“Having To Go Back To The Way The Old Market Was”
The Bradenton Herald reports from Florida. “Condo buyers are getting a warm welcome these days with 2,246 condos actively listed for sale in Manatee County. A caveat might be: If you’re selling condos, you’d better have them competitively priced or they won’t sell, according to developers and real estate sales agents.”
“A broker who sells waterfront condos and single- family homes on Anna Maria Island and Longboat Key was unenthused Monday about the market. ‘All of the listings are coming down in price. They’re not even moving even though they’re coming down,’ said Phillip Saadi, a broker in New Tampa. ‘Why? I don’t know.’”
The Herald Tribune. “Warren Hickernell looked like the boldest contrarian in the Southwest Florida real estate market last year. He spent millions changing motels and apartment buildings into condominiums long after the conversion trend seemed spent.”
“But with banks foreclosing on six of his 18 conversion projects, demanding repayment of more than $17 million, Hickernell now looks like a gambler whose luck ran out after he kept letting it ride on red.”
“In December 2005, Hickernell bought the 46-unit Bermuda Apartments in Sarasota from Daniel Prewett for $10.23 million, court records show. Prewett had paid just $5 million nine months earlier.”
“‘Hickernell had to have a lot of courage to pay that much at that time,’ said Kent Davis, a former Anna Maria Island motel owner. ‘Everyone knew the market was dead in late 2005. No one expected a happy ending at that point. It was game over.’”
“Backed by the RBS Companies of Brighton, Mich., and other investors, Hickernell spent nearly $20 million to buy five apartment complexes during the first six months of 2006.”
“Court records show that Hickernell and his partners defaulted on their first loan on June 30, 2006, just three days after a different Hickernell-led investment team had spent $6 million to buy the 41-unit Three Fountain Apartments in Sarasota.”
“The default was on a $1.884 million loan from the Bank of Commerce that was used to buy the Pearl Beach Inn in July 2004. The bank foreclosed on Pearl Beach six months later.”
“Meanwhile, three investors contacted by the Herald-Tribune say Hickernell has not informed them about his financial struggles. ‘We heard he had a problem with one property,’ said Boca Grande resident William Decklever. ‘We didn’t realize he was having trouble with five.’”
“In the latter half of 2006…two California investors, John Couch and Christopher Woods, appeared on the scene and bought five Bermuda condo units at an average price of $659,200, nearly twice the average per unit price paid by the first three buyers.”
“Richard Dear and other experts contacted by the Herald-Tribune are convinced that the two Californians paid way too much. ‘I would not want to be the lenders holding the mortgages on those properties,’ said Dear, a Siesta Key vacation resort owner and friend of Hickernell’s.”
The Orlando Sentinel. “In the midst of showing a house for sale, real-estate agent Debbie Frucci got an unexpected visit, from a police officer.”
“The problem: her open-house signs. Placed in the public right of way, the signs violated Winter Springs city rules. So the signs came down, and the open house got shut down. ‘There was no sense in doing it if people didn’t know where to go,’ Frucci said.”
“Open houses have become increasingly important in the softening real-estate market. But most of the signs, whether those placed by real-estate agents, new-home builders or homeowners, are there illegally, and local governments are cracking down. A coordinated, statewide sweep six months ago collected more than 7,000 signs in just Orange and Seminole counties.”
“‘A lot of our members weren’t having to do open houses, the market was so hot,’ said Frankie Elliott, VP of government affairs for the Realtor association. But things have changed. There’s more than a year of inventory on the market, according to association data.”
“‘Now, you’re having to go back to the way the old market was,’ Elliott said. ‘You don’t want to spend four hours sitting in a house and have no one come by because your signs have been taken.’”
“Even real-estate veteran E. Everette Huskey found himself with virtually no customers at an open house when his sign advertising the event got removed from along Wekiva Springs Road. ‘They’re hurting the Realtors,’ he said. ‘They’re hurting the homeowner.’”
“‘The Realtors are being thrown in a big pot, if you will, with all the other people that put out a gazillion little signs [such as] ‘Lose 30 pounds in 30 days,’ said Jeff Bales, a Lake Mary real-estate agent.”
“Gloria Beharry owns the house Frucci was trying to sell. Now paying taxes and mortgages on two houses since she moved to a bigger home, Beharry wants to sell fast. ‘If the house had more exposure,’ she said, ‘it would help a lot.’”
The Sun Herald. “This deal is dead. Developer Mark Flannagan allowed the March 28 closing date to pass, effectively ending his intention to purchase the 12-acre tract of land comprising Shady Haven Mobile Home Park for $7.8 million in order to build a condo complex there off Old Englewood Road.”
“‘Our contract is now dissolved,’ said park co-owner Mary Allseits. ‘That’s about all I know. We are no longer under contract with Mark Flannagan. He did not go through with the deal.’”
“‘We’re going to return to business as usual until we decide something further. For right now, though, we’re just going to be running Shady Haven as we always have,’ Allseits said.”
“This came as a reprieve to Shady Haven resident Dolly Fetcko. ‘It means we can breathe a little bit easier, at least for another year or so,’ Fetcko said.”
‘Nocatee is a 30 square mile development underway in the northeast part of St. Johns County. 15 percent of the plan overlaps into Duval County. But the neighborhood isn’t cheap. And with the housing market, realtors are now rethinking their strategies.’
‘Nocatee is literally a town being built from the ground up. 14,000 to 15,000 homes are planned for the new town. Homes in Austin Park start at $325,000 and average $400,000. Combs says…she’ll have a tough time selling homes priced that high right now. ‘If they could come in with at least a notch lower that’s in the $50,000 to $300,000 range, I think they may have more buyers.’
‘Coast Financial Holdings Inc. has been hit with another class action lawsuit seeking a jury trial. The suit filed Monday in Tampa federal court alleges that directors and officers of the holding company and its Bradenton-based Coast Bank withheld information from shareholders that wound up cutting their stock value in half.’
‘When John Engelhart’s father bought a two-bedroom summer home in 1959, his intentions were to keep the Delray Beach house in the family for generations. But Engelhart said he can no longer afford the tax bill on the 1,500-square-foot waterfront house his father purchased for $43,200. It is now valued at $885,607. The 2006 tax bill: $19,647.’
‘BankAtlantic Bancorp Inc., the Fort Lauderdale-based savings bank holding company, is scaling back its work force as it adjusts to a slowdown in growth. The bank on Tuesday laid off 225 employees, representing about 8 percent of its work force.’
‘Chief Executive Officer Jarett Levan said the bank needed to reduce its work force because business has slowed in the past 12 months. He said Floridians have less money to put in banks and spend on banking services. As a result, BankAtlantic’s deposits haven’t grown at the same pace over the past year that it did in the previous five years. ‘This environment is more difficult than it has been in the past,’ he said.’
Down the road a piece [from nocatee] on US Hwy 1, is a place called Palancia…
It’s the same thing all over…..Over priced and over developed housing sitting everywhere [empty]…..Farther down the road, in Palm Coast, Fl. is a real disaster in the making……You can rent an empty [$250K] flipper house for $750/mo ….they’re everywhere…Palm Coast has over 2000 houses listed
“You can rent an empty [$250K] flipper house for $750/mo ….”
Same thing in Palm Beach County. Rent in IBIS (higher end golf community) is $1350 on a $400K plus house. You’d need a 100 year mortgage to match that payment. Add in taxes and insurance and forget about it!
A million year mortgage won’t help unless you have an interest rate below 4.05%. If you set the yearly payments to $16,200; you end up with that. Then, add in some (minor) principal payment on top of that and some major taxes too.
I was recently looking at buying a house in IBIS and the realtor said I could get $4000 a month for the winter season rental. I did not really believe her.
“the realtor said I could get $4000 a month for the winter season rental.”
IF you could find a seasonal renter…MAYBE. They are few and far between and prefer the ocean to the golf course. Smarter ones are starting to realize they can do a year lease and have the “vacation rental” all year cheaper than renting it for 5 months.
A 250K house that rents for 750$/month is a 90K house that is over valued.
James, your totally right and that is exactly where this market is headed. The bubble has burst.
An ad for Palm Coast, Fl…featured “”INVESTOR ALERT”"…4 bdrm, 3 bath house for sale @ $429K….
currently rented for $875/mo…..
>>>>I’M SERIOUS, IT REALLY WAS ADVERTISED IN THE DAYTONA NEWS PAPER
The other day, I was talking to one of the maintenance, guys here in our “UPSCALE” 1500 home gated community, in Ormond Bch, Fl…..He tells me, that the major developer in here has laid off 90% of the people in their closing department….from 30…down to 3….YES!!! His wife is one of the 3 surviving….Houses sitting 1/2 completed….maybe 50 of them…. empty houses finished…maybe 85….
Get this!!!! The developer hasn’t sold closed on a house in here this year yet!!!! REPEAT….THEY HAVEN’T SOLD A HOUSE THIS YEAR..YET!!!! Go to there website….ICI HOMES….they are a major private develeper/builder on the NE Coast of Florida, with over 400 houses sitting empty currently….
The other day, I was talking to one of the maintenance, guys here in our “UPSCALE” 1500 home gated community, in Ormond Bch, Fl…..He tells me, that the major developer in here has laid off 90% of the people in their closing department….from 30…down to 3….YES!!! His wife is one of the 3 surviving….Houses sitting 1/2 completed….maybe 50 of them…. empty houses finished…maybe 85….
Get this!!!! The developer hasn’t sold closed on a house in here this year yet!!!! REPEAT….THEY HAVEN’T SOLD A HOUSE THIS YEAR..YET!!!! Go to there website….ICI HOMES….they are a major private develeper/builder on the NE Coast of Florida, with over 400 houses sitting empty currently….
It’s not being built for people around here: http://www.nocatee.com/
That’s sad. Only someone not from Florida would believe those idyllic pictures, with nary a strip mall or billboard in sight. Even the town’s name sounds like it was dreamed up by an ad agency instructed to use soft, pleasing tones.
Anyone living in Jacksonville who can afford those prices already has a house in Ponte Vedra Beach. As a matter of personal preference I prefer Jacksonville over Orlando and south Florida, but like most of this state it’s not a high or even a medium-wage city.
Yes, but Jacksonville has a lot of beautiful areas, and seasons, too.
Yes, but Jacksonville has a lot of beautiful areas, and seasons, too.
Summer and almost summer? LoL
And everybody thinks this bust is gonna be contained to the subprime crowd.
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?
type=domesticNews&storyid=2007-03-29T184850Z_01_N28302234_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-SUBPRIME-FORECLOSURE.xml&src=rss&rpc=22
Got popcorn?
Damn-Link with Drudge Report didn’t work…
Back to the future.
Sounds as if Debbie got Frucced.
“Everyone knew the market was dead in late 2005. No one expected a happy ending at that point. It was game over.’”
I thought this board was the only ones who knew it died in 05
Can you say mortgage fraud? they bought several properties at twice the price the previous owner paid just six months prior and immediately defaulted on the loan.
I wonder if there was any cash back at closing or other funny stuff.
Welcome to Florida. Home of the con men.
Right big daddy, I think that case should be investigated to see if it was a arms length transaction . They should check out the appraiser/lender/realtor/prior owner /etc. Also anybody paying that high price in 2006 was either in la la land or a crook .Builders knew the market had been sliding by 2006 .
They are just beginning to peel back the outermost stinky layers of this rotten onion.
I think you will begin to hear about plenty of “winky” complicity among Realtors(tm), mortgage brokers, title and escrow, appraisers, etc here in Florida.
I hope some of these people are brought to justice and convicted for the fraud they perpetrated.
I suspect that seeing Realtor(tm) glamshots in real estate listings will become a thing of the past.
I wouldn’t want to hang a Wanted poster of myself out there if it were me:)
Just have to say that in my experience in buying and selling real estate in Florida in 2003 and late 2004, all of the players were pretty honest - reasonable lending (at least in 2003), accurate appraisals that were below the contract price, and realtors who let everyone know they were setting the market. At that time, it really was the buyers and sellers bidding the prices up to ridiculous levels. I assume that this might have changed in 2005-2006 as the prices got more and more out of control.
Prices in Florida probably need to be half of where they are today. I feel that prices might actually correct beyond this level though because of the incredible amount of speculation and building there. It’s really a shame as Florida used to be a wonderful place to live.
All of my coworkers are still loyal to the market. Perhaps it is wishful thinking, but regardless there is little point in arguing.
I could see the Tucson market dying before my very eyes during the summer of ‘05. Yet the local media was full of stories about median prices continuing to rise, and sales being brisk.
Slim ….do you think I will be able to buy a $850k (-ish todays price) Tucson Foothills home in a couple of years for $650k?…or is Tucson so unique as all the pros tell me….really is amazing how many CA/WA license plates I’ve seen the last two years….are these FBs who will leave?….will there continue to be a flow of $1.mm buyers or will that migration stop when they can’t unload their home in CA?…..just some thoughts…..Sideliner…….
650k?
You’ll be shopping scads of homes at below 500K. Heck, you’ll have the pick of the litter at $400K range.
Count on it.
Tucson is as messed up as Phx. And the rest of the state.
I know a decent amount of people who bought in Tucson in ‘04. Over half of them have already sold, or are still trying to sell - all at lower prices than they originally had figured they could get.
The other 1/2 don’t know what to do and are watching their “investments” lose value everyday.
From what I saw there, it was as bubbly a market as you could get - I’d bet that the flow of people from Cali will dry up and prices will continue to go way down.
I’d read about Shady Haven, (like any developer would use that name today…) and good for them~
Score one for the little guys…
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060130/NEWS/601300492
Interesting background article. Notice how the developer said, “Affordable housing doesn’t belong on the water.”
Wow, great PR work there! The property owners certainly have the right to sell their land if there is an able buyer, but it sounds like FL was always an affordable place for seniors. At least until Alan Green-scam and the speculators destroyed that. I’ll be glad to see FL home prices hammered as this unwinds. While good housing values are important, people need to realize that they must be affordable if an area is to be economically sustainable.
“The Realtors are being thrown in a big pot… with all the other people that put out a gazillion little signs…”
My sign is different. My product is different. It’s different here.
It is defamatory and unfair to lump “I lost 30 lbs in 30 days!” hustlers with out-and-out slimeballs like realtors.
Sounds as if the coppers are Fruccing with Debbie…
If you ask me.
was there any question about direction ?
Hickernell spent nearly $20 million to buy five apartment complexes during the first six months of 2006.”
It’s too bad you can’t short people, isn’t it?
I love that comment about his “courage.” I’m sure everyone who had to move out of those apartment complexes feels similarly.
When did “courage” become synonomous with “an excess of stupidity”?
Fruccing nightmare being a realtor in Florida, nowadays…
below the headline
gos spending = future taxes
Strong gains in construction of hotels, shopping centers and state and local government projects offset the 11th consecutive decline in residential construction.
“Even real-estate veteran E. Everette Huskey found himself with virtually no customers at an open house when his sign advertising the event got removed from along Wekiva Springs Road. ‘They’re hurting the Realtors,’ he said. ‘They’re hurting the homeowner.’”
Actually, you could make the argument that this is HELPING homeowners, and even Realtors, by keeping the neighborhood from looking like a fire-sale/carnival.
“Even real-estate veteran E. Everette Huskey,
Maybe he should’ve went with Max Power Seller real-estate veteran instead of his other made up name. Beer Me !!
“Beer Me”
OK. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kEuS-_wZIE
M78
They’re rationalizing. Nobody was coming to their open houses even with the signs; now they can shift the blame to some other fantasy.
“hurting the Realtors”….
Maybe Willie Nelson will play at a benefit.
In Warren county, KY the sign patrol is on the ball during election time. The local Sheriff “Peanuts” has been seen taking down other candidate’s signs. Good to know the local sheriff enforces the public right of way laws.
My folks sold their condo near Clearwater Beach to a GF in Jan 2006. One of their old neighbors stopped by their new home (in the affordable upper midwest) and said the GF is telling everyone, “Those people owe me a check for $150,000.”
Bwa ha ha ha ha!
I’ll bet he felt really smart at the time talking my folks down $1500 for a damaged kitchen cabinet.
“Those people owe me a check for $150,000.”
That’s interesting. How does he intend to collect?
That is an awesome tale! Owe him $150K? Sorry idiot, you should have seen this for the bubble that it is. What is it with all these GFs thinking their home or land is worth X amount of dollars? Geez, shut up already. Maybe your folks or you can buy it back for 50 cents on the dollar. I’ve heard tales of that from the early 90s bust in Southern Cal.
I’ll bet he felt really smart at the time talking my folks down $1500 for a damaged kitchen cabinet.
Karma x 100
Well, Mr. Bales, the reason that you are “being thrown in the pot” with all the other snake oil charlatans is because that’s where you belong.
The days of third-party gladhanding and puffery are over. Realtors will be the first to fall by the wayside as homeowners will quickly adapt to the internet, FSBO, and other available services to sell their homes. People are finding that they don’t need a non-vested third party to siphon off of their transactions…….6% my a$s.
The only thing that the Realtors(tm) had going for them was the MLS….which, as we all know, has been manipulated by the REIC for it’s own gains.
I suspect we will see a lot of Golden Jackets hanging with other yard sale items here in Florida very soon…
double bingo
you can get a mort and save ? 1/2 % by clicking 4 times
selling RE yourself is simple
why do people pay to get a sales manekin
If it were .6%, I don’t think we’d all be complaining quite so hard. *g*
“‘Hickernell had to have a lot of courage to pay that much at that time”
-There is a fine line between courage and ignorance.
Why?
It’s not his money> He is just gambling with other people’s money. IF it was his money, there wouldn’t be any forclosure actions.
The LENDERS are trying to recover the bad debts. There is probably some under the table action here.
“The Realtors are being thrown in a big pot”
This image that comes to mind is of old hag Greenspank chanting “double double, toil and trouble, realtors burned by my housing bubble”. This as he continues to stir the pot by opening his silly mug at every opportunity.
I just know Weird Al is watching our every move…
They sould hang that bastard Greenspan on a wooden cross. Everybody in the financial world looked up to him as the second coming anyway.
Cross of Gold, would be more ironic.
‘When John Engelhart’s father bought a two-bedroom summer home in 1959, his intentions were to keep the Delray Beach house in the family for generations. But Engelhart said he can no longer afford the tax bill on the 1,500-square-foot waterfront house his father purchased for $43,200. It is now valued at $885,607. The 2006 tax bill: $19,647.’
Sounds a lot like what happened in CA that gave rise to Prop 13.
Delray is an especially bad example: 50% upperclass, 50% underclass.
I was astonished the last I was there, clearing out my grandparents’ winter house.. All the 1500 sf stucco/concrete block bungalows with hurricane shutters and raised foundations were being replaced by homes that had 2 1/2 stories, lots of windows, plywood walls and wooden siding down to the ground. That stuff is going to get vacuumed out of there someday.
The model of what is an appropriate dwelling for this climate has been perverted atrociously.
“plywood walls and wooden siding down to the ground”
It’s wood look, not wood walls. If anything it’s support board for stucco screens. You can’t build wood frame houses in Palm Beach County without a special permit that’s impossible to obtain.
Also, windows are probably hurricane resistant glass.
IMHO 2006 was the year of the shady deals ,cash backs and incentives deals were nothing but fraudulent transactions . I saw another one of those signs the other day on a telephone pole advertising ,”Investor Looking For A Apprentice -20 thousand a month .” The sub-prime lenders were the targets for those crooked deals and they made those loans without blinking a eye . Sub-prime lending /refinancing was crooked .I think it’s a step in the right direction to investigate those loan packages from sub-prime rather than just rack it off as bad lending .
Has anyone ever called one of those “seeking apprentice” phone numbers? I would, but I’m too cheap to make an unnecessary long distance call.
They talk about them on that San Diego ‘RE investors’ board. Generally, it’s a scammer looking for a bagholder who’ll agree to use his credit rating and signature to get them both into a deal.
But some of the ‘investors’ posting there claim to use these bandit signs to recruit legmen who will scout out distressed homeowners. If the ‘investor’ ends up making a deal with the homeowner, the ‘investor’ will pay the legman a finder’s fee.
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/sdcia/vpost?id=1794704
From the SDCIA forum classifieds: “Cash for your [good] Credit.” Sounds like a blatant solicitation for mortgage fraud from one of the “senior” members of the forum. Those guys must leave a slime trail everywhere they go.
Those signs started appearing almost a year ago in Gainesville.
Reality has not set in here. Almost no news about the rest of Florida, although the bank officers (one of whom I talked to when closing out my retail bank account–Electric Orange for me) do know. I talked to a mortgage broker too, and she knows the market is bad but is still quite optimistic, hoping for a turnaround.
The Campus View condos seem to have stopped construction after they laid the foundations. I guess nobody’s buying. They haven’t even completely sold the last completed one … oops.
Oxford Terrace II is going up at a breakneck pace. Crappy construction with knotty pine. Hope you enjoy your alligator, GF’s…
IMHO 2006 was the year of the shady deals ,cash backs and incentives deals were nothing but fraudulent transactions
Just like when Hitler was putting teenagers in the flak towers to man the 88mm AA guns around Berlin in ‘45, while the upper Nazi hierarchy started runnin’ like rats to Bavaria and SA with their looted treasures.
The end is near.
Good WW2 analogy. The smart (and often times crooked) money is long gone and the sheep hang around for the shearing. Amazing, how the human race never seems to learn. Deals done in 2006 will be looked back on like we now look at pets.com. This extends to office and other commercial deals as well. All classes are cash flow negative if purchased in 2006.
This is a condo that was converted on Hollywood beach that I used to rent for $1500/month. The offered it to me for $390K. Look at the price plummet:
3901 S Ocean Dr APT 5G, Hollywood, FL 33019 — beds, — baths, — sq ft
Close
What is Make Me Move?
ZESTIMATE™: $398,806 What’s this?
The Value Range is the high and low estimated market value for which Zillow values a home. The more information, the smaller the range, and the more accurate the Zestimate. See data coverage and accuracy table
Value Range: $354,937 - $474,579
30-day change: -$46,684 Last updated: 03/19/2007
chaeck again aftet this posting- maybe it will drop next week-
a conversion , wow stinky
And there appears to be 112 more units in the vicinity for sale.
‘In Florida, real estate busts are nearly as predictable as the state’s sunshine and thunderstorms. Now, lots of speculators who bet on the condo market are taking a hit.’
This debacle just reeks of swindle, from every angle. Hickernell and his merry brood should just take out an ad that reads “Wanna be indited for fraud? Ask me how!”
—
from the article
To make matters worse, Hickernell and his wife, Mary Lynn Desjarlais, find their names linked to Daniel Prewett, a felon who served time in a New York state prison for insurance fraud in the 1980s and was recently arrested in Italy on money laundering charges related to a cocaine deal.
In December 2005, Hickernell bought the 46-unit Bermuda Apartments on Osprey Avenue in Sarasota from Prewett for $10.23 million, court records show. Prewett had paid just $5 million nine months earlier.
Hickernell was not always careful about whom he did business with, and Prewett is a good example of that, Dear said.
Though Prewett was arrested in October on drug-related money laundering charges and is being sued by a half-dozen investors for allegedly misappropriating money, Hickernell and his wife have continued to do business with Prewett.
Hickernell is now marketing Prewett’s Bay Palm Resort on St. Pete Beach, while his wife has served as Prewett’s title agent on scores of real estate deals since the late 1990s.
Neither Hickernell nor Desjarlais returned calls seeking comment.
—
That explains why Hickernell and his partners are beginning to default on their loans, but it does not explain why Hickernell paid $10.23 million for the Bermuda Apartments just nine months after Prewett bought the same property for $5 million.
“That’s a pretty big jump,” Dear said. “I’ve been doing this a lot over the years, and I’ve never seen a property double in value that fast.”
It is impossible, especially at that point in time, Rutstein said.
Dear, Rutstein and other experts contacted by the Herald-Tribune said they were equally surprised by what happened next.
In early 2006, Hickernell told the Herald-Tribune that he would begin selling converted Bermuda apartments for $300,000 to $400,000 per unit.
True to his word, Hickernell sold his first three units for an average price of $366,523, court records show. But sales dried up in the latter half of 2006, and it was not until November that Bermuda units began selling again.
It was then that two California investors, John Couch and Christopher Woods, appeared on the scene and bought five Bermuda condo units at an average price of $659,200 — nearly twice the average per unit price paid by the first three buyers.
Couch and Woods could not be reached for comment.
Dear and other experts contacted by the Herald-Tribune are convinced that the two Californians paid way too much.
“I would not want to be the lenders holding the mortgages on those properties,” Dear said.
I do not know the Hickernells, but I can say Dan Prewett is a good guy. I read one of his clients the Cohens, really thought they were going to get 164% return and I am sorry, I see few victims in the entire case. Dan’s past, if true, is only mentioned to convict him this time. No one is saying how much time he did and the 1980 thing can be greatly convoluted. If the case were solid, not sure we would hear much. And you all know that is not allowed in court. I lost a million in value due to flippers–I had zip to do with them. I know people far more deserving of a Grand Jury–but basically I find the real cons have left the state. Most are lawyers. I would not say much unless you personally know a person. To be frustrated in general, yes. But not to throw darts at facts we really do not know. I do know everyone was flipping and made $100K because their friend did. Even my lawn guy smiled he made $100k. I have not seen him around since.
“‘The Realtors are being thrown in a big pot, if you will, with all the other people that put out a gazillion little signs [such as] ‘Lose 30 pounds in 30 days,’ said Jeff Bales, a Lake Mary real-estate agent.”
Only realtors are allowed to scam people, not the people they sold houses to who now have to run lose 30lbs in 30days home businesses to make up the difference on their ARM adjustment. Lose 30lbs in 30days signs are ugly, whereas Open House signs are beautiful, and not only that, but are good for the economy whereas the scum that run home businesses are, well, just that, and in the eyes of a realtor shouldn’t be allowed to do that. Who do those people think they are running a home business. Man those people have balls. Can’t you see we’re trying to run a real estate scam here and you’re clogging up all the space that should be used for Open House signs with useless home business weight loss programs. Some people, I’ll tell ya. The nerve of those other business people.
Realtors being thrown in a big pot? Reminds me of lobsters meeting their demise…
Oh, no Realtor-Tail. Yuck!
great point…and come to think about it, most realtors could afford to lose 30 or so pounds so they should be calling instead of bitching.
Oh they will, they will … it’s called the “No money, no credit, no car” diet. Ramen and long walks to the bus stop (it’s always a long walk to the bus stop in exurbia). mmm, burn, baby, burn.
“The days of third-party gladhanding and puffery are over. Realtors will be the first to fall by the wayside as homeowners will quickly adapt to the internet, FSBO, and other available services to sell their homes. People are finding that they don’t need a non-vested third party to siphon off of their transactions…….6% my a$s.”
I disagree. I wish it were true, but I’m not holding my breath. I sold my home last year and tried fsbo first. I put ads in the paper, registered with fsbo.com, craigslist, yahoo real estate, you name I used it. I got 1 call in 3 months and nothing came of it.
Then I bit the bullet and listed with a realtwhore at 4.5% and also raised the price by 5% to compensate. Damn thing sold in 6 weeks. Of course my agent didn’t do anything for me other than a sign in the front and an MLS listing. But where I live people just don’t get it that they don’t need a realtwhore to buy a home. They will blindly go to the nearest Centure 21 office and get chauffered from home to home by an “expert” in the field. If you mention that they are actually paying an extra 4-6% of the price they come back with the “oh no, the seller pays comission” stupidity.
We also have to realize that about 30% of people NEVER use the internet. So 30% of your potential buyers will never go to craigslist, never go to fsbo.com, never go to zillow. This will change over time, but I don’t expect the MLS to go away for a looooong time.
Here is a Reuters article pulled off of Drudge. Love the headline! Looks like this baby is creeping into the McMansioned generica, like we predicted.
Mortgage crisis hits million-dollar homes
Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:21pm ET
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Sheriff Leo McGuire presides over foreclosure auctions in Bergen County, New Jersey, where the bidding for a home reached $1.2 million last June — a record for one of the wealthiest counties in the nation.
Homes sold on the auction block for as much as $852,000 this month — more than quadruple the median home price in the United States. County officials believe they are close to setting another record soon.
In Troy, Michigan, Dorothy Guzek, a credit counselor since 1988, has also seen the changing face of foreclosure….
“Because of the financing that was possible, so many people bought the bigger house, the million-dollar house with the bowling alley or the tennis court outside,” says Guzek, who works for GreenPath Debt Solutions, a nonprofit service based in Farmington Hills, Michigan. “People across all income brackets are having financial hardship.”
For those on the frontlines of the growing U.S. mortgage crisis, these are the early signs that the explosion of subprime loans made to mostly poorer borrowers is reaching higher ground. The damage is hitting homes financed through jumbo loans for more than $400,000 and so-called Alt-A loans that are a notch above subprime and a step below prime….
http://tinyurl.com/2d9kpv
Wow a year and look at the strupid fools who once thought they were geniuses.
Are the fools who called us “bitter renters” homeless now? I thought they let homeless use the computers at the library? Maybe they are still in the “drinking myself into a stupor” phase.
Here is a Reuters article pulled off of Drudge.
Mortgage crisis hits million-dollar homes
Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:21pm ET
…For those on the frontlines of the growing U.S. mortgage crisis, these are the early signs that the explosion of subprime loans made to mostly poorer borrowers is reaching higher ground. The damage is hitting homes financed through jumbo loans for more than $400,000 and so-called Alt-A loans that are a notch above subprime and a step below prime….
In the last three months, the percentage of foreclosures for U.S. homes valued at more than $750,000 has climbed to 2.5 percent, the highest since early 2005, when RealtyTrac, a online marketplace for foreclosed properties, began tracking data. The overall rate of foreclosures also is on pace to increase by a third this year.
“Everyone’s looking at subprime. The rock they aren’t looking under are the adjustable rate mortgages and teaser rates and low money-down loans,” said Mark Kiesel, a portfolio manager for Pacific Investment Management Co., the world’s biggest bond manager. “It’s going to affect prime as well.”
http://tinyurl.com/2d9kpv
My humble apologies about the double posting.
Don’t know if anyone saw Bill Gross’s most recent Investment Outlook, but :
http://www.pimco.com/LeftNav/Featured+Market+Commentary/IO/2007/IO+April+2007.htm
Affordability, affordability, affordability is his basic theme. And to get back to affordability, you need to either have interest rate drops or price drops.
In any event, it’s not a bullish article on housing.
Interest rate drops will NOT increase affordability. The ONLY thing that will increase affordability is for prices to go down relative to wages.
The Dow is falling YET AGAIN this week—the wheels on the roller coaster are getting oil thrown on em–this ride’s going a lot faster than I thought!
OMG …. Dow is down 9 points so far today!!!!
Seriously people, let’s not go overboard here. DOW just had a huge day a few days ago. Excluding the peaks and vallies, the DOW has been relatively “stable” over the past few months.
“valleys”
“A broker who sells waterfront condos and single- family homes on Anna Maria Island and Longboat Key was unenthused Monday about the market. ‘All of the listings are coming down in price. They’re not even moving even though they’re coming down,’ said Phillip Saadi, a broker in New Tampa. ‘Why? I don’t know.’”
Mr. Saadi an all other realtors (TM) in FL, allow me to let y’all in on a secret.
These condo closets will not start to move until the lenders are good and fed up with swelling REO inventory. There will not be any meaningful declines in prices until then. Look for these lower prices around the fall of this year.
Meanwhile, if you need income, there is always telemarketing and Walmart.
Got 10% down?
My folks had a place on Anna Marie Island a few years back.
1987-1988 they bought for about 100-110 and it was a duplex about one-block from the beach. They did a lot of improvements- my 60 year old father and mother actually sided the place themselves-my father was a proud man who worked with his hands and knew how to do everything- there was no way in hell he was going to pay some guy to only have shoddy work. He was always doing stuff because, “it makes the neighborhood better and a better neighborhood raises the value of my home.”
In any event, they kept the place for about 10 years and sold it sometime around 2000 for about 250-300K. I believe that my father actually felt a sense of guilt because he really did not think it was worth that much- but he did put a lot of work into it, so it seemed fair.
2005-2006 my mother sends me a listing wherein the place is listed for 750K- I laughed, to me, it wasn’t even worth the 250-300K my father got.
Hey, when money is free, who cares what it cost.
Now that money is not free, i.e.. you better bring at least 10% for a down payment, people will be more stingy with what they will be willing to pay.
every 20 years
some of the oil patch has firm RE prices