June 17, 2007

There’s No Question The Market Has Softened

The Courier Journal reports from Indiana. “Southern Indiana home builders have scaled back their annual expo due to slower sales. Last year, the Expo was in Floyds Knobs and featured eight homes priced from $750,000 to $1 million. Some are still unsold. ‘Houses in those price ranges have more days on-market than typical,’ said builder and Realtor Bill Burns. ‘By the time they have it days on-market that long, if they’re carrying it, financing it, the carrying costs, the interest cuts into your profit quite quickly.’”

“This year, five builders have put up just six houses for the show, but they’re three- to five-bedroom, multigabled brick homes strung out along Zoeller’s Champions Pointe course. Asking prices range from $419,500 to $479,000.”

“‘That range may be (selling) a little slow, depending on the location,’ said Donna Gibson, executive officer for the home builders association. ‘We wouldn’t dare build homes like we did last year…but that price range, in that location, on that golf course, we feel they’re going to move.’”

“Helping them move will be a ‘Buy Now, Build Now’ campaign, similar to the one Louisville had this spring. The Southern Indiana Realtors Association and One Southern Indiana, formerly the Chamber of Commerce, will be delivering a message.”

“‘Interest rates are good; they’re rising a little bit, but there’s a lot of housing on the market right now,’ Burns said. ‘Hesitate now and it may be your loss, because rates have been rising.’”

The South Bend Tribune from Indiana. “Four Seasons Housing Inc. will close one of its plants, laying off 20 people and moving 18 others to different buildings.”

“A little more than a year ago, the company was expanding. In September 2005, Four Seasons built a 170,500-square-foot plant that opened in early 2006. The $4 million plant included 80 new jobs. In 2004, the company had about $45 million in sales, and was hoping to hit $60 million in 2006, said Brent Bardo, general manager of Four Seasons, during an interview in 2005.”

“It didn’t make that goal, said Bob Dumm, company president, who declined to name a 2006 sales figure for the privately held company. ‘That’s part of the reason (for closing a plant),’ he said. ‘The industry as a whole is pretty flat.’”

“The other part of the reason is this: Four Seasons saw 59.2 percent growth from 2005 to 2006, Dumm said. ‘We expected it to continue through 2007,’ he said. ‘It did not.’”

“The entire industry is feeling that, said Dennis Harney, executive director of the Indiana Manufactured Housing Association. ‘The economy has been a challenge for us,’ he said. ‘Indiana and Michigan are leading the nation in foreclosures and bankruptcies.’”

The Detroit Free Press from Michigan. “With the glut of empty houses, both for sale and foreclosed, unkempt properties are increasing in nearly every community in metro Detroit.”

“Job transfers, sellers who already have purchased another house and moved, and those who have lost their homes to foreclosure have contributed to the increase in vacant properties in southeast Michigan. Coupled with an overall sluggish market and plunging home values, serious buyers are having a heyday. They expect more for less and can demand it or take their dollars elsewhere.”

“Agents can, and will, only do so much. ‘When people look at a street and they find foreclosures and uncared-for vacant properties, it decreases the value of surrounding homes; that is a statistical fact,’ said Keith Weber, an agent who markets homes in southern Oakland County.”

The Journal Sentinel from Wisconsin. “Bad home loans continue to dog Wisconsin and the nation, with rising default and foreclosure rates in this year’s first quarter, the Mortgage Bankers Association reported.”

“Blame for the deepening mortgage woes has been cast at borrowers and lenders for their allegedly profligate ways, but economist Duncan portrayed a more complex stew of life’s reversals: an uneven job market, speculators who helped fuel the nation’s 2001-’05 housing boom and dumped the unwanted leftovers, and fraud.”

“More trouble is brewing. As of March 31, 4.33% of U.S. borrowers and 3.28% of Wisconsin borrowers were at least 30 days behind on mortgage payments.”

“That’s bad, he said, but not disastrous, Duncan said. ‘Look at the big picture. This is not going to cause a national recession. It’s a housing recession, which I think will pass in the fourth quarter,’ said Doug Duncan, chief economist for the Mortgage Bankers Association. ‘The peak on foreclosures will be early ‘08.’”

“Badger State mortgage problems have shocked even industry veterans like Bill Malkasian, president of the Wisconsin Realtors Association.”

“‘You take our three recent scenarios; higher foreclosures, tighter lending standards and higher interest rates, and the boat gets a little tippy,’ Malkasian said. ‘All three factors are pulling at our housing market. You just can’t take hit after hit after hit.’”

The Daily Journal from Minnesota. “The national slump in the housing market has affected Minnesota, according to data from the state Department of Revenue.”

“‘There’s no question the market has softened in Fergus Falls, but people are still buying houses,’ Realtor Jim Worner said. ‘You always have to remember, things that happen nationally, like in Los Angeles or San Francisco are driven by the economic situations in those towns.’”

“Location continues to drive housing prices, according to a new report from the Minnesota State Demographic Center. Some areas of Minnesota continue to demonstrate strong price growth, close to 50 percent, despite the overall sluggish real estate market.”

“Prices shot up 48 percent in Lake of the Woods County, 47 percent in Red Lake County and 33 percent in Clearwater County from 2003-04 to 2005-06, according to the report. Median prices fell in Kittson, Lake, Murray and Traverse counties over the same period.”

“Median sales prices have risen in Otter Tail, Grant and Wilkin counties substantially since 2000. Prices in Otter Tail County are up 43.1 percent since 2000 and 18.6 percent since 2003. In the same time frames, prices rose 37.3 percent since 2000 and 24.1 since 2003 percent in Grant County and 22 and 5 percent in Wilkin County.”

The Pioneer Press. “The number of Minnesota homeowners seriously late on payments or in foreclosure on subprime adjustable-rate mortgages jumped to all-time highs in the first three months of this year.”

“The Mortgage Bankers Association said that 14 percent of some 56,900 subprime adjustable-rate mortgages in Minnesota were 90 days or more past due or in some stage of foreclosure in the first quarter. That’s up from 12.43 percent in the final months of 2006, and up from 8 percent a year earlier.”

“Julie Gugin, executive director of the Minnesota Home Ownership Center, called Minnesota’s high subprime-delinquency rates ‘extremely worrisome.’ ‘We’re continuing to look at ways to address the crisis,’ Gugin said. ‘We’re estimating another three years of these kinds of patterns before we see a real leveling out.’”

“The state’s economy isn’t missing enough beats to explain the trouble, said state economist Tom Stinson. He suggested the late payments were more a reflection of loose mortgage lending standards such as not requiring borrowers to verify their income.”

“An estimated 18 percent of homeowners holding subprime mortgages in Minnesota were 60 days or more late on their payments as of April, up from 11 percent a year ago, according to First American Loan Performance. That’s higher than the national subprime delinquency rate of 13.4 percent.”

“In the greater Minneapolis-St. Paul metro area, almost 19 percent of homeowners with subprime loans were 60 days or more late, putting it in the Top 25 for worst performing metro areas.”

“Stinson said he expects the state’s mortgage woes will deepen over the next year and a half as the interest rates on adjustable-rate mortgages continue to reset. ‘There are still people out there who are on subprime ARMS that have a year or year and a half to go before they reset. They aren’t feeling the pressure yet,’ Stinson said.”




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27 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-06-17 09:44:48

I’m seeing more Indiana reports every week, lately.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-06-17 10:09:07

Keep up the good sleuthing from Indiana, Jones.

 
Comment by mongo78
2007-06-17 11:04:46

Indiana is one more example of places that never should have seen a housing boom are now seeing a housing crash. The economy there is not great, but not bad. Employment the same. The only difference in the last 5-10 years is the flood of subprime money, the consequences of which are now coming home to roost.

I keep track of the metro Indy market by watching the MLS and talking to people in my industry who live there, and the general consensus is that people who moved there and bought within the last couple of years are probably upside down, even in the more desirable areas like Carmel, Meridian-Kessler and Broad Ripple. I am certainly seeing plenty of properties coming on the market in my old neighborhood that are superior in size and quality for 10-15% less than what I sold at in 2006.

Comment by Sobay
2007-06-17 15:37:49

‘The economy there is not great, but not bad. Employment the same.’

I am from Indiana and have plenty of relatives that had their careers in the auto industry and farming. They completely agree that the economy locally is decidedly negative - toast - in the toilet. The jobs are low paying and prospects are slim.

 
 
 
Comment by Lisa
2007-06-17 10:03:44

“There are still people out there who are on subprime ARMS that have a year or year and a half to go before they reset. They aren’t feeling the pressure yet,’ Stinson said.”

I disagree. Every story I read about resetting mortgages is a sob story about how the homeowner can’t afford the higher payment, not by a long shot. I absolutely think the FB’s know full well the day of reckoning is coming. More inventory to add to the fire, I think. I’m sure a lot of these folks were planning on selling before their payment goes through the roof.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-06-17 10:28:24

“…a sob story about how the homeowner can’t afford the higher payment…”

Strange, isn’t it, that not one of these tales of woe considers whether the homeowner can afford the house.

Comment by jerry from richardson
2007-06-17 11:11:20

It’s easier to sell by saying something only costs xx/month instead of $800,000. That’s what salespeople are being taught these days.

Comment by GetStucco
2007-06-17 11:58:44

Well frankly, I never expected the used-car-dealer’s classic scam to show up as a way to get people to buy homes they cannot afford. But then I also failed to foresee a complete abandonment of lending standards.

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Comment by mrjauk
2007-06-17 12:54:40

It’s easier to sell by saying something only costs xx/month instead of $800,000. That’s what salespeople are being taught these days.

That’s exactly right and the approach is now being used by sales people throughout the economy. An example is an especially pernicious radio ad I’ve heard often (in Richmond, VA), in which the announcer asks “if you can afford a payment of $29 for 12 months, you too can own a brand new computer!” Then, about 10 seconds later, after he’s described the specifics of the computer you would be buying, the announcer says again “So, if you can afford a payment of $29/week…”
So, you’d be paying over $1500 for a computer that costs maybe 1/3 that.
Hell, why didn’t they just claim that you’d only have to pay 4 dollars a day!

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Comment by homoaner
2007-06-17 11:32:35

You are absolutely correct, sir! In the past two weeks the following has happened where I work. 1. A guy I work with frantically refi’d into a new ARM because his old one was resetting and he couldn’t afford the payments. Couldn’t afford a new fixed-rate loan, either, so his only choice was to delay the inevitable a bit longer.

What hurts about this is he’s a single dad (not his choice) who gets no child support from the deadbeat mom and works three jobs to make ends meet. His well-off brother advised him to refi from his fixed mortgage into a cash-out ARM in ‘05, and since his brother is rich, he assumed his brother’s advice was sound. I found out and tried to convince him not to do it, but he listened to his brother. Had he only hung onto his original mortgage…he doesn’t deserve this pain.

2. Another coworker helped out a guy in her division who was also frantically trying to refi out of his ARM. He knew he couldn’t make the forthcoming higher payments and was trying to get the mortgage company to come through on their promise that he could just refinance whenever he chose. They were giving him the runaround (he’s from Africa, and his English isn’t too good), so his coworker got angry, got on the phone, and acted as his advocate through the difficult process of finding a lender who could/would give this guy a new mortgage. Again - couldn’t afford a fixed, had to refi into another ARM, thus postponing the day of reckoning. He’s trying to sell his house now. He told his coworker he wished he’d never bought a house and had stuck with renting.

This is a white-collar office, by the way, where most employees hold at least one college degree. But as my dad used to say, educated isn’t the same as smart.

Comment by BJ
2007-06-17 12:13:33

The few times I have been unsure what to do and needed financial advise the only person I trust is a CPA. Yes, it costs $175 for an hour of his time, but he would crunch the numbers and advise me accordingly. I have never regretted his fees
I paid extra money every month on the principal plus put every dollar of my tax refund toward the mortgage of my first house. People said I was foolish because mortgage interest is tax deductible . My thoughts were that if I pay $4000 in interest and the government refunds $1200 I am out $2800. I finally asked a CPA. He said I was correct and in fact with my 8% 30 yr fixed mortgage I saved $3 off the end for every $1 that I paid extra .

 
 
 
Comment by flatffplan
2007-06-17 10:21:55

what was the ALL TIME HIG ?
bet it was differnet for each part of the country
oil patch 86 bahstin 90 ca 95
not this time - this time we’re all in ,so to speak
“seriously late on payments or in foreclosure on subprime adjustable-rate mortgages jumped to all-time highs in the first three months of this year.”

Comment by jerry from richardson
2007-06-17 16:20:18

I have a friend in Midland, Tx who says the housing market out there is booming. Prices have doubled since 2004. The high oil and gas prices are bringing lots of money out there and the unemployment is around 2%. They wanted to buy a house before they were priced out. It looks like the oil boom out in West Texas again.

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-06-17 10:26:58

“Last year, the Expo was in Floyds Knobs and featured eight homes priced from $750,000 to $1 million. Some are still unsold. ‘Houses in those price ranges have more days on-market than typical,’ said builder and Realtor Bill Burns. ‘By the time they have it days on-market that long, if they’re carrying it, financing it, the carrying costs, the interest cuts into your profit quite quickly.’”

By the time they have it days-on-market that long, wouldn’t it make sense to start measuring time in years?

 
Comment by JayinMD
2007-06-17 10:34:30

said builder and Realtor Bill Burns. ‘By the time they have it days on-market that long, if they’re carrying it, financing it, the carrying costs, the interest cuts into your profit quite quickly.’”

After that long on the market, costs have already eaten all your profits, unless your profit margin was HUGE to begin with, and if that was the case, you should have dropped the price a long time ago. But then again, Ole Bill ain’t just a builder, he’s also a realtor.

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-06-17 10:49:46

‘There are still people out there who are on subprime ARMS that have a year or year and a half to go before they reset. They aren’t feeling the pressure yet,’

Svcks big time to have an ARM in a rising-rate, tightening-credit, increasing-inflation environment. Tick, tick, tick…
——————————————————————————-
Interest rate fears at rest? Don’t get too comfortable
By Tom Petruno, Times Staff Writer
June 17, 2007

Many Wall Street analysts believe that long-term interest rates in the U.S. aren’t likely to continue the sharp upward move of the last few months. Rates, many say, could stabilize soon, or at worst move gradually higher.

Here are two risks to that forecast:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-petside17jun17,1,7387202.story?coll=la-headlines-business

Comment by GH
2007-06-17 11:03:37

Interesting article. Something else seldom mentioned, yet seemingly common sense based, is the level of debt in the US, personal, corporate, municipal, state and federal. I would put it out there the basic idea - the king has no clothes, and there is insufficient money without heavy inflation to repay these debts. Even a defaulted debt, is in effect paid, by sharing the loss among the larger investment group vested in that debt, so for example, your credit card rates reflect the cost of losses by those who default and do not repay their debt. I see no way out of this mess, except to “inflate” it away. Inflation is painful, but deflation, the apparent alternative is crippling to an economy, and would lead to massive defaults and super high interest rates.

The big question is how to get wage inflation back without protectionism which apparently will not happen any time soon, given we are a work ethic, wage and income driven economy.

Comment by threadkilla
2007-06-17 11:10:42

if what we’ve had over the last 20 years has not been massive inflation than i don’t know what is….so you are calling for an increase of the same??

AND wage will head no where but down, EVERYBODY i talk with has the same reply……wages in my industry have risen little in 20 years.

deflation is on the way as public sentiment will bring that about when they realize they are so far in debt there is no way out so people will stop spending

 
Comment by jerry from richardson
2007-06-17 11:15:48

The lesson is, don’t go in debt. Hyperinflation is just as bad as deflation. Can you imagine if the US had hyperinflation and the dollar was worthless? No more oil imports. No more food imports. No more electronics or computers. How can you say that is worse than deflation? No more government running on debt?

Comment by GH
2007-06-17 21:09:22

The reality is that we are ALL in debt. You are deeply in debted even if you have no personal debt, since each of us is jointly liable for the national debt in some form. I doubt our foreign creditors will be pleased if uncle sam defaults, thus the money will be created to pay these debts. If as individuals, our salaries are pressed to third world levels, this will result in massive defaults across the board, on mortgages, credit cards the works, and sorporate debts will follow fast. Lesser of two evils I guess.

There is a third alternative (GASP!) and that is protectionism. A middle class is like a delicate garden and must be cultivated. it does not grow naturally. So who needs a middle class. What is wrong with a few billionaires and millions of peasants like other third world countries? For one, a middle class results in “flow” of money. I doubt Bill Gates results in much flow, given he cannot eat much more than any other human, and already has most everything he could ever want.

What we have right now I believe is termed stag-flation. Wages down, cost of living up. Debt up, long term outlook bleak.

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Comment by UnRealtor
2007-06-17 12:42:18

Outsourcing top US jobs to India should help.

Back at home: “Do you want fries with that?”

Comment by jerry from richardson
2007-06-17 20:41:05

Actually, McDonalds is doing a trial on outsourcing their ordering to call centers.

People will drive up and talk to someone at a call center. Then they would insert their credit card or money into a machine and drive up. Someone will drop their food off to them. We all know the call center will end up in India. My advice is to get a job as the burger flipper (unless they hire undocumented workers with tuberculosis/hepatitis to do that). I guess there aren’t any jobs Americans are willing to do.

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Comment by GH
2007-06-18 05:56:55

I have a funny story about this. A few years back, I was laid off at a major title company where I had worked three years as a software engineer. The VP of the division bragged how I had been replaced by 10 developers in India. Funny thing, they could not have legally paid my rate to be comptetitive on the International labor market.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by joe momma
2007-06-17 10:55:17

Looking at the Japanese experience, and ours could go a lot like theirs did. From the year they peeked, they had 3 years of slowly dropping prices. The following 3 years represented the vast majority of the decline they experienced. But the real bottom didn’t come for another 3 years.

So it was 6 years from the top to a reasonable post-bubble level, and 9 years to the real bottom. Assuming it is the same here let’s say 2005 was the top, so we are in year 2 of the 3 year initial drop. This means in late 2008 or early 2009 we will start seeing serious price drops. Realistic prices arrive in 2012. These are prices that won’t ruin you financially. It will still drop a bit, and then stay flat or down slightly for another decade.

I am not saying I think our situation will play out exactly like the Japanese did. For starters, they are savers, we aren’t. So when the shit hit the fan they had reserves to help ride out the storm. They also have decent social programs, so there was a safety net. We have almost nothing. They are also far more likely to live with family members, so they have a more viable social network if someone gets in trouble. It’s pretty much every man for themselves in the US. They did have a serious loan problem, but not to the degree we had. Their ARM time bombs were nothing like ours either. So there is an excellent chance our bust will move faster.

But even if you shorten the time scale, you are still looking at 2008 as the start of serious national price drops, and they won’t slow down until 2009 or 2010. And you still will have a home that is hard to sell for a decade.

Bottom line: it’s a REALLY bad time to buy a home. And it will still be a REALLY bad time to buy in 2008, 2009, and 2010.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-06-17 11:27:11

And Minnesotans are still listing homes at absolute dream prices. They think the foreclosures will impact everybody but them. I saw some listings last week and just laughed. I just saw the house of a high school friend listed for sale and their price is a complete joke. I now believe the Twin Cities needs to drop 30 - 40 percent from their current ridiculous pricing.

 
Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2007-06-17 11:36:28

I live in a resort area of western NC. I’ve been hanging around this blog for almost two years. Lately, though, I’ve almost convinced myself that the real estate market is not as bad as it sometimes is portrayed by the posters on this blog. Yesterday, though, I was showing some out-of-town friends on vacation around, and ended up going to some places and driving on some back roads where I haven’t been in years. I was blown away by the number of For Sale signs we passed. I’m convinced now that things are as bad, and maybe even worse than they are mentioned in this blog. I would tell any doubters to turn their plasma TVs off and take a drive in the country. That’ll make believers out of them quick!

 
Comment by mikey
2007-06-17 12:44:39

Call it the Default , Foreclosure or Bankruptcies Belt but 2007-2009 will cut a a dire economic swath though the midwest from Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio reminiscent of the of the “Rust Belt” Days.

Better can some MORE tomatoes this year Auntie Em, you may have visitors in Kansas :)

 
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