April 2, 2007

“A Huge Shift Going On”

A report from the Arizona Republic. “Three opportunistic home builders are jumping into metro Phoenix’s new-home market, undeterred by the glut of unsold houses and high prices left over from the housing boom. Housing analysts say there is a risk in moving into a home-building market that is trying to get back on its feet after the excesses of a boom. An estimated 10,000 spec homes are on the market here. That is in addition to the more than 45,000 existing homes for sale.”

The East Valley Tribune from Arizona. “With home sales still languishing, Valley developers are holding off on building thousands of houses, focusing instead on purging excess inventory and reevaluating the market.”

“Plans for an estimated 3,000 to 5,000 homes have either been postponed or scrapped, and that’s a conservative estimate, said John Fioramonti with research firm Hanley Wood Market Intelligence. ‘Most of these people have already written off 2007,’ and are waiting to see what will happen in 2008, he said.”

“Scottsdale-based Montalbano Homes decided to delay an 1,800-home development in the Queen Creek area until mid-2008. Montalbano already has a Queen Creek project called Estates at Skyline Ranch. That development still has 14 completed but unsold, or speculative, homes to offload.”

“Starting another project in the same area would have the company competing with itself, risking price erosion, he said.”

“Some builders are sitting on land they’ve already bought…others are walking away from options to buy properties. It’s happening mainly in outlying areas, such as Maricopa, Coolidge and the far West Valley, Fioramonti said.”

“For national, publicly traded companies, holding onto properties that aren’t producing income can negatively impact financial statements for stockholders, he said. That’s been made worse by recent sales figures that have fallen far below projections, he said.”

“‘They’d rather lose the $150,000 or $200,000 they had in options rather than carry a larger inventory,’ Fioramonti said. ‘That’s been happening across the country.’”

“Meanwhile, some builders are moving forward with projects. Canada-based Mattamy Homes is about to break ground on two subdivisions, totalling nearly 250 homes, in the Queen Creek area as part of its expansion into Arizona.”

“‘There’s still demand for new homes at the right price and the right program,’ said Mark McHone, president of the company’s Phoenix division.”

The Verde Independent from Arizona. “The Arizona Governor’s Housing Forum in last September showed that ‘from 2000 to 2006, the median sales price of homes in Arizona increased by 74 percent, but during the same period median family income only increased by 15 percent.’”

“We have seen an even more dramatic trend in the Verde Valley with 128 percent increases in housing costs over five years in Camp Verde where the median price of a home is $289,000.”

“With the failure of the sub-prime lending market after the bizarre lending frenzy of 2005, many homeowners, who received 100 percent loans, have been forced from those homes. Dan Mabery of Coldwell Banker says the foreclosures in the Verde Valley currently number one or two each week.”

“‘That is 10 times the average rate. Lenders got easy with money. Some people should not have had loans. They had adjustable rate mortgages or paid too much,’ he said.”

“He says the Cottonwood area already has one of the largest numbers of single family homes used as rental properties at 40 percent. Those numbers could be subject to change as well for the same reason: high purchase cost and evasive financing. In his newsletter, Mabery points out it is ‘near impossible to cash flow a residential rental that justifies the purchase price.’”

“Right now the real estate market has a glut of properties, ‘it’s very high, with 10 months of inventory,’ says Mabery. For Sedona the number is even higher.”

The Salt Lake Tribune from Utah. “In the midst of tightening lending standards, borrowers with low credit scores probably will struggle to get a good deal. ‘We are seeing a huge shift going on right now,’ said Evan Jones of GMAC Mortgage in Salt Lake City.”

“Just two weeks ago, Jones said, he could have provided a home equity loan to a borrower with a credit score of at least 580. Today the minimum is 620 to 680, depending on a borrower’s circumstances.”

“He said loans in which 100 percent of the purchase price can be financed are available generally only to people with credit scores of 680 and higher. ‘Before, we could offer this to borrowers with a credit score as low as 560 to 580,’ he said.”

“For William and Ronda Starks of Syracuse, the recent turmoil in the nation’s mortgage industry helped turn the process of refinancing their home into a financial nightmare. It’s an ordeal that resulted in a two-day hospital stay for Ronda, whose high blood pressure and heart problems make her especially susceptible to any type of stress.”

“‘You can’t imagine what it was like to go through something like this unless you go through it yourself,’ her husband said.”

“An estimated one in 10 home loans, about 52,000 mortgages in Utah, is considered subprime. About one in five new home loans being granted in Utah fall into the subprime category.”

“William Starks said he and his wife decided to refinance because they needed to cash out on some of their equity. The whole process was supposed to take only a couple of weeks and provide them with a new fixed-rate loan with a higher balance in the low 6 percent range.”

“But two weeks into the process, the Starkses began to watch helplessly as things went horribly wrong. The loan that appeared to be a certainty in January a month later had still not closed and no longer seemed to be a done deal. By March, they were getting desperate.”

“‘The rate kept going higher and higher,’ William Starks said. ‘We kept thinking, ‘What the heck is going on?’ It’s not supposed to work this way.’”

“At one point, their mortgage lender said the best he could do was 9 percent, although by mid-March they were able to close their loan at 7 1/4 percent. And that fixed-rate loan they had hoped to get? All they could qualify for was an adjustable-rate loan that remains fixed for only two years. After that, their mortgage rate, and payment, could balloon.”

“Undoubtedly, some buyers in Utah will watch their ability to buy or refinance shrink or disappear, and some sellers will be affected. Alan Brymer, of Provo, said he experienced this while recently trying to sell an investment property in another state to a borrower who fell into the subprime category.”

“‘The lending standards kept changing, and eventually they didn’t qualify anymore,’ he said. ‘I think lenders are overanalyzing things to the point of being ridiculous.’”

“He eventually found another buyer who did qualify, but only after a frustrating delay of several months.”

“Al Bingham, a senior loan officer for National City Mortgage in Salt Lake City, said if the secondary market will not accept a loan made to a certain borrower, in most cases it can’t be made.”

“‘Credit scores are so critical right now that every point matters,’ he said. ‘Even if you are one point off [from a minimum], there are no exceptions.’”




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92 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-04-02 12:25:47

From the AR link:

‘Smith said there are ‘deep discounts’ for land on the fringes of the urban area. There not only is a land-buying opportunity now but the chance to hire superintendents in short supply during the boom, said David Walls, Laing’s Phoenix division president. There also is less pressure now on trade contractors than during the boom, when soaring demand pushed delivery times to nine months or longer.’

‘Analysts say that delivery times have fallen below six months but that builders aren’t putting up too many new homes. Small builders now will have a better chance of staffing their jobs now that subcontractors aren’t overloaded. Builders now hold pricing leverage, too. Ray Leppien, head of Orleans Arizona and a former DMB Associates executive, expects quality to improve now that subcontractors aren’t just scrambling to fill jobs.’

‘Finding those bodies meant they were not the most qualified people to do the work,’ he said.’

The EVT link:

‘Montalbano already has a Queen Creek project called Estates at Skyline Ranch. That development still has 14 completed but unsold, or speculative, homes to offload. Starting another project in the same area would have the company competing with itself, risking price erosion, he said.’

Good luck puffing that bubble up, while hungry builders come in from out of state and undercut your poorly built homes, mister.

Comment by txchick57
2007-04-02 12:33:17

I don’t know about you but I find one of the most infuriating things about this bubble is all the out of town/out of state “experts” who think they know your local market better than you do, and that the locals are just rubes to be picked over. You should see the garbage I read about Texas on the SDCIA board and other places. Idiots.

Comment by dukes
2007-04-02 12:45:25

They love investing out of state over at SDCIA. Interesting that they finally see CA as a lost cause. Makes you wonder how overpriced $hitboxes in San Diego are still being sold for 500K…

2007-04-02 12:56:09

Come on, you got to love the treads over there, they think you can rent a 3br/2.5ba for $3000/month in Texas….making all those sweet $300K houses cash flow positive!!

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Comment by HARM
2007-04-02 13:17:55

They love investing out of state over at SDCIA.

Yes –buying houses in different states is how they “diversify”. :lol:

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Comment by Richard Burns
2007-04-02 13:48:32

Don’t knock this…it’s how I sold my home in Phoenix just last year, and still made peak $$ right before everything hit the fan (and the media). locals knew what was happening, but idiot Californians did not. I made out, and got out just in time.

 
 
 
Comment by jd
2007-04-02 12:53:48

Many times though, the locals are stuck in the “it’s different here” mentality.

Comment by txchick57
2007-04-02 13:33:21

It is different in Texas. It’s worse!!!!

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Comment by Not Mssing It
2007-04-02 14:16:56

Sorry but I looked it up and that title was patened by the city of Detroit.

 
Comment by Chad
2007-04-02 14:19:38

LOL TX. How is Dallas doing? Any trends to speak of (i.e. downward price spiral)? My brother in law moved into that ridiculous W tower downtown with his wife, and I’m curious about how F*cked they’d be if they didn’t have her dad’s money.

 
 
 
Comment by BanteringBear
2007-04-02 13:30:00

These out of town “experts” and their proclaimed knowledge isn’t limited to real estate. These sh!t for brains types can also be heard yammering away about local politics, lifestyle trends, you name it. A terribly annoying bunch they are.

 
Comment by chicagobubbleblog
2007-04-02 13:32:41

Agreed. At the same time however, the locals are so blinded due to their investment in the area that they aren’t a good gauge of what the local market will do.

Talk to the downtown Chicago yuppies and you’ll hear a steady stream of local jingoism that makes you think everyone here was baptized a Branch Davidian (Church of Lereah).

Comment by az_lender
2007-04-02 13:56:34

I agree. I’ve taken to assenting to a lot of “it’s different here” talk just to keep myself from being too unpopular. I love to regale people with the impending bulge in the ARM reset rate, and then to “admit” that “your area” will probably hold up better than others. I always sincerely believe the first part of my diatribe, only rarely believe in my reassurance about their area. You would think I’m a realtor type, but it’s really just that I don’t want to get in a fight.

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Comment by KiMoJo in the SLC
2007-04-02 15:10:45

I know what you mean. People in Utah are still high from their 23% YOY hike…I don’t want to harsh their buzz. Well, actually I want to, but like you, I don’t want to get in a fight.

 
 
Comment by chicagobubbleblog
2007-04-02 13:59:32

Here are some examples of what I spoke about above from a local Chicago board:

“…The fact of the matter is that Chicago is becoming more and more like Manhattan everyday…”

“Chicago’s history of being a testing ground for the new, and its pride in having super-talls, cries out for continuation of striving for the tallest and best. That is why we are a ‘Mecca’ to so many architectural enthusiasts.”

“There is a great amount of luxury inventory in the mid-to-upper price ranges; they’re like little puppies just waiting to be adopted by a nice family. Aggressively priced well constructed homes are selling like hotcakes - and they will continue to do so.”

I saved the best for last…

“First of all, it’s different here. A lot of people want to live in Chicago…Secondly, real estate always goes up in value. Those condos may not sell as quickly or for as much as the developers hope, but if they wait long enough, they’ll still make a kililng.”

I could go on for ever with quotes like this.

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Comment by kpom
2007-04-02 14:05:11

“A lot of people want to live in Chicago…”

…particularly in mid-January.

 
Comment by Groundhogday
2007-04-02 14:49:12

“… a lot of people want to live in Chicago.”

The reason this phrase is so effective is that there are a lot of nice places to live in this country, RE values have gone up in all of these palces, and most people in these places do want to live where they live. So on an local and personal level, an uninformed citizen could easily perceive a causal relationship between “this is a great place to live” and “RE has been appreciating like crazy here”.

Unfortunately, I guessing that on a proportional basis, people don’t want to live in Chicago any more now than they did 7 years ago. So much for that causal relationship.

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-04-02 14:51:24

Chicago, the only city where circumnavigating the potholes necessitates driving a Hummer.

 
Comment by Bad Chile
2007-04-02 14:56:27

“…The fact of the matter is that Chicago is becoming more and more like Manhattan everyday…”

Wait! The Boston Globe said that the Hub of the Universe was the next Manhattan just the other day!!!

 
Comment by AKRon
2007-04-02 18:35:49

“I think that’s how Chicago got started. A bunch of people in New York said, ‘Gee, I’m enjoying the crime and the poverty, but it just isn’t cold enough. Let’s go west.’”
–Richard Jeni

 
Comment by Brian in Chicago
2007-04-03 07:01:52

“…The fact of the matter is that Chicago is becoming more and more like Manhattan everyday…”

Oh great! You mean we’ve stopped using alleys and underground roads for garbage trucks and are now tossing our trash cans right out onto the sidewalks in front of our trendy restaurants? Does wonders for that appetite!

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2007-04-03 07:28:21

Please!

I lived in Chicago for 8 years, and Manhattan for just a little less. Still live in Manhattan.

Chicago is a cultural backwater compared to New York, and the salaries just don’t compare. So the idea that Chicago is the new Manhattan is so flawed that it’s downright silly.

It’s a great town but there’s that little issue of Jan and Feb!

(Which is not to say I wouldn’t move back if I got my current salary there.)

 
 
 
Comment by Betamax
2007-04-02 14:18:55

Jeff at SDCIA has been mining equity from his SLC houses to pay the neg cash flow on all his other houses. Guess that’s about to dry up.

 
Comment by homoaner
2007-04-02 15:47:10

I have a niece who moved to Arizona from MN and immediately decided she could make a killing in real estate. She believed the local rubes were just too stupid to see the potential big money. So she and her dad got taken for a ride by a nice, honest Mormon rancher who saw them coming. They refinanced their homes to put money down on the land they’d bought, utterly certain that a developer would hustle right along and take it off their hands at a nice profit.

Now, two years later, the only offer they’ve received on the land is for one-fourth the amount they bought it for.

Yep, let those know-it-all outsiders come and be clipped!

Comment by dude
2007-04-02 18:12:24

The value of a property is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. The “honest” mormon took for his land what the market would bear at that point in time. Is that dishonest?

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Comment by 85249 is Toast
2007-04-02 12:56:55

here not only is a land-buying opportunity now but the chance to hire superintendents in short supply during the boom

Buggy whip manufacturers are cheap to hire now as well. Sounds like a great opportunity!

 
Comment by lvreal_prop
2007-04-02 13:33:22

Its absurd that home prices in SLC are the way they are. I cannot fathom that they have risen to such lofty heights and shudder to think of the long term consequences. Being a native I’m all too familiar with the lousy jobs that pay horrible unless your in medicine or lawyering. I’d probably say your average joe makes 25-30K a year. The only reason I’m in LV is the wages, otherwise I’d move back in a heartbeat.

Once again, investors from other bubble states moved in and ruined the housing market there as well.

Nothing was left sacred in the misadventure in credit expansion.

Comment by Blue Falcon the FBs
2007-04-02 14:45:26

We’re still getting quite a bit of the “Its different here” talk from the local shills since the problems in surrounding states haven’t hit us here yet. SLC was way down on the investors desirable list and really didn’t get hit by the investor appreciation until 2004-2005 when other markets were topping out. Its a little early to tell but I think we topped out at the end of last year or the beginning of this year. We are just now starting to see inventories rise and prices level out and with credit tightening SLC will fall just as fast as other places. Its going to get ugly here soon enough.

Comment by KiMoJo in the SLC
2007-04-02 15:28:16

Like I love to remind everyone, too many single-income households, poor money management skills as a culture in general, too many 21-year-old newlyweds having babies and needing to OWN a home because they’re grown ups now, (young credit = subprime credit). Oh, and not enough people from out of state think it’s worth it here to sustain this crap. The skiing and hiking can only get us so far in terms of appeal.

Our friends built at Daybreak a couple years ago, and they like to remind us that the house they built for ~250k is now “worth” $320k. They’re very young, no rich parents, no savings, and probably financed 100%. He makes no more than $45k annually and she stays at home. They have hardly any furniture, a 14″ tv on a coffee table in the living room, he eats leftovers at lunch every day…it’s so depressing.

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Comment by happyrenter
2007-04-02 17:09:41

The “it’s different here” talk is getting so old. I visited an open house this weekend and the realtor said that at the most recent realtors gathering, they were told that Utah still has a way to go (10% by their estimate). He also said that real estate on average in UT has grown 4-5% a year. Someone has not been doing their homework… it’s more like 2-3% and for many years here it was as flat as a pancake.

The reckoning will be interesting. I for one will be glad to see the end of these starter condos/townhomes that are in the low 300’s. I know CA, AZ and LV are much higher comparitively but for UT this is ridiculous. Our household income is in the top 10% but even with a large chunk of savings we cannot *comfortably* afford what they are now calling “starter homes” in the mid-to-high 300s. I don’t know how others making the median income are doing it and expecting to make it long term…

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Comment by in Colorado
2007-04-02 20:41:08

Wow, Utah has left Colorado in the dust. You can get a condo or a small house out here for 150K.

 
 
 
Comment by mrquoi
2007-04-02 15:58:00

I hear ya lvreal_prop. My husband and I really seriously considered moving “home” to SLC a few years ago. So we lined up the job interviews and I was offered 40% of my CA salary and my husband was offered about 70% of his.

I have to admit that my happy moment in this crash will be when some of my relatives finally stop going on and on about how much money everyone they know is making on RE. It’s disgusting.

 
 
 
Comment by Incredulous
2007-04-02 12:37:11

The word “opportunistic” is today most frequently used to describe certain bacterial and viral infections. Kind of fitting, I guess.

 
Comment by emcee
2007-04-02 12:43:21

Why would builders be deterred by “high prices”?

2007-04-02 12:57:35

Perhaps they meant “affordability issues”

 
 
Comment by mad_tiger
2007-04-02 12:48:36

“…if the secondary market will not accept a loan made to a certain borrower, in most cases it can’t be made.”

That’s the whole mess in a nutshell. Retail borrowers have no concept that it was Wall Street, with an assist from Alan, fueling this credit/housing bubble.

Comment by az_lender
2007-04-02 13:58:40

Hence the relative safety of my posture as a direct lender. The market in which I lend was not much supported by loan-packaging.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2007-04-02 12:53:11

“We’re gonna need a bigger boat” :(

Comment by turnoutthelights
2007-04-02 13:04:47

‘Das Mortgage Boot’ - alone in a sea of debt, the chilling tale of a mortgage that went underwater, because it was designed that way.

Comment by az_lender
2007-04-02 14:28:05

And in line with the actual film Das Boot, if the boat surfaces in its home port it will be blown up.

 
 
Comment by auger-inn
2007-04-02 14:02:48

Jaws?

Comment by implosion
2007-04-02 14:30:55

Oh yeah.

Comment by AKRon
2007-04-02 18:47:53

Or like the candiru fish:

“When the candirú successfully invades a human, it proceeds exactly as it would with a fish host. After entering the misidentified orifice, it quickly wriggles its way in as far as possible, often accompanied by the victim’s frantic attempts to grip the slippery, mucus-coated tail. In the unlikely event that the panicked victim manages to grasp the fish, its backwards-pointing barbs would cause excruciating pain at each pull, and bring a quick end to the dramatic tug-of-war. Once inside, the parasite inches its way up the urethra to the nearest blood-gorged membrane, extends its spines into the surrounding tissue, and starts feasting.”

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=797

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Comment by Austrian School
2007-04-02 12:53:12

“He eventually found another buyer who did qualify, but only after a frustrating delay of several months.”

Not to mention price reduction.

 
Comment by 85249 is Toast
2007-04-02 12:54:34

Housing analysts say there is a risk in moving into a home-building market (Phoenix) that is trying to get back on its feet after the excesses of a boom.

Trying to get back on its feet? We haven’t even hit the mat yet!

 
Comment by Reluctant Relocator
2007-04-02 13:02:16

What the hell is that couple in Utah THINKING? Who does that loan!?

7.25% 2/28? JEEZUS =o

Comment by turnoutthelights
2007-04-02 13:07:36

Oh, my guess is that much is left off the story. Taking out your ‘equity’ to purchase a rope to hang yourself with makes as much sense.

Comment by LaLawyer
2007-04-02 16:19:33

LOL! Too funny. But frighteningly true. Good metaphor for exactly what these FEEs (F’d Equity Extractors) are doing.

 
 
 
Comment by TRich
2007-04-02 13:04:21

“‘The lending standards kept changing, and eventually they didn’t qualify anymore,’ he said. ‘I think lenders are overanalyzing things to the point of being ridiculous.’”

Does this guy know what the hell is going on right now? It’s like a German soldier wondering out loud why the machine gunners are spraying the beach on Normandy during D-Day.

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2007-04-02 13:40:08

‘I think lenders are overanalyzing things to the point of being ridiculous.’”

Which is easy to say when it’s not your money.

Comment by Dupontguy39
2007-04-02 13:54:21

I noticed that quote, too. There are still people out there who think that using even a modicum of common sense are “overanalyzing”.

but for me, the most telling selection is this one:

“An estimated one in 10 home loans, about 52,000 mortgages in Utah, is considered subprime. About one in five new home loans being granted in Utah fall into the subprime category.”

If I’m reading this correctly, it means that even now, after all this, the ratio of subprime mortgages as a percentage of total mortgages being currently issued is going UP!!! Is no-one learning anything from any of this?

Comment by BanteringBear
2007-04-02 14:28:48

“An estimated one in 10 home loans, about 52,000 mortgages in Utah, is considered subprime. About one in five new home loans being granted in Utah fall into the subprime category.”

That’s unbelievable. Of course, I suppose it’s no different than this gem:

“Three opportunistic home builders are jumping into metro Phoenix’s new-home market, undeterred by the glut of unsold houses and high prices left over from the housing boom.”

I guess there’s no end to the number of stupid people in this country.

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Comment by LaLawyer
2007-04-02 16:20:36

The buyers are going to get stupider, before they become smarter.

 
 
Comment by Blue Falcon the FBs
2007-04-02 14:59:47

Also from the story…

“It will take a small percentage of buyers out of the buyer pool, for sure” said Gary Cannon, president of the Salt Lake Board of Realtors. “But I don’t think the effect will be huge, because we still have a lot of other buyers out there.”

I don’t know about you but I don’t consider 20% drop in the pool of potential buyers to be small.

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Comment by implosion
2007-04-02 14:41:54

The same guy who had this to tell, “.. he experienced this while recently trying to sell an investment property in another state to a borrower who fell into the subprime category.”

So much is wrong with that statement. A subprime borrower borrowing for an investment property and someone was apparently going to lend to him? WTF is that sh*t? F*ck ‘em all, really.

 
 
Comment by arroyogrande
2007-04-02 14:41:39

‘I think lenders are overanalyzing things to the point of being ridiculous.’

Then *YOU* lend out your money with no money down, cash back at closing, no closing costs, on a depreciating asset, Alan Brymer of Provo. Tell you what…why don’t you go invest in an investment pool that still does the 100% down for sub-prime buyers?

 
 
Comment by packman
2007-04-02 13:06:13

Buried down in one of the later threads - SouthStar closed up shop. Couple of funny things on their website -

http://www.southstar.com/

“SouthStart Funding is one of the fastest growning mortgage lenders…”

hmmmm

Also note the logo on the rightmost tab. Looks an awful lot like “SOS” to me. Should have picked something else, I’m thinking.

 
Comment by Neddie
2007-04-02 13:08:12

“Starting another project in the same area would have the company competing with itself, risking price erosion, he said.”

Ummmm it’s the other (currently) 55k+ houses for sale they would be competing with might pose a problem with their business plan methinks. And price erosion has just begun in the valley of the sun.

 
Comment by mad_tiger
2007-04-02 13:13:39

I have a Gestalt thing going on with Ben’s title for this post. I keep seeing it and reading it without the “f”.

 
Comment by Blacque Jacques Shellacque
2007-04-02 13:13:53


William Starks said he had no idea he and his wife would enter the subprime world or have any trouble refinancing when they began the process in January. He knew they had a few blemishes on their credit record, but the couple was able to get a loan at a good rate a few years ago.

They had decided to refinance because they needed to cash out on some of their equity.

Hmmmmm…..I wonder what kind of need they had that would make them consider refinancing….?

 
Comment by samk
2007-04-02 13:14:20

“After that, their mortgage rate - and payment - could balloon.”

Hmmm. I wonder how likely that is?

 
Comment by dimedropped
2007-04-02 13:14:57

No project, no draw, no draw, close doors and pee on the fire.

 
Comment by mikey
2007-04-02 13:35:50

“The Arizona Governor’s Housing Forum in last September showed that ‘from 2000 to 2006, the median sales price of homes in Arizona increased by 74 percent, but during the same period median family income only increased by 15 percent.’”

Bet there are more than a few stupid people sitting in their HOTbox…watching each other SWEATING equity now. ha ha ha

 
Comment by MBRenter
2007-04-02 13:35:50

“William Starks said he and his wife decided to refinance because they needed to cash out on some of their equity.”

Is anyone else getting seriously peeved at the lack of investigative journalism going on today? The followup question to this statement is not “what happened next?” but is instead “WHY did you need to cash out your equity?”

Comment by az_lender
2007-04-02 14:04:27

Yeah yeah. One of my recent loans was to a person with a $36K debt (to me), who thinks she has $80K equity and wanted to “free up” $12K of her supposed $80K equity. It’s OK, I made the loan, the “comps” will probably fall by 25%-50% but I think I will still be covered. Hope I don’t have to live in it …

 
Comment by B-hamster
2007-04-02 14:35:26

Yeah, I saw this too.

Please differentiate between “wants” and “needs,” Bub.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-02 13:36:46

“William Starks said he and his wife decided to refinance because they needed to cash out on some of their equity. The whole process was supposed to take only a couple of weeks and provide them with a new fixed-rate loan with a higher balance in the low 6 percent range.”

I wonder how many other households are suddenly hearing the giant sucking sound of liquidity leaving the market, as their ability to liberate equity suddenly vaporizes into thin air? And how long it will take the MSM to realize that falling home prices follow rapidly tightening lending standards as the night follows the day?

Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-04-02 13:51:20

Like solid dry ice, the whole subprime market sublimated:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublimation_%28chemistry%29

 
Comment by libertas
2007-04-02 15:02:50

You cash out on equity by selling. What they are doing is borrowing against their equity. Controlling the language to remove the stigma of borrowing has been the slimeball marketers greatest success.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-04-02 15:53:21

The distinction matters little until RE stops going up…

 
 
 
Comment by crispy&cole
2007-04-02 13:54:10

***BREAKING NEWS***

FMT auditors resigns, stock taking AH…

2007-04-02 14:06:09

You’re better than CNBC!!

Comment by crispy&cole
2007-04-02 14:18:55

LOL

 
Comment by az_lender
2007-04-02 14:26:07

spkg of CNBC, anybody see Angelo Mozilo on there this morning? He claims Countrywide’s “mission” is to “put people in homes” … ha ha … nothing at all about how they have put homes beyond the reach of honest buyers.

 
Comment by rentor
2007-04-02 15:46:34

CNBC news is 15 minute delayed and negative news filtered to 90 seconds.

 
 
 
Comment by GPBlank
2007-04-02 14:56:27

Grant Thornton here too. Must be an executive decision to exit subprime audit engagements because of liability issues.

 
 
Comment by Richard Burns
2007-04-02 14:02:05

The East Valley Tribune from Arizona. “With home sales still languishing, Valley developers are holding off on building thousands of houses, focusing instead on purging excess inventory and reevaluating the market.”

They’ll be reevaluating the market for the next 5-10 years too…

 
Comment by mikey
2007-04-02 14:03:12

Melvin Udall: I’m drowning here, and you’re describing the water!

 
Comment by phillygal
2007-04-02 14:16:35

This blog is getting really good.

 
Comment by dimedropped
2007-04-02 14:31:03

Had a call today from a borrower who questioned our value of $275,000. He stated, “last year it appraised for $308,000.” I said, “I am not sure what to say other than we valued your house based on the recent sales.” I pointed out that the market is substantially different this year compared to last.

The guy said, ” Oh yes I know it is soft out there.” I said, ” what makes your house different from the market?” “Well, it is in really nice shape.’

“So basically I wasted $350.” “No sir, you got what you paid for with the $350. What you didn’t get was a loan. That would have cost you alot more.”

FYI the appraisal market is down about 50% since the subprime meltdown so I suppose we could assume that was the market share they had. I am not surprised at all. Actually I figured it was more.

 
Comment by crispy&cole
2007-04-02 14:42:41

****BREAKING NEWS****

LEND auditor resigns

Comment by GPBlank
2007-04-02 14:48:50

Who is it? Has LEND released year-end’s yet or are they one of those in still finalizing numbers?

Comment by GPBlank
2007-04-02 14:52:35

Got it - Grant Thornton. Another one bites the dust.

Comment by luvs_footie
2007-04-02 14:58:33

Implode-o-meter now on 47……….

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Nozferatu
2007-04-02 15:12:40

“‘Credit scores are so critical right now that every point matters,’ he said. ‘Even if you are one point off [from a minimum], there are no exceptions.’”

I’m sorry but what a bunch of fking hypocrits these banking bastards are. Now that they’re on their knees and puckered up, they’re holding on to their money? Man I hope they feel the pain.

 
Comment by Vmaxer
2007-04-02 15:20:47

“‘Credit scores are so critical right now that every point matters,’ he said. ‘Even if you are one point off [from a minimum], there are no exceptions.’”

When are these indiots going to get it. It debt to income that determines the ability to afford the loan, not credit scores. Someone with a good credit score may not be able to pay it back if their allowed to borrow more than they can afford.

Comment by Nozferatu
2007-04-02 15:49:10

This whole credit score thing is a scam anyway…it’s a HUGE money making mechanism and just a scare tactic to keep people in line. It’s the religious side to money. Have faith in this magic number and you’ll be OK. Just keep working like a freaking rat in a cage on a wheel to pay your debts OR you’re credit score will be doomed.

What a freaking scam. Man….it’s amazing how may people have really truly been had.

Comment by Paul
2007-04-02 20:48:24

Giggle,

My home went into foreclosure. Not my house, my home - I rent.

I declined to pay my last month’s rent, due to the fact that they hold my deposit, and I’m sure that’ll get me to the head of the line (in front of the Bank’s 1/2 mil debt).

Just last night, the deed assigned person representing the former owner (it’s a long story) showed up and I kicked him off the property. I had to call the cops. He took a swing at me. He was saying that I have to pay the rent - ain’t nobody can live for free.

So The real owner hasn’t paid mortgage for at least 6 months. She has my deposit equal to rent. And I’m screwing them?

He said they’re gonna F my credit. I put a fraud report on my SSN, but really, they can’t do squat without a court finding, and, having been foreclosed, they no longer have standing. Not to mention that I really don’t owe them anything.

I guess if he comes back, I’ll just have to defend myself, having already reported the prior incident to the police.

But I’m fairly confident they can’t touch my FICO.

Paul

 
 
 
Comment by Catherine
2007-04-02 15:37:59

“‘That is 10 times the average rate. Lenders got easy with money. Some people should not have had loans. They had adjustable rate mortgages or paid too much,’ he said.”

I cannot write an even semi-polite expression that expresses my DISGUST with that statement. That’s exactly why I walked from RE 2 years ago…
…this nonsense from realtors that “people should have not had loans”…makes me want to scream. THEY KNOW when a client can’t cut it. But they had lender buddies who were handing out free wine and cheese every Friday night and “learning” cruises every month. REALTORS made a sale happen even when they KNEW their client didn’t have a pot to piss in. And what’s with this “people paid too much”?….er, buddy, did that stop you from collecting that 6% of a “paid too much” close?? No WONDER realtors are so loathed right now.

 
Comment by Brad
2007-04-02 16:06:24

Alan Brymer, of Provo, said he experienced this while recently trying to sell an investment property in another state to a borrower who fell into the subprime category.”

“‘The lending standards kept changing, and eventually they didn’t qualify anymore,’ he said. ‘I think lenders are overanalyzing things to the point of being ridiculous.’”
——————————-
how about owner financing?

 
Comment by B
2007-04-05 12:49:48

The inventory levels have increased in Utah from about 9,000 late last year to over 12,000 currently. That’s about a 1/3 increase. Could the hot money speculators be heading for the exits? I believe that as soon as tha Utah job market goes south, there will be weeping and wailing and knashing of teeth.

 
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