Speculators Desperate To Avoid Foreclosure In California
CBS 5 reports from California. “A new survey shows Bay Area home listings jumped at one of the nation’s highest rates. Investors are placing properties on the market, trying to sell them before the busy summer selling season. And more homeowners, desperate to avoid foreclosure are placing their homes up for short-sale meaning they are being sold for less than the mortgage.”
“Anthony Germono is a real estate investor finding discounts among homes in foreclosure. ‘We are looking to get something on 80 cents on the dollar or less,’ Geronimo said.”
“These days there is a record amount of inventory to chose from. And, there’s an increase in properties listed by investors and families who are on the verge of losing their homes because of higher interest rates on adjustable mortgages. Realtor Andrew de Vries says these sellers are motivated.”
“‘If you can help those folks sell their property before it goes into default, it will actually help their credit,’ de Vries said. De Vries advises buyers to be sympathetic, because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.”
The Contra Costa Times. “As 1.1 million homeowners face foreclosure and financial ruin after the subprime mortgage market meltdown, a question remains: ‘Who is going to solve this mess?’ For those expecting a bailout from a federal subprime lender, they may be waiting awhile, experts say.”
“East Bay subprime borrowers who were more than 60 days late with their mortgage payment rose from 4.29 percent to 12.23 percent in February year-over-year. That number rose from 4.04 percent to 12.94 percent in Solano County year-over-year, Bob Visini of First American LoanPerformance said.”
“‘People have bought houses they can’t afford, period,’ said economist Christopher Thornberg. ‘So unless the government is going to give them $100,000 to $200,000 each, what option do they really have?’”
“Aside from lawsuits, there are few legal solutions for most homeowners defaulting on their mortgage, said Tara Twomey, counsel for the National Consumer Law Center.”
“One option is filing for bankruptcy, which can give the homeowner some time to deal with an imminent foreclosure, she said, but that is not a solution. And bankruptcy Chapter 13 does not allow for the modification of real estate debt, Twomey said.”
“‘If your mortgage wasn’t affordable the month before bankruptcy, it probably won’t be affordable the month after,’ she said.”
The Marin Independent Journal. “A prominent real-estate economist predicts that troubles will persist in the California housing sector throughout the year, but she said Marin’s unique market is weathering the downturn better than other areas.”
“‘It’s God’s country, what can I say,’ (said) Leslie Appleton-Young, chief economist for the California Association of Realtors. ‘When is the 30 percent decline in Marin County’s market going to happen? Not in my lifetime.’”
“Marin’s foreclosure activity nearly doubled in the fourth quarter of last year. By comparison, notices of default were up 134 percent in the nine-county Bay Area over the same period, DataQuick reported.”
“Statewide, default notices increased 145 percent year-over-year. In Merced, Placer and Santa Barbara counties, the increase exceeded 250 percent.”
“Recent foreclosure activity has apparently been brisk in Marin. According to Yahoo, dozens of foreclosures have been listed in Marin in the past two weeks alone.”
“Local real estate agents said they were encouraged by Appleton-Young’s talk. Vicki Buckle-Clark, an agent with Pacific Union in Greenbrae, described the market as ‘extremely unique.’”
“‘We can’t be lumped together with all the California statistics and the nationwide statistics,’ she said.”
The LA Times. “Americans are worried about the economy and believe that a recession is looming, but their faith in real estate remains fierce, according to a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll.”
“Scott Richard Wallace, a San Diego carpenter, doesn’t share that view. ‘Housing is always a good investment,’ he said in an interview after the poll. ‘I don’t see it ever losing.’”
“Housing experts were a little puzzled by the enthusiastic attitude of some respondents.”
“‘Mortgage credit is clearly tightening, affordability is not good and there are a record number of unoccupied homes for sale,’ said Scott Simon, a mortgage-bond fund manager for Pacific Investment Management Co. in Newport Beach. ‘We think prices should be down a few percent this year and, if we are wrong, it will be worse than that.’”
From News 10. “More than 100 units in a Sacramento-area condominium complex are headed into foreclosure in what appears to be a case of bad timing.”
“The company began converting the 242 units to ‘luxury’ condominiums. According to county records, sales started strong in October 2005 with 76 units sold in the final three months of the year.”
“But sales tapered off in 2006 and in the first three months of 2007 the group sold just one unit. The unpaid dues and penalties on each unit exceed $4,000, which indicates the company owes at least $750,000 in assessments.”
“Rollingwood condominium owners contacted by News10 were unaware that most of their neighboring units appear headed for public auction. ‘There goes the property value,’ said Sharon Morton, who paid $239,000 for her two-bedroom condo last fall.”
The LA Daily News. “Los Angeles is Southern California’s least overvalued residential real estate market while the Inland Empire is the third most overvalued in the nation, a market tracker said Tuesday.”
“When housing is overvalued, renting is a better economic option, the study notes.”
“The situation is a little more dicey in the Inland Empire, though. Jack Kyser, chief economist at the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp., said there was a land rush out there because of affordable prices but a lot of homes are on the market now.”
“‘A lot of investors bought second homes with the thought they would rent them out,’ he said.”
“‘Their prices (the Inland Empire) were running up and knocking them out of the affordable market. So maybe they will be coming back into the affordable range,’ Kyser added.”
“The study also looked at the relationship between changes in apartment rents and housing prices. For example, from 1990 to 1999 home prices in the Los Angeles area fell by 0.3 percent and rents increased 2.1 percent.”
“But from 2000 to 2006, home prices rose an annual 16.9 percent and rents moved up 7.6 percent. This growing spread suggests an overvalued housing market and that means renting is a more attractive economical option at this time.”
‘Real estate professors at USC’s Lusk Center say O.C. rents will rise 4 percent to 5 percent this year vs. a 5.9 percent hike in 2006. Reader Comments: ‘These comments about rent increases are bogus and anyone who knows their facts can avoid these increases. Just look at all the vacant units nearby.’
‘ Police serving a search warrant at the Modesto home couldn’t help but notice the fine décor. Most of the cases involved houses for sale. Many were owned by commuters who often weren’t home or had moved but left furnishings behind to help the house sell.’
‘Fliers advertising the houses apparently gave burglars a road map: Pasquale said they would look at photos showing interiors and ‘pretty much go shopping. They would say, ‘There is this table, this bed.’
Love the Marin comments. LAY is really hanging the old reputation out on that one. Check back in 2 years.
I think suicide is her only hope for seeing that prophesy come to pass.
How does that hyphenated world work?
I lelie appleton-young marries say, fred smith-jones, does she become leslie appleton-young-smith-jones?
lelie appleton-young marries say, fred smith-jones, does she become leslie appleton-young-smith-jones?
Shes just another politically correct new age two name scumbag.
Here’s how it works:
If They Married
If Yoko Ono married Sonny Bono, she’d be Yoko Ono Bono.
If Dolly Parton married Salvador Dali, she’d be Dolly Dali.
If Bo Derek married Don Ho, she’d be Bo Ho.
If Oprah Winfrey married Depak Chopra, she’d be Oprah Chopra.
If Cat Stevens married Snoop Doggy Dogg (hey, it’s the ’90’s!), he’d be Cat Doggy Dogg.
If Olivia Newton-John married Wayne Newton, then divorced him to marry Elton John, she’d be Olivia Newton-John Newton John.
If Sondra Locke married Elliott Ness, then divorced him to marry Herman Munster, she’d become Sondra Locke Ness Munster.
If Bea Arthur married Sting, she’d be Bea Sting.
If Liv Ullman married Judge Lance Ito, then divorced him and married Jerry Mathers, she’d be Liv Ito Beaver.
If Snoop Doggy Dogg married Winnie the Pooh, he’d be Snoop Doggy Dogg Pooh.
How about a baseball marriage? If Boog Powell married Felipe Alou, he’d be Boog Alou.
If G. Gordon Liddy married Boutros-Boutros Ghali, then divorced him to marry Kenny G., he’d be G. Ghali G.
Nog (Quark’s brother on “Star Trek: Deep Space Nine”) has no other name, so he uses it twice when getting a marriage license. IF he married Howard Hughes, and then Pamela Dare, he’d be Nog Nog Hughes Dare.
If Shirley Jones married Tom Ewell, then Johnny Rotten, then Nathan Hale, she’d be Shirley Ewell Rotten Hale.
If Jack Handy (SNL writer) married Andy Capp, then married Jack Paar, then moved on to Stephen King, he’d be Jack Handy Capp Paar King.
If Javier Lopez married Keiko the whale, and Edith Piaf married Rose Tu the elephant, they would be Javier Keiko and Edith Tu.
If Ivana Trump married, in succession, Orson Bean (actor), King Oscar (of Norway), Louis B. Mayer (of MGM), and Norbert Wiener (mathematician), she would then be Ivana Bean Oscar Mayer Wiener.
If Woody Allen married Natalie Wood, divorced her and married Gregory Peck,divorced him and married Ben Hur, he’d be Woody Wood Peck Hur.
If Dolly Parton married Tommy Smothers, then went even further back in show business and married Mr. Lucky, then divorced and married Martin Short,then divorced and married football kicker Ray Guy, we could all nod understandingly when we heard, Dolly Parton Smothers Lucky Short Guy.
The wife’s name isn’t passed to her children in American culture, so everyone is born with only one last name, wich is their father’s.
In some cultures, the children inherent their mother’s last name followed by their father’s last name. When the children then have offspring of their own, it is the VERY LAST one (their father’s) that goes to their kids. Just like DNA strands. So Mary Smith-Jones marries Fred Williams-Black, and their kid is named Baby Jones-Black.
I’m guessing that Leslie is married. Her maiden name was probably Appleton, and her husband’s name is probably Young. If she has offspring, the will probably just be named Young.
Another possibility is that she is from one of those DNA-naming cultures. In that case, her name will not change when she marries Mr. Fuddy-Duddy. Their childrens’ last name will be Young-Duddy.
I think I know now.
Try saying Vicki Buckle-Clark real fast a dozen times.
incessant_din, I don’t know how old Leslie is. If she’s (let’s say) 97, her prediction could be correct.
one of the best ones is Amy Crews-Cutt from fannie mae (if i recall). am i the only one who laughs out loud and thinks of the old man (semper fi!) when i hear that?
dd
I used to work with an Asian gentleman at the California Regional Water Quality Control Board - LA Region named Yue Rong. Best name ever.
Yue Rong
Aw, man. The first name is bad enough. “Hey, you!”
What she failed to say Marin had a 15% decline in 1991. I expect a much deeper decline.
Keep it up LAY! Keep yapping away!
With LAY yapping, can Watts be far behind?
So should we make an obscenly HIGH offer? Market value is what some F’d B wants to pay, not what the wishing price is.
wait now…wasn’t Liareah recently quoted as saying prices would fall in 2007 because of unsustainable lending? Even he’s finally caving in…
DL is a little bit more edumacated than LAY. Therefore he has finally begun to recede a little. Lay is just a stupid idiot.
I was thinking the same thing, LAY is going to have to either die by her own hand, someone else’s hand, or come down with a disease that kills her within about three years for her- as usual- well thought-out and reasoned predictions.
BTW, shouldn’t conflict of interest and bad predictions in the past alert journalists as to the accuracy of a source? What the hell do they teach at journalism schools? If I owned one of these media outlets I would forbid the hiring of any communications or journalism major. Every hire would either have 5 years work experience in a related field, or have an advanced degree and 2 years experience in a related field.
These journalists are totally inept. Who can’t go to interested sources, get their slant, and then regurgitate?
If I hear “It’s different here” one more time…..I’ll puke.
If I hear “luxury condo” one more time I’ll puke!!!
When is LAY just going to shut up finally. She has been a joke for months now. Every time she opens her pie hole I want to puke.
thank god for the internet and google. LAY’s comments will be cached forever so everyone can see what losers she and her posse of REIC clowns really are.
Is there any way that all of us here on this blog can email her and tell her what a dumbass she is. At least that way she would get hundreds of reminders about her stupidity.
We need a LAY Watch Blog! Just like the David Lereah Watch Blog!
Dont have to we already have a doc’d example of 20% decline
factor in 6% commission gets you over 4M loss on 21M purchase.
“It took almost four years, but retired tennis stars Andre Agassi and Steffi Graf finally have found a buyer for their Tiburon estate for $20 million, or about $3 million less than what they paid for it in 2001. “
txchick57:
LAY = Leslie Appleton-Young
‘When is the 30 percent decline in Marin County’s market going to happen? Not in my lifetime.’”
Leslie Simpleton Hung…$hit for brains with comment like that.
Look on the bright side. Six months ago she would have said that prices in Marin would not drop in her lifetime. Six months from now, she will say that Marin prices won’t drop 60% in her lifetime.
Even considering a 30% drop is progress, considering the source…
It does seem that prices in Marin County are dropping double digit on med. and sq ft. I see several declines hitting mid 30s %
http://www.dqnews.com/ZIPSFC.shtm
The OCR scrapes the comments at the end of their articles so the really good ones get flagged off or scraped by the editors.
“Anthony Germono is a real estate investor finding discounts among homes in foreclosure. ‘We are looking to get something on 80 cents on the dollar or less,’ Geronimo said.”
Bottom fishing can be hazardous to your wealth.
Not much of businessman or investor if 80 cents on the dollar is all he is looking for.
That guy is a friggin idiot…
You can’t call yourself a decent vulture at 80 cents on the dollar. In fact, it might be considerd philanthropy at 80 cents on the dollar.
You bet your a$$ in this market…
Right. Just try and imagine what other gems he has in his RE investment portfolio that he collected over the past few years.
Show me a guy who’s buying investment properties now and I’ll show you a guy that’s going to need a good BK attorney.
Not much compared to this dude who made $7 mil over 4 years flipping homes and assuming identities from all over, including the homeless.
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/stories/2007/04/11/0411metmortgage.html
yo Anthony… you jok’n or high on something?
80% only gets you to the wholesalers’ price, assuming, and thats a big honk’n assumption that the property is properly valued at 100%.
you’r a disgrace to bottom fishers everywhere…
got cash?
Right. In a NORMAL market most investors I know are looking for 70% of ARV.
With valuations all over the map, 80% might still be 10, 15, 30% too high.
There is so much mortgage fraud going on in Sacramento, the comps are unreliable. The “investors” are still paying over market, not knowing the supporting sale comps have mortgage fraud with $250,000 cash back!
I had an appraiser contact me about 20 houses he had under contract with a “desperate” builder. He could not understand why some of the comparable houses sold for $435,000, yet a month later, the same model sold for $685,000. I explained it to him in plain English. He ended up passing on the whole Sacramento market, saying it needed to cool for a couple of years before realistic values could be established again. There was so much New Century, Fremont, Option One, funny money, with 2nds pawned off to HSBC, that the market does not know which way is up. You will also be reading some interesting headlines from the FBI soon. New Century funded cash back deals right up to the day they shut down.
I did some follow-up on the Sacramento story earlier today:
Rollingwood Details
Speaking of Sac. fraud, is Paladin still alive? Someone implied that his site was down and I sure haven’t seen him post lately?
He’s not dead. Let’s just say he’s otherwise occupied.
I’m sure we’ll be hearing from him eventually.
Sure hope so. Seems like quite a few people & their housing-critical websites have disappeared. Still wondering what happened to “realestatehaircuts”…
This is the reason, IMHO, that none of the deals for sale like New Century, Option One and Resmae are going forward. I did quite a bit of work during the “RTC days” appraising large protfolios of defunct S&L’s, so that the bank I worked for at the time could make an educated bid on these for sale portfolios. Right now, none of the players who want these lenders portfolios know exactly what the value of the underlying r.e. actually is. Since they know the values are all over the place and that the real economic hurt is still on its way, they don’t want to overpay. The prices could easily go down more than 50% of 2006 prices, or back to 1996 prices and then overshoot some more. So the question is who wants to be the idiot to overpay and have all of his/her investors pissed for the rest of their life? Answer: Not many.
This is why when Appleton-Young claims that prices in a certain geographic area won’t drop, it is just white noise and silly. Just like none of us are buying right now, we are all basically bottom-feeders, waiting for the right time to get back in - the institutional investors who would be buying portfolios of loans or lenders, are also sitting on the sidelines. No one wants to overpay.
“I canna push her any faster Captain — She’s gonna blow!”
– Montgomery Scott
“‘It’s God’s country, what can I say,’ (said) Leslie Appleton-Young, chief economist for the California Association of Realtors. ‘When is the 30 percent decline in Marin County’s market going to happen? Not in my lifetime.’”
I’m going to throw up. Unbelievable that she could be so stupid to say such a thing. Does she have a brain in her tinly little overplucked head?
Marin County is the state capitol for arrogance. People who live there often think their crap no longer stinks. Besides, Leslie Appleton-Young (love the name) is a paid liar. Her words are worth less than nothng, at this point.
I thought the state capital for arrogance was Westwood or perhaps Santa Barbara or Mountain View.
That’s such a 1980s view of California. Marin and North SD/South OC are the capitals now.
“Bush began helping Enron in the eighties.”
Paul Begala
yeah, as a Bay Area resident I can attest to the Marin notion. Wealthiest county in the US according to the IRS. You get a lot of trustafarians and the poodle-in-a-purse crowd up there that are oblivious to almost everything.
This is from ‘02. Affluence ratings, has the top 5, not IRS.
http://tinyurl.com/2cenna
$45K in per capita income in Marin? That seems low.
“$45K in per capita income in Marin? That seems low.”
They’re counting the houseboat bums in Sausalito and the drug dealers that don’t report any income
No, txchick that would be Beverly Hills and Bel-Air
Speaking of BH… what do you make of the $500mil sale of The Rob-May site? Smart foreign investors or deluded fools? I don’t get it…
Deluded fools by a far far margin. But actually they got a deal considering some moron paid 350 million for a mall on Crenshaw not too long ago.
After reading these posts today I am fairly convinced that people have lost their friggin minds and any sense of friggin reality.
Me too… 350 mil for a mall on Crenshaw? WTF is gonna end this insanity?!?! Just when I think it’s cracking, this kinda crap pops up. The bulls are now crowing about how LA is now equal to Paris! London! NY! Guess all it takes is a bunch of expensive condos to become classy.
Today I read how one resturant owner in MV said …
“Castro St is just like North Beach (Little Italy of San Francisco”
$hit like this makes me sick… I been in this area since 70s.
What kind of idiot would make that statment. What a #uckface idiot. From what arrogant a$$hole did you get born out of maggot? You cant even get a Cannoli in Mountain View and dont even ask for a real Italian espresso.
Freaking Big Tony will wack you! Forget about it!
Such a passionate post. I love it! (a little more sarcasm and it would’ve been ideal!)
Is it as bad as Little Italy in Toronto? They show it on the map as Little Italy. We figured we would check out to see what Little Italy looked like north of the border. You get to that point on the map and there is a sign that says “Little Italy”. That’s it.
Nice post…shades of Surfer-X
Well the resturant count on Castro St MV is like this 2-3 Italian, 3 Indian, and the rest are asian (well over +60%).
The Italian spots are chain resturants.
I’ll go with tx and vote for sta barbara.
Coto de Caza
Newport Coast
Robin Williams lives in Marin, and even HE makes fun of it.
Factor in commission of 1.2M will get 4.3M loss on 21M purchase a 20% loss (decline) on an actual documented sale. Send some roses to LAY for me…
Agassi suffers a loss — in sale of Tiburon home
It took almost four years, but retired tennis stars Andre Agassi and Steffi Graf finally have found a buyer for their Tiburon estate for $20 million, or about $3 million less than what they paid for it in 2001.
The deal is expected to close the first week in January, according to Bill Bullock, whose firm Decker Bullock represents Agassi and Graf.
The 3 1/2-acre site — complete with a 10,500 square-foot main house, a 2,500 square-foot staff quarters, two swimming pools, a stream and, of course, a tennis court — boasts views of the Golden Gate Bridge and the San Francisco skyline”
She learned from the best….fresh from cnn.com: “We still forecast 2007 to be the fourth highest year on record for existing-home sales, and housing remains a great long-term investment,” Lereah said.
I thought God’s country was Potter County, Pennsylvania?
Coudersport or bust!
Coudersport and north central Pennsylvania IS God’s country and if I didn’t need to work I’d damn well consider living there, outside of the winter months.
It’s one of the few places left that hasn’t been polluted by the illegal immigration wave.
Take PA 144 north from Interstate 80, and you’re instantly in a different world. I’ve been there and I like it. A LOT.
Just avoid the Aryan compound - yikes. And you’re right about not needing to work - there aren’t many jobs.
AND it has cheap housing, like $40-50K for something decent (other places, Coudersport is more expensive actually). I actually was checking prices throughout the northern tier of PA a couple of weeks back.
You can find multi-unit buildings all over northern PA and the southern tier of NYS that cashflow positive, and that most of here could easily pay 100% cash for.
Punxsutawney, PA is where it is at…Rent on a newly remodled 2 bedroom house is a whopping $400. per month.
Jobs are hard as heck to find, but if you work for a Fortune 500 company that needs a rep in the area it is golden if you are that Rep.
Just don’t try to flip a house, because most of them seem to sit on the market forever, even if they are only 50k.
My folks live in the northern tier of PA. They’ve had their own bubble. One gentleman I know showed up at an auction and left shaking his head because the starting bid was higher than he could have imagined.
The guy who bought a farm behind my folks’ — guess what? — cash from speculating downstate. A rolling bubble, indeed.
Here in the southern tier, if you’re a buyer, they assume you are from DC
Well out of town the values are going crazy here as well, but it is due to a massive influx of Eastern PA Amish. Farms that would have gone for 200k aq few years ago are now going for 500k if they have natural gas wells.
I love that area too. My family has a hunting camp that I try to get to every time I’m back in the ‘Burgh. Going up there is one of the many things I am looking forward to when I move back to PA. The last time I was there we drove over to McKean county and I had the best steak and shrimp for $13.95 at some great little local restaurant the name of which escapes me. The kicker was drinking Straub beer on tap for a $1.50.
The restaurant was in Port Allegany if anyone on this blog actually knows where that is.
I’ve been there! I’ve been to Eldred, Coudersport, in fact I may have even ate at that resturant. I used to be a car repossessor in NW PA a few years back. Like that Johnny Cash song, I’ve been everywhere (in NW PA).
Boy are you guys dumb.
Everyone knows it’s Bakersplat.
I thought Gods country was in Oregon. Nevertheless, this bimbo has lost her mind, or maybe I’m assuming too much.
Oregon has the country’s highest percentage of acknowledged atheists. So it’s more like People-Who-Ignore-God Country.
My kinda place.
Same here…
Now if only the sections of TN and KY I’m looking at would covert to atheism, it would be heaven on earth. I can dream.
Ditto this part of Carolina.
Wow
Why does it matter what religion others follow - unless you’re a bigot.
No, what matters is what religion others don’t follow. For example Christians are supposed to love their enemies, tell the truth, not be greedy, regard all human beings as equal, etc.
Why does it matter what religion others follow - unless you’re a bigot.
If they pass laws affecting my freedom, then it matters.
“‘It’s God’s country, what can I say,’
Ever hear of God sending a plauge Honey ?
“Whoever is detected in a shameful fraud is ever after not believed even if they speak the truth”
Phaedrus
How many great quotes have been shared on this board? The number is mind-boggling. I used the Upton Sinclair quote about “difficult to get a man to believe” with a co-worker today. She was very impressed. Her son is in construction in PA and says things will keep booming. I shot back that quote.
Great job everybody. We do well when we all share what we know. Here’s a quote for all the FBs out there.
“You better start swimmin’ or you’ll sink like a stone
For the times-they-are-a-changin’”
- Bobby Zimmerman - Hibbing, MN
Last time I checked, “Bobby” was living in a house on Point Dume in Malibu. I imagine the royalty checks are still coming in…
That’s why he tours all the time. He hates California.
smlandlord, I could be wrong, but I think he lives on Margarita or one of the streets nearby in your hometown. Strangely he owns 18th street cafe (is that the name?) on Broadway, which has a boxing gym in the basement. I was there the other day and Gary Shandling popped up from the gym, glazed in sweat. Surreal.
Surreal or nauseating?
Marin — Gods country!
Thats where John Walker was born and raised, he later joined the Taliban and fought with the al-Qaeda against his own country!
The word is “plague.” Good gracious, spelling is bad on this blog!
Good gracious? Well golly Beev, that’s just swell.
Yeah, very funny, but come on, folks, is it really that hard to double-check your spelling before hitting the “Add Comment” button?
My favorite misspelling on HBB is “moron.” Many HBB’ers spell it as “maroon” which can actually be quite an appropriate word choice when used as a verb to describe the state of the FB. Embrace the misspellings!!
redhead, we seem to have developed some sort of agreement here not to criticize spelling/typing/grammar very often. When in Rome …
Maroon is the preferred spelling of Bugs Bunny, and that’s good enough for me.
When someone says “maroon” I just assume that it is in reference to Bugs Bunny as in “what a maroon!”, that’s how I use it.
“redhead, we seem to have developed some sort of agreement here not to criticize spelling/typing/grammar very often. When in Rome …”
Thanks for the tip. In the future, I’ll try harder to keep my editing compulsion under control. It’s what I do for a living. Sorry for stepping on toes.
HaHa—-”Maroon”—–I never knew about the Bugs Bunny reference!!! What a clever crowd I hang with!
I use maroon all the time. Bugs and Daffy still crack me up!
Hey Redhead68, I share your compulsion. I used to raise my hand in 6th grade to correct my teacher’s spelling on the blackboard. She didn’t appreciate it. My colleagues and staff don’t appreciate it either, but I still can’t help myself. Raises my blood pressure to hold it all in. I am smart enough, though, to keep my mouth shut when my boss spells resource with an “s”.
Sometimes Bugs would say, “What an ultra-maroon!”
hows the grammar?
LOL, good point!
She’s fine. Arthritis getting worse though.
Oh Bill, that was funny!
‘When is the 30 percent decline in Marin County’s market going to happen? Not in my lifetime.’”
Leslie,
We want you in jail for fraud. To suffer financially. I do not wish an early death upon you. No, I wish you to see the havoc you have wrought.
Be carefull what you wish for Leslie… you might get it. For prices will drop 30%. Credit is going to tighten up that much.
Got popcorn?
Neil
That is nothing compared to Auger-Inn’s post a while ago regarding LAY’s future profession.
It was something about 3 doors down from Hussong’s Cantina and a secret doorknock to get in…
It was something about 3 doors down from Hussong’s Cantina and a secret doorknock to get in…
ROTFL.
From Auger-Inn I can just… we’ll, maybe I don’t want to go there.
donkey?
ROTFL
I had a picture of Shrek walking in at a “bad time.”
Hey:
No more of this sexist BS, allright? No one is augering that DL will be selling his a$$, are they?
Make that alright. Don’t want any spelling Nazis to catch me.
augering and a$$ in the same sentence, I love it. A slip I’m sure
All right.
That’s because Lereah’s A-double-snakes won’t be worth much in prison. Maybe he can trade it for a pack of smokes.
When is the 30 percent decline in Marin County’s market going to happen? Not in my lifetime.’”
Does she think she is a Fly?
maybe she is hiding a terminal disease
‘When is the 30 percent decline in Marin County’s market going to happen? Not in my lifetime.’
I agree with you all about how disgusting her comments are, but I find it interesting that to elicit that kind of response someone in the audience or a journalist asked her a very pointed question that was unthinkable a few months ago. Someone asked “When are prices coming down 30% in Marin? It has not happened yet, but obviously people are beginning to think it’s not a matter or if, but when.
Me too.
“God’s country” as opposed to the rest of the United States which is what, “Godless country”? I’m betting there are more than a few folks up there in Marin who have found very unique ways of sinning.
“‘If you can help those folks sell their property before it goes into default, it will actually help their credit,’ de Vries said. De Vries advises buyers to be sympathetic, because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.”
This statement alone will push the comments on this thread to 300+!
I agree kicking someone when they are done is bad Karma, but I don’t consider this as such. It’s just business. Take the offer or leave it! There are plenty that will. They have a choice. Dump the de-appreaciating asset, oh I mean liability, or ride it down to “debts” of hell. Pun intended.
Since we’re all adults here, I’m going to be completely honest… I DO kick people when they’re down, often in the groin. Sometimes I jump upon their backs and ride them around like human surfboards, yodelling and hooting like a striped-ass baboon. When I decide to buy a house, the seller will have to buy me some squirrels to feed, shave my back and give me a farewell piggy-back ride around the neighborhood before they give me the keys. Just kidding! I don’t really want the squirrels.
cmon man Im still at work
Cigar Guy
Loved the post. The bit about the squirrels was Great. Now to get the cookies and milk off of my computer screen LMAO
Are you sure you don’t want some squirrels? We have plenty…
hit one w/my car yesterday - one less
I think that’s a capital offense in SM
Where are the steel-toed boots?
Can I have your squirrels, then?
piggyback ride - now THAT’S funny - ROTFL
OMG ROFLMAO! I’m actually not technically laughing ’cause I have an upper respiratory infection. It’s more like strained high pitched wheezing with a few coughs thrown in.
Best post ever. And the truth!
Like - I guess there was nothing obscene about high asking prices ?
Sympathetic? By overpaying? I’m sympathetic by not trying to help the lender build a case for fraud. Where is the sympathy by not asking obscenely high prices. I have a raft of that kind of evidence on the market right now. $450K for a 900sf 1940s home in a sketchy neighborhood?
One of my many overhoused cousins asked me for a re-fi. Sorry, no way. Guilt/sympathy caused me to write a check for $300 — a gift — towards her highest-interest CC’s. I could afford a lot more, but I would just be “enabling” a chronic overspender.
az_lender, will you adopt me as a cousin? I will learn to be irresponsible if I can have some of those free $300 checks.
NYCB: no, but if you want a free weekend at my seaside house in Maine, it could be arranged. I am always thinking it would be fun to meet somebody from The Blog. Can bring your wife or whatever.
We would do that. As long as there is no kinky stuff involved. My wife and I talk about going to Maine all the time.
You can email me at nycityboyhbb@nyc.rr.com . Maybe this will work out and maybe it won’t. It’s not a date. NYCityBoy is straight.
Hey, you two swingers may want to find another blog.
That’s funny ex-nnv. Just so long as it doesn’t end up like last week’s episode of the Sopranos we will be fine. Tony found out how badly you can get hurt even playing with play houses.
Not only will I kick them while they’re down, I’ll beat their dead horse as well.
rape, pillage, and plunder - oh my!
” sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.”
Obscenely low?? How about no offers?? Nada?? Then you can pay that obscenely high mortgage on a house you no longer own for the next 30 years.
Exactly.
This attitude that low offers is an “insult” has me furious. Hence why I’m not on the sidelines. I’m way up in the stands spectating. Sellers aren’t ready yet.
And yes, this one statement will kick comments up. To over 500?
Got popcorn?
Neil
It’s a fair point. The well-mannered thing to do is save the lowballs for the trustee once the property is REO. Allow the FBs to be foreclosed upon with sme dignity.
That’s funny.
I’ll beat their dead horse as well.
And then steal it so they can lock the barn door afterwards.
HAN:
Best joke yet.
What a friggin joke this guy is. Nah just kicked out the door…by the sheriff after foreclosure proceedings. Sometimes I think some of these quotes are made up but then I realize it’s coming from the REIC.
REaltors=quickly becoming lower than ambulance chasers and used car salesmen.
They would have happily kicked young new buyers with obscenely high asking prices. The shoudl be giving thanks and praises for any offers they might get.
Would have? They have been for a few years now. What about all their little requests, like the need for a polite letter telling the sellers why they should deign to sell their house to you, or making you feed the squirrels.
This kind of stuff makes me physically ill, these cries for mercy when it was the same types who spent these last few years running the market into the sky. Douglas Adams said the key to flying was throwing yourself at the ground and missing. These days, it looks like the market’s aim is improving…
“obscenely low offers”
Your Women ! , Sell us your Women !
Sell em? Hell I’ll bet more than a few of these “desparate flippers” would thrown them in with the deal for free
What did I just say about the sexist BS? Women are the spice of life and life itself. You will worship us or perish.
How, exactly, did you get the handle Big V?
I was wondering when somebody was going to ask that question. Thanks, imploder.
that was implosion
imploder already knows big V stands for big viagra
‘How much for the women, for the little girl?’ Then they start throwing the food to each other, link arms and drink the Dom.The Blues Bros always gets their man. Was he the trumpet player?
That is funny. I was watching Living with the Kombai show on Discovery channel, where two English guys live with natives on New Guinea.
One of the English guys asks how many pigs does it take to buy a wife?
The clan leader says, “Your question does not make sense. We would never buy women with pigs. That is what dog’s teeth are for.”
It was funny in a two worlds colliding type of way.
How much fer da little girl?
De Vries can kiss my ass. No one was telling sellers to be sympathetic to buyers during the frenzy; they were told to write letters to the sellers and promise to feed the squirrels. Sorry, but the only way anyone should even consider buying right now is with “obscenely” low offers to buffer against the continuing fall in prices. And since sellers don’t believe that prices will plummet 50% they would consider such offers obscenely low, when in reality these offers are just ahead of their time. The fact that these FBs overpaid for a house that they can’t afford is not my problem, and I certainly am not going to be sympathetic to them because it is due to fools like this that the market got so out of whack that, for my own financial well-being, I had to put off buying a house (which is a goal of mine) for several years.
Here Here…
Someone should find some of De Vries’ listings and post them here. We’ll discuss some offers and see where it goes from there.
Ask and you shall receive. Here are the listings from de Vries’ website:
http://tinyurl.com/2sksqc
From his home page:
Specializing in Sales of Single Family Homes, Condos, Tenants-in-Common, Probate, Estate, Trust, and Multi-Unit Investment Properties in San Francisco, Alameda, Contra Costa and San Mateo Counties.
While there are many choices in real estate, some people still want to work with #1 - In 2005 and 2006, out of more than 3500 realtors in San Francisco I was among the top 30 realtors (1%) in terms of the number of area homes sold - Call me today to find out how this translates to more money for sellers and more value per dollar spent for buyers!
——————–
How can he specialize in so many types of transactions and in four counties? And, yeah, I want to find out how his skills as a “real estate sales professional” (his words) can achieve both “more money for sellers” and “more value per dollar spent for buyers.” I guess it’s like the NAR’s philosophy - it’s a good time to buy and sell.
“…can achieve both “more money for sellers” and “more value per dollar spent for buyers.””
Like many in the industry, he appears to be a RE hermaphrodite.
I agree 100% and he can kiss my gnarly arse after yours. These scum were the first to look down their now lengthening noses at anyone who cried foul to toxic lending and stratospheric prices. They treated us fiscal conservatives as pariahs or financial Luddites who just didn’t get it because “it was different this time”. By their actions and greed they destroyed communities and now those deeds are coming back upon them threefold. There is no reason to show sympathy, there is no reason to even make an offer. The quickest path out of this mess is straight down. No offers, no mercy.
I’ll have no trouble insulting these moron FBs again. I bought my OC beach shack from the trustee at 30 cents on the borrowed dollar back in ‘94; unfortunately the land wasn’t for sale that the POS sits on. I had to defend myself in ‘05 and buy land somewhere (chose PDX) due to these irresponsible borrowers. I plan to volunteer my time in the future if necessary to help throw the book at all of them. Anyone who lied on the credit application deserves a felony, and I will push to punish these aHoles since I was wronged by their behavior and I want to kick anyone who didn’t follow the rules as hard as I can when they’re down.
Got diversified assets and debt to equity ratio of less than 1:1?
Hey Waiting, on the theoretical level I completely agree with you, of course. The problem comes in on the individual level. A lady I have worked with for about a year, and really like, is putting her RSM 1-1 condo on the market next week. She bought it two years ago, and told me that she doesn’t have unreasonable expectations about profit - she’d even be happy if she just “breaks even.” She’s selling because her ARM is resetting and she can’t afford the new payment.
We all know where this is headed, of course. A 1-1 in RSM bought in 2005? My friend ain’t no-how, no-way gonna walk out of this in one piece. As for the nameless sheeple, I couldn’t care less. But for my friend at work, I feel bad and am really worried about her.
Irvinesinglemom,
I hope your friend does ok.
Alas… one individual is a tragedy.
A million is a statistic.
We’ll see, feel, hear about this all the way down.
My friends are smart and most sensible. I expect about a third of them to file BK.
Do I want that? No. Is is avoidable? No.
This went too far for too long.
Neil (sans popcorn for this post)
Sympathy doesn’t matter.
The bank accepts the short-sale lowball offer or it doesn’t. If it doesn’ t, the seller loses the house to foreclosure. The end. So their credit score eats it, so what? Like that’s a huge hit?
The lender doesn’t care about the seller’s credit, why should I?
I tried to help someone by making a short-sale offer, the bank rejected it, foreclosed, took the house, and tried to sell it themselves. Just bidness…
Coddling these people will only encourage idiotic behavior in the future. What goes for biological evolution also goes for the proper allocation of resources in an economy.
I’m not going to buy an American car simply because it’s American. I’ll buy whatever car provides the best combination of reliability, performance, economy, and utility for my purposes. I’m not going to reward a company for putting out crap because of some kind of bias or sympathy.
On the same token, if you bail out these idiots and allow them to get out scott-free, not only does it misallocate resources, but the lesson will not be learned in the future by these same people and others associated with them. A number of people involved with the SL crisis were the originators of the current mortgage mess. Obviously they weren’t kicked enough when they were down. These bozos need to lose the money, claim bankruptcy if they have to, and take the hit on their credit reports.
When I saw that video clip on that site, quite frankly I blew a gasket. There is no excuse for that kind of stupidity. What do you care if you’re offending the seller. He gave control of the situation to the bank. He doesn’t even have a say anymore. From this point forward whenever someone calls me for counseling on what to offer on a short sale. I’m going to tell them to offer 60% off list and negotiate up to 50%. If the bank doesn’t like it move on and offer them 60% off of what they foreclosed on when they took it back at sale. I have half a mind to start a website called “hit’em at 60% off” bet that will piss some folks off.
That agent should be smacked…
“This statement alone will push the comments on this thread to 300+!”
- Schumer announced the bailout
- The NAR announced prices will drop.
- Mortgage bad news is flooding the MSM.
I think this thread will break an HBB record. I think the Bears feel that today is Waterloo for the bulls. Once the government is this far out there, you know the damn thing is dead. Would David Lereah, Leslie Appleton-Young, Gary Watts and the rest of you real estate trolls kindly identify the body so we can dispose of it? This thing is starting to smell like a rotting fish in the August sun.
MSNBC is collecting personal stories of the “mortgage meltdown”.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17832512/
Go here and post your sob stories. Make them good.
Been lurking for over year…1st ever post.
“De Vries advises buyers to be sympathetic, because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.”
WTF!!! Where was his stupid ass when sellers were demanding insane ass prices for their POS homes?? Oh wait, he was too busy sitting and grinning and watching the money roll right in. When business was good, he didn’t give 2 shits about buyers extending themselves beyond financial reason just to get into a house. But now that times are tough and buyers priming for a trophy kill, this dipshit is now asking for understanding and sensitivity. Hell no, motherfucker…that shit won’t be happening when it’s my family’s turn to buy a house. I vow to the members of this blog that I will be kicking the sellers in the skull and stomping on their throats when it’s time for my family to buy in a few years. After the BS and humiliation my family has had to put up with the last few years….there’s no way in hell I will be playing nice with any seller. And there will be no such thing as being “fair” either…fair means both sides win. Fuck that shit, I want to WIN…winning means buying a house that my family is completely happy with and at an AFFORDABLE price (3x gross income). Payback, Payback, Payback!!!
“I’m glad the children were here for this. Not only was this original frontier ……” Samual Johnson was right.
SD - Maybe you should post more often. Sounds like you’ve been living with a lot of pent-up energy. Either that or you should join a boxing gym.
Yeah, I’m sure my momma once said to me, “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all”…
In this case, sorry momma
Nice Rant-DeLurk!
“Anthony Germono is a real estate investor finding discounts among homes in foreclosure. ‘We are looking to get something on 80 cents on the dollar or less,’ Geronimo said.”
Real estate invester’s panic warning: GERONIMO-O-O-O!!!
I’m really trying to control myself and not write a thesis on that moron and appleton-young. Trying really really hard.
No No, let it all out. High Blood pressure is bad for you…..
Indeed! Purge my friend, and don’t be afraid to let the expletives fly.
Yes purge. We’re here for you.
Not to mention, who the #$*! thinks that this will end at 20% off? Investor? Nyet. More like a high velocity sheep fleecing. He’ll turn around and already be underwater.
Got popcorn?
Neil
Trump Jr. is hosting a free (but just for me!!!) conference on just this subject in a few days.
How desperate is the Donald these days?
Well, The Donald thinks I’m pretty special too. BTW, how does a free seminar get sold out?
Please let it out.
In my book, Mr. IS still has the single best post on the Ben’s HBB about the party with RE true believers and the day the MR IS fully comprehended the idiocy of the housing bubble.
IIRC, he got into some hot water with friends for that post.
Still the funniest post every on the HBB blog.
“‘People have bought houses they can’t afford, period,’ said economist Christopher Thornberg. ‘So unless the government is going to give them $100,000 to $200,000 each, what option do they really have?’”
FEMA trailers, anyone?
I’ve been inside those FEMA trailers. Believe me, they’re not luxurious.
For example, you know that nice full-sized tub that you have in your bathroom? The one that you can stretch out in for a nice, long bath? Nothing like that is possible in a FEMA trailer, unless you’re a child.
And do you like to spin around with your arms fully outstretched? It’s kind of fun to do in the middle of the living room, isn’t it? Can’t do that in a FEMA trailer either.
I could go on, but I think you can get the picture.
I knew the day I helped my richest relative take the wheels off his new house I was a redneck
It sure beats a cardboard box. It’s not like a house just appears out of the ground for every newlywed family. I know a lot of people who belong in a trailer, not as punishment, but as a gift, it’s actually more than they deserve based on their life’s work.
It’s better to start out low and work your way up.
Personally, I could do quite well living in a travel trailer. While it certainly wouldn’t be my first choice, if it were on a nice piece of land, I’d be fine. In a trailer park, no way in hell.
So they should rewrite No Exit to take place in a trailer park? Boy, that WOULD be Hell.
For example, you know that nice full-sized tub that you have in your bathroom? The one that you can stretch out in for a nice, long bath? Nothing like that is possible in a FEMA trailer, unless you’re a child.
I don’t have one of those - just a shower stall - and I’m not even a welfare parasite. Why should they get a full-sized bathtub?
The Fed already did give them 100-200k in tax free gains and look what they did with it.
Wow. That is so true Geoff. Look what they did with it. Freaking fools. No second chances on that.
“De Vries advises buyers to be sympathetic, because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.”
While we agree that there were many obnoxious sellers during the bubble’s inflation, we should keep in mind that not all sellers now were also sellers before. In fact, some of the sellers today are facing the double whammy of being on the wrong end of the obnoxious sellers previously and now being on the wrong end of the obnoxious buyers.
Of course, the sellers who are in trouble were either sellers before (getting top $$$ to trade up) or were so greedy about the “sure fire” investment that they overpaid. Either way, they don’t deserve sympathy.
“De Vries advises buyers to be sympathetic, because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.”
Better a low offer than no offer.
because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers
Oh yes they do.
Absolutely. Take the Hummer away, the 60″ flat TVs, cancel the Fiji vacation and make them go stand in the corner until dinner is ready.
And no…you can’t play video games or talk to your friends on the phone. As a matter of fact, give me that cell phone, and then back in the corner you go.
BayQT~
QT: Waiting patiently for Dublin to take the enormous hit it needs. There are dozens and dozens of resale condos out in east Dublin and they have hundreds still under construction. Starting to see the first listed “short sales.” So much 100% financing here it makes me ill. Three years ago I was naive and was impressed that so many were doing so well that they could buy. They all thought they were so smart buying a $500K condo in their 20s. Then I learned how they did it and saw what it has wrought on the economy of the near future. Eff them. Push them into the corner and bang their heads against the wall several times just for good measure.
CA Guy, I’m with you. Today I was driving around with a friend in South Shore Tampa Bay area, on what used to be a back road, and came upon a Centex development with the land being cleared and the infrastructure going in. Right across the street from a stalled, dead in the water KB Home/Toll Brothers joint ventured development!!!! My friend shook his head and said “Can’t they look across the street and see what’s NOT going on?
Even funnier, the site was getting mobbed by cars full of “guest workers” pulling over, desperate for work.
BUT WAIT, there’s more! I picked up one of the little weekly area community news rags and the lead story is “Centex Homes, others plan huge Progess Village project”, ANOTHER joint venture development on almost 600 acres of land south of Tampa.
All I could think of was Ben’s recent comment (regarding a Centex California development) that “Centex has apparently lost their mind”. Either that, Centex is sane and I have completely lost mine.
You know. Just as long as Centex can underbid the prices of their new houses then what GF’s are trying to re-sale what the GF’s bought in 2005, Centex will come out okay.
From what I have seen, Centex can afford to undercut, it’s not like they are making their homes with high end fixtures, carpet, etc. They were just making a killing on profit.
The big question is “What did they pay for the land?”
“A new survey shows Bay Area home listings jumped at one of the nation’s highest rates. Investors are placing properties on the market, trying to sell them before the busy summer selling season.”
At the risk of sounding smug, a number of us who have posted here for some time did not believe reports last year that ‘all the investors had left the market’ for one single instant.
“trying to sell them before the busy summer selling season.”
Ummm… Isn’t the busy season when you normally want to sell?
GetStucco,
We’re not smug. That smile is shadenfreude. You are right, investors are in the market. Deep in the market.
Not to mention, the retirees who *must* sell to finance their retirement haven’t yet woken up to the fact that their nest egg is being discounted by the day . Oh… when that awareness strikes… Get out of the way. That is when the crowd panics and heads for the exits. When? Good question. It might not be until 2008. But when it happens (and it will)… all hell will break lose.
There are 5X as many investors out there than anyone thinks there are. Most don’t even realize they are investors… yet. But they will. Oh… they will.
I have no pity for greed.
Got popcorn? Lots and lots of popcorn?
Neil
The boomers selling has allways been a gorrila in the living room, not to mention the bubble of the last 6 years.
Now that a lot of boomers own several properites the reversion will be well below the mean! As this RE bubble implodes under it’s own weight the dying (literally and financially) boomers will add a dimension to this plunge that I don’t feel we have enough appreciation for.
Even if loose lending didn’t cause the bubble the boomers selling out IMO would have caused quite a problem all on their own.
After a day of stories like todays, I’ve got my smug on, big time.
Got smug?
“De Vries advises buyers to be sympathetic, because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.”
——————————–
I do not think 2000 prices were obscenely low
Obscenely low offers? No way. I am not going to drop my pants when I make the offer.
75% off listing is obsene, 50% is reasonable and sympathetic….LOL
“‘If you can help those folks sell their property before it goes into default, it will actually help their credit,’ de Vries said. De Vries advises buyers to be sympathetic, because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.”
All, Kick them, kick them, kick them till I get tired.
Sounds like a damn good workout routine to me. Screw TaeBo, I opt for FB kicking!
There are too many FBs so you gotta pace yourself to be sure that equal opportunity whuppin’s are dealt.
Guess I better sign up for Kick-A-FB lessons!!!
“Scott Richard Wallace, a San Diego carpenter, doesn’t share that view. ‘Housing is always a good investment,’ he said in an interview after the poll. ‘I don’t see it ever losing.’”
So did the LA Times lose faith in their so-called economists they’ve been quoting for the last several years and resort to interviewing carpenters for market perspective?
I guess when the NAR is predicting price declines, you have to let the carpenters take care of the economic forecasts.
Yeah, let ‘em take a Sawzall to it. That’ll cut it down to size in a hurry.
That’s what I was thinking. What the heck is one to do when even DL is calling for declines. Where can you turn to in such desperate times for a rah-rah prediction? Carpenters - yeah, that’s the ticket!
Carpenters? I thought Karen died.
Just think. Mama Cass had given Karen her sandwich, they might both be here today!
Must prevent idiotic sugarcoated song from playing in my head all day
No, it didn’t work. Thanks, mr Postman hey hey hey.
PS, confession: I once waved a strong magnet across a co-workers Carpenter cassette while she was out to lunch. Ah, that felt good.
I have to confess that, as a 42 year old guy, I remember we used to do a lot of traveling between Akron and central Pennsylvania during the seventies to visit relatives. There was ALWAYS a Carpenters tune in there somewhere during those four hours on the road. I can still hear it in my head today, thirty or more years later.
I swear, I can still see Interstate 80 in my head today. I once traveled it half asleep during my college days to see a girlfriend. The reason I didn’t get killed that night is because I knew it so well, almost too well.
‘I don’t see it ever losing.’”
They have blind carpenters now ?
Well you know…rainy days and mondays always get him down, but NOT housing!
He was talking about the house of the Lord.
How can a carpenter in SD, where price declines are clearly evident, not be able to see these price declines? I guess Upton Sinclair was right.
Where did the LA Times find a carpenter that speaks english? Or is that why they interviewed a San Diego carpenter?
“These days there is a record amount of inventory to chose from. And, there’s an increase in properties listed by investors and families who are on the verge of losing their homes because of higher interest rates on adjustable mortgages. Realtor Andrew de Vries says these sellers are motivated.”
“‘If you can help those folks sell their property before it goes into default, it will actually help their credit,’ de Vries said. De Vries advises buyers to be sympathetic, because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.”
Ok people! Please be nice to the sellers that are desperate, can we all just get along? Remember some of these sellers have overpaid for a POS and have had to feed the squirrels too. Along the way they got taken by the mortgage broker, lender, and their real estate agent. Plus they thought the broker and agent were their friends (some were even family members) and trying to help them. Give them sellers a break. Thanks for reading.
Being sympathetic to a seller’s plight does not mean that I have to continue to feed the real estate beast. I have no intention of paying an outrageous price for a house because I feel bad for the seller.
Remember some of these sellers have overpaid for a POS and have had to feed the squirrels too.
It will be nice to be served the squirel with fava beans and a nice chianti.
As others have noted, the price is just business. Accept or reject my offer. I won’t care. But forget asking me to hand over a kid’s college tuition (4 years) extra for a home; I, like most on this blog, actually got something out of my education.
Pity? What’s pity have to do with business?
Got popcorn?
Neil
“As others have noted, the price is just business. Accept or reject my offer. I won’t care.”
Well said. I’m not interested in making sellers suffer unnecessarily, but I will not accept responsibility for the consequences of bad financial decisions. Nor will I prop up prices so the banks get off easy and the agents can continue making huge commissions. I’m looking out for my best interests and that includes having enough money to send my kids to college and, eventually, to retire comfortably. So, accept my offer or not. There will be more houses for me to choose from tomorrow.
“There will be more houses for me to choose from tomorrow. ”
Exactly, More people should have this mindset especially here in SOCAL. If a guy is in a situation where he has a shortsale you’d be an idiot to offer within 5 to 10% of list. Especially if you did you’re due dilligence and found out the mortgage was being held by a subprime lender that was in papers. 50% of the latest comp at most. If they don’t want to deal move on.
“There will be more houses for me to choose from tomorrow. ”
Yep… its going to be a long time until sales catch up with inventory. I won’t let us bid on any home until we find five that we are happy with. If one is rejected… find a new 5th home and bid again.
I plan to leave a crush fund in case the inspection missed something, etc.
And yes… one day we will hit a new bottom and prices will go back up. Yawn. Since its no where near 2011 yet, I’m not willing to entertain those discussions. I’m talking buying strategies for late 2008/2009.
And yes, I’ve seen the credit suisse report… I realize there is FIVE MORE YEARS of this.
Got popcorn?
Neil
Neil,
You have my sympathy!
How are you holding up with the increase in corn prices?
I bet that stupid Ethanol crap really pisses you off. That has to be the worst (other than the military industrial comples) idea ever, send to price of food up 4X so you can make at most 2% of the gas we need!!!!
Hope you don’t have to swap from popcorn to ricecaks. Ricecakes really suck!!!
Gl Neil.
Scroll down this list of recipes to 19th Century North Carolina Style Brunswick Stew.
Yes, and now these poor sellers think it would be fair for YOU, yes YOU to eat the $hit for them, because obviously THEY can’t be expected to eat it themselves.
Meanwhile, back in NYC, it’s different here:
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN1121019720070411?pageNumber=1
From the figures given, sounds like one can buy a home in a NYC slum for say $500K or $600K. Is this true? Does anyone here advise it? You know I am not a troll, but NYC will (eventually) recover better than other places. i think.
“Bedford Stuyvesant, Bushwick and East New York/Starrett City in Brooklyn and Belmont/East Tremont in the Bronx”
Az,
the neighborhoods mentioned here are seriously lousy. There may be a few pioneers who have bought here, but there is no core of gentrification. Also no supermarkets, coffee shops, etc., just bodegas and liquor stores and plenty of crime. Last time, in 91-92, prime real estate on the Upper West Side tanked–studios and one-beds especially went begging. If you check the NYTimes archives, there are plenty of articles on owners who couldn’t find tenants to cover their costs. I wouldn’t sink a dime in the ‘hoods–I’d wait to see what kind of a haircut prime areas take.
Here’s an idea for housing the soon to be homeless:
Mini-storage conversion units. Turn mini-storages into apartment rentals. With Porta potties at the end of the driveway.
Or not, and just let ‘em sit in their own sh*t.
Actually, not such a crazy idea.
Some of the greener architects are proposing using old shipping containers, modified to make housing.
Here’s a link:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/01/shipping_contai.php
Advantages are that most of them already have AC and hardwood floors - and they’re piling up at many ports around the country.They’re already ‘prefabricated’, and with a bit of imagination several can be modifed to make a nice house.
If i was looking to build, rather than buy, its an avenue I’d explore.
Really people. Isn’t it obvious what will happen to the people who are losing “their” homes?
As long as they are employed, they will just end up renting the same houses they used to “own” (not the exact same ones, of course, but the same group of people in the same group of houses). Those houses aren’t going to disappear. Mr. Market will create his own solution.
And prices will come down to where their landlords can afford to pay mortgages with the rents the FBs can afford to pay. But the FBs will have a foreclosure and or bankrupcy on their Credit Reports and will have no access to credit. There will be alot of REAL RE investors created at the bottom of the market. We’re simply nowhere close yet.
I wonder how many found their exotic loan didnt amount to much over the past 2-3 years in regards to Tax benefits.
Now their short sellers.
“Americans are worried about the economy and believe that a recession is looming, but their faith in real estate remains fierce, according to a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll.”
“Scott Richard Wallace, a San Diego carpenter, doesn’t share that view. ‘Housing is always a good investment,’ he said in an interview after the poll. ‘I don’t see it ever losing.’”
Some folks ought to read up on economic history before openly sharing their ignorance. I know it is different this time, but seven out of seven times since 1955 when U.S. residential real estate dropped off by over 25%, the rest of the economy went into a concurrent recession. The figures that keep surfacing in the press suggest residential construction might be off by 40% or so this time.
Fear of job loss does not typically stimulate housing demand. The rationale for buying into economic weakness becomes particularly dicey when even the NAR is forecasting national-level price declines through 2008.
Ok, I am just sick of the whining, In what other industry are we supposed to be “sympathetic” to sellers???? are we expected to be nice to car dealers? understand a company has had a bad quarter and give them a “fair” price for thier stock? Pay the plumber/electrician/dogsitter/daycare worker extra because they made a poor/uninformed choice???? NO, it is a business transaction, period. The house/shoes/stock do not have “feelings”. The market will determine price, and does not take into account your feelings.
Actually, it’s not about beeing sympathetic to sellers. What they really ask is to pay more to the lenders. Lender created bad loans. Any bad load is created counting on a bailout deal. It’s all part of the compain to bail out the loan originators speculating on sympathy to small players in this scheme. The answer to “who should pay for this?” is simple: whoever owns the bad loan.
good point, they do have a vested intereest in the value of thier “non performing assets”
Right on, Michael. Six or seven years ago I made one loan that I knew was in the “give trailer trash a chance” category. Gave ‘em a chance and they blew it. I lost just a few thousand, big deal. However, I did refrain from asking anyone else to eat my loss. Just sold the lot and trailer as fast as I could for as close as I could get to what I had in it. Luckily, no foreclosure cost. Caught the culprits at the trailer one day and offered them $200.00 in green folding money, if they would sign a quitclaim deed. They knew they were finished (power off, HOA dues unpaid, etc etc), so they were glad to have gas money to get to the son-in-law in Vegas. That was the last bad loan I made (I hope).
What’s your LTV limit these days?… less than 70%?
ROTFL
ex-nnvmtgbrkr… that was funny! Its not there yet. But will be. Oh, except for FHA it will be. (Maybe not for long… but boy will that be a wake up call to the market.)
Got popcorn?
Neil
Oops, I missed that you were replying to Az_lender.
My post was to discuss the overall market.
Neil
Right, 70% LTV was the next-to-last loan I made. The last one (last week) was more like 50%. Would you people please help me to quit lending? I don’t mind if I go on smoking, but lending could kill me quickly.
It took the removal of 12 polyps and over six inches of my colon to give me the impetus (3 days of hellish confinement in the hospital) to quit smoking. Life is better. Food is better. I can lowball better!
I think I’ll buy a lot and put up dormitory housing. Should be a big demand for it in 2008.
in all seriousness, there are a lot of older motels/hotels here, and several of us have discussed that if you could find a way to provide decent low cost housing (while managing the risk) you could make decent profit, and this led to one comment from a landlord friend of mine, evidently there are some cities/municipalities that have codes on how many people can occupy a dwelling, this makes sense on the surface but it is really that bad to have 4 people in a small clean one bedroom? just one hundred years ago you would have a whole family in a small one or two room house? (as opposed to two people in 3500 sq ft as is so common today) I am not certain that kind of progress is all that progressive.
Even if the codes allow it, you don’t want that many people in a rental. After you figure the wear and tear plus the water and sewer and trash fees and what it does to your property value, you’re not going to be making money.
Actually, low cost motels really ARE the bottom rung of the housing lader. If you see a motel with “weekly/monthly rates” on the sign, you’re seeing that small step/giant leap from homelessness. The fact that they’re motels allows them to kick out those who are too disruptive out without dealing with tennant protecting laws. I’m thinking here of the Valencia motel in Maryland, favored by the 9/11 terrorists.
“‘Mortgage credit is clearly tightening, affordability is not good and there are a record number of unoccupied homes for sale,’ said Scott Simon, a mortgage-bond fund manager for Pacific Investment Management Co. in Newport Beach. ‘We think prices should be down a few percent this year and, if we are wrong, it will be worse than that.’”
Wow! This guy is pretty confident that housing will be in the dumps. He needs a nice little chat with Leslie.
In short he is saying … Soft Landing!
But Soft Landing is not in the cards… its a crash!
No one is talking about a soft landing anymore.
I remember the end of the Eighties when Greenspan took over as Fed chairman, and they were talking about a soft landing then.
I don’t think we’ve ever actually experienced one. The only time when we might have had something close would have been at the end of the 1950s, when there was a short and shallow recession that got Kennedy elected by the narrowest of margins.
Is there anyone here in their sixties or seventies who can help us with this?
Ah! but that was when we actually were running a national surplus, the tax cut by JFK was an injection into the system.
And we had a national surplus because we had a value added economy and did not yet have the Great Society and Vietnam as a fiscal millstone around our necks.
meltdown is the word they repeatedly use
This guy (Simon) sold and is renting and said so publicly.
That is putting your money where your mouth is.
From the Contra Costa article:
“Among those with a possible case are homeowners whose primary language was not English who were required to sign all loan documents in English.”
Unbelievable. Is it possible that anybody in education will ever connect the dots with regards to teaching english to kids?
My only hope is that the courts limit the judgements to a “do over”, like the case back east, where they lose the house, but get back their money. I fear that we’re starting to go down the path of chasing away legitimate creditors, just like the Japanese did. 15 years, eh? That’s a long way down.
On the one hand I find this extremely annoying as do most people here. On the other hand I find it highly entertaining that an industry with as much money involved as lenders were too f*ckin’ stupid to not know this was an out for these people in CA.
The Property Tax Conundrum
http://www.thestreet.com/funds/realestate/10349721.html
“Even though housing prices in many parts of the country are now cooling, property tax hikes are unlikely to slow”
Ah yes, the oft forgotten property taxes that most forgot about when they purchased that overpriced POS. That is, until the supplemental tax bill came due.
The mortgage is only the beginning when thinking of the costs of owning a home. Prop taxes, fire insurance, earthquake insurance and maintenance costs need to be factored into the equation.
“‘If you can help those folks sell their property before it goes into default, it will actually help their credit,’ de Vries said. De Vries advises buyers to be sympathetic, because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.”
Sympathetic??
These dopes drove up the price of houses to stupid levels so i refuse to play stupid and buy and I should pay more and be sympathetic?
I will kick them out the door as fast as possible into the street where they belong. maybe they can rent at a homeless shelter.
Was I the only one that say problems down the road for Carmela in the 1st episode of the last season of the Sopranos?
She’s got a spec house that just isn’t selling, Tony’s got a little problem with hollow point bullets, the usual~
If the mortgage tightening and subsequent bust in the housing market drags California into a depression, what keeps us from having riots due to all these people becoming dispossessed in a very short period of time?
This happened in Palmdale during the early nineties.
Would you happen to have a news link to this events?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bust10apr10,1,7108901.story
I just spent about ten minutes looking at the photo gallery, and after seeing it I don’t think there’s anything that can keep us out of a depression.
I’m glad we decided to rent after selling our house in Texas.
Boy, am I glad.
Riot they will, and I’ll be long gone.
Yes, but I’ll be ready if they come this way.
(sound of racking the slide on a .45 ACP)
Nice choice of sidearm.
I do believe LA will have another race riot. When? I don’t know. Not 2007… later. But it will get bad enough that the working class will become very frustrated…
The only problem is single stack mags. Prefer the .40 S&W.
So true. The S&W is sweet. My primary is a Beretta 92F; Mel did one hell of a sales job on me in Lethal Weapon.
Just make sure you are professional enough to handle your piece.
I do have sympathy for the FB because they were tricked believing they would be left out or worst still be bums living on the street during their golden years.
I know I had a few doubts if correction would ever occur or is this a new plateau?
Back to reality I am sorry for the FB and good luck with finding a GF.
LA is the LEAST overvalued market?? Compared to WHAT??
Look what a cool .5M will buy you in Compton. Oooh, former group home…what a plus!! http://guests.themls.com/profile_page.cfm?mls=06-148563
Everything in SOCAL is overvalued at least by 7x when compared to other states. I’d be hard pressed to pay 60k for that crap. People are perpetually “stuck on stupid” as the general says here. There are only a few properties in this state truly worth 500k or more, the Hearst Mansion, the Streisand Estate and the Hefner Mansion and places with the same land mass, views and square footage. Everything else should max at 500k. I’m getting sick of seeing this kind of stupidity.
People should start dividing the asking price by 7 on these short sales and make their offers. Unbelievable
“Hearst Mansion, the Streisand Estate and the Hefner Mansion”
Don’t forget Neverland Ranch…
No, I didn’t forget that. For one it’s in the middle of nowhere and too it’s a severe fixer. You’d have to get rid of all the fairyland crap and child molester paraphanelia. That alone kicks it back to the 500k range
Your joking, 7 times? I sold a condo last year in Coachella Valley for $150k. I recently looked up prices and in that same complex and they are selling for $135k. Using your logic those condos should sell for $19k. This is a 600 square foot condo, and at that price your looking at $31 a square foot.
While price will continue to decline, it won’t be 7 times. I have already seen declines of 10-20% from the peak, and I suspect we will see another 20-40%. Even with a 50% decline that will only place it back to 2003. A 60% decline will place it back to 2000. If we use your numbers (7 times) we are a few thousand below the original sales price in 1982.
The GF’s are back in full force in LA. In my area, almost everything over $750K is getting multiple offers and overbid. 30% of those polled believe prices in their areas are going to be higher in 6 months.
Are they reading different papers than I do?? I understand the NAR has to wish and hope, but people have to be downright stupid to believe that prices will continue to rise in LA while the rest of the country crumbles.
Not surprisingly, only 28% of those polled blamed the borrowers for the sub prime meltdown…
What’s your area, and where are you getting your info?
West LA. The prime areas are still selling.
I’m not saying it’s right…it’s just what I’m seeing in the $750K-$1.25M range.
Just curious… Given that price range, probably knife catchers jumping in on the “deals”. Or we’ve hit the bottom and are resuming the standard yearly 20% appreciation…
“Multiple” offers as per your realtor. Over asking price as per cash back at signing.
I don’t have a realtor. Not even thinking of getting one until this area sees a min. 30% haircut.
This information is coming from two seperate coworkers that keep losing out on homes in multiple bid situations. One went 20% over asking. Call it what you want, this area has yet to get the memo.
Dude, I wouldn’t spend 150k for 2500 sqft and a half acre in Coachella Valley. Nevermind a 600 sqft condo. Are you kidding me? That’s what i mean about the stupidity of folks here in California. You’re right 19k may be a bit extreme. how about 25k…
You are on a roll today!
Go, mrincomestream, go!!!
Bear of all Bears. I would only be so lucky if I could find a 2200 sq ft home on 1/2 acre for $150k. It ain’t never gonna happen.
A 600 sq ft condo in CV will never go down to $25k. You cannot even build for twice that cost. In the worst case scenario, it may hit $60k. More than likely it goes down to $80-90k. Still a long way from 7 times.
Excuse me you did say Coachella Valley didn’t you? Here’s an example of the last Downturn in Riverside County which that is. Moreno Valley 35k a pop for sfr’s. Condo’s in Riverside far larger than 600 sqft were 50 to 75k. If Moreno Valley and areas like Riverside, Perris take that kind of dump what do you think is going to happen to the idiotic desert wonderlands of Indio and Palm Springs?. During the last downturn condo’s in SFV were selling for 25k a pop after the earthquake never say never my friend.
I recently talked with a gentleman who worked for HUD in the early 1990’s. He said you could buy hundreds of homes in the I/E for $25,000 all day long. Little starter homes, 1200-1400 SF 3Bd/2Ba. Builders turned them out like cracker boxes and got ahead of themselves. They went begging for years because there was no one to occupy them. Built to HUD specs for low down FHA programs. So don’t be so quick to say where the bottom is in this latest round of madness. Unless you predicted the $150,000 house in 2000 going for $600,000 in 2005, you should not be telling anyone how much that house will be in 2010.
Imagine or a minute the housing market takes So Cal into a recession. Jobs go away. Illegals head home under a backlash of citizens starving for any job, including ones immigrants do now. So 5,000,000 people head back to Mexico? What will that do to business? And you will see a lot of spare bedrooms for rent and a lot of houses vacant and boarded up by the banks.
I may not happen, but don’t say it can not happen.
Bear of all Bears.
Excuse me?? He’s a teddy bear in this neck of the woods.
When I was at University, I did a short stint at Hopkins Marine in Pacific Grove. One of the notices was an old Hearst newspaper from the 1930s offering a “free 1 acre parcel with ocean view with a 1 year subscription.” Hearst knew where the money was located.
Yes, but the 1-acre parcels were located on steep hillsides that couldn’t be built, planted, or usually even accessed.
Dear mrincomestream, thanks for your comments. When people talk about Southern California or California and prices like $500000.00 and more it is hard to comprehend. Yes if it was in England or Austria, Switzerland or Norway, France or Italy, Spain or even Portugal where you are part of civilization, historical monuments, real democracy those prices could be realistic, but here in U.S. where most important historical and architectural monument is MacDonald’s arches…. You know, in my old country names of Hollywood, Los Angeles were similar to Russian Tsar’s Winter Palaces or Versailles in Paris. When I arrived to Hollywood 20 years ago I could not believe where I was. I never had been in shittiest place in my life. Even now when every morning I take freeway towards downtown and look around I feel myself same way. This country is very rich but it needs to have at least 500 years to be like even Easter Europe and then prices will worth $500000.00 …
Save your Euro-love for people that buy into that crap. I like Europe, but it’s greying, decrepit, and largely obsolete. If warming ourselves beside car-fires is how we will spend our nights, then I hope we never become as cultured as Paris. I’ll take hot dogs and baseball and even the bums talking to themselves on the Santa Monica pier.
Not to mention you can rent almost anywhere in L.A. County for less than 1/2 of PITI. Oh, whoops –I forgot to use CAR’s new “adjusted” formula for affordability (assumes financing with a stated-income 1% teaser 100-year option-ARM). Yeah, it’s “affordable” here alright –my bad.
“Compared to WHAT??”
San Francisco Bay Area… seems we had a disconnect where town like Palo Altos and other no frills hot spots have surpassed Bel Aire, Beverly Hills, Malibu and more than a few.
If you stepped back and actually compared ,SoCal would do better as it has over many decades in California. Its puzzling since places like Palo Altos is nothing compared to Bel Aire or Beverly Hills. PA or Mountain View are actually more like Orange County.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070411/housing_woes.html?.v=4
“WASHINGTON (AP) — Amid new signs that the housing slump is worsening, key Senate Democrats said Wednesday that hundreds of millions of dollars of new federal aid may be needed to assist homeowners at risk of foreclosure.”
I wonder if they’ll be too late.
Where do they think they are going to get hundreds of millions of dollars? We’re broke!
Let’s say “only” 1 million houses are “at risk of foreclosure”, and they provide “hundreds of millions” of dollars of new federal aid. That would be… hundreds of dollars apiece!
Cabfare to an apartment complex?
“As 1.1 million homeowners face foreclosure and financial ruin after the subprime mortgage market meltdown, a question remains: ‘Who is going to solve this mess?’
This needed not to have happened. Repeat after me, all in univoice: Thanks FED! Did not the FED see this as the inevitable result of their screwed monetary policies?
A better point is that CONgress gave the FED the ability to do this in the first place. Read the constitution. This isn’t supposed to happen.
Agreed.
a question remains: ‘Who is going to solve this mess?’
Mr. Market. Step aside and let him do his work.
“The LA Times. “Americans are worried about the economy and believe that a recession is looming, but their faith in real estate remains fierce, according to a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll.”
——————————————————————————–
Somehow I’m seeing a correlation between this sort of mindless belief in the irrational, much like we saw in the diehard followers of Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggert after the revelations of their clearly less than holy walks. It wasn’t a garden variety of forgiveness which motivated the continued following, but rather the complete suppression of logic and a “believe at all cost” mentality. Many FBs are no different.
If you had any brains at all (or had the advantage of growing up in an area that’s chronically depressed, like NE Ohio), you knew what was coming. You HAD to know.
I had only lived in Los Angeles for six months and knew something was wrong. I could smell it. It felt wrong. No one who works for a living has that much money to just throw around.
The impact of this is bleeding over into other markets, such as autos and aviation. I’m going to be finishing my pilot’s license later this year and was looking at the market for a nice, well used, not fancy Cessna 172 that I could use to build time. You guys wouldn’t believe what’s out there for thirty grand or even less. Yes, it’ll be an older plane but apparently a lot of baby boomers used HELOCs to buy planes and now have to unload them…and they’ve flooded the market. That plus four dollars/gallon for aviation fuel and a lot of people are hurting.
Don’t ever own an airplane. I’ve been flying for over 16 years, most of them commercially, and the running joke amongst my group of (pilot) friends is what is called “The 3 F Rule”
If it flies, floats or fornicates, RENT IT !
A buddy of mine gave me that advice when I was thinking about buying a plane. I asked him if that applied to his wife, too.
My old instructor told me that the rule of thumb is that the equation shifts at around 100 hours of flight time a year, at least for a single engine.
If you can get a plane cheap enough because someone is desperate, maybe even the secured lender is selling it, it could make sense. Especially if it is newer and nice. You can have a flight school rent it out for you.
Planes and boats should be really cheap because they are complete toys and thus are the first things to get sold in a pinch. People need theirs cars and can’t sell their 401ks and IRAs without penalties.
The used airplane market is getting very very good. My brother bought a Baron last year for a price that was approximately 35% off peak. He would have waited but he needed the plane for his dental practices. I’ve noticed that the singles have held up better but that is probably due to fuel prices making a single a heck of a lot more attractive. With fuel prices skyrocketing and housing collapsing, you’ll know when to pull the trigger and purchase. However, I’d suggest you think about a Bonanza or an Arrow IV. All planes are about to get very cheap.
What else is about to go on sale? I might just want to spend money…
used cars
A Bonanza? With only forty hours?
Do ya wanna kill me?
(grin)
I’m sorry but I have to ask. Why do you need a plane for a dental practice? I’m imagining all kinds of things which don’t make sense.
it must have something to do with those crazy “pulling a plane with a string tied to your teeth” world records
Thank you. I was imagining the dentist flying to make house calls with his portable drill. Your idea makes more sense!
Hmmm… a Cardinal RG would be nice! Wonder how low a pressurized Centurion might go?
TJ,
Now we have something else to agree on. I do like the Centurion too… Although Lancair has some planes that coworkers have turned into sweet machines.
Man… so many nice aircraft on the market. I’m might have some time to get my license and my company will subsidize the lessons. Hmmm…. I tell you though, six cylinders will be in demand (four coworkers are looking at upgrading the engines in their planes).
Got aviation?
Neil
As long as we’re talking toys, I’ll take a Schempp-Hirth Duo Discus.
But those who have lived in LA LA land for years couldn’t smell it anymore. To them it seemed NORMAL for everyone to be living off of their equity because everyone was doing it. They can no longer smell that sickly sweet smell of gangrene so the amputations are going to come as a complete surprise.
OT I know but one can’t help but react to all this crap.
“Wall Street Pulls Back After Fed Raises Specter of Rate Hike and Gasoline Prices Rise.”
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070411/wall_street.html?.v=46
Q…….Does the whole American financial system rise and fall on the wording of a FED statement?
In my view this is so childish.
Q…..Would a .25% rate rise sink the American financial system?
If so, then maybe we are about to see the biggest foreclosure ever know……..The US of A.
Sorry, but I just couldn’t help myself.
I’m not formally educated in finance, but it seems to me that not having a manufacturing base and the degree to which so many corporate functions have been outsourced to other nations is having a collective negative impact on the stability of our markets.
Our economy has become like a poker game, where if one or several of the big boys take their money off the table…a large number of people are significantly disaffected.
If the US goes into foreclosure, the world will shut down. Who will buy all those chinese made products? who will employ latin america? who will feed the world? Ugly times are on the horizon.
IMF: The World Will Decouple if U.S. Has a Soft Landing; It Will Not Decouple if There is a U.S. Hard Landing…….
This is worth a read.
http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/
luvs_footie, Thanks. I didn’t even know that Nouriel Roubini had a blog. I’ve seen him on various TV shows and know what an articulate housing bear he is, but it’s nice to know he blogs.
Yahoo finance always has the most useless headlines. How could they possibly know what causes certain stocks to rally or sell off? They announce that one event has a direct correlation to another when, in fact, it may just be manipulation.
“TV and magazines make the good life look wonderful,” said Poulnot, 49. “If you didn’t get raised properly, it’s easy to fall prey to wanting more than you can afford.”
Not him, though.
“I drive a 5-year-old Chevy Tahoe, my wife drives a 6-year-old Ford Expedition…”
Leave some gas for the rest of us you pig.
My ride-to-work bike is 14 years old. My car (4 banger) is 13. I consider myself well off.
Leave some gas for the rest of us you pig.
Exactly. What’s with the two SUV’s?!?
That will be fun once we hit summer. Let’s just say that to me its not a question of if we hit $4 gas… but when.
Got popcorn?
Neil
I use the same toilet paper several times before I flush it. I use broken glass to shave rather than give Gillette $10. I consider myself cheap, stupid, scarred, and smelly. Oh, I also have no friends.
Two of my bicycles are old enough to drink. Although I haven’t seen either one celebrating their 21st birthdays, I’d best keep an eye on them…
Oh, I thought you meant that you could drink the bikes because they had fermented.
“Housing experts were a little puzzled by the enthusiastic attitude of some respondents.”
Stupid people say stupid things. The world is full of stupid people. Nuff said…
One for the money, two for the road, three to get ready and four to RESET!
On your mark, get set, RESET!
FED! Did not the FED see this as the inevitable result?
YES, of course they did! But elected to keep their fingers crossed!
But in the end they don’t care, because they have the collateral!
& you have their fiat paper!
Cha-CHING!
The FBer’s and HomeDebtor’s will find my SYMPATHY for them UNDER the Freeway Bridge. Enjoy it TROLLS
i spent the afternoon photographing the lovely hills of carlsbad california today. i mostly surveyed cleared land getting ready to build more homes. the fancy names to all the communities are: quintara, sea port villas, the highlands, la costa greens, the estates, aviera, all these damn places start at 800k or more! these places i would love to live in, huge tuscan style homes. i’ll send some photos to ben for fun. i also noticed the all the big builders had their own section of each community. pulte, hov,lennar etc. they were all there.
wasn’t there just someone here saying there’s no more land in north county?? actually I was driving around palamor airport and la costa last week, believe me folks when I say this, there is plenty of land left for everyone, even within 5 miles of the coast. In fact, I saw almost nothing BUT empty land up there, I was shocked.
The Fed’s role in the Housing Crash of ‘07
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article16104.htm
From the article……………..
“The fallout from the housing explosion will be much more destructive than what most people imagine. In fact, Peter Schiff, president of Euro Pacific Capital Inc. believes that the NY Times’ estimates are too optimistic. Schiff anticipates that failures in the sub-prime loan market will put greater downward pressure on housing by increasing inventory and lowering prices.
Schiff says:
“The secondary effects of the “1 out of 5” sub-prime default rate will be a chain reaction of rising interest rates and falling home prices engendering still more defaults, with the added foreclosures causing the cycle to repeat. In my opinion, when the cycle is fully played out we are more likely to see an 80% default rate rather than 20%”.
80%!?!
40 million Americans headed towards foreclosure? Better pick out a comfy spot in the local park to set up the lean-to.
Schiff’s calculations may be overly pessimistic, but his reasoning is sound. Once mortgage-holders realize that their homes are worth tens of thousands less than the amount of their loan they are likely to “mail in their house keys rather than make the additional mortgage payments.”
As Schiff says, “Why would anyone stretch to spend 40% of his monthly income to service a $700,000 mortgage on a condo valued at $500,000, especially when there are plenty of comparable rentals that are far more affordable?”
Why indeed? There’s simply no incentive to hang on to a home or condo that’s losing value every day.”
A SFR costing $700K in the SF Bay Area was only $210K 9 years ago. So I would say its only worth some $312K.
Schiff is not exactly what you would call “moderate” in his opinions.
Neither is this blog and we’ve been right for the past, what, 12, 16, 18, 24 months? The boom wasn’t moderate. The bust won’t be moderate, either.
Great read. I hope Alan Fullspan lives long enough for people to drag him in chains to court.
I meant Alan Foolspan… sorry.
That is the difference when a credit deflation or credit implosion happens and the last time there was a credit deflation was in the 1930’s. From what “They” have done this time to bring on a succession of asset bubbles (globally), i think that what we are seeing is several times larger than the 1929 style “correction” so ultimately, this (so called) “correction” ought to be way uglier than the 1930’s as it plays out. When you add the Peak Oil type scenario along with global warming and global environmental degradation then perhaps we have lived in the Best of Times and our children and grandchildren will pay the bounty for the greed and ignorance that has been displayed in this Mania.
“If your mortgage wasn’t affordable the month before bankruptcy, it probably won’t be affordable the month after.”
Lots of people who were herded into overpaying during the bubble could afford what the house is actually worth. The only “bailout” I will accept is an exception to the bankruptcy code that allows a “do-over” for legitimate owner-occupants, allowing them to re-buy houses at slighlty more than they are worth, with the lender taking the haircut.
How does a lender take a haircut? Aren’t they like a gas station, and after the fuel is sold they’re done. If 50k motorists drove back into the service station all at once demanding a refund of 20 cents a gallon, how does the owner pay? We are seeing now the lenders can’t afford 50 motorists. If you mean the investment levels in this mess (and my retirement …..thanks CalPERS) then I agree. But I also think that would be a temporary fix…..sort of a “soft landing” foreclosure process.
I agree with Lefantome. These lenders disappear (New Century) when asked to give money back. To do something like WT is hinting at would mean the government picks up the bill, once again. That means you and I pay. I’m doing my taxes and I’m already pi$$ed. No mas!
I’m paying an additional 10k this year again (above my “old” withholding)…… going from an owner to renting is really a financial beaaaaaatch, but I love this kind of pain!
As usual I am chafing at calling the loan-originators “lenders”
The “bailout” that I would consider would be to get rid of the new “median income” bankrupy rules and allow these middle class FBs to get rid of the difficiency judgements from their foreclosures when the declare bankrupcy. Anyone dumb enough to make a 100% stated income negative ammortization loan or buy securities underwritten by such poo DESERVES to be smacked on the peepee by the bankrupcy judge.
“One option is filing for bankruptcy, which can give the homeowner some time to deal with an imminent foreclosure, she said, but that is not a solution. And bankruptcy Chapter 13 does not allow for the modification of real estate debt, Twomey said.”
Sure it does. You just don’t keep the house (or the mortgage). Dissolved is modified, isn’t it?
“Americans are worried about the economy and believe that a recession is looming, but their faith in real estate remains fierce, ”
———————————————–
The unsophisticated masses have more faith in that which can be physically touched, like houses or precious metals, than in more abstract concepts like stocks and bonds. That fierce faith is hard to shake once it is firmly entrenched.
When the conventional wisdom changes to RE is the worst investment, that one will persist too.
Isn’t taking 6% off the sale price kicking sellers while their down?
you mean 60%….right.
I was referring to Realtor(tm) commissions.
I have no problem kicking them while their down and I have tried actually tried lowballing in the past few months…the problem I keep running into is that they CAN’T reduce the price down to my offer because “they bought in 2005″ and any lower would mean a financial loss, considering closing costs. So, they either pull the thing off the market permanently or re-list at the same price.
they’re
WTF is up wit the spellin nazis tonight!!!!
Thank you,lainvestorgirl.
I’ve been gnawing my knuckles off trying not to make mention….
Ziprealty.com continuing the ever upward climb..
http://tinyurl.com/2jcads
“ZipRealty has 1,094,691 active homes Nationwide”
Somebody who posted here last year was tracking when the inventory would cross the 1m mark. The mark was surpassed without fanfare. Anyway, we have subsequently learned ziprealty.com is far from complete coverage, as inventory figures like 4m are routinely thrown around the MSM on their more honest days.
“De Vries advises buyers to be sympathetic, because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.”
Poor bastards. I’ll make sure to kick GENTLY, OK?.
Reduced from 450K to 325K, Oxnard CA:
http://vcrdsmls.rapmls.com/scripts/mgrqispi.dll?APPNAME=vcrdsmls&PRGNAME=MLSLogin&ARGUMENT=ZYBXixnZWBCMZ6m7e6Bi6czfbYT02PsiN5mpjMXbEs0=&KeyRID=1
On market 613 days and it’s still overpriced. Worth all of 50k
As my brothers-in-law own a business not 200 feet from this property I feel qualified to inform you that the parking spaces alone are worth more than $50k. The house is a slow mover because it is zoned M1, not because of the price.
Mind you I wouldn’t own a small M1 lot in Oxnard for any price as the planning staff are not going to let you do anything with this property but $400/sf is not as strange as is being portrayed.
We’ll agree to disagree.
What is M1?
Zoned for manufacturing. The sfr on the lot is grandfathered but could not be expanded or rebuilt. The ize of the lot is also considered non-conforming thus most any business would not be allowedd to locate there either. That is why the property is slow moving. Zillow shows dozens of similar properties nearby with higher zestimates and recent selling prices. This is just a problem property and not indicative of the low end in Oxnard where population pressures are driving insane prices.
Hi Robert welcome back
325K is still an obscenely overpriced amount for this chicken box.
OMG………Is that a house?
Pass
It’s different everywhere!
Look at all the preforeclosures in Oxnard recently.
865K reduced now over 100K (Ventura/Oxnard):
http://vcrdsmls.rapmls.com/scripts/mgrqispi.dll?APPNAME=vcrdsmls&PRGNAME=MLSLogin&ARGUMENT=ZYBXixnZWBCMZ6m7e6Bi6Uy16mVjpvtjWaYWt47i5Fs=&KeyRID=1
Not as bad a deal as many. Possiblt $4600/mo in rents goes a long way towards meeting a 7.5% non-ownwer occupied mortgage with 20% down if you have enough income to take the full mortgage interest deduction. Mind, it is in Oxnard and I sold everything out of that city years ago and won’t go back AFAICT but the numbers almost work. When some places are selling for 250x rent, 180x rent doesn’t look as horrible.
That one should have the 325k or less sticker price. That’s just sad. 865k with no lot insanity…
It’ll get there.
house haters had the palm springs episode where they buy for their 3 year old- wow a 2005 show , the kid’s going to be pissed
Instead of kicking FBs when they are down, contribute to the bailout: http://www.naca.com/index.jsp
Washington D.C.(April 11, 2007) — At 9:30 a.m. on Wednesday April 11th at the National Press Club in Washington D.C. in the Marrow Room, Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America (“NACA”) will announce a commitment of One Billion dollars to rescue the victims of predatory lenders and to organize victims to stop the foreclosures and make them whole.
…
To ensure these predators modify the loans, NACA is announcing a “Call for Action” on Saturday, April 21st. Anyone who has an unaffordable mortgage or is at risk of foreclosure needs to come to one of NACA’s 33 offices at 2:00 p.m. on this day. NACA welcomes everyone….
Never heard of NACA before, but it seems to be a thinly disguised REIC promoter.
FBs were not forced to buy what they could not afford; give them no mercy. If you want a bail out, then have those flippers who made a ton of money, which there were some, contribute all their gains to this bailout first.
Yea, that should turn out well…
Hurry up and buy or refinance id!
April 11 (Bloomberg) — Federal Reserve officials concluded last month that higher interest rates could still be needed even as they removed a reference in their policy statement to tighter credit.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aj1pn8.gVwVQ&refer=home
“ Federal Reserve officials concluded last month that higher interest rates could still be needed ”
Bwaaa haa haa ha!
Hmmm.. extra 0.25% interest coupled with another 15% off the house? I’m ok with that deal. Besides, I feel savings should be stimulated with decent returns.
Bwaa haaaaa ha ha!
Got popcorn?
Neil
“Besides, I feel savings should be stimulated with decent returns.”
I wonder how much the Fed would have to increase the Fed Funds Rate to turn around the negative national savings rate? Or is that still something they are not worried about?
Published Tuesday | April 10, 2007
Time to panic over empty piggy banks?
BY JOE RUFF
WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER
Americans’ personal saving rate in the last couple of years has dropped into negative territory for the first time since the Great Depression.
Savings as determined by the U.S. Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Economic Analysis:
Personal income: Salaries, wages, fringe benefits, interest and dividends.
Personal savings: Money remaining after paying taxes and after buying and spending on goods and services, such as food, education and car payments. Savings can be in bank deposits, purchase of assets such as stocks and bonds, contributions to individual retirement accounts (IRAs) and 401k plans, employer contributions to pension plans, investment in homes represented by down payments and payment of mortgage principle.
Not included in personal savings: Capital gains on 401k plans, IRAs and other stock holdings; appreciation in value of homes. Some people argue that capital gains and the rising value of homes should be included when calculating saving rates.
Sources: Bureau of Economic Analysis; Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco
Two trends are clear. More people are invested in the stock market than ever before, and many people use the equity in their homes to finance other spending.
Here is the scary part: Stock and housing markets can fall just as quickly as they rise. That means people watching their stocks and homes increase in value might feel wealthy - until those markets drop.
In fact, the federal government does not even count capital gains on stock and any appreciation in the value of houses as savings.
The reason?
Capital gains - even gains accumulated in 401k retirement plans - are simply an exchange of money from one institution or person to another. They do not physically add to the nation’s assets, said Kurt Kunze, an economist at the Commerce Department’s Bureau of Economic Analysis, which estimates the nation’s personal saving rate each month.
“Your gain is somebody else’s price,” Kunze said.
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1208&u_sid=2362539
Thanks, GS, for posting this. The astounding decrease in savings in recent times really alarms me. You and others on this blog have also made me realize that it’s not just enough to save - you have to save wisely/ i.e. conservatively.
I’m sleeping very well lately.
Americans’ personal saving rate in the last couple of years has dropped into negative territory for the first time since the Great Depression.
First time? I’m quite sure that I’ve been hearing about American’s negative saving rate for nearly a decade now.
watching the orioles play detroit tonight. Of the 25k in attendance, 60% paid too much for their homes (the batboys included) and will be underwater soon, with resets looming. What will this do for the price of a brat and a beer? Beer and a brat for a $1!! Excellent.
100% paid too much for their tickets
“East Bay subprime borrowers who were more than 60 days late with their mortgage payment rose from 4.29 percent to 12.23 percent in February year-over-year. That number rose from 4.04 percent to 12.94 percent in Solano County year-over-year, Bob Visini of First American LoanPerformance said.”
12.23 percent delinquent??? That is stupendous — systemic risk at its worst…
12% already, with a housing market still relatively strong and a decent economy in the bay area. This is going to finish in a bloodbath.
“‘It’s God’s country, what can I say,’ (said) Leslie Appleton-Young, chief economist for the California Association of Realtors. ‘When is the 30
percent decline in Marin County’s market going to happen? Not in my lifetime.’”
“Marin’s foreclosure activity nearly doubled in the fourth quarter of last year. By comparison, notices of default were up 134 percent in the nine-county Bay Area over the same period, DataQuick reported.”
Let’s see now. Marin’s activity is up 200% while everyone else is 130%.
Hmmm, how long did Les say she intended to live? Should we call the Suicide Hot Line?
Roidy
Here is a truly brilliant proposal to fix the subprime lending crisis:
More loans to help people buy homes they cannot afford!
———————————————————————————-
More subprime lending could cure mortgage woes
Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:22PM EDT
By Patrick Rucker - Analysis
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. homeowners who bought a home with a subprime mortgage, and now face foreclosure because they cannot make their payments, may have an unlikely remedy: get another subprime loan.
The interest rates on as much as $1.5 trillion worth of adjustable-rate mortgages could rise this year, increasing the monthly payments for borrowers.
Paying off an old subprime loan with a new mortgage with similar monthly payments, but changes in other terms, is one of the few options many borrowers may have to avoid foreclosure, according to industry sources.
While not a long-term fix, such subprime loans can be a stopgap measure that lets a borrower cut payments and repair their credit rating.
But rising delinquencies have resulted in falling lending volumes in the subprime mortgage market for less creditworthy borrowers, while regulators have threatened to forbid certain mortgage products.
That could leave many subprime borrowers stranded with no financing options if their mortgage interest rates reset at higher levels and become unaffordable, said Patrice Yamato, president of the Florida Association of Mortgage Brokers.
“If regulators come in and disallow subprime lending, we are going to end up seeing more foreclosures because these people just can’t get another loan,” she said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN1162094420070411
Whose wallets will the blue state party rob to keep homeowners who bought houses they cannot afford stay in their homes?
==========================================================
US plans curbs on subprime lenders
By Gillian Tett in London and Eoin Callan in Washington
Published: April 11 2007 22:01 | Last updated: April 11 2007 22:01
US politicians are drawing up a bill that could make it less attractive for Wall Street investment banks and other financiers to repackage risky mortgages into securities and then sell them to investors around the world.
Senior figures in Congress hope to force the financiers who buy mortgages and create mortgage-backed securities to share some of the liability – and thus financial cost – that might arise if mortgages were mis-sold to borrowers who proved unable to meet payments.
The proposal, which will be debated by the House financial services committee next week, could reduce the flow of finance from the capital markets into the mortgage sector. Politicians and consumer groups blame such flows for the lax lending practices that developed in the subprime market in recent years.
The idea under consideration is intended to assist distressed homeowners and prevent a recurrence of the subprime lending problems – initiatives that will also include tougher rules about how mortgages are sold to home buyers.
“We will regulate mortgage brokers,” Barney Frank, Democratic chairman of the financial services committee, told the Financial Times yesterday.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/39e30d7a-e863-11db-b2c3-000b5df10621.html
“U.S. homeowners who bought a home with a subprime mortgage, and now face foreclosure because they cannot make their payments, may have an unlikely remedy: get another subprime loan.”
Yep what a great idea……..give the alcoholic another drink
Exactly, perfect analogy…
Use tax dollars to purchase the alcohol used to give the alcoholics more drinks.
“While not a long-term fix, such subprime loans can be a stopgap measure that lets a borrower cut payments and repair their credit rating.”
I am guessing this is a likely point where the taxpayer will be secretly stuck with the tab, for chipping in the cost of helping the FBs refinance at lower interest rates. I suppose BB could just drop the FFR to historically low levels just like his predecessor did, no?
And the US $ ?……….where does that go?
And as well as that……….what happens to the yen carry trade?
interesting times we live in
Recentered SAT scores (going from a handful of perfect 1600s to thousands was not kids getting smarter), government assistance to help make sure the financially unstable don’t have bad credit ratings up. What next? School teachers taking the tests for the kids so the kids get into better grades?
These highly touted scores will have NO MEANING unless we stop this score inflation.
Judge me on my merits/qualifications vs. someone else’s merits/qualifications. That’s the only way these scores matter.
Damn, I’m mad.
If you are in a hole, keep digging, there may be some gold down there!!
LAY says ‘When is the 30 percent decline in Marin County’s market going to happen? Not in my lifetime.’”
Anybody get the feeling she was talking to us…
Notice she didn’t say 10%, 15% or 20% so she is accepting 25% + but 30% may be a safe bet that she is willing to say in public. 30% is a pretty big hit, hell even I might agree with that, but being in the public’s eye and already losing credibility, she really should keep her pie hole shut.
“‘People have bought houses they can’t afford, period,’ said economist Christopher Thornberg. ‘So unless the government is going to give them $100,000 to $200,000 each, what option do they really have?’”
Nightly Business Report on PBS just did a segment on subprime bailout. One option is to make the MBS investor “liable” for any non-performing loans. It would make them pickier about which loans they bought. Mortgage guy came on and said oh no, that would create a horrible credit crunch. Some other group wants to “force” lenders to lock in FBs at their current interest rate, not the reset rate.
But seriously, folks. How many of these FB’s are going to willingly fork over years and years of mortgage payments now that their goose isn’t going to lay that golden egg after all. How many of these people were in it for the long term?? Come to think of it, I didn’t see a single borrower who was interviewed. No one said they’d be willing to keep living the Ramen lifestyle in order to stay in their house, regardless of how much it had plummeted in value.
People bought houses they couldn’t afford. People also buy TV’s, vacations, clothes and cars they can’t afford. It shouldn’t be any different.
Whose pockets will Shumer pick to make whole the people who used risky loans to buy stuff they cannot afford?
http://www.salon.com/ent/video_dog/comedy/2006/02/06/debt/index.html
Some other group wants to “force” lenders to lock in FBs at their current interest rate, not the reset rate.
What possible legal/constitutional justification can there be for something like that, applied to contracts that are already signed and in force? Shades of the Soviet Union.
this is BS!!! Don’t know if it’s been posed yet but:
U.S. housing aid needed, Schumer says
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070411/ap_on_bi_ge/housing_woes
Does the Prudential sign in the picture on that Yahoo story remind anyone else of a tombstone?
Maybe this person wants out (selling a twnhs 100k under comps)
http://www.ziprealty.com/buy_a_home/logged_in/search/home_detail.jsp?listing_num=A706743&page=1&property_type=CONDO&mls=mls_so_cal&cKey=mdnj4r1x&source=MRMLS
I had long expected that the “FEAR” mentality would hit LA.
When “gotta buy..” turns to “gotta sell”
you either gotta rent, or or wait this out,
scary stuff, even for a r.e. brear.
Oh let me please rant on why the “bail-out” is BS.
Did Congress bailout the millions of Americans that lost their shirt buying stocks in 2000?
I missed that one.
When people make stupid decisions why do YOU or I have to help these people out.
Hell,
I made stupid investment decisions before.
Come On,
didn’t you, at one point in your life LOSE money on something?
Then what happenned after you got burned?
You learned from it right?
That’s what makes this country great… is you can take a chance
and win big or lose big.
Why should I, or any one else feel sorry for you?
De Vries advises buyers to be sympathetic, because sellers don’t need to be kicked while they’re down with obscenely low offers.
If it’s a speculator that’s selling, I say kick ‘em hard, and keep on kicking until the blood flows. For the most part, thanks to speculators’ efforts, we here in CA have half million dollar bungalows and condos.
Watch the video, sing the song:
Dirty Money, by Leslie Appleton-Henley
I make my living off the buyer’s blues
Just loan them money, they’ll pay their dues
People don’t know what they lose, they love dirty money
Well, I could’ve been an Realtor, but I wound up here
I just have to look good, and I try not to sneer
Let me whisper in your ear, take the dirty money
Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em all around
We got the bubbleheaded blog-bears, with all their jive
They can tell you about the price crash with a gleam in their eyes
It’s interesting when buyers lie, take the dirty money
Can we film the prosecution? Is the well dry yet?
You know the boys in the backroom got a running bet
Tell the sucker not to sweat, take the dirty money
You don’t really need to find out what’s going on
You don’t really want to know just how far it’s gone
Just leave well enough alone, take the dirty money
Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
Kick ‘em when they’re stiff, kick ‘em all around
Dirty little secrets, dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers in everybody’s pie
Love to cut you down to size, we love dirty money
We can do the innuendo, we can dance and sing
When it’s said and done, we haven’t told you a thing
We all know that crap is king, take the dirty money
I love it!!! Nicely done sm.
Most of you are correct. But some us “boomers” didn’t capitalize on the housing “boom”. It’s always seemed to me that it didn’t do any good to anybody, except the people that made tons of money over it.