“More Receptive To A Deal Than You Would Imagine”
The Sun Sentinel reports from Florida. “Many builders are experiencing sales slowdowns and contract cancellations because of the real estate market slump, and they’re hungry for your business. Last week, Bradenton-based Taylor Woodrow Inc. announced a new program to attract home buyers. Under its ‘Forfeited Deposit Transfer Program,’ qualified buyers can use contract deposits forfeited by other buyers and apply those funds toward the purchase of a new Taylor Woodrow home.”
“‘We wanted to find a positive application for these forfeited deposits,’ said Sheila Johnson, director of sales and marketing for Taylor Woodrow in Palm Beach Gardens. ‘Making these monies available to potential buyers is a meaningful incentive that significantly increases their buying power.’”
“While Johnson wouldn’t disclose the percentage of the firm’s contracts that have been canceled by home buyers, she said the rate is higher than usual. ‘But we’re certainly not in panic mode,’ she said.”
“To avoid a buildup of excess inventory after cancellations, builders are offering sales incentives, some of which can be substantial. Taylor Woodrow also launched a new Web site to advertise available inventory, closeouts and grand opening specials at discounts from $30,000 to $500,000.”
“Sunrise-based G.L. Homes is also applying forfeited deposits to the purchase of other homes, according to Marcie DePlaza, division president.”
“David Levin, a Delray Beach-based housing analyst, said builders are anxious to avoid contract cancellations and to hold onto existing home buyers. He has advice for anyone under contract to buy a home who is thinking twice.”
“‘If you’re in danger of losing your deposit, go back and talk to your home builder,’ he said. ‘They may be more receptive to working out a deal with you than you would imagine.’
The Herald Tribune. “During the past year, Scott Corbridge, who runs Sarasota Management & Leasing, has seen a 100 percent increase in the number of rental properties that his firm manages.”
“Q: Why has your business grown so quickly? A: With the sales market as slow as it is, there are a lot of people who can’t sell and have placed their properties on the rental market. This has caused a glut of rentals available, making it more difficult to get properties rented.”
“Q: When did the majority of your clients purchase their properties? A: About half of our owners purchased in the past year.”
“Q: Are they now trying to sell those properties? A: Many of our most recent investors would like to sell their homes or have tried to sell prior to placing on the rental market. But they have been unable to sell in this market and have turned to rentals to gain some income until the sales market turns around.”
“Q: Have owners been perplexed or frustrated by rising real estate taxes and insurance rates? Q: Has the oversupply forced owners to drop rental rates to attract tenants? A: Absolutely. Either drop ‘em or lose ‘em.”
“Q: Is there an oversupply of homes and condos for rent? A: There is currently a six-month supply of unfurnished houses on the market for rent and a 10-month supply of unfurnished condos.”
“Q: Do you think the prices owners are asking and the prices renters are willing to pay are out of equilibrium? A: Yes. Many owners are unrealistic in what they feel they can rent their properties for. Renters are enjoying a good selection of properties on sale. It really is a renters’ market right now.”
“Q: Have owners had trouble coming to terms with maximum rents they can charge? A: Not really. They don’t like it, of course, but we educate our owners with hard facts and statistics that are difficult to argue with. It’s the uneducated owners who believe that they can rent for the same price they could two years ago that are suffering the most because they continue to sit empty. Then they decide to try to sell it and of course that is even more difficult right now. Those people are hurting.”
The Star Banner. “As delinquency and foreclosure rates nationally hit record highs, Marion County’s number of foreclosure filings jumped. In January, there were 141 filings, up from 99 in the same month last year, for a 42 percent increase.”
“When the housing market was at its zenith, speculators bought homes in droves and then looked to sell them quickly. Now those speculators are stuck with homes they can’t afford or unload. As a result home prices have dipped.”
“In Ocala, the average median sales price for an existing home dropped 4 percent in January, from $166,200 to $159,600, according to the Florida Association of Realtors. ‘When home price appreciation slows, the foreclosures tend to rise,’ said Darren Blomquist, for RealtyTrac.”
“Heath Fleming, owner of Fleming Mortgage Services in Ocala, said with the glut of inventory on the market and home prices continuing to fall, the number of foreclosures will likely continue to increase.”
“‘We’re still in the very, very early stages of this,’ said Fleming, who believes it will be ‘two to three years’ before the local housing market correction is over.”
The St Petersburg Times. “SkyPoint, the $80-million 32-story tower with 381 condos, is the biggest residential high-rise in downtown’s history. Its future residents will pioneer a way of life in a downtown known for its office towers, parking lots and deserted after-hours streets.”
“‘Downtown is very transitional,’ Bobby Neale said. ‘Sometimes it’s pretty vacant. But with all the things that are projected to come, I just see it getting better and better.’”
“With its floor-to-ceiling glass windows wrapped in Smurf-blue protective tape, SkyPoint hardly looks ready for occupation. Inside, it looks even more uninhabitable. On the 32nd floor, construction debris covers the floors of the penthouse suites. Dust swirls in the air. Wires dangle from the ceiling.”
“So who exactly are the people moving into these condos, which fetch from the $170,000s (for the 650-square-foot units) to more than $500,000? Downtown will soon find out.”
The Orlando Sentinel. “Are you thinking about buying an upscale, urban condo? Don’t settle for some chump dump in downtown Orlando. Not when you can move down the road to Tampa and live like The Donald.”
“Here it is, straight from Donald’s mouth: ‘The architectural design is truly distinctive, establishing a bold new landmark on the city skyline. Every residence will afford sweeping views of the water, and every detail, from the splendid finishes to the unrivaled amenities, will reflect the exceptionally high standards that every Trump building must satisfy.’”
“Donald arrived at the sales launch in 2005 with his usual panache. He proclaimed the project a major success with reservations on 98 percent of the units. He bemoaned not owning any more of the project than his already ’substantial stake.’ The groundbreaking was in March 2006, with completion in 2008.”
“And now I fast forward to the present, standing at a spot where I should be buried under a good 30 stories or so of rising concrete and steel. Weeds are the only visible life form. One crane stands idle. The snout of a second one rests limply on the ground, like it is taking a siesta. Even the Trump name can’t trump the great Florida condo implosion.”
“It turns out Trump’s ’substantial stake’ was a licensing fee for use of his name. The project is so muddled that attorney Tom Long, who is suing to get a deposit back for two buyers in the building, says, ‘Frankly, I don’t know who owns it.’”
“Buyers who put down 20 percent, many of them investors, are in a sticky situation. If they all demand their money back now, that could increase the odds of a bankruptcy. As with many high-flying Florida condos, once you shake out speculators and flippers, it’s hard to find locals who can afford to live in them.”
“At the lonely sales office, real estate agent Toni Everett still has her red laser pen ready to point out amenities on a model of the building. Desperate for good press, she offers me first crack at any big news about the project for a positive article.”
“Toni says people will be moving into Trump Tower Tampa in 2009. If she’s right, I’ll take a swan dive into the neighboring Hillsborough River from the 52nd floor.”
‘Five years from now, Florida could be right back on its blithe “build at all costs” trend, with people streaming in to grab their piece of paradise. But if the trend goes the other way, it raises real concern for financing local government. Recently, Mark Vitner, an economist for Wachovia Corp., noted that a net increase of 47,000 new students had been predicted to enter Florida schools in 2006. In reality, only 470 did so.’
‘Obviously, some districts continued to grow, while others lost students. But until recently, 470 new students would have been a bad year for most individual districts in Florida. But for the whole state?’
‘Veronica Hearst, widow of newspaper heir Randolph Apperson Hearst, is asking $27 million for a Florida estate that the couple bought in 2000 for nearly $30 million.’
“‘Obviously, some districts continued to grow, while others lost students. But until recently, 470 new students would have been a bad year for most individual districts in Florida. But for the whole state?’”
There are accounting benefits to sandbagging growth numbers until first part of next school year. If these numbers turn out to be true come August, FL is in some real trouble. Even more than most thought.
These were P1 numbers, the first blush look at school enrollments at the beginning of the year. P2, which occurs around March 1st of the school year is the one to watch as it is the basis for next year funding.
She’s probably saving a few extra dollars listing in the classifieds………
(rosebud)
Citizens could get Kaned…
Whoa. Today the implosion hit talk radio. I was listening to Glenn Beck this morning (Everything he says annoys me, but listen anyway for reasons too perverse to explain). He was ranting about lax lending practices and the evil of interest-only loans and their role in the increase in foreclosures. The more they talk, the deeper the panic…
Recently, Mark Vitner, an economist for Wachovia Corp., noted that a net increase of 47,000 new students had been predicted to enter Florida schools in 2006. In reality, only 470 did so.’
OK, so just flunk 46,530 High School seniors. Most could probably use an extra year of education.
You’re thinking too short-term, Sammy.
They need to flunk 46,530 high school seniors, and about 10k extra kids across every other grade. You need to start building a backlog today to ensure a full pipeline in the future. F* the kids, give us our money!
It’s more common than you would think for builders to try to wheel and deal after the fact. My boss got out of her contract 3 months ago. The builder decided to let her get her deposit back AND take advantage of the new pricing. Against my advice, she went for it.
During the boom boom times, builders had HUGE margins. Here in Pullman, they still budget for 40% gross margins. So there is still a LOT of room for discounting–and still turning a profit.
We won’t really be at bottom until builders will lose money just to unload the carry costs of a home.
That is the day I am waiting for. The banks will be unloading their foreclosures for 1/2 off too.
It is only beginning.
The saving grace for the builders is the land they are building on now was purchased years ago and on the books that purchase price is used to determine profit margin. Next year they will be buying land at half off peak prices, but their reported profit margin will be based off of the peak purchase price.
That’s gonna leave a mark.
“Under its ‘Forfeited Deposit Transfer Program,’ qualified buyers can use contract deposits forfeited by other buyers and apply those funds toward the purchase of a new Taylor Woodrow home.”
Translation: We want to aid and abet mortgage fraud, so instead on lowering the price to fair market value, we’re going to give a kickback.
So what does this mean, exactly? If I want to buy a house in a development where someone forfeited their deposit, they just hand that money over to me and reduce the price by that amount? Sweet! Some of those deposits were pretty hefty. Now, that’s what I call OPM! (Other People’s Money, a concept widely promoted by real estate seminar hucksters. Carlton Sheets must be in heaven!). I’d be pretty pissed if I were one of the folks who walked away from a deposit.
Right, they are going to let them use the deposits of other buyers money for a down payment so they can keep the price higher and the lender is suppose to go along with this and act like the new buyer is putting a down payment on a inflated appraisal .I call fraud and its a form of a cash back deal.
The name of the game is how to get around the lenders not being willing to give 100% financing anymore . I got a idea ,lower the price builder and you the builder can take back the 20% that the lender doesn’t want to lend your speculator/unqualified buyers any more ,how about that one builder ?
Yeah, forget the Forfeited Deposit Transfer Program. Where’s the Just Lower The Goddamn Price Already Program?
I have no objections to some FB subsizing my eventual home purchase (though I seriously doubt that I’ll buy anything built between 2001-2007, as the materials and workmanship are so shoddy).
Isn’t there a tax impact there? Isn’t the money they’re offering to me considered income to me? Go check with a reputable accountant before trusting these shysters.
I agree ..I would think that if a builder structure a gift of another persons deposit to be given to the new buyer it would be a tax liability .
I’m sure they can get around it by reducing the price and offering 100% financing. Just depends on the way they phrase it. But, it would be interesting if the IRS got ahold of this data and went after some of the FBs who take the offer.
Right. Where’s the government governance here?
All these scams just keep the prices up . You want the builder to lower the price to what the true market will bear and stop with the fraud to keep the prices up or obtain financing for the unqualified . As long as the games continue a real correction is delayed and more people get hosed . 2006 was just keeping the party going with cash-backs and incentives/fraud by raising appraisals .
and FL has the toughest condo laws -or used to - builder is on the hook for 5 year warranties and other covenents
Only 5? California is ten for latent (hidden) and 3 for patent (known) defects.
Gee, what a shock that the same idiots who couldn’t sell because overpricing can’t rent because of overpricing.
“Gee, what a shock that the same idiots who couldn’t sell because overpricing can’t rent because of overpricing.”
The idiots can’t rent because of the glut of rental properties. 2/2 in PBC has dipped to the $1050 range down from $1200 just a year ago.
and housing is worth 110 x rent
in good times
“and housing is worth 110 x rent
in good times ”
So you mean that 2/2 conversion wasn’t worth the $249,900 the developer was selling it for? You’re kidding me!
ROTFL
Yet people don’t see the light…
Soon to be family saw a friend of mine (whom they know too) laid off from #39 on the implode-o-meter and yet they still think real estate only goes up.
Florida, OC, San Diego, Sacramento, DC… all are going to get “hammered.”
Got popcorn?
Neil
“they still think real estate only goes up.”
That’s what happened to my old bagholder landlord. They bought in at $200K on a 2/2 condo conversion. Rented it at $1,100 (a great deal when we signed our lease) and now he’s complaining about renting out at $995 per month. He’s got to be taking a hit of $400 or $500 every month.
In other news…the same units are moving in the $170’s off from their high of $250’s. Why didn’t he sell when they were in the $250’s instead of renting to us? That’s right! Real estate only goes up.
People have a weird mentality. Once stocks/housing/whatever starts dropping from their plateaus, they hold on hoping that high price is reached again instead of selling for the profit they have at the moment. Trying to squeeze every marginal dollar out is how “investors” end up holding when the market goes bear and buying too late during bull runs.
“they hold on hoping that high price is reached again instead of selling for the profit they have at the moment.”
2/2 is probably worth $100K with the 1/1’s in the $75K range. That was the 2001-2002 pricing model for condos. If that’s the case, our old landlord will be kicking and screaming all the way to the BK court.
Yes, well, as a renter who is in temporary digs and desperately looking for a reasonably priced place (in Florida, $1,000 for a 1 bedroom overlooking a sewage ditch is ridiculous), I can tell you they are hard to find for just one person, in this area. Oh, yes, there’s plenty of overbuilt, high end family housing. That’s where the glut is.
But where I live, any moderate priced housing was taken out by developers, builders and subsidized housing for guest workers. High end and low end is what remains. Meanwhile, a strip of 14 fourplexes along Apollo Beach Blvd. sits gutted and up for sale. But not available to singles or couples that need to rent, no sir.
Ok, so I had a frustrating weekend looking for a rental. Also the spew I had to listen to from realtors didn’t exactly do wonders for my mood. They’re all moist with delight over the “Parade of Homes”, while I’m on the phone holding a barfbag under my chin.
“Parade of Homes”. LMAO! Some of the developments they built around here are smack in the middle of gangbang territory and low income barrio housing for guestworkers. I hope they sell out each and every one of those Soviet gulags to stupid FBs, I really do.
One realtor actually admitted to me that with the builders offering 10% commissions to realtors for bringing a buyer, most are not showing houses that individual sellers are trying to unload at 5%. “What would you do if you were in that situation?” she asked me. I wanted to say “Show the buyer what’s best for them in their situation”, but what’s the use? These a**hats have drunk so much of their own koolaid they need diapers and bedpans.
Oh, yeah, one other thing: they’re still singing the tune about all the baby boomers moving to Florida.
I hope they all (realtors, lenders, developers and FBs) get boned during the recession.
“Yes, well, as a renter who is in temporary digs and desperately looking for a reasonably priced place”
What area are you looking? Palm Beach County? I can set you up with an agent if need be. You can do 1BR around $800
Hey, Andy, thanks, but I’ve over in SouthShore Tampa Bay, the southern end of Hillsborough County. Middle income rentals used to be plentiful around here as recently as 3 years ago. There were a lot of individual landlords who rented small house, cottages, duplexes and fourplexes. Either they got eaten up by developers, or FBs who jacked up the rents or the neighborhoods got taken over by guestworkers and gangbangers. If I were willing to move to Pinellas, I’d have no problem finding a nice place as low as $600.00, but around here, everyone has gone rabid.
“If I were willing to move to Pinellas, I’d have no problem finding a nice place as low as $600.00, but around here, everyone has gone rabid. ”
I hate to put a line out there supporting the enemy, but get a real estate agent and look at the rentals on the MLS. They are all over the board (at least here in PBC). Same 1BR condo ranges from $750 on the low end to $1,000 on the you’ve got to be insane end.
You’d also be wise to see if you can figure out what kind of financing the bagholder landlord is using. You don’t want to have your stuff thrown on the curb.
” but get a real estate agent and look at the rentals on the MLS. ”
I’ve already gone that route, that’s why I was ranting. I’m looking in a very limited two town region for business reasons. They do have moderate rentals over in Sun City Center, which is nearby and nice, but you have to be 55 or over to rent there. Not to mention a lot of the residents have nothing better to do than monitor their neighbors, which is kind of creepy.
I’ve been through this before, it’s just going to take time and patience, but I will find something eventually.
Palmetto, have you tried this website?
http://www.rentclicks.com/
What’s nice is that most of the listings indicate whether the property is managed by a company or some FB.
Hey there…I’ve been reading this blog for awhile now and it’s thoroughly enlightened me to the fact that I need to be renting now, not looking to purchase again. I”m planning on relocating to Florida this year and was wondering how to check out a potential landlord’s financing situation…do you just look it up at the tax office? Are there danger signs to look out for that might end up with you losing your deposit and your stuff on the street?
And not for nothing, but what in the heck does FB stand for?
I read a story last year–maybe here–about a Hawaii renter who took out an ad in the Honolulu newspaper specifiying the type of property she wanted to rent. I don’t know if she gave any specifications as to price, but if I remember correctly she was deluged with responses.
FloridaBound,
Most Florida counties have public records online. I would google the following for the county to which you are looking to move:
1. property appraiser’s website (sales records)
2. clerk of court’s website or comptroller’s website (all public records such as mortgages)
Good luck!
PS
FB = f*cked borrower
Hi,
Everyone here will probably have nothing but bad things to say about me, but we have a house that we use sometimes and rent out in a nice golf course community (Heritage Oaks) in Sarasota, just east of I-75 near Bee Ridge Road. It’s furnished (reasonably well), in fact it’s turnkey ready for use by seasonal renters. In season we get around $4k/month, but then we don’t have it rented for a while. Nice golf course and clubhouse, use of which is part of the deal. This may be a bit south of where you want to be, and I don’t know if the furnished part of the equation works for you (amazes me that having a furnished place is actually a sometimes hindrance, but oh well), and I don’t know how long of a lease term you want, but if this is of interest, email me at mariner_78@yahoo.com
And just for the record for everyone else, I’m not an overextended FB “desparate” for a renter, so everyone please don’t rag on me, OK ??
Regards / M78
“And just for the record for everyone else, I’m not an overextended FB “desparate” for a renter, so everyone please don’t rag on me, OK ??”
LOL, mariner, I’ve been reading your posts and you never sounded like a desperate FB to me. And I want to thank you for your offer. Sincerely. It is farther south than I need to be, for business reasons. With gas the way it is going, I may just have to bite the bullet and pay the price around here. But again, I am deeply grateful for the offer.
I hear you…. Hillsborough County has a glut of FBs right now who can’t afford to lower their rental asking prices b/c they’d rather have their house sit vacant than take a loss on rent. We were in the same situation. We were looking in January. I’m in Westchase and want to stay in the area b/c of my kids schools, so unfortunately we were stuck with Westchase prices. We ended up staying where we’re at for $1350 a month (ridiculous) b/c it would have cost us more to move (even to a place with cheaper rent) and we were scared to move into an FB’s house that could be foreclosed on 3 months later. At least we’ve been in the same place for 2+ years, so we’re not worried about our landlord kicking us to the curb.
Good luck with your search, palmetto. I feel for you.
10% commission!?!?! You should say “I’ll be expecting at least three-fourths of that, scambag”. Aren’t they supposed to be working for you?
Same rental problem in the IE. Big houses are easy to find, and rents are coming down. Looking for a place for one person, if under 55 is silly. I think they still want you to cover their mortgage: this month. Waiting patiently in the IE with my popcorn.
Hey Palmetto
Wanted to reply below, but I don’t think there’s any room…
Anyway, thanks for the response. I’ve had some responses from potential buyers for this place who were working in Tampa that
ran along the same lines you are saying. Guess it’s a bit of a haul.
Anyway, tks also your comments - SW Florida is an area of interest for me and I always like to get commentary from others who are on the ground. Like everyone else here, I think it’s going to get worse before it gets better. But this will get overdone on the downside just as badly as it’s gotten overcooked going up, and at the bottom of the cycle I think there will be a great chance to pick up some great assets at severly discounted prices (and then sell them during the next upswing and make outrageous profits). Lather, rinse repeat. That’ll be great for me - and after a couple of more cycles, I’ll be old enough to look forward to my dotage.
Anyway, I’m enjoying your posts, and will stay in touch.
Cheers / M78
My wife and I were out looking at rental homes over the weekend. One home we looked at the owner was asking for $2500/mo (in north Orange County). He claimed many upgrades. You know, brand new linoleum flooring in the kitchen, new dark green carpet, and an AC wall unit. I thought to myself, is this guy kidding!
The owner gave us the standard line. You know, lots of people are looking at this home but I like YOU. He also looked very nervous. Anyway, the rent was at least $500 to much. How do I know. I went down ths street and saw the exact same house for rent for $500 less. Not to mention that this house looked a lot better than the first house.
When we left the house, I told my wife, “watch, this guy is going to call us; he looks desparate”. What do you know, he called me three times. Man, he is in for a reality check.
There are no decent jobs in Florida. Rental income pays many a bill down here.
Do your fellow renters a favor when he calls and tell him that you found the same place for much cheaper.
The faster the new landlords get educated, the sooner this insanity stops.
Don’t forget to mention that you are holding off on the cheaper rental because so much inventory is coming online that prices are dropping dramatically. That ought to have him climbing a tall building in no time!
“‘If you’re in danger of losing your deposit, go back and talk to your home builder,’ he said. ‘They may be more receptive to working out a deal with you than you would imagine.’
As we listen in the Homebuilder is heard to say, “Hell no - you can’t have your Fricking desposit back!”
“But we’re certainly not in panic mode”
Translation - They’re in panic mode.
Yup!
“Translation - They’re in panic mode. ”
Not panic mode yet. I think we should call it sweating bullets with hand outstreched reaching for the panic button mode.
Its future residents will pioneer a way of life in a downtown known for its office towers, parking lots and deserted after-hours streets.”
…and in a city recently known for serial rapists stalking elderly and handicapped women.
Actually, Skypoint is in downtown Tampa. Like many new developments, the building looks phallic in its profile. Maybe “Cialis Towers” or “Levitra Lofts” would be a more appropriate name.
http://www.skypointcondos.com
IMHO, Downtown St. Pete has slightly more appeal than downtown Tampa. I’m not a fan of Pinellas County, but I get the sense that people are at least trying to make downtown St. Pete look nice.
If you want to see how flat Florida is (and if you can make it past the sappy intro to the web page), open the panoramic view and place your cursor on the horizon. It doesn’t waver off it one bit!
A cloud potato? WTF. Selling clear skin, tight bodies, blue sky and money to burn. Condos as adornments. Risk as beneath entertaining. No worries. And then one day, a cold hard morning comes.
LOL!! That’s the first thing I thought to myself as well.
All I could think was an episode of The Apprentice where some wannabe project manager gets an idea: “I know, a CLOUD POTATO!”
“Touch the clouds. Own the sky. Soar.”
Is this a premonition of all the FBs jumping off the 30th floor when the curtain comes down?
You couldn’t pay me to move to St. Pete. That’s one scary city. If there ever is a hurricane to hit that area, St. Pete will make New Orleans look like Mayberry. Oh, yes, and it has this great new mobile tent city for the homeless where you, as a decent, taxpaying property owner, can all of a sudden find Woodstock for the Down & Out camping on your doorstep.
Last year when GM touted it’s “Employee Discounts For Everybody” program, (a thinly veiled re-do of the 3 other rebate programs they’ve done, over the past couple of decades)
I knew they’d have a little limited success, as we love to think we are getting an “insider” deal.
“Many builders are experiencing sales slowdowns and contract cancellations because of the real estate market slump, and they’re hungry for your business. Last week, Bradenton-based Taylor Woodrow Inc. announced a new program to attract home buyers. Under its ‘Forfeited Deposit Transfer Program,’ qualified buyers can use contract deposits forfeited by other buyers and apply those funds toward the purchase of a new Taylor Woodrow home.”
“‘We wanted to find a positive application for these forfeited deposits,’ said Sheila Johnson, director of sales and marketing for Taylor Woodrow in Palm Beach Gardens. ‘Making these monies available to potential buyers is a meaningful incentive that significantly increases their buying power.’”
You too can win, riding the coat tails of some other loser. That’s what they are saying, in not so many words.
For many years in the el lay area, i’d consign coins to various smaller auctions and my favorite one was an auction house that received legitimate police confiscations and the coins i’d consign were always dodgy (low grade, damaged or just subpar in some fashion) and the great unwashed public would always pay 2 to 10 times what things were worth, because they wanted to win at the expense of the criminals.
How will the seller respond when buyers ask: Why did the last person cancel?
“How will the seller respond when buyers ask: Why did the last person cancel?”
Because it was overpriced by about 50%. Now it’s only 30!!!
Notice how people responded when GM’s prices went back up. People stopped buying.
That’s why Florida real estate is about to return to its permanently low pricing.
So I have a question:
By reports, these condo towers sound like they’re in the middle of nowhere, despite being downtown.
I just visited a new condo here in the Mpls metro area. It is LITERALLY located in an office complex, across a major highway from the Airport. There is nothing to walk to. THere is no residential anything. Just office towers, and now a condo tower (actually, it’s 2 condo towers joined), and a major highway, and an airport.
You cannot even open the windows. (the windows are triple paned with argon gas to keep street/airplane noise down). I must admit, you can not even hear a peep when the 747’s take off RIGHT over you (I kid you not, you can read the airplane ID number from the condos)
Is this the same there in Florida?
Why would you want to live in an Office Park near an Airport, and not even be able to open windows.
We asked the sales lady this. She said “oh, the plan is that in the next 10-20 years we’ll build 12 more condo towers, and this will be the 3rd major downtown in the metro area”.
Uh… ok.
I can’t decide if a I want a condo in lubbock,tx, madison ,Wi or Asheville NC
why condo anywhere ?
Don’t forget McAllen, Texas or Bozeman Montana
Detroit, MI
Yeah, but if you get that high rise in Lubbock, you’ll be able to see 4 states and Mexico (at least before the tornado blows it away).
“why condo anywhere”
For us peripatetic bi-seasonal retirees, the condo concept is a good one. One can walk away from the condo building in summer (or winter as the case may be) and know that basic maintenance/security of the building will be taken care of in one’s absence. But long-term apartment rental accomplishes approximately the same thing.
Well, in defense of Madison condo’s (although, they are priced at least 50% more than they’re worth). They’re mostly downtown with a view of one of the two lakes (Madison is centered on an isthmus) or the capitol building. Downtown also has plenty to do. I rent in the area and like living there.
Of the non-conversion buildings, only one is tragic. The Marina (dubbed “the beer can”). It’s hideos and all outer walls are floor to ceiling windows. Who wants to live in a fishbowl.
Incidentally, a couple of smaller home builders with heavy exposure to the Florida housing market reported their earnings/losses today. They confirm what I’ve been saying for a while — the Florida market is one of the weakest nationwide.
* Technical Olympic USA said Q4 2006 orders dropped 34% year-over-year, with cancellation rates jumping to 49% from 22%. Some comments: “Our margins declined due to our reducing prices and increasing incentives in order to maintain sales velocity in light of the larger issues of adverse market conditions, which include increased cancellations, decreased demand, too much supply, and low affordability.”
Meanwhile, Tarragon Corp. said orders dropped around 15% to 448 from 527 a year earlier. The company cut prices aggressively to generate those sales, too — with its average sales price sinking to $227,000 from $263,000.
Hey Mike, do you know of any rentals in your neighborhood under 2K a month?
Not off the top of my head, but I do know that Craigs List is full of rental ads for Palm Beach County, and that more and more “for sale” ads are now “for sale/for rent.” Even if you can’t find a property LISTED for rent below $2,000/mo., I have a feeling it wouldn’t be too hard to bargain landlords down toward or below that threshold. There’s a lot more competition for tenants out there these days.
Thanks! I think I may have to find a home in your neighborhood, even though nearby Botanica looks like the built-out sections are 50% vacant/for sale/rent.
Abacoa, which is a “master planned community” down the street, looks like it’s having a fire sale! There are several dozens of properties listed for rent.
Most of the ridiculous highrise condo projects in downtown Tampa are doomed to fail, because the area is disgusting. Nobody with a brain wants to live in downtown Tampa, especially on Franklin or Tampa Streets; Ashley Street isn’t much better. There is NOTHING do do downtown, nowhere to go downtown, nobody to see downtown. The place is ugly, dirty, depressing, mostly old, and smells. Much of downtown Tampa is made up of Skid Row. The place is not pedestrian friendly, either.
The way Ben posted the excerpts, it appears the article is discussing downtown St. Petersburg, but downtown St. Petersburg is wonderful, beautiful, charming, interesting, chocked full of stuff to see and do and has lots of great places to eat–the exact opposite of downtown Tampa. Except for one small end of downtown Tampa where everything is new, the place is so revolting, it is almost mind-boggling. And the new end is so junked-up, it, too, has become mind-boggling. Harbour Island, once pretty, now looks like a glorified, overpriced ghetto, and there is no way one can look out to see anything, because developers have blocked all views with more rubbish. If you are claustrophobic, stay away, because most of the streets are narrow and one-way, and the buildings crammed up to the sidewalks. There are virtually no open spaces, no real parks, no beautiful areas ANYWHERE. If one were listing the ugliest cities in America, Tampa would probably rank #1 or (more appropriately) #2.
I agree with Palmetto’s view of St. Pete in general, but not downtown St. Pete. As for the tent city for the homeless, why doesn’t the city just build a shelter? Tampa doesn’t have one, either.
Note that the St. Petersburg Times article about condos in downtown, is referring to downtown TAMPA, not St. Petersburg. SkyPoint is in Tampa.
Not to mention that Tampa is basically sinking into the bay, and no one wants to admit it. Bayshore Blvd. is underwater if there is so much as a moderate chop on the bay and if there is just a sprinkle of rain, all the cars in South Tampa have to drive through three feet of water.
It’s not sinking; it’s always been this way. Now, with the overbuilding, it’s just worse. The drainage system cannot handle the population, which has quadrupled over the past twenty years or so. It couldn’t handle it back then.
However, the Press always refers to Tampa as “paradise,” and the locals take the bait. Pointing the ghastly phosphate piles and tanks and facilities across the water on Hillsborough Bay–the unsanitary dump Bayshore’s residents pay fortunes to look at–doesn’t make a dent. People CANNOT SEE the crap, or just pretend it isn’t there.
“It’s not sinking;”
Sorry for the type. I meant to say “sTinking”.
Thank you for making me laugh.
I agree with your assessment of “downtown” St. Pete. It is nice to go visit…I especially like the events they put on in the Vinoy Park area and the Pier and basin areas. Nice bars and eateries within walking distance. There is definitely “world class wealth” in that gentrified area.
However, go a few blocks north of Central and you regress into some pretty tough areas. The inner city fires and riots of 1997 come to mind….
St. Pete is nice; but still has its “Barbarians at the Gate” like other metro areas.
Les, you’re right about that. But, even less wealthy areas of downtown St. Pete are charming; really, if you start at MLK near Central and walk to the bay, it’s quite wonderful. Such interesting architecture, too, with all the Spanish stuff. I don’t like the few highrises, which are completely out-of-place. However, compared to Tampa, the WHOLE place is gorgeous. Even Baywalk (despite the teenage crime) and everything around it. I could live in downtown St. Petersburg, but NEVER in downtown Tampa.
Without comparisons to Tampa, the rest of St. Petersburg is awful, except for places on the water, which are iffy, and has a bleached, blighted look, even in prosperous areas.
“Toni says people will be moving into Trump Tower Tampa in 2009. If she’s right, I’ll take a swan dive into the neighboring Hillsborough River from the 52nd floor.”
LOL.
He’ll win that bet.
It will be interesting to see how Trump manages the PR spin this downturn…
I see the beaver stapled to his head running for shelter and safety.
Got popcorn?
Neil
Toni Everette is Tampa’s # Real Estate Shark, and has her fingers in all kinds of outrageouly-overpriced projects. It’s a family greed-for-all business. She has plastic surgery every year or so to keep herself in tip-top real estate broker condition, and uses Glamour Shots in her promos. She’s been trying to push Trump tower condos for years now, using phrases like, “–condos still available,” or “have become available,” instead of X-specuvestors have backed out of their contracts. Everything is designed to make it look like it is a privledge to live in Trump Tower. Another never-to-be-built condo project near downtown on Kennedy Boulevard across from the Amscot payday check advance dump and I believe a Wendy’s/Taco Bell has a sign out, “accepting reservations.” Another never-to-be built condo project on the same trashy street calls itself “The Boulevard,” and uses modern art imagery to convey the impression that living there is the ultimate in elegance and upscale beauty: this on one of the worst streets in Tampa in one of the most unattractive areas. I guess, when one is socially elevated enough to live at “The Boulevard” on THE Boulevard (Kennedy Boulevard), one cannot even perceive something as lowly as dirty industry, car repair joints, loan sharking, and Taco Bell next door or across the street.
Incredulous is exactly right. Toni Everett has positioned herself as realtor to Tampa’s wanna-be rich and famous. She’s always pushing “lugzhurry” condos and for a long time, her ads dominated the real estate section of the Tampa Tribune, with the condo mockups exactly as Incredulous has described. I’m shocked, I tell you, shocked, that a reporter would portray her as a pathetic, over the hill shill. She probably is, too, considering all the revenue she’s pumped into the local print media.
WOW! Thanks for the details.
Palmetto, the thank you for making me laugh comment above, was supposed to post down here, following your comments.
Glad you liked, Incredulous. I lived in South Florida for many years where characters like her were a dime a dozen, in a number of different industries. When I moved over here and saw her ads and publicity every Sunday, I immediately had an idea of exactly who and what she was, without ever seeing or knowing her. You summed her up, spot on.
I’ve been here forever, it seems, and it’s worse now than before. The pretentiousness is astonishing, given the fact this is TAMPA, a backwater. I love the South Tampa magazine and others of its ilk that use royalty free stock model photos on the covers, because no female outside in Tampa has beautiful makeup in 100% humidity and heat (it slides off), and almost nobody in Tampa looks good up-close. I see teenagers with wrinkles and other sun damage.
I live in, pardon the expression, Hyde Park (33606 zip), and we have no foreclosures (only “preforeclosures”) I can track down, so I guess a lot of the phonies here actually do have money. Just no taste.
That portion of Kennedy Boulevard is not going to improve any time soon. It is one of the neighborhoods where Darryl Strawberry and Dwight Gooden always seem to be getting into trouble.
I especially liked the part explaining that Donald Trump’s significant stake in the project was a licensing fee for the use of his name. Hey, which Florida property was it that winning Apprentice Kendra Todd was going to work on? was it this one or some other?
We went to some open houses this weekend here in Ft lauderdale, no traffic, Rabid realtors, and believe it or not, one of them actually said.. if you can wait, prices will probably drop more.. I almost passed out.
I had one Realtor ™ tell me that about six months ago.
I too was in shock. I still have his card.
Got popcorn?
Neil
Thanks for your insight. I saw that Kool-Aid glass sitting on a table and I wanted to see what it would taste like. Seriously!
Thank you for saving me, guys.
Sellers in Florida are still in serious denial; especially in Broward County (Miramar, Pembroke Pines are areas I track). One home that is on the market for the past 90 days was recently reduced to $414,900 from 419,900!
I am thankful for this blog…it keeps me sane in the face of all around me with their head in the sand.
I’ll add to the chorus about this and other blogs keeping me sane. Its a bit re-assuring that there are others who see that we have a problem. Before, we could be shouted down. Now? We have the confidence of knowing we aren’t the only ones to see this. Not to mention good statistical data accumulated from hundreds of sources.
Got popcorn?
Neil
Follow the market down ….Baby, Follow it way down!
Coming to a short sale near you!
Ditto on this blog keeping one sane. It also restores my faith that at least some of us humans have a smidgeon of common sense left. Thanks.
Thomas Hobbes wrote about anarchy as a “war of all against all”. Anarchy reigns in the RE market, and “common sense” consists of being on the right side at the right time. We collectively are taking advantage of all the FB’s, but that’s life, somebody wins. It’s us, apparently.
(‘Five years from now, Florida could be right back on its blithe “build at all costs” trend, with people streaming in to grab their piece of paradise. But if the trend goes the other way, it raises real concern for financing local government.)
Local governments in growing areas can defer costs to the future through retiree benefits. Lots of new hires paying in to the pensions, lots of new taxpayers, but relatively few retirees collecting health and pension benefits.
What happens when the music stops? New York City in the 1970s — near bankrupcy, soaring taxes, diminished services, rotting infrastructure.
NYC passed through that transition and survived, as people who live here now do so in the expectation of higher taxes, bad schools, libraries open four days a week for a few hours, semi-abandoned parks, etc. And yet they come and pay.
We’ll see how suburban and Sunbelt America does, especially as its poor and elderly population and related costs rises at the same time.
‘Five years from now, Florida could be right back on its blithe “build at all costs” trend, with people streaming in to grab their piece of paradise.
Hehehe…. perhaps we’ll see this again in the New York Times ca. 2012
From the Diane Swonk link:
“Although the economy probably looks better on paper than it feels, she said, “The good news is that the best is ahead of us.” Swonk predicted that the economic expansion will probably make it to 2010.
“The expansion is like fine wine and women,” she said. “We both get better with time.”
Diane Swonk link
Mesirow Financial is funding a new condo tower just west of the Loop in downtown Chicago. I can see the site from my window. They tore down a historic building and 2 or 3 non-descript ones to make room and now, after 5-6 months, it’s nothing more than a hole in the ground. No equipment on site or anything.
Contrast this with the construction site two blocks north of me, which broke ground 2 months ago and is maintaining an impressive construction rate. The core is at level 3 or 4. Did I mention that this building is twice the size of the Mesirow-backed one?
I personally wouldn’t listen to the ramblings of someone at Mesirow; they have skin in the game and are feeling the heat to sell some condos.
Hopefully Cites have gotten wise to the fact that because most of the new hires DON”T SMOKE, they need to fund their own pensions, and that 20 or 25 years and out is no longer a good sound retirement program…it has to be like 30 for Full pensions….25 for half….for them not to go broke and demand more from taxpayers.
———————
Local governments in growing areas can defer costs to the future through retiree benefits. Lots of new hires paying in to the pensions, lots of new taxpayers, but relatively few retirees collecting health and pension benefits.
———————————–
Wow.
Just WOW.
I don’t think that anybody - even on this bearish housing blog - could have predicted the “Siren songs” from the buliders like we are hearing in a desperate effort to offload the glut.
Those sheople that bought recently in those neighborhoods are SCREWED.
Just WOW:)
This is going to get BETTER. Wait until summer when the effects of tightening credit take hold, the selling season is all but over and the builders are hurting even more.
My bet is that by next winter the builders will be dumping new housing at construction cost and writing off the land. Either that, or their creditors will be doing so.
More Receptive To A Deal Than You Would Imagine
Kinda like the hot cheerleader queen bee, now a divorced single mom, at the 20 reunion….
Ha ha - excellent metaphor!
made me LOL. Maybe some friends I knew?
“SkyPoint, the $80-million 32-story tower with 381 condos, is the biggest residential high-rise in downtown’s history. Its future residents will pioneer a way of life in a downtown known for its office towers, parking lots and deserted after-hours streets.
“‘Downtown is very transitional,’ Neale said. ‘Sometimes it’s pretty vacant. But with all the things that are projected to come, I just see it getting better and better.’
“Will this experiment work?
“SkyPoint’s developers are betting it will.
“Novare Group, an Atlanta development company, and Intown Group, a local firm, are doubling down on an acre lot across from SkyPoint. There, they recently started building Element, a 34-story condo tower along Franklin Street.”
On Thursday, they will seek zoning approval for another tower on Ashley Drive. This one would be called Twelve, part- boutique hotel, part-condo. As proposed, it would be the tallest condo high-rise yet at 47 stories.”
I think this is all a PR ploy to make potential buyers THINK downtown Tampa is up-and-coming. I don’t believe for one second the developers have the funds to build either tower, but are trolling for suckers. “Element” is just a pile of dirt with cranes that periodically move this here and that there (”doubling-down”), but nothing else. I bet it’s suddenly cancelled for unexplained reasons. As for “Twelve,”
they need to finish the line “Twleve Months of Regret, Every Year of Your Life.” The developer’s are all hype, as usual; the same stuff we get from Trump with regard to his non-existent tower.
Monday at the builders meetings:
Make sure you tell the public everything is fine and dandy, the empty homes you see are not a sign of trouble but a corrrection that will pan out soon? We may have to raise prices in the future so buy now, don’t worry about what you here in the news that is the other builder who is having problems not us.
If you buy today we can even throw in a washer-dryer but that is it we got real value here compared to the other tracks? Now go out there and snow the buyers heck they fell for your story when we put a 50% increase and lot premiums on those barns we built. The public will digest anything gang so go get them, tell them everything is wine and roses?
Last fall, I was talking to one of the builder/developers foreman, and he told me a house they had been rushing on to finish, the buyer got cold feet and backed out, loosing his $30,000 deposit….
The house is finished, and sitting there on the street with about 10 other ones, and down the adjacent street, about 30 houses are left unfinished, in various stages of construction….The ‘foreman’ is now on differed ‘employment’, collecting his company’s finge benefits of unemployement …
Topic suggestion:
How many people know someone currently laid off/out of work?
I’m not talking “friend of a friend,” but a relative or friend. (By “friend”, someone you socialize at least once a month.)
Me? Only one plus one guy who hasn’t had a career job for 15 years (so he doesn’t exactly count, but he’s still a friend). Everyone else?
Got popcorn?
Neil
My 81 year old mother relates that busted boomer gents are moving back home with mommy in droves, in her neck of the woods, in el lay.
Not too many busted boomer women coming back, she said.
Interested…
I wonder why the gender difference? Good divorce lawyers?
For its known that women speculated in this bubble too… But a woman is more likely to get a room mate than an older guy… So thus they can hold off longer.
Just when I thought I was going to get bored on the bubble blogs, it gets interesting again.
To think… April and May are the big months for layoffs.
Got popcorn?
Neil
I think it’s a heck of a lot easier for a failed man to go back to mommy, (at my mom’s age, there aren’t a lot of husbands left)
than a failed woman…
Most women I know have pretty bad relationships with their mothers. They’re happy to visit, but even happier to leave. It’s a lot easier to share an apartment with someone than it is to move back in w/Mom.
Of course, of the several people I know who have become part or full-time caregivers to elderly parents, those have all been women who didn’t need the free rent, but felt the obligation to help.
My wife and I have many people we now who got fired in the recent subprime shakeup in Tampa. She works for Wells Fargo Finance. We knew people from Fremont, Acredited, New Century, etc. We warned them to stay at WF and they just wanted more money. They all bought huge houses while we went small and within our budget. I am still trying to get some more info. Quick question for those in the know. My wife and I need a rental. We found a 1730SQFT 2 yr old townhome 3 miles from each of our jobs. Is 1300 a fai r price to pay or should I press him lower? Thanks Ben for saving our bacon.
Check out the construction first. A lot of the newer things are particle board, or concrete block on one floor with particle board on the second, with stucco sprayed over, and not the best places to be in a hurricane.
My uncle was just laid off last week. He is a landscaper for a builder (can’t remember which one) in No. VA. He is 61.5 years old so his employment outlook is not good. He was only planning to work another year then retire. Luckily my Aunt still works (for the school district) so they still have medical benefits. One of my best friends little brothers was laid off from a construction job in Jacksonville, FL. He’s 23, single and no kids so he moved back in w/his parents and decided to go back to college.
My friends are too old to be laid off, but my FB friend whose son co-signed her toxic loan last year announced yesterday that said 40-ish son has been laid off (from high tech firm). Ooops.
A friend of mine just got laid off from another job. 2nd or 3rd layoff in a year for her. (Small companies going under.) I also know a few people laid off (from different jobs) the week before X-mas. Ouch. More friends described their jobs as bullet proof a year ago. This year they hope to survive more rounds of layoffs. Unfortunately, this year they are doing 3X the work for the same pay. Finding a new job isn’t as easy as they thought it was. Sentiment is sure changing around SoCal.
I was laid off last year. Probably one of the best things to ever happen to me. Spent a few months traveling the world; worked on a lot of my own ideas that I’d always wanted to play with.
Our only debt is student loans with interest rates so low we earn money by paying the minimum (and that’s before the tax deductions!) and our lease was ending so… $50/month for a storage unit and… We lived out of pensions, hotels, hostels, crashed at some friends and family in Europe for a couple days, etc.
My wife started working already and I’ve finished up some projects so I’m just now getting back into the hunt. Lots and lots of responses and interviews (had one already today and another a little later). Software is in high demand here, people getting desperate to fix the outsourcing disasters. Plus, Chicago has been #1 or #2 in the US for corporate relocations every year for the past 5 years. Not sure where they all came from, but it doesn’t appear that everyone came along for the ride.
There’s a guy that picks up his children in the same school as us…got laid off from New Venture Gear which supplies auto parts to the industry.
Another company in town suppports the auto industry but they just had a hiring binge last fall….go figure.
As far as immediate friends, I have some that are fearful but not yet laid off…medical researcher who is in fear of NY’s hospital re-org….also another who works for Pfizer who won’t find out till end of year. Then there’s the guy in insurance who has already survived one buyout and major lay-off but has been nervous about his position going on 3 years now.
My h’s company is privately owned but supports our infrastructure. I’m hoping that will offer us some protection as the fun begins.
All the Mexican’s working on our development [maybe 100+], are all gone..”"DISAPPEARED”" into the night…Maybe >50 houses sitting unfinished….just one guy [former foreman], now goes around and tidy’s up!!!! Nobody under him???
I think they all just turned up here in Colorado Springs. Please come and get them. Now, if you don’t mind.
Need an update on the central Florida market. (Orange, Osceola)
With both feet on the ground here in neighboring Polk County I can tell you it SUCKS…..MANY THOUSANDS OF HOMES ARE FOR SALE…..Many a stuck flipper is starting to feel the pain….with property and income taxes coming due along with 2004 vintage ARM resets you will soon hear the cries of agony from Flipper Hell.
Only a Total Fool would consider buying right now. We are at the beginning of the Florida Real Estate Collapse II….the first one being in 1926.
Keep your powder dry and guard your money. Real estate down here is now for the ignorant, unwashed masses….Greater Fools; if you will.
Wait till prices drop around 40-50% on some properties. You will be rewarded for your patience !
Flippers are seen with one cell phone per ear (yelling at the agent why they haven’t had a offer and telling the little women in the other ear we are not going to go broke) as they walk their weed infested property with no takers sight?
Thanks. We aren’t even thinking of buying for at least a couple years until we see how things shake out. May want to rent in Florida at least half the year. How are the rents? We’re in a good position to wait it out, because our house In Ohio will be paid for in August. This area is going to go down some, but we didn’t inflate like Florida so we may not fall as far, when we go to sell.
Rents are plentiful and many homes are now renting for less than a reasonable mortgage would be ( based on the inflated prices )
You are in “single-family-home-renter-heaven” down here. Some condos are going cheap on rent too; but not as much. Just be careful that your greedy landlord doesn’t bail with foreclosure in the middle of your lease….you could be left stranded with your furniture on the curb when the repo mnan unexpectedly shows up.. It’s already happening and I heard a similar tale here at work from a SFH renter in Kissimmee the other day…
The crunch for rentals is in apts and affordable condos. Many people are seeing the light and sitting this one out on the rental sidelines. I know that I am. In fact, I am now doing “Flipper Toy Buying” with my hard earned cash; as many watercraft, motorcycles, big trucks, etc. are now being offered up to the Mortgage Gods at sacrifical prices as a futile offering to avoid the demons of foreclosure.
Florida is fixin’ to hurt REAL BAD. The pain is beginning now, and will probably start to really take off this summer.
“ I am now doing “Flipper Toy Buying” with my hard earned cash; as many watercraft, motorcycles, big trucks, etc. are now being offered up to the Mortgage Gods at sacrifical prices as a futile offering to avoid the demons of foreclosure. ”
I’m amused and shocked at the number of lifted trucks currently on the market. My fiancee and I laugh at them as they are now parked, during the weekend, along the major streets with big “For Sale” signs chaulked on the rear window.
Funny… I never see any lookers. (Excluding teenage kids.)
Les Pendens, pain this summer? Oh yea… and fall, and winter… and spring of 2008… and…
This has only begun. The Willy E Coyote’s are starting to look down.
Got popcorn?
Neil
“many homes are now renting for less than a reasonable mortgage would be”
I am not criticizing you, Les Pendens, but this assertion is now true in ALL parts of the US, and has been for a year or more.
My wife and I recently went rental SHF shopping. We’re on month-to-month now, and have the time to shop at our leisure…and time to see how low landlords will go.
We went to see one home - 4 blocks from the intercoastal - that was asking $2600 (or something like that). I said to the landlord that we wouldn’t pay more than $1300, whereupon she froze. We left. Just yesterday she called back offering the place to us for $1200. We refused.
Imploding….tanking….smoking hole….cricket fever….void….black hole….snakebit….crashing….other than that, no problem.
Did you ever see that one movie about the really big boat that hits the iceberg?
The one that teaches you that loafers/”wanna be artists” are the prefered lay of hot wives of rich men?
I think that the other lesson from the movie is it wasn’t their fault they didn’t get into a life boat… yea… that right.
Got popcorn?
Neil
I resent that comment
Regards,
Loafer
So hot wives of rich men aren’t your type?
Got popcorn?
Neil
Here’s the current inventory situation…
http://www.mfrmls.com/Statistics.php
Here we go. Insanity….
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aqV3ONGuS38U&refer=home
Lower those rates! Please. I want cheap housing AND cheap interest rates!
Bring on the Japanese-style bust. Fine with me.
Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan roiled markets last month by predicting a one-in-three chance of a U.S. recession this year and said on March 15 that he expects the fallout from subprime-mortgage defaults to spread to other parts of the economy, especially if home prices decline.
Where’s he living at? Wonderland. “Especially if home prices fall”. I’m not sure of anywhere they’re not falling, except where sellers are too blind, stupid and greedy to see what’s coming.
I have a question?
If the FEDs would lower rates while China, Japan and EU continue to hold the line or raise rates what affect will that have on the US debt and the dollar?
Dollar loses value if US lowers rates and other don’t (simple) - but it’s not always simple to time your attempts to take advantage of these things
This will not happen
If the US lowers, the others will drop rates lower than Eminem’s sagging pants. It will be a race to the bottom again.
Besides, if the US lowers, it means that our economy is faltering, which will negatively impact Japan and Europe, which will thus cause them to drop too.
That said, we’re not dropping rates anytime soon. Inflation indicators are all through the roof. We need to keep our rates higher than europe/japan to entice foreigners et. al. to buy our ill-fated debt.
Maybe we can drop rates in a few months once the damage from housing has shown its hand depressing our “core” inflation numbers… by then Europe/Japan will be dropping too though.
China has announced that it is raising rates. Since the dollar is already seriously overvalued, this may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
“Are you thinking about buying an upscale, urban condo? Don’t settle for some chump dump in downtown Orlando. Not when you can move down the road to Tampa and live like The Donald.”
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be the Donald…
The Shadow Knows
On a related note: if your condo has anything to do with The Donald, duck!
Yeah, because getting into a Mickey Mouse loan would be Goofy.
So, Mickey Mouse is in divorce court. The judge turns to him and says: “Mickey, why are you claiming that Minnie is insane? You didn’t list that as grounds for your divorce?”
And Mickey says “I didn’t say Minnie was insane. I said she was f****ing Goofy”
“‘Downtown is very transitional,’ Bobby Neale said. ‘Sometimes it’s pretty vacant. But with all the things that are projected to come, I just see it getting better and better.’”
Micky D’s, Burger King, KFC ……. nothing like high paying jobs. Beer Me !!
On the 32nd floor, construction debris covers the floors of the penthouse suites. Dust swirls in the air. Wires dangle from the ceiling.”
At least the FBs will have a convenient way to hang themselves.