August 20, 2006

Weekend Bits Bucket & Craigslist Links

Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here!




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Comment by crispy&cole
2006-08-19 04:17:20

Sac bee article =

Sales far from sizzling at downtown condo
But 500 N’s management still optimistic
By Bob Shallit — Bee Columnist
Published 12:01 am PDT Saturday, August 19, 2006
Story appeared in Business section, Page D1

Comment by crispy&cole
2006-08-19 04:18:20

Just 20 of the 123 available units have been sold since March when a sales office opened.

“I don’t think anybody anticipated we’d be where we are now,” says agent Leslie McBride, whose company took over sales of units in May.

_______________________________________

Looks like leslie might be there for a few years

Comment by Van Housing Blogger
2006-08-19 05:52:09

““I don’t think anybody anticipated we’d be where we are now,””

Looks like somebody hasn’t been reading the bits bucket!

 
Comment by DAVID
2006-08-19 06:25:57

Yeah Leslie is going to be there for sometime I am afraid. I had know idea that place went condo.

As for McBrides comment “McBride expects sales will pick up, since downtown is becoming a more popular residential destination. It’s just taking awhile to sign up the pioneers.”

Downtown for me at least still emptys out at 5:00 pm M-F when all the State Workers shut down and head home. I could make some State Worker comments at this point, but I will refrain.

The Convention Center draws a crowd on the weekends, but the Downtown plaza is really not that full on the weekends. Sacramento Downtown is just not that convient to live in, especially for a working family.

As for the restaurants downtown. They are good, sure I have eaten at a few of them. One thing Sacramento has a lot of is restaurants. There are restaurants all over the greater Sacramento area and restaurants downtown are not any better or any worse.

Maybe they will get some retired folk down there, but I thought all of them were headed to Florida. 1000 a day are going there you know. A thousand a day, my oh my.

I think people who buy condos down there are going to regret it later.

Comment by scdave
2006-08-19 09:08:51

David;….Sounds like you are familar with downtown…Can you tell me a little bit about the American River Parkway ???

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Comment by DAVID
2006-08-19 16:06:18

The American River Parkway is a long stretch. Your talking all the way from Folsom Dam to Sacramento River.

 
Comment by DAVID
2006-08-19 16:17:18

Sacramento is spotty place to live. There are nice areas that are next to less diserable areas to live. In this declining real estate market a lot of FB’s should be weary where they purchase a home in Sacramento. Better to rent and wait than buy a home in a less diserable area just to get in and never be able to sell. Sacramento has one neighborhood called Land Park, which is jewel that is surronded by just really bad neighborhoods. Although everyone needs a place to live good or bad is ones perception I guess.

 
Comment by John in Rocklin
2006-08-20 07:57:05

No one should buy ANYTHING in Sacramento for 24-36 months. This market is tanking. 10-15% drops since June 2005. All time listing records and slow sales. You will see $600,000 homes back to $350,000 in no time, which is where they should have been all along.

 
Comment by robert
2006-08-20 08:45:22

Sac’to has SERIOUS gang problems. Stay away! (Unless you’re an elected official)

 
 
Comment by waitingitout
2006-08-19 13:41:08

1000 a day was the census a few years ago, so that may not be the case anymore. Also, they never show how many people leave Florida. Half-backs, who are the folks who moved here from the northeast and are moving half way to the carolinas or tennessee, are increasingly becoming popular as it gets more expensive to live in Florida. Also, hurricanes have sent many people fleeing.

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Comment by Army No. Va.
2006-08-19 04:38:06

I’ve seen the idea that you go back to 1997 or 1998 before the bubble, use that price/value, and add inflation 3-4% each year to get to an equilibrium value. I understand that.

How would one apply this to this situation?

1935 house. In 1997, it had about 2000 sf of finished living area renovated to early 1980s style/standard. Large unfinished attic.
2BR-2Bath, 4 Living areas. 2000 sf above ground basement (unfinished). Price of comps (hard to do in old neighborhood), but let’s say $350K.

Today is has 4BR-3Baths-2 1/2 Baths-5 Living areas. 3400 SF finished to 1999-2000 standards. 2000 sf above ground unfinished basement. Sold recently $700K.

This in Atlanta GA.

Thanks, Army No. Va.

Comment by Peggy
2006-08-19 04:50:26

Is it in Buckhead?

Comment by Army No. Va.
2006-08-19 04:55:16

Morningside

Comment by Peggy
2006-08-19 05:15:27

OK. I asked about B’head because since 1935 that area of the city has enjoyed an almost constant premium due to it’s sustained desirability. Morningside’s premium hasn’t been as constant, but in recent years some areas of Morningside have been especially popular and probably have in fact appreciated faster than you’d determine using math alone.

That said, it sounds to me as though that sales price is just too high, based on the comps. I would guess that that house is going to be split up into multiple units or even become a condo (as has happened a lot in Poncey-Highlands and in the Midtown area around the High). But even so, it sounds as though that buyer paid too much. I feel sorry for him/her.

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Comment by Army No. Va.
2006-08-19 05:30:17

Looking on Domainia, recent SF homes nearby have sold for $650K-$675K that are a bit smaller in the 2500-2800 SF range (I’ve been in these houses…the only way to estimate quality/SF - can’t use online records). These also quality redos from 1998-2002. Another similar house across the street (in same sqft range and quality) sold for $635K in 2001.

I’d compare this area to Garden Hills (and it has better schools). This is East/North Mornginside Dr. It is less like Virginia Highlands (south of Virginia Ave) and Poncey.

 
Comment by Army No. Va.
2006-08-19 05:39:28

It’s interesting you mention Buckhead for more sustained value. True historically, but that seems to be a Boomer thing. Gen Xers and Yers (at my workplace and others) frown on Buckhead and praise MidTown/Grant Park/VH/Morningside/etc… They seem to actually *hate* Buckhead!

 
Comment by Peggy
2006-08-19 05:57:10

Well, I’m a boomer, so you’ve found me out. LOL But I’m serious when I say that Buckhead has been popular since the 30s, and you’ll not find too many boomers who were alive back then.

I think that the people who frown on Buckhead and love Midtown etc. are really reacting more to the cost of property in Buckhead than they are to the location. All of the areas that you listed have their plusses–for the right price. I have friends who live in each of those areas and they are all very happy (though probably the couple in Virginia Highlands like their neighborhood the best).

As for Garden Hills, you are correct that that area has more of an intrinsic value to long-time Atlantans than does Morningside. But would it surprise you to know that Gardens Hills has long be considered a “starter home” community for children raised in Buckhead, and the two neighborhoods are closely linked? I once attended a talk on this very subject.

Anyway, it sounds as though the area that you are talking about is a very nice area of Morningside. I guess what I’m trying to say is this:

There are some areas of Atlanta where housing prices have *consistently* risen faster than you can calculate simply using the standard “what the house was worth in X year plus inflation” formula. I would definitely take that into account when you are estimating the value of properties in Atlanta. But I *still* think that the price that you quoted was too high.

 
Comment by Army No. Va.
2006-08-19 06:04:20

Actually, it wasn’t the cost of property. $/SF seems similar for similar quality. It was *lifestyle* and *safety* the said. Buckhead (Peachtree corridor and surrounding neighborhoods) is great during the day (except for traffic), but check it (nightlife) out at 9-11PM and see if you still want to live there. Having walked those streets in both areas at 9-11PM, I’d agree with them.

North Buckhead is better, but definitely boomer country.

 
Comment by Peggy
2006-08-19 06:25:53

Well, we’re going to have differ on this one. There are certainly places in Buckhead where I would not walk at night. There are places all over Atlanta where I would not walk at night. But the interior areas of Buckhead are just as safe as the interior (non-commercial) areas of the other neighborhoods that you’ve listed. And the lifestyle in all of those areas is great, too. Those neighborhoods collectively define the best neighborhoods in Atlanta.

I’ve live in both Midtown and Buckhead, and I’d buy in either of those as well as the other neighborhoods that you’ve listed, *if* the price were right. But as I said, we’ll have to differ…

 
 
 
 
Comment by Jannifl
2006-08-19 04:52:02

Look at the 1999 comps in that area for a 4 BR, 3400 sq foot home.

Comment by Army No. Va.
2006-08-19 04:58:26

That’s hard to do as the tax records (SF) are all over the place. That’s why I doubt Zillow will ever really work well in Atlanta using the tax records anyway. With 5 living areas, the house could easily be converted to 6BRs-3Living as well.

Also, what about the two houses that are similar in size but one has been remodelled (well done) in 2000, another sports a well worn 1980s redo and desparate for updating (to the tune of $150K++)?

 
Comment by Army No. Va.
2006-08-19 05:01:38

I would guess, based on value-add (SF addition + quality improvement) that $350K in 1997 became $500K-550K in 1999-2000 along with just normal (for that timeframe) 3-4% appreciation.

 
 
Comment by Sunsetbeachguy
2006-08-19 05:04:13

What would it rent for?

$2000?

100-150 times that depending on your appetite for risk is and other factors (CA’s prop 13, etc).

I think that the GRM is the easiest back of the envelope calculations for fair value.

Comment by Army No. Va.
2006-08-19 05:32:02

I don’t know for sure…(rental). Nothing is for rent in that range. Smaller homes are in the $1700-$3000 range.

 
Comment by Army No. Va.
2006-08-19 06:10:36

Hmmm…thinking about this more…

I don’t recall ever seeing quality 1920s-30s housing in close in, good areas selling for “rental value” even in the worst crash situation in Austin in 1990-92. I don’t think Pemberton/Enfield ever got to less than 1.5-2x rental value for quality homes.

OTOH, 1980s “boom” tract housing actually fell to 20% or more LESS than rental value in Austin by 1990. Houses that could rent out for $550-$600/month were available for $35K-$45K.

 
 
Comment by tj & the bear
2006-08-19 08:02:46

I’ve seen the idea that you go back to 1997 or 1998 before the bubble, use that price/value, and add inflation 3-4% each year to get to an equilibrium value.

That’s just it, though — we’re not going back to equilibrium. Mean reversions always overshoot, running below equilibrium until all the excesses have been balanced out.

Try this analogy…

You go to a party and start drinking. The party picks up slowly, but more (and more interesting) people start arriving and drinking too. Everyone’s having so much fun that the drinks really start flowing. The wildest people are taking shots while dancing on the tables. Finally, at around 3am, everyone’s exhausted, dead-ass drunk and simply cannot party on any longer. Come the next day No, most are fighting one killer hangover, which waylays them for the better part of a day.

No “return to equilibrium” here.

p.s.: Adjusting for inflation doesn’t make sense, either, because home appreciation is tied to wage inflation, and we haven’t had any of that during the bubble.

Comment by jp
2006-08-19 08:11:15

Close italic

 
Comment by tj & the bear
2006-08-19 08:14:26

Sorry about that… lost a sentence in there somewhere, too. We REALLY need a preview/edit feature!!!

It was supposed to say…

Come the next day…do most people get up and proceed normally about their business?? No, most…

Comment by tj & the bear
2006-08-19 08:15:17

p.s.: jp, I did close italics this time!

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Comment by jp
2006-08-19 09:02:02

:) no biggie. I wish the wordpad software would force-close all tags to prevent those occurances.

 
Comment by jp
2006-08-19 09:05:06

PS: And I agree with your point

Very rarely does overvaluation correct smoothly. Overshoot is much more likely. Perhaps Auger-inn’s 1997 number is right, but that would be one helluva hangover.

 
Comment by tj & the bear
2006-08-19 09:31:53

You may find this funny, but auger-inn’s being conservative. I fully expect it to go a lot lower.

Oh, and 1997 would only be a dull headache. You gotta figure 1997 is just a little before the party started, so that is just short of equilibrium. Hangover’s WAY below that.

 
Comment by uptown
2006-08-19 11:51:46

‘97 is when I bought in Silicon Valley and was telling everybody to buy now or forget it.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Peggy
2006-08-19 04:46:33

I have got proof that the housing bubble is alive and well in small town, “flyover” America. Take a look at this house, which is currently on the market for $439,500 in a small town in south Georgia:

http://tinyurl.com/f46us

In May of 2004 this house sold for $200,000, per the county records, which are on-line beginning in 2004. Prior to that, it sold in 1999 or 2000 for somewhere around $100,000 (per local realtor).

What’s changed? The 19xx-1999 owner was an elderly couple who had lived there for years. They keep the place in good repair and made some updates to the systems but didn’t get too fancy. The 2000-2004 owner had a small business specializing in faux painting and faux stained glass. She painted and also updated the bathrooms and kitchen with new fixtures. She was rewarded for her efforts with approximately $100,000 increase in the value of the home. The current owners added a swimming pool, some landscaping (flowers and bushes, no trees or major improvements), and painted over the faux painting. Apparently they believe that their efforts are worth an additional $239,500.

How do I know all of this? My mother-in-law lives in this town (population 3879 in 2000–last census). She knows the current owners as well as the previous owners. And just in case any of you are thinking that these newest owners are a couple of Yankee carpet baggers, let me assure you that both they and the previous owner have family in this town that go back for generations. These are just small-town southern folk participating in the housing bubble.

Comment by crash1
2006-08-19 05:36:48

Peggy, I live in a small town like this, too, and the same thing has happened here. What’s changed? Nothing. No job growth, no influx of wealthy boomers, negative population growth. Everybody talks about Phoenix, Las Vegas, Florida as bubble areas, but I think it’s exactly the same in these little towns all over the country. A few people timed it right and made off like a bandit in the night though.

Comment by Peggy
2006-08-19 06:47:49

“What’s changed? Nothing.”

The truth was never stated so succinctly!

Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2006-08-19 13:31:02

No, I think one thing did change- the volume and velocity of information exchange via the web, which allowed small-town folks to quickly learn of the bubble and think, ‘Me too!’. This is the same effect that will cause it to deflate/pop more rapidly and dramatically. This knife cuts both ways. Knowledge truly is power.

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Comment by sm_landlord
2006-08-19 06:18:39

Ah, the power of HGTV and Fsck This House. No town is immune unless they have banned cable/satellite television, Blowes, Hope Depot, and bookstores :-)

Comment by Peggy
2006-08-19 09:48:28

Yep, Lowes is just a 20 mile drive, and everyone has cable. Not to mention back-fence gossip.

:-D

 
 
Comment by Chip
2006-08-19 06:54:14

That asking price is absolutely nutty for a tiny town like that. There are hundreds of towns like Metter all over the South, in most of which you can find great old homes in good condition for peanuts, relative to this listing. If this place sells anytime in the next few years, I’d be interested to know the price. It appears that there are a grand total of six SFRs for sale in Metter, from $100K up. Sorry, but I don’t think this house is part of the bubble so much as singularly, stupidly priced.

Comment by Peggy
2006-08-19 07:05:16

“If this place sells anytime in the next few years, I’d be interested to know the price.”

Well, with my insider contact you can bet I’ll know about it if the place sells. I will post the price here. And yes, you are right that there are 100s of towns like this all over the south, as well as hundreds of houses like that one. Nothing unique about it.

Comment by Chip
2006-08-19 07:18:58

Probably should have tempered my note with the possibility that the sellers think the bubble *elsewhere* will float their boat, and this may have been your point. I’m a believer that the bursting bubble will drive down prices of homes in exurban areas that tend to be commuting distance from metro areas, but I doubt that bitty-burgs like Metter will be affected one way or the other — average time on market for any home is just too long.

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Comment by Peggy
2006-08-19 07:42:23

Exactly!

 
 
 
2006-08-19 09:57:13

Take heart, in Texas in the last crunch in the 80s, houses sold BELOW cost. Contruction halted all together. No one would build because the place would be worth less than the materials to build it.

Now that is a really housing bust…

When taking raw materials and forming it into the shape of a house causes it to be worth LESS.

Comment by Chip
2006-08-19 10:55:35

I have a friend who bought there during that bust. He got a huge house for a song –could hardly believe it, at the time. He said that people were just walking away and leaving the keys.

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Comment by Sarah in DC
2006-08-19 04:51:55

Saw this in the WaPo this morning:
“Insurers Urge Action on Risky Loans”
Well, finally!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/18/AR2006081801032.html

Comment by arlingtonva
2006-08-19 04:59:43

We are deeply concerned about the potential contagion effect from poorly underwritten or unsuitable mortgages and home equity loans,” Suzanne C. Hutchinson, executive vice president of the Mortgage Insurance Companies of America

It’s August 2006 and she’s full of it. She should have been saying this in a letter to regulators in early 2004. But then if regulators acted on it, that would have slowed the revenue to clients of Mortgage Insurance Companies of America.

I see this as cover your a@# move to pave the way for a tax payer bail out.

Comment by sm_landlord
2006-08-19 06:28:32

“Oh, please don’t fling me into that Briar Patch, Br’er Fox!”

The big operators *love* regulation, as long as they get to write it. It keep the small operators from stealing their lunch.

Comment by Sunsetbeachguy
2006-08-19 07:50:31

The only things a businessperson wants from the government is a reasonable advantage over the competition.

1950’s midwestern congressman

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Comment by mort_fin
2006-08-19 09:02:06

I think Suzanne (no, not THAT Suzanne) was saying this in 2004. And if the regulators had acted on it it would have INCREASED the business going to MICA members. Most of this stuff is being done with 80/10, 80/15, 80/20 piggyback loans. The MI Companies have refused to do this riskier business for the offered compensation, and have steadily lost market share. Whether that’s because they’re smarter, they’re (state) regulated while their hedge fund competitors are unregulated, or because they are tax disadvantaged I don’t know. Just because it’s in their interest to sound the alarm does not, of course, mean that the alarm is a false one.

 
 
 
Comment by Russ Winter
Comment by Chip
2006-08-19 06:56:39

Russ — requires an account, to get in. Synopsis?

Comment by Russ Winter
Comment by sigalarm
2006-08-19 09:35:40

Russ

I am really glad you post these links here. I must admit though, that when I read your articles, they seem to be trying to convey some important and well thought out informaiton. However, I am a software engineer by trade and I fear I lack the knowledge and vocabulary to correctly understand what you are trying to say. I assume that the realm of thought that you work in is no different than any other discipline (such as mine) they all contain a great deal of “embedded” terms that unless you know what they mean you can get quickly lost in any meaningful topic discussion.

Is there any primer for your field of knowledge? I feel like there are things over there I would benefit from knowing, but I get lost in the language and references.

Thanks!

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Comment by Russ Winter
2006-08-19 15:16:24

I realize that to start reading my blogs is a bit like tuning in to start watching the fifth season of the Sopranos and start watching. I use “colorful” terms (like Brazil America, Pinocchio theory, Riskloves, Pig Men, Bullies) that are sort of self -explanatory in context of how they are used. In fact in various place in the blog you will see these more clearly defined. However, taking your suggestion, I feel I should do a specific blog, that deals with my own blog language, and links to earlier blogs that give the reader a definition.

As far as more standard embedded financial terms, I am trying to write for a sophisticated audience. I get regular e mail that in effect, tells me that once the reader picks up the langauge, it has made it a far richer read. In fact, I don’t want to be an easy, casual dilettante read. Still I think you will find my language defined in the internet public domain, including dictonaries like Wikipedia. In fact this might be good opportunity for layman wishing to expand their financial term understanding to invest a little time and effort in it?

 
Comment by MS
2006-08-20 07:55:56

I found you language obscure and the post verbose. glad you have your fans, I didn’t bookmark it ’cause I don’t have the time to figure out your rhyming riddles.

 
Comment by Pasadena Renter
2006-08-20 07:58:51

Russ,
I love your posts. At the beginning your language was difficult to follow (your own terms, some technical words, references to previous threads), but I got used to it. Thanks.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by suffrincats
2006-08-19 06:01:56

WSJ - Loudoun County VA down 10-15%, not 2.5% as reported by realtors

Housing
Measuring the Cracks in the Foundation
By MARK WHITEHOUSE
August 19, 2006; Page A2

Economists looking for evidence of a hard landing in the housing market will be watching closely next week when the National Association of Realtors releases its latest data on existing-home sales and prices.

Some think there is a chance the report will show the median price of a single-family home declined in July when compared with a year earlier. If so, that would be the first time prices have fallen in more than a decade.

Economic data often defy the forecasters, and monthly housing data are notoriously volatile. But whether the data show a decline or not, many people trying to sell their homes probably already have felt one. That is because the official numbers tend to be rosier than reality, particularly at turning points like the present.

For much of the past year, economists have been engaged in a slow-motion debate over where the housing market is headed. Most still predict a soft landing, in which sales would decline and prices would stall, but only enough to take a small bite out of economic growth. Lately, though, worries have mounted amid indications that the landing could be harder.

Last week, for example, the National Association of Home Builders reported that its index of new, single-family-home sales fell to a 15-year low. The previous week, luxury-home builder Toll Brothers Inc. said orders were down 47% in the three months ending July 31 from a year earlier. Chief Executive Robert Toll said he had never seen such a sharp downturn in an otherwise healthy economy.

For the most part, economists expect next week’s housing reports, which include fresh July data from the Census Bureau on new homes, to confirm the downward trend they already see. But fresh data on median prices — particularly for existing single-family homes, which make up most of the market — could raise some eyebrows. So far this year, price gains have shown a sharp deceleration: In June, they were up only 1.09% from a year earlier, compared with 12.61% in January. Should prices actually fall in July, that will be a telling sign that housing could be in for the kind of sustained decline in prices that could weigh heavily on consumers’ moods and finances.

Moreover, there is some reason to believe the reality is even harsher than the numbers reflect. That is because when home sales begin to slow, sellers offer incentives that the official prices don’t reflect, such as help in paying buyers’ closing or moving costs. Also, as sales volumes in the worst local markets decline, a larger share of the recorded sales tend to come from markets that are still doing relatively well — a factor that can skew official prices upward.

The difference can be significant. Thomas Lawler, an economist and former vice president at Fannie Mae who has studied prices near his home in Loudoun County, Va., estimates that the average price of similar homes in July — accounting for concessions — was down 10% to 15% from a year earlier. The local realtors’ organization, he says, reported only a 2.5% drop.

“There are a lot of people who would love to be able to sell their homes at last year’s price,” he says. “But they can’t.”

Comment by John Fontain
2006-08-19 10:52:11

My friend lives in Leesburg (in Loudoun Co.) and keeps me updated from time to time on SFH prices in his neighborhood. They are down from about $820k last year at this time to $720k today. That is in line with Lawler’s estimate. About 1 in every 10 houses is for sale in the neighborhood. The only way to find a buyer in those conditions is to continue to chop away at your asking price. It ain’t going to end pretty out there.

I believe prices for these houses will return to 2002 levels (at a minimum), which were around $400k. Even at that level, it would still be more expensive to own than to rent. Yikes!!

 
Comment by crash1
2006-08-20 06:39:45

Chief Executive Robert Toll said he had never seen such a sharp downturn in an otherwise healthy economy.

Maybe the economy isn’t as healthy as the gov wants you to believe.

Comment by MS
2006-08-20 08:00:57

Is the economy ever healthy? Our environment has been ransacked and is getting worse. Isn’t it a fairly tale that the economy of man is a “healthy thing?”

 
 
 
Comment by waitinginpa
2006-08-19 06:26:10

Hi everyone. I am a long time lurker that has enjoyed the lively discussions and all the great reporting. THANK YOU BEN for this wonderful website.

I have a question for experienced landlords/renters. When we moved to PA, we took a townhouse in a community that catered to executive housing. It now resembles section 8 housing and has become unbearable. We are trying to find a single family to rent, and I was wondering what I should look for and what clauses I should try to get into the lease. Also, any ideas as to where to find listings (beyond mls and paper) would be appreciated.

Thanks so much.

Comment by txchick57
2006-08-19 06:35:28

Rentclicks.com and Craigslist. Just know that on both, people try to overprice and your job is to negotiate them down.

2006-08-19 09:59:53

And if Ben was a little more greedy, and a lot more caught up in “Web 2.0″ — he’d have a hell of head start making a renters website.

 
 
Comment by sm_landlord
2006-08-19 06:45:28

In general, avoid anything like “executive housing” - it’s usually bad news;
overpriced, undermaintained, and catering to very short-term stays.

Try to find a rental listing service that is free to landlords, but charges the prospective tenant a small fee. Unless you are in small town, you should be able to find such a service. This minimizes costs and conflicts of interest. Use the ‘Net, Luke!

The clauses you want in the lease depend on your situation to some extent, but as a tenant you want a well-defined maintenance agreement if you can get one.

Comment by waitinginpa
2006-08-19 07:05:34

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately, RentClicks did not show much for the area we are in. (Outside of Phildaelphia, but trying to stay in the closer suburbs.) I’ll keep searching.

I want to make sure that we avoid flippers and people that might declare bankruptcy.

I imagine that we will want at least a years lease, but after that I want to be able to get out if we find a house that is “properly” priced.

Comment by Chip
2006-08-19 07:43:35

WaitinginPA — “…I want to be able to get out [of the lease] if we find a house that is “properly” priced.”

My strategy may not work for you but, FWIW: I am renting a very nice place for $2K/mo., having cashed out in 2005. I look at it as having, at most, $20,000 skin in the game. That’s because I would not renew for a full year if I were very close to buying; if I were to find a bargain soon after renewing my annual lease, I’d still have 30 days to close so my maximum exposure to lost rent is 10 months, for all practical purposes. And that assumes the landlord would not try to mitigate my loss and would just keep the unit vacant.

So I’m at risk $20,000. But I am in the market for a house in the $300-400K range, which I don’t think is an exorbitant buy range for someone paying $2K rent today. So my skin in the game amounts to only 5-6% of the buying price, IF I find a buy very early in the year’s lease. As each month goes by, the skin is amortized further.

Personally, I think it is entirely reasonable to expect that, as the housing market reaches full-crash mode, I will be able to save an extra 5-6% by lowballing enough suitable properties. Meanwhile, I have a very nice roof over my head. I am comfortable that renting more or less indefinitely at this point in time (relative to the bust, and having nothing that I want to offer on at lease-signing time) is a great return vs. risk strategy. Had I been ready to make an offer when I renewed my lease, I could easily have let it become month-to-month.

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Comment by DC_Too
2006-08-19 11:16:32

I would look in Craigslist for Philadelphia and just ask around. Finding a nice place to live at a fair price takes some work, regardless of where you are.

Keep in mind the rules are different from locality to locality, but, in general:

1) A rental lease will bind any future property owner. That means a bankrupt flipper can lose the house in foreclosure, but the bank is stuck with you, the tenant. You would probably get formal notice on where the rent should go.

2) If you “find a deal” to buy, and bail out on a rental lease, the landlord has to be able to demonstrate that he performed due diligence in getting a new tenant before you can get stuck paying for the balance of the rental agreement. In other words, the burden of proof lies with the landlord in that he couldn’t find a new tenant. Nor can he rent the house back out and stick you with the balance of the rent under your lease.

It is very poorly understood that, in the short term, all financial risk lies with the landlord in a rental situation. I’ve never figured out why I’m “throwing money down the drain” when I rent but “being shrewd” if I spend tens of thousands on unrecoverable administrative fees to purchase, and then get stuck paying off some colossal mortgage. Go figure.

Oh, in most places, too, your landlord will be required to pay interest to you on any security deposit funds you put up. Is that true with a house downpayment? Hmm…..

 
 
 
 
Comment by troubleinDC
2006-08-20 07:41:59

The difference between renting an apartment vs. renting a SFH is that, with the later, the landlord will typically stipulate in the lease that you cover the maintenaince on the appliances (washer/dryer, etc..) and furnace and that you be held fully responsible if they fail due to your neglect (e.g., not cleaning the coils on the refrigerator, etc…). You can try to negotiate on this but I wouldn’t expect that you would win much in the way of any concessions. So, that is typical and you just want to check the condition of the appliances when you move in and understand that the (small?) risk of having to pay for repairs or replacement is one of the hidden costs.

 
 
Comment by Russ Winter
2006-08-19 06:59:24

Friday, August 18, 2006
Countrywide Home Loans Letter to Borrowers

Excerpt from the Baltimore Sun: Interest-only loans may start cheap, ‘reset’ scary

To head off potential problems, the largest mortgage originator in the United States, Countrywide Home Loans, quietly has begun sending out letters to thousands of borrowers who have been making only the minimum payments on the company’s popular “PayOption” adjustable-rate mortgages.

The letters explain that “this is an early message to alert you that, based on your current payment trends and potential future interest rate changes, the monthly payment you will be required to pay may increase significantly.”

A model letter provided to me by Countrywide includes this hypothetical example of what could be ahead for a California homeowner currently making only minimum payments monthly on a $402,000 loan.

The current full interest rate on the loan is 7.6 percent, but the borrower has been paying just $1,348.47, far less than what’s needed to fully amortize the mortgage over its 30-year term.

If the loan reset at today’s rates, the letter explains, the full payment required would be $2,887.50 - more than double what the homeowner has gotten used to paying. Future reset rates could be even steeper, making the potential payment crunch much worse.

My comments:

These neg am IO loans have a clause that requires a reset to regular amortization once the loan principal hits a percentage of the initial mortgage. Typically it is 110% or 115%. So in the example mentioned of the 402k mortgage, neg aming at $1,540 a month, the 110% mark would trigger after 26 months. It would then revert to a regular mortgage with about 28 years left. Assuming the rate of 7.6% still stands, the new payment (on 442k) would be $3,181 a month, requiring the neg amer to fork over an extra $1,832 a month, or about 22K a year.
http://www.amo-mortgage.com/amortization.html

Comment by boulderbo
2006-08-19 08:16:15

one addition, the monthly index is based on a twelve month average, so the fully indexed rate will continue to rise for at least another year. further, most of these option arms were originated by brokers, who were compensated by countrywide for increasing the prepayment penalty and the margin on the loan. originate the option arm with the broker making no yield spread, the borrower has a margin of 2.25% over libor, cofi, codi, etc. and no prepay. when the broker made 3.75 points in yield spread the prepayment went out to 36 months and the margin went up to 375-425 basis points above the index. basically the borrower has been paying and will continue to pay 2.00% more on their loan to compensate the broker. ugly, gonna be alot of law suits on this one, imho.

 
Comment by OCBear
2006-08-20 07:45:30

Just to clarify….the Lender is sending out letter’s to their borrower’s to advise them of the terms on the contract they already signed. They should already know the terms, they signed the damn thing.
I hate stupid people, the government has empowered them to screw things up forthe rest of us:(

OCBear

Comment by Sunsetbeachguy
2006-08-20 08:01:22

and they are stealing my oxygen.

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2006-08-19 07:02:06

August 19 (UPI) - Skilled cult deprogramer Ben Jones today arrived outside the fortified compound where members of the SDCIA doomsday cult were holed up making final preparations for what can only be described as mass financial suicide. Reports from inside the compound say that Cult Leader Gary Watts is growing increasingly desperate and hysterical, leading his Flipper minions in round-the-clock chants of “Real Estate only goes up!” and “12% is in the bag!”

While most of the empty-eyed SDCIA cultists are still clinging to their delusions, a growing number are starting to feel a palpable sense of unease, thanks to devastating forays into their camp by TxChick57 and other Housing Bears. Their feeble attempts to stage counter-strikes against the Ben Jones partisans have quickly collapsed as Sammy Schadenfreude and his intrepid Housing Bear brothers-in-arms (females included) have swooped down to club them like baby seals. Several “it’s different here” bubble stalwarts like LV Landlord have tried to make a stand, only to ooze away under a barrage of bad news as their soap-bubble dreams of easy money come to a Hindenburg-like end.

More and more disillusioned, fearful Flippers are slipping past grim-faced minders like Suzanne, ignoring her proffered Kool-Aid, breaking ranks with the lemmings and rushing to unload their “alligators” before the onrushing crash. Some have even defected to Ben’s Housing Bubble Blog, embracing their new creed with the zeal of “born-again” neophytes.

More on this fast-breaking story as it develops….

Comment by txchick57
2006-08-19 07:04:43

Looks like you’ve got your own freak (the Jeanbenet killer) coming back home soon. Maybe the FB’ers who have houses near the courthouse can make some temporary coin renting out their front yards to Geraldo and the other TV vultures.

Comment by tj & the bear
2006-08-19 07:48:16

txchick57,

OT, but what books would you recommend on trading / investing in general?

Comment by txchick57
2006-08-19 08:03:16

Ishmael

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Comment by tj & the bear
2006-08-19 08:58:57

Philosophically I’m already with you… it’s the rest I’m curious about.

 
Comment by Sunsetbeachguy
2006-08-20 08:08:16

I am right there.

My brother used to build earthships.

Humans are nearing the end of our run. America’s slide from prominence that is beginning now is just the beginning.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Peter Gerard
2006-08-19 07:25:35

Good Morning to all. As a heads up, there is a very good article in this weeks Barron’s. It is on page 33 and is titled “The No-Money-Down Disaster.” Very readable and some shocking numbers. Enjoy.

Comment by mort_fin
2006-08-19 11:22:23

for those of us who don’t get Barrons could you pass on a short synopsis?

Comment by sm_landlord
2006-08-19 11:37:43

From Barrons

The No-Money-Down Disaster
By LON WITTER

Some money quotes:

“Extrapolating housing prices from their current level based on wages and inflation is like saying a $100 Internet stock with no cash flow and negative earnings will rise as long as it is able to narrow the loss. The analysis ignores the fact that the stock never should have been trading at $100 in the first place.”

“By any traditional valuation, housing prices at the end of 2005 were 30% to 50% too high. Others have pointed this out, but few have had the nerve to state the obvious: Even if wages and GDP grow, the national median price of housing will probably fall by close to 30% in the next three years. That’s simple reversion to the mean.”

He quotes these numbers:

“32.6% of new mortgages and home-equity loans in 2005 were interest only, up from 0.6% in 2000.
43% of first-time home buyers in 2005 put no money down.
15.2% of 2005 buyers owe at least 10% more than their home is worth.
10% of all home owners with mortgages have no equity in their homes.
$2.7 trillion dollars in loans will adjust to higher rates in 2006 and 2007.”

And ends with:
“What happens after the decline depends on our financial policies. When Japan went through a similar situation in the early 1990s, the right advice was clear: Bite the bullet and get the bad loans off the books. Eventually the Japanese acted, but it took them 15 years of trying everything else first.”

“If we have the courage to take the right medicine right away, the effect of a market collapse could be very sharp and painful, but relatively short-lived. If, like Japan, we fail to act, the coming decade could be very bleak indeed.”

Comment by seattle price drop
2006-08-19 17:26:22

Thank God.

A fairly widely read publicaion suggesting that we’ll be better off biting the bullet and letting this mess fall apart/clear quickly than a slow tightening of the screws over the next decade.

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Comment by Peter Gerard
2006-08-19 11:49:42

It is basically an article about the risk of of adjustable rate mortgages and how it will affect the economy. Some points made:

32.6% of new mortgages and home equity loans in 2005 were interest only, up from 0.6% in 2000.

43% of first-time home buyers in 2005 put no money down.

15.2% of 2005 home buyers owe at least 10% more than their homes are worth.

10% of all home owners with mortgages have no equity in their homes.

$2.7 trillion dollars in loans will adjust to higher rates in 2006 and 2007.

The article goes on to talk about neg am loans effects on banks as they are allowed to book them as earnings. What happens when they become non-performing loans is not pretty.

Comment by mort_fin
2006-08-19 12:14:49

thanks to both of you.

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Comment by Sunsetbeachguy
2006-08-20 08:10:36

Thanks

 
 
Comment by peter m
2006-08-20 20:29:27

I wonder if this article will be picked up in any of my 1/2 dozen Contrarian financial/RE/economic favorites sites such as Prudent Bear,Mish, Russ winter, ect. I will hunt it down. do not want to register with Barrons as i have too much financial newsletters already. Very sobering concise summation of the upcoming financial crunch which many recent borrowers will face in late 2006-2007. Should be reprinted by all major Newspapers, but fat chance it will receive MSM coverage. Thank you for this Gem.

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Comment by txchick57
Comment by jp
2006-08-19 11:10:44

Hilarious! I hope the resume owner found a nice shrink though.

 
 
Comment by Bubbly in the South Bay
2006-08-19 08:24:33

Reverse mortgages will probably be the next “scandal” in a few years, a few years too later I’m sure.

LA Times
“The sign over the back door, “Bless this mess,” doesn’t adequately convey what waits inside: floors caked with animal excrement, waist-high piles of junk, the stiffened corpse of a cat — and a teary-eyed woman whose life has spun out of control.

On Thursday, volunteers wearing breathing masks began cleaning out the single-story Garden Grove home to help owner Anne Francis avoid foreclosure and eviction.
Francis, 70, a former interior decorator, said she was embarrassed by the massive amount of clutter she has accumulated over the years. “I know it’s like a sickness,” she said. “I guess when your life is empty with one thing, you fill it with something else.”

Francis’ situation has tugged the heartstrings of a Bakersfield reverse-mortgage processor and a publicist from a Vancouver, Canada-based, junk-removal company.

“She needs help,” said Tina Wilson, the Network Source Funding mortgage agent whose usual professional detachment crumbled when she worked on Francis’ case. “This is something I can’t walk away from.”

Wilson teamed up with Katie Dunsworth of 1-800-Got-Junk, which donated junk-removal services for Francis and tried to drum up media interest in the story.

But their efforts might not save the day.

The home recently went into foreclosure after Francis failed to keep up with the mortgage payments. She applied for a reverse mortgage, hoping it would enable her to pay off the house and leave enough for her living expenses.”

 
Comment by Chrisinpnw
2006-08-19 08:30:14

More & more general financial blogs are starting to “get it” on real estate.

http://www.seeingtheforest.com/archives/2006/08/todays_housing_34.htm

 
Comment by MTHood
2006-08-19 08:38:37

A little ruckus has erupted over at Lew Breeze’s San Diego condo blog (92101.blogspot.com). Quite humorous.

Comment by txchick57
2006-08-19 09:12:35

Jeez, some of those people over there are nauseating.

 
 
Comment by rca
2006-08-19 09:36:30

Posted on Sat, Aug. 19, 2006

INSURANCE
Residents dreading insurers’ letters
As the insurance crisis deepens, policy cancellations and sharply higher premiums have South Florida homeowners reeling.
BY BEATRICE E. GARCIA
bgarcia@MiamiHerald.com

Many South Florida homeowners are approaching their mailboxes with dread these days, anticipating a notice from their insurance company. Such a letter can only be bad news — either a massive rate increase or worse yet, a policy cancellation.

For some consumers, like Jill Puppilo of Davie, it’s both.

First Protective Insurance canceled the fourth-grade teacher’s homeowners policy soon after repairs from Hurricane Wilma were completed.

Finding no other willing insurer, she landed with Citizens Property Insurance, the state-run pool. Her premium is now nearly $7,500 — about three times what she had paid last year.

”When I first heard the new premium, I got tears in my eyes. Now I’m resigned to it,” Puppilo says.

As insurance companies continue to reduce exposure in this hurricane-prone state, more than a dozen are notifying homeowners that their policies will be canceled at renewal time.

”Companies are getting rid of anything that’s borderline,” says Dulce Suarez-Resnick, an agent with HBA Insurance in Miami.

That means insurers are bailing on older homes or coastal properties. Sometimes, they are just reducing policies in a certain region.

Companies quietly cutting back in recent weeks include Florida Family, Universal Property & Casualty, Clarendon Insurance, Liberty Mutual, and Vanguard Fire & Casualty.

Meanwhile, the Florida units of State Farm, Nationwide and Allstate have been trimming nearly 200,000 policies from their books.

”Some companies have too much exposure in Florida. If we’re going to have more hurricanes, then they have to balance the needs of policyholders against their financial health,” says William Stander, government affairs representative for the Property Casualty Insurers Association of America.

One of those is Tower Hill, which is cutting about 20 percent of its agents throughout the state as it pares policies. It now has some 700 agents statewide, with nearly 250,000 policies in force.

Donald Matz, Tower Hill Insurance Group’s president, says the company’s action is driven by the higher cost of reinsurance — that’s insurance that insurers buy to help cover catastrophic losses — and premium rates that could still be too low to cover losses the company expects.

Also, one rate hike for Tower Hill has already been approved, and the company has requested a second one to cover higher reinsurance costs. The two add up to a nearly 50 percent increase for homeowners in some parts of the state, Matz says.

As private companies drop policies, the state’s insurer of last resort continues to swell. Already the largest insurer of homes, condos, apartments and mobile homes in Florida, Citizens is the only option for many homeowners receiving nonrenewal notices.

Citizens now has 1.2 million policies. On July 1, it took on more than 300,000 policies from the three now-defunct Poe Financial Group firms.

Citizens is ”becoming the greatest gift to the insurance industry,” says State Rep. Dan Gelber, D-Miami Beach. “Insurers can walk away from any policy they believe will present the slightest risk. They can get rid of the lemons and keep all the cherries.”

Agents and company officials say the homeowners insurance market tightened considerably as hurricane season got under way. Only a handful of private insurers are writing new policies, but far fewer than before. For instance, Travelers is allowing each agent in Miami-Dade County to write two policies per quarter. Until July 1, it was writing about four to five policies per agent each month.

Florida Family and Universal of North America stopped writing wind coverage after July 1.

Joan Hernandez of Homestead was distressed when the bill from her home insurer, United Property & Casualty, hit her mailbox. The new premium was $11,529; last year’s was $3,795.

So she got an inspection done and received discounts for her roof and shutters. She also opted for higher deductibles and reduced or eliminated other coverages, such as for her screen enclosure.

Her revised premium will be closer to $7,000, but that’s still almost double. ”If it keeps going like this, we will have no choice but to go without insurance,” she says.

Norvell A. S. Holyfield of Northwest Dade is paying her $4,502 premium in several installments. She’s considering borrowing from a long-term healthcare policy for the next payment. Two years ago, her premium was $900.

”The money you’ve set aside for your retirement you’ll have to use today just to keep what you have now,” Holyfield says.

Comment by P'cola Popper
2006-08-19 11:16:37

Regardless of the your take on the housing bubble, stay away from Florida real estate until the insurance crisis has worked its way through the system. The whole State is radioactive.

 
Comment by Chip
2006-08-19 11:24:10

Reminds me of a point I wanted to make a while back. Floridians act like there is a single component of their premium increases: the increased probability of loss due to hurricanes. But what I’ve never seen mentioned is the portion of that premium that is solely to cover the increased cost of the replacement structure. They enjoy the increased value of their home, yet don’t readily grasp that it also now costs more to re-build. That said, the increase in replacement costsis often not proportional to the increase of the overall property value, since a great part of the run-up is the (temporarily?) increased value of the land.

Comment by peter m
2006-08-20 20:49:23

I live in Scal, so my situation is not exactly analogous to Florida but my Insurer(Farmers) keeps raising rates every year. Latest increase was a $100 jump from last year. I raised my deductible to $2500 so got it back down a bit. You are correct, rebuilding costs are main factor in constantly rising premiums.

 
 
 
Comment by sm_landlord
2006-08-19 10:31:27

From Craigslist:

$11000 / 4br - Sunny Architectural Show Piece in Santa Monica
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/apa/193945337.html

This beauty is located near the takeoff end of the airport runway for maximum comfort.

What else can I say, except: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 
Comment by Mike
2006-08-19 10:37:09

People just don’t get it do they! Wake UP! This housing bubble was “created” for a reason. Duh! Follow the clues, folks. Company pensions going the way of the do-do bird. Medicare struggling and on the verge of collapse. Baby boomers heading into retirement years and living longer which will be a drain on the social security system. A national debt going forward for so many years it boggles the mind. That means government entitlement spending cuts JUST to tread water. Okay, have you soaked all that in. Move over to “column 2″. Government, Fed, Banks, Greenspan. A very untrustworthy and sneaky group to say the least. What did this group offer? Free money for anyone who has a pulse and can sign “x” on the loan application. Okay. Mmmmm. What’s in it for them (KEY QUESTION HERE!)Move over to “column 3″. Are you following the clues so far? In just 5 short years, a property worth $150,000 shoots up to $550,000 after a quick coat of paint and some slick paperwork drawn up by a realtor and his/her pet appraiser. Notice that it’s mostly in the highly populated areas like New York, SF, Los Angeles, Chicago, etc. These are the money centers. Now follow the housing bubble “tracks”. A bubble which has far exceeded the tech boom and bust around 2000 and is the greatest property valuation boom on record. We must go back to “column 1″. That $150,000 property which has now arrived at the peak (as the boom turns to leak) at $550,000, will start to track back down. It WILL NOT go straight down. Greater, unsophisticated, fools will appear and buy and get stuck as resistance is hit, then previous support (price) is broken. Will it go back to $150,000? No, it will not. If anyone thinks they will be buying property for 10 cents on the dollar, I suggest you get a sample of your tap water checked out. Where will it track back to? Probably to it’s value in 2003/4 over a period of time if you ignore the (fake) dips. Price around 2008? About $300/350,000. In places like Florida it could be worse but I’m not sure. Still more than double it’s 2000 price. End result? For boomers who own property, more than enough to help pay for those expensive medical costs they are going to need and which the insurance companies are going to LIMIT and also to suppliment their “means (to be introduced) tested” social security pensions. You can guarantee the government, fed, banks, aided and abetted by Greenspan fed all the numbers into a possible final outcome. Like generals who calculate odds before a battle, they even included a casualty percentage (say 20%) of those dead beat borrowers who will walk when they see it’s cheaper to rent when their cheap loans reset (soon). End result………..it work out for the government, fed, banks (who will be helped if a bail-out is needed) and Greenspan doesn’t give a s*it. He’s gone. Need an expensive medical option? Need to suppliment that lower social security pension? REVERSE MORTGAGES. Oh, btw, just to add some more happy news, we are heading into a recession. Just don’t know how long or how deep…

Comment by manhattanite
2006-08-19 11:06:48

i found your post and your theory to be quite fascinating. i think it deserves a more dispassionate exposition, though. i think there’s a good case to be made that greenspan and the fed were acting quite rationally, given the national and international economic and political constraints of how the game of modern complex capitalism is played. but there’s probably a lot to be said for the argument that this bubble was engineered to ‘transfer’ boomers’ escalating costs — back to the boomers, though at some cost to all the GFs and FBs who get eaten up in the process.

Comment by DC_Too
2006-08-19 11:31:38

They were acting “quite rationally” to the implosion of the stock market, by “adding liquidity” to the economy. All of those guys are academic politicians, in a sense.

I think the truth is a lot murkier. First of all, central banks can and do control the money supply, but they have no control over where they money goes when they “open the spigot.” The housing bubble is not Greenspan’s “fault.” It is our fault. We used the easy money to buy houses, that’s all.

That everything that happens anywhere is some sort of Washington conspiracy is completely ridiculous anyway. Those who hold political power are a lot less powerful and a lot less bright than almost anyone really grasps. Rant over.

Comment by UtterDisaster
2006-08-20 06:09:09

I agree. In my experience, the people who come up with government conspiracy theories have never lived in DC.

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Comment by txchick57
2006-08-21 02:11:17

lol

 
 
Comment by kipper
2006-08-20 07:40:28

Who wrote “Never attribute to evil what can easily be explained by ignorance and stupidity.”?

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Comment by Sunsetbeachguy
2006-08-20 08:16:47

Napolean Bonaparte (sp?)

 
Comment by foz
2006-08-20 08:23:28

“Never attribute to Evil that which you can chalk up to incompetence.” Harlan Ellison

 
Comment by Paul in Jax
2006-08-20 16:59:37

Exactly - and it’s all just a particular example of Occam’s Razor. Conspiracy theorists (blamemeisters) share one or both of two traits: young, uneducated.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Jannifl
2006-08-19 11:47:12

The fed meeting minutes are sealed for I think 5 years and then they are made public. It will be interesting, if Ben writes a book for him to post the minutes along with comments from this blog. I think about a year ago, a blogger here posted the minutes from 1999 before the stock market crash and in the minutes they were chucklingly discussing about how a lot of people were going to lose a lot of reitrement money.

 
Comment by tj & the bear
2006-08-19 12:59:35

Will it go back to $150,000? No, it will not.

No, it’ll go to $100K, if not even lower. The government could put the other 50% of the working population on the government payroll, double everyone’s salary… and it would still go down.

Your flawed premise is that just because these people are smart that they somehow have a plan that will succeed regardless of the circumstances. Well, that worked just out just peachy for LTCM, Enron, etc., didn’t it??

Comment by tj & the bear
2006-08-19 13:19:16

Damn… screwed up again.

Meant to say “Well, that worked out just peachy for…”

 
Comment by nhz
2006-08-20 06:42:12

I don’t think it is realistic to expect reversion to the mean (plus some overshoot). In Europe there are several countries where house price appreciation is now around +1000% (and still increasing) when measured from the start of the current bubble around 1990-1995. With official inflation around 2% yoy, reversion to the mean would require a 85% decline in home prices, that’s without the usual overshoot. I’m sure this would bring an end to the financial/political system as we know it as the countries with those huge appreciation numbers (e.g. UK and Netherlands) are drowned in personal debt.

Part of the problem with the ‘mean reversion’ is that inflation is far higher than government numbers say, probably 7-10% both in the US and Europe. It’s just the average wages that are lagging (not the high level management/politics wages, those haven been surging in Europe at double digit rates along with the housing/credit bubble - probably just like in the US).

Comment by kipper
2006-08-20 07:34:38

What is the affordablility level there? In Cali it is all of %11.

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Comment by tj & the bear
2006-08-20 22:34:50

Hi nhz,

Gotta disagree. Just because the prices have risen farther and for a longer period doesn’t mean the laws of physics have been denied, just delayed. Ultimately common prices have to reflect the means of the common man (or woman).

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Comment by Mark
2006-08-19 15:42:32

Banks and the gov’t try hard to appear in control, but in reality they are only guessing what to do and have little to no control. Not just in “managing” the economy like the USSR tried, but also militarily, as in the feckless adventure in the Middle East.

The state is about to explode and collapse. Thankfully.

 
Comment by kipper
2006-08-20 07:38:10

You forgot to mention the property taxes. With prop 13, I pay $1,200.00 per year while my new neighbor is paying around $6,000.00. That is quite a boon for the state.

Comment by MS
2006-08-20 08:19:46

that’s why I think the “housing bubble” is a positive thing! In minneapolis, a computer automatically estimates the value of your house every year (as I understand it). so, without any legislation, housing assessments have doubled or more… which brings in a lot more dough. So, if the property taxes are raised from 1% to %1.1, because of the housing bubble, which raised housing values, the tax actually went from 1% to 2.2% or higher.

 
 
Comment by wondering
2006-08-20 08:43:58

Mike,

I agree with alot of what you have to say. But, do you really think there are enough foreign investors (with CASH!) that are going to buy up the glut of condos/townhomes/SFH in the US and then hold them for years w/o any real returns?

 
 
Comment by cactus
2006-08-19 11:39:15

Any opinion on REITS? Think they will suffer with the RE down turn or hold up as more people chose to rent?

Comment by sm_landlord
2006-08-19 12:36:12

Depends on the REIT.

If it owns homebuilders, look out.
If it owns apartments, probably OK for a while
If it owns commercial, depends on consumer and/or corporate spending.

You need to read the list of holdings, and evaluate the manager and the market.

 
 
Comment by Mike
2006-08-19 14:51:20

The United States is bankrupt. End of that rant. Mr. Washington Hack Greenspan managed that, aided by a president who’s only claim to business fame before being elected to office, was to sell a sports team (put into the deal by his rich daddie’s pals) and a oil affiliated company he bankrupted. His success in business and financial management prior to being elected = ZIP + Nada + Zero. About the same level has his military experience…..but he salutes well. He’s has since dragged the US economy into the gutter (We were told bringing freedom and democracy to Iraq will cost around $2 billion. We are now passing $300 billion and could hit 1 trillion by the time we end up deciding we will join the list of others who tried to occupy these middle east countries and get out). The US is surviving financially because of 3 items. Foreign money. Money the Fed prints like confetti, working on the assumption that the rest of the world will still have faith in the US system. A faith which appears to be fading under Bush very, very, very fast by the day - and a pumped up credit system which is so bloated and stinks so much it looks like a 5 day old dead pig which has been left in the desert sun. The US needs that foreign money to keep pouring in and in order to do that it needs to offer a good return. BTW, brain washed America, we are no longer the financial “world’s superpower” OR the world’s “military superpower”. China is looking at us in their rear view mirrors as they drive the cars they are starting to make and which will probably replace Ford and GM or at least relegate them to a “also ran” who get their income from the military or the police departments or state and fed agencies. Here’s a little info which those purveyors of selective news doesn’t give you on tv. If you think GM and Ford are struggling now, how would they be doing if all the military, state agencies, etc, decided to buy vehicles like Toyota or Nissan? Back to China. China is the country doing oil deals around the world with countries Bush picked fights with (like Venezula) and China ain’t gonna like it if the phoney Rhode Island Cowboy starts giving those countries a problem. How can I put it….Oh, yes. We have NO credibility left and other countries want to distance themselves from the US. For instance, our best ally is the UK. They have stayed with us while others faded away but (because of Bush) a recent poll showed that 80% of the Brits want to break with the US and conduct the war on terror in their own way because they have lost faith in US competence. In a war situation, I would put China’s military way ahead of ours. They don’t owe us money - we owe THEM money. A LOT of money. Maybe if American’s stopped listening to the flag wavers on t/v and did some of their own thinking and observing instead of letting a few overpaid celebrity anchors think and observe for them, they might start to work out what’s true and what isn’t. As far as property prices are concerned, you WILL NOT see property for 10 cents on the dollar. Ever. There are millions of foreigners who come from countries which have not become another “modern Rome” like the US who have real cash they have SAVED, who will sweep in and buy up property long before it reaches 10 cents on the dollar. As for the opening of the money spigot. Consult any financial chart. Market sank - property went up. Almost in unison. The Fed knows where the money is going when they open the free money spigot. It certainly wasn’t going to go into a tanking stock market. With the banks screaming “Mortgages for 1%!!!” it doesn’t take a genius to see in which direction the Fed is herding the sheep. And it isn’t to let them borrow large amounts so they can buy 2 tons of cookies. When Joe Sixpack hears that the bankruptcy he has on his credit record along with the two vehicle repo’s he has and a none payment of a medical bill doesn’t mean anything if he wants a mortgage - what do you think he’s going to do? And when he sees those bank rates re-set and the property taxes, water bills, etc, are twice as much as they were 2 years ago and there’s a nice little apartment for rent at $300 a month less just down the road….what do you think he’s gonna do. I’ve worked in finance for years and I can tell you one thing for certain. 90% of those who didn’t handle their finances correctly and eventually defaulted (not the one’s who got hit with medical bills who didn’t have insurance and we are going to see a lot of them as time goes on) NEVER change their spots.

Comment by wawawa
2006-08-19 17:15:25

“Money the Fed prints like confetti”

When Feds stopped publishing M3 numbers, no one in the media, no economist, no columnist raised the red flag. I feel that something sinister is going on.

 
Comment by crash1
2006-08-20 06:44:51

Mike, that’s quite a rant. I agree with it all.

 
Comment by kipper
2006-08-20 07:56:54

” Maybe if American’s stopped listening to the flag wavers on t/v and did some of their own thinking and observing instead of letting a few overpaid celebrity anchors think and observe for them, they might start to work out what’s true and what isn’t.”

So true. Our news is so slanted in its reporting. Especially with the world news. I wonder what percentage of Americans get that. Probably very few.

 
Comment by sigalarm
2006-08-20 08:11:56

Pretty good as far as rants go. I have noticed an increasing tendency on this blog to beat a drum about the evils of George W. Bush. I will confess to being rather disappointed in him on every front aside from standing up to terrorists, in spite the fact I admit to voting for him twice.

I will submit for your consideration that at this point (due to the way elections work in this country) complaining about George Bush is a bit like complaining about cancer. It may make you feel better but it’s not going to make it go away.

I firmly believe that on the topic of this blog (housing bubble), had Al Gore won in 2000 or John Kerry won in 2004, we would still be in just as much trouble today – maybe even a little bit more.

 
Comment by Chrisusc
2006-08-20 08:42:27

so tell us what you really think…
:)

seriously though, you are right on track. I believe its only a matter of time before a handful of blueboolds make the ultimate sellout of our country and turn it over to the Chinese. Sort of like what happened with Rome, when they would take over a country and still aloow the rich to be in charge as long as they helped collect the tax from the poor…

 
Comment by Chrisusc
2006-08-20 08:47:40

if you’re smart, dont think that Bush, Gore or any other blueblood is in your courner. Remeber Bush called the people on the border “terrorists”. Whether you agree with those people or disagree, they are citizens and the people coming over aren’t. Check the real wages for an tradesman vs. the same wages 20 years ago, before immigration. They are slowly lowering the income, increasing the debt (credit cards, R.E., etc.), lowering the education level, etc. so our country can fall. Watching Oprah a few weeks ago when they were covering education, there were actually people who didn’t know the first President. Were in trouble.

And for you antigov types. Dont be dumb enough to join NRA and give them all your inventory - which house do you think they are going to go to first…

Comment by auger-inn
2006-08-20 11:16:14

Agree wholeheartedly. http://www.freedomtofascism.com

 
 
 
Comment by Wes Chester
2006-08-19 19:38:54

The For Sale sign is now the official flower of the Hamptons.

The number of proprties on the market has grown immensely and the number is likely to become substantially larger after renters clear out after Labor Day and sellers who couldn’t sell and rented out make a second pass at the sales market.

At cocktail parties, last year’s bragging about real estate has all but disappeared. And the long. long winter is just around the corner.

The very top of the market has not been affected yet. But the layers below, aka “Wanabee World” are in very bad shape.

Comment by crispy&cole
2006-08-20 07:35:31

At cocktail parties, last year’s bragging about real estate has all but disappeared
________________________________

This reminds me of 2002 - no one was talking about their wealth in the stock market anymore. The endless chatter of how great people were in 1998-2000 because they bought JDSU, CMGI or some other piece of crap stock was gone. The conversations changed to their golf games and their kids.

Comment by Portland Mainer
2006-08-20 08:12:06

We all die broke.

 
 
Comment by Portland Mainer
2006-08-20 08:14:36

The long, lonf winter will probably not be three months this time, but more like three years.

 
 
Comment by Mozo Maz
2006-08-20 06:42:52

Ben has some good updates to the bubble photo gallery this weekend!

 
Comment by Chip
2006-08-20 07:22:06

Flippin’ On Down

I/O, I/O, deep in the hole I go
I work away another day
To serve a loan I can’t repay
I/O, I/O, I/O, I/O

I/O, I/O, my spirit’s waning so
I’m a slave to debt that I regret
I “knew” I’d win – a card’nal sin
I/O, I/O, I/O, I/O

I/O, I/O, I bet the farm on an Option Arm
“The payment’s low!” the teasers go
and now I’m screwed - my life’s unglued
I/O, I/O, I/O, I/O

I/O, I/O, I lost my bet, to my regret
Yep, I got hosed and they foreclosed
I left my keys — it was a breeze
I/O, I/O, I/O, I/O

I/O, I/O, I’m off to Mexico
The prices there you can’t compare
I beat my debt, let Joe regret
I/O, I/O, I/O, I/OOOOOOOOOOOOO….

Comment by kipper
2006-08-20 07:49:09

LOL!!!

 
Comment by sm_landlord
2006-08-20 08:59:44

Good One, Chip!

Gotta keep some humor as this plays out. Whistling past the McGraveyard :-)

 
 
Comment by txchick57
2006-08-20 07:40:57

I shudder to think what this guy has in mind

http://dallas.craigslist.org/acc/196442135.html

Comment by Chip
2006-08-20 07:51:01

Yup. “Just sign these papers. Don’t worry about it — here’s your commsision check. See, that was easy, wasn’t it?”

 
 
Comment by Portland Mainer
2006-08-20 07:41:13

August 20, 2006

Home sellers lower price or learn to chill

By TUX TURKEL, Portland Press Herald Writer

The number of single-family homes for sale in Maine
has hit record levels, industry figures show, with
inventory continuing to climb this summer.

More than 26,000 homes currently are on the market,
according to statistics from the Maine Real Estate
Information System, compared to roughly 18,000 at this
time last year, and 14,000 in 2004. Inventory has
grown by more than 1,000 in just the past month,
figures show.

This plentiful supply of homes has outpaced demand in
many areas, and that is pushing down prices, further
proof of a market that is shifting in favor of buyers.

In response, sellers are trimming their asking prices,
and some real estate agents are becoming more creative
to get their properties noticed, particularly in
southern Maine. One Realtor in South Portland offered
a free 24-month lease on a new car to buyers who
closed on select homes. An agent in Saco drew traffic
to an open house - and put the home under contract -
by slashing the price from $249,000 to $199,000.

It’s no secret that home sales have slowed in much of
the country.

The National Association of Realtors said last week
that 28 states and the District of Columbia were
reporting spring sales declines. Double-digit drops
were noted in former boom areas, such as Florida and
California. At the same time, states that saw only
moderate price increases during the past five years,
such as Arkansas and North Carolina, had sales heading
up.

Maine recorded a slight sales gain during the spring
period of 1.5 percent, the group reported. But it may
be too soon to answer one of the big-sky questions
about Maine real estate: Has the market cooled so much
that median home prices - which rose by double digits
for three years - will actually decline?

Recent trends are pointing in that direction. Here’s
some perspective.

The median sales price means half of the homes sold
for more, half for less. Between 2001 and 2002, median
prices rose by 15.14 percent. They were up 12.23
percent between 2002 and 2003; up 12.18 percent
between 2003 and 2004; and up 9.14 percent between
2004 and 2005, according to industry figures.

Taken together, the statewide median sales price rose
from $125,500 in 2001, to $189,000 in 2005.

Then the brakes came on. For the first six months of
this year, the median price has edged up just 2.91
percent, to $194,500.

Real estate markets are local, so it’s hard to make
generalizations. But in some areas, in some price
ranges, Realtors are calculating that it would take 12
to 18 months to sell current inventories, based on the
rate of sales activity over the past year or six
months.

“Some sellers haven’t come to the reality that it’s a
buyer’s market,” said Cathy Manchester, a Realtor at
Keller Williams Realty in Gray. “They’re still trying
to get higher appreciations. But the record inventory
means it’s a fantastic time to buy. Everything is
selling, if it’s priced right.”

What does it mean for a house to be “priced right?”
Take Bruce Thistle’s home in Windham.

Following appraisals from three real estate agents,
Thistle listed his split-level, beautifully landscaped
home with a right-of-way to Collins Pond last August
for $259,000. He finally got it under contract this
month, for $216,000.

“A year ago, if you told me I’d sell the house for
that price, I would have laughed,” he said.

Thistle only had one showing during the first six
months his home was for sale, even though he dropped
the price $9,000 during that period. In the meantime,
he and his wife were renovating his father’s former
house nearby and had moved out of their home of 37
years.

“I thought we’d sell it in days,” he said.

When Thistle’s listing contract expired in March, he
switched Realtors and went with Manchester. She
started the process at $240,000 and cut the price
three times before finding a buyer.

Thistle’s house was appealing because it’s well
maintained and has extensive gardens. It finally sold,
Manchester said, because the price was right. That
combination made it stand out in a market with too
many homes for sale and not enough buyers.

Consider the inventory in Windham. Over the past six
months, the town has had 52 homes for sale that were
priced from $220,000 to $250,000. Thirty-three of them
sold during that period, Manchester said. That
translates into an inventory of 5.5 months’ worth of
homes in Thistle’s price range.

“Right now,” she said, “what’s driving the market is
inventory, not historic prices.”

That’s a tough reality check for many sellers, who
have a hard time accepting how quickly the market has
changed.

Noah Smith is a Realtor with Coldwell Banker in Saco.
He listed a three-bedroom property in Hollis that
featured four acres, a sunroom, barn and inground
pool. The owner insisted he price it at $299,000. That
was more than a year ago, before Smith was able to
convince the owner to go down to $249,000.

After three months without an offer, Smith had another
idea. He set up an open house and invited fellow
Realtors via e-mail. The draw: A drastic price cut to
$199,000.

Smith and the seller reasoned that the bargain price
would attract attention, and it did. More than 30
parties came to the event, and the house finally is
under contract. Smith wouldn’t disclose the contract
price, but said his strategy was to generate enough
buyer interest to receive bids above the asking price.

In today’s market, Smith said, sellers need to be
realistic about the condition of their homes and the
asking price. That’s especially true in York County,
where inventory has continued to grow in recent weeks.

“Anyone who says the market is leveling off is in
denial,” Smith said.

With so much competition in the marketplace, some
agents are trying novel ideas to break through the
clutter.

Kevin Cloutier, a Realtor with Keller Williams Realty
in South Portland, ran newspaper ads last month
promising a new car to people who closed on a select
home. To separate his properties from the pack,
Cloutier reasoned, he needed to do more than just
lower the asking price.

Cloutier worked a deal with the Jolly John car
dealership for a 24-month lease on new vehicles, such
as the Jeep Liberty. The house sellers had to agree to
give the buyers $11,000 at closing, to cover the
lease.

“It was just a creative way of saying why this
$400,000, three-bedroom house is better than the one
up the street,” Cloutier said.

The technique brought in plenty of inquiries, but no
firm offers on the five homes that were part of the
experiment. Cloutier said he might try again next
month.

“It did generate activity,” he said. “There are just
too many houses for people to pick from.”

Other homeowners are dangling similar incentives. The
seller of a Portland condominium has been running
newspaper ads offering a new Honda Civic. Ads for a
new, energy-efficient home in the Sebago Lake region
feature this headline: “Free heat for 1 yr.!”

These measures don’t interest Cathy Manchester.

“You don’t need all those bells and whistles to sell
it,” she said, “if it’s priced, shown and marketed
right.”

Manchester expects inventory to build only to a
certain point. After that, falling prices and stable
mortgage interest rates will convince more buyers to
jump in.

But it’s harder to predict how far prices may fall. In
York County, for instance, both the number of homes
sold and the median sales price are down modestly for
the first half of 2006. Those figures are more or less
flat in Cumberland County.

Manchester doubts that statewide median sales prices
will actually decline in 2006. She expects this year’s
modest growth to continue, in the 3 percent range.

“It will seem like a leveling because of the market
we’ve been in,” she said.

Sheryl Gregory, a past president of the Maine Real
Estate Information System, said she detects that
leveling, but not a decline. A broker at Homestead
Realty in Winthrop, she’s operating in an area that
continues to see active sales and moderate growth in
housing prices. The buyer’s market that has washed
over southern Maine has yet to reach Kennebec County,
she said.

“If prices do decline,” she said, “they will be area
by area, month by month.”

http://business.mainetoday.com/news/060820homes.shtml

 
Comment by michael
2006-08-20 08:45:02

Rural Oregon Town Feels Pinch of Poverty
By ERIK ECKHOLM

OAKRIDGE, Ore. — For a few decades, this little town on the western slope of the Cascades hopped with blue-collar prosperity, its residents cutting fat Douglas fir trees and processing them at two local mills.

Into the 1980’s, people joked that poverty meant you didn’t have an RV or a boat. A high school degree was not necessary to earn a living through logging or mill work, with wages roughly equal to $20 or $30 an hour in today’s terms.

But by 1990 the last mill had closed, a result of shifting markets and a dwindling supply of logs because of depletion and tighter environmental rules. Oakridge was wrenched through the rural version of deindustrialization, sending its population of 4,000 reeling in ways that are still playing out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/20/us/20poverty.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

Difficult economic times are a subject playing
many financial boards this weekend and this
is an article talking about hard times. This NYT
article is anecdotal but it brings home the
hardships in small towns that we in suburban
locales don’t see (though we may see it in other
ways). I’ve been working for the last 32 years
and have never had to seriously look for work
so I guess I’ve been very lucky. Passing that on
to the next generation is a lot of hard work.

 
 
Comment by txchick57
2006-08-20 08:52:54
 
Comment by txchick57
Comment by Chip
2006-08-20 12:50:41

Either I haven’t read this Business Week format before, or I didn’t notice that they post comments in an easily scrollable view. The comments really pile it on.

 
 
Comment by Left LA Behind
2006-08-20 09:20:03

Greetings all from Zurich. Found this in the weekend FT today. I don’t know if it is a MSM outside of the US thing, but I have seen a noticeable increase in bearish news on both the ecomony and housing.

__________________________________________________________

Hard edge of a soft landing for housing

Published: August 19 2006 03:00 | Last updated: August 19 2006 03:00

The world’s leading economies have long been given extra impetus by an extraordinary boom in the price of houses. That boom now seems to be coming to an end, but exactly what happens next and what the effect will be on the world’s economy is not clear; the risks, however, are substantial.

The size of the boom is hard to dispute. According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, house prices have been enjoying their longest upswing since the 1970s. Leaving aside the long-lasting slumps in Japan and Germany, real house price growth in the OECD averaged5 per cent between 1995 and 2000, then accelerated to 6.6 per cent between 2000 and 2005. In the UK, France and New Zealand real house price growth hit nearly 10 per cent between 2000 and 2005, a huge increase over a sustained period. US real house prices increased by an average of 6.4 per cent between 2000 and 2005. Several countries now enjoy record house prices by reasonable measures, and the boom is highly synchronised by historical standards.

Such dizzy heights are not necessarily a pure bubble. House prices have tended to outpace consumer price inflation in the long run, fuelled by a combination of increasing wealth, finite land and, often, planning restrictions. They have also been boosted by low real interest rates and by low nominal rates, too, which spread the repayment burden more smoothly and so make houses easier to afford.

A report by the OECD at the end of 2005 concluded that a peak in house prices for most countries was unlikely before prices had risen further, and unless interest rates also rose by a percentage point or two. Yet both prices and rates have indeed risen. Now several markets have shown signs of weakness, and the implications may be stark even without a serious slump.

Naturally, attention is most closely focused on the US market, particularly following the Federal Reserve’s decision last week not to raise interest rates after 17 successive rises. That market now looks feeble. New single family home sales are 11 per cent lower year on year, while house prices are now barely rising. The stock of unsold houses relative to turnover has also jumped, the number of new building permits issued has been falling since February and builders are concerned about business conditions.

What makes housing prices so im­ponderable is that they are bound up in the animal spirits of everyday punters. Prices can be pushed higher simply by the expectation that that is where they should go, as buyers scramble to buy what they cannot afford using ever more innovative mortgage products, while sellers hold on to property and sell only with a view to buying something even bigger. A slowdown in these red-hot markets is inevitable. It may be gentle, but it is impossible to rule out a collapse of sentiment and of prices.

Even a soft landing would mean a prolonged period of stagnant nominal prices. Prolonged weakness in the housing market has characterised the struggling Japanese and German economies, which is hardly encouraging. The trouble is that greater housing wealth has encouraged consumers to borrow and spend. If housing wealth stops rising, even if it does not fall, consumer spending, the engine of economic growth in the short term, is likely to stall too. Australia and Britain have both seen this pattern already. If the US consumer were to give up and go home, the effect on the world’s economy could be depressing indeed.

 
Comment by cecil
2006-08-20 11:45:16

this just happened to catch my eye in the la craigslist…..

$1 MILLION MORTGAGE JUST $2500/MONTH

Reply to: see below
Date: 2006-08-19, 5:55AM PDT

Looking for the Best Mortgage Programs in the Market? Look No Further!

Switch to the hot new 1% pay plan and save thousands of dollars over what you pay now.

Welcome to the Dream Loan program. Get your Dream Loan today from people who won’t waste your time. 30+ years experience in the mortgage business gets you the best residential loan options in the country – period!
Pay only $250/month for every $100,000 borrowed!
Fast closings (typically 15 days or less)
Self-employed is OK
No Income Verification
No upfront fees or discount points
No origination fees
No Hassles!
We issue Approvals in hours… not days!
We specialize in loans from $250K to $30 Million
If you apply today, your next mortgage payment won’t be until October 1st!

10% down payment or 10% equity for refi required to qualify for the Dream Loan program.

You will need a credit score of 680 (preferably higher) to qualify for the low rate of 1%.

Looking for other solutions? We have up to 100% financing programs and zero seasoning equity loans as well.

You supply your own credit report (we’ll let you know where you can pull it from).
Unlike other lenders, we do not run credit unless necessary because it would reduce your score significantly.

Contact Jeff for an EASY application
DreamLoanPlatinum@msn.com

So we can serve you better, please include your name and telephone number for best response.

BUY HAPPY! …..LIVE WELL! ….. SPEND LESS!

(i especially liked this part!)

 
Comment by jack
2006-08-20 14:19:46

I just published the following in our notes to lenders and clients which we send out periodically. I can assure you there will be phone calls in the morning.

I have been investigating this Interest only option arm and it is a beast lurking under the stairs. The following excerpt will show that clearly. These things are real trouble.

From what I gather there are between $400,000,000,000 that’s billion and $1 trillion of mortgages with some derivation of this out there and they are due to reset in the next 18 months.

This will coincide with a significant downward thrust of values. The issue will then be if these folks want to refi and convert to fixed rates will there be any equity in the property with which to do so. Keep in mind that about 50-60% of new home purchases were made with 100% plus financing over the past 2-3 years.

It will likely play out this way. Many people will simply walk away. The 30 somethings have nothing to lose and plenty of time to get a new life. The 45’s up will try to hold on by making increased payments. Ya gotta live, right? However, the values will drop precipitously as more and more foreclosed properties become available as banks will be forced to write down loans and all will be upside down for years and years.

The double whammy will come in the form of people now having to allocate that additional $1500 to housing and not consumption. This will impact the entire economy and especially the service sector such as restaurants, hotels, travel etc. Descretionary spending will all but dry up. In the mix add the loss of many jobs especially those in the real estate industry. 4 out of 10 jobs created since 2000 are associated with that sector.

In my opinion this is not a forecast but a given. It is going to be bad. How bad depends upon what the government can do given the huge deficits we are faced with presently. I and others don’t see many tools available as was the case with the S&L meltdown associated with the commercial market. It pales by comparison. This is a huge pool comparatively and populated by unsophisticated people, homeowners.

In my industry we are turning down 60% of the work offered as it is a refi on a home purchased in the last year to 2 years. The lenders are hoping we will find a 20% increase in value as the underwriters are tightening and you must show equity in the property. IN 90% of the cases we find that the existing mortgages, a first and a piggy back second exceed the value of the home. These are the properties on which there were multiple bids last year and the contract price exceeded asking price in many cases.

Sellers are beginning to get it. However, the buyers are sitting, waiting to see how far they will fall. This is the absolute worst scenario as all of our banker clients know. The doldrums! Typically, and based upon history, we can anticipate a wobbling effect and perhaps a small mini-boom as sellers start to drop prices, auctions, which are occurring now, and that pent up “gotta move now” psychology.

However do not be fooled as the fundamentals are way out of whack with rents being at practical rate while housing is way up(same utility), incomes flat to slightly increasing and real inflation well above what is being reported. Unsustainable emotional value beliefs by homeowners are based upon wickedly idiotic lending over the past few years. LEVERAGED REAL ESTATE

The wealth effect which has been brought on by refi’ing and pulling equity out of your home is over. This number was equivalent to having incomes go up by 200% nationwide overnight.

An example I personally witnessed was a couple who live in the Clermont area. They lived in a 1600 square foot house with a pool. They bought the house in 2003 for $187,000. They are both correctional officers with xxx county making about $30,000 a year,each. When I arrived I found two brand new cars in the driveway, one a passenger car and the other an SUV. The house was well maintained but upon inspection I noticed that it was fitted out like mansion. I could not believe the toys and the electronics as well as the finish of the home. It was as upscale as you could get in a modest neighborhood.

IN the appraisal world that gets your attention and my curiosity was peaked. I began my inspection at this point and the lady of the house asked me if I would like to see the last appraisal. I said “sure.”

She went into the office and brought out a file 3 inches thick. She then pulled out 4 appraisals all of which had been done in the past 18 months. Yep, they had refi’d 4 times in that period. They had an additional income, to them, of $110,000 or roughly an extra $55,000 a year with no taxes. They also had huge deductions for interest.(HUGE)(60% of all homes in the US have refi’d 3 times in the last 3 years)

I pulled the last appraisal and found that the value on that appraisal was 20% above($347,000) the current market value based on the sales I had in hand. I did not complete the appraisal and told her that my value was well below her last appraisal. She said, “oh no we will lose this house if we don’t get the loan.”

They had gone with an ARM loan and had an interest rate of 13% at that time.(Poor Credit)

This is not an unusual scenario folks. Also this was over a year ago. It is much worse now.

This thing is unwinding now and I will keep you posted. For the real estate professionals and lenders there won’t be many surprises as we have all been there done that but for those of you who have not been watching this closely I wanted to give you a heads up.

Jack

This went to local clients and portends to represent just that, local issues. Nationwide I suspect isn’t much different but here in Central Florida it has been nothing short of a breathtaking whoopedeedoo ride.

Please take alternate route to avoid the coming crater.

Comment by Chip
2006-08-20 19:02:48

That was a great post, Jack. Looking forward to your update(s).

 
 
Comment by waiting_for_the_fall
2006-08-20 21:04:40

I got a letter from Countrywide the other day. It said the person who processed my loan was convicted of stealing and my personal information might have been sold and used for identity theft.

Of course, they offered to give me 12 months free for their credit report service.

My question is: are they using a stealing employee to sell their credit report service?!? Countrywide must be desperate for funds.

Comment by jack
2006-08-21 04:15:46

Why do you need it if you got the loan already?

Comment by waiting_for_the_fall
2006-08-21 07:41:51

It’s for checking your credit report. Maybe they send you monthly credit reports. The service is free for 12 months, then you have to pay.

 
 
 
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