Motoring On In A “Grand Ponzi Scheme”
An editorial from the Arizona Republic. “Thousands of tract houses are being built within the 10-mile emergency zone of the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station, the nation’s largest. As my colleague Mark Shaffer reported, developers have filed plans for 107,000 houses on 33,000 acres in eight so-called master-planned communities.”
“The houses aren’t being built there out of necessity. With the housing slowdown continuing to grind away, central Arizona is stuck with a huge surplus of developable land. But that hasn’t stopped the land-speculation ‘players.’ Land near the nuke plant now fetches $60,000 an acre.”
“More giant subdivisions are going up in Mohave County. Here the sprawl enterprise is to create even-farther-flung suburbs for Las Vegas. Unfortunately they don’t face even the limited water restrictions, such as a requirement of a 100-year water supply, that are in force in parts of the state. And Mohave County is notoriously lacking in groundwater. Officials say they are powerless to stop the building.”
“What baffles me is why the real estate industry retains such a united front in the face of the obvious perils Arizona faces. Civic-minded developers are loath to break ranks with the bottom-feeders. I hear: ‘People will come here no matter what. You can’t stop them.’ Then, ‘Any restrictions will cause a recession!’”
“Well, which is it? If people will come here no matter what, then they will come for projects within the existing urban boundaries and safest watersheds. If any restrictions will cause the sky to fall, then we need to change course to something less risky.”
“Yet we motor on in a grand Ponzi scheme, which tends to last as long as there are new suckers coming. The ‘players’ make a killing, and who wouldn’t with taxpayers paying for water, freeways, flood control and other assets needed to make the deals worthwhile.”
The East Valley Tribune. “Roszak/ADC, an Evanston, Ill.-based developer, has announced plans to build a condo complex called Fiesta Towers, which would be composed of four towers up to 25 stories containing 540 to 850 units.”
“Broker Bert Kempfert said completion of the property sale is an indicator that Roszak is serious about moving forward. ‘I doubt they would buy it if they didn’t intend to build it,’ he said. ‘There is a 100 percent probability they will get it built.’”
“The Mesa City Council unanimously approved zoning for the property in April, allowing construction of buildings up to 25 stories. At that time, the firm said it intended to sell condos in the $200,000 to $700,000 price range.”
“Teri Killgore, Fiesta District program manager for the city of Mesa, said the developer plans to open the office in a nearby strip shopping center. That could happen early next year, although she said the schedule could change based on conditions in the housing market.”
“‘Everyone knows what is happening in the housing industry,’ she said. ‘I doubt that they would launch sales in the low point of the market.’”
“A year ago, Phoenix was one of the hottest markets in the country, with sales and prices running at record highs. The median home price hit $263,000. But up to a quarter of the sales were to investors, who began selling their properties wholesale when it became harder to flip them for a fast profit.”
“Now, existing home sales are down 34 percent, and new-home starts are off 18 percent from last year. Phoenix remains expensive. In 2005, first-time buyers could expect to pay as much as $230,000 for a new house. These days, the figure is closer to $200,000. Some builders are piling on incentives.”
“Before the market started cooling, there were few homes valued at less than $200,000, said Ben Sage, Phoenix office director for Metrostudy, which tracks new home markets around the country. ‘As the market has been adjusting, home builders have been lowering prices,’ Sage said.”
The Las Vegas Sun. “At 2:30 in the afternoon, Remedios Bernal opens the door of his mobile home with his right hand, rubbing his eyes with his left. Bernal had been dozing off after running out of places to look for construction work. He was laid off three weeks ago, an apparent casualty of the valley’s 13th consecutive month of declining year-to-year home sales.”
“‘I came here (to the United States) to work, not to rest,’ he said with a slight smile. Monica Caruso, spokeswoman for the Southern Nevada Home Builders Association, said thousands of workers may have been laid off in recent months.”
“Though analysts have debated the meaning of the home-sales figures for months, little attention has been paid to what it means for workers such as Bernal, often in the country illegally. Unemployment claims in the construction industry were up 32 percent statewide in October compared with last year, rising from 3,119 to 4,128.”
“In the last three weeks, he has visited 10 friends and relatives who have worked in construction and have their own contacts. He has also visited construction sites cold. Nothing came of any of the visits.”
“Erasmo Badillo, without work after 12 years laying shingles on rooftops across the valley, not only stopped sending money back to an uncle in Veracruz, Mexico, but started asking him to send some of that money back.”
“Bernal said friends have left their families behind and gone to Phoenix for work. Others interviewed for this story knew people who had done the same.”
‘October permit activity is not yet available for the Valley. In September, 2,281 construction permits were issued, compared with 5,409 for the same month in 2005. ‘We’re down about 50 percent month to month from the pace of 2005 and year to date we expect to be down about 30 percent overall for new-home permits,’ said R.L. Brown, Valley housing analyst. ‘We don’t expect much change through the balance of this year.’
‘Phoenix remains expensive. In 2005, first-time buyers could expect to pay as much as $230,000 for a new house. These days, the figure is closer to $200,000. Some builders are piling on incentives. Before the market started cooling, there were few homes valued at less than $200,000, said Ben Sage, Phoenix office director for Metrostudy.’
So Metrostudy says the low rung for new houses has fallen $30,000; and the incentives take it lower.
From the LV link:
‘In the back, a second bedroom has been filled with two friends ‘from the same ranch’ in Sinaloa who help with the bills. But they also build houses and, with their work weeks getting shorter, they may soon return to Mexico.’
But I thought it was immigrants that would keep fueling indefinite growth? The PTB have really cooked up a mess this time.
How can any one read about these guys and say that illegal immigration doesn’t take jobs away from legal residents of the U.S.? These guys aren’t washing dishes, construction jobs pay well for working class citizens.
all you are ever told about are the harmless lettuce pickers
I don’t think anyone truly believes illegal immigrants don’t compete with legal citizens for jobs. It is just baseless rhetoric from talking head politicians who try to downplay the impact of illegal immigration. The politicians are in the pockets of big business. Big business loves cheap labor. With it, the Robert Toll’s of the country line their pockets and live like kings, while the middle class slowly rots away. It’s a sick, sick country…
Think I saw a Business Week headline recently saying something to that effect. Post election, a power shift in Washington would have limited results on people’s lives because of the amount of influence of big business and corporations.
Well said banteringBear. Jim Webb (who beat the drooling idiot and Bush fanboy George Allen) just wrote an excellent Wall Street Journal think-piece on the growing divide between the Super-rich and the rest of us. Of course the usual suspects accused him of “class warfare,” but he hit the nail on the head.
The current movers and shakers in the Republican Party are bought and paid for by Wall Street. It’s time Main Street and this country’s productive classes finally stood up and took back control over the GOP.
Wasn’t Clinton the cheerleader of outsourcing blue and white color jobs?
And Clinton’s mantle was quickly taken up G.W.
Illegal immigration and the steady exodus of jobs is not an issue that either party can claim that they are fighting, because both are complicent in it.
Bear you are correct! However, I would go further. We are nout just sick, but on the verge of collapse and if not death, serious reorganization or restructuring in some way. I am not saying revolution or different style gov’t, just a real downsizing of the middle class. Here is my real take, with de-regulation of the banking industry, who is a large lobby in Washington, the gov’t and the big business have basically made everyone not filthy rich a serf. What do I mean? Well, if you have to worry about everyting from the mortgage, even if you didn’t buy in the bubble, braces for the kids, overpriced college, health insurance, and the possibility of losing your job, then who has time to ask the government for a redress of grievances? I seem to remember something about that redress thing in Colonial history. UMMMMMM, just can’t seem to remember where, though. Anyway, my point is…debt-free, non-wage-reliant people are a very real scare for the government , if they could ever mobilize. What to do then? Keep everyone in perpetual debt, priced out of everything they need and they will tow the line so to speak. Unfortunately, when the debt bubble finally bursts, it is going to get real ugly. Again, not revolution or real blood in the streets ugly, but a lot of people suffering to just put food on a sidewalk under the bridge or food on the dashboard of a car. This country is so sick that it can’t go on like much longer. You can only support the gov’t with middle class taxes for so long. You can only keep inflating money for so long before everyone but the kingly rich a repriced out of everything. Anyway, guess it is time to go get me beer and watch some Jerry Springer.
It’s very true.
Why do you presume that you have a say in how two individuals conduct a business transaction?
I’m not comprehending the question? Anybody?
Imploder-
Yea, I comprehend. What he’s basically saying is that the American public should have no say in whether or not Corporations illegally hire illegal aliens because it’s a business transaction. But what’s really amazing is the total disregard for American law that the advocates parrot. It’s as if because it’s a business transaction, or I pay my taxes, or I just came here to work gives them amnesty from American law. It’s like those excuses supersede U.S. law. No basic comprehension that if you break the law you get no bene’s. It’s really amazing to watch. It’s fresh in my mind because I was watching the lady who’s taking sanctuary in the Chicago Church(storefront). Who got busted using a fake SS# to work at O’hara. The fact she had committed two felonies seemed to escape her.
Thanks Mrincomestream. I was afraid it was a something that retarded.
Not only that, but if you read the saga of this woman fully, she’s a child exploiter, using her child as a human shield of sorts and making him go to Mexico to lobby for her. The poor child must be completely traumatized. It’s all about her, not about the welfare of the child.
In a free society, one in which one has complete control and responsiblity for one’s own destiny, a business transaction between two individuals has nothing to do with you or the rest of the voting public. Why? Because those two individuals have complete control and reponsibility for their own destiny, and neither of them have to answer to you anymore than you have to answer to them. That’s called a free market.
Unfortunately not when law is broken. With illegals, that is the point, there are breaking the law. Free market my arse.
Don’t you find it absurd that working can be considered a crime?
Not if it is illegal. Drug dealing is job, but illegal.
All drugs should be legalized, but that’s besides the point.
Maybe I should rephrase:
Don’t you find it absurd that working at the airport can be considered a crime?
“a business transaction between two individuals has nothing to do with you or the rest of the voting public.”
Horsesh#t! Depends on the transaction doesen’t? You mean like when Tony Soprano makes a “business transaction” to have somebody “Hit’?
For being named “Chicote” you don’t seem to be that sharp of a “whip”.
Yes, if you are here illegally. Look, sign your name when you come in and don’t expect to be treated differently than anyone else who comes here. The very fact that many of these individuals sneak in has got to tell you something.
Also, as for drugs, if you want them legalized, fight to change the law. Then again, how can we since most Americans are past their eyeballs in debt, see my post above, and can’t take the time to really affect any change in this country.
No, chicote, that’s called conspiracy.
You mean like when Tony Soprano makes a “business transaction” to have somebody “Hit’?
I guess I have to be clear - theft, murder, rape, fraud, etc, are all crimes. Sometimes I assume that these things are obvious to everyone. Anything that involves aggression or outright deception is a crime. Anything that doesn’t, isn’t. Using those guidelines, I conclude that mowing a lawn is not a crime.
Also, as for drugs, if you want them legalized, fight to change the law.
That’s an excellent idea, and anyone can do this by campaigning for a libertarian, or at the very least, voting for one.
how can we since most Americans are past their eyeballs in debt
Ahh, full circle. Unfortunately, human nature is such that they will blame all of their problems on everyone else, rather than admit that they were stupid for taking out an option arm mortgage. The result will be harsh immigration laws that strengthen the police state. So I’ll have to be ready to be stopped and interrogated by border patrol every time I drive west on Ajo out of Tucson (which by the way is more than 50 miles from the border). Oh wait, that’s the way it is now.
posted ” Do you think that the US Code supersedes your God-given rights? ”
Yes in the USA it does. Buy a history book and have your mom read it to you.
Exactly. AE., Exactly.
“I drive west on Ajo out of Tucson (which by the way is more than 50 miles from the border). Oh wait, that’s the way it is now.”
Things must have changed over the years. I remember sitting at the McDonalds at the Nogales/Nogales Entry point and watching guys drop off that fence like raindrops off a tin roof in a thunderstorm. Kids begging, very dismal scene. Couldn’t believe I was on American soil at the time. If you don’t think that’s a problem and it’s not draining the resources you’re sorely mistaken.
“Sometimes I assume that these things are obvious to everyone.”
I guess you do for a dumb guy like imploder. He not smart like “chicote.”
Well imploder, I would suggest reading the Declaration of Independence. It is a statement where the founders of this country say that their creator has endowed them with unalienable rights, and that those rights supersede any of the King’s laws. It’s the entire basis of the formation of the United States. But we’ve forgotten. Now we have central banks, a welfare state, huge federal income taxes, national education systems (as opposed to locally based), and a government that requires you to ask it permission to live your life. Enjoy!
“He (the King) has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers”
quote from the “Declaration of Independence” as a specific reason why the US seperated from the British Empire.
Thanks for the history lesson Chicote
Hey checan you post “I would suggest reading the Declaration of Independence.”
Too bad Messico don’t have one. Then you could read your own. Too bad Messico is one of the most corrupt country’s in the world. BTY that is saying a lot. Don’t come over here and foul this air and land with your mud and filth.
Don’t talk about things you and your ilk are unworthy of. Get your own house in order first.
chicote:
Because the U.S.Code authorizes the citizenry, through congressional representation, to do so. Pick your Code - its all there:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/toc.html
~Misstrial
Do you think that the US Code supersedes your God-given rights?
Oh, now we talk about God-given rights. Well, if that is the course, how about debt forgiveness every 7 years? It is in the Bible. Hey, I will admit that I am a Christian, but that I still have to give Caeser what Caeser is due. If you don’t like the law, change it then. I would personally like to see debt forgiveness, and no, I don’t have 100K in credit cards or a home mortgage to pay. I would also wish everyone believed in God, but it ain’t gonna happen. Hey, when everyone in this country is clothed, fed, and housed PROPERLY, and has a living wage job, then we will take on the role of funding the rest of the world. Christ says to love your neighbor as yourself, well then take care of America first, then we can handle the rest of the world.
Who’s God would that be Chicote? YOURS…RIGHT?
Well here’s the thing, and this always cracks me up with advocates.
1.) He throws out the God aspect or god given right.If you look in the Bible it will tell you that you’re supposed to obey the laws of man the land whatever. I’m not real high on the religion but from a debate I had years ago I know that particular passage is in there. I’m sure someone here can quote chapter and verse and but I’m sure that passage doesn’t apply to his version of God. It’s amazing how flexible religion is but I digress…
2.)Then he says drugs should be legal cause it will create jobs. Yea ok, the last thing I want is a meth zombie within 10 feet of me.
3.) And then the third one, the free society rant. Based on the fact that a corporation is considered a living person and if 2 people make an agreement there should be no repercussions. Yea, prisons are filled with people who thought that way.
Doesn’t it all sound familliar to you? It does to me, it sounds just like Mexico. No thanks, shut up get in line like everyone else or go back and make your place better.
Don’t tread on me.
mrincomestream, this “working is not a crime” happens to be a LaRaza and bleeding heart crowd talking point. It’s a way of trying to get around the fact that illegal immigrants are committing a crime 24/7, every day their feet are on American soil. Google LaRaza and similar groups some time. Very enlightening.
Who’s God would that be Chicote? YOURS…RIGHT?
Not necessarily, I’m talking about the “Creator” - the one mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. That document outlines very well why this country was created in the first place.
Badges? We don’t need no stinkin’ badges!
chicote in a nutshell
“That document outlines very well why this country was created in the first place.”
So now you wish to talk about the written documents from which the “LAWS” of this country sprang forth and without the adherence too said documents the US becomes not the beacon of freedom. Nice circular argument.
Chicote,… The rule of Law, IS FREEDOM .
The rule of Law, IS FREEDOM
I agree. And I don’t think that government bailouts, regulated credit markets and a welfare state, which are all part of our US Code (the “law”), are consistent with our unalienable rights.
Like Ben Franklin said…
“A republic, if you can keep it.”
I guess we’ll have to tolerate our periodic economic upheavals and financial bubbles because our central planners know best. When the fed starts bailing out Fannie Mae and the MBS markets by printing up a few trillion, you’ll have to say “hey it’s the law and it’s written in the US Code, so it must be OK.”
Wait, actually I don’t agree…
The rule of law is not freedom. Freedom is freedom. The purpose of law and of the government is to secure those freedoms. Big difference.
You are attempting to redirect the argument as we were discussing immigration, so I’ll stop responding now. By all means consider it a victory.
Have you read the first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence? If you have, what you are stating at this point is that you wish to overthrow the government of the United States of America.
My previous post was addressed to your post about MBS, printing, etc.
As to this:
The rule of law is not freedom. Freedom is freedom.
Without law, the only freedom available is for the strong and at the end of a gun barrel. Those who think otherwise are foolish. I prefer what the US has and will work to preserve it.
If you have, what you are stating at this point is that you wish to overthrow the government of the United States of America.
Never really thought of it that way. I would hope voting for better representatives would ultimately do the trick.
I would highly suggest reading the document completely. It is much more complex that you make it out to be.
If the laws change, it is my duty as an American to respect those laws even if I do not appreciate the potential outcome.
Now that you state that you would vote for better representatives, how do you think that the power has been invested in them? Was it through some Natural Law? Most certainly not. You have given them the power.
In your case of saying that illegal immigrants are breaking the law, but it is a bad law and should be ignored, you have now stripped the lawmakers of their powers that you have given unto them. Any law becomes toothless without obedience from the populace that has enacted these laws through their representatives and proper enforcement of the laws by governmental personnel. Does anybody see that with our illegal immigration dilema?
Yes some laws turn out to be incredibly stupid, repressive and morally reprehensible, but that is the price to be paid in representative government. But with this type of government there is the possibility for the changing of these laws without the degrading of the rule of law or violent overthrow.
We all want to ignore laws we do not like; it is just not a reasonable action given the potential consequences.
Prudence comes before action.
mrincomestream,
You insinuate that I said 3 things that I didn’t.
1) I don’t quote fairy tales.
2) Drugs should be legal, not because it “creates jobs”. How absurd! If you want to take meth in the privacy of your own home and destroy your own life, fine. Go for it, I don’t care. But I don’t think I should be paying for your dental work while you’re a guest of the state for 5-10.
3) Forming a corporation makes it way too easy for the owners to evade responsibility when there is a loss. You get freedom, but you also get responsibility.
1) You were the first to mention God-given right God being the head fairy in the tale I dismiss your statement about not quoting fairy tales.
2.) OK maybe you’re right you win. Legalizing drugs however other than marijuana (hey I’m from California what do you expect) too me is a big no no. Especially if it rescinds urinalysis(sp?) or drug screening for what I consider key positons. The last thing I want is a coked out pilot on a major airline. Legalizing drugs would be a stupid move marijuana included if it reduces screening in any way.
3.) Responsibility for your actions is what the issue is all about. Be responsible go back to your country get in line try again. What’s so hard about that. I’ll tell you. It’s the responsible thing to do taking accountability showing that you would be an asset instead of a leech which creates situations where valuable infrastructure, services, and programs are shut down or go away because you’re not putting your fair share into the sytem. I mean think about it if illegals were really paying their fair share of taxes, health care costs etc.. all the while making minium wage or less do you really think these people could afford an 800 sqft Compton special for 500k or be able to send money home I think not. It would take 30 per house to make that feasible if they were putting in their fair share to the system. Advocates are only fooling themselves with that argument.
If the laws change, it is my duty as an American to respect those laws even if I do not appreciate the potential outcome.
Duty? No way. You are required to follow the law or else you face the consequences - the men with guns show up at your door and destroy your life.
In your case of saying that illegal immigrants are breaking the law, but it is a bad law and should be ignored, you have now stripped the lawmakers of their powers that you have given unto them.
Um, I never said that it should be ignored, just that it doesn’t supersede your unalienable rights. That’s what unalienable means. The problem with ignoring the law is that the government, as Ron Paul would say, “has all the guns”- so you better do what they say.
mrincomestream,
1) ok. But I still think the constitution and declaration of independence still are (or should be) applicable in today’s world.
2) An airline should have the right to enforce its own standards - such as drug testing without the government coming in and telling them they can’t do it.
3) You say:
do you really think these people could afford an 800 sq ft Compton special for 500k
Only in a fully regulated credit market, where creating money out of thin air is the norm, and there exists a lender of last resort to bail everyone out and rid them of any responsibility for anything. Basically what we have today!
1.) In a grand sense it does for American citizens. Right or wrong racist or whatever, I don’t think it applies to illegal aliens. Actually I think it was a kiss of death for the illegals to take to the street marching. Not their right to do so and if anything cast a light on just how big a problem it is. They should have stuck with the out of site out of mind mode of operandi.
2.) No I don’t agree with that. Case in point I happen to believe that rent control is the stupidest law on the books and it should be retracted. Does it benefit me if it’s retracted? yep is it in the best interest of the public. Depending on who you ask probably not. Because if it was left to me or one of my companies to self regulate, there would probably be a lot of undeserving people on the streets.
3.) You butchered my comment and your response was BS. I leave it as it is.
chitcan posts “Like Ben Franklin said…
Gas em’….I think that was him?
Hmm. From people on here it seems the Constitution Party has taken over.
Next step, Mormonism will be made illegal.
But surely the illegal immigrant labor is part of the homebuilders’ highly-profitable new business model…
I am furious. Every sleeze bag talk show guru in Southern Cal that kept moving investors from Vega, to Phoenix, to Florida, to
Tenn., is now telling their clients they predicted this blow out.
What a bunch of scumbags. Here is the latest from Norm and Mike, two hotshots that hyped this market right up to the release of the 3rd quarter government numbers. Now they are trying to Cover Their BS,.
Economy
From one end of the country to the other, including Hawaii, real estate activity and prices are down significantly. Third quarter statistics ending September 30 are not released yet, but they will be humbling. There is NO place that you can look with any certainty of getting double digit appreciation. Yes, there are some “hot pockets”, but much is speculator driven and probably unsustainable.
As a general rule, sales ACTIVITY is down 25-30% percent and prices are all over the place. Las Vegas currently has over 23,000 homes on the market for sale, and that does NOT include new housing tracts of which there are over 500 of them. And fully 10% of the inventory is in foreclosure or a possible short sale. Phoenix inventory states over 54,000 properties for sale as of the last reporting.
Even our own local Southern California economy is down with four straight months of LOWER prices. Some of the states report scary numbers that are even worse than those from the early 90’s “recession” and from the early 80’s, too. New home builders are reporting cancellation rates of over 50% of their sales. WHY is all this happening? Because no one wants to buy “at the top of the market”, which by all indications was probably in early summer. Much is due to the psychological affects of the changing market place. The Fed appears to NOT be interested in raising rates and all indications show no change till 2007, with MOST experts and people on the street looking for a rate DROP in the first 6 months of 2007. Overall employment numbers look good, but much of the problem is psychological, and buyers NOT being motivated. We’ve said it before: “The Perception is the Reality” and mass hysteria CAN make the unthinkable come true.
bet it doesn’t fetch 60k an nare lately
RE info is always old- except on this blog
“The ‘players’ make a killing, and who wouldn’t with taxpayers paying for water, freeways, flood control and other assets needed to make the deals worthwhile.”
Buy that writer a beer! I can’t believe that got printed in the AZ Repugnant.
He’s a regular writer, too.
One of their best columnists, too. Wish we had one like him here in Tucson.
“The public costs keep accumulating, but you ain’t seen nothing yet. The “players” will be long gone with their profits when the roof falls in. And then this state of strutting individualists can once again turn to Washington for a bailout. But this reclamation project will likely be beyond Washington’s capacities or willingness.”
WTF - This reads like a preliminary call for the Federal Government to come in and straighten things out! “It is not our fault uncle Sam - the flippers and speculators are the ones that caused our fair state to go into BK.” Take personal responsibility - not once in the last 12 years did you write “prices are to high due to investors or speculators” or “Uncontrolled building is using up valuable water” . Where was the state government in controlling a vanishing resource - water? Now uncontrolled building, lack of water, inadaquate highways, and “not my fault”.
I don’t read it like that at all. What I think this calls for is for the developers to pay the true cost they incur. If they want to build in the middle of nowhere, fine with me; they can foot the bill upfront for the water, utilities, roads, and emergency services. I’m not willing to use MY tax dollars to subsidize their profits.
The limited responsibility inherent in corporate status is enough of a government subsidy.
Here in Colorado, most of the city councils are in bed with the developers. We’d had rampant overdevelopment and a Biblical plague of California equity locusts. No one in authority pays any attention to the long-term sustainability of all that growth. Already a lot of Colorado water is being sucked up by California, despite the fact that we’ve had seven years of drought.
If you want to see a gem of an indie movie about Colorado and its politics, rent “Silver City.” It’s an excellent flick with some big names — Richard Dreyfus, Daryl Hannah, Chris Cooper (the guy who played the crazy neighbor in AMERICAN BEAUTY) and is both intelligent and extremely entertaining.
awesome movie, Sammy…
btw, thanks…now I’m imaging a horde of locust with Moses beards IN BED with CO city council members wearing nothing but Merrell hiking boots.
Icky.
“Coursin my favorite Chris Cooper movie is Lone Star. Same Director IIRC.
“What baffles me is why the real estate industry retains such a united front in the face of the obvious perils Arizona faces.”
The answer is obvious. They want the money now. Tomorrow, when the problems surface, they will be long gone. Hey, it’s the AMERICAN WAY! Me first, where’s mine, and, up yours. What could be better?
privatization of profit and socialization of risk.
Or, rephrased, “privatized gains, socialized losses”.
There is no need for a border fence, just raise interest rates .
Or should I say stop keepng them artificially low. No jobs, no illegals.
to solve the illegal problem we have to help the mexican economy. with high inflation rates that seem permenant and our drug habit causing drug violence in mexico, I don’t see much hope long-term. how many people have left because of the drug violence? what does that do to the economy that makes still more people leave for the US?
John Law, this is something many people don’t comprehend. Don’t get me wrong, I think illegal immigration is a disgrace and I’ll be happy to give my thoughts on that further down, but what needs to be understood is how the policies of the US have had a hand in creating this problem. For starters, NAFTA, CAFTA and other similar legislation has caused a situation where cheap corn and other commodities exported from the US into Mexico undercuts the Mexican farmers and deprives them of a rightful living. So repealing that legislation would go a long way to help. Secondly, Mexico exports 80% of its oil to the US, through the state owned PEMEX, but very little of that money reached the illegals who come here. So it is all about the corporations. They give us their oil and in return, we have to take their undesirables. A good energy policy and alternative sources of fuel would go a long way toward solving the illegal immigration problem. Also, fewer would come if the outdated anchor baby legislation, which was originally meant to protect the children of former African American slaves, was repealed. Fewer would come if they didn’t get the benefits that have been made available.
You may very well be on to something.
Did any one see the recent “South Park” about aliens coming from the future and taking everyone’s jobs? “They took my Job!” It was funny!
I love the South Park guys…total mad skills! Unlike 99% of other social satirists, they are so funny.
I agree. They are completely unbridled.
ok everyone, back to the pile!
LMAO. What is that goopy stuff on their shoulders?
“ok everyone, back to the pile!”
P.S. This describes the US Congressional response perfectly!
I saw it.
It remains to be seen if the “players” make a killing, or get killed. I’m betting on the latter. Doubling down does not seem like the smart move just now.
Woo-Hoo! Future Low Income Housing for Everyone!
Are we seeing the really nasty side of capitalism in the modern era? What will be the damage to the common good as each and every person and each and every business demands the freedom to pursue their private greed at any cost? Can our nation withstand this kind of lunacy much longer? When will the middle class realize that their future is highly compromised as the economic elite grab an every larger slice of the common pie?
Will be be driven to a hard recession or even a depression and only then realize that we are a society and a community and not just a collection of predators? Why did we back away from regulating business interests? Was it because those very business interests used their wealth and power to demolish regulations that were set up to protect the public? Will this change?
Things to think about as we approach the holiday where we give thanks.
Richard Dreyfuss was on Real Time with Bill Maher, and he made some good points regarding the state of our country and how it is time to start teaching civics to our children in order to right this ship before it sinks for good.
I have to say I was extremely impressed with Richard Dreyfuss’s performance on RTwBM. He was extremely well spoken and very calm in presenting his opinions. Worth watching if only to see how to calm down a heated argument and get people to really listen to you. Wish I had more of his style.
by all means, bring on socialism (or even better, communism).
Capitalism stinks. Unfortunately, its far better, far freer, far more moral than anything else man has devised. More people are better off under capitalism than anywhere else in the world.
So, by all means lament the bad outcomes that a free market sometimes produces. Suggest and even make improvements. But if for a minute you imagine the alternatives will magically replace all woe with sunshine and sugar I suggest you do study a bit the failures of other economic systems. They make capitalism, warts and all, look like heaven.
The main problem with capitalism is deregulation. Regulation is needed becasue of one mitigating factor. COLLUSION. Sure, everyone spout s off that one should just choose another airline or gas station, but it is pretty hard to do when they ALL charge fairly close to the same amount. And remember this, even if you find that hole in the wall mom and pop joint selling what you need at a much less price, keep in mind that they can only supply so many of us at that price. Also, you may have a hard time finding that mom and pop joint, so you are still stuck with some slob that charges you rates or prices for services that would make a godfather blush. In theory capitalism is great. The problem is uncontrolled greed and collusion.
Pointing out the dark side of capitalism does not equate to promoting socialism or communism. Sad how so many people look at complex issues like they are at a sports game where you root for one side and boo the other.
After WWII the USA seemed to moving pretty consistently towards a system of regulated capitalism. Seemed to work fairly well. More and more people were able to join the prosperous middle-class. But the combination of Reagan era deregulation and Clinton era globalism have dealt a one-two punch to the gut of the American middle class.
Deregulate business enough and you will get an endless series of Enrons, Tycos, Worldcoms and Housing Bubbles - not to mention polluted skies and decimated forests. Capitalistic enterprises are not able to restrain themselves from profitable despoilment.
A return to reasonable regulation and a trade policy that actually benefits the citizens of this country hardly makes for socialism.
“After WWII the USA seemed to moving pretty consistently towards a system of regulated capitalism. Seemed to work fairly well. More and more people were able to join the prosperous middle-class.”
With Asian and European infrastructure and manufacturing capacity destroyed by war the U.S. enjoyed a huge advantage, and the middleclass folks did well. Today, the world is competitive again.
It’s not really a free market when corporate lobbyists basically write the laws that are passed. Example, the new bankruptcy laws. I think they were written by the credit card companies. I don’t want socialism or communism, but I want the gov’t to have the interest of the people in mind.
Capitalism gives us more freedom than the alternatives and is probably more consistent with “human nature”. My pessimism about the next century has less to do w/ any political system than with the FUNGUS that is humankind. The Al Gore movie’s science was correct (I can say this cuz I didn’t vote for Gore.) But his proposed solutions were lame. We need to lose about 95% of the human population to give the earth a chance. The reproductive imperative and other characteristics that made us a dominant species now threaten to ruin our habitat.
Okay B&C
I lurve the looks of this place. How grossly overpriced is it
http://flagstaff.craigslist.org/rfs/236383346.html
I particularly like the way the cord for the TV stretches across the doorway. That’s a real selling feature in my book.
NOooooo! I know that neighborhood (it’s in Mesa, not Flagstaff)…you might as well move to Nogales, put your car up on blocks before someone else does, and move your sofa out to the yard next to the keg.
lol, figures
Still. The style was nice. Craftsman homey. Too bad so may cool old houses are often in the deteriorating neighborhoods.
PS Please tell me that is NOT a hub cap collection in the bedroom photo! I know a person that has one… in his futile defense… at least it’s on his Garage Wall!
“Bernal said friends have left their families behind and gone to Phoenix for work. Others interviewed for this story knew people who had done the same.”
I admire their desire to work and travel to distant locales when the well has dried up in one area, regardless of the hardships it creates on their families. What the market giveth, the market taketh away.
As long as middle class has political correctness into their collective heads the middle class will be squeezed out, sympathy for illegals when we can’t look after our own poor.
I forget the illegals will buy RE near cheap Nuke Power plants
$60k/acre isn’t cheap.
I agree.
Those towers will be built right in the middle of Fiesta Mall - anyone who lives near there knows that that mall is basically the Ghetto Mall. That whole area in a downturn. 900 check cashing and “paydown loan” places is not something i want to be looking at while living in my nice condo. Mesa Community College is right there, as well as EVIT. That whole Mesa/Tempe border is slumville. Thank god i live in NE mesa.
And they plan to charge $200k-700k per unit!
500k will get you a beautiful view of the US60, The run down Circuit City and the completely abanonded strip mall!
I’ve said this before, but Phoenix will eat itself.
that’s what amazes me about the housing bubble. bubble are rushing so far into this housing bubble they don’t take the time to think about their financial security and are risking their personal security. those areas will only get worse in a downturn as crime always goes up during a recession. they’re buying golden(more like rusting) jails to live in. your home is your castle might take on a new meaning.
pass the boiling hot water and the arrows, please.
Did those bozos not look down the road at the now abandoned/foreclosed/potential DES housing project across from Chandler Mall, complete with about a zillion mechanic liens, and not LEARN SOMETHING??? Criminy, I’m gettin’ so sick of reading about these idiots.
Housing Correction: Back to the ’60s
By Jim Griffin
RealMoney.com Contributor
11/20/2006 3:00 PM EST
URL: http://www.thestreet.com/p/rmoney/economy/10323330.html
There was good news and bad news, or perhaps decent news in an ugly wrapping. October’s numbers for consumer price inflation and for housing activity both gave evidence of abrupt deceleration.
In the case of prices, that’s clearly welcome news, given that inflation continues to lurk above the Fed’s toleration level — and of the market’s as well, in the long run, even if it appears unconcerned right now.
The headline consumer price index dropped sharply, driven by a plunge in energy prices. The core index slowed more modestly, but nevertheless delivered a data-point in support of the Fed’s projection that inflation should ease over the year ahead.
It takes a bit of contortionism, however, in order to see a bright side on the nosedive trajectory in housing starts and permits. Whether it was a bubble or not, a correction is undoubtedly under way in homebuilding; the builders themselves are believers, to infer from their survey responses.
The speed of adjustment is the veiled good news here: the faster you approach your destination, the sooner you get there. Harrowing though it may be, the sooner the excesses are wrung out of housing, the better for the economy in general.
The risk with abrupt adjustments lies in the stress they put on the system, in this case on the buyers, builders and lenders who make up this business. So far, however, there has been little evidence of financial distress that would call into question the assertion that faster is better. This housing correction, in contrast to others in the past, is taking place in a setting of high employment, modest inflation, low interest rates, abundant liquidity, deeply capitalized banks and flexible risk dispersion through the capital markets.
In the chart below, the precipitous drop in housing numbers bears a resemblance to other corrections, most of which were associated with economywide recessions. Two differences are worth mentioning: One is that monetary restraint was a causal factor in prior swoons and it is absent today; the other is the current housing cycle did not go straight up, straight down in the manner of its predecessors. It is now correcting after an extended, multiyear climb. How it got up should be an argument in how it gets down.
Inflation Moves in the Right Direction…
While Housing Is Getting There Fast
American housing boomed on “other people’s money,” i.e., on access to the fire-hose flows of foreign savings that have sought employment in U.S. capital markets over the past 15 years. Those flows reflect one side of the great imbalance in trade and finance that hangs over the global economy today.
If that imbalance is to be righted, one necessary side effect will be shrinkage in U.S. investment relative to U.S. saving, and housing demand in the current cycle has been the primary outlier from past experience in the “excesses” of U.S. investment.
When I first started in the business, U.S. Commerce Department charts showed that a recession had occurred in 1966-67. Revised history shows that it didn’t happen because the correction was redefined as having been restricted to a housing spasm, one that didn’t spread widely enough to meet the 3-D (depth, duration, diffusion) standard for a full-blown recession.
The current experience shapes up as back to the future.
“The current experience shapes up as back to the future.”
Back to the future is more likely to feature overlapping recessions in the homebuilding industry and the broad economy. See my analysis in the bits bucket for the evidence — the late 1960’s episode was the anomoly.
Huzzah. Maybe there is hope for America after all. Per Yahoo:
“NEW YORK - After a firestorm of criticism, News. Corp. said Monday that it has canceled the O.J. Simpson book and television special “If I Did It.” “
It will be on youtube soon enough.
I’ve met him.
Youtube? What’s he like? Republican, I’m sure…
imploder posts ” Youtube? What’s he like? Republican ”
That is Republican bathroom talk to pages
With regards to illegals, there is talk about putting up some huge fence between USA and Mexico. Giving the timing, I bet the fence is to keep the in-debted Americans from running to Mexico, not to keep the Mexicans out of America.
The bankruptcy bunker.
Is it meant to keep in the illegals who were buying houses on SoCal with no-doc I/Os and Neg Ams too? Because I guarantee you that bunch will be looking to high tail back over the border when the construction jobs dry up and they can’t make the mortgage payments on the $500K crap box they bought some where in San Bernadino or SD county.
Are you crazy? They are not going to go back? Even unemployed and homeless they are in better shape here. Free social services, medical, homeless shelters? Have a baby in the US and now you have even more access to the “social net”. Nothing like that in Mexico.
Right.
And then after the illegals turn this country into the same $h!thole that they escaped, Canada is going to have to build a fence to stop US citizens from crashing its border.
Look out, Canucks, we’re coming…!!!!!
Oh, the “guest workers” I know, at least these guys, have every intention of moving back with their $$$ and buying the best joint on the block in their village in Oaxaca…
When did this forum become a place in which attitudes of hate are tolerated? We no longer make open racist remarks against blacks. We don’t openly make fun of homosexuals. Yet, lashing out against Mexicans (”the illegals”) is considered perfectly acceptable. The whole debate is a scapegoating exercise. I don’t advocate breaking the law, but I have a distaste for the prejudiced and divisive tone that is often evoked.
Although I don’t like “racist” speech myself, I can’t imagine why talking about illegal immigration should be forbidden or taboo. It is a VERY important topic for this country, and trying to stop discussion of illegal immigration and its effects simply because a majority of illegal immigrants have dark skin and speak Spanish is, well, RETARDED.
Come one, I’m mostly black and I don’t see anything racist about the conversation they were having.
Bottom line, most working class Americans, white and black are getting pissed about not having jobs, and having their wages lowered and having to compete with millions of newscomers. If they were whites from Russia, people would still be pissed. Its about economics. People are starting to understand that their leaders have screwed them.
The topic itself is not a problem - it’s the manner in which it is discussed. I’d rather face racism matter-of-factly than through backhanded remarks. No progress is made of this “very important topic” when we are just ranting about our anecdotal encounters with illegal immigrants, or our perceived notions of their drain on our economy, or causes of other social ills. Dialogue becomes impaired and the discussion becomes a one-sided pep rally - although, sometimes I sense that people take liberty in being more cynical, and sarcastic to the point of being rude because we can hide behind our computer screens. I am not for illegal immigration. But the tendency to blame illegal immigrants for social ills is myopic, and distorts the policy-making process.
Chuen,
Stop your politically correct whining. Everyone has a right to his or her own ideas.
That is what is wrong with this country is politically correct people like you.
If anyone tells the truth politically correct people call them a racist or a hatemonger. The truth is that the Illegals are lawbreakers and deserve no sympathy.
They are causing this country great problems.
captain jack sparrow, I can stop the the PC whining, but I wouldn’t necessary equate political incorrectness with truth. My point exactly is that people’s exaggerated opinions are usually far from the the truth - and whether it’s branded as PC or non-PC doesn’t particularly add any merit to the opinion. Not being PC is just branded mass media rhetoric used by both conservative Glenn Beck and liberal Jon Stewart. The bantering and divisive nature of our political culture is that what causes great problems for the country. Policies that ought to be based on common sense are compromised by emotions.
chuen,
I’m not seeing any “hate” here. I agree with the others. If telling the truth is “racist”, then so be it.
Many of us **anecdotally** foretold the housing bubble, long before it was legitimized in the MSM. When the same “anecdotes” are being told by people from all across the nation, it is no longer “anecdotal”, IMHO; it is fact.
If you doubt the effects of illegal immigration on our infrastructure, job market, housing market, wages and quality of life, you need to get out more. Talk to teachers, hospital workers, prison guards, social service workers, welfare adminstrators, etc. There is NO DOUBT illegal immigration is causing tremendous problems in this country. If you have a different opinion from the majority of Americans who are affected by our immigration policies, you are free to express yourself; but watch out for that “hate/racist” lecture. It is very old and no longer effective. We couldn’t care less about policial correctness anymore; it’s time for the truth to be told.
BTW, It’s not that I don’t have sympathy for many of these immigrants (my mother was a LEGAL immigrant), but the problems these people face is a direct result of their own country’s political corruption. The solution to the problem is not to import the poverty to the US, but to fix the cause of poverty in Latin American countries.
A fence would be an environmental disaster.
No, this is an eco-disaster:
http://www.azanderson.org/anderson_report_border_trash.htm
And our government know about it too:
http://usinfo.state.gov/eap/east_asia_pacific/chinese_human_smuggling/smuggling
posted ” A fence would be an environmental disaster.”
Mine fields, tringulated machine-guns, flame throwers and low flying jets with napam. Much better!
Napalm sticks to illegals.
No fence has been an economic disaster for any working-class American living in a border state for 30 years running. I’d welcome any alleged risk of “environmental disaster” over the status quo!
BTW … Having no fence on the border has been an environmental disaster in the border region. Vast areas on the border have been trashed by illegals leaving their garbage all over the place. We’re talking TONS of garbage. Give me a good, solid fence (or wall) any day.
I find it ironic that every time I see a piece about the border fence on TV, they show a clip of an already existing fence with a bunch of illegals climbing over it. Remind me again what the fence is supposed to accomplish?
In all likelihood, the fence will be built by some construction company that hires illegals. I wonder which side of the fence the 7-11 will be where they pick up the day-laborers to build the fence.
OR…….we could just enforce the laws we already have on the books. So…who is breaking the law here? could it be the people who employ them? It would seem that an attempt at enforcement of said laws would be the most prudent first step. If that dose not work than go ahead and put up your silly fence. History note: The construction of the Great Wall of China was the beginning of the end for the Ming Dynasty. Enter the Mongoul hords!!
Land near the nuke plant now fetches $60,000 an acre.”
Gotta be laundered drug money and 3rd world dictator lootings financing this garbage.
This is so worth reading about risk appetites in various asset classes, including RE
Jeff Saut Presents: A Kids’ Market?!
MV Respect
Nov 20, 2006 11:00 am
…it is difficult to break the markets “down” during the latter half of December.
Editor’s Note: The following article was written by Raymond James Chief Investment Strategist, Jeff Saut. It has been reproduced with permission for the benefit of the Minyanville community.
“’My solution to the current market.’ the Great Winfield said, ‘Kids. This is a kids’ market. This is Billy the Kid, Johnny the Kid, and Sheldon the Kid.’
‘Aren’t they cute?’ the Great Winfield asked. ‘Aren’t they fuzzy? Look at them, like teddy bears. It’s their market. I have taken them on for the duration.’
‘I give them a little stake, they find the stocks, and we split the profits,’ he said. ‘Billy the Kid here started with five thousand dollars and has run it up over half a million in the last six months.’ ‘Wow!’ I said. I asked Billy the Kid how he did it.
‘Computer leasing stocks, sir!’ he said, like a cadet being quizzed by an upper classman. ‘The need for computers is practically infinite,’ said Billy the Kid. ‘Leasing has proved the only way to sell them, and computer companies themselves do not have the capital. Therefore, earnings will be up a hundred percent this year, will double next year, and will double again the year after. The surface has barely been scratched. The rise has scarcely begun.’
‘Look at the skepticism on the face of this dirty old man,’ said the Great Winfield, pointing at me. ‘Look at him, framing questions about depreciation, about how fast these computers are written off. I know what he’s going to ask. He’s going to ask what makes a finance company worth fifty times earnings. Right?’ ‘Right,’ I admitted.
Billy the Kid smiled tolerantly, well aware that the older generation has trouble figuring out the New Math, the New Economics, and the New Market. ‘You can’t make any money with questions like that,’ said the Great Winfield. ‘They show you’re middle-age, they show your generation. Show me a portfolio, I’ll tell you the generation.’
‘See? See?’ said the Great Winfield. ‘The flow of the seasons! Life begins again! It’s marvelous! It’s like having a son! My boys! My kids!’”
…“The Money Game” by Adam Smith
The Great Winfield goes on to say, in Adam Smith’s classic 1967 book, “The strength of my kids is that they’re too young to remember anything bad, and they are making so much money they feel invincible.” He rented kids with the idea that one day the music will stop (it partially did in 1969-1970 and completely did in 1973-1974) and all of them will be broke but one. That one will be the Arthur Rock (legendary venture capitalist) of the new generation; Winfield will keep him.
Obviously, folks, I am back from my sojourn where it became abundantly clear that the “kids” are currently outperforming the stock market’s “greybeards” as the Warren Buffetts and John Templetons of the world worry about such silly things as optimistic valuations, waning earnings’ momentum, a slowing economy, a housing debacle, etc.
Speaking first to valuations, my firm has often stated that the best representative index for the average stock is not the S&P 500, but the ValueLine Index. At its peak the median P/E ratio of the ValueLine Index was 20.9x (see Chart 1 below). Currently its P/E ratio is 18.3x, and while not as expensive as it was at its zenith, it is certainly not “cheap” by historic standards. Second, as for earnings momentum, if you deduct share repurchases, and seasonally adjust earnings, one finds that earnings momentum has been slowing since 4Q ‘05 and is currently tracking toward mid-single digits. Third, recent reports leave little doubt that the economy is slowing. Indeed, GDP, capex shipments, ISM, private payrolls, Industrial Production, Existing Home sales, retail sales, et al, have been contracting. The lone stand-out arguing for economic strength remains governmental tax receipts, which continue to record low double-digit growth readings. Plainly that just does not “foot” with the recent 1.6% GDP report.
Other “non-footers” include: 1) A personal U.S. savings rate that appears to have bottomed, implying that Americans are saving more. This is not an unimportant observation, for it can be argued that for every 1% increase in the nation’s savings rate the business sector loses roughly $100 billion in profits. 2) Reinforcing point one is a rare event that saw consumer credit actually get paid down in September with a concurrent reduction in bank lending to households during the month of October. 3) That begs the question, “following the Goldman Sachs-induced crash in gasoline prices, which have subsequently rebounded now that the gasoline weighting has been cut from 7.3% to 2.5% in Goldman’s much indexed commodity index, why have the retail stocks held up so well?!” 4) Evidently Amazon (AMZN) and Wal-Mart (WMT) don’t believe the retail rebound is sustainable since they are cutting their respective capex spending budgets. 5) And why, pray tell, does the U.S. Dollar Index remain amazingly resilient in light of low interest rates and given the fact that China, Russia, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Switzerland, New Zealand, etc. all telegraphed that they are reducing their weightings of U.S. Dollar reserves? 6) Why did the SEC, in mid- October, reduce margin requirements for select investments by hedge funds? 7) How in the world can “guest workers” sue U.S. companies for under-paying them (USA Today 11/15/06)?
I could go on, but you get the idea…there are a lot of disconnects currently.
Meanwhile, participants have continued to increase their “risk profile,” as seen in the nearby chart from Merrill Lynch (see Chart 2 below), with an attendant parabolic rise in the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA). My firm have seen such parabolic rises before, most recently in gold’s upside blow-off between March and May of this year (we were sellers of gold back then), and historically such moves have tended to end badly. Verily, since the July “lows” the DJIA has truly gone parabolic. Interestingly, of the Dow’s 1500-point gain over those 87 sessions, roughly 1300 points have come during only 12 sessions where the often mentioned “mysterious buyers” showed up in the futures markets. This unnatural sequence has left the DJIA residing at nearly an unprecedented 1000 points above its 200-day moving average (at 11341 DMA) and well over-bought relative to its MACD and Relative Strength Indicators (RSI).
What does this mean to my firm? Well, except for our token long trading positions in the Volatility Index (VIX), which has so far been a losing trade, we remain “flat” in the trading account. Not so, however, in my firm’s investment account, where we are 60% long stocks, 10% long fixed income, and 30% in cash. Fortunately, many of our investment positions “came to life” during our absence with positions like Sprint Nextel (S) traveling above $20.00 per share. Likewise, Chesapeake Energy’s (CHK) 5%-yielding convertible preferred has rallied from $91.00 to $100.00, Chicago Bridge & Iron (CBI) lifted from the low $20s, RFID player Intermec (IN) rallied, homeland security participant L-1 Identity Solutions (ID) “popped”…all of which have kept my firm outperforming the various indices. One name that has stalled, however, has been Convanta (CVA), which we have recommended since the mid-teens. Given the fact that CVA plays to everything needed in the environment we envision going forward, we suggest familiarizing yourselves with the CVA story. As well, we suggest you re-consider my firm’s long-standing recommendation on electric-grid participant ITC Holdings (ITC).
The call for this week: My firm was aggressively bullish at the mid-June trading lows, and currently we are aggressively cautious. While that stance has cost us relative performance points recently, we continue to believe that you should not put in your “Rent-a-Kid” application right here because we think we are well past the hiring stage in this bull phase. Indeed, some of the “kids” are well on their way to going broke, like Armand Amaranth, Roger Real Estate, Larry Leverage, Jimmy Junk bond, and the over-leveraged dance continues. My firm’s ideal trading pattern calls for a trading “top” during this holiday week, leading to a correction into the second week of December, which would set up the fabled year-end rally. Whether this plays or not, only time will tell, but we have learned the hard way it is difficult to break the markets “down” during the latter half of December. However, when the markets do break down in December it can be significant…hello 2002, which saw the DJIA fall from its December high of 9000 into its March 2003 low of 7400. Consequently, we find ourselves left with a George Soros quote from the year 2000 – “Maybe I don’t understand the market, but I prefer not to have the same kind of continued exposure I’ve had up until now. In some ways I think the music has stopped, only most people are still dancing.”
No positions in stocks mentioned.
The outright racism, ignorance, and ugliness of some of the commenters here on the alleged illegal immigrant crisis is simply breathtaking. You sound like my mother in Tucson railing against the “Mexican drug dealers” — i.e., any Hispanic family living in a nice home.
I can hardly believe I’m from the same country as these bigots. And Ben, this is one big reason I don’t visit here much any more.
I too am really uncomfortable with many of the comments about immigrants. Maybe it’s because my dad was an immigrant from Latin America (albeit legally) but these people are desperately trying to improve their lot in life. We should be admiring them rather than denigrating them. The reality is we cannot separate our nation from other nations anymore and there are only multinational solutions to all of our hard problems (war, terrorism, economy, environmental pollution, global warming, ocean destruction, outsourcing, etc.).
My parents were both (legal) immigrants. However, I do not support any assistance for illegals in this country.
My family has had nothing but trouble with immigrants ever since we came to this country.
That’s pretty good.
WOW! Stop the presses! Before anyone is called a bigot, nice term we use when we can’t really make the debate team, let’s think about the cost of all these illegals. My family came here from Holland, germany, and France, but they did it legally! That is the point. What other freakin’ country has drivers’ exams in 30+ languages? Go to China and take the test there. See if they give it to you in English? Doubtful. Also, when was the last time you saw a stop sign in anything but English? And don’t give me some crap about one sign 25 feet from the border. That’s rubbish!
Ozarkian from Saratoga, CA
“there are only multinational solutions to all of our hard problems (war, terrorism, economy, environmental pollution, global warming, ocean destruction, outsourcing, etc.). ”
You’re such an i*t.
“The reality is we cannot separate our nation from other nations anymore and there are only multinational solutions to all of our hard problems”
Exactly…and that’s why we should open our borders to all. In that way we can increase the standard of living for the world while decreasing our own standard of living for ourselves and our children. Who wouldn’t want that?
Why should we admire a criminal?
The criminal..the one who provides the employment? I will go out on a limb here and take a guess that they are white. we whities hate to mow the lawn these days, and as for washing dishes, manual labor..forget it. So our love of inexpensive lawn maintainance and shoddy home construction fuels this fire. the “man” never likes to get his hands dirty with real work. and who is the man? We all (collectively speaking) are the MAN! So quit your bitching and get out there and mow your own damn lawn…It is un americian to do otherwise. or at the very least hypocritical.
I fail to see the racism? No one is advocating one race is better. There is an issue with American businesses using illegal labor to their benefit. The large corporations shield themselves from this by using subcontractors that in turn do the hiring.
A friend is in the US on a work visa and is trying to become a legal citizen. Well paid, pays taxes, software developer. It’s been a many year ongoing ordeal, and at any minute he could be told he has to leave. He has a house both here and Austrailia… Pretty crazy.
American corporations see the illegal aliens as their growth market, as they have already indebted the college students and senior citizens. They need constant growth or else their earnings aren’t growing and the stock investors will flee. (Source, Credit Card Nation).
posted “I fail to see the racism? No one is advocating one race is better.”
That is rather rich old bean!
I’m the first of my family to be born in the United States. My native language is not English, but all of my family members learned English well enough to conduct business and prosper in this country. My parents arrived here legally.
Fast forward to last week:
An illegal Mexican was taken out of my house in cuffs, by the police. He had left the scene of a car accident, DUI of course. How did he end up at my house? My roommate was dating him, and she let him register his car in her name. He was trying to get her to tell the cops he wasn’t there.
I’m not going to go into the gory details, but suffice to say: it’s easy to haul off epithets at posters and sound self-righteous.
But I’ve seen the fruits of both legal and illegal immigration.
Please reserve your sanctimony for somebody who doesn’t have a clue.
posted ” An illegal Mexican was taken out of my house in cuffs, by the police. He had left the scene of a car accident, DUI of course.”
Of course, indeed!
“alleged illegal immigrant crisis”
WTF ???
Hey. JHFarr
“I can hardly believe I’m from the same country as these bigots”
Help me understand your side of this illegal alien problem. You are labeling people that have different viewpoints then yours, with out adding any meaningful. May I remind you that the very 1st Amendment to our constitution gave me the right to think anyway I want, and to express my thoughts as long as I didn’t
hurt anyone. Why don’t you add your thoughts on this problem?
Hey man get with the program already. If you are an American of European descent it is your responsibility to maintain a high level of guilt for what occurs in the rest of the world. Don’t you know by now that all of the worlds ills have been caused by Americans of European descent in the last 50 years! As such, you as an American, have the duty to welcome with open arms anyone that can not prosper in their country of origin regardless of whether or not you or your other Americans can take care of your own.
Good lord they teach this to you all in your Freshperson year of University. Get with it people! Globalist Multi-culturism or bust! (I still think bust but who knows what the future holds.)
AMEN, santacruzsux.
I’m all for legal immigration. I am all against illegal immigration.
Is that bigoted? Or rational?
I don’t feel I displayed any of these qualities in my posts concerning immigration “racism, ignorance, and ugliness”. If I was in their situation I’d come here to.
Waving the racism flag is just the typical sanctimonious response. You have “seized the simple simon’s high ground”, to a pressing legal and social problem.
congratulations. No wonder you don’t post. You don’t have anything real to say.
JH,
I’m going to call BS on you for this one. Instead of singling out a poster/s for racist remarks, you just make blanket accusations. One of the reasons I don’t post much about these issues is because of the response from bullies like you. For example, when some California realtors asked Fannie Mae to guarantee loans to IA’s. Or when Wells Fargo starts a campaign to make loans regardless of legal status.
Better yet, why not respond to the topic; a US paper finally looks at the inevitable IA layoffs that are already coming out of the bust. The main character didn’t move on to Phoenix, only because his wife is ‘very pregnant.’ And was he saving up his extra earnings to pay for that childbirth? No, the article said he was sending that back ‘home’ and now can no longer do so. Obviously, they plan to let the system pay for it.
Or maybe you propose that Bob Toll and all the fat-cat homebuilder CEO’s are going to cover these costs; after all, many are here because of the housing boom. Sure.
I have never seen your screen name before, but the next time you come to my blog, be constructive or don’t bother.
Hey JHFarr,
Why don’t you come with me (and my very sick kid) to the emergency room at Phx Children’s Hospital and watch the illegals line up for free health services while your citizen child waits at the back of the line? Then sit and listen to them demand interpreters (and, because I speak Spanish, I hear what they say about getting “everything we want for free if you act like you don’t speak English!”).
Don’t lecture about bigots here…the illegal immigrant issue is about anything but that.
The very fact that you’re looking for it in benign comments speaks to your own bigotry.
The very fact that you’re looking for it in benign comments speaks to your own bigotry.
—————————-
Excellent, Catherine!
There are lots of non-alien slackers here in the Ozarks…they have kids but no income, the government is supporting them, paying for health care for their kids, giving them subsidized housing, etc. etc. It would be nice if people mooching off the system could be categorized as “illegal aliens” but these slackers exist everywhere in the country. The Spanish-speaking illegal alien is more identifiable but the white English-speaking uneducated system moocher is also there. At least the “illegal aliens” had to expend some effort to get to this country whereas the native-borns just drop out of high school in 9th grade and start making babies. Oh wait, I mean 8th grade. These people bother me the most because they have the opportunities and don’t take them. And they have no shame to live off handouts from the government and relatives and charities.
So your argument is that US already has a poor and uneducated population that aren’t doing enough for themselves so we should allow illegal immigration. Correct?
I am not arguing for or against legal or illegal immigration. I am pointing out that the problem is BIGGER than just illegal immigrants. Lots of other people are exploiting the government handouts too. This is a complex problem and a border fence, or shooting illegal immigrants or whatever wouldn’t FIX the underlying issues of not enough good-paying jobs in the Americas, people want too damn much stuff, and a good number of people are lazy bums. I live in a town that is nearly all white native born Americans and for some period of time it had the dubious claim to fame of having the highest per capital unmarried teenage mother rate in the entire country. Some of the people here are ignorant hicks with not an inkling of knowledge of any kind except how to suck money from others, make and take meth, drive drunk, and pop out babies.
Oz, you are talking about a county or town in your area. Among states, New Mexico has the highest unwed birthrate in the US. The highest in the country is the District of Columbia.
The rest of your comment is a pretty accurate description of the state of NM as well.
EVERY society has its share of free-loaders and parasites. I have traveled much of the planet and have seen it first hand. Anyone thinking that we can get 100% employment and full productivity needs to put the crack pipe down.
Denmark is about as near to utopia as I have seen on this planet, and even it has that certain segment of society that chooses not to be productive and looks to the state for hand outs.
I think what everyone is saying here is that while we have our own born-and-bred freeloaders to look after, why would we want to add to it by ignoring the illegal immigration issue?
Your absolutely right, I am going to join LaRaza tomorrow, that benign, benevolent organization which promotes equally for all races. Check out their website for a true definition of “racism”.
remember folks, there’s no logical argument for illegal immigration, therefore everyone against it is racist.
The problem is … there ARE logical arguments for illegal immigration, e.g., it provides a limitless source of cheap labor, and it drives down wages paid in industries with formerly American workforces. No need to provide benefits, either, simply refer your illegal immigrant employees to the emergency room for free health care, and the taxpayers pick up the tab. The construction industry, meat-packing industry, etc… used to pay high wages and had a primarily legal, American workforce. Now go into any meatpacking plant in country and you will see nothing but illegal immigrants working for $7 or $8/hour. If you are a business owner or corporation, there are plenty of “logical” arguments for illegal immigration.
Sorry for the repost, but it is (IMHO) worth repeating:
Although I don’t like “racist” speech myself, I can’t imagine why talking about illegal immigration should be forbidden or taboo. It is a VERY important topic for this country, and trying to stop discussion of illegal immigration and its effects simply because a majority of illegal immigrants have dark skin and speak Spanish is, well, RETARDED.
Jhfarr,
Another politically correct whiner.
Capt Jack posts ” Another politically correct whiner.
Should’nt that read “wienner”
I find this profoundly disturbing. First, I find it disturbing that a majority of economists think the housing bust is mostly over (which would make it the shortest real estate bust in history, btw). And secondly, I find it disturbing that Lehman Bros. thinks the Housing Bubble will “go down in history as one of the small ones”.
Let’s contrast this with a quote from The Economist Magazine:
Who do you suppose is the paymaster for these idiots?
That would answer all your questions.
I don’t think economists (depending on where they live and what they do) are necessarily more attuned to markets. I don’t recall any survey of economists calling the real estated debacle of 1990 or the stock market decline of 2000.
Most are very timid and very cautious. Like bankers, they’d rather be a little wrong a lot of the time than to ever be clearly wrong one, big, time.
It is so true the BIGGEST PONZI SCHEME is the US Real Estate Market in the last 3-4 years. Now, the bag holders will be suffering (suckers who bought in 2004-2006.) Sooner or later the number of suckers will dry up and the whole scheme comes crashing down, just a matter of time. Until another generation of suckers comes along.
WHat is really sad about this country is the total reliance upon basically Ponzi schemes or bubbles to keep the economy going. What happened to thrift, savings, working hard, planning on a future? What did we become the “I want it yesterday, and I want it on a gold-plate, diamond-encrusted plate” crowd? When I hear “maximizing profit talk, all I can thnk of is pure unadulterated greed. Oh wait, gotta go back to the bloobtube, Springer is back from a Lending Tree commercial.
Thrift is a virtue, but almost useless without productivity. With advancing industrial development in countries where people are willing to work much harder than we do, it is not surprising how many of us are trying to make our living by just grabbing each others’ pieces of pie.
Let’s play poker!
And televise it relentlessly. Geez, I thought golf was bad.
I have a question regarding the Las Vegas Sun’s subheading “[Nevada] State’s unemployment claims in construction industry up 32 percent”:
Is it true that illegal aliens cannot apply for unemployment compensation?
In Pennsylvania they are not eligible. There’s a big song and dance on the UC website about “we share info with federal authorities” blah blah, but honestly, who knows if they enforce?
(If you see my post above about my roommate’s IA boyfriend who got busted…the local cops reported him to the INS…what did INS do? Nothing.
A buddy of mine got tired of IAs parking their car in front of his house at 2 am and shouting, yelling, blaring music, etc. They would blast the car horn, waiting for their amigos to come down.
So one night friend, who speaks fluent Spanish, explained to the amigos that there are people sleeping on the street, please be considerate, etc. etc. He did this very politely.
A couple more nights passed with the same noisy crap going down. Friend had had it. He is a highstrung type, and this night instead of just speaking with the illegals, he grabbed one of them and shoved him up against the wall, yelling at the guy this time in full tilt snap-out espanol. A city cop noticed the altercation. He came to investigate, and my friend explained the situation, and told the cop to look at the car, no tags, no license, no nothing.
The cop’s response: you know if we had to bust every illegal driver in this town we wouldn’t get anything else done.
You try driving w/o license, tags etc. and see what happens to you.)
OK your question was about Unemployment Compensation. My answer was just a very long-winded way of saying: even if they are “not allowed”, I’ll bet you $5 nobody’s getting flagged.
For some reason, the law is different for them.
And please, no comments about bigotry, intolerance, etc. My family is a Melting Pot all by itself.
I’m a second generation American. I understand your frustration. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.
Phillygal,
you are right on point as usual.
In other posts, I have been defensive about what I perceived as backhanded racist remarks. I was probably being too sensitive. I am just sympathetic towards some immigrants - and my family has had both good and bad experiences. I worked as a college counselor at a high school in Los Angeles and have dealt with many overachieving students who were illegal immigrants and could not receive financial aid for a college education. The disappointment is a setup from their parents’ decision to come to the country illegally. Sometimes, I did wish there was a way to help the kids reach their potential - even though their parents had broke the law. On the other had, I’ve also had some bad experiences. My parents and I lived in Lincoln Heights and have had our fair share of crime incidents, including several break-ins and an assault on my mother while she was walking in the neighborhood - all this, aside from the usual name-calling of “stupid chino.” With this said, I guess I’m just someone trying to find peace and unity in a country divided by moral values and cultures.
You are in for some tough times in that quest, I’m afraid. As the economic pie shrinks, it’s only going to get more divisive.
On the other hand, how many people get a front row seat to watch the slow, arguably unstoppable, likely orderly, decline of a country to a different level? Not in a year, or 10 years, but over a 20 to 50 year span.
chuen,
It is a shame that Vicente Fox and/or whoever the current Mexican leaders are do not have the same compassion and respect for their own country’s citizens, resident and expatriate.
Can you or anyone else explain to me why my family had to respect the law in order to establish residency here…and others do not?
>“‘I came here (to the United States) to work, not to rest,’
God bless him and all like him.
Just more proof that America sadly produces very little any more - people have to rely on asset bubbles to make up for the every decreasing wages, crumbling social structure, etc. of our declining society. If our society was truly productive and if people had a degree of common sense instead of a childish “ME WANT NOW!!!” attitude, asset bubbles like this one would never happen. What a mess… while we (the wise posters on these boards who do have some financial sense and a decent abilty to realize “when something doesn’t seem right) may end up with affordable housing from all this, I am most disturbed about how this will all end. A massive reduction in the middle class? Poverty and crime everywhere? Government funded bail-outs if not for the foolish buyers than perhaps for banks? I don’t know… I just don’t see any way to erase the huge amount of debt that it seems almost everyone in this nation from top to bottom owns to everyone, except for hyperinflation, which will be just as destructive as any other outcome.
How I long for the days when one good salary at a productive job was enough to have a good house and a good life and debt was something that one avoided. I guess we all “lucked out” and get to be witnesses to one of the most spectacular financial crashes - be it fast or painfully slow - of our time.
Pondering this is will be the mother of all crashes when the party/music finally stops. I too wich for a small place in the country to raise my kids and family with a nice small place that only 1 income is needed to support. I don’t need a lavish palace. However, too many got greedy and deregulation of the housing and banking industries has caused a ton of this mess. The fallout when the shi$% finally hits the fall is going to be the mother of all recessions. In fact, it might be a depression. Run on the banks, bank holidays, supervised safety deposit box withdrawals, no legal ownership of gold and silver. Well, you get the point. If you think we have a police state now, just wait…
Another Phoenix flipper in trouble:
List Price: $289,900
Bedrooms: 4
Full Baths: 3
Partial Baths: 0
Square Feet: 2,632
Lot Size: 10,001 TO 12,500 SQ FT
Year Built: 2005
Listing Date:
On Market: 75 days
Type: SFR
Status: ACTIVE
MLS #: 2610302
Price Reduced: 09/10/06 — $324,900 to $319,900
Price Reduced: 09/12/06 — $319,900 to $304,900
Price Reduced: 09/16/06 — $304,900 to $299,900
Price Reduced: 09/30/06 — $299,900 to $289,999
Price Reduced: 10/10/06 — $289,999 to $289,949
Price Reduced: 10/27/06 — $289,949 to $288,949
Price Reduced: 10/29/06 — $288,949 to $284,999
Price Reduced: 11/02/06 — $284,999 to $283,999
Price Increased: 11/03/06 — $283,999 to $284,999
Price Increased: 11/07/06 — $284,999 to $288,999
Price Increased: 11/10/06 — $288,999 to $317,999
Price Reduced: 11/17/06 — $317,999 to $289,900
Price Paid:
Deed #: 060123939 (1/27/2006)
Sales Price: $349,130