Loans “Haunt Borrower And Lender Alike”
The Pioneer Press reports from Minnesota. “There may or may not be a real estate bubble in Ramsey County, but there’s no denying Ramsey County’s housing market is losing some serious air. Tax statements that hit mailboxes this week show that as many single-family homes in St. Paul lost assessed value as gained value for 2007, according to a county report.”
“It’s the first such widespread decline county officials said they can remember. In each of the previous four years, nine of 10 homes in the city gained value, a Pioneer Press analysis found.”
“The news came in the mail for people like Phyllis Folta in St. Paul. Like nearly all of her neighbors, she saw the assessed value of her home slip by thousands of dollars on the tax statement she got this week, while her taxes went up 17 percent.”
“‘I’m not happy about it,’ said Folta. After more than a decade of steady rises in her home’s value, she noticed the change immediately. ‘I have the statement right here by my phone,’ she said. ‘I was hoping the county would send something, some kind of explanation.’”
“County assessor Stephen Baker cited a number of factors in the change: Real estate investors have been pulling out of the market; first-time buyers may be sitting on the sidelines and waiting for the market to bottom out; tightening credit may be both putting more homes on the market and winnowing the number of buyers with the wherewithal to buy them.”
“‘It reflects some uncertainty in the market that we saw,’ Baker said. ‘It looks like the market is stagnating, and this is where the models told us to go.’”
“‘I’d thought we were overvalued as it was,’ said Roy Wendt’. He said the ‘for sale’ signs on his street seem to indicate a slump.”
“‘There’s no way our house was going to sell for what it was assessed for,’ he said. ‘This is a little more reasonable … but then my taxes went up 16.4 percent anyway.’”
The Journal Sentinel from Wisconsin. “With a little doctoring of loan documents, Patricia Tamillo was ‘cured’ of multiple disabilities and her meager income was boosted. Urged on by an agent for a subprime lender, Tamillo said, she signed for a $77,000 mortgage on her home in November 2004, listing herself as a ‘handy woman’ making about $20,000 a year instead of who she is: a 42-year-old cerebral palsy patient whose $569 monthly disability check wouldn’t cover the $583.90 monthly payment.”
“‘They said I’d save $300 a month (over her old mortgage) and get $3,000 cash out,’ Tamillo said. ‘To a person who’s broke, that sounds pretty good.’”
“Now, the paperwork has come back to haunt borrower and lender alike. Tamillo’s Milwaukee house, inherited after her mother’s death, is in foreclosure. Her lender, Ameriquest Mortgage Co., closed operations centers across the country Thursday amid mounting financial troubles, and is now routing calls to its Orange, Calif., headquarters.”
“Tamillo’s attorney, Catherine Doyle of Legal Aid Society of Milwaukee Inc., called the loan ‘unconscionable and unenforceable.’”
“‘They knew she was on disability - they came to her house,’ Doyle said. ‘They said she earned $1,800 a month as a handywoman, when she’s in a wheelchair.’”
“Ameriquest violated the federal Truth in Lending Act on several fronts, Doyle alleged, including not informing Tamillo that the loan carried an adjustable rate ranging from 8.35% to 14.35%, and leaving blank key portions of Tamillo’s loan papers.”
“Wisconsin has lost its reputation as a stellar borrower. The Mortgage Bankers Association reported this week that Wisconsin’s mortgage foreclosure rate hit 1.42% in 2006’s fourth quarter. That exceeds the 1.19% national average, which itself reflected a worsening trend.”
“It all comes down to greed, some industry experts say. ‘There was so much money to be made, and these companies went after it. Home prices have doubled in some cases in the last 10 years. But now these people are going down with the mortgage companies that funded them,’ said John Pawarasat, director of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee’s Employment and Training Institute.”
“Veteran mortgage broker Stephen LaDue, president of Affiliated Mortgage Corp. in Wauwatosa, sees more trouble ahead, too. Loans written in the last few years were pinned to expectations of double-digit house price run-ups that have evaporated in the year-old housing slump, he said.”
“‘The lending market in general has been operating under unrealistic conditions,’ LaDue said, ‘but the subprime market was institutional psychosis. They found a way to dress it up and sell it to (government) regulators, opening up market access to people who shouldn’t have it. And that kind of loan is epidemic.’”
“‘When it was individual borrowers losing their houses, there wasn’t much attention paid. Now that Wall Street is taking a hit, and companies are going under, the issues are coming more to light,’ said Bethany Sanchez, director of community and economic development for the Metropolitan Milwaukee Fair Housing Council.”
“A national attitude adjustment is in order too, said Dick Jungen, chief executive officer of Central States Mortgage Corp., whose loan operation is tied to credit unions.”
“‘There’s almost an inalienable right to homeownership in people’s minds these days. It’s like a national goal,’ he said. ‘The mortgage industry responded by finding different ways for people to do that, and for a while, it worked. But maybe there’s a point at which some people just shouldn’t try.’”
I know it’s REALLY politically incorrect… but turning a handicapped woman on disability into a “handy woman” on a loan application has made me laugh out loud.
My question is this: Is there no personal liability for the criminal mortgage agent who wrote this loan, he/she went to the house, he/she saw her condition, then, wrote the loan anyway.
His or her name must be on the loan papers somewhere, someone like this should shoulder the responsibility of outright lying on the loan docs.
If she sue’s the mortage broker will lose. Judges will see through this kind of BS in a matter of seconds. This is the type of case states use as examples when the try to prove preditory lending. But it’s also the kind of case senators use to try and engineer a bailout. So be careful what you wish for.
I am not talking about a lawsuit against this mortgage broker, I am talking criminal action.
I have my series 7 NASD license, and if I was ever connected to anything so blatantly false in the investment world, I could have been held personally liable.
Sure, if they participated in committing fraud, they’d be liable under existing fraud statutes. The handicapped woman would be, too, if she knew what was going on. I think that many of these “victims” we’ve been hearing about knew a lot more about what was taking place at the time than they now claim.
ADA alert- if you refuse to accept their lies they’ll sue you
First some translation. The ADA that flatffplan is referring to doesn’t have anything to do with dentistry, but is the Americans with Disabilities Act. There have been some high profile lawsuits and there is a lot of controversy relevant to building such as the requirements for parking, ramps, elevators, and other such. At the same time there are still many supporters because of the problems that disabled people have with being locked out by simple access issues. As always, instead of lashing out at the medicine, why not try honing things or coming up with something better? The ADA is not an evil plot, but a reasoned attempt to make society work for people.
If you don’t remember it, go back and read “Harrison Bergeron” by Kurt Vonnegut. It’s a short story (2 printed pages) and Google can find a number of web sites with the story.
loose cannon alert - if you don’t stick to the point, the blog quality suffers
ADA lawsuit phobia is way overblown. Courts have bent over backwards to define ‘reasonable accommodation’ in favor of the employer/business. As a result, the success rate of ADA lawsuits against businesses is 3%.
I wouldn’t call it overblown. We have an ex-con here in San Diego who has collected $500,000 a year for the last 2 years on ADA lawsuits.
I believe the Tubes had a commentary on this - or was it just my imagination?
I saw it over here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP8nGNbk7oQ
And here are the lyrics I heard:
Rampage - had a race for the house line
Spent my cash on every toy I could find
Spent time in every zip in L.A.
Sharking loans, I don’t care what the feds say
We’re loan pimps on coke
Pumping deals from the boiler room
Lock you in when you hand me the rope
Must re up, though I know you’ve no need
Loan pimps on coke
Loan pimps on coke
Other dudes are buying in the ghetto
But you won’t, cuz I’m selling you a jumbo
We’re loan pimps on coke
Fan & Fred moved to Anaheim
Toss the keys when you run out of rope
You can’t clean up, though you know you should
Loan pimps on coke
Loan pimps on coke
I go crazy ’cause my take’s so filthy rich
Have to score when I get that sweet loan shark itch
Sounds real classy, living in a chateau
So levered, all the other marks will never know
We’re loan pimps on coke
Fan & Fred buy from Countrywide
Lock you in when you hand me the rope
Can’t come clean, though I know I should
Loan pimps on coke
Loan pimps on coke
===
If you watch the video all the way through, check out the announcements on the television screen during the jam at at the end.
Pay No Attention to that Man Behind the Curtain
http://wallstreetexaminer.com/blogs/winter/?p=535
Priceless, Russ! Love the picture of EZ Al. It really exposes the ugly toad for what he is. Your analysis exposes him for what he does.
“[S]he saw the assessed value of her home slip by thousands of dollars on the tax statement she got this week, while her taxes went up 17 percent.”
That’s gotta suck.
“‘There’s no way our house was going to sell for what it was assessed for,’ he said. ‘This is a little more reasonable … but then my taxes went up 16.4 percent anyway.’”
Geez, and here I thought I was “lucky”. A few weeks ago I posted that I got my tax assessment, and my assessment showed my house went UP in value (up by 18%, which is total BS). Not to be outdone though, my taxes went up HEFTILY too.
To believe my current assessment, you’d have to join the California school of Real Estate, and tack on 10% to the highest sales price of any home within 1 mile of your house, regardless if it’s similar or not.
This is why I’m all for “save our homes”. Limit the govt’s ability to increase taxes so quickly on a longterm (30+ year) purchase.
My property taxes have more than doubled in 3 years. Good thing the purchase price of my home is exactly EQUAL to 1 year’s salary (we’re relatively frugal despite our income). this is of course why we left CA to come to MN in the first place, cheap cost of living, great state, great city, fantastic jobs. I hope we don’t Florida-ize and ruin everything.
Pure BSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBS. It’s disgusting.
The whole idea that your taxes go up because your house’s hypothetical value goes up seems a bit messed up. Where I live, your assessment never changes unless you do a renovation. Even then, they are fake numbers (e.g., $13k assessment for a $600k house).
When it comes time for the town/school district to do their budget, they just come up with their number; and figure out the total assessed value of the property, and you pay a proportionate amount (e.g., if you have $13,000 of assessed value and the total is $650,000,000; you would pay one 1/50000th of the taxes in the town).
Of course, school boards always find ways to spend more and more money, resulting in double digit tax increases; and assessments aren’t particularly uniform, but at least you don’t have to worry about two ways to get screwed each year (just the school board giving away more and more to the teachers unions).
“Tamillo said, she signed for a $77,000 mortgage on her home in November 2004, listing herself as a ‘handy woman’ making about $20,000 a year instead of who she is: a 42-year-old cerebral palsy patient whose $569 monthly disability check wouldn’t cover the $583.90 monthly payment.”
Someone will be crucified for that one. Unfriggin believable!
Yeah that’s the first true “predatory” lending story I’ve heard here.
Even if she went along with the fraud I can’t pick on someone in a wheelchair.
Bad form Ameriquest.
Apparently the wheelchair lady could no longer afford her home .I don’t jnow what her circumstances were but maybe renting out a room in her house would of been a better financial move .I don’t know how anyone could live on a income as low as this women and anyway you look at it she would of had to sell the house or go into foreclosure . The greedy loan agent was taking a piece of a women who was desperate and set her up for a sure bet foreclosure .
Also to refinance a person and charge all the fees to only give that borrower 3k was predatory . This women would of been better off getting a credit card or seeking out some service that helps the disabled until she could figure out how she was going to survive financially . This whole story is just so sick .
“Even if she went along with the fraud I can’t pick on someone in a wheelchair.”
You must not be a true HBBer. I read that story and I think, “there is still something we are not being told.” I don’t trust any of these stories in the MSM. Until I meet this woman and personally verify that her story is true, I am suspect. The MSM and FBs have brought this level of distrust on to themselves. They are all guilty until proven innocent.
I think something is not being told either . If the wheelchair lady signed the loan application knowing she was committing fraud to get the loan than she took part in a crime . The part that is sick is that a loan agent would take advantage of a person that was that desperate . To pay all the fees associated with a loan to only get 3 k is also a tell tale sign that the women was desperate .
If this loan agent took a blank loan application and had her sign it and than that agent filled in the banks regarding income after the fact than the lady is a victim.
I don’t know how the courts are going to treat borrowers that claim they are a victims if they lied on their loan application . It seems to me that a borrower that committed perjury/fraud to obtain something has lost their right to claim victim .
I’m with both of you on the not being told the whole story, but just taking the incident at face value.
I can understand the kind of crook that facilitates and profits from a greedy FB but a wheel chair and cerebral palsy take it to another level.
I used to be a cynic, then I read about some low-income home insurers’ practices. There were tales of claims agents literally showing up at burning homes with the family outside in their nightclothes. When the family says they can’t wait 90 days for the insurance money, the agent tries to help them out, and comes up with a suitcase full of loose cash (maybe 5-10K total,) Sign on the line, and you get the money tonight.
I didn’t believe this, so I asked by father (an insurance exec.) Yep, he said, happens all the time.
“Tamillo’s attorney, Catherine Doyle of Legal Aid Society of Milwaukee Inc., called the loan ‘unconscionable and unenforceable.’”
The ambulance chasers have arrived.
Don’t feel too sorry for the lady….she was physically handicapped, not mentaly. It takes two to tango. They both are at fault.
Each year, around 1,500 preschoolers are diagnosed with the disorder in the USA. There is mental retardation in 60% of the cases, due to brain damage outside the parietal, occipital, temporal or Basal Ganglia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Probably best case unenforceable contract. Someone’s gettin’ flamed.
Brand/Industry killer, IMO
Don’t feel too sorry for the lady….she was physically handicapped, not mentaly. It takes two to tango. They both are at fault.
In this case there is almost 100% chance that either the Lady is severely Retarded or has serious neurological impairments. The lender in this case saw her coming and took advantage.
The vast majority of cases we hear are generally accompanied with “they told me I could refinance when prices went up”. For these I feel absolutely NO sympathy, but when very old or ill are taken advantage of in this manner, and it happens, it is necessary to look for the “true” responsible party and make sure they REALLY know what responsible means when the law is finished with them.
Look at it this way. If she was retarded, where were the people looking after her? If she was mentally normal, why didn’t she have a lawyer look at the papers, before she signed. I feel most people like the idea of having bragging rights as to how much there house is worth. If you ask me, most of the people in this country are mentally retarded. They will do anything people tell them to do. People in this country have gotten themselves into this financial mess and deserve what they get.
I’m just wondering how the Courts are going to treat cases were borrowers were relying on the verbal assertion of the loan agents for the lender .If the Courts feel that it was reasonable for the borrowers to rely on the loan agents BS as being correct information (as a agent of the bank ), than many people might have a case .
Gonna disagree with you here on the basis of personal knowledge.
As it happens I posted over at Patricks only a few hours ago, and mentioned my experiences with a guy who is retarded, but not seriously enough to be looked after all the time.
The finance industry were all over him like a rash.
(Disagreeing with Fucharist, not Housing Wizard.)
ajh –
must agree with you here. I have a mildly mentally retarded cousin who would get pulled into financial scams all the time (especially by women who make it seem like they might have sex with him) if his two brothers did not watch his every move like a hawk.
When MR was his only problem, he did not qualify for disability; his IQ is about 75 and that’s “too high” for services. He worked a variety of part-time jobs (which exposed him to more financial predators) until cancer and diabetes were added to his list of problems and he is now on full disability.
Here’s an update on the disease I like to call “The Housing Bubble Disease”. It’s not pretty and I wonder how many people will be misdiagnosed, when in fact they are infected with this.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-chagas15mar15,0,5645224.story?page=1&coll=la-default-underdog
A fitting punishment for every developer, builder and contractor who profited from illegal labor during the housing bubble would be to force them to live in a home infested with the bug. And then wonder why they and their families have heart, colon and nerological problems. I was joking when I said that banks will one day require Chagas inspections along with termite inspections. Now that the problem is recognized by the CDC, maybe I just was predicting the future.
Globalization. And idea that really sucks.
Sounds like a whole lot of new qualified buyers to me!
Legal Aid is not an ambulance chaser. They provide legal assistance in civil cases to those who can’t afford an attorney. Most of their fed money was cut off during the Reagan admin because in CA they insisted on filing suits against growers.
Expect even more tighter lending regulations as more skeletons fly out the closet. The lending industry will fight tooth and nail but when advocates start rolling people like Tamilo up to the hearings — game over. Do you think Jeffy got a loan?
my county, Fairfax VA gave us a 1/3% break
homes are off 13 % from peak
flatffplan, I would have guessed that you lived in Florida. What’s happening with single-family inventory in NoVA? Is sales volume starting to head back up, or is it flat, or is it still declining?
“‘When it was individual borrowers losing their houses, there wasn’t much attention paid. Now that Wall Street is taking a hit, and companies are going under, the issues are coming more to light,’
And therein lies the crux of the matter. If Wall Street and its shady proxy companies (like NEW, etc.) weren’t taking a hit, there wouldn’t be any concern. And that’s where the bailout cries are really coming from.
The ONLY bailout I would agree with would be a repeal of the bankruptcy laws, putting them back to the way they were before. And also bring back the usury laws. And put a few of Da Boyz in the stocks at Ground Zero. Better yet, make it a travelling show, bring ‘em in stocks from town to town, especially the towns where people are losing homes in high numbers. Let the people vent with eggs and rotten tomatoes.
We appealed our assessment for the first time - since 2002, our SEV (State Equalized Value ) has gone from approx. $ 74,000 to $91,930. In Michigan ???!!! IN THE DETROIT AREA ????!!!! They’re dreamin’ ! (Double the SEV and you’d get what they think the house is worth ). If we could sell the house for what the SEV says it’s worth, we’d take the money and run. I think we’ll get the SEV reduced, but we won’t know until June. Luckily, our mortgage payments are fairly low, even with the tax burden. Houses similar to ours in our sub are either in foreclosure, or are selling for $20,000 less than my husband paid for this place. We have deep savings, ( everyone laughed when we were such cash hounds, so we really don’t have a problem ). I don’t know what the people who are all extended are going to do….
” I don’t know what the people who are all extended are going to do….”
They will max out the credit cards, try to take out every last available bit of equity from their homes, hope for a massive turn around in the auto industry…..and when all of that falls apart they will sell whatever they can to raise enough money to move down south, where they will file BK and start over again. And they will mail in the keys whenever they can’t sell the house for enough to pay off the mortgageS.
And unfortunately a lot of them will be too old to really ever recover from the fall out.
I do feel bad for a lot of the folks in Michigan that are having their lives totally destroyed due to a faltering economy, but I believe that a similar dark cloud will probably be showing up over a lot of the rest of the country as the fall out to the housing bubble continues to spread.
The Greed and stupidity of a minority of the people in this country are going to make for a world of hurt for everyone once it all is said and done.
“I do feel bad for a lot of the folks in Michigan that are having their lives totally destroyed due to a faltering economy…”
But for those who are willing to adapt, improvise and overcome, the outcome is usually pretty good. I briefly worked P/T for a family-run HVAC business before we left Florida. The owner had been an hourly GM employee who took a buyout, went to community college, moved to FL, started working for another HVAC company, and then started his own business. He’s doing quite well, thank you.
Amazing what a little planning, intelligence, hard work, and determination will get you. That is what makes America truly a great country. (Yes, there are plenty of things that make America crappy, but from my discussions with inlaws and family, the chance to succeed based on your smarts and hard work are traits not found in all countries around the world.)
Some folks in Florida are pretty pissed about their assessments, too. It was OK as long as there were buyers and money to be extracted, but now, they are not too happy to see the local govmint jack up assessments for taxes, while the real street value of their property tanks.
Being from Michigan, you should know that the state, county, city and townships are in financial trouble and your taxes have to be raised. I think we will see more people moving out of Michigan.
I agree, Futarist. Although Michigan is one of the best-educated states in the country with our very nice network of major state universities, there is already a tremendous brain drain. Young people are going elsewhere to start their lives in droves. We were driven to the airport in one of those sub-limos ( $ 28 ride, cheaper than parking for 14 days at the airport ) by a newly-graduated attorney who couldn’t find a job attorney-ing. Eventually, he’ll probably take the boards in another state, and move. I know an analytical chemist with 30 years of industrial experiance who is back in school getting his Ph.D in pharmacy ( I’m married to him ) because he can’t find anything but temp work for $12 per hour, etc., etc. Michigan is just at the forefront of the rest of the country, I’m afraid, with exacerbations by the unwise Big 3 auto manufacturers and the overly generous contracts obtained for its members by the UAW. I know the state is in trouble partly because of these woes, but our homes are 1/3 the price of the rest of the country, and we have foreclosures up the wazoo. I’m just waiting for the financial meltdown for the “Real Housewives of Orange County” and their ilk, with their multi-million dollar homes and mortgages. Two of the women are complete ho’s, and two are very hard-working self-employed women. Only one has a decent marriage with a husband who will probably stick around. Living with your wealthy boyfriend is probably not a good life-plan, but oh well, as long as you can hoist ‘em up, let it fly ? I don’t get it with my midwestern mindset, but oh well. Not my problem or my mortgage or my consumption habits, either…..lol. But, yes, the scenario about people hanging on for as long as they can, maxing everything out, and then moving south and filing bankruptcy is being played out by the thousands here. I have an article in the Detroit News or Free Press from Feb. that says that 11.9 percent of the state’s residents are receiving food stamps, up from the usual 5.7 percent. I told my financial guy this, and he flat-out didn’t believe me. I told him I would bring him the article the next time I see him.
And I agree w/ KenWPA, Bill, & Palmetto. You all contributed to the ideas I was expanding on above. It’s interesting to be living through it, and be at least somewhat untouched. I am amazed by some of the ill-thought out responses that people are making to their situations.
exacerbations by the unwise Big 3 auto manufacturers and the overly generous contracts obtained for its members by the UAW.
Damn straight - if only those greedy union members would work for $3/day like the Mexicans do down South of the border then Michigan would be a paradise. And whats up with those union people wanting medical insurance? Sheesh, talk about greeds SOB’s. Just think how much they could pay those CEO’s if they could cut that pesky health insurance!!
Our SEV and taxable went down by almost 10% - but we bought in 2005 (downsized). Someone I work with who bought in 2003 in another eastside suburb also saw a decrease.
Since it’s now topical again:
An update on the RE investors on my block.
1) “the russian”. For those of you who don’t know, “the russian” is this guy who came in and bought a house right behind me (we share an alley), tore it down, built a brand new house. It sold in days (for $300,000 more than any other house ever on that block). This was in late 2005/early 2006 I think. A woman came to him from the same block and said “you want my house?”. He did, so he bought hers, tore it down, and built another house. He sold that one within 1 month or so. Then the russian bought a 3rd house (but had to pay way more from what I hear, the first two were relative steals). He tore that one down too, and built the biggest house yet. It sits on the market now for over 2-3 months, nobody even looking.
2) the RE investor across street from me. A woman lived there, divorced. She couldn’t sell her home (as a divorced woman with two unruly kids, the house didn’t show well). FInally, the house sold Spring 2006 to a renovator, for $100,000 less than even I thought it would go for. I thought he would be a flipper, but he actually did a good job. He replaced all the windows, the doors, changed the layout, put in new floors, put in new furnace, etc (a full rehab) so he IMO did a service to our community. He put the house on the market in September of last year…. nothing. SO then he put it up for rent. renters came- he’s had 3 renters since October. Most recent ones: weren’t shoveling the walk, so he got $1500 in fines.
This week I see a real estate sign in the front yard. Guess spring rush is ON. there’s no price (not even on MLS or on the website it’s listed on).
The 2 RE moguls in my ‘hood seem to be getting burned right now.
For both of them: it’s their full time job. Both have a lot of experience. And both have between 10-15 projects going on at same time.
I know the russian has 4 other empty brand new properties he just built (so holding carrying costs) right now.
I know the across-the-street dude and he said that all his rentals are doing really poorly. he’s bleeding cash.
Oh, and I never thought about it before, but we have 3 realtors on my block too. (a hubby-wife team, and then a guy whose dad owns an agency).
1500 $ fine for not shoveling
what people’s republic is that in ?
MN. (Mpls to be exact)
To be fair: the $1500 fine was actually several citations for shoveling. It wasn’t one time, it was for several “infractions”. (maybe like 10 or something? it only snowed a few times this winter, and only 5-6 times where it was shovelable. so couldn’t have been more than 2 citations per storm)
the flipper has the misfortune of having his rental house right next door to the only crumudgeon on our block, and she’s a doozy. She’s 87, still working full time. She SHOVELS her walk herself. She goes for walks in sub-0 weather. And she’s a class-A hard as nails B*TCH.
Last summer, she walked around the flipper’s yard with a video camera and a ruler to measure how high the grass was. She also video taped every nail or other dangerous item left behind on the worksite.
She calls the police every time that walk isn’t shoveled within 24 hours.
Question for your landlord acquaintance - why doesn’t he hire a service ? We pay $ 200 seasonally for ours, and they shovel as well as plow the driveway. $ 1500 would pay for a lot of snow shovelling. Actually, this year we contracted for ” by the push “, and only had to pay $ 60 for the whole winter ( not much snow, just cold this year ). Easy-peasy for not getting a heart attack.
I gotta say if I was shoveling at 87 I’d have a hard time seeing people a quarter my age refusing to do it.
Okay, Clouseau, I guess you live in St. Louis Park or maybe Richfield. You are definitely on the north side of the Twin Cities. You take 35W to work and it’s a nightmare. You have never been to St. Paul or even know where it’s located. If somebody asked you how to get to Hastings you would lock up and go into cardiac arrest.
How close am I?
Too funny!
Not quite.
I live near Lake Harriet and Lake Calhoun just off 36th st south. (So SOUTHWEST mpls baby!) I do take 35W to work, but I get on and the first exit is 94, which I take to work just across the river from Downtown St. Paul (so I go to St. Paul every day). I leave for work at 6:30 am and come back around 6:45pm, so my drive isn’t too bad, but it would suck if I hit rush hour.
I live in what most folk would call “uptown”. In the past, it was bohemian and artistic and gay and urban-liberal. Now it is high end and bourgeouise and now high-end liberal, with smatterings of the “old” crowd who have held on, but most have been pushed eastward. I personally liked the old version of uptown better. but that’s what all people say: change is hard.
My neighborhood used to be working class, but now it’s doctors and lawyers and what not. (change happened in the last 5 yrs or so)
That said, I have no idea where Hastings is… I would probably have a heart attack if I went there though!!!!
Most of my life in the Twin Cities is:
1) walking around Lake Harriet/Lake Calhoun/Rose Garden/Japanese Garden
2) BIKING around all the WONDERFUL bike trails that this metro has to offer. It is some of the best metro-bike trails I’ve ever ridden
3) walking around my neighborhood, and walking into Uptown (Lake and Hennepin) area
4) walking to all the local cool restaraunts near my home
I rarely go to the suburbs, except for Hopkins once per few months to go to the cheapie $1 movies, to St. Louis Park to go to Costco/Target, and rarely to Edina for their mall (once per year)
I go to St. Paul a lot for work, and I like Summit/Grand ave so eat there a fair amount, and I love the new Menards on University in St. Paul.
I hate shopping. Not a consumer!
I try to get to all the relatively unique areas of the metro area, but that doesn’t include the suburbs much, because they’re… well… uh… suburban!
Actually, the issue I have with many of the suburbs is that they’re all the same. Stillwater is ok because it’s not cookie cutter. And I like Redwing and Northfield (not really suburbs, they’re a long way away), but places like Maple Grove, Woodbury, Hastings, Chanhassen are NOT for me!
I enjoyed seeing the impression I give off though! Thanks.
ROFL!
From your posts I thought you lived in the Lake Harriet area.
We have friends in Mpls. who sold their personal residence in fall 2005 because they figured it was the top of the market. They cashed out and are renting. It was a good decision for them because they had no real retirement savings & want to move back to Wisconsin in the next few years anyway. Mpls is such a nice city, and it certainly had its run with housing prices - although it didn’t get as crazy as a lot of places. Interesting that your two full time flipper neighbors are getting caught with several properties.
the “Russian”. Some reason I have visions of “Borris the Blade” from the film “Snatch”. http://www.homevideos.com/revaa/58b.htm
One of my favorie movies.
(”Ya like dags”…)
Just wait - it’s almost spring and the grass will be growing tall on all those foreclosed properties. I heard our city mows them when they get real unsightly and adds the cost to the property tax bill.
I’ll say it again You CANNOT commit Fraud unless your FRONT LINE Employees are the DUMBEST ONES YOU CAN FIND.
The Loan Officers brokers etc, CANNOT have any critical thinking skills, hopefully they DONT READ, and are just Dumb Gamer Guys, or Shopa-holic Clueless Paris Hilton clones.
And of course they must be GQ CUTE,or just jiggly and giggly.
The Last thing you want is someone like me GS TXchic etc working for you, we would be whistle blowers in a split second if we suspected any type of fraud.
You wouldn’t want me working for you in any capacity
I have a problem with authority figures and don’t take direction well.
Never would have thought that…
>>“‘There’s almost an inalienable right to homeownership in people’s minds these days. It’s like a national goal,’ he said. ‘The mortgage industry responded by finding different ways for people to do that, and for a while, it worked. But maybe there’s a point at which some people just shouldn’t try.’”
Once again, the immutable Law of Unintended Consequences demonstrates why the government cannot engineer social change through economic policy. Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty created a class of chronic dependency and a permanent underclass, while nearly destroying the family structure in the minority community. FDR’s New Deal caused the Great Depression to drag on until WWII came along. You’d think that a Republican president would know better than to launch something as absurd as an “Ownership Society”. Ownership is a reward for hard work and savings, not a government entitlement. The previous rate of home ownership in the U.S. reflected a market in balance. Government efforts to boost ownership among subprime renters simply created the classic “demand shock” you learned about in high school economics, flooding the market with easy money and driving prices up. In fact, this strategy had exactly the opposite effect of that which was intended: it made housing more expensive for low-income buyers and drove them to commit financial suicide taking out loans they could never afford to repay.
If the government was dead-set on monkeying around with the market to try to achieve social goals, they would have been better off focusing on the demand side; i.e., creating tax incentives for builders to incent them to build more homes, while keeping liquidity level. In other words, if they wanted to make housing more affordable, they should have shifted the supply curve to drive prices down, rather than driving them up by shifting the demand curve. Better yet, they should have just let the market take care of itself.
double bingo
what was “unemployment” in 1776 ?
“Better yet, they should have just let the market take care of itself.”
Testify! And that’s what they should do now, just let the market take care of itself, repeal the BK laws and re-institute the usury laws, nothing more. That’s really all they’d have to do. No bailout needed.
I couldn’t agree with you less. You blame the depths of the Great Depression on FDR? Do you have any idea what created the GD in the first place? Have you ever read any books on the topic, or are you just spouting Right-Wing nut-case propaganda?
The canard that WWII ended the Great Depression has been around so long and repeated so often people believe it. Nothing could be further from the truth and Smedley (love the name) T. Butler’s “War is a Racket” will quickly disabuse anyone of the notion that war creates prosperity. (War Rations, anyone?) It might create the “appearance of prosperity”. Interesting how all sorts of money “magically” appeared for the military industrial complex that didn’t appear during the Depression.
In any case, what really lifted the mass of Americans out of the Depression was a partnership between Hollywood and Madison Ave. and the real production of the American people.
Excuse me, but even my rabid Democrat parents admitted that WWII brought about the end of the Depression. The government went into defecit spending BIG TIME, buying stuff like ships, tanks, fuel, food, etc. There were over twelve thousand (yes, 12,000) B-17s built, and that’s just one type of aircraft. And of course government employment also went way up (Army, Navy, Marines, etc.).
FDR didn’t cause the Depression. The only policies of his that helped end it were his successful efforts to get us into the war (Lend-lease to England, embargo of Japan, etc.).
Too bad revisionist history is accepted so easily by our gullible public.
Thanks, Bill, you just illustrated my point. The money just “magically appeared” for the war and the military industrial complex when it didn’t appear during the Depression. Deficit spending. Deficit being the operative word. Where was all that deficit spending during the Depression? The “deficit” spending just masked the continuation of the Depression into the war.
And how were those deficits made up after the war? By the production of the American people, encouraged and sold by Hollywood and Madison Ave.
Yep, revisionist history is so easily accepted by our gullible public. Rah-Rah, sis-boom-bah-humbug.
So I’ve been wondering….where did the money from WWII come from?
for WWII
Carrie Ann, don’t know if you’re still around. I’ll try to catch up with you in another thread. As Bill said, money for WWII came from deficit spending, same place as the money we’re using for Iraq. In other words, borrowed money, debt. Apparently, the lenders (whoever they were, international banks, etc.) back in the day were willing to finance war. They were apparently not willing to finance peaceful and productive enterprise, even though there were plenty of Americans desperate to work during the Depression.
“Does anyone know what Vice President Bush called this in 1980? Anyone? Something-d-o-o economics. “Voodoo” economics.”
“Bueller, Bueller, Bueller.”
d-o-o economics. Doo economics. I like that better. Trickle down, baby! That’s the ticket! Look what Da Boyz are trickling down.
The loan agents know what the rules are with loan applications . The fact that management didn’t check the work of these agents or didn’t impress upon them that perjury and fraud is a crime that they could be liable for is the question .The loan agent does sign the loan application I believe .
A loan agent can’t control a borrower that commits fraud on a stated loan ,but in alot of these cases the agents helped the borrowers commit that fraud.The commissions were just to big on these loans for these greedy loan agents to resist . Why the management/underwriters/appraisers of any given loan company rubber-stamped this junk is the question . In prior loan cycles management always knew that borrowers were liars and loan agents had to be double-checked because they were on commission .
It just goes back to everybody was sleeping on the job because it was a high volume mania in which loans were made based on real estate going up . I would love to know how many loans didn’t even get a first payment paid with some of these lenders .
And then they had a big party that concluded with a wild orgy under the sign that read, “The Best Damn Mortgage Company. Period!”
“a retired Ramsey County accountant who lives with his wife, Delores, in the home they built in 1950, just south of the Ford Motor Co. plant in Highland Park.”
Unfortunately, I believe that will soon read, “just south of the former Ford Motor Co. plant in Highland Park.” I think that is the truck plant that is slated to close. This will be a big blow to the local economy. The manufacturing jobs are leaving. House prices in some areas of the Twin Cities should have gone down, not up.
Thank god Minnesota is not on one of the coasts where there was actually a bubble.
Yep.
Ford closing for sure. I think in 2008.
I have a few patients who work there.
MN has it’s own bubble. Not as bad as elsewhere, but a bubble.
our only saving grace is:
1) income is relatively high here
2) COL relatively low
thus, for the most part homes are still affordable, even with 30 year fixed rates.
of course, throw in a recession and all bets are off.
we will fall, but I don’t foresee the carnage as I saw in my old state (CA).
the big difference: affordability.
Remember, our incomes are HIGHER than they are in California, and yet our median home price is 1/3rd.
Image Californians, if your local RE fell by 60%. You would buy in a heartbeat, even with your incomes.
That is our situation.
No question there is a bubble. I saw it myself in my home. (my house tripled in value in 10 years, doubled since 2002).
but many areas went up around 40-50% in the last decade. And incomes kept up.
That said: new construction and condos will fall HARD. Those are NOT affordable. Whereas a used SFH may cost $300,000 in an area, a new condo might cost upwards of $500,000 on the same block, and a new SFH might cost upwards of $750,000 on the same block.
I wrote earlier: in my neighborhood, you can buy EITHER a 2000 sq ft CONDO for $3,000,000 on Lake Calhoun, or a 4000 sq ft 100 yr old HOME for less.
“‘There’s almost an inalienable right to homeownership in people’s minds these days. It’s like a national goal,’ he said…
From So Cal - an ad in this mornings paper touts houses in Victorville 5 1/2% fixed rate ten years, 1.5 origination fee, $1,512.00 per month, home value 329k, credit 620, Cypress Homes.
The saga continues…..
HW:
I think you have it backwards…..You go out and hire the dumbest LO agents,Management, then when the SHTF, you can claim they were too dumb to know any better. (or they were POORLY trained).
And you trot out those wonderful real estate agents LO’s, named: Biff and Buffy and Joe Six Pack and Mary the Soccer Mom, we can all feel their pain, how could they have known it was fraudulant to write in anything for income?
I don’t think the loan agents were that dumb ,amoral and greedy maybe . I think management tries to hire people that they think have sales ability for front line loan agent jobs. If the agents were poorly trained wouldn’t the company be responsible in the final analysis . I think the reason why the gov. is looking at bail-outs is because I think they know how vunerable the lenders are to liability . I don’t dispute that a high % of the borrowers wanted to just get in the real estate game and it was greed that made them doctor up their loan applications .
tries to hire people that they think have sales ability for front line loan agent jobs.
——————————————————–
I agree on amoral and greedy, but I wonder how much of this “sales” ability was based on enhanced boobs and GQ looks?
I know here in NYC on Craigslsit there a lots of jobs posted daily that you have to send in a picture or they wont consider you. Yes Loan officers, agents, even now Disc jockeys.
Your post is interesting aNUCdj. I don’t know what to say . Are they looking for movie star looks these days for a financial job?
YES EVEN FOR A PARALEGAL JOB………..PHOTO REQUIRED
Bright Student Required for Detailed Presentation (West Village)
Reply to: bustermagee@gmail.com
Date: 2007-03-17, 10:43AM EDT
Need one or two articulate students (law, business or communications) adept at simplifying complex, at times arcane documents, so the conceptual essense is easily understood.
Sorting of documentation by topic and/or date with cross referencing, creation of significant event timeline and succinct explanatory recaps required.
Familiarity with gay issues, employment matters and Sarbanes Oxley is very helpful- not required.
Intensive focus from today (3/17) through Thursday (3/22) and possibly weeks beyond.
Please send recent face photograph and background details with contact information.
Here’s where our major bubble is. New Construction.
Compare:
http://tinyurl.com/yw36fv
Condo:
2626 W Lake Street UNIT 601SE
Minneapolis, MN 55416
MLS#: 3296883 Status: Active
Price: $3,500,000
5800 sq ft, ON a very busy pseudo-highway (the lake is on the other side of the pseudohighway)
—————————–
VERSUS:
http://tinyurl.com/23deh7
1901 LOGAN Avenue S
Minneapolis, MN 55403
MLS#: 3132805 Status: Active
Price: $3,400,000
Single Family Home. Awesome established “rich” neighborhood. 11,000+ sq ft.
(FWIW: this house is relatively near the infamous “Mary Tyler Moore House”)
Wow! That second one is nice. I think I will move back.
“Loans haunt lenders and borrowers alike”
The latest loan request I have received is for $50K, from someone who is actually putting $90K of her own into the property. In my view, a tin can in a trailer park is not worth $140K, even if it has a built-on “Arizona room”, and even if they have recently been selling for that much and more. RADICAL tactic: I told the lady to read this blog for a few days.
I told her I was not afraid to lend $50K on the property, as I would be the senior lienholder, but I just thought she might want to postpone the construction part until contractors are a little hungrier. She said she did read parts of the blog. THERE’s progress for you.
You guys have to see this - Veridian homes is giving away a free garage door opener if you buy one of there boxes before April!!!
http://madisonhousingbubble.blogspot.com/
Went to Parade Of Homes yesterday.
Traffic was lighter than normal, but only slightly lighter, maybe about 90% of what I’m used to.
To my consternation and confusion, a lot of the high end stuff we went and saw was SOLD.
The “Carlyle” is a cool building, a new sky-rise condo tower in downtown, it had around 250 condos priced from $480k (small 1BR on lowest floors) to the millions. It was 90% sold. (for real, not just offers, but closings). that said, it is one of the better projects around town. Also, the pricing was decidedly LESS than I thought it would be for that building. I was thinking 1 BRs would start in the 600k range, so I think they’re dropping the prices. (some of those sales could be flippers though who can’t sell right away?)
We saw 2 other multimillion $ properties in Mpls, and they were both SOLD (this is atypical in my experience with Parade Of Homes, that so many were sold).
Saw a tacky Mc-Mcmansion (wasn’t even as elegant as a mcmansion) in a weird neighborhood selling for $900k. surrounded by very low end post-war bungalos, and shares a yard with a house surrounded by chicken-wire. good luck with that.
We then went way out into a horrendously ugly farm ranch in woodbury, asking price 2.5 million for 20 acres (it is in middle of nowhere). That one hadn’t sold.
Thus, I was surprised by the numbers of people out and about there, as well as the number of SOLD properties. Asking prices were all over the place. I think the smart guys are lowering prices and selling, the small timers or the stupid builders are adding 10% to last year, and sitting.
We also drove by so many high rise “condo pits” (the hole in the ground where a new “luxury” tower is supposedly going to be built) that we lost count.
They all had stupid sounding names like “Pinnacle” and “Track 29″ and “the Loop” and “skyscape”
the salespeople there are desperate.