January 5, 2007

Florida Housing Market Has “Gone Sour”

The Bradenton Herald reports from Florida. “When a job opportunity led Heritage Harbour homeowner Richard Brody to move across the country, he knew selling his house would be rough. ‘By the time I listed my home, the market had already gone sour,’ Brody said.”

“The Heritage Harbour Master Association sent a letter to Brody last month telling him the small For Sale sign he had in his yard is no longer allowed. ‘We were flooded with complaints from homeowners because the neighborhood looked awful,’ said Rob Allegra, Lennar division president for Sarasota/Manatee.”

“Lennar, the developer and sole builder within Heritage Harbour, still maintains majority control in the homeowner’s association because the neighborhood has not reached 90 percent completion. ‘Developers will take every advantage they possibly can,’ said (realtor) Peter Evans, who listed Brody’s home. ‘In the case of Heritage Harbour, they’re going to continue doing things for their benefit.’”

“In East Manatee’s adult community, The Cascades, the addendum was a way to weed out the investors that had been infiltrating the market, said Reine Jesel, sales manager at the Levitt and Sons community. ‘They (Heritage Harbour) encouraged the investor and now they are irritated with them because they are cutting into their business,’ Jesel said.”

“Brody said it isn’t just the banning of signs that is holding back the sale of his house. Priced at a point where he won’t make a profit on the home, he still can’t compete with the discounts of the developer. ‘Several people who looked at my house in the last couple months have bought new houses because they’re giving them away,’ Brody said.”

The News Press. “Lee County’s pace of construction slowed last year as a huge inventory of unsold houses piled up. That inventory has also led to a substantial drop in the median price of an existing home. November’s price was $258,600, down 12 percent from a year earlier.”

“‘I think building permits are down for a good reason right now,’ (realtor) Brett Ellis said. ‘Builders are canceling projects. Why wait six months, nine months for a new home to be built when you can get a new one already existing?’”

“Jim York, who has been building houses in Lee County for 11 years, said business was good in the first part of 2006 but that ‘to be honest it’s pretty much dried up since then. There just hasn’t been a lot of activity.’”

The Orlando Sentinel. “The first Martha Stewart-inspired development in Florida will be built by KB Home on 31 acres southwest of Windermere, company representatives confirmed this week.”

“Mark Kistler, an assistant professor at North Carolina State University, bought a home in July in the first Stewart-affiliated community, a development called Twin Lakes in Cary, N.C. He said Stewart’s name did play a role in his family’s decision.”

“But the clincher for the sale was the price he got from the developer, who was eager to remove the home from its inventory after the first buyer backed out of a contract. Kistler said he paid about $359,000, or $41,000 less than the original asking price.”

“A former instructor at the University of Florida, Kistler said he is still trying to sell his house near Gainesville, though after nine months he has had no takers for the 2,100-square-foot home offered for $309,900. ‘The market here [near Raleigh] is definitely stronger than in Florida,’ he said.”

The Herald Tribune. “The first barrier island vacation rental that Warren Hickernell converted to a condominium-hotel sold out quickly, but that was the spring of 2005. Now Hickernell has millions tied up in a handful of former mom-and-pop motels that are hitting the market with fresh paint and granite countertops, but no buyers.”

“‘Look at the market; 2006 was a time where everybody stood on the sideline,’ Hickernell said. ‘It gave me time to get the renovations done. It also means there’ve been no pre-sales.’”

“Working with various partners, Hickernell has acquired vacation rental, motel and hotel properties on several barrier islands. He has gutted and renovated most of them with the idea of selling the units as small slices of paradise. Say 702 square feet for $653,900.”

“In the meantime, he said weekends are booking strongly, though he did not have exact occupancy figures. The Capri was running a grand opening special of $89 per night on weekdays through Jan. 15. The Pearl Beach Inn on Manasota Key was offering three weekend nights for $350.”

“Hickernell said the discounts are to attract a new clientele. ‘All those renters are potential buyers,’ he said.”




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89 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-01-05 05:54:01

‘Gainesville’s Mike Blanchard is like a lot of homeowners — wide-eyed at his property tax bill. He owns three rental homes and three rental townhomes. ‘The only way I can figure it out is if they are taking that much less from the homeowners, they are going to have to shift more of the onus on the businesses,’ Blanchard said. ‘That’s where it’s killing me because I have a bunch of investment properties.’

‘ Norm Finn has lived at 181 Cocoanut St. in downtown Englewood for 10 years. His wife owned the home 20 years before that. More than a decade ago, the home’s $40,000 mortgage was paid off. In ensuing years, it has been refinanced. Finn has a $242,900 mortgage through Bank of America.’

‘A letter arrived in October telling him his policy was being rewritten to cover the home’s ‘100 percent total replacement value.’ Instead of covering the $242,900 mortgage, it would now cover the home’s $304,866 replacement value. ‘It’s extortion,’ he said, noting his insurance agent said if he didn’t renew the rewritten policy ‘the bank can foreclose on me’ because he wouldn’t have insurance. ‘ We don’t insure mortgages, we insure houses,’ said Dave Dignam at Englewood’s Key Agency.’

‘Allstate Floridian Insurance Co. said Thursday evening that it would not be renewing another 106,000 policies starting on April 15, further reducing its homeowner insurance business in the state. Almost 30 percent of the cuts will be in Palm Beach, Miami-Dade and Broward counties.’

Comment by WArenter
2007-01-05 06:17:00

Lots here to comment on, but what sticks out for me is this Norm Finn guy. The wife had the orginal $40k mtg on the house paid off 10 years ago and now there is a mtg for $242K. What are people doing? A quarter of a million dollars of debt is a LOT of money.

Comment by eastcoaster
2007-01-05 06:21:10

You and I were thinking the same thing at the same time.

 
Comment by ruth doyle
2007-01-05 12:35:20

He looted her for $242k. Now he’s complaining like he’s the victim.

 
 
Comment by eastcoaster
2007-01-05 06:20:06

More than a decade ago, the home’s $40,000 mortgage was paid off. In ensuing years, it has been refinanced. Finn has a $242,900 mortgage through Bank of America.

Ok, I know the point of the above was more about insurance, but this just blows my mind. If I had a home paid off free and clear, why on earth would I refinance into a new mortgage? The ONLY exceptions for me would be MAYBE to pay for college for my son or if a major healthcare expense arose. How stupid can people be with money?…

Comment by jtcc
2007-01-05 06:47:46

Pt Barnum was right

Comment by Marc Authier
2007-01-05 07:38:40

Yes he was. Barnum at least the honesty to say it as it is. Regrettably nobody in politics or corporate america would have to call its electors, its employees or its shareholders, suckers.

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Comment by MacAttack
2007-01-05 08:19:49

True. Someone was terminated where I work, mainly due to politics. The e-mail that was issued to announce this never had the word “I” used in it - e.g. ” I made the decision to terminate this person.” Instead, the decision appeared to fall from the sky.
Needless to say, I immediately lost respect for that “decision-maker”. Right up there with, “The Company experienced a reduction in force,” as though some weird object hovered over the building and caused a brownout.

 
Comment by GotRocks
2007-01-05 16:23:13

“ ‘The Company experienced a reduction in force,’ as though some weird object hovered over the building and caused a brownout.”

Kind of like going through a divorce. You go through a blizzard - you have (or had) a divorce.

 
Comment by ronin
2007-01-06 03:11:30

Use of the passive voice covers up a lot of backroom plotting. In fact, whenever I hear the passive voice in a corporate communique, I reach for my

 
 
 
Comment by dba
2007-01-05 06:54:21

if you go to fatwallet, a lot of people there say it’s like a cheap insurance policy. You mortgage your home as much as you can and keep the cash in the bank earning interest. The interest you pay is tax deductible.

if you get sued they can’t take your house from you because the bank has first lien.

Comment by bk
2007-01-05 07:01:08

But the interest you earn on the money in the bank is taxable income, so there really is no benefit to doing this. Unless you have a fixed mortgage and you believe rates are going to rise. I considered doing this when I refied a few years back at 4.4% fixed. Wish I would have.

Also, if it’s your house they can’t take, wouldn’t you want to keep your equity there, rather than in a bank account, which they can take?

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Comment by dba
2007-01-05 07:08:28

i forgot the details but it’s not really for money making. say you are a doctor or an owned of some business. you can organize an LLC or a corporation to shield yourself but that is a large tax expense and it’s possible to penetrate it.

or you can mortgage out your home and hide the money by giving it to your child or something like that. or maybe a spouse. a lawyer can say for sure. you get sued past your insurance limit and they can’t take the home if your state allows it.

 
 
Comment by tl
2007-01-05 07:03:25

That’s a decent strategy IF you don’t spend the money you now have at your disposal. Considering that the source of your post is “fatwallet”, I doubt that most people just leave all that money sitting in a savings account.

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Comment by tl
2007-01-05 07:07:33

Actually, I take it back. It’s really not much of a “lawsuit insurance” idea.

OK, if you get sued and have a bunch of cash in a savings account, you won’t lose your home immediately. But you will lose all of that money in your savings account — while still having all that debt on your house. And since you were making the mortgage payments by spending the interest gained on your savings account, you will no longer be able to afford your mortgage. So you lose the house anyway.

 
Comment by dba
2007-01-05 07:19:35

there are trusts and other legal vehicles you can make up to hide cash. or just send it to the cayman islands

 
Comment by jtcc
2007-01-05 07:24:17

In florida where this moron lives they can’t take your house anyway. Thats why OJ moved here before the civil suit. The bank however can take your house if you dont pay.

 
Comment by Kathy
2007-01-05 11:52:18

In Illinois we have “Tenancy by the Entireties” where the family home is protected against foreclosure by judgment lienholders. It is only for married couples and for the primary residence, but it protects you from having your house sold if you ever get sued and lose. The creditor can attach the proceeds of a sale, though.

 
Comment by AndyInJersey
2007-01-05 12:09:36

Another good reason to own gold. Ok, find it. I’m broke, see. Nothing in the bank account. All the gold I had I took on a fishing trip with me and accidentally dropped it in the water 60 miles offshore in 300 feet of water.

 
Comment by ruth doyle
2007-01-05 12:39:50

Yep. Use the cash fiat funny money to buy gold bullion. Off the books.

 
Comment by Marc Authier
2007-01-05 12:52:02

Real good idea Ruth. But silver is even more interesting.

 
Comment by ruth doyle
2007-01-05 12:57:17

Silver works.

 
 
Comment by ronin
2007-01-06 03:12:23

But the interest they receive from the bank is taxed

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Comment by Chip
2007-01-05 15:59:04

“In ensuing years, it has been refinanced.”

In a society of victims, passive is increasingly replacing active: “its has been” refinanced”

Instead of the correct: “He/she/they refinanced it.” This latter places responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the borrowers, whereas the former tries to make it look like an event that, gosh, just happened to them, perhaps when they weren’t looking.

 
 
 
Comment by packman
2007-01-05 06:06:55

Funny the article from Bradenton was included - I just posted a link in the bits bucket about the Seven Shores project on Perico Island next to Bradenton - of the 686 condo units planned, only 9 sold the first year.

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/business/16302409.htm

Comment by OutofSanDiego
2007-01-05 06:41:59

“The lower prices resulted from a dip in construction materials in November, when bids went out to contractors, they maintain.” Boy, that’s nice of the developer to pass the savings on to the customer, vice keeping more profit for themselves as they have been doing for the last 3 years. What great guys!

 
 
Comment by truthout
2007-01-05 06:08:16

Please go to here http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/04/earlyshow/living/money/main2330484.shtml

a so called “estate expert” says home prices will be “steady” in 2007. CBS allows us to post there so let’s show this d#ckhead who advises buyers not to do low ball offers . WTF. Can they be this low?

Comment by phillygal
2007-01-05 08:47:58

“I think buyers really perceived in 2006 they were gonna be driving the market, which was so contrary to the previous years,” Nash said to Chen. “They’re like, ‘Oh, yeah, we finally have some power,’ and sellers, if their home was priced right, they knew it, and they had recent comparables from the last six months. So, you bring in a low-ball offer on a priced-right home, and sellers are going to say, ‘No, thank you.’ You might alienate them.”

“If their home was priced right, they knew it”…sure, it would have sold in less than 14 days…that’s how they would know if the home was priced right. I wonder what the national average DOM is at this point.

Actually I agree with the idea that buyers shouldn’t lowball right now…but for different reasons than the snake-oil salesman suggests. Sellers (in my area, anyway) haven’t been softened up enough. Unless a seller is in a pinch, they’re going to diddle around and wait for 3% less than asking.

Lowball season will start Sep 2007.

Comment by jag
2007-01-05 09:17:41

Go ahead and make a low ball offer now. Sure, it won’t be accepted but when the seller waits…oh, a month or two with NO OTHER OFFERS that “low ball” will get a call back.

Of course, when you get called back you’re original offer is now too high, counter EVEN LOWER. Continue this process until you’re back to 1999 pricing.

 
Comment by Grant
2007-01-05 13:04:03

And who gives a rat’s ass if you “alienate” a seller. What does that even mean? The seller isn’t going to sell to you in the future because you’ve “alienated” him/her. What a load of crap.

 
 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-01-05 06:10:34

“Brody said it isn’t just the banning of signs that is holding back the sale of his house. Priced at a point where he won’t make a profit on the home, he still can’t compete with the discounts of the developer. ‘Several people who looked at my house in the last couple months have bought new houses because they’re giving them away,’ Brody said.”

A used-home seller cannot compete with the discounts offered by the developer — especially when the developer cleverly gets the new owner (or maybe the lender) to pay for the discounts up front with a portion of the mortgage loan proceeds. This is sure a familiar-sounding scenario — I wonder how many thousands of used home sellers across the US face the same problem at this point in time?

Comment by OutofSanDiego
2007-01-05 06:36:19

“Priced at a point where he won’t make a profit on the home, he still can’t compete with the discounts of the developer.” Boo Hoo, Mr. Brody. I’m not a genius, but this was SOooo easy to forsee years ago. Why haven’t there been any prudent buyers in the last few years. When I bought my house in 1999 making a future profit did not figure into my decision making. I bought it to live in. In the back of my mind I hoped that I would be there at least long enough (3-5 years) to break even in case I had a job transfer and needed to sell. If you buy a house to LIVE in, then plan on staying in it for a while or pay the price. If you buy a house as an INVESTMENT, then be ready to pay the price if your risk vs. reward investment decision goes south. There is no guarantee in any type of investment. AHHHHGGGG, this drives me crazy…why do people feel they are entitled to profit for doing nothing?????

Comment by ruth doyle
2007-01-05 12:56:37

Buy a house to live in it?
Now there’s a novel idea.

 
 
Comment by Notorious D.A.P.
2007-01-05 06:48:13

Excellent points GS. Unless you have been a homeowner for awhile and have true equity (downpayment+principal payments) versus the phantom equity (speculative appreciation) you could be in trouble. The homebuilders are going to keep building, it is what they do. If they stop, they will go bankrupt. What the builders are doing is taking the massive land write downs now. This allows them get the “overvalued land” off the books and lowers their cost basis. They can now build on the older “cheaper land”. They can then lower the prices of the homes they build in order to compete with the small pool of buyers that are out there. This makes them quite competitive with used-home sellers as well. The homebuilders have some wiggle room, those that grossly over paid in 2004 and 2005 have no wiggle room. The homebuilders should still have a profit margin, although it should be smaller than during the heyday. Used-home sellers and flippers will be learning expensive lessons. The ability of the homebuilders to drop prices to clear inventory or make new sales is going to murder many used-home sellers and all of the flippers. They are going to bankrupt the very people that made their profits swell during the bubble. Poetic justice.

Comment by DinOR
2007-01-05 07:06:10

Notorious D.A.P,

Good points. Oh and don’t forget, building materials have been in a free fall for months which gives them a little more “wiggle room” too! Anyone that is even half serious about making an offer on a new home would do well to keep that in mind as well! (Not that anyone here is).

 
 
Comment by twib
2007-01-05 07:17:57

We should ask Brody should the developer complain to the press if homeowners are selling used homes in the neighborhood for less than what the developer can sell new ones. Sorry Brody, comps are a two way street. But you can stick it to the developer by selling yours for 50% of what they are asking.

 
Comment by Steve in Flyover Land
2007-01-05 07:28:04

If people can buy a new home for less than Mr. Brody’s “priced so low he won’t even make a profit(!?)” then I don’t think the sign is really the problem…

 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-01-05 07:34:50

What’s more, it reads like buyers into the development are using Brody’s home as a model. They just want to see what the home looks like before making a purchase from the developer.

 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-01-05 07:40:43

‘Several people who looked at my house in the last couple months have bought new houses because they’re giving them away,’ Brody said.”

Sorry Mr. Brody but if their “giving them away” I don’t think anybody will be interested in buying your house. In a market of like products, almost commodities really, the low cost producer always wins and you are not the low cost producer.

Which way to the free cheese err I mean house line?

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2007-01-05 06:29:10

Dear Mr. Brody,

We thank you for application for employment at our firm. While your job history and accomplishments are impressive we regret to inform you that we have hired equity locusts such as yourself in the past only to have them leave “cash out” and move to “the new hot market” after considerable training and expense. We’d love to bail you out by giving you the perfect excuse to get a nice new home in a hot new market so you could become yet another Sob Story of the Week in a national publication where you bought your new home (without having sold previous home) while your credit was still intact but respectfully decline. You bought it, you live with it. Many thanks,

Morrison B. Tuddworthy

Your Salvation Enterprises

Comment by Housing Wizard
2007-01-05 08:45:30

These speculators like Mr. Brody were taking up new homes that real end-users would of liked to have .The builders knew they were selling to investors and they would of continued to do so had the market not changed .In fact I believe that alot of condo /new home tracts projects were marketed to the locust .

Now its risky to buy in a new home tract that the builders have standing inventory or more homes to build in because of the discounts and funny money lending . The people that are getting the discounts today got to be worried about future discounts from the builder . So, my point is that until the market is stable and the forclosures and discounts have stopped, any buyer is at risk .
Also ,in future phases the builder might downgrade the quality or give smaller lots also so beware of builders . Also , I believe that builders are some of the biggest users of sub-prime lenders, so what will the foreclosure rates be like in that they are getting anyone that moves into these tracts .

 
Comment by az_lender
2007-01-05 09:13:54

Dear Mr. (Dr.?) Mark Kistler:

When we hired you to be an assistant professor of economics here at North Carolina State University, we were impressed with your success as an instructor at the University of Florida. We have recently learned that you bought your home in Raleigh without first selling your residence in Gainesville. All we can say is: F! F! F! F! F! As you know, your contract allows immediate termination “for cause.” In this case, the cause is, you obviously know nothing at all about your field.

With Love,

Ms. Munny Chair, Econ. Dept. Head, NCSU

[okay, I admit I looked him up, and it seems his specialty is actually "instructional technology" - he used to be the star of a PBS show called "Imagination Workshop" - apparently he's an artist, so is entitled by tradition to wind up in the poorhouse]

Comment by az_lender
2007-01-05 09:24:03

(failed to see whole conversation about him below, before I wrote this)

 
 
 
Comment by dba
2007-01-05 06:57:55

“Working with various partners, Hickernell has acquired vacation rental, motel and hotel properties on several barrier islands. He has gutted and renovated most of them with the idea of selling the units as small slices of paradise. Say 702 square feet for $653,900.”

now who is insane enough to buy this?

Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-01-05 07:20:34

Especially when Mr. Hickernell admits he is more than happy to rent the units for about $100 a night or so.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2007-01-05 07:20:38

Especially when he has to discount down under $100/night. What would the interest payment be on $650k?

I remember in 2005, several posters here were lamenting the condo rush into the mom and pop motels that made vacations in Florida affordable. Looks like they’ll be back but with granite counter tops.

Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-01-05 07:29:40

Don’t forget insurance and property taxes.

I doubt these condo’s go over 70% occupancy on a year round basis so you only have about $25,500 of gross revenue (365x.70x$100) to play with maximum. This is a Florida sink hole! Hurry up and get your sinkhole while supplies last!

Comment by SFC
2007-01-05 08:08:18

The rental management company would probably get 1/3 of the $100, so they’d only clear about $16K. Mortgage $650K at 6.25% is $48K a year. Taxes would be about $14K, insurance and maintenance fees another $10K, so that’s $72K/year. Figure tax deductions to get that down to $55K. They’re losing $39,000 per year. If they used the place the remaining 30% of the time when it’s not rented (365 x .3) = 110 days. $39,000/110 = $355 per day. So they’re paying 3.5 times as much as a renter.

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Comment by jtcc
2007-01-05 10:50:06

This is like going to a timeshare presentation and saying I’ll take all 52 weeks please.

 
Comment by Graspeer
2007-01-05 14:36:46

“This is like going to a timeshare presentation and saying I’ll take all 52 weeks please. “

That is what I thought when I first heard about Condo/Hotels. You put up all the cash and take all the risk while the management company gets to skim off as much money as they want.

 
 
 
Comment by Michael Fink
2007-01-05 07:36:31

Ugh… 100/night * 365 days/year =

36,500 dollars to live there for the entire year.

36K/12 = 3K/month

That’s less then 1/2 the cost of owning, and it’s a SHORT TERM rental. I am sure it also comes with maid service and all the other hotel nicties (including no utility bills, no repair bills, and guess what, you can move to another hotel tommorow if you feel like it with….yes, you got it, about 2 hours of notice.)

I don’t feel like running all the numbers (because, frankly, you would have to be a total idiot to even consider this), but a 600K morgage with 6% amortizes at around 3500/mo (42K/yr).

Could anyone really, truly, be this stupid?

Comment by Notorious D.A.P.
2007-01-05 08:05:46

Yes, people are really this stupid. We can talk all about it at the Blue Martini. Holler at me if you want to meet up Saturday night.

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Comment by az_lender
2007-01-05 09:20:26

Yes. I have a “vacation rental” starting next weekend for 1 month. The price is $1400/mo. The purchase price (if it were offered for sale) would be at least $400K based on comps. “Could anyone really, truly, be this stupid?” Maybe I’ll change that “yes” to a “no” since none of the “comps” are actually selling.

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Comment by climber
2007-01-05 08:51:42

I don’t want granite counter tops, and I really liked those nice folks who used to own the mom & pops. I’d really rather not rent from an underwater FB or the vulture who’s going to buy it out of BK and try to milk everyone who steps foot on the property.

The folks who used to own these somewhat shabby places were really nice, they’d help out with a baby crib or a cot and extra pillows for the kids. It’s anyone’s guess how family friendly they’ll be after the fallout of the recent maina. It’s never as good after the bubble as it was before, the captial tends to consolidate after a bubble, and the new owners are usually far less friendly (if you can even find them).

 
 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2007-01-05 07:53:57

Those numbers got my attention, too.
Totally ridiculous!
Do the math, it’s a total loss of money, and No, you won’t get $200/night to break even on the mortgage payment. At 6%, with no down, the mortgage payments alone would be about 40,000 per year. If you got $200/ night for 200 nights, you could pay the interest. For 700 s.f?? No way!
But that doesn’t cover principal/taxes/insurance and MGT. FEES/ Operating costs. This is a HOTEL. Week-end rentals require the room clean/ linens changed.
And note, also, this is a ground floor building on a barrier island. The insurance alone will probaby exceed 2% of the price.
This place is a BLACK HOLE.

Comment by AndyInJersey
2007-01-05 12:15:54

It’s not about the P/E, it’s about the stock price going up because of people bidding on it. Suzanne researched it. She probably also researched dotcom too, so she knows what she’s talking about.

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-01-05 07:59:34

Hickernell added, “… All those renters are potential buyers….”

This remark is completely nauseating.

Comment by mad_tiger
2007-01-05 09:20:02

‘All those renters are potential buyers,’ he said.”

How could a bunch of “loser” renters all aspire to be buyers?

 
Comment by az_lender
2007-01-05 09:22:24

All those renters are potential buyers, unless they can do arithmetic.

 
 
 
Comment by Cocoa Beach
2007-01-05 06:58:51

It’s amazing that people gladly lose tens of thousands of dollars when they trade cars but cannot stomach the thought of losing a dime on a house.

2007-01-05 08:12:28

God pays people to own property. Cars are the work of the devil.

 
 
Comment by the_economist
2007-01-05 07:09:04

“Mark Kistler, an assistant professor at North Carolina State University, bought a home in July in the first Stewart-affiliated community. He still hasn’t sold his other home in Gainsville.

Soooo…He now has an over priced home in Carey that he bought at the peak and he has another home in Fl. that is losing equity…Do
you even think he knows what is happening, or is he completely blind to the housing bust?

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-01-05 07:17:26

Right, he’s carrying two houses but thinks one market is stronger, partly because of Martha Stewart! Way to go professor……

Comment by AndyInJersey
2007-01-05 12:17:55

That’s like greenspasm thinking that the stock market made sense because the Internet was driving it. Now Martha Stewart is driving it all. Makes sense to me. lol

 
 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-01-05 07:36:41

I wonder what kind of degree Mr. Kistler obained? I see he was referred to as both a professor and as an instructor in the article. Maybe he has a Phd in aerobics.

Comment by Notorious D.A.P.
2007-01-05 08:07:08

Probably a PhD in underwater basket weaving.

Comment by Bad Chile
2007-01-05 08:23:20

Dr. Mark Kistler

Education
Ph.D. in Agricultural Education, Texas A&M University, 2002
Dissertation: The Texas A&M Ranch to Rail Program: An Evaluation of its Impact on Adult Learning

Master of Agriculture, Animal Science, University of Florida, 1993

B.S. in Agriculture, Animal Science, University of Florida, 1987

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Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-01-05 08:56:00

Well that explains it. The guys an Aggie!

 
 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-01-05 07:55:04

In addition, “he said Stewart’s name did play a role in his family’s decision.”

Too bad she is not a professional chef but is very good at pretending to be one. It’s fitting I think — faux housing demand stimulated by a charlatan and consumed by culturally inept faux know it alls. Kistler probably could not tell prime rib from top round but boy does he want to be a part of the faux gourmet kitchen crowd. There must be some kind of mentally debilitating virus in the air. Smart people are behaving stupidly.

Comment by jtcc
2007-01-05 10:45:02

Like she is gonna ride through the neighboorhood once a week on a bicycle with a basket full of caramel apples for the kids.

 
 
Comment by JBR_east_bay
2007-01-05 07:56:46

“Martha Stewart-inspired development ” ? Does this mean the houses have bars on the windows?

Comment by phillygal
2007-01-05 08:53:02

Yes, stainless steel of course, and the “Alderson” model comes equipped with a matron to tuck you in at night.

Naturally, the matron’s dentures are composed of Travertine Marble.

 
 
Comment by climber
2007-01-05 08:41:43

You wouldn’t believe the number of CA equity locusts in Cary NC. It’s also a very nice community for people with young kids, most of the existing housing stock is modestly priced and on nice sized lots. It’s the new developments in the RTC area that are being built just to suck up money. We had wealthy friends from CA who bought a $1M house in Cary. We lived a few miles out of town and bought a nice house for $135k. If you overspend in NC it’s your own fault, but at least you get a lot of house/land for your money there.

And eductaion has not a lot to do with it. I have an EE and i’ve been taken in real esate deals twice now. I actually believed that most Realtors (TM) were honest. I had no idea the level of dishonesty in the real estate/ mortgage broker profession. A professor expects his students to check his references, an engineer knows the math behind his work is easily duplicated. Apparently Realtors/Mortgage brokers thinkt that somehow they’ll never be found out.

I fell for the “it’s going to be a school” - it was really Phase III and already platted zoned and approved.
I fell for the “there are other offers pending” -
I had a mortgage broker take all my paperwork with him when he quit his job (including the original copy of my VA loan cert.).

The profession is rampant with corruption, liars and horrible advise. Most people are just not prepared to deal with such outright graft. Even going to the DMV office is more pleasant than buying a house. At least the people there just don’t care about you. In real estate they’re all looking for a pound of your flesh - may as well go swimming in the Amazon.

 
 
Comment by Tom
2007-01-05 07:20:51

Is it a huge conflict of interest that the builder he is competing with is also in charge of the homeowners association and is telling him to take down his for sale sign? I smell lawsuit.

I’ll just sit back and watch as everyone blames everyone and sues everyone while prices plummet. I’ll be there to pick up the pieces at distressed prices.

2007-01-05 08:16:24

What is this “conflict of interest” you speak of? Is it a conflict that I get my economic advice from an agency representing commissioned based sales agents? Is it a conflict that my “friend” the buyers agent has no incentives to get me a lower price? Is it a conflict that if I don’t use the appraiser and mortgage writer the builder offers, I won’t get the “deal” ? I don’t know what you speak of.

Comment by AndyInJersey
2007-01-05 12:24:22

He’s saying the builders are essentialy telling this guy he can’t advertize his house for sale the way he wants because they’re busy trying to advertize the same houses for sale. It’d be like two neighbors with a house for sale and the other neighbor saying the other guy has to take down his for sale sign because he’s busy trying to sell his house. “Christ, the nerve of this guy trying to sell his house. WTF is wrong with him, can’t he see I’m trying to sell mine over here.”

 
Comment by Tom
2007-01-05 22:06:22

Do your reesearch Suzanne.

 
 
Comment by John Law
2007-01-05 10:25:07

by this time I’m sure the builders have had some CYA provisions in the contract for years. they can probably do just about anything, including getting rid of for sale signs. doesn’t matter, most homes probably all look the same anyways.

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2007-01-05 08:00:30

‘the small For Sale sign he had in his yard is no longer allowed’

might help explain why the market appears to be ‘improving’ to the naked eye.

Comment by climber
2007-01-05 08:32:20

I wonder what the “Model” houses set up by the builder look like, though. They usually have streamers, flags, baloons etc, but an owner can’t put up a small yard sign?
This guy may have some luck pressing the issue with his local representatives. Cities and States can override HOA rules.

In Colorado we’ve been in a bad drought for years, finally the state made a rule that HOAs can’t require people to water keep their Blue Grass yards green in the middle of August anymore. It can take up to 4″ of water per week to keep bluegrass green in 100 degree heat.

Comment by Vermonter
2007-01-05 09:12:38

That’s a step in the right direction, waterwise. If grass didn’t grow in VT by itelf, I’d put rocks. No mowing.

In discussing the water situation out there once, my CO-native MIL was clearly disturbed when I introduced the idea that the front range of CO is a desert. I don’t think it had occurred to her that much of the US does not have to water regularly to prevent the grass from turning to brown ash.

There is a reason that so many western town/cities end in the name “Springs”. *sigh*

Comment by palmetto
2007-01-05 09:26:54

“There is a reason that so many western town/cities end in the name “Springs”. *sigh*”

I love that “Springs” business, especially when there’s not a drop of water in sight except for maybe a sewage ditch or retention pond. Gawdalmighty. Believe it or not, Miami Springs used to actually have some springs in the area, but they dried up.

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Comment by jim A
2007-01-05 11:50:26

My motto when we have the occasional dry spell in Maryland: “brown grass don’t need mowin’.” Of course I don’t have a HOA so them’s as unhappy with my yard work can KMA so long as I keep it under 12″.

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Comment by pressboardbox
2007-01-05 08:03:09

I hope Martha Stewart goes to jail again. This time for shameless promotion of the great real estate debacle.

Comment by phillygal
2007-01-05 08:16:10

“The first Martha Stewart-inspired development in Florida
OK, this is too easy…

what would a Martha Stewart house look like…the BIG HOUSE..????

 
 
Comment by johndicht
2007-01-05 08:33:28

The trap of the ownership society.

Ownership society — this makes me laugh. Yes, the bank owns you as its debt slave.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2007-01-05 09:02:22

I don’t know how much these “Stars’ get to endorse a tract ,but if KB is building the project, Martha didn’t go for a quality upscale builder .
it’s just like the Donald Trump projects that he just endorses but doesn’t really own .Anybody that buys in a project because of a public figure name is stupid . Now buying in a project because it’s a known quality builder , that’s another story .

 
Comment by zeropointzero
2007-01-05 09:15:16

Condo hotels are such a scam. Someone should put together a financial analysis of a bunch of them in Vegas, Florida and elsewhere ….. including vacancy rates and management fees — I am sure you won’t find one that works as an investment. What a great scam !!!! Run a hotel, collect management fees, have individual investors CAPITALIZE YOU AT THEIR LOSS instead of actually paying interest to a stuffy old bank and paying interest and assuming some risk yourself. That’s so 20th century.

Like all the best scams — it’s so ugly, it’s beautiful. Or maybe it’s the other way around.

Comment by Tom
2007-01-05 22:07:31

Just more stories build on cards. When the all ponzi scheme collapses, so will it.

 
 
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