbers, it is important to note that a survey is NOT a random sample.

 
 
Comment by Rental Watch
2006-07-19 11:57:06

More than one third are worried that they may have to sell their home and buy a less expensive one because they are unable to pay rising monthly payments.

That “More than a third” are screwed. Needing to sell when no one wants to buy is a bad situation to be in.

 
Comment by Tom
2006-07-19 11:58:28

Also, remember that rising Rents to factor into Core inflation. I have a feeling that Apartments may be the next bubble as these builders try and move here.

Comment by Rental Watch
2006-07-19 12:25:27

I’m not sure how apartments could be a bubble, unless people are paying cap rates that are way too low anticipating further rent increases - is that what you are thinking?

Comment by Tom
2006-07-19 13:31:44

Well Rents rise, which makes them look more profitable. As a developer / Builder, you go where you can at least make SOME money. This is why I think condos will now be built as apartments. They might do high-end, but the low-end with lower margins is where the short term demand is. It won’t be long, however, till those too begin the downward slide. There is just way too much housing out there and not enough demand across the board period.

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Comment by hd74man
2006-07-19 12:13:13

About six in ten say that high property taxes and rising energy costs could cause them to sell their home.

Hmmmm…so who do these homeowner’s think they are going to sell to?

Illegal immigrants workin’ under the table???????

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2006-07-19 09:38:40

And if more than half the people are worried that they can’t afford their homes, who will buy them at the price they need to pay off their HELOC, NegAm, IO, and other FB loan. And if all these people sell, where will they be living as there has not been a lot of less expensive homes built close in to where most of the jobs are. Let’s let the experts answer. Liar-rah? No comment. “In the Bagg” Watts? They will live in a bag. LAY - they are F@cked. no further comments. Ok, there we have it. People are really deep in doodoo. Now we would like to hear the real expert, Bubbles the Clown - where can we find him?

Comment by Bubble Butt
2006-07-19 10:46:29

As GetStucco would say: these FB’s are stucco.

Comment by JCanada
Comment by Joe Schmoe
2006-07-19 12:09:49

This is wonderful news!

The Realtors seem to be trying to speed up the crash by talking about a “crisis” in the housing market.

This would help them in two ways. First, it will restore the ability of buyers to, you know, buy faster.

Second, it will enable them to pressure their own clients into lowering their asking prices. The realtor doesn’t get paid until the sale goes through, so it’s in his or her interest to get the price cut as fast as possible, especially in a saturated market with lots of listings.

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Comment by Moopheus
2006-07-19 12:05:47

Each month, something on the order of 0.5% of US households buy a new home. Somewhere around 3% of all homes are on the market (so roughly a 5-6 months supply). And we’re already seeing sales slowing down, inventory piling up in many markets. What would happen if that increased to 6% of all homes for sale? 10%? I don’t even want to guess.

 
Comment by Rainman18
2006-07-19 12:13:04

BTC is in a halfway house working on episode #8 :)

Comment by huggybear
2006-07-19 15:21:18

Oh Bubbles, not again. (sigh)

Comment by Rainman18
2006-07-19 16:38:09

huggybear,

Bubbles mentioned you in the last episode…don’t know if you caught it.

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Comment by Jerry
2006-07-19 09:44:48
Comment by Greenlander
2006-07-19 10:08:21

At least he’s getting some good honest advice over there: sell now and get out before it slides further.

 
Comment by txchick57
2006-07-19 10:52:03

Oh, now you’ve done it :) Stop me, someone.

Comment by Mort
2006-07-19 10:57:42

Go over there and tell Mr. four kids what’s on your mind. ;-)

Comment by Backstage
2006-07-19 11:25:09

And he did……Good advice, though, TX

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Comment by feepness
2006-07-19 12:14:12

Compassion people.

These people will experience far more pain than we can/should inflict.

Foolishness is inevitable and it is more than apparent now that those of us that did not participate will be pretty damn well off.

Buying their house at 60% of their price from them (or the bank) in 3 years? Perfectly ethical.

Rubbing their nose in it and laughing? Not ethical.

You’ll like yourself better too, and you don’t have to feel so irritated at yourself when you do something stupid as well.

Just my opinion.

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Comment by Happy LA Renter
2006-07-19 14:51:35

These people will experience far more pain than we can/should inflict.

Foolishness is inevitable and it is more than apparent now that those of us that did not participate will be pretty damn well off.

Buying their house at 60% of their price from them (or the bank) in 3 years? Perfectly ethical.

Rubbing their nose in it and laughing? Not ethical.

Like your ethics and you are right. I for one won’t laugh at them, although those I knew who bought a few years ago were laughing at me, making fun of me, but I won’t do it to them. No need. Their pain will be enough.

 
Comment by Soliel
2006-07-19 15:15:32

I agree. You know, I can’t blame a guy for wanting to earn money for his family. While flipping houses is not the most respectable investment…it’s better than selling drugs, pornography or some other investment that causes harm.
Some flippers are tremendously greedy, yes, but some just want a “piece of the pie”. It doesn’t mean they are terrible people.
I agree…COMPASSION is called for. The next time you are down on your luck you will understand better.

 
Comment by txchick57
2006-07-19 16:25:19

Earn money for his family? Spare me, please. What would be wrong with getting a job and doing it? He’s a greedy, mindless fool like so many other of them and like the rest of them, cries like a baby when things dont’ work out the way the seminar guru “promised.”

No, I have no compassion, but plenty of contempt.

 
Comment by SF Mechanist
2006-07-20 00:25:32

I’m gonna laugh at the cornucopia of FB quotes that have only just begun– just not in their face. Is that unethical?

 
 
 
Comment by Rainman18
2006-07-19 12:25:09

txchick, the entertainment value of watching you storm in there and hose those dolts down is pricless…you are definitely the Queen Bee in their bonnet.

Comment by Rainman18
2006-07-19 12:27:01

But you did give some good advice so kudos…

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Comment by auger-inn
2006-07-19 14:16:13

Yo Tex, I don’t want to be accused of egging on a “chick fight” or anything but someone over on that SDCIA is wondering why you are so incredulous over your former digs going from 400K to 1mil. Seems the guy (or gal) thinks 5.6% appreciation on housing should be about right. Apparently affordability should never be an issue, or at least that’s my impression. At any rate, I was going to jump in but then I thought “Hey, you know who would really enjoy this better than you Auger? That’s right, Ole Tex would probably really like to kick that retard right in the teeth and do a better job, at that”. So there you have my whole thought process for this lengthy heads up about your post being disparaged over there. And for the record, I’m not fomenting a brawl over there!

Comment by Rainman18
2006-07-19 14:57:21

Someone actually went to the trouble of compiling a table with the 5.6% apprectiation over the 17 years (400k - 1mil). But he extrapolated out the gains to show a straight line curve. What he fails to show is the 300%+ skyrocket since 2000-2001.

I must be missing his point.

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Comment by Barnaby33
2006-07-19 16:25:57

Most of the time I too love the caustic nature of txchick57’s comments, though not this time. The FB is an idiot, but man the real pain is being him, waking up each morning thinking you have just dug your family that much deeper a pit.

Maybe he was a bit greedy, though relative to the times I certainly don’t think so, he only had one property to flip, not multiple. Just remember if you don’t risk you don’t get a reward and so her comment about, “four kids who depend on you financially,” rings hollow. In his mind thats probably a large reason for why he did it.

Comment by Sly_Ace
2006-07-19 19:45:58

The guy went to a Robert Allen seminar. Come on. Not only should any thinking human being know that if it sounds too good to be true, it is, but a few minutes on Google would clue anybody in re the Nothing Down guy.

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Comment by txchick57
2006-07-20 05:48:21

Again, I would say that having four kids depending on you should stop you from taking ridiculous risks like that. I wouldn’t do it and I have NO kids depending on me.

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Comment by RW
2006-07-19 12:36:15

That “poor” gentleman has not learned anything. See his reply to the good advice…”lowball offer”. He is still GREEDY-GREEDY-GREEDY. No sympathy, sorry.

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2006-07-19 09:45:33

More great reasons to love CA. Prices will never go down there. Everyone wants to live next to the beach. Here is why!!! LOL

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_on_sc/beach_bacteria

Comment by MB Renter
2006-07-19 14:05:12

That isn’t news. Everyone who lives within a couple of miles of the sand knows not to go to the ocean for up to 3 days after even the slightest sprinkle of rain.

I am surprised, however, that Manhattan got good grades. They must not have checked El Porto.

Comment by huggybear
2006-07-19 15:29:36

My brother likes to paddle board and launches from Marina Del Rey. Not long ago he got a cut on his foot and paddled out. Caught a “flesh eating” virus from the ocean. He sent me pictures, nasty stuff. Required a night in the hospital with IV and a few weeks of treatment to recover. This was about 2 months ago.

Comment by Sunsetbeachguy
2006-07-19 19:55:26

It is bad and sad.

Ironically in So OC, volunteer surfers caught one wealthy homeowner throwing dog cr@p over the fence and into the ravine.

Guess what the source of the E-coli contamination at the beach was?

Homeowner got fined but nothing else.

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Comment by robin
2006-07-19 22:58:18

Should have thrown the wealthy homeowner over the fence.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by buddhaman
2006-07-19 09:47:21

“Ryland had 3,803 closings in the quarter, down 5.8 percent from the same period last year. New orders fell over 39 percent, to 3,023 units.” - this from their release on msn.com

Ok - someone who is stock savvy please answer this… i’ve been following Ryland closely, and from their release - the first sentence about closings was the “stealth” bad news to me - if last year was their all time record breaking selling year, and they have this huge backlog of homes to build from the record selling year - how could closings go down, except if there are waves of cancellations going on that they are not reporting? They recently redesigned their website and you can no longer see the inventory lists that were growing weekly. Combined with the nearly 40% drop in new orders, isn’t the lower closings number a really, really bad sign???

Comment by implosion
2006-07-19 11:27:06

Apparently not. The stock is up almost 7% today.

 
Comment by DebtVulture
2006-07-19 11:46:23

Their cancellations increased from 20% last year to 36% during this quarter and spec homes increased from 1050ish (12/31/05) to 1760.

 
 
Comment by mrincomestream
2006-07-19 09:56:15

Looks like the MSM is starting to beat up on real estate. Maybe the tide is turning in the press.

http://tinyurl.com/rqqca

Comment by Mort
2006-07-19 10:56:42

Internal Revenue Service figures show that the agency initiated 235 real estate fraud cases against individuals in 2005, more than double the number it brought in 2001. The IRS expects that figure to remain steady this year. The Feds are taking it seriously–they’ve stepped up penalties to fight mortgage fraud, doubling average jail terms to four years for those convicted, says Andre Martin, a director in the Criminal Investigations Division of the IRS.

Oh man is that a good article. All the fraudsters better start to pucker up. Maybe there is a god. :D

Comment by Marc Authier
2006-07-19 18:37:30

You mean that God will be putting George W. and Dick in prison. The Feds should start with the White House.

 
 
 
Comment by Nikki
2006-07-19 10:23:06

BS from Bernanke, what happened to not preserving asset prices? As far as I can see, prices on homes are stil lrising across the country and are just moderating, what’s there to worry about, right? It’s just normalizing, as the Realtors like to say. Like I said in the previous thread, Bernanke is too new and therefore too concerned about the political pressure he is facing to raise rates any further. IMO, that makes his credibility about zero. Or, OTOH, could he be telling Congress what it wants to hea, being purposefully vague? With a 0.3% jump in core CPI each of the last 4 months, I don’t know what other data he’s looking for for guidance, and if the decision really is data-dependent, they should have no choice but to move upwards.

Comment by Nikki
2006-07-19 10:25:22

And if by households he doesn’t mean houses themselves, what the heck is he talking about, consumer spending? Because that’s slowed, yes, but not all that much.

 
 
Comment by David Sternfeld
2006-07-19 10:30:54

What unnoticed and unquoted bearish indicator has been climbing to higher and higher levels? The number of comments here on “The Housing Bubble Blog” has been climbing steadily and is now frequently around 200. :)

Things are never as good or as bad as they seem.

Best,

Comment by txchick57
2006-07-19 10:54:31

I had that same thought. Dancing bears and just in time for a pause in rate hiking.

Still long HBs. Wasn’t the best timed trade I ever did but still happy to hold onto ‘em for a short while.

 
2006-07-19 11:02:41

I would tend to call that a bullish indicator. The HB stocks are probably bottoming now, time for the bounce.

Comment by txchick57
2006-07-19 11:14:28

That’s what I meant.

 
 
Comment by Rental Watch
2006-07-19 12:21:23

IMHO, if the housing market is in for as big a correction as most on the blog believe, then we are nowhere near the bottom for homebuilders. A lot of their profits are still coming from homes that they are selling on lots they bought a few years ago (thus the 20%+ margins). The proformas for new projects will generally show an 8-10% profit margin–we will be back to “normal”, when profit margins are more in line with the initial proformas (perhaps a bit better to take into account some moderate increase in home values). Until they start to sell homes on the lots they bought 6-12 months ago en masse, they will have reasonably good earnings, giving a false sense of security.

I think the right time to jump back into home builders is going to be after negative articles are more prevalent, borrowing becomes tougher on the heels of mass defaults (from ARM borrowing), and home builders don’t just make less money, but they actually have had some losses.

If you don’t believe that home builders will get to the point of having losses, then I’m not sure you’re all that bearish on housing, or believe that there is a bubble at all.

Comment by Doc
2006-07-19 17:00:17

If tradespeople are becoming as desperate across the country as they are here in central VA, why can’t the home builders just squeeze them to drop their costs and then lower their prices and still make good $?

I see something like this driving down new home prices over time without bankrupting the builders.

Of course, peak buyers are screwed, but we already knew that.

 
Comment by Sly_Ace
2006-07-19 19:48:14

I tend to agree, but the risk-reward with respect to shorting the HBs keeps getting worse as they keep hitting new lows.

 
 
 
Comment by lovpunani
2006-07-19 11:03:08

Do economist regularly contradict themselves in the same article? or just this Thornberg person.

I was reading this article in a newspaper for San Bernardino, CA.
Read what Christopher Thornberg a senior economist of UCLA.

Region’s home sales looking like ‘classic bubble’

http://www.sbsun.com/ci_4067499

“The soft-landing people are full of nonsense,” said Christopher Thornberg, senior economist at UCLA. “This is a classic bubble. And unit sales are falling faster than in past bubbles.”

“We are in the middle of this decline. If we are lucky, prices will go flat. But we are not going to have prices fall like the stock market. You won’t see declines of 10 percent or 15 percent per year. What will happen is that prices will flatten out,” he said, adding that there might not be housing appreciation until 2011.

Comment by Backstage
2006-07-19 11:34:01

Thornberg has been predicting the end of the bubble for some time. Something happened several months ago and he moderated his stance. I think his first comment is his real belief, and the second comment is cover.

That is the essence of econspeak. Tell them what you see, then cover it with what might happen.

Comment by Sunsetbeachguy
2006-07-19 19:59:51

On a tenured University professor salary he can’t afford a bodyguard.

Now that his prediction from 2003, 2004, 2005 are coming true and the crackhead FB’ers are starting to get pissed he doesn’t want to paint that big of a target on his own back.

JMO

 
 
Comment by dwr
2006-07-19 11:34:38

I just posted that article in another thread. I really am starting to question Thornberg’s intellect.

Comment by lovpunani
2006-07-19 11:41:14

Sori dwr did not know you already did. Well he is smart to cover himself..:)

Comment by dwr
2006-07-19 13:06:28

I think I posted it after you did, I was just saying I saw the same article and had the same reaction to Thornberg’s comments. :-)

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Comment by SF Mechanist
2006-07-20 00:36:55

I saw his 50 minute video which was cool, but recent statements seem to be doublespeak. Academia crushes intellect under the profits and interests industry and liberal politics– and then charges students exorbitant prices to hear that self-serving drivel to boot.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Ozarkian from California
2006-07-19 11:37:46

He means prices will crash, therefore the slope of the price line will go vertically down, and then it will stay that way — therefore it will be flat, in the new sideways view.

Comment by Getstucco
2006-07-19 11:54:50

Right — here is one of the precursors to this new definition of flat prices:

http://tinyurl.com/f5boq

 
 
Comment by Mole Man
2006-07-19 16:44:29

This is consistent with what happened in the last correction. Prices only went down a few percent per year in most places, and over the total time of the downturn prices uncorrected for inflation merely stagnated. Most of the damage done to prices was done by years of inflation. This is also true of other busts like in Japan where Tokyo apartment prices are very similar to the prices of fifteen or more years ago in raw numbers not adjusted for inflation.

Comment by chilidoggg
2006-07-20 05:54:57

ummm. no. firstly, a 30% decline in nominal prices is not a “correction.” and real prices in 1995 were not the same as 1990. but maybe you’re comparing real prices in 1990 to real prices in 2002…

 
 
 
Comment by AZ_BubblePopper
2006-07-19 11:09:26

“During the current quarter, California residential real estate markets continued to show signs of slower sales and flattening home values. In addition, the amount of negative amortization associated with option ARM loans continued to increase and may result in certain borrowers reaching their limit of negative amortization permitted under the terms of their loan, thereby resulting in an increase in their minimum monthly loan payment and the potential for higher delinquencies.”

OUCH! This will be particularly unwelcome for FBs holding $800K+ NegAM loans. They’re trapped. Upside down, no refi options on negative equity, no margin for vultures and can’t afford the payments.

Lenders - Get ready for a steady strem of REOs!

Comment by Backstage
2006-07-19 11:45:51

No way out. When you get to the end of your rope, you gotta let go.

 
 
Comment by Backstage
2006-07-19 11:11:09

Why, oh why does the media keep on insisting that higher interest rates are the thing keeping buyers away? It’s price, and the perception that prices are going to fall. Interest rates are only a part of that equation.

And interest rates are still historically low. If we can’t make it at 6%, how are we going to make it at 8%

http://tinyurl.com/k5s4c

Comment by implosion
2006-07-19 11:35:05

If I were buying and there were a rate pause, I’d be inclined to think I had even more time to look before buying.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2006-07-19 12:24:24

Because it is an irrefutable law of nature that housing always goes up . . . therefore if a home doesn’t sell, it’s not because the price is too high, for because fo the law, the price CAN’T go down. (I hope the sarcasm comes through)

 
Comment by rzero
2006-07-19 13:21:09

Exactly. If it was 7% interest rates that started this bubble, then it can’t be 7% rates that are killing the bubble. These reporters don’t understand the defintion of a bubble. The only reason a bubble needs to pop it that IT IS A BUBBLE. That is why it is called a bubble. Nobody watching a kid blow bubbles says to themselves, “Why are these bubbles popping? It must be from some kind of sudden change in atmospheric pressure.” They are popping because they are bubbles. Unsustainability is part of what defines them.

 
 
Comment by damon botsford
2006-07-19 11:51:07

gloooooooomy retail forcast just on CNBC. Also can’t wait to see earnings today from Ebay, Intel, Motorola, Apple. I have a feeling this run up today will be very short lived.

Comment by damon botsford
2006-07-19 12:57:27

Well, earnings in… everything looks rosey… the economy is chugging along… Kudlow is happy(for the time being)… I’ll boil and eat my shoes if we don’t see 5.5% on August 8th.

 
Comment by Marc Authier
2006-07-19 18:39:11

Don’t forget Yahoo that is crashing.

 
 
Comment by Melody
2006-07-19 11:57:37

The herd mentality on Wall Street is hillarious……like everything will magically change because dumbass Bernanke speaks. I never go with the herd.

Comment by Marc Authier
2006-07-19 18:46:14

People specially on Wall Street love magic. It’s their profession of selling magic tricks. Abracadabra now you see your money! Pfff! No you don’t! Abracadabra.

 
 
Comment by Arwen U.
2006-07-19 17:41:59

UGH

Northern VA Flopper story

“Owner pins hopes on real estate auction
And that auction would bring to an end New Baltimore resident Dean Oriend’s final hope for a profitable investment for his children and family’s future”.

http://tinyurl.com/ewesd

And the irony - one mile from this auction site is a huge sign outside of Century 21. It says “The Market is Fine, Jump on in, Call us for the Facts.”

 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2006-07-19 21:48:16

I love hearing FB stories. So heartwarming. Bring on more. Thanks to Arwen for that great one.

To that dude: TOO BAD, SO SAD !!!!! lol

 
Comment by armchair economist
2006-07-20 07:45:39

“…fewer homes in June as higher mortgage rates discouraged buyers. Would-be homebuyers are moving to the sidelines, dissuaded by the highest mortgage rates in four years….”

Just how stupid does the Wall Street Journal think its readers are? Do they honestly think that their readership will not recognize that a 30yr fixed at 6.75% is historically low, and that this assertion is full of shyte? Please! Buyers are on the sidelines, because you can’t afford a 600K condo on a 60K a year income.

 
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