“If People Want To Sell, Do It Now”
The Daily Star reports from New York. “Otsego County is bucking state and national trends in home sales, sales and prices continue to increase. ‘The market is still very busy, but the market has normalized,’ said broker Carol Chesser. ‘We are still seeing home sales, but not as many multiple-offers.’”
“Paula Loesel, an associate broker in Stamford, said sellers don’t always accept and understand that they may not be able to get the price for the home that the market once brought.”
“Jim Mead, an associate broker in Oneonta, said the area is driven by downstate buyers. Mead said those who are selling might want to take advantage of the current climate. ‘If people want to sell, they’re better off to do it now than to wait,’ he said.”
The Utica Observer Dispatch. “Houses are taking longer to sell, much to the chagrin of local homeowners. Nationally, that slowing-down process is being called the bursting of the housing bubble.”
“When Jody Thomas decided to sell her New Hartford home, she thought the quality of the house, its school district and the neighborhood would have potential buyers flocking to buy it.”
“That was in April. Three months later, she lowered the purchase price by 5 percent to $138,000. Three months after that, she lowered the price to $134,900. The three-bedroom, 1,500-square-foot ranch-style house finally sold. ‘It seemed like forever,’ said Thomas, who sold a house in Clinton much quicker three years ago.”
“Those whose livelihoods are invested in the local market are noting the recent changes. ‘It’s a little lower than it’s been in the past couple of years, but we’ve had a phenomenal past couple of years,’ said Brady Endryck, executive officer of the Home Builders Association of Mohawk Valley.”
“The phenomenal years to which Endryck is referring are illustrated through the number of single-family building permits issued in the Mohawk Valley. They have increased every year since 2000, with the biggest surge being a 10.6 percent increase to 563 permits between 2004 and 2005. Endryck expects a decrease in 2006, although figures won’t be available until the new year.”
“‘We’re down quite a bit this year,’ said Whitestown Codes Enforcement Officer Phil Husted, who has issued 10 single-family home building permits so far this year, compared to 34 by the same time last year and 35 for the entire year in 2004. ‘It’s been a slow year for everybody, I believe, as far as building new homes,’ Husted said.”
“‘It’s a good place to buy a house because I think the home prices will be fairly stable,’ said Celia Chen, director of housing economics at Moody’s Economy.com. ‘I think there is an adequate supply of land,’ Chen said. ‘There’s not a lot of population growth. And the economy alone is not that fast growing. It doesn’t need to correct.’”
“Kimberly Salatino’s patience was tried for a few months, but now a huge weight has been lifted off her and husband Christopher’s shoulders. Last month, the South Utica residents accepted a bid for their home, which had been on the market since September.”
“The pressure was on since they had entered into a contract to buy a bigger home in southeast Utica. ‘I thought it would be easier, but I know we missed the summer market,’ said Kimberly Salatino. The couple still lowered the selling price by 5.3 percent to $179,000 to entice a buyer, Salatino said.”
“The region’s percentage of homeowners struggling to afford housing has increased in the past several years, government figures show.”
“And that increase in the percentage of people spending 30 percent or more of their income on rent or a mortgage is coming at a faster rate than the national and state increases. This is the case despite the fact Mohawk Valley housing prices did not soar at the rate seen in the South and along the coasts.”
“In 2005, 26.8 percent of Utica-Rome area residents with a mortgage spent more than 30 percent of their household income on housing costs, compared to 16.4 percent of residents in 2000, according to U.S. Census Bureau data. ‘It’s not a great number, but I don’t think it’s terrible,’ said Celia Chen.”
“She said the area is still quite affordable in terms of housing. Our median housing price is about one-half the national average, but median incomes are also far lower.”
“Still, household incomes aren’t rising, which could cause a problem down the line, economist Trudi Renwick said. ‘If incomes don’t rise and housing prices continue to rise, you’re going to catch up with the rest of the state at some point,’ she said.”
The Concord Monitor from New Hampshire. “Half-acre parcels selling for as much as $600,000 on Loon Mountain in Lincoln are posted with the names of owners who hail from Belmont, Hingham, Stoneham and a half-dozen other towns within a 35-mile radius of Boston.”
“At a time when the New Hampshire real estate market has slipped into its first downturn in nearly a decade, the state’s largest ski areas are launching aggressive real estate ventures like Loon Mountain’s expansion project. ‘There is a very large population in this country looking for second homes,’ said Ed Brisson, VP of northeast operations for Centex. ‘What we are building responds to what the market is looking for.’”
“Most buyers so far have been families in their mid-30s from the Boston area, Brisson said, and they don’t want to have to get in the car and go across the street to ski when they’re there”
“‘They keeping building everywhere, and people keep buying it,’ said Karl Stone, spokesman for a statewide ski industry association. ‘It shows there’s a lot of disposable income in our society.’”
“Peter Francese, a demographer from Exeter who has studied the second-home market extensively, said New Hampshire has the third-highest number of second homes in the country. And even though the real estate market has hit what Francese calls a ‘plateau,’ in which sales have gone flat after a long span of boom years, the market for second homes in the state is likely to continue growing.”
“Still, he said, building a hefty inventory of second homes during a real estate slowdown is enough to make him ‘a little nervous.’”
“‘I would be a trifle nervous if I were in that business,’ he said. ‘I wouldn’t be worried sick because the market will pick back up again, but in the short term, it’s a little nerve-wracking because I doubt they’re selling at the pace they were a couple of years ago.’”
“At a time when the New Hampshire real estate market has slipped into its first downturn in nearly a decade, the state’s largest ski areas are launching aggressive real estate ventures like Loon Mountain’s expansion project. ‘There is a very large population in this country looking for second homes,’ said Ed Brisson, VP of northeast operations for Centex. ‘What we are building responds to what the market is looking for.’”
The ski industry inventory is exactly what pushed RE over the cliff in the 1980’s. I see they haven’t learned a thing. 40% of 2005 sales, nationally, were considered speculative. In other words, second, vacation and investment houses. So what does Centex do? Execute a plan to compete in that market? How stupid is that? In the 1980’s, all the skiing spec garbage that got built (yes, it was and is garbage) was developed by local guys. Centex will get their heads handed to them on this one.
“‘There is a very large population in this country looking for second homes,’ said Ed Brisson, VP of northeast operations for Centex. ‘What we are building responds to what the market is looking for.’””
Keep on building brainchild, just keep on building.
“Jim Mead, an associate broker in Oneonta, said the area is driven by downstate buyers. Mead said those who are selling might want to take advantage of the current climate. ‘If people want to sell, they’re better off to do it now than to wait,’ he said.”
But since real estate always goes up, wouldn’t people who want to sell be better off waiting until next year, in order to capture another year of double-digit home equity investment gains?
I keep hearing this same drumbeat that upstate is driven by downstate. The problem is that downstate is seized up. I stood in a line at a deli in northwest NJ on friday and overheard a some crying about not being able to move south because they can’t dump their stucco box. What does that say about Oneonta, Utica, Syracuse, and the millions of po-dunk towns along the Mohawk? As far as the new imported residents, typically they close up shop, sell at a loss and go back where they came from.
I sold my house in Syracuse two years ago, priced it aggresively and sold it in three weeks. My comment here is that I still see homes that were overpriced two years ago still on the market there.
What the heck is in Syracuse anymore??? Besides, imported knuckle draggers and nosepickers of course…. Does Carrier have anything going there now?
What the heck is in Syracuse anymore??? “Besides, imported knuckle draggers and nosepickers of course…. Does Carrier have anything going there now?”
On Board Neighborhood Navigator (foreclosure.com):
My town: 21.8% grad degree, 23.7% Bach degree, 11.5% assoc.
Manlius (outide Syracuse) 24.6% grad degree, 30% bach degree, 6.2% assoc.,
Baldwinsville: (North of Syracuse) 13.7% grad, 23.7% bach degre, 7.9% assoc.
How does your town compare?
Should have included Dewitt:
22.8% grad, 23% bach, and 6% assoc.
That would make sense as Syracuse is home to SU. I wasn’t referring to SU when I mentioned the imported nosepickers and knuckledraggers.
My apologies.
Yeah, but none of those people are WORKING.
BULLSEYE
Many of the women in town are work widows: Husbands doing offshore business for weeks at a time: Japan, Germany, England. Others are in the medical, legal, or financial fields like my banker neighbor, other neighbor: sales for IBM. It isn’t all SU grads here either.
Do I have to go thru this again?: Columbia, Harvard, NYU, BU, Cornell, Colgate, Yale, many European educated here. Most Moms I know have MBAs. They’re here to escape lots of bubble zones. Zinsmeister, Bush’s domestic policy adviser: 2 streets over (before he moved to DC), former Clinton speechwriter: 1 street over, Bush cousin: 1/2 mile down, former ambassador: 1/4 mile over, Jacqui K Onassis cousin-mile or so out….yah, we’re all a bunch of loosers here.
Lockheed Martin has major facilitites in Syracuse and near Binghampton, and is hiring aggressively. otherwise, no other major employer.
hey CarrieAnn, do you hail from Skaneateles, the “hamptons of upstate NY” — LOL.
Ithaca is even worse. It’s Cornell, Ithaca College, TC3, and that literally is IT. Actually, people who live in Ithaca and don’t work at one of the colleges usually work in Syracuse or or Lockheed in Binghampton.
Hi Badger Boy:
Don’t forget Colgate which has gotten some pretty good press as of late.
No, I don’t and would never live in Skaneateles. I heard the Skaneateles crowd calls our town the “Skan. wanna-be’s”. LOL!
Myself: I’m a live and let live type so they don’t much take to people like me. The locals haven’t been too impressed as I am a NH girl at heart (with a good heapin’ of MA influence thrown in) I’m starvin’ for a little creativity and open mindedness. Roadtrip!
okay, carrieAnn, do you live on the West Side of Skaneateles Lake or the East Side. Is Tim Green still there? Heard Alec Baldwin was buying a place there too.
Never understood WHY anyone would pay California coast prices to live in a place with horrible weather, a freezing cold lake that is swimable 2 months a year tops, and is a cultural blackhole with no local economic base.
I can’t afford to move back to Skaneateles and I have a PhD in Computer Science from a top 10 school in the field. And even if I could, I would have to think twice.
oh, Hamilton. mea culpa. I grew up in Skaneateles, went to college in Ithaca, worked awhile, and went away to graduate school. and won’t be back!
good luck.
Congratulations Walt. Not sure where you are in Syracuse but the streets I’ve driven down look like everyone wants out. You must have really been aggressive (and kept the place up well) Are you staying local or skipping town?
Yea, I sold in Syracuse area (Fulton) 3 years ago and got out. I even made a profit after only 4 years in the house.
I have a few good friends from that area. They seem to remember it fondly.
“Still, household incomes aren’t rising, which could cause a problem down the line, economist Trudi Renwick said. ‘If incomes don’t rise and housing prices continue to rise, you’re going to catch up with the rest of the state at some point,’ she said.”
Trudi seems to be suggesting that something’s got to give. How exactly does she think this “catching up” could play out? Could housing prices continue to rise indefinitely if incomes do not?
No crap Trudi.
You think that might cause a problem; or just going to price all of us “have nots” out forever? I thought it was OK if everyone who did not own a home was priced out of the market? That’s what the idiots down here in FL told me; rich people will always come and puch the prices higher still!
I think we are almost at the end of “the line”. It will be interesting to see how well the retail stores do this year now that more peoples piggy banks are empty. Any slow down in spending is a sure sign that consumers are starting to be tapped out.
People I know who were serial re-financers here in Sacramento are all staying in town this year and spending way less. There have been rumblings about how tight money is etc.
…but still all good news for holiday sales for retailers, excepting the bottom rung of the food chain (WalMart). Not that that doesn’t tell you something, but that “last gasp” theory is starting to look shaky to me. Holiday spending doesn’t seem to point to any kind of substantial tightening of lending standards - not yet.
Don’t be fooled by the media hype! The first news from Black Friday weekend was based on polls not actual sales data.
We shall see.
And all the available hard data with REAL numbers are negative. Like, for instance, Wal-Mart, and PC sales, to name two places where there are real numbers… All the initial news reports are based on a flawed survey which asked people “what do you plan to spend this weekend?”.
“And even though the real estate market has hit what Francese calls a ‘plateau,’ in which sales have gone flat after a long span of boom years, the market for second homes in the state is likely to continue growing.”
In other words, Francese believes the second home market has hit a permanently high plateau.
“Plateau” and “growing market”… Which one is it Vinny? If Francesci were honest, he’d tell us how the wheels fell off the market in 1990.
“‘They keeping building everywhere, and people keep buying it,’ said Karl Stone, spokesman for a statewide ski industry association. ‘It shows there’s a lot of disposable income in our society.’”
It shows there is a lot of income disposal in our society.
good one.
Wait a minute! Is leasing someone else’s money and disposing of it count as income!?!
Good one!
It shows you there is a lot of liquitity (easy credit) in out society.
All is good… Lereah says we are stabilizing…
—-
Pending home sales fell 1.7% in Oct., stabilization seen
By Greg Robb
Last Update: 10:00 AM ET Dec 4, 2006
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - A gauge of future home buying declined slightly in October, a sign that the housing market could be stabilizing, the National Association of Realtors said Monday. The pending home sales index fell 1.7% in October after a 1.1% drop in September. The index is down 13.2% in the past year, but the decline from year-ago levels has narrowed since August. David Lereah, chief economist for the realtors’ group, said a fairly steady pace of home sales can be expected for the next two months. “It’s important to focus on where the housing market is now — it appears to be stabilizing and comparisons with an unsustainable boom mask the fact that home sales remain historically high,” Lereah said.
Stabilizing into a permanent downtrend.
Just by them using the word “stabilizing” means they accknowledge the bubble!
The Daily Star reports from New York. “Otsego County is bucking state and national trends in home sales, sales and prices continue to increase. ‘The market is still very busy, but the market has normalized,’ said broker Carol Chesser. ‘We are still seeing home sales, but not as many multiple-offers.’”
For non-NYers this is the Cooperstown area. I’ve driven to/thru that area a few times and (besides the monied Cooperstown itself) the drive is often accompanied by feelings of depression and isolation. Many homes, areas appear run down and neglected. If you have needs to escape society it could be good but I imagine life will be quite different for you. Albany isn’t that close and unless they’re hiding the industrial parks I’d say jobs are scarce. Besides, 37 sales is hardly a sizzling market for an entire county….talk about playing with numbers.
these areas are the NY rustbelt. they are farming communities hit hard by the loss of manufacturing jobs, low farm prices and a loss of population.
Then why the boom?
‘It’s a little lower than it’s been in the past couple of years, but we’ve had a phenomenal past couple of years,’ said Brady Endryck, executive officer of the Home Builders Association of Mohawk Valley.’
This is a rural area of farms, retirees, a few colleges and tourist destinations. I wouldn’t call it the rustbelt — there was never anything to rust. The biggest issue there is dairy farm price supports.
In a prior article, it as noted that Catskill areas with a bigger second home/retirement market linked to the city have taken a bigger hit.
“there was never anything to rust.”
But plenty to rot. The Mohawk has long been known for its textile/carpeting industry that left cities like Amsterdam and Gloversville devastated. Add Kodak/Polaroid/Carrier to the rusty relic of a screwed economy.
Of course dairy is another topic for another day.
Utica was once quite a manufacturing center. I own a crescent wrench from Utica Tool, and a radio from GE’s Utica plant.
Add to that Utica Boiler.
I’m from Upstate NY. I agree that the area around Cooperstown is pretty desolate… It’s actually very sad to drive through and walk around the towns near Cooperstown. I see the same thing in Western Massachusetts and Northern New England.
West Springfield, MA former resident. When I go back to visit the graves of my ancestors and friends who stayed behind it is surreal. My family has nearly all left after many generations of residence.
Last time I was in Springfield, MA I thought I fell asleep and woke up on a island in the caribbean.
at least in my town 1) people escaping NY City and 2) people escaping CA.
It is a beautiful part of the country, with low prices. Weather stinks and taxes in NY are insane, but otherwise people are pleasant and it’s a good place to raise kids.
“at least in my town 1) people escaping NY City and 2) people escaping CA.”
I can’t think of a better way to keep people out… imports…
Syracuse is my old haunt. A beautiful area, but not much in the way of industrial jobs — not to mention the constant snow.. Carrier has been leaving bit by bit, and the smarter kids are growing up and going elsewhere for college and jobs Upstate NY (at least Buffalo and Syracuse) have lost 10% population since 1990. I love how the bubble is so unknown there that the Utica paper has to educate its readers: “Nationally, that slowing-down process is being called the bursting of the housing bubble.”
That said, I did check out Realtor.com, and there is some ugly spec building still going on in depressed Syracuse. 2000 sq ft air boxes for $200K. Considering the jobs there, it’s not that affordable.
upstate NY had plenty of jobs a few decades ago. there is plenty to rot, to say otherwise is foolish.
“That said, I did check out Realtor.com, and there is some ugly spec building still going on in depressed Syracuse. 2000 sq ft air boxes for $200K. Considering the jobs there, it’s not that affordable.”
Oxide, check out what’s been going on in Baldwinsville. The building there has been manic and its all 1/4 to 1/3 ac lot neighborhoods. There have got to be at least 6-7 new neighborhoods started or being started up there. The estate homes along the river (a few years old) seem especially out of place when you continue further west and see what’s been built there in years past (usually 70s style ranches). I like B-ville and actually tried to move there last year thinking there was more going on but if I was a resident that had been there a while I think I’d feel very sad.
It’s only natural for them whine with a massive millstone of debt attached to their necks while they paddle into deeper and deeper water.
Hey…WHO IN THE *?# @ IS ROCKING MY BOAT $$$
“And that increase in the percentage of people spending 30 percent or more of their income on rent or a mortgage is coming at a faster rate than the national and state increases.”
I love it. All the while I rent here in Monterey Co. for 14% or less of my income in a house valued at $685K.
That’s awesome.
I never thought to compute that.
It turns out my wife and I rent for 7.2% of our incomes on rent.
This is across the street from the beach in Treasure Island, Florida where according to real estate prices, this is one of the most desirable places to live in the country… (uhm, not according to rents…)
And to think people are cool with 40% or more. Go friggin’ figure…
“And to think people are cool with 40% or more. Go friggin’ figure…”
It makes perfectly good sense with guaranteed 25% annual home equity gains forever.
Ha! my rent is currently 5.5% of income.
However, I’m going to get a big place for me and my fiancee… so I expect to grow that to 9%. But I’m not across the street from the beach… so you have me there.
Neil
Beach or no beach, I declare you the winner of the lowrent contest.
My rent is also about 6% of my income. So I don’t get a prize???
I’m renting at 18.5% of income - for a 550K house.
A quick calculation indicates that buying, even with 20% down would coust at least double that……
And yet people did a double take when we sold last year and said we were going to rent for a while…. go friggin figure indeed.
‘The market is still very busy, but the market has normalized,’ said broker Carol Chesser.
Since NAR has redefined the meaning of “normalized”, I think we should all start using it instead of “crash”. It’s a much less threatening term. How about:
“Three cars normalized on Interstate 80 today, resuling in minor injuries.”
or
“Meth adicts, unable to tap thier home equity, have been normalizing since they can no longer afford their habits.”
or
“HP tech support says my computer is not working because the hard drive normalized.”
or
“We haven’t seen anything like this since stock market normalized in 1929.”
Anymore we can add?
lmao….
If the stock market normalized in 1929, what was 1932-33?
Extranormalized.
Lereah on the Hindenburg: Fortunately fire helped to normalize its unsustainable height.
LMAO!!!
OT- Bubble Nation Five Bubbles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_i7yWizHhg
‘Buyer’s market strengthens in New York. For-sale listings flood market, impact sales and prices.’
Interesting Video. Thanks Ben