The Housing Bubble

Crazy thing is that his wife just stood there are watched without saying a word!! He probably does it to her too! I told my husband they are probably in hot water financially due to some sort of real estate related mess and he told me that I would probably also start trying to tie Greenspan to the Kennedy shooting as well!! I still think I am onto something!!! People are SICK!!

Where was Mr. Greenspan, on the day of November 22, 1963?

A Very “faux” news way to slander somebody, without threat of lawsuit. Fox News (fair and balanced) does it all the time.

I disagree. Fox news is not nearly as bad at the three network biggies, CNBC, or CNN. Since you say Fox does it all the time, how about a list of incidents we can follow up on?

The list would use up entirely too much valuable broadband, sorry.

Here’s the list of Foxisms..
http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/03/fox_news_crazy_.html

Somewhat damning no?

That’s cheating. If you make an unverified or misleading accusation, the same thing you attriute to FOX, you are no different. Um, . . .Actually, you ARE different, since you accuse FOX of libel by innuendo, while you appear to actively engage in it. Either you have a list of real events, or you are just repeating what others say, also without evidence. How about THREE incidents; or TWO, or maybe ONE?

I don’t like Fox news myself, but I think you’re showing a political bias. I notice the blogs and web sites that blast Fox day and night are ALL extremely left-wing or extremely right-wing.

I’m an inteligent man and can tell the difference between truth and lies. That’s all the proof I need.

Even if sometimes I struggle to spell “intelligent”

ha

“you accuse FOX of libel by innuendo, while you appear to actively engage in it. Either you have a list of real events, or you are just repeating what others say, also without evidence. How about THREE incidents; or TWO, or maybe ONE?”

Assuming you’re not kidding, how about the recent straight-faced reportage that Barak Obama attended a madrassa when he was growing up in Indonesia?

And for the record? The madrassas were started and financed by the USSD in Afghanistan when “we” were trying to tweak the Soviets there back in the 80’s.

Thanks for giving examples. But, erroneous reports are not the same as libelous innuendos. And Cuvoto is not a reporter. Still, they are good examples. Now, how about doing the same with CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, and CNBC? There are several organizations that monitor all the news broadcasts and cablecasts, and I don’t know of a single “provider” has a high score for honesty or accuracy. CNBC and the other NBC cable company are notorious for their ignorance of the real estate bubble, as bloggers here know. I place all their news programs on the same level as CBN’s “Noah’s Ark Found Today” sort of hooey. They all have a political or “religious” axe to grind, and advertisers to keep happy, so what can you do?

As for being smart and knowing the difference between truth and fiction, how does this work? I’m smart, too, sometimes, and I think this claim is fictitious.

The point to my original letter, which I should have made, is that throwing in stuff about FOX has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and is just another pot shot. The subject at hand was animal abuse.

You haven’t seen anything yet. See this in Cincinnati from yesterday’s paper. Don’t read further if you are faint of heart.

Yuk!

Reward is offered in gruesome death of dog
By Denise Wilson
Hamilton JournalNews
In one of the most extreme animal cruelty cases ever seen in Butler County, a dog’s body was found Thursday boiled and skinned along Four Mile Creek Road in Butler County’s St. Clair Township.

The Animal Friends Humane Society in Trenton is offering a reward for information leading to the arrest or conviction of those responsible.

The body of the dog - which humane society officials believe was a 2-year-old, dark brown male chow/pit bull mix - was brought to the humane society by Butler County Animal Control about 1:30 p.m. Thursday. It had been skinned, except for its feet, said Leland Gordon, executive director of the humane society.

A humane society veterinarian who performed an autopsy on the animal Thursday said it revealed that the 35 to 40-pound dog was boiled alive in oil or water and then skinned, Gordon said.

The dog’s body also had cuts on its legs and around the neck, he said. Around one of the rear legs, officials found a wire that might have been used to string up the animal, he said.

Gordon said it one of the most extreme animal cruelty cases the society has ever seen. “If people don’t like animals, they need to stay away from them,” he said, “or, if they have a problem animal, they need to bring him to their local animal shelter.

“Don’t do stuff like this to them. This is wrong, and it’s disgusting.”

Gordon said a similar case of a dog’s being skinned was reported about eight months ago in Morgan Township. That case also remains unsolved, he said.

Anyone with information about the dog found Thursday should call the Animal Friends Humane Society at (513) 867-5727 or write it at 5225 Trenton Road, Trenton, Ohio, 45067

I believe such cruelty should be punishable by same. I cannot even fathom the evil involved in such crimes, and there was a time when I didn’t believe in evil: I just considered it the absence of good (the perpetrators were “unenlightened”). Now I believe it is a force unto itself (the perpetrators are evil sons-of-bitches). And I am not religious.

” I cannot even fathom the evil involved in such crimes,”
I guess 3200 dead Americans in Iraq and 600,000 Iraqi’s is OK with you. No evil there!

It really is a question of perspective. I was in Arlington Cemetary this past weekend, visiting a friend who served in Vietnam. He was buried with his father who served in WWII. I found myself looking up the hill toward Lee’s mansion, at all of the rows of dead and wondering “Is that 3,000 dead? Do I see 3,000 headstones just here in this one portion of the cemetary? If I see 3,000 dead here, and this one man who we were here to visit had a dozen family members who were all hurt by his loss, how much loss, how much grief must those 3,000 friends, neighbors and families represent?”

I also looked around a little and noticed a half-dozen stones in the immediate area from D-Day, June 6, 1944. They died on the beaches at Normandy fighting to free France and throw off the yoke of Nazi oppressors who were really poised to try to take over the world.

Interestingly, using the new figures where the politicos only announce fatalities instead of casualties, storming the beaches of Normandy cost the Allies 2,500 dead.

2007-03-19 11:06:00
“‘I cannot even fathom the evil involved in such crimes,’
“I guess 3200 dead Americans in Iraq and 600,000 Iraqi’s is OK with you. No evil there!”

Excuse me, but what is the connection? Did I say the Iraq situation was good? Or that the deaths there are OK? You say “I guess . . . is OK with you?” Why would you guess something so incredibly stupid? Based on what? Did you have a paranormal feeling? Leaping to conclusions, especially such idiotic conclusions, is a sign of inductive, rather than inductive, thinking: the worst kind.

I opposed the war before it ever started, but the topic here was cruelty to animals, not war. Can one only oppose one bad thing at a time? If so, do you, therefore, think boiling dogs alive is not evil?

“inductive, rather than deductive” that should read.

“”I guess 3200 dead Americans in Iraq and 600,000 Iraqi’s is OK with you. No evil there! “”

Yes, what an incredibly asinine statement. As if it’s a zero-sum game. “I oppose cruelty to animals, therefore I don’t care about people.” Pathetic.

Important note, too… it is well-known that murderers, domestic violence perps and other violent people very commonly have a history of animal abuse, too. Call the cops on animal abusers and you might save some people…

I smell a troll . . . .

Thank Talon. Davidcee’s comment WAS stupid. I wonder if people bother reading the posts before firing off snide remarks.

Here is ghastly Florida, the welfare of animals doesn’t seem to mean much to our politicians, but I think the police are required to respond to animal abuse reports. Meantime, I hope they catch the bastard (s) who killed the dog as described in an above-post, and I hope the judge throws his, her, or their sorry ass (s) in jail for about a million years. Prosecutors should pile on the charges, and there should be no plea-bargaining. I tired of animals being treated as nothing more than property.

It’s changing, slowly. Animal cruelty, depending on the circumstances, is now a felony in many states.

Talon:

Thanks for your link to the info on how to pursue animal cruelty cases.

I probably would have just jumped the guy and taken his dog, but then he probably would have just gone home and taken it out on his wife. Criminal prosecution really is best.

-Big V

Right but when you’re a woman, if you’re “too smart” or make too much money, you cut out half of your potential market and the guys you’d be interested in go chasing the houskeepers or their secretary. See the movie “Spanglish” for example. It sucks either way.

Guys are totally insucure; that’s the only reason that makes any sense at all to me.

Why wouldn’t I want a smart women who brings in some good money? Are you really so insecure that the only way you measure yourself is by the size of your paycheck?

I made less money then my GF for awhile, and frankly, it bothered her more then me. She kept telling me how underpaid I was, but in a good natured way (not in the “go get a better job, deadbeat” way at all). I looked at the position as a great learning experience, and when I did change positions, increased my salary significantly (which is what I was working towards).

Anyway, I would never want a women to stay home and waste the day away. They don’t need to make more then me. But I have never met anyone that made “too much” money where I did not want to date them.

If you have confidence, the fact that the women across the table has a 6 figure income is attractive, not scary. I never want anyone to be dependent on my salary, or feel “kept” by what I can provide.

Right but when you’re a woman, if you’re “too smart” or make too much money, you cut out half of your potential market and the guys you’d be interested in go chasing the houskeepers or their secretary.

Right on, txchick. You’re singin’ my song!

Ditto here txchick.

You’re just not meeting the right guys…

You guys are totally full of it. A woman that stays home taking care of the kids and the household is not wasting the day away. This is possibly the most important job anyone can do. IMHO, one of the main reasons this society is in decay is “women’s lib” and how the communists have sold women the bill of goods that it is somehow better to be out in the work force as opposed to taking care of the children. The commies completed the propaganda by painting stay-at-home moms as uneducated barefoot idiots with no life. This was done purposely (along with a multitude of other programs like planned parenthood, affirmative action, ACLU, etc.) to destroy the US from the inside with a huge dose of moral and societal decay. Of course, the Fed didn’t help with 80 years of constant inflation. It used to take one wage earner with a high school education to be able to afford a house, two cars, and 4-5 kids along with college for the kids. Now it takes two college-educated wage earners to be able to afford 1-2 kids and only a mountain of debt for the college education and the house - which will never be paid off.

But women and society are so much better off now, huh? Not! And don’t accuse me of being a Bush-bot as I can’t stand the guy. Bush isn’t a conservative anyway. BTW: I’m married to an intelligent and educated woman who stays home (her choice) to take care of the kids. For a few more years anyway!

In the last 50 years women have become a large part of the work force, the problem is that GDP has not increased to the extent that work participation has increased. e.g. In 1955 the husband worked the wife stayed home and raised the kids. Now Both work by necessity and a day care raises the children. The “new GDP” has doubled, new industries that were previously not needed - day care facility - becomes big business. This is BS GDP and when we take out the BS GDP numbers we are worse off than in the 1950s.

Agree with Hoz & Darth Toll.

Thank you for recognizing the important work stay-at-home parents do.

You really don’t know how much work it entails until you’ve done it yourself. I’ve had jobs outside of the house & inside. I can guarantee 100% that most SAHPs work much harder than their “workforce” counterparts.

Just MHO.

I’ve always liked the adage, “A man aims for the best looking woman he can afford; a woman aims for the wealthiest man her looks will attract.”

Sounds like a match made in heaven!

The wealthiest man (Marblehead old money, looked like Dennis Connor) I ever attracted basically spent our one date laying out for me how he could make me his Eliza Doolittle…when he asked for a 2nd date, and it was more than once, I couldn’t say no fast enough.

Who wants to be somebody’s breakable little trophy kept hidden away in the big house?….or run in circles where you’re always known as the former peasant girl….yeah, set me up for that life…..(not)

Anybody with a spark for life and any level of intelligence wants to live life on their own terms and experience respect for who and what they are.

Pathetic, isn’t, that these guys think this is the crap women want to hear? Maybe it is and I’m just out of it.

I suggest perhaps looking more at scientists and engineers. Smart people with (more often than not) open minds. Hidden gems, especially the ones that seem to have close to zero social skills. Give them some time and attention, they get some confidence built up, and usually a likable personality develops.

The average doctor wants to marry a school teacher. The average investment banker wants a stay-at-home mother. The average lawyer wants an airhead with large breasts. Frankly, scientists and engineers are probably, per capita, the best-educated members of society that have no gender biases in the workplace.

My husband has an engineering undergrad.

That’s interesting….so does mine.

I think you’re onto something there Brian.

> The game men play is money; The game women play is men.

Hence Anna Nicole

Having spent a lot of time in the company of science and engineering grad students and postdocs, I am 100% certain that they are also attracted to large breasts. Actually, small ones, too. No, actually, anything with breasts.

“Frankly, scientists and engineers are probably, per capita, the best-educated members of society that have no gender biases in the workplace.”

I have an engineer friend in San Jose, CA., and his other half left him a couple of years ago because he wouldn’t buy a house there. The courts said, good enough; she got the assets and he got the liabilities.

In the year 2025

If the economy is still alive

Man just might thrive

and i’ll get my $1262.00

Maybe you will, too?

Oh good, he can buy more food.

Well they always have to draw these characters broadly, almost as a caricature, in order to cause different members of the audience to “identify” and have an emotional stake in the outcome. That’s why I find so many of those movies just insulting because as we all know, in real life there are very few absolutes, people are complex and you can’t wrap up most situations in an hour.

Maureen Dowd has written some good stuff about this guy with the secretary stuff. I’ve observed it myself over the years. I don’t know what the answer is and I’m glad I don’t have to figure it out.

fair enough.

Personally, id have to agree with you. Im not a big defender of men, and im damn glad i dont have to date them or find one. As a man, it does become a bit old to feel continually slated as the bad guy. Ah well, we all have our crosses to bear.

Movie simplicty. Agreed. Insulting yes. In a perverted way. I find it entertaining and charming.

J

Someone described being “in love” as being “in imagination”. Infatuation produces a hormone high, similar to an amphetamine high, which makes everything in the world to suddenly seem wonderful.
The secretary is the newest, freshest, sweet-young-thing in the guy’s life and thus his imagination runs wild; The wife at home represents yesterday’s long-ago-spent infatuation, where love’s imagination has waned.

As a little background on Spanglish, as I understand it, James Brooks, a normally reliable writer (see Broadcast News if you don’t believe me), had a horrible, protracted divorce with his wife about the time he wrote this. This was clearly reflected in Tia Leoni’s character.

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.” - Upton Sinclair

The WSJ isn’t a paper that converted to a pay for online access model, they offer better news (or really more specialized news) for a premium price. Your individual can march down to the library and read it for free (ymmv on the urine stains there) or pony up a few bucks a month and read it at home.
Besides the value of the insight is directly proportional to the number of people who don’t have it.

We’re not separated from reality via layers of editors, corporate/journalistic cultures, the need to appear balanced and to cover one’s ass, industry “experts”and “analysts” who have no idea what’s really going on at the ground level, the formality of the journalistic process, time delay and so on. We call BS on some dude on CNBC without having to worry about Maria Bartiromo being on our payroll too, stuff like that. We have no career here to lose, but plenty of others to call our bluff when we lie.

Yay, blogosphere.

A good example of reporting would be the el lay times…

A week ago, they pronounced that the Sierra Snowpack was adequate. If you didn’t know better, you’d believe them, who would ever lie about something as important as a source of fresh water?

The reality is that the snowpack is about 40 percent of normal, for both the Feather River system and the Eastern Sierra watersheds. And it has been melting furiously the past few weeks and over the next few weeks.

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/current/PLOT_SWC

Why couldn’t the el lay times reporter look at the same data, easily available, for all to see?

Who needs data? I was in Tahoe over the Super Bowl and could see the lack of snow with my own eyes.

passthebubbly: agreed. The ski season was a total wash. It may be a dry summer.

“You don’t need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind is blowing”…Bob Dylan

Sometimes i’ll think of forbiddden food combos, food that tastes good by itself, but if you mix it with something else, it’s downright horrible. An example would be oysters and peanut butter. So very wrong.

We are headed for a forbidden food combo of an downward accelerating real estate market in el lay, combined with a severe water shortage…

AHEAD OF THE TAPE
By JUSTIN LAHART
Believing In House of Cards Haunts Investors
March 19, 2007; Page C1

Investors who trusted in the magical powers of the stock market to forecast a recovery in housing have been finding out what can come of trusting in fairy tales.

Less than two months ago, the idea that the housing market was at a turning point, and that shares of home builders were a screaming buy, was firmly established. In early February, the Dow Jones Wilshire U.S. Home Construction Index of home-builder stocks was 39% above its July 2006 low point. Since then, it has tumbled 21%.
…..
But not everyone got caught up in the idea that housing was on the road to Wellville. Ivy Zelman, a Credit Suisse analyst who became bearish on home-building stocks as they approached their top in July 2005, has continued to document how far-reaching the sector’s woes extend. Her latest report, published last week, details how the mortgage mess could affect the builders. She estimates that 20% fewer new homes will be sold in 2007 than last year.

Northern Trust economist Paul Kasriel says he saw no reason to revise his negative view on housing this fall. He thought the speculation on the way up had led to a glut of homes on the market that couldn’t be easily worked through, and he suspected there were lurking problems in the lax lending standards that helped to fuel the latter stages of the boom.

Finally, with the help of bearish housing blogs like Calculated Risk, Mr. Kasriel kept tabs on a lot of the local news stories on housing. Even allowing for the fact that there was a negative slant to which items were selected, he says, “there were so many bad stories out there that it suggested further problems.”

I listened to Paul Kasriel on a business news broadcast at lunch today. The one new thing that he said was “Perhaps, the Fed wishes to cause a recession in order to get the excess out of the economy.” This may have some validity since the first duty of a federal reserve member is to lie. Contrary to popular belief, The fed is not stupid - it just acts that way. Personally I think of the fed as crooks.

Photographers have no secrets. I can go to Yosemite with a camera too, but that doesn’t make me Ansel Adams. The difference is in things like passion and execution.

I was talking more about the finished product, than the ability factor…

“the ability to take in all the facts and draw the worst possible conclusion from those facts”

What do call those that manipulate all the facts and then create the worst possible conclusion from those facts?

Politicians?

Loan Brokers?

Realtwhores?

“The United States has always been a low-savings and low-investment economy.”

I don’t believe history supports that statement. Consider the years from 1945-1960: high investment (built the freeway system and the subways, not to mention the post-WWII U.S. manufacturing base).

“subways”

Oops — misfired; meant to write “suburbs.” But come to think of it, maybe some “subways” as well (though the BART system came later…)

1961 here
I never understood where our country saw any ROI for the space program….except maybe SDI. (outside of computer development,Tang, and velcro, of course)

In regards to our current exploration of Mars and I just can’t fathom why a bankrupt country would not a cut such a program in an instant. Seems like the reasons people give sound oddly similar to those offered when asking an FB why he purchased a Hummer.

The Monday that ’ssshrubery (sadly, what passes for a leader in an era of lessened expectactions…) announced that we were going to Mars in 2020, (mad dog?) came after the Sunday when Paul O’Neil spilled his guts on 60 minutes…

They couldn’t counter the early devastating testimony of an honest man, so they trumped out a big story, to effectively block his tales of woe.

How much have you heard about our Mars plans, since?

We felt then that future historians would consider the US “golden age” to be somewhere between ~ 1921 - 1965.

According to Hobsbawm (I highly recommend his history of the 20th century) the fifties were a golden age for the whole world. At no previous moment in history had so many people had access to so much wealth (by wealth I also mean education, health care, etc.). That was the moment when our civilization really peaked. The Cold War even helped the West become more “compassionate”, if only to counter the attraction of the communist ideology. From then on, it all started to slide downward. What we are chronicling is all the anecdotal evidence of the decadence. There’s just not enough history buffs out there, so people don’t realize what’s happening. Oh, well, it had to happen some time. I just never thought it would happen in my lifetime. I thought it would take longer. Also, if history serves as an example, we are headed for an “in between” kind of period, until a new order finds its way. Those are always the toughest times. Aladinsane is ready for those…

Good points especially “it had to happen some time. I just never thought it would happen in my lifetime. I thought it would take longer.” All previous collapses took centuries, not less than 60 years. Is it rapid communication that accelerated this? And the news that “About one-third of the people living in the national’s capital are functionally illiterate, compared with about one-fifth nationally, according to a report on the District of Columbia.”( AP -Yahoo) I remember that in the 50s early 60s it was ~90% literate. Only Iceland had a higher literacy rate.

Does that also mean that 1/3 of congress is illiterate? LOL

Ever wonder why Denny’s has photos of every last food item on their menu?

I’m thinking the real # of f.i.’s, is closer to 50%…

Hoz, I thought that by its very openness and flexibility, this empire had more wind in it than others that preceded it. I was wrong, maybe its the communications. Things have just accelerated. Our generation lives in a different world from that of our parents, as for our kids, only God knows what’s in store for them.

Aladinsane, one of the Argentine founding fathers, the one who set up the whole education system (which used to be good), once said: Educate the people, if you don’t do it because you care for them, do it because you are afraid of them. Boy, was he right. I’m totally convinced that as the education system goes, so goes the country. Having read all we have about FB’s with no basic arithmetic skills, do you still have any doubts about that?

The last time education was a priority was 1957, after the Soviets shocked us with Sputnik and we decided we needed to play catch up, in a big way…

Get ready for “The Blame Game”, as this mess unfolds~

Who do you think gets singled out for the most criticism?

You all seem to be assuming that the current population of the United States actually IS educable….

Aladinsane, if you have been reading the papers for the last 20 years, you probably know we have been playing the blame game for decades. We have blamed tax and spend Democrats, conservatives covering for Wall Street, immigration, etc. etc. The housing bubble is just another event in this mess. Who gets to blame for it? Like I said before, don’t blame the pig, blame the one who feeds him.

Just wait until the push to help the newly homeless starts. Here’s the scenario as it is:

Hard Worker, 2002: Work, work.
FB 2002: “Woohoo, my house is going up!”
HW, 2003: Work, work.
FB 2003: *crusies by in Hummer, laughs at HW “Woohoo! Just took out equity!”
HW, 2004: Work, work.
FB 2004: *throws beercan at HW from new jetski* “Woohoo! Look at me jet-skiing from the money I got from a HELOC!”
HW, 2005: Work, work.
FB 2005: “WOOHOO!!! Look at me partying and living beyond my means! This is great and it ain’t never gonna stop!!!”
HW 2006: Work, work.
FB 2006: “Uh… wow. Is that my new mortgage payment?”
HW 2007: Work, work. Considers buying FB’s jetski, but not even at half-price.
FB 2007: *denied refi, full sale impossible, payments continuing to mount* “Eeep!”

Now the important step is what happens next. If FB has his way, it’ll be bail-out city. If the market has it’s way, FB will be living beside the road, while HW drives by in the ten year old family sedan. Bleeding hearts everywhere will decry how unfair it is for FB to be homeless, and how cruel HW is to refuse “charity” to “one in need.”

Is it unfair or is it justice? Obviously, I think it’s justice, and cannot and should not be tampered with. I firmly believe in the karma police, and if they’re not around, it’s up to me to enforce the law of karma. When you willfully destroy your finances through ridiculous overconsumption, you should suffer. It is your punishment for unwise behavior. If you don’t suffer, you won’t learn, and you’ll do it all over again.

HW 2008: *Shakes finger at FB* “No! Bad FB!” *Rubs nose of FB in mess* “I’m not cleaning that up! You’re going to have to live and sleep in it until you learn better!”