March 27, 2007

Bits Bucket And Craigslist Finds For March 27, 2007

Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.




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206 Comments »

Comment by Michael Fink
2007-03-27 04:47:48

CNBC reports a possible bailout in Ohio for buyers in over their head with housing.

Oh please no. This will extend the correction for 2X as long as it normally would have played out, or will artificilly inflate home prices indefinately (until inflation eats the gains in 10 years).

I hope this does not start a trend.

Comment by Fucharist
2007-03-27 04:49:38

Only if the people are gullible enough to accept it.

 
Comment by JA
2007-03-27 05:00:36

Massachusetts slowing the process…

“Galvin to urge curbs on seizure of homes”
He says lenders should need judge’s OK amid a surge in foreclosures
By Kimberly Blanton, Globe Staff | March 27, 2007

With record numbers of Massachusetts homeowners facing foreclosures, Secretary of State William F. Galvin today will urge the Legislature to require mortgage lenders to get permission from local judges before they seize the homes of delinquent borrowers.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/03/27/galvin_to_urge_curbs_on_seizure_of_homes/

Comment by Graspeer
2007-03-27 05:11:09

Which will just mean that lenders who are already running scared (as they should be) will be less likely to give out new loans if they can’t repo the ones that are not paying their mortgages. So the government will delay people losing homes and increase the number who can’t buy homes.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:05:14

By exposing lenders’ feet to a bucket of ice water, the government will tank the price of homes facing foreclosures. This will make it all the more difficult for underwater owners to part company with their unruly alligators.

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2007-03-27 06:46:31

And all these stories will further make the public realize it is GAME OVER. Any greater fool will see prices should be much lower with all the hot air from politicos about foreclosures in the main stream media.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 07:03:12

Brother, could you spare a Krugerrand?

 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2007-03-27 05:20:02

Yes, this will cause a definite balls-up. Maybe we shouldn’t be so against government attempts at intervention. Makes it more of a show.

Comment by josemanolo7
2007-03-27 08:58:32

“Makes it more of a show.”
which is precisie what it is.

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Comment by Blackbox
2007-03-27 06:23:50

Relax, it will just incourage short sales!
Prices will drop faster if the GFs can sell at what they an get in this market. Let the systems take over all it wants. Has it ever made it better in the micro world? I don’t think so…..
$500M is nothing! Drop in the bucket, and it’s a proposal in the house of reps. Please, I don’t think anything has ever left the house without it being modified to the Nth degree. It has to be shaped to pass the Senate, not the radical, stupid, and self serving members of the house……..

 
Comment by Tulkinghorn
2007-03-27 07:16:02

Back in the early 90s Mass had a statutory freeze on foreclosures of condominiums - lasted the better part of a year. Condos in most of the state did not recover (after factoring inflation) for over 10 years.

 
 
Comment by Graspeer
2007-03-27 05:13:47

“or will artificilly inflate home prices indefinately “

Ohio must want to keep prices high so they can keep property taxes high. So all the homeowners who want to keep their homes and do pay their bills will end up paying more, but isn’t this always the case, the prudent pay and the spendthrifts get away with things.

Comment by johnfromia
2007-03-27 05:36:14

This is how the Japanese depression got started. The banks kept the bad and nonperforming loans on the books and didn’t foreclose, and the country went into a deflationary depression that took 10-15 years for them to come out of (assuming the nascent recovery is for real). This is not the way to go.

As much as the S&L crisis, bailout, and selloff of REO’s around 1990 sucked, it allowed the US to avoid a similar fate. Much better to recognize reality, take the hit, and move on. And the gov’t isn’t on the hook for subprime loans not guaranteed by GNMA, FNMA and FHLMC unlike the S&L’s that were backed by insured deposits. Plus that way affordability comes sooner.

Comment by Peter T
2007-03-27 05:51:29

> And the gov’t isn’t on the hook for subprime loans not guaranteed by GNMA, FNMA and FHLMC unlike the S&L’s that were backed by insured deposits.

It seems that government tries to get on the hook by guaranteeing mortgages to bail out FBs.

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Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:50:07

“(assuming the nascent recovery is for real)”

And a big assumption it is, given the U.S. housing situation. Remember, our home equity gains were used to fund lots of electronic goods purchases from Japan over the past decade.

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Comment by CincyDad
2007-03-27 06:32:12

“Ohio must want to keep prices high so they can keep property taxes high.”

About Ohio property taxes…. Property taxes are based on an assessed value that is recalculated every 3 years, and not in-between. The assessed value is NOT MARKET VALUE in Ohio, but based on a formula using # bedrooms, # baths, garage, pool, other amenities.

Ohio has its own version of Proposition 13 in that the annual property tax rate is a fixed percent of the assessed value. That percent is fixed (around 1%) unless voters approve a change. Local governments cannot change the percent. Since tax appraisal is done every 3 years, the revenue collected is pretty constant for those 3 years.

My house was just reassessed, and my value was actually lowered! It is now assessed at a lower price than it was 3 years ago, so my poperty taxes just dropeed $100/yr. (My old house was assessed higher, so the new owners’ taxes went up).

Appraised value does not figure (directly at least) into the tax assessed value of property in Ohio.

Comment by HelloKitty
2007-03-27 09:46:13

Do people in OH pay 15,000 more per year in property tax than thier neighbor? That is typical in CA. P13= welfare for older established people who have tons of home equity. And many of these people complain about illegals using government resources - prop 13 households only pay a fraction of the property tax anyway.

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Comment by CincyDad
2007-03-27 10:01:39

No. All residential property in a given area is re-assessed together every 3 years, and they tend to be consistant between houses. No big differences between neighbors with similar houses.

This isn’t quite like Prop 13 in that your taxes are basically frozen at the time you buy. But it is a case where the rate of taxation cannot be changed except by popular vote (and we vote increases quite often for schools). The county controls the assessed value, but we citizens control the rate on those assessed values. And the county’s ability to set the assessed value is not wide open either.

 
Comment by CA renter
2007-03-28 02:11:02

P13= welfare for older established people who have tons of home equity. And many of these people complain about illegals using government resources - prop 13 households only pay a fraction of the property tax anyway.
——————-
Ack, NO!!!!

Prop 13 is the best thing that could have happened to CA residents. The way Prop 13 works, homeowners are able to calculate, upfront, what their expenses will be. That is a fantastically GOOD thing!

CA property values are extremely volatile, and residents should not have to pay taxes based on what speculators are willing to pay for houses.

If you don’t like the prop taxes, DON’T BUY!!! If enough buyers got some sense into their heads and realized that *they* are they ones who determine pricing (and, therefore, prop tax levels), prices would come down to affordable PITI levels.

The increased costs in CA are largely due to illegal immigration and legal migration (foreign and domestic). Native Californians are sick and tired of footing the bill for everyone who wants to come here and destroy the state.

Most of the collected property tax revenue goes to fund the school districts. The elderly (those who pay lower taxes) have already paid to put their children through school. Time for the newbies to pay their own way.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Brian in Chicago
2007-03-27 05:50:36

The bit that I saw about the Ohio bailout is that the money will be raised via taxable municipal bonds. If I’m reading that correctly, who exactly would buy them? Their taxable, which eliminates many of the advantages of municipal bonds.

Is Ohio planning to pay them back via:
1) Property taxes that wouldn’t have been collected if the property was left vacant?
2) The extra property taxes collected thanks to artificially higher property values?

The answer is probably both; then again it could be a massive boondoggle in the making.

Comment by Brian in Chicago
2007-03-27 05:51:29

Sorry, too early in the morning for proper grammar. How embarrassing!

 
Comment by droog
2007-03-27 07:51:40

Do you think that Ohio’s public pension plans will buy them? That way, taxpayers will have to bail out the pension plans soon after bailing out the FBs.

 
 
Comment by motepug
2007-03-27 07:24:07

The fact of the matter is that individual states can’t bail out anybody, without laying off police and school teachers, eventually. When they issue bonds for a bailout, they are still constrained in the long term by taxes they collect to pay the bonds back. The states can’t print money, at least yet.

On the other hand, the Federal govt can do whatever it pleases and just print up/create more money to bail out the banks, JPM, GS, etc, without raising taxes. And that’s exactly what they are going to do, no doubt about it, especially since the Fed govt is essentially bankrupt.

And, ultimately, you and I are going to pay for it, with both higher taxes in the future, and a continued debasement of little green rectangles of paper. Until the whole sorry mess collapses on itself.

 
Comment by Troy
2007-03-27 08:13:31

one thing they could do would be to spread the 1099-gain on short selling over say 10 years. That kinda seems fair actually, since IMO taxing a borrower NOW who fails to repay FUTURE payments is silly.

Comment by MazNJ
2007-03-27 09:34:27

It’s not the payments but the cap gain in that case. I’m basically long house short bond (mortgage), and cover my short for less than it’s original value so I have a gain. By that nature I also have a cap gain loss on the house but I don’t believe the government permits individuals to recognize a cap gain loss on a principal residence and even if so, I believe shorts are always recognized as short term while the house, if held for 2 years, would be a LT… while permitting individuals to recognize the two to offset each other would help as long as you haven’t refinanced or taken out a HELOC or something (the two would negate each other), those would “borrowed” against “equity” would still recognize a full loss in that case. Still, a change to permit that would at least help some of the “less” culpable in this mess, presuming such was limited to primary home purchase and was only permitted once every few years like the cap gain exclusion.

 
Comment by But_Im_Not_Dead_Yet
2007-03-27 16:03:20

I would be in favor of eliminating the tax on the 1099 gain for short sales. Maybe I haven’t thought this through completely, but it seems rather silly for the IRS to tax a short sale, while at the same time they do NOT tax capital gains on houses where people sell and make a profit.

It almost seems like double jeopardy. You have the humiliation of losing your house because it went down in value (or you just couldn’t make the payments). Then the additional humiliation of having to come up with 10’s of thousands of dollars to settle up with the tax man over this fictitious “gain” that you supposedly had (on the short sale).

This would seem like a “humane” form of a bailout plan, to me. Other thoughts?

Comment by CA renter
2007-03-28 02:17:44

You have to separate the “gift” from the house. Erase the thought of a house completely from your mind, because that is not the issue.

The issue is debt forgiveness. If you borrow money, and don’t pay it back, you have, in essence, gained the amount of that debt. Consider it a gift which is subject to a gift tax.

There is no reason on God’s green earth why FBs should not be taxed on this. They should get down on their knees and thank the lenders for letting them off so easily.

Lender’s loss has to be balanced against a gain somewhere else. That gain went to the FB. That’s why they need to be taxed on it.

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Comment by Crashwatcher
2007-03-27 21:42:16

Did anyone catch Harry Dinham - President of the Nation Association of Mortgage Brokers on C-SPAN2. He seems as lost about what is going on as Ken Lay during Enron. There should be a post on this guy.

 
 
Comment by kckid
2007-03-27 04:50:26

http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=16&issue=20070326

Federal Bailout in the works.

House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank, D-Mass., has proposed a bipartisan bill to create a tough new overseer. But he wants something in return.

A key part of Frank’s bill is “an affordable housing fund” to be financed by the GSEs. The estimated $500 million fund would make block grants to states for low-income housing.

Comment by Fucharist
2007-03-27 04:53:09

They want to take it out of your pocket and pay for someone else’s mistake.

 
Comment by Lou Minatti
2007-03-27 05:21:53

There will be plenty of cheap housing within 2-3 years, it just won’t be easy to borrow the money for most people.

Comment by chilidoggg
2007-03-27 05:23:48

what was the line from the Great Depression? Steak was just a dollar - but I didn’t have a dollar!

Comment by passthebubbly
2007-03-27 05:31:18

Houses were free, but nobody could afford free

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Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-03-27 05:40:05

“The estimated $500 million fund would make block grants to states for low-income housing.”

If it is a stealth bailout, it is not enough money to bailout all the FBs. Ohio is bailing out FBs at a cost of 100 million per 1,000. At that rate, 500 million will bail only 5,000 FBs in lower cost Ohio like communities. Furthermore, 500 million will not help as many FBs in high cost places like CA, AZ, and FL.

Comment by WT Economist
2007-03-27 06:08:29

Could be enough to bail out all the victims, however, given how many investors, flippers and fraudsters, and living largers on HELOCs there were. What are the odds of the government correctly idenifying the victims, as opposed to those who know how to work the system?

Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:21:41

“What are the odds of the government correctly idenifying the victims, as opposed to those who know how to work the system?”

That’s the rub. For instance, rent controlled apartments in San Francisco, originally intended to help low income folks cope with the high cost of living, often are occupied by millionaires.

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Comment by nhz
2007-03-27 07:04:00

CA is starting to sound more like the Netherlands every day…

just in case you mention overbuilding: my city is planning to add 10% more homes in the next five years, while almost all experts are expecting a declining population.
I’m guess those homes are going to be sold with huge government subsidies to make them ‘affordable’, otherwise I would be quite happy with the obvious overbuilding in an extremely extended housing market.

 
Comment by Bill in Phoenix
2007-03-27 07:08:22

I’ll be happy to take three of those new homes in the Netherlands. I understand the Netherlands is a very social liberal society, and I am an extreme social liberal!

 
Comment by CA renter
2007-03-28 02:20:25

I understand the Netherlands is a very social liberal society, and I am an extreme social liberal!
————————–
Ummm, you’re joking…right, Bill?

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 06:23:40

All the king’s horse and all the kings men…

Will be hard pressed to get the real estate market going again.

Stick a fork in it.

This will be the weekend.

AMF

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Comment by But_Im_Not_Dead_Yet
2007-03-27 16:07:42

aladinsane,
what makes you think “this weekend” will be the one to make it all come tumbling down? Curious as to your thoughts.

My thinking is: this will be drawn out for several more months before reality completely sets in. It is nice, however, to see some of the MSM picking up on this thing with gusto (ABC evening news, for instance)….

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 18:08:27

My wife and I were talking about how shit tends to roll downhill, rather quickly…

A better parable would be the melting of Greenland, which is happening at a ever quickening pace, melting by many measures quicker than scientists had estimated, just a few years ago.

Or,

As I see it, if the collapse were to happen this Monday, (ceremonial April Fools Day, as the bonafide one is on Sunday)
it’s not as if we would be shocked, nor would we be surprised if it happened 3 months from now. It’s baked in.

These computers we all know and love?

They’ll spit out what’s really happening, as things start to plunge.

Faked sales will be much harder to get through the system, as there will be so few sales, a moot point, sorta

As crazy as it was going up, orderly to a point, but not really.
People making money hand over fist, who cares if you leave a few drippings in the way of Dollars on the table, There’s plenty for everybody~

It’s chaos on the downside and everybody’s losing money, all the time. We can prolong the patient, or stick a Ted’s of Beverly Hills serated steak knife into the belly of the beast
and be done with it.

Who’s with me?

 
 
Comment by Patricia
2007-03-27 10:04:46

Just look at the Katrina debacle, people getting money who didn’t even live in New Orleans, seems nobody’s minding the store…

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Comment by Hoz
2007-03-27 06:31:16

The obvious answer is that some “Casey” gets bailed out as well as the intended. Unfortunately, the 500mm fund is sufficient to bail out financial institutions.

 
 
Comment by spike66
2007-03-27 06:37:02

“block grants to states for low-income housing.”

Well this is silly. The country is awash in vacant Mcmansions and condos soon to be section 8 housing and squatters havens. Doesn’t get more affordable than that.

Comment by Bill in Phoenix
2007-03-27 11:31:09

The greedy buyers-turned F***ed Buyers will be paraded in front of the 2008 Democrat Convention as victims of GWB. That new kind of victim, along with the other usual irresponsibles the party of Will Not (not Have not) will parade in front of us. I will shed a tear.

 
 
Comment by nhz
2007-03-27 07:00:18

look what is happening in Europe: we already have many variations of that here. Even the relatively small Netherlands already spends several billion every year in housing subsidies (starter subsidies, special funds for elderly people who want to live beyond their means, etc). Plus an additional 10 billion or so on HMD. Plus a Fannie/Freddie style free mortgage insurance plan for everyone without money of their own (they can only win in the housing pyramid game). And I’m sure more of this is coming as soon as homeprices stop appreciating. Buyers are entitled to an ever appreciating home, isn’t it? And of course they NEED an ever appreciating home too, to make ends meet. So Dutch politicians make sure these people (the majority vote) get what they want, and the general taxpayer (effectively those not owning mortgaged homes) gets the bill.

Comment by But_Im_Not_Dead_Yet
2007-03-27 16:13:34

nhz,
you frequently mention “HMD”, I assume this is “Home Mortgage Deduction”, like it is a unique part of the problem in Europe. Are you aware that in the US we have a home mortgage deduction as well? You can deduct the interest on a home mortgage (primary residence only) from your federal tax return, as well as all state tax returns I believe.

I am not aware if there is any upper limit on the amount of mortgage interest you can deduct. The problem comes in (for those with high incomes) that eventually the mortgage interest deduction becomes “moot” (becomes meaningless) due to something called Alternative Minimum Tax, often referred to as AMT.

Anyway, I was just curious as to how the HMD works in the Netherlands. Thanks…

Comment by CA renter
2007-03-28 02:25:29

Don’t know if nhz will see this & reply, so I’ll give it a go (based on what he’s posted here in the past).

The HMD in the Netherlands can run up to 50%, IIRC, and I don’t think it’s capped (or it’s too high to matter).

Hopefully nhz will get in here and correct me, but just in case he isn’t able to…

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Comment by housing_apocalypse_now
2007-03-27 08:41:22

A key part of Frank’s bill is “an affordable housing fund” to be financed by the GSEs.

But that’s what the GSE’s ALREADY ARE!!! They were created to make housing more affordable and allow more people access to mortgages IN THE FIRST PLACE! So did they do their job too well, or not well enough?

h_a_n aka passthebubbly

 
 
Comment by johnfromia
2007-03-27 04:54:26

Check out the honesty from the hedge fund and private equity crowd. They know the debt bubble is a house of cards but they can’t pry themselves away from the party until it’s clear everyone else is about to leave. I doubt they’ll all get out the door at the same time, but then it’s the fools who have entrusted their capital to them that will pay the price with no clawbacks of the obscene bonuses they have received. Is this a great country or what? I’m generally to the right of center on economic issues, but this is a situation that is just begging for regulation to keep the dealers from skimming the take at the casino. It’s the closest thing to legalized theft going. And there is no grownup watching the till and keeping things from getting out of hand. This has to end badly.

Sketchy Loans Abound
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117495177692049687.html?mod=home_whats_news_us

Comment by Fucharist
2007-03-27 04:58:34

Do you think those people care if you lose money? There are plenty of suckers out their to take your place.

 
Comment by txchick57
2007-03-27 05:39:10

Been saying that for some time now. Subprime isn’t going away, it’s just being reordered from the weak hands to the stronger. That’s why I don’t get the “short CFC” crowd. CFC isn’t going belly up. It will probably emerge as a big winner in all this.

Comment by johnfromia
2007-03-27 05:54:42

“CFC isn’t going belly up. It will probably emerge as a big winner in all this.”
Interesting, txchick. If you don’t mind me asking, what’s their cash flow situation look like with all of the accrued option arm interest they haven’t received but have included in earnings?

 
Comment by Bad Andy
2007-03-27 05:58:58

“Subprime isn’t going away”

Finally we agree! Subprime has been a part of the picture since the 90’s. It used to be if your credit score was screwed, you’d need to put at least 10% down and pay a rate in the high 9’s or low 10’s at a time where a prime loan was in the mid to upper 5’s. After you showed responsibility for a year or two you could refi into one of those loans in the upper 5’s. At that point you’re very little risk. You showed ability to pay at a much higher rate AND LTV is now 85% at worst.

Comment by flatffplan
2007-03-27 06:18:04

higher rates don’t secure future payments, just attracts gf’s
what was the down payment in the 30’s ?

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Comment by PDXrenter
2007-03-27 06:41:48

From that article in WSJ:

Consider the idea of “covenant lite,” the term the Street has attached to a new kind of debt, which sounds like a new flavor of ice cream. These are bank loans that subject borrowers to few of the usual performance requirements that have been standard in the past. A borrower’s earnings might falter or receivables balloon, and a lender’s only recourse is a ponderous shrug.

Debt buyers have taken on $41 billion of such ‘lite’ loans during 2007, a figure greater than the last 10 years combined, says Standard & Poor’s. Covenant lite represents 37% of institutional loans written this year, compared with just 1% in 2005.

Where have we seen this before? Question is, HOW MUCH more crazy is it going to get before the wheels come off?

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Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:07:40

Many paleontologists will argue that dinosaurs never went away, either.

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/diapsids/avians.html

Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:09:32

P.S. Subprime (and other forms of suicide lending) may turn out to be a “recurrent” form of dinosaur. I have read a number of times that interest-only loans were the most prevalent type in the Roaring 20’s, but gave way to fixed-rate during the 1930s Depression.

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Comment by Bad Andy
2007-03-27 06:19:32

interest-only loans were great tools for those who used them properly. In a market where conservative investments were yielding 11% or more, why wouldn’t you leverage interest-only when the loan is at 6%?

Problem is most people didn’t invest the rest. They bought as much as they could based on the i/o or worse, the neg am payment.

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:24:31

“…for those who used them properly.”

Which gets back to the reason that such loans are best suited to financially sophisticated owners with bank, not people who need a translator to understand the loan papers they are being goaded into signing.

 
Comment by Bad Andy
2007-03-27 06:26:12

“…not people who need a translator to understand the loan papers they are being goaded into signing.”

It doesn’t take an 8th grade education to know that if you earn $30K per year, you can’t afford to buy a $500K home.

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:37:04

“It doesn’t take an 8th grade education…”

Unfortunately, a preponderance of home loans have recently been made to people who are NOT smarter than a 5th grader.

 
Comment by spike66
2007-03-27 06:42:28

“Unfortunately, a preponderance of home loans have recently been made to people who are NOT smarter than a 5th grader.”

Or to people who who find it useful to pretend Not to have the smarts of a fifth grader when their housing “investment” goes south.

 
Comment by Bad Andy
2007-03-27 07:03:49

“Unfortunately, a preponderance of home loans have recently been made to people who are NOT smarter than a 5th grader. ”

Not my problem. Those of us who ARE smarter than a 5th grader shouldn’t be punished for those who aren’t. Like I said, interest-only loans are great leverage in any market as long as you remember 2 things.

1) Additional money put to principal is not a bad thing.
2) If you don’t put additional money to principal, your payment WILL increase and your balance WILL NOT decrease.

A good friend of mine went on an interest-only fixed program with 5 years of interest only. By the time the i/o period was over, his payment dropped by $200. That’s what extra principal can do.

 
Comment by zeropointzero
2007-03-27 07:29:27

New Fox show: Are You Smarter Than a Typical FB?

 
Comment by Bad Andy
2007-03-27 07:47:51

“New Fox show: Are You Smarter Than a Typical FB? ”

I can win that one!!

 
Comment by StarveThe Agents
2007-03-27 08:24:25

“New Fox show: Are You Smarter Than a Typical FB? ”

Umm… if the gubmint has Its way… then no, you’re not.

You saved.

 
 
Comment by Lionel
2007-03-27 12:37:47

This is the conjecture my 4-year-old girl loves talking about, lecturing adults that dinosaurs are, in fact, not dead, just birds.

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Comment by dude
2007-03-27 06:07:51

But they will continue to show some decent volatility, and volatility is where traders make money.
I’m short CFC @ 36.80

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:41:35

txchick — You didn’t just buy a bunch of CFC shares, did you? Because we are going to start suspecting you are trying to manipulate the price if you keep making statements like “CFC did great when credit standards were nonexistent, and now that standards are tightening like a noose around their neck, they will still do great.”

Comment by txchick57
2007-03-27 06:46:15

oh please. As if I could manipulate the price of a NYSE stock that trades millions of shares a day.

No, I don’t have it at the moment. I did and got stopped out. Right now, 50% short indices and not much else.

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Comment by PDXrenter
2007-03-27 06:45:50

CFC isn’t going belly up. It will probably emerge as a big winner in all this.

Possibly, but no way it’ll survive without some deep gashes. REOs on its book are rising very rapidly - check Dimitris’s site. Revenue is collapsing.

Comment by txchick57
2007-03-27 06:48:29

Won’t argue with the notion that there is some downside yet but it ain’t going to zero, unlike most of those other losers. You couldn’t give it away in 1994 when it was Countrywide Credit and I first got it, but it was a big winner.

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Comment by PDXrenter
2007-03-27 06:54:12

Fair enough. I agree there will be plenty of time to pick up winners on the cheap, but it is obviously not until we come out the other end of this cycle.

 
Comment by txchick57
2007-03-27 06:59:58

In other news, Ciena which I pointed out here a few days ago in the 25s and 24s is now 28+ and climbing.

 
 
 
Comment by davidcee
2007-03-27 07:45:06

HOMEBUILDERS stock going down 50% !!!
13 homebuilders, yesterday’s closing prices and the current price/book (PB) value.

Beazer (BZH) $32.32, 0.77x BV
Centex (CTX) $43.17, 1.05x BV
DR Horton (DHI) $22.79, 1.10x BV
Hovnanian (HOV) $27.34, 0.97x BV
KB Home (KBH) $45.99, 1.21x BV
Lennar (LEN) $44.54, 1.24x BV
MDC Holdings (MDC) $50.25, 1.05x BV
Meritage (MTH) $33.50, 0.87x BV
NVR (NVR) $712.66, 3.41x BV
Pulte (PHM) $27.25, 1.06x BV
Ryland (RYL) $45.60, 1.29x BV
Standard-Pacific (SPF) $22.34, 0.82x BV
Toll Brothers (TOL) $28.85, 1.28x BV

Several of those valuations look enticing, if you assume that buying the stocks at 1x book value is a good strategy. BUT
. In 1999 or 2000, the stocks bottomed at the following valuations.

Beazer 0.60x BV
Centex 0.76x BV
DR Horton 0.79x BV
Hovnanian 0.49x BV
KB Home 1.20x BV
Lennar 1.00x BV
MDC Holdings 0.70x BV
Meritage 0.51x BV
NVR 1.08x BV
Pulte 0.60x BV
Ryland 0.57x BV
Standard-Pacific 0.64x BV
Toll Brothers 0.94x BV
Average 0.76x BV
if you bought the stocks at 1x book value before the bottom in 1999/2000, you lost 25% of your investment.

If the stocks were to revisit their lows of the turn of the decade, how much would you lose if you bought them now?

Beazer -22%
Centex -28%
DR Horton -28%
Hovnanian -49%
KB Home -1%
Lennar -19%
MDC Holdings -33%
Meritage -41%
NVR -68%
Pulte -43%
Ryland -56%
Standard-Pacific -22%
Toll Brothers -26%
Average -33%

But this assumes that book value won’t change. Ivy Zelman estimates that there is another $6.5 billion or so in charges and write-offs coming. If those charges occurred today, another 15% of book value would be wiped out. What would PB for each stock be if the charge-offs were equally distributed across the group (an unrealistic assumption, for sure, but for simplicity’s sake) and what would be the downside using 1999/2000 lows?

Beazer 0.90x BV -34%
Centex 1.24x BV -39%
DR Horton 1.29x BV -39%
Hovnanian 1.14x BV -57%
KB Home 1.42x BV -16%
Lennar 1.46x BV -31%
MDC Holdings 1.24x BV -43%
Meritage 1.02x BV -50%
NVR 4.02x BV -73%
Pulte 1.25x BV -52%
Ryland 1.51x BV -62%
Standard-Pacific 0.96x BV -33%
Toll Brothers 1.50x BV -37%
Average 1.46x BV -44%

But why look at the lows from 7-8 years ago? The housing market today far more resembles 1990 than 2000, and my guess is that housing will eventually fall more than in 1990/1991. So what were the homebuilders trading at when they bottomed back then? Of the 13 homebuilders listed above, nine were publicly traded in 1990. Here are the low PB valuations of 1991/1992, and the losses from current levels if stocks traded to those levels after Ms. Zelman’s charges.

Centex 0.53x BV, -57%
Hovnanian 0.29x BV, -75%
KB Home 0.80x BV, -44%
Lennar 0.14x BV, -91%
MDC Holdings 0.22x BV, -82%
Pulte 0.50x BV, -60%
Ryland 0.57x BV, -62%
Standard-Pacific 0.48x BV, -50%
Toll Brothers 0.71x BV, -53%
Average 0.47x BV, -64%

 
Comment by BubbleWatcher
2007-03-27 17:09:56

That’s true. But it will go down from 30% of originations back to 3%, which will be good news for the CFC short crowd.

 
 
Comment by combotechie
2007-03-27 06:02:23

This is a really scary article. The hedges have lost their minds just as the real estate appraisers, lenders, brokers and FB’s lost their minds.
The hedges KNOW the deals they are doing are junk but , because their thinking is short term, they don’t care.

This is gonna end very, very badly.

 
Comment by jag
2007-03-27 06:53:59

You have to have a million dollar net worth to get into hedge funds. While that may not be the same as a million dollars 20 years ago, I don’t see any reason to regulate business agreements between a relatively wealthy person and the “advisors” they prefer to use.

Are many going to get hosed? I don’t think there’s much doubt about that. But someone who has the ability to build up a million in net worth should be able to recover. And if they can’t then I’d suggest there’s not much you can do about the eternal problem of “a fool and their money”.

If you want to gamble away your financial security whether it is in a particular market or gambling at blackjack, by all means, do it. Just don’t expect anyone to a) bail you out b) feel sorry for you.

Comment by johnfromia
2007-03-27 07:06:08

Insurance companies, pension funds, university endowments are all invested here, and joe sixpack’s money is thus at risk. Plus now with FIG public and Blackstone going public, the little guy’s who heretofore couldn’t invest in a hedge fund can now buy 10 shares from Etrade. The so-called smart money is now selling to the dumb money. Since the CDO machine that is the Investment bank/hedge fund/private equity triumvirate has now virtually supplanted the banking system as the economy’s primary source of credit, we all may well suffer from the mother of all credit crunches.

 
Comment by nhz
2007-03-27 07:09:08

some hedgefunds are run by pension funds, so they are really gambling with the capital of ordinary workers. The Dutch pension fund ABP, one of the biggest in the world, owns several hedge funds (with a BIG appetite for real estate and US mortgage debt).

 
 
 
Comment by Fucharist
2007-03-27 04:54:38

Very few people want to take responsibility for their actions. Let thy neighbor pay for my mistakes.

Comment by spike66
2007-03-27 06:44:58

Yeah, and let the govenment bail us all out.

 
 
Comment by geeah
2007-03-27 04:55:21

Someone yesterday was looking for the link to Ben’s interview in the OC Register… don’t think anyone replied with it:

http://blogs.ocregister.com/lansner/archives/2007/03/insider_qa_gets_o_1.html

Comment by WT Economist
2007-03-27 05:19:23

Money quote was from Ben, as this comment shows:

“It’s sad that this is one of the first “mainstream” piece on the housing bubble that has a quote about affordability in it. I am in a position where I should be able to buy a house if prices followed “normal” appreciation. What has happened over the past few years has me priced out of the market and being financially responsible I will not touch a mortgage that has to work magic in order for me to buy.”

The bubble is NOT an economic good, and the bust will not be an economic bad, in their entirety. But the bubble and bust will mean a net loss to the economy compared with what would have happened if it had never occured. The bubble created a misallocation of capital (too much into energy guzzling McMansions) and allowed a huge and unjust redistribution of wealth, some times from third parties (ie. pension funds, taxpayers), often with actual illegality involved.

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-03-27 05:00:38

March 27 (Bloomberg) — Lennar Corp., the largest U.S. homebuilder by revenue, said earnings plummeted 73 percent in the fiscal first-quarter as demand waned in the worst housing slump in more than a decade.

Revenue for the quarter plunged 14 percent to $2.79 billion from $3.24 billion as the number of homes delivered fell by 3.9 percent to 8,566. The average selling price dropped 7 percent to $303,000 as sales incentives more than tripled to $45,500 per home.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=adsLkS5Kr3mw&refer=home

Comment by WT Economist
2007-03-27 05:13:31

As I’ve said, if they have earnings, no matter how small, they aren’t doing bad. It’s a boom or bust industry.

Comment by davidcee
2007-03-27 08:02:20

“As I’ve said, if they have earnings, no matter how small, they aren’t doing bad. It’s a boom or bust industry.”
….Should I believe those “reported” earnings. The Enron accountants sure did a bang up job detailing the inner workings of that scam. Companies manipulate numbers until they are tilted in their favor. Let Crammer scream about numbers, I don’t think they are reliable.

 
 
Comment by chilidoggg
2007-03-27 05:20:22

Let me do the idiot math. Today these houses sold for 7% less than they did a year ago, so last year they sold for 326,000. This year the free car is 45k, last year it was no more than 15k. So a home worth 311,000 a year ago sells for 257,000, or 17% less.

Comment by JP
2007-03-27 05:37:26

I think your metric is the best yet. (best=accurate)
It includes items of similar value, not an obfuscatory median.

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-03-27 05:24:51

Is a rate cut already baked? Will housing demand lift and shares rally? Some are betting on a rate cut. From the WSJ:

By EMILY BARRETT
March 27, 2007; Page C6

A poor report on new-home sales in February sharpened bids for government bonds as investors put more money on the prospect of a rate cut in coming months.

The disappointing housing-market report was a boon for Treasury bulls, who have thrived recently on the view that the Federal Reserve will have to hasten toward a rate cut as the housing sector’s troubles deepen, threatening to infect the rest of the U.S. economy.

Futures markets illustrate the heightened expectations. Approaching the close, the June Eurodollars contract was pricing in a roughly 60% chance for the Fed to cut its target rate a quarter percentage point, to 5%, in the second quarter. This is up from about a 56% chance at Friday’s close.

In its last monetary-policy statement March 21, the central bank abandoned its previous explicit reference to the possible need for higher interest rates.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:17:34

Gold and oil traders are betting on a respiking of the punch bowl (aka rate cut), which would be inflationary. It is really easy for a Fed chairman to cut and run on a policy to stamp out rampant speculation. Since McChesney Martin, only Volcker has had the cojones to stay the course.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/03/26/afx3551493.html

Comment by Bill in Phoenix
2007-03-27 07:17:00

I just upped my percentage of precious metals in my net worth to 6.6 from around 5.8%. Bought a few ounces of gold yesterday. Those of you who are looking for a risk neutral way to use gold and government securities as hedges against each other should check out permanent portfolio:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=prpfx

I prefer physical ownership of bullion. The commission I pay is about 4%. Permanent Portfolio has an expense ratio of 1.35%. However when I buy T-bills, there is no commission. Same with savings bonds.

The nice thing about using precious metals and government securities as hedges is you keep up with inflation and holds value during deflation. If you are primarily interested in accumulating wealth and keeping your principle, there you go.

Comment by Chip
2007-03-27 16:27:57

Bill — thanks for the recommendation. Generally I stay away from stocks altogether, but that is the type that I would want.

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Comment by nhz
2007-03-27 07:17:44

Getstucco:
don’t you agree that Bernanke is starting to look exactly like the irresponsible helicopter pilot I have always considered him to be? Just a few months ago many on this blog were expecting Bernanke to be a responsible chairman, clear up the Greenspan mess and stop the explosion of the money supply. Well, I still think it will NEVER happen. He doesn’t give a damn about inflation, just like one could predict from his books and speeches from a few years ago. He is a perfect servant for the masters from Wall Street and Washington (+ London City).

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-03-27 07:29:27

GS, IMHO most major oil, gold traders don’t give a hoot what the fed does or doesn’t do anymore. They no longer are the big kids on the street. A year (maybe longer) I remarked that to invest in this market “buy what China buys, sell what China sells.” China is dictating interest rates by buying US TBonds keeping US interest rates artificially low. China is using 1/3 of the total steel production in the world, 1/4 of the total cobalt production and will do anything to maintain a growth rate that produces 15 mil new jobs every year. Estimated growth for 2007 10.8%, projected for 2008 9.8% (due to slow down in US). Inflation in the US is built in and has not worked its way thru the production yet. Cobalt has gone from $10/lb to $32/lb over the last year. Like all good third world countries instead of manufacturing with our steel and metals - we export to China. China, in desperate need for raw materials, is strengthening its ties to Africa, South America, Australia and now Russia. The worlds economies are running on all cylinders and the US is stalled at the starting line. This is the result of being a consumer oriented economy and not having fiscal responsibility - negative savings rate, current account deficits and budget deficits resulting in warnings from the IMF. This is what oil and gold traders follow. It is not a question of “if”, the question is “when”…

Comment by cmhappyrenter
2007-03-27 10:11:51

Fully agree

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Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 22:32:30

Hoz:

Nicely done~

 
 
 
 
Comment by scdave
2007-03-27 07:49:44

Rate cut ?? And what about inflation ?? The dollar would be crushed with a rate cut…..

Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-03-27 09:07:42

Stop! Don’t shoot the messenger.

 
 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2007-03-27 05:38:47

Here is a thought for this morning……

OK lets bail out the FB, but in exchange, RE agents will have to refund thier commissions to the Bank, if the buyer forecloses in say 2 years.

That would thin out the ranks pretty quickly and should eliminate fraud.

Comment by mike
2007-03-27 06:54:42

I’ll go along with that but the big scam bucks were made by the mortgage brokers. However, don’t hold your breath on either of those two “professions” getting their just dues.

Comment by nhz
2007-03-27 07:21:21

zero chance of that kind of justice happening. Most brokers are shells that use all the cashflow for high incomes and nice toys for their owners. When things go wrong, there is no money to be found there. And in most countries bringing the company owners/managers to justice for their bad practices is out of the question.

 
 
 
Comment by JP
2007-03-27 05:39:20

Connecticut goes after MLN exec for back pay:
http://tinyurl.com/3ap3n4

 
Comment by dude
2007-03-27 06:03:41

I’m thinking about relocating to the area around Nashville, within about 60 miles of the city.
Most of the smaller towns show low crime rates, and the cost of living index is low. My plan is to buy acreage and become a gentleman farmer.
I’m not worried about the lack of things to do and see, I can travel for that. Plus, I’m from Idahole, how much worse could it be?
Comments?

Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:13:30

My wife’s cousin did something like this. By all reports through the family grapevine, they are happy and prosperous.

Comment by scdave
2007-03-27 07:55:53

Interesting….We are also seriously consider moving the whole tribe….If we do, we will stay in Ca…Cal is a great state if you take the time to enjoy it…It’s a hard decision for us though…..Family has been in the same town for almost 100 years…..

 
 
Comment by brianb
2007-03-27 06:15:07

It’s beautiful there. Especially the moutainous area east of Nashville.

 
Comment by flatffplan
2007-03-27 06:22:41

my old man’s moving to Murfreesboro

 
Comment by bubbleglum
2007-03-27 06:46:12

I “lived” in north Idaho for ten years. TN could not be worse.

Comment by Incredulous
2007-03-27 07:56:17

My uncle’s family did something like that in Franklin (SP?) south of Nashville. They had tons of land, and many of their neighbors raised horses on gorgeous farms and ranches, though I don’t think any of the neighbors were real farmers or ranchers (neither was my uncle). Several were country music stars. The general landscape was beautiful, but there were briars and other barbed menaces everywhere if one strayed from the manicured lawns.

Comment by ahansen
2007-03-27 09:53:40

I forgot to add:
Be CERTAIN to buy up ALL the land around you (including accesses, water rights, and any land that might impinge upon your views,) because as soon as you improve it (ie; build on it,) the real estate ladies will descend like vultures to subdivide it into white-trash trailer parks.

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Comment by Incredulous
2007-03-27 13:43:18

You must be psychic. I didn’t add such a very important caveat because I prefer happy endings, even if just imaginary ones.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ahansen
2007-03-27 09:48:36

Dropped out of Malibu and moved to East Jesus fifteen years ago and never looked back. Love it.
Forget any idea you might have of late night, cognac-infused dialectic with your neighbors, but with the internet and an affiliation with a university or research lab you’ll avoid the urge to stick forks in your ears for lack of intellectual stimulation. Beware, also, of entrenched “good-old-boy-ism,” (particularly if you are a single female,) in the local and kounty government.

Oh, and it’s not any cheaper, just less accessible, ergo you spend less on non-essentials.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:12:30

Can anyone pinpoint when the “housing slowdown” morphed into the “housing bust?”
——————————————————————————–
New home sales slide 3.9% in February
Shaky housing market pressures U.S. economy
By Martin Crutsinger
ASSOCIATED PRESS
March 27, 2007

WASHINGTON – Sales of new homes fell for a second consecutive month in February, dimming hopes for a rebound soon in the troubled housing market and raising fears about the health of the overall economy.

The Commerce Department reported yesterday that sales of single-family homes dropped 3.9 percent last month to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 848,000 units, the slowest pace in nearly seven years.

The housing bust is coming after a boom in which sales of both new and existing homes set records for five straight years.

Some analysts see the current slowdown as a correction from a period of speculative frenzy in which investors were buying second homes in hopes of reselling them quickly to make profits.

The slowdown in housing is occurring after a two-year effort by the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates as a way of slowing the economy and keeping inflation pressures from getting out of control.

Last week, the Fed bolstered spirits on Wall Street with a signal that it might consider cutting interest rates if the economic slowdown threatens to worsen.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070327/news_1b27economy.html

Comment by saywhat?
2007-03-27 06:23:22

Stucco,
“housing bust” - I caught that as well this morning and wondered if that was the first time the MSM refered to it that way (and not quoting a bear or something like that). In any event, I laughed when I read that story.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:28:52

The MSM’s standard approach is to collectively deny points we have been making here for month after month, only to make an overnight 180 degree turn to agreement with us and to pretend this was their view all along.

Comment by CA renter
2007-03-28 04:02:28

So very true, GS, and so very annoying.

Even been hearing from personal friends and acquaintances (sp?) about how they “knew” the housing market would slow down. This, from people who constantly harassed us about our decision to sell & rent (and “miss out on all that equity”).

At least we know who said what…

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Comment by Lander
2007-03-27 16:38:26

At least in the local Sacramento media, the chronology is something like this:

Early 2006: “slowdown”
May 2006: “downturn”
Oct 2006: “slump”
??? 2007: “housing bust”

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-03-27 09:21:42

Feb - March, 2007: After the precipitous new home sales number was published followed by the suck heard around the world then the subprime aha! smacking forehead moment.

 
Comment by OB_Tom
2007-03-27 11:00:24

Another UT story today:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070327/news_1b27default.html

“Despite its high housing prices and chronic affordability issues, San Diego County saw foreclosure filings fall last month while the number rose in the rest of the state.
RealtyTrac, an Irvine-based publisher of distressed property listings, said yesterday that there were 1,065 default notices, auction sale notices and bank repossessions in the county in February. That number was down 7.4 percent from January’s filings and up 20.9 percent from February 2006.
The county figures, which are not seasonally adjusted, generally paralleled trends reported earlier by San Diego-based DataQuick Information Systems, which placed San Diego’s default notice count at 1,268 for both January and February and 480 for February last year.
“Based on our numbers for the past two months of 2007, foreclosure activity is running at a rate that would project a 33 percent increase over 2006,” RealtyTrac Chief Executive James J. Saccacio said in a statement.”

Let’s look at those numbers:

RealtyTrac, NODs (*) in S.D.: 1,065 in Feb. ‘07. down 7.4% from Jan. ’07s (=1150) and up 20.9% from Feb. ‘06 (= 887).

DataQuick Information Systems, NODs in S.D.: 1,268 in Feb. ‘07, 1,268 in Jan. ‘07 and 480 in Feb. ‘06.

How can they get numbers that different?

(*) NODs plus auction sale notices and bank repossessions.

 
Comment by OB_Tom
2007-03-27 11:18:52

http://www.shadowstats.com/cgi-bin/sgs/archives

More revisions (I wonder if this “old” news is going to make headlines?):
Mar. 27, 2007
Major Revisions to Housing, Retail Sales and Production Promise Lower GDP Growth/ Where the annualized quarterly fourth-quarter GDP inflation-adjusted growth rate revised from 3.5% in its “advance” reporting, to 2.2% in its “preliminary” reporting, further downward revision is likely in Thursday’s “final” reporting, due to significant revisions in underlying economic series.

 
 
Comment by Blue Falcon the FBs
2007-03-27 06:16:56

This is from my local real estate mortgage brokers blog. He’s ranting about the tightening lending standard and blaming them on a knee jerk reaction from Fannie Mae. It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

http://slcrealestate.blogspot.com/

::Start rant::

So I got an email from one of my favorite lenders today about new rates and terms for 100% and 97% loans –

We’ve been given a heads-up from our Secondary Marketing Department. We continue to see deterioration in the 100% products and Stated Income product offerings.

We do not have all the details but we wanted to alert you to the following:

If you have floating loans in the pipeline that fall under these products please lock them immediately.

What hurts is these new changes appear to come from Fannie Mae, meaning, my favorite lender isn’t the only one that will be affected. This will be a systemic change. FICO scores have been raised from 680 to 700. On top of that, the rates are increasing; 100% by .25% and 97% by .5%.

So why am I upset about this? Because like the way Homeland Security treats airline passengers, Fannie Mae is applying a broad brush to a problem that needs specific, targeted action taken.

Homeland Security knows that people who attack America from overseas so far have proven to be young Arab men. Their solution to the problem of young Arab men committing terrorist acts is to make every grandmother, housewife and businessman from Anchorage to Kalamazoo be searched from head to toe for cuticle scissors and toothpaste! All of this comes with a price tag of billions of taxpayer dollars. BILLIONS!

It appears that in the face of a housing downturn, America’s government sponsored enterprises which facilitate the movement and efficiency of the mortgage market, are taking a similar approach. Instead of eliminating making loans to the people who are most likely to default, they are eliminating entire programs.

I’m going to let you in on a secret here. Those “subprime” lenders that have gone out of business because of forced buybacks are going down because of fraud…not because of a few greedy borrowers here and there. They’re going down because of corporate cultures that value production over quality and a lack of regulation and oversight over corrupt mortgage brokers, real estate agents, appraisers and title personnel who are also in on the scam.

Subprime lenders are not seeing losses because the nature of the business is bad. They are seeing losses because they ignored the precautions put in place to reduce risk. Considering that about 15% of loans are even in the subprime category and that of these 15%, 90% of borrowers are paying their mortgages, the fact that a few lenders have generated so many buybacks for first payment default and fraud tells me this is not a systemic problem, it’s an isolated problem associated directly with the originators of those loans. Those lenders who have tolerated and encouraged this kind of behavior are now paying the price.

Unfortunately there are many innocent victims with mortgage fraud and everyone will pay the price. Fannie Mae is applying a knee jerk reaction to the problem. Just like Homeland Security, a broad net has been cast to scrutinize everyone, not just those who we know are most likely to be the problem.

::End rant::

Comment by mrquoi
2007-03-27 11:48:39

Is this the guy who made at least one of Casey Serin’s loans?

Comment by Blue Falcon the FBs
2007-03-27 11:56:11

He probably did do one of his loans… he also has a don’t hate casey blog and recently meet with him here in Salt Lake. The guy is a joke and a tool trying to pedal koolaid to the last of the morons in the area. I post there as a service to the unsuspecting future FB that may browse the site, just incase any of them have a semi open mind.

 
 
 
Comment by flatffplan
2007-03-27 06:20:47

LIErah someone on bloomberg pronounced his name LOO-ray
has he changed his name ? might be a good idea

Comment by StarveThe Agents
2007-03-27 08:46:36

I wonder if lesLIE appelton-young would do the same?

 
 
Comment by diogenes (tampa)
2007-03-27 06:26:33

A little update from the trenches:

It’s been a while since I posted about my company’s progress in the housing bubble-bust. As a refresher, I work for a suppier to the homebuilders. My company is a manufacturer that operates nationwide. I work in our Florida plant and our primary market is Florida, but includes the Carolinas.
Sales have been declining since about Sept of last year.
Until the beginning of the year, we were about 60-70% of the previous years sales. It began edging down this year, so that the beginning of 2007 has us operating in the red.
Sales overall are now at best 50% of the previous year and are not improving. Last week we has some up days, and there was some optomism. A couple of 70% days, but followed by some 20-30% days.
Some markets are much worse than others. While I estimate an average 50% volume overall, our ORLANDO market was down 70% in January, based on YOY sales.
I know this by talking to the commission salesman who handles that market. He had seen no improvement as of last month.
To our benefit, attrition has taken it’s toll on about 20-30% of our staff. When people left over the past year for other jobs, or were fired for cause, we simply adjusted our workload to the current employees, so we have not incurred additional unemployment costs.
Thus far we are hanging on, but senior management is now issuing cost savings directives, like cutting back on trips that are not essential, forget the Hilton, say at Best Western. That kind of thing. Are we in real trouble? I don’t know. Our staff reductions have been substantial compared to a year ago, so we may hold out without additional changes, because we are still moving materials everyday. Builders are still building.
Will we loose more sales volume?? I think before the end of summer, yes. But then, who can say?

Comment by aNYCdj
2007-03-27 06:35:30

When they END the FREE COFFEE and the Friday Pizza, you know you are DOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

Comment by scdave
2007-03-27 08:01:02

Good info diogenes……..

 
 
Comment by flatffplan
2007-03-27 06:38:12

hang in, at least you have NC
the new retirement destination

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 06:57:51

diogenes:

Thanks for for being a fine financial agent provacateur…

aLaDiNsAnE

Comment by Hoz
2007-03-27 07:32:04

I thought you took your name from David Bowie.

 
 
Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2007-03-27 07:32:38

Diogenes, can you share what type of product you make or what the raw material is? I’m in Orlando and can attest that some subdivisions that used to be under construction 7 days/week are now active only about 4 days of the week. I see this in my daily commute.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2007-03-27 09:29:40

I really enjoy your updates from the trenches, diogenes. I was wondering how sales were running compared to the beginning of the bubble. (say 2000 maybe?)

Our district has all of a sudden been denying teacher textbook requests and has started charging PTA parent volunteers for any copies they make. (This had been the rule; before they hadn’t been collecting it) WTEconomist, I believe, posted that the NYTeachers Pension Fund was heavily invested in New Century and I was wondering if that was why the district was going into a sudden frugal mode.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:33:50

I wonder if that troll who argued with Ben a couple of days ago that “U.S. real estate prices have never gone down nationally” is lurking around here today?
———————————————————————————–
ECONOMIC REPORT
Home prices go negative for first time in 11 years
Case-Shiller price index shows prices falling in 17 of 20 cities in January
By Rex Nutting, MarketWatch
Last Update: 9:27 AM ET Mar 27, 2007

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - U.S. home prices continued to fall in January, with prices in 10 major cities now down 0.7% year-over-year, according to Standard & Poor’s and MacroMarkets LLC, which released the January Case-Shiller price indexes on Tuesday.

The 10-city index is down 0.7% in the past year, the first year-over-year negative reading since 1996. The 20-city index is down 0.2% year-over-year. A year ago, prices were rising 15%.

Prices fell from December to January in 17 of the 20 cities; only Miami showed any price gains. Prices were flat in Charlotte and Seattle. Prices were falling fastest in January in San Diego, down 1.7% or a 22.4% annual rate. Prices dropped 1.1% in Los Angeles, or a 14% annual rate.

The 10-city index was down 0.8% in January, or an annual rate of 10%. The 20-city index was down 0.7% in January, or an 8.7% annual rate.
“The annual declines in the composites are a good indicator of the dire state of the U.S. residential real estate market,” says Robert J. Shiller, chief economist at MacroMarkets.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/home-prices-go-negative-first/story.aspx?guid=%7B30B54985%2D2189%2D4AE9%2DB8E5%2DECF89F6095F3%7D

Comment by Bill in Phoenix
2007-03-27 07:26:00

This is the first significant sign since all we’ve read about were sales slowdowns, but not much in price cuts. One year from today I really expect San Diego prices to be down at least 15% and LA prices down by 10%. But even after that, houses in those places will still be way unaffordable, especially with only fixed mortgages and traditional 20% down payments.

Where’s Neil? I’m gaining body fat by eating a lot of popcorn!

 
Comment by CA renter
2007-03-28 04:09:27

Haven’t we heard the “first time neg YOY since 1996″ spiel before?

I thought we had negative numbers a couple of months ago, no?

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 06:46:56

Headline indexes are plunging again on the opening bell today. I’m guessing
they will return to within a hair of their opening levels by day’s end…

http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/marketsummary/

 
Comment by edhopper
2007-03-27 06:57:21

Today on the CBS morning show, some jeroff from Bankrate.com was explaining the New Home Sales decline to Harry. At the end he said how this is a great Buyers Market because of all the choices. “You can really find the house you want.” Sure if you want to overpay foir it.
Houses are still priced around 10x average income, IT IS NOT A BUYERS MARKET!!!
When buyers can afford to buy (I am a buyer and I can’t) then it will be a buyers market.
I am tired of hearing this B.S.

Comment by chilidoggg
2007-03-27 08:33:00

Why the negative connotation with jeroffs? I always associate them with good feelings - you know, like Toys “R” Us.

 
Comment by John Fontain
2007-03-27 10:55:59

Agreed. High inventory absent good prices does not a buyers’ market make.

 
 
Comment by cactus
 
Comment by SDMisfit
2007-03-27 07:08:10

A 37% price drop already? This 383 sq. ft. bank foreclosure studio in hillcrest has been reduced to $189,000. Sold for $300,000 in June 2005.

About a quarter of the 60 units in the building are for sale by lemmings that rushed in after the apt. building was converted to condos in 2003 or 2004. I expect them to cut and run once this measly studio leads the prices over the cliff. (by the way the building is called Cliffbridge; ).

http://www.varealty.com/va-real-estate/homes-for-sale/ca-california/san-diego/mission-hills.html
http://www.sdlookup.com/ListingDetails/tabid/73/plid/669984/Default.aspx

Comment by stockmarketguru
2007-03-27 08:28:57

383 sq ft for a studio? what the fuk is that? a room? even at 189k that is almost 500 bucks a sq ft….what a ripoff even at 189k. Who is the sucker that bot at 300k? total moron.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2007-03-27 09:48:10

Don’t forget the $243/mo HO Fee.

Ah, just part of becoming a mover and a shaker.

Comment by Wickedheart
2007-03-27 14:05:23

They like to call it the “sunshine tax” here. You’re supposed to work for less and pay more for housing for all that beautiful sunshine.

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Comment by SDMisfit
2007-03-27 10:03:37

I rented a 1-bedroom here - it was probably a little over 700 sq. ft. so the studio is half that. The first link has the price at $204,000, but the second link (sdlookup) shows it marked down to $189,000. This whole apartment building should never have been converted. There is a huge glut of these conversions in the Hillcrest area. My guess is that the price for this studio will ultimately be under $100,000.

Comment by Chip
2007-03-27 18:34:24

“My guess is that the price for this studio will ultimately be under $100,000.”

Which still would be more than $250/sq.ft. So, this place comes with a great view?

 
 
 
Comment by implosion
2007-03-27 07:11:35

My post didn’t stick in the NM thread under the “Riding the Real Estate Cycle in CA” article. I reposted it there, but OT now so I’ll toss it in here as well.

I think Misstrial lives in the southern part of the state in Las Cruces so she can speak to that area. I know a few others in NM have posted in the past as well. She has it about right, imo, other than I believe the fiscal effect of Sandia and Los Alamos National Labs is nontrivial, but localized. That has changed a bit this past year since LANL’s tax status changed and they now have to pay tax to the state. LANL was considered a non-profit educational institution since they were run by the University of California and therefore exempt from the tax. LANL employees were employees of the University of California until last year.

SNL is in Albuquerque on Kirtland Air Force Base, and LANL is in Los Alamos County. Los Alamos is about 105 miles from Abq., and about 35 miles from Santa Fe. SNL is run by Lockheed-Martin, and LANL is now run by Los Alamos National Security (LANS) for the Department of Energy.

LANL and Sandia have highly paid workers. Los Alamos county is one of the highest (maybe even the highest) per capita income counties in the US. The rest of the state has some of the poorest counties in the US – “Stepping Stone to the Third World” as some say. Remember the poster telling you a week or two ago about his trip to Farmington?

On top of the lame prices in Abq, there are really ridiculous prices in Santa Fe and Taos in Northern NM. There is a large number of state government employees in SF. SF has about the same median income as the US as a whole, while the median house prices are much higher.

IMO, much of the recent housing price run up in Abq is due to out-of-state buyers. They vanish, and there is really no support for high house prices in Abq. Several of my properties in Abq. I sold were to CA buyers. Intel has a fab plant on the west side of the Rio Grande next to Abq, and the city of Rio Rancho has grown around it. A lot of building continues in that area.

I’ve never figured out the high prices in SF. I have been of the opinion that at one time SF was considered “in”, but I do not hear that kind of talk much anymore. Again, out of state buyers likely a factor in the prices. A reasonable percentage of LANL employees live in SF. SF Mayor was on TV a couple of weeks ago bemoaning how immigration came and did a sweep in SF w/o informing city officials.

nycboy, a partial answer to a question you raised is that a lot of land in NM is Indian land and US Gov’t land. Prices in Los Alamos, for example, are very high in part because it is surrounded by DOE, Forest Service and Indian land. SF and Abq have a similar situation on a couple of their boundaries. However, the prices in Los Alamos are also dependent on the fate of LANL, since most people that live in Los Alamos work for LANL (or are retired from LANL).

NM has apparently added another #1 to their long list of accomplishments - the paper the other day said NM is the most dangerous state in which to live in the US. I think NV was #2? Immediate response was to attack the methodology, etc. NM held the title of “Dumbest State” for several years. I think the baton got passed to AZ recently. NM has a lot of high per capita rankings for unwed parents, teen pregnancy, DUI related accidents, uninsured drivers. Not surprisingly, NM also has the highest return of federal $ per tax dollar sent to DC. I’ve provided SF and Abq crime stats before, not exactly a selling point.

So you guys don’t think I’m too negative, NM does have some of the best SW food you could ever hope to eat, a long and interesting history, and some really beautiful areas.

Comment by txchick57
2007-03-27 07:25:01

Of course SF is out of state buyers. Shoot, if they’re not New Yorkers, they’re Californians. I learned that the hard way when I tried to buy a place in Tesuque earlier this year. The owner was a doctor from California and was he ever a flake. But he was wealthy and didn’t give a damn if he sold or not.

I love New Mexico.

Comment by johnny
2007-03-27 10:50:10

Prices in NM are ridiculous across the board. Most houses in ABQ should not be over $150k. There is very little employment and salaries are mostly crap. Schools are bad and available property is being overbuilt with cheap houses on small lots. Most of the RE increase here took a while to get started, but after CA and AZ got too expensive for the locusts, they started swarming here.

I linked to an article awhile back but can’t find it. Suffice it to say that inventory was much higher this Feb than last and prices are slowly easing down here. I’m keeping an eye on things and hopefully as CA and AZ fall apart, it will ripple over here and I’ll be ready to buy.

 
 
Comment by cactus
2007-03-27 13:09:54

Check out Zillow graphs of Albuquerque home prices , crazy appreciation and then right back down all happening in less than a year. Tucson same thing. Smells like hot investor money going cold.

 
 
Comment by zeropointzero
2007-03-27 07:16:12

Got my “special invitation” from Mister The Donald Trump himself to attend a very special wealth building seminar in a couple weeks, featuring his genius offspring Ivanka.

What better way to spend a Saturday in mid-April (which is one of the most pleasant weather months in the Washington area, by the way) than getting dubious/obvious financial advice while being up-sold on expensive additional wealth-building training and materials?

Honestly, the urge to see how pathetic and craven this event would be ALMOST makes me want to skip a lovely spring Saturday for it. Fortunately, the operative word here is ALMOST.

Anyone ever go to one of these things, just for the hell of it?

Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 07:27:30

I don’t know about the rest of you, but…

Ivanka never see the Donald again.

go away.

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-03-27 08:08:52

I received one a couple of weeks ago to go to one in Milwaukee, I thought of going just to get the dinner. A friend in Chicago told me the dinner was hotdogs. Is this true?

 
Comment by ChrisO
2007-03-27 08:56:35

I got that “invitation” yesterday in the mail, also. A pretty expensive little mailer, actually. One of the items supposedly to be discussed is how to make money off of the foreclosure wave.

 
Comment by Chip
2007-03-27 18:39:25

Shucks. The onliest invite I got was to a new park full of Fleetwood mannifackchered homes. But they now have triple-wides, so I thought they figgered I was one-a their big time marks. Whut an ego-buster. Trump — heck, he never invited me to nuthin.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 07:22:57

About being smart and this bubble?

My sister is scary smart.

When we were kids, both of us caught a glimpse of our iq tests and from my recollections, she clocked in @ 4 iq points higher than me.

Why does she own 3 houses now?

Comment by chilidoggg
2007-03-27 08:36:47

Did she sell the other 28, 2 years ago?

Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 08:45:53

She’s a hoarder, not a seller.

Just like everybody else.

I didn’t have the heart to tell her about the physical impossibilities of being in 3 different places @ the same time~

 
 
 
Comment by crash1
2007-03-27 07:28:59

Here’s an interesting counter to the “wages are increasing” argument. Public Works magazine, a trade publication for people in the government publics works sector just completed a wage and benefit survey in the March 2007 edition. According to the survey, salaries have, in many cases, gone down in the last year. Median salaries have gone from $72,500 in 2005 to $65,000 in 2006. That’s a 10% decrease. While the cost of living continues to increase, most respondents said that their salaries are not keeping up. Public works managers feel their standard of living is falling. On the other hand, six out of ten respondents said their benefits are better than those in the private sector, including liberal vacation, holiday and solid health insurance.

While the vacation is nice to have, it does not put food on the table or make the mortgage payment. I think public pay is generally on the downtrend.

Comment by scdave
2007-03-27 11:59:21

1st year firefighter makes 100K here….third year guy clicks @ around 120K….Not bad for eleven days work…..Water Meter reader makes around 65K…..City manager makes 270K….Utility design engineer @ 55 just retired and has a 145K pension…..Chief of police retired with 170K pension….No downward pressure in my Hood…..

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 07:30:20

What would drive somebody like Tony Snow to parachute onto the deck of a fully engulfed aircraft carrier and then claim the flames are beneficial?

30 pieces of Silver

15 minutes of “fame”

 
Comment by arlingtonva
2007-03-27 07:35:53

“His goal (Senator Dodd), he said, is not to deny low-income people access to capital or scare investors away from the subprime market altogether, but rather to find some way to help consumers meet their mortgage obligations.”
http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/26/real_estate/Dodd/index.htm?postversion=2007032709

His goal is to magically make subprime loans not act ’subprimely’.

Comment by nhz
2007-03-27 08:33:59

… and to help all voters buy a home that is way beyond their means (as in way above ‘average’).

Comment by spike66
2007-03-27 16:43:02

If Dodd wants to help FBs so much, I suggest he start by writing some personal checks to bail out some FBs in his home state. The he and Hil can host a telethon, a la Jerry Lewis, and let those who want to bail out FBs call in pledges. Hil’s hollywood pals can provide the entertainment and bathos.

 
 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 07:45:23

Something is amiss in denying that this yield curve is inverted — just look at the roller-coaster slope from 6 mos out to 2 yrs, which suggests a market looking forward to a recession within the six month to two-year time horizon, followed by massive respiking of the punch bowl (rather than fixating on the 2-year to 10-year spread, as Hulbert suggests…).

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates/index.html

“MARK HULBERT
The not-inverted yield curve
Commentary: Something’s amiss in how advisers are handling fluctuation
By Mark Hulbert, MarketWatch
Last Update: 12:04 AM ET Mar 27, 2007

ANNANDALE, Va. (MarketWatch) — I would be a rich man if I had a dollar for every adviser who, over the past 15 months or so, argued that a recession was imminent because the yield curve had become inverted.
I’d be a very poor man if my wealth were dependent on getting a dollar for every one of those advisers who, since late last week, has even acknowledged that the yield curve has become positive again - much less conceded that, by the logic of their previous argument, a recession has become less likely.

It just goes to show how difficult it is to be truly objective in this business.

There is no consensus among economists concerning which particular maturities should be focused on when determining whether the yield curve is inverted. One pairing that is widely used, however, is the difference between the yields on two-year and 10-year Treasuries.”

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/now-not-inverted-yield-curve/story.aspx?guid=%7B308184EA%2DA2A2%2D4B4E%2DA55A%2DDA251E680AA8%7D

 
Comment by crsipy&cole
2007-03-27 08:19:49

“Rapid rise left room for decline”

http://www.bakersfield.com/619/story/107405.html

Comment by crispy&cole
2007-03-27 08:23:17

Money quote:

Local appraiser Michael Launer of Launer & Associates Inc. said the new housing market is strong. He said median sales prices do not accurately reflect the market as a whole and can be skewed if fewer high-priced homes are sold during a certain period

Comment by davidcee
2007-03-27 08:49:53

The slow pace of sales and an increase in completed homes pushed inventories of unsold houses to a 16-year high:
Gary Bigg, an economist at Bank of America securities, said: “This suggests that the recovery in residential construction may be stretched out beyond the first half of 2007.”

Sales last month were 18 per cent lower than a year ago and many economists fear the market could be pushed lower by the subprime mortgage crisis.
fears that more than 2m Americans could be at risk of foreclosure in the next two years as payments jump on popular teaser-rate loans.

 
Comment by crispy&cole
2007-03-27 08:53:49

I have logged this guys quote into my memory banks to refer to in a few months and then I will publicly shame him!

 
 
 
Comment by Hoz
2007-03-27 08:24:51

With regards to future inflation:
FOOD
“…Dick Bond, chief executive of Tyson Foods, the world’s largest protein producer, has called on Washington to recognise the competing claims of the food and energy sectors when drawing up a proposed farm bill. “If left unaddressed, the bigger long-term issue will be the availability of US and global grain for protein and other foods,” he warns.

The USDA predicts that farm cash receipts will this year be 22 per cent above their average over the past decade. Yet Mr Bartz and others should not expect too much of a bonanza. After taking into account higher costs for fertiliser, feed and seeds, the department forecasts that farm expenses will be an even sharper 24 per cent above the 10-year average. That leaves American farmers sharing an aggregate income of $67bn (£34bn, €50bn), barely changed from 2006….
The USDA’s March annual conference normally brings together farmers, government officials, agricultural lobbyists, seed, fertiliser and farm machinery suppliers, and the merchants from groups such as Cargill. But this year in Arlington another group was also in evidence: potential investors.

“I have been coming to this event for more than 10 years and I have hardly seen a hedge fund here before. Now they are all looking to become grains experts,” says one farm machinery analyst. A hedge fund manager, explaining his presence, says: “If there is any risk to biofuels on agriculture, it is on the upside [for grain prices], because the US government wants more biofuels, not less.”

But John Johnson, chief executive of CHS, a large US farming co-operative, says the industry should be cautious about the ethanol-driven surge. CHS owns 22 per cent of BioEnergy, one of America’s biggest ethanol producers.

“We could have unintended consequences from this,” he warns. “If grain prices go too high too quickly, it could push up food prices and we could see a consumer backlash against biofuels. Consumers will be upset that theirfood bills are rising sharply.” Rural boom could, in other words, turn to bust once again.”

and another reason to worry

There is a US billboard showing an American farmer beside a photo of an Arab oil sheik with the caption: “Who do you want to buy your gasoline from?”

It aims to promote homemade corn-based ethanol as part of a drive for energy independence.

The irony is that the US will need to rely heavily on nitrogen-based fertilisers to expand its maize production, and many of these are supplied by the very countries on which the country is keen to reduce its energy dependence….
The US now needs to import this type of fertiliser as many of the country’s petrochemical plants that made urea, a nitrogen-containing compound, were shut down when US natural gas prices spiked to then record highs in 2003. Urea is made from ammonia, which is a derivative of natural gas.

Mr Prince says urea production is a low-margin business and only the lowest- cost natural gas or oil producers can remain in the business when gas and oil prices rise. The Middle East and Russia have the world’s largest gas reserves.

In fact, US companies have been helping to finance and construct nitrogen plants overseas, as domestic producers are saddled with higher operating costs. US companies have also moved some of their plants to Trinidad and Tobago, where gas reserves have created a petrochemical sector, including ammonia-making facilities…”
From todays Financial Times

So if you haven’t stocked up your deep freezer - I would advise you to do it now. Welcome to “energy independence”. A spiraling inflation food, energy and resources.
http://tinyurl.com/2jphbq
http://tinyurl.com/2o6dov

Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-03-27 12:44:45

Fertilizer prices are looking pretty good if you are an exporter. Urea is trading fob Yuzhny at $310 with $360 or so NOLA.

 
Comment by cassiopeia
2007-03-27 13:49:33

Hoz, you are right about that. That is why GWB’s recent trip to Brazil to hype ethanol was a joke and a cruel lie. Brazilian ethanol is an important step forward, but in no way is it a solution. To produce it, you need more energy (esp. fertilizers) than the output of energy you get from it. It only works because the Brazilian government’s subsidies. This guy, whoever he is, has a point. If we keep heading this way, we are going to end up with higher food prices and no less energy dependence. Food producing countries will be very grateful, but it is still stupid. I just give up on mankind.

 
Comment by txchick57
2007-03-27 14:38:19

We be long corn at this shoppe since mentioning it as a must have back in early Dec.

 
 
Comment by stockmarketguru
2007-03-27 08:33:40

Flip that house. I saw a re-run of Flip that house on A&E or whatever cable channel and this mexican/spanish girl bot a 670 sq ft 1 bed/1bath dump in Pasadena for $225k and put $75 into it. The place was a real bum’s galore, but renovated to make it look great. The real estate agent wanted to start to sell it at $549k…I almost choked on my potatoe chips….$549k for a 670 sq ft 1bed 1bath home??? That is over $800 bucks a sq ft……..Shows like Flip this crap hole and make a cool quarter of a million is what fueled the image of easy money…and the housing bubble….people are disillusioned by what new tile, granite countertops, paint, landscaping can do….really…make 1/4 of a million for 2 months of renovation….what a lot of crap.

 
Comment by 85249 is Toast
2007-03-27 08:55:13

A little shopping anecdote…

We’re looking to possibly buy one a new washer/dryer combo (the new front loading variety). I went into Home Depot this weekend and the salesman was falling all over himself trying to get me to buy. Actually, they had a decent deal (10% off any laundry appliance and an additional 10% off if you use a Home Depot credit card). That would have saved me about $400 on the spot. I think I’ll wait until next year (probably January) to see what deals are available then. I expect fire sales on big ticket items.

Comment by StarveThe Agents
2007-03-27 09:11:16

Hey, when the FBs are stripping thier soon-to-be forclosed properties, I’d imagine cheap appliances will be abundant. Since many of these were properties -not homes, these appliances could easily have never been used.

Comment by 85249 is Toast
2007-03-27 09:24:16

True. I’m also keeping a close eye on Craigslist. Hopefully, I will be swooping in with cash next year to grab some deals on furniture and appliances.

Comment by StarveThe Agents
2007-03-27 09:36:18

You know, I’ve always wondered if you were to chart the volume of a given commodity on craig’s list, could you extrapolate a particular region’s debt burden? I live in San Diego, and it seems the ad volume of motorcycles is rapidly increasing…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
 
Comment by speedingpullet
2007-03-27 08:59:28

stockmartketguru - hehehe…I love watching those re-runs of “Flip This/That House” and “Property Ladder”….;-) I have the Malibu one, where the lady ‘wouldn’t consider anything less than 2.3 million’ for her place on my ZipRealty search. Unsurprisingly, it’s been on the MLS for almost 2 years now, and she still hasn’t sold it.

Sadly, $800 per sq ft still seems a quite ‘reasonable’ asking price here in Los Angeles, and you won’t get much change from $500K for anything here at the moment.

Put it this way, some mobile homes on the Pacific Coast Highway are listed at around $300K, and are by far and away the cheapest SFRs you’ll find within spitting distance of the Westside.

And, bear in mind, that if you were to pull the trigger and buy you’d A) be living in a trailer park, and B) live on the PCH…

If you don’t know L.A too well, the Pacific Coast Highway is basically an unoffical coastal freeway/parking lot (depending on the time of day), where it can take up to 10 minutes to pull in or out of your garage, while you wait for an infinite line of cars to actually stop long enough for you to turn.

$500K won’t even buy you a shack in South Central - beacuse, natually, prices there are still going up.

 
Comment by goleta
2007-03-27 09:43:21

Global warming is already hitting some southern States’ RE hard, according to the following NYT article, “Heat Invades Cool Heights Over Arizona Desert”

It’s the 3rd most emailed article on
NYT’s most emailed article list

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 09:55:36

I’ve rather relentlessly hyped Gold on here, as some of you may have noticed…

Just got off the blower with one of the bigger players, in things Gold.

He said “it’s all buyers”

I have stood to not profit one red Cent, from my prognostications, and let’s be honest with one another, for once?

Somebody has to end up with the Gold

And i’m always babbling on about Mother Nature,(always bat’s last) and let me tell you how Gold works perfectly into her plans…

As we sit, there is a gross oversupply of fiat money and people, so much so, that if everybody desired their wealth in the yellow metal, there quite simply wouldn’t be enough to go around.

When an alluvial Gold nugget is fished out of a river or a larger Gold nugget is found with a metal detector, in the back of beyond, in Australia, typically, they are about 90% pure. Natural, the Perfect form of wealth.

Your Mother is more than a little pissed. We took 5,000 years to get to a Billion people in 1900, and then sextupled ourselves in just 100 years.

Some of you are going to have to get off.

Time is not on your side.

Comment by Hoz
2007-03-27 11:39:10

As we are on the same side of the street, there will be no disagreement from me. Gold is good! So are Silver, Platinum, Iridium and just about every metal in existence. Some of these other metals have been under government control. Now that governments are no longer selling. These metals have risen 300% in the last year alone. The point you and I as well as others try to make is fiat currencies fail. Fiat currencies fail 100% of the time.

 
 
Comment by mcat
2007-03-27 10:16:44

The following information is posted on the FICO website. In light of everything that’s transired lately I have a hard time believing thier statistics are accurate.

Number of Credit Obligations
On average, today’s consumer has a total of 13 credit obligations on record at a credit bureau. These include credit cards (such as department store charge cards, gas cards, or bank cards) and installment loans (auto loans, mortgage loans, student loans, etc.). Not included are savings and checking accounts (typically not reported to a credit bureau). Of these 13 credit obligations, 9 are likely to be credit cards and 4 are likely to be installment loans.

Past Payment Performance
On average, today’s consumers are paying their bills on time. Less than half of all consumers have ever been reported as 30 or more days late on a payment. Only 3 out of 10 have ever been 60 or more days overdue on any credit obligation. 77% of all consumers have never had a loan or account that was 90+ days overdue, and less than 20% have ever had a loan or account closed by the lender due to default.

Credit Utilization
About 40% of credit card holders carry a balance of less than $1,000. About 15% are far less conservative in their use of credit cards and have total card balances in excess of $10,000. When we look at the total of all credit obligations combined (except mortgage loans), 48% of consumers carry less than $5,000 of debt. This includes all credit cards, lines of credit, and loans-everything but mortgages. Nearly 37% carry more than $10,000 of non-mortgage-related debt as reported to the credit bureaus.

Total Available Credit
The typical consumer has access to approximately $19,000 on all credit cards combined. More than half of all people with credit cards are using less than 30% of their total credit card limit. Just over 1 in 7 are using 80% or more of their credit card limit.

Length of Credit History
The average consumer’s oldest obligation is 14 years old, indicating that he or she has been managing credit for some time. In fact, we found that 1 out of 4 consumers had credit histories of 20 years or longer. Only 1 in 20 consumers had credit histories shorter than 2 years.

Inquiries
When someone applies for a loan or a new credit card account - in short, any time one applies for credit and a lender requests a copy of the credit report - this request is noted as an “inquiry” in the applicant’s credit file. The average consumer has had only one inquiry on his or her accounts within the past year. Fewer than 6% had four or more inquiries resulting from a search for new credit.

Comment by mcat
2007-03-27 11:03:19

Sorry, typing too fast today. It should say transpired instead of transired, and their instead of thier.

 
 
Comment by azrenter
2007-03-27 10:39:58

go to hgtv.com and go to buyers and sellers blog. you will see the real story about day on the market and lowering of prices. there are no buyers.

Comment by bublicious
2007-03-27 21:04:34

Wow. Those losers are praying to Jesus in CAPS and begging other posters for POSITIVE news. So F%#ked.

 
 
Comment by Bernadette
2007-03-27 10:42:44

From Broward County, FL
As usual thank you Ben for all the great work and dedication. Thanks to other bloggers and “community members.”

Visited the Broward County Prop Appraiser’s website today to track a few props. randomly. I noticed that the current apprasials in some instances are less than purchase price, esp for props. purchased bet 2003-2006. Good sign for us “hold-outs”?

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 10:48:08

My superhero idol?

Why, Politenessman… of course.

A bit of a comma-kaze, when you get right down to it.

 
Comment by OB_Tom
2007-03-27 11:13:22

Did anyone hear the experts talk about out-migration from San Diego on KPBS this morning (around 9:45)? Now I know what the BS stands for in KPBS.
“People are willing to pay the sun-shine tax, bla bla, it doesn’t matter San Diego saleries are lower, bla bla, they just cut down on other expenses”.
Cut down? So all the Hummers and RVs and speedboats and 2007 monster SUVs I see around here belong to people from out of town? Makes sense.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 11:21:10

I heard part of it. Their “experts” seem oblivious to the surplus of overpriced homes that will not sell that are left in the wake of the outmigration of families that would have stayed around were it not for a doubling of home prices since 2000.

 
 
Comment by W.D. Potter
2007-03-27 13:05:23

A conservatively managed regional bank announced that they will be taking a [small] charge due to problems with a mortgage subsidary, stating: “Investor underwriting requirements for the 80/20 [mortgage] Program do not require independent verification of the borrower’s income.” As an investor in the bank I fired off an email to investor relations asking why they ever engaged in risky “liar loans.” The bank’s CEO just called me! What he said tells us all how bad this will get. He said that the subsidary made a lot of money for them in 04 and 05, everyone was doing it, and Wall Street was really pushing these products. They are now carefully reviewing all aspects of this (translation: drastic tightening of credit standards). The brakes are going to be hit hard, bringing the economy to a screaching halt.

Comment by CA renter
2007-03-28 04:25:08

Good post, Potter! Great (amazing, actually) to hear the CEO called you back. Wow.

 
 
Comment by txchick57
2007-03-27 13:09:46
Comment by But_Im_Not_Dead_Yet
2007-03-27 17:23:27

It does not take 50% of the vote to win a presidential election in the U.S.!!!

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 20:13:19

Where’s the love?
——————————————————————————-
‘Forty-eight percent of Independent voters also said that they would choose another candidate over Clinton, the poll, which surveyed 2,223 potential voters, states.

Fifty-six percent of men said that they would not vote for Clinton, while 45 percent of women said that she would not be their pick. In addition, 69 percent of those 62 and older said that they would not vote for Clinton.

Nearly half of the respondents said that they dislike Clinton’s political opinions and Clinton as a person. Fifty-two percent of people also said that “she does not appear to connect with people on a personal level.”’

 
 
Comment by LinQ
2007-03-27 14:49:38

Don’t know if this has been posted or not but it has some pretty interesting comments:
Is the housing market affecting the U.S. economy overall?

 
Comment by But_Im_Not_Dead_Yet
2007-03-27 17:21:54

Beazer Homes is being investigated for Fraud:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070327/beazer_homes_investigation.html?.v=6

The Charlotte Observer reported last week that the company had an unusually high rate of foreclosures in many developments around North Carolina’s largest city. The paper reported that of the 2,900 Beazer homes built in Mecklenburg County between 1997 and 2006, at least 388 have foreclosed — a rate above 13 percent.

Nationally, fewer than 3 percent of buyers lose homes to foreclosure, the paper said. In its series, The Observer documented four examples where the income and debts of borrowers were misstated on their applications for government-insured loans.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-03-27 19:40:04

You know…

If a few dozen honest men and women, all with a bit of do re mi, in the bank, were to all show up @ the same time and rightfully ask for their money out of said bank, in cash?

Maybe they’d be able to go to say the 4th customer and then, Boom! out go the lights, they’d run out of moolah, hopefully.

I’d be ok with some tv news goons covering the action.

Not that i’d ever endorse such behavior. Reprehensible.

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 20:19:05

No worries! No credit crunch around here!!!
———————————————————————————–
Posted on Sun, Mar. 25, 2007
PERSPECTIVE COVER STORY
Traps of easy credit
Reckless lending to blame for mortgage woes
By James Grant
COMMENTARY

THE TOP MAN at the Treasury Department urged calm this month in the face of losses on Wall Street brought on by fears of defaults on the riskier kinds of mortgages. Really, he said, the damage is easily containable. (CLICK)

But of all people, Henry Paulson, former head of the New York investment banking house of Goldman Sachs, should know just how reasonable this near-panic was. Easy credit has long been the American financial lifeblood. Anything resembling stringency on the part of our formerly carefree lenders would tend to set the economy on its ear.

Easy credit financed the bull market in houses and the flood of home refinancings. Americans felt richer and spent as though they were. It stands to reason that the withdrawal of this manna will lead them to spend less — with substantial collateral damage to the housing-centered U.S. consumer economy, and, perhaps, well beyond. Our captains of industry owe as much to their lenders’ leniency as does any subprime, or high-risk, home buyer. They, too, have been able to raise money on terms unimaginable only four years ago.

All this sounds scary enough, and it is. But financial history offers some solace. The U.S. economy excels in the art of facing up to error — of identifying it, reappraising it and then repricing it. Loans, especially the risky kind, have been mispriced. They were, and are, too cheap. They will be repriced — as they were, for example, in the aftermath of the junk-bond and real-estate troubles of the late 1980s and early 1990s. Borrowing costs will go up, and the value of the things that debt financed will tend to go down. In an attempt to ease the pain, the Federal Reserve will print more money.

A sign of the times was the announcement the other day by the top U.S. mortgage lender, Countrywide Financial, that it will no longer help the average Joe or Jane buy a house with not one dollar down. The era of lending home buyers 100 percent of the purchase price is over, it said. The other surviving mortgage originators have been forced to adopt similar policies — not as stringent as in Grandfather’s day, but a radical departure from the free-and-easy ways of the recent past.

It wouldn’t matter so much if the new sobriety affected only a narrow segment of the home-buying population. But no less than 40 percent of the residential real estate market faces a much higher borrowing bar, according to a new report from Credit Suisse. About one in five of last year’s mortgage originations could not have been booked if 2007 standards had applied, the banking firm estimates.

But the ripples from this cold bath go even further than the $8 trillion mortgage market. The truth is that the no-down-payment, no-documentation, interest-only mortgage loan has its counterparts in most branches of American finance.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/opinion/16970799.htm

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 20:21:34

We have nothing to fear but Wall Street

The US mortgage scandal shows the economy is being held hostage by speculators

Larry Elliott, economics editor
Monday March 26, 2007
The Guardian

Franklin D Roosevelt’s inaugural address to the American people in March 1933 is a work of oratorical beauty. Delivered at the nadir of the Great Depression, it struck the same chord as Churchill’s great speeches when Britain was at bay seven years later. Rereading it, one phrase sticks out. Not, perhaps surprisingly, “we have nothing to fear but fear itself”, but FDR’s tart comments on Wall Street’s role in the collapse of the world’s biggest economy between 1929 and 1932: “Practices of the unscrupulous moneychangers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men.”

It could be said that Roosevelt’s rhetorical flourishes sit awkwardly alongside the way he snuggled up to corporate America, especially in the early years of his presidency. Yet, he was right when he said the “moneychangers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilisation”.

Wall Street’s influence was much diminished in the wake of the slump; there was less conspicuous consumption, a much diminished influence for the financial interest, curbs on capital, a more even division of the spoils. Now, the moneychangers are back, bigger and badder than ever. Sometimes it takes a particular incident to bring to public attention what should be blindingly obvious: that the power of the financial interest (not just in the United States, but in Britain too) has increased, is increasing and ought to be diminished. Unless that happens, there is no prospect of, as FDR put it, restoring the temple “to the ancient truths”.

The incident that has highlighted the problem of an over-mighty financial interest is the sub-prime mortgage scandal. One way of looking at what has happened over the past five years is that the innovative American financial services industry found a way of providing loans so that those on relatively low incomes could become part of a property-owning democracy.

The other way of looking at it is that a bunch of snake-oil salesmen, hucksters and crooks fleeced millions of vulnerable Americans in an attempt to (a) keep the housing bubble going; (b) make themselves fat commissions; (c) create new financial instruments that could be used as speculative plays on Wall Street; and (d) pick up property on the cheap when loans were foreclosed.

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,2042700,00.html

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-03-27 20:24:34

FDIC’s Bair Urges Congress to Pass U.S. Mortgage Law (Update3)
By Alison Vekshin and James Tyson

March 27 (Bloomberg) — Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. Chairman Sheila Bair said Congress should set a standard to protect borrowers against predatory lenders, becoming the first top regulator to urge a legislative fix for the subprime crisis.

“The time has come for national anti-predatory lending standards,” she said today at a House Financial Services subcommittee hearing in Washington. Legislation “should raise the bar by strengthening protections available to borrowers” and be broad enough to cover state-regulated lenders who issue most subprime loans, she said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601170&sid=aiJAbLZ808Og&refer=home

 
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