The Housing Bubble

Thanks! Needed that cross-cultural hint.

Amen

“most industrious and future-oriented Venezualans”

LOL - are you talking about those life sucking vermints known as “upper class”?

Heh, here I thought “liberatian” was a good thing. Oops guess I’m thinking of liberatiOn. I think I’ve heard that some people have in fact been found not guilty in tax evasion cases, and not just in a movie. But I too remain skeptical.

yeah and OJ didn’t murder Ron and Nicole. ask the jury.

The Internal Revenue Code is contract law. If you don’t want to pay taxes, rescind your contracts and do not partake in government benefits (social security, FHA loans, etc).

If you want the benefits - stay on your knees, keep your mouths shut, pay your taxes and do as your told.

I was watching a show on ancient egypt, and how the poor schmucks had to labor on the pyramids for 2-3 months out of the year. Then I realized 25% of my income — 3 MONTHS — goes out in taxes. d’oh!

At least I get the world’s coolest military, semi-functioning socialism, and semi-competent governance out of the deal.

crisrose,
Found on itulip:

“The Chairman noted that the President had recently signed the Financial Services Regulatory Relief Act of 2006, which among its provisions gave the Federal Reserve discretion, beginning October 2011, both to pay interest on reserve balances and to reduce further or eliminate reserve requirements. The Act potentially has important implications for many aspects of the Federal Reserve’s operations”
Source: Fed minutes from Oct 2006

More food for the compound interest formula?

One stark change from growing up in el lay, (late boomer, 1961 model, a few rips in the upholstery, otherwise runs well) was that on virtually every city intersection, there’d be one or 2, sometimes 3 gas stations, on the corners, in the 60’s…

The gas stations are mostly gone now and what have they been replaced by?

It’s now not uncommon to see 2 rival drug stores @ the corners of intersections, and they aren’t making their loot from selling fritos, make-up & sundries. It’s all about selling $426.43 worth of some drug, heavily advertised on tv, for a $10.00 co-payment.

Marc is right re: american healthcare. By your logic, Canuck, one cannot criticize any system of any country but the one you live in. That makes no sense.

As an American, I’ll tell you our system is horrifically overpriced, poorly distributed, and inferior to healthcare systems of other industrialized nations.

I’ve been to Canada and I would swap health care regimes in a heartbeat.

I think another problem with the U.S. system is that the few that actually do pay have to cover the many that don’t, so they end up paying a lot. In Canada, most higher earners do have to pay something for health care (at least in BC), but it’s strongly subsidised by taxes, which everyone *should* pay, sharing the burden between many rather than by only a few.

(Disclosure: I’m Canadian but have lived in California and Sweden and been to hospitals in both - Kaiser in Santa Clara.)

I’m an American living in Canada and I much, much prefer the health care here. Both the US and Canada have problems, but I think the ones in Canada are easier to deal with.

And Canuck, do you complain when people in the US criticize the Canadian health care system?

For the US, I favor a system where in order to have the privilege of making money providing health insurance, companies have to be regulated in a different way than they are now. There would have to be price caps and they would have to accept people with medical conditions. Health insurance companies are making millions in profit and their CEOs are quite well compensated while the quality of care declines and an increasing number of Americans are uninsured.

If they can’t deal with a system where they are more regulated, I guess it’s time for them to get out of business and get a system more like Canada. I’m not sure why we need a middle man here anyway. The main reason I favor this type of system is I think it would be easier to implement and accepted by more people.

Having most people’s insurance tied to their jobs is just silly. So you lose your job, then you have much less money and have to start paying a lot of money for your insurance. It makes it hard for employers too. Why is that their responsibility?

In the US, one of the most common reasons for bankruptcy is medical bills. You don’t see that in Canada.

When my grandfather had a heart attack in Southern California, the emergency room was packed full of people with much more minor complaints. Most of them were Hispanic and didn’t speak English. Perhaps they were all in the country legally but I doubt it. The room was so crowded he was physically unable to get in at first because it was blocked. Luckily he survived.

But we as Americans have the privilege to pay for the medical care of illegal aliens with our tax dollars. But we don’t get to pay for our own care that way, which I think would be a much better system than we have now. I think that the best system would be heavy regulation of health care insurance providers though.

I find it very frustrating as someone who wants to have a baby that if I was in the US illegally I would get a free birth and maternity care, but as a legal US citizen I will have to pay a lot of money in deductibles even after paying for insurance.

no i do not mind some one critisizing the health care in canada , i just think me entering a debate trying to convince a republican that democrats are correct is basicly only limited to hows it effects me in canada , and my knowledge is basically only from from the media. I trust your points more, am I wrong ? I believe you have to live in a place long enough for you to get a true picture? I live in the birthplace of medicare in Canada, and it isn’ t the glorified model you may wish to build. You only discover the reality when your family tries to access it. do you want gas at $ 5.00 a gallon. How much are you prepared to pay? 50% of our income goes to government now and and even our govt knows they cant afford the cost. Hence talk of private care. It is the same as housing …the affordability isn’t there. Is it really different here? If you believe the govt administration is the cheapest way, with less waste I will respect your opinion ,but thats not what I see.

We have accessed it. My husband had what they thought was a heart attack and he got good care. I had a cancer scare and I got good care. I have not met anyone in person who has had problems with the Canadian health care system. I have had problems and have met many people who have had problems with the US insurance system.

We are not poor people either. My husband has a well paying career. We had good insurance in the US and if we move back we will most likely have ok insurance.

We are prepared to pay, I know we pay higher taxes here in Canada and I’m not thrilled about it but since we don’t have to pay for insurance or any deductibles or co pays it does somewhat balance out.

Like I said, I think that the US should try a more regulated private insurance model before going to public health insurance. There needs to be at least a better system in place for people who are totally priced out of insurance.

If you happen to live in the right area you are fine, My dad didn’t and no nurse entered the hospital room till about 8 hours after death. My old neighbour died from a heart attack in the emergency room after waiting 3 hours for a doctor, the nurse never called any , as they diagnosed it as heartburn. I will never vote NDP again, it took this to break a family tradition. So I am a little bitter!

just another comment , i complained and the administrator of the hospital resigned and went back to working as a nurse there.

“It’s now not uncommon to see 2 rival drug stores @ the corners of intersections, and they aren’t making their loot from selling fritos, make-up & sundries. It’s all about selling $426.43 worth of some drug, heavily advertised on tv, for a $10.00 co-payment.”

You should know that selling brand-name drugs is a very LOW margin business for drugstores. The only ones making money are the drug manufacturers. PBMs barely make any profit either, they just play the “float” between what they have to pay the pharmacy for the drug and what they get from the insurance plans.

Chain pharmacies make a majority of their profits from chips and shampoo, more commonly known as front-end merchandise. They figure you will pay for convenience. They make decent money on generic drugs too.

I find it very frustrating as someone who wants to have a baby that if I was in the US illegally I would get a free birth and maternity care, but as a legal US citizen I will have to pay a lot of money in deductibles even after paying for insurance.

Medical facilities in the United States are not permitted to turn away any person in need of medical care. We’re talking about human life here, money is just money! This is the way it should be!

If you were an uninsured American citizen and walked into a hospital when your water broke you would get free birth and maternity care. You make it sound like illegals are getting something we are not.

The hospital is allowed to write off the uncollectible bills as tax deductions, so everything works out as long as most people pay.

We need some major reforms in health insurance in this country; I don’t think anyone disagrees. Our health care system, however, works great and is the envy of much of the world.

Partially correct (why is this in bold? how do I turn it off?). Emergency Care is federally protected in the US (EMTALA - emergency medical treatment and labor act). A person has to be seen, regardless of insurance status or ability to pay; however, it’s NOT free care. If you have no insurance, you will be billed for the care. Of course, most non-insured people are not insured for a reason…they can’t afford it and are most likely unable to pay the costs. So, you’ll get a bill, whether you pay it or not is a different story. That’s why it’s so expensive in the US…those with insurance pay the costs for those without insurance.

As a Canadian living in the United States for 12 years I agree that the American systmem is far superior to Canada’s. But this only applies to the top 10-20% (maybe higher or lower - this is just a guess) of the population who are either rich have good employer-supplied insurance. For the working class, a health care system as offered in Canada would likely be preferable to them.

CC,

I’m a MD in the US. You hit the nail on the head. If you are educated, wealthy and knowledgeable (and lucky to live in the right area), the care in the US probably exceeds the quality of care anywhere else in the world. This also applies to drunks, indigents and illegals that happen to live near the best medical centers (the care is not quite as good as for the upper class, but it is still better than the rest of the world). For the working class, our system can only provide these benefits if you are willing to lose all your money and go into welfare/medicaid. I’d consider moving to Canada if my wife would let me… despite the cut in pay.

“I would add the huge costs of paying the the bloated, ever-growing entitlement classes (AARP geezers, welfare bums, etc.) that get passed on to the beleagured middle and working classes.”

Agreed. Many people view healthcare as a god-given right, and there isn’t a politician alive that will ruin their campaign attempting to correct this view.

As a Canadian living in the US for several years I now see who benefits from which system the most.

If you’re poor or lower middle class - Canada is the best because you know you’re covered.
If you’re upper middle class or higher - US system works better.

I waited 6-9 months for MRIs in Canada. In the US, I get it in a few days if not the same day if I need it.

In Canada, my father-in-law waited for bypass surgery, and waited and waited and got bumped and then waited some more. Unless you’re critical, you’ll wait a long time for something that could turn life threatening at any time. It’s true when they say people in Canada die waiting for surgeries.

Worked in Switzerland, a co-worker got sick. He could not leave the hospital, until his bill was paid by him or his medical insurance from the U.S. Stay in the hospital or go to jail. My feel Swiss workers said “why should we pay for his health”. No one in Switzerland complained about the health care system in Switzerland. Wonder why?
Also, dated a girl who got sick in Africa. She had to pay for her hospital stay. The African attitude: You are from a rich country, you should have stayed there if you did not want to get sick here.

The ndp party in saskatchewan sure plays the fear card to the seniors, Vote NDP or the other parties will destroy medicare. Sounds like they are realtors. I prefer to look at their results.

what about those paper shufflers called insurance companies. do they add significant value to the healthcare of the sick at all? they are a big cost component of the healthcare system in the us, and whose major function is to spend the least on heatlhcare itself. can we just reduce their cost component to the low single digit of the entire healthcare cost. or better yet eliminate them, if possible.

A few years ago, my wife was traveling in Mexico and completely slit a tendon in her hand in half. The local doctor would not open his bag until she paid in full. It took all her cash and two maxed-out credit cards, but luckily that type of injury was very common in the farm workers of the area and the doctor was an expert in fixing it.

Last year in Germany my wife got an eye infection. The hotel called for a doctor, he came by and took a look. 30 seconds later we had the diagnosis and a prescription. He then said “you have insurance in the US, right? You pay me now and I’ll give you a form to take home with you and they will give you the money back.” When we said that no, we didn’t, he was surprised and then changed the price (I guess he felt sorry for us), but wanted his money right then. We didn’t have 250 euros in cash and he didn’t take credit cards. Our hotel was very nice though - they gave him the money and charged it to our room (we were paying with a credit card).

In my mind, the American system works very well. We get excellent health care and nobody bothers you about money - they just send a bill to you or your insurance later.

The problem here really is the insurance.

Carlsbad,
You are correct. However, this is why 80+ percent of the pharmaceutical research in the world is done in the US. We also benefit from all of the jobs that this industry creates. My guess is we about break even on the deal in terms of overall benefits to society. Our working poor, however, once again get it up the @$$.

With the amount of money the US govt. spends subsidizing prescription costs, we’d be better off funding federal public drug research where the govt. would discover and own the license to new drugs, which could then be produced and distributed for almost nothing (relative to current drug costs).

Which is why I suspect that one of the things that will happen once the medical cost crisis reaches critical is the nationalization of drug patents. The government will offer to sell all existing drugs at production cost but development of new drugs will be halted. Think of the cost savings. Think of the rapturous joy of the grey panthers who will be able to get all the pills they want for pennies a pill. You don’t miss what doesn’t exist. The gov will eventually realize that every new drug is just added cost for them and will solve the “problem” by ending the creation of new drugs.

Carlsbad renter writes: “Your [sic] Welcome, Canada”.

Ah yes, America, once again, the victim.

Your pharmaceutical companies are screwing you on drug prices (unlimited pricing power within the initial patent protection term). I’ll spare you the long rant on how the patent system is a disaster in so many ways. It stifles innovation rather than fosters it.

This is the same system where more is spent on drug marketing than drug research and development. So cry me a river that foreigners aren’t forced to subsidize those drug-ad marketing blitzes.

Anyway, you know the system is broken when it produces several different drugs for erectile disfunction and male pattern baldness, but has consistently disappoints in areas like cancer and HIV treatment.

Yeah, let’s conveniently forget the part where NIH paid for the R&D through Gov’t grants. Big Pharma has actually slashed R&D budgets. They don’t need it when university medical centers with Federal money are doing all the research. They only step in when they can make a quick buck.

Just FYI they are disappointing on the male pattern baldness front too.

Can’t tell you about the ED front.

You people make interesting points regarding the health care system. I find them interesting because they come from the point of view of users of the system, rather than providers. My husband is a physician and I can tell you without a doubt that the system here is bady screwed up, even allowing for the fact that there are excellent centers and independent professionals who do a good job. Insurance companies are paying less and less every year for the same service, forcing doctors to see twice or three times more patients than they did in the past. Just think about that and you will realize that your physician is giving you two or three times less of his brain power and attention, for the same condition. Pharmaceutical companies have tried hard, and suceeded in many cases, to turn doctors into drug pushers in such a way that they end up prescribing a more expensive drug for something that could be solved with an older, cheaper drug. So the pharmaceutical companies make more money, the insurance companies are in bed with them and decide to screw the doctors and nurses with less pay (and their patients), because in any system you have to have a sucker. That doesn’t even take into consideration the problem of litigation. These new managed care systems work fine for patients who don’t have serious problems, but once you get into that the amount of carelessness and screwups just boggles the mind.

Comment by not a gator
2007-02-20 13:25:06
Yeah, let’s conveniently forget the part where NIH paid for the R&D through Gov’t grants. Big Pharma has actually slashed R&D budgets. They don’t need it when university medical centers with Federal money are doing all the research. They only step in when they can make a quick buck.
—————————–
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VERY, VERY ACCURATE POINT!!!!

My father has been participating in clinical trials at the NIH, and I do a fair amount of research WRT R&D, etc. as I try to find why our healthcare costs have risen so dramatically while we get poorer medical care in the U.S.

It is the PUBLIC money which funds most (?) R&D. The pharmaceutical companies then buy the rights to produce, market and distribute the drugs.

Anyone who claims that our “free market” drives innovation in healthcare hasn’t done the research.

A society, as a whole, benefits from having a healthy and productive workforce. It is in all of our interests to ensure the majority of people in our society have access to good medical care.

OTOH, there are some bio-ethical dilemas which need to be worked out before we can have a viable “nationalized” healthcare system.

We need to determine if there is an upper age limit beyond which we do not provide certain treatments. Also, if there is a limit to the number of treatments one can get, and if we should prioritze treatments based on whether a person is considered a “benefit” to society (a person who is responsible for minor children is more valuable than one who is not because his/her dealth would create a burden on society as society has to take care of the children — OR that a childless, young person is more “valuable” because he/she can work and be a more productive member of society in that respect).

As it stands, a company which benefits from having a greater number of sick people whose **symptoms are treated by long-term medication** as opposed to finding cures for our most debilitating and fatal diseases, creates a conflict of interest which does not bode well for the health of the members of a society.

I’m with you Palmetto. I want to vote with my wallet every day not just once a year.

“Flat tax would leave the IRS apparatus in place. Sales tax rids us of that dubious agency and their crazy code. Sales tax rewards savings.”

Yes, by all means have a tax where the poorest get taxed on 100% of their income and Bill Gates gets taxed on 1/10 of one percent of his income.

Hey, I like stealth bombers! Talk about a piece of technology that is far ahead of anyone else, designed and built mostly in America.

In addition, you should see the new class of nuclear attach subs…awsome.

RUS defense budget is 1/12th of ours
when they talk we listen
they have oil - we don’t

yah - awesome… just what is needed…

LOL

Get your friggin facts straight, the housing market has been turned upside down since 1995! from federal reserve notes feb 1994 Alan Greenspan: “When we moved on February 4th, I think our expectation was that we would prick the bubble in the equity markets. What in fact occurred is that, as evidence of the dramatic shift in the economic outlook began to emerge after we moved and long-term rates began to move up, we were also clearly getting a major upward increase in expectations of corporate earnings. While the stock market went down after our actions on February 4th, it has gone down really quite marginally on net over this period. So what has occurred is that while this capital gains bubble in all financial assets had to come down, instead of the decline being concentrated in the stock area, it shifted over into the bond area. But the effects are the same. These are major capital losses, which have required very dramatic changes in the actions and activities on the part of individuals and institutions.”

“So the question is, having very consciously and purposely tried to break the bubble and upset the markets in order to sort of break the cocoon of capital gains speculation, we are now in a position—having done that and in a sense succeeded perhaps more than we had intended—to try to restore some degree of confidence in the System.”The first mention by the Federal reserve of a possible creation of a housing bubble was in 1994, the first (to my limited knowledge general mention in financial news articles)was 1999. The first blog to discuss the housing bubble was 2002. I do not care who is in office - there is little if any difference between the democratic and republican parties. The policies are the same, the little difference is how much to allocate.
Federal Open Market meeting Mar, 1994 (caution pdf)
http://tinyurl.com/ptw3d

and please keep in mind that there are housing bubbles all around the anglosaxon world, so blaming specific political parties is silly. At least in my country (NL) I’m 100% sure that all big political parties want this bubble and will do anything to feed it, if only because homeowners are a majority and because the extra money creation allows them to overspend a bit more; I guess it’s similar in many other countries.

i thought we were blaming poppie alan all along?

I blame Ronald Reagan for appointing Greenspan in the first place.

American labor unions have been castrated over time.

Probably, but what can they actually do about it? Union membership has been declining for decades, and their actual power has been plummeting.

Union representation has historically been non-existent in residential construction. Until a few years ago, 95% of builders were small, local operations that had no more than a dozen total employees. Far too small for unionization. Also, most of the work is done by subcontractors, who tended to be even smaller operations working one-off contracts for each house.

It’s pretty tough to unionize against your dad or uncle, too. Most construction firms until very recently were family owned and operated company.

In saskatchewan most big contractors have two arms, one unionized , one not. If you want to get the govt job you are required to hire union labour . If no union labour is available in that area you still must not use skilled local Labour . You have to chose from the union labour pool and provide room and board , or travel time for them. The govt owns most of our utilities that is natural gas, telephone , power etc. This policy ensures union votes at election time.