Hit With The Double Whammy In Florida
The Herald Tribune reports from Florida. “‘For Rent’ signs litter lawns in almost every Southwest Florida neighborhood. The apartment and home rental vacancy rate is at nearly 10 percent because of the mass exodus of construction and service sector workers from the area. Instead of lowering rents, some landlords are simply getting out of the business.”
“One theory goes that Southwest Florida landlords cannot afford to lower their rents because of the spiraling cost of taxes and insurance. For instance, a two-bedroom house in Sarasota that sold for $250,000, with 20 percent down, paying 6 percent interest on a 30-year mortgage, would cost $1,199 per month, not including closing costs, property taxes and insurance, to own.”
“The average price listed for two-bedroom house rentals in the classified section is $850 to $900 per month.”
“‘I had to sell one of my houses last year just to cover my taxes. My rent could not keep up,’ said Mike Geenen, a Sarasota landlord for more than 27 years. ‘I borrowed money and kept borrowing money, and I finally had to sell out, which got me out of debt.’”
“‘If there’s not a drastic resolution to this, I am going to liquidate and move to Tennessee,’ said Geenen, who has sold three of his eight rental houses in recent years.”
“The Florida Agency for Workforce Innovation says that, statewide, more than 3,000 construction jobs were lost just in the first three months of 2007. That likely understates the total because the majority of workers in the industry are subcontractors, who often are not counted.”
“During the first quarter, for example, 217 housing units were built in Sarasota County, a 60 percent decline from the same time last year.”
“Al Holmes, president of the Sarasota and Manatee landlord associations, who manages the 66-unit Baltic Apartments in Sarasota, has lost nearly a dozen renters in the past year because they could no longer afford to live in the region.”
“‘The construction side got sick and they all started moving out. Now, we’re seeing a lot of vacancies. We’re seeing vacancies like we’ve never seen before,’ Holmes said.”
“His taxes and property insurance have gone up 307 percent in the last few years, he said. To break even, Holmes would have to pass on to his tenants a rent increase of about $75 or $100 per month on an $850-per-month rental.”
“Holmes knows his tenants would not like it, and would not have to accept it with so many other rentals on the market.”
“‘We’re being hit with the double whammy. The building trade is slow. Taxes are high. Rent is low. And insurance is thrown on top of it,’ he said.” “Complicating that is the fact that Southwest Florida has so much investment property from the recent housing boom that likewise is being rented out, or whose owners are at least trying.”
“‘All these people who bought condominiums and houses in speculation are grateful right now just to have someone to help cover the mortgage,’ said Jude Levy, an affordable housing advocate. ‘But eventually, they are finally going to sell that house and that condo.’”
“Geenen considers himself fortunate because he owes very little on the majority of his properties. When the housing market rebounds, Geenen thinks he will be well positioned to cash out. He imagines many others who might not be so lucky.”
“‘Some of these people are mortgaged right to the hilt. They can’t move,’ he said.”
“For SevenShores, one of the largest Manatee County developments ever, it is back to the drawing board, literally, after the owner, St. Joe Co., recently announced it was suspending sales at the site and offered to return deposits.”
“The suspension announcement came after St. Joe, the state’s largest landholder with 900,000 acres, said in August that it planned to exit Florida home building.”
“That was a move that resulted in layoffs and a greater reliance on local, regional and national home builders.”
“Condos at the development were expected to range from the high $600,000s to about $1 million. A new product mix will likely reduce those lofty price points. Many other developers in the region have taken that tack to stimulate sales.”
The Palm Beach Post. “Despite a prolonged housing slump, 4,000 new homes will be going up west of Interstate 95. Centex Homes unveiled plans for Phase 1 of the 2,068-acre project at a planning and zoning board meeting Tuesday.”
“A contract dispute waylaid plans for homes in 2003, just as nearby landowners like Core Communities, PGA and G.L. Homes were announcing dreams of building their own mega-communities on vast tracts of farmland west of I-95.”
“With the court battle settled and Centex paying $110 million for the land last year, developers said they are eager to break ground next spring despite the slumping housing market.”
“No price range has been set, but Kenneth DeLaTorre of Centex said value will be a key factor in attracting buyers in a lackluster market.”
The News Journal. “The number of permits for new single-family homes in Volusia County during the first quarter of 2007 fell nearly 45 percent from the first quarter of 2006, according to a new report.”
“The latest quarterly figures continue a decline that began in early 2006. Rick Michael, Volusia County’s economic development director, said his agency tracks the housing permits issued by every city and the county every three months, and those figures show the number actually peaked in the last quarter of 2005.”
“‘You cannot measure against 2005 because it was an artificially robust year,’ Michael said. ‘The housing market has come down to what it was before it heated up (that year). We’re back to normal.’”
“The downturn in housing starts also affects construction employment, Michael said, although the decline in jobs will lag behind the fall in permits issued.”
From Hernando Today. “About 200 people packed a county commission budget workshop Tuesday pleading for tax reform. In the last five years, James Knotts of Spring Hill says his property taxes have risen 100 percent. During that same period, his house insurance soared 300 percent, he told county commissioners.”
“Sen. Paula Dockery said legislators must walk a fine line between cutting taxes and jeopardizing public service.”
“Ana Trinque said the county raked in big bucks during he housing explosion of 2006. ‘What did the county do with all that money from the housing boom?’ she asked.”
“Realtor Vera DuGray said she can live with reduced services if it means cutting her taxes. ‘We need tax relief and it has to come now,’ she said.”
“Linda Hayward, part of the Lower Hernando County Taxes group, said she couldn’t reconcile commissioners’ dire economic budgetary warnings when the county’s reserve budget grew 54 percent from 2005 to 2007. Owning property has now become a liability instead of an asset, she said.”
‘Facing large budget cuts as a result of tax relief proposals in Tallahassee, Palm Beach County commissioners said today that the property appraisers office should be doing more to stamp out homestead-exemption fraud.’
“…County commissioners said today that the property appraisers office should be doing more to stamp out homestead-exemption fraud.’ ”
Yeah, that will fix it! How about STOP SPENDING!
You know, that might help the construction trade in a weird way. I don’t know if Florida school systems are dependent on the state to help with their budgets or if the property taxes go right to the localities, but if there is a big pull back on money in the state, the schools will have to lower spending. If that increases class sizes, then maybe you need the builders to come in and knock down walls in the schools so that one teacher can cover two classrooms. After all, there is some limit on how many desks you can fit in a room.
Not saying that the work will last long, but it’s a job.
“The Florida Agency for Workforce Innovation says that, statewide, more than 3,000 construction jobs were lost just in the first three months of 2007. That likely understates the total because the majority of workers in the industry are subcontractors, who often are not counted.”
There is the problem with construction job reports - the subcontractors are often ‘not counted.’ Here in So Cal, probably 10k illegals are not counted in the employment stats per month.
But somehow I get the feeling those illegals will will show up at an unemployment office and get beni’s with their social security #123-45-6789
How exactly? Tell me and I’ll come down there and try.
Fed’s Lacker (or is that Lackey!) says housing will find a bottom this year.
These guys have seen more bottoms than Hugh Hefner.
Yeah, while grabbing it’s ass.
It’s possible… if this stays the bottom for 5-10 years.
watch BLS send the price checkers to these areas
= inflation gone
Does anyone remember that trailer park right on ocean where each owner received a million dollars to get out? Did they ever sell and what happened to that development?
That was Briny Breezes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briny_Breezes,_Florida
I will be amazed if this deal actually goes down.
I thought it was already DOA.
I said this many months ago (perhaps a year). Those owners should have immediately found investors and sold their properties for 800K. The instant that deal was done (while it still looked like it might happen) they should have “optioned out”.
There is a chance this will happen someday, but spending that kind of money for the property, they are going to have a build a 100 story high rise to recoup the costs.
“‘For Rent’ signs litter lawns in almost every Southwest Florida neighborhood.
I’m starting to see lots of “For Rent” signs for 3 story townhomes in Manassass and other areas in Northern Virginia.
Wait….do you hear that? That crazy fast tapping noise….like someone is dancing a jig of happiness while Florida crumbles….why it’s Al Gore!
Are you referring to the rigged 2000 election results?
No more rigged than the results delivered to JFK by (the original) Mayor Daley’s machine in 1960. Move on already (oh wait, isn’t that the name of a political group?).
thanks bill! this site and so many others are full of people who can’t “move on” form 2000.
“About 200 people packed a county commission budget workshop Tuesday pleading for tax reform. In the last five years, James Knotts of Spring Hill says his property taxes have risen 100 percent. During that same period, his house insurance soared 300 percent, he told county commissioners.”
Welcome to the ownership society! As the bubble fizzles out and prices inevitably nose-dive, local officials and insurance people have no choice but to raise the rates to ensure their income is stable. The homeowner is their primary source of funds. The said homeowner should stop complaining and get on with his daily struggle. But then owning a home is worth it! Besides, if s/he doesn’t pay enough of the county or town taxes, civic services deteriorate hurting the values, right?
“if s/he doesn’t pay enough of the county or town taxes, civic services deteriorate hurting the values, right?”
They had a story on the news this morning about how a man in Martin County was saved by paramedics and taxes shouldn’t be cut because he would have died if there was a tax cut. This is the shameful propeganda that keeps reform from happening. Why not show the hundreds of millions wasted on pet projects in the last 5 years alone?
Can anyone in FL summarize from how badly the different areas are doing (like a 1 to 10) worst to better. From what I read on the blog it seems like Naples and Sarasota are vying for top position - but I could be all wrong. Just wondering because in talking to friends coming back from spring trips they didn’t seem to notice anything with the R/E situation. They may not have been looking or in areas that haven’t been hard hit. Or because they are from Michigan it looks normal.
GPBlank,
I’m from MI but live in FL full time. Naples and SW Florida are not being hit that hard as far as prices are concerened. Homes just aren’t selling because people aren’t moving on price.
I think those who have it the worst are Palm Beach County and Orlando Area. These are the two hardest hit areas because they were the most over the top with increases. I’m in Palm Beach County. Homes in my neighborhood that you couldn’t touch under $300,000 are now selling as low as $199,000 and now there are some LISTED that low. Soon you’ll be able to pick up a home on my block for $150,000. The median price remains the same because the buyer who can afford the $300,000 home just isn’t looking in my neighborhood right now. Those who are looking are the ones who got priced out of the market and aren’t patient enough to wait for the $150,000 level.
Thanks, I had the basket case areas all wrong. How does Miami Lauderdale rank as compared with the west coast?
“How does Miami Lauderdale rank as compared with the west coast?”
Miami was hit with Condo Craze V 2.0. It’s just like in the 80’s when Miami Beach got built up with the success of Miami Vice. Too many condos too quickly. The single family market didn’t go TOO insane. Dade County homes are still in the $280K range to about $400K for a reasonable house. Late 90’s those same homes were fetching $180K to $300K. Not too much of a run-up, so probably not too much of a fallout. On the other hand, I wouldn’t want to be the owner of a Miami condo right now!
Broward’s a different story. It went high fast, but peaked a good 6 months before Palm Beach County. Right now things are pretty steady there but I think Broward’s at a “false bottom.” Look for another 15 to 25% fall in most areas.
People in SW FL are in LA LA Land. Until prices fall hard, nothing will sell. I don’t know if people have more holding power in SWFL or what. Maybe someone else has some input on that one. A house that was overpriced at $500K isn’t much better at $489K just reduced. Until we see the kind of fall that we’ve experienced in Palm Beach County, I only see the pain lasting longer.
uh no, those Miami numbers are off.
There has been a huge run up in SFRs.
For example, a friend just sold a home for 315k that was purchased in 99 for 105k.
Simple tract home ,1200sq ft, 3/1 ,single car garage that doesn’t quite fit a car in. Not really updated since Andrew.
Realtor wanted it priced at 350k, but there were NO offers at that price. 10% drop and it was sold to a neighbor.
There are now generally 4 Cars in yard. Must be tight quarters inside!
“uh no, those Miami numbers are off”
What area of Miami? The MAJORITY of Miami was over priced long before the rest of S. Florida. Is it in the slums?
Palmetto Bay. A pretty decent area actually.
As my name implies, I have lived here all my life.Spent childhood years cruising this whole county with a dad that worked in the zoning dept.
The real run up in prices was not until 2000-2001.
As far as condos go,it’s looking awful. There is an article today in the Daily Business Review.
http://www.dailybusinessreview.com/news.html?news_id=43542
In Northern Palm Beach County, Palm Beach Gardens for example, the prices are not receding fast enough. This is taking much too long to play out. There are certainly many people here with more money than brains. As we know, having money doesn’t mean one is also intelligent. These people see a 10% price cut on a house and they jump right in! It’s amazing. I’ve been fence sitting for a year and am becoming increasingly frustrated. I saw a house in PBG reduced to $545,000 a couple of days ago. The original listing price? $1,050,000. What a joke. These people have no clue.
“I saw a house in PBG reduced to $545,000 a couple of days ago. ”
That’s a 50% off sale! Gardens is it’s own little world. It probably won’t see the kind of hit that central Palm Beach County is taking. Like you said, people have more money than brains a lot of the time there. Gardens has a lot of older homes that people just won’t take a lower price on. It’s my guess that Gardens will see a 20% drop overall from peak…unless people see it for what it really is…an over priced Royal Palm Beach.
Yes, Imagine that. A 50% off sale. The MLS # is
R2806976. It’s a pathetic place for $545,000. It’s actually for sale by the bank right now. If I knew that all they would give back in PBG is 20%, I would look elsewhere. Nevertheless, in my opinion, we’re still at the beginning of this “correction.”
“It’s actually for sale by the bank right now.”
That’s what explains it. The bank sets a price based on what they’re owed without regard to the market or true value. The home may actually be worth $350,000.
http://www.ibiscountryclubrealty.com/listing_sheet/R2806976#
that house is not worth $350,000
“that house is not worth $350,000″
2564 square feet under air on 1.7 acres in the Gardens? I’ll line people up for miles to pay that. What do you mean it’s not worth $350K? I WOULD PAY $350K on 1.7 acres!!!!
The house is $545,000 and it’s in Country Estates. I would also pay 350K for it. However, I wouldn’t pay anywhere near the 545K they want. They’re actually into it for more than 600K, but I couldn’t care less about what they have in it.
I am coming down to Palm Beach Gardens to look at houses next month. I really like Mirasol and Ibis. However, I still think the bottom is months if not a year or more away. The longer these flippers/speculators hold these houses the more desparate they will become. When the banks start foreclosing they will mark it down just to get it off their balance sheet. THEY WILL NOT HOLD IT. Banking regulations require they tie up to much capital on REO. At that point they will have already recognized the loss and will just dump it to get rid of it.
The bottom is certainly not months away unless you’re tally is over 12 months. I believe it won’t happen for at least another 24 months. We have to get rid of the flippers, scammers and wannabe’s. It is going to take a long time to weed them out. There has to be a lot more foreclosures to straighten out this mess. They put half million dollar prices on houses here like it’s nothing. I don’t knock anyone’s income, but the fact is, one cannot afford a half million dollar house witha 50K yearly income. By the way, the house I was referring to in my previous post is in PB Country Estates, not Ibis. Ibis is way out there. Not where I want to be.
“By the way, the house I was referring to in my previous post is in PB Country Estates”
The real estate agent’s site is just based in IBIS. I was able to see that the house is on substantial land…something you don’t get in IBIS regardless of how far from civilization it is.
I think those who have it the worst are Palm Beach County and Orlando Area
Imagine that! Low paid Disney employees can’t afford 300K houses! Who would have guessed?
In Broward County (Coral Springs) a house in my neighborhood I thought aggressively priced went on the market about six weeks ago for $415,000. A lot of open houses and the home didn’t sell. Drove past the house the other day and saw all the signs “Price Reduced” Aggressively Priced”. Went home and found it on Realtor.com for $350,000. I’m a pessimist about the current housing price situation (have been for some time), but if this house doesn’t sell after a $65,000 discount, I guess maybe even I underestimated the correction in progress.
“I’m a pessimist about the current housing price situation (have been for some time), but if this house doesn’t sell after a $65,000 discount, I guess maybe even I underestimated the correction in progress. ”
Broward’s already had a correction. It’s my opinion without knowing all of the details that $415,000 may have been an agressive price a year ago but today is not even close.
Coral Springs has a lot going for it. Coral Springs and Parkland are the only two communities I’d even entertain in Broward.
I’ve been watching Coral Springs for almost 1 year, and much of the homes are still way over priced. Coral Springs and Parkland are nicer than most but, getting very crowded. Nothing there but restaurants. I’ve seen 80’s homes for 500k and they are nothing to speak of. The home prices may not drop, but their not selling either. Unless only the rich move here, prices must fall.
“I’ve seen 80’s homes for 500k and they are nothing to speak of.”
That’s a stuck in 2005 price. I’ve seen movement in the area at about $150 per square foot. If you’re asking $250 or $300 like the “good old days”…forget it.
Just moved from Coral Springs to GA and I can say I was one of the lucky ones to sell. Prices still way to high for most to afford in the South Florida market. I bought before the boom, never tapped equity so I could price aggressive. Can say I don’t miss anything about it and find the enviroment here much better, taxes, employment,people and especially insurance(loving only 1K deductible instead of 50K) Florida market will continue to be depressed due to tax,insurance and prices of homes for a long time to come…if you don’t have to buy now don’t and if you can leave…leave…Sunshine State great to visit..and that’s all..
Gpblank,
I can tell you that the Port Charlotte/North Port area is so over built it is hard to describe without actually living in the area.
Example. At the end of my street is a foreclosure. The owner was foreclosed on in Jan 06. The bank has the lady living in the house for upkeep till it sells…How much is the note ? 129k w/o fees. As i drive down the street she is moving out. So i stop and ask…”How much did the bank get for your place ?” She says “Oh,it hasn’t sold yet,i am moving in with my daughter to save money”. The day she moved in the house it was stuck on the market for 305k !!!!! I doubt she make more than a couple of payments.
The big problem that i am seeing is REO hasn’t widely hit the south Florida market yet. After living thru the SoCal RE bust in hte early nineties i can say here on he west coast it is just now starting to unravel….
Chris
“The big problem that i am seeing is REO hasn’t widely hit the south Florida market yet.”
This leads back to my holding question. Do they just have the ability to hold the bag longer in SWFL?
Prices in Naples are off around 15%. The difference between the seller’s view of what a property is worth and the buyer is another 20%. For example, our auction last fall resulted in the highest bid at only 55% of the zillow estimate. Most of the properties’ reserves were not hit. There is a growing fear by the holders of property but they are hanging on so far.
When you zillow some of the high end properties ($2,000,000 and up), if they sell at all, the price is 10% off the zillow price. The zillow charts show a top in mid 2005 followed by a 22% decline into last fall. Since 11/05 there has been a seasonal low volume advance leaving the market off about 15% from the top. Now that the season is over look for prices to start tankng again.
One theory goes that Southwest Florida landlords cannot afford to lower their rents because of the spiraling cost of taxes and insurance. For instance, a two-bedroom house … would cost $1,199 per month, not including closing costs, property taxes and insurance
Somewhat of a non-sequitur. They theorize the problem is taxes and insurance, then give an example where taxes and insurance aren’t the problem.
And that right there is why 3 or so years ago my family quit even looking at income properties. Until prices retreat to where you can put 20% down and then have a 15% ROI why even waste your time dealing with renters ? The deals will come back,Heck they were readily available until 3-4 years ago…
Chris
from 1890 to 1999 you could do that
20% cash down & positive flow from day one
it will be back there someday
So why didn’t the “reporter” Try and answer her question? And will he follow up tomorrow with the answer where did all the money go?
And why didn’t they just Lower the tax rate? so there would be less then a 25% increase instead of 100%
Serious questions the MSM is scared to touch with a ten foot pole.
……
“Ana Trinque said the county raked in big bucks during he housing explosion of 2006. ‘What did the county do with all that money from the housing boom?’ she asked.”
“Ana Trinque said the county raked in big bucks during he housing explosion of 2006. ‘What did the county do with all that money from the housing boom?’ she asked.”
“Linda Hayward, part of the Lower Hernando County Taxes group, said she couldn’t reconcile commissioners’ dire economic budgetary warnings when the county’s reserve budget grew 54 percent from 2005 to 2007.
Looks like some rainy day funding. Not a bad call approaching monsoon season.
Wow … I scratched my head at that too.
Local gov’t is supposed to build up a reserve fund in fat years, not spend it all. That way, in lean years, they don’t have to turn the lights out in the public schools or defer maintenance on the sewers.
A lot of municipalities have gotten in trouble by spending the wealth in fat years … a lot of municipalities will get in trouble. Case in point: Gainesville, FL.
The sad thing is that the city council decided to create millions of dollars in obligations to keep a few dozen bums off the street, instead of paying for needed improvements in the county jail. The county is in hot water for the jail situation, but, oh no, it’s more important to treat drunken bums like kings … free food, free lodging. The free booze dried up, but the students give the bums cash so they can buy their beer now.
Serious questions the MSM is scared to touch with a ten foot pole.
That’s what happens when the MSM gets the lions share of its reveneues from advertisers.
“The suspension announcement came after St. Joe, the state’s largest landholder with 900,000 acres, said in August that it planned to exit Florida home building.”
900,000 acres, that’s a patch of land 37 miles by 37 miles (633 acres to a square mile), roughly the size of the Jacksonville city limits. Looks like they are making more land.
I square mile contains 640 acres, also known as a section in non colonial survey states.
So, how soon before St Joe declares BR? They shoulda’ stuck to paper!
Roidy
St. Joe will probably declare BK as soon as the price of land drops below their original price. Somewhere in the $50 per acre range. They’ve owned most of that land for decades…
Rick
“Geenen considers himself fortunate because he owes very little on the majority of his properties. When the housing market rebounds, Geenen thinks he will be well positioned to cash out. He imagines many others who might not be so lucky.”
Rebounds? It’s still ten miles above ground and falling without a parachute. I seriously doubt it will rebound for decades. Buying freakishly overpriced houses on credit cards doesn’t make for a sane economy.
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Once gain, the National Association of Realtors has lowered its forecasts for key housing indicators for this year and next. Sales of existing homes are now expected to fall 4.6% to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 6.18 million. A month ago, the real estate trade group was expecting sales to fall 2.9%. Sales of new homes are expected to fall 18.2% to 860,000 and housing starts are expected to fall 20.4% to 1.43 million.
Northern Colorado statistics through May are in:
Total home sales down 7.89% YTD,
New home sales down 32.88% YTD,
Ft. Collins total sales are actually up 1.4%,
New home sales are down accross the board with biggest drops YOY in Johnstown (57% lower), Loveland (52% lower), Greeley (44% lower) and Windsor (24% lower).
Upper end ($650k+ is extremely slow)
Medians are mostly up slightly.
Sorry, no inventory or new start data.
I can’t even fathom who could afford a 600K house in Larimer county. Even 300K houses are a very hard sell. 2 have sold this year in our street, to buyers who relocated from Calif and Virginia (they must have seemed like a steal to them). Both houses have been on the market for 2 years+, and both were steadily discounted from high 300’s to low 300’s. I thought that they would never sell.
There is also an upper 400K golf course view house across the street from us that has been for sale for a year. Its vacant (the owners divorced) but kept up. It will be interesting to see how it has top go to sell.
It will be interesting to see how low it has to go to sell.
I wish we had an edit function. I know, its free, so don’t complain!
Have you seen all the $1 million specs in Water Valley, Harmony Club, Boyd Lake, Glenn Ridge, Hill at Cobb Lake???
Per Coloproperty.com there are 92 $1 million + homes on the market in FTC, Loveland and Windsor combined. Number of sales YTD is a grand total of TWO (2) per IRES!!!
and 357 homes on the market over $600k in FTC, Loveland and Windsor combined.
We need some of those 50% off sales here in Colorado.
I know, those builders are nuts. Are they expecting the doctors at the new hospital in Loveland to buy those houses?
FWIW, those 1 million specs are very nice, much nicer than any McMansion built in Vegas, Cali or Phoenix. But still, 1 million? 350K will get you 3000+ sq ft plus a finished basement out here. Who has that kind of money in Loveland?
A dollar-volume stat would be nice, that with a units sold figure and you’d be able to figure out a lot.
Frick, I’ll rent a two-bedroom house in FL for 850!
“‘If there’s not a drastic resolution to this, I am going to liquidate and move to Tennessee,’
This got me thinking. How will the population/demographics in FL change in the long run as a result of idiots recently moving there for the gold rush and the smarter people moving away. Has the jackass proportion in FL been permanently adjusted higher?
And what’s happenning to the demographics in N.Carolina and TN?
It has been suggested on this blog before that there will be echo booms in the Carolinas, Tennessee and Georgia due FL demo shifts. My friend in Knoxville told me the other day her friend bought a small home in a marginal neighborhood 2 years ago for $45k and just sold it for a $100k. It needed tons of work and all they did was party in it.
Moved to Chattanooga, TN after 17 Yrs in NoVA, and prior to that NYC (LI actually), Buffalo, and Detroit. This place is GREAT. It’s got everything, and when I forget that & drive to ATL or Nashville (1½ hr to either), I always swear that I’ll never go back there again. But I’m worried that Floridians will find out about this great, 4 season, low tax, semi-mountainous oasis!
house hater on HIVtv has places in Germantown TN
wow cheap and friendly
wait… isn’t that the part of the world where frog-giggin is listed as a tourist attraction?
As I pointed out, I’ve lived in, or around, big Northern cities all my life. A good mid-size city in the southeast US is not one step back in terms of amenities. In terms of quality of life…well, if you haven’t been there, you’d wouldn’t understand!
funny - no one ever goes back north
We’re “halfbacks” and loving it here. Only problem is that we’re far enough from any major employment center that it’s really only suitable for retirees like us.
But if you have a career that you can do anywhere, check out medium size cities in North Carolina, South Carolina and Tennessee.
We don’t miss the megalopolis one bit. Driving north to visit kin in the DC area, we get antsy once we approach Richmond. And it ain’t just from the heavy traffic on I-95. On the way home, once we hit I-85 near Petersburg we start to breathe normally again.
I wish people would shut up about western north carolina and eastern tennessee. They’re going to run up the prices and push up density. No thanks.
I note that 75th percentile homes in Nashville are up US$100,000 - or about 30% - in teh past 18 months since Nissan moved their headquarters there. The fewer people that know about it, the better.
Of course, Marc Faber spilled the beans a few months ago:
http://dissidentnews.wordpress.com/2006/12/25/will-the-us-become-a-banana-republic-by-marc-faber/
Finally, I also have to point out that there are two socially different Americas: there are the money and asset shufflers in the coastal areas; and then there is the conservative, but extremely friendly and hospitable, inland and southern population. Tennessee was an eyeopener for me. Although I had travelled around the South in the past, the contrast between Tennessee’s social fabric and that of New England or of California’s coastal regions could hardly be more striking. And while in earlier reports I have been very critical about the Southern states that supported the Bush administration, I also have to admit that the types of Americans who live outside the coastal regions are also those most likely to retard the process of American society sliding into the state of a banana republic.
These people tend to have high ethical values (although admittedly sometimes misdirected), and they are very concerned about and proud of their small communities. I came away with the impression that people in these communities help and support each other, and are also – in a positive sense – patriotic and proud to be Americans. I was also pleasantly surprised by Tennessee’s scenic beauty (there are some magnificent homes along the Tennessee River) and its low price level. In a bar in Knoxville, where a band (unfortunately without Dolly Parton) played hillbilly rock, a pint of excellent local draft beer cost just $2. In fact, I found wages for less-skilled workers in the US to be extremely low when compared to wages for similarly skilled workers in Switzerland and most of the EU.
…find out about this great, 4 season, low tax, semi-mountainous oasis!
During particularly rough winters I used to fantasize about relocating south, but to an area with 4 seasons. I liked NC because of its proximity to ocean. You make TN sound pretty appealing, though.
I in love w Carteret County near Emrald Isle
house of your dreams under 300k and 1200 taxes
I did a search after reading your post. Their website has a fun feature with a cursor that looks like a paintbrush. You can point and click as you “colorize” the canvas you have selected. This is a very cool way to kill time on the job, especially if you do graphics. The boss will think you are working:
http://www.crystalcoastnc.org/
If anything ever impedes our ability to run our air conditioners, you are going to see an exodus out of here that would make the Grapes of Wrath look like a college road trip.
Well that won’t happen unless the electrical grid goes, and then if won’t be safe anywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alright Hixson, spill it. You’re a realtor, yes?
Ya gotta love it.
“Condo Freefall” is the name of the article
http://www.dailybusinessreview.com/news.html?news_id=43542
oops , I miss the first post for this.
“One theory goes that Southwest Florida landlords cannot afford to lower their rents because of the spiraling cost of taxes and insurance.”
So much for rents increasing. A lot of speculators are going to come to understand the importance of cash flow. Appreciation is the gravy if you’re lucky.
This also means much more inventory will be on the market as well.
“Owning property has now become a liability instead of an asset, she said.”
This has been true for at least 2-3 years and a lot longer in the more bubbly areas. I love the fact that people are starting to talk like this. Too bad the “asset argument” has been so pervasive for so long.
home is an asset when prices are going up, liability when they are stable or going down.
when prices are going up yoou get a return on investment (PITI, maintenance, etc). Otherwise, you’re just feeding an alligator.
If there’s not a drastic resolution to this, I am going to liquidate and move to Tennessee,’ said Geenen, who has sold three of his eight rental houses in recent years.”
Mr. Geenen. Will there be anymore GF’s able to allow you to liquidate? I think the jacka$$ population of FL increased exponentially (questioned by lep)?
We were going to locate to Celebration next year, but 03-04 prices of around $139 sf have jumped to $250-300sf. Haven’t seen any rush to reduce even though some houses have sat on the market for a year and many, many more have joined the listed ranks. Does anyone see any movement there?
For the herald tribune, I have experienced both aspects, Laid off from Masco Contractors service in March, and probably is low. If you ever spent anytime in the new developments you know the percentage of illegals is well over 50% of the construction tradesman. framers, roofers, landscapers, painters, stucco, and a few plumbers and electricians.
As for rentals, I found a great deal on rental. A 3 BR, 2Ba w1cg, brand new condo, owner paid $326,000, I am renting for $1000.00 a month water, cable, WA/DR included.
It will get much worse before it gets better. IMHO
Rental property ownership IS NOT where its at right now. Wait for the foreclosures, price reductions and then you still offer WAY LESS than asking. Why? Taxes and insurance costs are always the killer. your P&I stays the same for 30 yrs (only way to buy investment property) but the other two sky rocket every year. And when you reach that break even point you sell below market. Since you bought it cheap, you can sell it cheap. Not too many places in USA meet this requirement. Either prices to high (CA, NV, AZ, FL) or not place to live Detroit, etc
Hi all, I want to move to sarasota, fl. What is the housing market really like there now and where is it going. Should I rent a home? Thanks