March 7, 2007

Bits Bucket And Craigslist Finds For March 7, 2007

Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.




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249 Comments »

Comment by flatffplan
2007-03-07 04:15:38

Mortgage Defaults Spread Beyond Sub-Prime Loans
The Wall Street Journal Online

yahoo marquee
Cramer says no big deal

Comment by AZgolfer
2007-03-07 05:02:31

Everyone is invited to a Phoenix housing bubble party tonight at The Vintage Market (my favorite wine shop and restaurant) located at the Biltmore Fashion Mall (24th street and Camelback) at 6:00 PM.

Be there or be square!

Comment by palmetto
2007-03-07 05:20:45

Seriously? I’m in Florida, otherwise I’d come. You may be joking, but I think housing bubble parties are a great idea.

Comment by bluesands
2007-03-07 06:05:35

Yeah I am in Fla (Tampa Bay Bubble Area) and i think a bubble party is a really great idea!

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Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2007-03-07 06:14:49

We’ll arrange one in the Tampa Area soon.
How about Ybor or Channelside areas, or BRandon?

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Comment by michael f
2007-03-07 06:16:54

How about haviing it a Mons Venus.

 
Comment by palmetto
2007-03-07 06:18:50

Well, I think we ought to have it in the most chic venue that Tampa has to offer. Although “chic” and “Tampa” might be mutually exclusive terms. Not a shot at Tampa, with all its problems I’d rather be here than anywhere else right now. Maybe we can invite Pam Iorio to give us a little pep talk on development.

 
Comment by Quirk
2007-03-07 21:38:35

Or Thee Dollhouse?

 
 
Comment by droog
2007-03-07 07:46:37

I’m in WPB and I’d love to come to a housing bubble party! I know there are some othe WPB HBB members out there… anyone else interested?

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Comment by txchick57
2007-03-07 05:48:33

I can’t fly. Have a brutal inner ear infection (mentioned Monday).

Comment by palmetto
2007-03-07 05:59:07

That sucks, tx. I know what that’s like, dizziness and lack of equilibrium can be worse than the pain. I’m surprised you can even sit at the computer and type. I hope you are getting it taken care of, the after effects can really suck if you don’t get it handled.

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Comment by AZgolfer
2007-03-07 07:07:01

Txchick - sorry you can’t make it. About 8 years ago I was really into scuba diving and had several bad ear infections. No fun! I will take digital pictures tonight and post in Ben’s Photo file. I hope more than me and Talon shows up because I am giving up my weekly racquet ball game AND an invite to a Suns game. For anyone who does come, I am wearing a white shirt that has “GOLF” accross the front.

See ya all there!

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Comment by Chrisusc
2007-03-07 07:42:02

Sorry, just got to work. I was in until 2:00 this morning working on corp taxes, since deadline is next week. I will be there tonight with my better half in tow. See you guys there.

 
 
Comment by Chrisusc
2007-03-07 07:43:10

Sorry to hear you cant come. I was looking forward to meeting you in person and getting your insights on the market and where we go from here.

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Comment by txchick57
2007-03-07 08:54:29

I go to AZ all the time, also CA. We’ll have lunch sometime down the line if you wish.

 
Comment by Chrisusc
2007-03-07 11:03:44

Will do. Hope you feel better.

 
 
Comment by JWM in SD
2007-03-07 08:48:30

Tx Chick,

OT, in your opinion, is it too late or too early to short / buy puts in Country Wide? I saw your conmments in an earlier thread and I’m interested in your opinion.

Regards,

JWM in SD

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Comment by txchick57
2007-03-07 08:53:23

I think there’s way better shorts than Countrywide.

 
Comment by JWM in SD
2007-03-07 09:38:00

In or outside the mortgage financing arena?

 
 
 
Comment by Big V
2007-03-07 12:48:28

AZGolfer:

You know it’s dangerous to go to people’s houses whom you do not know.

Comment by Big V
2007-03-07 12:52:53

Or meet them or whatever. AZ Golfer could be a serial killer for all we know. Even if TX Chick comes up murdered, and the cops figure out that she is TX Chick, how will they be able to identify AZ Golfer?

I think we should all insist on pictures (including state-issued IDs) being posted BEFORE meeting anyone.

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Comment by CA renter
2007-03-08 01:15:03

The guys and gals over at Patrick’s had at least one party & everything turned out just fine.

No need to try to scare everyone. If they are meeting in a public place, and in a group, they will be fine.

Wishing all you AZ posters a great time tonight!!! :)

 
 
 
 
Comment by Lou Minatti
2007-03-07 05:30:43

Booyah!

 
Comment by apartmentdweller
2007-03-07 08:25:17

Are the big banks like Citigroup, Bank of America going to be effected by this mortgage debable? No one seems to be talking about it. Could someone weigh in on this please?

Comment by oc-ed
2007-03-07 09:12:21

I got two email offers for refi today. One from Citi and one from American Airlines (lendingtree). Looks like they are throttling up the sales engine. Could be an indicator that the answer to your questions is a yes.

 
 
 
Comment by Penina
2007-03-07 04:20:26
Comment by luvs_footie
2007-03-07 04:34:29

“Toll’s Flip-Flop” will replace the Spring bounce…….

Gotta love it.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-03-07 07:44:09

Toll Brothers Homes: Guaranteed for Five Years. Then They Fall Apart.

The above slogan was coined by a family friend who once worked for Toll.

 
 
Comment by Hoz
2007-03-07 05:09:56

“We don’t want to buy if prices are going down,”
At last a reasonable individual.

Comment by nhz
2007-03-07 05:42:00

if this message gets through it could be the most important factor in ending the bubble.

In a report from a few years ago by the Dutch banks, they found that ‘buy now or be priced forever’ was the most important factor for people to buy instead of keep renting; about 70% as buyers mentioned this argument. The banks correctly identified this as ’speculation’: people are making a decision on the basis of speculation about future home prices (while no one really knows). Shows that the fear to be left behind is even stronger than greed in the biggest pyramid game ever (there is lots of greed, but probably not with the average buyer). All mass psychology, and that is difficult to influence after the trend changes.

US could be different of course, when the research for this report was done home prices had already been surging for 10 years or so in the Netherlands.

Comment by palmetto
2007-03-07 06:04:08

Hey, nhz, saw your response to my question on globalization in yesterday’s thread, too late to post a reply yesterday, but wanted to thank you today. Good stuff. Just wondering if you think England is part of that neo-colonial attitude led by the US.

And in reply to the above, the Dutch banks are right in their assessment of human nature. US is no different and probably worse when it comes to mass psychology. I’m just wondering what the “mass psychology” will be during the bust. There’s going to be SO much anger here.

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Comment by nhz
2007-03-07 08:25:42

I think the US, UK and Dutch governments are basically on the same track - neo-colonialism, big business ruling the waves and a touch of neocon (conservative christian) thinking. Substitute Labour (UK) and the Dutch labour party (PvdA) for the US Democrats and you get the picture. You see it in the Iraq / Afghanistan wars, policy towards the Middle East and many other ’sensitive’ international issues of today. This policy is certainly not representative of what their citizens want, especially in Netherlands. Also these countries have a national economy that is dominated by the financial sector and all kinds of ’speculation’. One could probably add Oz to this same ‘axis of evil’ that is basically following the script from Washington.

Most of Europe is far different and more independent, although the former Eastern Europe countries are strongly pressured lately by the US into political/military cooperation by all kinds of financial incentives.

regarding mass psychology and RE: it’s too early to judge, it might take years before it really starts working in reverse gear (just like it took years of surging prices before the general public took notice). But when the mood really changes, even the black helicopters of uncle Ben might prove totally helpless.

 
 
Comment by tg
2007-03-07 06:54:40

Could it be a rational response to a currency losing value in the market. Please do not get me wrong I am not saying it was a good idea but if housing was going up at >10% a year and you are trying to save at 2% you are getting priced out. Thisd was a fed manipulation of our money and we will all have to pay the price. This is why it is important to reward savers or you run the risk of rampant speculation

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Comment by nhz
2007-03-07 08:27:40

part of it certainly is a rational (or maybe emotional?) response to currency debasement by the FED and ECB. It’s the War on Savers and I think it will continue until the bitter end.

 
Comment by cassiopeia
2007-03-07 14:41:38

This is why it is important to reward savers or you run the risk of rampant speculation

tg, true, but how many “savers” are there in this country to reward? Since I’ve been reading this blog, I found out to my surprise that there are not that many of us. Do we justify any draconian measures in our favor? I don’t think so. Any government, no matter what political party, has to look at their idea of the “big picture”, ie, who is putting up the money and who is putting up the votes. The ones putting up the money are the guys in Wall Street. The guys putting up the votes are mostly FB’s. Sadly, I don’t think it is in their interest to reward a comparatively small number of savers. To me it all turns in what ends up being convenient for the big money guys.

 
Comment by tg
2007-03-07 15:55:14

IMO most people were trying to save by buying a house. What the powers that be have done is manipulated the propensity to save from money into housing. It was a great way to get people to consume and stimulate the economy but it is a con job.If people were getting ahead by saving in money there would be plenty of savers. There used be great concerns with the concept of sound money. It was common knowledge of what would happen if strict monetary policy was not followed. We just had a Fed governor proclaim the insurance of liquidity is everything. It is moronic if we have deevolved to that point.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-07 08:15:26

“…‘buy now or be priced forever’ was the most important factor for people to buy instead of keep renting…”

This is why it is absolutely essential for the Fed to do what it can to get housing price inflation back on track, ASAP…

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Comment by nhz
2007-03-07 08:30:36

agree, and that is why I am afraid that Ben B is going to force rates down, to relight the fire under the housing market (but possibly with less speculation which makes the housing market less predictable for the FED).

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-07 08:44:17

“possibly with less speculation”

There is the rub! The Fed has only one policy instrument (lower rates) to address so many social engineering problems: keep housing price inflation at a steady but tame level, keep speculators from running rampant over the housing market, keep lending standards from going permanently out the window, keep REIC employment high… Quite a challenge there, neh?

 
Comment by nhz
2007-03-07 08:51:32

GetStucco: sure, if the housing market turns around soon speculators have all the proof they need that you cannot loose with RE, and they will be back with a vengeance.

I don’t think anything has changed yet regarding lending standards (except maybe some change in the US subprime market, we will have to see if that sticks), surging money supply, crazy housing subsidies etc. Any significant lowering of rates this year has the risk of a huge echo bubble (like what happened in Europe in 2001).

 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-03-07 20:36:37

>> There is the rub! The Fed has only one policy instrument (lower rates) to address so many social engineering problems:

Don’t they also set margin requirements? Perhaps they should be twisting the “sanity” dial too…

 
 
Comment by jbunniii
2007-03-07 08:48:07

‘buy now or be priced forever’ was the most important factor for people to buy instead of keep renting; about 70% as buyers mentioned this argument.

The truth is, there is some legitimacy to this argument. Even people on this blog, who tend to be bearish, generally acknowledge that house prices rise faster than inflation in all the good parts of California. So it’s quite possible that, unless one’s income manages to keep pace, one will eventually be priced out. This becomes a problem in particular if one seeks to retire here eventually.

So buying does make long-term sense, barring some fundamental demographic shift here.

On the other hand, I can’t think of a more ruinous way of addressing that problem than buying at the peak of one of our periodic bubbles, let alone the peak of the largest one in history, i.e. now. Renting for the rest of one’s life would be far cheaper and far less risky.

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Comment by nhz
2007-03-07 08:59:30

of course it is a valid argument, until the bubble bursts…

People who followed this thinking in the Netherlands in the last 15 years have been richly rewarded. Even if home prices decline by 50% from current valuations, many of these buyers will still be ahead of the curve.
While the bubble was growing, more and more people were ‘priced out forever’ and had to wait on the sidelines - but politics keeps inventing new subsidies, tax incentives and free ‘put options’ to provide fresh blood at the bottom of the pyramid (at a huge cost/risk to the tax payer, and hardly any risk to the buyers because they don’t have any money to start with). Politicians, banksters and the RE mob will do everything they can to keep the idea that RE only goes up alive - they simply have no other choice, otherwise their house of cards comes tumbling down.

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-07 09:11:25

“Even people on this blog, who tend to be bearish, generally acknowledge that house prices rise faster than inflation in all the good parts of California.”

Speak for yourself.

 
 
 
 
Comment by winjr
2007-03-07 05:25:50

“Scott and Kerry Bingham put down a deposit three weeks ago on a new $321,000 house at Heritage Bay, a development set on a golf course about seven miles from the ocean in Naples, Florida.

Two days later, they abandoned the deal.”

What the hell’s the matter with these people? Hot to trot, and then only a few weeks later they forfeit their deposit? We’ve wondered here if the HB’s still-elevated cancellation rates had more to do with deals getting killed by lack of financing, but I didn’t think their would still be a large class of folks signing up and then just weeks later getting cold feet.

Comment by JB
2007-03-07 05:31:13

How about next day? I’m selling my house and a buyer was supposed to sign at 9:00 AM next day; calls at 7:15AM (I’m asleep) and tells me he changed his mind. Not cold feet. Frozen.

Comment by palmetto
2007-03-07 05:40:25

All right, which one of you boneheads is the newbie lurker who stiffed JB? Fess up.

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Comment by Neil
2007-03-07 07:33:39

It bad that a sale ended that late. That’s… a poor display.

Sadly, its going to become very common once “buyers” realize what they’re in for:
Monthly payments
depreciating asset
Job insecurity..

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
 
 
Comment by Calm bfor the storm
2007-03-07 05:33:26

He and his wife had negotiated a $321,000 price for a 1,400- square-foot house with two bedrooms, a den and a garage at Lennar’s Heritage development. After putting down a $1,000 refundable deposit, they decided they could do better.

Sounds like Scott and Kerry did get their deposit back.

Comment by MGNYC
2007-03-07 07:13:24

$1000 deposit??? for a home?
i had to put that much down when my dog was getting treatment for an illness. which she beat btw

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Comment by KIA
2007-03-07 07:37:54

Yeah, I was counselling a seller about eighteen months ago and a buyer was interested. Buyer only offered $1k deposit on a $340k house, though, and wanted financing contingency and closing in a month. I asked seller “are you confident that this buyer will really close and that you can reject other offers for a month until closing based on $1,000.00?” We went back to buyer asking for a $10k deposit and they said not just no, but hell no. The broker condescendingly informed me that “That’s not the way business is done anymore.” Well, it will be this time next year. It’ll be 10% down or go somewhere else.

 
Comment by rally monkey
2007-03-07 08:23:30

The problem with that is the buyer has all the power these days. There’s plenty of other houses sitting around with no offers at all, they will kiss a buyer’s feet for a $1000 deposit.

When I bought they asked for $1000. I offered $500 and they took it.

 
Comment by jbunniii
2007-03-07 08:53:55

$1000 deposit??? for a home?

No kidding. Yet another data point to show that it’s easier to buy a house in this market than it is to rent an apartment!

 
 
 
Comment by Austin Vato
2007-03-07 08:37:15

There is an interesting post on Brokeroutpost.com on this exact subject. The post below is from an irate realtor:
I will try to keep this short, but I do have a tendency to carry on. Let me begin by saying that I have a B.S degree in Finance and an MBA with an emphasis in Finance. I began as a loan officer. I now have a real estate license. I know loans, so I sell/buy real estate and do the loans on them.

But since when do loan officers push a purchase loan down someone’s throat without telling them what the monthly payment will be? The Clients Will See The Payment Sooner Or Later. Do you really think that you are going to sneak it by them? They are not buying a $1 toy. They are buying the scariest purchase in their lives.

I have a listing that I am trying to sell now. I am doing both sides of the transaction. This is 6% to me without the loan. The client tells me that they already have a loan officer. “Fine,” I say, “no problem.” Anyway, I am making 6 points on the deal, no need to be greedy. If the LO is good, I don’t mind sharing the work. And California properties are 450K and more, which makes a decent return to me.

Well, the LO did not have the clients sign a 1003. Of course, this way he does not need to disclose the GFE just yet. Well, he also failed to disclose the monthly payment to them. These people are looking for 100% financing with closing costs credited by the seller. They “might” have the 3 months reserves soon! So, needless to say, when they saw the payment on the loan that I worked up they were shocked? I wasted my time. The LO wasted his time. Duh, can’t you say, “Mr. and Mrs. Smith, can you afford the $3,000 monthly payment?”

Don’t you want to keep the client for the next loan and the refinance out of the 20% second? Hell, the freaking monthly taxes shocked them, and the 3,000 is only principal and interest. PITI is more in the range of $3,500. “Damn dude that is almost twice our rent!”

I heard some bad things about RE agents here. Maybe they are right, but I don’t waste my gas and time for someone that is not able to make the payment. Come on! I know it is tough out there but work smart.
Just Venting
K

 
 
Comment by Palisades Park
2007-03-07 10:30:10

David Lereah, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors, is ready to call a bottom. But some markets still face corrections.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/01/magazines/fortune/nar.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2007030113

Comment by Big V
2007-03-07 14:06:07

Hasn’t he always been ready to call a bottom?

Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2007-03-07 16:25:49

I’ve always been ready to call him an ass. Isn’t that the same as a bottom? :D

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Comment by Swissluxury.Com
2007-03-07 04:21:59

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/01/magazines/fortune/nar.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2007030113

AMAZING this guys gets the space to spew his stuff anymore after such a poor track record!

Just sent this response to the so called “interviewer”:

Good Morning,

Really shameful to give this guy a venue to continue to intentionally deceive regular Americans……No one short of Ebbers, Lay et al has done more harm by knowingly providing false information to the masses. The “it’s a great time to buy”, “we’ve reached the bottom”, “up in 2007” influence buying behavior that will haunt folks for decades. He is a lobbyist and proven liar NOT an economist and did not deserve the “Larry King” kid gloves interview you gave him. He told you that he knew there was trouble brewing a couple years ago and yet continued the non-stop cheerleading. Why not question him regarding his past way off the mark predictions and conflicting statements? In a few months when the housing crash pain really hits main street (take a look at nationwide foreclosure rate of increase yoy for a preview) you can think back to your missed story. His mother should be crying because she did not raise a quality person. Your mother should be crying because 26 year old bloggers are doing better journalistic work than you.

Thanks, Darryl Randall Owner
http://www.swissluxury.com

Someome needs to write a letter to the editor response to be published in their next issue.

Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-03-07 04:40:30

There is no way we’ve hit the bottom of the market on housing. Florida and California are not the only states affected. I live in Ohio where prices did not appreciate beyond a normal pace and right now Ohio is 1st in the nation for foreclosures. Followed closely by Indiana, Michigan & Kentucky. Sub prime, 100%, & 120% loans are going to create such a glut of houses on the market it’s scary. I have a friend who is an active top producing real estate agent in Ohio and she said it is really slow. They also had to pay extra in their RE dues so the association could run ads on why it’s a good time to buy. If you have to run the ads, it’s not a good time to buy.

Comment by ragerunner
2007-03-07 06:46:05

Ghostwriter,
Glad to see someone from Ohio. I also live in Ohio and are seeing many of the same things. What part of Ohio do you live in?

 
Comment by oxide
2007-03-07 08:26:23

I’ve looked at the satellite Zillows for central Ohio, and I wouldn’t live in any of the new stuff unless it was free. Incredibly ugly. it’s like I cringe at everything built after 1995.

Comment by Army No. Va.
2007-03-07 15:45:56

I cringe at most everything built since 1940 :-) . There are a few exceptions.

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Comment by txchick57
2007-03-07 04:44:46

Hey, I’ve been waiting for you to post again.

Can I contact you offline about possibly buying a watch from you?

Comment by Swissluxury.Com
2007-03-07 05:36:58

Sure, we will take care of any HBB friend who needs an even better deal on a high end timepiece….you can phone me directly at: (305) 433 5755 or Email Darryl@swissluxury.com

Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-03-07 07:45:41

Huh?

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Comment by WAman
2007-03-07 05:01:17

“And then in 2008, it will be back off to the races again in my opinion”.

What does this guy read? How could he not have seen the problems in the past week with subprime and then say business will get better? I know he has to be a cheerleader, but come on at some point you have to face the facts. Even if you take him at his word - where he says the problems areas are - those areas represent about 75% of the US population. His opinion is worthless!

Comment by Big V
2007-03-07 14:30:03

Funny thing is that he already admitted to seeing problems as late as two years back. Only he didn’t tell anyone about the problems he saw until about a month ago.

If I were an FB, I’d be looking for a class-action lawsuit to join.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Phoenix
2007-03-07 05:14:25

David “Liar-eah” says that signs show that the RE market in 2007 is picking up? Good grief! He’s dreaming again. I cannot imagine anyone now putting themselves in a position for a big fall by lying about their income just to get a mortgage on a house that is selling for more than double the 2003 price. This is a crazy planet.

 
Comment by davidcee
2007-03-07 05:39:52

Here’s my email to Fortune on the interview……
Lereah is a fraud and a charlatan, and you make the case for Fox News beating up on the Main Street Media with crap reporting on the most disingenuous
real estate economist in America. Lereah has a documented track record of spinning and out right lying about the real estate market that has cost many new homes buyers their life savings and future credit history because of Lereah’s constant hyping figures that were not true. You bring the credibility of Fortune down by not doing your homework before interviewing this scoundrel.

SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

 
Comment by weez
2007-03-07 06:25:47

i tried emailing the reporter and it said the account was closed

mike

Comment by Chrisusc
2007-03-07 07:48:47

He probably got a sh*tload of negative emails. So he shut down the email address.

 
 
 
Comment by jmf
2007-03-07 04:23:47

where are the “exits”

is private equity the new “flipper” in town? :-)

http://immobilienblasen.blogspot.com/

Comment by txchick57
2007-03-07 05:49:53

They don’t need an exit. They get their payoff up front, you know that.

Comment by jmf
2007-03-07 06:05:01

but how long can this continue?

1 or 2 years down the road we will see massive problems in this sector. and banks/investors are still throwing money after them with lousy spreads….the debt will be still there.

but i assume then the vultures will come and buy the bad debt at 30%. is already happening in germany with auto parts suppliers that were bought from pe 3 years ago…….

looks like it is often far worse to be a bond/debt investor than a stock invstor these days :-)

Comment by txchick57
2007-03-07 08:56:06

It will get a lot better to be a debt vulture if we go into recession. Love that stuff!

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Comment by not a gator
2007-03-07 10:33:25

As the stock market starts to go south, and these LBO’d companies start quaking and coming apart at the seams, the ‘eager money’ that rushed to their IPO’s will start going away.

If it doesn’t go away, I’m going to need an alternative to index funds. The problem with index funds is that they don’t screen out obvious losers like freshly minted LBO’s IPO’s loaded with debt. *sigh*

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Comment by luvs_footie
2007-03-07 04:30:55

“Toll’s Flip-Flop” will replace the Spring bounce…….

Gotta love it.

 
Comment by wmbz
Comment by luvs_footie
2007-03-07 04:39:23

From the article……………….

“Banks have tightened their lending standards, rejecting more loans of late. It’s possible that mortgage approvals could be flat or falling even with an increase in applications coming in the door.”

Comment by Big V
2007-03-07 14:38:54

Is it also possible that some people are reapplying because their first applications were rejected?

 
 
Comment by WAman
2007-03-07 05:09:32

The number of applications for loans to buy homes rose by 1% on a week-to-week basis. Oh now that is real news! A 1% increase could actually be a 1% decrease the way these numbers are calculated. Here is the big news however - Meanwhile, applications for loans to refinance existing mortgages increased 15% from the week ended Feb. 23 to the highest level seen in 12 weeks.

How many of those applications will be turned down now that subprime is toast? How many will now be just postponing the inevitable? Oh and I am so sure that these people will actually have money to pay the closing costs – Of course the appraisal may be a big problem here as well.

Comment by Chrisusc
2007-03-07 07:53:36

I dont trust those numbers. I think that what may be happening is the following: I have no equity due to HELOC (or) am subprime and no takers, so I get rejected by broker A, then I go put another app in with broker B and get rejected, then go to broker C, and so on. I call every person on every print and radio ad and no one can help me…

So in essence, the same prospective borrowers are applying all over and getting rejected. Thus the loan application figures appear as if they are not rapidly declining. The stupid borrowers think that the next guy can help them, unaware that it is the secondary market that dictates and that no brokers can help them.

 
 
 
Comment by Penina
2007-03-07 04:35:52

“Patrick Killelea & Ben Jones: Psychics or Super-Geniuses?”

http://patrick.net/wp/

Answer: both

Comment by palmetto
2007-03-07 05:17:11

Actually, we’re living in an alternate universe, where people actually have a conscience, abhor lying and stupidity and have concern for their fellow man (even if they sometimes make fun of said fellow man for pulling a boner). Ben and Patrick are magicians who have lifted the curtain between us and that “other universe” and have given us a peek at the charlatans, criminals and their victims. Here in this alternate universe of ours, we actually believe in something called “common sense” and another weird concept called “decency”. The blogs of Ben and Patrick are the windows to that “other dimension” where these concepts are unknown, showing us what happens in the less developed, savage society of “Earth 2″ where people are deprived of their common sense and businesses, the media and politicians never heard of decency. Sheesh, thank God it’s just science fiction and I don’t have to live on Earth 2.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 05:59:27

Rule # 1:

Follow the money.

Never was it so easy to see (as long as you had no vested interest) that houses were just a vehicle, the transport, in the final fiscal undoing of the industrial world.

 
 
Comment by SouthFL Renter
2007-03-07 05:58:20

Well, Ben, I think it’s time you write a book!

Of course, there’s that nasty business about there being lots of people who wouldn’t want to read it. But I’d say you would have at least 500 copies sold from readers of this blog. That would compete with the academic book market.

Here’s my suggested title: “Saw It Coming: How One Guy (And A Few Hundred Anonymous Bloggers) Called the Housing Bubble”

Other suggestions?

Comment by synthetik
2007-03-07 08:17:25

“The Smartest Guy in the Blogosphere”

“The Taming of the Lereah”

“David Lereah is a big fat idiot”

“All blogospheres are local, except this one”

“New Rules for a Modern Community: Saving People from Themselves in the New Information Economy and REIC”

“Unabashedly Pessimistic”

“Still Bearish for 2008″

Comment by asuwest2
2007-03-07 10:49:12

how about:
“It’s different here”

or
“Suzanne says…”

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Comment by Central Valley Guy
2007-03-07 12:41:17

How about “Ben Jones Researched This!”

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Sean_from_NVA
2007-03-07 04:42:18

I have three questions going into the spring time.

1. How long does it take to get a house listed?
2. What is the avg. time from signing the contract till closing?
3. If there is no spring bounce (due to tighter credit) then what happens next?

Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-03-07 05:02:16

It takes and hour or two to list a house and take measurements. Average time to closing depends on who the buyer is. Cash can be as little as two weeks, conventional financing 3-5 weeks, unconventional as long as 8 weeks. That’s providing you don’t hit any glitches with buyer financing, home inspections, or appraisals. If there’s no spring bounce, which I don’t think there will be, you better be prepared to reduce until someone does make an offer. People who wait for a better offer after their initial offer almost always get a lower price than their intial offer, and could kick themselves later. Be smart, check out what has sold, at what price within the last 1-3 months, not what is on the market now. Most of the listed prices right now are wishes from delusional sellers of what they’d like to get. If you price like them, you’ll be a disallusioned seller6 months from now.

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2007-03-07 05:07:12

I can answer #3: No spring bounce will bring a forecasted Summer bounce, then a fall bounce, then a winter one, and finally we get back to another spring bounce.

Comment by ylekiot1
2007-03-07 05:24:04

Nothing bounces when the ball is flat. Nuf said.

 
 
Comment by SouthFL Renter
2007-03-07 06:07:00

Are you looking to sell?

The real problem is getting people to come to see the home and then bid on it, not getting it listed or getting through the contract phase. If you’re thinking of selling, being successful is certainly possible. But as someone who is looking on-and-off to buy, I’d say that the only thing that would make a property stand-out is the listing price. When a 3/2 search in a single zip-code turns up hundreds of homes, price is about the only differentiating factor. If you’re in a particularly bubble-inflated place, price at 2004/2003 levels. Beat others to the botttom, if you can. It will “hurt”, but only in the short term. If you don’t, you’ll risk becoming a landlord or a foreclosure.

Comment by Chrisusc
2007-03-07 08:00:19

I wouldn’t buy anything at 2003 levels. Try 1995 levels for starters and maybe add 3% per year. Right now we are looking all over Scottsdale, AZ. We have found a home we like, but at $1.2mil is out of the question. On the other hand, if it was actually listed at $400,000 which is what it is probably worth, then I could see going forward.

As myself and others have mentioned here before, there has been no wage growth in the last 10 to 15 years in this country. Since r.e. values are based upon fundamentals, in the long run, then prices should be no higher than they were 15 years ago.

Further, there are some here who say that deflation may be coming. And if that happens, or high unemployment, then there will be wage deflation as well. Which means that the r.e. market will overcorrect and dip below 1990’s prices.

Again, no one knows for sure what will happen, but in the least case, paying 2003/2004 prices would be a sucker play. IMHO

Comment by tj & the bear
2007-03-07 23:27:09

Which means that the r.e. market will overcorrect and dip below 1990’s prices.

Except that 1990 was just past the top of the last cycle here in California, so you have to go back to early 80’s for even lower prices than the mid 90’s.

No matter… we’ll get there. Depressions tend to do that.

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Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 04:49:08

Back from a couple of days skiing @ Sierra Summit, near Huntington Lake, in the High Sierra and the snow was most excellent…

The wildflower season is starting in ernest, seas of yellow everywhere, in the Sierra foothills~

It takes us 3 hours drive to get to Sierra Summit and it makes for a most excellent drive by tour of utterly ridiculous real estate, in places that make no sense, and we are seldom disapointed. This isn’t the realm of big builders, it’s more like “hey, let’s build 5 houses smack dab in the middle of nowhere” little guys, that have done their damage.

5 houses here, 5 houses there… In the duration of a 3 hour drive, we saw thousands of spec homes that “appeared” empty.

Comment by passthebubbly
2007-03-07 04:58:30

Is that Sierra-At-Tahoe right along route 50, right before you start dropping down into the lake? If so, I’ve been wondering…

What’s up with all those vacation houses along route 50 with names like “49 Mile Tract”? Are those long-term leases form the forest service? Does that mean in 50 years or whatever the government can take the land back? They look funny, a handful of them every couple of miles bunched up together right alongside the highway. Not terribly secluded if you ask me.

Comment by Bill in Phoenix
2007-03-07 05:18:40

Sierra Summit is much further south of Tahoe. It is in the high Sierra between Yosemite Park and Kings Canyon Park southwest of Mammoth Lakes, but on the west slope. I used to ski there often when it was named “China Peak” in the 1970s. It is about 67 miles from Fresno. It is a very nice small ski area away from the Los Angeles crowd. Most of its skiers are from central California all the way to the central coast (SLO, Monterey). The Bay area folks tend to go to Tahoe. LA folks hang around the San Bernadino mtn ski areas and Mammoth.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 07:07:13

Funny so-cal skiing story…

My brother in law lives in San Diego and a couple years ago, we got together for a few days skiing @ Mountain High, in the el lay mountains and I got to witness my very 1st fistfight between el lay snowboarders and then my 2nd, 3rd and 4th ones, all in the lift lines, in the course of just one day.

I’ve skied for 28 years now, never saw anything like that, in perhaps 500 days of skiing.

Get out of the big cities, while there is still time.

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Comment by Central Valley Guy
2007-03-07 12:46:44

Holy moly, I can’t believe somebody else here remembers China Peak! My brothers and I used to ski “The Face” back then–I’ve pulled more than one “Agony of Defeat” on that sucker. But aladinsane must be talking about Fresno/Clovis and how utterly devoid of city planning that pile of stinking muck is. I should know as I fled it (although most of my family is still stuck in it).

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Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 14:13:46

I never give fresno/clovis a whole lot of thought.

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 05:30:07

Bubbly:

Sierra Summit is about 1 1/2 hours drive into the Sierra from Fresno, it’s my favorite California ski resort and it’s a big enough mountain for my tastes and has a “1969″ feel to it, updated just ever so slightly(it’s been around for 50+ years). The ski resort for Californians, from Bakersfield to Modesto, including coastal areas in that range.

Those vacation cabins are on forest service land, more than likely.
You see them all over the lower Sierra, if your eyes are wide open.
Not sure what the deal is, in terms of long term ownership.

Anybody know?

 
 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2007-03-07 05:17:28

This is a repost from late yesterday.

Lots of people commented here about the dependence of newspapers on real estate ads, having lost auto and help wanted classifieds, and how that might affect coverage. Well, evidently the bust in slamming real estate ad revenues. See here:

http://therealestate.observer.com/2007/03/housing-woes-cut-into-newspapers.html

Comment by palmetto
2007-03-07 05:30:43

Good, good, GOOD! The mainstream media is mostly worthless as tits on a boar, not providing any real news, but providing cheerleading for advertisers and pushing the agenda of government. Screw ‘em, I hope they all bite it. The MSM might as well call themselves “Pravda”, because it’s nothing but propaganda.

Comment by gsinbe
2007-03-07 06:22:53

yeah there are lots of problems there, but let’s not forget that we bloggers are a bit like the tick-birds that sit on the rhino. If it weren’t for the MSM articles, we wouldn’t have much to discuss here.

I’m not shocked that advertising concerns affect the news reporting of some newspapers - what surprises me is that some papers still report the truth DESPITE the fact that it hurts their bottom-line. How many other businesses would do that??

Comment by palmetto
2007-03-07 06:32:14

Excellent post, gsinbe. I agree with everything you’ve said.

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Comment by Northeastener
2007-03-07 06:43:42

This is going to hurt small town and regional papers much more than the big mainstream papers… they depend an inordinate amount on in-paper advertising to pay the bills as subscription revenue continues to decline.

Say what you will, but I’ve worked for a newpaper and while the advertising department may pander to the real estate and auto industry, they also produce local jobs and provide local news important to the community. If a small regional/metro paper were to go under, I doubt you could easily replace those jobs, and that is what many of these small towns and cities need.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 06:56:30

The demise of the larger regional newspaper is already in the bag…

Perhaps symptomatic with the way, the rest of country is, they trumpet their laziness, with A/P stories contributing to 80% of the reporting~

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Comment by palmetto
2007-03-07 07:10:05

Northeasterner, we have a small town newspaper here where I live and I would be very sad to see it go. It does seem to be doing well and expanding circulation.

I guess what gets me is all the hyperventilating about loss of revenue from various sectors, like media and local governments. What did they do BEFORE the boom? They were operating OK. So what’s wrong with going back to the old operating basis? To me, all these entities whining about “lost revenue” sounds like children being upset because they can’t have as many toys as they did. The housing boom was a “windfall”. Windfalls are supposed to be used to pay back debt, improve infrastructure and maybe tuck away a little for a rainy day. Windfalls are like employee bonuses. You can’t treat a bonus as if it will be in your paycheck every week (or two weeks or monthly, depending on how payment is made). Some people piss their bonuses away on “stuff”. Others pay off debt and save a little.

Our local paper will survive because they used the windfall to upgrade printing presses, streamline their operation and expand circulation. They only took on a couple of new employees and they didn’t commit to new and wasteful programs and benefits. They will suvive the coming debacle.

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Comment by implosion
2007-03-07 08:59:42

As opposed to say, some local and state gov’ts?

 
Comment by not a gator
2007-03-07 10:44:10

That’s good to hear. The newsprint industry is in a long, slow slide, and the poor level of reporting (and even literacy) is hurting them.

I don’t get a daily paper because a) frankly, most of the paper is not a good read and b) cust service was outsourced to Bangalore AND the delivery guys are absolute nudniks. Basically, that means I have to buy it at newstand, which costs more, which means justifying the price, which means going back to point a).

My paper is part of the Times conglomerate, which means the opinion section is full of windbags like Thomas “La-La Land” Sowell, Ellen “Tedious” Goodman, Thomas “Never Met A Mixed Metaphor I Didn’t Take A Shine To” Friedman, and Paul “Every once in a while you’d swear my name was Wolfowitz” Krugman.

They carry a few good names like Bob Herbert and Carl Hiaasen, but usually it’s some yawn-inducer from the increasingly irrelevent George Will, a weird screed from our local libertarian crank, and five letters about how awful the mayor, city council, homeless program, homeless problem, and local anti-war protesters are. However, by the returns of the latest election, either none of these people actually live in Gainesville, or none of them vote.

 
 
Comment by Mark
2007-03-07 08:23:03

So to save some jobs that belong to the last century or two, we should tolerate biased reporting? I haven’t touched a dead tree newspaper in many years. Also, the newsroom was taken over by left-wing statists (who else would go to j-school?) a long time ago. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

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Comment by Big V
2007-03-07 15:07:17

I’m sure there are many baby boars who would disagree with you on that one.

 
 
Comment by packman
2007-03-07 05:34:57

Yeah, but newspapers are considered part of the real estate industry, so it’s still within the industry.

Right?

 
Comment by flatffplan
2007-03-07 05:37:55

see, It’s not spreading
all contained and happy

Comment by pb_2_au
2007-03-07 09:35:14

What % of online ad revenue is being generated from mortgage and RE? I’d say a good 1/3 of the ads I see online are for refinance/lending tree etc. Pain for YHOO and GOOG coming IMO

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-03-07 12:57:29

If there is a downturn in any industry, it makes sense for advertising dollars to fall off a cliff. RE is no exception.

 
 
Comment by luvs_footie
2007-03-07 05:24:51

Jobs grow by 57,000 in February, ADP says
Weakest private-sector hiring since July 2003, survey says

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/jobs-grow-57000-february-adp/story.aspx?guid=%7B2875CC8D%2DF38B%2D4591%2D9AC2%2D7582BD329646%7D

Comment by winjr
2007-03-07 05:28:18

Pretty weak. We shouldn’t be surprised. What will be more interesting is to see how closely ADP’s report correlates with the government’s report this Friday.

Comment by not a gator
2007-03-07 10:46:43

I’m not seeing any weakness in No. Central Florida, but it’s mostly unskilled labor they need. (Still, there are quite a few skilled and clerical jobs open as well.)

The RE market here has gone soft and is heading towards rotten, though.

 
 
Comment by flatffplan
2007-03-07 05:36:27

define private
if I manke a tank in Lima OH-is that private ?
or drive a truck for king HAL in iraq for the surge ?

 
 
Comment by Hoz
2007-03-07 05:26:16

Rodrigo Rato, International Monetary Fund Managing Director

“I don’t think they (carry trades) are a danger in the sense that they reflect investors’ analysis of opportunities in the market. I think what investors need to be aware of is that the carry trade has downside risks. I think investors should be aware that even in a very benign scenario, downside risks exist and they appear once in a while.” – March 1, 2007

“A disruptive unwinding of carry trade positions occurred in October 1998, when the U.S. dollar fell by 15% against the Japanese yen in four days. I am concerned that investors and the countries into which funds are flowing are not sufficiently attentive to the risks.” – February 27, 2007

 
Comment by t-bone
2007-03-07 05:30:44

I was thinking yesterday about a post from another person pn this site. Their thought was that if the meltdown gets widespread enough, foreclosure/short sale/late mortgage payments will be so common that, if one’s other credit lines are kept in good shape, it really will not count against someone too badly in the future. It will just look like ‘another victim of the meltdown’-or at any rate lenders will have to ignore it if they want to lend out money. If true, could this actually lead to the opposite of what lenders normally expect-that the last thing people will let slip is a mortgage, and let their cc debt, car, student loans go before they would let themselves be foreclosed upon. Instead, a person would work to keep these up, and let the mortgage go first–accelerating the default rate on mortgages?

Comment by palmetto
2007-03-07 05:56:52

I’m not in the greatest of moods today, so don’t take this personally, t-bone. But I think the financial and credit world will look very different after the bust runs its course, so I don’t think it much matters one way or another. Credit has become a joke, IMHO. Even if you are someone with stellar credit, that’s no guarantee that some illegal crimmigrant from south of the border can’t get ahold of your identity and use it to “hwark” in the US and buy plasma TVs and support the babies they plop out. Credit scoring went by the boards ages ago, except nobody told the bureaus.

The system has been so badly broken by corporate criminals, I don’t think it can ever be fixed and I think people should go on the assumption that something will take its place. And frankly, I think folks like us here on this blog ought to be the ones who determine what it is that takes the place of the current Rube Goldberg system. Otherwise the same dipsh*ts are going to come up with something else that can be gamed. One site I was on advocates just paying the minimum on credit cards and not worrying about paying them off, because they believe that all debt will be forgiven in the near future, either by law or by the mechanics of social breakdown.

 
Comment by dublin212
2007-03-07 05:59:08

Good thought, t-bone. The sleazy approach would be to load up a bank account with free credit card checks, then use a HELOC to pay off the credit cards, and default on the house. It will have about the same stigma as losing on the dot.com bubble - who didn’t take a hit, after all?

Not that I would ever go down that road myself of course :) I’m the boring type with the cash to buy a house free and clear — never trusted people who wanted to loan me money.

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-03-07 06:00:15

T-Bone - I will always advise any client that if the future looks bleak and they are going to lose their house (eg. I could not restructure their loan into a workable solution) to pay other debt first. It is easier to rent with an open credit card and after BK to establish new credit. In less than 1 year after BK the FB could be buying a house again.

 
Comment by Kid Clu
2007-03-07 08:30:00

Great thought T-Bone.
I heard a scary ad last night on an Atlanta radio station. It was a Countrywide Mortgage ad for their new “Combo” loan. It’s a refi that combines 1st mortgage, 2nd mortgage, car loan, student loans and credit card loans “into one easy payment.” Whoever came up with the Countrywide Combo has gone to way to many fast food drive throughs and seems to think that what worked for MacDonalds will work for mortgages. This is a recipe for further mortgage disasters.

 
Comment by tj & the bear
2007-03-07 23:34:52

Dunno… more likely that this period of extremely loose credit will be followed by another one of extremely tight credit, and any blemish at all will nix your ability to finance anything at less than stratospheric rates.

Remember, it’s not just houses. Everyone’s buying and/or leasing cars costing more than their annual income, carrying a dozen credit cards, and buying big ticket household stuff on the “no payments for a year” plan.

 
 
Comment by txchick57
2007-03-07 05:52:12

Debt Pyramid Threatens to Topple Markets
By Jim Jubak
MSN Money Markets Editor
3/7/2007 6:54 AM EST

After Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke’s Feb. 28 testimony, one member of the House Budget Committee asked him whether the selloff in global stock markets a day earlier — and in particular the 416-point drop in the Dow Jones Industrial Average — had changed the Fed’s thinking.

“There is really no material change in our expectations for the U.S. economy since I last reported to Congress a couple weeks ago,” Bernanke responded. “If the housing sector begins to stabilize, and if some of the inventory corrections that are still going on in manufacturing begin to be completed, there is a reasonable possibility of strengthening of the economy sometime during the middle of the year.”

Absolutely true, as far as it goes. But it doesn’t go very far. Yes, nothing that happened on Feb. 27 changes the U.S. or global economic picture. But this time it’s not the economy, stupid.

What’s more important is what Bernanke didn’t say: that this time, the biggest potential danger isn’t from a slowdown in the U.S. or Chinese economies. It’s from the pyramid of leverage in the debt markets created by traders and speculators using cheap money from around the globe, and in particular from Japan.

The selloff of Feb. 27 demonstrated how a panicked unwinding of that pyramid of debt could send financial markets into chaos.

His answer on Feb. 28 was reassuring to the markets in the short term, but I worry that all it does is extend the complacency about risk piled on risk in the debt markets that got us into this fix in the first place.

Let me first run through the evidence from the market action on Feb. 27 that shows that the problem is in the financial markets and not in the economy.

Just about every asset sold off. Emerging-market stocks down. Developed market stocks down. Commodities down. Some of those assets are normally good hedges against declines in other asset classes. Gold often goes up when stocks fall, for example, but not this time. The coordinated selloff was evidence, I believe, that speculative buying had driven up the price of just about every asset class. And prices fell across all classes as traders unwound those speculative trades.

Why did a 9% plunge in a small and unimportant market such as Shanghai, largely off-limits to any but domestic Chinese investors, set off a global selloff? Leverage. If you’re using borrowed money — lots and lots of borrowed money — to buy assets, you can’t wait to see if prices will stabilize. After borrowing 10 or 20 or even 50 times more money than their actual capital, very few investors are willing to bet the future of a company on the hope that a manageable 1% decline won’t turn into a disastrous 3% retreat.

Of course, all the automatic computerized selling programs designed to cut an investor’s losses just trigger more selling, which, in turns, sets off more selling. The result is the kind of downside cascade that swept the New York Stock Exchange on Feb. 27.

While everything else, except for safe U.S. Treasuries, fell, the Japanese yen rallied by about 2%. The most likely explanation is that the traders and speculators who had borrowed in Japan at 0.5% interest rates to invest in everything from New Zealand bonds to U.S. stocks were selling those assets in local currencies and then buying yen to repay their loans. The move on Feb. 27 certainly doesn’t mark the end of what’s called the yen carry trade, but it does illustrate the role of cheap money in the current rally in all kinds of assets and the increased volatility of a market where “everybody” is making the same bet.

But the evidence isn’t limited to the market’s plunge on Feb. 27. The use of derivatives to insure against risk actually increases the amount of risk-taking behavior, which means that when something goes wrong, it will go wrong in a big way.
Don’t Stop, Just Insure
Investors don’t change risky behavior — they just insure against it. So on Feb. 28, the premiums on derivatives to insure against default in risky corporate junk bonds soared on the European markets.

About $100 billion in derivatives, four times typical volume, traded on Feb. 27 and Feb. 28, and premiums to insure junk bonds against loss for five years climbed by about $80,000 in just those two days. The prices of the actual junk bonds fell much less than the premiums rose: Investors weren’t selling the risky asset, just buying more insurance.

This works as long as there are deep pockets willing to take both sides of a bet.

The subprime mortgage market is a good example right now. Banks with exposure to the risk that borrowers will default in larger-than-predicted numbers are buying derivative insurance to protect against losses. Hedge funds, other banks and some insurance companies have been selling that coverage because they think the banks are overestimating the dangers of default.

That works to keep the subprime mortgage market liquid and functioning — no bad thing — since some lenders will continue to lend as long as they can get insurance in the derivative market. But it does set up the possibility of a swift collapse of the subprime market if the bet starts to go against the sellers of insurance and either a big seller of insurance can’t honor its derivatives or enough sellers of derivative insurance pull out, suddenly persuading subprime lenders to stop all lending.

You don’t have to look to the mind-numbingly complex world of derivatives to see evidence that the financial markets are too complacent about risk — and that it could be starting to catch up with the markets and us. The world is building up a long list of ticking financial bombs that are only kept from exploding by the continued supply of cheap money around the globe:

Latvia: This is my favorite example right now. Its economy has been growing at 12% a year, relying on the current flood of cheap money. Credit growth has been running at 60% — meaning there are 60% more loans outstanding today than a year ago — and inflation at 7%. Consumers, like their counterparts in the U.S., have kept cash registers ringing even when the country wasn’t producing the wealth to pay the bills. Latvia’s trade deficit (current-account deficit) came to about 18% of the country’s GDP in 2006. The current account deficit in the notoriously spendthrift U.S. amounted to less than 1% of GDP in 2006.

India: India is on the road to an economic and financial hard landing that would send the Mumbai stock market plunging — certainly taking other emerging markets with it as hot money flees these stock markets. Tiny Latvia is too small to inflict much global damage if it goes into crisis, but India is big enough. Its Mumbai stock market is much more important in the world financial markets than Shanghai’s.

Interest rate increases by the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, the European Central Bank and the Bank of Japan haven’t significantly cut the global supply of money or raised its cost. Too much money continues to chase too few good opportunities.

These that I’ve named — and the others I haven’t — take us to the same place: an old-fashioned credit crunch that marks the turn in the credit cycle from cheap, easy-to-obtain money to more-expensive, hard-to-get credit.
When and Where?
I can point to this evidence and these big trends and say “danger ahead,” but I can’t tell you what catalyst will trigger a turn or on what schedule. India seems likely to hit its tough patch later this year. The Japanese yen carry trade could be unwinding now — thanks to a legion of currency traders who all read the same technical charts and who have all started to get nervous because the charts show the yen at major support against stronger currencies and in an oversold condition.

But despite my inability to call the timing of this shift, I think you ought to be preparing for it now. The risk is high enough, and the reward of staying the current course low enough, that I think that getting cautious now is just prudent. No need to panic. No need to undo all your positions. I think there’s still a good chance that the Shanghai selloff will turn into a bounce and then a limited, seasonal rally running into the spring.

I think this advice from my Feb. 21 column still stands: “If I can’t find bargains right now, I’d be perfectly comfortable selling into this rally whenever a stock hits my target price. I’d certainly like to have some cash on hand as we head into the second half of the year.”

But this is the time to take action, especially if a rally gives you a chance to rearrange a portfolio without taking big losses. Notice I haven’t said a word about the economy. Currently it’s the least of my worries.

I just wish Fed Chairman Bernanke would take some time off from reassuring investors about the economy and the short run and start flagging some of the growing longer-term risks from cheap money and complacency about risk. The Fed could even do something about the problem before it bites us all.

Comment by WAman
2007-03-07 06:10:24

Thanks for the post!

But I do worry about the economy, but hey I am nobody important. If home prices continue to decline then the consumer will be taken out of the market. Then who is going to buy all of this stuff? If nobody is buying the stuff then why sell the stuff and oh yeah just a matter of time before they say why build the stuff.

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-03-07 06:41:34

“Credit growth has been running at 60% — meaning there are 60% more loans outstanding today than a year ago — and inflation at 7%.”
Latvia: GDP (purchasing power parity): $35.08 billion (2006 est.)
Public debt: 11% of GDP (2006 est.)
Current account balance: $-2.538 billion (2006 est.)
From CIA Fact Book
http://tinyurl.com/3xybx9
The numbers cited for Latvia just do not match publicly reported figures, but given the fact that the GDP for the country is smaller than many US counties a single purchase could cause a blip in the figures. LOL

 
Comment by ajh
2007-03-07 06:45:35

txchick,

The current account deficit in the notoriously spendthrift U.S. amounted to less than 1% of GDP in 2006.

Either you’ve mistranscribed, or the article’s got it wrong, because that’s simply not true. The US Net Interest Balance has turned negative within the last 18 months, so the CAD is now larger than the Trade Deficit.

I think that “1%” should be “7%”.

Comment by ajh
2007-03-07 06:47:09

Or conceivably “10%”.

 
 
Comment by Chrisusc
2007-03-07 08:06:55

Thanks for the post. Very informative.

 
 
Comment by Cosmo Dog
2007-03-07 06:06:00

Squak box-

Bob Toll came out and said they will burn off 4-5 months of inventory by summer.

Anyone think this is possible with slowing demand and the high cancellations they have had?

Comment by scdave
2007-03-07 07:31:08

Cosmo;..We have discussed this before on the board…The big builders can be Brutally competitive when their backs are against the wall….What ever demand in the market that’s left hey will go after it even at a loss…Better to just whack off the hand than a slow bleed to death….When the Elephants dance the mice get trampled….

 
Comment by Roidy
2007-03-07 07:31:29

The word there is “burn”. Sure, it’s more than possible.
Roidy

 
Comment by KIA
2007-03-07 07:47:50

Well, since it’s the beginning of March and mid-summer is July, that’s five months. So of course four to five months’ *current* inventory will be sold in four to five months. Duh. The problem is, Toll continues to build. Future inventory will continue to swamp the market.

I hate “spinners.”

 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-03-07 13:11:42

I think that crazy bastard literally means ‘burn off’ 4-5 months inventory. That’s one way to exit a crumbling market.

 
Comment by Big V
2007-03-07 15:37:13

Maybe they’ll burn off 4-5 months worth, but in the meantime another 12-15 months worth will come on board.

 
 
Comment by Tom
2007-03-07 06:06:09

I find it funny Lereah blames last month’s slow numbers on the cold weather. You don’t see him talking about January one year ago versus this, but December vs January.

When things improv, you will here him say that things are picking up (no mention about the weather).

SPIN SPIN SPIN.

Comment by tl
2007-03-07 07:28:25

Yeah, I saw that, too. You’re 100% right. He’ll always find an excuse for bad numbers, but good numbers always mean that the RE market is strong.

I think fewer people are taking him seriously these days.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 06:06:57

Anybody here ever read Barbara Tuchman’s masterpiece?

“The Guns of August”

How World War 1 got rolling, the unexpected consequences of alliances.

Same thing here, just the unexpected consequences of business alliances.

Comment by 45north
2007-03-07 08:27:03

aladinsane: The Guns of August is on my shelf. The parrallel I would draw is that prior to World War I, the Germans were determined to attack France, they did and they eventually lost. Had they postponed their attack, the advantage of their science and technology would have allowed them to just buy it in ten years. I am afraid that China is setting up to just buy America after defaltion/hyperinflation. Wake up America!

Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 08:40:33

If you were China and owned a Trillion Dollars worth of our debt and could call the shots, in taking what you wanted of our country, in payment of a bad debt…

What would you demand?

Comment by 45north
2007-03-07 09:03:01

immigration to the US

how’s your chinese?

God bless America!

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Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 09:10:31

I am partial to Chinese cuisine, so that a plus.

Funny how China and the USA have flipflopped…

China was a very sick man, addicted to ruinous Opium for 200 years and is now showing it’s mettle.

The USA is now a very sick man, addicted to ruinous laziness, after 200 years of productivity.

 
 
Comment by not a gator
2007-03-07 11:00:53

The coasts to about 10 mi in (got to hedge against rising sea levels). You get the financial centers, the ports (get packing, Dubai), the ocean-front property.

Heck, this is how the Portuguese (or was it the Dutch) ruined Zimbabwe… Zimbabwe was rich from Indian Ocean trade, but their ruling group was lazy, short-sighted, and selfish. The Portuguese took over their ports. Every so often the Zimbabweans would repel the invaders, but the Portuguese would just come back with a couple of galleons and retake the port.

They didn’t give a toss about the rest of the country, since most of the wealth was attributable to trade.

Hm, another example–The Netherlands kept Belgium poor (while they became very rich) for 200-300 years just by controlling the mouth of a river. Ports are important.

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Comment by leosdad
2007-03-07 18:26:47

not sure where you studied about Zimbabwe, but there are no ports there. No ocean either…

 
Comment by cassiopeia
2007-03-07 19:53:20

The Netherlands kept Belgium poor (while they became very rich) for 200-300 years just by controlling the mouth of a river. Ports are important.

You bet. Ask the Bolivians.

 
 
Comment by Hoz
2007-03-07 11:02:06

Why Paulson will get limited response from China:
“…Following the 1985 Plaza Accord in which the United States and other countries urged Japan to revalue its currency, the Japanese yen almost tripled in value against the U.S. dollar in three years. Corporate investment surged and land prices doubled, while Tokyo’s Nikkei stock market index saw a 180-percent rise.

By the end of 1990, the Tokyo stock market had fallen 38 percent, wiping out 2.07 trillion U.S. dollars as Japan tightened its monetary policies to suppress the rise in value of assets such as land.

“In China, the foreign currency exchange mechanism is relatively inflexible as the Chinese government is still in the process of gradually liberalizing the capital account by imposing a daily movement of 0.3 percentage for yuan against the US dollar, ” the report said. …”

In 1985 the US had mutual defense with Japan and coerced the Japanese to agree to the Plaza accord. In China’s state run economy no apparent coercion may be possible. In summary, ‘We will do what is good for China and if it helps you fine; but China first.’ or in local terms FU

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Comment by Big V
2007-03-07 15:45:39

China is in no position to demand anything from the US. First of all, if our economy collapses, they get nothing. Secondly, our society is more advanced than theirs. We currently have more advanced technology, and our system is more flexible so I’ll bet our technology edge lasts a long time.

People used to think Japan was going to take over. Now it’s China.

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Comment by peter m
2007-03-07 16:33:00

“Anybody here ever read Barbara Tuchman’s masterpiece?
“The Guns of August”

I’ve read it! Thing is Britain Never formally committed
to actually coming to the aid of france, though the British Military had drawn up plans for cooperation with French miliary staff in event of a German invasion. It took the violation of Belgian neutrality to bring Britain into the conflict.
The background causes which lead up to WWI were the French Desire to get back Alsase/lorraine, Germanys growing high seas Fleet which posed a challenge to Britains Navy, German fears of Encirclement and getting shut out of the colonial aquisition race, Balkan unrest,and probably a host of other complex reasons.
The immediate trigger events and the alliances and ultimatums which caused a chain reaction effect unleasing the mobilization of the respective armies of First Austria-Hungary, then Serbia, then Russia, then Germany, then France, then Britain, are well laid out in the Book.
BTW, I never read a real good one-volume History of the First WW, though i have read B.H. Liddell Hart’s “History of the Second WWII” 10 times. Masterful concise account by an unbiased British author and tank expert.

Comment by Steve@KFOE
2007-03-07 20:28:04

Try “The First World War”, by Sir John Keegan

Comment by peter m
2007-03-07 22:15:32

Thanks for the recommendation! I have Keegan’s ‘a history of warfare’ which I have thoroughly worn out. Brilliant exposition on the art of war. Also have clausewitz’s ‘On war’ which i have barely touched!
For Civil War buffs, ‘a stillness at Appomattox’ still the best written book ever about the final phase of the civil war, Eastern Campaign.

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Comment by Hoz
2007-03-07 06:10:28

“The current account deficit in the notoriously spendthrift U.S. amounted to less than 1% of GDP in 2006.”

The problem is that The Current Account Deficit is a running number now in excess of 7% of GDP and showing no signs of coming down. More plasma TVs anyone?

Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 06:17:06

It’s just possible, (despite quite the pitch on tv, telling you just how worthless of a human being you must be if you “still” own an old fashioned tv) that we brave consumerist amerikans, have bought all the junk we can.

Comment by Hoz
2007-03-07 06:30:58

Welcome back from the weekend ski trip - alas if I were not so old and fat I would still try to ski! Unfortunately if I were to get on a ski hill I would look like a billiard ball going down hill. With regards to the CAD - just a quick follow up, the guidance system for the cruise missiles are made in China.

Comment by palmetto
2007-03-07 06:35:46

“With regards to the CAD - just a quick follow up, the guidance system for the cruise missiles are made in China”.

Sure hope it works better than the cheap-sh*t made in China screws I bought at Home Depot recently.

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Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 06:41:20

Skiing is a great activity, one of few, where 6 year olds hang with 66 year olds…

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Comment by mrquoi
2007-03-07 12:46:42

Also one where you can go alone, yell out “single!” and, if you’re lucky, wind up chatting with interesting and possibly good looking people. Of course, if things don’t work out during the 10 minute lift ride, you can always ski the other way.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 14:19:16

My wife and I noticed that for once, yesterday, @ Sierra Summit, that skiers outnumbered snowboarders by a 3 to 1 margin, usually it’s the other way around.

I confess to liking to hang out near the bottom of where the snowbarders have jumps and obstacles, just to watch them wipe out. Similar to a nascar infatuation, in some fashion.

 
 
 
Comment by Brian in Chicago
2007-03-07 07:16:36

What I don’t understand is that, with all the cheap credit available to Americans, we seem to have a love affair with junk.

I’m a strong believer in the “pay a little more now for quality; it will last longer and be cheaper in the long run” philosophy, yet it seems that the average American, despite being inundated with the credit to “afford” the extra price for quality, has never considered this path.

Comment by scdave
2007-03-07 07:44:47

One man’s junk is another man’s value….You make a reasonable point but a inexpensive drill for me is much better than one for twice the amount that may have a very high degree of quality….The value (savings) I receive can be allocated to another item lets say; a small palm sander along with the inexpensive drill vs. the expensive one…

With that said, I agree with your premise in that I consider something like a Hummer as junk…..

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Comment by not a gator
2007-03-07 11:07:58

On that note, Detroit has bet, twice (in the 80’s and again today) that Americans would continue to buy their ‘junk’ as long as it had a lower sticker price.

They knew full well that Toyota and Honda made a better product (b/c of their better production techniques) but they used all sorts of tariffs, quotas, financing, cheapening (=less steel), and marketing to swing the balance in their favor.

The end result? Toyota is creaming GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Apparently the US consumer *will* pay a premium for a car that can be driven for 7 years without maintenance or even so much as an oil change (no kidding).

 
Comment by the_voz
2007-03-07 11:31:39

anyone who thinks the big three auto makers are in the business of selling cars is kidding themselves, those guys sell paper, and thats it….the actual steel is just a means to an income stream.

 
Comment by jrm
2007-03-07 19:42:39

I dont think that detroit makes junk like they did in the 70s and 80s. My 03 GM ($0) and 01 Ford ($500) have cost me way less in maintenance over 75k and 105k miles than my 95 Honda ($2000) did in 90k miles before it was totaled, and when I tell people this they look at me like I’m crazy, i honestly think they make a good product now, but they’ve lost the heard in a big way. It sucks for them because I think as we’ve seen with the bubble, it can take a long time to change the direction of the heard, and its probably too late for Detroit.

I also agree that they are mostly selling paper, they had to lost money on me because I go 0% on the GM and paid cash for the Ford.

 
Comment by jrm
2007-03-07 19:45:28

man I had some crap grammar and spelling up there

 
Comment by CA renter
2007-03-08 03:12:32

In the past, I insisted on buying only American cars. Now, I only buy Japanese.

IMHO, the Japanese automakers absolutely cream the U.S. I know quite a few people who drove their Toyotas (mostly those old, small trucks) over 200K and 300K miles, just like the commercials — only required basic maintenance.

I’ve never met anyone who could say that about an American car — at least not one built since the 70s.

 
Comment by jrm
2007-03-08 05:32:52

my inlaws have a 77 chevy truck with 250k and an 86 astro with 290k, no major problems on either. 2 of my old roomates had 88 and 91 chevy trucks with 210k and 190k, and another friend has a 94 camaro with 275k.

 
 
Comment by 85249 is Toast
2007-03-07 10:09:53

Some of what you say is true, but not for technology. You should be thankful that you can buy DVD players for $30, because it will be obsolete by the time you get it home and unpack it.

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Comment by Englishman in NJ
2007-03-07 06:11:39

Great write up txchick. I agree with so much of what you wrote, but let me ask you this: Don’t you agree that the Fed will raise rates soon, not cut them? This is the source of a heated argument between myself and my BIL who is chief economist for a bond house. It seems to me if the Fed eases thay are saying the $ doesn’t matter and neither does inflation - totally contrary to what BB has been saying since he got the job.

Comment by WAman
2007-03-07 06:21:08

Raise rates - thats nuts. Why would the FED raise rates when the economy is going down? Did you not see the ADP numbers this morning? If you read the posts on this site you must know that house prices are dropping. Look at lumber, sheetrock, and copper- all down 40 -50%. That is deflation not inflation!

Comment by ajh
2007-03-07 06:55:59

Against that the Unit Labor Costs for the last quarter got revised upwards to a 6.6% annualised rate of increase.

That revised number’s apparently being closely scrutinised, because it may have been affected by bonus season, but the one thing the markets will absolutely NOT permit the Fed to ignore is firm evidence of wage inflation.

And it should not be forgotten that the current rates are not “tight”, they are only “neutral”.

That said, I agree they are unlikely to raise into the oncoming storm, but they may not cut as quickly as a lot of the pundits think. In fact, some Fed spokesmen have recently made this exact point.

Comment by CA renter
2007-03-08 03:14:44

but the one thing the markets will absolutely NOT permit the Fed to ignore is firm evidence of wage inflation.
————————-
Isn’t that the truth!

I’m beginning to lean with those who say we should abolish the Fed.

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Comment by scdave
2007-03-07 07:47:52

Raise rates - thats nuts…

Ask Paul Volcker…..

 
Comment by KIA
2007-03-07 07:50:45

People continue to expect rational, non-political, objectivist decisions from a partisan, self-interested cartel which has made numerous errors in judgment in the past. Fascinating.

Comment by not a gator
2007-03-07 11:09:32

Good point–JK Galbraith’s tome Money has many examples of this.

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Comment by txchick57
2007-03-07 07:00:46

Yes, I believe rates will go up, not down.

Comment by scdave
2007-03-07 07:49:11

I agree….

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2007-03-07 08:13:16

Someone who thinks the FED is going to lower, has he put his money where is mouth is?

“That ultimately leads to the Fed cutting rates, perhaps as early as June of this year.”…
Gross, who manages the $101 billion PIMCO Total Return Fund

Gross, who was burned late last year by forecasting a Fed rate cut too early, is as convinced as ever that the Fed will have to act before long.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN0130418720070301?pageNumber=3

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Comment by nhz
2007-03-07 08:44:08

yes, and it’s scary that the bond market has the same expectation as Gross. Usually these are the most clever investors. On the other side, if they are wrong it’s going to be a VERY expensive mistake for the taxpayers etc.

 
Comment by CA renter
2007-03-08 03:16:44

IIRC, Gross has been wrong on this for at least two years — thought the Fed would stop raising rates around the beginning of 2005. Someone please correct me if this is wrong.

 
 
Comment by Civil
2007-03-07 08:43:10

Depends on how much the Fed is watching the money supply. If they are truly concerned that there is too much money and credit out there now, then they will raise rates.

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2007-03-07 09:07:49

Agree on rates going up by the end of year .

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Comment by not a gator
2007-03-07 11:10:19

And gold comes down? Heh!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by ockurt
2007-03-07 06:26:26

From JL’s blog…

March 06, 2007

71% of investment pros see U.S. housing woes likely continuing
A new semi-annual survey of investment advisers from Charles Schwab find that 71% of those polled think it’s likely that the nation’s housing market will continue to soften while 15% think that such a scenario was unlikely. The remaining 14% felt somewhere in between.

Schwab’s poll also found that investment pros polled “are less enthusiastic about (real estate investment trusts) REITs and real estate: 25% of those who now invest in REITs plan to invest less or discontinue their investments in the next six months; 17% of those who now invest in real estate express the same sentiments.”

The poll got responses from nearly 1,400 independent experts at companies supervising $347 billion in clients’ money.

Comment by Big V
2007-03-07 15:57:13

Didn’t a post last year on this blog indicate that only something like 3% of investors were expecting housing to come down THIS YEAR? Looks like these “investors” that are getting polled are no more astute than the average joe. Hell, I own a stock. That makes me an investor too.

 
 
Comment by ockurt
2007-03-07 06:27:56

Impac: We’re no subprime lender

Impac Mortgage Holdings of Irvine said media reports are crimping its stock by tossing it in with subprime lenders. In a statement this week, Impac said 99.8% of its portfolio of loans at the end of 2006 had better credit profiles than subprime, although generally not as good as prime. Impac is a player in the in-between category known as Alt A. Joseph Tomkinson, CEO, said “It is unfortunate for our stockholders that the Company continues to be put in the same category as subprime lenders, when essentially we have no exposure to subprime loans.”

The real estate investment trust also downplayed the late filing of its annual report and its disclosure that something was wrong with its 2004 and 2005 cash flow statements. It said:

The restatements for 2004 - 2005, as previously described in our Form 8-K filed on February 23, 2007, has no effect on the Company’s net earnings, cash position, stockholders’ equity or taxable income.
The stock closed at $4.87 on Tuesday, up 20% for the day but still close to its 52-week low of $4.03.

Comment by John Fontain
2007-03-07 06:56:14

If the bulk of Impac’s loans are Alt-A, of which a large percentage probably fall into that category because they are “no-docs”, then how can Impac really say for sure that hardly any of their borrowers are subprime?

 
Comment by Brian in Chicago
2007-03-07 07:25:52

Joseph Tomkinson, CEO, said “It is unfortunate for our stockholders that the Company continues to be put in the same category as subprime lenders, when essentially we have no exposure to subprime loans.”

Pump and dump, baby. Pump and dump.

Comment by Chrisusc
2007-03-07 08:09:09

Exactly.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2007-03-07 16:01:23

There is a difference between “no effect on the company’s earnings, etc.”, and “no effect on the way our earnings, etc. will be reported”.

In other words “Just because we lied, doesn’t mean the truth changed. It simply means that you cannot know the truth.”

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2007-03-07 06:33:44

As per the employment numbers, remember that the hardest thing for the Current Employment Survey to do is call a turn. Later, when the unemployment insurance taxes come in and we see what actually happened, we get a revision.

Well, the big revision for 2006 is coming out in a few days. Download that BLS data for 2006, and watch for a change.

 
Comment by W.D. Potter
2007-03-07 06:51:18

How vulnerable are RE buyers, who’ve been approved for sub-prime mortgages, to having the loan pulled prior to settlement because the lender can no longer provide the money? I would think that the mortgage commitment is only as good as the lender’s ultimate ability to access the required capital. With the recent sub-prime implosion, aren’t many upcoming sub-prime settlements at risk?

Comment by scdave
2007-03-07 07:54:52

Potter;….
We have been asking that exact question on a number of transactions over the past several weeks…We fully expect to lose some deals due to the inability of the lender to deliver as promised…The way we are hedging now is to require buyers to be pre-approved through a lender that we feel is more stable I.E. WAMU….

 
 
Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-03-07 06:55:26

If housing kept us afloat during the last recession it’s going to pull us down this one. The economists can’t have it both ways. Subprime borrowers are going to be out of the market, people who paid too much are going to be out of the market, people who used their houses as a personal bank are going to be out of the market, and people who can’t afford the prices now are out of the market. The pool of buyers are growing smaller and smaller. There’s not enough rich people to buy all the houses for sale in this country. As the market declines on housing so does the market for home supply stores, furniture stores, and even utilities as houses sit vacant. No way this is not going to snowball. They can spin all they want.

 
Comment by feepness
2007-03-07 07:28:42

My Dad is selling his house in Marrietta and my sister asked if I wanted to go in on it with her.

I told her homes were still too expensive but she replied “they haven’t gone up there”.

We live in CA (me in San Diego, her in Ventura).

Comment by Chrisusc
2007-03-07 08:10:52

Ah, Murrieta. Future home of the r.e. implosion. Two hour drive in any direction to employment areas. That is a sound investment - not.

 
Comment by CA renter
2007-03-08 03:23:40

feepness,

How can she even think of making an offer when she obviously doesn’t know what’s happened/happening in that market.

As you know, Murietta saw some wicked appreciation as a result of this bubble.

That being said, I know people in Temecula who say prices are now down about $100K in their ‘hood (still got a long way to go). One of these peole was arguing with me a couple of years ago, saying prices would absolutely NEVER go down in CA — his parents are RE brokers & they told him so!! :(

 
 
Comment by txchick57
Comment by scdave
2007-03-07 08:03:44

Chic;…Did you see Buffetts comments the other day in his annual report to stockholders ?? Page #16 I believe.. I did not read it but I saw a excerpt…Basically said that the legacy burdens & borrowing that we have done as a country can only have disastrous consequences in outlying years when the social push back occurs due to higher taxes….

This book looks interesting….I am going to order it….Thanks for the post…

Comment by txchick57
2007-03-07 08:10:31

Me too. I love stuff like that. I still have my copy of “Riding the Bear” by Sy Harding, bought in 1998. Wow, was that every prescient.

 
 
Comment by Chrisinpnw
2007-03-07 16:35:01

Here is an interview with the author.

http://www.netcastdaily.com/fsnewshour.htm

 
 
Comment by txchick57
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 08:05:32

Looking to pick up some stuff in a year or 2…

Eagerly waiting a 2 or 3 year old toyota tacoma 4×4 truck, that i’ll buy from somebody in el lay for either $2,000 or $500,000.

The vast price difference?

deflation vs hyperinflation

Comment by Chrisusc
2007-03-07 08:11:29

That’s funny. Funny and scary at the same time.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 08:19:55

I fully expect the public to sell off anything not bolted down…

There’ll be quite a few trucks to choose from and by buying in el lay, i’ll assure myself that the 4 wheel drive part of the truck has never been actually engaged, like new.

Comment by Hoz
2007-03-07 10:50:48

LOL, frankly I am looking for a newer sailboat, guess I’ll keep waiting.

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Comment by jrm
2007-03-07 19:49:18

yep you’re probably about 99% certain of that. it boggles my mind that people will pay $2000 for a decal they can pick up at autozone for $5 and 99% of the population won’t even notice there is no differential on the front axle

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Comment by tj & the bear
2007-03-07 23:46:15

It’s going to be tough passing on some of the deals that are bound to come down the pike. That said, we’ll be holding out for prime property and dirt-cheap stocks.

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Comment by Tulkinghorn
2007-03-07 09:01:06

I used to plan on buying a nice plasma TV after the crash, but given the accelerated deflation of that particular commodity, that won’t even be necessary. Still, should be some nice furniture on Craigs List.

Comment by 85249 is Toast
2007-03-07 10:06:01

I’m waiting for a nice baby grand piano. I’ve been tracking these on Craigslist for a while and prices are coming down slowly. A nice new one would go for over $10,000. HELOCed pianos that have only been used as expensive furniture are now going for half that. I’m waiting for the fire sale.

Comment by not a gator
2007-03-07 18:24:21

Books and CD’s have already come down (that was quick). Comic books should be next.

I’m waiting for a good gently used digital camera. I really need it by the end of April, but that might be too early still.

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Comment by Auger-Inn
2007-03-07 10:42:04

I’m guessing that it’ll cost 2K for the truck and $100 for a pound of hamburger.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-07 08:34:06
Comment by claw
2007-03-07 08:51:42

Many are lining up at the exits, but the doors have been chained shut. I believe the institutional traders are cognizant that the economic jig is up, only they prefer to liquidate surreptitiously and orderly. Afterward, the doors will be unlocked and the herd can have at it.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 08:56:22

remain calm, all is well.

 
Comment by txchick57
2007-03-07 08:57:10

Right. Come on, Stucco, you can look for the PPT at 2% down or more in the indices, not this flipflop stuff.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-07 09:14:33

Why would they wait for a crisis if they could continuously tweak? Wouldn’t continuous tweaking make more sense from a preemptive standpoint?

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Comment by claw
2007-03-07 09:21:12

Wouldn’t continuous tweaking make more sense from a preemptive standpoint?

Given what’s transpired the last few weeks, yes

 
Comment by claw
2007-03-07 09:23:10

Some would call it back to the status quo, viz. normal, everyday, market manipulations

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 09:28:07

For what it’s worth…

I keep in touch with a number of coin dealers in el lay and can pick their brains, quite freely, in terms of asking what the public is doing and the past couple of days have been very interesting~

All my friends tell me, that after last week’s margin calls came calling, they were pretty much net buyers of physical gold bullion, and now this week, nobody’s selling anything.

The few people that have physical gold, probably have a small percentage of their worth (5-10%) in the yellow metal, and it looks like we may have blown out all the small timers, that were responsible for the downturn.

Full speed ahead on the gold ship lollypop.

Comment by Hoz
2007-03-07 09:43:35

Agree and see the same occurring internationally.

 
Comment by OB_Tom
2007-03-07 11:30:33

Just wait until they try to sell that physical gold some years from now. A knock on the door at 3AM, and off to Guantanamo Bay. Good luck explaining where that kilo of gold came from.

OK, that was a bit paranoid, but isn’t it odd how the pieces of the puzzle fit so neatly in this George Owellian pattern, i.e. turning the US into a country of very poor and very rich? No middle class left.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 11:48:55

Gold is one of those items that needs no sales pitch…

And yes, we were deluded in thinking that “1984″ would happen, nicely on time, in 1984.

 
Comment by Mark
2007-03-07 18:23:23

Just make sure you’re one of the rich. The middle class had their chance and they blew it, and the poor are poor for a good reason.

 
 
 
Comment by txchick57
 
Comment by chiphxla
Comment by not a gator
2007-03-07 18:30:30

Awesome! Sounds a bit like ‘A Modest Proposal’ when they get into how ‘Select’ cuts should be cooked… yes, we’ll sell subprime, er, Utility borrowers to slaughterhouses to make up for the short sale. Mmm, Soylent Green…

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-07 12:28:04

The 5-year T-bill yield is signalling recession, but the stock market still finds cause for rebounding. What gives?

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates/index.html

Comment by nhz
2007-03-07 12:52:24

I think we are back to the good old ‘bad numbers = lower rates = good for stocks’ world of 2 weeks ago.

 
 
Comment by nhz
2007-03-07 12:51:09

housing bubble news from the Netherlands:

Dutch Rabobank, the biggest player in the Dutch mortgage market, announced today that it will start offering a new type of mortgage for ’starters’ later this year. Because homes in the Netherlands are now unaffordable even for starters with a good job (despite 6x-10x income loans, multi-generation loans etc.), buyers can now buy only a part of the home and the bank will buy the other part (apparently sharing the risk, but they are sketchy about the details). If the buyers income increases strongly in the future, they will be able to buy the other part of the home from the bank. Let’s add it all up: 10x income, multi-generation loan, 1% energy efficiency discount (idea from the same bank): how much more idiot ideas are available to keep Dutch home prices from falling?

After some questions a spokesman from Rabobank said that they think it is extremely unlikely that homeprices in the Netherlands will fall like they are doing now in the US (!! first time someone from the RE mob mentions the US housing problems in public over here …).

Comment by HelloKitty
2007-03-07 14:49:49

damn… and this this in the country that invented the original Tulip mania.

Will people be quoting this bubble/crash in 500 years? We’ll never know…

Comment by nhz
2007-03-08 01:59:16

don’t think so; there have been other housing bubbles in the Netherlands, but nobody remembers. The first severe one in my area was in the 1700’s … many middle class people went bankrupt because of a few years of feverish speculation in VOC stocks (VOC = first multinational company in the world). They invested their huge (virtual) stock gains in building luxury mansions outside the city when suddenly VOC stocks crashed. Most of the mansions were never finished.

 
 
Comment by CA renter
2007-03-08 03:37:35

No offence, but those Dutch bankers are a scary lot. Wow. Keep that info to yourselves, and let’s hope our financial wizards don’t get any ideas.

Sorry to hear about that, nhz. :(

 
 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2007-03-07 13:27:29

SUCKS TO BE A HB CEO

“D.R. Horton said closings will likely drop below last year’s 53,000 and it will probably continue writing down land through 2008.

“I don’t want to be too sophisticated here, but 2007 is going to suck, all 12 months of the calendar year,” D.R. Horton Chief Executive Officer Donald Tomnitz said at a Citigroup Inc. conference in New York. “Our future is not as bright as what we would like it to be.”

http://tinyurl.com/3ymwwu

 
Comment by MazNJ
2007-03-07 14:21:35

I am so so so so tempted…

*/MBA Event/*//

*March 7, 2007*

*
**The Big Idea with Donny Deutsch featuring Donald Trump*

On Thursday, March 8, The Big Idea with Donny Deutsch will be taping a
special Town Hall edition with Donald Trump. There will be a small
audience who will have the opportunity to ask Mr. Trump questions during
the show.

Stern students interested in attending the taping …

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-07 14:52:33

FBI says number of mortgage fraud investigations have almost doubled in past 3 years

By Christopher S. Rugaber
ASSOCIATED PRESS
2:31 p.m. March 7, 2007

WASHINGTON – The number of mortgage fraud cases investigated by the FBI almost doubled the past three years, reflecting a problem that is “pervasive and growing,” the bureau said Wednesday in its annual report on financial crimes.

The bureau said its mortgage fraud cases increased from 436 in 2003 to 818 in 2006, and acknowledged that its case load likely represents a small piece of the problem.

The FBI said mortgage fraud is difficult to track for a variety of reasons. For starters, the industry is not required to report fraud. Moreover, the sale of mortgage loans on secondary markets can “conceal or distort the fraud,” thereby reducing the number of cases reported.

“The true level of mortgage fraud is largely unknown,” the agency’s report said.

The bureau said fighting mortgage fraud is a priority due to the impact of mortgage lending and housing on the broader economy.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20070307-1431-fbi-mortgagefraud.html

 
Comment by Palisades Park
2007-03-07 15:01:33

Luxury home builder Toll Brothers said on Wednesday it could “burn off” its inventory in many markets in four or five months if its lower cancellation rate persists, suggesting the weak U.S. housing market may be at a bottom.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/07/news/companies/toll.reut/index.htm?postversion=2007030715

Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-07 15:03:55

Anyone who can afford a Toll McMansion already lives in one or something better. W/O subprime, I don’t see where their new buyers will come from. Am I missing something, or is this just some more spin to keep the stock price up in middair?

Comment by Palisades Park
2007-03-07 15:44:12

I don’t know - maybe they are move up buyers? Maybe they are equity bandits?

 
 
 
Comment by Chrisinpnw
2007-03-07 15:43:09

Here is a “snip” from a daily market update I subscribe to…….a comment on housing.
-snip-
March 7, 2007 — March 7 (Bloomberg) — U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said global economic growth is solid: he played down investor concern that wiped out $3.3 trillion of world stock-market value in six days. “We have solid growth, low inflation and high levels of liquidity,” Paulson said to reporters. “I feel very good about the global economy and the fundamentals.” Russell Comment — Paulson is a savvy guy, but now he’s working for the government. So what else is he going to say? Oh he could come out with something like “Sorry to tell you this folks, but we’re in big trouble. As a matter of fact, I’m thinking of relocating with my family to New Zealand.”
………………………………………………….

The so-called experts are acting as though the housing “adjustment” is about over. I’m afraid that’s wishful thinking. When housing booms (bubbles) of the past topped out, the aftermath has tended to last eight to ten years or even more. The aftermath of the recent housing bubble is about one year old. The odds are that there’s more to come — probably a lot more.

From the end of the year 2000 through the third quarter of 2006, mortgage debt increased by $14.7 trillion (that’s not billion, that’s trillion). As much mortgage debt was created in the most recent six years as all the mortgage debt of the last 50 years.

With subprime lenders now in trouble, the normal reaction by the Fed would be to lower rates as quickly as possible. But that’s not feasible today, not with the dollar on the edge, not with the US dealing with massive trade, budget and current account deficits.
-end snip-

Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-07 15:55:50

If my wife and I were younger and had the skills New Zealand demands of it’s immigrants, we’d be there in a Milford Sound Second…

Perfect isolation, in a 1st world country full of the friendliest people you’ve ever met, amazing scenery and an increasingly cosmopolitan population, that has drawn from all over the world, talented folks.

When you get off the plane, it feels like you’ve gone back in time 40 years, to a happy, simpler place, quite lefty and proud of it.

Something to check into, if you have a degree in something they are looking for. I think the cutoff age is around 30.

Comment by Troy
2007-03-07 19:16:33

cutoff is 56 according to the NZ site. Looks like they’re approving ~400 people/week with in-demand skillz.

 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-03-07 21:04:52

I checked just to get depressed and wasn’t disappointed. The only way I could qualify is under their long term skill deficiency in “University Lecturers”. I’m over educated and can’t “do” anything worthwhile, so I’m only qualified to teach. ;)

 
Comment by nhz
2007-03-08 02:06:49

it depends on a lot of things but in reality if you are 45 or older your chances to get in are close to zero, even if you have a university degree etc. I tried to move there a few years ago when they suddenly changed the rules for ‘investors’, you now need NZ$ 5 millon or so to get in and these new investor rules are so unattractive that almost no one applies (well, maybe some rich drug dealers from Asia).

Also, I think most people from the US would have a hard time in NZ. It is certainly less materialistic than the US and most of Europe, if you like to shop-till-you-drop this is certainly not your country. Most citizens need to work real hard to make a decent living. The beautiful mansions that you see around Auckland etc. are mostly owned by rich Chinese/Japanese and other overseas investors (talk to the locals and you feel the resentment).

 
 
 
Comment by Palisades Park
2007-03-07 15:55:40

Hamptons Summer Rental Season off to a Strong Start
http://tinyurl.com/2vpwge

What the article fails to mention is renrals are strong because NOBODY is buying.

 
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