April 1, 2007

Bits Bucket And Craigslist Finds For April 1, 2007

Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.




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148 Comments »

Comment by jmf
2007-04-01 05:36:45

April Fool - The Simpsons :-)
don´t be fooled today…….

Nova Star Financial / riding the wave

http://immobilienblasen.blogspot.com/

Comment by Left LA Behind
 
Comment by jmf
2007-04-01 07:45:23

“Dark porcelain” project offers self-installed plumbing-based Internet access

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., April 1, 2007 - Google Inc. (NASDAQ: GOOG) today announced the launch of Google TiSP (BETA)™, a free in-home wireless broadband service that delivers online connectivity via users’ plumbing systems. The Toilet Internet Service Provider (TiSP) project is a self-installed, ad-supported online service that will be offered entirely free to any consumer with a WiFi-capable PC and a toilet connected to a local municipal sewage system.

“We’ve got that whole organizing-the-world’s-information thing more or less under control,” said Google Co-founder and President Larry Page, a longtime supporter of so-called “dark porcelain” research and development. “What’s interesting, though, is how many different modalities there are for actually getting that information to you - not to mention from you.”

For years, data carriers have confronted the “last hundred yards” problem for delivering data from local networks into individual homes. Now Google has successfully devised a “last hundred smelly yards” solution that takes advantage of preexisting plumbing and sewage systems and their related hydraulic data-transmission capabilities. “There’s actually a thriving little underground community that’s been studying this exact solution for a long time,” says Page. “And today our Toilet ISP team is pleased to be leading the way through the sewers, up out of your toilet and - splat - right onto your PC.”

Users who sign up online for the TiSP system will receive a full home self-installation kit, which includes a spindle of fiber-optic cable, a TiSP wireless router, installation CD and setup guide. Home installation is a simple matter of GFlushing™ the fiber-optic cable down to the nearest TiSP Access Node, then plugging the other end into the network port of your Google-provided TiSP wireless router. Within sixty minutes, the Access Node’s crack team of Plumbing Hardware Dispatchers (PHDs) should have your internet connection up and running.

“I couldn’t be more excited about, and am only slightly grossed out by, this remarkable new product,” said Marissa Mayer, Google’s Vice President of Search Products and User Experience. “I firmly believe TiSP will be a breakthrough product, particularly for those users who, like Larry himself, do much of their best thinking in the bathroom.”

Interested consumers, contractually obligated partners and deeply skeptical and quietly competitive backbiters can learn more about TiSP at http://www.google.com/tisp/install.html.

About Google Inc.
Google’s innovative search technologies connect millions of people around the world with information every day. Founded in 1998 by Stanford Ph.D. wannabes Larry Page and Sergey Brin, Google today is a top web property in all major global markets. Google’s targeted advertising program provides businesses of all sizes with measurable results, while enhancing the overall web experience for users. Google is headquartered in Silicon Valley with offices throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia. For more information, visit http://www.google.com.

###

Media Contact:
Sunny Gettinger
Google Inc.
sunnyg@google.com
650-253-4713

 
 
Comment by GotRocks
2007-04-01 05:37:47

How about this for a bumper sticker (in bubble-land):

In the background show a bunch of bubbles gently floating around, and then , in the foreground, in big black letters: “I RENT”

Comment by Pen
2007-04-01 08:08:38

You should have some printed up and try to get them selling via 7-11s, Circle Ks, etc.

It worked for the pet rock.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-04-01 05:44:09

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.”

Alexis de Tocqueville

Comment by palmetto
2007-04-01 06:21:26

Maybe the housing bubble is a good thing for American overall. I was reading an article this morning about NAFTA and GATT as it relates to Circuit City’s recent firing of higher wage workers and how the American economy has been completely trashed by corporated interests and the “Free Trade” crowd. There ain’t no free. America has paid dearly for “Free Trade”, while Wall Street has profited immensely.

Now that many will no longer have homes and can no longer access credit, the true state of economic affairs is laid bare for the average American. They can look around and see the hordes of illegal immigrants they are supporting, the crappy Chinese products (got contaminated wheat gluten?), the jobs outsourced overseas, etc. Not to mention the fact that they can’t get out from under bankruptcy so easily. The housing bubble was the last hurrah. Now all the warts can show up and pock the American landscape. That’s actually a good thing, IMHO. I guarantee you that Joe Sixpack will all of a sudden wake up and say “Wha’ hoppen?”

Comment by Suspicious 2
2007-04-01 07:36:10

Agreed. The immigrants coming into this country serve to keep the labor prices down. My family immigrated here about a hundred years ago (Irish). So I think I understand why they are coming. It’s the politians who, at the bidding of their corporate masters, are playing us against one another.
Joe Sixpack is severly drugged and hypnotised and will not wake up until they lose their job and can’t get another one.
I believe this day is coming. And may be here sooner than most think.

Comment by sm_landlord
2007-04-01 07:51:15

Well, how about these jobs? From Today’s LATimes:

The rich need more servants. How does $80K a year sound?

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Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 08:15:42

“How does $80K a year sound?”

Sounds like not enough to buy a decent home around LA…

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-04-01 08:42:49

I’d guess my Guatamalan (there goes any potential political asperations for me) Cleaning Lady pulled in $80k a year…

We nicknamed her:

“The Queen of Clean”

She could wurlitzer through 4 houses a day.

Still to this day, the hardest working person I know.

 
Comment by John Law
2007-04-01 09:11:37

“They can look around and see the hordes of illegal immigrants they are supporting”

it goes both ways. immigrants pay billions into SS and will never see a dime of that money. sure they compete and keep wages down, they also help keep prices down for consumers. there are more consumers than there are people whose wages are kept down by immigrants. they also do jobs that we wouldn’t take. yes I realize that americans don’t take them because the wages are low because of lots of immigrant labor. however, how many americans would take a job bending over all day picking a vegetable even if it did pay alot? we are a college-centric society.

 
Comment by in Colorado
2007-04-01 09:46:22

FWIW, after the raids at the meat packing plants in Greeley, CO, there was no shortage of Americans applying for the suddenly vacated jobs.

There are plenty of hidden costs associated with illegal immigration: health care, education, etc.

I fail to see how importing poverty is good for the US in general.

 
Comment by in Colorado
2007-04-01 09:50:28

Another thing to keep in mind is that what consumers pay for products and services is affected by supply and demand and not so much by cost. Vendors will charge what the market will bear, If they can cut their costs they will only pass on those savings if they have to (to under cut the competition).

 
Comment by scdave
2007-04-01 10:01:29

I agree with much of what you say John except for the “immigrants pay billions into SS” part….I won’t mince the numbers but from where I see it (Silicon Valley) they receive far more than they pay in….Our County hospital is state of the art and rivals the best in the country…..

 
Comment by palmetto
2007-04-01 10:05:19

Agreed, Comment. I also fail to see how importing poverty is good for the US in general.

Personally, I like to wurlitzer through my own apartment, housecleaning is good exercise.

 
Comment by spike66
2007-04-01 10:12:49

“There are more consumers than there are people whose wages are kept down by immigrants.”

Got any proof for that statement? I bet not. Also, anyone who is an “immigrant” is here legally, and if working, has Green Card or HB-1 visa status. Illegal aliens are just that…criminals who have broken American laws. It is not possible to be an “illegal immigrant”. One is either an immigrant or an illegal alien.

“They also do jobs that we wouldn’t take. ”

Really? Got any evidence for this?? So you think Americans will not do construction? When the INS raided meat packing plants and sent the illegals packing, Americans lined up for the jobs. Same in New Bedford, where an INS raid on a military uniform factory, had Americans lined up the next day. This “jobs Americans won’t take” is the mantra of corporate interests who need a little political cover for driving down American wages until there is no arb. between American serfs and Chinese or Indian peasants.
If Circuit City can fire “high pay” workers making $11 an hour,and replace them with those making $8–you can be sure that unemployment is much, much highter than anything the government is willing to admit.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-04-01 10:22:52

Used to play the ponies and it wasn’t good for my wallet, but amazing for the mind…

The Lingua Franca of the horseplayer set is The Daily Racing Form, a historical cacophony of mis-information, with enough truth scattered around, to decipher, somewhat.

Here’s a racing term to describe a thoroughbred that was once a good to great horse, and has seen better days, now in claiming (for sale) races, dropping down…

The term?

Past Class

 
Comment by implosion
2007-04-01 11:35:42

Most overestimate the % of people over 25 who have a college degree. From Wikipedia, Educational Attainment,
% who have at, or above the given level.

HS 84.6 %
Some College 52.5 %
Bachelor’s Degree 27.2 %
Master’s Degree 8.9 %
Doctorate or Professional Degree 3 %

Check out the discussion under Race. Interesting phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2007-04-01 16:13:22

I guess the “educated” congregate in the certain areas…probably where the best paying jobs are. In the 80s it felt like MBAs were a dime a dozen in the Northeast. A BS/BA really didn’t get you that far in Beantown.

 
Comment by Paul
2007-04-01 18:29:24

FWIW, after the raids at the meat packing plants in Greeley, CO, there was no shortage of Americans applying for the suddenly vacated jobs.

Lemme guess: Realtors and Mortgage Brokers?

:-)

 
 
Comment by REhobbyist
2007-04-01 11:29:20

Why can’t we clean our own damned houses? I see this as a big problem. We make a very good living but we clean our own house and maintain our own yard. I have stay-at-home mom relatives who hire decorators, gardeners, handymen, housekeepers, even people to help their kids with college applications! What in the hell do they do with their time?

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Comment by CA renter
2007-04-02 01:29:00

Contrary to popular belief, stay-at-home parents actually have MORE work than their “work outside” counterparts.

The kids (and parents) are home **all day** and the parents have to cook more meals, shop more, clean more and teach/entertain the kids more than “working” parents.

Try it. You’ll have a very different opinion of what these parents do after you do their job for a couple of months in a row.

I’ve had jobs both inside & outside of the home, as have many of my friends, acquaintances & co-workers. I have yet to meet a single person **who’s done both** say that a SAHP (stay-at-home parent) does less work.

 
Comment by Steve
2007-04-03 18:08:38

I’ll say it…….the stay at home stuff keeps you busy, but it isn’t rocket science.
Better yet….try being both at the same time, like when the ex-wife was going for her RN degree, and I was watching the kids during the day, then working 50-60 hour weeks on second shift. Watching the kids didn’t give me high blood pressure and migranes.

 
 
 
 
Comment by radon
2007-04-01 09:54:37

It sounds like Tocquville stole a quote.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can exist only until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse (defined as a liberal gift) out of the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship. —-Alexander Fraser Tyler

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2007-04-01 05:45:09

Interesting trend on Craigslist rentals in the Tampa Bay and Sarasota areas: more and more condos for rent offer an option to buy.

 
Comment by Curt
2007-04-01 05:52:59

It’s official!!
The bottom has been reached!!!
It’s all uphill from here, let the bidding wars begin!!!!

april fools

 
Comment by Ben
2007-04-01 05:56:47

Here are the results of the Real Estate Auction in Key West yesterday

http://www.keysnews.com/298608266587455.bsp.htm


“Has real estate really gone down that much?” Camp asked after no one bid on a Third Street triplex that started out and sold for $600,000.

“Yes,” someone in the crowd retorted.

Comment by palmetto
2007-04-01 06:02:52

Can’t link to that, but it doesn’t surprise me that the Keys are having some difficulty. Used to be a great place to go to get away from South Florida for a few days. Like many places in Florida, it has been ruined by the bubble, for the time being, anyway. Hurricanes don’t help, either, but the Keys have always been vulnerable to hurricanes.

 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-04-01 06:42:51

“”It’s a buyers market and everything is shifting and changing,” Anderson said, adding that buyers have “gotten off the bus.”

“They’re going to walk around the block before they get back on,” he said.”

This guy must drive the short bus.

Comment by Mugsy
2007-04-01 07:12:34

With the insane taxes and windstorm insuance I don’t think that many of the folks serving drinks on Duval street for $10 an hour will be buying anytime soon.

When I lived at MM 27 (Cudjoe Key) you could buy a 900 sq. ft. stilt house for $50K. These same homes now go for $450K. The bright side is that last year they were going for $550K :)

Comment by Ben
2007-04-01 08:52:00

Well if they every get back to $50k I get a bunch of them

I can’t believe I was stupid enough to even think of buying down here, when I moved here last year.

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Comment by Ben
2007-04-01 08:52:57

I should probably read over my post before I post it

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-04-01 06:06:24

“The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis.”

Dante Aligheri

 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-04-01 06:14:24

Not sure but I got to believe the ratio of inventory (single family plus condos) to total households in an area is an indicator of local support for a market. Using the data on Sigalarm’s site I got the following for a few selected cities in Northwest Florida, Florida statewide, and California statewide:

Pensacola 15%
Fort Walton Beach 12%
Destin 39%
Panama City 75%
Florida 6%
California 2%

The above ratios show how dependent this area is on out of state buyers to support the market. If the boomers don’t hurry up and get down here NWF will have a severe meltdown as there is no way in hell locals can pick up the slack.

All I can say after is that if you are a RE player in NWF don’t wait around for the authorities to announce the RE disaster this summer—get your KY while supplies last!!

Comment by aladinsane
2007-04-01 06:31:14

Never really thought of myself in a Van Halen vein, but here goes…

Jump Back, what’s that sound?

Watch it come full blast, going down

Hot fool, burning through the revenue

Model citizen zero discipline (I didn’t make that part up)

Don’t you know it’ll go down continually?

you’ll lose the house in the downturn

Get ready to be a renter (maybe)

Panama City (yeah i’m a 75%’er, so what)

Panama City (there’s still 25% that haven’t lost their minds, yet)

 
Comment by sigalarm
2007-04-01 08:36:01

Neat idea - household data is from the 2000 census, so its about 6 years out of date at the moment, but I have yet to find a more up to date set of data for the US.

 
Comment by dennisd
2007-04-01 09:31:28

P’cola,

Another way of stating this is “1 property for sale for every y households”, correct? For example, using Pensacola as an example, there is 1 property for sale for approximately every 15 households.

A few months ago, I was curious about the ratio of properties for sale compared to households in the Pensacola area. Using Census data, MLS listings, and conservatively estimating the FSBO properties for sale; my calculations also resulted in about 15%.

You’re correct, there is no way that the locals can absorb that amount of supply. The only fix is deep price reductions to stimulate demand.

Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-04-01 10:08:13

Yeah, you could use the reciprocal and present the data as “1 property for sale for every 1.33 households in Panama City Beach” for instance.

 
Comment by Shendi
2007-04-01 10:20:52

More like 1 property for sale for every 6.7 households for Pensacola (1/6.7 = 15%).
For Panama, P’cola’s numbers are correct, it is 3 houses for sale for every 4 households.
For Destin: 2 for every 5.

 
 
 
Comment by lep
2007-04-01 06:44:55

Some anecdotes.

In Tampa (Wesley Chapel), I have friends that have been trying to sell their home for about a year now. They started out at 330K, after many reductions, finally lowered it to 275K and got an offer for 265K. Their house really is nicer than most at this price range, so I’d say their situation is indicative of the local market. Anyway, the buyer has now backed out, coming to the realization that she couldn’t make the payments (100% financing, yada, yada, yada). My friends are in a really bad situation since their new house has just been finished and they can’t get quality financing without the proceeds from selling their first house. They are going to try the liar loan route now. (I gave subtle warnings about the bubble a year ago, and he recited the familiar line about housing prices never going down. I pointed out a specific example of prices going down significantly in CA, but to no avail)

Down in Fort Lauderdale (Weston), my in-laws have been trying to sell a 2/2 townhouse for over a year. Despite my emphatic warnings and explanations, they have been following the market down. They started at 300K and are now at 269K. They got an offer for 255K but countered for 263K(even knowing that the potential buyer was approved for only 260K) and lost the buyer. They have just got a second offer for the asking price minus the closing costs. The buyer apparently doesn’t have enough cash to cover a 5% down payment plus closing costs.

These first hand accounts really do tell me that only the most stupid (and stretched) money is left over and that even these people are starting to catch on. Look out below.

Comment by palmetto
2007-04-01 06:49:12

Thanks, lep, I find Florida bubble anecdotes fascinating. After yesterday’s shocks to the insurance market in Florida, I think we’ll start seeing some major default action. In Florida, it isn’t just a matter of mortgage payments, it is also the insurance and tax costs.

Comment by lep
2007-04-01 07:19:19

Sorry for being out of the loop. What were the shocks to the insurance market?

Comment by Houstonstan
2007-04-01 08:33:02

Property insurance in Florida. Many private companies have withdrawn from the market due to Hurricane risk. (# of Hurricanes, # of properties nearer water, increased property values = potential higher payouts).

Only the insurer of last resort is left servicing the market and they have hiked rates. What makes this worse is having insurance is a condition of the mortgage.

The Perfect storm is hitting Florida: Decling property prices, elimination of market demand by increased mortgage qualification requirements, payment re-adjustments , increasing local taxes, increased insurance.

A lot of people are finding out that RE is not the asset they thought it was but a liability that they will ahve difficulty in servicing.

in some ways, having a major Hurricane hitting Florida will be a financial blessing for a number of FB’s. Assuming they have solid insurance and the insurance company can stay solvent to pay out.

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Comment by Shendi
2007-04-01 10:33:56

“A lot of people are finding out that RE is not the asset they thought it was but a liability that they will have difficulty in servicing.”

This insight is applicable to all real estate bubble areas including CA. Forget home insurance here in CA, the property taxes alone are breaking the backs of those that stretched the maximum to buy a condo.
Someone here pointed out that it will be the instant noodles and the like for these people. It looks that way - but the sad thing is people still hold on to the white elephant they bought and try to save pennies on food etc.
Any thoughts on how the retail business such as restaurants, entertainment, clothing etc. will fare when the FBs try to hang on their white elephant?

 
 
 
 
Comment by GotRocks
2007-04-01 06:51:57

“I gave subtle warnings about the bubble a year ago…”

Like you ever had a chance, since the broker said…

And who’s to be believed (back then, that is).

Comment by lep
2007-04-01 07:08:37

Yeah, I suppose authority trumps logic for many people. I feel kind of bad, maybe I should have been more blunt and forceful, but I shy away from discussing financial matters with friends most of the time.

Of course, thanks to this blog, I’m much more knowledgeable than a year ago. Oh, if I only knew …

Comment by JP
2007-04-01 07:54:25

I doubt blunt and forceful would work. In fact has it worked for anybody on this blog?

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Comment by uptick
2007-04-01 08:50:35

Blunt and forceful would just make for an angry FB-to-be. The ones that listened, had, in fact, already made their mind up to wait. People hear what they want to hear.

 
Comment by SolvingADream
2007-04-01 09:28:49

Actually if you get “blunt and forceful” people just view you as a freak. I just casually mention (in just a few words) what market cycles I have seen before, and that I believe are coming again. The reaction is always the same ….blank stares.

 
 
Comment by Houstonstan
2007-04-01 08:44:41

Don’t feel too bad. People may hear but not listen.
Warning of bad news has no payback.

If you were wrong even on the short term, you’d get blamed by them for missing out on investment.

Look on the bright side. They are going to learn about finances the hard way : experience.

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfruede
2007-04-01 17:36:26

I was blunt and forceful in warning my sister, in 2003, that my just-married neice and her husband (both in their early 20s) should not buy a house (100% financing with an ARM). If or when they become FBs and ask me for a bailout, I’ll decline, on the basis that I warned them, bluntly and forcefully, that they were making a huge mistake. Believe me, there are times when ‘blunt and forceful’ is justified and appropriate, like saving someone from becoming an FB.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2007-04-01 07:04:56

Your in-laws are mighty stoooopid…..

I hope they learned their Lesson and take the only offer they have today, and drop everything in their lives and get that damn house sold.

But then again…..will they hold out for $240K? $230K? $199K?

Comment by lep
2007-04-01 07:16:40

They’re going to take it, but the buyer is going on a cruise, so I’m hoping she doesn’t come in contact with any bubbleheads. They may be some of the only people who can afford non-house-related luxuries these days:)

Comment by sartre
2007-04-01 08:30:09

“The buyer apparently doesn’t have enough cash to cover a 5% down payment plus closing costs”…
yet she is going on a cruise… Lep, thanks for reminding us how we got here.

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Comment by lurker
2007-04-01 07:43:08

Believe it or not, that is close to late 2004 pricing that your in-laws got. I sold my house to someone who sold their 2/2 townhouse in Weston for $260,000 back then (they had bought it in 2003 for $160,000). Of course, that was in one of the newer townhome communities (meaning less than 2 years old).

Of course, the price really needs to go back to at least early 2003.

Comment by CA renter
2007-04-02 01:37:55

Early 2001 (preferably earlier than that), or you’ll be catching a falling knife, IMHO.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 08:20:29

“The buyer apparently doesn’t have enough cash to cover a 5% down payment plus closing costs.”

Why can’t such a buyer get an FHA loan, and find someone to “gift” the downpayment?

Comment by geeah
2007-04-01 09:19:32

I don’t know a whole lot, but don’t FHA loans have a cap on the value of the homes you can buy with them? or am I confusing them with HUD programs?

Also, I think the FHA isn’t the “bailout” option many people think it is as the process is really slow and the approval processes are pretty tight (getting things in inspections corrected before the transaction goes through, etc)… panic people aren’t really the type to be patient through a govt process….

Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 09:49:30

“…but don’t FHA loans have a cap on the value of the homes you can buy with them?”

Sort of. IMO, $700K (FHA limit on a 4 BR home in San Diego County) is a pretty high “cap” for a program which ostensibly is intended to help low income buyers. The median HH income in SD county is $65K; exactly how many buyers with household incomes below $65K are going to be able to pay off the mortgage on a $700K home???

Type in San Diego on the “County” line in this form to see for yourself:

https://entp.hud.gov/idapp/html/hicostlook.cfm

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Comment by anoninCA
2007-04-01 10:35:26

Actually 700K is for a “four-family” property…aka a quad-plex…not 4 BR home as you state.
One-family FHA $ amount is 363K, regardless of # of bedrooms or if it’s a townhome or SFR. This is of course ridiculous for anything California…but that’s the way it goes.

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 12:15:41

I was hoping someone would point out my error of interpretation — thanks for that! Unless HC’s proposal to raise the $363K limit in California somehow goes through, then FHA loans will have negligible effect in CA, as viable homes at that price or lower are virtually nonexistent (even in supposedly “low income” areas like San Pablo and Compton!).

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Asa
2007-04-01 06:54:35

I know of a couple who just lost their house to the bank.

They are moving in with their kids - 9 people living in one house.

Next to a bunch of Somilians here in Columbus, Ohio.

I visted their place last week - it is a dump.

I am waiting for a bunch of other people to move in with them.

I will keep you posted.

Asa

 
Comment by BM
2007-04-01 07:04:56

Thanks to those who came to the S.F. Saloon last night for a short party. Too bad we had to contend with the UCLA game! The place was packed. Perhaps we can do it again when there won’t be any competition for space. Blog on, West LA!

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 07:14:32

Will the symbiosis end with a trade war? One possible casualty: Higher mortgage interest rates could result if China suddenly developed a distaste for purchasing U.S. T-bonds and MBS. In fact, in the “best” possible case, where this was merely due to equilibrium adjustment rather than a retaliatory volley in a trade war, a stronger Yuan would result in less U.S. imports of Chinese goods and less Chinese imports of U.S. dollars that currently get repatriated in our debt market.

Watch out what you wish for, Congress!
———————————————————————————-
DEAN CALBREATH
What’s that sour taste? It’s the U.S. trade deficit
April 1, 2007

As I went to the cafeteria last week to grab a snack, I plunked down 75 cents for a candy-ish item called “Florida’s Natural, an Au’some Fruit Juice String.”

Fruit. Juice. Nature. Fused together by the Florida sun. Au’some! (Don’t ask me what that means.)

So it came as a surprise when I flipped the package over and found that this juice-infused taste of Florida was actually made in China – or, more precisely, in a 1,500-worker factory in Shenzhen across the border from Hong Kong.

Prodded into action by the trade hawks, the Bush administration on Friday levied tariffs on glossy paper products imported from China – an opening volley in what may be a costly trade war. The move was a major turnabout for the Commerce Department, which had previously questioned whether it had the legal authority to impose the tariffs.

In the meantime, the Senate Finance Committee last week held a hearing on the Chinese currency, which economists say is undervalued against the U.S. dollar by as much as 40 percent. The low value of the yuan allows factories in China – such as the Heung Shing Novelty Works in Shenzhen, where Florida’s Natural candy is produced – to pay workers a fraction of what they would make in the United States.

The House is weighing a law co-sponsored by Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Alpine, that would force the United States to take countermeasures against the yuan.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070401/news_1b1dean.html

Comment by Lou Minatti
2007-04-01 07:26:03

So what, if anything, should be done to change this? I get nervous when I hear politicians talk about protecting American jobs by raising tarriffs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act

Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 08:13:17

“So what, if anything, should be done to change this?”

Mandatory economics education for Congressmen?

 
Comment by in Colorado
2007-04-01 09:56:29

Yet everyone else does it, and they are eating our lunch. They have free access to our markets for products where they are competitive, and close theirs where they are not.

Comment by CA renter
2007-04-02 02:25:25

Exactly.

Quite frankly, I’m not sure about all the arguments in favor of “free trade”.

Since the U.S. has tremendous natural resources (especially land), I think we would be the ones to benefit most if we eliminated a good portion of our free trade practices.

If we want free trade, without harming our own population & country, as a whole, we need to trade only with partners who adhere to the same standards that we do WRT worker’s rights, wages, pollution control, govt subsidies, etc.

We’ve been brainwashed into thinking tariffs will kill our economy, largely because of Smoot-Hawley & the Great Depression. As today, there were many other forces which caused the Great Depression (one of which, IMHO the main issue, was the tremendous disparities in income & wealth).

We need to protect the American consumer/citizen over the profits of corporations that seek only to profit at the expense of our own workers, environmental concerns, quality of life concerns, etc.

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Comment by sellnrun
2007-04-01 07:57:33

Most economic historians credit Secretary of State James Baker’s comments about Chinese trade with having set off the largest one-day point drop on the Dow in 1987. He made the comments on a Friday and the subsequent decline occurred on the following Tuesday. Possible parallels?

Comment by jagq
2007-04-01 08:23:02

my understanding is the Baker comment at that time was the stupid comment he made on TV that we would NOT defend the dollar……thus the reaction by the market the next Monday.

Comment by sellnrun
2007-04-01 09:14:36

MONDAY not Tuesday, thanks!

Bruce Bartlett:

“Another important trigger in the market crash was the announcement of a large U.S. trade deficit on October 14, which led Treasury Secretary James Baker to suggest the need for a fall in the dollar on foreign exchange markets. Fears of a lower dollar led foreigners to pull out of dollar-denominated assets, causing a sharp rise in interest rates.”

Large trade deficits are OK these days as long as we pretend we’re in favor of a strong dollar.

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Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 09:43:51

“MONDAY not Tuesday, thanks!”

Black Monday (Oct 19, 1987), not to be confused with Black Tuesday (Oct 29, 1929)…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Tuesday

 
 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-04-01 08:31:22

This probably has more to do with Lou Dobbs’ recent appearance on the Hill than international trade.

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-04-01 08:36:52

A beautiful day to all.
China will retaliate, but as opposed to the US which has short sighted goals (political expediency), China’s goals are 10 - 20 years out. China is officially a “non market economy” with a per capita income of US $1000/yr.
China is not under the same pressure that faced Japan in the mid ’80s when the Japanese surplus was out of control. At that time Japan was trading with the US and not as much with the European countries. China’s largest trading partners are the Euro nations. China sees what happened to Japan after they revalued and cannot afford to allow the same economic collapse occur. “EU’s export to China also witnessed a strong growth last year, rising by 23 percent to 63.3 billion euros.

The rising importance of trade links between China and EU was interpreted by experts as a good reason for the EU to grow despite the threat of US slowdown, the newspaper said.” China Daily

According to Eurostat the US trade deficit with the EU27 as of Dec, 2006 increased to 91.3 Billion (European Commission external trade = at eurostat.com). As an aside, why aren’t we blasting the EU for its trade surplus?

So how will China retaliate? China will simply cancel future orders to the US.

IMHO first it will be some of the planes China has on order from Boeing. (Boeing is expected to sell China between 1600 and 2600 planes)

China’s ARJ-21 was scheduled to be announced in May. It was announced on March 29th when the tariff became final.

“The company has received 71 orders for the ARJ-21 from domestic airlines and aims to sell another five to the United States, said Chen Jin, vice general manager of AVIC I’s commercial aircraft subsidiary.
The developer claimed the nation’s return on investment was much better than the world average. The ARJ-21 involved a total investment of 5 billion yuan ($641 million), while similar foreign projects often require twice that figure. The jet is priced at around $27 million per unit….
…Airbus’ latest forecast puts China in second place behind the United States in both the number and value of jets needed between 2006 and 2025, with a market for 2,929 large aircraft worth $349 billion.” (China Daily March 31)

China has a trade surplus with the Euro nations and can just as easily make purchases of Airbus.

It would not take many Boeing cancellations to cause the US to rethink its tariff acts.

“As a result of the Chinese government’s massive efforts to narrow the trade gap with the United States, that country’s exports to China increased by over 30 percent year-on-year in 2006.”

and from Stephen Roach at Morgan Stanley as reported in March 20 China Daily
Instead of pointing the finger at China, a savings-short US should have a close look in the mirror, urged Stephen Roach, chief economist of Morgan Stanley.

“The United States can do a much better job in boosting its savings rates, China knows it has a lot of imbalances to deal with. It is trying to put policies in place to deal with its imbalances on its own terms…”

We are doomed by stupidity.

Comment by Left LA Behind
2007-04-01 12:52:40

…and aims to sell another five to the United States…

I had not heard that Wal*Mart was starting an airline!

 
 
Comment by SolvingADream
2007-04-01 09:39:01

It’s one thing to buy products from China like yarn, pencil erasers, and blank DVD’s…it’s quite another to buy actual food we put in our mouths from a country that could give a rats a$$ what fillers and poisons they put in the food. The pet food scare, traced to Chinese wheat gluten loaded with God knows what impurities (some say rat poison, some say plastic resin) is just the tip of the ice berg.

I will be rejecting food that comes from China, the Chinese are the enviromental pirates of the world.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 09:53:26

“…the Chinese are the enviromental pirates of the world.”

I guess that explains why the U.S. has outsourced much of its dirty manufacturing to China?

Comment by SF Bay
2007-04-01 10:54:22

Too true, GS. We’ve exported our pollution to China.

But I’m careful about eating food which originated in China too, and I was born there.

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Comment by not a gator
2007-04-01 10:37:20

Great book on this issue: The End of the Line, by Barry C. Lynn. Well researched, very clear.

His argument is that ‘free trade’ from the US side was a policy decision by the United States. He also blames or at least fingers Clinton for changing the management of US trade in a way that allowed the atomization of industry. (Today’s brave new world of outsourced manufacturing.) It’s a great book for at least getting a grip on how we got where we are.

Btw, I am not a Clinton basher; in fact, I liked him a lot.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2007-04-01 11:31:44

Here we go.

Don’t blame the Bushies, don’t blame Wall Street. Don’t blame your poor choices. It’s the Chinese!!!!!

 
 
Comment by winjr
2007-04-01 07:15:08

Last week, one of the attorneys in my office was talking about his client that would close on the purchase of a home the following day. Countrywide gave him a 106% LTV deal. I told the attorney to prepare his client, ’cause ain’t no way Countrywide will fund that loan. He wanted to know why, and I told him “just because”.

Sure enough, two hours later Countrywide killed the deal and demanded a 5% downpayment.

Immediate office points!

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 07:22:56

There is a perfectly logical reason to not require escrow accounts on subprime loans. As long as a future foreclosure is in the bag, why not avoid requiring a pesky escrow account, as it implicitly limits the buyer’s home purchase bid by diverting money for tax and insurance payments which won’t need to be made after a near-term foreclosure?
———————————————————————————-
NATION’S HOUSING
KENNETH HARNEY
Lack of impound accounts fueling foreclosures
April 1, 2007

WASHINGTON – As financial regulators and Congress probe more deeply into the delinquencies and foreclosures roiling the subprime home loan market, one key contributing factor is receiving increased attention: the lack of mandatory escrow accounts, also known as impound accounts.

According to some industry estimates, a majority of subprime mortgages closed during the housing boom years carried no escrows for property taxes and hazard insurance. That is in stark contrast to the prime mortgage market for consumers with good credit, where mandatory escrow accounts are routine.

“It’s an upside-down world,” said Mike Calhoun, president and chief operating officer of the Center for Responsible Lending, a consumer advocacy group based in Durham, N.C. “The people you’d think need an escrow the most aren’t required to have them, and the people who need them the least are forced to use them.”

Escrow accounts are set up by lenders to guarantee the timely payment of property tax bills and insurance premiums. On top of principal and interest charges for the mortgage every month, the lender also collects pro-rata amounts of money to be paid when tax bills and insurance premiums come due during the year. In that sense, escrow accounts serve as a safety net for homeowners and lenders alike.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070401/news_lz1h01harney.html

Comment by jbunniii
2007-04-01 09:00:59

“It’s an upside-down world,” said Mike Calhoun, president and chief operating officer of the Center for Responsible Lending, a consumer advocacy group based in Durham, N.C. “The people you’d think need an escrow the most aren’t required to have them, and the people who need them the least are forced to use them.”

And renters are the only ones required to have cash anymore.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2007-04-01 07:33:53

I visited an apartment complex last week, and they had a “rent-to-buy” option. You didn’t rent to buy the apartment. Instead, if you stayed in the apartment 3 years, they would put $9000 (taken from rent payments) toward the down payment on a house. The catch was that you had to buy the new home from the same builder that built the apartments. Why sure, I’ll take $9k and put it toward a cardboard shitbox that cost $75K more than than the market (and $125K more than it’s worth). Not bloody likely.

And it was one of those annoying apartment complexes too — the kind where they are all happy-happy joy-joy and have the clubhouse and all the meet-the-neighbors events. As if I want to live with a bunch of 24-year-olds who act exactly like college sophomores, except that they can afford better beer.

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 07:47:33

A sign of the times: The sdhomes BUYING GUIDE runs a weekly series by area realtors about the current situation. Usually the flavor is of 2005 vintage, “It is a great time to invest in a San Diego home, because San Diego real estate always goes up…”

Today’s column reflects the chill financial wind blowing through the normally red-hot spring San Diego market. Reading between the lines, I am inferring that a very large share of recent San Diego purchases were only possible with 100 percent financing, and that the realtor who wrote the piece senses this type of loan may be disappearing with the sudden concern about skyrocketing foreclosures and falling home prices. Needless to say, no mention is made of the likelihood for further price declines with a return of downpayment requirements.
———————————————————————————-
Loan options are changing
by Isabel Hall
General Manager and Senior Vice President of McMillin Realty, Mortgage and Escrow

The world of lending is undergoing a significant change for homebuyers. For several years now, many homebuyers have enjoyed the benefits of purchasing a home using conventional, easy-qualifying financing with zero down payment. The advantage is obvious; relatively little cash is required to close the transaction, allowing first-time buyers with limited savings to enter the homebuying market. (The disadvantage is also obvious: There is a much greater foreclosure risk on 100% financed home purchases.) Today’s significant change is that these “sub prime” loans (sic) are fast disappearing.

What does this mean to a buyer currently in the market for a home? It means “plan ahead.” By talking about financing options with a real estate agent in the initial stages of the homebuying process, one can take steps ahead of time to insure a successful closing (But aren’t prices likely to fall if all the first time buyers with no savings are suddenly underwritten out of the market, and those with savings are required to put skin in the game?). If a gift for the down payment is the answer, early arrangements can make the loan process quicker and easier (But isn’t it 100 percent financing if a gift covers the downpayment?). If a higher credit score is required for 100 percent financing, a buyer can clean up the credit while searching for the right home (How do you erase a historical pattern of stiffing creditors over a couple of months’ time while you are shopping for a home?). If FHA or VA financing is the better alternative, a person can prepare for the lender’s expectations in advance (But doesn’t the FHA require a 3% downpayment? I guess it is possible to find someone to “gift” that…)

What does this mean to a seller? Some “zero down payments” loans that have been financed in the recent past are now being turned away. A seller is best served by a real estate agent who queries the lender on any “100 percent financing” offer before accepting such a purchase contract. Again, early preparation can prevent disappointment.

Knowledge is power. Plan ahead; seek a real estate agent’s guidance; consult with an informed loan officer; prepare for a successful closing. (Or better yet, don’t try to catch a falling knife as 100 percent financing goes back out of fashion.)

Comment by brianb
2007-04-01 08:19:40

Good article. More downpayment requirements take alot of people right out of the market. It also makes the purchase more ‘real’ for them as they must put up 50-100K on even the entry level shacks. Houses that would be under 100K where I live are 700K in SD.

Why did you need a (sic) at the end of that paragraph? What was the grammar mistake they made?

Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 08:24:49

“sub prime” (every MSM article written on the housing finance picture since the beginning of 2007 has used “subprime”…)

 
 
Comment by passthebubbly
2007-04-01 08:25:31

Oh, this one just buried the needle on the unintentional comedy scale.

“By talking about financing options with a real estate agent in the initial stages of the homebuying process”

IOW: Please ignore that the agent’s best interests are the exact opposite of yours. The realtor™ is your friend.

“If a gift for the down payment is the answer”

IOW: Ask Mommy and Daddy to give you money so you can afford the nice, overpriced San Diego house. Then I can get my commission, the seller won’t have to lower the price and nobody gets hurt. Except Mommy and Daddy. And you. But not me, which is all I care about.

“If a higher credit score is required for 100 percent financing”

IOW: Try paying your other bills before you buy a house this time. But don’t wait too long, becuase pretty soon NOBODY will be able to get 100% financing and there will be tons of houses around so people will have to drop their prices anyway and this is making my head hurt so I need to stop thinking about this now.

There’s more, but I’m laughing too hard as it is.

Comment by txchick57
2007-04-01 08:57:25

Really, it boils down to this:

GROW UP

sad you have to say that to people in their 30s and 40s

Comment by SF Bay
2007-04-01 11:21:18

How about people in their 50s and 60s? Most of my friends are realistic–all are intelligent and disciplined–but a couple of them insist on staying invested in real estate. One has to postpone his retirement because he refi’d to do a speculative remodel of his primary residence. Sad indeed…

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Comment by implosion
2007-04-01 12:19:00

At least he’s paying the price for his actions.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Wickedheart
2007-04-01 12:08:28

GetStucco,

There are plenty of government programs that will “gift” the 3% down payment.

http://tinyurl.com/2xqx62

Not too long ago 10 news featured a couple who got nearly a 100K worth of government assistance to buy a home.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 13:06:18

I am very unclear on why the government would see any benefit in destroying the most basic of natural credit screening mechanisms, the downpayment requirement. Isn’t it pretty much common knowledge in the lending industry that foreclosures are much higher among households which don’t have the financial discipline to save up for a downpayment?

Comment by Wickedheart
2007-04-01 16:21:14

The only possible benefit I see is higher property taxes providing these people pay up. Have you checked the tax liens? Hellava lot of people aren’t paying the tax man.

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Comment by crispy&cole
2007-04-01 07:51:15
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-04-01 07:58:27

If you have not read The New Road to Serfdom: An illustrated guide to the coming real estate collapse by Michael Hudson, here is your chance. The article was originally published in Harper’s magazine (May 2006). Serfs Up!

Link: http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=966

Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-04-01 08:26:38

Paragaraph: [20] The problem for recent homebuyers is not just that prices are falling; it’s that prices are falling even as the buyers’ total mortgage remains the same or even increases. Eventually the price of the house will fall below what homeowners owe, a state that economists call negative equity. Homeowners with negative equity are trapped. They can’t sell–the declining market price won’t cover what they owe the bank–but they still have to make those (often growing) monthly payments. Their only choice is to cut back spending in other areas or lose the house–and everything they paid for it–in foreclosure.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 08:07:29

Why Ask For An FHA Loan?

Low Downpayment - We have a low 3% downpayment, and that money can come from a family member, employer or charitable organization. Other loans don’t allow this. (If someone else pays it, the 3% downpayment is actually a 0% downpayment…)

Help You Keep Your Home - The FHA has been around since 1934 and will continue to be here to protect you when the others walk away. Should you encounter hard-times after buying your home, FHA has many options to help keep you in your home and avoid foreclosure.

http://www.hud.gov/fha/choosefha.cfm

And here is further encouragement from HUD for households to buy homes they cannot afford (whoever in the press said $363K was the FHA mortgage limit did not check their facts):

https://entp.hud.gov/idapp/html/hicostlook.cfm

(Type in San Diego on the “county” line…)

I may be misinterpreting this information, but I believe the implication is that the FHA is insuring mortgages on San Diego homes priced as high as $697,696, which does not really sound like much of a starter home to me.

Comment by anoninCA
2007-04-01 10:49:10

Same mistake as above GS…700K is for a 4-family property…i.e. a quad-plex that would likely cost upwards of 1.5 million anywhere within 2-hr drive of the california coast.
Max FHA amount for 1-family unit is 363K.

 
 
Comment by crispy&cole
2007-04-01 08:20:29

Mortgage Tree Lending DONE!:

http://bakersfieldbubble.blogspot.com

 
Comment by lineup32
2007-04-01 08:34:02

“‘The market at the beach has died,’ said Scott Gaston of Dover, an investor who is selling a Rehoboth Beach house he bought in foreclosure in January. Already, he has lowered the price.”

the second wave of flippers, buyers of foreclosure and REO homes. RE always goes up, doesn’t it?

 
Comment by lineup32
2007-04-01 09:15:14

Was reading on CR blog a post about subprime mortgatgees which focused on the fact that only 13% were used for first time home buyers. Most of the subprime were refi cash out from fixed to ARM/IO with low teaser rates and cash. I notice this during 04/05 the large number of fixed to ARM with teaser rates and wondered what the hell were these people thinking!

Comment by But_Im_Not_Dead_Yet
2007-04-01 14:19:55

Wow. That surprises me also…

 
Comment by seattle price drop
2007-04-01 19:56:31

Some neighbors of mine lost their house a few years back for just that reason. They had a fixed and were talked into an ARM. It put the payments lower for about 6 months then they shot up above what the original fixed had been.

They had to sell the house, which, because the market was still strong, they were able to do without bringing $$ to the table.

It’s people like these who I think will be way pi$$ed if the government starts bailing more recent ARM exploders. There is NO WAY these people could afford to buy that house back again now. (’Course in another year or two, who knows!)

Comment by CA renter
2007-04-02 03:14:55

Unfortunately, I know quite a few people who went from a very reasonable FRM mortgage to some variation of suicide loan (neg-am, I/O, etc.) after cashing out over and over and over again.

You wouldn’t believe it if you didn’t see it. Just doesn’t make any sense.

 
 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 09:17:41

The FHA seems to be a key player driving the foreclosure crisis. And blue state CIC candidates have consequently proposed to expand its role. Is there any way to block Federal agencies like this one from success with their ongoing campaign to destroy the U.S. housing market?
———————————————————————————
Posted yesterday by Jerry from Richardson:

‘foreclosing on the american dream | third in an occasional series
FHA program key in surge of foreclosures
“I just can’t make it. The mortgage is too big. It’s so far behind now …”
By David Olinger and Jeffrey A. Roberts
Denver Post Staff Writers
Article Last Updated: 12/06/2006 05:16:42 PM MST’

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_4228048?source=email

Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 09:21:43

Surprise, surprise — 100% financing actually increases foreclosure risk!
From the article:
——————————————————————————-
A key factor in the state’s record-setting wave of foreclosures, critics say, is an FHA program that allows people to borrow more than their houses are worth with little or no money down.

Created to extend the dream of homeownership to first-time buyers, the so-called FHA gift program instead has led to rampant foreclosures. Nearly 6,000 FHA loans have wound up in foreclosure in Colorado in the past two years, and during that time the program allowed more than 25 percent of FHA buyers to use gifts as down payments.

“If it wasn’t FHA, it would be fraud,” said John Head, a Denver lawyer who represents victims of mortgage-fraud schemes.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfruede
2007-04-01 09:27:46

Wow…I never thought it would happen to me. Was going to an open house, and just totally fell in love with the place. Was also highly impressed with the realtor’s research - she really knew her stuff. Long story short, we made an offer for full asking price on the spot. I feel good about it - with all the inventory, it really is a good time to buy, and rates might be going up.

APRIL FOOLS! BWAHWHAHAHAHAHA!

I slay me….

Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-04-01 10:54:22

…and
– I’m David ‘boom’ Lereah,
– Serin was arrested for mortgage fraud,
– Executive order 04012007 fixes home prices at 10 pct above peak and includes a provision for complete FB debt forgiveness.

 
Comment by CA renter
2007-04-02 03:17:00

Dang, Sammy. You actually had me going there. Thought we’d be lost in the Twilight Zone forever if folks like you were buying in right now.

Thank God you were joking! :)

 
 
Comment by mike
2007-04-01 09:34:17

Talking to a group of friends (about a dozen at a birthday party) last night about the current state of everything in the USA including real estate. Most of the people have mortgages. Only two of us were renters. Some (the older boomers) had paid off over the years and were now free and clear. One (in his 40s) sounded like a typical fb. Last year he bought 2 properties near Palm Springs as investments but said he thought he might have made a mistake even if the values had not dropped too much at this point. Fortunately, he makes enough to keep his head above water even in a severe down turn. Others had bought in the 70’s and 80’s and 90’s and were in various stages of paying off their mortgage.

However, I noticed that most were looking very “property owning unsure” (as opposed to being “property owning confident” a few months ago) as the conversation went on and subjects like recession, sub-prime meltdown, national debt, inflation (all agreed government numbers were b.s), healthcare costs, the Iraq and Iran mess and China were injected into the conversation. Interestingly enough, the Bush supports were no longer happy with Bush or Cheney. One ex-Bush cheerleader actually said he now thinks Bush will go down in history as the worst President the US has ever had.

All in all, the atmosphere was not one of being confident of the America’s future.

Then, finally, a very interesting observation by someone (a mortgage paid off boomer property owner) who said, “Truth is, we all think WE own our property. Try not paying your taxes or fall on hard times and being unable to pay your taxes - and then you’ll find out real quick who REALLY owns your property……and it isn’t you even if it’s paid for.”

Comment by arroyogrande
2007-04-01 10:10:44

“Truth is, we all think WE own our property”

Real Estate = (spanish) ree-AL Estate, meaning Royal’s Estate or King’s Estate. The government is only giving you a very broad license for the ground’s use…

Comment by FutureVulture
2007-04-01 17:33:29

And don’t forget,
Sangreal = Holy Grail,
Sang Real = Royal Blood,
Sangrealestate = pursuit of the holy grail (money) via real estate, which leads to a Royal Bloodletting.

“Lereah is the Anti-Christ”
— Me

 
 
 
Comment by Judicious1
2007-04-01 09:50:32

OK, I’m starting to become a little anxious about the cash I have saved in the likes of ingdirect, etrade, etc. I vaguely recall someone (GetStucco?) recommending treasurydirect.gov as a safe harbor for cash while the housing downturn plays itself out. I’m thinking it would be wise to move most of it to T-bills rather than hope ingdirect hasn’t loaned my money to someone that won’t be able to pay it back. Am I being paranoid? I appreciate your feedback.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 09:55:12

I’m more paranoid than you. Looking into offshore currency diversification at this point, as I see no evidence the U.S. govt has any intension of ending its War on Savers after 23 straight months of a negative savings rate.

Comment by auger-inn
2007-04-01 12:03:58

GS, I’ve felt the same way but after watching this game called “competitive devaluation” by all the central bankers I’ve turned to gold.
It seems like every major currency has it’s time as “lead dog” and then gets swatted down hard (in relation to USD). I do see where in a major dollar revaluation being in say euros would be beneficial but to date the central bankers are printing the hell out of ALL the currencies and any gain is just relative to other inflated paper. What are you sensing?

Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 12:09:18

“competitive devaluation”

I call it “beggar thy neighbor’s currency.” This game is clearly unsustainable.

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Comment by auger-inn
2007-04-01 12:10:21

This is an interesting read as well.
http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/88836-dollar-0

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 13:07:42

“…interesting read…”

Ochen horrorshow.

 
Comment by Anthony
2007-04-01 21:16:28

I read Pravda a lot too. It is interesting in that it provides an entirely different perspective on a lot of things. I’m not saying it is necessarily always true…but interesting.

I especially like all these articles about the financial problems dogging the US. Maybe Russia will have the last laugh, when we’re begging for their oil.

 
 
 
 
Comment by kerk93
2007-04-01 10:12:33

By buying Treasury debt, you are betting on deflation. If there is deflation, I don’t find it likely the Treasury will be able to pay its nearly 9 trillion dollar debt (let alone the private debt).

If deflation results, I am sure that Congress will pass legislation (like tarrifs, min wage, etc) that will force inflation.

You’ll get your principal with interest, but what will the purchasing power be?

Fed Reserve Notes have been around for about 90 years. I personally feel that is pretty long for a currency in the grander scheme of things (considering the policies of the FED and Congress).

 
Comment by Judicious1
2007-04-01 10:25:34

Thanks for the responses. I still feel T-bills may be a safer place than a lending institution with an orange-bouncing-ball mortgage product and HELOC. Agreed?

Comment by CarrieAnn
2007-04-01 12:27:06

Except for what people have shared here, I don’t have that strong an understanding of money. But I was wondering, with the dollar plummeting in value, why Treasuries would still be considered safer.

Someone posted that they felt other currencies will be heading south with ours soon and they felt our valuations would fall the least.

It’s difficult for me to see the forest through the trees on this one, if anyone would like to clarify their opinion….

I guess that means I’d do what GS suggests. (currency diversificaton)

Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 13:01:43

“But I was wondering, with the dollar plummeting in value, why Treasuries would still be considered safer.”

They are safer compared to other dollar-denominated debt (e.g., MBS), but don’t give protection against inflation or devaluation of the $US.

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Comment by not a gator
2007-04-01 15:22:14

You may be right. I have both. ING may be in more trouble in NL in coming years than in USA this year. Thus, when my CD’s expire I may look at other options.

However, I have some money in USD to pay off a student loan (interest rate arbitrage–I’m paying USDoEd 2.75%) so that limits those options a lot. Short term Treasuries look good.

Comment by not a gator
2007-04-01 15:25:26

Also, I have an account with Schwab. Seeing how Wall Street is entering another rocky period … shit, do I trust ING or Schwab more? Or go back to (ugh) the retail banks? (Noooo!)

I need banking services, I just don’t know who *isn’t* f@cked right now.

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Comment by FutureVulture
2007-04-01 17:40:50

I still feel T-bills may be a safer place

Wherever you have uncertainty, diversify.
If I wanted to be all in “cash”, I would put at least 50% in currencies of commodity-rich countries (e.g. Australia, Canada), and at least 10% in precious metals. See everbank.com for currency CDs and the like. GLD and SLV are precious metal ETFs, or tulving.com is a reliable online physical metals seller.

Comment by dublin212
2007-04-01 18:56:31

I’ve had checking and foreign CDs with Everbank for a while, but I would definitely not put too many eggs in one basket. Somebody here mentioned a bank rating agency, and when I paid for the report on Everbank, it came up with this:

Company: Everbank
Weiss Rating: C (Fair Financial Strength)
Address: 8100 Nations Way, Jacksonville, FL 32256

Major Rating Factors: A current level of 92.8 percent of nonperforming loans to core capital combined with 1.9 percent from a
year earlier contributes to the Very Weak asset quality (0.0 on a scale of 0 to 10). Good current capitalization (5.7) based on a
risk-adjusted capital ratio of 12.1 and a capital leverage ratio of 7.7.
Other Rating Factors: Operating profits as a percentage of assets at 1.5%, coupled with a return on assets of 0.9 has resulted
in Good (6.3 on a scale of 0 to 10) profitability. A five year analysis of stability tests including evaluations of capital adequacy,
asset growth, and profitability lead to a Good overall stability index (6.0).

What particularly stood out was this:
Asset Mix: Home mtgs (55%), home eq lns (11%), securities (7%), comm re (5%), cash (2%), comm loans (1%), other (19%)
States with branches: FL

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Comment by CA renter
2007-04-02 03:24:02

Thank you for that info, as I was thinking of putting some money there as well.

I have the very same fears GS does (and many others here). There is no safe place to put our money. :(

 
 
Comment by technovelist
2007-04-01 20:01:30

If you’re really “paranoid”, you probably won’t trust ETF’s. There’s no way to be absolutely sure that they really have the gold, or that you would be able to cash your shares in if you really needed to.

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Comment by FutureVulture
2007-04-02 07:31:03

Wow, thanks for the info, dublin! I didn’t know they held so many mortgages…

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2007-04-02 08:24:48

Thank you everyone for all the great comments here. Saving this portion of thread to hard drive.
CA

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by arroyogrande
2007-04-01 10:04:57

Next source of ‘foreclosures’ - tax sales?

LA Times
No impound? It’s lending without a net
http://tinyurl.com/243vcg

“As financial regulators and Congress probe more deeply into the delinquencies and foreclosures roiling the sub-prime home loan market, one key contributing factor is receiving increased attention: the lack of mandatory escrow impound accounts.”

“Sub-prime lenders dispense with mandatory escrows to keep monthly payments low. That’s an important lure because the interest rates they charge often are three percentage points or more above prime market rates, and many clients already have high debt loads and modest incomes. But the lack of escrow accounts also places heavy responsibilities on the borrowers to accumulate sufficient funds during the course of the year to pay tax and insurance bills, and to know when those bills come due.

Roy Rangel, a broker with Statewide Mortgage and Lending in San Antonio, calls the lack of escrow accounts “a killer” for financially strapped, unsophisticated borrowers “who don’t really understand that the payment they’re making every month isn’t everything that they owe” and that they’ve got to come up with thousands more to pay taxes and insurance.”

“Consumer advocates, however, think that Congress ought to consider imposing a much tougher standard: forcing sub-prime lenders to maintain escrow accounts.

“I think the failure to escrow on sub-prime mortgages is an abusive practice,” Calhoun said. “We think escrowing should be mandatory.”"

Comment by Brad
2007-04-01 16:54:31

I wonder if not requiring impound accounts for property taxes is a way to force unsophisticated borrowers to refi when the tax bill comes due.

 
 
Comment by not a gator
2007-04-01 10:17:22

I went to a live performance of Brahm’s German Requiem (in English…) and the following passage reminded me of this blog:

Psalm 39:4–7 Lord, make me to know mine end, and the measure of my days, what it is: that I may know how frail I am.
Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee.
Surely every man walks in a vain show: surely they are disquieted in vain: he heaps up riches, and knows not who shall gather them.
And now, Lord, what wait I for? My hope is in thee.

Replace the Lord with geologic time, and I would kind of agree with that.

We spend a lot of time on this blog worrying about (disquieted) how external events are going to impact our net worth (heaps of riches). It’s good to remember that there are more important things in life than money.

Heck, even the FB’s (well, most of them, anyway) keep going in the face of financial disaster. We’re still alive; beats being dead.

Comment by CA renter
2007-04-02 03:33:46

Good post, gator. You’re right. One of this country’s strengths is also its weakness — Joe Sixpack’s lack of interest & understanding of current affairs (especially international & economic affairs).

On one hand, we get these bubbles and inept politicians who win votes by being handsome, speaking eloquently or just being a “good ol’ boy”. Our citizens know so very little about what’s going on all around them…YET, I believe it’s this very ignorance and short attention span that makes our country so resilient. We forget the bad things and just “move on” with the future. It’s crude, but it works.

Maybe we (who try to understand everything and make sense out of actions & events) are the fools…

 
 
Comment by dimedropped
2007-04-01 10:30:54

PMI removal has been a big part of housing for the past 3 years. You are required to be in the house for 2 years and you must make improvements to the home in the meantime.

The requests have all but dried up as the homeowners realize that they are under water. That is a couple hundred bucks a month you will pay till you are a little old homeowner, for nothing, other than your own stupidity. Call it a rental fee for a mortgage.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 12:08:06

“PMI removal has been a big part of housing for the past 3 years.”

My guess is that 80/20 “piggyback” loans went far to crowd out PMI in the recent period. The 20% piggyback loan could have, in principle, been priced at an interest rate that included a risk premium against default, though given the conundrum, it seems unlikely that this was the case.

 
 
Comment by JWM in SD
2007-04-01 10:40:31

Anyone seen what’s going on at the Lanser Blog in the past month. He’s gone really bearish in my opinion and now all the permabulls are pitching a fit over it and blaming Lanser and the bubble bloggers for the change in the market in SoCal. It’s hilarious if not sad. I think we are now officially in the Anger stage thanks to the Subprime Meltdown no longer allowing for denila in the MSM.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-04-01 11:20:59

Kill The Messenger

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 16:40:50

Here is a quiz on alternative mortgage products. I predict a glut of MSM articles published six months hence which directly attribute a record number of foreclosures to the lending industry’s recent eagerness to qualify so many buyers to use one of the products listed below to buy homes the buyers otherwise would not have been able to afford.
=============================================================
Sunday, Apr 01, 2007
Moneywise
STEVEN PEARLSTEIN ON BUSINESS
ON BUSINESS
Be smart, first time buyers

Today’s pop quiz involves some potentially exciting new products that mortgage bankers have come up with to make homeownership a reality for cash-strapped first-time buyers.

Here goes: Which of these products do you think makes sense?

(a) The “balloon mortgage,” in which the borrower pays only interest for 10 years before a big lump-sum payment is due.

(b) The “liar loan,” in which the borrower is asked merely to state his annual income, without presenting any documentation.

(c) The “option ARM” loan, in which the borrower can pay less than the agreed-upon interest and principal payment, simply by adding to the outstanding balance of the loan.

(d) The “piggyback loan,” in which a combination of a first and second mortgage eliminates the need for any down payment.

(e) The “teaser loan,” which qualifies a borrower for a loan based on an artificially low initial interest rate, even though he or she doesn’t have sufficient income to make the payments when the interest rate is reset in two years.

(f) The “stretch loan,” in which the borrower has to commit more than 50 percent of gross income to make the monthly payments.

(g) All of the above.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/business/personal_finance/17004079.htm

 
Comment by fred hooper
2007-04-01 18:25:40

Maricopa County Arizona (Phoenix Metro) NTS
Jan 05 1297
Feb 05 940
Mar 05 1040
Apr 05 766
May 05 759
Jun 05 767
Jul 05 748
Aug 05 795
Sep 05 669
Oct 05 728
Nov 05 704
Dec 05 749
Jan 06 726
Feb 06 687
Mar 06 790
Apr 06 638
May 06 764
Jun 06 797
Jul 06 851
Aug 06 1019
Sep 06 1114
Oct 06 1238
Nov 06 1493
Dec 06 1407
Jan 07 1624
Feb 07 1577
Mar 07 1720

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 19:31:28

This quote features a soon-to-be-dispelled myth that equates saving money with “investing” in declining-value assets (houses):

‘”Home ownership is such an important part of people’s savings. It’s the biggest asset people own. It is the key part of the American dream,” she said.’

http://www.newsday.com/business/ats-ap_business16mar31,0,4162229.story?coll=ny-business-leadheadlines

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 19:35:38

Home||Business
Garrison Keillor must be blushing in shame about this story…
——————————————————————————–
Subprime lending: Made in Minnesota
Minnesota lenders virtually invented the mass-market subprime loan. And most got into serious financial trouble as a result.
By Thomas Lee, Star Tribune
Last update: April 01, 2007 – 9:24 PM
Mike Zerby, Star Tribune

The subprime mortgage crisis that has gummed up the housing sector nationwide doesn’t carry a “Made in Minnesota” tag. But it almost deserves that label.

Minnesota lenders — from Norwest and Green Tree to Metris — were pioneers in finding ways to cater to strapped borrowers, creating the lending template that others copied. And in a foreshadowing of the current situation, all of those lenders but Norwest (now Wells Fargo) eventually got themselves into serious financial trouble by bottom-feeding in the credit pool.

Such high-risk lending would seem to be in direct conflict with the stereotype of the stolid Midwestern banker. But history suggests that it’s the risk-averse stereotype that needs adjustment and that no matter how many times subprime lenders blow up, new ones will rise here, unable to resist the temptation of lending at double-digit interest rates.

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1091878.html

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-01 19:41:39

Reflections on a 39% percent haircut in the pace of residential construction…
———————————————————————————
April 1, 2007

The threat to national, local economies from the housing sector
By Patrick Barkey

Is there anything more personal, and more tragic, than getting evicted from your house? Not to mention newsworthy and dramatic? Perhaps this is why stories about mortgage delinquencies, foreclosures and evictions have started rolling out in advance of the events themselves. The oft-mentioned meltdown in the mortgage market, brought on by the perfectly predictable slowdown in runaway growth in housing prices over the last three years, is really more like a storm brewing offshore, whose arrival, impact and aftermath remain in doubt.

But parts of the housing slowdown — or bursting of the housing bubble, if you prefer — arrived many months ago. Home construction has fallen to earth, and markets all over Central Indiana have noticed. One year ago at this time, the national economy was on pace to build almost 2.3 million residential housing units. Since that time we have tumbled to a 1.4-million unit pace.

Until last June, metropolitan Indianapolis was on a home construction pace equal to the first half of 2005. But in the second half of 2006, building permits slumped hard, with the 12-month total almost 30 percent down from the previous year. Other forms of construction, including commercial and highway construction, have grown to help pick up the slack, but there is no doubt that the party in home building has closed down.

But a second “bubble” in housing markets, one with more sinister implications for credit markets and the economy as a whole, has not come ashore quite yet. That is the oft-predicted collapse in housing prices.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070401/OPINION03/704010356

 
 
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