Sellers Are Lowering Prices & The Tide Is Starting To Turn
A report from the Arizona Republic. “One of the challenges Mary Hennecke is facing in selling her house in Gilbert is competing against incentives being offered by homebuilders. But, those incentives are also a major reason why she plans to buy a new house in Gilbert after her current one sells. ‘Anything that they can offer is certainly beneficial,’ she said of her next purchase.”
“Hennecke bought her home in the Higley section of Gilbert with her husband in November, and said she benefited from an $85,000 price reduction. She said she’s hoping that margin works in her favor, as she has to sell because of a divorce.”
“The Valley’s real estate market has 20-25 percent more inventory than it needs, said Jo Ann Webley, a real estate agent working in Gilbert.”
“Jay Butler, director of Realty Studies at Arizona State University, said this is a ‘hard market.’ ‘It may be finally settling in with sellers and agents alike that this market is where its going to be, and you better be realistic about that price,’ he said.”
“If sellers need to lower their asking price, they should limit it to one significant cut, Butler said.”
“‘I tend to favor the big move a little bit,’ he said. ‘If you do a lot of little increments, their question is when do you actually stop? There’s no incentive for them to make a move on it.’”
“Last year’s market was bad, said Michelle Krause, a real estate agent in Gilbert. But, sellers are lowering prices and the tide is starting to turn.”
“Anyone looking for a quick rebound in housing prices probably is in for a disappointment, said an economist speaking in Phoenix this week.”
“‘We think real estate prices will move sideways or slightly lower for several years,’ said Thomas Higgins, of Los Angeles investment firm Payden & Rygel.”
“He follows the ratio of median housing prices to median household income. Nationally, the figure is 4.9 times greater, and it’s a bit higher in the Valley, at 5.9. That implies more cooling off ahead so that incomes can catch up a bit to home prices.”
The East Valley Tribune from Arizona. “The Tribune spoke with East Valley developer Michael Pollack, who has been in the development business for more than 30 years, about the state of the Valley’s market. Here’s some of what he shared.”
“Q: How would you characterize the Valley’s current real estate market? A: I think that we have a lot of the real estate market currently, in all sectors, that’s overpriced. As I said back in the year 2004, I thought that we were getting way too much investor activity in the single-family marketplace, and I thought that the loans were way too creative.”
“Q: What kind of impact are we seeing now from that influx of investors? A: Investors in some cases are still holding out hope that the values will go back again to what they were in 2005 in fairly short order, and I don’t see anything that’s going to accomplish that…We need to hit the bottom. And I don’t believe we can hit the bottom until we sort through the subprime mortgages that are out there.”
“‘(People) got in on low teaser rates and now those rates are at a more market rate, and they can’t afford the house that they’ve got. They try to refinance it and it won’t appraise for what they bought it for. And then it gets worse because they put nothing down so they have no equity, So how do they refinance it?’”
In Business Las Vegas from Nevada. “The condo speculation boom appears to be over in Las Vegas. For the first time since the condo boom started in 2003, the number of proposed units in the Las Vegas Valley has declined, according to Applied Analysis.”
“And the report doesn’t include the latest condominium project to fizzle out when the Edge Group announced last week that its W Las Vegas project wouldn’t go forward.”
“‘I would say the development community is responding to current market conditions, and we have seen fewer new proposals,’ Applied Analysis Principal Brian Gordon said. ‘Developer speculation and land price appreciation have subsided. Developers are seeking to move forward with projects that are financially feasible more so than in the past.’”
“Applied Analysis reported that Las Vegas had a total of 4,214 condominium units at the end of the first quarter and another 13,409 were under construction and 9,546 have begun selling units.”
“In addition, there were 56,302 planned for a total of 83,471 units. That is down from a total of 85,809 existing or planned as of the fourth quarter. About 2,491 units were suspended and 11,814 canceled, 12 percent of the total.”
“Local analyst John Restrepo, principal of Restrepo Consulting Group, said he expects only about 10,000 units of the proposed projects that aren’t under construction to go forward over the next five years.”
“‘The market was never as deep as everybody thought it was,’ Restrepo said. ‘The one thing that drives high-rise condo sales, if you look around the country, is water views. The Strip is very exciting to look at at night, and certain segments want to be in high-density entertainment environments. But a lot of buyers of high-rise condo units want to be in more urbanized cities with water views.’”
“In a sign of investors leaving the market, Applied Analysis suggested in its quarterly report that as many as 60 percent of all condo units closed in Las Vegas may enter the market during the next 36 months as resales.”
“At the end of the first quarter, Applied Analysis reported there were 754 luxury units on the market with an average asking price of $803,900 or $622 per square foot. Units that sold during the first quarter averaged $764,500 or $537 a square foot, the firm reported.”
“By the end of the year, broker Bruce Hiatt said he expects an 18-month to 24-month supply of condos.”
The Las Vegas Business Press. “The bulk of the (condominium) market is still speculative, with 56,302 units accounting for 57.6 percent of the valley’s total inventory. Only 13,409 units, or 13.7 percent, were under construction in the first quarter”
“‘The vast majority of units in the pipeline have been sold and their total is exponentially higher than the present market inventory,’ maintained Brian Gordon, principal of Applied Analysis. ‘Land owners and developers are dealing with conservative reactions by the investment community and potential buyers, in response to recent reports that a supply-demand imbalance is inevitable.’”
“Unemployment was up slightly in Nevada in April according to a report released Friday. The report singles out the residential housing market’s continuing slump as the cause of rising unemployment. A decrease in home building has meant more unemployed construction workers.”
“‘While the construction industry makes up 11 percent of Nevada’s workforce, it accounts for 25 percent of unemployment claims filed through DETR,’ Department of Employment, Training & Rehabilitation Director Terry Johnson said. ‘There is clearly a disproportionate number of workers in the construction sector becoming unemployed. It seems that the housing slump is signaling less of a need for workers in this industry.’”
The Review Journal. “A moribund housing market is enlivening unemployment offices across Nevada. Jim Shabi, an economist with the agency, said the state’s building sector lost 2,600 jobs, year over year in April.”
“Builders closed on 1,771 new homes in Las Vegas in March, down 50.9 percent from the 3,606 units they sold in March 2006, according to real estate research firm SalesTraq.”
“Southern Nevada’s housing slump and the scarcity of industrial land has forced Las Vegas’ eighth-largest manufacturer, Merillat Industries, to close its cabinet plant, costing 330 workers their jobs.”
“The closing was caused by the slowdown in new home construction and better prospects at a new plant in New Mexico, said Larry Wilson, director of marketing.”
“Sales of new homes were down 44 percent in April compared to April 2006, according to the Southern Nevada Home Builders Association.”
“‘Everyone in the industry is hurting - everyone,’ said Monica Caruso, spokeswoman for the Home Builders Association. ‘There are layoffs and tremendous cuts in revenue. This is a very tough time in the homebuilding industry, and it’s going to trickle down to other segments.’”
The Gazette Journal from Nevada. “The foreclosure rate in Washoe County remained dramatically higher from a year ago, according to a report released this week.”
“In Washoe County, 277 homes entered some stage of foreclosure in April, according to RealtyTrac. That’s up from just 41 in April 2006, according to the report.”
“Washoe’s rate is better than the average in Nevada, which boasted the highest foreclosure rate in the nation for the fourth consecutive month. Las Vegas had the fifth-highest rate of all metropolitan areas in the country.”
“Washoe’s western neighbors in California, Stockton, Vallejo-Fairfield, Modesto, Sacramento and Merced, joined Vegas in the Top 10 highest rates.”
‘Newland Communities, the San Diego-based owner of Estrella in Goodyear, has purchased about 2,700 more acres in the master-planned development for $62 million. This is the third purchase Newland Communities has made since taking over the land in the Sonoran Desert Valley in 2005, according to Greg Bielli, president of the developer’s mountain region.’
‘At that time, Newland Communities bought 3,750 acres of the 20,000-acre housing development for $250 million.’
They better hurry. 200,000 people are moving to Southern California every week.
This land is on the west edge of Phoenix Metro.
Phoenix is just a far suburb of L.A. — the OE (”outland empire”).
“Washoe’s western neighbors in California, Stockton, Vallejo-Fairfield, Modesto, Sacramento and Merced, joined Vegas in the Top 10 highest rates.”
I live Valencia, I always like to quote my western neighbor, Maui, when comparing my local market.
“has to sell [in Gilbert AZ] because of a divorce” …
She should advertise on-line for a new husband. That might be a lot quicker than selling the house.
WOW she really thinks Long Term………LOL
————————
“Hennecke bought her home in the Higley section of Gilbert with her husband in November,
Maybe the $85K is her half, if it’s $170K then maybe she can be hopeful.
Nobody’s eating Gilbert’s Mistakes…
“The Valley’s real estate market has 20-25 percent more inventory than it needs, said Jo Ann Webley, a real estate agent working in Gilbert.”
Beware out washouts along the road to Washoe…
“In Washoe County, 277 homes entered some stage of foreclosure in April, according to RealtyTrac. That’s up from just 41 in April 2006, according to the report.”
Investment advice a 5 year old could tell you…
From Rygel XVI, in the nether reaches of the universe.
“‘We think real estate prices will move sideways or slightly lower for several years,’ said Thomas Higgins, of Los Angeles investment firm Payden & Rygel.”
Somebody didn’t tell them there’s lots of new land, all over Arizona…
No need to overpay~
Whoops, I see you did.
Your bad.
‘Newland Communities, the San Diego-based owner of Estrella in Goodyear, has purchased about 2,700 more acres in the master-planned development for $62 million. This is the third purchase Newland Communities has made since taking over the land in the Sonoran Desert Valley in 2005, according to Greg Bielli, president of the developer’s mountain region.’
I want to have a “get together” next month at my house in Laguna Niguel. Anyone that wants an invite, please email me at melodyoflove@gmail.com. I will provide wine, beer, appetizers, pool table, great music (low so we can talk) and a few other goodies. It would probably be on a Saturday (early evening). If you drink too much, I have lots of room. (Ben, you can have the guest room) Maybe we can have Lansner stop by.
Looking forward to meeting with you Let me know what ya think.
Melody
I used to live at 30522 North Hampton Rd - right above the library. It was a wonderful little area, but the homeowners assoc was a monster.
Melody — that’s very nice of you. Barring a coincidental visit to California, I can’t make it, but hope it’s a great party.
“That implies more cooling off ahead so that incomes can catch up a bit to home prices.”
Why is it always unthinkable that prices might drop to meet incomes ? Has anyone had yearly 20% increases in income ?
I have not seen an increase in three years at all. Way too much downward pressure from offshoring in my line of work.
incomes can catch up a bit to home prices
Incomes would need to triple in order to “catch up a bit to home prices.” I suppose this is possible, in the same way that it’s possible for my turds to sprout wings and fly to heaven.
“in the same way that it’s possible for my turds to sprout wings and fly to heaven…”
this is completely possible as imploder well knows….
you obviously aren’t eating enough mexican food…
San Onofre mexican food
When I got caught in the tech bubble of 2001, I took a 10% cut. Just a couple months ago, I finally got my salary back to where I was 6 years ago. 6 years to get back the 10% cut while inflation ate away at 3% or more a year…
Yeah, salaries are going to catch up to prices… in 30 years!!!
I wonder what salaries in the 55 to 75 k range have done over the last ten years- i bet not much
Uhm flat… they went up, down or stayed the same. If they increased to 76k, then they’d move out into the next range !
My question for you would be what occupation are you looking at?
Mine is semiconductors and it has increased enough to be comfortable with it. I’ll not discuss absolute % as I feel I am underpayed compares with recent experienced hirees!
Where I live (Houston), the money being made is with enery companies who are playing catch up in salaries for engineers (petrolium/mech/chem) as they underinvested in commodity down turn. From some people I know in ‘oil’, there is significant poaching going on. Not only that but they are heading to an ‘experiencedboomeremployee-retirement’ bubble.
If you want to switch occupations, enery industry is your opportunity. I’d struggle to see how they offload this one to India.
Crap lifestyle of working in energy companies is ironically something they fought against in getting fresh graduates into their industry. (Recent grads viewed cushy jobs such as ‘RE always goes up’ jobs instead of hard work like engineering!!)
Bwahh
That is my range. $75K in 2000. $68K in 2002. $75K in 2007.
“‘We think real estate prices will move sideways or slightly lower for several years,’ said Thomas Higgins, of Los Angeles investment firm Payden & Rygel.”
By “move sideways” Mr Higgins means stay the same, move lower or Increase? I am not sure what “sideways” means in a financial transaction. And - of course if they do fall, “only slightly lower”. No need to put off buying that dream house any longer.
Anyone buying this still?
It’s a new real-estate term to make everyone feel good that the prices of their home aren’t going down. They are going sideways.
Going UP is GREAT, going DOWN is BAD, going sideways means “WE’RE OK”.
Perhaps a little visualization is needed here. Picture a tight mountain road. Just to the side is a cliff dropping hundreds of feet. You took a turn too fast, and your car is “going sideways”. OOPS!
As any Looney Tunes aficianado knows, Wile-E-Coyote can keep “going sideways” in that scenario until he looks down…
Well, in the movie “Sideways”, the word means “falling down drunk, flat on your face”!
Better Buy NOW!…They aren’t making anymore Commission Checks “
“‘While the construction industry makes up 11 percent of Nevada’s workforce, it accounts for 25 percent of unemployment claims filed .There is clearly a disproportionate number of workers in the construction sector becoming unemployed.
- If 25% of the unemployed are eligible construction workers - there must be at least 8 to 10 illegals that were uneligible for each one of them.
You mean expect American citizens to perform MANUAL labor? Are you crazy?!@
American citizens performed manual labor until about 15 years ago. I knew Roofers who were white, drywallers, carpet cleaners etc. I just got back from England a few weeks ago, and I have to tell you I saw (no really) a garbage truck with (seriously!) two white English guys in it. Down the street, another English guy was painting a house and two came to my folks house to wash the windows while I was there!
MANY MANY Americans used to provide for their families with this kind of work. ALL of which (At least in So Cal) is not performed by Mexicans. They work at MUCH lower wages than Americans can afford to, live in small apartments packed with migrant workers etc..
So yeah, OK Americans will not do the same work AS CHEAPLY, but Americans have never had a problem with HARD work, but most of us thought that in First world countries we had better opportunities and would not have to live like this.
This brings us back to the bubble. Without incomes keeping up, and given our job markets are being undermined by cheap international labor, where does this leave us if our houses don’t keep going us so that we can keep borrowing to live?
“‘We think real estate prices will move sideways or slightly lower for several years,’ said Thomas Higgins, of Los Angeles investment firm Payden & Rygel.”
“He follows the ratio of median housing prices to median household income.”…..
It’s scandalous that the AZ Republic never mentioned this factor during the rah-rah boom days of real estate and is now drawing attention to the horse long after it has left the barn.
They just say we’re slightly above national average with 5.9 compared to 4.9. No mention that historic norm is about 3!
My thoughts exactly. Over time, Phoenix area housing has a 50% drop in it.
How much does CA skew the average when it is 10 - 11 and the number of households it has?
But a lot of buyers of high-rise condo units want to be in more urbanized cities with water views.’”
Does having to watch winos urinate on the sidewalk in front of your condo count as ‘water views’?
hehehe…that was good.
“Does having to watch winos urinate on the sidewalk in front of your condo count as ‘water views’?”
No… this is advertised as “Breath-taking Wanker Views”
Breath-taking due to the stench, no doubt.
http://tinyurl.com/28tlam
Buffett buys gold.
Well, not exactly. He bought the biggest gold jewelry manufacturer. So he will be selling gold to people. That’s where the real money is, selling the stuff. For dollars.
Any idea what the markup is on jewelry, oh enlightened one?
Jewelry is a special case - a way in fact to buy relatively cheap raw materials like Gold and Diamonds, and fashion them in such a way as to get far more than the component value. I believe the markup in jewelry is enormous. Does sparkle though doesn’t it?
Mr. Buffett has been in and out of gold and silver for years.
I am looking at some assets in South Africa next week, one of my competitors appears to be one of Mr. Buffet’s corporations. And I am not buying buildings.
Relative to other assets world wide South Africa is cheap. The problem is the Chinese have locked up African goodwill and need Africa’s enormous raw materials. It is very hard to compete with limited cash resources against a country that forgives 3.5B in debt.
seems like buffet is playing a few things here.
1. jewelry is going to be in more demand as the east grows.
2. he gets the monetary component of gold because many in the east also see it as more than jewelry- they see it as safety.
“That’s where the real money is, selling the stuff. For dollars.”
Well the guy that made the most off of the California Gold Rush was the guy that sold all the picks, shovels and some new sturdy pants he created, to the miners
… Levi Strauss
Yep and the new rush will not be into dollars.
“Money isn’t everything - gold is. F**k T-bills! F**k blue chip stocks! F**k junk bonds! We’ve got the real deal! Money will always be paper, but gold will always be GOLD!”
Darwin Mayflower
‘picks and shovels’ is right out of Jim Cramers don’t sell JDSU at the end of the bubble. I can assure you many picks and shovel business went under in the real gold rush as well.
Always is.
The most money in the dot-com bubble went to the stockbrokers & VC firms. The housing bubble — REIC & related financial entities. Higher energy prices — oil & gas companies. Hedge funds & LBOs — the managers & private equity firms.
“Where are the customer’s yachts?”
where are the blogger’s yachts?
in this down market, let’s reflect on some of the great advice we’ve read.
“Young potential first-time buyers are waiting, perhaps expecting prices to plummet, said RE/MAX Realtor Mike Lebecki.
“They’re very cautious, and I don’t think they’re thinking their caution through necessarily,” he said. “If all their friends are being cautious and not thinking it through, then they’re all doing the same thing, and they’re going to continue to … buy BMWs and pay rent.”
http://www.dailynews.com/santaclarita/ci_4498114
“People think a $550,000 condo will be $350,000 if they wait long enough. Not on your life. Construction costs are too high,”
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/story/6797557p-6665425c.html
“Because prices are going to keep going up, I don’t know if you know what sheetrock is going for right now but it’s $4 a sheet more than it was last year,” Craft added.
That’s why prices will likely continue to rise even as sales are expected to steadily slow down.
http://rdu.news14.com/content/your_news/raleigh/?AC=&ArID=90678&SecID=17
“If they’re upside down, they should do everything they can to stay in the house,” Niemoth said. “They are going to have to let this market run.”
Barring that, a seller could use a lease with option to buy to cut their losses.
“If you’re paying $2,000 a month for mortgage, taxes and insurance, but your market will only allow a lease option at $1,600, go ahead and lease-option for $1,600.
“That way, you’re only bleeding $400 a month.”
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061130/BUSINESS/611300774
“There can be few fields of human endeavor in which history counts for so little as in the world of finance. Past experience, to the extent that it is part of memory at all, is dimissed as the primative refuge of those who do not have the insight to appreciate the incredible wonders of the present.”
-John Kenneth Galbreith, A Short History of Financial Euphoria
A most excellent post.
’nuff said
“People think a $550,000 condo will be $350,000 if they wait long enough. Not on your life. Construction costs are too high,”
Construction costs are a small part of the overall price situation, because most housing inventory is used, not new.
Condos absolutely can and do depreciate, and have done so many times in the past, even during times when detached housing did not depreciate. In fact one would expect depreciation to be the norm, as condo ownership does not include any land, but only a portion of a (usually cheaply built) structure that falls apart over time, and a substantial risk of uncontrollable association/maintenance costs and potential destruction of value, e.g., if the HOA votes to disallow renters.
Totally, Condo are currently priced at far over the component value. And how did Construction costs go up 2 - 3 times since 2000? Labor costs have gone down if anything, materials are up 25% on some things, and down on stuff bought in from China. Where exactly are these increased costs, apart from pehaps the City fees which keep escalating like mad and the underlying value of the land, which can fluctuate a lot.
“In a sign of investors leaving the market, Applied Analysis suggested in its quarterly report that as many as 60 percent of all condo units closed in Las Vegas may enter the market during the next 36 months as resales.”
I see a less extreme version of this in my zip code in San Diego (92127). Out of 243 homes currently on the market, 215 of them (88 percent) are built since 1998 — housing bubble vintage construction. What kind of end user buys a home then turns around and sells it a couple of years later?
People that buy houses they can’t afford, using ARMS and other “exotic” loans, with $0 down, gambling with other people’s money hoping that they can sell for a huge profit in a few years.
“with an average asking price of $803,900 or $622 per square foot. ”
Why someone would pay $622/sqft for a condo? I do not get it !!
What is the logic?
Same reason people bought IPO tech stocks with negative P/E ratios, with insane stock prices back in 1999.
“Greator Fool” investing. Sure, it is insanely overpriced now, but look how much it had gone up. Even if it is foolish to buy, momuntum in the price indicates there will be a greater fool coming along that is willing to pay me even more.
“Why someone would pay $622/sqft for a condo? I do not get it !!
What is the logic?”
Because they can’t afford $1000/sqft.