In A Glutted Market, Buyers Don’t Have To Be Forgiving
Some housing bubble news from Wall Street and Washington. “Declines in home prices in 20 U.S. metropolitan areas accelerated in the 12 months ended in March as the supply of homes exceeded demand, a private survey showed. Home values dropped 1.4 percent from March 2006, after declining 0.8 percent in the year ended February, according to a report today by S&P/Case-Shiller.”
“The report is consistent with last week’s data that showed sellers had to reduce prices to lure buyers into the market for both new and previously-owned properties.”
“Thirteen cities showed a year-over-year decrease in prices for the month, led by a 8.4 percent drop in Detroit home values and a 6 percent drop in San Diego.”
The Associated Press. “U.S. home prices fell 1.4 percent in the first quarter compared to a year ago, the first time since 1991 prices have shown a quarterly decline, according to a housing index released Tuesday by Standard & Poor’s.”
“‘We still don’t see anything that looks like a clear bottom,’ S&P index committee chairman David Blitzer said. ‘We’re still headed down.’”
“Boston, Detroit, San Diego and Washington, D.C. showed the greatest year-over-year declines in prices.”
From Bloomberg. “New home construction in the U.S. may take until 2011 to return to last year’s level, said David Seiders, chief economist for the National Association of Home Builders in Washington.”
“‘We’ve fallen way below trend because we soared way above trend during boom times,’ Seiders said in an interview. ‘The upswing will be relatively slow, unlike earlier cycles.’”
“The inventory of unsold homes is the largest since the Washington-based National Association of Realtors started counting them in 1999 and house prices have suffered the steepest drop since the Great Depression, according to the realtors’ group.”
“Atlanta-based Beazer Homes USA Inc. was offering houses in the first quarter at a development about 44 miles outside Phoenix, Arizona, for $136,990, down 36 percent from the year-earlier price of $215,490, said Samantha Morris, senior consultant in Metrostudy’s Mesa, Arizona, office.”
“Larry Zacks, president of closely held Putnam County Builders Inc. in Mahopac, New York, said he put a 3,150-square-foot house on the market in February for $799,000 and had to reduce the price, first to $749,000, then to $699,000 and then to $659,000.”
“‘We finally sold it for $649,000,’ Zacks said. ‘Things are moving, it’s just a question of finding the right price. In a glutted market, buyers have a huge selection, so they don’t have to be forgiving.’”
“Prime Home Builders in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, is advertising a 23 percent discount on a new four-bedroom townhouse in Naples, Florida. The price was slashed to $344,169 from $449,258 in a development where about half the units have been sold, said Keith Thompson, a marketing consultant with Prime Home Builders.”
“‘It was under contract and the buyer forfeited the deposit, which is pretty common in this market,’ Thompson said. ‘We’re putting it out at a much lower price by rolling the deposit over to the next buyer.’”
From Business Week. “Real estate investors got a swift smack back to reality May 25 with news that existing home sales fell to a four-year low and inventories reached a 15-year high.”
“The time-tested retail strategy of ’slash prices, move inventory’ appeared to be the lesson of the Commerce Dept. data released May 24, with an 11.1% drop in the median sales price for new homes driving new-home sales to an annualized rate of 981,000.”
“The pricing inducements, the largest monthly drop in median sales prices on record, suggest the country’s housing-market woes aren’t over yet. ‘What you’re seeing is the blue-light special,’ Pat McPherron, an economist with Moody’s Economy.com, told the Associated Press on May 24. ‘The only way this market is going to move is by price-cutting.’”
“A Banc of America Securities analyst downgraded home builder NVR Inc. Tuesday, saying home sales and prices in the company’s key markets are sinking.”
“NVR makes more than half of its revenue and nearly three-quarters of its profits in Washington and Baltimore, analyst Daniel Oppenheim said. He expects home sale in those markets to worsen and NVR’s margins to fall.”
“‘Our May survey pointed to a 4th straight month of weak traffic in D.C., after improvement from November to January,’ he said.
National Mortgage News. “We got us an industry catfight! This tiff started early last week at the Mortgage Bankers Association’s National Secondary Market Conference in New York where, according to reporting by National Mortgage News’ Ted Cornwell, trade group officials made a number of veiled public comments blaming the foreclosure crisis on, well, loan brokers.”
“Some mortgage bankers believe that brokers work for incentives (commission, yield spread premiums) and could care less about a loan’s long-term performance.”
“National Association of Mortgage Brokers president Harry Dinham fired off a statement saying, ‘It is truly unfortunate that the president of the Mortgage Bankers Association has attempted to shift blame away from Wall Street, federally chartered banks, state-chartered lenders and underwriters for the subprime situation we find ourselves in today.’”
“NAMB is calling for the creation of a national registry ’so that consumers can be protected by the bad actions of all originators whether they work in a bank, state-chartered lender, credit union or mortgage brokerage.’”
“In 2002, Chinese investors owned about $100 million in U.S agency MBS. Now they own well over $110 billion, a nearly 1,000-fold increase in less than five years.”
From Fitch Ratings. “Home prices were virtually unchanged for 2006 subprime mortgages even as subprime defaults rose to double digit levels, according to Fitch Ratings in a new report.”
“The analysis showed that subprime loans originated in the first quarter-2006 (1Q’06) have experienced only 0.5% of home price inflation (HPI) after 12 months, but that defaults have jumped to 8.3% of outstanding mortgage balances.”
“The low HPI is exacerbating the increased risk associated with these loan attributes said Managing Director Glenn Costello. ‘Some of these borrowers are probably experiencing outright home price declines.’”
The Record Searchlight. “Although the online mortgage company, owned by Residential Capital, sells loans mostly to borrowers with good credit, many people mistakenly thought Ditech was a subprime lender. It also didn’t help that Ditech, based in Costa Mesa, was best known for its low-budget commercials featuring a pudgy, scheming banker shouting: ‘Lost another one to Ditech!’”
“Increasing foreclosures and delinquencies have prompted regulators to examine lending practices, and falling home values in many parts of the country have increased the threat of foreclosures on subprime mortgages.”
“In response, Ditech is ditching the ubiquitous commercials in favor of a more sophisticated marketing campaign that portrays Ditech as a respected financial resource for prime borrowers, who make up about 95 percent of its business.”
“Some mortgage bankers believe that brokers work for incentives (commission, yield spread premiums) and could care less about a loan’s long-term performance.”
True of at least 95% of the industry.
when a FB beats,robs,kills a mort broker that charged him extra premuim - you think the jury may let him walk ?
When he is judged by a jury of his peers? Why not.
So… there were only 20 mortgage brokers when you left the industry?
“NAMB is calling for the creation of a national registry ’so that consumers can be protected by the bad actions of all originators whether they work in a bank, state-chartered lender, credit union or mortgage brokerage.’”
The Los Angeles chapter “NAMBLA” is having their own identity crisis.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see some crossover in their membership rosters.
Here is Silicon Valley, the median keeps going up. Fortunately, we have some additional data to put this single point in context.
See “Has the ‘bottom’ fallen out?” to learn more:
http://www.viewfromsiliconvalley.com/id331.html
Thanks!
“Multiplying the median price by the median price per square foot yields a potentially useful statistic, the implied median size.”
Well, they obviously mean dividing (not multiplying), but I agree with their conclusion that the data suggest low-end sales are gone.
Well. It is a nice try, but you can’t treat medians like means. If we had means we could do that calculation. But medians don’t work like that. One may be tempted to say “Well, it’s a ballpark figure.” But it isn’t. It could be waaaayyyyyyyy off. And, comparing two figures (let’s say this month and last month), each of which could be waaaayyyyyyyy off is likely to be waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off.
HTH
IAT
“In 2002, Chinese investors owned about $100 million in U.S agency MBS. Now they own well over $110 billion, a nearly 1,000-fold increase in less than five years.”
Wow! Will they sell on the open market, or will they keep somewhat non-performing on the books (similar to the Japanese banks some years)
They’ll threaten to do something (not sure what) to pressure the US not to support Taiwan declaring independence. We don’t now (at least officially we don’t) but I think Taiwan is getting antsy. And they probably bet that they have a better chance of US backing under cowboy George than under anyone else (Dem or Republican except maybe Rudy, but I’m not sure about him).
they will keep it because of greed until they go down at least by half
Time to brush up on our Cantonese for OUR New Masters… Ding Hau !
I dunno, mikey, that’s not the way I see it, but as I said earlier, I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to international financial matters. I look back on the days when it seemed that Japan was going to “own” the US. They took it on the chin with their US investments. Looks like China is going to take a bath, too, with investments in MBS.
As to Taiwan, I thought it was always independent of mainland China? How could we not support that position?
Taiwan was where the ruling families of China went when Mao started winning the civil war. Both claimed to be the true rulers of one China until the 70s when Nixon swapped sides (seeing the writing on the wall). Sometime after that Taiwan began to seek independance.
Looks like the Chinese investors have been taken to the cleaners.
Really, Taiwan was what we used to refer to as ‘nationalist china’ before Red China was officially recognized by your Richard Nixon.
Since then Red China is drooling to get Taiwan back.
I think someone is confusing Taiwan with Hong Kong?
110B is nothing. They will wait for the bottom and snap up property.
http://tinyurl.com/2ztn4m
The hordes of Chinese that came west in the 1850’s til the 1870’s (many were given the heave-ho) called San Francisco “Gold Mountain”, and don’t think that name hasn’t been remembered in their collective memory banks…
San Francisco “Gold Mountain”…. the Chinese have not forgot. They will in the near future over run the good USA with their inflated billions of US Dollars, buying everything in sight as we sold ourselves and the country out for material goods that we really needed all on “credit”. Now we pay the price. Sad days for our little children whose parents never understood money as schools had more important things to teach rather than a good basic course in money/debt etc. How’s those algebra classes doing now?
To give you a glimpse of how the Chinese were treated in the days of old, the days of gold, those days of ‘49…
They were always the very LAST to be allowed to work a claim, only after every other nationality had given it a go~
China has an overbuilt, smoke-and-mirrors economy that is being held together by a corrupt government which masks its deficiencies by buying worthless US debt like there’s no tomorrow.
This story doesn’t end well, and it will end far more badly for China, the country with billions of dirt-poor angry rurals who have no love for their oppressive goverment.
And which country has an overbuilt, smoke-and-mirrors economy that is being held together by a corrupt government which masks its deficiencies by selling worthless US debt like there’s no tomorrow?
The country with hundreds of millions of negative net worth angry suburbanites who have no love for their oppressive government?
Siamese twins.
Looks like mortgage losses will piss off one of the few countries the current administration hasn’t convinced to hate us. Can you say “banana republic” in Cantonese?
Minor point, but you would have to learn to say it Mandarin as Cantonese is only really spoken in Hong Kong and some places near by.
‘Now they own well over $110 billion’
This is a tiny fraction of the US’ total MBS market.
From what I’ve heard it’s mostly the crappy tranches of the last couple of years, so it’s likely to be the bonds with the lion’s share of the losses.
Ben,
I agree it is a very small percentage. I also like to use the analogy from when the Japanese were buying up every piece of real estate in the late 80’s. Everyone said “OhhhhhNooooes the japs will own the entire country”…We see how that turned out for em.
I say let em dump a bunch into commercial RE because i am just starting to see some bad cracks here in southwest Fl commercial sector…
Chris
I know many will disagree with me, but I don’t like the idea of foreign citizens and countries, especially communist ones, owning real estate in the US. It’s not a good thing. If we stand for human rights, why do we allow those who don’t, to enjoy the fruits of our labor? Our country has sold out. Sad times.
Oil.
We don’t stand for human rights. We’re torturers, so we have no moral high ground.
Beat me to it. America claiming the upper moral hand is laughable. Between torturers and the ’say anythign to get the deal done’ attitude that rules this country, we are in a world of hurt.
You don’t know how good you have it in this country. A shame.
What do you mean, “WE”? I’m an American, I abhor torture and I’m screaming my bloody head off about to my representatives, who are pieces of dead meat, for all the response you get.
I am not part of that group that approves of torture, and I deeply resent people who think every American is a part of it. Maybe YOU have some agreement with it, therefore YOU have no moral high ground. I, however, do. You don’t speak for me, thank God.
Define torture. Sleep deprivation? Do you have children? If sleep deprivation is torture whom do I sue?
Sue your d**k.
Oh, I dunno — I think no matter how many waterboardings we do, we’re going to have the moral high ground over people who do *real* torture.
Thought experiment: Would you rather be waterboarded, or have your head crushed in a vice?
All human beings are [bleep]holes by nature. The guys who have the moral high ground are those who put at least some restraints on their [bleep]holery. In the land of the true sadist, the waterboarder is a saint.
er…”vise”.
I wouldn’t mind having my head mildly crushed during the performance of certain vices.
“Thirteen cities showed a year-over-year decrease in prices for the month, led by a 8.4 percent drop in Detroit home values and a 6 percent drop in San Diego.”
A six percent drop off a $1m base is $60,000, almost enough to wipe out a year’s worth of household income for the median SD household. Is anyone buying $1m starter homes these days?
Was thinking just this morning about the income/house-price ratio in many places being smaller than the YOY changes in house prices. No wonder in 2004-05 too many people came to think of themselves as big-time RE investors. Certainly their apparent home-equity gains were greater than their wages. And now? ha ha, just as you say GS …
I am somewhat guilty of that thinking. I didn’t think myself as a real estate investor when I bought the McMansion in Chandler, because I bought it to live in just before the boom. Now, after lucking out and having the value skyrocket, I thought myself a genius along with others as things were going up. I did go and look at condos in Scottsdale at Main Street Plaza and the Optima Camelback. But, when the condo’s were starting out for over 500k, I thought that if things start going south, condos will be the first to go. Plus, I realized I was late to the dance as everyone and their brother was there listening to the sales pitch.
As the value of my house continued to skyrocket, I didn’t feel the need to save. I was making more on house appreciation then any savings account would - at the time. However, the size of my payment, also made it impossible to save anything. I wasn’t going into debt further, but I wasn’t making any progress either. I was using a bit of savings each month and I saw the trend going the wrong way for me financially. But, it was easy to justify as the house was worth so much more than I owed.
Fortunately, I did see that it was a good time to sell as others were buying and made out pretty good on the house. I was a little late getting out and missed out on an additional 100k, but after getting burned in stocks in 2000, I did pretty good.
Sure, but if you figure in the -1.0% savings rate, it’s wiping out -100 years of working and saving… So really, the housing drop is providing us with free decades of work, with which to not save the money we lost.
It’s just economics.
lol. You are well on your way to economic greatness.
“‘We’ve fallen way below trend because we soared way above trend during boom times,’ Seiders said in an interview. ‘The upswing will be relatively slow, unlike earlier cycles.’”
His view turned on a dime. Maybe he read yesterday’s prediction thread here?
“The time-tested retail strategy of ’slash prices, move inventory’ appeared to be the lesson of the Commerce Dept. data released May 24, with an 11.1% drop in the median sales price for new homes driving new-home sales to an annualized rate of 981,000.”
There is a substantial problem with this ‘time-tested’ strategy, as last year’s buyers feel like they were cheated, and will tell the world about what a terrible investment real estate is. And it also screws up the comps for anyone thinking about selling now.
‘The only way this market is going to move is by price-cutting.’”
My friend called me to tell me the house next door to hers sold for 13% less than initially listed. This means my friend will have to adjust her asking price - again - since she put her house up for sale ten days or so before the next door neighbor.
Friend first listed: $279,900 (Jan or Feb 2007)
Neighbor first listed: $275,000 (ditto)
Neighbor sold: $240,000 (May 21, 2007)
This is why it’s comical to hear that prices in the PHL area are not dropping. These properties are in one of the more “sought-after” locations.
We sold a house in Philadelphia in 2005. My husband was joking that we might be able to buy it back at half price in a few years.
My neighbors just listed their ~2500sf home at $630K, a ridiculously high price for this neighborhood of mostly modest sized homes (
phillygal,
Wait till you start having problems like the neighbor here in port Charlotte,Fl. He put his place up a little over a year ago.
Started at 289k and has been dropping 10k from the price pretty much each month. The house now lists for 169k. The couple have only had 2 showings and zero offers. Flat out-There are NO buyers at this time in Florida even at these prices…
Chris
Personally, I’m waiting for zero percent financing on houses. (Hey, the US auto industry did it a few years ago.)
hmmm… i might actually buy a house then
“a more sophisticated marketing campaign that portrays Ditech as a respected financial resource for prime borrowers”
I don’t know. When I go to Ditech’s home page (right now), the first thing I notice is a picture of a grinning guy wearing a mustache, a goatee, and a pair of 3D glasses (one red lens, one green). Looks like an ad for a party where illegal drugs will be consumed, not an ad for a “respected financial resource”
When you hit the “play” button near the picture, you get this weird montage of images that is supposed to illustrate how “people are smart.” But the focus of the ad becomes clear when after talking about how smart people have split the atom, it says that “if they’re really smart, they split aces and eights.” This ad is directed at those folks who think they’re going to beat the casino and waste their money doing so. Average Joes looking to hit the lottery or find some other “smart” way to beat the system, like borrow more than they can afford then wait for a gov’t bailout or claim bankruptcy.
Be Forgiving and Buy MY Problem NOW …PLEASE!
ha ha ha
Coast Bank fires their CEO. He did not meet the requirements of the FDIC which means the FDIC has essentially taken over this bank.
This is a great video on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?=-rLYph0J7vc
Wow, it has everything. Shiller, Roubini, the Credit Suisse graph… all it lacks is Ben Jones and GetStucco and Popcorn Neil.
The link is now broken… updated link?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rLYph0J7vc
Here it goes..
I talked to a friend over the weekend. This guy bought property in Oregon about 10 years ago. He said that similar properties were going for 10X what he paid. He said that if you didn’t have rich parents or already did not own property that you would likely never own property. He was speculating on a new caste system in the USA. I did not agree with him but then I was listening to the economists that were saying in 2001 that one should get out of debt… and we all know now that you really wanted was to get in debt to the max…what do I know.
Well . . . remember the proliferation of Wall Street “experts” (including Booyah Boy) who piled on the weekend before the Google IPO (at 85, a price it has never seen) saying it was a sucker’s game to buy that? I bought a big 400 shares in the IPO and felt like an idiot doing that until I saw all of the “experts” piling up on the other side.
He is wrong. The price of property going to the highth it’s now at is dependent on easy money. If the easy money stops, there is going to be no one to buy at the high prices. Your friend is someone that believes in the fairy tale that once a trend starts, it last forever. The fact is all man made systems break down in time. The finance system that cause this bubble is breaking down now. This has occured many time in past, just look up the panic of 1907 as an example.
He said that if you didn’t have rich parents or already did not own property that you would likely never own property. He was speculating on a new caste system in the USA.
If anything it would be a caste system in reverse. Those that own the property are tied to it, unable to move quickly and efficiently as labor markets change. The renters would be flexible, easily able to move and take advantage of higher salaries elsewhere.
So true. Everyone in town feels sorry for my landlord. “Such a sweet guy, he’ll probably never be able to sell That Thing.” I love living in That Thing, but it’s poorly matched to the demographic. Lots of steep staircases in a region where buyers with any real $$$ tend to be over age 60.
From the Movie “Unforgiven”
Little Bill Daggert: I don’t deserve this… to die like this. I was building a house.
Will Munny: Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it.
I loved that movie…Munny was classic…
Impressively honest MSM information, and NAR input, did someone hang mirrors in their houses again?
Looks like Bob and Doug McKenzie are about to raise their interest rates. When will Bernanke get his finger out?
Bloomberg
http://tinyurl.com/2h7fqv
In case you are too old or too young:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H5hKZznc14
heh, and I watched “strange Brew” over the weekend…. eh
There STILL ARE plenty of overpriced, very poor quality condo-conversions and new townhomes going up in places such as La Crescenta, Burbank, Glendale, Montrose, Pasadena, etc…all valued at $500K and above for a 2, 3 bedroom 1100…maybe 1200 sqft places.
The day I can walk in and say I’ll pay $250-300K for the places they are now selling is the day I’ll consider that buyers don’t have to be forgiving. Till then, the sellers can keep bleeding out of every hole imaginable to man.
Hey Nozferat,
Try being in South Pasadena where we are. That same house will cost at least 800,000 here. This will probably be one of the last areas to fall, but fall it will. You just have to be patient. Practice by sitting and watching paint dry.
Are we really getting any more accurate data yet? In the example above, Prime Home Builders (or their marketing hack) said that they could sell for less because they “rolled the deposit over” to the new buyer. New buyer gets house for list less deposit, right? Yet the house in the example was sold for $105,000.00 less than the original price, almost a 25% discount (from $449k to $344k). Are they telling me that the buyer walked from a $105k deposit? That any buyer put up a 25% deposit in this day and age? How was that sale really reported on their books? To the NAR, S&P, Wall Street and NAHB? Did they tell anyone that they’re marking their houses down by 25%?
The builders are still trying to candy-coat the losses. I’m seeing 10-20% losses on most everything I come into contact with, and more on second trusts and foreclosures, and this is in Northern Virginia. I’m standing firm on my position that 2q results announced in late June-July will be so dismal that real concern will set in. By fall, there will be more than a whiff of panic in the air. In fact, we may want to stock up on deoderizers.
Sure you can and a lot of people in 04 or 05′ can put $100K down or even $200K. They brought pre 1997 and sold their good location home for $200K+ profit, then immediate brought another house with $100K down or $200K. Obviously, you know what these people should have done with those gains.
After what I have seen over the last two weeks, panic is starting to set in.
looked at a house. the bagholder mean homeowner bought it about one and half years ago at $699k now asking $679K. Started out at $799k a year ago. LOL!!!!!!!!!
The POS dump isn’t worth more than $500k imo.
Knock knock the sheriff is here.
I betcha the sales of anitperspirant are picking up.
How about liquor sales or sleeping pills or light bulbs from late night tossing and turning.
It will be a nice night sleeping in my cheap rental after looking at my cash balance increase by the month while house price go down the pooper.
looked at a house. the bagholder mean homeowner bought it about one and half years ago at $699k now asking $679K. Started out at $799k a year ago. LOL!!!!!!!!!
The POS dump isn’t worth more than $500k imo.
Knock knock the sheriff is here.
Actually..I lied. “It” isn’t worth more than 450K.
TIMBER!
Shadow Government Statistics chimes in on the housing number spin:
http://www.shadowstats.com/cgi-bin/sgs/
“May. 28, 2007
Housing and Durable Goods Consistent with Faltering Economy / Downside Data Likely in Week Ahead / Wall Street Hypesters Fan False Hopes of Economic Turn / On Thursday, regularly-volatile new home sales were reported up 16.2% for the month of April, and Wall Street’s spinmeisters went to town. The hypesters who tried to weave that isolated and volatile number into a housing recovery story would be comfortable working for the propaganda ministry of the average totalitarian state.”
CME numbers for San Diego have been updated to include May ‘08.
The index peaked late Sept. ‘06 where the Nov. ‘06 number was at 248.60. May ‘08 is now at 215.00, That’s a 13.5% drop in expected (future) San Diego price index. This HB might play out as slow as we fear…..
My wife was looking at REO property in Detroit. A 2200sf home in downtown for $9,900, another 2,896 sf home close to downtown for $24,500, nice exteriors too. Maybe the mantra from Detroit should be “Buy a Ford SUV and we will throw in a free house”
“In response, Ditech is ditching the ubiquitous commercials in favor of a more sophisticated marketing campaign that portrays Ditech as a respected financial resource for prime borrowers, who make up about 95 percent of its business.”
Their new advertising on TV is “People are Smart!” Are they trying to encourage FBs by making them feel better about themselves and their poor financial situations?
Besides, why wouldn’t anyone think Ditech was purely subprime? The commercials, especially all of them talking about consolidating your 2nd line, 3rd line, investment properties, vacation home, et al.
Arghh! The “Smart” campaign is so overused. From hotels to cars to loans, “you’re smart if you buy from us.” It’s actually meant for people too lazy to really consider the ramifications of what they’re buying. “Smart” people are smart enough to see through it.
(Disclaimer: I do like Holiday Inn Express)
“Atlanta-based Beazer Homes USA Inc. was offering houses in the first quarter at a development about 44 miles outside Phoenix, Arizona, for $136,990, down 36 percent from the year-earlier price of $215,490, said Samantha Morris, senior consultant in Metrostudy’s Mesa, Arizona, office.”
That’s hard to understand. I mean, who DOESN’T welcome the prospect of a 44-mile commute into PHX everyday?
Valley Metro (Phoenix area public transportation) already has express bus service from/to Ajo-Gila Bend and Wickenburg!
Can Florence, Casa Grande and Queen Creek be far behind?
http://www.valleymetro.org/bus/Bus_Routes/Route_685/index.htm
http://www.valleymetro.org/bus/Bus_Routes/Route_660/index.htm
. “New home construction in the U.S. may take until 2011 to return to last year’s level, said David Seiders, chief economist for the National Association of Home Builders in Washington.”
Financial ASTROLOGERS also saying that home building will probably not turn around until 2011… I wonder where Seiders is getting his prediction info. HEH.