A Complete Disaster In Florida
The St Petersburg Times reports from Florida. “One in five U.S. homes entering the foreclosure process last month were located in Florida. It’s not the sort of ranking that makes you want to shout, ‘We’re No. 1!’ Mark Vitner, senior economist at Wachovia Corp., cites two key reasons why the state stands out today: An abundance of properties owned by speculators. The relative ease and speed with which mortgage lenders can obtain a court-ordered foreclosure here.”
“The onetime Jacksonville resident says he was surprised to learn, after the fact, just how much speculation took place in Florida during the recent boom. Many buyers told their lenders they planned to live in the homes they were buying. ‘The truth is, people lie,’ Vitner says.”
The Miami Herald. “A South Florida real estate broker Carlos Justo, flamboyant founder of Sol Sotheby’s International Realty, is in deep money trouble. Justo, who catered to millionaires and became one himself, says: ‘I am considering filing personal bankruptcy. I’m fighting for my financial life.’”
“He, along with some investors, lost $2.35 million in a deal at 3 Indian Creek Island, he says. He is in foreclosure on another property, where he now lives. He bought it in ‘05 for $6.85 million. The debt is around $11 million with interest. He’s trying to sell the house, for $14.9 million.”
“His timing was off, he admits. ‘The market is slowing down. Everybody knows what’s happening in the Miami market because of the condo oversupply. It’s going to be a bloodbath out there. You know what the buyers are saying? ‘Let me wait, why should I pay $10 million for a house when it might be down to $8 million in a year.’”
The Orlando Sentinel. “In April, the Orlando area’s median sales price for existing homes and condominiums sold through Realtors, had dipped year-over year by 2.77 percent, a relatively rare decline for home-sale prices in the area.”
“Sales by Realtors of homes and condos in the group’s core market, mainly Orange and Seminole counties, were down 45.46 percent to May 2006, the report stated.”
“The inventory of single-family homes and condos listed through Realtors, up 1,028 to 25,463 properties, (was) another record. That’s 40 percent more than a year ago and a 16.43 month supply at the recent, sluggish sales pace.”
“Property-tax relief can’t come soon enough for the lethargic home-resale market in the Orlando area. Realtors said they fear uncertainty over what state lawmakers may do to Florida’s property-tax system is contributing to the ongoing softness.”
“‘Everybody’s waiting to see what Tallahassee will do,’ said Randy Martin, president of the Orlando Regional Realtor Association.”
“Martin, an agent in Winter Park, said he has seen cases in the past year where people took a look at what their taxes would be if they sold and bought another home, and backed out when they realized their tax bill would double or triple when they lost their Save Our Homes tax-cap advantage.”
“‘That’s what’s trapping people, especially those who want to downsize,’ Martin said.”
“Martin warned that it now appears more likely the Federal Reserve will resume boosting short-term interest rates, adding upward pressure to the longer-term bond rates that are linked to home mortgage rates.”
“‘If those go up, it’s going to take more people out of the [home-buying] market,’ he said.”
From Time Magazine. “People have often said that Florida is the new California, but this week the Sunshine State hopes to really drive the point home, all the way into homeowners’ pockets.”
“On Tuesday the legislature started a special session to reform Florida’s dysfunctional property tax system, aiming to save residents the tens of billions of dollars that Californians reaped a generation ago.”
“In expensive markets like South Florida, for example, homeowners who have yet to qualify for a state property-tax cap say they’ve seen better than 100% increases over the past few years. It’s a large reason why, according to a new Zogby International poll, half of South Floridians and 37% of all Floridians say they’re considering moving out of the state.”
“When Sergio Martinez bought his 5-bedroom Miami house three years ago for $405,000, the taxes were only $2,800. But before he became eligible for the homestead cap last year, they’d jumped to $7,400.”
“His house is now valued at more than $900,000, and if he were to sell it, the new owner would be staring at an annual tax bill of almost $20,000.”
“‘That’s a big reason I’d have trouble finding a buyer for this house, and why I’d have trouble buying a new one here myself,’ says Martinez, who now works two jobs in order to pay his tax and insurance bills. Unless Martinez wants to leave South Florida, ‘I’m essentially in jail in my own house.’”
From Tampa Bay Newspapers. “Broker Karen Selby said residential real estate sales in Pinellas County are about 40 percent of what they were a year ago. ‘Taxes and insurance combined are putting (potential buyers) out of the ratio for getting approved,’ Selby said.”
“She hopes state leaders can come up with a solution as quickly as possible. ‘It’s anybody’s guess when it comes to our legislators,’ Selby said. ‘I hope they do something positive but I have my doubts. We need relief immediately.’”
“The area has lost 5,000 motel rooms in the past couple of years, not all mom-and-pop units. Such losses have a trickle-down effect on the economy, such as on sales tax collections, said Tony Satterfield, chairman of the Tampa Bay Beaches Chamber of Commerce.”
“The big culprit, Satterfield and others said, is that the Pinellas County Property Appraiser assesses property based on highest and best use, the use that will generate the highest net return to the property over a reasonable period of time.”
“‘Nobody should have to pay taxes on profits that haven’t been realized,’ Satterfied said.”
“Lizard Real Estate owner Liz Barrett had similar views. ‘It’s a complete disaster,’ Barrett said.”
“Mom-and-pop motels, which were the backbone of tourism in Florida, Barrett said, are all being run out of business. They are being taxed ‘as if there was already a six-story multimillion-dollar condo in their place.’”
“Property tax and insurance issues have affected the housing market seriously, Barrett said. ‘People who want to move and downsize can’t afford to because their property taxes will be too high because we don’t have the portability for homestead,’ she said.”
“An estimated 250 people, mostly Realtors, turned out for the three-hour forum May 28 hosted by the Pinellas Realtors Association. The real estate agents complained that ‘more people are leaving the state than moving here’ because of the state’s new reputation for high property taxes and scarcity of home insurance.”
“‘I see a $250,000 speed boat on the Intracoastal being used to catch people without their life jackets on,’ Kevin Hussey (said). ‘Something has to be done now. We read that the real estate market has slowed down. It’s worse. It’s on its knees.’”
“A billboard on interstates at Florida borders, facing south, should bear the message, ‘Will the last person out of Florida turn off the lights’ said Zapita Bukowsky of Seminole.”
I know members of the Florida media read here. Someone should point out that the huge run-up in home prices is what is really behind many of these Florida problems.
“Someone should point out that the huge run-up in home prices is what is really behind many of these Florida problems.”
Agreed! In Palm Beach County the problem goes much further than that. With a new Sherriff telling everyone he’s going to lay off deputies if he doesn’t get his $425 million budget passed, the waste becomes apparent. 600 new vehicles are in that budget when PBSO is running one of the newest fleets in law enforcement. Additionally, the deputies get to take these vehicles home and use them for personal use for the low cost of $40 per month. That’s beyond wasteful.
Another thing that grabbed me is the $8.4 million in pet projects allocated to each commissioner’s home disctrict that they won’t cut out of the budget. How can we sit and watch them use these scare tactics with facts like this staring us in the face?
“Another thing that grabbed me is the $8.4 million in pet projects allocated to each commissioner’s home disctrict that they won’t cut out of the budget.”
The $8.4 million is total cost of pet projects. Don’t want to mislead anyone.
Need a tax payer revolt for sure.
Be sure to go to any meetings on this to voice your opinion in addition to writing to the commissioners.
auger, on the news the other night, it was reported that one of the illegal devil-spawn gangs, Sur-13, just laid down the gauntlet to the Hillsborough County (where Tampa is located) Sheriff, David Gee. They used huge grafitti tags. Of course, Gee’s got some stones, so he responded with a massive roundup. I hope he continues to do so. So far, none of the politicians have tried to hold him back. And to Gee’s credit, I have yet to hear him threaten the citizens of Hillsborough with a cutback of law enforcement services.
I have a feeling the devil-spawns are not acquainted with the deep south’s methods concerning “undesirables”.
I also get the feeling that redneck justice is about to re-emerge.
Could David Gee clone himself and come to Pima County, Arizona? We could use a sheriff with stones here.
Don’t you guys have Joe Arpaio somewhere out there in AZ?
Arpaio is Maricopa County (Phoenix). Pima is south, on the Mexico border (Tucson)
Arpio has stones a plenty.
We don’t need no stinking new building. If our troops in Iraq can live in tents, than so can our prisoners in AZ. He’s also brought back the work gang of sorts. Uses them to keep roadsides free of weeds, trash and such and other comunity clean-up type projects.
Can he round up the gang memebrs and send them to Iran? I’ll chip in for the transportation costs.
Palmetto,
Just send up the flare if the SHTF. Those efffs are a boil on the publics a$$ that needs removed.
Chris
Arpaio is a publicity seeking idiot who has done nothing to reduce crime, or make the people of the county safer.
David Gee has some major stones. He’s kept a lid on this gang situation here in Hillsborough, if it weren’t for him, we’d be in a whole lot worse shape right now.
I’ve dealt with a couple of his deputies. Mistaken identity thing, they were looking for the former occupant of a residence I rented a while back. Everything was fine once things got straightened out, but until they did, it was rough. You do NOT want to mess with Gee’s deputies.
Most law-abiding citizens aren’t so forgiving after they have been roughed up by the police.
For those unfamiliar with phillygirl’s reference, rent the movie “Easy Rider.”
Hey, Mark, long time no see. How’ve you been? Believe me, I was plenty pissed about the encounter for a while afterward. But, it was one of those things. THEY knew I wasn’t the person they were after the minute I opened the door. I knew they were deputies even though they were in plain clothes with the car out of sight. But I sassed them about showing me some ID and wouldn’t let them in unless they did and that’s when things got ugly. What can I say? They woke me up too early in the AM.
But, Gee has done some things I really admire recently, so what the heck. Bygones.
Teachers are on strike in Quincy MA because the municipality wants them to absorb 20% of their health insurance costs instead of 10%.
They claim this will wipe out their 4-year 14% pay increase.
Boo fookin’ hoo…
Go work in the private sector and see what you get, you spoiled prima-donna’s.
Or maybe try self-employement with double SS levies, no vacation, no sick-leave buy-backs, and NO health insurance.
You could even be a licensed real estate appraiser who has been unable to raise his or her fees for 15 years due to the government regulatory boards glutting the professional with half-baked hacks.
The spoiled public sector parasites make me want to puke.
AMEN!
“AMEN!”
Listen, you can say what you want about teachers in the northeast. They are paid a lot better than those here in FL. In Palm Beach County a teacher makes $33K per year. It’s inappropriate to visit the tax cuts on people who are already underpaid and overburdened.
WHOA, not fair to teachers! Pay is incredibly low for what you do. Many teachers I know spend their own personal money on their students because their students are so poor they do not have the basics: pens, notebooks, backpacks… etc. A lot of teachers are struggling, making so little money in places like Florida, that they could qualify for FOOD STAMPS. Not to mention safety, there have been stabbings in the Orlando school I was in and shootings in Boynton Beach.
Why aren’t you complaining about CEO’s who make 5 million plus salary per year, as their employees struggle?
Seems like you have some personal issues with people who are in the teaching field. I don’t understand it, it is not as rosy as you think it is. If you believe it is so great/easy, why don’t you become a teacher?
Sorry. We will have to agree to disagree.
Ok, hd74, no more holding back. Tell us how you really feel.
“WHOA, not fair to teachers! Pay is incredibly low for what you do.”
Huh! Then how can my kid and the spouse, both teachers in the Pac NW, make it on just one salary? They save/invest the other one, own a house (original mortgage, no HELOC), and take the whole summer off to travel. Having no kids of their own helps, I know, but they’re doing quite well.
Oh, and still lovin’ the profession after a decade plus.
“Oh, and still lovin’ the profession after a decade plus. ”
You’ve just summed it up. They’ve done it for 10 years and they’re in the Pacific Northwest. Teachers start higher and make more. After just 7 years in the profession, there are districts in WA that pay well over $50,000. That’s for 9 working months. Carry it out over 12 months and instead it’s closer to $66,000…not so bad.
Now let’s look at Palm Beach County. That teacher makes $38,000. Take it out over 12 months and it’s right around $50,000. That’s not a lot of money for someone who’s been in their profession with a college degree for 7 years.
Seems like you have some personal issues with people who are in the teaching field. I don’t understand it, it is not as rosy as you think it is. If you believe it is so great/easy, why don’t you become a teacher?
—————————
Amen to that, Sam!!!
Can’t stand the whining and complaining from people who claim that govt jobs are so easy & overpaid, yet don’t (can’t?) get these jobs themselves!
If govt employment were all you “haters” claim it is, you’d be doing it.
Sorry, no sympathy.
What kind of an idiot buys a home at the top of the market in 2005 for 6.8 million and thinks he can sell it in this market for 14 million? The dunce then makes a comment about buyers wanting to wait for 10 million dollar homes to decline to 8 million. This was probably said to argue that his 14 millin dollar price could go down 20% but was still worth more than his purchase price.
For starters his 6.8 millin dollar home is probably worth 4 million or less. In reality this guy is not an idiot he is a complete con trying to spin his BS about the way he wants prices to be. Disgusting.
The article then tells us about a moron that paid for a house and was shocked whent his property taxes went up prior to his homesteading. The facts are your new tax basis is set by the last sale so homesteading has little to do with it. Did he think he would inherit the homestead exemption from the prior owner?
Each time there is a sale it is reset even with a homestead.
The answer to the property tax problem in Florida is that prices are going to plummet to levels of affordability. Tax rates need not change. Prices have to fall. There is no way around it.
The resets for property taxes are about 18 months after the normal sale. The scummy flippers hoped to unload on someone else prior to the reset. One very dishonest trick by realtors is to devulge the current property tax as if that will be the new tax. All the old rate tells you is how much the prior owner pays and gives you an idea of his initial costs of purchase. I have seen houses for sale with property taxes of $10,000. that would go to $50,000. once the new owner gets reset. No legislation is going to save that. Prices have to fall.
Now the flippers are stuck. They must pay the new tax rate since there are no bag holders left. I know a number of people in big homes that are on the edge of bankrupcy. With the recent law change, there is less protection in having a big house in a BK.
I am sorry to rant on so but it kills me the way these supposedly informative articles describe the problems of realestate and yet imply in devious ways that all is well..i.e. that idiots 6.8 million in 2005 purchase has higher value in 2007.
Buddy, I am totally with you on this. This idiot is just greedy and stupid. Period. The reporters are stupid and …irresponsible. The media treat their readership/audience as idiots and they are in on the deal for the ad money.
Too bad that this game is at the last round and in the process of shutting down.
Florida is falling apart under the weight of its lightness of being.
Well, the guys name is “Sol” and he has gold chains. That’s the kind of person who buys a 6.4 million dollar home and tries to resell it into a housing bust for $14 million. Live large, go bust and then rebuild. In five years, old Sol will be back on top of the world, I’m sure.
Smart money doesn’t put all its’ money in one basket. Don’t invest heavily in the area where you earn your money. Diversify or die.
Excellent analysis.
The whole problem w/ Florida now is the ridiculous runup in prices caused by speculators. Nobody wants to really admin that that is the true reason people are leaving. If homes were affordable, taxes wouldn’t be an issue at all.
The politicians and RE people are trying to adjust the taxes to keep the house of cards propped up longer. They think that if they tweak the system people will buy more homes, Northerners will come back, buy second homes and prices will go back up. That ain’t gonna happen. They will just delay the inevitible collapse and actually make it worse.
Maybe it’s gonna be one of those “cash back” mortgages…
How can you calculate to give a rough idea of what someone actually paid for their house based in their taxes?
Some of the properties I have looked at do not show on the county appraisers site what they paid for the house.
That math calculation would be quite handy for me.
Ben,
The runup in Florida only happened because everyone wants to move here and houses were undervalued for so long that it was ripe time for them to become fairly valued. At least that was the local media’s spin in 2004/2005, but now that economic fundamentals have again been proven, it’s property taxes that are hurting people, not the outrages $350,000 house that is 10x the average person’s wage, nowithstanding any other living costs (such as the new Escalade, plasma tv, etc)
“$350,000 house that is 10x the average person’s wage…”
Correction, a $350,000 house is about 7.5 times the average person’s wage. Median income in Palm Beach County is $45,062. $350K is also aobut median home price in the county.
Broward has median income of $41K
Orange $41K
Indian River $40K
Here we go again! The crybaby realtors who have never been in a downturn are playing the blame game on taxes and insurance. I live in Tampa Bay and have watched from 2003 - May 2006 the largest increase in home prices I have ever seen in my 22 years of living in the area. The root cause is home prices are totally out of line in comparision to wages and retiree incomes. The bottom line is affordability! The tax increases and insurance costs are only an add on due to the high costs of houses. Remove the high cost of a house and taxes and insurance decline. The blame falls into the laps of the realtors, mortgage brokers and speculators who drove the housing prices through the roof. Now they are blaming everybody but themselves for the mess they created. There is ample proof to pin this mess on the three groups I mentioned. Let them pay the ultimate price as they and their businesses fail. However, I would like to thank these groups for reducing the rush hour traffic due to people moving out of Florida!
“Remove the high cost of a house and taxes and insurance decline.”
WRONG ON BOTH COUNTS!
The county govts should have reduced the millage rate when assessments went through the roof, but they screwed the homeowners and took the windfall instead. When prices and assessed values go down, I can assure you they will adjust the millage rate upward to keep taxes where they are now.
As far as insurance is concerned, companies calculate the replacement cost of the structure (leaving out the land value) plus some risk factors to determine the premium. Replacement cost is their estimate of what it would cost to replace/rebuild if the structure is destroyed. Just because resale prices drop way down, it’s not going to affect the replacement cost that much.
In coming up with my insurance premium, my agent’s “calculator” did not ask how much I paid for the house or its assessed value. It just wanted square footage, exterior finish (wood vs brick for example), type of roof, and how far from a fire station.
Good luck Florida. I think you’re stuck with high taxes and insurance forever.
Wrong! Insurance companies base their replacement costs on current material costs per square foot to rebuild a house. Those costs have had a significant drop, i.e cost to build now as compared to 2004 and 05. I’m not stuck with the high cost of insurance or taxes because I cashed out. My problem now is keeping track of all of that wonderful money I made off of some greedy person who tried to flip my houses, but got stuck! That was a realtor!
…An estimated 250 people, mostly Realtors, turned out for the three-hour forum … ….The real estate agents complained that ‘more people are leaving the state than moving here’ …
Wait a second! Stop the horses!
Now wasn’t this the same group that just a year ago or so
were claiming (and often quoted on this blog) that thousands
of people per month were moving *into* Florida?
Yo! Florida media! I’m a native Floridian (Old Fart from the 1940s) and I am in Georgia at this moment looking at homes because I could not handle the taxes and insurance associated with changing homes in Florida. Because the politicians did not prioritize reductions in spending, I concluded that there is no hope for folks in my league and I am bailing out. Too bad — I loved Florida. As I hear it, the Yankees are not coming south to take my (collective) place, as you all had so gleefully predicted a few years back.
Soon’s you teach people how to unelect those wrong-headed politicians, I might think about “coming home,” but I doubt I’ll be alive by then.
The moving van arrives on Tuesday and we’re outta here. We’re leaving south Florida and moving out of state. We’ve been renting for the past two years so home prices, taxes and insurance aren’t huge issues for us but it is still expensive here and the school’s are horrible, crime is high, people are rude, the traffic’s a mess and the weather is highly over rated. All in all, there’s no much to recommend it. “Paradise?” Y’all can have it.
Someone should point out that the huge run-up in home prices is what is really behind many of these Florida problems.
—————————–
And California problems…and New York problems…and Texas problems…
Thank you, Ben, for making the point that so few seem to get. It’s not the prop taxes that are too high, it’s the price that those taxes are based on.
So many people assume prices are static and that it’s everything else needs to be changed. Just another sign of the mania!
‘The O’Sullivan’s Irish Restaurant lights are out, the parking lot is empty and the mail is piling up at the door. In about a one month time-span, North Fort Myers saw O’Sullivan’s, Hurricane Harry’s and Foxfire Grill, all of which are within a mile of each other, shut down.’
‘The effect came down on us. The housing market is down, gas is up and people are not going to go out. They’re going to save money. We got the brunt of it,’ said former O’Sullivan’s owner Alan Rash.’
wow
FL used to be the steady state w retirees
this is big
For every a$$hat who is getting his comeuppance from this disaster, there are probably two or more “innocent bystanders” who will suffer as well. Even if they didn’t HELOC to the max and still have equity, how can they continue to pay their taxes and insurance? And there’s no one out there they can sell to. Like the one guy quoted in the article, they truly are in jail in their own houses.
FL used to be the steady state w retirees
They are leaving now, if they can get out, to go back north to the northern socialist/welfare states like Mazzholeland where the health care system is better.
Over 55 are the only developments which are bein’ brought on line around here.
The retired gentry and yuppie NIMBY DINKS here in Mazzholeland sure the fook don’t want people with children, especially immigrants with special need requirements coming to reside in their towns.
The migration is on.
Awe, c’mon, just last year they were reporting that 1,000 people per day move to Florida. Another NAR myth bites the dust…
I just moved out of Fl to GA and I can say that it was the best move. Florida will be one of those states that will become today and in the future a model for economic no-no’s. The problem goes beyond just what people are paying for taxes and insurance. It is the lack of true industry and attraction for major corporations to fund employment within the state. Companies with varying salary levels are not entering the state of Florida but have instead left. With the high cost of housing(which even with the downturn is not seeing real price decreases) and the lack of good paying jobs, even changes in the tax laws are not going to be enough to jump start the market. Too many Floridians are hearing of greener pastures in other states and retirees have already abandoned the state since Wilma. Too many cities and counties have come to rely on that pot of gold created by the property tax system and changes of 0-10% in someone’s property taxes is not going to amount to much of savings. Insurance can still go up and the schools are exempt from changes(they hae already received at 7.2% increase in their budget to be passed on to property owners). The state is focusing that property tax reform is going to make all the difference in the world..it isn’t..the economy of a state is not only controled by housing but needs to be feed with employment that provides disposable income that can be dispersed into the economy to keep businesses small and large going and provide salaries that will match up with the cost of living…Florida just doesn’t get it….
Gosh. Where will the sheeple get their $17 plate of nachos now and the $7.50 beer to wash it down with now?
I can’t speak for those places but we eat out a lot less because restaurant prices got out of hand in the past few years.
Oh yes. I would say that prices have jumped 50% in just 3 years. The silver lining is that when you do go out there usually isn’t a line at the door anymore.
“‘I see a $250,000 speed boat on the Intracoastal being used to catch people without their life jackets on,’ Kevin Hussey (said). ‘Something has to be done now. We read that the real estate market has slowed down. It’s worse. It’s on its knees.’”
Can anyone explain the causal relationship in the above statements? Are people leaving (and real estate crashing) because they’re afraid they’ll get tickets for not wearing lifeejackets?
I think what they’re saying is that state and local governments are spending money like Mike Tyson in his prime. Here in Boca Raton, the police have 31′ Intrepid center consoles as their intracoastal cruisers, looking for Hanibel Lechter-equivalent lifejacket violators and the scumbags with expired flares. Mostly bikini patrol. Intrepids are about the nicest and most expensive center consoles out there, maybe twice the price of the average. It’s equivalent to having a Bentley as your police cruiser. I’d love one, but cannot afford it. No issue if using taxpayer money, though.
Palm Beach has its fair share of drug and migrant smuggling activity. These high-powered boats help to augment the federal law enforcement agencies (e.g., I.C.E. and Coast Guard) in intercepting these waterbourne threats to homeland security. You need to fight fire-power with fire-power. These vessels do more than cite citizens for safety violations, you just might not care to notice…
Drugs are more available, cheap, and concentrated than ever. Shop as usual, and avoid panic buying.
Intrepids are not as fast as some other center consoles half the price, they’re just nicer, and a status symbol. Perhaps we should give the Boca police Ferraris to chase down the bad guys too.
YES we are #1….
I think he was bitchin about spendin 250K by govt. to do a job a 10k boat could do….
And that 250k boat is just one visible example of waste by local gov. Peek behind the curtain to see the sweetheart deals that local politicos swing with their buddies, and there might be a taxpayer revolt.
You should not underestimate the power of the people who live off of the tax dole. State and local employees, the businesses they contract with, it adds up. Lets put it this way - there is NOT going to be much tax relief in Florida because a LOT of people are living large off that money and they don’t want to give up even a penny of it.
South fla counties will have to cut down and layoffs will happen.
There is no way a vegetating group of employees earning off the working stiff, sometime w/ better benefits, model going to work.
Give it time.
The “working stiff” doesn’t vote. The people living off the taxes hold the power. I predict that, given time, the taxes in Florida will increase from here. Layoffs of government worker? Not gonna happen.
They can only tax so far. If the taxpayers can’t revolt, they’ll vote with their feet.
They’re talking about the wasteful spending. He’s saying that property tax needs to be lowered, and that wasteful spending should be cut.
You should not underestimate the power of the people who live off of the tax dole.
Around here, these POS public parasites are building Taj Mahal town offices to suit their ego’s.
I always find it interesting that whenever I go to an assessor’s office they ALWAYS have state of the art equipment far better than I could ever afford.
But the system’s entrenched because the US now has an acquiescent public all drawing a check from some level of
government.
The only solution is to vote with your feet.
Great time to be a renter.
Perhaps the analogy is that if a high-priced rescue at taxpayer expense is OK to save dumb boaters and swimmers, it’s desireable to engineer a high-priced bailout at taxpayer expense to save realtors.
I run the Chain Of Lakes here in Winter Haven, Polk County, FL all the time. Probably two days a week in my Aquasport 20′.
Polk Sheriffs just bought a Pathfinder center console 22′ with twin Mercury Verado 125’s for “patrolling”. What a waste of engines and fuel to patrol a smaller, inland chain of canal-joined lakes…..nobody else out here even has anything close. Their setup is so over the top it looks stupid….I could understand if it was Tampa Bay…
Hands down, they have the nicest boats and personal watercraft on the chain….they sit in the weeds with waverunners and binoculars trying to catch people drinking beer. Meanwhile, daylight home invasions and strong armed parking lot robberies are soaring here..
I understand and respect the law, but they can be Draconian in Florida.
Reminds me of a few months ago, I drove up to Salt Lake to take my dog for a follow-up (eye surgery), 700 miles round trip, all in one day, drove like a bat outta hell, saw others doing even worse, saw a case of road rage, almost got creamed by a truck, then got 1/2 mile from home and got pulled over by a Colo. State Trooper because the light was out on my rear license plate. LOL (no ticket).
Do you happen to have a long grey beard, wear a turbin and your name has the word Rajasthani in it somewhere?
The light out in your truck gave the trooper probable cause to stop you. I’ve stopped many vehicles for the same reason and the driver was drunk (past career). It amounted to one less drunk driver off the road! Now I am looking for the illegal activities in the housing market!
Drinking beer and not wearing a life jacket bring in revenue in the form of fines. Bugulars and robbers cost money, because of long investigations, prisons and parole officers. Like many other things, law enforcement is driven by the bottom line.
Yeah, all cops are good for is writing tickets. We had a belligerant neighbor accost our teenage daughter once. I called the cops and they were very indifferent to our problem. The solution was to “sic” our German Shepherd on the nutty neighbor the next time he accosted our daughter. Worked like a charm, he hasn’t been back.
NY cops have a mixed rep., but I like them. It’s a miserable, dangerous job, dealing with the worst of the city. Never found them rude so much as smart azzes. If they can’t help you, sometimes it’s the law that ties their hands, not their willingness.
“I see a $250,000 speed boat on the Intracoastal being used to catch people”
The boat was probably confiscated in a drug bust.
“real estate market has slowed down. It’s worse. It’s on its knees.”
That’s as good as ‘I lov the smell of napalm in the morning’.
“real estate market has slowed down. It’s worse. It’s on its knees.”
Cue the “Deliverance” Dueling Banjos music.
WELL LIKE UM GEEZ SERGIO…Lower your price to $800K, and GET OUT OF JAIL YOU MORON!
This way you give the new owner some breathing space and he can fight for a lower assessment……THINKING is so hard to do in America today
=============================
When Sergio Martinez bought his 5-bedroom Miami house three years ago for $405,000, the taxes were only $2,800. But before he became eligible for the homestead cap last year, they’d jumped to $7,400.”
“His house is now valued at more than $900,000, and if he were to sell it, the new owner would be staring at an annual tax bill of almost $20,000.”
“‘That’s a big reason I’d have trouble finding a buyer for this house, and why I’d have trouble buying a new one here myself,’ says Martinez, who now works two jobs in order to pay his tax and insurance bills. Unless Martinez wants to leave South Florida, ‘I’m essentially in jail in my own house.’
The tax bill obviously has an impact on the market value of a home, in light of the fact that the new owner would have to shoulder $20,000 / year in order to maintain ownership status.
GS:
Yes and these people just LOVE to be in jail with a Noose around their neck. All for the Pride of “Home Ownership”
I finally agree this is going to get very ugly. Sergio can see the writing on the wall, but can’t get up the ballz to take the next step and sell for less then FULL price…….and become a low life “renter” again.
Someone on this blog once made a comment about owning a house and being tied to that one particular piece of earth. I’ve been living in my truck (camper shell w/ a bed in it), basically camping out, for several weeks now (having sold my house), trying to find a suitable self-contained camper and pickup to buy and wait out the housing crash (when I’ll pay cash for a house) - I’ve been all over the place, going from resort areas in Utah to Colorado, and I can really say I’m starting to feel the freedom that comes with not owning (I’ve never rented, even in college I owned my own place). I was sort of nervous about this, even though I’ve spent lots of time camping (used to be an archaeologist), but I always had a home base. Now, I see cool houses and feel nervous that I could get stuck again. If I get tired of being a gypsy I’ll just rent. It’s a totally awesome feeling to not have all the financial responsibilities that go with a house. I know most people can’t do this (kids, jobs, etc., I’m a writer/publisher so can be anywhere), but it is very revealing as to what our societal values are regarding property ownership and security and how these values drive our lives. Most people are totally unaware that an entire world exists out there for people who aren’t glued to a particular piece of property. This blog once had a thread about how the housing crash would hurt people’s job mobility. I’ve heard the stats about how mobile we are (or used to be - the average person moves every 4 years) and it’s always seemed that we were lacking the constancy and stability our parents had, always staying in the same place. There’s truth in that, no doubt, but for now, it’s really great to have the freedom of choice. I’m beginning to think it may be a questionable trade - owning and staying put (although that can be good while you’re raising kids) versus renting and changing jobs when you want or just up- or down-grading when you want to spend more/less.
lost in utah,
I LOVE what you’re stepping in.
We sold in 05, moved to the top floor of our business (after some renovation), to “wait it out”. But the longer we are here, completely enjoying the many benefits, we are coming to conclusion buying again is…silly. When I want a hit of ocean, I’ll rent a beach house for a couple of months. When I want to ski, I’ll head to the mountains.
When I need some city life, I’ll stay at some very fine hotels, given my debt-free, live-on-the-interest bank accounts. We think we’ll just sample all that different locales have to offer…and just keep the capital.
Disclosure - I still own a house with my brother, but we’re putting it on the market today, so I’ll have even more cash to put into CDs and live on. And like you pointed out, Catherine, it may be silly to ever buy again.
Too late.
Lost, I have a couple of former neighbors who are doing what you are. They sold their house back in summer ‘05, rented for a while, and now they’re living fulltime in an RV. Having the time of their lives as they live/work on the road.
I’m beginning to think it may be a questionable trade - owning and staying put (although that can be good while you’re raising kids) versus renting and changing jobs when you want or just up- or down-grading when you want to spend more/less.
I spent my 20s and 30s renting, changing jobs, and moving around as I felt like it. It was great.
But, now I’m in my (very early
) 40s, have a young son and would like to plant roots. Perhaps when my son is grown, I may get the itch to become mobile again but that’s a good 15+ years away.
I’m having similar thoughts. I’m seeing those big 150k diesel motorhomes getting sold relatively cheap by FBs (who should really think about dumping their house instead) and it makes a person think about just paying cash for one and renting a parking spot with full utilities. Then if/when TSHTF you unhook a few connections and use the 120 gallons of fuel capacity to go somewhere you’d rather be. The fact is my 6yo son would have no problem with it, it’s the wife (the same one who made “FB” part of my name, grrrr) who would have a fit if I told her that was our new “home” for a while.
I used to think the same way…but, I gotta tell ya, it’s wonderful being able to do what I want to do and go where I want to go without damage to my budget.
That said, our kids are all out of the house, and I’m sure I would have felt differently when they were “home”.
I just love the freedom we have now. And it’s not just the financial advantages…it’s a disconnecting from the whole “stuff” way of life. I’d much rather be kayaking in Alaska then mowing a lawn and paying taxes.
My family and I started RV’ing after having sold all our RE in late 04. We bought a diesel pusher motor home and trailer our jeep. Having a great time dodging RE and state taxes while getting to see the country. It’s been very educational for our daughter as well since we get to see all the national parks and historical sights. It’s very liberating as well, highly recommended.
Wow, sounds like a great lifestyle. I’ve contemplated it for a while. The problem is this - societal pressures. My parents and friends just would never understand, but then again, a good friend would. I hate the pressure that we are all ingrained to live a certain lifestyle, stay in a job because of ‘x’ reason, etc. My mini-freedom lifestyle is taking monthly trips to the Caribbean, without cell phone, and without telling anyone where I am going. You should see the looks on people’s faces when I first told them my plan, as if it needs some kind of approval from above.
IN short, sorry for the ramble, but I greatly appreciate what you are doing and hope that one day I have the courage to do it as well. This 9-5 job is suffocating me, and slowly taking away any creativity.
“Freedom’s just another word
for nothing left to lose.”
Excellent quote, Bill!
Always loved that line/song.
I pay $7800/yr to live in a nice apartment only 5 minutes from work. On top of that, I have personal security with two cops living next to me. I can’t even imagine paying $20K/yr in property taxes alone.
I imagine he’s like so many other “owners” here in South Florida; he can’t reduce his price because of the HELOC he took out on his home — money that was p!ssed away on fancy cars, boats, and plasma televisions.
You hit the nail right on the head…
There’s no “eligibility wait” for Homestead. His taxes were NEVER $2,800. The second he paid $405K, his taxes were going to be $7,400. There’s no way around it, and he should have known that. It was the previous owner, who paid much less and was homesteaded, that paid $2,800. Why can’t even Time Magazine reporters to ANY fact checking? Are they all idiots?
Sorry SFC for stepping on your toes. I posted a similar comment before refreshing the page and seeing that you’d beat me to the punch. My post hasn’t shown up yet, so maybe Ben deleted it (I hope).
Florida Homestead Exemption is only $25,000…..not a whole lot of money saved when you are talking about taxes on a $ 405,000 home
Actually, there is a time that you file on a yearly basis and a deadline for filing for any particular tax year.
I don’t own, so maybe somebody else can chime in.
Are they all idiots?
YES! They’re “reporters” or “journalists”, which means they know absolutely nothing about the actual topic they’re covering. One more reason why the MSM is becoming irrelevant.
Same is done here in MD all the time. The tax quote is the current owners. The new owner then gets a HUGE bill, throw that in on top of IO, ARM reset and our power co (BGE) new 50 - 72% higher electric rates and POP!!!
No way his taxes were $2,800 on a 400k property. He’s confusing the prior owner’s tax rate with his own: a common error caused by owner/realtor deception (quoting the current owner’s tax bill instead of what the new owner will get stuck with). How dumb can people be? Realtors are required by law to inform potential buyers what THEIR tax bill will be, but obviously many ignore this law, even though the buyer is supposed to sign a document stating that he is aware of what his tax bill will be. Did this idiot’s realtor forge his signature?
Florida’s tax rates can be quite high (up to 3% in some areas), but if properties were priced fairly, not absurdly, most people would not have huge property taxes.
sounds like a new black box item
the RE taxes at the NEW PRICE
that will hurt
if he bought in 2004 for $405k, he is dreaming that it would be 900k..
could be ~500k and on the way to 2002-03 prices of 375k.
mortgage rates have jumped ~10% in this month, meaning the asset (house) valuation has to be reduced accordingly.
I love how this guy “thinks” his house is worth $900K I just sold in FLorida and I thought my house was worth $900K too..Did I sell it for that…OF COURSE NOT…I too bought at 445K that went up in value but I really wanted out..and I didn’t equity line my house at all…so I lowered more than anyone else selling my model home and got it sold…Yes the person coming in is going to have to pay $17-18K in taxes(by the way on the 900K it is about $18-19K in taxes) but the person who bought the house was looking in that price range and knew what they were getting into. Chances are this guy is overrating his house and need to lower the price..someone looking to buy is looking for the best deal right now..no matter what price range they are in..
“His timing was off, he admits. ‘The market is slowing down. Everybody knows what’s happening in the Miami market because of the condo oversupply. It’s going to be a bloodbath out there. You know what the buyers are saying? ‘Let me wait, why should I pay $10 million for a house when it might be down to $8 million in a year.’”
We haven’t read any tales of woe from SD investers stuck with multimillion-dollar alligators they can’t sell, but it is only a matter of time, IMO. Of 12,256 SFRs currently on the MLS, 2140 (17.5 percent) are listed at $1m+. And then there are 130 “new home communities” in SD county, many of which offer never-lived-in “mid-tier” homes from $1.5m+. Most millionaires I know are already owner occupants, so under the working hypothesis that many of these recently-built multi-million dollar homes are investor-owned, I am wondering how they expect to find buyers?
It’s different this time, remember. I’m sure that buyer will show up soon on a white horse dressed in shineing armor soon.
Maybe we need to start cloneing buyers, but please no serin types.
Why is GoDaddy involved in the Casey Serin saga?
This guy (Carlos Justo) is priceless.
“He bought it in ‘05 for $6.85 million. The debt is around $11 million with interest. He’s trying to sell the house, for $14.9 million.”
and quoted as saying, “‘You know what the buyers are saying? ‘Let me wait, why should I pay $10 million for a house when it might be down to $8 million in a year.’”
Carlos, Carlos, that’s called “shooting yourself in your own foot”. Don’t explain to potential GF’s why they SHOULDN’T buy your property….
…and it also puts the lie to the conventional wisdom that the high-end market is immune to egregious price run-ups.
a couple mil here, a couple there…you know the rest.
“…immune to egregious price run-ups.”
Not immune to precipitous price run-downs, either…
“An estimated 250 people, mostly Realtors, turned out for the three-hour forum May 28 hosted by the Pinellas Realtors Association. The real estate agents complained that ‘more people are leaving the state than moving here’ because of the state’s new reputation for high property taxes and scarcity of home insurance.”
I thought the line is 1,000 people move to Florida every day. School enrollments are declining big time, moving companies move more people out than in recently, — I would love to see some recent, accurate population comparisions for the last few years.
A couple of numbers bandied about by our Pravda (peoples reporters against verifiable data, always) teams of old media, that stopped trying, long ago…
7,000 people move to Vegas a month
30,000 people move to F el lay a month
The “if they print it, it must be true, school of journalism.”
Just wanted to give props for the cold war Pravda reference…brought back memories!
Many are not leaving because of property taxes and insurance; they’re leaving because they can’t afford houses–including the ones many bought with zero-down liar loans–and they’re looking for somewhere else to set up shop. often with ruined credit. For decades Florida was Mecca for criminals and every form of scum; maybe now they’ll go somewhere else.
These realtors are living in dream-land, as usual. Property values here are artificial and ridiculous, and only fools would buy into a bogus, depreciating market.
I see this argument all the time: “Floridians aren’t leaving because of x, they’re leaving because of y.” “No, they’re not! They’ve leaving because of z!”
For us, it was a combination of x+y+z. x= 2005’s median SFH in PBC reached $420K (about 10 times the median household income). y= property taxes hover a bit over 2% of purchase price (making the median property tax around $8000). z= skyrocketing homeowner’s insurance on the heels of record-breaking 2004 and 2005 hurricane seasons (this runs anywhere from $3500-$12,000+ per year, depending on many factors, but probably averages around $5 or 6K).
Do the math: $2100/mo. mortgage for a $360K loan at 5.75%. That’s an old-fashioned 30 year fixed with no hanky-panky. Another $1100 per month taxes and insurance. That’s $3300 per month carrying costs for a smallish 3 or 4 bedroom house. And we’d have to earn a bare minimum of $120K (3 times the median household income in FL) to afford that!
The only reason people have been able to buy houses in SFL for the past 4 years or so is because lending standards were loosened to the point all you had to do to qualify for a huge loan was to fog a mirror. Now the easy money is gone, and there’s going to be a long, loud whistling sound as the air is let out of this incredibly over-inflated market. I am so glad we got out of there in time.
Most people pay more in property taxes than I pay a year in rent. What is wrong with that picture? Is renting really so bad, or are us renters still too poor and stupid to buy and missing the bus to freedom at the same time?
Mark Vitner, senior economist at Wachovia Corp., cites two key reasons why the state stands out today: An abundance of properties owned by speculators. The relative ease and speed with which mortgage lenders can obtain a court-ordered foreclosure here.”
“The onetime Jacksonville resident says he was surprised to learn, after the fact, just how much speculation took place in Florida during the recent boom. Many buyers told their lenders they planned to live in the homes they were buying. ‘The truth is, people lie,’ Vitner says.”
If he was suprised by this he should be fired.
It was his job to be a senior economist for the bank and know what was going on. Here is a prime example of how the media should not just cut and past comments just because the person calls himself and ’senior economist’.
Just like many economists I know, they are of the same cloth that the housing bubble really had economic truths to it. No matter how much data proves otherwise, he who hath a vested interest (homeowners) into keeping the boom alive won’t shoot it down.
“Property-tax relief can’t come soon enough for the lethargic home-resale market in the Orlando area. Realtors said they fear uncertainty over what state lawmakers may do to Florida’s property-tax system is contributing to the ongoing softness.”
Is this the new, ‘wait until after the superbowl’, ‘the spring bounce is about to happen’, or the ‘weather was the problem’. The next big moment the RE industry is waiting for is ‘tax relief’. It will get some press and then the reality will set back in, no bounce.
“It will get some press and then the reality will set back in, no bounce.”
If substantial tax cuts are approved and implemented, it will delay the misery. There WILL be a bounce in my opinion. People holding out will buy in and those who didn’t get burned bad enough speculating in round 1 will buy in. They will deplete inventory and prices will level out. Then they’ll realize it wasn’t enough and flood the market once again.
The only positive spin I can put on my view of things is these new buyers will at least have to throw some money down and provide documentation. It won’t mushroom as bad as before.
The tax money is already spend and then some. Any “relief” will be minimal.
“The tax money is already spend and then some.”
Budgets will have to be adjusted. Money’s not spent until the check is written.
Remember, that adjustment will have a negative impact on employment and work for the private sector. If government cuts infrastructure and building projects it will affect the private sector work load as well. I have nothing against some tax reform, but it will hit the Florida economy at a time when the economy is already under attack.
I don’t see it happening. Tax cuts are fairly unpopular with politicians. What bogles my mind is why we even need a “Save our homes” exemption. I mean ALL properties should have an anual tax increase of around 3%. That translates into about a 3% budget increase for the state & municipalities. That’s what everybody else has to make due on, why not our state government?
“I don’t see it happening. Tax cuts are fairly unpopular with politicians.”
So is insurance rate reform. That got passed come hell or high water. Charlie is not a do nothing governor. For better or worse, his agenda gets passed.
Hey..I don’t know about you..but I NEVER got my insurance refund from the so called “insurance reform” passed. Most people I know got a INCREASE from the insurance company…and let’s not forget that former GOV Jeb Bush gave the insurance companies a allowable up to 50% INCREASE before he left office. So GOV Charlie’s insurance refund of 5-20% amounted to a INCREASE for most Floridians.. NOT A DECREASE….and if you check the new tax reform SCHOOL’s are EXEMPT..they have already been given their increase of 7.2% to be passed on to property owners…so don’t get all excited about property tax reform until you see the bottom line number on your tax bill for 08.
“Hey..I don’t know about you..but I NEVER got my insurance refund from the so called “insurance reform” passed.”
Not a refund, a decrease from the already increased rates. And it’s there. Even insurance companies that didn’t buy from the state reinsurance fund cut rates to a certain extent. They also increased building code discounts. Listen, the high rates you’re complaining about aren’t high enough. If they were companies would be lined up around the block to take your money. The fact that they are not should tell you something.
And for my rate…just so we know where we stand:
December 06 to 07: $1949
If rates do not change ‘07 to ‘08: $1400
the 2 -item plan under consideration will not work..
2nd item will not be approved in ballot as SOH home owners would not like it..
as to 1st, it doesn’t do anything.
The food was very bad at those places and prices were ridiculous. Not to mention the service was horrible too. I noticed 3 other resturants downtown closed for lunch also. I rent so I can afford to find the good places to eat and quit or move at anytime from FL.
“Justo, who catered to millionaires and became one himself”
Financial genius = short memory + rising trend
I’m surprised no one commented on Carlos Justo
“He is in foreclosure on another property, where he now lives. He bought it in ‘05 for $6.85 million. The debt is around $11 million with interest. He’s trying to sell the house, for $14.9 million.”
So he knows the market is tanking hugely but he still hopes to sell his albatross for more than double for what he paid for it two years ago.
If he bought in 05 for $6.85, how is his debt $11 now. Was this a seriously negative ARM?
I like how he estimates he has a net worth of $2 to $3 million — but wants to declare bankruptcy (and wishes he did a year ago).
Sol — if you need to declare bankruptcy, it’s because your obligations outweigh your assets. Which is it?
Well, ol’ Carlos Justo is the “mastermind” behind Sol Sotheby’s in Miami. He was the clown who was the focus of a short TV series not too long ago. I forgot the name of it. The guy was jet set and thought he was a genius. I mean, he’s a realtor. Where’s the genius in selling a house? The house sells itself. No one is going to talk me into purchasing a home I dislike. Every realtor thought they were a genius during the boom. Oh, how the mighty fall.
“‘Will the last person out of Florida turn off the lights’ said Zapita Bukowsky of Seminole.”
I remember when somebody put up a sign outside Miami saying “Will the last Anglo out of Miami turn off the lights,” and some pissed Anglo painted through “turn off the lights” and painted in “please flush.”
Here is the gem of the day:
“He bought it in ‘05 for $6.85 million. The debt is around $11 million with interest. He’s trying to sell the house, for $14.9 million.”
What a monumental ass. He probably paid three times what the place was worth, and then managed to double his debt, and now he’s trying to sell it for almost 15 million dollars: maybe six times its actual worth, and twice what he paid for it only two years ago at the height of the bubble. With people like this overrunning Florida, how can sanity ever return?
If the citizens want their money to be wisely spent, they need to throw out all their city council members and county commissioners, and start over.
from 405,000 to 900,000? in miami. what neighborhood and what is the real value of this property. his taxes are less that 3% of the value of the home. the people in florida b**** so much about taxes, complain about insurance. there is alot of people that dont have insurance down here. it is everyone in florida’s fault.
i was reading mish and he said this is the beginning of the bottom. we havent seen the bank sale the foreclosures yet! 2008 is going to be unreal!
We also haven’t seen any bank failures yet! I haven’t see anything about “non-preforming loans”‘.
Bank sales of homes? Your not at the bottom until the bank itself is closed and out of business. Starting in August, the resets jump from $25 billion per month to $50 billion per month, and climb from there through the rest of the year. This year is preamble; in 2008 things will really get rolling. Remember that you haven’t hit bottom until EVERYONE has sworn off real estate as an investment, there are no buyers at all, we are back to 1960’s level of Real Estate Agent employment, you can only get a 30 year mortgage with 20% down, etc. We aren’t even at the beginning of the downward slope yet. Wait until 2009 - people will wish it was 2007….
You will know know your at the bottom when banks have failed and you start seeing this bumper sticker on the back of beat up pickup trucks ” Dear god, please grant us another housing boom, this time we won’t piss the money away.”
I had that exact thought the other day and forgot to post it. Whoever made those post-oil-boom stickers in Texas should just start printing these now…
There is no capitulation yet, we have just started to see price reductions. We are going to get 50-80% off peak pricing in the future. Wait for it.
“He bought it in ‘05 for $6.85 million. The debt is around $11 million with interest. He’s trying to sell the house, for $14.9 million.”
“His timing was off, he admits. …”
Debt of $11 mil on a home bought for $7 mil in ‘05, and he’s trying to sell for $15 mil but can’t. The simple problem was the TIMING. Just the TIMING was off, that’s all! If his TIMING was just a little better everything would be AOK and he’d get his $11 mil. Mr. Carlos Justo is a f@$#ing genius.
Is this the new, ‘wait until after the superbowl’, ‘the spring bounce is about to happen’, or the ‘weather was the problem’. The next big moment the RE industry is waiting for is ‘tax relief’. It will get some press and then the reality will set back in, no bounce.
A lot of homes in Florida and other resort areas were bought as “second homes.” We all know there has been a great deal of lender tightening for subprine and Alt-A loans. Are second home loans still easy to get? Can you still get a no-money down loan for a second home?
There will only be “symbolic” tax relief. There isn’t one member of the Florida legistlature that is willing to give up even one penny of revenue. What are they going to do, jack up the sales tax to the moon and lower property taxes? Maybe tax income? Set up 1,000,000 casinos across the state and legalize prostitution? Given that the legislature cannot and will not cut spending, there are no options for Florida.
“When Sergio Martinez bought his 5-bedroom Miami house three years ago for $405,000, the taxes were only $2,800. But before he became eligible for the homestead cap last year, they’d jumped to $7,400.”
“His house is now valued at more than $900,000, and if he were to sell it, the new owner would be staring at an annual tax bill of almost $20,000.”
“‘That’s a big reason I’d have trouble finding a buyer for this house, and why I’d have trouble buying a new one here myself,’ says Martinez, who now works two jobs in order to pay his tax and insurance bills. Unless Martinez wants to leave South Florida, ‘I’m essentially in jail in my own house.’”
OR YOU CAN SELL FOR 700K and make 300K instead of 500K, and get the hell out! Idiot………
I talked to some folks in SFL within the past few days and quite frankly they sound outright despondent. And only one is trying to sell a house! I think they may need to add some anti-depressants to the water. The problems down there are in three dimensions at this point.
A friend just sold her house near Palm Beach - she was very happy to get out of it, no profit, but no loss. She said the buyer used a 100% ARM loan, so the toxic loans are still around (the closing was last week).
BP,
We have a workgroup metting in Tampa next week. My boss called today and said NO talk of RE in the meeting. He is 100% in agreement about the runup but i guess some people i work with are pretty screwed…He just wants a smooth meeting with no heart attacks :).
Chris
That’s pretty funny, imo. I can’t imagine having the boss calling all the resident bubble sitters up and telling them not to gloat at the upcoming meeting so as to maintain relative calm amongst the FB’s. You should at least show up with a “I’m a renter” coffee mug or something.
ROFLMAO! Love it, auger!!!
Not everyone is despondent. I live in Broward County. I cashed out and sold in early 2005 and have been renting ever since. I’m downright giddy at all the news down here.
Still, there are grumpy homeowners down here. I no longer mention RE at home or in my social circles. Thankfully, there’s Ben’s blog where it’s okay to enjoy watching the market crumble.
LOL!
Haven’t you heard ? We’re running out of water in SoFl!
Gonna have to dry swallow those pills.
The current tax legislation being hammered out in Tallahasee requires voter approval. The terms include the removal of the save our homes amendment, that only allows government to raise taxes 3% per year on homesteaded properties. The new rules would allow us to pay the same taxes we would have paid, UNLESS the politicians overide it!!!! There’s no way, even here in the confused land of the hanging chad, that will pass. It would require more than 60% of us to believe that the same folks who took the huge tax revenue increases of the past 5 years and wasted them, could be trusted going forward. I think it will result in records for election day voting and percentage defeated. So that will get us into next Spring with nothing done regarding taxes.
“Martin warned that it now appears more likely the Federal Reserve will resume boosting short-term interest rates, adding upward pressure to the longer-term bond rates that are linked to home mortgage rates.”
“‘If those go up, it’s going to take more people out of the [home-buying] market,’ he said.”
But now or… wait a second…
Homes already are not selling (they are not affordable enough). Increase rates… no down payments (or low, thanks to MEW)…
Got popcorn?
Neil
I don’t know why Florida residents are complaining about taxes…I own a home worth $210,000 and paid almost $7300 in property tax last year and that’s including homestead!
“I don’t know why Florida residents are complaining about taxes…I own a home worth $210,000 and paid almost $7300 in property tax last year…”
It’s because we’re spoiled by those low taxes. I can only imagine the kind of waste that would yield a 3.5% yearly tax rate on property.
We paid $2100 on our 350K house.
“We paid $2100 on our 350K house.”
That’s the other end of the spectrum. Where do they get you in CO if not in property taxes?
My tax in FL on $200K in taxable value is $3,900 just a little under 2%. That’s compared to the $5,100 I paid in MI for $180,000.
Wow, $5,100 in MI for $180,000. My parents pay about $1,500 for their $160,000 home.
“Wow, $5,100 in MI for $180,000. My parents pay about $1,500 for their $160,000 home. ”
Michigan has their own version of save our homes. I’m willing to bet they’ve been in that $160,000 home for a while.
To Texan,
But you pay no state income tax. And in Texas, property taxes are levied by the cities and counties.
If you don’t like your high property taxes, vote for county supervisors who are the ones that have the power to lower your taxes. That’s much easier than trying to lower taxes on a state level.
People bitch about the high property taxes in Texas. Those high taxes keep speculators out of the state which keep housing costs down which keeps property tax bills down.
In California, your 210K house would cost you at least 400K in some dump like Fresno, which means you will pay at least $ 4,000 in property taxes. If you make 80K a year ( which is what you’d need to make to pay for that 400K house) you state income tax bill would be at least $8,000 a year. California sales tax is also higher, so you can add even more tax.
In California, you would be paying at least $12,000 a year in property and income taxes versus $7,300 a year in Texas. In Cali your mortgage for the same identical house would be at least $1,200 a month higher (assuming that you lived in some craphole like Fresno). Your cost of living for food, fuel, clothes, everything would be at least 25% higher.
Taxes in Texas are mild compared to California. Stop complaining. And by the way, if California was to reduce property taxes to adjust for lower property values the state government would have to raise the income tax or sales tax to cover the difference. Anyone for a California income tax rate of 20%?
We’re in east Texas. Our house is worth about $230,000, according to a local realtor, and our property taxes are $2200.
“People have often said that Florida is the new California”
And therein lies THE problem with Florida. It has been like this ever since I moved to this state in 1979. Florida “wannabe” California, or some hybrid of New York and California. LMAO! “We’re gonna have a movie industry JUST LIKE California”. “We’re gonna have a tech industry JUST LIKE California”. “We’ve got an agricultural industry JUST LIKE California.” “Everybody wants to move here JUST LIKE California”.
“We’re world class JUST LIKE California”. GAAAAAHHHHHH!
The big problem with Florida is that it has one helluva inferiority complex. The state NEVER will be a California or New York and that’s a good thing, IMHO. Right now, the ONLY way in which it resembles California is that it has an increasing illegal immigrant problem and a skyrocketing violent crime/gang problem, so much so, that Florida has one of the four cities in the nation (Orlando) requiring a special task force from the FBI. So Florida’s media and politicians need to get a clue.
I’ve said this over and over, ad nauseum: Florida should just concentrate on what is good and unique about the state: great boating, fishing, swimming, laid back and low cost (well, used to be, hopefully that will return) haven from boneass cold winters and strangling corporate lifestyle, a certain kitschy charm, diverse regions (contrast Jacksonville with Miami, for example), the BEST freshwater springs and rivers in the country, lovely little rural pockets in the Northern half of the state, artist colonies and a nationally known group of Impressionist painters known as the Highwaymen, the legendary island of establishment wealth known as Palm Beach, the oldest city in the country, St. Augustine, the Mediterranean architecture in the Southern half of the state and the cracker country architecture in the Northern half, bougainvillea, hibiscus, flame trees, palm trees, sandy beaches, etc., etc.
There’s a lot to like here, but no, this sick housing bubble combined with sick, corrupted politicians is turning this state into a polluted, paved over gulag archipelago. Oh, and the two Senators sold out the state so that we, too, can have oil derricks just off our Gulf Coast. Hey, that’s another way we can be JUST LIKE California!!!!
Rant off. Phew!
Brilliant post palmetto, made my day, thanks.
I liked your summary of FLA, but can I add one thing:
orchids growing on trees in SoFla’s backyards.
Thanks, phillygal, that brought back some nice memories of when I used to live in South Florida. Had a backyard like a jungle, with air orchids and other exotic flora. Loved it. And the beach was a short, relatively painless drive away, where it was easy to get a parking space (hated the meters, though) and sit under a palm or tiki hut for some shade and immerse myself in clear, turquoise water. Ft. Lauderdale, Dania Beach used to be that way.
BTW, to anyone who might be interested as to why someone would become “hooked” on Florida, google the old hand colored photography of W.J. Harris or E.G. Barnhill, or some of the Highwaymen paintings. These images represent the artistic soul of what Florida used to be and in some small pockets, still is. That’s what keeps many of us hanging in there. If you ever visit here, I highly recommend a tube or inflatable boat ride down the Itchetucknee River during the summer. Better than air conditioning and beats the hell out of Disney. Clear spring fed river water slides underneath you as you drift under a green cathedral roof of old river oak branches dripping with Spanish moss. Bigass turtles sunning themselves on logs along the river bank. Yep, there are the occasional gators and snakes, but they tend to avoid the clear water areas. And there’s nothing like watching a storm gather over the Everglades.
Hail to Palmetto, the poet laureate of the Florida thread!
I can still remember my first vacation trip to Florida, dawn of the Space Age (age 6 or 7), to Ormond Beach, and I can remember vividly the colors of the little cottages, all yellow and blue and pastels, the hot sun and white sand and seashells, and playing Indian ball in the street at night (my older brother assuring everyone else that I was good enough to play). Everything seemed hot and bright but so soft and pleasant at the same time. . . Going back home (Va.) it was like having a new little secret . . .
When I first moved to FL in 2000 it was a different place. Houses were affordable - I recall a coworker who had to move back north after 1 year, and all said and done, he sold his house for the same exact price he bought it at, losing money on the closing costs. Today that house is worth at least $90,000 more. At the time, it was equal to about 1.5x-2x his annual income (sole-breadwinner). Florida was a nice place, a cheap place to live. It all changed around 2002 when the housing boom took off, and concurrent trends of “go outdoors”, “own SUV”, and “housing boom” conspired to make this place not so fun. This place became overran with yuppie wanna-bees who drive Navigators and Escalades, some fasionable malls opened, and the yuppies took to the state parks to enjoy the ‘outdoor boom’. Old crackers in Florida were chased into their homes, or away from them by development. Having always been an avid camper, I almost quit the hobby in 2003 after spending countless weekends camped out beside a yuppie in a SUV with designed clothes and camping gear blasting the music all night. Places that used to be easy to get into (Rainbow Springs) were suddenly booked for weeks and sometimes months. I was even berated once while talking to an old man about Florida, who mentioned that my generation was ruining it with our ‘bling bling’ california lifestyles.
It all began to change after Katrina in 2005. Gas prices were high, suburban cowboys were less and less, and suddenly camping and outdoors stuff was not cool. Believe it or not, I noticed a huge difference between hunting seasons in 2005 and 2006. Didn’t see a single shiny pickup truck (sign of a yuppie for sure) last fall; and now it’s pretty easy to get into all the campgrounds even last minute. What does that mean? I don’t know, but I’m going to attribute it to the fad being over. Maybe Florida will return to the great land it once was, before materialism became king and the almighty dollar became the goal, not happiness.
Palmetto, your comment made me realize this: so many people wanted FL to be like CA that you now have it. Much of what you said resembles this state it isn’t even funny. Oh well, good luck trying to go back. Just maybe sanity will return to both states when RE finally collapses!
“so many people wanted FL to be like CA that you now have it.”
TES-TI-FY, Brothah OCDan! What we got, was everything bad that CA has, and none of the good. Certainly not the jobs or salaries. But oh, we’ve got the costs, now! We’ve got the gangs, we’ve got the corruption, we’ve got the pollution.
When I lived in South Florida back in the 80s, I used to hear people from the various Chambers of Commerce hyperventilate about how Florida was going to have a big movie and TV industry like Cali. I had to stifle fits of hysterical laughter when I heard that blowhard stuff. Miami Vice and Ron Howard’s couple of movies shot in Orlando. That’s about it. Yep, that was the big movie industry. Florida tried hard to court the business from Hollywood, but it never happened. Of course, we did have Flipper. Oh, wait, I think I read this weekend that they filmed “Creature from the Black Lagoon” up in Wakulla. And they filmed Sea Hunt here, because back in those days, you couldn’t film in saltwater, the cameras could only tolerate the clear spring river water of Florida. And some Johnny Weismuller movie up in Silver Springs, where they left all the monkeys behind to populate the old oaks and Spanish moss along the river.
I grew up in Ft Lauderdale, back in the 60’s before the development started and my parents used to tell us about the great crash in the earlier years in RE. It looks like this is going to happen again. I went back in 2000 and couldn’t believe what that place looked like, I made up my mind to never return. It just isn’t what I remembered. You really can’t go home.
For affluent renters (who may increase in numbers), FL’s avoidance of a state income tax must be mentioned as a plus. Especially when comparing to Calif.
Yes, az, that is one of Florida’s good points and something that people here take for granted. It has been said that we’ll never see a state income tax, because it would require the voters to change the constitution and they’ll never do that. But I’m not so sure. The local “pinhead punditry” (LMAO, there’s another bunch of bush league wannabes, our local political media, with visions of Woodward and Bernstein dancing in their heads, IN THEIR DREAMS) is starting to beat the drum for a state income tax. Connecticut didn’t used to have state income tax either, and now it does. So it can happen here, too.
As a previous Florida resident and frequent visitor, I raise my glass to these statements. Right on the mark!!!
Florida has never been good at being in the high-tech business etc. Witness IBM shutting down the headquarters where the PC was created and moving it to RTP in NC, and many other such similar business failures. The problem is that Florida is too tourist-centric and water-sports-centric for people to really get serious about business there. So do what you do well - cater to the tourists and water sports and make your money that way, and leave the serious work to the rest of the country that doesn’t have such attractions.
I’ve probably offended some Floridians, but that’s how I feel. Realize that I’m generalizing - there will always be pockets of exceptions - e.g. the fact that the PC was created there in the first place.
You’re not offending me, this is exactly the point I’m trying to make, Florida does certain things very well, tourism is (or was) one of them. We used to have a LOT of European tourists come here on the cheap to stay at the mom and pop establishments along the beaches. But as Ben’s report above has pointed out, many of those have been driven out of business by the bubble. Those European tourists, even though they came here on the cheap, they DID drop some money here. But hey, now they can have some real life thrills, like the English couple visiting Orlando who got “flash kidnapped” (for those who don’t know what “flash kidnapping” is, this is a popular sport among gangbangers in Brazil. They snatch people on the street and drive them from ATM to ATM with either a gun at their head or knife at their throat and force them to withdraw money until the bank accounts are exhausted.)
You are right. Florida does not have the business infrastructure set up to lure high tech companies. Not only that, the area doesn’t have the educational facilities to produce high edcuated people, and those who are produced immediately move away. My living in Florida has probably immensely hurt my career, but the lifestyle I live makes it worth it.
The local paper has articles each time big companies move here with $70,000 a year jobs. GREAT!!! Another corporate megapolis to brainwash people and pay 10 managers $70k so 400 call center workers can make $16/hr. WIth the housing out of control, this place is a losing battle.
To all you people in Florida who want to lower property taxes. In 1978, the voters of California approved the famous prop 13, which reduced property taxes to 1%. In 1978, the state sales tax was 2%. Today the state sales tax is 7.50%. All that happened was that the tax burden was shifted from property to sales items. At the same time the lower property taxes caused real estate speculation to explode, which led to higher home costs.
Excellent point, clearview. Leave it alone, is what I say. Let the bubble die an ugly death here in Florida. If necessary, just draw and quarter the government officials who assess homes at inflated values. That’s the only reform we need.
That story is more complex now. Sales taxes became sidelined by the late 80s. Ever since before the dot com bubble the vast majority of California tax income is income tax from $200k plus earners. That is one of the reasons that the dot com bubble killed everything off. When things get rough most $200k plus earners just stop taking in and declaring most or all income. Another $48 billion bond just before this starts to draw blood would be a perfect learning experience and transformation opportunity for California’s bold experiment.
That was great. I was a resident from ‘92 to ‘06, and you almost made me want to be back in Florida.
Almost!
You forgot to pay tribute to the “barefoot mailman,” though!
“You forgot to pay tribute to the “barefoot mailman,” though!”
I did, indeed. One of the nicest pieces of old Florida lore. Thanks!
Palmetto, I’m amazed at your fascination with old Florida. I’ve been hear since I was thirteen, and I’ve hated it the whole time. If my relatives weren’t here, I’d be long gone. This heat and humidity and crowding and traffic on top of general trashiness and tawdriness don’t thrill me at all. I’d rather swim in a pool any day over the Gulf (the Gulf is prettier, yes, but the sun is torture), and I resent the fact that I can’t go outside most of the year became it’s too bright, too hot, and too unbearably humid.
However, Florida has had previous bubbles that burst, with population exits (I remember when Miami was falling apart and South Beach was abandoned, and Sarasota was practically a ghost town), so, of course, it can happen again, no matter what the hucksters claim. Hollywood Florida was going to be the new movie capital of the world, till it was abandoned, too. Hyde Park was is near ruin when I moved here, because the formerly prosperous residents had fled or died, and you couldn’t give away houses on Bayshore. The only difference between now and then is massive propaganda, hype, lying, and self-delusion. I guess the people figured if they couldn’t change the horrible, they’d just pretend the horrible was fabulous.
Incredulous, I don’t know if you’re still around to see this post, but I hope you do. I would’ve responded sooner, but I actually had to do some work.
Anyway, you’re a closet Florida fanatic and I’m outing you right now. You’re more of a Florida fanatic than I am. How do I know this? First of all, you protest too much how you dislike it here. That’s the first dead giveaway. And then you slipped up and I read your great post about riding bikes with a friend across the Gandy Bridge and looking down at the (formerly) clear waters of Tampa Bay. No one could write like that about such a great memory and NOT have some affection for stinky old Tampa. If you didn’t love this place, you wouldn’t give a snot what happens in Hyde Park, but you do, very much so, so I gotcha! Fess up. You love it here. They couldn’t blast you out of Florida with a rocket launcher and you know it.
OK, I’m just joshing with you. But tell me you don’t love this messed up old state just a little. Un poquito?
Each time I think of Hyde Park, I think of all the yuppies playing “This Old House”. I recently attended a happy hour down there, and believe it or not, all these 20-30 something (myself included) yuppies were prancing around with their dogs. I guess it’s cool to have a dog now. As much as I like Florida, I despise people for doing something just because it’s the cool thing to do. And that’s precisely the problem with the Hyde Park area, since they all do it.
LOL, Moman. Must be the whole Paris Hilton influence. It’s the chic thing to have a dog, it’s an accessory like a Prada purse or Nautica duds.
You forgot the All you can Eat catfish, hushpuppies and beer JOINTS !
What people will pay for amenable sun for 325 days or more is the “sunshine tax”. Everything has it’s price as more stretch their dollars for fun in the sun.
you don’t want the oil rigs? Fine, but don’t complain about gas prices. NIMBY, right?
Forgot to mention the Thoroughbred farms of Ocala!
Since the majority of this hemorrhaging is happening on the coasts, I got to thinking the other day. Would it be a better investment to purchase a yacht as an investment property instead of the free falling houses? Sure you are going to be paying out 200-300k, however that is far from the land locked property at 800k on the coast. I don’t know the tax breaks you get from this, but you can enjoy your residence , live on it if you wish, and wake up on the water every morning…..for a fraction of the price of house prices and with more stability in prices.
Thoughts?
we have looked at it, but live aboard slips are few and expensive, insurance high and boats depreciate like cars.
Two happiest days of a boat owners life….the day he buys it….and the day he sells it. These become money pits.
Not if you love boating; as I do.
There are two types of boaters.
1) Boaters who enjoy the lifestyle and are willing to sacrifice the time, money and effort to be on the water; and
2) People who buy boats and quickly discover that it takes more time money and effort than they are willing to sacrifice.
Additionally, boats perform quite well when they are carefully and lovingly “ridden hard and put up well”.
I love boating and my Florida lifestyle. I wouldn’t trade it for the world. It makes me happy !
“I love boating and my Florida lifestyle. I wouldn’t trade it for the world. It makes me happy !”
Testify, Brothah Les!
I was watching 60 Minutes special the other night on a tribe of indigenous people who live on islands in the Indian Ocean, near Burma, Thailand, etc. They are very happy with their simple, primitive lifestyle and don’t have words for “want”, etc. Except now, Burma is trying to FORCE them into making souvenir trinkets for tourists. Yessir, co-opt the natural resources and FORCE people to join the corporate structure.
In a way, you could compare those tribes to those of us in Florida who were enjoying the laid back, low effort lifestyle until the bubble reared its ugly head.
You can buy a nice used house boat, say 35′, fully equipped for around $ 40,000.
I have seen some really nice setups and am considering one for myself if I choose to semi-retire in the next few years.
I wouldn’t raise a family on one, but for an active, semi-retired bachelor it would be an awesome lifestyle.
A boat as a good investment? BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Come on, seriously, this was a joke post wasn’t it? Fess up - you were just funnin’ the old message board, weren’t you? A boat - HAHAHAHA as BWAHAHAH an HEHEHEHEHE investment? HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO!
Yes scary hunh, the day when buying a boat is a better investment than a house?
“Yes scary hunh, the day when buying a boat is a better investment than a house?”
New Boat 2005: $50,000
Value in 2007: $35,000 or about 70% of price paid
New House 2005: $500,000
Value in 2007: $280,000 or about 56% of price paid
Which is the better “investment” when you look at those numbers?
Shhh… don’t tell anyone!
The last thing we need is a tidal wave of boat flippers.
Someone told me that the State of Florida had banned “live aboards” in anchorages? That is you must have a boat slip with sewer service or pump out station. Anyone know about this?
“Someone told me that the State of Florida had banned “live aboards” in anchorages?…”
Don’t know for sure but I highly doubt it. When I’m on my boat I can’t even keep track of the number of live aboards out there. I would assume if that’s true that it would be enforced.
Just did a quick check for fun a few minutes earlier.
You can rent a U-Haul (26′ truck):
From Bradenton, FL to Charleston, SC for $874.00
From Charleston, SC to Bradenton, FL for $284.00
For those still thinking more people are moving to Florida than out of it, they need to just look at these real-time stats.
How about count the amount of truck rentals going out of Florida at the state line?
I remember traveling on the I-40 through part of Arizona around 1996 or so (not sure of exact year anymore) and seeing a mind-boggling number of U-Haul and other “move yourself” trucks heading east. It would be interesting to watch the flow northbound on I-75 and I-95 out of Florida these days.
Saw an article that said a lot of people were moving out using moving cos. People moving in were using u-hauls. More money out, less money in.
Many buyers told their lenders they planned to live in the homes they were buying. ‘The truth is, people lie,’ Vitner says.”
Hey, Vitner - which turnip truck did you fall off of? Sherlock, where did you get your first clue?
WELL LIKE UM GEEZ SERGIO…Lower your price to $800K, and GET OUT OF JAIL YOU MORON!
aNYCdj - it isn’t nice to insulting people that just happen to be stupid to this guy. The generally stupid folks won’t be caught without their pants like this idiot, and be crying to the media. LOL
In that case everybody should have to pay taxes on profits that HAVE been realized. You greedy #$%^ers want the cap gains exclusion but don’t want to pay property tax which is ultimately a small fraction of your massive cap gains which you don’t pay a dime on. What’s unfair is that someone who works their butt off daily for a job has to pay a huge chunk of income tax, while you greedy pigs who sit on your bloated behinds doing bugger all are entitled to keep ALL your profits which appeared with no contribution to society by you or anyone else. And you have the balls to complain about property tax. You have no business living in that house if you can’t afford to pay that. #$%^ you.
Rant off.
Just scrolling down the commentary today, I noticed “idiot” numerous times, and an occasional use of “moron,”
“dumb,” “ass,” “short memory,” and of course “GF.” I have not gone to the thesaurus yet, but I think we should all concentrate on enriching our vocabulary of descriptors for birdbrains, numbskulls, imbeciles, retards, jerks and dimwits.
Here’s a silly statement from the president of the Orlando Regional Realtors Assn: he argues that people are trapped against down-sizing because their taxes would double or triple if they sold their homes and bought smaller ones. “That’s what’s trapping them,” he says. No mister, what’s trapping them is an absence of buyers. If they could sell, they could easily become tenants without exposing themselves to property tax increases. They just can’t get the wishing price out of their houses.
I lived in California for a long time. Attention, Florida, if you want California you can have it. Please take all of the smog, crime, traffic, even higher cost than what you have, undocumented workers who pay no taxes and drain the systems (not targetting any particular ethnicity), uninsured for when you are in an accident, gangs, drive-bys, highway robbery taxes, Hollywood running the government, potholes and other well maintained roads, overloaded courts, hostile business climate, crowded prisons so they free real dangerous people (e.g., Paris Hilton, Mel Gibson, Woody Harrelson, etc), and so on.
Did I leave anything desirable out? The few visits I made to FL were nice (mostly the WDW and other tourist stuff).
I meant that we shouldln’t insult morons by comparing them to this blithering idiot Sergio who is voluntarily a prisoner in his own house. I’m essentially in jail in my own house
Re: immigrants’ payment of taxes
Saw an interesting, non-partisan PBS piece a few years ago, and I believe I am remembering these statistics correctly, but keep in mind they are several years old:
(1) Typical family of immigrants in Calif (legal or illegal) pays the state $1600 per year in taxes of all kinds (income, prop, sales, &c)
(2) Typical family of NON-immigrants in Calif pays the state $6,500 per year in taxes of all kinds.
(3) Among immigrants in Calif, 49% qualify for MediCal (medicaid)
(4) Among non-immigrants the analogous figure is 7%.
(5) All of (1), (2), (3), and (4) would constitute a supportable set of transfer payments if the number of immigrants were stable. But of course the RESULT of (1), (2), (3), and (4) is that the number of immigrants increases by hundreds of thousands every year, so no Gray Davis, no Arnold Schwarzenegger, no Anybody can stabilize the financial situation w/r/t Calif govt.
Only thing I am going to say on immigration is I find it laughable on both sides. Since I am on the side of trying to protect my State and and the USA from the deluge, I will scoff a the people on this side of the fence. They are all up in arms about the Mexicans coming over and working in the fields….because that is taking an Americans job? I mean so many kids out of college or HS are going to jump into this position to put food on the plates? I highly doubt it….HOWEVER…we import H1-B and L1 Visa immigrants from India and China and all over to be nurses, engineers, and anything else that we need an actual warm educated body at the desk you can’t outsource. Uhhh,…hello Americans wake up to outsourcing and importing of cheap labor that is going to take your job you just put 8 years of college in to get…just terrible.
“They are all up in arms about the Mexicans coming over and working in the fields….because that is taking an Americans job? I mean so many kids out of college or HS are going to jump into this position to put food on the plates? I highly doubt it…”
I hear this argument a lot, but would counter by saying that low-cost immigrant workers in low-end jobs keeps the whole “job chain” pegged at a lower level. If agribusiness and other low-end entry jobs had to pay a decent wage, then wages would be up all across the spectrum. Granted, prices would go up, too, but if you’re a wage-earning saver, you’d probably be better off with higher prices and higher wages
Agricultural work can be automated. By why bother when cleap labor is available?
Exactly, InColorado. The arguments that people make on behalf of illegal immigrants are just too eerily similar to the arguments that the old Southern plantation slave holders made in favor of keeping slavery. The North solved the the agricultural cost aspect of the argument with the McCormick reaper and other such technology. Better and cheaper.
I’ll take the sunshine, sunsets, ocean breeze, bikinis sauntering past my front door, cheap manual labor (immigrants), short trips to Vegas, short trips to the snow, short trips to Anza Borrego, no shortage of good bands scampering about, burritos, miniskirts, burritos, dodging Paris and Lindsay on the freeway, and I just feel safer knowing my governor can slaughter 3 eyed creatures and lead people to choppers, even though he can barely speak English.
But then I’m originally from England, so I’m probably biased.
I lived in SoCal of 20+ years. I will never move back there.
Sorry if this already posted but I love the quote.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/19190820
Here is a quote from that article.
“CNBC asked me for an interview which I respectfully declined because all the media seems to talk about is the death of the housing industry. The housing market is not dead, it is alive and well.” Ok, thanks for singling us out Mr. Tomnitz.
Mr. Tomnitz is the Horton CEO
“Horton CEO”
Horton Hears a Death Rattle.
Horton, is that you?
“You’re safer taking a ride with Lindsay Lohan than being in homebuilder stocks,” said David Lichtenstein, chief executive officer of Lightstone Group LLC in Lakewood, New Jersey, which owns malls and hotels. Actress Lohan was arrested May 26 for driving under the influence after crashing her car.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a9WrgkMoBpyI&refer=home
Wonder why he said “Lindsay Lohan” instead of “Ted Kennedy?”
I’m suprised also there are not more comments on this Sol Sotheby’s agent, Carlos. They were on TLC’s Million Dollar Agents. Quote from website, “One of the team’s biggest challenges is adapting to Carlos’ unconventional business practices, including employing an on-staff “vision coach.” Instead of a business calendar, Carlos works on a lunar calendar; he plots his staff meetings and major sales on the movement of the moon. ” LOL
http://tlc.discovery.com/fansites/milliondollaragents/about/about.html
Too funny! Thanks for posting that, Trent.
Bitching about $7,400 in taxes on a $400K house? Come to Texas, sir. My landlord’s taxes are only slightly less on a house valued at $245K.
Apparently, The Learning Channel has a show featuring Carlos Justo:
http://tlc.discovery.com/fansites/milliondollaragents/about/about.html
(from the site)
One of the team’s biggest challenges is adapting to Carlos’ unconventional business practices, including employing an on-staff “vision coach.” Instead of a business calendar, Carlos works on a lunar calendar; he plots his staff meetings and major sales on the movement of the moon. Every meeting begins with a meditation session, during which the team creates an “intention” for the day. Plus the staff regularly goes on full-day “vision retreats,” where they refine their goals, both personal and professional. A perfect foil for Carlos’ over-the-top personality, Irving (”The Partner”) is the voice of reason. As CEO of Sol Sotheby’s, Irving balances roles as task master, arbitrator and father-figure to this new team of agents.
You can get a pretty good view of Carol’s soon-to-be-in-foreclosure property by typing the following into Google Earth:
40 Indian Creek Island
Tulips - this is hilarious!
The Man Himself
“I went to a New Age RE Seminar and all I got was this lousy NOD”
oops - did the link wrong.
Tulip’s link has a pic of Carlos in all his flamingo pink glory.
Not one mention that prices are way to pricey like 50% to pricey. Price drops of 50% would help alot.
“Kevin Hussey (said). ‘Something has to be done now. We read that the real estate market has slowed down. It’s worse. It’s on its knees.’”
LOL. Property tax rate has not gone up. People are buying their property at high price thus resulting in higher property tax. Well, if the high property price is causing this mess, then lowering property price will fix this mess. It’s such a straight forward solution. The real estate agents, and homeowners, who are selling their home, can easily fix this problem by selling at a lower price. Please don’t create a ton of federal/state/local handouts to fix what irresponsible home buyers did in the pass few years! Grow up and be responsible! Risk = Reward or Bankruptcy. Those who bought homes a few years ago and now can’t afford the payment should return to rent. There’s no shame is renting a house. Millions of people do it all the time!
Think for a minute about how much laundered drug monies have enabled so many now legit businesses & private homes in Florida since the early 1980’s to the present - the dollar amounts are staggering. See that Miami skyline? Guess what funded construction of a lot of it? Corruption on a grand scale, and you never really know what your ‘well-off’ neighbors really are all about.