October 21, 2006

“They Don’t Want To Believe What Is Happening”

In Business Las Vegas reports from Nevada. “Former Nevada State Bank appraiser Patrick Egger with Stewart Title, recently gave real estate agents his take on the Las Vegas housing market and its future.”

“Egger said people make a mistake when they try to compare the existing market to 2004 and 2005 when there was rapid appreciation and homes sold quickly. ‘We keep trying to make the benchmark a record year, and it’s not fair,’ Egger said. ‘This will be the third best housing sales record in history. It won’t be as good as 2004 and 2005, but that’s not what the whole world wants to focus on.’”

“Normally, 60 percent of the market’s home sales are resales and 40 percent are new, but that has reversed because the incentives offered by homebuilders makes them more attractive, he said.”

“Even with more than 20,000 homes on the market, homeowners have been reluctant to give back equity. But he said prices are coming down, and that will help jump-start the market, Egger said. ‘They are greedy,’ Egger said. ‘They don’t want to believe what is happening. Mary’s house sold for $450,000, and they think their house is better and don’t want to leave money on the table.’”

“With a large number of investors and home buyers relying on low down payments and adjustable rate mortgages, Egger said it’s likely that the number of homes entering foreclosure will increase.”

“Although Las Vegas homebuilders are falling out of escrow and dropping options on land, that doesn’t mean there isn’t any land activity, said Richard Lee, VP of First American Title.”

“How quickly home builders move through their inventory will determine their next moves but Lee said conditions could last from six to 18 months. ‘It is just an adjustment of the market, not a collapse,’ Lee said. ‘It’s a realignment of how many years ahead of the curve they need to be. They don’t want to be six or eight years out, but maybe two to four years.’”

“A slowdown in the Las Vegas Valley housing market is starting to uncover a growing number of mortgage fraud cases.” “Investigators for the FBI, state Mortgage Lending Division and local law enforcement said complaints of mortgage fraud are picking up and will undoubtedly increase as the number of properties entering foreclosure continues to rise.”

“Many of the complaints involve falsifying home mortgage applications, including exaggerating incomes and claiming investment properties as a primary residence. ‘Mortgage fraud is just beginning to jump by leaps and bounds in this town,’ said Pete Dustin, a part-time white-collar crime investigator for Metro Police. Dustin said the number of complaints has risen from one or two a month to one or two a day.”

“‘When everybody is getting paid, nobody cares. The second they start instituting foreclosure proceedings, they pay attention. The lending institutions are going to start screaming,’ he said.”

“According to a foreclosure-tracker, one out of every 452 Nevada homes entered the foreclosure process in September, for a total of 1,919 properties beginning the process. The number is up 237 percent from September 2005.”

“Scott Bice, commissioner of the Mortgage Lending Division, said his office has 300 active complaints, many of them dealing with mortgage fraud. ‘This is as high a complaint log I have seen in three years in business,’ Bice said. ‘And I don’t see it slowing down. Right now with the slowdown in the market, all these little things are popping up. In a rising market, even if people inflate, everything bails them out.’”

“One of the most prevalent mortgage frauds committed is buyers stating on their loan applications that the home they’re purchasing is their primary residence, when they only intended to acquire it as an investment property and flip it, authorities said. In other cases, buyers misstated their income to secure mortgages or mortgage brokers coached them to doctor their applications as a way to secure loans.”

“Authorities cited cases they are investigating in which mortgage brokers, working in cahoots with buyers, submitted loan applications to various lenders for the purchase of more than a dozen properties. The buyer didn’t have enough income to qualify for that many loans.”

“‘The problem with mortgage fraud, and it’s true with white collar crime (in general), is that it pays well,’ Bice said. ‘The way the system works is that people don’t report fraud until there are losses. Mortgage fraud is that dirty little thing that people don’t talk about because once they start bringing it up, they are liable for their actions or losses.’”

“Steve Schauer, president of a local mortgage broker, said he’s not surprised authorities are investigating more fraud cases and pointed out those problems in the industry hurt legitimate borrowers who want to purchase a home. ‘The white lie in my opinion is more and more lenders are falsifying documents,’ Schauer said. ‘It doesn’t show up until the foreclosures happen and it hurts all of us.’”

“David Nanz, a special agent with the Las Vegas FBI who investigates white collar crimes, said one of the biggest causes of the mortgage fraud in Las Vegas is lack of due diligence by lenders. He said there have been cases in which a buyer will claim a certain income and the lender won’t even contact the employer for verification.”

“‘In my view, I think it is a rush to make loans,’ said Nanz. ‘The bottom line is they are trying to get as many loans as they can.’”




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78 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2006-10-21 07:25:02

From the first link:

‘The office vacancy rate has inched up to 9.9 percent during the third quarter and is likely to surpass 12 percent in the next year as more offices under construction come on line, according to a business advisory firm that tracks real estate trends. Demand for office space hasn’t been able to keep up with the nearly 3.8 million square feet of new inventory coming on line in the past year. In the third quarter, for example, the office inventory grew by 422,000 square feet but there was only a demand for an additional 272,000 square feet, Gordon said.’

‘The glut is going to worsen with the market reporting another 4.4 million square feet under construction, and another 6.8 million square feet is planned, Gordon said. Most of that construction is occurring where homes are being built on the periphery in the southwest, northwest and south Las Vegas Valley, he said. The reason there’s so much construction in the pipeline dates to market conditions 18 months ago when the projects were financed and designed, Gordon said. All of that has since changed.’

The Salt Lake Tribune:

‘Not so many years ago, houses in tiny Alpine with its tree lined streets and small town feel could be had for about $200,000. Today, the median selling price of more than $522,000 makes it impossible for many middle-income families to buy there. But Sharon Spratley, president of the Salt Lake Board, said she doesn’t think Utah’s real estate market will have a hard landing, because of the state’s continued high rate of job growth. ‘If we are slowing down, it’s nothing like what’s going on nationally,’ she said. ‘There’s still lot of job growth going on in Utah.’

‘Ogden and surrounding cities, for example, undoubtedly will benefit from an expansion by Amer Sports Corp., which plans to invest an estimated $3 million in establishing a downtown Ogden headquarters for a new division that will employ 230 people earning an average annual wage of nearly $68,000. That’s more than 300 percent of the Weber County median.’

Comment by Sobay
2006-10-21 07:51:11

- ‘But Sharon Spratley, president of the Salt Lake Board,
- said she doesn’t think Utah’s real estate market will have a hard landing,
- because of the state’s continued high rate of job growth.
- ‘If we are slowing down, it’s nothing like what’s going on nationally,’ she said.
- ‘There’s still lot of job growth going on in Utah.’

I didn’t realize that Utah was so strong with job growth!
We could use that here in So Cal, because these reports of added jobs must be ‘Retail’ jobs at $6-7.00 an hour.

- From now on we are going to send our illegals to Utah.

Comment by nick the wizard
2006-10-21 08:01:25

Dear home seller:
Please sell me the house. I promise to take extra care of the squirrels. In fact this Thanksgiving, I have a special recipe for squirrels.
ROAST SQUIRREL WITH ORANGE SAUCE

1 (1-2 lb.) squirrel from the tree in the front lawn.
1 orange, sliced into quarters
Salt, pepper & poultry seasoning

Preheat oven to 425 degrees. Wash squirrel in cold water and remove excess fat. Season the inside cavity and the outside of squirrel with salt, pepper and poultry seasoning. Place orange quarters inside squirrel and place in a shallow roasting pan. Cook in hot oven for 30 minutes, then remove squirrel from oven and prick breast with heavy tine kitchen fork to drain grease.
Turn oven down to 300 degrees and return squirrel to oven for 1 hour or 1 hour and 15 minutes until tender.

ORANGE SAUCE:

1/2 c. sugar
1 tbsp. wine vinegar
Juice of 2 oranges
1 bay leaf
1/2 tsp. thyme leaves
Salt & pepper to taste
1/2 c. Grand Marnier
Grated rind of 1 orange

1. In a heavy saucepan, combine sugar and wine vinegar. Cook the mixture over a medium flame until sugar melts and begins to caramelize.
2. Add the juice of 2 oranges, Grand Marnier and grated orange rind. Stir well and cook for five minutes.

3. Add 1/4 cup orange peel cut into julienne strips, cooked in a little water for five minutes and drained.

4. Correct the seasonings and pour over the squirrel on a serving platter.

Sincerely,

Hopeful home buyer.

 
Comment by nick the wizard
2006-10-21 08:07:52

Dear Home seller:
Please sell me your home. I promise to take extra care of the squirrels. In fact this thanksgiving, I have a special recipe just for them.
ROAST squirrel WITH ORANGE SAUCE

1 (1-2 lb.) squirrel from the tree.
1 orange, sliced into quarters
Salt, pepper & poultry seasoning

Preheat oven to 425 degrees. Wash squirrel in cold water and remove excess fat. Season the inside cavity and the outside of duck with salt, pepper and poultry seasoning. Place orange quarters inside squirrel and place in a shallow roasting pan. Cook in hot oven for 30 minutes, then remove squirrel from oven and prick breast with heavy tine kitchen fork to drain grease.
Turn oven down to 300 degrees and return squirrel to oven for 1 hour or 1 hour and 15 minutes until tender.

ORANGE SAUCE:

1/2 c. sugar
1 tbsp. wine vinegar
Juice of 2 oranges
1 bay leaf
1/2 tsp. thyme leaves
Salt & pepper to taste
1/2 c. Grand Marnier
Grated rind of 1 orange

1. In a heavy saucepan, combine sugar and wine vinegar. Cook the mixture over a medium flame until sugar melts and begins to caramelize.
2. Add the juice of 2 oranges, Grand Marnier and grated orange rind. Stir well and cook for five minutes.

3. Add 1/4 cup orange peel cut into julienne strips, cooked in a little water for five minutes and drained.

4. Correct the seasonings and pour over the squirreling on a serving platter.

Sincerely,

Hopeful Home buyer,

Comment by Gekko
2006-10-21 08:47:06
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Comment by incessant_din
2006-10-21 08:14:37

Utah’s economy is not good. It was in the crapper in 2002 when I last visited. Any job growth is construction related. It’s a circular argument, only making sense in the context of a pyramid scheme. Utah has a bubble as well, and naivete allows them to believe that they are different.

Comment by SD_suntaxed
2006-10-21 09:42:45

Agreed. The amount of construction going on there is nutty. Last time I passed through there, I was stunned at how many new housing developments I saw. What surprised me more was all the retail expansion into the area. Lots of chain restaurants and strip malls that looked like pieces of SoCal had sprung up, while overall wages haven’t increased substantially. As others have stated here before, a drive down I-15 is mostly RE related billboards. We’ll see how all this fares as the amount of incoming equity continues to decrease.

“Not so many years ago, houses in tiny Alpine with its tree lined streets and small town feel could be had for about $200,000. Today, the median selling price of more than $522,000 makes it impossible for many middle-income families to buy there.”

ROFL! Depending on whose numbers you use for median income in UT, someone is seriously smoking something if $35K/yr is supposed to buy you a house anywhere around that valley anymore. Scary neighborhoods are pushing $200K now. (Exotic or stated financing and money laundering opportunities not included; your mileage may vary.)

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Comment by nick the wizard
2006-10-21 08:15:04

Dear Home Seller:
Please sell me this home. I promise to take extra care of the squirrel. In fact this thanksgiving, I have a special recipe for them.

ROAST SQUIRREL WITH ORANGE SAUCE
1 (1-2 lb.) squirrel from the tree
1 orange, sliced into quarters
Salt, pepper & poultry seasoning
Preheat oven to 425 degrees. Wash squirrel in cold water and remove excess fat. Season the inside cavity and the outside of squirrel with salt, pepper and poultry seasoning. Place orange quarters inside squirrel and place in a shallow roasting pan. Cook in hot oven for 30 minutes, then remove squirrel from oven and prick breast with heavy tine kitchen fork to drain grease.
Turn oven down to 300 degrees and return squirrel to oven for 1 hour or 1 hour and 15 minutes until tender.
ORANGE SAUCE:
1/2 c. sugar
1 tbsp. wine vinegar
Juice of 2 oranges
1 bay leaf
1/2 tsp. thyme leaves
Salt & pepper to taste
1/2 c. Grand Marnier
Grated rind of 1 orange
1. In a heavy saucepan, combine sugar and wine vinegar. Cook the mixture over a medium flame until sugar melts and begins to caramelize.
2. Add the juice of 2 oranges, Grand Marnier and grated orange rind. Stir well and cook for five minutes.
3. Add 1/4 cup orange peel cut into julienne strips, cooked in a little water for five minutes and drained.
4. Correct the seasonings and pour over the squirreling on a serving platter.
Sincerely,

Home buyer.

 
Comment by lvrealprop
2006-10-21 09:47:02

Being from SLC I know that wages there simply are not good. Period. You just won’t make any money working in SLC or Utah unless you are a medical doctor and some lawyers. Hell I make more here in Vegas than alot of lawyers do in SLC. How these prices can be justified I don’t know. The tax burden in Utah is also high.

Comment by Bill
2006-10-21 09:55:13

Take a look at the inventory and price data for Salt Lake City. Right now prices have peaked and inventory is growing faster than anywhere in the country. SL might be 6 months behind, but their fate is the same as other bubble markets.

 
 
 
Comment by flatffplan
2006-10-21 07:30:32

commercial cracking ? 1 year lag, kinda like every time before………..

Comment by imploder
2006-10-21 09:21:17

yep

 
 
Comment by nikki
2006-10-21 07:31:38

Somebody(s) on this blog, sometime back, predicted we’d begin to see economists and other REIC patsies revert back to comparisons to 2003 and before…looks like that’s coming to fruition.

Comment by ajh
2006-10-21 22:25:17

Most of the things happening in the RE market were predicted on this blog sometime back :).

 
 
Comment by crispy&cole
2006-10-21 07:31:55

“One of the most prevalent mortgage frauds committed is buyers stating on their loan applications that the home they’re purchasing is their primary residence, when they only intended to acquire it as an investment property and flip it, authorities said. In other cases, buyers misstated their income to secure mortgages or mortgage brokers coached them to doctor their applications as a way to secure loans.”

_____________________________________________________

If they prosecute this - half of the LV REIC will be behind bars!

Comment by Ben Jones
2006-10-21 07:36:07

Right, unless they are given a free pass like Ameriquest. IMO the run of the mill loan people will get stung by the lenders:

‘Lenders, in order to recover losses, file lawsuits against mortgage brokers, escrow companies and title companies, officials said.’

‘Bice and others said the blame for mortgage fraud is shared by the perpetrators and the entire industry. He cited one recent investigation in which an elderly woman who bought a home in Summerlin had a credit score of 800 and $150,000 in the bank. She stated her income as $6,000 a month when she only made $900 a month in Social Security. She spent the $150,000 on upgrades to the house and couldn’t afford the $3,500 mortgage, prompting foreclosure proceedings.’

‘She got talked into it at the builder’s tract and everyone along the way was helping themselves out with her money,’ Bice said. ‘She should have known she couldn’t afford a house like that, but she got caught up in it.’

Comment by crispy&cole
2006-10-21 07:46:46

Ms. Bice is “victim” #5,285,431.

Part of me wants to feel sorry for her and find the REIC sharks who preyed on her and the other “victims”, HOWEVER, many “victims” like her found GF’s who took their spot before the music stopped and made millions. SO SCREW all of them!

Comment by Housing Wizard
2006-10-21 08:08:16

C&C …Right , screw all of them . They all make me sick .
What’s interesting is when people go into foreclosure they fink out on everyone that had a hand in their demise .It’s just human nature that when your going down you like to take everyone down with you . So, all you people who feasted off GF’s ,I hope you sleep well .

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Comment by txchick57
2006-10-21 08:13:38

Exactly. Tough shit. The old bag thought she was going to flip the POS off to someone else and make off with a nice chunk of change. Greed doesn’t end just because you have to wear Depends.

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Comment by Loonofficer
2006-10-21 08:41:59

Exactly. $150,000 in upgrades? On a $900/mo income just how much upgrading did this home need. Was the waterfall installed on the south or the west side?

‘She got talked into it at the builder’s tract and everyone along the way was helping themselves out with her money,’

So somebody told her she should do some upgrades, sell the house and make out like a bandit. She never once stopped to think why all these people had such an interest in her finances and it took a foreclosure for her to figure out what she can afford????

Give me an extended break.

 
 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2006-10-21 08:51:38

Right on Crispy!

At first I feel a bit sorry because pity is a natural emotion to these tales of hard luck and then I do a search of the appraiser records and find assholes marking up property purchased less than two years ago by 150% or more.

So so I say screw them and the horse they rode up on!

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Comment by We Rent!
2006-10-21 09:30:23

You know where to look if you want sympathy?

Dictionary entries:
sheep
ship
shit
SYMPATHY
syphilis
syphiloid…

 
Comment by FutureVulture
2006-10-21 10:52:01

Just make sure to point very carefully…

 
 
Comment by BanteringBear
2006-10-21 09:37:27

crispy&cole writes:

“HOWEVER, many “victims” like her found GF’s who took their spot before the music stopped and made millions. SO SCREW all of them!”

Exactly. The old bird was most certainly motivated by greed. If it could be proven that she suffered from dimentia, Alzheimers, or another condition, then I might feel differently.

Housing Wizard writes:

“So, all you people who feasted off GF’s ,I hope you sleep well.”

A great point. There is a lot of hypocrisy on this blog. Many have derided the GF’s shortly after selling to them. I wonder how they would feel after a devaluation of our currency…

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Comment by AZ_Cowboy
2006-10-21 15:11:26

Depends on whether you put the sale proceeds in gold or CD’s.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Max
2006-10-21 10:13:01

‘The white lie in my opinion is more and more lenders are falsifying documents,’ Schauer said. ‘It doesn’t show up until the foreclosures happen and it hurts all of us.’

More proof that the MBS market is underpricing risk. As the payments dry up, it’s the MBS holders who will be really screwed.

 
Comment by walt526
2006-10-21 10:32:16

Well unfortunately there isn’t that much room in most state prisons. Unless…

Maybe converting all these condos into white collar prisons will kill two birds with one stone!

 
 
Comment by Insider
2006-10-21 07:39:45

Loan fraud. If the fraud is tightly defined, as in any party from the loan officer to the buyer knowing they do not make as much as stated, then the fraud is rampant. Rampant, across the country.

A lender put the brakes on a deal we were closing just yesterday because of a last minute audit. Borrower claimed the purchase of a home was first home and they currently rent. Lender finds that the borrowers own the home they rent. Our escrow officer casually asks if they are first time buyer’s to which they eagerly say yes.

Two observations: how can a lender not see their ownership on the credit report? Stupid lender? Did loan officer and agent involved know? This mess will be sorted out on monday.

Comment by Loonofficer
2006-10-21 08:16:51

“Lender finds that the borrowers own the home they rent.”

… As in rent “out” or are paying rent on the home they own? Am I missing something?

Brings to mind a conversation I had with an “investor” about a year ago. He told me he was looking for a lender to “work with” who had fast service, good rates etc. He was looking to purchase several owner-occupied/ vacation home properties over the next few months. The tone of disgust his voice had when I told him how an underwriter would view the occupancy was comical. This was based on the fact that they were all within 10 miles of each other and that the area, Bakersfield, would most likely not be regarded as a resort community.
He really thought I was going to stick my neck out to get his business. Smug @$$#0le.
Sad thing is that he probably found someone to work with to do the fraudulent deals. Wish I had kept his info to see how he’s doing.

Comment by SD_suntaxed
2006-10-21 09:53:29

:lol:
But everyone wants to vacation in Bakersfield!

 
 
 
Comment by stanleyjohnson
2006-10-21 07:44:54

Heard just a few minutes ago long haired tom adkins on Fox news said “classic spring housing market will be here soon”.

Makes you wonder.

Comment by Curt
2006-10-21 07:47:53

They don’t call it “Faux” News for nothing!

Comment by Gekko
2006-10-21 09:03:15

-
Remember when CBS News/60 Minutes was rigging cars to explode to sensationalize the story? How about Dan Rather’s story on Bush’s military record?

Comment by Tortious
2006-10-21 09:26:32

That was Jane Pauly and NBC. By the way, Rather’s source was bad, perhaps a set up. Bush’s failed Air National Guard record was true. Bush has been a loser from the gitgo. He is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths for nothing. I was on flyiing status in the Air Force; Bush is full of it, they don’t let you walk away after the flight training without a vey good reason.

http://www.awolbush.com

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Comment by skip
2006-10-21 15:04:20

That was “Dateline NBC”…

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Comment by crispy&cole
2006-10-21 07:51:33

I stopped watching those Faux news Sat shows. The REIC crew, Corcoran, Adkins, etc… are so biased and unchallened it makes me want to smack somebody on the head.

So we are in Oct and its “Super Bowl rally”, “Spring Rally”, etc.. again - didn’t we hear this last year?

Comment by chris in la jolla
2006-10-21 08:53:51

What the heck is this “Super Bowl” rally I keep hearing about? IS it supposed to be that NFL Dads won’t go househunting while there are games to watch?

 
Comment by Gekko
2006-10-21 08:55:24

-
Jim Rogers, Ben Stein, and many others challenged that notion. I find that Fox News presents both sides of arguments - unlike CNN, NBC, ABC etc.

http://themessthatgreenspanmade.blogspot.com/2006/09/barbara-corcoran-then-and-now.html

Comment by crispy&cole
2006-10-21 09:03:28

All news is biased. Do you really believe that Fox news is indepenent?

I am a moderate Republican (Fiscal Conservative and Socially more liberal) and there is no way either party is worth CRAP. Both sides suck. Rep have control of all washington (Exec, leg and jud) and have spent like crazy and done little.

These guys are all bought and paid for and could care less about US. Keep watching Faux News or CNN or whatever and continue thinking they are looking out for you.

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Comment by Rich
2006-10-21 11:36:13

Are you tinhat guys something!!

Look the economy is BOOMING!! Very low unemployment! Wages rising! Low interest rates! Dow hitting RECORD levels! Energy prices falling! Best healthcare in the world!

The funny one is the DOW, adjusted for inflation (their cooked numbers 4%) the dow needs to be at 1500 to break even. If you 7-8% 1800 for DOW would be in order.

Wages rising an 2% inflation at 8-15%..

Where will interest rates go after this huge ammount of debt (5-8$ trillion) turns into bad loans?

 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2006-10-21 09:07:02

Oh come on. As staunch a conservative as I am, I don’t believe Fox News is “fair and balanced.” I DO believe, however, that it PROVIDES balance by offering the news and opinion you don’t get on CNN, NBC, ABC, etd.

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Comment by Gekko
2006-10-21 09:13:45

-
Fox News ain’t #1 for nothing.

Air America (Radio Al Franken) didn’t go BK for nothing.

The TRUTH sets you free.

 
Comment by crispy&cole
2006-10-21 09:28:08

LOL. Looks like you have become one of the Fox Sheeple. Oh well, you are not a REIC sheeple - one out of two isn’t bad.

 
Comment by Jas Jain
2006-10-21 09:30:54


“The TRUTH sets you free.”

ONLY if you can detect all the lies!!!!!!!!!!

Jas Jain

 
Comment by Tortious
2006-10-21 09:35:14

Faux News’ ratings have been in decline for some time. In any case, cable news viwer numbers are a small fraction of broadcast news. Peopaganda never set anyone free, it only gives them that illusion.

 
 
Comment by chicote
2006-10-21 16:21:56

This is the news that spent a day reporting on the Foley scandal and labeled him a democrat.

What a bunch of lying assholes.

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Comment by Jas Jain
2006-10-21 09:27:17


I watched the business slots this morning. On one of those the bullishness on housing, in two years, was unbelievable.

Jas Jain

 
 
 
Comment by builderboy
2006-10-21 07:47:05

“One of the most prevalent mortgage frauds committed is buyers stating on their loan applications that the home they’re purchasing is their primary residence,

Finger pointing,

WERE ARE THE GATE KEEPERS IN ALL THIS???

People lie, old news, which is why we have very big biz’s called credit reports and fico scores.

The banks are blaming the buyers because they had three homes and this new one was going to now be there prime residence?

I need my puke bucket.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2006-10-21 08:22:11

The lenders are suppose to be the gate keepers in all this . It’s just a given that borrowers will lie to get a better loan than they really deserve . It’s up to the lenders/underwriters to screen every loan application . The lenders failed in their duty .
If your paying some criminal punk mortgage agent 10 k to make a
loan you better check that loan even more .Let’s get serious .

Comment by pismobear
2006-10-21 10:06:28

Make all the loan officers return their commissions when a loan they processed and approved defaults. Guess what? Instant credible screening.

Comment by CA renter
2006-10-22 01:55:02

Good one, Pismo.

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Comment by Loonofficer
2006-10-21 08:30:31

“‘When everybody is getting paid, nobody cares. The second they start instituting foreclosure proceedings, they pay attention.”

It’s all grandstanding. The above statement is sooo true. When I worked for a mortgage lender they were a little more observant about appraised value, residency, reasonability of income, etc. When I worked for a broker I realized just how “creative” the mortgage industry is on the wholesale side.

“Self employed and need to go stated? No problem…. Just get me a letter from your CPA stating he’s done your taxes for the last couple of years. Forget about showing a business license, the letter will be fine. Oh, you don’t have a CPA….? Okay, I’ll find one for you…. it will cost you $300 though.”

“OK Mr. Jones let me get this straight: You want to buy a condo in Laguna Niguel but you’re not going to sell your single family residence in Costa Mesa? And you want this to be financed as owner occupied? Hmmmmmm, let me see: Is the condo near a golf course? How old are your kids? BINGO!!!! Downsizing…… You’re an empty nester whose going to rent out your sfr but who wants to live in a condo because you no longer need all that space to live in. Just write a letter explaining that and the underwriter wont have a problem.”

(Pre-emptive strike before the industry insider-haters chime in: No these are not conversations I was part of, merely conversations I heard).

Comment by builderboy
2006-10-21 08:58:10

I don’t know partners, guess I am just thinking back to property’s we have bought in years back,[ last mortgage loan about 10 years ago] Seems It would have been more fun at the time for the Taliban to hang me upside down and beat my feet than what we had to go though.

And to add, We had enough in the bank at the time to buy the damn property’s with cash.

Comment by Loonofficer
2006-10-21 09:01:45

I think we’re heading back to the good old days but i don’t think suspending you upside down will be necessary. The feet beating, though….

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2006-10-21 09:04:36

Good underwriter would want to see rental agreement on the SFR . Even better underwriter would not accept that the condo wasn’t a investment buy and would act accordingly . If they want to move to the condo some day fine ,but you have to make loans based on what he current situation is . Underwriter would need to see what the condo could rent for and give a loan accordingly to what the market rents would warrent or their income would need to qualify for both loans .
If I was the underwriter I would of required 25% down on the investment condo because I only care about the risk involved with someone owning 2 properties .

t

Comment by Loonofficer
2006-10-21 09:53:52

Yes but anybody can come up with a rental agreement. You or I could get a buy a pdf file on line, come up with names and signaturesand there you go…. the underwriter is thus duped. That’s how the broker/LO gets the primary residence financing on the condo….. No need for 25% down. With a high enough FICO you could go 100% financing and only pay closing costs out of pocket. As for two mortgage payments they just go stated, get 75% of the “proposed” rental income and so the income did not have to be stretched too high…. especially with a 45% dti allowance if the borrower got aconcurrent second mortgage.

There was a lot of this going on in the last few years

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2006-10-21 13:22:55

Yes ,loanofficer I know all the things they do to get loans by the underwriter . That is why in the final analysis you just make them put a bigger down payment on the second property in spite of the BS loan application ,fake rental agreement etc..

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by JTZ
2006-10-21 07:52:28

Laws and industry guidelines were disregarded, no wonder the market is a mess.

I’m concered that lenders will over react to the fraud and tighten credit rather than enfoce existing standards. Better enforcement will reward resoponsible consumers. Better policing will punish bad actors and clean up the industry.

Fraud and other factors contributing to market crash are mitigated by modest economic growth and job availability.

Economic growth depends on low energy prices.

I’m skeptical that oil prices will remain low enough to keep the economy rolling.

Let’s hope for a warm winter.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2006-10-21 09:37:28

Do we want people owning homes that can afford them or do we want this terrible unstable market that everybody and their brother is a flipper looking for a greater fool before they run out of money and go into foreclosure ?
I hope that some of the people who were owner occupied new homeowners make it and don’t go into foreclosure . I think alot of those people really wanted a home and were scared into buying in fear that they would be priced out forever . As far as greedy investors ,I don’t really care what happens to their stupid investments. Only in a mania will you get speculators buying at a market high with a 50% neg. cash flow . When I saw on Flip that House T.V. show that a lender gave a broke 24 year old a 500k loan when he managed a donut/coffee house , I knew the housing market was doomed .

Comment by Loonofficer
2006-10-21 10:16:24

What we all need is hope: Hope that, one day, working hard,
honestly , dilligently and ethically will reward us more than scamming the next guy. However, we live in a society which puts the get rich quick guy on a pedestal and ignores the silent toiler in the background. In part it is the American way (indeed the reason why I came to this country was for opportunity) but we are in the throes of social cannibalism. Now it’s every man for himself, survival of the fittest andi t’s reaching a dangerous extreme.
Yesterday’s prescriptions (a good education, pursuit of a profession or trade, working for an established company or starting your own) seem to mean less and less as time goes on. Never before has it meant so little or felt so temporary to be employed. You don’t know when and if your company will be bought or will implode due to corruption at the top. Meanwhile Joe Sixpack is reminded every day of some other guy who is so smart and wealthy yet apparently does so little.
So now it’s every man for himelf and every man wants his cut before evrything goes down the toilet. “Screw the next guy… he was dumb/unlucky, naive or just had bad timing. It could have easily been me, perhaps once it was, perhaps soon it will be but in the meantime I’m going to do what I feel I have to.” This seems to be the mindset that is so prevalent today and it bodes very badly for future generations being nurtured in such an enviroment.

End of rant.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2006-10-21 13:29:40

Loanofficer . Yep , well said . In fact ,I was talking to a 86 year old blind lady today who said the exact same thing that you just said and the lady is blind but she can see what you speak of .

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Comment by CA renter
2006-10-22 02:08:50

Loonofficer,
I couldn’t agree more. It’s one of the reasons I lay the blame primarily at the lenders’ feet and consider speculators just willing pawns. When people see CEOs, entertainers, brokers, agents and other useless “middlemen” being paid many millions per year while the working stiff is falling further and further behind with less pay, fewer benefits, less job security, etc.; it’s no wonder we see a nation of gamblers.

Most productive working people are just a few paychecks away from bankruptcy. Many DO NOT have flat screens, granite, stainless steel, SUVs, etc. They live normal lives and work full-time, but just can’t seem to make ends meet.

I believe the problem is due to the disappearance of various social safety nets. Once, you could rely on family; but now, there is divorce and the breakdown of traditional families — everyone out for themselves there. We’re losing good, union jobs with decent pay, benefits and job security to low-paid service-sector jobs without benefits.

People are left with no choice but to grasp at whatever opportunities come their way. Not looking good for the future if we don’t lose our American apathy and change things, and soon.

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Comment by PDXrenter
2006-10-21 07:55:31

“Normally, 60 percent of the market’s home sales are resales and 40 percent are new, but that has reversed because the incentives offered by homebuilders makes them more attractive, he said.”

This is the hidden cancer for Joe Q. Flipper. And it’s going to get even worse. Flippers who bought in 2005-2006 are going to hurt bad.

 
Comment by Lou Minatti
2006-10-21 08:21:16

“Investigators for the FBI, state Mortgage Lending Division and local law enforcement said complaints of mortgage fraud are picking up and will undoubtedly increase as the number of properties entering foreclosure continues to rise.”

I wonder if they’ve knocked on Casey’s door yet?

Comment by Max
2006-10-21 10:18:50

Probably not. There are hundereds, if not thousands of these fraudsters. The FBI only gets involved when the lender makes a complaint. The bank might be hoping the publicity will help get their money back.

 
 
Comment by Jas Jain
2006-10-21 08:38:55


There are ten references to FRAUD in various quotes.

“‘The bottom line is they are trying to get as many loans as they can.’”

This is like saying “they are trying to commit as many robberies as they can.”

The king is responsible for robberies and violent crimes. And that is how a king is to be judged.

The frauds quotes have been known to some of us for at least three years. And who is responsible for most of these frauds that were a result of widespread “reckless mortgage lending?” The Federal Reserve System; hence, my characterization of it as Fraudulent Reserve System. And what could Americans do to hold Fraudulent Reserve System responsible? Absolutely nothing! This is because FRS’ real masters – Bankrupters and Fraudsters of New York City (BFNYC) – have a total control of the Americans’ money, their economy and their political system. Americans have no real recourse to the biggest financial fraud committed in their history. Have you known a bigger group or organized dupes?

Jas Jain

Comment by txchick57
2006-10-21 08:56:32

JAS - OT - you might look at a short on the Sensex. I have a nice looking technical pattern which if it sets up, will make the spring dump look like a walk in the park.

Comment by Jas Jain
2006-10-21 09:22:12

I keep away from things that I don’t have lot of experience and Sensex is one of those things. I have such juicy short positions in the three major US Scam indexes that most wouldn’t believe. I like to stick to the tried and true.

Thanks, anyway.

Jas Jain

 
 
 
Comment by John Law
2006-10-21 08:44:03

the lawyers are going to make so much money off of the housing bust. just wait, lots more lawsuits are coming.

when a contractor can’t pay people, how lawyers do you think are hired? people with their deposits hire lawyers. the subs hire lawyers.

 
Comment by Gekko
2006-10-21 09:09:56

-

I happened to catch Dr. Rey “Dr. 90210″ and a ditzy 23 year old stripper from Las Vegas came in for new boob implants. Dr. Rey says to her - “You know I was 39 years old when I bought my first house and I understand that you are only 23 and you ‘own’ 3 houses!” So she tells him that “Well I make a lot of money in my business. I want to own 50 houses someday.”

Comment by bottomfeeder1
2006-10-21 10:45:21

sounds like vegas gal

 
Comment by walt526
2006-10-21 16:23:55

You would think someone in the adult entertainment industry would understand the concept of a depreciable asset…

 
 
Comment by Brad
2006-10-21 10:34:05

Right now with the slowdown in the market, all these little things are popping up. In a rising market, even if people inflate, everything bails them out.’”
————————————————————————-
so if you bought a house during the bubble, your purchase was in effect bailing out the fraudsters, keeping them afloat.

 
Comment by Brad
2006-10-21 10:38:02

“‘In my view, I think it is a rush to make loans,’ said Nanz. ‘The bottom line is they are trying to get as many loans as they can.’”
———————————————————————–
quantity over quality. According to an article linked last week hedge funds are the major buyer of sub-prime MBS. Some of these hedge funds will go down, and there will be other dominos.

 
Comment by mikey
2006-10-21 11:04:58

Invest in Fallout Shelters, the RE Fraud Crap is going to fly ALL over !

 
Comment by Joe Momma
2006-10-21 12:53:31

So the bottom line is capitalism and greed lead to massive fraud if there are no safe guards, oversight and regulation. How strange. I would have never guessed it!

Wait a minute. I thought regulation was bad?

Comment by Mark
2006-10-21 19:15:52

Regulation is what leads to corruption, as well as fascism. No decent person supports government or taxation.

The corrutption of Fannie Mae et al. will be much greater than anything else. Thank your government for that.

Now pay your taxes; Israel needs to build a wall and Africa needs AIDS medications.

Comment by CA renter
2006-10-22 02:13:54

No decent person supports government or taxation.
——————–
I hear there are places in Africa where you can basically be free of formal govt and taxation. Any takers?

 
 
 
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