November 6, 2006

Bits Bucket And Craigslist Finds For November 6, 2006

Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.




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95 Comments »

Comment by David Cee
2006-11-06 05:16:04

NAR $40 million dollar ad campaign lies:

“Showing how perilous the art of forecasting can be, the ad by the National Association of Realtors cites a 4.3 percent increase in the number of existing home sales contracts signed in August, from July, as evidence that “prices over all have stabilized.”

But Wednesday, new data released by the association showed that contract signings fell 1.1 percent in September, from August, and 13.6 percent from September 2005. A spokesman said that the first ads were prepared before the latest figures were available and would be updated next week.

Mr. Stevens dismissed the idea that the campaign, the first of its kind undertaken by the association,
—>>>>could be viewed as a sign of desperation

Comment by House Inspector Clouseau
2006-11-06 05:49:27

The Head of the NAR was on CNBC this morning. the segmentwas AWESOME. He got his butt handed to him on a plate by Nouriel Roubini (sp?).

Paraphrased, but close to accurate.

CNBC: “why are you doing this campaign, is it because sales are so slow”.

NAR : “why no, we’re at the 3rd strongest year for sales in HISTORY!!! in fact, since we’ve followed housing, housing prices have never come down! We project that housing will finish this year as the 3rd stongest year in history, and then next year housing will appreciate at 1-2%”

CNBC: “If sales are so strong, why have a $40 million ad campaign then?”

Him: “well, our members were worried because the media is portraying the market faslely as having a severe downturn, scaring buyers and sellers alike. We wanted to give a more balanced viewpoint. Thus, we did this ad campaign to show our members we’re behind them, and we won’t allow this biased journalism any longer”

CNBC: “here’s our next guest: Nouriel Roubini (sp?). Sir what do you have to say”

Roubini: “Well, the reason people are no longer buying as much as before is simply because housing is dropping at a rapid rate. And in fact, we expect housing to go through a severe depression, with housing values falling 20% more over the next year, they’ve already fallen 10% in most areas. As housing continues it’s depression, more and more contractors, homebuilders, real estate agents, brokers will find themselves unemployed, making the situation worse. Housing is simply unaffordable now. As for balanced journalism, I didn’t hear the NAR complaining about media attention the last 5 years, only now. it seems fairly obvious why they would need a $40 million ad campaign now, and it’s because housing is doing so poorly”

Comment by P'cola Popper
2006-11-06 05:58:40

Awesome! Roubini just blew away the $40 million campaign on national TV. NAR loses $40 million and Roubini gets the glory for free!!! NAR should fire the idiot who is responsible for the execution of the campaign. $40 million! Bwahahahaha!

Comment by P'cola Popper
2006-11-06 08:18:11

Roubini has some comments about the interview on his blog.

http://tinyurl.com/snhko

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Comment by mrktMaven FL
2006-11-06 12:37:12

That was sweeeet! He slammed the NAR on his blog and on national tv. Does anyone have the video? Please, please, please…tell me someone has a recording or at least a full transcript. Maven needs it.

 
 
Comment by tcm_guy
2006-11-06 16:38:48

“These NAR cheerleaders of the housing bubble are now having the roof of the housing bust collapse on their heads and no amount of spin - not even $40 million and uttter lies on Squawk Box - will be able to hide their increased desperation.”

I agree. Not $40 million, billion, or trillion.

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Comment by Captain Credit
2006-11-06 06:01:31

Damn I missed it! Roubini never fails to speak the truth. Even with nutjobs like Kudlow harping on him. Who was the guest NAR nosepicker for this interview?

 
Comment by WillM
2006-11-06 06:39:21

I saw the snippet on CNBC also. The thing that was most surprising to me was that this NAR mouthpiece still insists that “RE NEVER GOES DOWN”. History proved it (1990’s for example) and it is repeating. How can anyone go on national TV and lie with a straight face.

Comment by Eric
2006-11-06 06:54:53

if anybody can find this posted on Youtube or CNBC please post…would love to see it too. I love Roubini.

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Comment by passthebubbly
2006-11-06 07:45:25

I’ve got CNBC on, but I’ve been too mesmerized by that sweater Liz Claman is wearing today.

 
Comment by speedingpullet
2006-11-06 07:53:56

Mezmerised, or scared?

Having seen it, personally, I’m leaning towards scared.

 
Comment by passthebubbly
2006-11-06 07:59:35

Fair enough, I guess it depends on how old you are.

 
Comment by speedingpullet
2006-11-06 09:03:23

…hmm…if I’m looking at the right person, then its a brown cablekint short sleeve with knitted stuff around the empire waistline.
Don’t care how old you are, its still fugly ;-)

 
 
 
Comment by JWM in SD
2006-11-06 06:56:58

Ugh damn. I wished I had known that he was going to be on.

 
Comment by beebs
2006-11-06 12:05:34

595 “reduced” listings on SF craigslist. Many more than previous.

 
 
Comment by OkieLawyer
2006-11-06 07:06:24

I am hearing the same ads locally. The funny thing is: Oklahoma City is not considered to be a bubble market. Yet, the local realtor association is having to run ads to try to create more interest in real estate in OKC.

Comment by WArenter
2006-11-06 10:23:43

Well the realtors are everywhere trying to drum up business. This link is to the Bellingham, WA craigslist, under rental housing, trying to convince renters that buying is a much better deal:

http://bellingham.craigslist.org/apa/230483902.html

“I LOVE TO PAY RENT!
Yeah, and kissing a Bull Frog on the lips is lovely too! Quit telling yourself that you love being a tenant and making your Landlord rich!…”

(They will kindly give you the facts about home ownership and how to get in on the life you “deserve”.)

Comment by FutureVulture
2006-11-06 12:25:04

How nice of them to watch out for me. I hope they get what they deserve, too.

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Comment by seattle price drop
2006-11-06 14:25:11

Interesting timing to promote buying over renting in Bellingham. Rents are going DOWN here the past month! I’m going to wait another 6 months and then start looking for a bigger, cheaper rental to wait out the crash in.

Either that or re-negotiate where I’m already at for a rent cut.

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Comment by arlingtonva
2006-11-06 05:35:54

In Northern Va…
“I put a deposit on a condo 2 years ago (BEFORE the market peaked), and cannot go through with the sale. You can get it for the SAME price it was 2 years ago!!”
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/rfs/230444630.html

Comment by arlingtonva
2006-11-06 05:38:51

It’s one bedroom with den but the title of the advertisement says 2 bedroom. It seems with RE, it’s assumed everyone is lying.

Comment by txchick57
2006-11-06 05:43:28

It’s a dump. A cheap apartment with some high end finishes slapped on it.

Comment by JR
2006-11-06 05:50:50

And the price is only $420/square foot. This market is blowing thru 2005 values, now blasting thru 2004 values, on its way to 2000 values. What did a condo sell for in 1999-2000? $120/sqaure foot? This condo will be worth about $110,000 when the dust settles in 2010. Go ahead. I understand the NAR is spending $40 million telling us it is a good time to buy (and sell!). They are half right…

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Comment by JR
2006-11-06 05:51:14

And the price is only $420/square foot. This market is blowing thru 2005 values, now blasting thru 2004 values, on its way to 2000 values. What did a condo sell for in 1999-2000? $120/sqaure foot? This condo will be worth about $110,000 when the dust settles in 2010. Go ahead and buy it. I understand the NAR is spending $40 million telling us it is a good time to buy (and sell!). They are half right…

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Comment by passthebubbly
2006-11-06 07:49:24

Ha ha, everyone with an ounce of sense knows 1BRs MUST cash-flow. Nobody wants to live in one for more than a few years, and the occupants don’t have spouses and kids so they’re naturally more transient. So you have to rely on rental income and assume you’ll be looking for a new tenant every few years.

 
Comment by tcm_guy
2006-11-06 16:58:49

This is really weird. There are two pics of the bathroom basin, one is colored garnite and the other is colored black. Each one has a toilet just to the right of each. So is there a his n hers toilet and basins in the one bathroom? If there is, I would think the two basins would be the same color.

 
 
Comment by passthebubbly
2006-11-06 08:28:37

BTW, what would that rent for? In downtown Chicago that would go for around $1500, so a fair selling price would be $250K gave or take.

Comment by bacon
2006-11-06 09:25:33

about the same, probably a little less.

 
Comment by arlingtonva
2006-11-06 09:36:21

I’m paying $1350/mo two blocks away.

 
 
 
Comment by crash1
2006-11-06 05:51:26

ONE STEP FORWARD, TWO BACK
“The problems are too large for a little jump in income one month to help out.”

Tucker Hart Adams, a regional economist for US Bank, on a federal report that personal income rose faster than expected in September. Adams has forecast a recession in late 2007.

Tucker Hart Adams is a respected economist in the Denver area.

Comment by Neil
2006-11-06 06:53:10

First, I respect any economist whom is brave enough to forecast a recession.

I just don’t think it will be late 2007. To many jobs in the REIC, furniture (and other durable retail), etc. Not to mention the impact to the economy as credit is tightened. Oh, this is all overdue. Its just not going to be tasty medicine.

Neil

 
 
Comment by WillM
2006-11-06 06:35:44

Just want to share an anecdote. In 1999 when Lucent stock went from 82 to 72, my office mate got a mortgage on his fully paid house, because LU had dropped to 72 and he could not resist! Yes, nobody could believe LU was down to 72, and it was a screaming BUY.

We are in the same stage in RE today, as when LU was down to 72. All bubbles play out the same way. The only difference is that the stocks are more liquid and move faster. RE is illiquid. The NASDAQ crash took a year, with RE you are looking at 5-10 years. Yes it is the start of a VERY slow motion train wreck.

Comment by txchick57
2006-11-06 06:38:49

I have an even better LU story. A guy whose account I was “helping” with (7 figure account) got Lucent stock in the spinoff with a zero cost basis and rode that SOB right up to the top. I still have the emails I sent him ordering him to sell it when it was $100 or buy some leap puts on it. Nope, didn’t want to pay the taxes and just knew it was going much higher. Still has it but by god, he never paid those taxes!

Comment by Chrisusc
2006-11-06 07:13:45

Here’s another story. Earlier this year, did an amended tax return for similar time period for someone I attend church with. He had over $2mi in trades resulting in $250,000 in back taxes he consequently owed. Then the next year, he had lost all money and had not been trading much since. Of course those losses are still being carried forward to this day (other than the allowed max $3,000) as he has no offsetting gains, so he’ll probably die without using them. He is still trying to figure out how to pay the tax, what with his business slowing down (depended on disposable income - paints small airplanes).

Comment by txchick57
2006-11-06 07:21:27

Maybe he could offer the carryforward as a OIC.

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Comment by scdave
2006-11-06 07:20:18

Chick;…I see the same damm thing in real estate through 1031 exchanges….They make some of the poorest investments I have ever seen to “Defer” capital gains tax…

Comment by CA Guy
2006-11-06 09:28:48

dave - I concur on the 1031 exchanges. I have a good friend who made a somewhat hurried decision on his exchange, and they are really regretting it now as the property is a poor performer. Our tax system is pretty lame, often causing market distortions. Considering the amount of profit he made on the initial property, he would have been better off just paying the taxes. Instead, the new “investment” is turning into a real crocodile, eating $ every month. Hasn’t had any luck in trying to sell it, and the future grows dimmer with each passing day as this RE frenzy subsides.

As an aside, I was checking Amazon last night, looking at business/investment titles, and I noticed that the top sellers are heavily dominated by RE books. I wonder how often Amazon updates their lists? Surely people are no longer buying that Rich Dad garbage, right? Have you seen the new book he wrote with Trump? Too funny.

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Comment by Moman
2006-11-06 13:11:05

Amazon updates constantly - people are probably buying the titles to read and convince themselves it is still possible to make a cool $200k a year just by occupying a house.

 
Comment by scdave
2006-11-06 16:16:24

Ca Guy;….YUP…The tail wagging the dog….Particularly when you give up a solid investment and get a dog….Plus, the stringent timelines force people to make poor choices….I do reverses just to avoid this pressure cooker timeline….Costs a little more but I get to sleep at night….

 
 
 
Comment by Chip
2006-11-06 09:38:55

Sounds exactly like my b-i-l.

 
Comment by ocjohn
2006-11-06 09:55:24

In the spinoffs that I have received, I had to allocate the cost basis between the original stock and the spinoff. Most of the cost basis went into the original stock.

Do you remember all of the former dot.com option exercisers crying a river because of AMT. They exercised their options which made them fully liable for capital gains tax on the difference in cost basis and the exercise price. Then, because they wanted to pay the long term rate vs. the short term rate, they held onto the stock. Stocks only went up anyway, so the extra appreciation will pay for the tax (real estate only goes too - not). After the stock tanked, they were still liable to pay the tax on the original delta but didn’t have any money anymore. They tried to get the “evil” AMT tax law changed after the fact, but failed. Ignorance is no excuse. Maybe the future call for debtor’s relief will meet the same fate.

Comment by txchick57
2006-11-06 09:57:56

I have a friend who does NASD arbitrations on the plaintiff side and he won quite a few cases against brokers in deals like that where the FB claimed the broker told them to do that.

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Comment by Bill in Carolina
2006-11-06 16:34:18

I don’t know of too many folks in my old high-tech company who exercised but didn’t sell. But I DO know many who never exercised and sold any of their options at all, because they didn’t want the big tax bill!

When the stock was peaking, the P/E was in excess of 400/1. I kept imploring, “Sell, sell, the stock is never, ever going to be this high again.” They looked at me like I had three heads. On my first service anniversary, I exercised and sold every share that I had vested (not that many compared to folks who had been there longer). Yep, I had a big tax bill. Actually, isn’t that the goal?

A few months later the stock started down. It lost over 98% of its peak value, and is still more than 96% down from the peak. Like many others, I got laid off. The company is hanging in there, but it grows only via acquisitions.

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Comment by Gekko
2006-11-06 07:15:05

-
I can still rememember Crammer yelling “JDSU - Just Don’t Sell Us!” in 1999.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.asp?Symbol=jdsud

 
Comment by passthebubbly
2006-11-06 07:50:59

LU-LU did not go lightly, that’s for sure.

 
Comment by chilidoggg
2006-11-06 17:54:01

“The NASDAQ crash took a year, with RE you are looking at 5-10 years.”

People continue to say this, and I just do not buy it. I’ve said before that we are dealing with the most unregulated economy since 1932. I think we need to look at the crash of 1873(?) for comparison (and I don’t think land values tanked over 5 years, but I’ve never studied it.) I also think the comparison to Japan are pointless, way too many differences. We’ll be 30% off peak by October 2008. Nationwide. That’s a crash.

 
 
Comment by AZgolfer
2006-11-06 06:39:35

Hey - Did anyone find out what the house in Desert Mountian auctioned for?

 
Comment by Ben Mathews
2006-11-06 06:54:35

Anyone with Utah experience here? The housing market in Utah was stagnant until about two years ago. Since then, it has appreciated rapidly with some slowing (but still growth) in recent months. Everyone around here seems quite enthusiastic about the local market, but in light of the rest of the country I can’t help but being a little sceptical. There was not a bubble of rapid growth like other parts of the country so there might be something to that.

I would like to buy a home in Utah or Salt Lake county during the next year. Does anyone have a good crystal ball, local observations, or hard data?

Comment by Big V
2006-11-06 10:37:18

Ben:

I think you should wait to buy a house just based on what you told me. Go ahead and mine for Utah data using Google or whatever, but it sounds like Utah is following the same pattern as the rest of the country: unprecedented growth coinciding with loose lending and low interest rates. Unless you guys are seeing increased employment/wages due to some great new industry (other than the RE industry) in your town, then the price increases probably are not real.

It’s true that the ups and downs in Utah might not be as extreme as those in California, but the incomes in Utah aren’t as big either, so people can withstand less.

Good luck,

Big V

 
Comment by Tango in Uniform
2006-11-06 10:54:16

I’d say it’s a good bet to wait at least a year, everywhere in the U.S. (except maybe a few plains states). To see how even “non-bubble” areas might be in trouble, go to Google Video and search for Housing Boom in Billings. SLC and Billings have had nearly identical appreciation since 2001. Also check out the link on the video sidebar for the hard facts and figures.

 
Comment by SD_suntaxed
2006-11-06 11:43:51

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,645196879,00.html
Head of Ivory Homes talking about speculative building and predicting a correction in UT.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,645199091,00.html
Article talking about appreciation, prices hitting their peak and artificial demand because of speculative buying.

http://www.housingtracker.net/old_housingtracker/location/Utah/SaltLakeCity/
The inventory in SLC has been piling up in the past several months and asking prices have gone flat.

The market there took off as a result of people and speculators being priced out of the coastal markets. Equity cashouts, refi’s and exotic financing are just as popular there as elsewhere, and 200K for a house in West Valley City is just absurd, given how low wages are. I saw an article last week where one builder in the area was claiming that they are “insulated” from the current decline happening in other places around the country. We’ll see how well that argument holds up without equity refugees from more expensive cities who cannot sell their homes now and the number of speculators dropping quickly.

Comment by SD_suntaxed
2006-11-06 12:56:04

http://www.housingtracker.net/askingprices/Utah/SaltLakeCity/

Graphs and some inventory numbers. I meant to link this instead of the other link above from the same site.

 
 
 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2006-11-06 07:12:21

Mish has some good stuff up about a busted Florida auction for 22 properties in Key West.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com

Comment by phillygal
2006-11-06 08:07:39

that was a good link; didn’t read the article because it required registration.
OK people in S. Florida: you now have auctions happenning in Naples, from what I recall that one was a bust.
This one in Key West did not go down too well for the sellers, either. What is pretty clear is that sellers and realtors are not responding to the current market conditions. The bids at these auctions are telling them what the market currently will tolerate. At this point I’m guessing the realtors are more willing to capitulate than the sellers are, but as we have all seen, the 2006 vintage of home seller is pretty darn stubborn.

And now homesellers are resorting to essay contests to unload their properties. When gimmicks like this appear, you know there is going to be a lot more pain to come.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-06 07:13:24

WSJ Opinion (p. A 14)
Monday, November 14, 2006

The Fed’s Confession

When it comes to admitting error, central bankers tend to emulate Benjamin Disraeli, who famously said “never complain, never explain.” So it was nothing short of astonishing last week for Richard Fisher, President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, to confess in public that the Fed had blundered by keeping monetary policy too easy for too long in 2003 and 2004.

Speaking to bankers in New York, Mr. Fisher issued a mea maxima culpa that deserves wide attention: “In retrospect, the real fed funds rate turned out to be lower than what was deemed appropriate at the time and was held lower longer than it should have been.” As the nearby chart chows, a Fed worried about possible “deflation” moved the overnight interest rate it charges banks in June 2003 to an extraordinarily low 1% and kept it there for another year.

Mr. Fisher blamed this mistake on “poor data” that underestimated inflation, leading “to a policy action that amplified speculative activity in the housing and other markets. Today, as anybody not from the former planet of Pluto knows, the housing market is undergoing a substantial correction and inflicting real costs to millions of homewowners across the country.” In other words, the Fed itself is responsible for the current housing bust because its over-easy policy created a real estate frenzy that was bound to end once the Fed tried to regain control over inflation expectations.

Mr. Fisher was careful to say he was speaking only for himself. But we’d sure like to know what his Fed colleagues think of his argument — not least current Fed Chairman Ben Benranke, who was a Fed governor for much of that time and had been one of those fretting loudest about the risks of “deflation.” We can only assume that former Chairman Alan Greenspan is also preparing a chapter on this era for his memoirs.

Readers of these columns will not be surprised to learn that we think Mr. Fisher is correct and deserves credit for his candor. But the real import of his remarks isn’t 20-20 hindsight so much as a chance for the Fed, and much of the economic establishment, to rethink its inflation models. Mr. Fisher bluntly concedes that “most economic data are inherently backward looking, often to a disconcerting degree.” Thus the data the Fed was watching in 2003 suggested that prices were falling even as they were beginning to rise.

But this lets the Fed off the hook a little too easily. Throughout this period, and especially into 2004, there was plenty of other “data” flashing yellow and then red about rising inflation. The dollar was weak, both against other major currencies and especially against gold, which began a price surge not seen since the 1970s. Commodity prices across the board — notably oil — also began a rise that to our mind couldn’t be explained merely by an increase in relative global demand. And there were also rising price pressures in dollar-bloc countries overseas, notably in China.

The question for Fed governors is why they discounted this evidence of real-time rising prices. Instead, Mr. Fisher says they were watching their own alphabet-soup of price indexes, such as the CPI and PCE, all of which look through the rearview mirror. That’s assuming they were even watching prices at all, rather than the job market or the “output gap”, or other measures that are dubious guides for monetary policy. The best guide for maintaining stable prices is to watch ‘actual prices,’ or what economists call a price rule.

To be fair to the Fed, its policy decisions in the wake of the stock-market collapse were stellar through 2002. And in the years since it has had plenty of company in chasing “poor data.” Most Wall Street economist and Beltway politicians were only too happy to cheer on the Fed as it kept its foot on the money accelerator. Some of our supply-side friends also claimed to see no evidence of rising prices, even as home prices rose by double-digits year after year and second homes became investment plays. Inflations are always popular at the beginning, and this was no exception.

* * *

Which brings us back to the present. The Fed did finally recognize that inflation was a problem, and the consequences of its own policy correction are now being felt in the economy, especially housing. As Mr. Fisher conceded last week, the housing slump “Is complicating the task of achieving our monetary objective of creating the conditions for sustainable non-inflationary growth.” Translation: We may have to tighten money further to restore stable prices, but we’re aftraid we’ll tank the economy if we do. This is the dilemma the Fed’s easy-money mistake has made for itself, and for the rest of us.

The good news is that the economy entered this rough patch with considerable momentum that may yet avoid a Fed-induced recession. The incentives from the 2003 tax cuts remain in place and have helped ot boost investment and corporate profits. As last Friday’s blowout October jobs report showed, the labor market remains strong and wages are increasing. If we’re lucky, rising incomes will keep consumers spending even if their home values decline. Also if we’re lucky, Tuesday’s election results will not produce a reversal on tax policy; if anything, we may need another tax cut in the next year or two if the Fed tightens further.

As for the Fed, our reading of history is that the sooner it acts to restore price stability, the better the prospects for long-run growth and prosperity.

Comment by P'cola Popper
2006-11-06 07:29:51

Housing can’t complicate anything because according to Moskow it only accounts for 5% of GDP and the other 95% of the economy is rocking!

 
Comment by Hoz
2006-11-06 08:48:15

China has announced that it is holding over 1 Trillion US dollars in its froeign currency reserves. And despite Paulson’s insistence that China devalue the Yuan, China is expected to keep supporting the dollar and buying treasuries - Yeah more money at lower rates.
from ChinaDaily
“…Experts worry that China could suffer huge losses if the dollar depreciates or US treasury yields fall, as the dollar-denominated assets are by far the largest portion of the reserve portfolio.

“It’s a big challenge to manage the money,” Ha Jiming, chief economist with China International Capital Corporation based in Hong Kong.

“The key will be to slow down the reserves growth but it takes time.”

“If any central bank that has most of their reserves in dollars — and that is most Asian central banks… sells a large amount of dollars as a percentage of their reserves, two things are going to happen: One, the dollar is going to collapse, and two, they’re going to hurt themselves,” said Callum Henderson, head of forex strategy at Standard Chartered in Singapore

“No one is going to offload half of their reserves, it’s the stuff of Michael Crichton (novels).”
http://tinyurl.com/y65e5h

Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-06 10:24:05

Anything that cannot go on forever will stop, including the symbiosis.

 
 
 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2006-11-06 07:25:53

Even though Fisher recently admitted the Fed didn’t know what it was doing when it lowered interest rates back in 2002 and 2003 due to “bad data” somehow Moskow believes the economy will bounce back in the fourth quarter of 2006 and the economy will grow slightly below 3% in 2007. Oh yeah and its no big deal if the housing industry tanks because it only accounts for 5% of GDP according to Moskow.

Does the Fed believe its own fairy tales or is it just playing dumb?

From MarketWatch:

http://tinyurl.com/t4z8l

going on when it lowered interest rates from 200

Comment by passthebubbly
2006-11-06 07:54:34

I’m on record as waiting/hoping for someone to come up with a new economic number, “core GDP”. It’ll be GDP minus housing, the same way we have core CPI, CPI minus food and energy.

So total GDP might be -2% some time next year, with core GDP +4%. Then people can say look, if you ignore the housing crash we’re doing OK!

Comment by P'cola Popper
2006-11-06 08:14:30

And if frogs had guns they wouldn’t be afraid of snakes.

 
Comment by nhz
2006-11-06 08:31:04

if home prices are going to decline for more than a year, I’m sure this decline will find its way into the core CPI again …
and yes, probably they will invent something to exclude it from the GDP calculation at the same time.

in Europe the burocrats have been discussing a similar CPI revision for more than a year now, but they are still waiting for official introduction - probably until housing in the EU tops.

 
Comment by Chris
2006-11-06 08:39:34

I’m on record as waiting/hoping for someone to come up with a new economic number, “core GDP”.

Now that is the funniest thing I’ve heard on this board!

Comment by passthebubbly
2006-11-06 08:56:42

Yeah, but considering how government has convinced everyone to look at an “inflation” number that removes everything actually inflationary, it can do the same with GDP.

I think some I-bank or otherwise credible economist will start doing this, then eventually the gvt will follow.

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Comment by Walker
2006-11-06 07:32:25

This is a test. None of my posts worked yesterday. I am trying to see if this one will go through.

Comment by Justin
2006-11-06 07:56:55

Try again. I don’t think it worked.

 
 
Comment by bubbleglum
2006-11-06 07:54:34

Desperate realtors . . . desperate housewives

http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/155898

Comment by passthebubbly
2006-11-06 08:11:02

I didn’t get the “housewife” part of that, but I’ve already made a MILF reference on this thread so I’ll shut up.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2006-11-06 08:15:08

I like this website:

http://www.building-cost.net

You answer some questions about the features in a house and they calculate how much it would cost to build. I just tried it for that 1.1 M 835 sq-ft shack in Coronado (from yesterday’s discussion). I had to guess on a lot (a “poor” kitchen), but the webstie calcuated that the 1.1M POS would cost ~$94K to build.

Comment by Chip
2006-11-06 10:06:40

Oxide — great site for anyone thinking about building, like me. Thanks.

 
 
Comment by ocrenter
2006-11-06 08:31:24

for all of you renters out there. always check with a foreclosure listing company before renting. there are actually owners out there still trying to rent flips out even with the auction just 1 month away.

Bubble Markets Inventory Tracking

 
Comment by bubbleglum
2006-11-06 08:32:31

“I didn’t get the “housewife” part of that, but I’ve already made a MILF reference on this thread so I’ll shut up.”

It’s in his title, wasn’t my idea…

 
Comment by zeropointzero
2006-11-06 09:34:04

Auctions, contests, raffles, exotic/prosaic throw-ins (how about a boat? or a Ford Focus? or a year’s HOA’s paid?), and my-loss-is-your-gain stories. all designed to disintermediate/distract buyers from taking a rational look at the market. it’s great — the more “unique” approaches you see, the more you know the market’s in trouble, and that a given seller can’t/won’t accept lowering the the price.

You know comments like “he’s not that into you” or JDTMFA (”just dump the mo-fo already”) — we need one that pithily captures “just lower the price”

Comment by phillygal
2006-11-06 09:51:27

No, you can’t say “just lower the price” to the Sellers of 2006. It’s considered Hate Speech.

Do you want the Speech Police knocking on your door in the middle of the night? Heck no, not me…unn-uh.

 
 
Comment by CPAone
2006-11-06 10:17:37

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/06112006/325/million-pound-starter-home-2024.html

Million pound starter home by 2024
Monday November 6, 04:51 PM

LONDON (Reuters) - First-time buyers will have to fork out a cool million pounds to get a foothold on the property ladder in less than 20 years, data showed on Monday.

The average first-time buyer home in the UK will hit the million pound mark in the second quarter of 2024, if the current trend in house price and income growth continues, according to Stroud & Swindon Building Society.

It said that would equate to seven times the average salary, projected to be 146,188 pounds by then, if earnings continue to increase at current levels.
Those in Greater London will see the average first-time buyer property price soar above 1 million pounds the soonest — within 12 years — if house price inflation is maintained at the same rate of the past decade.

The typical first-time buyer home would hit that price within 16 years in the south-east of England and 17 years in the south-west.

Property in Scotland would take the longest to achieve that price, reaching the one million mark in 29 years.

Paul Chafer, sales director at Stroud & Swindon, said the “shocking picture of a potential future” suggested the next generation could put off buying property or other life goals, such as marriage or children, to get on the property ladder.

“Most people aspire to owning their own home, but this research shows that our children are going to find it very difficult to get onto the housing ladder,” he said.

“Even if house price increases slow down to more acceptable levels, in future first-time buyers are going to be forced to put off purchasing their first home even longer and have to rely increasingly on the ‘bank of mum and dad’ to help with the deposit.”

The findings come after the country’s second largest mortgage lender, Abbey, increased the amount it will typically lend to up to five times income to help struggling first-time buyers.

But Chafer said it was pointless to increase income multiples if it would result in consumers taking on levels of debt they could not service.

The projections are based on Office for National Statistics figures that show the cost of an average first-time buyer home has risen 11.5 percent per annum since 1996. The average income has increased at a rate of 7.4 percent per year over the same period.

Comment by Arwen
2006-11-06 10:38:36

What’s weird about this analysis is that it seems to subtextually support the idea that the market will be permenantly unhinged from fundamentals. This is the problem in the psychology around real estate: no, actually, you cannot have any future in which fundamentals are utterly ignored.
Not like we’re all paying $6000 per tulip bulb.
I mean, who’s going to be buying those houses?

Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-06 12:05:49

“What’s weird about this analysis is that it seems to subtextually support the idea that the market will be permenantly unhinged from fundamentals.”

Sounds much like last century’s comments about the stock market reaching a permanently high plateau…

 
 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-06 10:26:17

In the “kill the messenger” department…
—————————————————————————–
GINA LUBRANO READERS REPRESENTATIVE
A changing housing market is news
November 6, 2006

Writing about the real estate market in San Diego is a no-win situation. When the market was hot and prices and property sales were booming, some people who couldn’t afford to buy blamed The San Diego Union-Tribune specifically and the media in general, saying their stories were driving housing prices to impossible heights, robbing them of their dream of ownership.

Now that we’re in a cooling period, reporters are hearing from homeowners who accuse the newspaper of trying to frighten them with “scary headlines.” A story last month prompted a reader to accuse the newspaper of being irresponsible, of trying to cripple the real estate market.

A story in the Home section yesterday may have added to his suspicions. It said that since January 2004, single-family home prices are down countywide on a year-over-year basis and that prices in all but three ZIP codes in the county have dropped from their all-time-high median prices.

Roger Showley, the reporter who wrote the story, pointed out that statistics about housing sales, whether up or down, are based on the same source, a service called DataQuick Information Systems, which follows the market. DataQuick’s analysis stems from a historic perspective of nearly 20 years. The conclusions are not based on the word of a neophyte real estate agent who has experienced a good month or a bad month and is on top of the world or in the doldrums.

Carl Larsen, editor of the Sunday Home section, notes there is no doubt that the market is declining and that even trade associations representing realtors and home builders acknowledge it’s the case.

But the housing market is news for other reasons. Those following it are not just homeowners worried that their equity is slipping, Larsen said.

“There are broader ramifications for San Diego and the entire national economy,” he said, adding that housing price increases in recent years have played a key part in the economy’s growth.

“It could be argued that anyone in mortgage banking, in construction or those who sell appliances at Home Depot or Best Buy depends on the newspaper to report the direction of an industry that directly affects their livelihood. That’s a consideration far different than those who monitor prices to gauge rising or falling equity of their homes.”

He said stories about the declining housing market are bolstered by other signs. “Countrywide Mortgage, the nation’s largest, has announced major layoffs.” He said that publicly held building companies have acknowledged declining expectations on housing sales in their press releases about earnings. As for mortgages, “major concerns have arisen, including warnings from the U.S. government, on the growth of adjustable-rate or zero-interest mortgages. Foreclosure rates are up sharply.”

That, too, has been the stuff of headlines.

Larsen said he understands why people are concerned about negative stories. “But at the same time, it would be unfair and irresponsible not to report fully the sudden about-face of a housing market in a city that many experts have said led the national run-up in prices.”

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20061106/news_mz1e6lubrano.html

Comment by Jerry
2006-11-06 13:47:29

Wonder how Home Depot sales are doing now. Three years ago my wife and I waited in line at the pant section counter for 45 minutes and when our turn come in our line, the gentleman said it was his “lunch break” and simple walked away leaving us and others standing in line. This was at the Carmel branch where all the boomers shop in their new SUV bought on the 60 month payment plans. After moving out of state in 05 before the crash I can only wonder how the shopping is now. It will be a cold day in hell before this family returns. Traffic,city government out of control. And o wow! Wait tell the taxes arrive in the mail. I bet there will be a long line at the accesors office; hey my house isn’t worth that. Only good thing is the Chargers. We’ll watch that on tv and thank the good Lord we saw the light.

Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-06 14:03:33

“This was at the Carmel branch where all the boomers shop in their new SUV bought on the 60 month payment plans. After moving out of state in 05 before the crash I can only wonder how the shopping is now.”

I have only been in that store about five different occasions over the past 1 1/2 years, but I can assure you that there has never been many customers in there on any one of them. The thing which has generally impressed me the most about San Diego’s big box stores (at least Home Depots and CostCos which I have visited) is that there never seems to be enough density of foot traffic to pay the rent which would be needed to cover the “mortgage.”

Comment by Jerry
2006-11-06 15:34:29

Three years ago was a hell of a long time ago in real estate when, “I better get this house now before it goes higher” and everyone was business doing things to their houses.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Big V
2006-11-06 14:49:36

The CHARGERS?

 
 
 
Comment by bradthemod
2006-11-06 11:31:00

I am curious to see how reverse mortgages will play out in the years to come. Not knowing anything about them, but I suppose they will get some scrutiny as real estate prices fall.

 
Comment by ronin
2006-11-06 11:37:12

“”Writing about the real estate market in San Diego is a no-win situation. When the market was hot and prices and property sales were booming, some people who couldn’t afford to buy blamed The San Diego Union-Tribune specifically and the media in general, saying their stories were driving housing prices to impossible heights, robbing them of their dream of ownership.”

No, they didn’t. And even if they did, you did not write a story about their comments.

 
Comment by melody
2006-11-06 12:35:56

Don’t forget to vote!!! No bitching rights unless you do.

Comment by Mark
2006-11-06 16:47:57

Choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil. I choose bullets, not ballots.

 
 
Comment by seattle price drop
2006-11-06 14:16:36

From the Sunday Seattle Times:

“A real estate lawyer has been sentenced to a year and a half in prison and fined $6,000 for laundering money from drug traffickers through real estate investments…. Joel Manalang, 37, who operated an escrow business, recieved large quantities of cash from clients in 2003 and 2005 under circumstances that indicated the money was from drug profits. The money was delivered to Manalang in shoeboxes and duffle bags. He then engaged in financial transactions with the money, helping drug traffiakers buy real estate, accoring to court records. He pled guilty August 1…

‘What makes this most difficult to understand is that law enforcement visited him during 2005 and warned him against such activities, ‘ Assisitant US Attorney Ron Friedman said.”

Gee, looks like he was addicted to the easy money and just couldn’t help himself in spite of warnings from law enforcement. Something is really wrong with this picture. Looks like they’ve known for quite a while that money’s been being laundered through RE transactions in the mega bubble cities.

And why not? Great deal to hide your drug profits in RE then cash it in a year or 2 later for 100% or more profit.

1 and 1/2 years in prison then 2 years supervised release afterwards.

 
Comment by GetStucco
2006-11-06 14:18:29

Can any of our local experts please explain the kabuki dance also known “as sending letters of default?” In particular, (1) is this bad news for KBH, and (2) should we expect the stock price to rally in response?
————————————————————————————
KB Home Receives Additional Letters Regarding a Notice of Default Related to Its Senior and Senior Subordinated Notes
Last Update: 5:01 PM ET Nov 6, 2006

LOS ANGELES, Nov 06, 2006 (BUSINESS WIRE) — KB Home (Last: 43.55+0.26+0.60% 4:49pm 11/06/2006), announced today that on November 2, 2006 it received letters from US Bank stating that they are notices of default with respect to KB Home’s 7-1/4% Senior Notes due 2018, 6-1/4% Senior Notes due 2015, 5-7/8% Senior Notes due 2015, and 5-3/4% Senior Notes due 2014 and with respect to KB Home’s 8-5/8% Senior Subordinated Notes due 2008, 7-3/4% Senior Subordinated Notes due 2011, and 9-1/2% Senior Subordinated Notes due 2011. US Bank states in the letters that it is the successor trustee under the indentures for each of the foregoing Senior and Senior Subordinated Notes.
The letters state that KB Home is in default under the indentures because it has not delivered to the trustee a copy of KB Home’s Quarterly Report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended August 31, 2006 (the “Third Quarter 10-Q”).

KB Home is reviewing the letters, as well as other similar letters the Company has previously announced receiving, and is considering their validity as notices of default. Under the indentures, if KB Home fails to cure a default within the 60 days after notice is effectively given, the default could become an “event of default,” allowing the trustee or the holders of at least 25% in aggregate outstanding principal amount of a series of notes issued under such indenture to accelerate the maturity of such series.

As previously announced, KB Home is soliciting consents from the holders of record as of 5:00 p.m. (New York time) on October 24, 2006 of its Senior Notes, to approve a proposed amendment to the indenture for its Senior Notes to extend the time for the Company to file the Third Quarter 10-Q no later than February 23, 2007. The consent solicitation will expire at 5:00 p.m. (New York time) on November 7, 2006, unless extended.

http://tinyurl.com/vl3qv

 
Comment by finnman
2006-11-06 16:02:51

Matt Drudge is getting into the bubble reporting

http://www.drudgereport.com/

PHOENIX HOUSING BONANZA HAS TURNED BUST… DEVELOPING…

Comment by finnman
Comment by crispy&cole
2006-11-06 20:48:37

some for as little as $60 to $80 a square foot, which local experts say is barely enough to cover construction costs let alone land expenses.
__________________________________________

IS this true???

 
 
 
Comment by mcbeth
2006-11-06 16:57:22

I’m interested in any data that compares the available housing (ie., those 900,000 extra units that no-one lives in) with the demographics of folks who are the ‘buyers waiting in the wings’. My suspicion is that those who could afford to buy up already did, and that a lot of the houses that were built are not going to be affordable to a large number of the wannabee buyers, no matter how steeply discounted. Does anyone have comment/data on this? No offense intended for anyone on this blog who was smart enough to remain a renter…..

Comment by seattle price drop
2006-11-06 17:45:09

This isn’t data but it’s a tidbit re. these “waiting in the wings/want to buy up” people.

A friend of mine who’s a realtor in NYC told me yesterday that for the first time- ever- she has no 2 bedroom apts. for sale. She said those people are the ones who would be buying up to a classic six but they are locked in position because they know the prices are coming down on the larger apts. So they don’t want to buy right now, hence they’re not selling either. They’re waiting for the top end to tumble.

Anyway, those were her ideas on the situation. And she might be right.

I don’t know about NYC but I do know Seattle. The top end went BERSERK. Homes that were 400 K a couple years ago went to over a million. If I was in a tiny 400K house in Seattle right now but wanted to “move up”, I’d probably be waiting for those 1 mil. homes to topple. I may not get more than 200K for my now 400K home in a couple years, but the 1 mil. could also go back to 4 or 500K. So in the long run I’d probably save more than I’d lose by waiting.

Tricky days indeed for buying and selling RE.

 
 
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