“A Clear Signal Florida’s Housing Market Is Weakening”
The News Press reports from Florida. “WCI Communities Inc. announced this morning it expects to record a loss in the fourth quarter due largely to increased contract cancelations. The Bonita Springs-based luxury expected to close 621 traditional homes in the fourth quarter and actually closed 434 at an average price of approximately $760,000 while recording 187 defaults.”
“Preliminary combined tower and traditional gross new orders totaled 261 for the fourth quarter but were offset by a combined total of 270 tower defaults and traditional home cancellations and defaults.”
“‘Results for the fourth quarter will be below prior expectations due to a higher level of defaults…and the recording of significant impairments and write-offs,’ CEO Jerry Starkey said. ‘The operating environment in Florida continued to be challenging during the fourth quarter and resulted in cancellations outnumbering new orders in that market.’”
The Miami Herald. “In a clear signal that Florida’s housing market is weakening, BankUnited Financial on Monday reported a significant spike in problem loans.”
“Nonperforming assets more than doubled to $45.1 million for the December quarter from the prior quarter and more than quadrupled from a year earlier, said the Coral Gables-based parent of BankUnited FSB, the largest Florida thrift.”
“In a report to clients, Raymond James & Associates analyst John A. Pandtle said while he has long regarded option-ARM loans to be risky ‘in a rising interest rates and an overheated housing market, the magnitude of this quarter’s asset quality deterioration is surprising even to us.’”
“The rise in troubled loans also reflects the longer time needed to find buyers for foreclosed properties with so many houses on the market, CEO Ramiro Ortiz said.”
“The bank said option-ARM loans amounted to 59 percent of its total loan portfolio at the end of last year, up from 51 percent a year earlier. As of Dec. 31, the portfolio of $7 billion option-ARM balances had negative amortization, in which mortgage balances increase over time, of $129.7 million, or 1.9 percent.”
The St Petersburg Times. “Construction Compliance Inc. promised surefire investment homes with no money down. St. Petersburg’s CCI would build houses on scattered lots from Hernando to Lee counties. Customers could resell them for a profit without spending a dime.”
“Not only has CCI ceased construction on scores of homes, but customers also have been left with half-built shells on which subcontractors are demanding payment.”
“Bradenton’s Coast Financial Holdings Inc., parent of Coast Bank, fretted whether the builder’s customers, to which Coast committed $110-million, would ’satisfy their obligations.’”
“Marilyn Schwegman of St. Petersburg is a CCI customer left on the hook for her builder’s unfinished work. A Realtor acquaintance put her in touch with CCI in 2005. The company would build her a 2,000-square-foot house in Sarasota County’s North Port community.”
“‘Real estate was good. It was going to be a nice little investment turnaround,’ Schwegman said.”
“To Schwegman’s alarm, certified letters arrived at her house late last year. They were from the company that laid her foundation and a concrete block vendor. She owes them close to $30,000. Turns out CCI wasn’t paying the bills, and the subcontractors came after her.”
“‘I don’t know what my options are,’ said Schwegman, who turned her home contract over to a lawyer. ‘I’m hoping for a loophole. I’m hoping to pull something from the sky on that one.’”
“If CCI collapses, individual borrowers have an obligation to meet their mortgage payments, though Coast suggested that some might default in light of the no-money-down deals they were promised.”
“Buyers like Schwegman are kicking themselves. It all seemed so simple when Coast fast-tracked her loan with scarcely a question. ‘The qualifications were almost a joke. I was surprised at the time it was so easy,’ she said.”
The Bradenton Herald. “Coast Bank officials are investigating the status of 482 home loans in jeopardy after a local developer said the company can’t finish construction. Possibly losing $50 million in residential loans could mean serious trouble for Coast Bank, an analyst said.”
“James Schutz, an analyst with Stern, Agee & Leach, Inc., said the loans, if the bank defaults on them, could be devastating for a financial institution the size of Coast Bank. Much will depend on the progress that has been made on the homes, Schutz said.”
“Although Coast Bank officials Monday declined to name the developer involved, all signs point to St. Petersburg-based home developer Construction Compliance, Inc., which has had dozens of liens filed against it in recent weeks.”
“Joel Deriso, owner of the Other Side Sod Co. in Arcadia, said he filed more than a dozen liens against the home-builder and is owed more than $28,000 for work he did in Charlotte County and North Port.”
“‘They have nearly 100 houses down in Rotonda Sands and nearly the same number in North Port and every single home is Coast Bank-financing,’ Deriso said. ‘Every single notice of commencement I’ve looked at is Coast Bank of Florida with the common denominator, CCI homes.’”
“In the meantime, local builders were astounded by the amount of money Coast Bank committed to the 482 borrowers. ‘It’s big. I’ve never heard of anything happening like that,’ said Alan Zirkelbach, a local developer who serves on the board of First Priority Bank. ‘That’s a very large developer when you’ve got 482 homes.’”
The Herald Tribune. “Dozens of investors who bought homes from Construction Compliance Inc. of St. Petersburg and who had their loans financed by Bradenton-based Coast Bank are scrambling to hire lawyers to see whether they can recoup their money.”
“The investors say they were lured into buying Southwest Florida houses by CCI and were forced to take mortgages from Coast Bank in order to complete the transactions.”
“(Attorney) Peter Vasti has been retained by William DeNight and Peter Chicouris, two Realtors in St. Petersburg. DeNight, who also bought a house from CCI as an investor, said he was ‘forced to go with Coast Bank’ despite having an existing credit line and relationship with Wachovia Bank.”
“His Coast line of credit had $80,000 drawn down against it, and ‘all I have is a cleared lot,’ DeNight said.”
“New Jersey resident George Tannous said that he and several friends and family members each agreed to put down $2,500 to $7,500 in what they thought would be a passive investment.”
“Each investor ‘very quickly had a credit line established at Coast Bank amounting to as much as $300,000 each,’ Tannous said. The group was introduced to the CCI deals by Seashore Resorts LLC, a Bluffton, S.C.-based real estate investment company that also has offices in the New York area.”
“Seashore principal Joseph N. Carletto said Monday that he and other Seashore executives also are victims. Carletto bought a home in Cape Coral from CCI, he said.”
“‘As with most investors involved in this situation, we at Seashore Resorts are similarly troubled. The six principal owners of Seashore along with our family and close friends are deeply invested in Florida through Coast Bank,’ Seashore Resorts officials said in a letter sent on Monday to the Herald-Tribune. The letter said that ‘each of the principal owners of Seashore have homes titled personally in their own names.’”
“‘We’ve all been hit by liens,’ said Darren E. Sheehan, a Seashore executive and New York attorney who bought a North Port home from CCI.”
“But Joanne Inglese, a New Jersey investor also brought into the deal by Seashore, said that the company ‘was broker in the deal.’ Tannous, the other New Jersey investor, agreed.”
“Inglese said the credit of the investors was used to finance the building of a house. Between the broker, the bank and the builder, the house was to have been financed, built and then sold at a profit as part of the investment package.”
“Inglese said she expected a 10 percent slice of the gross sales price or about $30,000 for the use of her credit. Instead she is facing about $70,000 in loans in her name, an untold number of liens.”
“Carol Simmons, now a broker and owner of St. Petersburg-based Quantum Realty Solutions, says she sold about 150 CCI homes to financial investors ‘all over, from California to New York to Florida,’ while working at Dollar Realty and Mortgage in Tampa. ‘All of them got their loans from Coast Bank.’”
Question for the board, could a lost/canceled deposit or negative equity after a sale be a “uninsured loss”? if so, federal tax collections could get hit pretty hard.
I’m not sure about real estate losses, but you are limited to $3,000 in stock losses if you are not a professional.
I don’t think the IRS shares in the losses on the sale of an individuals home!!
Unfortunately, the IRS doesn’t take the bad, only the good, with revenues attached to it
“Preliminary combined tower and traditional gross new orders totaled 261 for the fourth quarter but were offset by a combined total of 270 tower defaults and traditional home cancellations and defaults.”
If WCI is having this kind of problems, I wonder how many other condo tower developers in South Florida and Miami are going to be nearly vacant? We are talking 1,000 of residential units.
The fat lady is starting to sing, and its getting very loud.
But even with all this unexpected bad news the home builders are up this morning by 2% to 5%. The world is flat!
ya think
individual borrowers have an obligation to meet their mortgage payments, though Coast suggested that some might default in light of the no-money-down deals they were promised.”
Let’s see… subtract 270 from 261 and you get a negative 9 sales. Hard to put a positive spin on that!
Didn’t someone here mention that the cancellations don’t make it back to the inventory stats?
If anyone knows for sure, please correct me. (Also, which stats exactly: NAR or other?)
I recall reading that as well. Specifically that government numbers on new home sales are recorded when the contract is signed, but are not subtracted if the buyer defaults.
They are not subtracted and also not RE-ADDED when the house is sold again. This is the rationale behind the stat.
In Florida the fat lady is singing. But we’ve yet to have the full chorus of Vikings join in. Right now its only here and the junior Valkarie. Next the senior Valkarie join in and then all of the male actors representing the heroic dead.
Did I mention intermission is in ten minutes?
You see, this opera is in three parts and its a tragedy.
Got popcorn?
Neil
‘With my Spear and Magic Helmet!’
Tragedy or farce, call it. The coin’s still in the air.
popcorn is too noisy for all this drama; you can have that as you watch those crash and burn inventory stats following superbowl sunday. but for now, just stick with rollos or gummy bears or something
Jim Cramer said he would “BUY! WCI!!!” BOOO YAAAAH
I say Jim is an idiot.
“The bank said option-ARM loans amounted to 59 percent of its total loan portfolio at the end of last year, up from 51 percent a year earlier. As of Dec. 31, the portfolio of $7 billion option-ARM balances had negative amortization, in which mortgage balances increase over time, of $129.7 million, or 1.9 percent.”
Holy Sh*t! And so far only a small percentage of these has actually defaulted (45 mil/7 bil=6.4% ). I could see the number ending up over 30%. And with the banks exposure to these loans growing by $200 million each year through neg arm, bad times are ahead.
That’s what I thought. The chance of much higher defaults remains.
This Florida stuff sounds more like the S&L stuff everyday. All the ’shocked’ people involved, as deal after deal falls through, and everyone running to lawyers.
WOW! Who handles risk management at this bank - 59%???
no kidding, I predict terminations in most of the banks risk management divisions this year.
Not too mention that banks future legal bill when all of these “investors” go class action against anyone they can. I love watching people get bent over backwards when they are chasing easy/fast money, but a contruction company having all of it’s construction loans with a single bank that failed to conduct payout supervision smells rotten.
Donald Rumsfeld.
LMFAO!!!!
Michael “Heckuva Job” Brown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Brown
What risk? Real estate always ALWAYS goes up in a exponentially increasing line. There is no risk, it’s just clamour abroad for the great real estate get rich quick scheme.
Indeed. I guess the old rule of thumb still applies: If something sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.
These deals with CCI were pushed through so quickly, so easily, how could the buyers have not smelled something fishy? Too bad, so sad. No sympathy here.
I posted this on an earlier thread. Cramer on his stupid show was pushing WCI stock last week! He sounded like the WCI advertisements. He claimed Flroida real estate hit bottom months ago. He is such a slimeball!
Cramer did the that same failed “PIMP” show in 2000..
No. The slimeball has more class than that thing.
BOOOYAAAAAAA sell,sel,sell,sell,sell
There was news last week about Carl Icahn buying a large share of WCI. I guess even the big guys think they can catch a falling knife. WCI may have some book value left - but maybe not much after the bankruptcy that is soon to come (cash flow is king for developers.)
He’s NOT a “”SLIME BALL”"
He’s a “Prune Brain”"”
HHHAAAA LOL!! Gotcha LizzeBREATH
Takes one to know one. What nobody listening to your griping over at paradise lost???? By the way, I thought you called me dizzy, or was it something about my breath???? I believe it was another poster you called prune brain. Hopefully the folks over here ignore you here too! As my kids say “see ya, wouldn’t want to be ya”! I’m imagining a 300 lb. guy living in his trailer who can’t get out without the assistance of a crane!
Well!! I think we should come up with a name for you over here!!! How ’bout…LizardTongue….snapping peoples heads-off are we???
Are we supposed to feel sorry for the idiots burned by CCI??? If an investment sounds to good to be true, it probably is!!
In both posts this morning, the word ‘victim’ was used by the former or current debt-owners. MA and FL.
Yep, and they were “lured into buying” according to one of the greedy speculators turned victims.
“Inglese said she expected a 10 percent slice of the gross sales price or about $30,000 for the use of her credit.”
They said the average credit line pulled was 300,000. 10% return over what… 3 years to build and sell a house?
Now her credit is screwed.
Who needs to worry about someone stealing your identity! You can just hand it over to the crooks. Save you all the headaches and hassle.
One of the things that I find interesting here in FL is the tremendous disconnect between the forecasts from the builders vs the forecasts from the realtors. The builders continue to acknowledge rough water ahead, where the realtors constantly predict that Nirvana is just over the horizon. It seems like some reporters should notice that as well?
I was given an explanation recently that builders think in the short term, but over the long term RE is still a good investment.
Of course I think that’s BS.
True enough, but from my builder buddies ’short term’ is 3 years out. I don’t think the Starbucks/Beemer RE girls can even count that far out. Their long term is ‘the spring seling season’.
When times get tough everyone tells you to invest for the long term.The long term can mean overpay now but eventually things will recover.
I have another analogy for this:
There is a Monkey trap where natives place sweet meats inside a coconut shell, and tie the shell to the ground. The openning of the shell is big enough for a monkey to put his hand in, but not big enough for the monkey to pull out if he’s holding a fist full of treats.
Once the monkey realize it can’t pull its hand out, it freaks out and tries to run away but can’t because it refuses to let go of the meats. This continues right up to the point when the trapper comes a long with a club/machette to claim his catch.
The monkeys are mentally unable to release their prize even in the face of terminal peril.
I see a similar mentality in investing in the long term.
I’ve noticed that analogy myself. I call it “the monkeys holding onto their nuts” syndrome. We’ve got lots of monkeys holding onto their nuts these days.
So true…in Norva, I see sh+t boxes on the resale market listed higher than new homes that are 2 times larger, and 5 times nicer. Must take awhile to trickle down
Realtors are not experts. They take a few classes, but most have no background in economics. Listening to a realtor for investment advice is like asking an Amway sales person how to get rich!
The only thing I ever felt a realtor was good for was to unlock the doors of houses for sale, give me the comps on local property as well as write the up the contract. In the age of computers, I can get the comps myself, call the listing agent and hire a lawyer to write up the contract for around $500.
I’ve said this before….
I live in northern Virginia, but I was vacationing in Sarasota last week when the Coast Bank/CCI story broke. My inlaws live there and I talked with them about the story and market conditions in general. They said they weren’t concerned about the market because (I kid you not) a realtor friend of theirs said the market is set to turnaround within six months.
That made me realize that some people find it easier to deal with things by keeping their heads buried in the sand. Oh well.
Classic story there about your inlaws. As lizziebeth so correctly pointed out, the majority of realtors know ZERO about economics. Their required training is pathetic at best. It is rare you will find one with a 4 year degree, let alone it being in business or econ. Honestly, what else do they do of value other than unlock and lock the door of homes for sale? I can see people wanting that service for reasons of security, but it sure isn’t worth 6%. It should be done flat fee, negotiated between client and realtor, where the client decides how much to advertise, etc. Then the seller can just pay for it. A realtor selling a $750K home gets ~$15K more than one selling a $500K home, and they don’t really do anything more. That makes zero sense.
What were they thinking when they made these loans - Oh I remember:
“South Florida,” he said, ”is working off of a totally new economic model than any of us have ever experienced in the past” according to a realtor who predicted that a land shortage will support higher prices indefinitely.”
- New York Times, Trading Places: Real Estate Instead of Dot-Coms, 3/25/05
BushyCONomy.
Blame the government loser!
Is it really necessary to make this forum a partisan party bashing site? I thought it was about housing. I’d say there is enough guilt to go around Washington and beyond.
And besides, as if French Canada is f-ing utopia? Please. France barely knows you exist.
Yeah! Stick to bashing realtors like the rest of us.
funny
Yeah, it’s not Bush’s fault that lowering interest rates to nothing would cause a housing bubble…who knew?
Republicans and Democrats are both at fault and they’re both complete idiots. So vote for someone else everyone!
Unfortunately, Republicans have been totally in control (having the White House, the Senate, and Congress as majorities) for the past SIX years and I think they do deserve more of the blame than anyone wants to give them. The ONLY congressman I’ve seen speak out about our loose money policies was Congressman Paul of Texas and I don’t know which party he is with. Democrats may have been there — but the Democrats had no power to do anything.
Congressman Paul of Texas is a Republican that is also a card-carrying member of the Libertarian Party. He’s the foremost libertarian (of the small L variety) in Congress.
Yes, Ron Paul deviates quite a bit from the party line. And while I am sure I don’t know all there is to know about the guy, he sure strikes me as a plain dealer who dispenses the tough truth that the feel good hyper-consumers of BOTH parties don’t want us to hear.
It’s not the governments fault that your a loser. People give the idiots in Washington way to much blame and credit. Save me the “innocent democrats” bs, its all a little to boring for me.
Crazy G, thinks we should “do away” with politcial parties, much the way George Washington saw it….
>>>WHY CAN’T WE ALL BE AMERICANS, AND AGREE/DISAGREE ON DIFFERENT PROPOSALS…
Crispy - keep that coming! I’m like a kid - laughing at that evertime I hear it! “…totally new economic model…” chuckle, chuckle, chuckle.
Ah, music to my ears…support higher prices indefinitely…indefinitely…indefinitely…
All of this FL crap is just the harbinger of the much bigger tsunami coming to wipe most of CA into the sea. Break out the popcorn and surf board. Going to be a great ride.
All of this FL crap is just the harbinger of the much bigger tsunami coming to wipe most of CA into the sea. Break out the popcorn and surf board. Going to be a great ride.
Dude, I am a little afraid , but stoked!
I wonder how many of these condo and new home tract projects were purchased by investment groups that had to go to the “special lenders “of the builder .
I think I have been bringing up this point lately about this builder/investor built projects .Again a scam .These investors expected limited liability but got all the liability .
The point is that this is a investment scheme to get bodies to use their names to satisfy the requirements for a big construction loan .
Apparently these flippers/speculators didn’t know that they had full liability on their purchase and the bank wasn’t even keeping tract of the construction loan pay-outs .
The fact that Banks and lenders loaned on pre-construction projects and didn’t think about how a high % were just quick buck flippers is more proof of projects just being built for the quick turn investor .
Vacant or half built projects everywhere . What do you think Donald Trump was trying to do when he put family and friends on his pre-construction units . Trump was trying to beef up the numbers to get the construction loan .
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but this is the way I see it .
Spot on wizard. Most banks won’t do 100% spec projects - require some % of presales to fund the construction loan. If those fall out or are bogus to begin with, the bank just got screwed. Due diligence could have ferreted out the BS, but that takes time and might kill a deal. There are a bunch of inexperienced/dumbass lenders out there that have never seen a down market. They drink the koolaid, make their numbers, collect huge fees, get nice bonuses - - all works out fine when markets keep heading up.
Now . . . it’s oh Shit, time to look for another job for a GF bank . . . and there are plenty out there.
“but that takes time and might kill a deal.”
It might kill the deal for one bank but I bet there was half a dozen other banks waiting in line.
That is the problem when financial standards drop, if you don’t do the deal then some other guy will and if you are in banking and you don’t do loans then you are out of business. Its especially bad now that most banks are owned by stock owners who only care about today’s stock price and this months dividend. If you don’t “hit the numbers” for this month then down goes your stock price and out the door you go. So they do the deal, they sell off the loans as bonds and the books look great, that is until the loans go south and the lawsuits start flying.
I think Florida will make the Texas S&L bust look like a non-event. This is much worse than I thought…
This will be much much worse that the S and l crisis. In that nightmare you had fairly sophisticated borrowers in the commercial field and most of the assets were income producing properties.
This is a hole in the ground and we don’t have the bodies to fill them.
Try TX will make the TX S&L bust look like a non-event. Same cast of characters as the last time (CA, FL, GA, AZ, TX)
Yes mam, same dumbass lenders too.
Famous last words?
In a conference call with analysts, BankUnited Chairman Alfred R. Camner said nonperforming assets could climb to about 0.6 to 0.8 percent of total assets before long. But he added: “We don’t look at losses to be significant.”
In a telephone interview, Ramiro Ortiz, president and chief executive, said, “I’m dumbfounded at the keen interest in our nonperforming assets. The real story is our strong earnings.”
Soon to be dumbfounded by interest in his retirement package.
“Seashore principal Joseph N. Carletto said Monday that he and other Seashore executives also are victims. Carletto bought a home in Cape Coral from CCI, he said.”
A victim of greed.
Good one! VOG’s! move over FB’s, the VOG’s are here to whine!
As in spot the VOG in the thread.
Help us out here??
VOG Verbal Orders of the Governor
VOG Vessel Off-Gas
VOG Video Oculography
VOG Voice of God
VOG Voice of Greece
VOG Volgograd, Russia - Volgograd (Airport Code
“Construction Compliance Inc. promised surefire investment homes with no money down.”
Willie Sutton might have been way off base. When asked why he robbed banks, he responded, “Because, that’s where the money is”.
Ask the officers of CCI where the money is and you’ll get a different answer. RE attracts the lowest hucksters and easy quick money chasers in the country, from RE agents (useless clerks), to loan brokers (sharks) to specuvestors. A cesspool.
DR Horton CEO saying in conference call that he sees no sign of housing market recovery and decline is in the early stages.
tx,
So, is this news better than expected? Why is DHI up over 7% today?
Please help me understand this.
Ask Cramer and he’ll say, “It’s already priced into the stock”. That’s what he said about CSCO when it dropped to $50 from $80 and there was a subsequent minor blip up. Knife catchers…
Plunge Protection Team at work.
The stock is up almost 7% on the good news that the decline is in the early stages as opposed to the later stages when D.R. Horton will be BK!
They’re trying to break these stocks out of an ascending triangle which might cause some short covering. Hell, they may have already for all I know.
DHI is back to its early May 2006 price. I can’t believe the HB’s can maintain their levitation much longer.
How about CFC? That bad boy was starting to teeter the last few days although it may have settled down.
As you know there is a high level of short selling in the builders. We are in a bear market advance from the summer lows. It is pushed by short covering, some foolish buyers, short term traders, and the Cramer’s of the world. The news media is made up of people seeking a rational explanation each day for the market action. They will often perversely reach for arguments to justify the rise. Some think this is a manipulation. In my experience it is just human nature at critical juctures in which the media justifies something that has already happened (a stock rise) with their slant on facts.
Short squeezes are typical of bear markets. They can run beyond logic due to the nervous nature of the short sellers. In a sense a short seller is like someone with a boil on his arm. When the market rises it is like someone pushing on the injured flesh. Shorts are often covered because of an aversion to pain not logic. In fact pain can distort logical thinking.
My sense is that you are short and feeling some pain. The key too trading is keeping your emotional level down. People will jump into trades reacting to the present emotion and fail to understand that circumstances can dictate different nd adverse emotions later distorting the strategy.
Thank you and tx chick (I think, will have to research the meaning of your comment) for the rational explanations. As I’ve only been following the market for a couple of years and sometimes I begin to look for that invisible hand (PPT?). I prefer the rational explanation for now.
““Carol Simmons, now a broker and owner of St. Petersburg-based Quantum Realty Solutions, says she sold about 150 CCI homes to financial investors ‘all over, from California to New York to Florida,’
Hey Carol - Sweet!! Commissions on 150 units!
“says she sold about 150 CCI homes to financial investors ‘all over, from California to New York to Florida,’ “
I wonder how many of those “investors” are now desperately trying to find a person who will actually buy or rent it to live in I? Owning a home makes no sense unless someone is going to use if for the purpose it was built, that is live in it. And if you can’t sell it or rent it the all you have is a big empty box that costs money every month.
“if you can’t sell it or rent it the all you have is a big empty box that costs money every month.”
Apparently, many people have not figured this out yet.
The company I work for does a lot of print work for WCI. I read all of their literature as it come through my department. I don’t see who they think can afford this stuff. Nothing under $300,000.00. I make a good wage for FL and there is no way my wife and I could afford what they offer. The places they are building have no jobs to support these prices. A local observation from Tampa. Prices have come down about 10-12 thousand in my neighborhood from the previous appraised value and they still aren’t selling. Two are under contract however. They were on the market for about 4 months.
The builders are getting ahead of the coming swarm. See, boomers are all lining up to come to FLA in a mass exodus from the NE & MW, once they cash in on their RE equity. Unfortunately, there’s a catch. If everyone moves away, who do they liquidate their existing homes to, to harvest all that equity.
As a Southerner, if I could live in some NE cities for cheap with everyone moving away, I’d do it. Not sure how many of “me” there are though.
There are enough of them. Watch and see. Your time is coming.
Is WCI I paid up on the work you are doing for them? Any problem with receivables? Might want to keep an eye on your collections as the money seems to be getting tighter and tighter with each passing quarter.
You’ve probably seen their marketing to splitters. Rich folks that can work from home and split time between two homes. One couple they had highlighted in an upscale magazine was from Knoxville. They had children and spent their winters in their WCI home in Naples and went home to Knoxville in the summer. Problem is, there aren’t as many rich working folks able to work from home and uproot their kids school year…… Not to mention, the number of rich folk that aren’t really rich. Just in debt up to their eyeballs. The gravy train has stopped!
An article in Vanity Fair that ran not too long ago described real estate brochures as “smiley airhead literature.” Buy here and you’ve arrived! You’ll become interesting! Your golf game will improve! You’ll have more sex! Your kids won’t be f____d up! You’ll be living the “Florida lifestyle”!
Prices in Tampa are so divorced from economic reality that realtors could spend a trillion dollars in their latest campaign without making an appreciable difference here. I continue to see building in the $500,000+ range. If 20% down payments still mattered, that would be one hundred large in an area where a lot of people have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck.
This entire post from Ben is the ugliest I have read in awhile. The next step is that people, already repulsed by prices, completely lose confidence in the process.
That Vanity Fair article nailed it. I am so appalled by real estate advertising. It is so damned cheesy. From the names of subdivisions, right down to their mailbox fliers, it is all so bad.
Buy here and you’ve arrived! That’s for sure; too bad they don’t tell you the destination is financial purgatory.
(“Each investor ‘very quickly had a credit line established at Coast Bank amounting to as much as $300,000 each,’ Tannous said. The group was introduced to the CCI deals by Seashore Resorts LLC, a Bluffton, S.C.-based real estate investment company that also has offices in the New York area.”
“Inglese said the credit of the investors was used to finance the building of a house. Between the broker, the bank and the builder, the house was to have been financed, built and then sold at a profit as part of the investment package.”
“Inglese said she expected a 10 percent slice of the gross sales price or about $30,000 for the use of her credit. Instead she is facing about $70,000 in loans in her name, an untold number of liens.”)
so these investors got lines of credit which the company used to build homes and now they’re screwed?
RealEstate Only goes up, Is there a problem in taking line of credit?
“‘Real estate was good. It was going to be a nice little investment turnaround,’ Schwegman said.”
I just despise the cavalier attitudes these fools had “nice little investment”
For many of us we are only trying to live the American dream of home ownership. I have scrimped and saved for the last five years for my future home,to watch with horror as my dreams drifted further and further away from my reach.
“The qualifications were almost a joke. I was surprised at the time it was so easy,’ she said.” It just goes to prove what kinds of people were doing this; they openly admit that their qualifications were a joke to begin with.
SKB
They had a massively leveraged investment. Lots of retirement savings at risk. Looks like a fight to survive, with cannibalism among contractors, subcontractors, banks, borrowers, and investors. Screwed — actual prospective homeowners who bought into communities that are about to tank.
I see a novel by Tom Wolfe in the works.
I hope so. I read “I am Charlotte Simmons” last year and enjoyed the hell out of it.
‘The qualifications were almost a joke. I was surprised at the time it was so easy,’
Joseph Campbell: “Follow your bliss.”
Investor Schwegman: “Follow your greed.”
The same bank gave the investors lines of credit of 300k to purchase homes , and same bank made the construction loans , and I guess same bank would of gave the long term loans .Is there a conflict of interest here that the same bank is funding the down payment on credit lines for this pre-construction ? Looks like the contractor needed the money more than the sub-contractors .
I’m trying to figue out how the sub-contractors can lein the pre-construction buyers ,unless the investment group became partners with the builder . This deal is confusing .
“I’m trying to figue out how the sub-contractors can lein the pre-construction buyers”
It’s because of the Florida Lein Law:
“If your contractor fails to pay subcontractors or material suppliers, the people who are owed money may look to your property for payment, even if you have paid your contractor in full.”
This is what happens when the subcontractors vote in Florida and the pre-construction buyers are from other states.
Hee, hee, hee. That’s called the ol’Florida Flipper Fry.
So, your saying they’re frying up investors who thought they were “sharks” but turned out to be “the fish”.
That is brutal. I wonder how many of the “investors” knew that if the contractor goes BK and doesn’t pay the subcontractors that the subcontractors can go after the investors? I’m guessing there are some tense family gatherings coming up when someone has to explain to their Aunt Jenny and Cousin Biff how they got them into such a mess.
I wasn’t questioning that the sub-contractors had lein rights ,I was questioning that a Bank transferred ownership to investors pre-construction as well as gave them a credit line to finance a deal ,making it a no money down deal against most construction loan rules and in conflict of interest .
So essentially this law says you have to be the contractor yourself and hire individuals (one at a time) personally to do your work. Even so, Say you hired someone, one guy, you gave him the money to do the work and buy the materials, then he doesn’t show up and do any work and doesn’t pay his Home Depot bill. Can Home Depot sue you for his unpaid bill? What a ridiculous law.
I think the answer to that is yes, under certain circumstances. Construction lien laws are twice as fascinating as foreclosure laws.
My wife and I got burned by this for $1000.00 by a contractor who didn’t pay his architect.
I’m confused on the details of how these deals were put together. If anyone can link to a press article describing how these deals worked, please do so.
Fog a mirror . . . check
Have a FICO any FICO . . . check
Will sign whatever we put in front of you . . . check
“you’re approved”
I know I’m not too far off on this, did I miss anything?
You forgot “Don’t even know where the lot for this house IS, do you?”
Swamp land development don’t even compete with this for entertainment value.
hi SKB! Insane isn’t it! Good news is we can sit back and enjoy! There must be the seven stages to the housing bubble acceptance. These folks are clearly in the denial stage!
SKB…I don’t know what your problems are…
Just about anybody could get 100 to 115% financing, with little or nothing down…ads were/are flying everywhere…still
Go figure SKB…A $300,000 Mtg @ 5% vs A $150, 000 mtg @ 10%
= same Mo payments.. somebody called you a ‘prune brain’
Hey SKB,
Guess Crazy has nobody to listen to over at Paradise Lost. Hopefully Ben will do something about him. This blogs too big to matter. Guess he’s posing as DizzyLizzy too. Hey, Crazy, eat another bag of cheeto’s why don’t you!
“Carol Simmons, now a broker and owner of St. Petersburg-based Quantum Realty Solutions, says she sold about 150 CCI homes to financial investors ‘all over, from California to New York to Florida,’ while working at Dollar Realty and Mortgage in Tampa. ‘All of them got their loans from Coast Bank.’”
That sounds a lot like a million dollars Carol.
Be sure to check out
http://realestatehaircuts.blogspot.com/
for a sign of the times, in LA. Truthfully, $565K is at least $300K more than I would consider on this dump in GH, but the decline is now officially in full swing as comps are being reset much lower by REO sales….
I think the house below is comical. Hey look! There’s a little two story house attached to that huge garage.
“The investors say they were lured into buying Southwest Florida houses by CCI and were forced to take mortgages from Coast Bank in order to complete the transactions.”
They should really go after the guy that had the gun to their heads when they signed the paperwork. This is an outrage!
The next biggy will be the regulators coming in and closing a few banks. This will result in all the banks slamming the faucet shut on all real estate unless backed by a portfolio of some kind with the borrower. Credit worthiness will be the key to borrowing. Not scores but assets and cash. Very few people will be able to stand up to scrutiny as many of the F’d Investors are these people who overloaded their portfolios with contingent liabilities and personal guarantees.
If I were a banker I would fear for my job if I had much out there in residential paper.
Ultimately the well will run dry and that is where the rubber will meet the road. No money to plug the dike. I look for it by summer.
You ain’t seen nothing yet. Give it another 6 months. You are going to see all the speculation and poor lending standards come to a head.
This is not the fault of any lending institution. This is the fault of the government creating another bubble. Out of the stock market - into real estate - now back into the stock market. The government did not learn from the S&L scandal and now it is back in vogue.
You had a lot of lenders who had very little experience riding the mortgage boom. Now the problems are thriving and they have no method of prevention. ABN AMBRO has been bought by Citi. Other sub prime borrowers are going out of business. You are going to see tremendous competition and consolidation this year. The consumer is going to get the wrong end of the stick.
As for the housing market, there are 10 house for sale in my ‘hood and that is in a one block radius. They keep building. Why would you buy and old house when the builder is throwing in the kitchen sink? This is going to come full circle. Anyone who says that housing has bottomed is a punk or a realtor.
I am scared….hold me.
So what’s the next bubble?
Lets be honest, I think most of us agree that at some point the gravy train is going to stop. I heard a saying about the French that I think applies to our government’s bureaucrats, the saying is “The French have the ability to piss in the wind without getting wet.” So what are the bureaucrats going to do in the face of logic that, if not saving the typical American, will save the things that bureaucrats care most about?
Hey, I just did a refi on my 1992 Buick. I was able to lover the interest rate .5%, and draw out an extra $625 in equity!
I’m gonna roll that $625 right into a brand new Flat Panel TV at Best Buy!!
Management at Coast Bank has said nothing other than that they’re looking into matters.
WTF were they doing as they wrote 25% of their portfolio to ONE BUILDER?
Wasn’t that the time to look into things? Like maybe checking to see if any of the construction work was actually being done?
This is criminal.
The Chinese and other oversea markets are big investors in mortgage backed securities. I read another report that said the party is over.
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Economists See Further Home Sales Declines
The ongoing decline in home sales will not bottom out until the third and fourth quarters of this year, according to a committee of chief economists from major U.S. banks. The Economic Advisory Committee of the American Bankers Association is forecasting a 6.5% decline in existing- and new-home sales, compared with last year’s totals. “The committee expects that home sales will bottom out toward the end of 2007,” says the EAC’s regional economic outlook report. “The commercial real estate sector is expected to stay strong, which should help to offset the drag of the residential real estate sector and support the growth of the overall economy.” The report notes that existing-home sales in California dropped by 25% last year but sales have remained steady since mid-2006. “There are signs that the California market may have reached a soft landing,” the EAC report says. The ABA can be found online at http://www.aba.com.
Is anyone else here miffed by this idea that the commercial RE sector will just pick up the slack as residential tanks? This makes zero sense to me. Much of the commercial growth has been a direct result of so many new communities popping up. Why build another commercial project when no one is moving into the hood?
I’m shocked no one has commented on this
**************************************
“To Schwegman’s alarm, certified letters arrived at her house late last year. They were from the company that laid her foundation and a concrete block vendor. She owes them close to $30,000. Turns out CCI wasn’t paying the bills, and the subcontractors came after her.”
“‘I don’t know what my options are,’ said Schwegman, who turned her home contract over to a lawyer. ‘I’m hoping for a loophole. I’m hoping to pull something from the sky on that one.’”
**********************************************
You know it’s bad when the so called savvy investor is looking for a loophole to get out of this mess. I guess she doesn’t want to end up as the bagholder.
I don’t see it mentioned and I think it is a critical point. When Ortiz is talking about the great earnings at his bank, he fails to mention that the earnings are paper earnings and not cash earnings. GAAP allows a bank to record income on a negative amortization loan. Meaning when the homeowner has elected to not make a payment or a lower payment (under some the mortgage offered) the bank increases the principal of the loan and records the other side of the entry to earnings. So ignore the income statement and focus on the cash flow statement if you are looking at any of the banks involved with the crazy loans being offered the past few years. Of course I will add that fractional reserve banking is corrupt by its very nature (the bank sets up a loan as an asset and creates the demand deposit on the liability side, just bookkeeping, nothing to really support the loan since reserve requirements are basically almost zero).
There’s a really, really nasty, arrogant, and–not surprisingly–abysmally ignorant realtor holding forth on this blog:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/realestate/entries/2007/01/22/good_fences_make_good_nabors.html
Here’s a sample of his blather:
You have some stupid, pathetic job, whatever it is. Maybe you sell insurance. Maybe you adjust widgets. It doesn’t matter. We don’t try to argue about your job because you are the expert in your field. Yet for some inconceivable reason, you think you are qualified to argue with us, all trained and experienced experts, based on what? You read the classified ads?
If you lived for the next 100 years, you would not have access to our training, our experience, our data, our contacts, our clients, our knowledge.
Some of you folks need to go make life miserable for him.
Sorry to say, BUT, I think the Palm Beach Realtor, sounds miserable already, and probably hasn’t had a sale in months, even with all his knowledge and contacts, etc, etc…He’s qualified to nothing, which is what he is doing!!!