‘Builders Problem Could Mean Big Break For Buyers’
The Tampa Tribune takes us back to Florida. “My, what a difference a year makes. Builders who overestimated this summer’s new home demand face contract cancellations and slowing sales as a backlog of nearly finished houses piles up. The builders’ problem could mean big breaks for buyers.”
“Just glance through newspaper classified advertising sections to see how serious builders are to make a deal. Price cuts of as much as $75,000 off the bottom line. Deal sweeteners such as upgraded counter tops or having property taxes or closing costs paid for you. Drawings for a free, two-year lease on a new car.”
“‘Obviously we want to stay in business, but we have to sell homes to stay in business,’ said Ralph Sevelius, president of Inland Homes Suncoast. Inland is offering allowances of up to $56,000 on some homes. The money can be used to lower sale prices or pay closing costs. Some home prices have been reduced as much as $60,000.”
“Investors who bought months ago now are competing with builders to unload their homes. Analysts say some investors and consumers are leaving their contract deposits behind and walking away from homes under construction. ‘The cancellation rates builders are seeing are comparable to those builders were seeing after 9/11,’ said analyst Rick Murray. ‘Investors are bailing, and so are legitimate buyers. They fear it’s not the best time to buy.’”
“Some people wait to buy, expecting builders to offer a better deal later, said Beth Day, (in) marketing for Bruce Williams Homes, based in Bradenton. ‘We want to help the consumer who’s really ready to buy but fear they’ll miss out’ by not waiting, Day said. So Bruce Williams Homes is experimenting with guaranteed pricing. If the price goes down on the same house in the same neighborhood after you sign the contract and before you close on the home, the builder will give you the same discount.”
“They’re not the only ones trying to beat the incentive game with guaranteed pricing. Mike Southward, Tampa Division President for Lennar Homes, said his company is offering it, too. ‘We feel we’re already offering buyers the lowest price we can,’ Southward said. ‘So we’re giving buyers this insurance.’”
“Since January, Lennar has lowered prices on some homes by as much as $65,000 on a $315,000 home, but Southward said Lennar can’t afford to lower prices further. Instead, it’s sticking with guaranteed pricing. ‘When you’re negotiating, one guy gets a better deal, and that’s not fair.’ Southward said.”
“Kevin Robles, division VP for McCar Homes, based in Atlanta, said he has seen some builders discount homes as much as $100,000, ‘but they probably had the home overpriced by $50,000.’”
“There are just under 30,000 homes on the market, according to the Greater Tampa Association of Realtors. That’s nearly four times the amount in spring 2005.” “All the builders’ incentives could make the existing home market worse since most sellers aren’t in a position to offer the kinds of incentives builders do. They’re trying unique approaches. In Westchase, Daniel and Cynthia Lobb are frustrated by the lack of buyer interest. They lowered the price to $414,900, but still got no takers. Now they’re telling prospective buyers that 1 percent of their profit will go to charity.”
“‘There are so many houses in supply in our area,’ Daniel Lobb said. ‘We thought, ‘What can we do differently to set us apart?’”
Thanks to the reader who sent in this link. I’ve got some thunderstorms here, so my last post may be delayed. Hopefully not.
drop prices. that is the only way that people are going to buy your home. when i sign the contract, i take on the contract. when i get a car or granite tops, it doesnt affect the final price i pay for a home. if you dont drop your price, you will wake up in 07 and damn, damn, damn!!!
This is off topic but I found this “advice” on a SDCIA bulletin board from a fellow board member describing an “exit” strategy for a home in Tucson bought by a flipper in trouble.
“It seems to me that the strategies break down into two categories, depending upon whether you are personally responsible to pay the loan. Here in CA, if you sell a house with a purchase-mortgage loan on it, you are not responsible for the loan after the sale.
However, this is not true in most of the other states. However, if you ARE NOT personally responsible for the loan, I’d suggest the following approach. Deed the property over to somebody who does not care about their credit report. Perhaps a minor, a derelict, a very elderly person who never buys on credit, somebody else who does not care. Make sure that your “sales agreement” makes you responsible for the ownership expenses so you will be able to deduct them from your taxes. Then rent out the property for as much rent as you can. After a few months, stop paying the mortgage and let the property go to foreclosure. Later you have “credible deniability” for the loan. That is, you can explain to credit granters that you were not responsible for the new owner’s having defaulted on the loan.”
This has come up already on this blog. What he is suggesting is fraud and incredibly cruel. I suspect the Karmic rebound would be astounding; that and a few years in federal prison.
Yes, yes, prison, that’s the one.
What’s telling about the SDCIA bulletin board is that the guy who blatantly suggested committing mortage fraud is one of their most prolific and respected posters. Only a single poster over there expressed mild disapproval, which shows the moral and ethical caliber of the flippers posting on that board. Watching them crash and burn will be schadenfreude at its finest.
The person who signed the loan is responsible for that loan. The bank would never allow the deed to be signed over, and in the case of my home loan, the bank is holding the deed. The above sounds like urban legand.
Not at all. The flippers call this “subject to”. The property is sold “subject to” the existing encumbrance(s) - mortgages, liens, etc. The lenders are simply not informed of the sale and generally do not bother to check periodically. Normally this is done so the flipper can retain an existing mortgage even though the mortgage has a “due on sale” clause. It, too, is fraudulent, but is very common. Just check any of the flipper boards or course materials.
Except that the deed of trust specifically prohibits transfer of the collateral to someone else until it’s satisfied. That would make the sale null and void since the debtor doesn’t have sufficient interest in the deed to transfer it.
A house isn’t really sold until the transaction is recorded, and deed would show the lien at the time of recording. It’s pretty simple, you can’t sell what you don’t own. You don’t own the property until you pay the mortgage.
“The above sounds like urban legand”
It is
Well yeah, but this is what this guys are being reduced to! Legitimate ploys have been exhausted so now they’re going to anonymous strangers seeking the level of advice they should have paid for in the first place. No, not going to a weekend seminar and buying some tapes but consulting with a RE atty. that charges by the hour! Check out their boards, there are some desperate people over there, and “We’ve only just begun”*
*The Carpenters
Wow, so much for personal integrity.
Go a ahead, screw up your kids or your grandparents credit by deeding the property over to them, but make sure that you retain the tax benefits. Then rent it out, stop paying the mortgage, screw the lender. Finally, walk away with the renters security deposit just as they receive the eviction notice from the bank.
These people should be disembowled.
If this is being presented as a way to protect the flippers credit its absurd, if the guy who took the loan stops paying it, the bank or other lender will make sure the borrower’s credit report is destroyed, I don’t care who he quit claimed the house to.
I sometimes received sales flyers such as this one
“Right now the Willamette valley is featuring some of the best appreciation in the country. Salem in the last few quarters has shown appreciation close to 30%. Salem has become an area of great employment, and a strong rental market. ”
Can anyone who is familiar with that area comment on this?
I live 9 miles north and east of Salem and I can tell you that the south end of town is lousy w/for sale McMansions. Certainly affordable by CA standards but way too pricey for Oregonians. It’s somewhat benefiting from the “rolling bubble”. But if you check the “Statesman Journal” go to Real Estate on the main menu and select RE Closings for that area and you’ll find builders aren’t getting anywheres near what they’re asking. My wife and I peruse the local RE rags and it’s the same homes/open houses week after week. Besides, Salem (b/c of it’s affordability) has become the “New S.E Portland” with gangs and violence. Go down Lancaster Drive and you have to crank your radio to hear over the sirens. Much of Salem looks like “Anytown, CA”. IMHO.
dl,
Don’t get me wrong, there are appealing parts of Salem like Bush Park by the College and other nice little “enclaves” but increasingly they’ve become isolated. Great neighbors (mostly state workers with an exaggerated sense of self importance) but nice. Nice, well cared for homes and neatly manicured lawns but the next main artery of traffic is filled with car chases and meth heads etc. etc. They even shot a 32 year old gal to death in Albany (just south of Salem) after commiting her 4th? armed robbery in 2 weeks. Not long ago “crime” in Albany was the football team toilet papered the cheerleaders houses and underage “keg parties”. I’ll bet they wish they could have that brand of crime again.
Lived in Albany from ‘68-’98…Hope to get back soon.
See what a big differnece this year made?..wait until 2007
Yes,
The “tidal wave” hits 2Q07 and continues on throughout the year.
Christmas 2007 is not going to be too chipper. I expect another remake of “A Christmas Carol.”
Neil
2007 will be the first wave of the tsunami. After that wave recedes 2008 will be the second wave that brings back all the carnage that was swept out to sea and deposits it on the shore. Ugh!
The speed of internet reporting and this blog will bring a dot.com realty bust inthe middle of August, 2006…not a year from now. The July figures will be reported mid August, and even the most head-in-the-sand seller will realize they are stuck. No buyers are going to leave the beach in middle of hot August to visit an overpriced home, when there are hundreds to choose from. The stock market dropped 500 points in one day, this bubble will not be different
David, this is not going to be a ’switch on the carnage’ scenario. It will play out over months and years. The fallout will terrible for many.
I think there must be some very nervous lending institutions out there as they watch the security on loans desolve.
$1 trillion in Arms resets in 2007…….that figure just boggles my mind.
Oh well………let the games begin
Don’t forget that $1 trillion in 2008.
The entire mortgage market is ~$8 trillion. >25% set to adjust for the first time in 2006-2008.
Ouch.
“Since January, Lennar has lowered prices on some homes by as much as $65,000 on a $315,000 home…
How would you like seeing ~ 20% equity loss over 6 months ? And that is prior to any closing cost & cost to sell the house. In reality, flipper purchased in Dec 2005 could be losing ~ 30% of his purchase value if sells now.
Lumber’s down 30% since the beginning of the year. Other commodities will drop as building demand slows. Land prices will also be dropping. Many builders are already leting options on land expire and writing it off. They’ll buy the land later , cheaper. People with patience will be able to buy a house from a builder at even cheaper prices in a couple years. The builders won’t be making money hand over fist, like the last few years, but they will be able to build houses at lower prices.
You’re right.
It will be the transition though that will be painful. Lots of people bought with near nothing down and I/O ARMs. Lots of land developers who were trying to sell to homebuilders will be in the same situation as the recent homebuyers–basis much higher than value. After the period of adjustment, life will go on.
I suspect though that it will take a few years to get there (3-4).
some commodities may drop, but they’ll go back up again as the dollars falls and the commodity secular bull market starts back up again.
“The builders won’t be making money hand over fist, like the last few years, but they will be able to build houses at lower prices.”
Uhhh… Maybe some will…
“Lennar has lowered prices on some homes by as much as $65,000 on a $315,000 home, but Southward said Lennar can’t afford to lower prices further.”
1% to charity? How cheap can they get? You know the asking price is at least twice what they paid.
“1% to charity?”
For those trying to sell a property purchased in the last two years any and all profit would be charity.
They paid $221,700 in December of 1999. If they want to do something different, lower their price until it sells. Markets work both ways.
yeah, but they probably have HELOCs for another $200k.
I was right. It’s value (based on actual price plus improvements) in 2005 was 208k. They’re asking almost 415k after reducing the price from 430k. I’m not surprised by their cheapness. They’re like everyone else in Tampa.
For a while I’ve looked for a word that would sum up the relationship that many of today’s “homeowners” and “credit consumers” have with money and this comment about giving1% of PROFIT to charity kinda gave it to me. Yes, the word is CHILDISH. -Childish relationship to money. Not having any clue as to what the basic fundamentals are because these people never have managed real money just credit and credit lines which can get hypothetical as you sometimes don’t even have to pay anything back. Can we say bankruptcy and foreclosure.
Yes, 10% is the going standard if one wants to make a deal with one’s higher power. Greed kills.
Maybe the word should not be “cheapness” but “greed.”
What’s your magic number?
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Sacto is goin’ downnnnn.
Never mind numbers…….what’s for lunch?
45% of your income for the next 30 or more years.
Just lost my appetite
Ohhh you were talking about YOUR lunch.
“‘There are so many houses in supply in our area,’ Daniel Lobb said. ‘We thought, ‘What can we do differently to set us apart?’”
Three words.
Ummmm…stage it better? More sign twirlers? Wait till winter?
Lower The Price
Landscaping in back? Stainless steel appliances? Flat screen television? Come on, help us out here.
I know, people are so retarded. Lower it 50k and be done with it.
“Kevin Robles, division VP for McCar Homes, based in Atlanta, said he has seen some builders discount homes as much as $100,000, ‘but they probably had the home overpriced by $50,000.’”
Great logic. They discount $100k then say it was overpriced by $50k. This guy is a VP? I thought only someone that passed the real estate exam would say something that idiotic.
He’s referring to the “other guy” or other builders, probably to justify why his company’s discounts aren’t as much.
I checked the records on the Hillsborough County Property Appraiser website this morning. If I remember correctly, the Lobbs bought that house in 1999 for about $225,000.
The county currently appraises it at 208k.
‘Investors are bailing, and so are legitimate buyers. They fear it’s not the best time to buy.’”
Legitimate buyers? If the investors were not legitimate who sold to them?
The investors weren’t buying–they were putting damn near nothing down. The real buyers were the lenders, who actually weren’t the lenders at all, but the brokers who sold the notes to others (significant foreign money). So, really, the investors in US homes were the holders of foreign capital. They are ultimately going to be left holding the bag.
Nothing like an absentee owner to bring down prices quickly . . .
‘We want to help the consumer who’s really ready to buy but fear they’ll miss out’
These RE agents and builders can smell fear. To me, this statement blows the cover off their calculated sales techniques. They will go to any lengths to get into your pocket book. Caveat Emptor.
heres at thought. lets say your parents buy a home 500,000 home with any various of loans and the equity hasnt kicked in and your parents pass away. the price of life insurance isnt cheap and do anyone think that these kids can pay for all of the debt their parents home, including keep a home. we dont even invest in our future anymore. completely selfish and greed. people dont realize that the kids are going to suffer, if you dont invest in them. who is going to be responsible of the floppers properties? poor grandma better check her son’s life insurance. imagine, the life insurance that has to be paid to cover all this mess.
trouble in 07!
Why do I get the sense the wheels are coming off the RE market? Hmmmm….this is a real head-scratcher. Must be just a pause before next runup. Yeah, that’s it! No fukkin way am I gonna lose on that crib I bought last year to hold for 1 year to get long-term cap gain on. Damn good thing I waited me thinks. My 1-year hold is up in September, which is good cuz that’s when the NFL starts and folks will want my crib to put their new bigscreen tv in so’s to watch the games. All these negative reports bout RE are nonsense. I’m sure my house will sell like a warm muffin when it hits the market in September. God I love cap gain treatment! Sure glad I waited.
P.S. Any Azz-wipe trying to sell their house at same time as mine can suck my………..