‘Buyers Only Willing To Play Lowball’ In California
The Pasadena Star has this report from California. “Jim and Gerry Balazs’ La Habra home has been on the market for eight months, so they agreed to spice up the offer by throwing in a new car or truck. Their broker, Mark Tacconelli, got the idea from a similar offer in Virginia. Tacconelli suggested a pickup truck to keep with the fixer-upper theme.”
“‘We were thinking of a truck. You have a truck to go back and forth to Home Depot, Tacconelli said.”
“He had tried lowering the price or taking the home off the market, but other home prices in the neighborhood were adjusted accordingly, he said. ‘Buyers are much more picky now,’ he said. ‘They take a lot longer. You’re competing against more houses.’”
“Including a car as a sales incentive is done more often with builders who don’t want to devalue the price of their subdivisions and who want to show some level of sales activity, said Vince Malta, 2006 president of the California Association of Realtors.”
“‘I think you look at it both ways,’ Malta said of the car offer. ‘It attracts interest in the listing, but the downside is it may be counterproductive in some instances in that it might be masking an overpriced property.’”
“Jim and Gerry Balazs are living at a retirement center in Irvine and hoping they get a good return on their investment. ‘We have to live off of something and our money is tied up here,’ Jim Balazs said. ‘We don’t sing the blues, but it gets a little frustrating. The money we get out of the house we would put in the bank, and we would feel more comfortable.’”
The San Francisco Gate. “Most recent numbers suggest that the Bay Area (is) no longer a market in which sellers can set their price according to comparable properties in the neighborhood and then wait for the bidding war to send the price over the moon.”
“According to DataQuick, Bay Area home sales slowed in July to their lowest levels in 10 years, while prices increased at their slowest pace since 2003. Translation: It’s not a seller’s market anymore. The only problem? Many sellers don’t want to hear that.”
“Indeed, as the real estate market comes to a screeching halt, agents are finding themselves in the unfamiliar role of dietitians for sellers whose eyes bigger than their buildings. ‘It’s a classic dilemma in the changing dynamics of real estate,’ explains (realtor) John Asdourian.”
“Of course, real estate agents have a vested interest in bringing sellers up to speed as quickly as possible. The more homes languish on the market, the worse their bottom line in commissions.”
“Some agents are less politic about the frustrations of dealing with unrealistic sellers. ‘She’s in for an education, all right,’ one agent, who asked to remain nameless, told me after dishing the dirt on a prospective client. ‘She thinks her condo is worth more than it is, she wants to live there while it’s up for sale, she doesn’t want to stage it and she doesn’t want to do a speck of work on it. Not even painting!’ He pauses. ‘Well, she’s gonna learn the hard way, and it’s not going to be pretty.’”
“Indeed, one of the only generalizations about the current Bay Area market is that although prices may be headed south, at this moment it’s more of a micro market than ever. Some houses get many offers, while others don’t get a single one, even after multiple price reductions. And this is a hard lesson to learn for sellers ready to take the money and run and buyers willing to only play lowball.”
When I first changed my last name, no realtor would agree to work with me. Lately, though, realtors seem to want my business more than ever!
-mr. b
That’s what this market needs, some good old fistacuffs!
Homerage seems to have picked up recently. A house in my neighborhood sold for about $100k less than the listing price of a similar house. After escrow closed, the +$100k home seller found out about the other sale and was furious. He actually confronted the other seller for costing him $100k.
A friend bought in Sebastapol CA in the early 90s, they paid 250k for a house that was “worth” 390k. The sellers treated my friend like vermin for stealing the house at such a low price. My friend had to get a restaining order after the seller took a swing at him.
another good reason to wait for the REOs.
Oh, I think there will be lots of Jerry Springer moments before this is all said and done. The “COPS” producers should also be on alert.
I hope he lowered his offer by 20k after that. Then the seller could forever be haunted by memories of the $20,000 punch.
The “$20,000″ punch - love that!
If I were lowballing right now, I’d be very clear: “It’s not personal. It’s just business.”
While stifling a cackle.
I’m sure sellers in SF felt the same way in ‘04/’05 when 10 offers at a time came in, with most well over asking.
This reminds me of something that I witnessed many years ago. We were renting an apt, and some guy in a MB blocked someone in their parking space on the parking deck. So the guy called a towtruck. The towtruck shows up and just when he’s about to drive off with the MB, the owner comes out and demands to have his MB taken off the towtruck. The towtruck driver says, “$100 and I’ll take it down”. So the MB driver hits him right in the face. Instead of fighting back, the towtruck driver just says “$200″. So the MB driver hits him again. “$300″. At “$500″, the MB guy stopped hitting him.
It was one of the funniest things I ever saw. I will never forget it as long as I live.
Dude, when a similar thing happened to my dad (parked in a “no-parking” area that was badly marked), he told us he felt relieved it was JUST the cost of the tow.
Since we were visiting another city at the time, a missing car would have been one heckuvan inconvenience.
what a jackass…. they could have always rejected the offer.
Some people are irrational so when you see them, give them a wide berth. I would not have purchased a house from any psycho. Look for another! And if you do, make sure you change the locks!
I would not buy a home from people like that either. That seller might not even get $230K a year or two later. 1993 to 1994 was where the bottom was during the previous bust. Sellers then didn’t understand buyers were taking lots of risk buying their homes that the prices could still fall another 5 to 10%.
This is why I’m not sure I’d buy a foreclosure for my personal residence. There might be some bitter feelings on the other end, and they know where you live.
Absolutely. They are BITTER (and I cannot say that in large enough font size).
You really need to watch your back. They project their bad decisions on something/someone else (they are in denial or cannot accept that it was completely their fault). They displace their anger on something/someone. You want to make sure it is not YOU….some of these people are irrational. Sometimes the situation makes a basic rational person a little nuts.
Buyer beware - in more than one way. Seriously.
Can’t you just use an intermediary to make the purchase so that he/she becomes the focus of the seller’s anger?
At some point, you move in … even if you use someone else to broker it. The whole point is that they know where you live!!!!
I had a similar experience in Russia actually so I can sympathize.
I bought an apartment from a professional soccer player in Moscow that was being relegated to some backwater town and had to sell his Moscow apartment before being shipped out. It was shell and core so he wasn’t too attached to it however I did try to be tactful at the signing. I also had two lawyers look over the purchase.
It’s rare that a person comes back after being tossed out via foreclosure. Very rare. Most are too ashamed.
Shame for stupidity is an emotion which seems to have somehow gotten lost in the bubble. But I expect it will soon make a rather spectacular comeback.
In 30 years of real estate investing, I have never met a foreclosure person ashamed. They blame everybody, from the president to the bank to the builder…and they usually steal everything not bolted down on the way out.
When banks win at the foreclosure sale, they have to send a Marshall out with the locksmith to avaiod any confrontation. Ashamed not not the emotion of a evection.
David-
YOU are absolutely correct. They would rather break everything inside than let “someone else have it”.
A very juvenile reaction.
Definitely remove yourself from these people if you buy AND immediately change all your locks and put in an alarm system and motion lights. A barking dog does not hurt.
Then - enjoy!
A friend of mine was renting a little one-room house in sebastapol a few years back, early-ish in the bubble years. He was paying $800/month. His landlord put the house on the market and people started showing up to look at it even without appointments. It was listed at $300K, which a looker told me was quite a bargain. I remember right then, way before I knew about the bubble, thinking that $800/month rent was a good bargain, but that $300K price was outrageous. A old, dark little one-room house.
“His landlord put the house on the market and people started showing up to look at it even without appointments.”
They ALWAYS do, especially if the house is at a bargain price. Been there, done that. I will never ever live in a house that is on the market again. It is horrible, people are beyond rude.
Answer the door stinking drunk and barely wrapped in a towel. Heck, I do that anyhow.
Nah - doesn’t help - if you are a WOMAN…guys might actually like that!
Strap on some chain mail and hold a whip with your Soldier of Fortune Magazine in your hand and put a crazed look in your eyes….
If you’re a WOMAN…guys might actually like THAT, too.
touche.
I realized that after I hit send LOL
I’d tell them what a craphole the place was and not to buy it. After a couple of those, the seller would probably do something to prevent that.
Place kinda spoke for itself. It was listed as cosmetic fixer but was more like a contractor’s special.
We lived there a very long time and I wanted a good reference. When you have pets and are looking for a place the reference is pretty important.
“After a couple of those, the seller would probably do something to prevent that.”
Maybe Jimmy Three Fingers?
The sellers treated my friend like vermin for stealing the house at such a low price.
I’ve heard similar stories from friends who lived in Sonoma at the time. We’ve visited numerous dumps that were priced for $700K and up, and we’re sure it’s coming again. 1990, 1999 (dot-bomb) and now 2006; what have people learned? Just check out the level of risk exposure on payment option loans for Santa Rosa. It won’t be pretty.
You pretty much have the whole Bay Area covered with Payment option loans. Man this is going to get really ugly
for many.
I cannot overstate how much I look forward to the end of the Option ARM daze, and the attendant crash in the Bay Area Bubble…
Yuma?? YUMA?!?!?!?!?
Been there once, I call it the “Armpitt of the World”. Thought I was being kind at that.
Update (if anybody cares)
San Diego Friend still trying to move to San Francisco. (I’ve spoken of him before here)
Briefly, makes in the 35k/year range (maybe 40k with overtime), has townhome/condo that cost $450k range. (small 2Br/2Ba on border of University Heights/Hillcrest)
Option ARM (is there any other way)?
Today is the first payment due after the reset. His payment went up $800 a MONTH.
needless to say, he can’t afford this.
now:
He’s panicking.
He can’t pay the mortgage.
He can’t sell (most recent appraisal, $80k UNDER purchase price, which must have been in 2004, because he’s resetting now)
new plan: he’s gonna stay in SD and live in the condo, and he’s trying to rent the second bedroom out to a couple, thinking they can pay more than a single person.
No takers.
closeau
Keep updating.
Thanks!!
He should pretend he’s an illegal alien, then he can get student loans to save his house. Don’t need documentation except two pieces of ID showing birth in Tiajuana and a paycheck stub for picking lettuce in Mexicali. Thank you Arnold and the rest of the Democrats in Sacto. Now that I think about it, that’s a great idea.
Amigo, where can I sign up for that gravy train?
No hablo espanol…
You’re surely not talking about gov’t student loans (which is what most people mean when they say student loans) Did something recently pass, or are you talking about private loans?
http://www.finaid.org/otheraid/undocumented.phtml
1) Relevance?
2) Illegal alien =/= easier to get student loans. In fact it is down-right impossible. I assume you are talking about some recent California legislation? Most financial aid is federal.
http://www.finaid.org/otheraid/undocumented.phtml
3) Arnold =/= Democrat (I understand the joke)
Everyday you silly racists post more vitriolic nonsense.
O RLY?
http://tinyurl.com/pjxa5
Holy crap all three showed up.
Didn’t know Arnold was a Democrat? Didn’t he appear with Bush at the Republican Convention? Man, this political thing
is happening too fast!
thinking they can pay more than a single person
Why stop at 2?
Sad story.
“thinking they can pay more than a single person”
She might.
Good thing there’s a shortage of rentable rooms in SD.
I know a good 8-member latino family that would be happy to rent for 800/month. Pass along my info if he’s interested.
How does he feel about being a male gigolo in Hillcrest?
hehehehehehe, yeah he can hang out in front of “Gaymart” (real place down there, BTW)
That boat has sailed. Sadly Garmart is gone(for over a year), long live Gaymart.
Say it isn’t so! Where will I go to find a pin the penis on a man game?
Hell yea.. its reseting as we speak… Billions by end of 2006…
Renting out to a couple…. he should be prepared for some “two against one” situations, even though he is the owner. If one gets mad at him or wants their own way on something, chances are the other will come along for the ride.
OMG, someone making 40K a year should not buy something over 80-100K. They cannot afford anything higher than that.
I cannot BELIEVE someone gave him a 450,000 mortgage on that kind of income. That is truly INSANE!
If this variance is the norm we will all be screwed. It is one thing to give him a 250K mortgage - bad enough - But 450K?????
But his income is sure to go up and real estate never goes down.
As I said before, those that took these loans were lying to themselves. A whole new meaning to Liar Loans.
Dude, you are sooo behind the times.
There’s frick’n baker (as in make me a loaf of bread) one thread back that has $45k in income and has $840K in mortgages!
But the baker makes a lot of dough!
Sorry, I just could not resist that.
But the baker makes a lot of dough!
Don’t laugh, that’s probably what he told the mortgage lender to get the money.
940K not 840K!
Regarding exagerated income. I don’t care who bends the rules - the buyer who fibs about his income, or the creditor who twists applications to turn the buyer into a FB. Liars deserve to suffer deeply. I have no sympathy at all for them.
He makes LESS than 40k and lives in a 450k house? That is over 10 times his salary. What was he thinking? how did he afford it? My wife and I live in Philadelphia. I am a school teacher, she’s a social worker. We bought a house from her parents that is about 1.4 (yes, one point four) times our combined salary. We struggle to pay the damn mortgage and feel like we are living pay check by paycheck. I…I don’t know. I know the answers to the questions I asked, so I am just talking out loud in befuddlement.
When I bought, mine was a little under 2 times salary - about 1.8+.
I am with you. This is just blowing my mind. The disparity on this one is just INSANE!!!!
I couldn’t buy a shack around here with 2 times my salary!
In South Central LA, houses are routinely bought and sold now for around that price range (450K), and combined family income is usually no more than 45K. All they look at is, how much is the monthly payment — now, not two years or five years later.
Uh…if he’s making only 35-40K, he should reconsider moving to SF. It’s hard enough living there on triple that salary.
The guy will walk soon. No choice.
Closeau — never enough of these first-person stories. Thanks for keeping us current.
Only way out is Bankruptcy unfortunately. He should file sooner than later…
how about foreclosure? that is not the same as bankruptcy.
At $35k/yr, your friend can’t even qualify to buy a $15k Corolla unless he has a co-signer. And he went out to buy a $450k property. My wife and I got scared when we bought our first house in 2000 for $218k. We walked away from a $250k house because we were not comfortable with the payments. At that time, our household income was more than twice what your friend is making now.
yes he can. even at 30k you should qualify for 15k car, 5 year loan.
What is it with incentives. I don’t get it.
If I offer you a $20,000 car, then you get $20,000.
If I cut the price by $20,000, you get $20,000, and I pay $600 less in real estate commissions (assuming a 3% rate).
Heck, I could offer a $20,300 price cut, and still end up $300 ahead of the damn car.
Ahem, I offer you a $20,000 car, then you get a 30 year car payment.
You take the car and an illegal, uninsured person hits you next month, totals it out, and the insurance company pays you only 15,000 for replacement when they depreciate it.
Even if they’re insured, the value of the totalled car may not get you a similar make/model year. And with a used car purchase, there’s no guarantee the seller took care of it like you did yours.
Been there, done that, avoided whiplash though, so that’s a plus.
The realtors don’t want to cut the price because that lowers their commision.
Of course not. But you’d have to be crazy, as a buyer, to accept a car or anything else as an “incentive.” My favorite is the “fully furnished” sale, in which the buyer pays for used furniture with a 30-year loan. Great.
If I were a buyer I’d be telling these agents to stick the car and the furniture where the sun don’t shine and I would drop my offer by $5,000 everytime anything objectionable came out of the agent’s mouth.
I think I may try this! I won’t get the property but I’ll get the satisfaction of sending the seller or realtor into apoplexy (hopefully both)
This reminds of that scene in Austin Powers when Dr. Evil is “shushing” his son. After a short while the kid couldn’t make a peep… remember that?
As you guys mention, I would do the same with the realtor(tm) and seller.
“Any noise outta ya and it’s going down at $5K a pop!”
I got a whole bag of ssshhh right here.
http://www.ssssshhh.com
That was a funny scene.
Oh, I absolutely agree with you DC. I’m not saying it’s rational but that’s why it’s done. The realtor wants you to offer the buyer of your house a $20,000 car so they can keep their $80,000 BMW.
Didn’t see your comment before posting mine. My point exactly. I can understand if it’s a big building doing it, but if you’re selling your own house … Idiot sellers…
Idiot buyers!
Idiots overall, but the agents especially. What makes more sense: lower the prices by whatever it takes to sell and get 3-6% of something, or keep the price high for optics, throw in some incentives, and risk not getting any commission? Not to mention any savvy buyer would say screw the truck and plasma tv, I want a lower price because I pay property taxes on a % of what I bought for (not net of book value of F-150).
Rest assured this a$$hat assumption that realtors don’t want to lower the price on listings because they want higher commissions is the figment of hyperactive imaginations. Makes you wonder if the people saying that even have basic math skills. Example: 6% of 500k = 30k now lets reduce by say 30%. 6% of 350k = 21k . Now being that Realtors work on 100% commission don’t you think that they would rather take the 21k and sell it then sit and wait untill the next upswing in the market whenever that comes to make 30k. Come’on pull your head out. If the sellers would let them they would be priced right.
mrincomestream you can’t fantasize thoughts and deeds of other people. I know for a FACT, it is agents propping up prices because a friend want to sell for lower and the agent demanded it be higher.
I can provide you with a roomful of 50 agents who will take someone who wants to list their property for less in a heartbeat. It doesn’t benefit an agent to do that in a slow market. Why so you can comeback and beat them up for an adjustment later?. Why make yourself look stupid like that. Hell I’d pay money for a client with that kind of mindframe. In fact if he was wrong the market will let him know day one. His agent would need a wheelbarrow for the offers.
It doesn’t make any sense. If I have a seller who wants to price lower than what I suggest and he has no obvious mental condition. What he says goes. Period.
If it’s happening it defies logic. But you know what after what I saw this past weekend. Anything is possible.
“Not to mention any savvy buyer would say screw the truck and plasma tv”
Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Are these the same ’savvy buyers’ that have been using Option-ARMs to ‘barely afford’ $600K houses in California…without thinking about the payment resets?
Wow, that was a good laugh!
Realtors manipulate buyers and sellers into getting the house sold as quickly as possible. I can’t envision a scenario where a Realtor would artificially inflate prices (other than bloviating on blogs and other medium)
For me reading a Carol Lloyd column all the way through invariably seems like a waste of time. So I didn’t. I did skip to the last paragraph where she says:
“Some ZIP codes seem to be imploding, while others continue to sell well. Some houses get many offers, while others don’t get a single one, even after multiple price reductions.”
From my tracking observations on the Peninsula she’s got that right.
Not surprisingly the commute zip codes are doing most of the imploding.
Just curious, which Peninsula communities still seem to be selling well?
“…which Peninsula communities still seem to be selling well?”
The ones I’m most interested in: Menlo Park, Palo Alto, Burlingame, and San Mateo. Sales have slowed but inventories are still lean. There are few quality homes to choose from so when one does come on the market it tends to sell quickly. But the million dollar cracker box houses can sit for months.
I’ll second mad_tiger on this and add that pretty much anything outside of the slums is still selling pretty well. I really dont understand how people are buying these houses. Its hard to imagine that someone smart enough to make $150K would use an option ARM to overpay on a house. Maybe its just all the long time homeowners trading houses with each other.
There are a number of listings on the Peninsula that are quick resales of homes that recently sold.
For example, 350 Portola San Mateo 94403 MLS#: 655213 came on the market today listed at $1,095,000. But it sold (per Zillow) on May 3 2006 for $960,000. I understand from someone who saw this listing when it sold in May that there was no remodeling needed. I don’t know what the story is.
I have seen several other such quick resales listed on the Peninsula in the last few weeks.
It’s exactly that - there are virtually no first time buyers in the bay area. The only people buying now are the ones who have owned since 2000 and can net $500K of existing equity on a place to move into a newer/bigger place.
The 350 Portal SM home is :
Bedrooms: 2 Baths: 1.0 Total rooms: 5.0
Sq ft: 1,340 1st floor finished sq ft: 1,340
Lot size: 3,400 sq ft / 0.08 acres
Year built: 1940 Heating: Central
A Million for That …LOL What an idiot would pay that much for so little and so old…
For a million bucks all you get are cracker boxes.
I was waiting for someone to mention that.
“Menlo Park, Palo Alto, Burlingame”
As someone who has lived in the Bay Area for since 60’s I cant imagine why anyone would live there. It has always been a terrible place to live. There are cheaper, cleaner, and far better quality homes in other cities.
The weather is fantastic, the location is near Stanford and between Silicon Valley and San Francisco, and the area has a liberal atmosphere. Prices have always been relatively high and relatively volitile in this area.
Zillow has market heat maps that show pretty well the hot spot that surrounds Stanford and which remains hot, in large part because of the small number of listings currently available.
Agreed. Im in Los Gatos. I also like Saratoga Los Altos Hills Monte Soreno my top picks. Mill Valley has a great view of the Bay Area. Santa Cruz has sweet spots too.
“Some houses get many offers”
LOL!
Last of stupid people forming a suicide circle in defense.
Or General Custard Last Stand.. No property is immune once prices head south.
As usual, the SF Comical couldn’t resist sucking: after a decent description of all the bad omens for the housing market, she writes:
“One Bernal Heights listing for a spruced-up, staged, two-bedroom, two-bath home for $870,000 is expected to receive close to 10 offers and go well over $900,000.”
What kind of lazy-ass reporting is that? If you don’t have an ACTUAL example of a sale at nosebleed levels, don’t just invent one.
I think you answered your own question in that last sentence.
Carol Lloyd is a moron … she’s been one of the biggest “cheerleaders” for the real estate bubble with her “Surreal Estate” column in the S.F. Comical, and her columns were nothing but “gee whiz” stories of ridiculous excessive bidding wars and houses bid up way over asking prices. No analysis of things like why this is happening, much less the risky mortgages that permit people to engage in this lunacy. She wrote relatively recently in her column that she “traded up” to a bigger home in Bernal Heights … hence, this may be the reason she writes an anecdote in her column about an “expected” sale in Bernal Heights that will result in a big bidding war and go way over listing … Wishful thinking on her part. She’s a total idiot.
Back when I lived in SF, Bernal Heights was definitely not a place where people went to spend $900 grand.
Hmmm… you know… if I recall, she didn’t buy that place too long ago. 18 months? Two years? She mentioned it in a column.
In any case, a realtor(tm) could have told her she’s going to get $900K or whatever and 10 bidders.
I’d like to to know how that actually turns out.
“big bidding war and go way over listing”
Oh this is the part where the sellers agent tells you there are multiple bids…
And I ask ‘What to tell me their names and number’?
Needless to say its all phony … there were never that many bidders in all cases.
“What kind of lazy-ass reporting is that? If you don’t have an ACTUAL example of a sale at nosebleed levels, don’t just invent one.”
Like Bob Novak said, “There are thumb-sucking journalists and there are reporting journalists.”
It’s not difficult to tell one from the other.
I saw that, too. My initial thought was that she just made that up… or it roughly approximates something she heard somewhere from someone.
So someone is going to pay an additional hundred grand or so because of “staging”? Really?
The real estate reporting in the Chronicle is about as connected to reality as the tech reporting was during the dotcom boom. Lots of reporting about the “crazy” way money just falls from the sky. I assume that in the ’60’s the reporting was about how the hippies were just going to abandon money and live off of love and good vibes.
Then again, if your column is called “Surreal Estate” I guess, by definition, you can’t focus to much on the cold realities.
“So someone is going to pay an additional hundred grand or so because of “staging”? Really?”
Staging is just another bunch of sharks trying to get more out of the deal… There in it for the $$$$….
“So someone is going to pay an additional hundred grand or so because of “staging”? Really?”
After watching a couple of episodes of “Sell this house” I’m afraid that the answer to that question is yes. I can’t watch anymore because of my urge to reach through the screen, throttle the buyers, and scream, “You’re buying the HOUSE! Not their furniture!”
But at least now I know that I want to buy a house that looks ugly but has solid bones. Let everyone else buy the lipstick smeared pigs.
One-hundred-grand? I’m sorry–that’s moronic to rent furniture that way. If you have no style sense, then find yourself an interior decorator grad, pay her a few grand, and the rest on furniture you’ll enjoy in your new home.
Have people completely lost common sense?
Cancel that comment–I thought I read someone was paying six figures for staging Duh!
“One Bernal Heights listing for a spruced-up, staged, two-bedroom, two-bath home for $870,000 is expected to receive close to 10 offers and go well over $900,000.”
BH homes were going around $200-250K less then 10 years ago… so what has changed to justify nearly 4.5x increase? Not much…
At 5% Yoy that gets you around $375-400… a +50% correction in the works..
More bad news for California jobs…
Intel to lay off thousands more.
Lockheed got the new space vehicle, no work for aerospace in California as part of the deal. Good for TX and FLA, though.
Not a problem for So Ca. Everyone wants to live here and we will soon unionize day laborer.
- We’re different.
Ditto for Central Ca - our prices are more “affordable” and we “different”!
Oh, you mean the bus rider’s union? (Already done).
Or are you referring to the loiterer’s union?
I hear the malingerers are petitioning to join the AFL-CIO.
Oh, wait…
The day laborers likely all work harder than you do, small_landlord.
Even if he was a lazy-ass, small_landlord pays more in taxes than day laborers do, MacAttack.
MacAttack,
Ever painted a 14 unit building with only one helper? How many garbage disposals have you changed out in your lifetime? Ever even *hire* a day laborer?
I didn’t think so.
Anyone who thinks that being a landlord is not hard work is welcome to take classes at the sm_landlord school of building maintenance and refurbishment (SMSBMR.edu). Heck, I might even pay you to scrape and sand trim for week or two. You can get extra credit for snaking out a 4″ sewer line while you’re at it. Be sure to clean up the pool of sewage after you break the clog.
In our athletics department here at SMSBMR.edu we offer refrigerator wrestling, water heater lifting, and P-trap contortionism. Advanced academic electives include tenant psychology, dispute mediation, and applied political science in municipal governance.
A diploma entitles you to verbal abuse, character assassination, arthritis, nervous exaustion, lawsuits, financial risk, a revenue stream, and a possible capital gain.
Disclaimer (Our lawyers made us say this): All revenue and capital gains are subject to taxation. Water is taxable both coming and going. Garbage disposal is subject to taxation and fees. Property and improvements are subject to taxation. City and county inspectors may require unexpected investments at any time without warning. You may be liable for toxic chemical and mold exposure. Your tenants and their visitors may sue for trips and falls. Structure may be subject to termites and rot. Contractors may attach mechanics leins due to disputes with inept permitting authorities. Iron pipe is subject to bursting within walls. Land is subject to earthquakes, and insurance will not cover your losses. Economic fluctuations may impoverish your tenants, causing loss of income. Tenants may include serious psychosis and drug-related malfunctions. You may be subject to disability or discrimination baiting and discrimination lawsuits. Rent payments may be late or missing. Other unenumerated liabilities may occur at the whim of innumerable layers of government, including by popular vote. All rents must be registered. Fees will apply to support the bureaucrats who limit your allowed rental price.
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landlord,
You don’t really believe that your existence is more difficult than the average day laborer. This is not a question. HTH.
You forgot the elective classes in Spanish and ebonics.
Bwwahhhhhaaaa @ sm_landlord . How funny how true
Looking down the supply chain….
Wait for the ripple effect on Semi Equipment Mfgs… The electronics component mfgs and Software that are Intels vendors.
This is only the start of it. Its going to get ugly.
Seriously, I do not hear of *any* new jobs into Southern California *except* the JSF production. Ok, that will help Lancaster/Palmdale a little. Everything else…
We’re moving jobs to Arizona. Its cheaper for us to hire people there, fly them in to Los Angeles when we need them (including hotel, per diam, etc.) and send them back.
This will not be over for years. How many businesses will join Nissan, Intel, Countrywide, etc. and leave this state?
Neil
Yep, the company (my client) has an office in LA and one in Phoenix, as well as one on the east coast. We just expanded office space in Phoenix. Actually the Phoenix office is cleaner and the view is much better than the LA office where I worked at for 3 years. The company cannot find anyone who wants to go to LA. These are engineering jobs paying in the $90’s. Engineers prefer Phoenix to Silly Cone Valley and Lost Angeles.
well, yes, with the same pay.
Wonder when Toyota will follow Nissan and move their west Coast Hdqts from torrance to back east.
It seems as if LA Basin is becoming a very unfriendly climate for large Corporations to do business. Lets see why:
1 lack of affordable housing
2 long tiring commutes for their workforce.
3. worlds worst traffic congestion
4. difficulity getting materials and supplies
delivered in LA Area(due to #3
5. Anti-business climate in Liberal California.
6. No large open green spaces anywhere in LA area
(Corporations prefer ample greenbelt open spaces for
their employees)
Note: The places where Modern hi-tech Corporation parks are expanding in Scal, such as Valencia and south OC, Have some of the desirabllty factors listed above(the most glaring exception is affordable housing). South OC certainly is far ahead when it comes to traffic planning and laying out greenbelts for corporate park sites. Not to forget 1000 oaks,westlake/newbury park corporate sites, though they pose some logistics supply problems.
“worlds worst traffic congestion”
you must be kidding, right? have you seen a traffic congestion in one of the crowded cities in asia?
Swerving OT into a rant here — does anyone, who is familiar with the Broken Window fallacy in economics, care to explain why the US taxpayers should continue to shell out billions of dollars on a space program that will get us a base on the moon and that has not, to my knowledge, been able to show what we should expect in tangible benefits therefrom? I do not want to pay for “intangible” benefits. I vote NO on that.
Now, the Swiss are efficient and they are very clever. They do not have an illegal-immigrant problem and they do not have a terrorism problem. They have lots of money. We could lease them our launch facilities, our training facilities, whatever they need. Why don’t we encourage the Swiss, who love to collect rent, taxes and conference revenue from every feel-good organization on the planet, to go to the moon and “share” with us the results? Well, it’s because they’d tell us, in French, German and Italian, to kiss their fondue.
I think Hubble is cool, though I shudder to guess at the real total cost of getting that baby into orbit and keeping it there. End of cool. We are about to enter a period of not-in-our-lifetime OMG reality in our economy. Let “others” come up with the space “miracles” for a change. I vote No for it with my tax dollars.
/Rant off.
agreed. I once was a space cadet and followed the Space program. Then I realized it’s really welfare for the astronomers and scientists. Space exploration and expenditures should only be from private corporations and also used for defense purposes - after all, the U.S. Constitution does say that the government must provide defense. Whoever owns space owns the universe. May as well be the enlightenment-based country.
Time for the obligatory Carol Lloyd evisceration (see second article, from the SF Chronicle, posted above):
Well, Lloyd certainly has changed her tune from lo, a month ago, when she stated that buyers waiting for a price drop in SF Bay Area were delusional. A slight nod in this article to rising Bay Area inventory (no mention of course that it’s doubled, and more, from a year ago), but still quoting realtors as if their stories of multiple offers were gospel. Evidence? And if only 30% of sellers don’t need to sell (but will instead rent their properties out if they don’t get their desired price, as she states), then maybe some stories of sellers who *do* need to sell would be appropriate. Since that would apparently be the vast majority of sellers.
My persistent problem with Lloyd is her amateur, emotional reporting on the housing market — a subject with so many moving parts it seems to make her dizzy.
Didn’t Lloyd just buy a house/condo in the last 8 months? Doesn’t she teach a class on real estate? I’ll take my answers off the air. hehehehehehehehe
“amateur, emotional reporting”
It’s not just Llloyd and the subject of real estate at the Chronicle - this is what the “Lamest Newspaper in All of America” specializes in doing.
And that’s when it’s trying to do any “reporting” at all.
The funny thing is, at the end of Lloyd’s column, “Surreal Estate”, in the Chronicle, I’ve seen a blurb that says something like, “Carol Lloyd is writing a book about the Bay Area real estate market.” I cannot think of a LESS qualified person to write such a book. Undoubtedly, planned to fill it with plenty of stories about how every sh*tbox bungalow in the Bay Area will is the subject of frenzied and frantic bidding wars, ultimately selling for hundreds of thousands over the asking price, and all the crazy things those wacky, desperate buyers will do to be the winning bidder! I wonder if she’s having second thoughts about writing her book, now that the market finally shows signs of turning. She is a complete idiot.
Maybe Lloyd could place an ad for a real estate book “ghost writer” like the one txchick found today in Craigslist :
http://dallas.craigslist.org/wri/201798265.html
That Craigslist post is very funny …. You would think that any would-be author with half a brain would realize by now that, if they’re only now working on their book, the timing is way off for any more books trumpeting how to grab riches from the real estate boom. The MSM has had enough articles on the bursting of the bubble now that even people living under rocks know by now that this is not the path to riches it once was.
not to worry.
Neil Cavuto and crew at 1pm PST say no crash, leveling off, Buttner says people have to live someplace, others say with excess money people will invest in stocks, and high employment has never produced falling home prices.
Are they on another planet?
was Jim Rogers on the panel? I’m sure he wouldn’t go along with the “leveling off” nonsense.
Jim was not there. I’m surprised they didn’t have that other real estate expert with long hair or Barbara Corcoran.
I heard some panelists on Bloomberg parroting that Cavuto line earlier this week.
And what I realized is that these guys have not been paying attention. They haven’t been out there and seen that every last fool (and his mother) have already bought a house - if not two or three or four.
And not even fools - I can’t believe the number of “smart” people I know in the Bay Area who continued to buy into 2005.
But no one like that today is looking at buying. At least not soon.
Demand that was supposed to be greater today, or exist in the near future, was pulled into the recent past.
And I think that’s part of what these talking heads are missing.
Cavuto is just a blathering, sappy doughface and Brenda Buttner is just a talking head too happy to spout any corporation’s propaganda.
Pay no mind.
-
fyi - Brenda Buttner is married to that long-haired hippie Realtor, Tom Adkins.
http://www.newshounds.us/2006/01/28/ever_wonder_why_tom_adkins_deserves_to_be_on_bulls_and_bears.php#more
From the nightmare mortgages article at Business Week comes my very favorite quote of the week.
Meghan Bachman of Portland, Ore… “We want to own a bunch of houses,” says Meghan. “We’re hoping for early retirement.”
I nearly fell off my chair laughing when I read this. She was apparently commenting on how the option ARM is a tool for wealth management. Keep hoping Mehgan.
Just wait till she figures out how much work owning houses is. I’ve been in mine for 5 years. New roof and interior paint the first year, then a new water heater, then a new furnace, then new paint and gutters. I can barely handle my own house, having rental property is a JOB, and, compared to engineering, a hard one.
I’ll keep working, thanks.
I hope she buys more houses. Today, right now.
The old saw, ” Hire apprentices while they still know everything” comes to mind. She and hubby are in their 30’s, which explains it. Just don’t take investment advice from them.
I’m sick and tired of those “throw ins”. Don’t the sellers realize that the only ones who benefit from this practice is the agents since their percentage on a higher price yields higher comission? What’s in it for the sellers? Just lower the damn price and sell it fast and get over with. Jeezzzz….
“throw ins”
They are also taxable gifts. As such will increase your reportable income and push you into higher rates. IRS will be looking for the cash only this April.
Hey now, the state and municipality benefit from the higher prices too, since the higher price will result in higher property taxes. So really, as citizens, we all win with incentives.
Oh, all right, the GF who buys the house + incentive probably won’t feel like a winner when he realizes that he’s paying higher property taxes as long as he owns the home and more interest for the life his mortgage for a vehicle that he’ll probably only keep a couple years, but who cares about him, he’s an idiot anyway.
“‘She’s in for an education, all right,’ one agent, who asked to remain nameless”
When buyers go shopping … you gotta act like your Tyson stepping into the ring. You gotta knock that sucker like a hurrican.
* There is too much snobish arrgont sellers out there.
* They want too much for too little.
* They dont care for you well being.
Just Discount the prices like crazy… What you dont like my 35% lowball… Well then FU dumba$$….
This is the only attitude one can have in the bay area, otherwise they will rip u off…
OT
I am watching the news and these condo associations are telling this guy to take down his American Flag.
Talk about ass backwards. Take your damn flag down, but we will let 15 people live in that unit….. WTF
from our neighborly forum:
“Month of May - 112 Lis Pendings filed……51 of them had mortgage dates in 2005/2006
June - 166 Lis Pend. filed….70 have dates of 05/06
July (2 weeks only reported) 65 Lis Pend….31 have dates of 2005/2006
343 Total Lis Pend……..152 of the loans are not even 2 years old..That is 44%….
This is just one township….”
OT
From Yahoo! Finance…”Wall Street ended an erratic week with a big advance Friday after the Labor Department said employers added 128,000 jobs in August, signaling that an economic slowdown might not be as severe as some have predicted.” results in a pretty decent day, given it’s the Friday before a long weekend.
Given that the market saw this as “signaling that an economic slowdown might not be as severe as some have predicted”, then wouldn’t this indicate that the FED will be morely to raise rates again, which the market supposely HATES.
Questions: What gives? & How badly is the market looking for direction?
In the 1990s, we regularly heard of job growth in the 3-to-4 hundred thousand person range. And the US population was smaller then.
128,000 jobs is small beer. Barely keeping pace with the expansion of population.
And moreover, the “birth/death” index makes up most of that. All the government economists need to do is make different assumptions and the job growth disappears.
Given that the IRS collects income taxes from every employed person in america, don’t they know exactly how many people are working and what they are making. (bar the grey and black economies of course)
Yes its werid, the market is afraid the FED over did the rate increases and now is happy the economy is still doing well. Next week another story. These easy explainations are as bad as weather reports. Watch gold , oil and the bond yield curve.
I still bet on a recession. however if the FED gets heroic on interest rates like it did after the .com crash then I bet a dollar crash and inflation. I really hope they don’t do that to save RE.
I think the best incentive, next to a lower price, if for the seller to pay two points to buy the buyer a lower rate. This makes the payment more affordable for the buyer and the buyer gets to take the deduction for the points. Still smoke and mirrors, but better than a car, tv, etc.
http://www.safehaven.com/article-5772.htm
Interesting graph on housing and the S&P. Is it true? I don’t know.
I still bet we get a recession next year. bet meaning I am selling some stock mutual funds and buying bond mutual funds, plus I sold my house and rent. pretty big bet. am I right? Hope so
Cactus, I learned not to react emotionally on articles that make predictions such as Mauldin’s. I, myself, think oil prices will go sky high. But I’m keeping my 401ks and IRAs fully into growth stocks. My stocks have trailing stops on them all, so I’ll catch a big crash if we have another terror attack. I already sold off some of my stocks and put the proceeds into Vanguard Prime Money Market fund. I invest far more conservatively outside my tax deferred plans than when I invested in 2000. I have been into an Arizona municipal bond fund for several years. I recently got into Vanguard Long term corporate bond fund (VWESX) and dollar cost average into it. For now, I can live for several years without a job on my conservative investments. I don’t care about cycles when it comes to my 401ks and IRAs. I won’t need the money until I’m around 67, and that’s 20 years.
I’ve got everything in cash now and have urged my parents to do the same.
I don’t care if stocks are still returning 6 percent or so. I’ll take the 4% guaranteed returns, and the risk of reversal in the next year is too high.
Finally the housing market bubble has arrived in southern California. Realtors galore, but none will admit to the bubble bursting. Houses are not selling, inventory is growing, builders are worried, sellers can’t sell , large mortgages are hurt to meet.
A housing price correction is desperately needed in California.
Just saw price reduction in my area (Laguna Niguel) my first: House for sale where price was dropped drastically. They bought in 2004 and it is now priced below 2004 sale price. Looks like the Labor day massacre is beginning.
Wow, the correction is picking up in the OC.
This has been a real game of chicken, with sellers trying not to blink. This time round, they are playing chicken with a concrete wall and will have no choice but to lower prices in a big way in order to compete. Supply and demand works both ways.
Out of curiousity I checked out a house on FSBO site that was identified as an Agent/owner selling his personal residence. Has nice website link with more photos of home. One has last years snow on the ground with Real Estate Company sign in front. Not sure if this was his Real Estate Company or not but his house has been on the block for a while with some of the others even asking as low as $30k below than County listed Fair Market Value. His is way overpriced after comps check. Checked this agent/owners property listing out on the County’s Tax website using address for his tax records history . The house has a Tax Lien against it as he hasn’t paid any recorded taxes in almost a year. This clown is a Real estate agent and it appears he’s in serious trouble.
Banker type I know told me of a once wealthy husband/wife real estate agent/broker team are desperately trying to unload at least26 of their Flipper homes in the in the nearby areas. He also stated the old Chinese proverb that says “Even monkey’s..Fall out of trees”
This is in the midwest but the ground should be littered with RE agent Monkey Bodies very shortly ! Lowball is the keyword in RE planning tranactions for anyone who is brave enough or has to buy in this Jungle !
Looks to me that California sellers are still clinging to their selling prices, they don’t want to lose a penny, but they don’t realize that their house value is only on paper. As inventory grows, sellers will soon see that they have no choice but drop their prices….real low.
It’s just a matter of time and future buyers at this period are willing to wait. It’s a seller vs buyer war. The idea of giving away cars/trucks with the house only tells the buyer that the house is still overpriced. CA is overdue for a big house price correction and many will be shocked how low it will go.
Looks to me that California sellers are still clinging to their selling prices, they don’t want to lose a penny, but they don’t realize that their house value is only on paper. As inventory grows, sellers will soon see that they have no choice but drop their prices….real low.
It’s just a matter of time and future buyers at this period are willing to wait. It’s a seller vs buyer war. The idea of giving away cars/trucks with the house only tells the buyer that the house is still overpriced. CA is overdue for a big house price correction and many will be shocked how low it will go.