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Yet Another Way to Get Spendable Money From One’s Home
“Rex & Co. (Real estate Equity eXchange) will actually invest in you and your home. They hand you cash in exchange for up to 15% of your equity. This arrangement is not a loan, it’s more akin to an investment in your company. They participate in the upside when property values go up and share in the loss should they go down.”
“How much are the closing costs? The costs of obtaining a REX Agreement will vary, but include fees for: appraisal, preliminary title report, title insurance, credit report, natural hazard disclosure, tax service, flood certification, notary, wire, messenger, and recording.”
Of course, Rex & Co. will go public and you can indirectly sell a share in your home to the public. After you have signed a second mortgage to Rex & Co. for some money you will be approached by Wrecks & Co., in due course, to offer you some more money for yet another share and you will sign a third mortgage. God forbid, the prices go down, or Rex & Wrecks go bankrupt. Who knows what your rights will be when things go sour. How many Americans will read the fine print when someone is dangling money in their faces? And how many will know the full cost of being Rexed, or Wrecksed?
America – a land of legalized financial scams. Scamsters know that Americans are bred to be suckers, very thoroughly; they just need to scheme a new way to suck the general public and milk it for what it is worth before the scheme is made illegal. Scam Options, without expensing, during 1995-2005, is a case in point. Tech companies sucked more than a trillion dollars via the scam.
“We’re adding people at a clip that is much greater than the ability to add supply in the home-building stream,” Toll said. “Supply has been stagnant since the 1970s.”
Is there any shred of fact to that statement? That seems pretty impossible to me, as it would mean that homebuilders really have not been doing anything in the 30 years prior to 2000. Where does a statement like this come from?
At least their stock price keeps going up. Since last July, it is up 50% ($22/share to $33/share). And since the stock market has a great track record as a predictor of future economic performance*, this means a soft landing is on the way for later 2007.
And the period 1929-54 was not a good time to be heavily invested in the stock market. (Yes, it took 25 years for the stock market to regain what had been vaporized in the Great Crash.)
It is a plain vanilla self-serving lie. The Demand since 1970s peak is DOWN big and supply has not caught down with the demand. There is a reason why we have added to Vacant Units at a pace NEVER BEFORE in US history for which the data is available.
During 2002-2007 the US would have built 9-10 years worth of demand in six years. This is assuming that there is no recession or a depression. If there is a depression then the US has built 20+ years worth of demand in six years! Yes, the demand goes NEGATIVE during recessions and depressions.
RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION WILL GROUND TO HALT IN 70-80% AREAS IN THE US DURING 2008-10.
Take your equity and run…. Looks like we will have more ‘halfbacks’ entering our state of South Carolina. I hope they get stuck with their Florida shacks and have to stay down there, the bastards just keep our prices up. Please stay down there in gods waiting room.
wmbz, I was one of those Floridians who considered South Carolina as a relocation possibility two years ago, and the Columbia area was where I was looking, on the internet, anyway. But I didn’t do it, so don’t blame me. The buzz among the retirees around here in Southshore area of Tampa Bay is that South Carolina is the place to go. But originally it wasn’t the taxes or insurance that was driving the migration, it was the hurricanes. People were freaked out. Anyway, I’m hearing that those who live in the coastal part of South Carolina are getting the same screwing on insurance as those in Florida. And I understand how you feel, Floridians have been really bummed out by the invasion of “investors”. This whole thing has spread like a cancer. I suggest “venting” as a weekend topic. Those of us living in areas that we have been happy with might like to vent about the newcomers to their area.
You’re lucky if your area of SC is getting the equitied homeowners. Here in the upstate (Greenville) it seems we are getting the poor renters who couldn’t afford the cost of living in FL. You should see the crappy junk cars full of ugly overweight people with a smoke hanging off their lips with FL plates driving all over our fine area…We need a border fence along the southwest part of the state.
Opitimistically banking on future productivity gains, to increase future wages, floating all boats and as a replacement for wishful thinking and hope?
The President of the Federal Bank of Philadelphia really hammered the bears in his speech Feb. 7. His smooth disclaimer that economist are known as bad forecasters who cannot even explain the past failed to mention the Austrian economists who say they can explain the past quite simply, have present a clearer picture of where we are headed than does the Fed President and the followers of mainstream economics who can only guess, even when using the figures thay have at hand. The Fed President points out that for the last year the bears have been looking too pessimistic and downright wrong. The Fed President paints a nice average US economic picture of 3.4 percent GDP, 2.2 million new jobs, and 4.5 percent unemployment. The goldilocks economy gets murky when he says that wages increased 4.1 percent while the Feds different measures of inflation confusingly seem to indicate a rise by half that much or maybe more. I suppose that is localized and regional.
The Fed President talked about the rising and falling prices of oil and how it seems like the price dip currently could only be temparary in the same way the hurricanes were, as if the price of oil was not manipulated. The big three automakers are a central component to our economy and the only mention this sector recieved was that it is still competitive. How? Competitive at the race to the bottom?
The biggest statement to come from a Federal Reserve official for the housing bubble bears and bulls came with no exclamation point, “…we saw a boom and bust in the housing market…” This kind of contradicts his attempt to slam the bears. We should no longer see the statement, “there is no housing bubble” in the main stream media. Everyone who said there was not a housing bubble these last few years has just been slammed by the President of the Federal Reserve Board. What economist has more information than the President of the Federal reserve Board to say otherwise? The President of the Federal reserve Board said we had, “…a substantial downturn in the housing market…” everyone who said differently flat out lied or were ignorant. The Fed President still maintains that all real estate markets ARE just local markets eventhough he says their total averages are whats busting, which is why it appears not all local markets are busting. Got that? The excess supply of homes is not listed as a problem, simply a case of a need for an increase in demand to catch up with supply. However, the Fed President seems to imply that the home builders must stop building so many homes until demand catches a falling knife, ‘er I mean until demand catches up with supply. Are the home builders slowing enough? The Fed President says that, now, after the latest housing slump when home building slumped, housing starts have risen in the last two months as an indication that demand is catching up with supply and the turnaround is near. Is the rise in housing starts a little early to be a positive development? Not to worry though, he tells us that the inventory will eventually be bought and home construction will pick back up. Do not worry about catching a falling knife at this point, look at the Feds recent data. lol. An increase in new home sales Dec. and Jan. may mean the turnaround is already happening, disreguard the contradiction that new housing starts are rising. With home construction around five percent of economic activity, the Fed President admits that this sector can have more effect on other sectors and even make things worse for companies that have little to do with building houses. According to the Fed President, commercial construction picked up the slack from job losses in residential construction, it was a wash. We have had growth, we have created new jobs during this time, and he attributes some of this to the commercial construction side. The same commercial construction that sits empty everywhere, the result of the twelve percent increase in commercial investment created by the Feds previously loose monitary policy, not savings from income profits? Commercial vacancy rates would be key to understanding the sustainability of this sector of the economy and all those connected with it. Here is where I would place the chart showing GDP growth since 2001 minus home equity withdraws, that is, negative GDP. With consumer spending more than three fourths of GDP, price stability is supposed to maintain this spending? Is price stability within a certain range THE main public concern of the Fed? The question then is, how does that certain range adjust? If the Fed raises rates the reason seems clear, information the Fed uses to measure rising prices tells them to, but not until the info is collected and on their desk, thus the infamous lag.
The optimist uses the bulls favorite word of last resort, hope. The Fed President says there are, “…hopeful signs of an improvement in the housing market; robust growth in consumer spending…” Dead cat bounce all year long is more like it. There is no mention of the record seventy year low savings rate of consumers and how this will affect anything else. He does imply that growth in residential construction must pick back up and it is an area of concern. I’ll bet the big three auto makers future depends on this happening. The Feds outlook seems to be that price stability in housing will cause residential construction to pick back up. If we are not at the bottom of the housing bubble bursting, this should not occur and we will all know then, what is up with housing, eh, or is stagflation considered price stability?
Foreign trade is a part of consumer income, the Fed President describes that sector as small and encouraging, not quite exactly the stuff of sustainable consumer spending. He said 2006 had a 3.7 percent increase in spending because of a strong job market and rising incomes. That was then, this is now. He thinks these factors will continue and keep consumers spending at a, “moderate pace in 2007″.
In the Fed Presidents speech he uses a personal story in relating that businesses are finding it harder and harder to retain and attract good employees, that is, maintain employment levels. Wage rates, or the high cost of living in high density areas are not mentioned as a cause, nor is the depletion of our manufacturing base (along with the experienced employees since then retrained and employed in other fields) over the last twenty years. The Fed President also fails to mention how sustainable the 8.4 percent increase in exports is in relation to the economies of the world. Is China having a stock market meltdown? If our imports only increased by 1.2 percent that means the US is buying fewer imported Chineese goods? The Chineese manufacturer is exporting fewer goods to the US resulting in lower profits? Lower Chineese income results in fewer purchases of US goods, unless the dollar crashes? If the dollar crashes, how do more US consumers buy more, higher priced, imported Chineese goods to keep the cycle of trade going? Are all future US exporting increases to occur with Europe more than any other region of the world? Many Germans seem to be expressing distaste for the rise in the purchasing power of their currency contributing to the increases in US exports to Europe. There are reports of governments the world over masking the true level of inflation and other growth amounts, leaving the impression that an underhanded, shuffling around the world game of money purchasing power tag is taking place.
Like most mainstream economist, the Fed President focuses on the demand side. He must liken consumers to the, “Cargo Cult” when he implys that because peoples incomes grow, they tend to become homeowners rather than renters. From this speech, it appears the Fed considers income growth and price stability to be the sources of consumer demand for homes. The Fed President said that the number of owner occupied housing only increased four percent since 1995 and houses on average got twenty percent bigger, this is the trend he expects to continue, dependent on the increases in wage growth. The connection with the ratio of the cost to buy a home compared to wage levels is never made, only the stability of the supply and price level, much like the “Cargo Cult” who never made the connection of the difference between an operational radio tower and one made of coconuts - just use whatever looks like what worked last time.
The Fed President goes through two senerios he sees could happen in the future. In one of his Orwellian statements, true and untrue at the same time, he said, “…when market prices are free to adjust, resources shift to their highest valued use, allowing the economy to continue to grow…” quite an optimistic assumption. Resources shift as much as they can against manipulative forces but what if the highest valued use is not high enough to provide a profit and growth leaving only hope and an expectation of future gains? Get out the bulldozers? His last two months of data point to 3.5 percent increases in home price appreciation v.s. the last two years of ten to thirteen percent growth. This is not seen by the Fed as causing homeowner wealth to decline leading to lower consumer spending. You see, the stockmarket is doing well and everyone is having productivity gains both of which lead the homeowners, indeed everyone, to think long term income will increase. That is, the consumer thinks they can keep on spending because they think they can keep on making increasing monthly payment amounts and increasing their debt load and still adjust to keep up with their costs and standards of living. Think’n and a hope’n. .
Is the Fed President reading this blog? In the middle of his speech his statements mirror this blog years ago: “regional markets had different experiences when the housing market heated up. Now they will have different experiences as the market cools. And the areas where the run-up in home prices was most dramatic will most likely feel the adjustment process the most acutely.” What happened to the wage increases, the builders slowing home construction, commercial construction offsetting any losses in residential construction, and the bottom is here now?
The Fed President distributed the Bank’s fourth-quarter Business Review article by Tim Schiller entitled “Housing: Boom or Bubble?” I wonder what the content of that article was?
In typical Fed fashion the Fed President goes on to threaten the need to raise rates in light of past increases in inflation to slow the inflation he claims is a measure of how fast future (and desired) wage growth will be, unless of course the inflation is caused by productivity gains. How confusing. If past and future wage growth is accompanied by rises in productivity - well then - that wage growth is not inflationary at all according to the Fed President. The Fed President ends his speech by saying that the Federal Reserve monetary policy is the primary source of persistent inflation (suprise?) and that policy was too unrestricted during the housing bubble boom years of 2001 through 2005 (suprise again? the mortgage lenders accomplice?). The Fed President seems to be saying if they do not let the short-term interest rates rise, “with the market,” that action creates even more inflation. This must be different than when they raise the short-term interest rates against the market? Is the Fed trying to position itself in the publics eye as not to blame for the, “market” rasing long-term interest rates? Either way, the idea is that rising short-term interest rates in a growing economy is required to match aggregate savings with aggregate investment,… how can that be if we have no savings?
It has been a long time since I have read about how someone has to, “fight off their wife like a lion tamer” to avoid buying a house. Was there something in the smog or was that just a common herd mentality seeking a percieved position of safety from a fight or flight condition brought on by too much additional stress as a result of the occurance of, and the (known and unknown) possible outcomes of the WTC attacks and the Iraq War II as put forth by the mainstream media and our official leaders in truth? A mad scramble to buy houses that in hindsight looked more like a deer drive to the slaughter, financial and otherwise. What average J6P and Jane SoccarZim didnt believe The President of the Federal Reserve Alan Greenspan [when he proclaimed from Jackson Hole Wyoming that now is a good time to use an a.r.m. unless you are prepaired to loose money] leaving the impression that now is THE time to buy? Run to the ditch you stupid deer. I did. I did not think it was a good idea, but I believed it was, in part because there were no government or banking officals saying otherwise. To think otherwise got one branded a terrorist, or brainlessly crazy by the general population. Before Bens Housing Bubble Blog there were very very few internet writers sounding any type of counterargument to the housing boomers. The branding is wearing thin now and popcorn sounds good. - Jmho.
Don’t wonder if “it” (a fascist takeover of the United States government) can happen here. It has happened here. This administration can wage war when, where and how it pleases, for as long as it pleases, for whatever reason it wants and - under current conditions - there is nobody in America, within or without the government, who can stop it. The US Government is effectively a dictatorship in all matters of war and peace.- Michael Nolan
Clark — For future rant purposes, please note the President is the head of the executive branch of our government. The Federal Reserve Board is headed by a Chairman. And I agree that you took more than your fair share of the weekend topic suggestion blog space.
Wait, GS. I have to call foul on that one. If we add up all of your posts in a thread, I am sure that you take up more than your fair share. Don’t get me wrong, I for one am okay with that because you generally are knowledgeable and always lend something to the discussion. And often I learn something from you.
I’m having trouble connecting a hawkish fed with a facist state and just would rather discuss something else.
Got popcorn?
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Comment by nnvmtgbrkr
2007-02-09 08:59:59
How about different ways to enjoy popcorn?
Comment by Clark
2007-02-09 09:59:18
Pardon the length, the speech was long as well. Excuse the lack of the use of the enter key. I did not write the last pharagraph, the significance of that to the housing bubble is that if The President of the USA can go to war without Congress, surely The President of the USA can manufacture up an illusion of an FB bailout, similar to the War on Poverty. The President of the USA and not Charles I. Plosser, President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, my mistake due to time. The policy of the Federal Reserve Board IS the policy of the Chairman, and its members.
After yesterday’s HSBC and NEW bombshells, it should come as no surprise that the ABX indices took a pronounced turn for the worst, with most ’06 tranches plumbing 6 month lows:
Note the pop almost all tranches enjoyed late last week, (Russ Winter’s Godfather Protection Racket?), gains which have now been completely reversed. Thanks, FCB’s, and don’t forget to grab a bigger bag on your way out the door.
my topic suggestion, with all the bad news in the sub-prime sector will we ever see a return to more conventional lending with the old school lending practices or are these garbage liar no doc, no money down things here to stay?
I think liar loans etc. are here to stay, because there is no way to support current home prices without them (except maybe for negative rates, you never know as Bernanke already suggested the FED could use something like that if necessary). At least in Europe, with a return to lending standards of 15 years ago, the housing market would crater (probably minus 30-75%, depending on country); and when mortgage rates revert to the norm (risk priced into the rates) it would be even worse. I guess the same goes for most of the US bubblestates.
“I think liar loans etc. are here to stay, because there is no way to support current home prices without them”
That’s not what will determine liar loan viability. Investor appetite for these loans, and the price they’re willing to pay, will determine their staying power and usage. Housing prices will be the secondary effect, one way or the other.
I agree. They’re not going away but will not be as nutty as the past few years - until the next cycle begins.
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Comment by Chrisusc
2007-02-09 08:40:26
Agreed. The underwriting will probably get a bit tighter, or rather the underwriting will begin to exist.
Comment by Neil
2007-02-09 09:08:41
I agree this should be a topic.
Take a look at the MBS bonds… guess what nhz, the MBS buyers don’t care if you lose $50k on your house. They do care if they lose $50k.
I expect an overcorrection.
Most low down loans will be at egregious rates or FHA (and I’m all for FHA loans).
20% down will become the norm for starters.
25%+ down will be expected for anything above starters.
Heck, we’re already seeing the sub-primes demanding 5% and 10% down payments and taking the hit in the turn rate. Ok… they’ll just lay off brokers and do less business. Oh wait, they have no choice, fewer people are buying their bonds…
do-oooggggaaa! The dive alarm is sounding.
What you or I want doesn’t matter. The “invisible hand” of the free market is b%tch slapping the mortgage companies.
Or see today’s WSJ, page C14, article “Burned mortage lenders may get overly cautious.”
“The Fed’s latest survey finds that the majority of mortgage lenders are now tightening their lending standards.” ugh… oh… Oh, wait, I have a large down payment ready, so this is good for me (as long as I keep my job).
“A mortgage credit crunch would have a severe economic impact.” (really?)
“… garbage liar no doc, no money down things here to stay?”
The government’s War on Subprime continues, and the kingpins are running for the hills. No kingpins, no local dealers, no new future subprime debt addicts.
Come’on GS you’re not really a believer of that dog and pony show are you? Just what the Joe6pack needs another form to fill out after 6 mo’s of hearings.
The 1980s “greed is good” stock bubble ended in August 1987, and a couple of years (and a stock market crash) later the unraveling led to the sudden bankruptcy of Drexel Burnham Lambert.
The 1990s “irrational exuberance” stock bubble ended in March 2000. And within a couple of years, the tech bust was punctuated by the vaporization of Enron.
The early 2000s housing bubble peaked around August 2005. And within the next few months…
We’re already there, but watch for credit card debt go through the roof now that the housing ATM has been “shut down for repairs”. Americans have an insatiable need for consumption, and like any addict, the short term need always trumps the long term consequences.
You know, that’s interesting. I just had two cards give me significant unprompted credit line increases in January. Since I keep low balances on these cards the net effect is tick upward in my FICO score. I’m wondering if they’re doing this on a larger scale to milk cardholders that have their tails in a crack from ARM resets or layoffs…
LOL. While counseling my FB buddy Bob he said his wife could have the house and dog. I LMAO b/c their expenses exceeded their combined incomes and there is no way she can make the payments.
But that don’t mean ya walks away from the debt obligation, cowboy. Cue the twangy guitars . . . he might be in a diaper speeding down I-10 soon enough . . .
Exactly. Who agrees to pay 8 + pct on an ARM primary during record low interest rates (july/aug 2005) and combines it with a piggy back second with a balloon pmt for the full amount at the end of the term?!?
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Comment by mrincomestream
2007-02-09 07:09:22
Ouch!, he must have been what is called a credit bandit. He had no business buying the house if his credit was that horrible.
More cynically, which of the current gaseous windbags (i.e., Presidential candidates) has the best schtick, voting record, cred, to ride this beast to the White House? I’d have a hard time guessing at this point.
I would say either before this President leaves office, or some time during the next President’s tenure, that there is a 20% of that happening. Especially if the sh*t really hits the fan from an economic standpoint and the middle class’ ranks are seriously reduced. Which is scary to think.
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Comment by nnvmtgbrkr
2007-02-09 08:58:12
That’s it!……I’m diggin’ a hole in the backyard and stocking up on emergency supplies!
As we enter the insolvency boom, how long would it take disgusted FBs and specuvestors to regain their appetite and ability to buy homes and investments?
A bit longer than it will take prices to bottom out below affordable levels by traditional qualification standards (not New Era subprime qualification standards, such as “If you can breath, you qualify for a loan to buy a $500K home.”)
I don’t think the FBs and current specuvestors will be back. No one will lend to them.
Housing will in the end be purchased by legit first time homeowners and grave dancers who sat out the bubble. There may need to be some kind of federal gurantee to get lenders to give mortgages to even them.
BTW, the WSJ said today that Fannie and Freddie are only 40% of the secondary mortgage market right now.
What about a discussion on private equity firms… These guys are flippers on a massive scale,using leveraged money to buy, “fix” and flip companies. What will be the endgame for these entities?
I thought Apple’s board had exonerated the CEO from blame in the options postdating scandal. Why won’t these stories just go away?
——————————————————————————————–
Pixar Pay Package to Lasseter Included Well-Timed Options
By Steve Stecklow
Word Count: 1,266 | Companies Featured in This Article: Walt Disney, Apple
Steve Jobs helped negotiate an employment contract with a top film director that included a large stock-options grant with an especially well-timed date, according to a person familiar with the matter.
The options grant, part of a 2001 employment contract reached between Pixar Inc. and noted animated-film director John Lasseter, carried the lowest share price of the previous year — on a date more than three months before the employment contract was actually signed. Mr. Jobs, then Pixar’s chairman and chief executive, signed the agreement on behalf of Pixar.
It remains unclear what role, if any, Mr. Jobs played in …
Absent government intervention, the subprime meltdown would most certainly lead to a hard landing, as home prices would need to fall by a large percentage across the US to rediscover the end-user bid. So a government bailout looks like it is in the bag. I am wondering what form it will take, and how they will communicate it so stupid people don’t realize they are being coerced into paying for other stupid people’s stupidity.
I think the government is way behind the curve with bailout money. They are too busy fixing the numbers and trying to convince the masses everything is fine. And if they are not fixing the numbers, they are still busy spending boom dollars.
GetStucco….I am curious about this assertion. It assumes that the subprime segment is a huge segment of the recent home-buying market. Do you have any data on this? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just curious.
I believe the subprime bid set prices for California over the past few years. But this is just a theory (like the Theory of Evolution is just a theory)…
Long time reader, but less frequently since having a baby this fall. If this has already been discussed, my apologies…
How often do real estate agents have to renew their licenses? Is it yearly? Is there any way to track the number of lapsed licenses in the coming months/years?
My dad and I were discussing the costs that agents are incurring while not selling houses (newspaper ads, gas money, etc.). How many of them are going to walk away and not even keep their credentials up-to-date because they realize there is no real money to be made in the foreseeable future and instead they are losing it hand over fist?
Sallie;….In Cali., Lic renewal every 4 years….40 hours of continuing education required for renewal but that is pretty much hollow since you can do it on line….Anyone “Active’ in the business will have Local, State & National dues & fees…As far as tracking renewals I am not sure….I can tell you this given my past experience, 20% of the licenses make 80% of the money…In downturns like the one we are experiencing most of those low end earners will renew their license but stop participating in the business….
The stock market wealth effect is a poor substitute for the housing market wealth effect. Despite the 401(K) revolution, stock market wealth is too-heavily concentrated at the top of the income distribution. By contrast, the housing market reverse wealth effect implied by the subprime implosion is huge, especially considering how many low income households were persuaded to drink the subprime koolaide.
A topic worth considering is a roundup of internet sites devoted to the housing bubble and how the internet is influencing the mass psychology of the RE market.
How about a discussion about those of us who are waiting to buy — I’m one of them and I am getting a bit discouraged. I passed on a great house (for me) that really wasn’t overpriced that much (and the person that bought it got it for 10% less than asking). By the time I figured out I wanted the house (I had just moved here) it was gone. I’ve also become so gun shy about buying that I feel like I won’t recognize a deal when I see it anymore. I know some houses are sitting on the market here with no one even looking at them, but the only two that I have considered both sold within a few months at about 10% off.
Any suggestions of criteria for fence sitters to get off the fence? If I were still in the SF Bay Area the answer would be easy — the prices are so ridiculous there I won’t buy again unless I hit the Lotto jackpot. But in less pricey areas, where there has still been lots of run up but the prices are much, much lower how do we make our decision of when to buy? [I'm in the midwest now.]
Also, what about building instead of buying? When does that make sense (assuming you can’t find an existing home that you like)?
I hope other people are interested in this topic and willing to put forth their suggetions, comments, insights.
” I passed on a great house (for me) that really wasn’t overpriced that much ”
Check out the previous prices of the house on zillow. If the pre-bubble (pre-2000) price + 4% a year for inflation is much less than the current asking price, than it’s still overpriced. Housing sticks to inflation over the long term.
I am in a similar situation, and I use a timeline rather than prices as my guide. I will buy
- after ARM have reset and this has been discussed in the MSM
- lending standards have returned to pre-bubble for some time (to have an impression on the market)
Before 2009, I won’t buy. Renting for two years isn’t bad, because my children are small.
With ARM, I meant option mortgages or exotic mortgages. Those should be exceptions for exceptional people, like doctors or lawyers fresh out of school. I have nothing against amortizing ARMs, on them I agree with Greenspan.
Here’s my topic suggestion:
I am a renter in a good neighborhood in Los Angeles. There are many vacant homes in this area, some of them are probably flips-gone-wrong. A few of the vacant homes have recently had “for rent” signs out front. I am tempted. But if the owner bought intending to flip, and is now forced to look for tenants because he/she can’t sell, then the risk of foreclosure is high and being a renter in such a home is risky. I’d like to know what this group thinks. I know the laws regarding tenants in foreclosed properties vary depending on locale. I’ve heard some real horror stories - like long term stable renters kicked out by the bank after foreclosure, just to make the place easier to auction. Will we be seeing a lot of that this year? If the property is managed by a management company does that provide the renter with any extra protection? What if the lender has already imploded - who will be foreclosing and taking possession? However this plays out, it seems likely that the rental market will suffer plenty of collateral damage from the bursting of the housing bubble.
> If the property is managed by a management company does that provide the renter with any extra protection?
Protection for the renter’s deposit, Yes, if the management owns the account; protection from the next owner, No. On the other hand, a good renter provides a bank with some cash-flow at least, and you might negotiate a short-term lease with them.
Topic: Where has all that money gone?
If this is as much a Ponzi scheme as most on this blog believes, where is that money that trickeled to the top? In the stockmarket? In hedgefunds? In private accounts waiting for the bust? In SUVs, flatpanels and Humvees?
Name:Ben Jones Location:Northern Arizona, United States To donate by mail, or to otherwise contact this blogger, please send emails to: thehousingbubble@gmail.com
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Yet Another Way to Get Spendable Money From One’s Home
“Rex & Co. (Real estate Equity eXchange) will actually invest in you and your home. They hand you cash in exchange for up to 15% of your equity. This arrangement is not a loan, it’s more akin to an investment in your company. They participate in the upside when property values go up and share in the loss should they go down.”
http://www.altosresearch.com/blog/
“How much are the closing costs? The costs of obtaining a REX Agreement will vary, but include fees for: appraisal, preliminary title report, title insurance, credit report, natural hazard disclosure, tax service, flood certification, notary, wire, messenger, and recording.”
http://www.rex-inc.com/faqs.php
Of course, Rex & Co. will go public and you can indirectly sell a share in your home to the public. After you have signed a second mortgage to Rex & Co. for some money you will be approached by Wrecks & Co., in due course, to offer you some more money for yet another share and you will sign a third mortgage. God forbid, the prices go down, or Rex & Wrecks go bankrupt. Who knows what your rights will be when things go sour. How many Americans will read the fine print when someone is dangling money in their faces? And how many will know the full cost of being Rexed, or Wrecksed?
America – a land of legalized financial scams. Scamsters know that Americans are bred to be suckers, very thoroughly; they just need to scheme a new way to suck the general public and milk it for what it is worth before the scheme is made illegal. Scam Options, without expensing, during 1995-2005, is a case in point. Tech companies sucked more than a trillion dollars via the scam.
Jas
Sorry, this was meant for Bits Bucket.
Jas
Toll Brothers expects revene to continue to shrink:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/local/sfl-ztoll09feb09,0,2227250.story?coll=sfla-business-headlines
Quote:
“We’re adding people at a clip that is much greater than the ability to add supply in the home-building stream,” Toll said. “Supply has been stagnant since the 1970s.”
Is there any shred of fact to that statement? That seems pretty impossible to me, as it would mean that homebuilders really have not been doing anything in the 30 years prior to 2000. Where does a statement like this come from?
At least their stock price keeps going up. Since last July, it is up 50% ($22/share to $33/share). And since the stock market has a great track record as a predictor of future economic performance*, this means a soft landing is on the way for later 2007.
http://tinyurl.com/265g65
*1929 was a noteable exception to the track record.
And the period 1929-54 was not a good time to be heavily invested in the stock market. (Yes, it took 25 years for the stock market to regain what had been vaporized in the Great Crash.)
actually, late 1932/early 1933 was a great time to get into the stock market.
–
“Where does a statement like this come from? ”
It is a plain vanilla self-serving lie. The Demand since 1970s peak is DOWN big and supply has not caught down with the demand. There is a reason why we have added to Vacant Units at a pace NEVER BEFORE in US history for which the data is available.
During 2002-2007 the US would have built 9-10 years worth of demand in six years. This is assuming that there is no recession or a depression. If there is a depression then the US has built 20+ years worth of demand in six years! Yes, the demand goes NEGATIVE during recessions and depressions.
RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION WILL GROUND TO HALT IN 70-80% AREAS IN THE US DURING 2008-10.
Jas
Take your equity and run…. Looks like we will have more ‘halfbacks’ entering our state of South Carolina. I hope they get stuck with their Florida shacks and have to stay down there, the bastards just keep our prices up. Please stay down there in gods waiting room.
http://biz.yahoo.com/brn/070208/21029.html?.v=1&.pf=real-estate
wmbz, I was one of those Floridians who considered South Carolina as a relocation possibility two years ago, and the Columbia area was where I was looking, on the internet, anyway. But I didn’t do it, so don’t blame me. The buzz among the retirees around here in Southshore area of Tampa Bay is that South Carolina is the place to go. But originally it wasn’t the taxes or insurance that was driving the migration, it was the hurricanes. People were freaked out. Anyway, I’m hearing that those who live in the coastal part of South Carolina are getting the same screwing on insurance as those in Florida. And I understand how you feel, Floridians have been really bummed out by the invasion of “investors”. This whole thing has spread like a cancer. I suggest “venting” as a weekend topic. Those of us living in areas that we have been happy with might like to vent about the newcomers to their area.
You’re lucky if your area of SC is getting the equitied homeowners. Here in the upstate (Greenville) it seems we are getting the poor renters who couldn’t afford the cost of living in FL. You should see the crappy junk cars full of ugly overweight people with a smoke hanging off their lips with FL plates driving all over our fine area…We need a border fence along the southwest part of the state.
Opitimistically banking on future productivity gains, to increase future wages, floating all boats and as a replacement for wishful thinking and hope?
The President of the Federal Bank of Philadelphia really hammered the bears in his speech Feb. 7. His smooth disclaimer that economist are known as bad forecasters who cannot even explain the past failed to mention the Austrian economists who say they can explain the past quite simply, have present a clearer picture of where we are headed than does the Fed President and the followers of mainstream economics who can only guess, even when using the figures thay have at hand. The Fed President points out that for the last year the bears have been looking too pessimistic and downright wrong. The Fed President paints a nice average US economic picture of 3.4 percent GDP, 2.2 million new jobs, and 4.5 percent unemployment. The goldilocks economy gets murky when he says that wages increased 4.1 percent while the Feds different measures of inflation confusingly seem to indicate a rise by half that much or maybe more. I suppose that is localized and regional.
The Fed President talked about the rising and falling prices of oil and how it seems like the price dip currently could only be temparary in the same way the hurricanes were, as if the price of oil was not manipulated. The big three automakers are a central component to our economy and the only mention this sector recieved was that it is still competitive. How? Competitive at the race to the bottom?
The biggest statement to come from a Federal Reserve official for the housing bubble bears and bulls came with no exclamation point, “…we saw a boom and bust in the housing market…” This kind of contradicts his attempt to slam the bears. We should no longer see the statement, “there is no housing bubble” in the main stream media. Everyone who said there was not a housing bubble these last few years has just been slammed by the President of the Federal Reserve Board. What economist has more information than the President of the Federal reserve Board to say otherwise? The President of the Federal reserve Board said we had, “…a substantial downturn in the housing market…” everyone who said differently flat out lied or were ignorant. The Fed President still maintains that all real estate markets ARE just local markets eventhough he says their total averages are whats busting, which is why it appears not all local markets are busting. Got that? The excess supply of homes is not listed as a problem, simply a case of a need for an increase in demand to catch up with supply. However, the Fed President seems to imply that the home builders must stop building so many homes until demand catches a falling knife, ‘er I mean until demand catches up with supply. Are the home builders slowing enough? The Fed President says that, now, after the latest housing slump when home building slumped, housing starts have risen in the last two months as an indication that demand is catching up with supply and the turnaround is near. Is the rise in housing starts a little early to be a positive development? Not to worry though, he tells us that the inventory will eventually be bought and home construction will pick back up. Do not worry about catching a falling knife at this point, look at the Feds recent data. lol. An increase in new home sales Dec. and Jan. may mean the turnaround is already happening, disreguard the contradiction that new housing starts are rising. With home construction around five percent of economic activity, the Fed President admits that this sector can have more effect on other sectors and even make things worse for companies that have little to do with building houses. According to the Fed President, commercial construction picked up the slack from job losses in residential construction, it was a wash. We have had growth, we have created new jobs during this time, and he attributes some of this to the commercial construction side. The same commercial construction that sits empty everywhere, the result of the twelve percent increase in commercial investment created by the Feds previously loose monitary policy, not savings from income profits? Commercial vacancy rates would be key to understanding the sustainability of this sector of the economy and all those connected with it. Here is where I would place the chart showing GDP growth since 2001 minus home equity withdraws, that is, negative GDP. With consumer spending more than three fourths of GDP, price stability is supposed to maintain this spending? Is price stability within a certain range THE main public concern of the Fed? The question then is, how does that certain range adjust? If the Fed raises rates the reason seems clear, information the Fed uses to measure rising prices tells them to, but not until the info is collected and on their desk, thus the infamous lag.
The optimist uses the bulls favorite word of last resort, hope. The Fed President says there are, “…hopeful signs of an improvement in the housing market; robust growth in consumer spending…” Dead cat bounce all year long is more like it. There is no mention of the record seventy year low savings rate of consumers and how this will affect anything else. He does imply that growth in residential construction must pick back up and it is an area of concern. I’ll bet the big three auto makers future depends on this happening. The Feds outlook seems to be that price stability in housing will cause residential construction to pick back up. If we are not at the bottom of the housing bubble bursting, this should not occur and we will all know then, what is up with housing, eh, or is stagflation considered price stability?
Foreign trade is a part of consumer income, the Fed President describes that sector as small and encouraging, not quite exactly the stuff of sustainable consumer spending. He said 2006 had a 3.7 percent increase in spending because of a strong job market and rising incomes. That was then, this is now. He thinks these factors will continue and keep consumers spending at a, “moderate pace in 2007″.
In the Fed Presidents speech he uses a personal story in relating that businesses are finding it harder and harder to retain and attract good employees, that is, maintain employment levels. Wage rates, or the high cost of living in high density areas are not mentioned as a cause, nor is the depletion of our manufacturing base (along with the experienced employees since then retrained and employed in other fields) over the last twenty years. The Fed President also fails to mention how sustainable the 8.4 percent increase in exports is in relation to the economies of the world. Is China having a stock market meltdown? If our imports only increased by 1.2 percent that means the US is buying fewer imported Chineese goods? The Chineese manufacturer is exporting fewer goods to the US resulting in lower profits? Lower Chineese income results in fewer purchases of US goods, unless the dollar crashes? If the dollar crashes, how do more US consumers buy more, higher priced, imported Chineese goods to keep the cycle of trade going? Are all future US exporting increases to occur with Europe more than any other region of the world? Many Germans seem to be expressing distaste for the rise in the purchasing power of their currency contributing to the increases in US exports to Europe. There are reports of governments the world over masking the true level of inflation and other growth amounts, leaving the impression that an underhanded, shuffling around the world game of money purchasing power tag is taking place.
Like most mainstream economist, the Fed President focuses on the demand side. He must liken consumers to the, “Cargo Cult” when he implys that because peoples incomes grow, they tend to become homeowners rather than renters. From this speech, it appears the Fed considers income growth and price stability to be the sources of consumer demand for homes. The Fed President said that the number of owner occupied housing only increased four percent since 1995 and houses on average got twenty percent bigger, this is the trend he expects to continue, dependent on the increases in wage growth. The connection with the ratio of the cost to buy a home compared to wage levels is never made, only the stability of the supply and price level, much like the “Cargo Cult” who never made the connection of the difference between an operational radio tower and one made of coconuts - just use whatever looks like what worked last time.
The Fed President goes through two senerios he sees could happen in the future. In one of his Orwellian statements, true and untrue at the same time, he said, “…when market prices are free to adjust, resources shift to their highest valued use, allowing the economy to continue to grow…” quite an optimistic assumption. Resources shift as much as they can against manipulative forces but what if the highest valued use is not high enough to provide a profit and growth leaving only hope and an expectation of future gains? Get out the bulldozers? His last two months of data point to 3.5 percent increases in home price appreciation v.s. the last two years of ten to thirteen percent growth. This is not seen by the Fed as causing homeowner wealth to decline leading to lower consumer spending. You see, the stockmarket is doing well and everyone is having productivity gains both of which lead the homeowners, indeed everyone, to think long term income will increase. That is, the consumer thinks they can keep on spending because they think they can keep on making increasing monthly payment amounts and increasing their debt load and still adjust to keep up with their costs and standards of living. Think’n and a hope’n. .
Is the Fed President reading this blog? In the middle of his speech his statements mirror this blog years ago: “regional markets had different experiences when the housing market heated up. Now they will have different experiences as the market cools. And the areas where the run-up in home prices was most dramatic will most likely feel the adjustment process the most acutely.” What happened to the wage increases, the builders slowing home construction, commercial construction offsetting any losses in residential construction, and the bottom is here now?
The Fed President distributed the Bank’s fourth-quarter Business Review article by Tim Schiller entitled “Housing: Boom or Bubble?” I wonder what the content of that article was?
In typical Fed fashion the Fed President goes on to threaten the need to raise rates in light of past increases in inflation to slow the inflation he claims is a measure of how fast future (and desired) wage growth will be, unless of course the inflation is caused by productivity gains. How confusing. If past and future wage growth is accompanied by rises in productivity - well then - that wage growth is not inflationary at all according to the Fed President. The Fed President ends his speech by saying that the Federal Reserve monetary policy is the primary source of persistent inflation (suprise?) and that policy was too unrestricted during the housing bubble boom years of 2001 through 2005 (suprise again? the mortgage lenders accomplice?). The Fed President seems to be saying if they do not let the short-term interest rates rise, “with the market,” that action creates even more inflation. This must be different than when they raise the short-term interest rates against the market? Is the Fed trying to position itself in the publics eye as not to blame for the, “market” rasing long-term interest rates? Either way, the idea is that rising short-term interest rates in a growing economy is required to match aggregate savings with aggregate investment,… how can that be if we have no savings?
It has been a long time since I have read about how someone has to, “fight off their wife like a lion tamer” to avoid buying a house. Was there something in the smog or was that just a common herd mentality seeking a percieved position of safety from a fight or flight condition brought on by too much additional stress as a result of the occurance of, and the (known and unknown) possible outcomes of the WTC attacks and the Iraq War II as put forth by the mainstream media and our official leaders in truth? A mad scramble to buy houses that in hindsight looked more like a deer drive to the slaughter, financial and otherwise. What average J6P and Jane SoccarZim didnt believe The President of the Federal Reserve Alan Greenspan [when he proclaimed from Jackson Hole Wyoming that now is a good time to use an a.r.m. unless you are prepaired to loose money] leaving the impression that now is THE time to buy? Run to the ditch you stupid deer. I did. I did not think it was a good idea, but I believed it was, in part because there were no government or banking officals saying otherwise. To think otherwise got one branded a terrorist, or brainlessly crazy by the general population. Before Bens Housing Bubble Blog there were very very few internet writers sounding any type of counterargument to the housing boomers. The branding is wearing thin now and popcorn sounds good. - Jmho.
Don’t wonder if “it” (a fascist takeover of the United States government) can happen here. It has happened here. This administration can wage war when, where and how it pleases, for as long as it pleases, for whatever reason it wants and - under current conditions - there is nobody in America, within or without the government, who can stop it. The US Government is effectively a dictatorship in all matters of war and peace.- Michael Nolan
A new record……a 4,000 word topic suggestion.
Clark — For future rant purposes, please note the President is the head of the executive branch of our government. The Federal Reserve Board is headed by a Chairman. And I agree that you took more than your fair share of the weekend topic suggestion blog space.
Wait, GS. I have to call foul on that one. If we add up all of your posts in a thread, I am sure that you take up more than your fair share. Don’t get me wrong, I for one am okay with that because you generally are knowledgeable and always lend something to the discussion. And often I learn something from you.
After further review, no foul on GS. I’ll take dozens of short, pithy comments by the same poster over a soul-purging marathon rant any day.
Clark, did you have to go take a nap after that post? That was a doozy my friend.
After the ass wooping you all gave him on a previous post I think he decided to go do his thesis….
OK, I hereby resign the blog.
“dictatorship”.
Right. Dictators always allow the press to slam every thing that they say and do.
Clark, should the shiny side of the foil be on the outside or inside of the hat?
They don’t call those “radiant barriers” for nothing!
Can I vote not to make this a weekend topic?
I’m having trouble connecting a hawkish fed with a facist state and just would rather discuss something else.
Got popcorn?
How about different ways to enjoy popcorn?
Pardon the length, the speech was long as well. Excuse the lack of the use of the enter key. I did not write the last pharagraph, the significance of that to the housing bubble is that if The President of the USA can go to war without Congress, surely The President of the USA can manufacture up an illusion of an FB bailout, similar to the War on Poverty. The President of the USA and not Charles I. Plosser, President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, my mistake due to time. The policy of the Federal Reserve Board IS the policy of the Chairman, and its members.
After yesterday’s HSBC and NEW bombshells, it should come as no surprise that the ABX indices took a pronounced turn for the worst, with most ’06 tranches plumbing 6 month lows:
http://www.markit.com/information/affiliations/abx
Note the pop almost all tranches enjoyed late last week, (Russ Winter’s Godfather Protection Racket?), gains which have now been completely reversed. Thanks, FCB’s, and don’t forget to grab a bigger bag on your way out the door.
Clark-with all due respect, try hitting the return key more than once to create a new paragraph.
Actually, that would have had the effect of making it longer. Clark should be looking for ways to condense, not expand.
my topic suggestion, with all the bad news in the sub-prime sector will we ever see a return to more conventional lending with the old school lending practices or are these garbage liar no doc, no money down things here to stay?
I think liar loans etc. are here to stay, because there is no way to support current home prices without them (except maybe for negative rates, you never know as Bernanke already suggested the FED could use something like that if necessary). At least in Europe, with a return to lending standards of 15 years ago, the housing market would crater (probably minus 30-75%, depending on country); and when mortgage rates revert to the norm (risk priced into the rates) it would be even worse. I guess the same goes for most of the US bubblestates.
“I think liar loans etc. are here to stay, because there is no way to support current home prices without them”
That’s not what will determine liar loan viability. Investor appetite for these loans, and the price they’re willing to pay, will determine their staying power and usage. Housing prices will be the secondary effect, one way or the other.
I agree. They’re not going away but will not be as nutty as the past few years - until the next cycle begins.
Agreed. The underwriting will probably get a bit tighter, or rather the underwriting will begin to exist.
I agree this should be a topic.
Take a look at the MBS bonds… guess what nhz, the MBS buyers don’t care if you lose $50k on your house. They do care if they lose $50k.
I expect an overcorrection.
Most low down loans will be at egregious rates or FHA (and I’m all for FHA loans).
20% down will become the norm for starters.
25%+ down will be expected for anything above starters.
Heck, we’re already seeing the sub-primes demanding 5% and 10% down payments and taking the hit in the turn rate. Ok… they’ll just lay off brokers and do less business. Oh wait, they have no choice, fewer people are buying their bonds…
In fact, looking at the MBS bond market:
http://www.eurobondonline.com/abx-HE-BBB-06-2.Htm
do-oooggggaaa! The dive alarm is sounding.
What you or I want doesn’t matter. The “invisible hand” of the free market is b%tch slapping the mortgage companies.
Or see today’s WSJ, page C14, article “Burned mortage lenders may get overly cautious.”
“The Fed’s latest survey finds that the majority of mortgage lenders are now tightening their lending standards.” ugh… oh… Oh, wait, I have a large down payment ready, so this is good for me (as long as I keep my job).
“A mortgage credit crunch would have a severe economic impact.” (really?)
Its happening folks…
Got popcorn?
Neil
“… garbage liar no doc, no money down things here to stay?”
The government’s War on Subprime continues, and the kingpins are running for the hills. No kingpins, no local dealers, no new future subprime debt addicts.
Come’on GS you’re not really a believer of that dog and pony show are you? Just what the Joe6pack needs another form to fill out after 6 mo’s of hearings.
No fast money for ever and houses never fall
If you were lending the money and all these defaults happened would you ask for tighter standards?
the people who are making the loans are not the ones lending the money …
most of the mortgage money (risk exposure) ultimately comes from big pension funds and the tax payers.
Ladies and gentlemen, your predictions please:
The 1980s “greed is good” stock bubble ended in August 1987, and a couple of years (and a stock market crash) later the unraveling led to the sudden bankruptcy of Drexel Burnham Lambert.
The 1990s “irrational exuberance” stock bubble ended in March 2000. And within a couple of years, the tech bust was punctuated by the vaporization of Enron.
The early 2000s housing bubble peaked around August 2005. And within the next few months…
Learah gets a sex change and becomes the new president of the National Organization for Women.
And his next book title will be: “Why Your Bust is Crucial for the Real Estate Boom - And How You Can Profit from It”
ROFLOL!
Dang nabit! That was too funny. I now have coffee all over my WSJ (thankfully I spared the laptop).
Got popcorn?
Neil
NOW THAt was funny
lol
And Leslie Appleton-Young gets a sex change, changes his name to to Lester Appleton-Young, and assumes his new duty as chief economist for the NAR.
…the insolvency rate across the country soared to levels unseen in decades.
We’re already there, but watch for credit card debt go through the roof now that the housing ATM has been “shut down for repairs”. Americans have an insatiable need for consumption, and like any addict, the short term need always trumps the long term consequences.
You know, that’s interesting. I just had two cards give me significant unprompted credit line increases in January. Since I keep low balances on these cards the net effect is tick upward in my FICO score. I’m wondering if they’re doing this on a larger scale to milk cardholders that have their tails in a crack from ARM resets or layoffs…
immigration laws are changed…
too much slack, gotta ramp up the population numbers to balance the overbuilding.
And for Valentines day: how will the housing bust affect romance?
Will be see personals that read “FB seeks GF to avoid jingle mail?”
Will an Option-Arm be as unattractive as a trust fund is attractive?
Will the perennial fight among divorcing couples — who gets the house — have a whole new twist?
“who gets the house?”
LOL. While counseling my FB buddy Bob he said his wife could have the house and dog. I LMAO b/c their expenses exceeded their combined incomes and there is no way she can make the payments.
But that don’t mean ya walks away from the debt obligation, cowboy. Cue the twangy guitars . . . he might be in a diaper speeding down I-10 soon enough . . .
Exactly. Who agrees to pay 8 + pct on an ARM primary during record low interest rates (july/aug 2005) and combines it with a piggy back second with a balloon pmt for the full amount at the end of the term?!?
Ouch!, he must have been what is called a credit bandit. He had no business buying the house if his credit was that horrible.
Will be see personals that read “FB seeks GF to avoid jingle mail?”
Sure, especially if the intended victim doesn’t know which kind of GF is meant!
What reforms will be driven by the housing crisis? and who will go to jail?
More cynically, which of the current gaseous windbags (i.e., Presidential candidates) has the best schtick, voting record, cred, to ride this beast to the White House? I’d have a hard time guessing at this point.
good one, snort, Rudy will claim he “protected” nyc’s values!!!
I say Mayor Rudi. Not the front runner now, but I would not be surprised if he is still standing at the end.
Or we might end up with GWB under martial law.
Ouch!
“Or we might end up with GWB under martial law.”
I would say either before this President leaves office, or some time during the next President’s tenure, that there is a 20% of that happening. Especially if the sh*t really hits the fan from an economic standpoint and the middle class’ ranks are seriously reduced. Which is scary to think.
That’s it!……I’m diggin’ a hole in the backyard and stocking up on emergency supplies!
As we enter the insolvency boom, how long would it take disgusted FBs and specuvestors to regain their appetite and ability to buy homes and investments?
A bit longer than it will take prices to bottom out below affordable levels by traditional qualification standards (not New Era subprime qualification standards, such as “If you can breath, you qualify for a loan to buy a $500K home.”)
I don’t think the FBs and current specuvestors will be back. No one will lend to them.
Housing will in the end be purchased by legit first time homeowners and grave dancers who sat out the bubble. There may need to be some kind of federal gurantee to get lenders to give mortgages to even them.
BTW, the WSJ said today that Fannie and Freddie are only 40% of the secondary mortgage market right now.
IActually WT, there’s someone else I’ve been wondering about in regards to future buyers. Maybe topic-worthy?
It’s a global market…a difference from the ‘29 crash.
Does that mean we should be prepared to have our businesses and other real estate bought up by foreign interests on the cheap?
That would be ironic since foreigners are the ones providing most of the funding for all the overpriced homes.
Well, in the 1980s commercial real estate boom, the Japanese bought at the top and sold at the bottom.
Need a new generation….15 to 20 years from now.
let me modify that… there will be investors when they can run 25% positive cash flow (above all expenses and vacancy expectation) with 10-20% down.
next round of lemmings?…when we have the next generation who thinks they are smarter than their parents and grandparents.
What about a discussion on private equity firms… These guys are flippers on a massive scale,using leveraged money to buy, “fix” and flip companies. What will be the endgame for these entities?
I thought Apple’s board had exonerated the CEO from blame in the options postdating scandal. Why won’t these stories just go away?
——————————————————————————————–
Pixar Pay Package to Lasseter Included Well-Timed Options
By Steve Stecklow
Word Count: 1,266 | Companies Featured in This Article: Walt Disney, Apple
Steve Jobs helped negotiate an employment contract with a top film director that included a large stock-options grant with an especially well-timed date, according to a person familiar with the matter.
The options grant, part of a 2001 employment contract reached between Pixar Inc. and noted animated-film director John Lasseter, carried the lowest share price of the previous year — on a date more than three months before the employment contract was actually signed. Mr. Jobs, then Pixar’s chairman and chief executive, signed the agreement on behalf of Pixar.
It remains unclear what role, if any, Mr. Jobs played in …
I read this week that Jobs has hired a law firm to defend him against SEC stuff coming down the pike.
“adjusting” the Corporate Records Book is common practice. All the way from J6P’s tiny little hometown S-Corp to the publicly traded goliaths.
Jobs skates with clean nose. Perhaps a slap on the wrist, and a public service announcement to teach him a lesson.
“I thought Apple’s board had exonerated the CEO from blame in the options postdating scandal. Why won’t these stories just go away?”
So much shameless corruption, from corporate boardrooms to executive branch government.
Absent government intervention, the subprime meltdown would most certainly lead to a hard landing, as home prices would need to fall by a large percentage across the US to rediscover the end-user bid. So a government bailout looks like it is in the bag. I am wondering what form it will take, and how they will communicate it so stupid people don’t realize they are being coerced into paying for other stupid people’s stupidity.
I think the government is way behind the curve with bailout money. They are too busy fixing the numbers and trying to convince the masses everything is fine. And if they are not fixing the numbers, they are still busy spending boom dollars.
GetStucco….I am curious about this assertion. It assumes that the subprime segment is a huge segment of the recent home-buying market. Do you have any data on this? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just curious.
I believe the subprime bid set prices for California over the past few years. But this is just a theory (like the Theory of Evolution is just a theory)…
Long time reader, but less frequently since having a baby this fall. If this has already been discussed, my apologies…
How often do real estate agents have to renew their licenses? Is it yearly? Is there any way to track the number of lapsed licenses in the coming months/years?
My dad and I were discussing the costs that agents are incurring while not selling houses (newspaper ads, gas money, etc.). How many of them are going to walk away and not even keep their credentials up-to-date because they realize there is no real money to be made in the foreseeable future and instead they are losing it hand over fist?
Sallie;….In Cali., Lic renewal every 4 years….40 hours of continuing education required for renewal but that is pretty much hollow since you can do it on line….Anyone “Active’ in the business will have Local, State & National dues & fees…As far as tracking renewals I am not sure….I can tell you this given my past experience, 20% of the licenses make 80% of the money…In downturns like the one we are experiencing most of those low end earners will renew their license but stop participating in the business….
sub prime implosion- no matter
stocks up- interest rate reaction= 0
I wondered the same thing. Yesterday seemed like a day of infamy…then today was so normal. WTF?
Disregard previous comment sub-primes are back to crash and burn mode.
The stock market wealth effect is a poor substitute for the housing market wealth effect. Despite the 401(K) revolution, stock market wealth is too-heavily concentrated at the top of the income distribution. By contrast, the housing market reverse wealth effect implied by the subprime implosion is huge, especially considering how many low income households were persuaded to drink the subprime koolaide.
A topic worth considering is a roundup of internet sites devoted to the housing bubble and how the internet is influencing the mass psychology of the RE market.
How about a discussion about those of us who are waiting to buy — I’m one of them and I am getting a bit discouraged. I passed on a great house (for me) that really wasn’t overpriced that much (and the person that bought it got it for 10% less than asking). By the time I figured out I wanted the house (I had just moved here) it was gone. I’ve also become so gun shy about buying that I feel like I won’t recognize a deal when I see it anymore. I know some houses are sitting on the market here with no one even looking at them, but the only two that I have considered both sold within a few months at about 10% off.
Any suggestions of criteria for fence sitters to get off the fence? If I were still in the SF Bay Area the answer would be easy — the prices are so ridiculous there I won’t buy again unless I hit the Lotto jackpot. But in less pricey areas, where there has still been lots of run up but the prices are much, much lower how do we make our decision of when to buy? [I'm in the midwest now.]
Also, what about building instead of buying? When does that make sense (assuming you can’t find an existing home that you like)?
I hope other people are interested in this topic and willing to put forth their suggetions, comments, insights.
” I passed on a great house (for me) that really wasn’t overpriced that much ”
Check out the previous prices of the house on zillow. If the pre-bubble (pre-2000) price + 4% a year for inflation is much less than the current asking price, than it’s still overpriced. Housing sticks to inflation over the long term.
No Zillow in hillbilly country.
“For some cry ‘quick’ and some cry ’slow’…” Alfred, Lord Tennyson
I’ll cry slow
“Any suggestions of criteria for fence sitters to get off the fence?”
Just look at the current and historical rental rates, and compare them to the monthly payment minus the 20% down.
good point
I am in a similar situation, and I use a timeline rather than prices as my guide. I will buy
- after ARM have reset and this has been discussed in the MSM
- lending standards have returned to pre-bubble for some time (to have an impression on the market)
Before 2009, I won’t buy. Renting for two years isn’t bad, because my children are small.
With ARM, I meant option mortgages or exotic mortgages. Those should be exceptions for exceptional people, like doctors or lawyers fresh out of school. I have nothing against amortizing ARMs, on them I agree with Greenspan.
Topic suggestion:
Potential bailouts. What will they do? Who will they effect (positively and negatively)?
Lawyers and accountants. Workout professionals. Realtors who specialize in packaging and selling wholesale.
Gold Haiku:
Four nines fine
purer than from the mine
you’ll save me, in these fiat times
Here’s my topic suggestion:
I am a renter in a good neighborhood in Los Angeles. There are many vacant homes in this area, some of them are probably flips-gone-wrong. A few of the vacant homes have recently had “for rent” signs out front. I am tempted. But if the owner bought intending to flip, and is now forced to look for tenants because he/she can’t sell, then the risk of foreclosure is high and being a renter in such a home is risky. I’d like to know what this group thinks. I know the laws regarding tenants in foreclosed properties vary depending on locale. I’ve heard some real horror stories - like long term stable renters kicked out by the bank after foreclosure, just to make the place easier to auction. Will we be seeing a lot of that this year? If the property is managed by a management company does that provide the renter with any extra protection? What if the lender has already imploded - who will be foreclosing and taking possession? However this plays out, it seems likely that the rental market will suffer plenty of collateral damage from the bursting of the housing bubble.
> If the property is managed by a management company does that provide the renter with any extra protection?
Protection for the renter’s deposit, Yes, if the management owns the account; protection from the next owner, No. On the other hand, a good renter provides a bank with some cash-flow at least, and you might negotiate a short-term lease with them.
Topic: Where has all that money gone?
If this is as much a Ponzi scheme as most on this blog believes, where is that money that trickeled to the top? In the stockmarket? In hedgefunds? In private accounts waiting for the bust? In SUVs, flatpanels and Humvees?