“The Repercussions Are What’s Happening Now”
Inside Bay Area reports from California. “Irene Pena is buying her first home, a three-bedroom house in San Pablo priced at about $500,000. She was scheduled to get the keys to her house this week, but instead she learned 10 days ago that her loan had fallen through because the lender changed its criteria.”
“‘There will be some customers that qualified even a week ago, and this week there’s no place to go with that loan,’ said Jim Svinth, COO and economist at LendingTree.com.”
“Pena’s seeking 100 percent financing using a combination of a first and second mortgage, and applied for the loans using a ’stated income’ process, because she cannot document her full income using pay stubs or W2 forms.”
“Her real estate agent, Gema Smith in San Jose, said Pena’s credit score is very good, but the lender denied the loan at the last minute because Pena works for a janitorial service and cleans houses as a side job. Smith said lenders are suddenly balking at making loans to workers who can’t easily document their income, even when they have good credit scores. Two other adults in her household will be contributing to the mortgage, but they lack income documents, too.”
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
“Many in the mortgage and real estate industries say changes to lending criteria are overdue. ‘It got to the point where it was easier to buy a home than it was to buy a refrigerator,’ said Rigo Bracamontes of Intero Premier Team in San Jose. ‘The highest priority was to make the loan.’”
The Visalia Times Delta. “Mirroring a suddenly alarming national trend, home foreclosures in Tulare County are on track to break records in 2007. According to Julie Poochigian, Tulare County chief deputy clerk/recorder, in the first 2 1/2 months of 2007 her office recorded 408 notices of default. That’s more than double the number from the same period last year.”
“If those numbers hold steady through the rest of 2007, Poochigian said the county would eclipse the annual all-time high of 1,601 foreclosures, set in 2001.”
“Gaylynn Heitzig, president of the Tulare County Association of Realtors, said it was still too early to tell how the recent increase in foreclosure activity will affect the local real estate market.”
‘”When you look at the numbers so far,’ said Heitzig, ‘our county really hasn’t been inundated with foreclosures yet. Whether that wave might be coming or not, I don’t know. It’s going to be an interesting year.’”
“Signs of growing trouble for homeowners struggling to pay their mortgages began appearing here last year. In the fourth quarter of 2006, foreclosures across the county shot up 109 percent compared to the same period in 2005.”
“‘Lenders are very nervous right now,’ said Brad Maaske, owner of Realty World in Visalia. ‘Suddenly they have to look at all of their portfolios and try to figure out what percentage of loans out there are bad.’”
The Sacramento Bee. “In another indicator of the turbulence buffeting the subprime mortgage industry, as many as 300 Sacramento-area Ameriquest Mortgage Co. employees were issued pink slips Thursday.”
“In announcing its downsizing, Ameriquest’s parent company said it was necessary to rein in costs and increase efficiency amid the current turmoil. ‘This is a very challenging non-prime market. Only companies with the ability to control costs and improve loan quality are going to be successful,’ said the statement from ACC Capital Holdings.”
“The subprime industry ‘kept the real estate boom going longer than it should have, and the repercussions are what’s happening now. It’s pretty scary. It’s really scary,’ said Bob Bader, head of Arden Mortgage in Sacramento. Arden Mortgage is not a subprime lender.”
The LA Times. “The parent of Ameriquest Mortgage Co., once the biggest provider of home loans to Americans with checkered credit, fired a large number of its workers Thursday and closed six operations centers around the country in a bid to survive the shakeout in sub-prime lending.”
“On Thursday afternoon, parking structures near the office towers of Ameriquest and sister company Argent Mortgage Co. in Orange were less than half full. At Ameriquest headquarters a few miles away, the 11-story building appeared deserted, with packing boxes strewn about the corridors.”
“‘Oh well,’ said a receptionist who wouldn’t give her name. ‘It’s sad, but it’s happening all over the business.’”
The Union Tribune. “Beleaguered San Diego mortgage firm Accredited Home Lenders gave itself some breathing room yesterday when it said it had agreed to sell $2.7 billion in mortgages to undisclosed buyers.”
“But these buyers are coming forward at the bargain prices. Accredited said it was selling the mortgages at a ’substantial discount.’ The company expects to take a one-time charge of $150 million related to the sale of the loans.”
“Accredited also is setting aside a reserve of $40 million to satisfy any future claims against the loans, including potential defaults.”
“Late yesterday, the San Diego law firm of Lerach Coughlin Stoia Geller Rudman & Robbins filed a class-action shareholder lawsuit in U.S. District Court against Accredited. The lawsuit alleges the company has made false or misleading statements since November 2005.”
“Accredited also is continuing to seek waivers and extensions of waivers of financial and operating covenants from its warehouse lenders. ‘There can be no assurance that the company will be successful in receiving any of the required waivers,’ Accredited said in a statement.”
The Recordnet. “Sales of existing homes continued to slip in San Joaquin County, falling to 251 last month from 270 in January, the lowest sales level since the past decade.”
“Last month’s median of $395,000 is down 7 percent from a high of $425,000 in December 2005.”
“‘Baby boomers are buying what they want, and the lower end, where you have the 100 percent financing, is slowing down,’ said Bruce Davies, co-owner of Partners Real Estate in Stockton. ‘They are more afraid because the house could still go down in value. So they’re not stupid. If I were a lower-end buyer, I wouldn’t buy right now.’”
‘Home forclosures in the United States being reported by the media likely understate actual foreclosure sales activity, according to Foreclosure Radar.’
‘According to the company, February saw 4,171 foreclosures with a total loan value of $1.64 billion for distressed properties sold at auction in California. This dollar volume surpassed the prior record reached in the third quarter of 1996, and represents a 48 percent increase from December 2006, says the company which tracks actual foreclosure sales, not just initial listings.’
‘We’ve been tracking home, commercial, and bank foreclosures for years and the recent rise is alarming,’ says Mr. O’Toole. ‘If you look at the data for Contra Costa County, for example, the number of foreclosures has increased by 865 percent in just one year and this is by no means the worst example in California.’
‘Such figures help explain the sudden surge in subprime lender failures, with nearly two dozen shuttered, Mr. O’Toole says.’
That’s huge if I read that correctly… 4100 back to the bank in Feb. This is getting real ugly real fast. No wonder these bankers are jumping ship. Thats a huge number….
the number that caught my eye $1.6 BaBaBaBaBa-Billion!
And we’re just getting started!
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
What a crock of SH@%. You were not discriminated against. This is just the buzzword you throw out, if anything happens that does not go your way.
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
What a crock of SH@%. You were not discriminated against. This is just the buzzword you throw out, if anything happens that does not go your way.”
I couldn’t agree with you more. Is she even a legal citizen? I say, send the IRS after her @ss. I bet she isn’t paying a dime in taxes, yet shows up to the emergency room for a sore throat, and qualifies for charity. These types are milking our system for every penny it’s worth. They love to play the race card, scream discrimination, and blame all others rather than accept responsibility for their own lives. F*** you Pena. Do the right thing and you’ll get your house the right way.
Hey everybody, the Sparrow and the Bear are obviously racists. Racists, racists, racists.
That’s what will happen to anybody that tries to hold the Miss Penas of the world responsible.
Holding people accountable is not racism. We have just been made to believe that it is by an elite that uses this tactic to gain power.
No, Sparrow and Bear, I don’t believe you are racists. I do believe Miss Pena is a moron.
I can honestly say the most racist people I have ever met are non-whites. They will play the race card at every turn, it is something they are taught early on and our society rewards them for it.
I guarantee that in the near future, there will be bailouts for ‘minorities’ who were ‘defrauded’ by these ‘predatory lenders’ but at the same time it will be screw the white guy who got himself into trouble, he did it to himself, we have no sympathy for him so why should we bail him out?
OT
When they have the “Imigration Rallies” how come I have not heard any other languages such as - Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Polish, German, Portugese, ect. ect. and just to cover all my bases any language besides Spanish. I belive the truth of the mater is the real racists are the ones claiming to be for “Imigrat Rights”.
It is such a pathetic way to try and move the argument that if you are against illegal imigration, then they lable you as a racist.
I agree. I’m against ALL illegals, white, brown, black or blue. I believe everyone has a right to come here - if they do it legally. The majority of legal immigrants make the best US citizens, in fact - to cross the hurdles they have to cross to become legal makes them more appreciative of living here and they tend to work their a$$es off.
It’s the ones who don’t follow the rules and come here expecting the American dream to be handed to them and then cry discrimination when they don’t get it. I’m sick hearing it and also of hearing the whole “but your people stole the land from the Mexicans and Indians” or “your people owned slaves”. Funny, history doesn’t support the Mexican arguement, and I live next to an Indian reservation and they don’t seem to mind shopping at Walmart, wearing Levi’s and driving Fords ~ at all. The ones who try to succeed in the ‘white man’s world’ seem to do just fine and it’s a helluva lot better than living in a teepee and chasing buffalo around for food.
And for the record, my people were poor white sharecroppers, closer to slaves themselves! Where is MY reparations??
This is just the begining with no doc. There are plenty of people who make legit 100K a year who cannot afford under fixed rate.
First the non doc implode…
we have yet to see the ARM reset…
that will be second wave….
all this will cause is inventory to increase
and prices to fall…
then the third panick sellers start to unload seeing
the bad investment they made overpaying thinking prices
always go up.. these are the prime borrowers.
I was going to say SHE qualified for a 500k loan, with 100% financing as a JANITOR??? I am willing to bet she is an illegal and not making enough.
WHEREAS, my husband makes 100,000 dollars a year, and WE are renting. We don’t qualify for anything other than a 399k loan! We have about 55k to put down.
There is something not right about this.
I couldn’t agree with you more… These types are milking our system for every penny it’s worth.
You just know she’s illegal…has no W-2, or past tax records and wants to buy a house…who’s kidding who? And she lives with other illegals who also don’t bother to pay taxes. No only should the IRS be on her, but where is the INS..? Posted in an earlier thread that new community banking rules in LA now allow government meal vouchers to be counted as “income” for mortgage purposes for illegals…because it’s “culturally sensitive”. (Who’s handing out taxpayer paid meal vouchers to illegals anyhow? Isn’t this government fraud?)
How about this for a bailout…report all these illegals, let the government seize their money and other goods before deporting them, and use the proceeds for the victimized FBs living in substandard shacks built by illegal labor gangs which will soon need major repairs.
Actually, she may not be illegal. She has a FICO score, which I assume you need a SS# to have.
That said, Ben did not post the most HEAD-SHAKING part of the article:
(Realtor) Smith said she has several other clients in the same position as Pena. “We’re talking about good-credit consumers who can’t document their income and who need this type of financing to achieve the American dream,” she said
The realtor is in San Jose, CA were prices are much higher around 750K med. So is that what he is saying as well. I guess we will be seeing some going down fast in Santa Clara County.
How I read that section was that she has some documentation from the janitorial service job, but it is not enough to get the loan. She was counting on her under the table income and rent from two others who also have unreported income to make up the difference. And that a week ago that was acceptable to the lender. But things have changed and she and hordes of others are S-O-L.
The true discrimination is expecting those of us who pay income taxes on the money we make to underwrite these folks expectations and lifestyle. I imagine that some of why people work under the table has to do with basic cost of living and trying to get the most income to make ends meet. BUT, this is the point where those who choose to operate outside of the boundaries in our society will no longer reap the benefits accorded to those who do play by the rules. Crying victim is just the learned response of the narcissist. Another aspect is that those who pay people under the table are doing so by choice to either save on costs or the time and hassle. I pay my household employee above the table. It is a hassle and costs me more, but it is the right thing to do. It is right by me not only because it is the legal way to do it, but also because by making those SSA and MED payments and matching them I am sure she is contributing. So to Pena I say, it sux when you get caught cheating the system, but life just sux sometimes. Get over it.
I like your attitude! So much of this crisis could have been avoided if we didn’t have businesspeople looking to cut every corner.
The temptation to go for illegal labor is even higher when the employer realizes that these people will not complain — see the recent raid in New Bedford, MA, where over 300 were arrested in a squalid sweatshop — which has its major contract making equipment for the US military! Many of the people arrested were parents and little preparations were made for the children left behind; two breastfed babies were hospitalized for dehydration because their mothers were shipped to Texas for “processesing.” Meanwhile the business owner was out of jail and had his business up and running the next day (and how much do you want to guess that his 300 illegal employees have been replaced by 300 *more* illegal employees?)
I know the cost of everything would go up, but I’d rather pay a bit more knowing that I am dealing with honest people who follow the law.
Many years ago, one of my family members paid an employee under the table (at employee’s request). She lived in with her daughter so the daughter could go to a good school. Bad idea. Eventually she left my relative’s employ and when the govmint came after them a couple of years later, the woman sang like a canary playing the “victim” card, how she didn’t know her taxes hadn’t been paid, etc. It was a real mess that cost my relative thousands of dollars.
“and how much do you want to guess that his 300 illegal employees have been replaced by 300 *more* illegal employees?”
Nope, I’ve got a sibling up there. She tells me the illegals were replaced with US citizens who desperately wanted those jobs and were delighted to have the employment. The original deal with the city (New Bedford) was that the city gave tax breaks in exchange for the employment the company was supposed to give the locals. Instead, the slime bucket owners and managers imported slave labor. Now the city wants the tax break money back, but will probably work out a deal if the locals are given employment.
I hope to God that some people named Gonzalez or Martinez cringe when they see how the Mizz Penas of the world discredit them all. And do something about it…like say I’m NOT pulling that card and shame on those who do.
They do. If you know any Mexican-American families that have been in this country for more than two generations, ask them what they think. You’ll get an earful.
I’m from/in San Antonio….and I know a lot of good folks who say Not to the Mizz Penas. I only wish their voices were louder and they were heard. The anecdotes take the day too often - the drama and all…..and, in time, the anecdotes become not so anecdotal. Then you get into the whole “perception is reality” nonsense.
Whats even worst is the 500,000 now is considered a legit sale price and will fall in all the NAR/CAR reporting numbers for latest media to spread.
Hey folks San Pablo med home price is now 500K! and no one is going to change that.
Just think of all the buyers who could not afford these homes EVERYWHERE, using risky loans to close the deal. NONE of these sales numbers or prices will EVERY BE READJUSTED or RESTATED in ANY REGION peppered with this fraud.
All the present sales figures will based on these FAKED numbers.
How can anyone trust NAR CAR numbers?
WTF! a freaking janitor bought a home for $500k. could it be more obvious why this house bubble is the mother of all bubbles. this article should be emailed to senator dodd- the idiot who is clamoring to bail these people out.
i think this is the first sign of the end of the great american civilization. rotting from within, being invaded from without.
Well, she got the loan and bought the house anyway…check out the last comment by this Smith woman…enough to make you vomit…
“Smith and loan officer Sandra Sherry found a loan to replace the one that fell through, but Pena is paying 1.25 points to get the same rate and terms she was supposed to get earlier this month from a different lender without paying points. (One point is equal to 1 percent of the loan amount; paying points upfront helps “buy down” the loan’s interest rate.)
Smith said she has several other clients in the same position as Pena.
“We’re talking about good-credit consumers who can’t document their income and who need this type of financing to achieve the American dream,” she said.
so they stuck it to her and broke it off anyway….
Pena you should have be more careful of what you wished for…
After the comments she made… I feed she deserves to get into that home and not be discriminated against.
This is almost over… so close. You can feel the change. But its not here yet. Soon… so soon. But alas, its going to take a long time to really shake out.
Got popcorn?
Neil
Yeah, I cant believe a woman who cleans houses expects to buy a 500K home, CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!
Another future foreclosure. Then again, maybe Dodd and Clinton will pass a bill that makes foreclosures illegal.
If she’s an illegal, and foreclosures are illegal… do 2 illegals make a legal?
Chris Dodd and the Democrats would like you to fork over another $10K/year in income taxes to bail out illegal aliens who bought $500K houses with liar loans, so they can “stay in their homes”. So, you get to remain in your $350K house and pay more taxes so illegal alien cleaning ladies who don’t pay taxes can stay in their $500K houses. Sound OK to you?
More right-wing bullsh*t. Can’t you zealots give it a rest?
Give the woman a break. She works hard. If she shares the house with like 6 other people, she can probably pull it off.
“More right-wing bullsh*t. Can’t you zealots give it a rest?”
I’m not a right-wing zealot. But I cannot stomach a fat cat Democrat like Dodd who takes campaign contributions from the A-list of NY investment banks which were key players in the subprime debacle crafting a bailout under the pretense of helping the downtrodden.
if your problem is his hypocrisy, why even bother mentioning his party affiliation? you and i know their problem is not specific to any party.
“More right-wing bullsh*t. Can’t you zealots give it a rest”
Here’s some stuff I’d like to e-mail to Dodd and the other senater hand-wringers, of both parties,who are considering giving breaks to illegals and Greencarders who got RE funny-money loans and are now playing the victim Card:
This is from an earlier post of mine:
Widespread Mortgage fraud in the South LA ghettos is likely a vertical operation using straw buyers, bogus sellers, crooked realtors, brokers, lenders, and so forth. ALL interlinked in criminal Mortgage rackets possibly involving LA Gangs funneling illicit drug profits(Laundering)into RE properties. THis is similar to the stolen car rings/auto accident fraud rings operated by foreign nationals(illegals) right here in LA in the 80’s/90,s.
This is not tinfoil hat stuff: I have had extensive contacts in the illegal alien Hispanic community and am aware of the widespread criminal fraudulent activities in LA committed by immigrant criminal rackets. The widespread inner LA RE mort fraud is just an extension of these criminal rackets into a new more profitable racket.
THERE IS RAMPANT MORTGAGE FRAUD RUNNING IN THE INNER LA HOOD. Any one who really knows these SCentral LA hood areas is aware of the massive oveerappraisal fraud which has driven up housing values to rediculous extremes(Half-million for a SCentral 100-yr old Victorian s*itshack). The Illegals/Greencarders overpayed for these CCentral crapshacks due to greed and stupid buying just like their Gringo counterparts did in outer LA Exurbs.
NO BAILOUT FOR STUPID RE BUYERS OF ALL RACES, ILLEGAL OR CITZENS!
“if your problem is his hypocrisy, why even bother mentioning his party affiliation?”
It is a divide and conquer strategy.
dodd is a frickin moron… i’m in ct and he NEVER got my vote….
Well it all worked out and the loan officer got another point and a half. hehehehehehehe
Yes Miss Pena, you were discriminated against.
You were discriminated out of a loan because you could not document your income to the banks satisfaction.
The “Race Card” that you like to employ is not a “Credit Card”. Banks used to loan money based upon their judgement of the borrower to pay the money back. You are not entitled to a loan based upon your ethnicity.
It looks as if Miss Pena and her undocumented ilk are going to be the first to hit the streets. Maybe renting, or better yet, documenting your presence and income in this country would be a good start.
I’ll bet that Miss Pena doesn’t pay taxes either. I know I have to.
It looks like the banks are returning to some sort of fiscal responsibility.
Its about time.
Ben, maybe some of the readers can contribute knowledge about “who is actually tracking foreclosures?”
I’ve only ever seen data from companies like Realtytrac and never a government agency. I point this out, because I tracked the number of filings in 2007 a short while back for some of the counties in my state and my numbers were way higher than was I was seeing being reported in the media. Are these foreclosure data companies like the NAR on statistics?
Patch: now your catching on!
Just like the shawdow satistics, using the same mehtods from PRE = Clinton/ Rueben era…We are in recession and have been in recession for a while. Also unemployment rate is near 9% and is actually being reported in the monhtly jobs data under “other methods for compting underutilized labor.
As for the inflation rate the shadow fellas beleive we have is nearer to 7-8% (i forget) but I do n=know when you subtract the REAL inflation rate fro reported GDP - or 2.6% ….{ 2.6% Net GDP plus the Government inflation rate of 2.2% Gross domestice products is 4.8% But of course as we know the inflation rate is 7% as computed jsust 12 years agao we have NEGATIVE GDP of (3%)
http://www.shadowstats.com
Inflation is probably running closer to 10%. But, none of us really know for sure since the government stopped using honesty in their reporting.
Great site. I agree. There is a lot of effort to mislead the public as to what’s going on.
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
You were discriminated against on the basis on verifiable income. Apparently they’re only lending to people that can pay it back now. One day soon you’ll look back and thank you’re lucky stars that you were discriminated against.
‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
Boy, get ready for a lot more of this bs in the months to come. There might be some real victims out there, but it’s going to be very hard to tell them apart from this kind of crass sense of entitlement. You just have to grin and bear it, knowing that the real victims are the ones who passed on the bubble and now are going to get further punished by its aftermath, be it because they decide to inflate our dollars, or raise our taxes or pay a lot more for a loan than we would have if it wasn’t because the lenders have to recoup the losses from all those bad loans. This is becoming very depressing.
She is going to wish she was discriminated against before this is over!
“indicator of the turbulence buffeting the subprime mortgage industry”
‘turbulence’? That implies wavy ups & downs to go through. Try ‘cataclysm’, from the greek ‘kataklusmos’ - to be wash DOWN, OUT, & AWAY.
“PIMCO has often compared the housing market to a supertanker – a massive ship which takes 23 miles to come to a stop after being thrown into full reverse. We believe we are in the middle of a downturn, not at the end, and that the problems created by expensive housing, overstretched consumer finance, and years of Fed tightening have yet to take their full toll on the US housing market.”
I kinda like the idea of the supertanker - out of control and trying to avoid the collision with the iceberg. New from PIMCO
http://tinyurl.com/2rh4oe
PIMCO is nice, but they always talk their book. They always say the FED should LOWER rates.
Exactly right about PIMCO. Bill Gross has been calling for the last 2 years that the FED was about to lower rates. Obviously just an attempt to push his bonds.
I prefer the idea of the Titanic — already hit the iceberg, and about to sink, while all the super-rich folks scramble to get on lifeboats, and leave the poor and unconnected on board to go down with the ship.
Senator Dodd’s banker bailout fits right in with the lifeboat theme.
Good analogy.
The smart and connected (not necessarily all the rich) saw the iceberg coming and started to leave the ship (S.Korea, China, Russia, etc., selling or stopped buying as many US bonds), mean while the drugged and hypnotized masses are still listening to the band play (mainstream media saying don’t worry be happy go shopping). Then, the more alert members of the masses noticed a that the ship went of course and was heading into probable iceberg territory (housing bubble and lax lending standards). But still the band played on and good times were had by all. Then some more noticed a little thud/jolt in the motion of the ship (beginnings of the Sub-Prime melt down), at that point a few more noticed and rushed for the exits (recent market fall). But by and large the masses believe that they are on an unsinkable ship (the “new economy”), and besides the captain (the FED) wouldn’t let anything happen to them. In the mean time the ship is taking on water, but the band is still playing.
I think the band will stop playing this summer.
I hope everybody can grab a life preserver!
Good luck.
“and years of Fed tightening have yet to take their full toll on the US housing market.”
I agree they talk their book, but I also think they are correct. Interest rates on mortgage’s basically did not go up the wholetime they were raising. Am I the only one here who remembers Greespins Conundrum?
Wow, look at single family home sales (transactions) in that chart. They’re still extremely high right now. In a few years time, transactions are going to be down in the dumps like they were in the early 90’s. We’ve got loan resets on the horizon for the next few years. The fat lady is just finishing makeup…
“‘It got to the point where it was easier to buy a home than it was to buy a refrigerator’”
That is cause homes can’t easily be moved and everyone knows they onlty go up in value, so what risk is there in loaning half a million to a cleaning lady.
“‘It got to the point where it was easier to buy a home than it was to buy a refrigerator’”
But renting was still a pain in the butt. I guess it just shows that doing anything really stupid and self-injurious is often easy. When things are too easy you should be skeptical. It probably isn’t the right thing to be doing.
I know a sub-prime couple buying a new condo in Laguna Hills. They have to rush the closing- because the lender won’t touch people like them after the 25th.
They talked about the granite countertops, the hardwood floors- but what they talked the most about was the shiny, stainless steel Whirpool Refrigerator. And then it hit me- these people couldn’t get approval to buy the refrigerator if it didn’t come with house.
Hey, Laguna Hills High grad here! I wonder if the condo was one of the converted apts. behind the High school. Friend of family worked construction on those and said it was some of the shoddiest construction he’d seen.
Thats OK we even have FC in prime Palo Altos homes…
I have seen 1m homes being listed on RealtyTrac
How funny Million dollar homes going into FC…
Why? Should only take $100K salary to buy one of those, right?
fundemental valuation…4x salary … maybe 400-500K…
These are 1000 sq ft homes not mansions… nearly 60 year old
bungholes…
Louie Louie, since when have fundamentals figured into housing purchases?? That’s so 90’s!
LOL! so right … whats wrong with me…
“But renting was still a pain in the butt.”
I guess that explains why nonresident alien cleaning ladies with no income documentation prefer buying $500K homes to renting…
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
OMFG.
Always the victim game. Anybody with a sub-prime loan getting a 80/20 is far more likely to have lousy credit than good. Far more likely.
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
Yes you were. they’re trying to kep idiots out of the game now.
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
Really. If Pena had half a million dollars, would she loan it to someone without fiscal documentation?
Bet not.
So I guess she’s a bigot too, right?
Wrong. You can’t be a bigot if you are a minority. Just ask Jesse Jackson, Queen Latifah, Al Sharpton, Farrakhan and so many others.
Queen Latifah? You must mean Sister Soljah.
Thank God somebody said it. Leave it to you guys to call it right. My reaction to that
statement was S……T……F……U. We’re tired of hearing it. The only discrimination going on here is against someone who can’t afford an overpriced house.
I’m plenty “liberal” about things like sweatshops in third world countries, but that kind of default victimhood mentality is simply ridiculous. Or it would be if it weren’t such a pain to have to deal with.
/rant
“Her real estate agent, Gema Smith in San Jose, said Pena’s credit score is very good”
And Muggy said on Ben’s Blog, “You can’t afford the damn house.”
He didn’t say what very good is. I’m thinking 550 and a pulse is considered “good” these days.
Her credit score may be stellar, but I am guessing it is still quite a stretch to pay the mortgage on a $500K house on a janitor’s income — even if you worked 24/7.
if she pays 6% interest, her PITI without any association fees will be around $3,500 per month.
no prob!
Oh shut up! I’ve been “discriminated” against for the last 3-4 years with these insane prices. Same old crap, the race card will be played a lot also. Life’s a bitch and then you die.
Oh shut up! I’ve been “discriminated” against for the last 3-4 years with these insane prices.
Amen, wmbz
Maybe that was the only buyer.. are all of considering she was the only buyer… there werve no others interested. Of course the Realtor was willing to sell at top price if it can be engineered to work.
So where are prime buyers using fixed rates… in SP there are none.
500K is nearly 4x what it went 10 years ago.. not even rent has gone up that much. Rent has been flat for 10 years.
“I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
Yeah — discrimination against people who have no chance in Hades of paying back the money is a real crime.
This Pena woman almost makes me feel sorry for the lending industry. If they don’t freely let Hispanic janitors with no income documentation take out a big enough loan to financially hang themselves, then they are discriminating. And yet, it was somehow also discriminatory for subprime lenders to make loans these past several years to low-income minority buyers which will likely never be repaid. Let’s hear from all the liberal affordable housing advocates out there how lenders are supposed to act in the face of this double-edged sword?
I would guess that subprime loans have been made to every group (including whites) in proportion to the population. Ms. Pena may feel that she is discriminated against (by the way,she is being discriminated against, by you, since you are assuming that she is both an illegal immigrant and a criminal without evidence), but she is not being discriminated against by the lenders.
“(by the way,she is being discriminated against, by you, since you are assuming that she is both an illegal immigrant and a criminal without evidence)”
where in getstucco’s statement you responded to did he say this?
“I would guess that subprime loans have been made to every group (including whites) in proportion to the population.”
Your guess would be dead wrong. There have been a couple of recent news articles that reported the national Hispanic share of subprime loans was 40%. And I will go out on a limb and venture to guess that blacks represent a higher proportion of subprime loan recipients than their share of the overall population. And it was big New York City investment bankers who were the kingpins in this mess, funneling money from the top 3% of the wealth distribution into the hands of poor immigrants and minorities, with future foreclosure in the bag. This is why I am hoping Chris Dodd goes straight to his major campaign contributors in the investment banking community when it comes time to fund his bailout proposal to keep people in their homes.
You are right. Interestingly, analyses I’ve been reading of the reasons that minorities disproportionately hold subprime, higher cost loans aren’t clear on why this is so. Are they more likely to want something for nothing? Doubtful. Are they more likely to take risks? Probably not. Are they less financially savvy? Probably. Are they being discriminated against?
40%. national. come on. it was you who mentioned it and for the state of california. there was a response about why be surprised when 35% of california population is 35%.
35% of the population of ca is hispanic.
“40%. national. come on.”
I was just quoting a news story. Where do you get your counterevidence (I am guessing from your active imagination?).
This is like a Life of Brian skit.
They start thinking Brain is the messiah…
Brian “I’m not the messiah”…
Somebody in crowd “Only the TRU messiah denies his own divinity”
Brian:”well what kind of chance does that give me? OK then I am the messiah”
Crowd: “the Messiah! The MESSIAH!”
Its discriminatory not to lend to a minority and fraud to qualify a person for a loan they can’t afford.
Ahhhhh.
Its discriminatory not to lend to a minority and fraud to qualify a person for a loan they can’t afford.
James, I see your point, but I wouldn’t get too caught up in it. These lenders have been raking in the millions while purportedly “helping” minorities “achieve the dream of homeownership”. If you think about it, only that statement is enough to send you running to the bathroom with a very sick stomach. As far as I am concerned, these people all deserve each other. They milked their fake concern for minorities for all it was worth, and now it is coming back to haunt them. Don’t expect me to shed a tear for them. Like they say in my neck of the woods:”don’t blame the pig, blame the one who feeds him.”
“Like they say in my neck of the woods:”don’t blame the pig, blame the one who feeds him.”
One of the best quotes I’ve ever seen on this board and totally applicable to the situation.
Pena’s story is apalling on so many levels. I can’t believe she is pulling the discrimination/race card! She should be thankful that someone stopped her from buying a half million dollar dump in an armpit suburb.
hilary and dodd are with you
when gop hops in I’ll be glad I’m neither
‘“I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Irene Pena.”
Gee, I know how you feel Irene. You 100% financers have created the artificial high prices.
Now, you are making it tough on me - even though I make over 100k and am completely debt free to comfortably purchase a house right now. WTF!
SP homes would normally be around $200K tops for top end.
Way way overpriced for that area.
Another example of realtors “fake bids” being told to actually buyers so they keep overbidding on RE.
“Can You go higher, we have other bidders”
What is required to end this kind of reckless borrowing and lending is a good Pavlovian Enema to wash the REIC clean. Some people are simply Too Dumb to Bail.
“Too Dumb to Bail”
Now, that’s choice! Reminds me of the FBs who HELOCed to pay off their credit cards, than ran them right back up again. Now they’re bailing with a coffee cup after running their ship into an iceberg.
“Now they’re bailing with a coffee cup after running their ship into an iceberg.’
Exactly. RiskLoves are not going to get it until they get it.
“Now they’re bailing with a coffee cup after running their ship into an iceberg.”
And, to add a note of hillarity, many appear to be more worried about $3+/dollar gas than the fact that their house may have already dropped in value by $100K.
It’s the things you see every day that make an impression. I argued a few days ago that it’s the volitility in gasoline prices that has people upset - at least those edge-dwellers who can barely make their monthly loan payments.
People could adjust to $3.00 gasoline given time and some price stability - the Europeans have adjusted to worse. Price volitility can be deadly when mixed with maxed-out credit lines and no savings.
Slightly OT, but with the Europeans there are some major differences.
1. They have viable public transportation. Having a car is optional in many places. So most people don’t have to pay the high prices.
2. The higher cost of gasoline is used to support the social programs, which are generally very good. So many people look at the higher cost as having a social benefit.
Unlike us, they lack the “get rich or die trying” gene.
“house may have already dropped in value by $100K.”
The sales price of $500 K has been recorded and will be
used in NAR media reports as legit sales price in that region
and state. It will not be revised. In fact you can bet it is the legit comparable price for this weeks compatables….
Sticky prices ??? The neighbor wants to sell their for $500K or more now. After all this sold for that much…
should read …legit comparable price for this weeks open house asking price if not more.
“Some people are simply Too Dumb to Bail.”
Yep, they sure are. These are the same types of people who never spay or neuter their pets, take poor care of them, and fill the shelters with countless strays and abused animals, only to continue having pets. Aside from euthanizing the people, what do you do?
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
Indiscriminate lending was so pervasive that it was accepted as normal.
Yes, Ms. Pena, you were in fact “discriminated against”. Probably for good reason. In fact, almost certainly for good reason. Let’s see: No Doc, 100% LTV, works as a janitor, the other adults in the household can’t document their income either, house price is a half a million dollars….
What do you think?
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
Well, boody-hoody-hoo, Irene. But not to worry. You’ll be lighting candles at your local church giving thanks to the patron saint of discrimination, who divinely intervened at the last minute to save you from descending into FB hell. Think of it as a pre-mature “bailout” and the beauty of it is, you didn’t need legislation to save you.
“Lenders are suddenly balking at making loans to workers who can’t easily document their income….”
Translation: Lenders are suddenly unable to offload garbage loans for those without sufficient income.
I think Ms. Pena dodged a bullet. I think her fico might be saved. I think Ms. Pena needs to read Ben Jones’ blog NOW.
It’s near the end of the article - she is US citizen and she *didn’t* dodge the bullet.
“I feel like I was discriminated against,” said Pena, who is a U.S. citizen. She spoke in Spanish, with Smith translating.
Smith and loan officer Sandra Sherry found a loan to replace the one that fell through, but Pena is paying 1.25 points to get the same rate and terms she was supposed to get earlier this month from a different lender without paying points. (One point is equal to 1 percent of the loan amount; paying points upfront helps “buy down” the loan’s interest rate.) “
And therein lies the problem. Despite our belief that these loans are going away, a quick perusal of some of the broker forums reveals that they’re not gone at all. Just harder to get, and more costly. The spigot is still open for now, just not as wide. Sadly, I think the only thing that’ll really stop it is a huge meltdown. When/if that’l happen is anyones guess…
“Sadly, I think the only thing that’ll really stop it is a huge meltdown. When/if that’l happen is anyones guess…”
Pardon me! Are you joking? I don’t think there is any question about the huge meltdown. It is just the timing that is hard to guess. The ultimate outcome is certain.
Agreed… I guess I’m becoming pessimistic. There’s been so many “rabbits pulled out of the hat” to keep this whole mess going for the last few years. It’s wearing me down. I’ll just keep eating popcorn though…
plysat,
Cheer up! Before these things were extending the boom, whereas now they’re only exacerbating the bust. Every time you read one of these stories you know your eventual dream home just got a little less expensive.
And what do you want to bet old Irene will be the first with her hand out for a bailout when she can’t pay the loan.
Interesting she is a US citizen who needs a translator.
I am certain that the reporter verified that she is, indeed, a US citizen and didn’t just take her word for it. *rolling eyes*
Yes, She’s a citizen all right…it’s the new “stated citizenship”…if you say you are, no one can doubt you, even if you can’t speak English. And you want to buy a house and you claim to have a job, though you have no w-2s and worse, no past tax forms. And you plan to live with a couple of guys who have no docs either…while, since your “stated employment” is cleaning houses, but there’s no proof of that, possibly ms. pena is working a few other deals with her two pals.
“It’s near the end of the article - she is US citizen ”
I’d put a helluva lot of money on a bet that she isn’t.
She is a U.S. citizen — right! Unfortunately, she has no income verification, and perhaps no papers to document her citizenship either…
What you haven’t heard of our government’s new “Stated Citizenship” program? No proof required anymore.
And Wall Street has invented the new magic potion to rescue the industry “Stated FICO” loans with “Stated Payment” provisions (If you say you mailed a check they have to count it as paid).
And let me state I went to an Ivy League college, I have a Phd, and that I am 6′ 3″ tall, tanned, fit, charming, full head of hair, living in upscale Chevy Chase, MD - and not the state school educated, basement dwelling, bald, paunchy, IT technician I really am!
I love this new “stated” life!
Well, I guess she got it. Both barrels.
““Her real estate agent, Gema Smith in San Jose, said Pena’s credit score is very good, but the lender denied the loan at the last minute because Pena works for a janitorial service and cleans houses as a side job.”
Is this the best buyer they could find for a $500K 3br home in the Bay Area… Is this the only demand there is out there. What gives… where are all those six-figure engineers and other professionals i hear so much about…..LOL…
Where are all those multiple bidders realtos are talking about?
Our dead cat has a name, and it is Irene Pena. BUT, who new they wouldn’t even let the dead cats bounce? It’s different this time for sure.
“…where are all those six-figure engineers and other professionals i hear so much about?”
Many of those six-figure engineers can apparently do the math.
But Some cannot, somebody I know just bought a house for 900K. Household income about 200K, I told him it was cheaper to rent but he went from looking for a house for 650 to buying one at 900. Ah what are you going to do.
Going to do… you will be the next owner when price drops to 400K or less.
I hope I never have to drive across a bridge this dip$hit has designed.
Would that be the interest-only bridge, which can only carry its own weight but no cars, or the ARM bridge, which can carry cars the first two years but only bicycles the next 28?
Two of my friends (engineers) just bought - in Fremont and in Sunnyvale.
Apparently the Kool Aid was good.
They must have slept through the lesson where ever action has an equal but opposite reaction, and also the one where ‘what goes up must come down’.
San Pablo is the hood, AFAIK (haven’t been up in that areas since the late 70s). $500K+ in the south bay gets you a semi-reasonable 2B condo. Diametrically opposite (across the bay) from San Pablo is the lower Peninsula — Los Altos etc . . . that’s where the engineers here all want to live.
“$500K+ in the south bay gets you a semi-reasonable 2B condo”
Not sure anyone from SB would say that is even semi-reasonable.
How do you go from $110/sq ft condo price to $400/sq ft in 10 years?
What changed? More jobs? We have the same # jobs today as we had back in 1990 at 850K. Demand except from 1998-2000 has been flat.
???? Whats changed ???
(’reasonable’ as in livable, not affordable)
dotcom $$$ goosed the market 1997-2001. Opening 100% stated no-doc low-rate lending to the Penas of the world gave it another goose 2003-2006.
But there’s been a LOT more addition to housing stock than reduction, and employment is basically level.
Jobs here do pay twice, 3x, as much now as they did in 1990, though.
dot.com money dried out or left the bay area.
what did we learn from that … someone paid
300 per share for no other reason …
hardly a legit valuation.
will someone come by again and do the same…
Not going to happen… today we have stock option expensing.
“Jobs here do pay twice, 3x, as much now as they did in 1990, though.”
Thats why we are shipping jobs elsewhere to lower cost states or overseas. Its not because we like curry… Given that risk … I dont see people climbing to get raises… raises may have doubled since early 1990s.. .i dont think you will find it tripled…
“workers who can’t easily document their income”
Ah, but can they document their citizenship?
I’m going to miss you guys when this whole bubble thing is done playing out. — Quick SoFla story: My wife gets a call from a fellow girl scout mom who she hardly knows. The lady starts telling her all about the “flip” she was trying to do with a newly built POS townhome (next to the turnpike, Miramar). She asked my wife to pray for her as things are looking bad. She doesn’t think she can sell it for what she “bought” it for or rent it for anything close to the monthly nut. I say bought loosely, because I’m sure her only money into it is the deposit and closing costs. The best part of this story is that her goal with the flip was to just make enough money to buy a new mini-van! She further stated she would be happy with $10K profit, but now just wants out…and she divulged “my husband warned me not to do this, but I did it anyway”! CLASSIC!
“my husband warned me not to do this, but I did it anyway”!
people consider that a marriage?
i thought the same thing…
Must be a ’stated marriage’
Stated marriage?????
LOL!!!!
Where I used to live, the “investor” fixing up a house across the street from me told me he just wanted to make enough money to buy a car as a graduation present for one of his kids. Whew! Needless to say, all the fix up work has ground to a halt, although someone still comes by to mow the lawn. He’d need to get $100,000 more for it than similar homes in the area are LISTING for. This guy really got stung badly.
IM going to risk a little criticism here. Ladies hit me with your best shot.
I have read many comments here on the blog, and have heard many real friends tell me that their wives demanded stuff like refinancing for more credit, minivans, bigger home purchases , granite countertops etc. Many wives have threatened hubbies with divorce, withholding of affection etc unless hubby capitulated.
I have not read or heard any personal stories of husbands who told wifey that unless she allows them to buy something he will divorce her. Im sure there are men who do this to their women but it seems that women present this ultimatum to men more. I wonder why?
House, to the female = nest. It’s a biological thing as inexorable as our love of shiny stones and clever rainments. Sometimes rationality can mitigate the instinct, but ultimately, we’re suckers for it. There is no point pairing if it doesn’t result in a more secure existence for us…and for many, if not most, that requires permanent physical shelter.
“…permanent physical shelter”
You mean like the POOR HOUSE!!!
I know from personal experience, in the San Fernando Valley area of LA you DON’T want to get in the way of a spoiled housewife and her granite counter top/sub zero. Poor slob across the street from me was damn near killing himself to pay for that, plus the $800,000 (that’s right, $800,000) remodel (actually, house-rebuild) he did for her. Near the end of the job, the subcontractors kept complaining to me that they weren’t getting paid on time, didn’t think the couple could afford to complete the job. Fast forward 6 months after they moved in, the wifey was ordering custom drapery from an interior designer for all the windows in the house (4300SF) and all sorts of other unnecessary crap.
“There is no point pairing if it doesn’t result in a more secure existence for us…and for many, if not most, that requires permanent physical shelter.”
Since when is paying over 50% of net income on housing conducive to permanence? Maybe I’m just silly, but a more insecure existence is hard for me to imagine.
Pre-nup….
When my wife insisted that we just get simple gold wedding bands and no engagement rings because it would be better saving the money for a car, I knew I had really scored
“When my wife insisted that we just get simple gold wedding bands and no engagement rings because it would be better saving the money for a car, I knew I had really scored”
Ditto for me. And my wedding last November cost less than $2000.
When we got married almost 7 years ago, we did it in Las Vegas, at a little chaple for about $100. The most expensive part was the couple hundred my wife spent on her hair. I married a very practical and street smart woman.
Sparrow, you are missing a simple truth. Many marriages are bad marriages. They were poorly thought out. They did not discuss their life’s goals or their economic philosophies before they got married. They believe in the fairy tale that “love will get us through anything”. Common sense will get you through anything, not love.
I love my wife. We discussed money and every other topic before getting married. I had watched all of my sisters make the mistake of not doing that prior to their marriages. Financially my wife & I are usually in accord. When she disagrees with me I threaten to stop putting out. That brings her right around.
To anybody that is not married but might get married some day. Talk about money BEFORE you say, “I do”, not after.
LOL. Right, NYCB, before marriage what if they just tell you what they know you want to hear . Talk is cheap . Watch their actions for a long time and see if it matches up with their talk .
I would like to add on to my advice. Make sure the person is honest. If they lie to you during the pre-marriage phase, boy will they lie to you after the marriage is consummated.
Hell, I am quite the opposite!! I am begging my husband not to buy for at least a year or much longer!! He is so fixated on NOT being a renter forever that he is willing to hang himself! I refuse to pay these crazy prices just to “own” a home! He is also very wrapped up with “granite” countertops, etc.!! I think it is very foolish to focus on this!! And I am the one with the stable job and Master’s degree!!
“He is also very wrapped up with “granite” countertops, etc.!! I think it is very foolish to focus on this!! ”
And you would be correct, it’s amazing how many people don’t get this. The things that matter are lot size, square footage, beds and baths. Everything else is eye candy.
So true - although I would add construction quality as a consideration, based on what I have seen in “community developments” over the last 30 years.
LA Renter, I am right there with you (and in LA too!). My husband was on board with renting and waiting, but recently he has been telling me that he doesn’t want to wait. I put him off 1 year, but I think that is still too early to buy. My husband and I both work and we rent a modest apartment in an area with a good elementary school and our life is so EASY with us renting! Owning a home is a lot of work and I’m willing to jump in only when the price is right…
How bout a man who wont let the wife have kids until they buy (renting isn’t good enough) a house? So the wife waits … even though she doesn’t want to. Because she’s worried about getting caught in the bust. It’s not only the men holding back the buying. There are plently of women bubble sitters too.
The person with the larger income holds the power in the marriage during the early years. These women are wielding the only power they have.
I’ve seen a few men who made major purchases without asking their wives at all (the latest computers, wide-screen plasma TVs, motorcycles, new cars, boats etc.) No, nothing as expensive as a house, but the wife didn’t even get a chance to say “no we can’t afford that.”
Don’t be fooled. There are wives out there who have the bigger paycheck in a household, as well as men who will not ‘fess up to presenting an ultimatum to their wives ’cause *they* want one thing or another. OT, sparrow, but just as there are instances of husband abuse that doesn’t get reported or discussed as much, I’d bet that there are reverse situations of which you speak.
To be sure, just because we are not hearing about it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.
BayQT~
Sparrow, sure,there are women like that around. I know a few and they are not nice people to be around. One even told me once that I was stupid not to use my “leverage” as a wife to force my husband into buying. Thankfully, there are also plenty of us girls who would much rather have a husband who is alive and healthy than a McMansion. Just a small matter of priorities IMHO.
Thanks all you ladies and gentlemen for your responses to my inquiry. Im a single guy, and all the ladies responses just gave me a lot of faith that there are some really good gal’s out there that are good mates and partners.
I like cassiopeia’s acquaintence’s term of “leverage.” I had not heard that term used in this situation. But it is a good term to describe it. Thanks also nycityboy for your observations as well. Gene Simmons, also a nycityboy himself, calls it “Full disclosure.” Before. Not after marriage.
Men and women should talk about everything before marriage. In all honesty with each other. Gene Simmons says that if one or the other party says , “That’s unromantic” or cries that you better run as fast as your legs can carry you. That man or woman is giving you a harbinger of things to come.
Again thanks everyone for all your great responses.
Here’s why. It’s called the pussifying of the American male. The smartest men are no longer marrying American women.
See: nomarriage.com
Warning to women: you may not like what you read there. But there is a LOT of truth to it, unfortunately.
Interesting web site, tl.
But why didn’t they just call it….Stepfordwives.com ???
BayQT~
TL very true ..
I’m an American woman and if I were an American man, I would import one too!
I have been complaining of the “vaginization” of the American man for years. The media will not show a ‘normal’ man anymore, they are almost all either flaming homosexuals or ridiculous stereotypical cavemen types.
Most of the women I know completely dominate their households and have no respect whatsoever for their husbands. Their men cower and cater to them, something I just can’t understand. I just can’t relate to it because I love being the traditional woman and respect both my husband and the role he takes as the MAN in our marriage. It makes me sick to see the complete role reversal in most of our society.
Maybe a little OT, but certainly worth reading. Some frightening stuff here.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/IC17Dj01.html
“Total outstanding home mortgages in the US in 1999 were US$4.45 trillion, and by 2004 this amount had grown to $7.56 trillion, most of which was absorbed by refinancing of higher home prices at lower interest rates. When Greenspan took over at the Fed in 1987, total outstanding US home mortgages stood only at $1.82 trillion.”
Does anyone have a handle on today’s number?
Its well over 9 trillion today.
Excellent suggestion. That’s a lot to take in…..
Was out in CA this week. The high five figure engineers I met at our CA office this week are holding out if they can. Terms I hear this week when I was prodding for info “sitting on a pile of rock” “small correction, ’cause everyone wants to live here..see people are moving here …..OOOHHHKKAAYY. Sure I want to live out there where I will be miserable trying to afford a crpbox where traffic is crazy if you have to commute and i loose two hours of my day to sit in traffic in beautiful smog weather. Sure! sign me up.
Not a good sign when the guy that was sitting next to me was trying to get out of his house. He was selling at a loss due to a bridge payment killing him and was taking a hit on their savings to unload. Just got the offer and thought that his days of worring were over. With the pubprime bust he might be sweating and bleeding the savings a while. Another person at the set of cubes next to me was looking for an offer…. ANY offer. Yeah. The goin’s good in CA, with denial.
Actually population from 2000 to 2005 has been flat.
Sadly realization will set in with your cubemates…
we all saw this before back in the 80s…
“2000 to 2005 has been flat”
Oddly, during this period, over 500,000 whites have left the state.
that was true since 1990…
replaced with whites from the east coast…
Unrelated, but still… during the MD-Butler game… lovely Un-Realtor spot just ran… one of the quotes “It just didn’t make sense to spend the money on rent when for the same amount we could buy… ” They must have edited out “when we could buy 120 miles away from work.”
or when rent equaled 110 x rent for the last hundered years- then things changed
At least the NAR is acknowledging the buy vs. rent comparison in the first place. Of course renting is 30-50% cheaper in most of the country right now, but the NAR has never been known for appealing to logic in its advertising campaigns, has it.
At least one per commercial break. Thank god it should be over at the end of this month.
San Diego law firm of Lerach Coughlin Stoia Geller Rudman & Robbins are smelling blood in these loans and there will be lots more gathering like real soon.
‘”When you look at the numbers so far,’ said Heitzig, ‘our county really hasn’t been inundated with foreclosures yet. Whether that wave might be coming or not, I don’t know. It’s going to be an interesting year.’”
From the book ‘How to pseak without saying anything’.
lol
Changed to read:
“Pena’s seeking 100 percent financing using a combination of a first and second mortgage, because she has no money for a downpayment, and applied for the loans using a ’stated income’ process, because she does not earn enough money to make the payments on a half-million dollar loan”
There. That’s more accurate. I feel better.
–Shannon
Discriminated against?
Three adults paying the rigged mortgage? A cleaning lady? Do these sound like illegals? Can illegals have a good credit score?
What kind of vultures would try to unload a half million dollar property on people with no money?
maybe no one would rent an apartment to them cause of lack of income proof, so they all decided to chip in and buy a house….
they’re friends told them it was eaiser… and less risky cause it took months to foreclose which quickly equals any costs incurred, but those pesky landlords would keep deposits
“they all decided to chip in and buy a house….”
In the future, they’ll all have to be chipped (RFID) to buy a house.
An illegal REIT?
“Mirroring a suddenly alarming national trend, home foreclosures in Tulare County are on track to break records in 2007.
What’s so alarming about reality finally imposing itself? The trail of tears to fiscal sanity will be strewn with the bleached bones of speculators and FBs, but the excesses of recent years are finally being flushed out of the system.
She was only a month or two late to lock in for the bailout. BTW heres an amusing subprime tourney bracket http://images.thestreet.com/tsc/common/images/storyimages/031607kassbrackets.gif
I hope you’re correct. My PUTs on WM have doubled in two weeks.
Irene Pena will be looking at that same $500K house in 3 years, but the price will be $250K. She still won’t be able to qualify because she won’t have saved the 5% down or be able to document enough income on a janitor’s salary.
“Irene Pena is buying her first home, a three-bedroom house in San Pablo priced at about $500,000. She was scheduled to get the keys to her house this week, but instead she learned 10 days ago that her loan had fallen through because the lender changed its criteria.”
Oh happy day!
First, I’m delighted that Ms. Pena won’t be given the opportunity to make what would’ve been a disastrous financial mistake.
Second, now that the likes of Ms. Pena have had their access to near-unlimited credit-on-demand cut off, people like me - a high-FICO, high-down-payment buyer, with a good income that I fully document, won’t be competing with low-FICO, no-down-payment, dubious-income dolts with zero sense of financial restraint and galactic entitlement complexes.
Buh-bye, subprimers and the sleazebags who pandered to them, you won’t be missed. The buyers’s pool is shrinking in direct proportion to the subprime and soon-to-be Alt-A deadpools. By this time next year we’ll be able to name our own terms, and “affordable housing” will no longer be a cover-term for Section 8 shanties.
As another poster pointed out. By the end of the story. Miss Pena does have another loan. She wasn’t saved at all.
Hold your horses Sammy. Reading down a bit further reveals that it is still not safe to go in the water:
“Smith and loan officer Sandra Sherry found a loan to replace the one that fell through, but Pena is paying 1.25 points to get the same rate and terms she was supposed to get earlier this month from a different lender without paying points. (One point is equal to 1 percent of the loan amount; paying points upfront helps “buy down” the loan’s interest rate.)”
I’m puked ,I was so happy when I thought Pena got denied . This income tax evasion liar borrower only had to pay 1.25 points to get 100 % financing of a half a mil. The lenders are nuts . No bail outs, let these FB’s go into foreclosure and let the banks chase them for years for the money .
How did this sub-prime liar get her credit rating , by paying Sears off 100 buck one time . This case really has got me pissed . How dare any lender make a loan like that .
Wiz-
What’s even worse is that the seller probably paid that 1.25 point to unload the house.
I know it mrincomescream I thought that myself . Also I’m thinking this is a cash back deal and the sellers are getting so desperate that they are looking for illegals to take the property off their hands for a some pay off .
“What’s even worse is that the seller probably paid that 1.25 point to unload the house.”
Doesn’t sound like anyone on the “buyers” side was smart enough to negotiate this. Easier just to squeeze it out of Pena and her pals.
Hmmm. Methinks there is a new business opportunity. Buy a truck and slowly drive down the street, bellowing through a bullhorn: “Will buy fixtures! 10 cents on the dollar! Sell them before the Sheriff locks you out! Sinks! Toilets! Granite Counters! Will pay CASH!”
What about MEEEEEE?? I feel discriminated against for this job: Sniff I dont look GQ…….and not gay
Bright Student Required for Detailed Presentation (West Village)
Reply to: bustermagee@gmail.com
Date: 2007-03-17, 10:43AM EDT
Need one or two articulate students (law, business or communications) adept at simplifying complex, at times arcane documents, so the conceptual essense is easily understood.
Sorting of documentation by topic and/or date with cross referencing, creation of significant event timeline and succinct explanatory recaps required.
Familiarity with gay issues, employment matters and Sarbanes Oxley is very helpful- not required.
Intensive focus from today (3/17) through Thursday (3/22) and possibly weeks beyond.
Please send recent face photograph and background details with contact information.
“Please send recent face photograph”
Wow. Send in a picture and then sue them if they don’t call you. Easy discrim. suit
“‘Lenders are very nervous right now,’ said Brad Maaske, owner of Realty World in Visalia. ‘Suddenly they have to look at all of their portfolios and try to figure out what percentage of loans out there are bad.’”
Anyone who owes more on their mortgage than the market value of their home, regardless of a down payment or not, and who also has PITI payments that are more than 3x their gross income, will eventually be included in the high-risk loan pool.
You mean they’re not already?
OK, everybody out of the pool and into the Jacuzzi!
“You mean they’re not already?”
As home prices continue to slide membership in this exclusive club will increase.
“In California in 2006, the median down payment for new loans was just one-half of 1 percent, Maaske said. “In Tulare County, our median down payment was closer to 5 to 7 percent. When people put more money down on a property, they tend to fight harder and longer to hold onto it — even if that means continuing to pay a mortgage on a home that is worth less than they owe on it.”
Ok Brad, so exactly how much underwater on a mortgage does someone have to be before these median buyers consider walking? 5%? 7%? Whooops! We’re already there. Add resetting ARMs, 30%+ speculative buying, plus all the home equity raiding and it’s going to be a wild ride to new highs on that foreclosure chart.
But .5% for toward home down payments for California as a whole in 2006? Ewww.
Jingle mail… Jingle mail…
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
Screw you, lady. Are you even legal in this country? I (a prudent person) have been discriminated against for 6 plus years now by idiots like you gaming the system.
The line in the original article is this..
“I feel like I was discriminated against,” said Pena, who is a U.S. citizen.
Obviously, the biases and hatred of closet racists who assume a Hispanic is the same as illegal, is on display here.
One has to wonder who is more stupid?
Pena who thinks this is discrimination
OR
the closet worms who crawl out with accusations of she is illegal
Sure, no W-2? Speaks spanish? I lived 30 miles from Mexico for years and there were very, very few that couldn’t speak english, and most of them were elderly. Interesting that both of you cry racism. Maybe you should loan her the half a million?
Thanks Bubba for calling this like it is. Keep in mind fellow bloggers, every one of you is the result of immigration (except American Indians). Get off the Hispanic/illegal kick, it really shows badly.
There are plenty of issues wrong with Pena’s scenario but race is not one of them. In fact, she was discriminated against, she just may not understand it was economic discrimination. The point for this blog is housing issues. If proof of income is reviewed based only on tax returns, a lot of people would no longer be willing to be paid under the table. That would be a fine start for qualifying prospective homeowners. Pay taxes first, then let’s talk about owning a home, where the goverment provides huge levels of support: Roads, utilities, services, etc.
“There are plenty of issues wrong with Pena’s scenario but race is not one of them.”
Then you need to tell that to Pena, because she was the one who played the “poor me” race card.
And also the ones who need to get off the Hispanic/illegal kick are the Hispanic illegals.
“the ones who need to get off the Hispanic/illegal kick are the Hispanic illegals.”
No, illegal aliens need to return to their country of origin, and they would no longer be “illegals”. You know, lawbreakers, criminals. Of course, you know what the Mexican government thinks of Hispanic illegals…they have the Mexican army posted on their southern border to deter illegal Hispanics.
‘There are plenty of issues wrong with Pena’s scenario but race is not one of them.’
Yes, like tax evasion, and probably mortgage fraud for lying on the documents. You’re just as naive as the reporter.
“Yes, like tax evasion, and probably mortgage fraud for lying on the documents. You’re just as naive as the reporter.”
Which illustrates how confused people have become about the situation. Committing fraud and evading taxes has practically become an entitlement, so much so that people like this lady cry discrimination when someone tries to prevent them from harmful activity, whether that be to themselves or others. LOL!
Agreed. Y’all need to understand the culture that these folks come from. Check out this story from today’s LATimes:
Mexico needs to overhaul tax collection
As oil production drops, the nation must tackle loopholes and rampant evasion to raise revenue.
I have to go with Ben 100% on this one. No W2’s, No paystubs (hell even felons get those) living with 2 others who can’t produce documentation in essence living like someone on the run from the law but she’s a legal citizen. Here’s the kicker amazingly even though she living like she’s on the lamb can’t speak english but she can communicate that she’s being discriminated against because someone won’t give her a half a million so she can buy a shack in the hood. Yea right… That reporters BS meter obviously took the day off. That doesn’t just strike you as a little odd. Here’s another thing when was the last time you saw large numbers of White, Asian, or Black citizens living like that. It’s not too hard to put 2 and 2 together when you think about it now is it?.
Too much PC and not enough common sense is what I say or you really really need to get out more.
Watching it from the sidelines here in Los Angeles the illegals are running rampant in this market. A few years back at least Freddie and Fannie needed a copy of a valid Drivers License and Birth Certificate or something saying you were a citizen. With some of those 100% loans all you need to do is be able to lift a pen and if you don’t think the illegals are raping it for all it’s worth you are mistaken.
“That reporters BS meter obviously took the day off.”
You have to weigh in the fact that he is from a communist city state (aka the Greater Bay Area), which tends to cloud perceptions of fairness.
“Get off the Hispanic/illegal kick, it really shows badly.”
Screw you. My ancestors immigrated here legally.
How about 11 million americans (don’t care what color) barge into Mexico, DEMAND cheap housing, medical care, schooling, money from the gov’t, and when Mexican officials ask for documentation, we yell, “that’s discrimination, that’s profiling”, so what if we speak our language, and DEMAND that you print all gov’t forms in English, AND, if a mexican citizen wants a gov’t job, you better speak english, because you don’t want to insult us? Good Lord, I am so tired of the bullsh!t of being called a racist, when no other country on earth would deal with this crap. And I’m a liberal!
Amen, sister.
The illegal issue is NOT about race, so get off of us!! Illegals are seriously effecting us in a negative way. The huge taxes we have to pay, the hostility towards our own culture, crowded schools and overwhelmed hospitals, crime. So get off of US…this is real and I am sick and tired of people calling it racism when there are REAL problems involved!
Further, we would have to be stupid to not suggest that she is illegal..there are too many clues in the article to point to that. Boo hoo…we thought she was illegal…how horrible!!! Put a lid on it you pious prig
Amen, amen, amen.
“Obviously, the biases and hatred of closet racists who assume a Hispanic is the same as illegal, is on display here.”
Are you suggesting that there are not many Hispanic illegal immigrants in California? Because you would be a bit off the mark if you are suggesting this. But go ahead and be a race card troll if you wish — this blog has a severe troll shortage these days.
People discriminate against imploder!
People WITH MONEY refuse to give imploder THEIR money!?… Even when imploder asks… nicely!
imploder only wants to “borrow” money…. and only 1/2 million dollars…
But people say no!?…They say imploder will spend money on 2 Buck Chuck, video games and magazines at Savon. This is lie!….
imploder not stupid! With 1/2 million imploder would buy 1/2 gallons of Galleo and his own Play Station and FlatScreen, just like everyone else who borrows 1/2 millon does!
once again, imploder has been discriminated against… why? … Because he is impoder…..
ROFL… 2 Buck Chuck rules!
LOL - ROTFL- GREAT ONE IMPLODER!!!
We need make sure Dodd and Clinton recive a letter in concern of the way you have been discriminated against.
“Pena’s seeking 100 percent financing using a combination of a first and second mortgage, and applied for the loans using a ’stated income’ process, because she cannot document her full income using pay stubs or W2 forms.”
Here’s what Mrs. Pena is probably trying to do: sending the cash backs or profit from flips back home, like all the millions who were playing the system at taxpayer’ s expense. I’ve posted this before, but here it goes again to make my point:
“The Financial Times reported that immigrants (legal or not) in the US wire transfered US$62.3 billion to Latin America and the Caribbean in 2006. That was 14% higher than what they sent in 2005. We can assume that most of this money was earned in cash, without paying any taxes, and a big chunk related to the housing boom, including mortgage fraud and illegal cash backs. That’s money that wasn’t applied back into our economy or to pay for the extra infrastructure needed to absorb millions of these new immigrants, as well as their gazillion new babies. Now since the boom is over, those millions of illegals are waiting for some amnesty to fall on their laps, so they can free ride on welfare and other social services while making cash on the side, as usual, without paying any taxes. Why volunteer to pay taxes, after getting a citizenship, if illegals were working before for cash under the table? And that figure covers only Latin America and the Caribbean, no the rest of the world.”
Now I understand banging your head and holding your tongue is all about when it comes to your friends.
I have a friend who bought a house in the 94066 zip code for $739,000.00. A couple of reasons for buying this semi POS is because of the school district (my parents live in this school district and had said she could use their address) and the need for her two daughters to have their own bedrooms. This house is over 60 years old, 3 bedrooms 1 bath, rotting deck in the backyard, 1 car garage, and single pane windows. It will need extensive work on the inside. The inspection report came back and found some more issues. She wanted to use this as a bargaining chip to ask the sellers to reduce their asking price. The sellers told her no. They told her there were plenty of other buyers who were willing to buy the house. Needless to say she paid their asking price. This is when I really had to bite my tongue. All I could say was I would have walked away from it. I didn’t have it me to tell her I had seen this house listed more than once on the mls listing.
By the way she has house she is trying to sell in the 94080 zip code. I overhead her yesterday saying she was reducing her price $10,000.00. If this doesn’t sell pretty soon she will be carrying a $7,000.00 mortgage payment.
I kept hoping the loan would fall through, or a change of mind would occur, or she would come to her senses. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen, sigh
I’ve learned don’t get attached to anything you want to buy. If they can’t meet your price, walk away.
Thank you for letting me vent.
I really feel sorry … your zip is San Bruno. As I recall SB homes were around 100-200K 10 years ago… so what happened.
Hi Louie,
I wish I knew. I grew up in the San Bruno and Millbrae. Houses 30 yrs ago were about 50-60K. Alot of the house built were after WWII. So for me it is really easy not to buy a house. I can remember taking drives down to the fruit stands in San Jose. I remember seeing signs in the San Jose saying $99.00 down, $99.00 a month for a new house.
welcome SFBAGF… im glad someone recalls them days.
What really startles me, is not so much your friend purchasing, but that the place would appraise out with the rotting deck and other issues. The inspection report would read like “War and Peace”. How are these places being funded? Sigh.
Do your friend a favor. Whack her over the head with a cudgel, stuff her in your trunk and tie her up in her basement until the RE deal falls through. She’ll thank you for it later. Just call it a Real Estate Intervention.
““‘Baby boomers are buying what they want,…”
Amazing how they insist on the idea that BBs are swimming in money. I must know hundreds of BBs and none of them are millionaires.
Most of the BBs that I work with are functional illiterates when it comes to financial matters. They usually have divorces that have made retirement a pipe dream. They are no more in a position to buy an expensive 1st or 2nd home or condo than I am to be Miss Universe.
what a generalization…
“Most of the BBs that I work with are functional illiterates when it comes to financial matters. They usually have divorces that have made retirement a pipe dream.”
So it looks like they’ll be your boss for another 20 years… Oh oh, so much for that promotion “financial literates” like yourself, so rightly deserve…
I’ve seen two types of BB’s. Those that are fine and will retire on schedule.
The second type cannot go through two weeks of delayed gratification; yet they have been in panic on their retirement for five to ten years. Hence why they jump on every investment bandwagon.
As to promotions…
Doesn’t slow good people down. One gets used to having the bulk of one’s employees either a decade younger or older than oneself.
But I wouldn’t generalize either. So you made a good point. But so many BB’s are in trouble due to financial illiteracy. Functional? That I haven’t seen so much of… but financial literacy? Lacking at most ages. Sometimes those I love.
This is going to be very ugly.
One of my friends just signed papers for their 5th home. Ghad… I’ve told them my thoughts on RE… All I can do is wish them well.
Got popcorn?
Neil
I’m a baby boomer, and I’m almost a millionaire…..
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
Since when did people feel like it was there RIGHT to borrow Hundereds of thousands of dollars without being able to show they have the ability to pay it back?? LOL.
The more I think about Pena the more I think it might be a cash back fraud deal . Who’s social security No. is this person who can’t even speak English using, (who is claiming she is a US cItizen )?
If I were going to commit fraud, I might think twice about being interviewed for an article. That would take chutzpah.
Hey the criminals are getting bolder and bolder these days . Pena is willing to state she has unreported income and she apparently thinks thats ok to state to a interviewer . Maybe she is engaging in a cash back situation with the seller and she doesn’t understand that its illegal .
You guys have to see this - Veridian homes is giving away a free garage door opener if you buy one of there boxes before April!!!
http://madisonhousingbubble.blogspot.com/
A free bottle opener would be nice
What, no keychain?.
I was being driven home from the airport by the local shuttle service, and behind me was some boomer couple talking to the driver about the impulse home purchase they just made: they felt like they needed a bigger house so they decided to drop by an open house to look and ended up buying. They mentioned that they are currently paying two mortgages, and it seems like prices have been going down, but they’re glad it is spring because the market will “bounce back.”
Gotta love greedy and ignorant Californians!
I been here since 1971… I have never seen that kink of behavior back in the 70 to 90’s… dont forget only 2/3 of califonians are natives. Many today are from the east coast. There used to be many rednecks in the Bay Area. We never had prices go 3-400% in any decade before. Many buyers from the east coast today are paying for the “sun premium”… They are smart not to buy the Brooklyn Bridge but I agree idoits and greedy bastards when they came to California.
Not just in california, I know a couple who have a house in (shudder) Florida who decided they want to move to N. carolina, so they went up and put a 25,000 non-refundable retainer on a house there. They have no jobs there, will quit jobs in Florida when their house sells (never) and then move, hoping to get jobs (one’s a handyman, the other a banker) in N. carolina. Both houses over 350k.
““Pena’s seeking 100 percent financing using a combination of a first and second mortgage, and applied for the loans using a ’stated income’ process, because she cannot document her full income using pay stubs or W2 forms.”
“Two other adults in her household will be contributing to the mortgage, but they lack income documents, too.”
The Financial Times reported that immigrants (legal or not) in the US wire transfered US$62.3 billion to Latin America and Caribbean in 2006. That was 14% higher than what they sent in 2005. By looking at Mrs. Pena’s story and some other examples at OCRenter’s blog, we can assume that most of this money was earned in cash, without paying any taxes, and related to the housing boom, including mortgage fraud and illegal cash backs. That’s money that wasn’t applied back into the infrastructure needed to absorb millions of these new immigrants and their lack of family planning. Now since the boom is over, those millions of illegals are waiting for some amnesty to fall on their laps, so they can free ride on welfare and other social services, while earning in cash on the side, as usual, without paying any taxes. Why volunteer to pay taxes, after becoming a citizen, if they were working before for cash under the table? And that figure is only to Latin America, not including the rest of the world. This is not about race, it’s about paying their fair share of taxes for using the infrastructure and social services of this country (new schools, new hospitals, new roads, sanitation, etc) and not committing fraud in real estate. If Mrs. Pena and the other two individuals living with her are US citizens, why do they continue working for cash, without W2s? Simple, to evade taxes and dump the bill on us, taxpayers. Now multiply this story by millions and you get the idea of cost. BTW, it doesn’t matter that 50% or more of immigrants play by the book; a criminal act committed by an immigrant is already one too many. They come here to seek help and then commit crime in return, after we help them.
“The Financial Times reported that immigrants (legal or not) in the US wire transfered US$62.3 billion to Latin America and Caribbean in 2006.”
Let me be the first to predict here of a future article posted by Mr. Jones describing the phenomenon of nonresident aliens using funny money mortgage loans to obtain cash to send out of U.S. borders as remittances to family members back home. It just has to be happening, given the current lending environment.
I think you’re all a bunch of racist bogots to criticize these poor hard-working people who contribute so much to our economy.
For example, where I used to live (Carbondale, Colorado), the residents now send their kids to shcools in other towns because the illegals have dumbed-down the system so much (no child left behind, English-speaking or not). The city council is ready to pass a law limiting the number of cars per house. It’s nothing for a three-bedroom house to have 20 people living in it. We can thank our rich friends in Aspen (nearby) for providing jobs under the table to these people. I’m actually not a racist (honest, used to teach English as a second language), but it’s getting out of hand. I left Carbondale because I couldn’t even begin to afford a house. I don’t know how many illegals there actually own houses (I suspect very few), but it’s now more profitable to rent to them than to sell to people like me. The bottom houses there start in the 400k range and rent is high. This is a housing issue, for sure, and also a quality-of-life issue. Carbondale used to be a funky little artsy town full of nature lovers, now it’s history, no community hardly left, everyone used to walk around town in the summer evenings, now the only people you see out are tough-looking hombres. SOL
“but it’s now more profitable to rent to them than to sell to people like me.”
Good point. Same situation in our area. Funky, interesting little place turned into crap. Much of the problem has been caused by many of our fellow citizens who are willing to drop their pants for a buck, and at their neighbor’s expense. And those are the people I won’t lift a finger to help if they get in a jam with some of their gang banger tenants. Swear to God, I’d walk (er, run) on by.
“I think you’re all a bunch of racist bogots to criticize these poor hard-working people who contribute so much to our economy.”
Let’s agree to disagree. I think you are a moron to defend illegal immigrant tax evaders.
GS,
Lost in Utah was being sarcastic, read the rest of his post.
he even cannot remember exactly what he wrote the other day regarding the 40% hispanic stuff.
Get Stucco is right about illegals; that he overlooked a post describing how they destroyed the character of a small town is understandable…just reading about these scummy criminals is enough to ruin your day.
Hey, I was being TOTALLY sarcastic. The illegals are ruining my part of the country, some of them are great individuals, it’s the numbers and solcial dynamics. For example, we just had a cock-fighting bust! Carbondale is home to North Face outdoor gear, we’re a bunch of greeners and animal lovers and this was just unbelieveable to us. By the way, carbindale’s only a few thousand people (well, who knows how many now with all the illegals)…
“If Mrs. Pena and the other two individuals living with her are US citizens, why do they continue working for cash, without W2s? Simple, to evade taxes and dump the bill on us, taxpayers.”
This is the point that those who speak in defense of all the hard-working illegal aliens never seem to address. Those of us who live here legally and pay taxes thereby pay a massive subsidy to illegals who are allowed to come here and even handed money to buy $500K homes without any documentation.
SENATORS DODD AND CLINTON, COME CLEAN. ARE YOU PROPOSING TO ASK U.S. TAXPAYERS TO PAY MONEY TO BAILOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS WHO ILLEGALLY BOUGHT U.S. HOMES?
Your points seem to be getting muddled. First of all, most illegals end up forced to file w-2 forms, they just don’t get any money back from what gets taken out of their checks. This happens because apart from fly by night operations most employers use large and impossible to disguise facilities that are impossible to disguise and require a valid use permit that covers all activities.
It is delightful to think that Senators Dodd and Clinton could carpet the streets on a whim, but we live in the real world where reactionary conservative politicians have bankrupted this nation, so there is no more money to spend. Any resolution of this problem will have to take the form of a reconciliation between lender and borrower since the loans are garbage and will not be paid. Doomed loans are exactly that no matter what the exact status of the borrowers is.
Notice that GetStucco never mentions the azzhole Republicans that created the mess in the first place. He only spews right-wing propaganda talking points.
Sad.
“Notice that GetStucco never mentions the azzhole Republicans…”
Sorry to leave them out of my diatribes. It just so happens that it was only fat cat Democrat hypocrites Hillary and Dodd who have proposed bailouts.
These bailouts are never going to get off the ground, and Hillary and Dodd are acting like the pandering politicians they have always been. On the other hand, Bush has been running around touting “record home ownership” for the last four years, and he and the Republican congress were in charge when lending standards were loosened. They are responsible for the mess we are in now, by creating the conditions for this bubble.
“They are responsible for the mess we are in now, by creating the conditions for this bubble.”
That is another reason why Dodd is an idiot for proposing a bailout, which could potentially prolong the bubble fallout into a future Democratic president’s first term in office. The Dems should actually make a free market argument that it would be best to let the market sort it out; that way the damage would play out quickly on W’s watch, and there would be little doubt in the minds of the electorate about whom to blame.
Sad that you have no grasp of reality.
A lot of what your saying does not add up. The money wired south of the border usually goes to support their families and represents disposable income from wages here that are far higher than where they are from. You are claiming this is all a tax scam, but you have no proof that she does not pay taxes or uses food stamps or emergency rooms. The state and other entities make strong efforts to smoke out illegals. That means that crop harvesting and small time construction go under the radar, but janitorial work which is inseperable from some obvious facility with a use permit typically results in w-2 forms being filed. Food stamps sometimes are used, but that program has been waning for some time in particular because of problems actually using the stamps at check outs (try it some time). Local and mobile volunteer clinics play a large role in care for illegals, depending on the area often much more than emergency rooms.
Looking just at the mortgage process for a moment, let’s say you line up a purchase and have a loan set up and before the close the loan company pulls the plug because they don’t do those kinds of loan anymore. Maybe you would be smart enough to do the math and not be up for that kind of loan to begin with, but if the deal seemed legit at first then what happened seems like some kind of corporate fraud. In a sense, it was. These loans were bogus and sure to implode. The money would never be paid. These potential customers only happened to notice when the mirage vanished before their eyes. In a sense they are quite right to be calling foul, since the whole deal stank from the start.
If white people did these same things they would be looked down upon and assailed as trash and largely ignored, but when immigrants do them it is as if the Mongol hordes were descending. When the flow of immigrants decreases and we have to deal with our low birth rate we may come to remember these kinds of problems rather fondly.
“The state and other entities make strong efforts to smoke out illegals. That means that crop harvesting and small time construction go under the radar, but janitorial work which is inseperable from some obvious facility with a use permit typically results in w-2 forms being filed. ”
You have obviously never ever worked in a office building in Southern California for at least the past ten years.
Or visited a restaurant or a construction site.
You obviously have nothing but contempt for actual information and data. According to you the world is so utterly simple and consistent that the nature of all hiring statewide can be instantly revealed by a visit to a construction site. In reality humans are not a strange and formless gas, but composed of matter. Where do you think estimates of the illegal economy and grey markets come from? The Conspiracy? Add up all the wages of all the agricultural workers in the entire state for the year and what do you come up with? A vast, undeterminable sum that represents our nation’s precious fluids being drained? NO! You come up with a figure that can be tracked with a fair amount of accuracy in no small part because it is so damned small. The same goes for other sectors as well. If illegals start making blockbuster films and crack commercial products then there may be an issue, a positive issue even, but until then the mystery that you would have us all donning tin foil hats over does not exist. Accurate measures of illegal compensation can be had for all of the sectors where they work, and the numbers are not that impressive and never have been.
Spewing a bunch of liberal poop again?
No, Mole actual information and data is good thing. The best data however comes from the eyes and ears. You mention the contruction industry and agriculture. But what about the guys who I see everyday at all the Home Depot stores, what about the maids I see coming to work everyday in my neighborhood, what about the guys driving the hot food trucks, or the guys hawking the ballons and ice cream at the park or the influx of street vendors that I am now seeing. What about the even darker side the guys dealing the drugs, extorting local business workers and other illicit activities. Where’s the taxes on that?. Where’s your data for illegal compensation for those things?. Those are not small numbers my friend.
According to the report “The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Californians,” published in 2004 by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the illegal immigrant population in the state is costing taxpayers more than $9 billion per year (after adjusting for estimated tax contributions of illegal workers). That amounts to approximately $1,183 per household.
… Mexican immigrants account for only 3 percent of the state’s economic output, despite comprising almost one-third of the population. “The idea that Mexican immigration is vital to the U.S. economy is simply false,” …
Additionally, Camarota’s data showed that 41.5 percent of Mexican immigrants used “major welfare programs” like Medicaid and food stamps, while native Californians used only 14.2 percent of the same programs. He argued that immigrants’ contribution, when compared with their need for expensive social services, “means that there’s a very high cost for cheap labor.”
In addition to welfare programs, the cost of healthcare for illegal immigrants is seen by many as too high.
The 2004 FAIR report put the number for overall healthcare at $1.4 billion annually. “What is unseen is [illegal aliens'] free medical care that has degraded and closed some of America’s finest emergency medical facilities and caused hospital bankruptcies: 84 California hospitals are closing their doors,” Madeleine Peiner Cosman, Ph.D., wrote in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons.
FAIR also highlights the cost of incarceration for illegal aliens. According to its report, the cost of incarcerating undocumented immigrants in prisons and jails in California is approximately $1.4 billion per year. That number does not include the associated law enforcement and judicial expenses.
http://www.scpr.org/considerthis/illegalimmigration/2yes.html
here’s an interesting article from FAIR. why do i see mostly democrats with at 0 percent rating from the table titles *following ratings indicate the degree that each elected official supported the interests of the organization in that year*. non-partisan my a$$.
oops. sorry about the link
http://votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?sig_id=002891M
I took a tour of a SoCal business just yesterday morning (no names will be mentioned). But I will say that other than the managers, all the production workers were Hispanic, and I took a very strong impression that they were also all undocumented. In fact, I would go so far as to speculate that the San Diego economy (not to mention all of California) would possibly collapse if it were suddenly no longer possible to employ illegal immigrant labor with the implicit Federal income tax subsidy.
“I would go so far as to speculate that the San Diego economy (not to mention all of California) would possibly collapse if it were suddenly no longer possible to employ illegal immigrant labor with the implicit Federal income tax subsidy.”
Not being a Californian, I can’t really argue for or against that, but given the fact that companies in other parts of the country that were raided had no problem replacing the illegals with legal labor, I’m not so sure the economy would really collapse. Major inconvenience, yes. But that could be avoided by reversing the trend that got us to this sorry point in the first place. Illegal infiltration took place over a period of time. It can be reversed gradually.
“we have to deal with our low birth rate ”
DO NOT BLAME THIS ON IMPLODER! IMPLODER IS DOING THE BEST HE CAN!
“DO NOT BLAME THIS ON IMPLODER! IMPLODER IS DOING THE BEST HE CAN!”
Ah, imploder, thank you for injecting a little levity into the discussion. ROTFLMAO!
hey, you all quit YELLING!!!
Does imploder know that he has to do it with the OPPISITE sex?
J/K
Does imploder know that he has to do it with somebody?? And no, women’s magazines in Savon don’t count.
More of that “stated” bs.
Imploder is “stating” that he is doing his best. Well, let’s see some documentation. Where’s the evidence?
“The money wired south of the border usually goes to support their families and represents disposable income from wages here that are far higher than where they are from.”
Let’s agree to wait for three or so years before we draw any conclusion about where the money that gets sent south of the border comes from. I will predict right now that we will soon read news stories about how much of the no doc loan money (that will never be repaid) was transferred out of the country as remittances to illegal immigrant families. I would have done this myself if I had been in their position — it is only rational.
This is true. People do what they need to do to survive. Government and industry need to fix the problems of illegal immigration by turning off the job spigot and pressuring Mexico to fix their system. I’m far more angry at those in charge then I am at the busboy.
“… I would have done this myself if I had been in their position …”
that is exactly your problem. i would NOT do it even if i can.
If I were an illegal immigrant who felt it necessary to take money offered by rich Americans with no strings attached to feed my family at home, I would probably do it. If conjecturing this way about a situation I will likely never face in my own privileged situation makes me a bad person, so be it. And I guess your family would go hungry under the circumstances, Mr. Manolo?
This exactly illustrates that they are not stupid and they are not victims, and a bailout will be for the lenders. I say let it play out the way it will without government interference.
One thing for sure… that money isn’t being spent here.
Last year’s remittances totalled $25 billion. Oil and remittances are Mexico’s two largest sources of foreign revenue.
In response to your comments:
“The state and other entities make strong efforts to smoke out illegals. That means that crop harvesting and small time construction go under the radar, but janitorial work which is inseperable from some obvious facility with a use permit typically results in w-2 forms being filed. Food stamps sometimes are used, but that program has been waning for some time in particular because of problems actually using the stamps at check outs (try it some time). Local and mobile volunteer clinics play a large role in care for illegals, depending on the area often much more than emergency rooms.”
Are you kidding me? You are deluding yourself. Where I live there is NO effort to “smoke out” illegals. IN fact, there is every effort in the world to make life more comfy for them.
You are also wrong about jobs being connected to some facility. I just found out my local Taco Bell, that is in a predominately white area and within a very diverse city of blacks, whites, latinos and Asians, ONLY hires illegals! How do I know this? I have NEVER seen another race work there besides Latino, NONE of them speak English fully, and my friend asked them, and they admitted it. YOu need to wake up and smell the coffee.
“If white people did these same things they would be looked down upon and assailed as trash and largely ignored, but when immigrants do them it is as if the Mongol hordes were descending. When the flow of immigrants decreases and we have to deal with our low birth rate we may come to remember these kinds of problems rather fondly. ”
I don’t believe this either. If white people did this, it would have been stopped years ago. The only way people of color get away with exploiting us is because of “white guilt” and a fear of racism that prevents people from speaking out on the obvious. By the way, I have no guilt whatsover nor do I suffer a fear of being called racist because it is not racist to not want to be taken advantage of.
is US the ONLY country where you can lie to taxmen and dont pay taxes, but cry discrimination when asked for loan documen tation?
actually it is not, I saw that in india last year where no documentation loan was as pervasive as here . it is the global BUBBLE. One good thing is indian equivalvent of FED (RBI) raised interest rates and it is already having effect in major cities.
This crazy thing about stated income could have been stopped on the tracks if ONLY reporting the income (on loan application) to IRS be mandated sgh
“This crazy thing about stated income could have been stopped on the tracks if ONLY reporting the income (on loan application) to IRS be mandated”
Wonderful idea! It would be great if we could get the mortgage applications of the fraudsters and submit to the IRS. That way, all the burger flippers and janitors who claim incomes of $70,000.00 plus could get a nice tax bill from Uncle Sam. I’d love to see them squirm their way out of that one. Puts them between a rock and hard place. Either they are tax evaders, or fraudsters. They’ve labelled themselves as criminals and it couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of folks.
Where does this not paying taxes junk come from? Sure, some small timers don’t, but in the industry it is more common that they pay taxes without any ability for redress. There was excellent data collected on this during the latest nationwide round ups. You are into this illegals issue, but you didn’t hear that thousands were recently rounded up and deported from such employers as Tyson Foods? Most of them were getting taxes withheld from every paycheck. Maybe if you actually acknowledged what was going on you would be more likely to think than just react the same way all the time. Raids messed up families, hurt a big company that was just doing business the same way everyone else does in that industry, and ended up raising prices on consumers. And for what? Was the issue of illegals solved? No, not even remotely. Were illegals shown to be tax cheats? No, they all had w-2s on file at Tyson HQ. If one of them gets into some bogus home loan then it is a huge conspiracy against our nation and if some Irish or Italian guy does the exact same thing then it is an excuse for an arson joke.
I used to do public tax preparation. Sure some have taxes withheld, and many file the first week of January for the EIC, walking away with thousands. I never knew that was going on until then.
As I’ve said before, spend some time in a Phoenix emergency room and tell us about cheap labor.
Isn’t it amazing how stupid people are about the EIC (earned income credit) and low wage earners? All I hear is “these people work hard and pay taxes like everyone else!” It’s right up there with “they’re not making anymore land,” because with the EIC, they get everything back they paid in all year for making 15k, plus your tax dollars…
so? because it is YOUR money, and you want all of it up to the last freaking PENNY. fine. what can i say.
Why were these people being rounded up? Because not only was their employ illegal but they were using fake tax information for their W2 information. If you didn’t know for a $1,000 you can buy a drivers license and SS# for 20 people here in L.A.
It was “reported” that the IRS was sending out notices to Tyson Foods and others to cease and desist and notifying that the numbers they were paying on were bad. Who got that money probably not the IRS. Tyson and others got in this jam because liberal do-gooders like yourself have tied their hands to where they cannot verify the information they were given. Always tell the whole story. The IRS was probably not getting their fair share.
Yes, let us count the ways in which employment of illegal immigrants has contributed to the communities of the US:
1) Driving down wages or eliminating jobs for legal citizens.
Stress factors for American citizens affected by identity theft.
2) Increased cost of health care and education of anchor baby children
3) Increased cost of crime and law enforcement
4) Divisiveness through assimilation issues such as language and national identity/allegiance.
5) Increased narcotics traffic and gang activity.
6) Spread of diseases formerly unknown in the US, such as Chagas and some that were formerly eradicated or controlled, such as TB.
7) Added poverty and squalor
Benefits go only to those who employ them. Profits from cheap construction labor are not passed on to the consumer and despite the propaganda, it probably doesn’t happen in the agricultural/food service industries either. Instead, the illegal immigrants get no benefits and are dumped on the communities in which they live for health care and education.
Illegal immigrants may provide cheap labor for their employers, but for the communities, they are the most expensive labor that the US has ever had.
“this illegals issue”
Is there something about the word “illegal” that you don’t understand?
spike66-
Don’t you get it? “illegals” is just a cute pet name now. Has no meaning in the world we live in now. I just figured it out myself mind you. I have a whole new game plan for Monday morning now.
Probably claiming a lot of exemptions, too. I would in their position.
It has actually been a lot cheaper and easier to “buy” a home than to rent in california the last few years.I know of many cases where people got into homes with NO $ out of pocket,and quite a few more where the total INITIAL cost was $250 or less.contrast that with first ,last,and a damage deposit…and the landlord will want a decent credit score too.these homes ranged from a low of $560k to near a million.so if you are a tad flaky and still had good credit,you could live in a half mil plus house for 6 months to a year for $250,if you so desired.need i point out that the realtor genna smith was quoted as saying she had other clients in a similar situation?
In case this wasn’t already posted. On the front page of Yahoo.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070316/us_nm/usa_subprime_immigrants_dc
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - In California’s bustling economy, immigrants can rise so fast their language skills may lag behind their buying power, which consumer advocates say landed many non-English speaking borrowers with subprime mortgages they did not want.
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Mortgage brokers have been slipping through loopholes in state civil codes requiring lenders to provide mortgage disclosure documents — delineating interest rates, payment amounts and other vital deal points — in the language in which the transaction was negotiated.
“There’s a lot of room for fraud,” said Oscar Medellin, a lawyer for the nonprofit Public Counsel in Los Angeles.
Public Counsel filed suit on Friday against Lifetime Financial, a Los Angeles mortgage broker, on behalf of Jose Moreno, a Spanish-speaking borrower who says he ended up with an adjustable mortgage and thousands of dollars in fees he didn’t expect after he signed loan documents in English.
A Lifetime Financial representative could not immediately be reached for comment.
Although California law mandates that mortgage disclosures be provided in five languages other than English, if needed, it applies only to brokers who operate under real estate licenses, according to a state Department of Real Estate spokesman.
Those five languages — Spanish, Chinese, Tagalog, Vietnamese and Korean — are spoken by 83 percent of the 12 million Californians who don’t speak English in their homes, according to the 2000 U.S. Census.
With its overheated housing market and sky-high prices, California became a haven for subprime mortgages, which account for more than a fifth of all the state’s mortgages, according to First American Loan Performance.
Add to that a highly mobile immigrant population with rising incomes and you have a recipe for fraud, consumer advocates say.
“This is the perfect example of buyers who were being hoodwinked,” said Kevin Stein, associate director of the nonprofit California Reinvestment Coalition.
“Many borrowers were sold loans they could not afford and could not understand because of improprieties of the brokers … and Wall Street.”
Stein and other housing advocates petitioned the Federal Reserve at a hearing this summer in San Francisco to strengthen laws requiring disclosures in non-English languages.
So far, he said, no action has been taken.
Moreno, the Mexican immigrant who is suing his broker, said he negotiated with the broker in Spanish in 2005 for a fixed-rate, 30-year refinanced mortgage so he could take out equity to fund the automobile trading business he runs out of his Los Angeles home.
After an English-speaking friend read the documents, he learned, too late to revoke the mortgage, that he had agreed to payments that would soon rise beyond what he could afford.
Moreno discovered the discrepancy before he lost his home but many others have not been so lucky.
“We’ve seen clients who have defaulted and lost at least 100 points on their credit score at once,” Medellin said. “It will take years for them to repair their credit.”
Reminds me of a trip to North Beach Strip Club last December…A stripper with her immigrant client at the ATM , she said something like… “no 20 is not enough..standard price is 300.00 you need get15 more like this”
Hook line and sinker!
“Moreno, the Mexican immigrant who is suing his broker, said he negotiated with the broker in Spanish in 2005 for a fixed-rate, 30-year refinanced mortgage so he could take out equity to fund the automobile trading business he runs out of his Los Angeles home.
After an English-speaking friend read the documents, he learned, too late to revoke the mortgage, that he had agreed to payments that would soon rise beyond what he could afford.”
Pure comedy, he thought he had beat the system and when it comes back to bite him in the a$$. He tries to sue… LOL yea right… His lawyer should be hung by his nads and horsewhipped.
If he was so smart when he was negotiating in Spanish why didn’t he break out his spanish language calculator and figure out his interest only payment of 800 bucks was not enough to pay off his loan or where was his english speaking friend before he signed the papers.
Come’on people let’s use just a little common sense here.
“Come’on people let’s use just a little common sense here.”
If people had any common sense left we would never have gotten to where we are now. Remember; despite the name it’s actually the LEAST common of senses.
“After an English-speaking friend read the documents, he learned, too late to revoke the mortgage, that he had agreed to payments that would soon rise beyond what he could afford.”
Duh. Why didn’t he have his English-speaking friend read the documents BEFORE he signed them?
The town in Alaska that is giving away free land (1.3 acres) to anyone who will settle there and build a house within two years.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/16/alaska.land.ap/index.html
Notice the sentence about calls coming in from California, Idaho, Texas and Florida. Probably a lot of the rugged, individualist off-grid types calling from Idaho, but I wonder who is interested from California, Texas and Florida?
Throw in a 500k no doc loan with a translator and you got a deal.
1.3 acres….? maybe - - if it were 103…..
“Among the other advantages of Anderson: no property taxes, state income taxes or sales tax, virtually no crime, and no traffic. There are magnificent summers with temperatures as high as 90 degrees and plenty of wide-open space.”
Not to mention 60 below in the winter.
There are a lot of towns in the midwest making similiar offers.
Any links to that? I’d actually consider it. Maybe during the bust it won’t be so expensive to build a house. Interesting proposition. It is a great idea to build population and foster a sense of community.
I agree palmetto. The sense of community has largely been lost in this country. I would jump at the chance to join others in an endeavor such as this. I think it would be great if everyone helped each other build the houses. Maybe they could be old Craftsman home kits, delivered just like in the old days. I’d love it.
No joke, I bookmarked that site. I grew up in upstate NY, and the weather there is much the same as southern Alaska.
Besides zero taxes, residents get a check from the state for their share of oil revenue. A small house with a geothermal system, and enough space for my dogs and a kitchen garden.
And Alaska is not a “nanny state”, at least not yet.
Ok, so Pena gets the house and who is on the deed? It sounds like she plans to have roommates help make the payments and if they aren’t on the deed as owners it will be income. Come tax time it will be interesting when she takes a tax deduction for interest if she also reports the income from the renters! IRS, wake up and grab these deadbeats.
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
Fantastic use of sentence structure. A janitor. Uneducated. Stated Income. 100% financing. Baaaahaaaahhaaaahaaa.
Moron. They are saving her from ruin.
Stated income aside from phony income - were also illegal immigrant/underground economy loans - ironically some of these people do have the income to pay
Of course if they actually paid 1/3rd or more of their income to the govt (instead of letting honest taxpayers pull the wagon) like most other productive people - they wouldn’t have enough income to do it
I recall 3 to 4 yrs back the underground economy types would simply put down huge downpayments and then use stated incomes - now they want the best of both worlds
in her case (since there is nothing down), probably one less future foreclosure
We are soon going to see a parade of sad case borrowers appearing in the upcoming hearings - many just reckless borrower, however some very legitimate who were preyed upon by lender - however one category will be mostly absent
Anyone want to wager whether we see any of the “stated income” types at the Congressional hearings? I say few if any because we know most are cheating the government out of 10’s of thousands of dollar taxes. The politicians have near zero interest - because they are too busy lapdogging for the Hispanic vote
Watch how (Presidential) candidate Senator Dodd handles this issue in his upcoming hearings.
“Senator Dodd - ” how about a law making mortgage companies criminally liable for conspiring with a borrower they knew or should have known was hiding income from the government”?”
We should all pitch in to get Casey a plane ticket to Washington. I would definitely pay money to see Casey on CSPAN
HarryD - your letting the realtor off the hook..its not the mortgage companies fualt… were where the legit buyers who could afford this home?
You know what there werent any legit buyers at this price. Is this the best buyer they could get? Where are all the multiple offers we are hearing about?
“The state and other entities make strong efforts to smoke out illegals.”
That is beyond laughable
Not in Massachusetts. Last week INS had their first large scale raid in 20 years arresting 300 workers plus the business owners in New Bedord, MA and TEDDY KENNEY, JOHN KERRY, AND BARNEY FRANK - are calling for congressional hearings about the raid
All we hear about in the papers are “the poor illegals” and the horror of the raid -with one group calling is an ATTACK
If the Democrats don’t stop this insane yapping. They are going to lose what should be a shoo-in in 2008 becuase of the incompentness of the current GOP. I quite frankly am getting sick of it. It’s shameful both Democrats and Republican are nothing more then mindless imbeciles. Unbelievable.
Yes, it is sad. The dems are supposed to be helping US minorities and the working poor (they claim). Illegal immigration lowers these groups’ wages. They pander to the poor, but that’s not where you look to get contributions…
I’m a dem and this stuff makes me sick. No surprise that palmetto posted that american citizens lined up for these jobs after the raids.
“Doing jobs americans won’t do”…is a lie that needs to be challenged every time some dim bulb tries to pass it off as truth.
If the illegals have another protest this year, I say we ALL take the day off and join the action to protest whatever we want, the war, the housing bailout, stupid politicians, whatever. After all, as legal citizens, if we want to demonstrate, we are confined to certain zones, ignored by the press and shoved around by the police. Illegals are given free reign, days off and police protection. So we might as well use the opportunity to have our own demonstrations for whatever our pet peeves are. Excellent opportunity.
The company owners were slime buckets who got tax breaks from the city of New Bedford with the understanding that the company would employ local LEGAL residents, since New Bedford is an economically depressed city and residents need employment. Instead, the company imported slave labor from Guatemala, etc. New Bedford wants the tax break money back.
The illegals have been replaced by legal citizens, at least for the time being.
Investigate the raids? That’s the ultimate in pandering. Both the Dems and the Reps are equally repulsive, IMHO.
I remember maybe 12 years ago someone was telling me about a gov. loan they got that was designed for first time borrowers . The loan was a 90% first with a 10% second . The rate was lower than street rate . The catch to the loan was that they would check your utility bills to see if you were owner-occupying or you would get the loan called . You were not allowed to sell the house for 7 years without a hefty penalty . All the loan terms were designed to keep the speculators from applying for the loan .Of course you also had to qualify for the loan payment monthly . The big benefit at that time was that the borrower was getting in on a no-down loan .
How did we go from programs like the above that helped people get home ownership to people crying discrimination because they were not given a 100% no down loan with no income verfication ?
Wiz-
You were in the industry… do you really need to ask? Here’s a simple answer “banker greed”
I believe the answer is “the need for yield” — especially by pension funds. With the Fed lowering interest rates so much, pension funds needed to find fixed-income instruments with high-enough yields to manage their funds. Risky mortgages provided that yield, and the pension funds’ demand for these securities kept the interest rates low enough for risky home-buyers to still “afford” a home.
Mrincomestream and Tl …Long term posters know all this stuff I’m posting but I’m stating it for new lurkers sometimes . I wonder what new people reading the blog are thinking .
I agree with both your answers to my question by the way.
Also I notice that FLIP THAT HOUSE TV program is doing a CYA number regarding their flipper programs . Flip that House is re-running all their old programs with updates . At the end of the original programs they would state what the profit was on the flip . Now I see they are stating “proposed profit “and they also show what really happened with the flipper . In one case where the flipper was suppose to of made 100k on a short term flip they now show that the flipper moved into the house instead of selling because flipper went pass the top of the market .With another updated flip they showed the real profit the flipper ended up with after paying all the commissions verses the profit stated on the original show . Should they really be showing shows that are really this outdated to begin with ?
Actually, I’m impressed that the producers of the show are being honest. Good for them.
Yes I’m impressed with a honest update also but it would of been more helpful had this information came out in the original programs that I believe helped fuel flipper speculation for a couple of years now .
Idea for 2007: They can keep the same name for the show, ‘Flip That House’, only now it will mean the owner is upside down. It could be a comedy, but I doubt 70% of the country would think it was very funny……
Then again, who will be left to watch TV but renters? Owners will either be working 16 hour days, or will have sold their plasma to pay taxes. Could be a receptive viewing audience here.
I think they should rename the show “Flop that House” myself.
By the way Cape Cod where Teddy Kennedy lives in a gated compound in Hyannis for some of his vacations - is now basically a suburb of Brazil - they often arrive using lawful visas and overstay knowing enforcment is non-existent
The immigrations “laws” in the U.S. have become a joke
“‘I feel like I was discriminated against,’ said Pena.”
And if she HAD purchased the home on those terms, in 6 months she’d be saying, “I feel I was taken advantage of”.
Another lender approved the loan so we are going to get Pena screaming that she was taken advantage of in 6 months .
I don’t care what color Pena is . The loan is a bad loan . You just don’t give a half a million dollars to someone who can’t prove income who can’t even come up with a reasonable down payment . Does the broker think it’s is a big deal that this borrower has good credit at this time . So what if this borrower has been able to pay on smaller credit purchases ,it doesn’t mean she can take on 1/2 million in loan debt . its stupid to base a loan risk on a party currently having a good credit rating . There are many other factors other than credit that go into a analysis of risk, like ability to pay , time on the job , type of job , potential for income increases , stability of job , condition and location of property as well as re-sale potential, reserves in the bank for emergeny , . In fact the best underwriters that I have ever seen in my life put the property first in the loan risk analysis , second comes the ability to pay and third comes the credit rating in order of importance .
Think about it . If a borrower has a job loss than is the property marketable and is the appraisal accurate . It doesn’t matter if a person has good credit if they take on to much debt and can’t pay on a long term basis . This notion that you can give a person with good credit any loan amount they want because they won’t default is a false notion .
Pena will be appearing as a VICTIM before Senator Dodd’s committee with a bag over her head and a voice changer - lest INS and the IRS catch-up with her
People like Pena are the ones that do the most damage to legit forms of discrimination. These Pena types make me feel more contempt for them than other crooks, weasels, rats, and swindlers because they hurt the credibility of justifiable claims of actual discrimination.
Talking to other minorities, they are definitely against any proposal of a bailout and they definitely see one truth. That truth is you had as many ethnic lenders, brokers, and realtors “reach out a helping hand” to help others achieve the “American dream” of home ownership.
To prove this point, I sometimes listen to a community radio station. You won’t believe the number of realtor, lenders, and broker’s ads and hosts that appear on air stating “would you like to be the first in your generation to own a home, would you like to stop renting and feel a sense of self-pride to own a house that you would not have every imagined to see yourself living in, are you feeling the overwhelming daily burden of debts — and would like to know a way out — and are a homeowner, and so on…” There was also the classic line” “Buy now because real estate prices are not to be going down in the future and you don’t want to be left out of the American dream of owning a home.”
Also, you had other minorities that were in the game of flipping, investments, fraudsters, and speculators.
Minorities like others have felt the negative impact of the greedy, the investors, and the “How to Get Rich Quick — While Working From Your Home (or Not Put A Penny Down)” individuals.
This is why claims made by the one as Pena and the talks of a bailout won’t have any support by them.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070317/china_interest_rates.html?.v=4
Read this……..just got to be glad “Goldilocks” lives in the USA
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20070318:MTFH46792_2007-03-18_16-25-18_N18193288&type=comktNews&rpc=44