“What Countries Should Be Considered For Living?”
Readers suggested a topic on international housing markets. “What countries outside America should someone consider for living? I have enough money to buy a house, but am so disgusted by the current situation in America that I don’t want to buy here, in the foreseeable future.”
“Canada is the obvious choice because of proximity and similarity. I vacationed in a pleasant small city in Brazil a few years ago, and the people of Thailand were quite friendly when I spent some time there, pre-tsunami. So if you didn’t have to work full-time…where would you go?”
One had a short list. “New Zealand, Australia, Deutschland.”
Another had this, “Read something about the making of lord of the rings, and how a lot of the geeks who stayed behind after the project was finished.”
One had more detail. “New Zealand is a paradise, and anybody who has spent a bit of time down there, can see it with their own eyes and the film crews would have had ample time to see for themselves…”
“Once the real estate bubble there goes away, (no different than here, prices up 300% vs 10 years ago) my wife and I are looking to buy a small place somewhere in a little mountain town in the Southern Alps of the South Island.”
“New Zealanders are in my opinion, the friendliest people i’ve ever met and crime is laughable, compared to here in the states.”
“Anytime from now to late February is a great time to be there. Their summer is just starting in earnest, now. We wouldn’t be buying a place there to live full-time, just chasing the perenial summer, that’s all.”
“We like NZ for reasons altogether different from income. It feels to us, like stepping back into the 1960’s, life as we remember it, simpler, friendlier, a lost innocence we can reclaim, with just a 13 hour plane trip from L.A.”
One points out the restrictions. “Best first check the taxes in these places, whether on property, income or other assets. Also check details of permanent residence. Thailand, for example, requires you to leave the country every 90 or 180 days, as I recall — not a deal-killer, necessarily, but a nuisance unless you live close to a border.”
One looks at the local economy. “Just remember the local per capita GDP in NZ is nothing like the US. Some folks from my school finished up in NZ, and at a reunion a few years back several commented about the difference even between NZ and Australia.”
“If you’re thinking of coming to Australia itself, it gets a lot harder after 45.”
One looks elsewhere. “I’m strongly considering South America. If one can handle the security concerns, there are good jobs to be had. The search is on….”
And another looks north. “I’m trying to move to Canada right now. The coasts have reasonable winters, and I like their more laid-back approach to things. Vancouver is my favorite, but unfortunately everyone wants to live there so it is rather overpriced… at the moment.”
Ireland, Italy and Barbados
I still want to visit Costa Rica and check out conditions there. I’m going on vacation in April but it’s not out of the USA.
i have been thinking about this myself for a bit. at age 55 it is all about your net worth. short list (varied i admit).
switzerland (very hard)
new zealand (somewhat hard)
panama (easy)
other thoughts are gratefully appreciated.
SWZ all the way -buy it today !
then Abaco
To live as a semi-permanent resident of Switzerland, you have to go to the tax office of the canton, in which you wish to live, and negotiate the amount of tax you will pay each year. Each deal is one-off. Shania Twain is a good example. Congrats to the relatively few of us here to whom the Swiss would give the time of day on residency.
NZ is definitely a nice country in many ways. But if you are over 45, you need to have either at least something like $ 3 million in your pocket, or a specialised job that is in heavy demand over there (like something in the homebuilding industry, as long as it lasts …) in order to have a chance to get a chance of permanent residence in NZ. Also, you shouldn’t care about income levels and career opportunities because those are major reasons for many young and highly educated people are leaving the country. Also, if you are strongly interested in high level arts, museums, culture etc. like you find everywhere in Europe, NZ is not the place to be.
The interior of western Puerto Rico.
Long time, no comment. Leaving the USA has been a only a thought for some time… but with my beloved USA going to HELL in a handbasket in just my short life (since mid 70s) I am not sure if I want my kids to live here. I am a renter now, sold out in 2004, and I don’t know if I will ever want to buy in USA again…not unless I get 94-98prices in a low property tax area. The USA is QUICKLY becoming a 3rd world country… 30% trash and lowlifes, 50% indentured debt slave midde class, 15% upper middle class of yuppies and 150k+earners, and finally the 5% of elite who deficate 1000 dollar bottles of wine for fun and IMHO ‘get off’ on the situation…like watching a shark eat a goldfish on TV. So many Americans simply live to service debt and pay taxes. Our freedoms are beign stripped each day, the Constitution has been mutilated, and every one spends 50cents on the dollar in taxes, fees, surcharges etc. I sit here in anger and wonder WTF did we found this country for only to become more corrupt than the British? Why did all those guys die to defend this crap we have become. It is an insult to those who sacrificed, and the parallels to ROME can not be overlooked. If a viable 3rd Party, one of reform and a return to founding prinicples, does not rise to significance in the next 2-8years, this place is DONE as much as a turkey at 350degrees for 2hrs. Forget the REIC… we are beholden to the MEIC. Just watch the news.
As for places to go… Argentina.. New Zealand??? Carribean?? All I know about Australia..is that they have the same exact Demican/Republicrat situation ‘doing it up’ right out of the “1984″ playbook as well, so I don’t know how much better that place is.
Maybe a bunch of Americans should emigrate to one country and try to make it a better place by learning from out mistakes.
I think your 30% trash and lowlifes figure is too low…IMO, around the 50% number. There’s just so much scum in this country and its amazing how it keeps on growing despite more education and prosperity. How does this explain all the growth of this trash in the past couple of decades, is beyond me.
I would recommend Argentina for studying what could happen in the US in the next 10 years or so.
New Zealand and Oz are VERY different. Oz is on the axis of evil that runs from Washington through the UK, Netherlands and Israel (probably one could add a few other Bush/neocon-loyal countries to the list). If the US gets weaker, Oz will find itself in a very unpleasant situation in Asia. NZ has a reputation of neutrality and cooperation, which makes it a far better place to live when things in the world get even more out of hand - but maybe for some this stance of neutrality would be a no-no…
If you can hold out a while, you should be able to get what you want here in the USA.
“If you can hold out a while, you should be able to get what you want here in the USA.”
Bingo. We’re not in the End Times. The reality is America has survived far worse than what we are seeing now. Don’t like high housing costs in parts of the country? Wait. Prices will drop soon. Don’t like the current crop of politicians? Wait. They will be replaced soon.
If you don’t like it here and you don’t want to stick around to help change things then leave already. Quit your whining. Just go.
“The USA is QUICKLY becoming a 3rd world country… 30% trash and lowlifes”
I think I know what you are saying. It has been said for about 200 years now. The micks are taking over. The Italians are ruining the neighborhood. Now it’s too many Mexicans.
A bunch of Libertarians are trying to take up state residency in New Hampshire, the state that is the closest state to individual responsibility in the United States and become the freeest state in the USA. They are using the same approach the Hippies used to take over Vermont to turn it into a socialist mecca, home of Coward Dean. I suggest you look into the Free State Project. A google search will find it for you.
There are a lot of loopholes to give you the freedom you want whereever you are. Try reading “How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World,” by Harry Browne. It was written and published over 30 years ago but it is timeless advice. Consider yourself a sovereign world citizen and take the direct approach to free up your life. Most likely you are the one who denies yourself freedom. Not some other person. If you think your state’s taxes are too high, move to a state with low or no taxes. That type of thing. There is certainly a lot of freedom in this country. All you have to do is find the loopholes and then get around the loopholes to live your life the way you want to live.
I live in NH. Don’t buy into the no taxes bit. Your 2 bedroom ranch will cost you 300 a month in taxes. Want a decent job after you relocate? Drive into the hellish of commute to Boston since jobs pay squat in NH(if you can find them). However, if you have alot of money or a very marketable job(doctor or the sorts) than my home state can offer alot. It’s clean, safe and pretty. However, I don’t feel I’m living in a libertarian paradise.
The micks and dagos saw america as their new home. most of the mexicans are loyal to mexico. the pickups and surburbans in texas have mexican flags on them. their goal is to “reconquer” the southwest. the italians didn’t want to reconquer america in the name of columbus
“the italians didn’t want to reconquer america in the name of columbus.”
Umm…Grade school history tought me that Colombus was from Spain. Your slurs against Italians are wasted here.
Colombus was Italian.
Although it is generally accepted that he was Italian, Columbus is also associated with Spain because he was sponsored by the Catholic Monarchs and eventually became an admiral for the Crown of Castile. The name Christopher Columbus is a Latinisation of the Spanish Don Cristobal Colón.
I guess I better pack my Charlie Brown Lunch box and get on back to Grammar school - my bad
I have a lot of family (by marriage) in Panama, I’ve been there, very nice in some parts, and you can live on the cheap. The real estate prices are bubbled in some areas due to foreign speculation and for some, the desire to retire there, during the last few years. Fair chance IMO that it’s a result of the overall world RE bubble and demand will level out or come down, especially if the world economy takes a hit. Still, family members of mine in the states are considering buying a vacation property (not for investment purposes, just a fun place to go to). And if things don’t get out of hand economically can potentially retire there.
Better check the “effective” tax rate in CANUCK LAND.
NO credit card or mortgage interest deducts.
Effective rate is about the publicsized rate.
“NO credit card or mortgage interest deducts.”
You say that like it’s a bad thing.
Canadians are pretty hostile towards their southern counterparts. Maybe not so overtly, but it is there.
In my opinion, Americans who are well-informed and open to other view points than their own have no real problem anywhere. Those that are arrogant, ignorant, and insist upon instructing others on what they should think and how they should behave have problems everywhere.
CC deduction ? US doesn’t allow that either.
I lived in NZ for six years and loved it; only moved back to Canada because the NZ economy tanked in the late seventies (since recovered). I still dream about moving back to retire there, though I’m pretty happy and settled in Vancouver.
The joke that recent immigrants often heard when moving to NZ is that they should set their watches ahead 21 hours and back 25 years. It is slower paced and more relaxed than North America and does feel somewhat like you’re going back in time. While it is a capitalist society, many people are more concerned with the quality of life rather than being uber-rich.
My father likes to tell the true story of how his company hired a new employee, a young man who worked very hard from Monday to Thursday, then didn’t show up for work on Friday. They assumed he was sick, but he did the same thing next week. The following Monday, the manager asked the fellow why he was working four days a week. The young man replied: “Because you don’t pay me enough to only work three days a week.”
True story, different attitude.
The only real downside to NZ is that they’re a long way from anyone (arguably also an upside) and very dependent upon imported manufactured goods. Cars, TVs, stereos, computers, dishwashers, etc are all considerably more expensive. A gas crunch/peak oil scenario would make it even more difficult and costly to get manufactured goods. Then again, there’s probably no better place to live a powered-down, ‘living off the land’ life-style.
We just hired a new faculty person from NZ. I think she’s nuts for coming. I seriously looked at moving to NZ after the 2004 election and there are some pretty tough restrictions. The easiest way to get in is to have a CS degree - same with Canada.
So many people threatened to leave if Kerry lost including Barbara Streisand and Alec Baldwin - both great thinkers of our time.
Yet none of you left unfortunately. How come?
probably because it was just a rumor.
Can’t say about Babs but I heard Sir Alec on TV…..from his lips to my ears…..he was leaving the US if Bush won the election. Then, he went underground after people began asking him when he was leaving…..
He shot off his mouth and then weaseled.
He must have spent his time in seclusion eating Twinkees.
His brain already had the same composition as the Twinkies’ cream filled centers.
Most people are ATNA. All Talk No Action.
Hmm! And didn’t John McCain say that he would commit suicide if the Democrats took over Congress?
Still waiting……
Actually MD is what they want the most, and RN’s get fast tracked too
8 years in the army i lived in Korea and italy and visited a bunch of other countries
there is no place like home
Ah! Now I know I don’t have to move to Costa Rica. Thanks! My navy budy spent 20 years in the Navy. Lived abroad and lived aboard many many years. Says the same thing. Why did that native Ohioan move to the small town in the middle of the desert in California after living in, say Spain, for several years?
I agree. Although sometimes I have considered Scandinavia as an option, I very much love this old country of mine, with all its faults. I would rather stay and try to reverse the damage that has been done to the founding principles.
I agree, everything looks better on the other side of the fence.
Doggy do and stuff around my yard, but my neighbors looks better, than I had better clean up my yard.
I have found I can be comfortable just about anywhere, everyplace has there plus’s and minus’s.
Try India. It is cheap, but security would be an issue. Scenery is stunning. But poverty everywhere. Non Indian folks would stand out like a sore thumb and be a target for selling (or other not good things).
Unless you have multiple millions (of US dollars), you won’t be able to afford a decent home in most Indian cities. If you think the bubble is a problem here, you’re eyes will pop when you see urban real estate prices there.
not to mention the unbearable odors
I would love to visit New Zealand, it is on my list of to go. From what I have heard, one major downside is that all beaches have a biting insect that makes them almost unusable. Can anyone corroborate this? Could be why NZ is not a destination resort area.
Lived there 6 years, never heard of such a thing. The beaches are well used by locals and tourists. NZ is not a destination resort because it’s a long, expensive flight and because the climate is ’sub-tropical’ rather than tropical. Temperatures are mild and warm, not hot like Australia, Bahamas, etc. The NZ south island (closer to the south pole) even gets some snow in the winter.
West coast of South Island most definitely has a problem with black flies; nothing you can’t manage though.
And it gets more than “some snow.” It has great alpine skiing.
Sandflies might be the only downside to NZ. The key to them, is using a prioduct called anthisan, a cream you put on the bite, within a day after the bite. (it takes a few days for serious itching to develop) Can’t think of any other problems to NZ… ha
I wonder what are the tax consequences of living abroad for an American who makes his entire living managing his own dividend paying portfolio invested in US common stocks. Any information from Americans living aborad will be greatly appreciated. (NZ, Spain, England, Chile, Australia, Holland; please respond.)
I wouldn’t have all my assets in US stocks, or even all in stocks.
I did some light research on this type of issue a while back for the GF - she trades currencies and has gotten pretty darn good at it. The question was: where should one be based in order to maximize income, minimize expenses, minimize taxes, but keep US citizenship in order to be able to go home if necessary. Required: decent tech base, high-speed internet, international banking options.
Know first that so long as you maintain your US citizenship, the US will continue to assess taxes against you. The first $80k of your “income” from abroad is tax exempt (under most circumstances, including staying abroad for a large number of days per year) since the US wants to have people working abroad and bringing money home. After that first chunk, however, all other income is taxed. There is also a strong possibility of a double taxation by the US and the foreign jurisdiction, so great caution should be exercised.
Foreign corporations are a different story. These depend heavily on their native jurisdictional requirements and regulations, and have not been, and usually cannot be, US citizens. It is theoretically possible to incorporate, say, in the Caymans, pay yourself $75k salary, and have all other assets and costs taken care of by the corporation. That’s not to say the IRS wouldn’t assert additional income nor that you could defraud the federal government by “hiding” income, however. You can start looking at Wiki, but you need to consult with an international tax lawyer to get concrete advice.
Some of the areas I looked at are, in addition to being resorts, so-called “tax havens” meaning they have no income tax. They are rather popular. Included: Gibraltar, Caymans, Bahamas, Cyprus and a few others.
Personally, I highly approve of the concept of voting with your feet and your wallet. Don’t like high taxes here? Go elsewhere. Give to those economies instead, maximize freedom and liberty. It’s a process which has been going on for thousands of years, since at least the time of Aristotle. If you want to read his take on this phenomenon, read The Politics. Cheers!
I believe that you end of paying the higher of the two; example - if your adopted country has higher taxes you pay these and these only; if the taxes are lower, you owe the US IRS the difference.
I do know that every year you will have to file a US return. This will keep your citizenship and passport ensured!
Netherlands is very attractive if you have lots of money invested in stocks. The tax office assumes you make a 4% yearly gain on your stocks (or cash money, second home etc.) and on that assumed gain you pay 30% taxes. Effectively, every year you pay 1.2% on the total (net) value of your capital. That’s all, they don’t care what you do with your money or how much money you make, no income taxes etc. In reality it’s even lower because you can probably deduct some of your costs from this tax. If you are an experienced investor it’s extremely attractive (for those with a savings account, yielding just 2-3% in Netherlands - it’s definitely less unattractive).
problem is that as an ex-USA citizen, you are probably taxed by the US government on top of that (most other world citizens don’t have that problem).
just in case: ‘no income taxes’ applies to those who just live from their stock portfolio and don’t have a job or similar income source. If you are wealthy, your taxable income in Netherlands can also be arranged to get close to zero so even that shouldn’t be a problem. Of course, the downside is the biggest housing bubble in the world and some other related problems.
Bagdad or the Gaza strip anyone ?
Hey, any of you all in Las Vegas. Check out this freak show. Some lucky FB got out!
http://perezhilton.com/topics/michael_jackson/not_quite_neverland_20061225.php
Nobody mentioned long-term leasing abroad. That’s what I’d do.
New zealand also has the highest per capita motorcycle riders of any developed country. It is paradise if you dont have to worry about making a living. If you are in IT most of the developing world is great though. Brazil, argentina to name a few. Australia, NZ have too many immigration restrictions IMHO.
Better like rabbit meat though … and kangaroo and emu too.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.
NZ has no kangaroos nor emus. And I never ate rabbit there. What they have is millions of sheep and cattle. You can eat lamb or steak every day for cheap.
Australia, NZ have too many immigration restrictions IMHO.
Which is precisely why they don’t have a steadily declining middle class and exploding underclass of marginally employed illegals, like here. Want a first-world standard of living (for everyone willing to assimilate and work)? Institute (and enforce) first-world immigration policy. We should take note and learn from their example.
Panama has a lot going for it, I spent 6 months there recently. Favorable for Americans in many ways, very cheap. Many Americans have, and are continuing to move there. Google: Boquete, Panama.
PS
Keep in mind that a gringo/ex-pat housing bubble and land rush is in full swing there. Greedy gringos cashing in on each other… it was ugly.
A former canadian says ..
Canada is awesome if you dont plan on working there. The income tax (fed+provincial) is like 40-45% if you make 17KUS$ equiv or higher and when you want to spend your money you can pay anywhere from 7% (alberta) to 25% (newfoundland) for sales tax (fed + provinical). Also crap costs a lot to buy stuff since there is duty and GST and international shipping to pay if you want to buy stuff from south of the border (USA).
BUT!!!! If you are a bum/retired/non-working/semi-retired/semi-bum CANADA IS AWESOME, esp in victoria, B.C. where pot smoking hippies relaxing on the grass at the publically owned parks contribute to its excellent culture. Universal health care (which means companies pay for all health care not workers) also contributes to the distribution of the wealth from those that work like dogs to those that dont feel like it (its not there fault dammit ! They were just born lazy). Unemployment is also higher like in socialist countries (france). It really comes down to what kind of person you are. Laid back and cold tolerant you will love canada. Please move there.
Work your ass off, hate high taxes, hate sociasim, like owning guns … Look somewhere else. Maybe Switzerland, I dunno. The list of what you call a good country relies alot on the freedoms you adore and the ones you could care less about. Thats reality.
canada is at the tops of many lists of most stable countries and most socialist european countries have higher standards of living than we do.
and who does this ranking? United Nations. A more corrupt and anti-American institution does not exist. This is the same UN that thinks Sudan should be in charge of Human Rights.
Hmmm yeah thanks but I think I’ll ignore those studies that say socialism is wonderful.
“and who does this ranking? United Nations. A more corrupt and anti-American institution does not exist. This is the same UN that thinks Sudan should be in charge of Human Rights.”
oh, you’re one of THOSE people.
In 2004 774,800 Canadian born lived in the USA. Wonder why that is when the UN says Canada is the best place to live. Dumb Canucks I guess.
997,800 Irish born also lived here. Hmmm with socialist Germany and France as options, nearly a million irish citizens chose the USA…wonder why? Probbaly all drunk or something.
And what’s this? 1,011,200 Cuban born were in the US too. How can this be? Why would millions and millions of people leave these socialist paradises for the awful, mean US of A?
Crazy I tell ya.
Part of the reason for so many Canadians in the US has to do with a quirk of the broadcast industry. Traditionally the Canadian Broadcasting Company (CBC) and the National Film Board (NFB) had great on the job training for tech trades, but salaries in Canada were low. US media companies spent relatively little to train staff, but had higher salaries. Behind the cameras, the media is heavily dominated by Canadians, and that’s a big industry, especially in some CA cities.
There are lots of on-camera Canadians too, but that’s a different matter. Our dialect sounds generic to most US citizens, so we have an advantage even over some regional US speakers for national shows.
With the exception of the pronounciation of “-out” being “-oot”.
A moose is in the hoose, oot and aboot, etc.
Even Peter Jennings (RIP) never lost his Cannuck accent.
Yeah, like there’s absolutely no difference whatsoever between Germany and Cuba. Just two crazy Socialist countries, not a whit of difference between them…..
hmm, they could have just bought into the hollywod propaganda and are just stupid. perhaps thats why they moved to the US.
your logic could work bothways now doesnt it?
Which European countries are socialist? The last time I checked, they were all full of competitive businesses. Some were partially owned by the government, but all werecontrolled privately. They are more socialist as far as social services, but that money comes from taxing the private citizens and businesses.
I think “Socialist Democratic Party,” “Social Democrats” and the like would give you a good start in your research.
Those are just names. Do you remember the Democratic Republic of Germany aka East Germany? They were hardly democratic or a republic. As far as social, that describes social services and tax rates. Few of them are crazy enough to want the government to take over all private properties and businesses.
The Economist (Dec. 16-22, 2006) lists a few countries from a “quality of life” ranking in an article about British expats–Britain is ranked third for countries with the most citizens living abroad, after India and China.
Their list includes:
1. Ireland
6. Australia
10. Spain
13. United States
14. Canada
15. New Zealand
25. France
29. Britain
the top 6 in your list are definitely also in the worldwide top 10 listing for the biggest housing bubble…
just imagine what happens when the housing bubbles in these countries start unwinding, I think the ‘quality of life’ would be in for a big change (but if you care most of all about the price of real estate, these are probably the countries to watch in the next years).
A former Canadian? Are you kidding me? This is making me shake my head. For Chiss sakes, you haven’t said one correct thing here. To begin with you don’t even pay a penny in income tax until you make almost 9K (and rises to over 15K at 65), while the top tax rate is only ~46% in most provinces. This tax rate is only reached on incomes in excess of $118K (over 100K USD) - how you get 17K is just beyond me. BTW this compares pretty favourably with the maximum federal rate of 35% that the US government charges (Canada’s federal rate is only 29%).
As for working, Canada has had a higher employment rate than the US for the past few years. In other words you have a better chance of getting a job here, not worse. The unemployment stats in the US are a joke the way they are calculated, just as the CPI is.
BTW I used to live in Switzerland if you think it is any less socialist than Canada then you really need to learn a thing or two. Sure, medicine is run privately, but the state forces you to pay for insurance. Prices there are also extremely high. I remember ten years ago paying 22SF for a kg of pork chops - on sale. God knows what it costs now.
Finally, are you saying we aren’t free up here? So smoking pot is communist?
Canada is awesome if you dont plan on working there. The income tax (fed+provincial) is like 40-45% if you make 17KUS$ equiv or higher
Absolute nonsense. A well paid professional, single, no dependents, will pay about 25%.
See for yourself:
http://tinyurl.com/y3z9bu
I think the reason so many lies are invented about Canada from south of the border is that certain people are terrified that it’s possible to have a US-like standard of living with European-like social services. It works. And government in Canada runs a surplus.
Some parts of the rural US midwest are like the US of 30 years ago. Slower pace, safer, cheaper for most anything, including real estate. $100K will buy you a nice house — today. You got to like seclusion, though, and maybe work out of your house or have enough cash to support yourself.
Having lived in Round Top TX the last 10 years I could not agree more. Sadly, one goes where the work is and my job moved to Seattle…..sigh.
San Antonio is an overlooked gem. Laid back hispanic atmosphere with beautiful downtown.
Overseas I would have to list Southern Germany, Aus, Can, and NZ at the top of my list.
It sure is nice NOT to own a home right now. I am approaching retirement and in the next 5 to 10 years a LOT of people will be trying to unload homes….the boomers will glut the market.
I think ‘bubbleglum’ makes a good point.
Much of the Midwest has small towns where you still know your neighbors, get around without traffic jams, cheap houses, lots of Nature etc - but at the same time there is enough infrastructure built and in place from the period when the Midwest manufacturing base supplied the entire Western world with all its goods, has good schools, has enough restaurants, shops and chains that you don’t miss the suburbs of larger cities.
You don’t have the best symphonies and theatre groups around, but then you can’t have everything.
tcm_guy, New Zealand has a four-year tax exemption on income from overseas investments for new migrants, so if you were tax resident you would pay no income tax on stock dividends for four years. More details on http://www.ird.govt.nz/yoursituation-ind/earning-income/temp-tax-empt-foreign-inc.html
There is talk of taxing unrealized capital gains on overseas stocks, to a maximum of 5% of the gain. I’m not sure how that would work with the above exemption though. There is otherwise no capital gains tax in NZ, for now at least.
Local interest rates are among the highest in the western world. Current floating loan rates are 9%. Despite this there is still a housing bubble, mainly fuelled by cash-rich people emigrating from other bubble areas, especially the UK and Asia.
It is not a good place for anyone who has to work for a salary in the local economy, pay rates are just too low. If you can be self-employed in a good business with significant income from overseas it’s a great place.
Don’t know what pay you are comparing but my son has a job offer from WETA after his contract is up with ILM……
WETA pays 160K NZD/year plus benefits; including travel and housing. Not a bad deal on the surface so he’s looking into the details before deciding whether he wants to make the move. It’s a one year contract so it will provide some current, first hand knowledge……will share the info if he goes that route.
$NZ160k is over five times the average income of $NZ32k (http://www.stats.govt.nz/products-and-services/hot-off-the-press/nz-income-survey/new-zealand-income-survey-jun06qtr-hotp.htm). Weta aren’t really working in the local economy, they’re outsourcing to international film companies.
I heard some local professionals complain that because of the successfull feature-films of the last years, the NZ film/media industry is now so expensive that they can only do international work - which is a severe handicap if all stuff and labour that is not available at the local level has to be flown in from thousands of miles away.
Be extremely careful, NZ companies are notorious for pulling bait-and-switch IT job offers. Check out the NZ Herald for a recent more famous one. I work in NZ and you definitly do not want to work here.
My wife is Chilean and we try to spend a month or so there every year with the kids so they can keep in touch with their Chilean cousins and culture. I’ve also lived in Guatemala and have traveled extensively in both Central and South America.
At this moment, Chile and Costa Rica are the only two Latin American countries that I judge to be stable enough for major investments like property ownership. Both are beautiful countries. Costa Rica is becoming overrun with Americans. Chile, barely at all.
Imagine a 100 mile wide strip of the Pacific coast from Juneau Alaska to Cabo San Lucas, Baja. Flip it upside down so that it gets warmer the further north you go. And you have Chile. The bulk of the population lives in the central region which translates more or less to California in terms of latitude and climate. Santiago is about like Sacramento except that it’s backed by the Andes. And the central valley in Chile is very much like the wine and fruit growing inland valleys of California.
Chile is easily the most industrious and least corrupt of any Latin American country. The level of corruption is, in my judgement, lower than in the US. Unlike the rest of Latin America, you absolutely do not bribe police, or any public officials. They will take immense offense. For major purchases like houses, Chile has established a parallel inflation-adjusted currency unit and the national finances are in far better order than in the US. One will likely no get rich messing with Chilean real estate. But it is very stable. And prices outside of Santiago are a fraction of what they are in the US. Santiago is quite expensive and comparable to mid-level American cities like say Dallas or Atlanta.
As for the immigration issues? I’m not so familiar with those. My impression is that it would be quite difficult for the average American to find employment in Chile on his/her own. Most Americans down there came down with large American corporations that dealt with the immigration issues. Or they are working underground.
In any event, my wife and I are likely to retire in Chile in 20 years or so. We are already thinking about where we’d like to buy property. There are so many options.
We spent 2 months in Chile last year, the nature is spectacular. We like and know the latin countries around the Carib very well. Chile is very different and too our surprise… we didn’t like it at all, save the nature. Don’t move anywhere without an extensive trial stay.
My first impression of South America was Santiago. I thought “wow, if this is South America, this is going to be great!”. Santiago was clean and felt safe. From then on, it went downhill (Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela - in that order).
Bet on Chile.
I’m in Liberia Costa Rica once a month and I swear I’m in a US city with lots of immigrants. Idiots paying top dollar to live there but once you’ve drained a couple of hundred rum bottles, it’s time to come home and act like a grown up. Costa Ricans are very nice (and EXTREMELY tolerant of yankee nonsense) but you wouldn’t catch me moving down there.
It’s a shame because my Spanish is almost as good as my english. I chat with the locals about what idiots these “rich” Americans are. They smile and nod.
I’ve lived in Sweden and Italy also but, in the end, I’m getting buried here.
The supertanker traffic makes any waterway or beaches any where around Panama forbidden.
Huh? Supertankers cannot fit through the canal so where’s the traffic you are talking about….the ocean?
For those who want their life plotted like death is plotted, socialist countries are the best.
For the rest of us, freedom is foremost.
You don’t get out much, do you ruth?
You don’t like freedom much, do you?
I would say there is a ton of places in the US that are paradise, but any person with a brain wouldn’t mention it here. Put it on a top place to live,and you may as well just write it off next week….Paradise is where you find it. …It’s out there.
I know of a small town in California. No air pollution. Houses are very cheap (relatively). Crime is very low. Lots of recreational opportunities. And I won’t say its name. In the long run it will still be cheap to live. That is where I could retire after converting to Roth IRA and moving all the non-tax deferred stuff to a California municipal bond fund and precious metals bullion.
I’m an Aussie and I’d have to say after reading US based blogs and forums for a decade that the quality of life in the US seems considerably lower than that in many other countries. Define “quality”? Well for a start, I hear all this stuff about drive-by shootings, meth labs and not being able to walk your dog at night, almost unheard of here. And living conditions seem poor, all crammed together in high rise condos, estates, gated communities(!) with an obsession about sq ft of buildings whereas here it’s the amount of land that’s important. I mean where are you if you can’t grow a few vegies, invite friends over for a barbie, and set up a comfortable shed with beer fridge
Here, as regards wealth, well admittedly in the larger cities there is some desire to impress but in regional areas most people will go out of their way to downplay wealth, driving ordinary cars and living in comfortable but unostentatious homes, talking about bargain buys with the best of them. People who don’t clean their own houses/pools and do the maintenance/gardening are looked on as lazy regardless of whether they’re millionaires or not. I never, ever hear anyone talking about how much they earn unless it’s to family or very close friends, not so much because it’s considered bad manners (although there is an element of that) but simply because it’s not important to them. Social events are an eclectic mix based on what kind of person you are, not what you do or how much you earn.
I see many posts here where those with menial jobs are derided and an obsession with “good” schools and overriding expectations for offspring to “achieve”. Like if you’re not a doctor or lawyer or don’t have several degrees under your belt then you’re nobody. You don’t want your kids to get their hands dirty so you let illegals take over then despise them for it.
America was built with hardworking, get-your-hands-dirty people and to me it has now lost its way and degenerated into a narcissistic, violent, socially divided country. I wouldn’t blame any of you for leaving; I really don’t think it can be fixed.
Subare,
Have you ever been in the USA for any length of time?
Haven’t been there at all, jd..
Yep, Subare that about sums us up!
That place you’re describing is the West Coast and Northeast. Most of the people where I live take care of their own landscaping and home repairs when physically possible.
And your kids move to the coastal cities as soon as they can, especially if they are gay. The Great Sort continues.
Middle-class Californians are flocking to AZ, NV, and the Midwest and being replaced by illegal immigrants. It’s the same situation in the Northeast with Boston and NYC. Dallas has the second highest % gay population in the USA behind SF. The Oak Lawn-Lemmon Ave area is owned by the gays and other alternatives.
Ugh!
I live in New York City and I consider this to fit much of Subare’s description. I also view this as the least American city I’ve ever lived in. Go to Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa or some other state and you will still see truly American cities.
Subare, you are really buying into the stereotypes. I’ve been all through the US and have many American friends, and a few former love interests. Like my country, Canada, it is very diverse and there are a lot of great things about it. I have never felt unsafe in the US, nor have I seen a robbery, drive-by shooting, or even so much as someone with a gun. And the people I know are all hard-working decent people.
Trust me, it is a great place…only second to here.
You’re exactly right about America. And I’m exactly right to assume that you have at least one kangaroo and one dingo for pets. You’re also a boomerang expert. No worries, mate. : )
From where I sit, the Aussie’s right…people in LA can’t even trim their own fingernails.
Judging by the posts here, there isn’t any place on Earth worth living in. And yet billions of people live there anyway. I even hear that there are pockets of those who actually enjoy where they live.
Crazy talk, I know.
Maritimes is great (but please don’t tell anyone)
People where I live (S. Georgia) walk their dogs, go for bike rides, etc. No meth labs, relatively peaceful life.
You’re getting a biased sample of people on here who basically come here to complain and preach about how american is such a terrible place, debt ridden, etc. I live on about 1 acre, minimum size for new homes is 2 acres in my county. That’s about 10,000 sq meters. Not sure how many hectares.
America is a great place.
As for drive by shootings, that’s just laughable. That’s in the inner city, amongst drug / criminal. It’s unfortunate to say (and of course racist) but crime is much, much higher amonst minorities than the type of people you’d have in New Zealand say. If you looked at crime by race, the people here aren’t any higher than the same race of people in New Zealand or Australia, crime wise.
It’s always comical to read foreigners’ idea of the “typical” American experience. It’s all about meth labs, gang violence and every non-doctor or non-lawyer is living in a ghetto while the doctor/lawyer lives in luxury with maids and butlers. They of course get all their info either from a 1 week visit to NYC or from Hollywood. They never visit the S. Georgias, Vermonts, Montanas, Northern Californias (north of S.F. that is) or any of thousands of peaceful suburban neighborhoods that wouldn’t know a drive-by shooting if it came and bit them in the ass.
Hell I live in Las Vegas and have never seen a meth lab or a shooting. I live in a middle to upper middle class suburban area. My immediate neighbors are teachers, a real estate agent (ha ha I know, I know but he’s a nice guy), a construction foreman, an air force colonel, an accountant and a software engineer. Yes, I don’t think anyone does their own landscaping but that’s only because it is so cheap due to illegal immigrants who will clean a yard for $40 a month. It’s not laziness, it’s just too cheap not to have someone else do it. And these guys do a great job.
I personally clean my own home. A few times a year I hire window cleaners, carpet cleaners, etc but I’m not too proud to scrub my toilet.
At 6:30am there are people walking their dogs as far as the eye can see along with joggers. The public tennis courts are always full. I have no clue what my neighbors make, I’ve never asked and I’ve never been asked. If someone ever did ask I’d tell them none of their business.
So Aussie, do yourself a favor and stop reading so many blogs. You are getting a very skewed vision of the USA.
” I live in a middle to upper middle class suburban area. My immediate neighbors are teachers, a real estate agent (ha ha I know, I know but he’s a nice guy), a construction foreman, an air force colonel, an accountant and a software engineer.”
So you see what I’m saying about being socially divided: words like “middle to upper class suburb” for instance. Now the people who I socialize with range from the bloke across the road who runs his own engineering firm to the brothel madam in the next block and then there’s the boilmaker/welder whose wife runs a pie shop and the temp secretary next door. There is one area I would call “upmarket” where execs are dumped when their companies are paying for the accommodation, a banal sea of brick & tile, poor bastards.
“Yes, I don’t think anyone does their own landscaping but that’s only because it is so cheap due to illegal immigrants who will clean a yard for $40 a month. It’s not laziness, it’s just too cheap not to have someone else do it.”
It is laziness. Even if someone offered to do it here for free, no-one here would take it up. It’s a point of pride, “you mess it up, you clean it up” and I’m talking about people who can afford to pay top rates.
“At 6:30am there are people walking their dogs as far as the eye can see along with joggers.”
Ah yes, 6.30am is kids stuff but how about at 2 am?
“So you see what I’m saying about being socially divided: words like “middle to upper class suburb” for instance. Now the people who I socialize with range from the bloke across the road who runs his own engineering firm to the brothel madam in the next block and then there’s the boilmaker/welder whose wife runs a pie shop and the temp secretary next door. There is one area I would call “upmarket” where execs are dumped when their companies are paying for the accommodation, a banal sea of brick & tile, poor bastards.”
Give me a break. Here is what the BBC says of Auzzie PM John Howard:
“Mr Howard was born in Sydney on 26 July 1939. His parents ran a petrol station in a middle-class suburb.”
Here is a random link I found after typing in upper middle class Perth into google:
http://diycarhire.com.au/Guides/sydney_guide.asp
The Hornsby Plateau, known as the North Shore, was slower to develop because of its rough topography, and was mostly a quiet backwater until the Sydney Harbour Bridge was built, linking it to the city south of the harbour. Thereafter the North Shore has become widely upper-middle class suburban in character, although it has developed its own high-rise business districts at Chatswood and North Sydney.
So sure, no distinction of classes or neighborhoods in Australia, whatever you say.
“It is laziness. Even if someone offered to do it here for free, no-one here would take it up. It’s a point of pride, “you mess it up, you clean it up” and I’m talking about people who can afford to pay top rates.”
So that means Aussies take their own trash to the garbage dump, too???
Yes, I don’t think anyone does their own landscaping but that’s only because it is so cheap due to illegal immigrants who will clean a yard for $40 a month
Um, are those the same illegal immigrants everyone is complaining about for ruining schools & health care, crime, etc?
Cannot everyone see the irony in this?
end italics
Thailand is nice. Good beaches, food, culture, entertainment, etc.. The Thais love farangs (westerners) and most of them speak english to some degree. My wife and I own some property in Bangkok, and use it as an antidote for our long Alaskan winters / small town isolation.
Thailand is indeed very nice. Get out of Bangkok and you can live very well, very inexpensively. The Thai are inexplicably tolerant of all manner of bad farang habits.
nice country, but one should note that foreigners cannot own real estate in Thailand. You need to marry a local (and trust that things will be OK ever after) or establish a company with locals participating. Another option is to hire/lease something in the special areas for foreigners, but then you probably get most of the problems that people here are hoping to get rid of, including relatively high RE/land prices.
One strategy that’s in progress and working for me…secured citizenship from European country which is member of E.U. This allows for full citizenship privileges in all other EU countries while dual citizenship permited by US law.
Now in process of slimming down list to 3 finalist countries for the eventual “Great Escape”. Leading contender so far is Greece, outside Athens.
Yes, like everybody on this thread, the US is/was a magnificent country but the negatives are starting to heavily outweigh the positives. Just because I was born here, doesn’t mean I and my family have to die here.
My immigrant forefathers made a move under much more diffucult circumstances and faced numerous obstacles in pursuit of the “something better” that I’m now seeking. Just that makes it easier to pick up and go.
this is exaclty the view in my family, we areseeking a better life. some of the best americans you will find around the world doing just, a very american thing to do.
OT but you get 5k tax CREDIT not deduction but CREDIT to buy in DC -so you can help grow big gov
Instant Equity and Code of Ethics:
http://bakersfieldbubble.blogspot.com
I’ve lived in several countries so you would think I’m qualified to name a good place to live. Unfortunately, things change so quickly and so much in 30 years it is impossible to pick another country and live there under the illusion that in 20 years it will still be the same.
That said, NZ is a great country. In the 1950’s (when I was there) it was said that NZ was like the UK (which is now an overpriced toilet) but 25 years behind. Which IS NOT a bad thing. Canada is great but too cold. As you get older the cold starts to get you. Life comes from the sun and warmth. Not from the cold.
I lived in Spain in the early 70’s. Franco was in power, property was reasonably cheap and, because of General Franco, crime was close to nil. If someone molested a child for instance, he was gone real quick. For good. That has changed VERY quickly. Franco is dead and now Spain has a high crime rate, is full of low class foreigners (mostly Brits) who have cashed in on their ridiculous house prices (far worse than here) and have turned much of the nice coastal areas into Brit fish and chip sh*t holes which were once concentrated in the day trip seaside resorts of the UK like Blackpool. So, forget Spain.
I’m a Brit living in the US and I’ve live here for 30 + years. When I first arrived it was great. I’ve lived in New York and Los Angeles but I have seen a change and NOT for the better. I have American born kids and my wife was born in Detroit.
When thinking of another country you have to bear some important things in mind. If you’re older, you have to consider things like health care. A good health care system can mean you live another 10 + years or die waiting for treatment. If you have young kids you have to think of education. If you have animals you want to take with you can forget places which are “islands”. Quarantine rules will apply and in some places there is a total ban on importing animals.
The big mistake most Americans make is they think they can simply arrive in another country and stay as long as they like and get work without a permit because they are American. Bad mistake. A lot of Americans think that other countries want them because they are American. Bzzz! They don’t.
Australia is also a great country but NZ was smarter when it came to immigration. NZ restricted immigration over the years and kept out a lot of nationalities and races which they felt would have a negative impact. It looks like they were right. I’ll leave the reader to figure out which races and which nationalities without naming them in case I get called a racist. Australia is not too bad and there’s plenty of room but, because of what the world has become in the past 20 to 30 years and because the Aussie immigration laws were not as selective as NZ, they have problems. However, the Aussies are starting to be more selective but Australia, I think, has a better future than the US.
Portugal seems to be reasonably okay. Not as bad as Spain but no longer cheap. For Americans, if you were thinking of living in Spain, why bother when Mexico is just down the street? I’ve lived in Mexico as well and trust me when I say it ain’t that much different from Spain. However, Mexico wasn’t for me either. If I saw another dead animal rotting in the street for days or another bunch of mangy, starving diseased dogs roaming around, I think I would have screamed. I discovered years ago that a good indication of the level of civilization in a country is how they treat their animals. Mexico and Spain and a lot of South American countries are waaaaay down the list.
As for the other countries? Italy is okay but now too expensive for most Americans. The dollar isn’t what it was - and it isn’t going to grow stronger. Same with France. Too expensive. I’ve lived in both those countries. Ireland is great. I lived in Dublin for about a year. It’s called the Emerald Isle because it’s lush and green. That’s because it pisses down with rain all the time. The good part is the Irish are a great people and places like Dublin are fun. Also too expensive for most Americans.
Now the US. It’s still a great place to live but sadly the US is on the decline. It’s credibility and power have gone because of Bush and if places like China start dumping dollars the decline will get worse. The US will get overtaken by China at some point as the world’s super-power. A lot of us will not live to see it but US dominance of the world stage has gone.
As for those comments on “socialism”. First, the majority of Americans cannot even tell you what socialism is really about. They have been brain washed into thinking socialists and communists are the same or close cousins. They are not. It’s far too big a subject to go into but the US suffers from a serious “greed” problem and is now (far more than it was) very corrupt and could do with some aspects of socialism. That said, it still has a basically anglo saxon culture but is in the throes of changing to a latino culture. It will probably take another 30 or 50 years but it will happen and unless the US adopts some of those “dreaded socialist” habits it will not be a pretty sight. It has to get a grip on corruption and greed in corporate America. It has to address it’s very serious health care system. I have a friend who married a chinese girl two years ago. He’s a Brit and has bought a house in China and has a house in California. Suffice to say he’s blown away with how fast the Chinese are growing and he says America has no conception of just how powerful China will become.
So, bottom line is, it’s still hard to beat “the American way of life” and it’s still hard to beat some of the magnificent sights this country has to offer. Truth is, if you afford it (have a good average middle class income of $100,000 +) the US is STILL probably the best place to live but I think the american middle class will slowly diminish in size until there will be a small very wealthy upper class, a very diminished middle class and a very large lower class. Bush has already gone a long way in reaching that goal. Of course, if you make $250,000 + minimum then the US is still your best bet but if you don’t, you had better hope the US doesn’t elect anymore Bush types and start reading up about socialism and why places, like europe, started to become socialist. Mainly because a very small very rich percentage of the population (mostly the aristocrats) exploited them in the workplace and when they were old or worn out, tossed them to one side. Much like Bush and his ultra rich oil pals and corporate donors would like to do.
Excellent summary, Mike. I always tell my Eastern European friends that America is one of the best places in the world if you’re rich– and one of the worst if you’re poor.
Excellent summary, Mike. I always tell my Eastern European friends that America is one of the best places in the world if you’re rich– and one of the worst if you’re poor
Great. Please tell all of our your fellow Euro trash friends this so they stay home.
Mike, you hit the nail on the head!!! I know what you mean… I was born in a NYC burb and am very politically conservative…. and BUSH is just corrupt scum. He has used the sheeple conservatives to get HIS war and in the last election…we all stayed home. I won’t vote for him or his bushbot chronies. But I can’t vote DEMONcratic either, b/c they are just as corrupt and are very anti-traditional values IMHO. I feel like I’m a true American in the 1776 sense, and we should NOT be in this foreign entaglement of a WAR, nor should we be gloating, cause’ we ain’t special…and we should all cut our own grass..it is theraputic. Not to get off topic, but I can’t stand these losers in Vegas or Phx who can’t mow their stupid 20×20foot patch of grass. Back when, I used to gladly mow a 200×400foot yard in under 2hours every 10 days. Gives you time to think about how F’d up your country is getting. MIKE, you’re right…shamefully, the good ole USA is/has been in a steady decline since LBJ had JFK wacked. Merry Christmas Y’all.
If you think being poor in America is bad, try being poor in Russia.
Excellent commentary, Mike! I think it could be a race between China and India for world dominance although an alliance of the two is not out of the question. From what I’m reading (not on this blog), the US has the idea that if consumption retreats, China will crash however the Chinese middle-class by all accounts is burgeoning and in my opinion it will take over from where middle-class America leaves off.
China and India don’t like each other very much and have fairly recently fought against each other in a couple of wars.
You’ve lived in NY and LA? Newsflash: there is 3000 miles in between, often refered to as flyover country by elitists like you. Take a look into it, and you may be shocked to find that $100K a year is not needed to live a pretty decent life. You may be shocked to find that houses can still be be bought for $125K in many many cities. And these houses are 3 times the size of the 1 bedroom 500 sq ft dump you get in NY for $900,000.
You may be shcoked to find that $5 lattes are not a staple of life for the vast majority of people oustide of NY and LA.
You may be shocked to find that once you drive 40 miles from LA or NY, most people do not need to spend $750 on a pair oj jeans or $300 on a belt.
You may be shocked to find that some people believe the government shouldn’t run every aspect of one’s life.
Living in LA or NY has more in common with living in Paris or Berlin than it does with living in the rest of the country.
Oh and about China this and that….you sound exactly like what all the “experts” were saying 20 years ago except the big bad Asians then were Japanese not Chinese. Remember how the Japanese were going to take over? How well did that prediction turn out? Oh right but this time it’s different.
If the US goes down hard, China, India and Europe will go down harder.
“If the US goes down hard, China, India and Europe will go down harder.”
This is looking less and less likely to be the case, as Asia’s own markets continue to grow.
We keep hearing about how we’re going to fall behind China and India in science and technology. Last year my company hired five Chinese and Indian engineers “straight off the boat”, as they say. They all boasted fantastic resumes, filled with great degrees and extensive work experience.
And they’ve been disasters, every one of them. I find that they have good textbook knowledge but poor real world problem solving skills. I keep them busy by giving them analysis problems that I don’t feel like doing but I can’t trust them to design or manage anything (effectively a PhD electrical engineer from China is being managed by an American technician with an associate’s degree in electronics). I also find that they are unable to handle complexity, which is of course necessary for any business.
The Asian cultures are very different from ours. I see a huge reluctance to admit errors, which is death in product development. They’re also much more passive and much more reluctant to bounce ideas around (I suspect for fear of sounding stupid). The exchanges I’ve had with them lead me to believe that their cultures do not foster innovation nearly as much as our own does.
Just my 2 cents from my little chunk of the world.
People in the US talked similarly about the first products from Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. The important thing wasn’t how the products were at a certain point in time. The important thing was the rate of improvement and the likelihood of the continuation of that improvement. 20 years later, those cultures that produced subpar products and people (probably because they had such a hard time innovating or solving problems) seemed to have done ok for themselves.
And later the pendulum swung the other way in the 80s as Arabs or Asians or whatever were going to buy up the US and turn it into a parking lot. But the US responded too. The present and past are hints at what the future holds. They’re not guarantees.
Competition is a wonderful thing. From the big dogs to the lowly but very hungry upstarts, it’s fascinating to see how people respond to it…
…and how they don’t.
The Asian-Americans I work with who are first generation Americans tend to be as you describe. They have problems with their accents. One of them tried to get work outside the company and was rejected because the interviewer could not understand him. Those who refuse to at least get language coaching have narrower career choices. This leads some to hide the details of their work from others, for fear someone else may understand how to do their job. It’s job security. Some of these hard-to-understand first generation Asians are very bright, but they cannot get top dollar when opportunity knocks. Sad for them, but they refuse to recognize the language problem. Their loss and my gain. I’m a contract engineer, and I can be understood very well coast to coast. I also make a point to document my work well in writing. The clients all love that.
Mr. Pig,
The my country right or wrong rant is not very convincing. Mike’s assessments of our position in the world and some relevant threats seemed pretty thoughtful-though some of the racist stuff seems over the top. Since WWII Americans have just assumed supremacy. For most of that time we earned it. Sounds like you.life most Americans, think it is a birthright. Recently, we have been making decisions (alienate the world, run an insolvent chrony-hobbled government, give out funny money) that call our status into question. China is coming on like a perfect storm and 1950s bravado is hardly a good response.
One thing that I find odd here is that I’ve lived in a lot of places across the US (midwest (IL), south (TX), west (CA)), big cities and small. I liked some places more than others, but there weren’t many places where I thought “man, I need to get out as soon possible because this place is such a POS.” There were some things that bugged me in varying degrees, but mostly, I have overall favorable memories of the places I lived in.
Or maybe my living expectations are just so much lower than everybody else’s here.
The stuff about race-based immigration to NZ is nonsense. Australia had a “white Australia” policy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy - until 1973, but NZ has never discriminated on the basis of race, although it has quite high skill or monetary thresholds.
indeed, just take a walk on the streets of Auckland NZ and you will see that many citizens have Asian/Polynesian and not European background; it is a true melting pot like the US used to be. There are some problems with the Maori (which are mostly similar to problems with other cultures that exist everywhere in Europe and the US) and some of the people from Polynesian islands because for those ‘high skill’ treshold does not apply. NZ is doing so well in letting Asians and other people into the country that many citizens from EU origin are starting to feel a bit threatened…
Well said, Mike!
Socialism vs. Communism. Socialism is not communism. it is a means toward becoming communist without all that bloodshed. It’s the liberals sneaky way of pushing a nation toward communism. There is no steady state in socialism. It’s always changing toward more government. Frederich Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom” explains how that was done in Great Britain early last century. However if Hayek were alive now, he would have been aware that G.B. has backed off of some of the socialist policies, thus seeming to contradict his thesis that you cannot get out of socialism without a revolution.
In the United States’ case, we have all become better off when wealthy people are taxed less, contrary to Mr. Mike’s assessment. In the early 1960s, JFK coaxed Congress to cut the maximum tax rate on the wealthy from 90% to 70%. This helped the U.S. economy in the 1960s. The stock market indices did well that decade. In 1981, Ronald Reagan coaxed the Congress to cut the maximum tax rate to 35% (and eventually it was increased up to 38%). Also there was massive deregulation. The economy was then the new economy, lots more jobs were created although old types of jobs were disappearing overseas. It was turning America into the Knowledge economy. The stock market flourished for nearly two decades. I earned $22,500 in 1985 and $62,000 in 2000, but my 401k grew to $400,000 by the year 2000. Thanks to Capitalism. Wealthy people do not put all their money under a mattress. They put their money to work by investing in business and equities. in turn, business creates jobs. Who started Apple Computer? How many jobs were created from Apple? Did Apple do this as a welfare scheme or to create profits? I am sick and tired of these snotty-nosed arrogant European types who still say Americans have nothing to fear from socialism.
Nice commentary Mike…
I’ve been to NZ perhaps 9 times since 1981 and watched it go from the ultimate craddle to grave socialist country to a rip roaring wide open society, in the course of 25 years. One thing heavily in NZ’s favor: Because of really high import duties, until the mid 1980’s, people tended to be incredibly self sufficent and keeping your 1958 Morris Minor in working condition, or any other item that came from overseas, was of utmost importance. New Zealanders still posess this key quality, an important factor, in the makeup of a people, in this day and age. Our last trip to NZ, last year, was just in the South Island, for 2 months and we met tons of 1st worlder types, with the right credentials, that were offered a 1 year work visa, to see if they liked it. We met nurses from Germany, electrical engineers from Argentina, etc. They have the makings of an enlightened, educated multi cultural society. It might take a generation, but it will happen.
Splendid isolation~
Switzerland
Croatia (Dalmatian Coast)
Thailand (Phuket)
New Zealand
Australia (Victoria or Western Australia)
South of France
Lichtenstein
Austrian Alps
As a US Citizen who has spent an average of 6 months out of the US for the last 10 years, I have a pretty good grip on these things.
I have just returned from a full year abroad and was not all that excited about returning. The US is bloated in too many ways. I will always be an American, but…
How could I forget:
Barcelona/Malaga/Sevilla
you don’t have a good grip on spelling, though. This is the correct way: Liechtenstein.
True, there is a place spelled Lichtenstein, but that is a (very beautiful romantic) castle in Southern Germany. But has nothing to do with the country of Liechtenstein, you show up…
Subare has it right. I grew up in America, having lived in CA and TX, and traveled and vacationed in at least 1/2 of the states. and moved to Australia in 2000 (age of 31). Sure, not all America is consumed by meth-labs, etc. But the very real, perceptible difference, is that in America people talk about meth-labs, drive by shootings, etc., in a casual way. In Australia, those sorts of things are so far outside of anybody’s perception of what reality is like, they are never spoken of. In America, a dead body found in the middle of LA would hardly make the local news, let alone national news. However, in Australia it would be the top story nation-wide, and probably followed up for several days. There is much less fear among people. Many don’t bother locking up their houses, or their cars, etc. It just doesn’t occur to people that they might need to because theft is so very rare.
Another example. In America the big political news were things like Iran Contra, Monica Lewinsky, Watergate, wars in Iraq, etc. The big political news in Australia, that was on the front page of the newspapers for weeks and weeks when I first got there, was the revelation that the girlfriend of the son of an MP (Minister of Parliament) had gotten ahold of the MP’s government cell phone account and charged about ~$30k USD on it. That was the big political blowout of 2000. Made me think, if this is the biggest problem in Australia, taking up 20% of all the news space, things must be pretty damn good here. And it is….
Therefore, I would highly suggest Australia as a relocation destination. The added bonus is that Australian residency comes with AUTOMATIC New Zealand residency (and vice versa). So you really get two countries to explore.
the automatic NZ residency bonus is not true; rules are changing and I think you can only apply for this after having been in Oz for 5 or 10 years (so for those are looking for a nice place to retire certainly not an option).
So, bottom line is, it’s still hard to beat “the American way of life” and it’s still hard to beat some of the magnificent sights this country has to offer. Truth is, if you afford it (have a good average middle class income of $100,000 +) the US is STILL probably the best place to live but I think the american middle class will slowly diminish in size until there will be a small very wealthy upper class, a very diminished middle class and a very large lower class.
Gimme a break ya stinkin’ Brit. The poor in this country have iPods, Cell Phones, access to medical care, cable television, public schools, and everything else. I can’t stand the negativity of the Left. I’m not saying everything is coming up roses, but most people in the world would do anything to live in the USA and get to that first step on the ladder. What you do when you get there is your business.
Another thing, I can’t stand when you f’in foreigners bad mouth Bush or whoever it is that’s not a red. Enron, WorldCom, and accounting scandals happened on Clinton’s watch. The Bush justice dept. is cleaning up the mess.
“The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.” H.L. Mencken, known as the “Sage of Baltimore” and the “American Nietzsche”.
Gimme a break ya stinkin’ Brit. The poor in this country have iPods, Cell Phones, access to medical care, cable television, public schools, and everything else.
Tragic comedy at its finest.
My hero! (Mencken, that is)
All I can say is “Wow”. You’re comments are one of the reason that people think Americans are small-minded and biggoted. the poor don’t have iPods, cell phones and Bush certainly is making the rest of the world look at the US as a bunch of ignorant hicks. And before you start into me as some ignorant foreigner, I would point out that I’ve served with a lot of your military. In fact, I was just spending time with your boys in Afghanistan. They don’t seem to have the problem with foreigners (i.e. Brits) that you do.
bc-cele:
I’d have to agree, as a property owner in some of the poorest neighborhoods, the poor have better toys (big screen TVs, new cars, cell phones, etc.) than I have, or at least they acquire these things much earlier than I do. It’s a question of priorities, and mine (and most middle class) are things like health insurance, whereas the poor usually only think about what goodies they can spend their last paycheck on. Don’t believe me? My friend in Tarzana, CA was totally surprised (about 6 months ago) that his housekeeper, who has no health insurance, went bought a new minivan. So think twice before you guys blame the Republicans or whoever else for our underclass.
Strange, I don’t believe that I blamed anyone for the poverty. The poor are there no matter what, even says so in the Bible. I think one problem is that the definition of poor you have is certainly not one the rest of the world has. Someone who works and can afford a car is NOT poor. Someone who can afford electronic trinkets is NOT poor. I’ve talked to members of your military that have come from areas in the traditional south as well as Indiana, and upstate New York that live with people that can’t afford a car, and live in trailers because anything else is too expensive.
As for the middle class being so concerned about more lofty goals, such as health care, you have to be joking. I haven’t met one ‘middle class’ American that wasn’t spending themselves into huge debt. This is a bubble blog afterall, do you not see the irony?
the poor don’t have iPods, cell phones and Bush certainly is making the rest of the world look at the US as a bunch of ignorant hicks.
The poor don’t have iPods or cell phones? What planet are you living on? Open your eyes.
Look, It’s not my fault you hate Bush. I really don’t care honestly.
To say the poor don’t have iPods or cell phones is just ignorant and blind. I would agree with the comments below. Part of the reason they are part of the underclass is because they go into debt with cars, phones, big screens, credit cards, and are just plain irresponsible with their finances. Everyone gets the same opportunity in this country. I’m first generation here in America as well as my siblings. We all started at 0, and all of us have managed to save quite a bit and become part of the middle class.
As far as poverty goes, the best way to avoid poverty is to get a job, an education, and don’t have kids out of wedlock.
Your idea that gov’t is to blame is ridiculous and insulting.
I’m not saying everything is perfect here, but sometimes you don’t realize how good you have it until you don’t have it.
I live on planet earth, not sure where you’re residing. How about taking a tour of countries such as the Sudan, Afghanistan, Somolia, or Cambodia, then you’ll see what poor is.
You don’t care about what people think about Bush, yet you keep mentioning it in all your posts? Actually, you should care because he has damaged your reputation internationally.
Everyone has the same chance in the US? Now you look like your standing on Jupiter. Open you eyes, do you think Paris Hilton did anything to deserve what she has? Do you think a crack-addicted baby is going to have any chance of getting a PhD? Get real. I also love your attitude of blaming the poor. If running up huge debts buying big screen TVs, iPods and other useless items were the reason people are poor than just about everyone in the middle class would be living in the inner-cities. How much debt did you and your middle class friends run up this year for Christmas? Nough said.
The best way to avoid poverty is not to choose your parents well. You seem to have the libertarian affliction of thinking that all you need to do is keep your legs closed and nose in a book until you graduate university with a magical piece of paper that unlocks the kingdom called ‘middle class’. This just isn’t the case. I was just in the Rochester area before Christmas and they were lamenting that the graduation rate for the school system was only 50%. So, in your opinion, the rate is so low because they are, what, genetically, or socially defective?
Blaming the government? What planet are you on? Show me one phrase in my OP that would suggest I blamed the government for the social woes? Perhaps, if you took the blinders off your eyes, the fingers out of your ears, and stopped huming long enough to get a good look at reality, you may find things are not what you think.
How about taking a tour of countries such as the Sudan, Afghanistan, Somolia, or Cambodia, then you’ll see what poor is
I would agree that poverty is in these countries and it is perpetual. If you live here in the U.S. you are lucky no matter what your circumstances. Even the poorest people in the U.S. are much better off than a large % of the rest of the world.
Paris Hilton? Can’t you do better than that? Less than 10% of millionaires inherit their wealth. Most millionaires are first generation. Take a poll on this blog and I’ll bet most are first genration.
Facts are stubborn things aren’t they? If you are educated, work hard, and don’t have kids out of wedlock, your chances of living in poverty are greatly diminished. Facts are facts my friend.
Take a tour of Sudan, Afghanistan, Somolia, or Cambodia? I’d rather not. They live in squalor because they do not have a Constitutional government that guarantees individual rights. Most poor countries are that way. Why is South Korea significantly more wealthy than North Korea? why was West Germany a thriving economy while East Germany (under Communism) was a horrible economy? How about Hong Kong versus Communist China? Milton Friedman pointed all this out many many years ago. It’s the left’s tactic to not bring this up so that people forget about it but economic freedom creates more wealth for all of the citizens in the country that practices it.
Yes, americans do have all the crap like tv’s, ipods, etc. They also have MASSIVE debts and are the most brainwashed (subtle) nation on earth.
I think any of the Rocky Mountain states is about as good as it gets in the US. They seem to be the cleanest and most fairly priced.
Chile or Uruguay…
Or Slovenia!
Canada is OK, but too dependant on USA.
Why leave the country?? Just leave the bubble markets!! I moved from San Francisco to Atlanta earlier this year… I am absolutely thrilled with the change. Atlanta, Dallas, Charlotte, Houston, Nashville… the South is definitely under-rated!!
I am with you brian,
I have lived in Sweden. Great place. Nice people, clean, safe, very expensive and cold. I like Thailand too. People are wonderful. NZ sounds lovely.
But I still love the US. Real estate bubbles are usually regional and periodic. Corrupt regimes come and go. My thing is the landscape. I love the places. National Parks, trout streams, beaches, cities. I am sure I would enjoy many places and cultures, but I think I would miss the places I know already.
I am waiting to hear on a Fulbright to spend several months doing research in Western Ireland in 2008. Eager as hell to see the place, people, and enjoy the guinness and music. But if I go, I know that I will be just as eager to get back to my old stomps stateside. My neck of the woods is the Klamath Region (S. Oregon, N. Cal), with favorite spots all over the west US. More great places to see than I have free days the rest of my life. So, unless things really go to hell, I will try to work here and visit a few of those other places as I can. And try not to be too much of an obnoxious American.
I just returned from the Finger Lakes region in upstate New York, and although I live in the Rockies right now, I was really impressed by what I saw there. I’m not sure about how expensive the RE is, but everything else was really reasonable. Food was really cheap and you were only a few hours from NYC and Boston. Seems like a great place to be.
I’m a native of Ithaca (heart of the Finger Lakes) and am visiting from SF for the holidays. I will always love the area for its natural beauty. RE is a bit high in Ithaca (good schools) but not far out of town you can leave very inexpensively. Plenty of culture due to Cornell’s influence. But I wouldn’t choose to live here based on proximity to NYC (4.5 hrs) or Boston (6 hrs). The surrounding rural areas are depressed and depressing; so many small towns look like they haven’t changed since the 1920’s.
From what you and Ex-NewYorker have said, it seems to be a sad situation. It is really a beautiful area of the country and the people were really friendly. It’s a shame about the taxes, I understand why NYC would be expensive for property tax, but that area surpsises me.
“I just returned from the Finger Lakes region in upstate New York, and although I live in the Rockies right now, I was really impressed by what I saw there. I’m not sure about how expensive the RE is, but everything else was really reasonable. Food was really cheap and you were only a few hours from NYC and Boston. Seems like a great place to be.”
Looks can be deceiving. Upstate New York is beautiful but decades of extremely high New York taxes and business regulation have actually killed the economy. Check out the real estate taxes. You might need $20,000 or $30,000 a year to pay the property tax if someone gave you a $1 million house free and clear. There is no hope for New York as the high taxes are here permanently and anyone with any brains or talent or gets the heck out as soon as they get a clue.
Right… real estate is cheap in upstate NY, but the property taxes are outrageous.
I have not seen anyone promote Iran. This WAS the capital of the world 4000 years ago. There are some nice ski areas -cheap (think Vail)-, and great beachfront property along the Caspian sea( think Annapolis)! There are islands just 40 miles north of Dubia (really, really hot during the summer)that are going for nothing!!! Come on!!
I’m really not joking.
For my friends that make $1M, year — Chile or Panama are great. I have one friend that fits this catagory, and does own land in Panama. The other 1000+ people I know don’t make $1M /yr and don’t think Panama or Costa Rico is their place to be.
Once this credit bubble explodes, land will be cheap again - everywhere. Keep your powder dry - even Canada and Mexico will be cheap again.
Even I “own” land in Mexico - until the next socialistic government.
I am a french speaking canadian, and trust me California will be independant soon… first bilingualism with spanish, then someone will shout “Long live free California!” just like De Gaulle shouted “Long live free Quebec!”.
California has absolutely no profit being in the union… for its demographic weight it has only 2 senators, is sucked dry of its food and fruits, and is despised by a middle and east which find us too “socialist”. f**** ‘em. I am culturally close to my spanish friends here and I know it is inevitable Cali will be a separate state soon… not part of Mexico but a free and independant entity.
I plan to switch to LA when the heat down in San Diego will start… too many military bases. It will Yugosliavia all over again with infighting for control of those.
Give it 10 years to happen… as the desintegration and “space shutte type hole in the wing” effect of the Iraq war starts to eat at the US from the inside.
Heck maybe the downing of shuttle Columbia (which means America) in 2003 was an Omen…
That would be simply great! So much tax money net goes out of so many states and into Cali!, it would be great to bring it all home again.
By the time Cali goes independent, it will suddently realize that while it has lots of growable land, it has negligible fresh water. It will come crying back for repatriation.
Marc -
You can’t be serious. I’m an American with a French Canadian heritage… The history of Quebec is night and day different from that of California. Quebec politicians get a lot of mileage out of the “separation” card. I can’t imagine what a Californian politician might get out of pushing separating. The people who might support such a move can’t vote…(unlike in Quebec)
I could definitely see political unrest from immigration but separation? To what benefit and to whom?
No it will be annexed by China like British Columbia.
Yes and No. If you are a Chicano, you can understand. USA acquired by force California, Arizona, Nuevo Mexico, Texas, Nevada, half of Mexican territory from Mexico. It would be sweet justice to see these state mexicanized again. Mexicans do not perceive that there is border. They are right.
Mexico took the land from Spain, so it really belongs to Spain. It would be sweet to see Spain take over Mexico again.
This blog has been great for discussion of the housing crunch but some of the political commentary is hi-fucking-larious, IM(Not So)HO. Way too negative and often crazily stereotyped.
I sold in DC April 2006 before moving to Laos thanks to Ben and the various commentators here. Good, thought provoking insight and it was nice to see I was not alone in thinking prices were odd.
My two cents–the U.S. will do just fine. We’ll blunder through mostly because we have a fairly responsive economy. China will do well too, but has plenty of its own problems–banking sector is screwed, SOEs are problematical, environmental issues, labor shortages (yes, its true…), etc. China being powerful does not mean the U.S. must be absolutely weaker. India is almost like Brazil–the country of the future, and it always will be.
Too many illegals here but I still think we’ll eventually fix the system to something more rational (i.e. something that supports skilled labor rather than unskilled.) Too many hispanic and immigration apologists forget the 40 years of almost zero immigration mid 20th century and the role it played in people assimilating. And while there are plenty of horror stories (I see them in government), most of the illegals I have come across/know of do come to work. Our fault for not dealing with the realities and controlling the border. Our shame for for screwing over unskilled Americans.
Lots of places in the world worth living. But as the Eagles say “Call someplace paradise, kiss it goodbye.” man I love that song.
Current favorite place–South Tirol in Italy. Italian food, German efficiency/cleanliness, and amazing scenery.
Canada? Fine, as long as you don’t get sick. Otherwise, hope you enjoy long waits for medical treatment. Socialized medicine a deal killer for me.
But at least you don’t lose your house because of the bills. You can always go to a private hospital but you will be ruined. That’s total bull. The waiting times in Canada are more that acceptable. As for the US your health is system is just fine if you are very rich. The middle class really gets on the chin with the medical mafia.
What, you think we don’t have waits here? My husband is scheduled for surgery next month for a condition he was diagnosed with in November. He had to wait 2+ weeks to see a surgeon and another month for the surgery. In the meantime, we’re living day to day wondering if today is the day we have to run to the emergency room again.
Thank you, Kaiser Permanante.
In the US you can be a millionaire and lose it all because you get sued for a few millions or you get sick.
You can be canadian and earn as much as you want abroad. If you are a US citizen you will get taxed over 80k even if you are a long term resident abroad. Failure to file your tax declaration is grounds for anulment of your american citizenship and a felony charge, even if you are a natural born american citizen.
Welcome to the new USSR… oops USA. Thanks to the patriot act.
Sounds like my HMO!
Anyways you should the Iraki medical system. It’s been doing just fine since you are there. I hear that Afghanistan medical care is just fantastic. Stop complaining about Canada. It’s not medical hell. And the US is no paradise if you are poor or a middle class. The US doctors are real greedy bloodsuckers too.
You should try ….. Irak.
Canada is close by- and is much less materialistic then American culture-health care is much cheaper or for nothing- sure taxes are higher, but in the end you get what you pay.
France has some wonderful places to live especially in Brittany- and housing is cheap- health care is nationalized.
The Scandinavian countries offer an incredibly high standard of living, with socialized medicine.
Switzerland is very desirable as well.
The USA is quickly becoming a nation of the haves and have nots-
with the CEO’s oil companies, health care/insurance companies, and mega corporations and their wealthiest shareholders having increasing power over the low and middle class-
I’m not sure Canada’s taxes are THAT much higher than those in many US states. I live in California and pay 28% federal, 9.3% state, 7.5% social security/medicare (and another 7.5% because I’m self-employed), for a total of 52.3% on the majority of my income. I believe my income tax would be comparable or maybe even lower in Canada.
8.5% sales tax in SF is lower than in some Canadian provinces, but higher than at least one that I know of (Alberta).
At least they get free health care up there. I get to pay for my own insurance AND there’s no guarantee that it will even be available to me at any price if, god forbid, I ever develop a “pre-existing condition.”
Good analysis. There is something really wrong in the US with the healthcare system. You have a MAJOR problem controlling the costs and giving a minimum to everyone. In certain cases the US is rated at the same level with South America ! I am thinking about pregnant mothers. The death at birth is very surprising compared to European countries and Canada.
A colleague engineer I worked with in the late 90s told me at the time that he worked in Canada. His income tax was at the 70% rate. There you go. Have fun up north!
Whilst still working:
London, Stockholm, Helsinki, Sydney, Tokyo - honest, hardworking people with good healthcare
Once retired:
South West France - ditto, but better food & wine
‘The mountainous terrain of northern Chile is studded with precious metals, a natural cache that for years has had investors angling for land rights. So when the world’s largest gold mining company targeted about 20,000 acres owned by Rodolfo Villar, a mineral speculator, he signed a contract. Only later, he said, did he realize how much the company had agreed to pay him: About $19.’
I’m an American of Canadian birth.I find it amusing to read endless foreigners bad mouth the US-Especially when they’re Quebecois living In California! Quebec hasn’t left Canada after 30+ years threats and you think Cali will leave? Please.Put down the bong.Marc Authier? Canadian are you? Well I’m middle class US and I have no complaints about US healthcare or my standard of living.One of the most irritating things about Canada is intense smugness and air of superiority Canadians have when discussing the US.Save it.I’ve been to Ontario recently (Sarnia and Windsor) and I was shocked at how run down they were-and I live near Detroit! I’ve got a friend who goes fishing in rural Ontario.The nearest town gets its drinking water off trucks! The really sad thing is Ontario is Canada’s richist province-but if it were a US state it would be almost the poorest! Amazing huh? bc_cele:I work with a Canadian who commutes from Windsor.He’s always shopping here, getting things shipped to our workplace,etc.The reason why is the Goods and Services tax.How much is that tax? 17%? So far as I know everyone in Canada pays that tax even if they’re poor.The US has no equivalent.How can you leave that out when discussing relative tax rates?
He he well all I was saying is that I will travel without moving, like Jamiroquai said
Cali will become an independant state, wether the rest of the US wants it or not.
I also heard some natural born canadians who were americans went on to fight in Vietnam and got royally screwed. They can’t claim any benefits in the states are it’s canada who has to take care of them in its medical system.
Also heard about the illegal experiments the CIA did in Montreal back in the 70s?
With a big brother/friend down south like that, Canada doesn’t need enemies.
As for tax rates, I agree they are at the level of innacceptable… but at least the politics are not boring. At the 1997 referendum in Quebec the participation rate was 92%!!! Try that at any election in America.
That said multinationals don’t need to move anywhere… their grip is transnational. Where you live as a person might be an issue housing wise, but it is not an issue for any of the entities that really control american politics through lobbies etc… they can just be anywhere and nothing changes for them.
I was actually going to address the sales tax, but forgot. The OP said that tax ranged from 7%-25%, which again is dead wrong. The Ontario tax is 14% - I’m sitting in London right now - where you get 17% from is beyond me. BTW 14% is the 2nd highest rate in the country, PEI is the only one higher at 16%.
As for using Sarnia and Windsor, what areas are you visiting? If you got out of the areas around the Casino in Windsor and out to the newer areas you’d see that there are some great neighbourhoods. Same with Sarnia, Chemical Valley is a pit, but it certainly isn’t the whole city. This would be like me saying that Detroit is a hole because I was around 8 or 10 mile road. Of course I’d had to skip places like Grosse Point and Belle Isle. I also dated a girl up in Drayton Plains (near W. Bloomfield), not exactly the same is it? I could also say that NY must be a real poor state because I was just in the Rochester area and the towns there are quite old. How about talking about Toronto, London, Ottawa, or K-W?
Again, the poor (those earning less than 9K single and up to 18K for two incomes) don’t pay income tax - how long ago was it when you left? I was an accountant back in 92 and even then personal amount was long established. Of course, you did say ‘as far as you know’, which from what I’ve read shows that you don’t know much.
Bermuda. if you can afford it.
I think the comment that national health care is ‘bad’ is not valid. The comment above about loosing your home if you become ill is certainly true.
Most Americans have not the vaguest idea about ‘Socialism’ is and have the decades old idea that it is ‘communism’. Health care costs in the USA are a national travesty and shameful. Most countries in Western Europe have health care that is equal if not better then what is available here without the incredible costs.
The countries of Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland have superior health care to what Americans have- for free.
It truly amazes me that the supposedly richest greatest nation on Earth parleys out the basic need for health care to an increasingly privileged few.
Not to mention every $ invested in social programs like crime prevention, support to single mothers, activities for youth or free birth control to poors, comes back tenfold in less crime and dropout rate in school!
That’s a lie. Government programs ALWAYS cause more crime, except for the free birth control maybe, but that’s just killing future criminals in the womb. Any support to single mothers and their little hoodlums hurts the decent people who end up paying the taxes and end up as victims of the criminals.
Where you live is simply a matter of what YOU think is important to your life style. I tried living in the country for 6 months. Great house, incredible countryside….and I was bored out of my mind. For me (but maybe not for YOU) I prefer city living but I must admit it’s getting harder with grid locked streets, pollution, overbuilding, etc. Also, City dwellers are now looked upon as cash cows for local, state and federal government. Also, knowing there is a 24 hour store a short distance away is important even though I may never need a 24 hour store.
Being in a tropical paradise is nice but looking out across sandy beaches and miles of empty ocean soon gets real old. So, the answer to where you would like to live depends on YOUR preferences and, of course, your bank account. The greatest cities in the world like Paris, London or Rome are paradise IF you can afford to live there and don’t have to be on the day-to-day survival treadmill. Only 30 or 40 years ago, many americans could live like kings in these places but not anymore. The major cities in Europe are far more expensive to live in than than the major US cities BUT, I am sensing that the US is catching up fast on the “expensive places to live” list. A good restaurant meal (for instance) in Los Angeles might set you back $50 per. person. The same kind of resturant in a european city will cost you $150 per. person.
Someone posted earlier that there are plenty of small towns in America where you can buy a nice house for $120,000 and you don’t need an “elitist” income of $100,000 a year. True. I’m sure those towns are nice and the people are nice but I couldn’t live in a small town. It’s a personal preference thing. I also happen to like the anglo saxon culture so in a city, I live in places which are predominately white anglo saxon. Do I dislike latinos or blacks or asians? No. In fact I sometimes drive to LA’s China town for a day out or to Orange County to the asian areas for a day out because I like the diversity of a city. However, I have NO interest in living in a muslim country or an African country. A “russian style” country holds no interest for me either but I do like living around asian indians who are not muslim. Again, it’s a preference thing.
I like (for want of a better word) the “energy” that a city gives off. However, there are others who like the opposite. There are blacks who prefer black communities. Ditto asians. Ditto latinos. Some people like the quiet life a countryside setting has to offer. Others like the desert. Some mountain areas. Some like outside activities and sports. I don’t. The weather is important. I don’t like snow and rain. Others love four seasons. Some get depressed in gloomy weather. So, it’s all a matter of preference and all those things have to be taken into consideration if you decide to move to another country. The BIG thing I have noticed, be you american, brit or anything else, is to try and NOT impose your culture on the country you move to and expect the same “levels” you left behind. There used to be a problem with that about 50 years ago when the Brits were immigrating to Australia by the thousands. In order to “populate” Australia, the British government had a program where, for about $50 they would pay your fare to Australia (on immigrant ships). I worked on those immigrant ships. You had to stay at least 2 years or pay the British government the full amount expense wise if you returned to the UK because you decided you didn’t like Australia. However, the Aussie’s complained (and rightly so) that the immigrants tried to change Australians into Brits (there is a difference!) In other words, if you move to country which has a different culture, you had better be prepared for some changes. For white anglo saxons, moving to places (if you can get accepted) like NZ or Australia isn’t much of a culture shock but moving to places like India or some Asian countries can be pretty traumatic and the “thrill” of living somewhere new might soon wear off.
Interesting thoughts Mike,
I agree. To each his or her own with respect to places to live.
What gives with the anglo saxon thing? Certainly the English had a huge role in establishing the common law and governing structure of this country historically, but the Scots-Irish, Irish,Germans, Italians, Scandinavians,and many others have shaped American culture to a great degree as well. Even the English are celtic as well as anglo saxon, so there is hardly a clear pedigree to be found culturally or biologically. There seems to be an implied racial purity in your preferences that does not seem very precise. To the degree that you mean certain cultural expectations in a northern European-founded culture works for you, that makes sense to me too. All the sandy beaches in the world wear thin if you do not have sanitary running water. Northies do that well, but so to the far easties.
Mr. Fester
I worded that badly. I didn’t mean just “anglo saxon”. I meant northern european cultures in general and that includes irish, scots, etc. In fact, I’ve lived close to Jewish communities at times and I had no problem because they were law abiding, wanted the best for their kids, etc.
I have not lived close to a muslim community but, even though I might sound politically incorrect, I have no wish to from what I’ve seen. The one time I lived in a non-white area (a mix of black and latino) I was broken into twice and lost about $20,000 in total, robbed at gunpoint once outside a 7/11 store and had my car stolen once. It was recovered. Damaged and missing the radio, etc. All in a 6 month period. That did it for me as far as integration was concerned. That might sound harsh but I’m not in the market to be an experiment in the culture wars. In that area, I’m quite happy to stay “politically incorrect” and in the white middle class communities.
I lived in Ecuador for two years. The Expat community is pretty lucky there. The Quito area has wonderful climate, alot of culture, nice folks, and is relatively safe(don’t kidnap like nearbye countries). It’s still pretty cheap. Any of the larger cities in the mountains are nice also. It’s actually highly rated in a major Expat magazine.
Great spectacular volcanoes too in Ecuador and beautiful women.