“That Flipping Thing Is Kind Of Over”
The Kansas City Star reports from Missouri. “Here’s how bad the housing market is getting across metropolitan Kansas City: Doug and Cathy Cade are offering a new car or a trip to Hawaii for anyone who buys their five-bedroom Shawnee house for the asking price. And they haven’t had a taker. ‘It’s kind of a down market,’ Cathy Cade said.”
“Last year, the average resale price of existing homes declined in almost half, 44 percent, of almost 100 ZIP codes tracked by The Star in the six-county area. ‘The market has been going up and up and up, and what goes up must come down,’ said agent Sue Walton.”
“For much of the rest of the area, however, plenty of sellers have gone through what the Cades are finding: The easy days of real estate speculating appear over.”
“The Cades are investors and bought the 3,600-square-foot home out of foreclosure. They intended to flip it quickly after some cosmetic repairs. They tried an advertising blitz capped by a local auction. But the bids were too low. That’s when they added the special incentives for a full-price.”
“The Plaza area was littered with sales in which sellers lost money or came way down in price. One two-story house off 53rd Street and Brookside Boulevard went on the market at $330,000 before eventually selling at $182,500. Another house just a block off Loose Park sold in 2004 for $472,500, then resold last year for $465,000.”
“‘There was too much on the market, and the people who had to sell just kept reducing,’ said agent Pat Tholen.”
“Several Realtors said they noticed investors bailing out of real estate because they were no longer able to turn quick profits. ‘That flipping thing is kind of over,’ said broker Judy Comstock. ‘It’s no longer the in thing to do.’”
“That may be the case, but investors still have properties they are trying to unload.”
“Consider Teresa Doherty. She and her husband are stuck with a three-bedroom ranch near the University of Kansas Medical Center in Kansas City, Kan. It has been on the market more than four months.”
“She put the house on the MLS. She put ads on the medical center’s Web site and on Craigslist. She even put the house up for auction on eBay. But that auction has generated only a lowball offer so far. ‘I know it’s a slow market like this all over the city,’ Doherty said.”
The Springfield Business Journal from Missouri. “The FBI is investigating alleged mortgage fraud schemes in the Springfield area, some of which may be driving a spike in foreclosures on homes sold to unsuspecting buyers at inflated prices.”
“The real estate community is buzzing with speculation about disproportionately high list prices in some subdivisions and an upsurge in foreclosures – two signs often associated with mortgage fraud.”
“Carol Jones Realtor LeeAnn Quinn said a handful of conspicuously priced properties caught her attention several months ago. ‘They stuck out like a sore thumb,’ Quinn said. ‘I did show a house that possibly I thought might be in that (alleged scheme). It was sold at a price, and it was bought a few months later at a higher price … quite a bit higher.’”
“Quinn said less scrupulous real estate agents or builders may have turned to illicit tactics when the housing market began showing signs of a slowdown last year. Foreclosures in Missouri increased 96.5 percent in 2006, according Foreclosures.com.”
From Chicago Business. “Illinois’ housing market ended 2006 on a low note and housing experts are forecasting modest gains, if any, for this year. ‘We had a year of contraction,’ said Pat Callan, treasurer for the Realtors’ association. ‘But I think we’ve seen the worst.’”
“Paul Kasriel, economist for Northern Trust Bank, is less optimistic, given the excess supply of new and existing homes. ‘Sales are still going to be sluggish,’ he said. ‘It’s going to be another year of recession in housing.’”
“‘Builders are abandoning land now and that indicates they are not expecting to start a lot of new homes,’ he said. ‘Construction is going to continue to weaken.’”
The Chicago Sun Times. “Robert Kelter was watching a football game when he noticed water dripping from the ceiling into the living room. Kelter, who had paid $405,000 for his 2-bedroom condo in 2001, had no idea the water drip would turn into a potential $100,000 expense because of alleged major structural problems in the building. But it did. And he’s not alone.”
“A legal expert says the jaw-dropping extra assessments result from a perfect storm of condo conversion circumstances: A lack of oversight by the city, buyers with stars in their eyes and little information and developers who claim they have no assets to correct defects after they sell the condos.”
“Loft condos in old factories and warehouses are in vogue. But the buildings are complicated to convert into residential uses, and pose unique maintenance problems, said Mark Pearlstein, the attorney who has filed lawsuits against the developers at both sites. ‘The owners have to realize that they’ve bought into an old building,’ Pearlstein said.”
“Pearlstein said buyers have the mistaken impression that city inspectors will guard against shoddy construction. ‘There is no effective government oversight of construction or renovation in the city,’ Pearlstein said.”
The Business Ledger from Illinois. “Most experts in the industry agree the housing boom has come to an end but differ as to whether the landing will be hard or soft. Take a deep breath and relax, says Lori Palmer, a realtor in Bartlett. There was, indeed, a housing bubble, but the explosion was more of a pop than a burst. ‘There was a correction that was definitely needed,’ said Palmer.”
“‘Buyers now think they can go out and get houses for bargain prices because the media has said it’s a buyer’s market. Sellers are not necessarily desperate to sell. They prefer to sit and wait for six months or even a year, rather than take a loss on the sale of their home,’ said Palmer. ‘It’s become a stalemate,’ she said. ‘Who’s gonna blink first?’”
“Palmer stressed that a seller shouldn’t have to take a loss on the sale of his home just because a buyer wants a deal.”
“Developers like The Macom Corporation in Naperville agree there has been somewhat of a burst in the housing bubble. It hasn’t affected Macom in a real big way, but the company has slowed down in developing the high-end subdivisions. There isn’t a big demand right now for lots.”
“S.J. Peters, executive director of the Plumbing and Mechanical Contractors Association of Northern Illinois, echoes Van Poucke’s sentiments. ‘There’s definitely a housing bubble and it has burst, but the residential seems to be bouncing back,’ said Peters. ‘It seems to go in cycles.’”
“In the meantime, professionals in industries related to development and real estate are not panicking. They know it’s just the natural cycle of economics. The bubble may have just popped or even burst, but they’re still standing.”
‘That flipping thing is kind of over,’ said broker Judy Comstock. ‘It’s no longer the in thing to do.’”
This is just like a “system” for stock trading. It works until it doesn’t.
Nice dig.
not HIVtv flip that house UPDATED ”
a deal from 2-3 years ago
they call that updated
I still see posts on boards from people who want to flip houses. The main diference is that a lot of the other posters will now tell them about the housing bubble.
The fact that anyone would be thinking they can flip a house right now is just amazing.
Why?
The MSM “news” reporting is barely starting to cover the situation. Entertainment TV is much further behind. Watch any of the home TV networkds and you will see why. These networks are filled with shows about people fixing up and selling houses. Everyone is all happy faces. Nevermind they never report the actual sale results, fail to mention realtor commision costs, shows were shot in 2005, etc. It’s like a parallel universe.
Check their sponsors … if the sponsor makes bucks by folks fixing up their house, yard or furnishings … well … you get the drift.
The fact that anyone would be thinking they can flip a house right now is just amazing.
Why, well RE can still go UP you know, UP UP UP and away…wheeeeeeeeeee!!!!
OK here it is: the rant that has been coming.
Just got off the phone with well-meaning friend, pumping me about my house-hunting. I told her I’ve been doing internet research, etc. Conclusion: now is not the time to buy. (I neglected to mention that I just accessed the NCC website that showed a 40% spread, yes 40% - between the low and high of Phila. metro RE prices. Between peak and valley of course. Historically.)
But that certainly was enough info to give me pause.
Anyway back to conversation. Me: I’ll rent for the next ten years if I have to.
Her: Right, that’s if prices go down…but what if they go UP?????
Me: What’s going to make them go UP?????”
Her: I don’t know…but, but people are still buying houses!!!!!
Me: Who’s buying houses?
Her: So-and-so, he’s a 30 yr. old kid he just bought a $500k house in “Tacky McManor Nouveau FB Ridings”.
Me: Did he put 20% down?
Her: I don’t know how he bought it…in fact I don’t even know how he could afford it!
So she basically admitted that there’s an affordability issue, during the same spiel when she’s trying to scare me into buying a house. AND SHE’S NOT EVEN A REALTOR!
OK so maybe I’m not in the same situation as that 30 year old kid, and I can “afford” a house at current market prices. Suppose I don’t want to throw $25 - 30,000 down the pisser. Fcuk you lady, have you heard me advising you to take 40 or 50 grand of you and your husband’s stash, pile it up in your driveway, douse it with lighter fluid and strike a match? Heck no. I really appreciate how everybody’s an expert with my stinkin’ money.
NOT.
/rant off
As another poster warned, “Don’t play chicken with sub-primers. They have nothing to lose but you do.”
I really appreciate how everybody’s an expert with my stinkin’ money.
Amen.
(And if it’s such a goddamned deal, then go be an expert with your own money, not mine.)
Thank you. That’s the approach I’ll take from now on:
“OK go and buy 14 condos downtown and then six years from now you can gloat from the summit of your Megabucks Mountain as you sneer at my reluctance to jump on the gravy train in the Spring of 2007. I’ll be the Biggest RE Dumbass in the World, and happy to accept that title.”
“So she basically admitted that there’s an affordability issue, during the same spiel when she’s trying to scare me into buying a house.”
Some people do this to validate their own decisions on buying a house- misery loves company.
Yep, just like getting married and/or having kids, a friend of mine always says.
Good rant!!
Did you actually say that to her or just thought it?
I have similar stories to tell, it boils down to misery loves company and your friend hates the idea that you have good business sense and can see that you are right. She knows you are about to save a ton of money and she can not stand it as She is about to lose a pile of paper money and she can not stand it.
Tough s-h-i-t lady.
SKB
I actually said it to her, and even edited conversation for posting. (I went off on the whole thing about the neg-am financing implosion).
OMG I just remembered something though - you and Beer/Cigar guy hit the nail dead center. About the misery loving company thing. This woman’s husband is a contractor/builder. Last time we visited she related how the last house he built is not selling. I guess from the tone of her remarks to me - the house hasn’t sold yet!
Her husband is an old-timer goombah, a contractor who has weathered many storms. I’m sure they’ll be OK. I guess she’s just pi$$ed they’re not going to bank the megaprofits she had anticipated. Instead of a 30% margin she’ll have to settle for 10.
“Goombah” Oh, I love it. LOL
Good for you for saying exactly what you were thinking. I need balls like that.
SKB
To clarify - I didn’t tell the woman to flip off…she’s actually a longtime family friend. It’s just that this RE “boom” scenario is causing folks to deviate from their norm…have you noticed? Other posters describe friends or family who are realtors but not really trustworthy. And someone commented about being subjected to “realtor pounce”. What a great description. Not only realtor pounce, but realtor’s sister pounce, realtor’s realtor pounce…etc. In this instance I had to fend off “builder’s wife pounce”.
I have the feeling this isn’t going to go away anytime soon.
Realtor pounce - LOL. I know the feeling. The last couple of open houses I went to, as soon as I walked in the door - the only traffic all morning - they were on me like E-Coli on undercooked hamburger. I still shudder to think of it.
Speaking of flip attempts, there’s one just up the street from Arizona Slim’s Tucson Headquarters. It has been on the market for nine months.
This flip-attempt’s mailbox has been down on the ground for two months. (I think some wisenheimer ripped the mailbox off its post.) And, to make matters worse, the mailbox post was pushed over sometime last month.
In short, it’s a house that’s owned by a caring and attentive investor. A real “Honey, stop the car!” special.
I first saw the Sun Times article on a local Chicago RE cheerleader site. The founder of the site, who has had his RE blinders permanantly fastened to his head said, “Speaking as someone who’s been there, it takes a lot more than $100k to make my jaw drop…”
http://yochicago.com/today/lofts/when-should-an-industrial-building-not-be-converted-to-lofts_4044/#comments
Good for him that $100,000 bill is nothing more than annoyance but that would but most of the population in a dire financial situation.
I know a couple in one of the buildings ‘featured’ in that Sun-Times article. It is not a happy situation.
330k to 182k is an impressive haircut even by spoiled evil doc standards.
‘The market has been going up and up and up, and what goes up must come down…’
Classic and too late for a lot of buyers. But maybe NAR can use this as the headline in their next ad campaign.
“In the meantime, professionals in industries related to development and real estate are not panicking. They know it’s just the natural cycle of economics. The bubble may have just popped or even burst, but they’re still standing.”
Not panicing… yet. When the rules for sub-prime mortgages changes and their volume goes down another 30% to 40%… and brokerage commisions get cut (on a per mortgage bases)… and agents find they must sell their flips to meet cash flow needs. Then they’ll panic.
Thus I don’t doubt. How few have a master’s degree or other training that lets them hunt out trends?
Got popcorn?
Neil
Another quote from a lemming like Darwinomist claiming there is no spillage. Try selling that cr@p to lumber and construction workers.
I’ll give it 18 months to reach that point. Pass the popcorn
My builder friend who does have a master’s degree isn’t panicking, but he has other sources of income…and he’s prepared to wait a few years before building again.
“Pearlstein said buyers have the mistaken impression that city inspectors will guard against shoddy construction. ‘There is no effective government oversight of construction or renovation in the city,’ Pearlstein said.”
So what is it exactly, that these so-called city “inspectors” do? I built an addition on my house, and these guys were a royal pain. In the end, however, I think their only real purpose is to confirm the improvement is complete so that the municipality can raise the assessment and hence the taxes on the property.
bingo, taxes
my county does heliocapter fly overs to check rooflines
Higher assessments in Chicago don’t translate into higher taxes for the county. The system here uses the assessments to figure out the percentage of the overall tax each property owner pays. The system to figure how much to collect in taxes is separate.
Turning a blind eye to inspections isn’t very profitable for the city. In fact, the zoning in the city is intentionally low so you can’t build much without needing bonuses. The building codes spell out lots and lots of size bonuses that you get for “donating” money to various city funds. For example, Donald Trump gave $18 million to the city Parks Department in order to build his skyscraper downtown next to hundreds of other skyscrapers.
The city rakes in more money by watching development like a hawk, which is why I believe these incidents are a matter of the developers successfully hiding the shoddy work and defects and not a matter of the city not caring.
More like checking out the hotties sunbathing in the nude in their backyards.
Pearlstein is a big shot lawyer in the my-house-broke-and-I’m-mad-as-hell market here in Chicago. He’s just drumming up business.
The city inspectors are just fine, but they can only inspect what they know to inspect. If the engineering report filed with the city doesn’t mention a new roof, the inspector has no business poking around the roof. If the warrant says the cops think you’re growing drugs in your basement, they’d have a nice lawsuit on their hands if they tear apart your attic looking for some stolen merchandise.
At any given time over the last few years there were thousands of projects going on inside the city. Some developers thought they could slip through the cracks and not bother with building permits, engineering reports and occupancy permits. Some got away with it and some are only now being discovered.
Excerpt from the clout in hiring scandal.
Another case involved the 19-year-old son of a high-ranking union official, who allegedly was hired as a building inspector in 2004 because of his connections. An embarrassed Daley said at the time that the city was duped and Andrew Ryan was fired for falsifying his job application.
But prosecutors alleged that top officials in Intergovernmental Affairs pushed to hire Ryan, son of a Carpenters Union Local 13 leader. Christopher Kozicki, the Buildings Department’s managing deputy commissioner with 11th Ward Democratic ties, allegedly revised his score for Ryan’s job interview, giving him a higher rating so he would qualify to be hired. Kozicki is among officials given immunity from prosecution in return for their cooperation.
Stan Kaderbek, who was then Buildings Commissioner, told Kozicki that hiring Ryan and another young, unqualified son of a union official “would help in maintaining good relations” with the union, authorities said.
When we moved to Naperville and I heard about all the financial scandals in Cook county I said to my husband “they might just call it Crook county”
They’ve been calling it Crook County for as long as I’ve been alive and that’s 35 years.
And that is after they cleaned it up when they repealed prohibition…
I don’t understand why people insist on giving crap away to sell their house.
Give away a plasma TV and the millions of Americans that have already jumped on the HDTV bandwagon yawn.
Give away a new car and the millions of Americans that already have new cars don’t care.
Give away a trip to Hawaii and the millions of Americans that have no time for a vacation roll their eyes.
Who’s bright idea was it to further restrict your pool of buyers at a time when selling is at its hardest? Perhaps a price drop could do the unthinkable - and increase the number of people willing to take a look!
Not to mention that, in FL at least, you get to pay property taxes on that TV, car and vacation for the life of your property.
Anybody who takes any incentive at all in S. FL is just out of their minds. Why on earth would you want to pay taxes on your stupid plasma TV for the rest of your natural life??
So stupid. Just blows the mind. Anyone with half a brain down here would hand over a suitcase with the downpayment in it to lower the price, then take a 100% financing deal. If you can knock 60K of taxable value off the home; that can really, really add up. Then just get it reassesed and move into a complying loan product.
Duh.
There is a major disincentive to reduce prices; A price reduction will drop the prices of all the comps. These giveaway-goodies effectively reduce the price without announcing a price reduction, thus maintaining the illusion that prices are remaining stable.
“”There is a major disincentive to reduce prices; A price reduction will drop the prices of all the comps.”
Yeah, but … If I’m an individual seller, I don’t give a &*%$# whether reducing the price to sell my house will drop the prices of all comps. Why should I care? I just want to get my house sold, the best, fastest way possible.
Yes, if you are an individual trying to sell then you don’t care what happens to the comps. But if you’ve got a bunch of properties to dump then you’ve got to maintain price stability. And there are lots of developers that have a bunch to dump, hence the goodies.
“But if you’ve got a bunch of properties to dump…”
thanks combotechie for pointing this out. makes so much more sense now!
My point is … there are enough individual sellers (likely ones who have owned for years and have lots of equity and plenty of room to lower the price) who may get desperate enough to sell and are not going to play around with offering free vacations to Hawaii. They will drop the price until it sells if they have to. It only takes a few individual desperate sellers to lower the comps drastically for a whole area. The builders, investors and real estate agents don’t have a whole lot of control over that.
Not only do you pay mortgage interest and taxes on those non-house goodies, but 6% of the goodies price goes to the real estate agent. Also, buidlers like to throw in a $25K basement upgrade in order to maintin the price at $50K higher.
Nice racket they got there.
“So stupid. Just blows the mind. Anyone with half a brain down here would hand over a suitcase with the downpayment in it to lower the price, then take a 100% financing deal. If you can knock 60K of taxable value off the home; that can really, really add up. Then just get it reassesed and move into a complying loan product”.
Is that legal? It sounds like a brilliant idea if it is.
SKB
The only incentive I want is; a floor safe built into the slab, stuffed with 100k in cash.
Plus, wouldn’t those incentives basically amount to the typical “cash back at closing” fraud?
I know, let’s pay interest on my Hawaii vacation for 30 years, and commit fraud at the same time!
I’m not sure how that works. My guess is the Hawaii trip or car should be fraud, but the HDTV might be OK. Consider it an appliance, just like a dishwasher or refrigerator.
Unfortunately, in most states it is not fraud if the incentive goes to the buyer. It’s only fraud if the “incentive” goes to the seller. Seems as it should be the same, though.
maybe these sellers have some other properties to flip and are afraid they might disturb the statistics it they really lower the asking price instead of offering incentives?
How stupid do sellers think buyers are?
Reminds me of the new Doritos commercial where the boyfriend gives a stuffed Otter to the Father in exchange for his daughters hand in marriage. The Father smiles and says “OK”.
As if we are going to smile and say “OK” to their stupid “free” cars, lower your prices fools.
IMO incentives have to be disclosed to the lender/appraiser so they can determine if the incentives or cash backs affect the appraisal value/loan of the home . For instance ,if you have to give away 50k in incentives to sell a 500k home ,than the house might only be worth 450k . That would mean that the lender needs to lower the loan amount or that lender might be giving a 110% loan . It goes without saying that the cash-backs to a buyer or seller (without lender approval ) is fraud . Trips, cars ,cash ,even paying the homeowners fees all have a cash value , so they have to be disclosed to the lender to see if it affects the loan amount . In general ,lenders use to approve of minor incentives like paying for closing costs ,or paying for some repairs to the property ,but recent incentives are totally out of hand .
That’s a very good point, but I wonder if some of these sellers are too short-sighted to realize this. I mean, they probably think that since the property appraised at $500k last year that selling it for $459k + car isn’t an issue. They’re so reluctant to lower prices they must think their home is worth more than what they are asking for it.
It doesn’t matter what the seller thinks ,what matters is what the lender thinks . I’m sure there has been some harmless incentives by some sellers who were unaware of the disclosure requirement to the lender ,but the REIC is well aware of the disclosure requirements .
SHHHHH!!! Don’t let the cat out of the bag, that the incentives, which help to keep the prices too high, are also restricting sales. Someone might actually be able to buy them if they just lowered the price to a reasonable level.
“Palmer stressed that a seller shouldn’t have to take a loss on the sale of his home just because a buyer wants a deal.”
Yeah, why should the seller take a loss for being stupid?
That statement just cracks me up.
Perhaps Ms. Palmer should put her commission where her mouth is.
What commission? She is going to starve. If buyers are looking for a deal, why spend time and financial resources listing sellers that are unable OR unwilling to make a deal. Smart realtors are mining their markets to identify sellable property and ignoring the upside-downers AND don’t-want-to-sellers.
“Smart realtors are mining their markets to identify sellable property and ignoring the upside-downers AND don’t-want-to-sellers. ”
Don’t ignore the upside-downers. The banks are more quick to offer a quick sale now than ever if they are behind. Used to be a foreclosure would be competeing with very few homes and the bank only had to throw a 10% discount on there to make it sell after foreclosure. Now they’re shaking.
Hmm, that’s interesting. I was browsing the listings the other day and came across a gorgeous 1901 greystone divided into 4 condos almost exactly in the neighborhood we want. The city zoning site shows it well-placed on a good lot, the virtual tour shows the interior looking like it was immaculately maintained, but in need of, oh, say $5k worth of “remodeling” to suit our style. Asking price was about $420k, which I thought was ridiculous, so I looked at the county records. Purchased in late 2001 for $325k and then purchased again in 2004 for $368k by a guy with a $331,200 loan. The bank recorded a lawsuit referencing the mortgage about 4 months ago and the condo has been on the market for 3 weeks. I’m assuming that the bank is going to have a deed recorded “any day now.”
It’s Wells Fargo, BTW. You really think they would be open to an offer of $275-300 once the deed is in their hands, just to be rid of it?
When dealing with banks it’s a good idea to throw numbers at them in my opinion. If you want to pay 275K, throw $250K at them. It’s kind of hard to irritate a bank like a normal seller. They have no emotional connection to it.
Remember folks, the fair market price of a house is defined as what a willing buyer and seller would accept, as long as such a value does not cause a loss for the seller.
“Palmer stressed that a BUYER shouldn’t have to take a loss on the PURCHASE of his home just because a SELLER wants a deal.”
It must have been a misprint………
I’d like to be the first to step up and hit her up the side of the face with a frozen cod fish!
Sorry but that position has been take by Txchic.
It was dfinitely 20 lbs. But was it a frozen trout? Would salmon work as well? -
Actually, there will be neither buyer nor seller. Just a screwed owner getting BS from his delusional realtor while he goes further upside down.
“Palmer stressed that a seller shouldn’t have to take a loss on the sale of his home just because a buyer wants a deal.”
The obvious inverse of that is that creditworthy buyers are under no compunction to accomodate a greedy seller. Time is on our side, not theirs.
I hate to see buisnesses like developers pulling the same stuff over and over. I think if you find major defects like this you should be able to sue the developers personally as well as the company. The goverment makes it to easy to seal everything off behind having things incorporated. Everyone develops something then development company is bankrupt. Everytime.
Makes me sick to see it again.
Either that or make the LLC put up a big bond or other source of cash that can be used to pay future claims. Possibly ease this requirement for companies that are more established with greater assets and therefore have more to lose already. More credibility should be required for someone to be able to build a massive project that buyers are paying the majority of their income to purchase.
“‘Buyers now think they can go out and get houses for bargain prices because the media has said it’s a buyer’s market. Sellers are not necessarily desperate to sell. They prefer to sit and wait for six months or even a year, rather than take a loss on the sale of their home,’ said Palmer. ‘It’s become a stalemate,’ she said. ‘Who’s gonna blink first?’”
Not me.
I find out about a seller who prefers to wait six months to a year, and I’m not even going to waste the time to look at their house, since it’s not really for sale.
The seller. Count on it.
I can wait.. Well, forever for the prices to come down. I spend less then 10% of my HH income on housing, and have plenty of money in the bank and investments. Trust me, you will blink first.
You need to move, not me.
Agreed. Quality rental units are plentiful and more are being built. There’s a whole booming market right now of apartments targeting the “people that can afford to buy but choose to rent” crowd. Rents are kept down by flippers putting condos on the rental market.
All in all, I can continue renting for the foreseeable future at less than half the cost of buying. The sad part is that my current apartment is nicer than a lot of the condos I’ve looked at. Those owners are delusional.
The only thing that worries me is that the really nice condos still sell so fast I’m afraid I might never grab hold of one.
Agreed that the cost of renting right now in Chicago is so much cheaper than buying, especially when you consider quality. I think it remains to be seen what direction the housing market will move in Chicago, particularly in Chicago proper. Increasing inventories, fewer sales, but so far steady prices…
Amen, Brother Mike. The current standoff can’t and won’t last, as irresistable forces are at work sweeping away the underpinnings of the housing bubble. Patience has never been one of my virtues, but in this case, I’ve got all the time in the world to wait till our time comes around.
I see these jokers relisting their houses 3, 4 times and more. Some houses have pretty much been for sale more than a year and some of them with multiple price reductions. Sometimes they even increase the price. Haha, yeah that’s why it didn’t sell, the price was too damn low!
The houses I don’t bother looking at are basically anything bought after 2003. Most of the sellers paid too much and have no room to bargain. A lot of the sellers are already in foreclosure. I see these houses listed as bank owned with nearly a 100k price reduction and they are still sitting on the market nearly 6 months later.
Time is most definitely on my side. The way I see many of these sellers have to sell. Nobody has to buy. They can ride this thing straight to the bottom for all I care.
“…‘It’s become a stalemate,’ she said. ‘Who’s gonna blink first?’”
I’ve got a news flash for you lady. It is no longer a stalemate. The market is full of substitutions with tons more on the way. Stock up on the Ramens before fellow realtors make a run on them.
lol
said Palmer. ‘It’s become a stalemate,’ Noooo. It’s Checkmate to the seller. Buyer wins.
“Palmer [a realtor] stressed that a seller shouldn’t have to take a loss on the sale of his home just because a buyer wants a deal.”
That is not regular stupid. That is trained stupid. No one is born this stupid. You’ve got to sit through many get rich quick no money down courses to get this stupid.
How is Palmer going to make any money if her clients do not want to OR are unable to lower the price of their homes? Why even list non-reducable non-sellable properties? She is going to starve.
“That is not regular stupid. That is trained stupid. No one is born this stupid. You’ve got to sit through many get rich quick no money down courses to get this stupid…She is going to starve.”
Darwin strikes again!
I bet there are a lot of former Amway reps peddling this sort of line.
lol
Gosh! I really, really want her as my buyer’s agent! Get me a house with a new 61″ plasma TV, new Mercedes included, and a free (right) trip to Europe. I can’t wait to pay your overpriced seller by giving you 6% (actually 3% unless you represent both sides) on the perks and paying taxes on them until I move or die. I will make sure your are a Realtor with the little TM on your pin.
It’s also OK to charge me for up to 3 or 4 appraisal fees if the first ones don’t hit the mark.
LOL
Just got back from Florida (ft meyers beach/bonita springs) I just have to say WOW. Everything and I mean everything is for sale. I met a realtor @ a bar (Beached Whale) who told me after a couple of cocktails she just bought in B.S. and she was shocked how low the appraisal came in at.. She still bought it and was drinking her sorrows away and having 2nd thoughts about it.. I bought her a drink and said don’t worry about it cause you are gonna live there right? She said no i was gonna rent it then flip it..
“I met a realtor @ a bar (Beached Whale)”
…..is the realtor or the bar, Beached Whale?
“I met a realtor @ a bar (Beached Whale)”
…..is the realtor or the bar, Beached Whale?
This is reminiscent of a Rodney Dangerfield line:
“My girl friend is sooo ugly. How ugly? One day I took her to the beach. People would come up and ask me what I used for bait.”
I have been tracking PSL Florida for months and finally,
I just found a investor taking a 6% loss on what they paid last year.
They paid 255,000 Jan last year and have just listed it for 239,900. The 2006 assessment is 246,900.
BTW, this house sold for 146,200 June 2000.
SKB
So, it begins.
Looks like they are finally starting to wake up and realize that they are going to take a loss and better to get in now rather than chase it down.
SKB
Could be either at this bar. Darwin in action. She is eating her own excrement. Surprised that she realized that it tastes bad.
The bar was called the beached whale
The Realtor was a Real whore
With all of the news pointing to FL being ground zero for the blowout (for now), how is it possible that people are still buying with this as their exit strategy. Unbelievable.
Look on the bright side, I guess. It would appear that she is practicing what she preaches.
I think the light came on for my wife tonight. We were watching one of those what-is-my-house-worth? shows where a FL couple was selling their Key Biskayne home. Why, wife asks? You missed it? I said: It costs them $13,000 / month. They found an equivelent rental for $4500 a month.
Wife: How can it be three times less to rent?
Me: They paid way too much for it.
Wife: But, if they rent they will be throwing their money away!
OK, still some more work to do
I hope you keep the checkbook.
Attention to those wishful buyers who are waiting to buy but frustated that prices aren’t being reduced faster, the worst thing you can actually do is look at houses because you give the sellers HOPE. I just had my house listed for 6 months, every week I would start to panic and think that I needed to slash my price, then I would hear from my realtor that X people had looked (ususally 3-6), and I would be comforted that any day I would get the elusive offer (full price of course) since all those people were looking. I guarantee since I needed to sell that I would have slashed the price much quicker if noone was looking. Even if you put in low-ball offers, you are still giving the seller false hope that they will eventually get their price. There are millions of people in this situation right now.
Meh. If a KC flipper impales himself on his granite countertop and nobody even notices, does it make a sound?
ROTFLMAO.
AMEN!
The sound you’re going for is SPLAT!
Problem is, you hear it so much lately, you tune it out.
Stupid Purchasers Lame At Timing.
“They prefer to sit and wait for six months or even a year, rather than take a loss on the sale of their home,’ said Palmer.”
And how many sellers have that kind of luxury to sit and wait when they have a ARM reset, divorce, or job relocation ?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH, this “logic” kills me, so the payments and taxes and maintenance are not a loss???? ugh.. this is what you get when all people care about is “what is the payment” They can’t read a balance sheet or balance checkbooks and they shouldn’t VOTE!
Wanna laugh some more?
http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=366076208&size=o
LOL. Good one txchick57.
Well, if you want to laugh at him, just check out all the images and comments at the Exurban Nation blog.
NR
Wait a second…this is the PLAINTIFF’s attorney?
“Loft condos in old factories and warehouses are in vogue. But the buildings are complicated to convert into residential uses, and pose unique maintenance problems, said Mark Pearlstein, the attorney who has filed lawsuits against the developers at both sites. ‘The owners have to realize that they’ve bought into an old building,’ Pearlstein said.”
“Pearlstein said buyers have the mistaken impression that city inspectors will guard against shoddy construction. ‘There is no effective government oversight of construction or renovation in the city,’ Pearlstein said.”
“”Sellers are not necessarily desperate to sell. They prefer to sit and wait for six months or even a year, rather than take a loss on the sale of their home,’ said Palmer. ‘It’s become a stalemate,’ she said. ‘Who’s gonna blink first?’” “”
I can sit and stare ‘em in the eye for another 10 years if necessary. Can sellers do that?.
Stare?
I’m going off to play. Let the sellers stare into a wall for all I care.
The more I learn about real estate bubbles, the slower I realize the process is… sigh.
Oh well…
Got popcorn?
Neil
awww, cheer up GS, there were at least 5 or 6 stories on MSM media at the airport while I was waiting for my flight all about the housing crash… now think what they were saying just a few months ago…
“Doug and Cathy Cade are offering a new car or a trip to Hawaii for anyone who buys their five-bedroom Shawnee house for the asking price.”
Doug and Cathy = dumb and dumber
Here’s a chuckle from the Broker’s Outpost Forum:
“I am trying to accomplish 3 things with this posting.
1. I want to build a LENDERS list of (HARD MONEY ONLY)
2. I also want to build a Buyers list (Investors wanting to buy fixer uppers in Florida)
I have a property that I need to get purchased or refinanced!
ONLY INVESTORS
I have a House I am letting go for 70% LTV fixer Upper. I have the appraisal at 138,000 Polk count Florida. 96,600 is 70% leaving you 41K in equity. House needs work, paint job…etc could sell for more then 138,000 with comps in the area going for more.
I also can get you into the house no payments providing a credit score higher then 530. If you would like more info on the property or anyone you know (Investor) please email me! I can send you a copy of the appraisal if you would like.
Let me know ASAP!”
There’s a lot of FB’s in Florida who need property purchased….ROFLMAO
If there’s an easy $41k to be made….why doesn’t he just do it himself? Hmmm…..wonder why
3. Get better at math.
No, phase 3 is profit.
And not to be outdone on the Credit Boards:
“I know that most people say that buying is better than renting because you are throwing money away when you rent. But I think it has to do with the individual situation. Here is ours:
We are renting right now (only $650/month because it’s from a friend and we helped remodel the house) but we have totally outgrown the house. We definitely need something bigger. I only work very part time (6 hrs/week) so my husband is the one with the income. His middle score is 573 and mine is 581. We are getting ready to pay off two collections this month and I’m hoping that improves it. So, we could be mortgage ready in a couple of months. We are trying to decide if we should just rent a larger home and work on our credit so we can get a better rate or buy a house now. I have two concerns with buying now: 1) It scares me a little to think of that type of commitment. Are we ready to take on that much debt? What if the hot water heater goes out or the roof starts leaking. We couldn’t pay for it. It’s so much easier to let the landlord take care of it. 2) We can only afford a monthly payment of $800-1,100. That is not that much house. We need a 3-4 bedroom. Whereas you can get a lot more house for that in rent. I just don’t want to live in an area that I don’t really like because we can only afford a cheap house. We live in Kansas City, MO.
I really need advice on this. Thanks!”
Yep…..pay off a couple of collections and presto, chango…..you are mortgage ready.
Yep…..pay off a couple of collections and presto, chango…..you are mortgage ready.
You know somebody will give them a mortgage.
Of course the first thing I would be thinking of after finally paying off a couple of collections is “how can I go into more debt?”
It’s like stopping at the liquor store after getting out of rehab.
If they can’t afford to replce a water heater, God help them! Sterilization? -
“Kelter, who had paid $405,000 for his 2-bedroom condo in 2001, had no idea the water drip would turn into a potential $100,000 expense because of alleged major structural problems in the building. But it did. And he’s not alone.”
Amazing coincidence. We currently have a client with the exact same problem.
Not sure how it’ll turn out, but in the meantime the client is fuming. Why? Every time we speak with the condo association’s attorney to settle, he sends OUR client a bill for the time! And not for a pro-rated amount based on the other condo owners, but for the full boat.
Just makes me want to run out and buy one of those funky loft condos!
I hope you were able to get an injunction preventing the association attorney from billing your client while the case is still pending. I would think a judge would not be too fond of letting this happen, even if there were something in the condo association documents allowing it.
I’m just remembering the last time I bought a house. The bank was queasy because there weren’t a lot of good comps for a property of such large size. The inspector picked out a bunch of flaws and pulled me aside to look at each one and explain it in detail. Showed me every crack in the roofing tiles, potential water problems in the basement, looked over the barn… Title girl came in and pointed out the old deeds were not surveyed that well and to look out for encroaching neighboors. My credit was OK and I brough 20% down and got slamed over a small unpaid bill that I was disputing… ended up having to pay it.
Complete contrast to what these asshats are saying now. Totally different.
“Sellers are not necessarily desperate to sell. They prefer to sit and wait for six months or even a year, rather than take a loss on the sale of their home,’ said Palmer.”
Yeah! that’s why I saw a house for sale in Brookdale division in Naperville for sale since last August with a price cut of 50k and new listing last month and houses going from sale to rent. The townhouse in front of mine is now for sale by owner, I wonder how long it will take to sell (however they are Indians and they sale-buy within their community). I have been comparing MLS and the DuPage county foreclosure lists…well there are a lot of matches. Those sellers have to sell, either them or the bank in a few months.
It is interesting to see how in Glendale Hights/Aurora most of the foreclosures have a hispanic/indian/pakistanee owner meanwhile in Wheaton/Glen Ellyn/Naperville surnames are Indian/German/Polish/English. It shows where the different ethnic groups have bought.
I am looking in Wheaton and I have seen the increase of inventory since the beginning of the year (each week there are 2 or 3 houses more for the type of house I’m looking), also I have seen at least 20% were bought from 2003 to 2006 remodeled (scary! I don’t know if I would trust their construction skills) and then put in the market for up to 50% increase in price.
Yeah, that statement of waiting for 6 months to a year is 6 months to a year to late. I can go on Zip Realty and find a ton of homes that have benn on the market 180 days or more.
And what is the true numbers of days on the market? I’ll betcha lots of those homes are on their 3rd or 4th listing.
The MLS portion that “regular people” aren’t allowed to see counts days on market as the sum total of all of those listings (and does a good job of catching them - listing agents like to make spelling errors and accidentally put the wrong PIN number in, etc). Around here each agent that puts up an MLS web site has to calculate it themselves in whatever manner they want because that number is not included in the data feed the agents can make public. I would assume that most website software does not make the correlation, but if you actually ask your Realtor to look it up they can get that for you.
I’ve been looking in Wheaton since June 2001. Lots of things bought by builders (teardowns), flippers, and people trying to rent out. Quite a few homes we looked at have come up for sale a second time. Prices have really gotten ridiculous in the last couple of years.
“Flip that House” on History Channel soon !
Real estate brokers getting commissions for doing stupid and useless work will also soon be “kind of over” too
At least with builders and tradesmen they are building and creating something of value - instead of hanging around all day harassing FSBO sellers and inventing new stories about the market recovering
Ok, I didn’t read all the comments & I don’t dream of affecting anyone by commenting…My feeling on the flipping thing is that by the time 4 tv shows are dedicated to the trade it is time to move on, cuz the ride is over… Also I think the housing bubble concept really depends on where you live. My area the housing bubble never happened & probably never will, the property values increase but not very rapidly. We are a well kept secret & I hope it stays that way!!!