May 3, 2007

Bits Bucket And Craigslist Finds For May 3, 2007

Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.




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215 Comments »

Comment by jmf
2007-05-03 04:24:29

UBS Profit Falls as Hedge Fund Losses Hurt Bond Fees
UBS seems to be the anti goldman…..

shiff vs a nuts guy on cavuto / video

Owning a Home in the Suburbs of London / NYT

M3 in europe / Chart
good that the ecb has an official m3 target…….

http://immobilienblasen.blogspot.com/

Comment by shadash
2007-05-03 06:03:57

UBS is taking a major hit right now.

Comment by txchick57
2007-05-03 06:53:44

I believe SOMEONE here recommended UBS as a short sell about 6 weeks ago ;)

Comment by rachits
2007-05-03 20:28:00

yeah, but you would have still lost money on it.

the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent

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Comment by chicagobubbleblog
2007-05-03 06:44:59

For what it’s worth….Zillow Quarterly Home Value Reports

http://www.zillow.com/quarterlies/QuarterlyReports.htm

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-05-03 04:28:50

First!

Comment by Jingle
2007-05-03 06:57:53

not

Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 07:49:46

On my machine, mrktMaven showed up first, but then a little later, jmf showed up posted above mM with an earlier logged posting time. Don’t know how this works exactly.

Comment by auger-inn
2007-05-03 07:55:19

This happened on my computer as well.

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Comment by jmf
2007-05-03 07:59:16

i think this is caused from the spam filter ben is using

 
 
Comment by BubbleWatcher
2007-05-03 09:14:02

I think Ben should implement a rule that any message saying “First!” is pushed down by incoming messages. This should solve the problem.

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Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2007-05-03 08:20:54

You’re only first if you have something to say, or I should say contribute.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-05-03 08:22:55

Uh-oh! Just like the Effed Company website, we’re now having races to be the first responder.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 10:31:29

I thought the race for first had something to do with payment defaults?

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2007-05-03 04:30:55

GMAC, Some funny lines in this one. ” If you strip out the sub-prime losses they had a pretty good quarter” Hey same here if I strip out all of my debt I have a butt load of money.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aHvtL.eadU6Q&refer=worldwide

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-05-03 04:51:05

What happens to their previous quarters if you strip out their subprime gains? Oops. That’s a question they sure don’t want to answer. And how much accumulated interest income have they recorded but not actually received?

 
Comment by Key Lime Toast
2007-05-03 05:07:18

Strip out Iraq and the US foreign policy is really working well.

 
Comment by John Fleming
2007-05-03 05:18:30

Strip out the subprime…and we wouldn’t have made any sales…

 
Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 05:31:46

wmbz’s post prompted me to go once again to the ARM reset schedule and see how the acceleration of subprime resets stacks up as a component of the accelerating total of ARM resets. We have often noted that the average ARM reset rate in billions per month will be about double, in Aug 07 through Feb 08, compared to what it has been in Jan-Apr of 07. Specifically the same is true of subprime resets, which account for something like 2/3 of the resets scheduled for the next ten months. (Then the subprime component drops off.) Thus, the notion that the money set aside to save ResCap will suffice, seems lame. I mean LAME (see wmbz’s link).

Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-05-03 05:51:43

Does anyone have any data for historical ARM resets in 2006 and 2005 in order to compare to 2007 and 2008? Thanks.

Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 07:56:57

A 6/19/06 posting on Bubble Meter points to an AP article (which I can’t find) that supposedly reports ARM resets would jump from $300B in 2006 to $1000B ($1T) in 2007. I cannot square this with our well-known Credit Suisse chart, which appears to show maybe $500B resetting in 2007. However, the $300B in 2006 makes sense if we just suppose that the roughly $25B/mo in the first few months of 07 was the steady monthly flow in 06.

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Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-05-03 09:00:50

Thanks Az_lender.

So the 2007 and 2008 resets are from 2x to 3x the 2006 resets. I don’t know the relationship between resets and foreclosures but its obvious foreclosures will snowball from present rates (which are the results of the financial situation six to nine months ago) to the end of the year.

What do you guys think the foreclosure rates will be by the end of the year without a recession—1.5x, 2x, 3x the present rates? What about with a nice (soft) two year recession?

 
Comment by bradthemod
2007-05-03 09:20:53

Wow, an accelerated foreclosure rate? How will that bode for real estate being a darling of an investment? An up stock market, a probable impending shakeout in real estate, and inflation that is kept in check? Do we have a combo of those events often?

 
 
 
Comment by dude
2007-05-03 06:46:23

That’s why I have the reset bargraph as my wallpaper. It’s an edumacation for everyone who passes my desk.

Comment by chilidoggg
2007-05-03 08:43:11

are you all talking about this chart?

http://forum.themarkettraders.com/read-m/26/6829/6896

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Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 08:49:13

yup

 
 
Comment by sf jack
2007-05-03 08:59:07

I have the Credit Suisse chart as part of my screensaver-slide show.

I also have the chart showing inflation adjusted median house prices for San Francisco over the last 25 years or so, which clearly shows that the 1989 peak was not exceeded again until 1999.

And I also have the Shiller chart as reprinted by the NYT (over 100 years of US house prices), which is the original graphical representation of the house price roller coaster ride we’ve all seen recently.

Those are my “top 3″ - if anyone sees them, my hope is that they are pretty much self-explanatory.

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Comment by jim A
2007-05-03 09:53:39

And remember, with minimum payments, those option ARMS will recast into unaffordability long before the ARM feature resets. There’s going to be a WORLD of hurt within the next twelve months.

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Comment by FutureVulture
2007-05-03 10:13:06

How long does the typical option mortgage take to recast, assuming typical payments are made (or not made…)?

 
Comment by jim A
2007-05-03 13:00:08

ISTR (vaguely) Tanta over at calculated risk saying a year or two depending on the neg am limit.

 
Comment by FutureVulture
2007-05-03 13:03:59

Thanks!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2007-05-03 04:31:03

I stopped by a local RE brokerage and management company to drop off my rent check yesterday. The person on front desk duty told me that 1 out of 7 homes in Hillsborough County (Tampa, Florida area) was in some stage of foreclosure. This was anecdotal, but this is a large RE company with a number of offices around the Tampa Bay area and they always have meetings at which the latest statistics are reported, so that everyone keeps up with market conditions.
That is a mind-blowing statistic. 1 in 7. Wow, just…wow!

Comment by Domi
2007-05-03 06:14:43

I’m surprise that person told you knowing that they work for the RE brokerage company.

Are you sure he/she wasn’t trying to find out if your were interested in RE?

Comment by palmetto
2007-05-03 06:22:52

They don’t care. Foreclosures are an opportunity for the company. It’s just part of the market and they go whichever way the wind blows. Just business. They’re shocked, I tell you, shocked that so many people bought homes they couldn’t afford.

 
 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2007-05-03 04:48:53

Interesting articles about telecommuting in SF due to the freeway fire and subsequent collapse of a major artery.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20070501/tc_zd/206469

Comment by dude
2007-05-03 06:52:15

You don’t say?

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2007-05-03 04:48:53

Interesting articles about telecommuting in SF due to the freeway fire and subsequent collapse of a major artery.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20070501/tc_zd/206469

Comment by dude
2007-05-03 06:53:08

Three times.

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2007-05-03 04:48:53

Interesting articles about telecommuting in SF due to the freeway fire and subsequent collapse of a major artery.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20070501/tc_zd/206469

Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 07:58:49

Don’t laugh, the same misfortune that befell “need 2 leave ca” has happened to many of us. Maybe he just needs 3 leave california.

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2007-05-03 04:49:34

WBMZ - please don’t strip

 
Comment by Russ Winter
 
Comment by Key Lime Toast
Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-05-03 04:53:53

The pin is out and this guy is trying to pass the grenade to the next sucker before it really blows up.

 
Comment by Lou Minatti
2007-05-03 05:33:25

It’s interesting that the more f***ed the home debtor is, the more incoherent their Craigs List ads are.

Comment by palmetto
2007-05-03 05:41:38

Yes. It has very much become the fashion in the US to be a complete moron. Craigslist is an interesting social commentary on this scary phenomenon. I even think some RE management companies that post there use Indian or Chinese low-tech services to do their posting. A common Tampa Bay rental ad has a headline that reads “Dealing With These Apartments, You Will Be Successful”. What does that even mean?

Comment by aNYCdj
2007-05-03 06:13:29

Notice the BAD SPELLING:

PT/FT — LO’s / TELEMARKETERS / TEAM LEADERS WANTED!!
Reply to: jobs@equityfreedomcorp.com
Date: 2007-05-02, 7:39PM EDT

Equity Freedom Corp is a New York Based company seeking Loan Officers, Jr. Loan Officers, Telemarketers and Team Leaders.

Take advantage of this Very Lucrative carere opportunity, making 5-20K monthly.

Great Spring and Summer Oportunity for STUDENTS. Put X-tra money in to your pocket while building a strong and exciting carere.

Students Welcome.

Whether it’s internship or not, you can learn and get hands on experince on how financial industry works.

With our extensive training program, you will learn tricks of the trade, and start producing. Even if you are new to the industry we will help you get on your feet.

1. TEAM LEADERS
Work in a fast pace environment with ability to increase your income exponentially, have your processors stay on top of your team deals, so you can have more time to concentrate on your workforce.

Due to the rare and extrordinary payout options and other exciting benefits please call us at 718-332-0010 or e-mail at info@equityfreedomcorp.com

All of the major details are in person to person interview.

LOAN OFFICERS
Payouts start at 50% to 80% based on production volume.

Fast processing times on a full package, with ability to close within 3-4 days.

Still do 106% financing on wage earners and self employed.

Plenty of office space and resources for you to develop and improve your pipeline.

Top of the line processors keep in touch with you throughout workday, thus gurantee that you loan is not sleeping. 20 minute submissions and approvals with basic 1003 information. 40 Minute complete submissions on the full file with the next day commitment.

24 Hour appraisals guaranteed.

Call us today to find out more information 718-332-0010

or e-mail at info@equityfreedomcorp.com

TELEMARKETERS

Equity Freedom Corp is offering a rare opportunity to learn mortgage business with hands on experience like never before.

Have a real producing LO as your partner, who will teach you ins and outs of this lucrative and exciting business. Get real hands on experince on the field and phone, without having to do the guess work yourself. Watch your loan every step of the way untill closing. Learn how to close a deal in days, not weeks or months. Learn how to be on top of your stips even before the commintment.

And the most beautiful part of it…………. Is get paid like pro.

No small telemarketing or beginners comissions………….. Learn and Grow your pipeline.

For more information please call 718-332-0010 or e-mail info@equityfreedomcorp.com

Due to the unusual and rare parameters of the training program and payout options, you can get complete information only with face to face interview.

* Compensation: COMISSIONS, SALARY, BONUSES, EXPENCE PICK UP.

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Comment by Brad
2007-05-03 08:44:44

his last job was fortune cookie writer?

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Comment by phillygal
2007-05-03 09:21:09

Too funny. That’s also what I was thinking.

“Dealing With These Apartments, You Will Be Successful” does sound Fortune Cookie-ish, like next one:

“If One Lives Within Means, Trophy Wife Departs”

which can only signify one thing:

“HELOC Mean Husband Wake Up Happy”

 
 
 
Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 05:51:30

Maybe we shouldn’t be TOO hard on this guy, even though he typed “tade” for “trade”. When he bought his property in 2003, apparently he put down more than 25%. But he picked a poor category of property — Sarasota condo penthouse, oops. Funny how he talks about “my equity” - I don’t see that he has any.

 
Comment by Key Lime Toast
2007-05-03 05:55:25

I think they are…. self-medicating.

 
Comment by rms
2007-05-03 06:24:41

“It’s interesting that the more f***ed the home debtor is, the more incoherent their Craigs List ads are.”

Good observation Lou. You know, it’s amazing to think that the mortgage industry has been putting functionally illiterate people into $500k+ homes at 100%+ LTV.

Comment by bluto
2007-05-03 07:10:56

Folks who can read might not be as willing to sign on to the contract.

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2007-05-03 08:43:39

The whole idea was to target people that were just interested in the investment hype/fear of being priced out forever . I’m sure alot of the target borrowers were younger people who had no hope of getting into real estate .Take something away from people by high prices and give it back to them by faulty 100% lending and the borrowers will bite .
Now that the lenders are learning that you can’t keep a market going based on real estate churning of uqualified speculators and short term buyers with no skin in the game ,the market is going to crash .
Isn’t it wonderful how the foreclosures are going to determine the market value .People were cheated by this fake market . People should not of been in competition with unqualified buyers and liar speculators .

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-05-03 04:52:40

BMW profits plunge by 38%. They have a bunch of excuses but I’m guessing they will be one of the first casualties of the passing HELOC fad.

Comment by Lou Minatti
2007-05-03 05:20:45

That and the subprime auto loan fad. No more Escalades, no more Bimmers. The bling industry will also suffer as the credit cookie bowl is taken away from the idiots.

Comment by Lionel
2007-05-03 06:55:05

I sometimes wonder how much creative auto leasing presaged the housing bubble - comsumers getting accustomed to having more car than they could truly afford. I lived in an okay apartment in a nice part of LA years ago (Pacific Palisades), and my neighbors had absurdly nice cars, high end bimmers, Lexi, etc. One neighbor, a conspicuously stoned roofer, had a brand new truck for work, a BMW 7 series, a Lexus for his finacee, and some off-road vehicles. I’m sure his selling dope on the side helped supplement his income, but his income clearly didn’t support that stable of cars. I used to scratch my head at how everyone but me had somehow figured out how to make a lot of money. I don’t think it was until I discovered Ben’s blog that I made the connection between high-end cars and creative financing.

I might very well be the only Anglo on the Westside who drives a Corrolla.

Comment by Jingle
2007-05-03 07:11:42

Lionel, I can really relate to your observation. I needed to landscape a back yard in Sept 2006 and called three landscape companies. They all showed up in brand new vehicles. One guy had a GMC 5500 4×4 w Dual rear tires. I did not even know they made a truck above the 3500. You could have towed a 18-wheeler’s load with this monster. He had the dealer sticker in the window. He bid $9,000 to put in a back yard (no concrete work involved). I almost fell out of my chair. Absurd. I ended up putting it in myself for $500 in materials and a couple of weekends labor. He calls back a couple months later saying he would do it for half price ($4500) cause he needed the work. Shheeesh.

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Comment by Barry
2007-05-03 12:23:56

You can have your business purchase pretty much any vehicle and expense it right away - no need to depreciate. That encourages conspicuous overconsumption. (It also discourages profitability, but hey.)

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 08:02:27

This has been going on for a long time. In 1981 I specu-vested in some West-By-God-Virginia oil wells. The guy putting together the cartels drove everyone around in huge new SUV’s. Within a couple of years he was filing BK. Why I didn’t actually lose any money is, grace of God(?)

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Comment by phillygal
2007-05-03 05:24:34

When I worked in the REIC a lot of realtors drove Bimmers.
And Lexi.

 
Comment by rms
2007-05-03 06:26:57

“BMW profits plunge by 38%. They have a bunch of excuses but I’m guessing they will be one of the first casualties of the passing HELOC fad.”

It’s a good thing that the housing meltdown won’t effect the larger economy.

Comment by Neil
2007-05-03 06:47:52

Everything is contained, move along, nothing to see here. Folks, the economy hit bottom, move along.

DON’T PANIC!

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by implosion
2007-05-03 07:27:07

1787 BMWs for sale on ebay. Been steadily going up for months.

Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 08:04:31

implosion, thanks for defending me last weekend against “We Rent!” who thought I should be more willing to take a straight job. I have to tell you, though, you give me too much credit. I have often been lazy in my approach to life.

Comment by implosion
2007-05-03 12:09:09

az_l,

Working is highly overrated imo. I have minimal tolerance for welfare abusers, but if someone has worked and saved/invested smartly enough that they no longer need to work and aren’t collecting welfare, more power to them.

LIke many here I’m sure, I’ve worked since being a teenager. Janitor in a hospital while in HS. Construction work every summer while in HS and as an undergrad. Paid for college myself, etc. Worked full-time in SoCal aerospace after undergrad while getting a MS and PhD.

Now, I have to admit I can f*ck-off with the best of them, which is why I’ve always gone to school while working full-time. I figure it’s at least somewhat productive and keeps me out of trouble.

Can’t really call me a professional student since I’ve always worked. I’m not even a particularly good student since I can be lazy. No doubt the monetary marginal return on the activity turned negative a long time ago. I can only describe it as a hobby run wild since I will hit 735 semester hours this semester and degree number 13. I’ll be the first to tell you though, I still really don’t know jack sh*t, imo. There is always more to learn. Debating whether to finish 2 other MS programs I’m in.

Apparently I still have my blue collar upbringing though, since someone told me at the local bar, “you don’t talk or act like someone with a lot of education.” I guess those people have a different demeanor. ;)

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Comment by aladinsane
2007-05-03 13:52:32

I got to retire a couple of years ago, barely in my 40’s…

To define oneself only vis a vis what you do to make a living, strikes me as very sad.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by arlingtonva
2007-05-03 04:53:26

IBM is addressing its U.S. cost base

Maybe high home prices aren’t such a great thing?

“We’re putting in place a series of actions to address our U.S. cost base, including a basic focus on resource and cost management disciplines and rebalancing of resources as we execute our global resource strategy,” Chief Financial Officer Mark Loughridge said on a conference call with analysts on April 17, according to a transcript of the call.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2124847,00.asp

Another Report: Big Blue plans to bring on 14,000 Indian workers as it proceeds with U.S., European layoffs.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/24/news/fortune500/ibm_india/

People still think high prices for homes are great for society. It’s not. It means your cost basis, as the IBM CFO puts it, is unattractive and you may be out of a job.

High home prices are pricing people out of jobs.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-05-03 05:40:30

High housing prices are going to be a killer in the global economy. Real estate will feel downward pressure for years and years to come due to globalization. For some reason people thought it would mean real estate would go up. I guess people are just stupid.

Comment by nhz
2007-05-03 06:02:01

sure, but the other side of the story is that as long as the bubble is growing (it still is outside the US) this same mechanism is pushing prices up in the developing areas (e.g. Eastern Europe) because some of the well-paid professionals move out of the most expensive regions (or buy investment properties abroad), and because local workers get higher incomes (e.g. Polish construction workers who actually work in the Netherlands - they are poorly paid by Dutch standards, but highly paid by Polish standards and certainly drive up local home prices in Poland).

Comment by chilidoggg
2007-05-03 08:49:36

i’m curious to know if you are having the same experience in Netherlands with poor unskilled immigrants as we have in Los Angeles: more working adults in the same household able to pay higher rents than nativeborn Americans.

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Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 05:56:47

When the US dollar gets cheap enough, we might have Indians and others buying vacation homes in Aspen, Hilton Head, and Martha’s Vineyard. That’s not going to save Bakersfield or 85249 (reported to be Toast!) or Port Saint Lucie.

Comment by wwallace
2007-05-03 06:41:26

I’m from Bakersfield, Ca. I would say the average cost of cooling a 2000 sq ft home here is 200-400.

Comment by buckyball
2007-05-03 14:32:06

That’s because the effing builders don’t give even passing respect to energy guidelines published by EPA and PG&E. That figure could be cut considerably by using proper levels of insulation and double-pane windows with e-glass. (Not bloody likely in cookie-cutter homes.)

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Comment by indiana jones
2007-05-03 06:11:35

Never understood the ‘high house price is good concept’. It’s like paying $5 for a loaf of bread & is nothing more than inflation for something everyone has to have. I have relatives on the West Coast who just gloat about how much their houses are worth although now they couldn’t afford to buy the houses they live in.
I am glad we have all these rich people in the country who are wanting to move there and buy.

Comment by In Colorado
2007-05-03 07:35:06

When people like that gloat I remind them that because their home prices are so ridiculous that their kids will have to move away when they grow up (if they want to own a home).

Comment by gather no moss
2007-05-03 08:04:33

Yes, and possibly a lot of wealth accumulated by the older generation will be spent on various services including assisted living. However, if the younger generation was able to live closer, they would be able to help mom and dad in their old age and preserve some of the family wealth.

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Comment by chilidoggg
2007-05-03 08:53:12

yes, but the grand scheme here is to bankrupt(not) the Boomer kids, and the Greatest(?) Generation with their houses paid off will die (with no estate taxes) leave that house to the loser kids to pay back the bank. Everybody wins!

 
 
Comment by REhobbyist
2007-05-03 13:31:08

I’ve thought about that Colorado, and if need be, will help the kids buy (if they want to live near their old parents!) Hopefully prices will come down enough so families can be together. :-)

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Comment by jim A
2007-05-03 10:09:12

Couldn’t agree more:
1.) Asset prices are a zero sum game. For every dollar somebody makes selling their home, someone else pays an extra dollar to secure the benefits of homeownership. The same is true of stocks.

2.)If YOU can’t afford to buy your house, who can? Who are you going to sell it to? Sometimes neighborhoods gentrify, and you get the little old lady in a paid for house surrounded by people much wealthier, but an entire state? I will grant that many people think that SF is a much nicer place than Omaha. But the weather* isn’t 5 times better than it was in 2000, and people aren’t being paid 5 times as much so what gives.

*Now the invention of AC DID much to increase the habitability of the sunbelt, but nothing in the last 5 years has.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-05-03 16:46:42

Tiny house behind a chain link fence in the middle of a huge Boeing parking lot - I kid you not. You have to admire perseverance (As long as it isn’t mental illness. How to tell? ;))

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Comment by jim A
2007-05-03 10:09:12

Couldn’t agree more:
1.) Asset prices are a zero sum game. For every dollar somebody makes selling their home, someone else pays an extra dollar to secure the benefits of homeownership. The same is true of stocks.

2.)If YOU can’t afford to buy your house, who can? Who are you going to sell it to? Sometimes neighborhoods gentrify, and you get the little old lady in a paid for house surrounded by people much wealthier, but an entire state? I will grant that many people think that SF is a much nicer place than Omaha. But the weather* isn’t 5 times better than it was in 2000, and people aren’t being paid 5 times as much so what gives.

*Now the invention of AC DID much to increase the habitability of the sunbelt, but nothing in the last 5 years has.

 
 
Comment by Loafer
2007-05-03 09:14:04

“We’re putting in place a series of actions to address our U.S. cost base, including a basic focus on resource and cost management disciplines and rebalancing of resources as we execute our global resource strategy,”

Sorry, everyone, but I’m English - could someone translate this statement for me…?!

Loafer

Comment by the_voz
2007-05-03 09:28:08

Ill give it a shot:
“Im saying something that sounds really smart, but in reality Im just blowing a lot of smoke up your @ss.”

that about cover it?

Comment by Loafer
2007-05-03 09:39:59

Thanks, that makes alot more sense!

Loafer

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Comment by jim A
2007-05-03 10:10:42

Wave byebye to your jobs as they go to Mumbai.

 
Comment by Army No. Va.
2007-05-03 10:36:02

We are going to layoff tens of thousands of people in the US and hire their replacements in Asia.

 
 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2007-05-03 04:53:43

From yesterday’s thread. From CNN Money. “John Devaney’s not a developer, and he’s certainly not a flipper. The CEO of United Capital Markets is a bond trader. And one of his specialties is buying and selling bonds that are backed by the mortgage payments of ordinary homeowners.”

“Option ARMs? Devaney loves ‘em. ‘The consumer has to be an idiot to take on those loans,’ he says. ‘But it has been one of our best-performing investments.’”

Will the consumer idiots get the last laugh on this asshat CEO when they stop paying on their mortgages and he becomes a big bagholder? I don’t want to invest in his company.

Comment by In Colorado
2007-05-03 07:30:10

These clowns seriously underestimated the number of people who would default on their “creative products”.

To paraphrase Obi Wan Kenobi: Who’s the greater fool? The fool who takes out a loan he can’t pay back, or the fool who lends him the money?

 
Comment by AKRon
2007-05-03 08:31:50

It is going to take awhile before the (non-agency) CDOs detonate. If the FBs stop paying, the CDO still gets paid, just by the guarantor of the mortgage backed securities (often the company who bought the loans and securitized them, aka Fremont (hee hee), Countrywide, etc.) It is only after the securitizer defaults that the CDO will eat it, big time. I expect the CDO market (non-agency) to stay calm for awile (maybe another year?), and then unwind with surprising speed.

Comment by Loafer
2007-05-03 09:16:20

And I think UBS agree with you!

I had a message from the head of bond trading at DRCM just after the problems started, and it appeared they were going “double or quits”.

It looks like it came up “quits”.

Regards,

Loafer

Comment by droog
2007-05-03 11:57:31

Sounds like a classic martingale strategy…

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Comment by Max
2007-05-03 09:27:48

By the time it all unfolds, this CEO will be chillin in the Carribean with a pina colada. A smart guy too:

The consumer has to be an idiot to take on those loans

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2007-05-03 04:53:43

From yesterday’s thread. From CNN Money. “John Devaney’s not a developer, and he’s certainly not a flipper. The CEO of United Capital Markets is a bond trader. And one of his specialties is buying and selling bonds that are backed by the mortgage payments of ordinary homeowners.”

“Option ARMs? Devaney loves ‘em. ‘The consumer has to be an idiot to take on those loans,’ he says. ‘But it has been one of our best-performing investments.’”

Will the consumer idiots get the last laugh on this asshat CEO when they stop paying on their mortgages and he becomes a big bagholder? I don’t want to invest in his company.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-05-03 05:33:26

Sometimes you need to be patient and let a post find its way through the system. You don’t need to keep submitting. It will make it there. I have found that posts get held up due to some issue with the database or one of Ben’s profanity filters catch it. Be patient!

 
 
Comment by arlingtonva
2007-05-03 04:54:06

Here is a little snippet that exposes some of the bias in the news.

May 1, 2007, CNN’s chief technology correspondent, Miles O’Brien, and his wife, Sandy, are asking $3,495,000 for a Manhattan apartment they bought two years ago:

http://www.realestatejournal.com/columnists/private/20070501-private.html

Now I understand this April 19, 2006 transcript, in which CNN anchor Miles O’Brien tries to muzzle any idea there is a housing bubble:

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/19/ltm.02.html

Pay close attention to comments made by Miles O’Brien near the end of the transcript as he insists that it’s a great time to buy RE.

O’BRIEN: It’s still historically low numbers.
O’BRIEN: It’s still a great investment. And now is the time to buy.
O’BRIEN: Oh, you are? Oh, you’re a bubble burster, huh?
O’BRIEN: Think of it as a buying opportunity. As interest rates go up, people will rush out to purchase.

O’Brien has a soap box with millions watching and uses it push the idea that buying RE in April 2006 is a good idea, while failing to disclose he has millions of his own money invested in it.

Comment by Arwen U.
2007-05-03 06:16:32

“rush out to purchase”

GAG. If interest rates even nudge up, nobody will be able to purchase (at current prices). They’re already “up” for most as in no access to no-doc subrime loans.

 
Comment by dude
2007-05-03 07:14:31

Anybody else notice how the AP headline for GM quarterly cahnged from “PROFITS DOWN 90%” to “GM Reports 1Q Profit of $62M”. No bias there.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-05-03 16:51:20

Or radio report noting the problems are from their “Former loan company” after already pointing out that they still own 50% of it.
Not former enough.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-05-03 18:07:10

Sorry, my bad. They unloaded their 51% share on a GF, and also speculated their pension into the stratosphere so… You Go Goodwrench Guys.

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Comment by watcher
2007-05-03 04:59:22

Watching Bloomberg this morning, I saw UBS earnings are down due to hedge fund losses of over $100 million in the last quarter. The culprit was subprime loans, and UBS will take a charge of over $300 million to close the fund. Not all Wall Streeters are rocket scientists.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-05-03 05:20:04

I beg to differ. We had dinner and a couple of beers right off Wall Street last night. Everybody in there definitely thought they were a rocket scientist or better. Just ask them.

 
Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 08:08:41

I have worked with a lot of rocket scientists, and many of them have no idea about the housing bubble or bust. Maybe the problem with Wall Street is that it IS now full of rocket scientists (who were overproduced in the late 20th century).

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2007-05-03 08:34:43

Hey, I work with a rocket scientist. Degree in astronomic engineering, worked for Boeing aerospace… Now he does software QA.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-05-03 13:56:29

Careful…

My wife IS a rocket scientist.

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Comment by implosion
2007-05-03 15:51:55

I agree on the overproduction part. Rocket scientists are a dime a dozen. If there were academic or research jobs available, perhaps many of them with PhDs might not be on WS. I know people with PhDs in physics that became quants because there were no academic jobs available.

Many schools have grad programs in financial engineering these days. Good paying jobs with an MS in the field.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-05-03 16:56:54

Yeah, when are all those over aged NASA contractor guys going to retire anyway ;)

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Comment by chilidoggg
2007-05-03 08:56:41

i don’t recall anyone here screaming “BUY” a year ago because they knew the market was going to go straight up 30%…

Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 09:37:38

“…Despite its recent eclipse of 13,000 the Dow now buys 30% fewer euros than it did then back in 2000 when it was priced at approximately 11,500. It also buys 35% fewer gallons of milk, 40% fewer bushels of corn or wheat, 65% fewer ounces of silver, 70% fewer barrels of oil, 80% fewer pounds of copper, and 90% fewer pounds of uranium. Try figuring what the Dow will buy in terms of other necessities, such as housing, insurance, college tuition or hospitalization. Any way you measure it, the Dow is worth far less today then it was in January of 2000….”

Peter Schiff
Euro Pacific Capital
April 27, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2mamqa

Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 10:34:48

That about sums up the product of current macro policy, which is to fool the common man into thinking the stock market is doing great by inflating its value through “liquidity injections” (aka helicopter drops), while letting the dollar take the hit.

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Comment by Arwen U.
2007-05-03 05:05:51

Getstucco posted this story on “principles” on yesterday’s Bits N Bucket, but it was after dozens of other posts. I had noticed them at WaPo and put them up at my blog. They do seem like bloviating “style over substance”. I can’t believe they have any enforcement “teeth”. (Perhaps I’m too cynical). But I think the market itself is working to some extent as we see lending standards actually being tightened.

WASHINGTON — Several major participants in the home mortgage market have agreed to adopt a set of principles for dealing with homeowners with high-priced loans who face possible foreclosure, the chairman of the Senate Banking Committee [Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn] said Wednesday.

These “principles” include:

- Contacting distressed borrowers promptly to try to work out arrangements;
- Making loans more affordable by reducing rates, changing terms and other means; and
- Providing refinancing at the lowest cost possible for those who are eligible.

The “major players” who adopted these principles include:

The Mortgage Bankers Association; Wall Street powerhouses Citigroup Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co. HSBC Holdings Corp. and Bear Stearns & Co.; government-sponsored mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac; AARP; and the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights.

Those companies who did not endorse the principles include:

Countrywide Financial Corp. and Wells Fargo & Co.

“These principles represent a critical step in preserving homeownership and economic opportunity,” Dodd said in a statement. “The companies and organizations that endorse these principles demonstrate their commitment to being part of finding solutions to foreclosures.”.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 06:59:48

Why do you think CFC and Wells are averse to joining Dodd’s bailout cartel?

Comment by AKRon
2007-05-03 08:38:09

My guess is because money given to FB to refinance is money flushed down the toilet. Only Fannie and Freddy (and other agencies who secretly hope that the cost can be moved to the fed) will line up for that. BTW, I would not call Freddie and Fanny ‘gov’t sponsored’. They are federally chartered, but are not (in theory) supported or guaranteed by the gov’t- they are private corps.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 21:14:23

I didn’t name them Government Sponsored Enterprises — Congress did:

TITLE 12 - BANKS AND BANKING
CHAPTER 46 - GOVERNMENT SPONSORED ENTERPRISES

-HEAD-
Sec. 4501. Congressional findings

-STATUTE-
The Congress finds that -
(1) the Federal National Mortgage Association and the Federal
Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (referred to in this section
collectively as the “enterprises”), and the Federal Home Loan
Banks (referred to in this section as the “Banks”), have
important public missions that are reflected in the statutes and
charter Acts establishing the Banks and the enterprises;
(2) because the continued ability of the Federal National
Mortgage Association and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage
Corporation to accomplish their public missions is important to
providing housing in the United States and the health of the
Nation’s economy, more effective Federal regulation is needed to
reduce the risk of failure of the enterprises;

(3) considering the current operating procedures of the Federal
National Mortgage Association, the Federal Home Loan Mortgage
Corporation, and the Federal Home Loan Banks, the enterprises and
the Banks currently pose low financial risk of insolvency;
**** (4) neither the enterprises nor the Banks, nor any securities
or obligations issued by the enterprises or the Banks, are backed
by the full faith and credit of the United States; ****

(5) an entity regulating the Federal National Mortgage
Association and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation should
have sufficient autonomy from the enterprises and special
interest groups;
(6) an entity regulating such enterprises should have the
authority to establish capital standards, require financial
disclosure, prescribe adequate standards for books and records
and other internal controls, conduct examinations when necessary,
and enforce compliance with the standards and rules that it
establishes;
(7) the Federal National Mortgage Association and the Federal
Home Loan Mortgage Corporation have an affirmative obligation to
facilitate the financing of affordable housing for low- and
moderate-income families in a manner consistent with their
overall public purposes, while maintaining a strong financial
condition and a reasonable economic return; and
(8) the Federal Home Loan Bank Act [12 U.S.C. 1421 et seq.]
should be amended to emphasize that providing for financial
safety and soundness of the Federal Home Loan Banks is the
primary mission of the Federal Housing Finance Board.

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/12C46.txt

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Comment by John M
2007-05-03 07:43:08

“Big US mortgage firms won’t back subprime principles”, by Patrick Rucker, Reuters, May 2, 2007.
http://tinyurl.com/3e2s2b

The two largest mortgage lenders in the United States [CountryWide and Wells Fargo] have declined to endorse a set of principles that would help troubled subprime borrowers avoid foreclosure, a lawmaker [Sen Chris Dodd] who proposed the principles said on Wednesday.

 
Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 08:57:25

It’s easy for them to say they will “make loans more affordable”. All they have to do is tell a person whose ARM is resetting that his payment will go up only 30% instead of 60%.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-05-03 05:10:33

Housing Bubble Haiku:

When you bought your own prison

Let me ask you

It was your decision?

Comment by Timster
2007-05-03 06:22:46

Dear aladinsane
Funny poem, not haiku
Try five-seven-five

Comment by bluto
2007-05-03 07:17:39

Technically a 5-7-5 poem is called senryu if the subject is human nature, and haiku if it’s about the natural world or humanity’s place in the world.

Comment by Trojan Horse
2007-05-03 08:34:43

hey, cool! I learn something new every day. Thanks for that.

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Comment by jim A
2007-05-03 10:25:13

N O Ds in mail
land like pink cherry blossoms
Silent spring of F Bs

 
 
 
Comment by John M
2007-05-03 07:27:25

No it isn’t haiku, but five-seven-five has little to do with it.

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 09:05:57

When they learn they can’t
All turn into Donald Trump,
Everyone’s a poet.

Comment by FutureVulture
2007-05-03 13:03:00

I knew a homebuyer named Bennett.
Every dollar he made he soon spent it.
He said in dismay
“I won’t give it away –
till the market comes back I’ll just rent it!”

Comment by aladinsane
2007-05-03 15:46:52

I put a Haiku on you

‘Cause i’m playing with

Most of youse’s mind

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Comment by kckid
2007-05-03 05:14:26

Has anyone in CA know anything about Sharebuilders FCU?

DAILY NEWS) LIQUIDATION NOTICE TO CREDITORS OF SHAREBUILDERS FEDERAL CREDIT UNION The National Credit Union Administration Board placed the Sharebuilders Federal Credit Union Charter No. 13135 19901 Nordhoff St. Northridge CA 91328 into involuntary liquidation pursuant to its authority under Section 207 (a) (1) (A) of the Federal Credit Union Act. All creditors having any claim or demand against Sharebuilders Federal Credit Union must submit their claim or demand in writing together with proof by August 3 2007.

Comment by Crapburner
2007-05-03 05:31:34

Credit Unions will not be immune to the Bubble bursting when it comes since most of its loans are in consumer goods (cars, SUV’s) and housings (RE loans).

Still getting flyers from my CU about cutting yourself into the good life by borrowing 110% of the value of your house or townhouse (which I have not done and do not live off of credit).

I am slowly going into cash on hand, pre-65 silver coins (junk silver), staying out of debt and looking for cheap farmland. Other than that, I have no investment ideas for getting anywhere near the Bubble.

 
 
Comment by jmf
2007-05-03 05:18:22

2nd try

UBS Profit Falls as Hedge Fund Losses Hurt Bond Fees
ubs seems to be the “anti goldman”

M3 in europe / Chart
good that the rcb has an official m3 target…..

shiff vs a nuts guy on cavuto / video

Owning a Home in the Suburbs of London / NYT

http://immobilienblasen.blogspot.com/

Comment by jmf
2007-05-03 05:29:36

sorry for the double post.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-05-03 05:33:19

“Nothing in the world makes people so afraid as the influence of independent-minded people.”

Albert Einstein

Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 08:59:57

“The Government [is] extremely fond of amassing great quantities of statistics. These are raised to the nth degree, the cube roots are extracted, and the results arranged into elaborate and impressive displays. What must be kept in mind, however, is that in every case, the figures are first put down by a village watchman, and he puts down anything he damn well pleases!”
Charles Stamp

 
 
Comment by Orlando Native
2007-05-03 05:47:13

Bankrupcties up in Central Florida. Flippers, slumping housing market, rising debt and prices to blame.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-mbankruptcy0307may03,0,7779396.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

Comment by Orlando Native
2007-05-03 07:30:36

Another article in same newspaper touts that the value of Orlando housing has increased in value. I think I smell some B.S. with the Orlando Sentinel.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-homevalue0307may03,0,4365680.story?coll=orl-business-headlines

 
 
Comment by Joe Schmoe
2007-05-03 05:49:45

Anyone know anything about Charlotte, NC? I was just offered a job down there and have to admit that it is interesting.

My impression is that Chalotte is a “less bubbly” market. There has probably been some overbuilding, and some area residents have undoubtedly used option ARMS and the like to overleverage themselves. That said, Charlotte really is growing by leaps and bounds and has a economy that is not predominantly re-based. And even if it is overvalued, it’s still far more affodable than places like CA.

Also, from a non-RE stanpoint, what is Charlotte like? What are the people like? How is the local economy? What are your subjective impressions of the area? Any information would be very much appreciated as I value the perspectives of my fellow bubble bloggers.

Comment by palmetto
2007-05-03 05:59:09

I don’t know anything about Charlotte other than what I have read, but I made a prediction once that the Carolinas would become the new California of the US, in terms of economic opportunity.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-05-03 06:10:17

Charlotte is building, building, building. Anything outside the 485 loop is growing by leaps and bounds. The highway infrastructure in Charlotte was not designed to handle the level of growth that has taken place. The southside of Charlotte is very prosperous but is getting too built up. The Lake Norman area is ridiculously overpriced and if you have to commute to downtown Charlotte (they call it “Uptown”) you will curse the day you were born. Both 77 and 485 have turned into a nightmare.

Charlotte is in Mecklenburg County. The taxes are high. You can go to Union County in south Charlotte and pay far less in taxes. You can also go to South Carolina (Fort Mill or Rock Hill) and pay less.

Some parts of Charlotte are pretty scary. The east side can be rough or very redneck. Ditto with the north, especially as you go out towards Gastropolis (Gastonia).

Charlotte is a very pedestrian unfriendly town. It is obvious that the city exists for the developers, not for the citizens. People drive like maniacs. They all think they are out at the speedway. The parks are few and they can get taken over by a crowd you probably don’t want to be around. South Blvd. which leads right into downtown should be nuked and started fresh. It is a death trap.

There are good restaurants in Charlotte. The barbecue is good. Johnson and Wales relocated there so the restaurant quality should get even better.

Charlotte can be a nice place to raise kids. It can be very boring if you don’t have kids. Bank of America keeps the economy fairly strong. If anything ever happens to BofA then Charlotte is in deep d’ohhh. I hope this helps.

 
Comment by Englishman in NJ
2007-05-03 06:31:02

I visit Charlotte on business often and have friends who live/have lived there.

I really like the town itself, and it is a town, not a city. The downtown is relatively small but has good restuarants/bars, is very clean and safe, and the people, to me, always seem friendly. However, most of the people I talk to are not originally from Charlotte but from the NYC area and work in financial services, so I’m not sure how representative this sample is.

Strange to see people smoking cigs and cigars in bars, I suppose that will never change given NC’s economy. Some say that Charlotte is boring and too quiet and nothing much to do, but I say if you have young children it might be a good place to raise them (I know nothing about the schools though).

 
Comment by WT Economist
2007-05-03 07:02:01

Charlotte is boring, and relies on two companies for its economic base — Bank of American and Wachovia. But it is trying to diversify, and the southern Applachians and Outer Banks are close enough for weekend travel (but the latter is far enough away to avoid hurricanes). Not a bad package.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2007-05-03 07:43:08

Consider that if the Charlotte RE market were to tumble, you might be upside down in the 5 figure range as opposed to being 6 figures under water. After all, how much can a 150-200K house’s price drop?

 
Comment by Eudemon
2007-05-03 07:45:39

I lived in Charlotte for ten years - from 1993-2003.

I’m from Chicago, so that colors my view of things there.

It took me a couple for years to break the ‘code’ of Charlotte, but once I did so, I liked the area a lot. (Remember this - your first couple of years there may be a bit tough and disconcerting socially). Despite that, the people are decent overall, and most of those who work, work hard. There’s a readily identifiable let’s-roll-up-our-shirt sleeves-and-get-to-work mindset there. A great many people are involved civically, at various levels. Lots of public support for police/fire/hospital depts. (How many towns do you know of where 7,500+ residents recently lined up curbside to honor the passing of two police officers who were shot to death? That’s what Charlotte is about). If you’re the type who likes to get involved, you can do it there. (I did avoid the United Way there - their tactics are extraordinary).

There’s some good ‘ole boy networking stuff still going on, but not nearly as much as one might suspect. Certainly not more than the patrician politics common in most northern cities east of the Mississippi.

Re real estate: Charlotte’s never really gotten out of hand, price-wise. As others mentioned, Lake Norman is priced out of sight as are a few south/southeast areas (stuff between Park Road and Providence, from downtown south to 51.) Finding a good appraiser might be tough. Call the local NARI folks for names.

Unless things have changed since 2003, property taxes are pretty damn low, imo, contrary to what others have said here. I owned a 1,900 sq. ft. house; in 2003 I paid $1800/yr. in property taxes. That is not much (but remember I’m from Chicago where property taxes are excessive). Sales taxes, on the other hand, are high- about 7%. You’ll also have to pay an annual property tax on all of your vehicles. If you want to save money in Charlotte, don’t buy a $40,000 vehicle. You’ll pay $500-$750/year to the county to park it on your driveway.

Some pluses:
> Relatively low cost of living (but climbing).
> Two professional sports teams (Panthers, Bobcats). Ongoing attempts to move minor league ball team (White Sox AAA) to downtown area. Nascar is 20 miles away.
> Long springs. Fantastic spring weather! From late Feb to mid-May, temps are routinely in the 60s. Lots of sunny days.
> Light rail system under construction.
> Decent, but not great restaurants. Decent, not great theaters, venues, etc. Charlotte is working its ass off to make itself a destination. Another 10 years of to-the-grindstone work should do it.
> Many of the city and business leaders kick ass. Charlotte has managed to place several visionaries in high places.

Minuses:
> Local citizens have a difficult time cutting loose and enjoying themselves. They’re moving in that direction (massive change from 1993 to 2003) but still a ways to go.
> Mecklenburg school system is a mess. When I left, it had more students within the system than any school system in the country. (Yes, you read that right).
> Traffic is difficult and will get worse. Unfortunately, in this area, Charlotte is following Atlanta’s lead. A massive mistake. The new 63-mile beltway is a mistake - it will spread commerce far and wide. Think sprawl. Interestingly, no interstate exists for moving vehicles southeast out of town, toward Wilmington (the 7 miles of freeway that does exist stops now at Sharon Amity, I believe). Avoid the Independence corridor like the plague.

(NOTE: If you move to Charlotte and work downtown, be sure to buy near downtown. Check areas like Cotswold and Plaza-Midwood on the east side, or right along Park Road to the immediate west. If you work downtown you do not want to have to hop on I-77, 485, Rte. 51. All are nightwares and will extend your work day by 1-2 hours on a good day. Much better is to live off an arterial road like Monroe, Providence, Park, etc.

> Summer heat. If you like 90+ weather for 5-6 months a year, humidity and no wind to speak of, you’re in luck. Charlotte is not as bad as St. Louis or Columbia, but it does rival Washington D.C.
> Air pollution. Not a big problem yet, but it will be. Charlotte’s air is en route to becoming rancid. High heat, humidity and no wind means that the filth doesn’t circulate. Go up in any one of the downtown towers, and you can see layers of grime suspended in the atmosphere. And this in a city with just over a million people. Wait until the area is home of 2-3 million.

In summary, I liked Charlotte. It’s got a surprising Midwestern attitude about it (once you understand the local ‘code’) and many people there are interested in getting things done rather than just cutting deals. This is in opposition to Atlanta, where I lived for 4 years. Atlanta fancies itself to be the Los Angeles of the Southeast and many of its residents seem to thrive on cutting deals.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-05-03 08:27:20

If you have allergies, be aware. The pollen is so thick in springtime that it will paint your car yellow.

I agree with most of what Eudomon said. And taxes are high in Meck Cty only compared to surrounding areas. They are very low if measured against the East Coast.

Traffic would be a major concern if I was moving there. Move close to work. Dillworth is a nice area but it has gotten pricy.

 
 
 
Comment by eastcoaster
2007-05-03 06:09:44

In 2006, homes went down almost 6% (including inflation). Homes would have to drop an additional 25% to be back at the expected value of homes based on their historical 2.3% yearly increase.

And, since homes were being built to satisfy the increased demand of the last few years, there are too many homes for the reduced number of qualified buyers that will be standing after the crash. This makes it likely that homes will fall even MORE than 25%.

In other words, we have only seen the tip of the housing crash iceberg!

http://tinyurl.com/yq567f

Comment by PDXrenter
2007-05-03 07:36:17

In other words, we have only seen the tip of the housing crash iceberg!

Yes, this Titanic will sink, albeit slowly. I don’t even bother checking out open houses or websites on inventory or other such housing sale/purchase info anymore.

Right now I’m looking forward more to rents, as in “collapsing rents.” After 4-5 years I might buy.

BTW eastcoaser, weren’t you thinking of making an offer on a house recently? What did you ultimately do?

Comment by eastcoaster
2007-05-03 08:27:43

I found a better rental instead (moving in June). I’m off the buying kick for at least a year (probably more like two).

 
 
 
Comment by Crapburner
2007-05-03 06:35:59

Implode O Meter is down (Http 500 error)….Auto-Dogmatic blog is up yet….reports another subprime called Concord of Scottsdale, Arizona just up and closed.

Also, reports that Citimortgage will be closing some of its loan offices in July.

Anyone else reading this stuff or hearing more subprimes and now Alt-A financial outfits just up and closing in the middle of the night?

Comment by spike66
2007-05-03 07:00:45

Az_Lender,
This is for you, from The Daily Reckoning:
“Larry Fink, CEO of Black Rock (SEA:BLR), a trillion-dollar fund management company, spoke out last week and said that all these mergers and acquisitions were going to cause ‘tomorrow’s problems.’ Why? Because they are all funded with debt. And lending standards for big, commercial deals have gone the same way as the lending standards for people buying trailers.”

Comment by spike66
2007-05-03 07:04:14

Aladinsane,
This is for you, also from The Daily Reckoning:
“”Monday, the Department of Justice issued a bench warrant for the largest online transaction service backed by gold. According to a press release, ‘A federal grand jury in Washington, D.C., has indicted two companies operating a digital currency business and their owners on charges of money laundering, conspiracy, and operating an unlicensed money transmitting business.’
“‘The indictment is reaching…’ says Kevin Kerr. ‘In my opinion, the
underlying motive here is to create another hurdle for investors trying to move out of the ailing U.S. dollar and into other means of transacting business.’”

Comment by aladinsane
2007-05-03 11:12:14

When you don’t take physical delivery and allow somebody else to control your financial destiny, maybe the arse whipping you’ll endure is your own damned fault?

If you “own” metal, but not really, like this situation, it’s not too late to DEMAND the bonafide article, in lieu of a computer blip, methinks.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2007-05-03 11:44:07

Hard hard is it to buy an ounce of gold?

Ya know there are lots of flea market and antique dealers who love to transact in CASH….why bother buying from a big name that requires you to provide your name and SS#?

Hint: credit cards bank accounts…

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Mystry62
2007-05-03 06:49:43

Just curious, but does anyone watch Property Ladder on TLC? It’s been a riot watching it lately b/c all of the FBs are taking a bath on their flips. Most of the homes they have featured lately have not sold by the time the show was aired. One of the best ones lately was a newly-wed couple who renovated a 2/1 in CA (I think it was SF, but can’t remember). It was a small house and they went overboard on the “upgrades” for the neighborhood. They paid 180K, spent 50K+ renovating it and were asking $279K. The only person who showed up to the open house was the woman who lived down the street that was also trying to sell. The woman told them that if they get an offer, any offer, to just take it. The show ended with the guy saying “We just want to dump it…. as long as we don’t lose money”. Has anyone followed up to see if any these homes have actually sold? Just curious…

Comment by phillygal
2007-05-03 07:40:30

Most of the homes they have featured lately have not sold by the time the show was aired. One of the best ones lately was a newly-wed couple who renovated a 2/1 in CA (I think it was SF, but can’t remember).

FF to August 2008:
“One of the best ones lately was a newly-wed just divorced couple…”

Comment by Mystry62
2007-05-03 08:01:32

good catch, phillygal…. the wife was not looking too happy at all by the end of the show.

Comment by mad_tiger
2007-05-03 09:55:45

If it was the episode where the husband quit his day job (lost wages should be included as a cost item) in order to finish the house that was in Sacramento. Not a great place to be flipping.

Property Ladder, Flip This House, Flip That House–I can’t tell one from the other. Watching these shows made me appreciate the death grip real estate mania has on the public. Leverage to the hilt to buy a place, max out your credit cards to finance the remodeling, and dive right in without having the slightest clue of what needs to be done.

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Comment by Max
2007-05-03 09:36:14

The should call it Property Ladder (Down to the Mine)

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2007-05-03 11:52:21

Incredible Morons spending almost 1/3 to renovate an old house….

Why couldn’t $10-20K be more then enough to flip and still make a profit?

If that is one thing I learned on this blog is DO NOT rennovate and try to sell a home….just clean it up a little and lower the price and let the new owner do their own renovating…..or better yet find someone like me who does not love stainless steel and granite… but appreciates a BIG old fashioned mega gallon flush toilet…..

 
Comment by cassiopeia
2007-05-03 12:50:33

I don’t watch Property Ladder, but I do catch Buy Me in HGTV every now and then. Yesterday, a divorcing couple was unable to sell the home by the time the contract with the realtor expired. It’s amazing how the tone of the realtors in those shows has been changing in the last couple of months. It’s odd to watch these people go through the nerve racking process of having offers fall apart because the buyer couldn’t get financing or couldn’t sell the other property and not come to the realization that the house is way overpriced. Then you realize that they really cannot lower the price much because they would end up owing money to the bank and they don’t have it, it’s as simple as that. Watching these things makes my stomack turn, especially when there are kids involved. Imagine these kids going through the heartbreak of losing their dad and then facing foreclosure the following year. Not a pretty picture.

 
 
Comment by Walker
2007-05-03 06:53:57

I am Wilmington NC today visiting the family. The printed version of Star News has some good information on the Wilmington NC market this morning. 10.7 months of supply. I cannot find the article online however.

 
Comment by bitterLArenter
2007-05-03 06:57:04

Anybody know of a blog for Austin, Texas? I’ve been considering buying a rental duplex there, but can’t find anything but realtor cheerleading on the net. Maybe things really are different there, since the run up hasn’t been as great, but I also am suspicious if the market is just 9 or 12 months out from the rest of the country. Foreclosures seem to be mounting, and the downtown luxury lofts are showing up out the wazoo, signs to me the end is near.

Comment by WT Economist
2007-05-03 07:07:08

Read Steve Crossland:

http://www.crosslandteam.com/blog/

So many people have been buying houses to rent out that rents are falling, and they have a negative carry. He reports data I believe quarterly.

 
Comment by dude
2007-05-03 07:28:00

Austin is the current big thing being touted by the radio marketeers to investors ( read “chumps” ) I wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Comment by PDXrenter
2007-05-03 07:38:09

I don’t think buying rental properties ANYWHERE is a good idea at this time, or in the near future (12-24 months). Not even in places where rents are rising faster than inflation, if there are any such places left.

 
 
Comment by implosion
2007-05-03 08:08:06

IIRC, even some posters on SDCIA are saying that property in Austin is tough to positive CF these days.

Comment by bitterLArenter
2007-05-03 09:43:00

Thanks for the replies! I haven’t heard any commercials for Austin, I lived there so that’s why I’ve been keeping it in mind.

Yeah even with 20% down its going to take some negotiating to get a duplex that will cashflow after the 2.9% tax rate and managing fee, but I think it can be done.

Is it a good idea? That’s open to debate :-/

 
Comment by bitterLArenter
2007-05-03 10:16:35

SDCIA is great! I never knew it existed before, but the info is a real eye opener! thanks for your help!

Comment by implosion
2007-05-03 16:09:24

You know, of course, that HBB’s very own txchick57 is banned from that site. You’ll see some HBBers post over there as well. Not all folks over there are perpetual RE bulls. You can see a bunch of them hammering on TacoBell Jeff if you follow that thread. There are some discussion threads that convey information.

txc, “The First Burrito is the hardest…”, that still cracks me up. I like moquoi’s version as well…

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Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 07:04:34

On p. C1 of today’s WSJ (Who could have ever possibly foreseen this remarkable development?):

Bond Investors’ Lament
By Serena Ng
Word Count: 717 | Companies Featured in This Article: Fremont General, New Century Financial, Moody’s, McGraw-Hill

More challenges are hitting bond investors who own securities backed by risky mortgages.

Over the past two weeks, Moody’s Investors Service cut credit ratings on more than 30 bonds that were issued in 2006 and backed by pools of “subprime” mortgages, home loans made to consumers with troubled or sketchy credit histories. The downgrades came as more borrowers defaulted on their mortgages and caused losses to spike among the pools.

More than half the bonds that were downgraded were originally rated “investment grade” but were cut to “junk” status, because they now are viewed as much more likely to lose money. A few bonds with weak ratings already have been eroded by losses, which means investors in those bonds probably won’t be repaid.

“It’s unusual to see downgrades in subprime deals so soon after they were issued,”said Jay Guo, a director of asset-backed securities research at Credit Suisse Group. “This is not a normal phenomenon and is a cause of concern.”

Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 07:09:35

Here is a link to the preview on the above article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117815315528090267.html?mod=home_whats_news_us

 
Comment by dude
2007-05-03 07:26:06

This is the same Credit Suisse that is accused of making payments on behalf of borrowers in order to avoid buybacks?
For some reason I find it hard to believe their spin.

 
Comment by AKRon
2007-05-03 08:50:09

“The downgrades came as more borrowers defaulted on their mortgages and caused losses to spike among the pools.”

Yikes- I’ll have to see what is going on here. I am not surprised at downgrades, but I would not expect the money to stop flowing to the MBS yet. In most MBS deals, the pool of mortgages is guaranteed against default either by the securitizer or a third party, so that if a mortgage holder defaults, the guarantor pays. Thus the only risk on the MBS holder is inflation risk and prepayment risk UNLESS the guarantor appears unable to keep paying into the pool to make up for defaults. As the guarantor slowly moves closer to default, Moody’s and S&P wil lower the rating of the bonds. So I would expect to see losses due to downgrading at this time, but not actual loss of principal (except for cases where the guantor went BK, such as Fremont). Are the guarantors failing already? Or were the losses mentioned in this article just paper losses due to bond rating downgrade?

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 09:54:47

“… Investors are charging less than half the yield premium to buy junk bonds compared with 1998, when Russia’s default and Long-Term Capital Management LP’s collapse caused prices to decline. Now investors are concerned the slump in U.S. subprime mortgages may signal the best of the rally is over.

“The laws of gravity are being ignored and there will undoubtedly be some correction soon,” said Anton Simon, who invests more than $1 billion as head of European high-yield debt at Putnam Investments in London. Putnam is being “cautious,” he said, declining to give details. The Putnam World Trust II Global High Yield Bond Fund Simon manages owned Ford 7.875 percent bonds due in 2010 and NRG Energy Inc. 7.375 percent debt maturing in 2016 as of December, regulatory filings show.

Rising corporate profits and the fewest defaults in a decade lured buyers to bonds rated below Baa3 by Moody’s Investors Service and BBB- by Standard & Poor’s. The yield premium above government debt that investors accept to buy the bonds has fallen to 2.64 percentage points on average, down from 3.39 percentage points in July, Merrill data show.

`It Will Crack’

“It will crack at some point,” said Ian Spreadbury, who manages the equivalent of about $2.3 billion of high-yield bonds at Fidelity in London. “You don’t know when and you’ll never see it coming.” …

Bloomberg
http://tinyurl.com/yuv7tq

Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 13:18:38

“Investors are charging less than half the yield premium to buy junk bonds compared with 1998, when Russia’s default and Long-Term Capital Management LP’s collapse caused prices to decline.”

After reading that, me thinks the conundrum (including abnormally low risk premiums) may be more directly linked to the LTCM bailout than I previously realized.

Who was it who said that history has been unkind to protracted periods of low risk premiums?

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 10:38:51

“It’s unusual to see downgrades in subprime deals so soon after they were issued,”

Is he implicitly referring to subprime MBS where first payment defaults have reared their ugly head at material levels of occurance?

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 07:08:37

Is this push into loaning illegal immigrants money which is unlikely to ever be repaid to buy homes they cannot afford something new? I thought that was the purpose of liar loans? And why would the kingpins be interested in making more stupid loans if they did not think they had the backing of the U.S. taxpayer in the form of a future bailout?
———————————————————————————
Big Banks’ Loan Push: Illegal Immigrants
By Robin Sidel
Word Count: 743 | Companies Featured in This Article: J.P. Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, Fifth Third Bancorp, Genworth Financial, Deutsche Bank

The nation’s big banks, scrambling for customers, are pitching mortgages to illegal immigrants.

Two years ago, making home loans to people who are in the U.S. illegally was largely limited to community banks that wanted to revitalize neighborhoods by offering low-cost mortgages to local workers. There are signs that these loans, which comply with regulatory requirements and which represent a sliver of the nation’s $10 trillion mortgage market, are starting to take off in the broader banking industry.

J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. is developing a pilot program to pitch mortgages to illegal immigrants in Maricopa County, Ariz. If the bank proceeds, the plan could launch as soon as this summer. The New York bank joins Citigroup Inc., Wells Fargo & Co. and Fifth Third Bancorp, which are also experimenting with the loans.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117815439999290317.html?mod=home_whats_news_us

Comment by dude
2007-05-03 07:33:59

B.S., The outlying areas of Socal have been largely fueled by ileegals making home purchases with funny money. My house was bought by a guy who worked as a fry cook and spoke no english. He couldn’t even figure out how to work the thermostat. I know firsthand of several others.
Illegals have been able for at least 3 years to get a TIN number and establish a credit history, they are being fleeced as we speak because, along with the very young, they are essentially the only ones out there clueless enough to think that “now is a great time to buy”.

Comment by Domi
2007-05-03 08:20:13

“Illegals have been able for at least 3 years to get a TIN number and establish a credit history, they are being fleeced as we speak because, along with the very young, they are essentially the only ones out there clueless enough to think that “now is a great time to buy”. ”

It also puzzles me too. But I realized May 2006 how it was being done when I worked for Equifax and it appalled me on how they were able to add tradelines on their credit report through references that we had to contact. Then to find out that most of their references are one of their buddies.

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2007-05-03 08:15:59

Builders have to build and lenders have to lend. It might be as simple as that. I agree Citi and WF are undoubtedly convinced they themselves are Too Big To Fail and will be saved by SOME govt sleight of hand.

 
 
Comment by Cassandra
2007-05-03 07:40:52

Does anyone know what happened to http://www.mortgageimplode.com ?

Comment by Crapburner
2007-05-03 07:53:43

Same thing happened to Implode O Meter….it is gone, too…it was getting up to 64 or 65 sub primes and Alt-A financial institutions going belly up and just disappeared yesterday!!

Someone on internet trying to cut off news on impending bubble meltdown?

Comment by Big_Bob_Slob
2007-05-03 10:25:39

I go to implode-meter every day.

Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 12:30:25
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Comment by crispy&cole
Comment by Cassandra
2007-05-03 09:01:36

Thanks crispy. I noticed there is even a thread started about the site being down.

 
 
 
Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 07:43:08

Gulf oil producers assure thirsty Asia secure supply
“…But speaking to reporters in Riyadh, Al Hamili said crude fundamentals were sound and that Opec had no plans to hold an emergency meeting before its next scheduled conference in September, indicating an output rise was not imminent.

“We do not look at the price. We look at the fundamentals of supply and demand and they are in good shape,” he said.

Opec Secretary-General Abdullah Al Badri echoed that sentiment, saying in Riyadh there was no need for Opec to increase production this year….”

Gulfnews
3 May 2007
http://tinyurl.com/39vhkc

Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 10:08:37

Asia must ensure energy race does not become conflict

“…China, once an oil exporter, is now as eager as Japan to secure imports of energy. And China today is as prone as Japan to make commercially questionable decisions in the search for energy security. Beijing has struck multibillion-dollar deals with oil exporters such as Angola and Venezuela, and expects to benefit from the anti-Americanism of leaders such as Hugo Chávez, the Venezuelan president.

But Chinese willingness to hunt for natural resources without regard for the consequences almost anywhere on earth entails more than commercial risk: it endangers the country’s reputation and the safety of its citizens. In Sudan, China is accused of condoning genocide; in Ethiopia, rebels have killed its oil workers….”

Financial Times
http://tinyurl.com/3b2237

 
 
Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 08:36:48

China’s forecasting center projects 43% rise in 2007 trade surplus

“China’s aggregate trade surplus was expected to surge 42.8 percent from the end of last year to 254.03 billion U.S. dollars in 2007 although exports might grow less rapidly, a forecasting agency of the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) has predicted.

The year’s total exports were projected at 1.20 trillion dollars, up 23.7 percent year-on-year, compared with a rise of 27.2 percent last year. Total imports were estimated around 946 billion dollars, up 19.5 percent from the previous year, said a CAS report.

The surplus against the United States would rose by 23.5 percent to 178.2 billion dollars, with exports hitting 263.6 billion dollars, up 29.8 percent year-on-year.

The European Union would remain to be the largest trade partner of China, recording imports of 239.3 billion dollars from China and exports of 111 billion dollars.

The report released by the CAS’s Center for Forecasting Sciences said that China would export 29.2 percent more new high-tech products worth 363.6 billion dollars in total and import 20 percent more worth 296.7 billion dollars.

It also predicted a slowdown in clothing, textile and shoe exports with their annual growth rates ranging from 13.3 to 15.8 percent.

Crude oil imports would grow by a slower 4.8 percent to 69.6 billion dollars….”

Xinhua
2 May 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2qj5hn

At its current rate of growth China will have reserves of $2T by August 2008. Current Asian reserves (China, Japan and South Korea) are $2.7 Trillion (total Asian reserves are 3.37 Trillion). Saturday the Association of South Eastern Asian nations are having a finance meeting. The reason is to discuss ways to prevent a future currency collapse as happened in 1997. For the most part, we have no conception of how much the IMF is hated in Asia for its (IMF) action during the crisis. As a result the Conference will discuss pooling the reserves to defend against currency speculators - this is going to happen. It is doubtful that the Asian countries will form a single currency unit at this time, but it is under discussion.

A brief glimpse of Mssrs. Paulson’s and Bernanke’s dilemma. The world is disassociating from the dollar and from the US consumer.

 
Comment by johnny
2007-05-03 09:03:36

I’m hoping this is just more spin:
No. 1 nationally: ABQ homes keep appreciating
http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/stories/2007/04/30/daily17.html?f=et201&hbx=e_du

Comment by lnk
2007-05-03 19:32:21

The positive prediction comes despite slipping home sales in the metro-Albuquerque market.

A few Albuqerque observations:

Intel recently announced they are getting rid of 1,000 jobs at their Rio Rancho facility.

A house across the street from me (~3500sf, oversized for its lot, a “pre-McMansion” built in 1981 in an older neighborhood) has been sitting empty and for sale for about 1 1/2 years. I’m not sure the starting wish price, but a year ago it was listed at 749k, then 699k after memorial day, 649k by labor day, then 569k, 549k, 459k… and now 419k. I figure a fair price would be another factor of 2 cut.

A friend’s godfather (in their 80s, no mortgage or HELOC, planning to move permanently to their house in Phoenix) just sold their house — to a flipper! The 30-ish flipper thinks he got a great deal from “the old fools” because he got them to lower their 343k asking price by 30k and do some minor fix-ups, like having the hardwood floor refinished.
Meanwhile, the seller is happy to be out of the market after about 3-4 months on the market, and would have sold for half that price just to be done.

Lots of new McMansion developments. I’ve even seen nice older houses (about 2000sf) bought and demolished to put up 4000-5000sf “mansions”.

Older smaller houses in the 100-150k price range are selling really quickly (median income is 42k IIRC).

So we have both a housing bubble, and some buyers and sellers who are still pricing and paying reasonably.

(Full disclosure — I bought in 79 and had the mortage-burning party in 96, tax+insurance now just over $210/month, so I’m just an interested observer worried about the fallout on the general economy.)

Comment by lnk
2007-05-03 19:41:02

sorry, my bad — “Albuquerque”

 
 
 
Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 09:05:37

“…According to the latest official U.S. government trustee reports that were released on Monday of this week, the infinite-horizon discounted present value of our unfunded liability from Social Security and Medicare—in common language, the gap between what we will take in and what we have promised to pay—now stands at $88.2 trillion. The potent combination of lower birthrates, higher medical costs and longer life expectancies provides little reason to hope the figure will fall. Last week, I shared my concerns about our long-term liabilities that were based on earlier trustee reports, which tallied the shortfall at $83.9 trillion, a full $4.3 trillion less that this new report suggests.

Just how big is an $88.2 trillion shortfall? Well, it is almost seven times the U.S. gross domestic product. It is more than 100 times the country’s annual defense budget. If you divide the $88.2 trillion evenly among the 302 million U.S. residents, you get a per-person liability of $292,000—more than six times the average household’s annual income. Each of us would have to pay that sum today if we wanted to guarantee the solvency of our entitlement system for future generations….
The reason is straightforward: Bad fiscal policy creates pressure for bad monetary policy. When fiscal policy gets out of whack, monetary authorities face pressure to monetize the debt, a cardinal sin in my mind.”
Richard W. Fisher
Comments on Current Conundra
April 26, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/237uxz

What, me worry?

Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 09:10:55

“…History may place blame on this or that president or on Congress for failing to act. But, ultimately, the responsibility to solve these looming fiscal issues rests with voters. In the end, the person who is responsible for the $83.9 trillion meltdown that is happening before our very eyes—the person responsible for saddling each of your children and every other person you love with $280,000 in debt—is the one you look at in the mirror each morning.”

Richard Fisher
April 16, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2dbkvf

’nuff said

Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 09:12:10

Incredible that the unfunded deficit increased by ~5 Trillion in 10 days.

 
Comment by technovelist
2007-05-03 17:26:37

In the end, the person who is responsible for the $83.9 trillion meltdown that is happening before our very eyes—the person responsible for saddling each of your children and every other person you love with $280,000 in debt—is the one you look at in the mirror each morning.

Wow, I didn’t know I could stop the government from spending us all into permanent debt slavery.

I’ll take care of that right away! But wait… exactly how do I do that? Vote? For whom? I already vote Libertarian.

What a crock.

 
 
Comment by jim A
2007-05-03 10:16:15

Yes, but funny things happen with you multiply by ∞. (infinite horizon) Tiny differences in some of the estimated values (growth, healthcare inflation etc.) lead to HUGE differences in current valuation.

Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 10:56:15

“…Of course, every economic forecast is based on assumptions. The good news is the macroeconomic forecasts behind that five-year march toward fiscal balance are actually quite reasonable—3 percent real annual GDP growth between now and 2012, coupled with a 4.8 percent unemployment rate. But the promise of a disappearing deficit rests on another important assumption we should discuss in greater detail—that real spending growth will be held to a 0.4 percent annual rate, which is quite low by historical standards…

As you can see on the slide, real outlays from 2001 to the present have grown at an annual rate of 4.6 percent. By contrast, they grew at a 2 percent to 3 percent rate during the years Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan were in office, about 1.5 percent during Bush 41’s tenure and 0.8 percent in the Clinton years. …”

If anything the infinite - horizon estimate, based on an historically low “real spending of 0.4%”, is on the low side (current real spending is 4.6%). The deficit increases by 700B/yr when calculated at current expenditure levels.

For my calculations I use unfunded debt liabilities of 54Trillion. I am assuming in the next 5 years the elimination of social programs.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 16:14:25

“Just how big is an $88.2 trillion shortfall?”

Why can’t you fix that gap by running a printing press? Oops — SS benefits are inflation indexed; I guess it will also be necessary to hide inflation…

 
 
Comment by 85249 is Toast
2007-05-03 09:18:12

OT. Be sure to watch Ron Paul wipe the floor with the rest of the field tonight in the first GOP presidential debate on MSNBC. Lots of viewers are going to be pleasantly surprised by his positions.

Comment by palmetto
2007-05-03 10:07:23

cool, toasty, I love that guy.

 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-05-03 10:22:08

Thanks for the heads up.

 
 
Comment by Peter T
2007-05-03 09:58:43

Is it a buyers’ market now?

I don’t know where I read it but I found that it fit my view of the market:
It’s not a buyers’ market, it’s not a sellers’ market either, it’s a sheriffs’ market - foreclosures rule.

Comment by eastcoaster
2007-05-03 10:11:37

I had a discussion with the owner of my company today re: real estate. (He’s one who invests in it / has several rental properties.) He gave me the ol’ “it’s a buyers market” speech. I respectfully disagreed and gave my arguments. By the end of the conversation, he actually conceded that I was right.

Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-05-03 10:24:56

Be careful. You might get your azz fired arguing with your boss about money and investments.

Comment by eastcoaster
2007-05-03 11:44:08

Nah, he’s super cool. I work for a great company.

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Comment by txchick57
2007-05-03 10:25:53

The Dow’s Money Illusion
Scott Reamer
May 03, 2007 1:14 pm
The 2000 top was a top in the real SPX and Dow. The top in the Dow at present is a different story entirely.

Two things to note on the AAII bulls and bears statistics, which analysts have noted suggest public investors are extremely bearish relative to the more recent history of this sentiment poll.

First, in March 2000, bears spiked to 50 for the first time since October 1992 – eight long years in which the S&P 500 saw a 420% increase and the NDX advanced by 675% and both saw but one meaningful correction (1998). March 2000 of course was coincident with the price high in the SPX and NDX (the Dow peaked in January 2000). Imagine the headlines from that day if you will: “After the S&P 500 more than triples, investors are still bearish” or “Investors as bearish as they were at the start of the great 1990s bull market!”, etc. Based on the statistics surrounding this sentiment gauge up until then, it would have been a major buy signal. Precisely at the top.

Second, the public was, of course, involved and bullish up to their eyeballs at the 2000 top. But the 2000 top was a top in the real SPX and Dow. The top in the Dow at present is a different story entirely.

The new all-time highs in the Dow now being registered are a form of money illusion – the denominator has changed, in this case the value of the USD. Why? Because of massive, record credit growth over the last seven years. In real money (gold), in commodity terms (CRB), and heck even in other fiat currency terms (Euro, Swiss franc), the DOW is nowhere near its 2000 peak. The Dow priced in gold after all is down 56% from its all time peak in 1999; the S&P 500 priced in CRB index terms is down 37%. Heck, the DOW priced in Swiss franc and Euro terms is down 21% and 26% respectively from its 2000 peak. And of course the NDX is down much more in real terms against almost anything you care to price it in.

Thus, the real price of stocks is still far below the nominal peak in prices achieved in 2000 when the public was gaga for stocks. Why is this important in looking at the context surrounding the AAII sentiment stats?

As all students of market history know, no two secular (hell, no two cyclical) tops are made quite like those that came before it – particularly like those that came immediately before it: each has its own particular drivers – macroeconomic, microeconomic, sentiment, participation, etc. To look for the same public participation in stocks now is to (1) miss the fact that the US is not making real price highs and thus the conditions are materially different and (2) that whatever the next top is to form, it will almost certainly not be driven by the same dynamics (massive public participation) as the one that generated the real inflation adjusted (as opposed to the CPI adjusted) peak in 1999/2000. Rear view mirror investing is a form of illusion as well.

Hedge funds now make up about 50% of trading volume on the NYSE and in the corporate bond market on any given day. And they can be levered anywhere from two to 10 times their asset base. Whereas mutual funds can theoretically get 100% invested (and achieved close – 96/97% - in 2000 and now), hedge funds can get 200%, 300%, 1000% invested depending on the securities they trade and their risk appetites. The 19/21 days up in the Dow record recently set wasn’t a function of your no-good neighbor trading ETFs – it’s a function of hedge funds accessing a seemingly endless credit pool, driven by the free call option of 2%/20% economics, and fully embracing the type of moral hazard financial economics that the Fed, the BOJ, the PBOC, and the BOE have made public policy for the past five years.

If condo speculation on South Beach heats up again in three or four year’s time, the probabilities that it will be the same set of folks who are getting burned right now are close to zero. If another several trillion in credit is generated over that ensuing four years and prices of SoBe condos are back at the levels that prevailed in the halcyon days of Summer 2005 (while gold, oil, food, and natural gas are up another three-six times), you can bet another whole group of players will emerge to exploit that moral hazard.

Happens every time.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 10:35:42

Money illusion works well in a society where few people understand the difference between nominal and real stock market gains.

 
 
Comment by bj
2007-05-03 10:34:41

Oh look, MasterCard had record profits in the first quarter. Why would folks possibly be charging more?

NEW YORK -” MasterCard Inc., the world’s second-biggest credit card franchise, on Wednesday reported favorable currency exchanges and stronger use of its brand overseas led to a record first-quarter profit.

The Purchase, New York-based company said profit for the first three months of the year rose to $214.9 million, or $1.57 per share, from $126.7 million, or 94 cents per share, in the year-ago period. Revenue climbed 24 percent to $915.1 million from $738.5 million….

The amount of money cardholders charged increased 16.4 percent during the quarter to $509 billion. There was also a 19.4 percent increase in the number of transactions processed to 4.2 billion.”

 
Comment by chris
2007-05-03 10:45:50

Ugh.. got this email from penfed today.

Here’s your chance to make Mother’s Day that much more special for your mom, mother-in-law, or your wife. Whether she’s been dreaming of a cruise, a new car, or even some home improvements, treat the mothers in your life to the gift you’ve always wanted to give!

How can you afford such extravagance? Apply online right now for a Pentagon Federal Credit Union Home Equity Loan. Whether your gift costs $10,000 or sets you back as much as $400,000, a low-rate Pentagon Federal Equity Loan can help you make this the best Mother’s Day she’s ever had!

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit…

 
Comment by Englishman in NJ
2007-05-03 13:38:31

Don’t one of you guys live in Sedona?

I’m supposed to vacation there in August and someone told me it was the monsoon season there - can that possibly be true?

I really would appreciate feedback on this crucial issue since i’m about to rent a house there for two weeks in August.

Thanks for feedback.

Comment by lost in utah
2007-05-03 16:25:40

If Sedona is like much of the SW, big rainstorms come in and can dump huge amounts of water in a short time. However, if you don’t camp near streams or dry washes or hike in the same, it’s not usually so bad. However, keep in mind that drowning is the no.1 killer in the desert. But just keep your eye on the weather and usually the storms pass quickly.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-05-03 15:32:40

Rest in peace, Space Cowboy…

You inspired this child of the space age~

“ I don’t know if NASA could handle a von Braun today. They are so bureaucratic. In my day we had an inspired can-do agency. We had a president who was committed. We had Jim Webb who could sweet talk the Hill and the White House and we had von Braun to sell the program.”

Wally Schirra

Comment by Hoz
2007-05-03 18:51:57

“In German and Russian I’ve learned to count down and I’m learning Chinese says Werner Von Braun”
Tom Lehrer

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 16:24:24

Here are some hints for Dems hoping to recapture the White House:

1) Tighter lending standards now would be to the housing market as a sledge hammer blow to the head would be to a dying man.

2) Subprime will not be contained, regardless, but the devastating effects of non-containment would be faster if proposals to tighten standards pass.

3) It’s the economy, stupid! Most Americans (unfairly and ignorantly) attribute full responsibility for macroeconomic performance to the current occupant of the White House. Successfully crash the economy now and you increase the chances of retaking the Presidency. What’s more, the next guy in office will not get blamed if the housing market bust is already common knowledge as of inauguration day in 2009. (So far, the economic propaganda campaign to convince the average American voter that the situation will soon blow over is a success.)
——————————————————————————–
National & World News
5/3/2007 5:45:57 PM

Reforms demanded in Subprime lending market

Capitol Hill (AP) — Concerns that the distress in the subprime lending market could spill over into the broader economy are prompting some members of Congress to demand reforms.

Senators Charles Schumer, Sherrod Brown and Bob Casey have introduced a bill that would require tougher federal standards for mortgage lenders. They are also calling for greater public and private financing of consumer education programs aimed at helping homeowners avoid foreclosure.

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/national/article.aspx?storyid=54110

 
Comment by lost in utah
2007-05-03 16:35:07

quick update on W. Colorado RE:

Wells Fargo is having another massive (for here) bunch of open houses in my area (they sponsor it for the individual realty offices). Last week was the first one ever, and I went to bunches of houses and seemed to be the only person around (except the realtors). So here we go again.

Also saw a pickup by the side of the highway with a big billboard sign in its bed advertising “view lots.”

Today’s paper had several massive ads by builders offering specials (one was a “big fancy rock entrance” as an add-on) and also advertising “save realtors fees” - this is something I haven’t seen before, they always used realtors - or if not, they didn’t advertise like this.

Am also seeing “price adjustments,” “motivated,” and “new price” ads, more and more each week. Nothing massive yet, but it’s like an avalanche - always starts small then gradually becomes more massive and powerful.

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-05-03 18:19:58

Subprime is contained? American Public Media’s Marketplace claims otherwise. “GMAC lost $1b … could be the tip of a very large economic iceberg.” Includes quote of Schumer on bailout strategy… but his bill may not be going anywhere, as Christopher Dodd thinks the industry should “regulate itself.” (Thanks for listening! Maybe he will get some bubble bloggers to vote for him after all.)
—————————————————————————–
Mortgage meltdown keeps spreading
Listen to this story

GM reported today that the subprime mortgage mess has dealt a huge blow to its bottom line. And there may be more losses to come. Some analysts are predicting almost 2 million home foreclosures by the end of the year. Steve Henn reports.

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2007/05/03/PM200705031.html

 
Comment by nqdenise
2007-05-03 22:51:42

I work in the OC and live in the IE. (Orange County and Inland Empire for those of you not in the SoCal area.) Tonight on my drive home on the eastbound 91, I spotted a new billboard for Lennar.com, advertising “Homes in the 200K’s”. When I was in the Lake Elsinore area last Christmas, I saw some billboards advertising homes in the 300K’s, which until now was the cheapest price range I’ve seen on billboards in the IE. I would have to dig out my house-hunting notes from several years ago, but I am pretty sure this is the first time in 5 years I’ve seen a billboard advertising homes in the IE in the 200K range.

Just checked out the Lennar.com web site and they have exactly one development in Riverside County, in Beaumont, with prices “in the upper 200K’s”.

Does anyone know of any blogs covering the Inland Empire? I’ve seen plenty covering OC or the LA area in general. How about the Riverside area?

 
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