Potential Buyers Expect Lower Sales Prices
The San Francisco Chronicle reports from California. “As other states adopt stricter regulations on subprime lending practices, California has not rushed to restrict an industry that spent $17.9 million in campaign contributions and on lobbying in the state during the past four years. Regulators and lawmakers across the nation have scrambled in recent months to stem the tide of foreclosures prompted by the crisis in the subprime lending market.”
“In the nine-county Bay Area, the number of loan default notices in the first quarter of this year was 6,730, up 160 percent from the same period a year ago. The number of foreclosures in the first three months of this year hit 1,493, up 839 percent from the first three months of last year.”
“Ed Smith Jr., VP of government affairs for the California Association of Mortgage Brokers, said the mortgage industry is among the most regulated in the nation and that lawmakers don’t need to get involved.”
“‘The market has self-corrected itself,’ he said. ‘Many of the mortgage products that were around six months ago are not around anymore.’”
“But the subprime crisis has some homeowners on the verge of losing their houses. Yvonne Mau, of Pinole, who pulled equity out of her home to build an extra room in 2003 for her elderly father, has since refinanced several times to cover her mortgage payments.”
“To make matters worse, Mau had to quit her job to take care of her father as well as her daughter, who has a learning disability.”
“Mau’s latest loan requires a $4,718 monthly payment for the first two years followed by payments of $6,097.37. She estimates her monthly family income at about $3,500. ‘I know we are at fault for stupidity, but these companies shouldn’t be doing loans that people can’t pay back,’ Mau said.”
“So far, 34 states and Washington, D.C., have adopted those recommendations, which consumer groups say don’t go far enough. California hasn’t adopted the guidelines yet.”
“The process can easily take at least six months, said Tim Lebas, a deputy commissioner for the Department of Corporations, which licenses lending companies. That explanation doesn’t sit well with at least one lawmaker.”
“‘It is simply inexcusable,’ said state Sen. Mike Machado, D-Linden (San Joaquin County), who chairs the Senate Banking Committee and has put the budgets of the real estate and corporations departments under review.”
“‘By threatening their budget, they’ve become more responsive, and we are asking them to adopt these (as) emergency regulations,’ Machado said.”
From News 10. “Foreclosure activity in the first quarter of 2007 set a record in Sacramento County. Sagging home values and adjusting mortgages are largely blamed for the 3,077 notices of default sent to Sacramento County homeowners in the first three months of the year.”
“And nowhere is the wave of foreclosure activity more dramatic than in 95832.”
“A News10 analysis of statistics and property records shows that in the first three months of 2007, more than two percent of the homeowners in zip code 95832 defaulted on their mortgages. At 22 defaults per 1,000 homes, 95832 may lead the state in foreclosure activity for the first quarter of 2007.”
“One third of the 57 homes in default in the first quarter of 2007 are in a subdivision called ‘The Meadows.’ It’s hard to find a block on a street in the Meadows without a foreclosure. Real estate signs litter the neighborhoods.”
“‘They are people who were put in bad situations, put in bad loans,’ said Holly Hisel, a foreclosure specialist with Coldwell Banker. ‘I think that’s where the majority of these are coming from.’”
“Of 23 houses on Richfield Way, five went into default in just the first three months of this year. ‘It seems like I post (an auction listing) every other day on Richfield,’ said auctioneer Bryan Moulton.”
“At a recent courthouse auction, a five-bedroom, four-bathroom 3,500 square foot house on Richfield Way that sold in July 2005 for $526,000 was offered by the bank for $295,000. There were no takers.”
“Jacqueline Hippard spoke to News10 on the front porch of her home on Expedition Way that was just days away from a foreclosure auction. Hippard and her husband Jeffrey said they paid $10,000 in late 2005 on a lease-purchase option, but the owner of the house stopped making payments to the lender.”
“The Hippards have hired a lawyer and are fighting the bank to maintain possession. Jacqueline Hippard admits it’s a longshot.”
The North County Times. “Sales of apartment complexes throughout San Diego County declined by 11 percent during the first quarter of this year over last year,, according to a report.”
“George Carlson, apartment specialist with Burnham, attributed the slowdown to buyers waiting for prices to fall.”
“‘Potential buyers recognize the market has softened and expect lower sales prices,’ he said in a statement. However, he added, sellers are reluctant to lower asking prices.”
“Carlson predicted that the market will normalize, saying that the ‘record-high prices that coincided with the condominium conversion frenzy are gone for the near future.’ Investors who might have put their money into selling condos are now looking at rental income, he said.”
The Mercury News. “With stratospheric housing prices pushing an unprecedented flow of college graduates out of the state, a prominent think tank says California faces a worrisome shortage in future decades: A lack of highly skilled workers to buttress the state’s quality of life.”
“Much of the worry is prompted by the new exodus of college graduates. Historically, college graduates have flocked to California from elsewhere in the United States. But according to PPIC’s analysis of Census data, since 2000, more college graduates have been leaving California for other states than are arriving.”
“‘It’s safe to say that certainly we haven’t seen this kind of flow out of the state in the past,’ said Hans Johnson, a PPIC demographer who co-authored the report. ‘Probably what’s happening now is unique in California’s history.’”
‘At 22 defaults per 1,000 homes, 95832 may lead the state in foreclosure activity for the first quarter of 2007.’
I think that’s as high as I have ever heard about. In the North Carolina neighborhoods that got slammed a few years ago, the ration was around 1 in 150.
22 defaults per 1,000 = 1 in 45…
Holy $hit. How is that even possible? Prices should already be down 50%.
Not yet. We get drops then the market goes sticky with no sales. I still see people asking for 2.5 to 3x their 00 or 01′ purchase price. Lots of folks have suggested that there is a huge foreclosure inventory that hasn’t hit yet.
‘I know we are at fault for stupidity, but these companies shouldn’t be doing loans that people can’t pay back,’ Mau said.”
This about sums up this whole mess.What a bunch of ignorant folks got loans.What has happened to this country?
The banks can’t let them go because they would then need to adjust the value of REO on their balance sheet.
As an example, Countrywide has 25M in REO inventory in the city of San Diego alone. If they adjust that line item to true value, or start selling them at market prices it would shatter their earnings, not to mention their stock price.
They are holding out in the hopes of resumed appreciation or at least until they’ve sold all their stock.
Not sure about the rest of the state but people in Sac apparently can’t handle weilding a ball point pen.
Dude,
Nothing is moving around here as far as resale goes. How long can they tread water before the regulators step in?
The regulators wont step in until they’ve admitted to lower valuations. They wont admit to lower valuations until they run out of auditors who refuse to cook the books, vis a vis Fremont and others.
“They are holding out in the hopes of resumed appreciation or at least until they’ve sold all their stock.”
It is possible the ’subprime is contained’ message has many housing inventory bagholders watching and waiting to see what kind of cargo drops might come their way out of Washington before they have to sell.
“What a bunch of ignorant folks got loans.What has happened to this country?”
The welfare state. Generations ago, these people would have starved to death (and/or never been born) before they lived long enought to f%ck things up for everyone else.
“The welfare state.”
Yep. It’s all those welfare moms buying CDOs, appraising houses fraudulently and running banks like chimps on meth. Let’s blame Iraq and bird flu on welfare moms, too, while we’re at it.
AKRon - I think you completely misunderstood the comment by crisrose.
The “welfare state” is not about poor mothers that need help to feed their children. Nobody would argue that they should starve, and that kind of welfare is a necessary and correct temporary solution.
What the “welfare state” is about is multiple generations of completely dependent, helpless people that have lost all ability to think, plan or care for themselves. They expect the government or some other entity that they perceive as their natural superior to make all the important decisions, ration all the valuable assets, and prevent them from ever making any mistakes - essentially doing all the thinking and living for them. You saw it in New Orleans when tens of thousands waited for the goverment to save them, which of course the government failed to do.
This woman, Mau, is essentially saying “Look, I know I did the wrong thing, but it was the govenrment’s or bank’s job to prevent me from doing it. I have no personal ability to regulate my own behavior, and I expect that someone else will take that responsibility from me from now on. Please save me from myself, I can’t say no.”
A child’s mind in an adult body.
yea, some little kid at the dmv sneezed a big snotter on me a while back…I think he got me sick for a week… i bet he was a welfare punk…
probably planned it
LOL wtf(?)
Welfare state example hardly. At least she is taking care of her father and not dumping him in a resthome for Medicare to pick up the tab. $3500 per month is not a lot to live on in the Bay Area. In financial desperation she gambled and lost…her home. Stop the sanctimony and give her a break.
welfare state? is this the first financial mania ever or did I miss something?
if you want to talk about welfare, talk about the special privilege that banks and wall street get. end fractional reserve lending and go a hard money standard and then talk get back to us.
What the “welfare state” is about is multiple generations of completely dependent, helpless people that have lost all ability to think, plan or care for themselves
Just one little problem with your argument. The US, as is well known, has the weakest social welfare programs of any Western country. Yet it has, to put it bluntly, the dumbest population. Germany, for example, has much stronger social programs, yet Germans have much less debt and more sense of personal responsibility.
It’s not the “welfare state”, it’s the “I want it now without working for it” entitlement mentality that has nothing to do with the US’s modest social programs like SS and Medicare. Perhaps it has more to do with the media’s insistence that if you don’t live like Paris Hilton there’s something wrong with you. And I think it has a lot to do with the mass aversion to rational thinking that seems to have gripped US society, which is being promoted by the right, not the left.
Remember, JFK said “Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country”.
“I want it now without working for it”
That should replace “E Pluribus Unum” as the motto on our money.
“yea, some little kid at the dmv sneezed a big snotter on me a while back…I think he got me sick for a week… i bet he was a welfare punk…”
“probably planned it”
No accident, imploder. I paid him $5.00 to blow the loogie on you.
I refuse to believe that these people don’t know that $6000 is more than their income of $3500. They simply plead ignorance because if you’re born stupid you can’t help it, but if you ruin your financial future gambling in real estate it has an attached stigma of moral depravity (greed).
Well, as for modest social programs, can I pose this question?
If she quit her job, where is she getting the $3,500 per month from? Let’s focus on her stupidity for a moment. Hmm, she kept refinancing to make her mortgage payment. There’s a clue that she couldn’t make it even when she did work. And what the hell, if she couldn’t afford the mortgage when she worked, it probably made it very easy to say, “I quit”, when she had no business doing so. Yes, it is honorable to take care of your own parents, but when you try to save them, whilst putting yourself in a dire situation, you have really screwed two people, or more, rather than letting the parent get taken care of by Medicare. So, now instead of having one on a social care program, we now have parent (1), daughter (2), and possible child (3). Sounds like a great plan to me. Furthermore, she takes no responsibility in her actions, by blaming the boogey man bank for putting her in a loan that she couldn’t afford. She KNEW she couldn’t afford it, and like it’s already been said, she couldn’t say no. F her. Not realizing that she is creating greater socail problems by “doing the right thing” is like saying that subprime is contained. I can’t believe what I’m hearing from you normally rational thinkers.
“‘The market has self-corrected itself,’ he said. ‘Many of the mortgage products that were around six months ago are not around anymore.’”
Correction: Many of the mortgage lenders who would have offered such products that were around six months ago are not around anymore.
http://ml-implode.com/
‘The market has self-corrected itself,’…
from the department of redundancy department.
LOL
That’s pretty funny…
“Let me permit myself … to introduce myself.”
http://centralcoasthousingbubble.blogspot.com/
… self corrected itself? My god it’s Deja Vu all over again!
This is the Meadowview area… the prices they want for those new homes are outrageous. Unaware buyers probably didn’t know what area they were getting into… or perhaps they did and thought they could sell for more later. Crazy!
The area around Meadowview is like Richmond (SF Bay).
We have gang activity migrating out of these neighborhoods and into the better areas. People are getting hit by stray bullets. We even had an Amtrak train conductor almost get beaten to death by the thuglet youth in West Sacramento.
Happening here in Florida, too, Gwynster. Nine year old boy in Bradenton just got snuffed the other day by a stray bullet from a Sur 13 gangbanger. Caught in the crossfire. Sleep old Bradenton, who woulda thunk it?
Isn’t south sacramento home of all the gangbangers?I remember working down in that area.There are hookers strutting around all the time.Martin luther king blvd. is a scary place.
South Sac used to be separate from Elk Grove and now it’s all starting to blend together. What’s really funny is that they are still building out that way and pushing up into RC.
I forgot who the comedian was who said it, but it seems to be true - no matter what US city you’re in, if you’re on MLK Blvd. you’re in a bad neighborhood. Certainly holds true for LA (MLK off the 110 fwy south of downtown LA is gangland; well, one of many gangland areas in LA).
Poor MLK. He deserved better.
No shit. That sucks.
Agreed.
OMG rofl that is so wrong and so funny at the same time
opps meant the Chris Rock quote
‘If a friend calls you on the telephone and says they’re lost on Martin Luther King Boulevard and they want to know what they should do, the best response is ‘Run!’” –Chris Rock
It was Chris Rock.
I once had a black ex co-worker explain to me that any MLK blvd in any city is a bad part of town, people should always avoid these locations.
Got 10% down?
True in Chicago. And the EXTREMELY BIG coincidence is that I was listening to that Chris Rock album about an hour before I drove across that street (lost on a road trip). I sped away as fast as possible.
“…California faces a worrisome shortage in future decades: A lack of highly skilled workers to buttress the state’s quality of life.”
Nothing a little immigration reform can’t fix, right?
Cali looks to be on its way to being its own third-world country.
“…on its way…”
LOL… on it’s way??? You haven’t been here lately have you? If you go to certain parts of Los Angeles, you will start checking your pockets for a passport or wondering at what point in your travels did you cross the border.
Already there buddy already there…
you mean Cali looks like Mexico, a “whole other country”?
75% of LA actually is Mexico City but with more gang killings. You don’t have to learn a word of English to get around.
I’m actually pro-immigration and love the fact that our country is a melting pot of cultures. And besides whos going to pay 15-30% in Social Security taxes to support our boomers (”please illegal pay your $5,000 fine and start paying into SS”) I don’t think my kids will. They’ll probably go to college and then travel around the world working here and there and living minimally while flipping the bird to the system and the boomers.
But I had to laugh at an investment conference when a speaker from Latin America said “the best thing about LA is that it’s so close to the United States!”
LA as in Latin America?
LOL!!
Why do people confuse illegal Mexicans with ALL other immigrants in this country. There is no “melting pot” — see the post. LA is a little Mexico, no melting of cultures at all (the money even goes back to Mexico). This country is supposed to allow immigrants from all nations via quotas (set by Ted Kennedy). Now one country is hogging all the slots, illegally. So pro-immigrant, isn’t necessarily pro-illegal Mexicans.
“75% of LA actually is Mexico City but with more gang killings. You don’t have to learn a word of English to get around”
LA may already be pretty much like Tijuana, Guadalajara or even Guatemala city. Have been through these cities and 90% of LA is no different. LA does not quite have the extreme impoverished Colonia hillside wretched impoverished shantytowns filled with dirt poor villagers but in all other respects Much of LA City has a striking resemblence to a typical Large Mexican City, and may even be worse in some ways. At least your typical Mexican city/town /village has some interesting ancient Historical Churches, Plazas, and ruins. LA does not even have one major historical District except for tiny Oliveras street, which is a joke.
In a nutshell allowing 20-30 miilion mostly Poor unskilled Hispanic illegals to flood across our borders last 25-30 yrs has transformed LA/Cal for the worst. To provide all the negatives would require a book but i will give just one example:
A large swath of Central/South LA from the 405 east to the 605 and from the 10 fwy south to the 91 is virtually 100% spanish speaking and the entire area is one gigantic grimy poverty region. Large parts of SCentral astride the 110/710/105 fwys
are worse than Tijuana, with entire neighborhhods strewn with garbage, broken discarded furniture, bedding,trash, tosses auto fluids, ect. I have always maintained that these areas are so environmentally degraded that some of the hoods would quality as Superfund EPA sites.
LA City, LA Times, LA Civic leaders, hell the State of CAlifornia, are so PC and pro-illegal immigrant that they allow the extreme degredation of a large portion of LA, or look the other way.
Builders Call for Major Overhaul of Immigration Bill
http://tinyurl.com/2catfu
“impoverished Colonia hillside wretched impoverished shantytowns”
never understood why the poorest parts of latin america are almost always above on the hill… I mean sh#t rolls DOWN hill right? You’d think the rich would have figured that out after a while..
Simple. Water does not flow UP hill. There is little if any prospect of decent services in the hills, and to get wate Up there is a massive investment in Pumps, Traps, Pipes, etc… Therefore the Rich people live in the flats. Another reason is that when it rains, the sides of the hills crumble, and take with them large sections of these shanty towns.
I once took the wrong LA off-ramp and ended up in Guadalajara. Everything but the painted donkeys.
Ex NV, this is the tip of the iceberg.
Almost everyone I know is talking about moving out of CA.
We have faculty here that coach their grad students to leave and begin research projects at universities where there is less restriction, lower indirect rates, and lower cost of living. Staff are spending their days scanning the employment sections of other univ job pages.
Then there is the big adjustment coming along with the young brain drain - the boomer retirements.
Not moving to Oregon, I hope. No one here likes paying taxes, so our higher-ed system is falling apart (literally). I tell Oregon parents to send their kids to CA for a year, to establish residency, then go to UC or the State system.
LOL I work for UC. It’s falling apart.
MacAttack speaks the truth.
Our university faculty are among the poorest paid in the national and Southern Oregon University in Ashland has cut 10% of their staff this year. This is a long-term story. The latest chapter is our libraries and social services. Here in Jackson County, OR our 15 county libraries closed last month because of a loss of federal welfare for “timber counties”, but we voted down our second county property tax levy. Looks like they will be closed for the forseeable future.
Yeah, I’m sure there isn’t any “fat” to cut. They always go for the most visible and heartwrenching cuts. Libraries and poor folks, figures. What a bunch of pricks we collectively have running our gov’t branches. Pull up the ladder, I’m aboard.
Interesting, MacAttack. My sisters’ children from Piedmont, CA are attending University of Oregon, as are many of their friends. I thought it was interesting that parents are willing to pay three times the tuition and fees to send their kids to an Oregon school, and assumed that Oregon must have a superior educational system. Well, at least they’re getting some extra money from California.
I would say that (good schools) applies to Washington. They have the economy and they don’t mind paying for things that matter. In Oregon, our educational system and economy are second rate, and we are making all the decisions to ensure it stays that way.
I remember reading a few years ago about salary compression at Oregon. Seems that funds were so thin that raises had been miniscule for quite a while. Yet, Oregon couldn’t hire new faculty (right out of grad school) without offering a competitive salary. The end result was that new faculty right out of post-doc or grad school were getting paid more than some full professors with 20+ years experience.
Sure,
But at least we don’t have that pesky sales tax!
Yet, Oregon couldn’t hire new faculty (right out of grad school) without offering a competitive salary.
Weird, last time I was involved with academia, there were far more Ph.D’s being minted (in every field) than jobs to absorb them, and if you weren’t a superstar you would be grateful to land a tenure track job at a third-rate school in Oklahoma, the alternative being an interminable series of short-term contract gigs, also in places like Oklahoma.
I took my master’s and ran.
Yep, academia is cut-throat, and anyone thinking of going that route should have a backup plan. However, for those tenure-track positions that are open, research universities are looking for young stars. Hence, the salary compression at Oregon.
Gwynster, you have it right, the loss of young educated families and the boomer retirements are going to make for some very interesting years ahead.
Maybe CA will have that 30% drop in price afterall!!
hmmm, maybe we should continue to rent for a few more years. I just don’t want to be “priced out forever” like realtors tell you all the time.
It might be possible to be “priced out forever” from small expensive boutique towns like Santa Barbara or San Francisco or Beverly Hills, but priced out of California? Only if you earn substantially below the California median wage and lack the means or desire to correct the situation, in which case you would probably be much better off moving to another state.
Yes, there are times like now when almost everyone is priced out temporarily, but the great news is that such times are without fail followed a few years later by excellent buying opportunities.
leave the faculty and get a real job ?
not likely
We are firming up plans to get out, so are at least 3 other people I work with directly (out of a team of 5). In my case we are doing the following - people are free to leave California and work from home wherever they go. We have been working together for over a year. I know I can trust these people to pull their weight even if I don’t watch them. I have been here for most of the last 23 years, it has had it’s ups and downs, but I honestly feel the time is right to bail.
Consider fleeing within the Golden State, but far away from the maddening crowd…
Tucked away as far north and east as a town will take you, is the Surprise Valley and Cedarville and vicinity.
Maybe 1,500 people in 60 square miles and utterly ignored by the Korporate Klingons, it’s like stepping back in time, old buildings, slow, real slow.
The nearby Warner Mountains are pretty nice and wildlife
abounds. (I watched a Eagle powerdive into a lake and fly out a few seconds later with a fish in it’s mouth)
I think a house will run you in the low 100’s.
Did I tell you it was slow?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedarville,_California
Good for you! I’m a big believer in voting with your feet.
The more I travel for work, the less attractive CA looks.
I’ve been networking with other university’s sponsored programs departments. We want out too. What sucks is that everytime we get F’d up and about to just head out, UC gives my DH or I a promotion.
Here is the deal. Why are we allowing others to take over our state. 1 out 4 californians are foreign born, the other 1/4 are the children of the foreign born. We need to tell our gov’t to cut immigration for a while and to enforce the laws. Building a fence won’t help unless your enforcing the laws. Unfortunately, the media paints you as a racist if you dislike all the immigration. 60% of the UC students are now immigrants or children of immigrants. All Americans do is pay the taxes for our immigrants.
We pulled up stakes and left CA in 2005, moved to AK. I’m in my late 50s, a native Californian, and leaving was wrenching for me. Nevertheless it was the right choice for us. We brought our 2 school-age sons with us (yes, I’m a codger-Dad). Both kids are honor students. I don’t know where they will go to college or eventually settle, but CA is looking less likely as time passes.
The illegals in this country are fighting against the immigration bill because it puts a premium on skill vs family ties. That’s a no-brainer. Does it look like we really want everyone to come into the country not speaking english, no education or someone who can actually start a company and generate jobs?
That would be nice, however, the power elite love having their cheap labor with the average taxpayer picking up the cost. I love it, instead of attracting the best and brightest from around the world, we are taking in the poorest and least educated. Sounds like a recipe for success doesn’t it!
I have said many times that young mobile professionals will leave this state and will not put themselves into a life of serfdom just for the “great weather”. My wife and I are both graduate level professionals and we could move anywhere in the country and make nearly the same pay. We are still here for now because we rent and we have a good setup with friends and family. However, her parents sold their home last year in South Orange county and are moving next year for Colorado (their renting now too). We may follow them next year. Another highly educated, well paid 150K+ family leaving the state, while 20 more
hmmmm. the last part got truncated
We leave with our $150K+ household income to be replaced with 20 more less thank $25K a year family and net tax consumers take our place.
Actually Mr. Metro, those 20 more less than $25K a year families will most likely follow you to Colorado (or wherever it is you will go.) The number of illegals moving to Colorado, Utah, the Northeast, etc. has been exploding over the past 10 years. So good luck to you there…
Colorado huh? Had a freind move to Denver several years ago. Saw him the very next summer back in Cali. Said he never felt cold like that in his life.
Good Luck
Well, actually, yes, illegals are going to Colorado and everywhere else, BUT…. there are still far far less than in CA or any other border state, AZ, NM, and TX are FAR FAR worse. As far as the cold goes, eh, maybe it would be bad, maybe it wouldn’t. I have been there during winters as we have extended family there, not nearly as nice as South Orange county, but tolerable.
I love Orange County, I just don’t want to be part of an ever shrinking minority of tax payers while millions of tax consumers overwhelm every school, hospital, and every other social service while leaving me with the bill.
Hispanic families are moving away from the gateway states and into the interior of the nation in very significant numbers at least since 2001. Working in the meat packing industry is a big draw.
Grew up in Villa Park, left OC in 86′ and never looked back. I dread going there to visit relatives now.
Colorado weather isn’t that bad. I golfed and snow skied on the same day this year! CO is ground zero for immigration crackdowns this year. Swift Meatpacking in Greeley, etc. I’ve heard illegals are moving out of Colorado. However, I’ve heard this story for years, cost of living here is cheaper yes, BUT employers know who you are and where you are from and WILL pay you less. I have been in the headhunting game for years and it is discussed in board rooms and HR departments, just not openly. You want cost of living to salary, move to Dallas or Atlanta. This is a generalization of course, but “make the same anywhere” is no certainty. Unless you can throw one better than John Elway.
Gwynster, true, but the gateway states are part of some very racist Chicano nationalism myth known as Atzlan. They may move to other parts of the country, but AZ, NM, CA, TX, parts of NV and southern CO are considered birthright by La Raza types but they’ll focus on the closest border areas. As the demographic shifts, it won’t be pleasant for non-hispanics when a poor and frustrated class outnumbers you and decides they want what is “theirs”. I believe in diversity, Asian, European, African, Latino, but I don’t belive that blanket Latinization is very diverse, and much of the odious Chicano nationalism is virulently racist and anti-semitic.
Try reading anything put out by MeCha or La Voz De Atzlan.
OCMetro
yep know all about the Atzlan movement. I was actually trying to point out that the interior states are experiencing the demographic shifts now that rocked OC in the 70s and 80s.
Yet it is the La Raza pigs that are always accusing others of racism.
I was recently at a multi ethnic concert, and I was shocked to hear some of the lyrics of one of the Zapatista anthems. The Spanish loosely translated to “the pure Mexican race will rule again, we will spill the blood of all the others.” I told my husband, “Hey, it might have a good beat, but I can’t clap for that song, it sounds like Hitler!”
yep. that’s why we left too.
Jobs paid the same elsewhere (actually way more), COL way cheaper. it was a no brainer. My house cost me 1/5th what the comparable in SF would have been, and my income is double.
we left and never looked back. We may return again in the distant future, IF cost of living becomes more reasonable.
but I have to say, except for the weather I really don’t miss SF or SD at all anymore.
I’ve ranted on this before, but this is what happens when “everybody is priced out forever!!!!”
hooray.
if the standard of living falls too far before housing prices can correct, then the weather alone won’t be enough to call people back. there is a point of no return.
Kind of like a club. It’s hot, then it’s not. Once it’s not, it’s hard to return to the top.
“Kind of like a club. It’s hot, then it’s not. Once it’s not, it’s hard to return to the top.”
That’s a damn good analogy as it takes into account the psychology shift.
Notmissingit: “said he never felt cold like that in his life”
at -30°C = -22°F sound travels so much further, airplanes are so much louder in the winter
Does well educated include spelling? Just asking.
This is a good example of the differences between perception and reality. The anti immigration hype is mostly driven by loathing for Mexicans. The reality is that there are a lot of immigrants from Europe and Asia and Africa that somehow don’t create the same scare. The Europeans in particular tend to go after high end business and tech jobs, so they are certainly not fighting that part of the immigration bill.
To connect this with housing as an issue it is interesting that Europeans frequently come to the US completely used to living in apartments of around 350-450 square feet, so in that and probably other ways as well they exert pressure on markets to move in directions that many Americans might not prefer.
Moleman, actually it is loathing for the corruption, poverty, and disease that comes with immigration from the south.
Diseases that were all but eradicated here in the US are making a comeback. We’d prefer a little less immigration of Tuburculosis, Rubella, Whooping cough that accompany “migration” from the south.
You know, Mexico has more area of great climate than most countries, more natural resources, more ariable land, very safe due to proximity to the US, and yet, it remains a third world hell hole because of corrupt leaders and an unwillingness to make changes at home, simply export the poverty to the US and scream racism if anyone disagrees with you.
I think I prefer Taipaei, and Tokyo to Tijuana
Fine post, OCMetro.
I just wanted to add Leprosy to your list.
~Misstrial
I remember someone from Intel needing to be screened for Hanson’s after an extended stay at an overseas plant. He literally had to go through spinal taps. He was a co worker of my ex.
I am tired of people always shouting “Racist” to anyone who want to discuss immigration issue and hold an anti-illegals immigration stance. I am all for legal immigration. The internet boom was in part caused by Indian founded 30% of all the internet companies.
Also, what is a Mexican, sounds racist to me, I think you may have an issue with the indigines, because I know mexico is highly stratified with people of Spanish European ancestery running everthing. Just take a look at Mexican television, mostly white. Vicente FOX, is half Irish.
Actually most Latin countries are ruled by a white elite, they just want the indigines out since they are a net drain on the country.
See, when you have expensive social welfare programs, it is very costly to continue to import poverty. Most illegals consume about $20,000 a year more than they contribue in taxes. How is that good for anyone but them? Certainly not for our own poor here in this country since they are the ones who are disproportionately affected while faux compassionates like to scream racism, while driving down the living conditions of our poor mostly minority communities.
That’s right, Metro, there’s a certain hysteria from the Mexican government regarding shoving their undesirables over the border as fast and furiously as they can. Clearly they don’t want these people, it is kind of obvious. That’s why they’re working so hard opening more consulates here. Similar to Castro emptying his prisons and mental institutions during the Mariel boatlift, but on a much, much larger scale. I was talking to one of the long time local Mexican American folks in town, we were discussing the high incidence of car accidents in the area due to a combination of out-of-it retired people who shouldn’t have a license and illegals who shouldn’t be driving on the road. I mentioned maybe some of the signs should be in Spanish as well as English and her response was that it wouldn’t do any good, half the illegals in the area don’t even speak Spanish, let alone read it. They speak indigenous tribal languages.
you got links to support these numbers? immigrants cannot receive govt aid without proof of proper status in this country. perhaps you are referring to services like hospitals & police in your $20K figure?
Illegal immigrants cost the state of Texas $3.5 billion a year.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4440332.html
This number does not take into account the cost of education for those illegal aliens under 16 since the constitution of Texas requires free education for all children.[as an FYI 37 illegals give birth in Parkland Hospital in Dallas every day]
“…. immigrants cannot receive govt aid without proof of proper status in this country.”
Not true at all. For example: California law requires that an emergency room cannot even ask if a patient is insured or not nor can the hospital staff inquire about one’s citizenship status. Neither can public schools require proof of legal residency for admission. All they can ask is that a parent/legal guardian provide utility bill(s) and a birth certificate (which could be from anywhere).
I worked for a law group that provides legal assistance to California residents. We were forbidden to ask for citizenship status.
~Misstrial
The utilities bills are just to determine which school they’ll be going to.
On a socio-economic research project I was on, we had to tread really lightly since we were collecting data on hispanic origin families and we could not ask a variety of questions including SS numbers that UC required for payment. In that case, federal policy trumped State.
Damn Word press ate my post. In my case, we had federal policy trump state. State wanted SS# to track research payments and fed’s said no way or kiss funding goodbye. We could even get close to any questions regarding residency.
i know that free education is available to all, but the fact is immigrants cannot apply for direct aid from federal govt programs (food stamps, medicaid) without proper documentation of status
as to skrook’s article it says:
“Then-Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn recently issued a report saying illegal immigrants are worth at least $17.7 billion to the state’s economy. She said the taxes they pay cover the cost of state services, but she also said they are a drain of about $929 million on local governments, mostly because of the costs associated with indigent health care.
Berman said he thinks Strayhorn’s report seriously underestimates the cost of illegal immigrants to the state. Citing research by the conservative Lone Star Foundation, Berman said illegal immigrants cost the state $3.5 billion a year.”
so the net benefit-cost to the economy depends on whose (likely biased) study you want to believe. illegal immigrants are a large part of the economy and keep many prices of goods and services low, so those economic benefits have to be couter-balanced with the financial costs. not an easy task which is why there is so much disagreement on it. i would just like to see people back up their views on immigration with sound data and references as strongly as they do about the housing market. otherwise its political opinion and doesnt belong here, just my opinion.
visit a hospital due to EMTALA is all free baby
While the parents cannot receive aid because of their legal status their children however are citizens and qualify for AFDC, Food Stamps, MediCal, etc.
BTW The employees at Children’s Hospital in San Diego refer to the hospital as Tijuana General.
“you got links to support these numbers? immigrants cannot receive govt aid without proof of proper status in this country. perhaps you are referring to services like hospitals & police in your $20K figure? ”
All an illegal has to do is go to MaArthur Park and get a phony green card and fake/stolen/Borrowed SS number and presto, Free Gov,t benefits. Millons did this back in the 80’s and 90’s.
They also are not eligible to work without proof Of eligibilty yet millions were able to work via phony green cards.
Many illegals work under the table so that they pay no taxes.
There was an epidemic of Auto accident/stolen SUV rings back in the 80,s-90,s committed by illegal alien criminal rings, which cost insurance companies billions of dollars, and raised insurance premiums for everyone else average 11%.
Hugh numbers of Illegal alien medically uninsured have caused at least 11 LA county trauma centers to close, and cost LA county 400 miilion in unreinbursed medical costs in 2004 which was payed by the taxpayers.
The costs to the CA court system, police, and prisons for policing, putting to trial and incarcerating the hugh illegal alien criminal/gang pupulation must run in the billions, maybe 10’s of billions yearly.
The LAUSD is spending billions of CA taxpayer money buying up LA properties thru emminent domain and constructing 20+ primary schools in Inner LA for half a million kids of illegals, who still have a 50% drop out rate coming from a culture which give scant regards for education. And Hispanic latinas get impregnated in their teens at higher rates than any other ethnic group and have their pregnancies and child care medical expenses 100% paid by the state thru Medical.
To Mithrander,
Do not cite phony stats put out by CA gov’t officials , who make their living having as many nanny state welfare dependents as possible thus perpetuating their existence. I have been on the ground dealing with the LA immgrant population for 30 years and know the extent of this problem. The pitiful amt they pay in social security taxes and sales tax is miniscule compared to their extracting free Gov’t Services(welfare,School, free emergency care, free police- ambulance services, EIC,ect,).
Plus many illegals operate in the black market underground economy trading, buying and selling stuff for cash, thus avoiding even paying the state franchise taxes.
What about all the billions of dollars in remittances sent back to Mexico that aren’t spent here?
peter m,
i guess you’re not really paying attention to my posts, i cited no figures, i am asking people to cite their own as opposed to just declaring their opinions as fact. where did i cite any statistics? the only quote i put up came as a reference from skrook’s article, which was about TEXAS, not CA.
i am not here to deny that illegal immigration poses financial costs, i just want people to channel their fervor into expressing their opinions with facts, just as we expect everyone to do regarding the housing market.
all of the economically straining activites you describe in your post like using stolen green cards, ssn#s, operating in a black market / cash market - are by no means reserved for illegal immigrants, just as the practice of massively over-leveraging oneself to purcahse RE at ungodly prices was not restricted to the low income, low educated, immigrant, etc.
i am not here to pick any fights, i would merely like to see the same energy put into facts and figures regarding the effects of illegal immigration as we see here on housing. if we cant achieve that, i dont understand why it is brought up here on a consistent basis.
“….i am not here to pick any fights, i would merely like to see the same energy put into facts and figures regarding the effects of illegal immigration as we see here on housing. if we cant achieve that, i dont understand why it is brought up here on a consistent basis.”
Actually, you and other visitors such as yourself pop-up Blog primarily by making absurd demands for “links” or other “factual” information.
Just do an internet search yourself.
All of the statistics that peter m, Gwynster, and others have posted has all been published many times before - even in pro-”migrant” newspapers like the Los Angeles Times.
Please stop wasting bandwidth by demanding the obvious.
~Misstrial
wow who knew that requesting actual data or “facts” as you put it was such a waste of time, i guess since all sides of this argument are so obvious there is no point discussing it at all right? or is it your opinion that this blog is merely for people to vent as opposed to sharing constructive information?
“The reality is that there are a lot of immigrants from Europe and Asia and Africa that somehow don’t create the same scare.”
Really? Talk to some of the folks who have to deal with the Somalian immigrants in their area.
Really??? Fear and loathing??? I suppose that’s why there is a 40% intermarriage rate between white & hispanics.*
*and I am one of them.
Click on this link. I, like any other American of whatever race, should be concerned when an elected official “comes out of the closet” on behalf of a foreign nation.
http://www.johnandkenshow.com/archives/2007/05/18/villaraigosa-mayday-pro
There is no “anti-immigrant hype”.
I would bet there are few on this board who do not welcome legal immigrants, who have complied with the rules and waited to be admitted legally.
I despise the “pro-illegals” strong-arm crowd –those who choose to condone criminality, who have contempt for law and order, contempt for the privileges that belong to American citizens living in a sovereign nation, who promote identity theft and the theft of taxpayer monies to pay for millions of Mexicans who are robbing lawful citizens of good and services they have neither the legal nor moral right to take.
I’ve never seen groups of Polish or Kenyan illegal aliens standing around on the street corners in Chandler, AZ. Why is that if according to you they are just like the Mexican illegals?
The reality is that there are a lot of immigrants from Europe and Asia and Africa that somehow don’t create the same scare. The Europeans in particular tend to go after high end business and tech jobs
And why might that be? Because they are legal immigrants who have to meet selection criteria, not just sneak across the border.
Don’t confuse legal with illegal immigration. It is perfectly rational to be in favor of the former and opposed to the latter.
What the US needs is a comprehensive legal immigration plan that meets society’s needs and brings in law-abiding future citizens, not the present mess that provides cheap labor for the rich and dumps the costs onto the middle class.
Nicely said. I agree completely.
I love Mexican culture, spicy food, warm people, hot babes, lurid cars,even mariachi. But the illegals who sneak in, break the law, and demand to be welcomed piss me off.
Go to the Polish neighborhoods of Chicago and you will find plenty of illegals from Poland. They tend not to be very well educated and some can not speak a word of english, but they are able to earn a living in blue collar skilled work such as construction, auto body repair, painting, etc… (Alot of what they do is RE renovation related.) The Polish illegals in Chicago are not shooting of guns and they are not destroying anybody’s lawns with their pick up trucks and they are not yanking window A/C units with a chain hooked to a truck. (This is how the Mexican illegals moved into Berwyn, they “forced” the people in that community out of their own homes. It got to the point where the police stopped responding to these calls.)
The Polish in Chicago are very “carefull” with who gets to rent in their neighborhoods. For example, when you answer an ad in the paper for a rental apt they will ask you about your surname. If you are not what they want in their neighborhood then they will ask you if you want a furnished or unfurnished apt. Whatever anwer you give them they will tell you “I’m sorry but we do not have an apt like that available.” (Been there.) Call it racism if you want, but they will simply not put up with other people’s garbage on the street and loud music/muffler/noise.
Also, many have commented about how LA now looks like Mexico. I have never been to LA, so I do not know first hand what LA looks like. But I was raised in NYC in the LES and I recently went back for my HS reunion and I can tell you that the graffiti in the LES is simply out of hand. This is especially true in the Chinatown area near the Brooklyn Bridge in Manhattan. Also, the “alphabet soup” area. (Aves A, B, C, D.) I remember there was some graffiti in NYC when I was growing up, but now I can hardly recognize the place anymore. I grew up lower income in the LES and my heart goes out to the decent lower income people who are trapped in these neighborhoods.
One last thing I noticed about NYC. NYC has gone with a different style of police patrolling. When ever there is a murder somewhere the police respond by flooding the area with cops and this very high visibility is said to have helped with the crime rates in NYC. When I went to my HS reunion I stayed at a relative’s apt in the LES. There was a murder in that area one evening, and the next evening the police did their “high visibility” response. They had about half a dozen cops all standing at one spot! No fanning out and patrolling, no walking, just standing there in one spot! Does this make any sense?
I enjoy watching the TCM channel and I am especially fond of old movies that feature the old NY, before it was destroyed by all of this graffity. These old movies give us a glimpse at what the old NYC and LA and other places looked like before private and public property was abused and defaced, and they show us that it was entirely possible to communicate in these big cities back then without having to say fu and stfu and bfd and so on…
Got 10% down?
Ever read about the GINI coefficient? It measures polarization of wealth and upward mobility. Legal, skilled immigrants expand the middle class; however illegal, unskilled immigrants add to the ranks of the poor and seriously undercut others ability to make a living.
“family ties”…
An excuse to bring over every elderly and disabled mexican and dump them on the social security system. If you can prove you’re diabled, you don’t need a work history. Legal immigrants love this scam too–promise to “support” endless armies of relatives, then just fail to do so. Let the taxpayer pick up the tab.
Family values…importing non-productive deadbeats.
“The illegals in this country are fighting against the immigration bill because it puts a premium on skill vs family ties. That’s a no-brainer. Does it look like we really want everyone to come into the country not speaking english, no education or someone who can actually start a company and generate jobs?”
That is about what has been happening last 25-30 yrs. Virtually the entire population of unskilled impoverished peasants from the backwards ranchera farms of Mexico/CA have been flooding into CA/US. These folks are so iliterate and uneduated that even after 20 yrs here in the US many of them stil cannot speak one word of english. And they are so unskilled and backwards that in times of recession or a down economy they put a hugh strain upon the welfare-social service system.
Even worse, many undocumented come here with plans to stay only temporaily before returning to their home countries,meanwhile abusing the social net and bringing down wages for the native born and permanent green carders. You can go into mexico and discover that 1/4 of the adult population have worked in the US at one time.
I actually favor bringing in more skilled educated immigrants from more advanced ‘westernized’ countries as China, india, Europe, Japan,ect. We need to stop further inflows from Latin america, except for the most educated and skilled.
You all better write your senators NOW. I did. There is a chance voter outcry can overrule the special interests that keep our borders open. The business community needs to break its addiction to cheap labor and the poverty and tax drain it creates. Bleeding hearts need to understand Mexico is not a model country, it is a cesspool.
“‘By threatening their budget, they’ve become more responsive, and we are asking them to adopt these (as) emergency regulations,’ Machado said.”
- Regulation # 1 - Loan amount can not exceed 3 times the yearly income of borrower
You go Machado. I have to say though that he’s an idiot if he thinks this will solve anyone’s problems. Imagine the near future when the lenders disappear due to these new regs. I feel an ice cold winter coming on….
“Jacqueline Hippard spoke to News10 on the front porch of her home on Expedition Way that was just days away from a foreclosure auction. Hippard and her husband Jeffrey said they paid $10,000 in late 2005 on a lease-purchase option, but the owner of the house stopped making payments to the lender.”
How does it go……a fool and his money…
Good point. I see these lease/purchase ads all the time and hadn’t thought about the seller/landlord defaulting. Whew, just in the nick of time.
The lease/ purchase options are really not that great IMO.They credit a small amount of your rent towards a down payment for the house I hear.This raises a great question; do they get the money back they accumulated towards a down payment if the landload breaches the contract?
The short answer is it depends. They could prove a breach of the agreement (the foreclosure and extinguishment of the lease/option is a breach of the agreement as it takes away their right to possession and right to purchase the property). The question, though, is could they prove damages? If their purchase option was out of the money (and stays out of the money during the option term), then have they really suffered any damages from the loss of their purchase option? They may or may not have suffered damages from the loss of their lease (costs to move, plus any differential in rent for a similar place - which may be more or less). So, they could prove all of the other elements of their case (existence of a contract, breach by the landlord, and performance or excuse of the contract by the tenant), but damages are also an element for a breach of contract case. This is where they may have problems in proving their case.
They may have damages based on the option being cancelled prior to the option term; i.e. if the option were for 5 years and $10,000 and they were into it for 1 year, then they might need to be refunded (damages) $8,000. A co-worker in law school is telling me that per Restatement of Contracts 86, there also might be a issue of unjust enrichment on the contract.
But this is why I agree with you WaitingOC and AZdude, in that these purchase/option deals are b.s., since in reality most people dont have the finances or legal backing to get their money back if this sort of situation happens.
How would that put a tenant in a bad position? I’m starting to see a lot of those signs too, and I always thought it would be nice to have an option to buy if prices returned to a sane level. Does a purchase option make you a guarantor of the owner’s mortgage?
Go easy on me. I concede ignorance.
The lease is junior to the mortgage. When a mortgage is foreclosed, all junior encumbrances (including their lease/option) are extinguished (i.e., they are wiped out). So, the tenant no longer has an option to buy and they have no lease (so the foreclosing lender can evict them).
No, the purchase option does not obligate the tenant regarding the owner’s mortgage. But those lease/options are worthless when prices are declining because they establish the option price at the time they are entered into. So, they only make sense for the tenant/optionee when prices are rising and they can lock in a price. When prices are declining, they essentially have an option that is out of the money (and which they paid for up front).
The only way to protect yourself from a defaulting landlord is if you can get the bank to sign a subordination and attornment agreement that would make the mortgage junior to the lease/option. Good luck with getting the bank to agree to that.
Hope that helps.
It does. Many thanks to you and AKRon.
“The only way to protect yourself from a defaulting landlord is if you can get the bank to sign a subordination and attornment agreement that would make the mortgage junior to the lease/option. Good luck with getting the bank to agree to that.”
Hee Hee. If you could pull that off, the holder of the second mortgage/HELOC (which is undoubtedly subordinate, too) would blow a gasket.
“Does a purchase option make you a guarantor of the owner’s mortgage?”
Almost never. The usual lease purchase agreement is just a contractural agreement where you pay above-market rent (say, $400.00 above market) and the landlord ‘credits’ an amount (say, $600.00) a month towards the down payment. There may be an initial cost for the option up-front, too. IMHO all the money ought to be put in an escrow account to keep the landlords grubby fingers off of it. If the landlord goes BK, you do not have a lien, you can just line up with the other creditors and try to get money back. It could be rough skating… Also, typically you can lose the money if you can no longer afford the rent (or leave) or you can not qualify for a mortgage even with the downpayment.
Lease options usually fix the price you will eventually pay for the house. In a declining market, that price will probably be set too high.
The one time a lease option would have been a good idea would be if it were written in 2002 with 2002 prices, and you exercised the option in 2005 and sold the place right away. Other than that, they are usually a loser.
Exactly, there’s a way to prevent that from happening, but those kind of deals don’t attract the sharper tools in the shed.
“Carlson predicted that the market will normalize, saying that the ‘record-high prices that coincided with the condominium conversion frenzy are gone for the near future.’ Investors who might have put their money into selling condos are now looking at rental income, he said.”
Investors who might have sold condos are now looking at a shortfall of rental income relative to carrying costs, and wondering if they can afford to hold on to their falling knives until the point when market values return to a high enough level to cover their cash burn rates. This strategy worked out badly for the dot com corporations, but maybe the residential RE flipper crowd will have better luck…
“As other states adopt stricter regulations on subprime lending practices, California has not rushed to restrict an industry that spent $17.9 million in campaign contributions and on lobbying in the state during the past four years.”
Isn’t it interesting how massive campaign contributions from the subprime lending industry provided ample incentive for politicians in ultra-liberal California to turn a blind eye as predatory subprime lenders put myriad low-income households in the path of future foreclosure?
Not so unusual, it’s always been that way in the USA…the best government money can buy!
There are two types of politicians. Those who serve the rich and powerful while spouting conservative platitudes, and those that serve the rich and powerful while spouting liberal platitudes. First rule of parties: “Ya gotta dance with the one that brung ya.”
From the Mercury News:
Santa Clara county’s imposing a $30 fee to appeal property appraisals, because the “cash-strapped county, which faces a massive $227 million budget shortfall.” That last number jumped out at me.
http://www.mercurynews.com/valley/ci_5965007
Ziggy: so if 7.56 million owners appealed their appraisals, the county would break even!
The county is going to have to accept appeals from outside the county.
great. first aladinsane and now Ziggy…what’s next …ManWhoSoldTheWorld (his stucco sh#tbox in 2005)?
Don’t Deer Hunter yourself, Mau
“Mau’s latest loan requires a $4,718 monthly payment for the first two years followed by payments of $6,097.37. She estimates her monthly family income at about $3,500. ‘I know we are at fault for stupidity, but these companies shouldn’t be doing loans that people can’t pay back,’ Mau said.”
And the daughter is the one with the learning disability…..?
now that was mean…but really funny.
Recessive gene that skipped a generation?
why did she apply for a loan she had no intention of paying back, and also had full knowledge that she couldn’t pay it back even if she wanted to? Let’s hear the consequences for being that kind of a dumbphuck barnacle on the butt of society.
Because she HAD to stop working.
“To make matters worse, Mau had to quit her job to take care of her father as well as her daughter, who has a learning disability.”
Buy even when she was working, her full monthly salary was less than the mortgage payment. Even BEFORE the higher rate kicks in! On what planet would this math add up?
Planet America.
now you are just being picky!
Sieg Hisel
“‘They are people who were put in bad situations, put in bad loans,’ said Holly Hisel, a foreclosure specialist with Coldwell Banker. ‘I think that’s where the majority of these are coming from.’”
Yeah, scotty beamed them into mortgage offices. Once there, the loan officers blindfolded them and forced them to sign papers and accept a 500k loan at gunpoint.
Yeah Holly, I wonder who gave them directions to the mortgage broker’s office, along with a line something like “You’d better go today and get approved or the house will be gone tomorrow”.
Going from “lending specialist” to “foreclosure specialist” wasn’t much of a stretch…
Posted in Bits & Buckets
This is from an email I got today from Tokyo Lofts in Downtown Los Angeles (LA):
____________________________
“Now that summer’s approaching, it’s time to take a closer look at Little Tokyo Lofts. Although we’re close to selling-out, you can still get a great value on a highly desirable loft residence.
For a limited time, loft unit #223 is sale priced at $398,000 - that’s $70,000 less than other comparably sized lofts in LTL!
It won’t last long though. This loft is open and spacious and with lots of light streaming through the steel-framed windows. In addition to hardwood floors and gourmet kitchen, this loft features a separate bedroom area and a Jack and Jill bath that connects it to the main living space. One enclosed garage parking space is included and an additional space is available for purchase. Hurry to make an appointment to see this loft - since it will move quickly. To view this floorplan click here and choose the second floor then click on unit #223.”
________________________
$70K (20%) Haircut for the idiot who bought right before! Who says LA prices aren’t going down?
“Who says LA prices aren’t going down? ”
the owner of unit #323. Because as they know, it’s DIFFERENT on the third floor!
I do wish they’d stop avertising kitchens made of gourmets, as if its a good thing.
“This is from an email I got today from Tokyo Lofts in Downtown Los Angeles (LA):”
As i recall Little Tokyo Lofts is right on corner of 4th and Alameda. Even though it is highly secured controlled access that immediate area is homeless central. Too bad that homeless have their main encampments along alameda and 5th/6th st west to San Pedro because they disrupt what should be potentially a very walkable Dustrict(little Tokyo).
“A five-bedroom, four-bathroom 3,500 square foot house.”
That is the paradigm housing bubble single-family residence.
“That is the paradigm housing bubble single-family residence.”
No kidding. And even worse, I can’t count how many times I’ve heard of people UPSIZING from houses like that because “it’s just too small”. Usually it is a married couple and 1 or 2 kids. (sometimes it’s DINKs)
You’d think that sharing a bedroom was child abuse, not having a “giftwrapping” and scrapbooking room was spousal abuse, and not having a home theatre was masochistic.
on HouseHunters International this week they had a MN couple (DINK) who lived in a 4200 sq ft house. They were moving to Honduras. They wanted to spend about $1.5 million (in Honduras?)
their options:
-2400 sq ft 2BR home for $650,000
-4000 sq ft 4BR home for $1.7 million
-10,000 sq ft 8 BR home for $2.2 million.
Guess which one they picked. (hint, they are from the land of 10,000 lakes)
I have three daughters, all younger than 10. They all share the same room.
Yes, I know, call child protective services on me, but they wanted it that way, at least for now.
And we have a non-trivial income as well.
How about teaching our kids about spending less than you earn, and delayed gratification?
Four kids in our family growing up, the boys doubled up, the girls doubled up. Good thing it was two boys and two girls, worked out well for us, no one complained or thought they had to have their own room.
You had rooms?
Good for you! I’m tired of all this nonsense about every kid needing to have their own room, and every house needing a separate guest suite, and office, and ugh.
It’s official….I hate people.
Since it is now home maintenence season (and I am spending a good chunk of time staining, cleaning, repairing, etc my 2000 sq ft place)- I wonder…do these people maintain their giant places? Are the FB letting their houses fill with termites and rot while the scrape together cash to keep paying the mortgage? I don’t think I would want a bigger place, it’s enough work and expense as it is- and I have the tools and training to do it myself. Is the (underwater FB owned) US housing stock decaying as we speak?
Yes Most aren’t doing any maintenance. Just imagine how the huge stock of FB rentals are being maintained.
My guess is that ATM money paid for the upkeep: maid service, lawn service, pool maintenance, etc. Now that the ATM is empty, I would expect to see more forlorn residences.
I know very few people who clean their own houses anymore, other than myself. And people look at me like I’m crazy when I say we like to clean our own house and maintain our own yard. And we wonder why we have an illegal immigration problem?
I just have to reply to this… I do all my own yard work, pool maintenance, even most of my car maint. Wife cleans, cooks, cares for the baby. Some friends who paid for everything (maid, pool, yard, daycare, nanny) thought we were crazy. At one point I mentioned that I paid cash for a new basic Chevy pickup truck and their mouths literally hit the floor. In their world it was all about the monthly or weekly costs - the idea that bank balances could be $1000 or more was completely alien.
Anyone who hires illegals to do stuff they should be doing themselves, on borrowed money no less, deserve to receive whatever pain the future has in store for them. I work in I.T. in SoCal, and (assuming no one’s lying) most of my collegaues do their own housecleaning & child-rearing. Yardwork’s another story. I’ve never spent a dime on illegal labor and don’t intend to. If I ever get to the point that I’m too old/feeble to mow my own lawn, I’ll hire one of the local kids to do it, or just let it grow.
Wasn’t this the tv show “8 is enough” fictional neighborhood?
“And nowhere is the wave of foreclosure activity more dramatic than in 95832.”
The house looks like it should have been located in Land Park or the Fab 40s. It would be like saying the Gamble House is located in Vernon or Bell.
It WILL be just a Matter of Time before you hear cities and towns threatening to declare Bankruptcy due to this bust. This happened years ago if I’m not mistaken with New York City.
You can only squeeze so much blood and money out of a captive property “owner” before they WALK.
So stay away from municipal bonds?
“This happened years ago if I’m not mistaken with New York City.”
Yes, and even more recently to a certain county (during the early-90’s housing bust) which was a hotbed of subprime lending up until only a few months ago…
“New York City on the Brink
The famous October 30, 1975, headline.
Thirty years ago today President Gerald Ford agreed to float more than $2.3 billion in short-term federal loans to help New York City avoid the catastrophic move of declaring municipal bankruptcy.”
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/web/20051126-new-york-city-gerald-ford-labor-unions-municipal-assistance-corporation-emergency-financial-control-board.shtml
Mark Baldassare
When Government Fails
The Orange County Bankruptcy
http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/8246.html
Orange County is only the HEAD QUARTERS of subprime lending. The subprime borrowers are elsewhere. OC is the center of neo-Alt A — high credit score liar loans with multiple IO loans and multiple “residencies” — loans that would be better than Alt A if the borrow could doc income or provide a down payment.
NYC was on the verge, but never defaulted. Felix Rohatyn created MAC bonds, funded by dedicated sales taxes and basically saved the city. All the bond holders were paid in full.
The famous headline, from the Daily News was:
Ford to City: Drop Dead
And I can recall my mother (who is from Buffalo) heartily agreeing with him. (Being an Upstater, she was no fan of NYC.)
I wonder if there will be a rash of bankruptcies among local municipal and county governments here and there around the country. Some of the local govs here in Florida are crapping their shorts already. I think Pinellas County (or maybe one of the municipalities in the county) is already gearing up a PR campaign complete with talking points on how decreasing taxes will mess with law enforcement and welfare programs. It is designed to create a mood of fear among the citizenry.
It’ll happen.
First goes property taxes, then retail sales, then income — they’ll all take big hits. Once the stock market reverts to reality, there goes capital gains & corporate taxes, too.
Every level of government has spent every dime of their recent windfalls and more, all the while seriously underfunding their retiree pension & health funds. Again, when the SHTF on Wall Street and more than a few hedge funds crater, it’ll hit those funds hard PLUS give lie to the overly rosy “future returns” estimates that hide their true shortfalls.
I fully expect public service — one of the primary drivers of job growth this past 6 years — to suffer serious losses going forward.
The headline from the Onion:
God to Ford: Drop Dead
Look Hans, no capable hands…
“‘It’s safe to say that certainly we haven’t seen this kind of flow out of the state in the past,’ said Hans Johnson, a PPIC demographer who co-authored the report. ‘Probably what’s happening now is unique in California’s history.’”
It’ll be even more lovely here in the OC when more of you are gone. Man, the American Dream dies hard. There are plenty of great SFRs to rent for less than 2k within bicycle distance of the Pacific. And more of them every day. Wait, I mean, it sucks here…
“There are plenty of great SFRs to rent for less than 2k within bicycle distance of the Pacific.”
I am thinking the same will be true for San Diego soon, if not already (e.g., $1m homes renting for $2K/mo). The amount of building that took place over the past five years within biking distance of the Pacific is truly amazing. And it is usually more expensive to keep a SFR vacant forever than to house a renter (at least one that does not quickly destroy the property).
I agree, we are renting a home in Ladera Ranch for a fraction of what it costs to own. However, the long term demographic trends are troubling. I wouldn’t want to live in a state that was Santa Ana, Maywood, or Boyle Heights.
Yeah, whitey is going to abandon the best part of America en masse. (Whitey is waiting to buy up even more of it cheap, would be my guess. Wait, I am whitey…)
Where are you finding SFRs to rent for less than $2K? I’m in an apartment in Costa Mesa and I’d like to find a SFR for under $2K to lease while I wait a few more years before buying. But so far, I haven’t had much luck finding anything decent to rent for under $2K. My needs are simple - a decent house (2 or 3 bedrooms, 1.5 or 2 baths) with a backyard (I want a dog) and a 2-car garage. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
If i were in the market, I would phone up some of the people with the hand-lettered FOR RENT signs, which have been popping up like weeds all over costa mesa/newport. Asking prices are, of course, ridiculous. Time to haggle. I saw nice one yesterday like 16th & Santa Ana. For sale for $1.4 mil or rent for $3k. I bet you could move in for 2k. I bet i would NOT put down a deposit, tho, and would def. go month to month. Sweet house… ocean view right down the block…
My feeling is Newport beach, Costa Mesa would still be too high for renting a SFR with the features you desire. You may find a lease/rent for under $2000 in such adjacent areas as Fountain valley, Huntington Beach, South Santa Ana (below Segerstrom)and Tustin.
If you don’t mind going a bit farther out:Orange, Anaheim,Garden Grove, Westminister,ect. I know these areas less than stellar, some overrun by illegals and crummy dezoned apartmentalization, but a careful perusing of Neighborhoods can find that still quite well-kept up street and still R-1 zoned quiet SF neighborhood in these communites where rentals/lease for large SFR’s would be had for a bit cheaper than Newport Beach or Costa Mesa.
BTW: i know of a perfectly decent middle class section of the NW OC which is a tucked away little corner of Garden grove/Cypress(zip 92845, 90630). It is north of the 22 fwy and lies beteen Valley View and knott ave and south of Katella. It is a small middle class oasis between the skanky areas of Stanton,Buena Park, and wesminister, which might mean good deals on SFH rentals. And it is fairly easy commute from/to LA-OC jobs markets(45-1 hr).
Post your rental resume in Craigslist listing what you need including your rental history with references once you decide on a property.
Let them come to you, instead of you to them.
p.s. Don’t forget to pull the property card and loan documents at the county looking for NOD here.
Here in PDX, I have seen “Cash for your House” places pop up like weeds. I don’t understand the business model in a falling market, unless they offer 50% off a reasonable price. Anyone get this?
I think the technical term is “Trolling for Idiots”
Here in Tucson, we’re seeing a rash of “Employees Never Get Rich” signs. The punchline is that real estate investors and business owners do.
“Ummm, sometimes they do,” says Slim. Then I proceed to name people I know who worked at jobs for their entire lives, and, yes, they did get rich.
And no, I’m not going to make a long-distance call to the number on these signs.
“It’s exciting. I just can’t wait to get into it, because I haven’t seen it. That’s the scary part.”
That’s interesting. The one adjective that I really don’t want entering my mind when I buy my house is “scary.”
Whoops! Wrong reply link…
Usually it is a scam where they convince people that they can keep their house by signing it over to them and then renting it back. Oddly enough, this tends not to work out as intended, except in the “fools and their money” sense.
“Here in PDX, I have seen “Cash for your House” places pop up like weeds. I don’t understand the business model in a falling market, unless they offer 50% off a reasonable price. Anyone get this?”
Cons of various stripes. Of course, on the SDCIA forum they prefer to describe them as various humanitarian efforts to help out the disadvantaged homeowners while making a nice profit.
They are only interested in homes they can lowball, so if you need more for your home than they’re willing to pay, they won’t make the deal. But if you’re facing foreclosure and have tens of thousands of equity, they’ll offer to buy you out at about what you owe (or less, if they think you’ll go for it). Their pitch: it’ll quickly resolve your crisis with the lender, it’ll save your credit rating (whereas foreclosure would trash it), so the buyer is actually doing you a favor.
The other scam is offering to set you up with a deal where you sign the deed over to the con man or his accomplice, who’ll supposedly make the mortgage payments and rent your home back to you for a couple years to rebuild your credit, after which you get the home back and get on with your life. In reality, they pull the equity out of the house, never make the mortgage payments, and you discover too late that you lost your house, your equity, but not your legal responsibility for the mortgage.
Personally, if I lost my job, my health, my savings and was facing foreclosure, I’d torch my home with myself in it before I’d cut a deal with any of these stinking vultures.
I’d rather you torch the place with those vultures in it, not you.
While I’m sipping daqaris in a lawn chair watching >; )
LOL! The mental image will keep a smile on my face the rest of the day.
Now I have Frank’s Wild Years by Tom Waits going through my head
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7587/sword.html
(scroll down for it)
“never could stand that broker”
“Now I have Frank’s Wild Years by Tom Waits going through my head”
Tsk tsk. Admitting online that you listen to Tom Waits immediately gets your name put on the ‘no fly list’. Next you’ll be admitting to listening to Woodie Guthrie.
why are they vultures? They are only paying the true market value of the property. It’s just like buying a car on the last day of the month because the dealer needs to make quota and is more willing to deal, so are you a vulture taking advantage of the “poor” car dealer? You all sy houses are overpriced and then complain when an investor only wants to pay true value, so FB loses his equity, that’s going to happen at foreclosure anyway
The ones who lowball properties aren’t vultures- they are just our brother/sister lowballers. The other kind of ‘cash for house’ people, who get (usually retired and semi-senile) people to sign over their house, charge rent, pay the mortgage in the meantime, and then promise to return it to the seller are almost always con artists, two steps lower than the Nigerian scam IMHO.
“Yvonne Mau, of Pinole, who pulled equity out of her home to build an extra room in 2003 for her elderly father”
It’s a nice gesture to add a room to your house for your elderly father…HOWEVER, it’s not a nice thing if YOU CAN’T AFFORD IT.
“‘I know we are at fault for stupidity, but these companies shouldn’t be doing loans that people can’t pay back,’ Mau said.”
*Sigh*. This sounds like something my five year old would say. “Yes, I hit her, BUT she called me a meany!”
I understand that circumstances can change, and that she had to quit her job, but if that happens, and you can no longer afford your newly expanded house, sell and move to something smaller. Life deals us these setbacks, and it’s not the end of the world, and it’s not your RIGHT to hold on to something you can no longer afford, just because you have an attachment to it. If she was pulling out equity in 2003, she must have bought before then…shouldn’t she have enough in equity to price the house for a fast sale and then downsize?
I guess I’m a little tired of people crying because they have such an attachment to their particular house, especially if they can’t afford it, and especially if it’s because of their own risky behavior (refinancing to get equity out).
Count my wife and I as two professionals with master’s degrees that left California (Bay area) and have not looked back. We have been able to establish a much nicer quality of life situation in Albuquerque than we ever could have in the Bay area. House was about 1/5 the price, children’s activities and other items much closer, more affordable, and friendlier atmosphere. The weather here is amenable to us. I don’t miss CA one lick in regards of living. There was mention of an article a few days ago referring to the ‘War Zone’ of Albuquerque. Glad I don’t live in that part of town, but it does not even compare to the bad areas of Oakland or Los Angeles. A lot fewer illegals here than anywhere I was exposed to in California. Also, many other people here than have left the “Golden State” to make a better life. I only see CA to continue dropping. The example of $560K to $295K for some POS McMansion in Sac in a great example of where this going.
Diet Coke Me.
Need to Leave CA
another condo construction torch job in San Diego today:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070523-1023-bn23fire2.html
Major Insurance companies can tell when a recession is coming.
They hire more in house loss control and risk management personel as well as experienced Fire Marshalls and Arson Investigators.
“As other states adopt stricter regulations on subprime lending practices, California has not rushed to restrict an industry that spent $17.9 million in campaign contributions…”
This was front page on the SF Chronicle this morning, the same paper that crowed a few days ago about SF not having a subprime problem and the median price still going up in the Bay Area. One day they’ll run an article about CA foreclosures going through the roof, two days later they’ll run another article about how our market is “immune”.
I can only hope that as the resets really kick in, prices will stop being so sticky.
JANE LINDHOLM: If you’ve ever been to a cattle auction, you’d be well prepared for a housing auction. Except instead if discussing hoof quality and bloodline, it’s all about square-footage, bathrooms and garages.
HOUSE AUCTIONEER: All right, number 34 in the brochure folks. This is at 39859 Chippewa Circle in Murieta. It’s a four-bedroom, two-and-a-half bath. It’s $219,000 starting bid. Here we go: 219, 250, 219, 250 . . .
At the Riverside Convention Center an hour outside of Los Angeles, about a thousand people with brochures and paddles sit in folding chairs as the bidding starts. On a big screen is a picture of a two-story house with a market value of $420,000
Two minutes later . . .
HOUSE AUCTIONEER: Last call for 300,000, 290 now 3. Anyone else at $300,000? And I haaaaaaaaave sold that $290,000 subject to confirmation.
The 98 houses at this auction have gone through foreclosure and are being sold by the lenders who now hold the titles. Auctions like this are happening more frequently these days as the number of foreclosures is rising.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2007/05/23/PM200705234.html
(ah…the right reply link…)
“It’s exciting. I just can’t wait to get into it, because I haven’t seen it. That’s the scary part.”
That’s interesting. The one adjective that I really don’t want entering my mind when I buy my house is “scary.”
LOL. And by “buy my house” you mean, make the biggest purchase of your life, eh?
“…make the biggest purchase of your life,…”
Sight unseen (shudder!)…
Nice pick Stucco…
Now imagine all those goings on, and speed it up, or make it a little less intelligible?
This one had 1,000 people, 87% rookies, (learning the auction game on $290,000 items might be hazardous to your financial life) and everybody wants to “win” and an auction is unlike going shopping at the mall, as there is competition, real or imagined, and every lot has a clearly defined “winner” and everybody else is a “loser”.
Oh, of the 1,000 people there?
perhaps 50 were interested in buying something, the rest just wanted to go to an auction.
Can’t blame em’, the auctioning game is still very much as it was, way back when, in that a real live human being, coaxes and prods and watches over his flock of seagulls that are looking only at him, respond to his requests for bids, more bids…
When the auctioneer has done his day’s work and the vocal chords are a bit strained, he still has his peacock like stride left, as he steps down and away from the podium, another one man show, starring him.
This was all about speculation and lack of concern about fraud. The homebuyers fingured the market would go up or they would just walk.. The loan brokers didn’t care about puffing up the income because there is never a penalty for doing it. Pension funds are going to eat these losses.
Private profit and socialized losses. Wish I could do that in Las Vegas.
I don’t see the prices coming down much in Los Angeles vicinities. People here, for whatever reason, are continuing to pay up the yazoo for POS homes. 2 bedroom condos are easily still commanding $400-550K plus in some areas such as Glendale/Burbank/Pasadena. Forget about homes or even townhomes…they are still untouchable for hardworking families.
What worries me is all these people who have made alot of ill-gotten gains in the last few years are waiting to buy the foreclosures for “good” deals…relatively speaking. The market has become so ridiculous that a $30K a drop in price on a property that has gone up 200% is some sort of a deal.
I don’t understand…WTF is the thinking process of people these days that makes it justifiable for them to get into $3000K/m mortgages for a condo/townhouse? Why the desperation?
Don’t get me wrong….I’d love to own a place and can dish out that much a month and more…but I’m not that desperate or feel that vunerable.
Seriously…what the hell is wrong with people these days? I feel that just leaving all this behind is becoming a worthwhile venture.
Yep…….everything to do with housing is contained.
“Housing Authority assumes crash positions”
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/news/396827,2_1_AU23_AHA_S1.article
You can do the “we buy houses” deal before foreclosure from people who sold a house and then rolled the equity into their new overpriced mansion which they then HELOC’d. Foreclosure screws the heloc and you have a decent house with a low LTV thanks to FB rolling his equity into the new house. Do lttle short sale to cover his expenses and you can get a house for 30% off. May still be too high, but then you don’t buy. people near me bought for 135, sold for 235, bought for 450, so their 1st is 350 then add the heloc/2d and J6P is a foreclosure waiting to happen but I can get the 450K house for the 350k, maybe a little less. which I can afford (but won’t)
If you can get the 450K house for 350K then it is a 350K house.
That makes no sense…that’s basically justifying the price hikes we’ve seen since a $150K house was selling for $700K…so therefore it’s a $700K house? Yeah I guess…if you want to be reamed up the yazzoo.
When a willing seller and a willing buyer agree on the transaction price, that price is the market value of that item, for that moment, at that location. Later on, between different people, or in a different place the agreed upon market value may go up or it may go down.
The previous poster claims to be able to buy a $450k house for $350k - if that situation really existed do you think the seller (bank or whomever) would sell at the lower price? Of course not, because the bank or owner would sell the “$450K” house to someone willing to pay $450K. If such a buyer does not exist, then the house is obviously not worth $450K. So then they must lower the price until a buyer emerges. That is now the value of the house.
Just because someone else paid $700k for a house that you personally thought was worth $150k, does not mean that the market value at that time to that buyer was not $700k. Obviously they were wrong and you can laugh at them (or offer $150k for their house).
At one point Worldcom stock had a market value of $50. Now it has a market value of $0. Different times, different circumstances. At one point gold had a market value of $35 per ounce. Now…
Think about this for a while.
You are discounting distressed sales and fraud.
I think there is a big difference between price and worth.
I could go out and pay $1 million for an ounce of gold. That is the price. However, if I try to resell it for that price, I won’t be able to (probably). Why?
I’m not on the supply/demand curve.
At $1 million an ounce, everyone would be digging gold mines and no one buying.
At $450K, everyone is building and now that ability to pay is taken into consideration, way fewer are buying.
The current house price, in most markets, is well above the supply/demand curve.
Previous price = $450K. Current price = $350K.
Worth is driven by the fundamentals that control the supply and demand curves = cost of rent, affordability, limitations to construction, cost of construction, population trends, etc. Worth changes MUCH more slowly than price.
“I think there is a big difference between price and worth.”
So do economists.
Consumer Surplus = Subjective Worth - Market Price.
Would you like a cougar with that McPartment?
Mountain Lion Spotted In Rancho Bernardo
Woman Believes She Saw Big Cat On Apartment Roof
Michelle Krish — 10News.com Managing Editor
POSTED: 11:29 am PDT May 22, 2007
SAN DIEGO — People in Rancho Bernardo are concerned about a mountain lion.
http://www.10news.com/news/13367172/detail.html
Given the way people are these days, I’d rather have see a cougar than humans.
From the repossession site:
http://www.procra.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=399
“Family wants damages from finance firm after tow truck driver takes off with children still in car.”
“HOLLY — A Holly family’s $95 dispute with a finance company turned into a car repossession and alleged false imprisonment of two frightened children who were inside the vehicle as it was towed away, according to an Oakland Circuit Court lawsuit.”
“Repos” — the legal if unseemly repossession of cars and trucks when buyers default on payments — are not unusual and are routinely conducted quietly in the dark of night by trained professionals. But according to Kenneth and Jeri Lynn Sobanski, the repo of their 2000 Pontiac Sunbird in October 2005 was another story.”
“It’s pretty unusual, and the kids were understandably traumatized by the incident,” said Dale M. Smith, the couple’s attorney. ”
Hmm. A way to get rid of several expenses at once…
BIG HAT, NO CATTLE types -all over the place
“At a recent courthouse auction, a five-bedroom, four-bathroom 3,500 square foot house on Richfield Way that sold in July 2005 for $526,000 was offered by the bank for $295,000. There were no takers.”
LOL!!!
This is fun to watch.