November 5, 2006

“A Reality-Check With Further Declines Ahead”

The Post Standard reports from New York. “Onondaga County home prices fell during September, another sign that a buyers’ market is emerging after a couple of years during which sellers had their way. The median price of the 447 houses sold in Onondaga County during September was $127,000, according to data from the New York State Association of Realtors. That’s down 3.9 percent compared with September 2005, when the median was $132,200.”

“The number of home sales also declined. Some 521 houses were sold in September 2005, 14.2 percent more than this year.”

“Local Realtors say the market has shifted from the sellers’ market of 2005 - a record year for real estate sales, to a slower pace in which buyers have more clout to negotiate the price down.”

The Press Herald from Maine. “Looking for a smaller home, Cindy Benjamin fell in love last spring with a three-bedroom Cape in Windham. The house needed some work, but Benjamin figured she was in a good position. The Cape had been on the market since July of 2005, and the seller was anxious. Meanwhile, high inventories and falling prices had created a buyer’s market.”

“The seller was asking $269,000, but Benjamin was able to get it for $255,000. The seller even agreed to cover $5,000 in closing costs.”

“There was only one problem. Cindy Benjamin couldn’t sell her existing home. Seven months later, she’s still living in her four-bedroom Colonial. ‘I bought at the right time, but I’m trying to sell at the wrong time,’ she said.”

“It’s a common situation, real estate agents say. On one hand, they want top dollar for their valued home; on the other, they expect a bargain from the seller. That’s not realistic, say agents, who are trying to manage expectations in a changed market.”

“With many analysts predicting further declines in the months ahead, seller-buyers need a reality check, according to (realtor) Cathy Manchester in Gray. Start with price, Manchester advised. Don’t rely on comparable sales from six months ago to figure what your house is worth, she said. ‘You have to know what you’re up against for competition,’ Manchester said.”

“Honestly compare the competition to your house. Then ask yourself why someone would pay more money for your house, when there may be dozens of other candidates to choose from.”

“Your initial asking price is crucial, said Pat Rabidoux, a broker in Yarmouth. ‘You need to make sure the property you’re selling is a perceived value,’ Robidoux said.”

“Two years ago, when the market was tight, buyers might have overlooked an older roof or leaky plumbing. Now they’re more demanding, Robidoux said. Both Robidoux and Manchester agree, however, that it rarely makes sense to spend big money to redo a kitchen or finish the upstairs.”

“‘You’re not going to get that money back in the sale,’ Robidoux said.”

“When sales were brisk, sellers might agree to a contingency sale. With sales slow and plenty of inventory, that practice has fallen out of favor. ‘Sellers now realize that’s a waste of time,’ said Leonard Scott, owner of the Assist-2-Sell agency in Falmouth.”

“Benjamin initially had listed her Colonial for $425,000. After no action, she recently switched to Assist-2-Sell and is asking $378,900. She got an offer right away, but the potential buyers wanted to make the sale contingent on selling their house. ‘I told them I just couldn’t take it off the market for 30 days,’ she said.”

“Deborah Draper of Gray i’s in the process of selling a 2,196-square-foot, contemporary Cape and buying a smaller home in town. Draper, who has been working with Cathy Manchester to sell the home, recognized that her property wasn’t worth what it might have been a year ago. With Manchester’s advice, she listed it in September at $265,000 and within six days had the first of three offers.”

“But the process wasn’t over. One potential buyer couldn’t get financing. As the process continued, Draper turned down contingency requests and had to lower her price after discovering problems with the septic system. She currently has the home under contract for $256,000, and she agreed to the buyer’s request to pay $5,000 in closing costs.”

“Meanwhile, Draper had spotted a two-bedroom ranch at an open house. The home had been reduced since August, from $214,000 to $199,900. It was still available when her home went under contract. She expects to close this week for $195,000.”

“What Draper’s situation shows, Manchester said, is that seller-buyers need to price their homes aggressively in this market. ‘It costs a lot to have a house sitting vacant,’ she said.”

The Asbury Park Press from New Jersey. “Zuhdi Karagjozi stood outside the courtroom in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Trenton last Monday morning, looking defeated. As the owner of Kara Homes Inc., all he ever wanted to do was sell homes and make people happy, he said more than once. He just needed the banks to work with him so that everyone could come out even.”

“For Karagjozi, it has been a remarkable turnaround. The East Brunswick-based home builder, the fastest growing in the nation just a few years ago, is in tatters. Banks and suppliers are clamoring to get paid, home buyers might lose hundreds of thousands of dollars, and Karagjozi has been reduced to an observer as others try to salvage his company.”

“In retrospect, people who worked with Karagjozi said, the scene at the courthouse could have been avoided. The company borrowed too much money at too high an interest rate, they said. And it couldn’t generate enough cash to pay its mounting bills. When the real estate market softened, even a little, the business collapsed.”

“‘His luck ran out,’ said Jonathan Bristol, a Morristown lawyer representing one of Kara’s lenders in the bankruptcy case and a friend of Karagjozi’s. ‘He rode the crest and took a long, hard fall.’”

“Lori Finley signed a contract for a home at Winding Run at Little Egg Harbor in August 2004. She deposited nearly $92,000. Visiting the construction site one day, she said she noticed the house was being built the wrong way; the giant windows weren’t looking out onto the woods, but onto her neighbor’s house. Her stomach dropped.”

“A year later, with the home not finished, Finley decided to pull the plug, and she asked for her money back. Finally, last March, she drove to the company’s headquarters, sat in the executive office and refused to leave until she was reimbursed.”

“After a Kara official gave her a check, Finley said she drove to her bank, cashed it and deposited it. The check, to her relief, cleared. ‘If I did not get in my car and take this into my own hands I would have been one of the poor people who lost all that money,’ Finley said.”

“Marianne Yetto of Brooklyn, bought a house at Horizons at Woodlake Greens in Lakewood. The Kara house was 85 percent finished and she sold her Brooklyn house, when Kara filed for bankruptcy. ‘I am in such a dilemma,’ said Yetto, who has put down $75,000 toward her home.”




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60 Comments »

Comment by Wes Chester
2006-11-05 08:34:07

“That leaves time to locate the right house at a good price - and there should be plenty to choose from this winter, he said”.

True enough there will be plenty to choose from. But only time will tell if the price is good. Come a year from now, it will be interesting to train some 20-20 hindsight on this statement.

With the $40,000 that the RE industry is now putting into advertising come two things. First, $40 million worth of ads. Second, there will likely be more and more statements in the press that “this is a good time to buy”. By dangling the ad dollars in front of the MSM, particualrly local newspapers, the RE industry will have one more carrot to have the MSM help their cause.

Comment by Ozarkian from Saratoga, CA
2006-11-05 12:16:36

Yikes, maybe your last point is the REAL reason for the ad campaign.

 
 
Comment by Vmaxer
2006-11-05 08:39:47

“What Draper’s situation shows, Manchester said, is that seller-buyers need to price their homes aggressively in this market. ‘It costs a lot to have a house sitting vacant,’ she said.”

Sellers need to learn to sell their house first for whatever the market will bear, then negotiate just as hard when they become the buyer.

Comment by krazy_canuck
2006-11-05 09:38:36

Do drink your coffee with Km_er

 
 
Comment by DC_Too
2006-11-05 08:44:59

Good article from Maine. Any posters live there? I’d love an unvarnished view of what is going on Down East.

I’ve been watching a coastal hobby farm for some time on an agency website - started at 220K about 8 months ago and has been cut, twice, to 149K and still hasn’t sold as far as I know. I thought coastal property only went up? What gives?

Comment by death_spiral
2006-11-05 08:49:06

It’s starting to look like ass-whacking time for all these RE moguls who thought house flipping really was a great career move. Party on, you idiots!

 
Comment by az_lender
2006-11-05 09:03:11

Have posted this info a few times but am motivated to share it w/ you, Wes Chester. After following some inventory-buildup blogs in April/May i panicked and sold a small cottage with a view (a glimpse, actually) of Penobscot Bay. I was extremely lucky that the Realtor who had sold me the house had one perfectly-fitting customer who wanted exactly the kind of dumpy little place I owned. Since I owned it outright, I was willing to provide 85% financing myself (let’s see if I have to do a repo!!!)
My next move was to a “spec” house, a vacant McMansion right on the waterfront, bank eating the builder for lunch. The builder and his brother are concerned that I keep the place looking nice for possible showings. That’s swell, I will suffer some inconveniences for the privilege of living in 2500 sq ft waterfront at a price of $1000/mo. Also the house has an interesting design. I can’t (of course) tolerate a whole winter in ME so will leave today on an exporatory trip to FL to take advantage of other builders being eaten for lunch. RE action here in Maine is extremely slow. All the “FOR SALE WATERVIEW” signs make it obvious that we had an investor problem here too.

Comment by az_lender
2006-11-05 09:09:01

Sorry, Iguess the poster to whom I was replying was DC_too, not Wes Chester.

 
Comment by bradthemod
2006-11-05 09:38:00

In late spring/early summer time-frame, we took a drive along the coast from Kittery to Portland, ME. It seemed like every other coast property had a for-rent sign up. I thought it was awfully ugly to see that many signs up first of all. Then I thought it was peculiar that that many properties were not booked for summer by then. I suppose Bostoners could amble up Route 1 and jot down a phone number and get a rental on short notice, but the fact is most people plan vacations many months out and not on that short of a notice. So, this was ~ 4 months ago. At the time, I did not know about this blog site and the gathering storm of discontent brewing. I suspected there were people that balked at the cost of houses but did not think it was growing much. I guess I thought everybody bought in to a house and had to suck up the monthly mortgage and stress of it all. I am in awe of az_lender getting such a good price on rent. Portland, ME thinks it is different here apparently.

Comment by az_lender
2006-11-05 17:16:41

I think part of my good luck was just timing, desperate landlord, but another part of it is, these guys think they might sucker me into buying the GD thing. I did tell them at some very early point that I might consider buying their debt, because they are paying above-market rates, but I told them a couple of days ago that the deteriorating situation has made me less enthusiastic about buying their debt. Let’s see how long they put up with me…right now they’re happy I’m paying to heat it.

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Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-05 09:03:42

There were some posters from Maine a few months ago, but they were generally bulls who were subsequently gelded by changing market conditons, and never heard from again.

Comment by Portland Mainer
2006-11-05 09:35:11

I wouldn’t buy today because the minus 1% price decline witnessed thus far could drop to minus 10% - and considerably more in the overbuilt ski condo market. Overall though, the trend line here is up. We simply get too many folks from “away” (Boston, NY, NJ and California, etc.) who are selling their high priced digs and moving in here, bringing their own riches and/or gigs. We have one of the highest in-migration rates in the U.S. And at least for now, this infusion of outsiders is making things better for the types who are moving in from away. Many of the locals are getting priced out or taxed out and constantly bitch and moan. But for the outsider who arrives here, it’s relatively dirt cheap and every year there are more and more cultural improvements. Many of the good school disyticts around Portland have put real caps on building permits and are acquiring all kinds of park lands, so that there will always be lrage swaths of nature 10 minutes outside the “city”.

For these folks from the high priced places, it’s like Superman coming to earth from Krypton - they marvel at their new economic power. A person with savings that might be termed modest in California finds he is “rich” in a place like Maine. As a result, the typical retiree coming into the Portland area from away also buys or rents a warm weather getaway. They can afford it and our winters can really get to you even if you absolutely love to ski, snowshoe, etc. No matter how much one likes this stuff, you just can’t turn off the danger alert that constantly flashes from the inner reccesses of our reptilian brain when the temperatures drop below 32 degrees and become life threatening.

Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-05 10:10:42

“Overall though, the trend line here is up.”

When a wave motion propagates from its source, the overall trend is up later on in more remote locations. This is true for physical and financial tsunamis alike.

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Comment by Portland Mainer
2006-11-05 10:54:28

The people coming in are living in the houses - and investment by bulders is slowing down markedly. I see it just by driving around. Overall, Greater Portland is a healthy market compared to the overbuilt places rife with overly optimistic builders and flippers. Our home values didn’t appreciate % wise like many others. And they didn’t appreciate anywhere near as much in absolute dollars. Couple that with a nice quality of life and they just keep coming and coming.

Single family home inventory figures based on Portland, Falmouth, Cumberland and North Yarmouth indicates inventory hasn’t changed much in the last year:

11/3/05 425
12/5/05 406
1/3/06 352
2/2/06 344
3/3/06 345
4/4/06 351
6/4/06 409
7/22/06 477
9/9/06 467
11/5/06 437

 
Comment by Portland Mainer
2006-11-05 11:02:23

Prices never gotcrazy here in % or absolute terms. Builders have naturally showed restraint and again, in-migration almost leads the nation. And the people are living here, not absentee landlords. If you see my post below, you’ll see that inventory has barely budged in a year. Houses are coming on, but others are being sold. And many have just decided to wait for an upturn to try and sell. Flipping never became a thing here.

The vacation home market - particularly ski condos could have some definite trouble. But Portland isn’t going to be rattled much and will eventually move up nicely. My own thought is declines will abate by summer 2007 and by 2010, prices here will resume their slow but staedy upward climb. People buying in 2008 and 2009 will do fine. And so will people buying now, if they have a long enough time horizion. I just personally would not buy now, because we’re happy where we are.

 
Comment by Captain Credit
2006-11-05 11:23:45

“But Portland isn’t going to be rattled much and will eventually move up nicely.”

I detect a bit of “prices will go down but not my area” to these words. If this runup is anything like that of the 80’s, Portland WILL get hammered.

 
Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-05 12:37:01

I detect that Portland Mainer owns at least one, and possibly more homes, in his local market.

 
Comment by Captain Credit
2006-11-05 12:52:26

My thoughts exactly. And an very uninformed about ME to boot.

 
Comment by Portland Mainer
2006-11-05 14:25:25

We own one home here and we live in it. It’s our only home. We have 4,000 sq feet plus a huge bone dry basement and huge attic. Our mortgage is $150,000. Could care less if prices drop - which they won’t where we live by any more than 10% and that would be a lot.

We’ll sell this upon retirement in say 10 years and almost certainly will be able to buy two condos with the proceeds - one here and one in some warm weather getaway location.

This house (which is on a golf course and in a top school district in one of the top 2-3 most affluent towns in the state) would easily cost four times as much in some of the pricy areas elsewhere in the U.S.

As different a market as this is from say LA, the Bay Area or the NYC burbs, it is equally as different from the depressed interior of the state, such as Fryeburg.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Portland Mainer
2006-11-05 09:09:50

I’m not sure about Downeast - do you mean past Acadia, i.e., “downeast” of Acadia? I believe there are still great values to be had in Washington County on deepwater ocean frontage. It’s gone up in the last few years, but is still dirt cheap compared to U.S. oceanfront in most places.

The problem is it’s pretty remote as you know, if this is the area you are considering. And you better bring your own money or income source because there are virtually no good jobs.

We looked there in 1999 and could have bought 4 acres of deep water frontage on Englishman’s Bay right outside of Jonesport for $125,000. I’m guessing it already has doubled, but may very well be sliding.

As you know, the ocean down there is very cold and often foggy. Consequently, many people who have bought oceanfront end up eventually looking for property on nearby inland lakes. Unlike the ocean, they usually don’t get the fogs and are very swimmable in the summer. Also, they’re infinitely safer to boat on. If the lake is fairly proximate to the coast, you can have the best of both worlds.

If you do decide it must be oceanfront, ask around as to where the “fog line” is. This is the typical boundary of what gets fogged in on a peninsula. If you buy on a peninsula - and much of the Maine coast downeast is peninsulas, I’d recommend being above the fog line.

What general area are you considering?

Comment by Captain Credit
2006-11-05 10:39:09

Fryeburg, ME native here living in NYC/NJ. I might return to ME 2x/year but the history of in/out migration has always come down to this; as Portland Mainer states, these inbound nose pickers think they have it made when they see how “cheap” it is here. That “cheap” comes at a very high price though. The oppressive winters are not a part of their thinking when they land here. It’s only after 2 or 3 especially harsh winters does it dawn on their narrow little minds that they might have made a mistake. Hence, the process of extricating themselves from the situation they’ve bound themselves to begins. Eventually, they sell, almost always at a loss so to relocate to a temperate climate. I watched it happen time and time again growing up there. It’s good for the REIC, bad for those “supermen” (super losers).

Comment by Portland Mainer
2006-11-05 11:09:27

Yes, the winters are rough in Fryeburg due to its interior location and higher elevation. With all due respect, Portland attracts a far more affluent and sophisticated out of state in migrant than rural places like Fryeburg. There’s virtually no culture in Fryeburg, whereas Portland has at least one of everything. In fact, it has the second highest restaurants per capita, following San Francisco.

The affluent retirees coming to Portland these days typically winter in the little latitudes - which is what we eventually plan to do - although we’ll stay her through around Feb 1, as we do enjoy snow sports and Christmas in New England.

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Comment by Captain Credit
2006-11-05 11:18:36

You draw a distinction between the two locations yet the same trend has always held irrespective of location. There is just more of it on the coast. Portland has been importing fruits and nuts from Boston, and worse yet, NY/NJ for as long as I can remember and the end result is always the same. They leave less than 10 years later with less money. I have little sympathy for them as there are even dumber replacements for the previous round of imports that cut their losses and ran.

 
 
 
Comment by DC_Too
2006-11-05 13:28:08

Thanks you guys for the insight.

General areas of interest are mid-coast, maybe Washington County. Problem with the latter, as Portlander has pointed out, is that it is innaccessable - too isolated.

GF’s family is from York County - she knows the ins and outs of Maine. I spent over ten years in N. New England and am well acquainted with long, dark winter.

The problem is cost - I don’t think even a worst case scenario would make the southern coast affordable. Tell me if I’m wrong, but of the families I knew growing up with summer places there, all were legacies from 19th century Robber Barons, literaly - houses passed down over generations and rented a month or two a year to cover taxes and maintenance. If things get slammed further up I may be a buyer, we’ll see. Keep us posted.

Comment by Portland Mainer
2006-11-05 14:40:19

A town that I can’t say enough good things about is Brunswick. It’s home to top ranked Bowdoin College, is very sophisticated and is no more than 30 minutes into Portland. There’s lots of culture due in large part to the college and there are also amenities such as good shopping and necessities such as hospitals. The twon sits on the ocean and is right next to the shopper’s paradise of L.L. Bean’s home twon, Freeport. It’s very close to some spectacular parks such as Popham Beach and Reid. They have a Naval air station which is closing down in a few years. I just had a long conversation with someone who follows these things and he feels that in the end, the town will prosper as new uses are found for the base. In the meantime, one would think a decent percentage of the large civilian workforce on the base will leave town and prices should remain soft for some time to come.

We live much closer to Portland and enjoy the 10 minute commute to work in Portland. But if we were not commuting to Portland, Brunswick would be a place we would look at long and hard. Long term, I’d have to be as bullish on Brunswick as I am Portland. I think it’s a little early to buy in terms of price declines which have not fully played out yet in my opinion. A year from now could be a great time if prices drop.

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Comment by DC_Too
2006-11-05 17:17:06

I have it on very good authority that BNAS pumps about $330 million per year into the local economy. Brunswick is not going to “rebound” very quickly from that loss. No way. I have spent more than my fair share of time in communities with closed bases - it is ugly. Bowdoin is not going to pick up the slack.

In another five years we will know how goes Brunswick.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by RE_ONLY_GOES_UP
2006-11-05 08:48:30

“‘His luck ran out,’

Please, give me a break. It is all about the greed.

I am noticing a trend. There appears to be more and more articles about this housing decline. This is not going to be fun for many many folks.

Comment by Gekko
2006-11-05 08:52:24

-
of course it was all skill on the way up and bad luck on the way down.

2006-11-05 09:38:08

Kind of like the teaching profession. If the kid does well, it’s because of the kid’s great teacher; if the kid does badly, the kid’s an unteachable rotten apple.

 
 
Comment by boulderbo
2006-11-05 09:38:00

1 million to 1 billion in four or five years, how many other “rising star” builders are stashing assets as we speak. i drove weld county, colorado to see vista point and anthem developments for a builder needing emergency money. the developments are in no-mans land east of boulder and north of denver. when you drove in, it immediately hit you that they were ghost towns, entire streets of dhhorton homes marked “available”. none were locked (i walked right in to marvel at the granite and stainless) and could find no one at the sales center, grim at best. can’t imagine that as a buyer you couldn’t smell the burning flesh when you went to look at these homes.

Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-05 12:38:47

‘…hit you that they were ghost towns, entire streets of dhhorton homes marked “available”. ‘

boulderbo,

I wonder whether you are aware of how much your comment sounds like something Janet Yellen recently said about “ghost towns” out in the southwest desert?

 
 
 
Comment by nova_renter
2006-11-05 08:50:16

What is the advantage for a seller to give $5k in closing cost rather than just lower the price? A lower price would reduce seller’s obligation to the broker and possibly save some taxes.

Comment by ric
2006-11-05 09:15:22

buyer has no money

2006-11-05 09:40:03

Nailed it. When someone I know nervously sold their rental, the buyer couldn’t even bring $3K to the table. 100% financing. There really are NO buyers left.

 
 
Comment by incessant_din
2006-11-05 09:21:17

Simple. You greatly increase the available buyer pool. You allow people with no cash saving ability to join the party. Once the house clears escrow, you are home free. Hadn’t intended the pun, but I kind of like it.

Comment by nova_renter
2006-11-05 09:47:42

Fair enough.

But assuming that a buyer has enough cash for a 20% downpayment and closing, what are the pro’s and con’s of negotiating price vs. fees?

As a (potential) buyer, I consider the following advantages of the lower price (and paying the fees myself):
1. Possible property tax reduction
2. Greater tax deduction in the year of purchase
3. More straightforward handling of tax forms

Higher price coupled with subsidized closing costs also has some advantages:
1. Higher tax basis when I am ready to sell
2. Keeping more of my cash in return for slightly higher payments over 30 years

Have I missed anything?

Should I be concerned about “soft” issues:
1. Seller’s pride at being able to negotiate a higher base price?
2. RE agents’ concerns about comps?

Thanks

Comment by chris in la jolla
2006-11-05 10:20:41

A big advantage is that it allows you to maintain your reserve savings. You may have the money for the down payment, but after that and the closing costs, how much cash do you have left over?

I’m sure some people would argue with me about paying takes interest on those closing costs over 30 years, but I think most people end up buying as much house as they can afford, and things are pretty tight at the end. It would be a great comfort to me to have an additional $10K stashed in the bank after getting into such a big obligation. Of course, nothing wrong with waiting until you save up another $10K either.

I wouldn’t be concerned about comps. If the seller is starting at a more-or-less reasonable price, then you are just negotiating what goes into that price. If the seller is asking for 50% over any recent comps and intends to kickback $50K cash to you out of escrow, then the lender would have a problem with that. I’m not even sure if that is legal.

Everything has to be arm’s length: The seller agreeing to pay all closing costs and to buy down the buyer’s interest rate is very common and won’t raise any eyebrows.

(And to hell with seller’s pride. If they won’t consider a reasonable offer, just move on to the next house.)

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Comment by chris in la jolla
2006-11-05 10:22:12

Ooops:

paying takes interest = paying taxes and interest

 
Comment by eastcoaster
2006-11-05 11:26:12

I agree with you.

 
Comment by ric
2006-11-05 11:53:47

i.e. - buyer has no money

 
 
Comment by implosion
2006-11-05 11:40:38

100% financing = option to walk if necessary

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Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-05 12:40:53

“Have I missed anything?”

Yes. Nobody in his right mind would buy with 20% down when so much of the market is driven by those with no skin in the game.

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Comment by Portland Mainer
2006-11-05 08:53:31

The Greater Portland Maine market is pretty stalled and has been pretty stalled for the past year as can be seen by the following single family home inventory figures based on Portland, Falmouth, Cumberland and North Yarmouth:

11/3/05 425
12/5/05 406
1/3/06 352
2/2/06 344
3/3/06 345
4/4/06 351
6/4/06 409
7/22/06 477
9/9/06 467
11/5/06 437

Comment by Jon
2006-11-05 13:18:24

I’m surprised inventory is down 10% from the high in late July. I’m guessing that many of those will come back on the market in the spring, though.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-05 09:01:13

“There was only one problem. Cindy Benjamin couldn’t sell her existing home. Seven months later, she’s still living in her four-bedroom Colonial. ‘I bought at the right time, but I’m trying to sell at the wrong time,’ she said.”

She is trying to sell at a higher price than the market will bear.

“It’s a common situation, real estate agents say. On one hand, they want top dollar for their valued home; on the other, they expect a bargain from the seller. That’s not realistic, say agents, who are trying to manage expectations in a changed market.”

And she will not listen to Realtors’ (TM) advice; maybe she is having a hard time figuring out they are actually speaking the truth for once?

“With many analysts predicting further declines in the months ahead, seller-buyers need a reality check, according to (realtor) Cathy Manchester in Gray. Start with price, Manchester advised. Don’t rely on comparable sales from six months ago to figure what your house is worth, she said. ‘You have to know what you’re up against for competition,’ Manchester said.”

Didn’t David Lereah have something to say about a reality check a couple of months ago?

“Honestly compare the competition to your house. Then ask yourself why someone would pay more money for your house, when there may be dozens of other candidates to choose from.”

This is all the more true when some of those dozens of candidates may be new homes at similar prices, but with cars and trips thrown in as incentives.

“Your initial asking price is crucial, said Pat Rabidoux, a broker in Yarmouth. ‘You need to make sure the property you’re selling is a perceived value,’ Robidoux said.”

This sounds to me like an untested theory — a sort of Realtors’ (TM) urban legend. If I am the a buyer, why do I give a r@t’s @ss about the seller’s initial price (maybe asked fourteen months ago when market conditions were “different”)? All I care about is the price I have to pay to buy a given home today versus the prices of comparable homes today and in the foreseeable future. Last year’s prices are ancient history.

2006-11-05 09:43:12

I need a further discount to compensate me not only for the lack of interest my now spent cash won’t bring, but also the risk I’m taking investing in a depreciating asset. If your house is worth X, I want an additional 20% off for my opportunity cost and risk taking, at minimum.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2006-11-05 10:04:40

Good way of putting it Suzanne IRT….This is exactly why the buyers aren’t there . A seller has to give a discount for the buyer to take the risk to buy right now ……. Decline in value risk discount ….. DNVRD RISK he he

 
 
Comment by jd
2006-11-05 12:12:59

“The seller was asking $269,000, but Benjamin was able to get it for $255,000. The seller even agreed to cover $5,000 in closing costs.”

She bit at less than a 6% price reduction.

Maybe it was the incentive of the $5,000 in closing costs that hooked her.

 
 
Comment by ronin
2006-11-05 09:13:43

“When sales were brisk, sellers might agree to a contingency sale. With sales slow and plenty of inventory, that practice has fallen out of favor…”

When sales were brisk, sellers have no motivation to agree to a contingency sale. With sales slow and plenty of inventory, that practice has become something sellers increasingly accept.

Comment by incessant_din
2006-11-05 09:26:52

Absolutely. I saw that here in CA. That’s why when the music stopped so many people ended up with two houses (accidental speculator land-barons). People sick of getting outbid suddenly made the leap to bid high and remove contingencies on a marginal house. I know a few people who made rash moves despite the warnings. At least they aren’t upside down yet on their new “investment property” (their former house).

Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-05 12:43:14

The Accidental Speculator — that would make a good book title!

 
 
 
Comment by ronin
2006-11-05 09:16:06

“…all he ever wanted to do was sell homes and make people happy…”

and strive for world peace

Comment by robin
2006-11-06 01:05:32

Got $100k in incentives from KB or other; stiil want to sell old home at 2005 prices! Can’t have it both ways!

 
 
Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2006-11-05 09:39:33

“It’s a common situation, real estate agents say. On one hand, they want top dollar for their valued home; on the other, they expect a bargain from the seller. That’s not realistic, say agents, who are trying to manage expectations in a changed market.”

But- but… How can this possibly be happening!?! After all, ‘Now is a great time to buy OR sell a home’- my Realtor said so!!

 
Comment by stanleyjohnson
2006-11-05 10:07:31

This is a must to print out and paste to wall right above your computer screen or on your refrigerator.

You got to love these dolts.

http://www.realtor.org/files/home_buyers___sellers/good_time_to_buy_ad.pdf

 
Comment by Recovering Homeowner
2006-11-05 11:45:16

“Two years ago, when the market was tight, buyers might have overlooked an older roof or leaky plumbing. Now they’re more demanding,” Robidoux said.

I’m getting tired of being called names. According to the NAR, as a potential buyer it’s my fault that the market is plummeting, since I won’t “get off the fence” and purchase a home. Now this Robidoux character says I’ve gotten more demanding because I won’t accept leaky plumbing or other major house flaws.

The largest purchase of my life… and I get insulted for thinking it over and having standards. I think I’ll stick with renting until sellers decide begging is in order (along with fixing every flaw and dropping the price 50%).

Why is it OUR (potential buyers) fault?

Comment by ric
2006-11-05 12:12:55

“Two years ago, when the market was tight, buyers might have overlooked an older roof or leaky plumbing. Now they’re more demanding,” Robidoux said.

Let me rephrase that a bit. “Two years ago, when the market was tight, buyers were so stupid that they overlooked an older roof or leaky plumbing. Now they’re more sane.”

Comment by az_lender
2006-11-05 17:28:35

Another rephrase: “Two years ago, when the market was tight, buyers regarded an older roof or leaky plumbing as a ‘flipping’ opportunity. Now they know Flipping Day has come and gone.”

 
 
Comment by Haggis
2006-11-06 04:17:06

Bubbles are emotional beasts - everyone sitting on a rising asset is a genius and everyone expressing disbelief at the ‘value’ is a spoiler.

It wasn’t so long ago that the RE industry was encouraging buyers to write ‘personal letters’ to the vendor to ‘prequalify’.

Who cares. The buyer is now (or shortly will be) in the drivers seat. You, the buyer, are the one taking on responsibility for paying down the debt. Who gives a toss what the seller thinks.

 
 
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