The Worst Housing Slump In Nearly Two Decades
The Sun Sentinel reports from Florida. “Prospective home buyers let the spring selling season pass in May with a yawn and maybe a lowball offer. Broward County had by far its worst May since the Florida Association of Realtors started keeping track in 1994. There were 574 sales of existing homes compared with 862 a year ago, a 33 percent slide.”
“At the end of May, Broward had more than 47,500 homes and condominiums on the market, according to the Miami-based Keyes Co. That’s up 27 percent from a year ago. At the current sales pace, it would take about seven years to sell all those properties.”
“Despite the negative forecasts, now is a good time to buy, said Sean Donahue, VP of sales for HomeBanc in Deerfield Beach. With interest rates rising, those who wait will end up paying more for their houses, he said.”
The St Petersburg Times. “Given the worst housing slump in nearly two decades, home builders and condo developers are now jumping to pay your property taxes, homeowners insurance and even college tuition as incentives to buy a new home or condo.”
“The developer of two condo projects in Tampa offers to pay a semester’s worth of tuition at the University of South Florida for home buyers.”
“Condominium sales in Hillsborough County are down 49 percent, reports the Greater Tampa Association of Realtor’s May 2007 year-to-date statistics. Recent new home sales statistics for the Tampa Bay area were not available, but existing home sales were down 42 percent in May compared to a year ago.”
“Venetian Isles has long been known as one of the most attractive waterfront communities in southern Pinellas County. In three cases, though, the homeowners association is having a hard time finding the owners.”
“‘A lot of you have been calling to question what is going on with the home on Overlook Drive with the overgrown lawn, and a few other properties,’ president Jim Pelletier wrote in the current newsletter. ‘Believe me, we are very aware of them and involved with them.’”
“The association is dealing with an increasingly familiar problem in the Tampa Bay area as the housing bubble deflates. Many expensive homes were financed for 100 percent of the purchase price and are now falling into foreclosure and disrepair because the absentee owners can’t - or won’t - make the hefty mortgage payments.”
“In Venetian Isles, concern first arose over a house on Carolina Drive whose ‘owners,’ say their signature was forged without their knowledge on $930,000 in loans. The lawn is nearly dead and the house, now vacant, is in foreclosure proceedings.”
“The association has sued the owner of another house, this one on Overlook Drive, the main entrance to the 533-home subdivision on Tampa Bay. Last week, the grass was knee-high and the house was vacant, as it has been intermittently for months.”
“Public records show that the home was purchased in November for $1,050,000, almost $275, 000 more than for comparable sales during the peak of the real estate boom in 2004-2005. The property was financed for the full amount by Virgil Dennard, who showed a California driver’s license as identification.”
“Dennard does not live in the house, and mail sent there was returned as ‘undeliverable,’ according to the association’s law firm. Nor does Dennard live in another house he bought about the same time on Boca Ciega Bay in the South Pasadena area. He financed that for $1.275-million, $25,000 more than the publicly recorded sales price.”
“The sellers of both houses mortgaged in Dennard’s name say the person they dealt with was not Dennard, but a man named Tommy Watts. ‘He called himself an investor,’ said Robert Learned, one of the sellers. ‘He was kind of vague, he didn’t seem to want to talk about what he did.’”
“It’s such a dilemma when we have these absentee owners who are in violation and we have more than 500 other owners who just don’t understand,’ says Linda Testa, head of the deed restrictions committee. ‘There’s nothing we can do but contact the owner, but when we can’t find the owner, it’s a real problem.’”
The Miami Herald. “The Multiple Listing Service is a real estate agent’s bible. But it has also become a tool for fraud. Real estate agents say they are sometimes asked to raise the list price of a home. In mortgage fraud cases, that allows a broker to pay the seller at the original list price and keep the rest of the money as cash back at closing.”
“The false sales information means other sellers can end up overpricing houses that then get stuck on the market, and other buyers can end up paying more than they should.”
“‘The average person in a neighborhood full of fraud is paying higher taxes because of an artificial base, they’re paying more because somebody cheated,, says Nancy Hogan, a member of the Florida Real Estate Commission. ‘On the other hand, when those houses go into foreclosure, they are also bringing down the neighborhood.’”
“‘It scares me to death,’ says Hogan, also managing broker of Coldwell Banker in Coral Gables. ‘Every time I go and give one of my presentations and there are 100 Realtors there and I say, ‘Has any one seen an offer asking for $100,000 going back to the buyer and 50 percent of them raise their hands…it’s that rampant.’”
“Property appraisers in South Florida say they routinely come under pressure to value houses for more than they are really worth. ‘From talking with appraisers in Southeast Florida, there are entire neighborhoods where all of the data is polluted,’ says Francois Gregoire, chairman of the Florida Real Estate Appraisal Board.”
“‘This is the worst I’ve seen it ever,’ says Doreen Campbell, a Davie appraiser who has been in the industry for more than 25 years.”
“Julio Suñe, an appraiser in Monroe County for more than 25 years, said he started shunning assignments from new mortgage companies after several of his appraisals were rejected and orders went unpaid. Other appraisers said the same.”
“Ron Schwartz, an appraiser in North Miami Beach notes that appraisers don’t care if a loan goes through because they get a flat fee. But they come under pressure from others who simply want a deal to go through or are involved in mortgage fraud.”
“‘We were getting calls from mortgage brokers, buyers, sellers and real estate agents,’ says Schwartz, who no longer does work for mortgage brokers. ‘They are screaming and yelling, ‘You appraised my property for $300,000, and we have a contract for $400,000 and you’re ruining our deal.’”
“Campbell reviewed another appraiser’s work for an appraisal management company. When she pointed out significant flaws, she claims her client stopped sending her work.”
“‘They don’t want the truth,’ Campbell says. ‘They kicked me off their list when I said, ‘It’s a bad appraisal and it should be turned in.’”
“Would-be mortgage brokers in Florida need little more than a weekend course to qualify for a license. And loan officers, who originate loans for mortgage lenders and banks, need no license at all.”
“‘Really, it’s too cheap and too easy to become a mortgage broker,’ says Steven Schneider, board member (of the) Florida Association of Mortgage Brokers. ‘I have recommended to the state to raise the cost from a few hundred bucks to $1,000 or more. If it’s not so easy to become one, chances are they won’t.’”
“A new law that takes effect in October will require brokers to have at least a high school education, and to give more detailed disclosures about adjustable-rate mortgages.”
“Jim Greer, president of Gold Coast real estate schools, is not sure stricter licensing requirements would work. He says current requirements are sufficient, and students who learn the laws still may not follow them.”
“‘What you see is greed getting in the way, and doing what they do to make the money,’ Greer says. ‘I don’t know if it’s a 24-hour course or a 60-hours course is going to make an impact.’”
“Underwriting practices for home loans have come under scrutiny in recent months, in light of widespread foreclosures and reports of mortgage fraud.”
“The job of an underwriter is to vet loan applications. But some consumers and investors are now complaining about home loans that got what amounted to rubber-stamp approvals during the real estate boom.”
“One reason for lax underwriting is that companies sell home loans down a chain of investors, and so have little incentive to make sure they are sound, says Dale Ledbetter of Fort Lauderdale-based Ledbetter & Associates.”
“Ledbetter’s firm has recently filed several lawsuits against Wall Street investment companies, alleging they failed to protect investors by properly scrutinizing loans.”
“Problems with underwriting grew largely out of the real estate boom, when lenders assumed, rightly, that rising property values would cover the cost of bad loans, says Juan Carlos Perdomo, VP of sales for Miami-based Verification Bureau. His company provides fraud prevention and data verification systems to mortgage lenders.”
“‘They didn’t want to look into very deep detail because they were concentrating more on getting the commission and getting the deal done,’ he says. ‘They weren’t looking at the long run.’”
“Lenders also faced manpower and time constraints, Perdomo says. The sheer volume of applications prompted some lenders to turn to automated underwriting systems rather than a set of eyes to comb through documents.”
“An audit by one lender showed that borrowers’ income was exaggerated by more than half in nearly 60 percent of its loans requiring no documentation.”
“‘If Wall Street had said, ‘We are going to be more careful about what we are going to take. We’re going to do more due diligence,’ then mortgage fraud would not have proliferated to the extent that it did,’ says attorney Ledbetter.”
“Despite the negative forecasts, now is a good time to buy, said Sean Donahue, VP of sales for HomeBanc in Deerfield Beach. With interest rates rising, those who wait will end up paying more for their houses, he said.”
First off, mortgage interest rates have not moved significantly in the last six months. But this is always a completely bogus argument, involving both the prediction of the direction of interest rates and their relationship to home prices.
More importantly, if now is such a good time to buy, why are more and more people so eager to sell? Wake me up when rents rise 100%.
Uhh….sir there is not more land being made, you better buy now! Last chance you better move or you are going to be priced out of the market, it will never come down. The media is just trying to post up bad news, the reality is that housing is the best investment you can make to your future.
Did I miss some?
I heard a good one this morning on the good ole weekend mortgage show on talk radio, “Having equity in your house is stupid”. You can have that equity in the bank, you can invest it into new RE, if it is in your house it does nothing for you. It was as if I would never have to pay it back and it wasn’t debt….he even said your house was an ATM….my jaw dropped just a tad.
I was listening to a mortgage talk show and they said the reason foreclosures are up is because home prices stopped going up. It wasn’t because of high home prices, but because homes stopped appreciating by 105 each year. In a sense they are right, but how much longer can home prices appreciate 10% every year before even Bill Gates couldn’t afford a 30yr fixed?
I hope the entire WS loan machine blows up and takes all the related jerkwads down. FL is on a countdown to implosion. In 3 months the entire state will be on its way to a large scale recession, and I will be LMAO! We americans are becoming just a bunch of lazy, arrogant sushi-sucking a$$holes!
Sushi is good, just have to endure the douche bags next to you at the bar while you sip soki and enjoy some good food. However, the best is to catch your own in Mexico and have the captain prepare some cevechi and shashimi on the way back in with a cold beer.
I guess everything else I own is bad too. This guy should work for FingerHut. http://www.fingerhut.com/Welcome.aspx?
Spatula, $7.99 or 4 easy financed payments of $2.50. Hhhmmmm, hhhmmmm, I’m thinking.
A friend of mine used to work for a collection agency, he siad he had to call and hassle people about their FingerHut accounts all the time.
And to second your comment Paul, in FL, the best time to buy is when interest rates are SKY HIGH.
Why?
In case nobody noticed, interest rates correlate to the price you pay for the home. Higher interest rates make for lower prices. Lower prices make for LOWER TAXES. And, because of SOH, you are forever promised the tax base that you start with.
People who buy during period of low interest are not really thinking ahead (assuming that prices have already inflated) about what they will do to their taxable burden. FL is a unique animal with taxation; everything depends on getting into the home with the lowest price possible recorded on the books. You do that during high interest rate periods.
Also, as everyone knows, you can refi the loan when IR drop. So, then you will have a home you underpaid for (because IR caused the price to fall when you purchased), that you are untaxed for (same reason) and with a low interest rate (after you refi). That’s the way, imho, that you should buy in FL.
Nice tight lending standards, high interest rates.. That’s what I want to buy into!
Michael Fink,
You just stated exactly the advice my grandfather gave.
I would add one more factoid. If interest rates go up, down payments will really matter. Prices cannot hold with fewer qualified buyers.
That negative savings rate tells me the pool who will compete with me is shrinking, not growing.
Got popcorn?
Neil
“I would add one more factoid. If interest rates go up, down payments will really matter. Prices cannot hold with fewer qualified buyers.”
Yes, and with all the zero downpayment programs pushed over the last few years, I think a lot of people have completely forgotten how to save for a downpayment. Saving $30K, $50K, etc. doesn’t happen in six months or a year. It can take several.
So as downpayments become the norm again, especially if it’s 10% or 20% required, it will take years before even qualified buyers will have that kind of money saved. Gas, groceries, health care, everything is sky high, making it that much harder to really sock it away for a house.
Absolutely, I have said this many times, often I am looked at like some kind of alien by friends, who respond, but that will make your payments higher. When I tell them prices will be lower to begin with, they are like don’t count on it. The facts are however that in times of high interest rates and tough credit qualification, those who have stayed out of debt and saved during the good times are the big winners.
You got that Right. My sister had a House Built in 1976. 5 Acres on top of a Hill. 3 story Tri-Level, 4 Bedroom, 3 Baths, Office, Theater and Game room, 4 decks covering 2000 sq ft, over looking Beautiful Hillside and River only 3 Mi from Town and nearest Neighbor a Half Mile away around a curve and unseen. 2 car Garage, Quarter Mile Paved Drivway and a 30 x 40 inground Pool.3 story stone Fireplace, Redwood and Stone Siding. The wallpaper in one Bathroom cost $2,600.
Then She moved for a Job. Interest Rates went to 21%. She tried renting it and it was a Nightmare. After 6 years worrying it would be Destroyed as No one could come up with the Money to Buy it, with Rates so High, she Sold it to my other Brother for $ 75 k.
High Interest Rates saved Him about 3/4 Mill.
Don’t forget that your downpayment will be worth “more” as house prices crash. Youd be able to pay back the loan much faster due to lower property taxes as well as lower principle owed. Even if your monthly payment is the same initially, youd be able to pay the loan back faster. You could also buy a condo or small starter house cheap enough to pay 100% in cash then save up for a few years before moving to a bigger house.
Additionally, if you buy in a high IR/low price environment, you’re more likely to see capital gains (if there are any to be had). Much more likely for prices to begin rising from that point.
I completely agree. My wife and I have been hoarding cash now for a year and a half, and by the middle of next year should cap 60K in cash not including the value of our modest home that is paid for. I fully expect to buy a home in a year in cash for at least 30 percent off the value from someone who subscribed to the group think of the this generation. Not having a mortgage is bliss, you can save money with pretty good interest (5.5%) like gangbusters. I laugh at salespeople who try and use interest free for x number of months as a sales pitch, then I start negotiating with cash money and usually end up knocking way more off the price than the interest savings could have possibly saved me, and I don’t have umpteen payments due at the end of the month. THINK OF YOUR GRANDPARENTS, THINK CASH IS KING, THINK DIFFERENT.
Plus, what are they supposed to buy with? Funny munny seems to be gone.
It’s still alive and kicking for all but the bottom rungs of the credit ladder.
When has an agent EVER said now is a bad time to buy?
Actually, I had an agent tell me this the other day on the phone. I told her I was looking for a rental and she said “great, DO NOT buy a house right now”. Needless to say, I was shocked and impressed with her honesty. Perhaps it had something to do with the fact she specializes in rental properties? lol. ☺
Actually, I had an agent tell me this the other day on the phone. I told her I was looking for a rental and she said “great, DO NOT buy a house right now”. Needless to say, I was shocked and impressed with her honesty. Perhaps it had something to do with the fact she specializes in rental properties? lol. ☺
LOL, after reading the articles this was the quote I was going to comment on so it’s funny seeing it as the first quote commented on.
I think this is my most reviled quote of all, even more than “RE always goes up” or “Their not making any more land.”
People are so quick to understand how prices eventually went up when rates went down and yet can’t seem to put it together that when rates go up prices will move lower. If incomes are truly stagnant, I can’t see housing prices not adjusting lower with higher rates.
(Oh, and “here here” to buying during high rate, low price periods.)
donahue is the new leader of atlantis (south florida) . he is going to take alot of people underwater with this quote!
“‘If Wall Street had said, ‘We are going to be more careful about what we are going to take. We’re going to do more due diligence,’ then mortgage fraud would not have proliferated to the extent that it did,’ says attorney Ledbetter.”
Question: how could Wall Street monitor the quality of loans? I mean, I know they’re rated by the lender, but if the lender isn’t excersizing due diligence on those ratings, how would WS know? Seems like all links in the chian have to be equal.
I agree with you lost in utah . The front line appraisers and underwriters are under duty to prevent fraud as well as prevent liar loans . Also ,Wall Street had a rating system that was based on models that do not work when real estate isn’t going up.
The industry should of questioned the appraisals going up that fast from 2004 onward when the fraud started up . Million dollar houses going up 500k in a year isn’t even acceptable . Both Wall Street and the front line lenders just accepted any appraisal as being where the market was at without any regard to fraud or that 100% financing would bring a unstable liar loan market .
I felt that in the beginning of 2006 that the lenders should of backed off because 2006 was a major year for cash-back fraud . How do you think the industry was getting the sales ? They were going after any Tom ,Dick, or Harry that was interested in cash-backs or bogus incentives .I hope the people that engaged in this fraud get their due .The lenders should not be allowing short sales until they find out where the cash-back money went . Any buyer that defaults within the first year should be under investigation along with the real estate agents ,lending company ,and appraiser .Also the Escrow and Title Company should open their books to the checks they cut . Also any money given back in the form of a commission pay back should be looked at . Since when does a investment company or a broker get a 30% commission in other words .
Hey, everyone was making a killing on this…
The buyers got a juicy cash back, the sellers got their price, the brokers got a hefty commish, the RE agents got their 6%+, the appraisers got paid off, the gvt got to jack up the property tax basis, consumer spending went up, the Wall Street big boys made billions repackaging all the CDO’s and MBS. It was a huge commish gravy train all the way.
….So who would want to stop the party?
Ok..enough complaining..Florida..all you do is that..the state has known for a long time that mortgage fraud existed..but when everyone is on the money rollercoaster ride and the $$ bills are coming in I agree with you, no one want to stop it..now like with everything elses..it is coming back to haunt them…SO FLORIDA DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT..just in the city of Coral Springs alone there have been at least 10 closed listings that sold anywhere from $10-$100K over listing price(in this market!).. and it happens even more among the higher priced homes..so who is doing the patrol on these agents, mortgage brokers and appraisers who are obviously working together to do this(who most of time are the same group of people who have gotten a reputation for doing this)? The evidence is right there..but one wants to do the work..so DON’T COMPLAIN FLORIDA for having the honor of being #1 in the COUNTRY for Mortgage Fraud you deserve the award!
Wait, 100k over listing….then you are telling me it is time to buy then, I mean facts are facts…where do I sign up for 100% financing? Sweet granite and flat screens here I come!
“Wait, 100k over listing….then you are telling me it is time to buy then, I mean facts are facts…where do I sign up for 100% financing? Sweet granite and flat screens here I come!”
Yes
Many homes in FL are selling for $100K over listing price. I have also been approached to buy.
This is cash back to buyer, mortgage, and seller in some cases. Then the buy walks away with as much as $50k in his pocket. He/she may do this dozens of times.
Geez, Michelle why don’t you let us know how you really feel? Frustrated? I hear ya. But I am not seeing what you are saying in C.S. While there are some sales happening, the sales have dried up in a big way. Yes, there are still people buying at high prices but for the most part, people aren’t buying at all. Like me.
When I first started tracking the market in this area, there were two and sometimes three pages of homes sold listed in the local rag. Last time I checked, it didn’t fill a whole page.
Anyways, I did my part — I did not vote for Charlie. Now we are stuck again with yet another moron running the state. If anything, the State is lucky to have those of us still willing to remain here. For now.
Simple: Wall Street does not package loans without verification of income, assets and credit history. It all must be documented. But they are not going to do it because that will hurt sales.
I have to tell you, even considering packaging a loan WITHOUT those things seems insane to me. What planet am I on? Is this an alternate reality?
Just the Wall Street gangsters up to their normal tactics. See the stock bubble, junk bond scam, s&l collapse, and great depression for more info.
I personally am rooting for an implosion on Wall Street. Nothing would make me happier. Bring it on.
This is all pretty telling report though, it will be really interesting when the big money out here in So Cal take the next upcoming hit. I mean yeah Florida is getting killed right now, however the prices on their housing pale in comparison to the bubble out here. So, when it hits out here it will be mind boggling, and the key word will be panic.
Agreed. Relationship between prices and rents, prices and income, as well as the average percentage appreciation in prices has been higher in CA than FL. Compare Bakersfield and Jacksonville, for example, or non-coastal San Diego County with non-coastal Broward or Dade counties. CA looks worse off in many ways.
Here in St George Ut, the bubble was mostly in the price of land. Now I see developments just covered in weeds, and most have 2 to 5 homes in a 20 lot developent. Land prices are still sticky, but soon the bank will come calling. Then these lots will sell at for 60% or 40k for a 1/4 acre. Right where they were before the bubble. So it looks like we are in for a big fall here in SoUtah.http://www.stgeorgeareaproperties.com/FREE%20Reports/market.data.htm
Didn’t most of the growth in St. George come from California retirees and equity locusts? If so, it’s bound to slow down, seeinjg what’s going on in the Golden State.
A little look at the St George market.
http://www.stgeorgeareaproperties.com/FREE%20Reports/market.data.htm
40K per acre? Even 60% of that, out there. You have to be kidding. There’s like, like, A LOT of space out there, and not a lot of people. Christ, there’s so much space you could probably just go build a house up around a canyon bend and no one would even find or tax it for 20 years. LOL
“An audit by one lender showed that borrowers’ income was exaggerated by more than half in nearly 60 percent of its loans requiring no documentation.”
Where is the surprise here? I understand some self employment types fall into a seasonal situation, or commissions may be sporadic for some, but even these situations can and should be scrutinized. It seems to me that by making a loan “no docs required” simply invites fraud. It is clear that those involved in these scams are either unaware just how serious it is to lie on a loan application or just don’t believe they will get caught. For those of us who would not engage in fraud, it has made it impossible to compete. How can an honest person compete where everyone else is cheating? The answer of course is by being patient and allowing the cheats to get burned out of the system, but it has made a huge mess of things in the mean time.
If everybody was cheating in a poker game would you play? Of course not. You get it right GH when you write about “being patient and allowing the cheats to get burned out of the system”. More and more chairs are opening up at the table. Once the table is empty then it will be time to start a new game with only honest players.
sorry for the uri mistake
I still cant get it right but here is another one. http://www.obeo.com/Public/Viewer/Default.aspx?ID=318935&resize=true&RefURL=Obeo.com
Yup. That’s Utah, alright.
And Good Lord!
oh.. utah.
thought it was another mistaken URL and i was misdirected to NASA’s mars lander site.
If those are my choices, I think I would take a SFH on Mars.
“Minutes from 2 proposed golf courses.”
I can just see two agents trying to write the flyer for this lizard lounge when one looks at the other and says, “Sir, I propose 2 golf courses!”
Don’t exaggerate about those golf courses being a myth. As you can clearly see in the photo, they’ve already started building the sand traps.
From “lessons learned” in the Bear Stearns CDO “matter”: How MANY minutes is this unobstructed-view property from the nearest golf course? (A “gazillion” is a lot of minutes, at $3+ per gallon).
Looks like a lot of people are going to walk away with a lot of cash from the mortgage fraud transactions. As long as a federal lender or insurer wasn’t involved, I don’t think the FBI will be that interested in pursuing the perps. And most (not all) state and local law enforcement agencies have little experience in investigating and prosecuting these kinds of cases.
Mortgage fraud probably ranks #2 right behind illegal drugs in terms of “revenue” to the perps.
Here’s the tricky part, IMHO: drug use is a victimless crime. It is deemed a crime not by popular vote, but by bureaucrats who are perpetually unable to eradicate it, but whose enforcers’ pensions are greatly fattened by their attempts to fight it (think Prohibition). Left alone, even with gov’t-run druggie houses (like the whore-houses in Hawaii during WWII), the problem and cost of drug interdiction would disappear.
Not so with mortgage fraud. If it were not the taxpayer on the hook, I would not care. But the taxpayer is on the hook. To me, then, mortgage fraud is not a victimless crime — at a minimum, the neighbors, whose comps are screwed, are victims. So are the neighbors whose values and quality of life are diminished by disappearing fraudster-owners, because the properties go to seed. Therein, the difference.
“A new law that takes effect in October will require brokers to have at least a high school education, and to give more detailed disclosures about adjustable-rate mortgages.”
This amazes me. “a high school education!!!” These individuals are responsible for potentially millions of dollars in transactions and the proposed bar is a high school education! How about at least a serious test to ensure competency in mathematics, and an accredited degree in a business related field? Even to become a building contractor you have to pass a test and prove you have five years of related work experience!
A stock broker has to pass the Series 7 and a mortgage broker needs a GED? WTF?
HAAAYY! High School is tough!
Forgot to ask, how many brokers got shanked doing the series 7?
‘He was kind of vague, he didn’t seem to want to talk about what he did.’”
i smell a rat.
“At the current sales pace, it would take about seven years to sell all those properties.”
Seven years is like a life sentence. Moreover, they are still building condos. South Florida is going to get hit with a cat 5 condo-cane!
And I think that the sever years is unwittingly prophetic. I thin that 7 years is the time it will take before we recognize out next bull market.
In ‘06, I tried to report some fraudulent transactions that I saw going on in our MLS. Deals where the property had been sitting for months and then suddenly sold for $100k over asking. The board of realtors didn’t give my concerns the time of day. It was so easy to spot, and yet the realtor boards LET it go on right under their noses. I hope that they get dragged into all the litigation that is, no doubt, coming. They had a fiduciary responsibility to protect the public and their credibility of their data, and they didn’t.
I agree deb if you look at my comments..Living in Florida is knowing that you can get away with pretty much anything and not have to pay any serious consequences for it..So I don’t feel sorry for those that live in the communities that it hurts because the state isn’t willing to take action..and the citizens of the states don’t complain enough to make it worth addressing in the goverment..wait until it results in some violence..some poor homeowner takes it out on someone..then in true Florida fashion they will address the issue..
I agree deb if you look at my comments..Living in Florida is knowing that you can get away with pretty much anything and not have to pay any serious consequences for it..
Michelle…You are incorrect in your assumptions. Those who commit a crime in the State of Florida do often get caught and punished. What you do not hear about in the papers and on this blog are the numerous investigations going on behind the curtain. Thoses criminal investigations are confidential and are not made public. I can assure you, that you would not want to be in the shoes of the person facing a criminal investigation in the state of Florida. The wheels of justice often moves slow, but it does prevail in the end. Those who did commit criminal fraud, theft, etc tied to the realestate problems will soon be finding out that crime does not pay in Florida. If you do not believe me, come to our fine state and commit a felony and see what happens to you. If you have already or were involved in such criminal actions, it is just a matter of time before you are contacted…..that is contacted when the warrant is served.
I was thinking of having a crime watch letter go out. Maybe have a friend program something to filter out all of the suspicious recent sales and start sending those to whoever needs to start looking at this stuff. And then start posting on For Sale Signs that every transaction from this point will be looked at by the neighborhood crime watch for any suspicious activity; such as not paying property tax, paying well over past sales, etc.
Just like our neighbor has done by reselling the house to themselves for $400k more 4 months after moving in and not paying property tax for over 1 year. People might be less interested in buying in this area if this started to happen.
“Just like our neighbor has done by reselling the house to themselves for $400k more 4 months after moving in and not paying property tax for over 1 year.”
ExCUSE me?? They did WHAT? Ugh!
BayQT~
the interesting part is that I was trying to figure out what happened. Now I realize it. Just have someone buy a place. Then have your relative buy it for $200k more. Then just keep repeating every 4-6 months until you can no longer do this. This must be something I am seeing in my area. There is some pricing around here that makes me very upset. And just imagine a whole family doing a laddering system of houses like this!!! How easy.
Sorry for those who know this already… call it a knowledge payback.
Your form-letter idea is a good one, and wouldn’t be hard at all using MS Word and Excel (or Access). In MS-speak, it’s called a mail merge. The tricky part is compiling your target list. If MLS will let you export searches to an external file, then you are all set.
You want that data in Excel (or Access), each horizontal record with cells broken down as: ‘first name’, ‘middle’, ‘last name’, ’street’, ‘city’, ’state’, ‘zip’.
In Word, start a mail-merge (somewhere in the Tools menu depending on version). It’ll seem foreign until you’ve done it a few times. Select the address database you created above. Each column in that file is considered a field - whenever you want data from the list to appear in your form-letter just select that field from the mail-merge tool. For example:
,
Dear Mr.
As I concerned citizen with access to the MLS, I noticed your recent purchase of in the zip code……….
Once you’ve drafted your letter, tell the mail-merge to print and it will automatically print copies for everyone in your list. Same process for your envelopes.
oops, the character I used to represent fields was excluded as an html-tag. Here’s that example again:
(First) (Last)
(Street)
(City), (State) (ZIP)
Dear Mr. (LAST)
As a concerned citizen with access to the MLS, I noticed your recent purchase of (STREET) in the (ZIP) zip code……….
P.S. if you lived in Louisiana between ‘98 - ‘00 and ever received political mailings, my apologies
This reminds me….has paladin checked in with any progress on the morgage fraud in Sacto, CA? I remember he had to go underground because of investigations and his working with official types, but has he surfaced lately?
BayQT~
Could someone please tell me, when is it NOT a good time to buy? i would like to tell each and every real estate flim flam people, that it is a good time to buy when the average worker can afford a house with 1 to 1.5 weeks pay at a 30 year fixed monthly. i know people that require 3.5 weeks to pay monthly, they too have a 30 year fixed, however they bought at the top of the bubble.
in the heart of it
sarasota phil
Given the worst housing slump in nearly two decades, home builders and condo developers are now jumping to pay your property taxes, homeowners insurance and even college tuition as incentives to buy a new home or condo.
The developer of two condo projects in Tampa offers to pay a semester’s worth of tuition at the University of South Florida for home buyers.
Nah! Just lower the price, jerko!
Got granite?
The bad news is it’s “the worst housing slump in nearly two decades”. The good news is that it isn’t (yet) the worst Florida housing slump in 8 decades.
I have a question to Florida folks.
What this apartment in West Palm Beach would rent for on year round basis and on seasonal basis ?
http://tinyurl.com/3×8ugh
Also, what insurance, taxes and maintenance fees would be for that ?
Thanks.
Anyone thinking of Buying a Condo or apartment anywhere coastal in Fl as an investment would Be insane right Now. There is like a 7 year supply right now and still building. But if You really want to know, here ya go.
Taxes in most of Florida run 2% plus per Year. Mine runs 2.4. And RE is Appraised at 95% min. So 7 K per Yr Taxes.
Taxes 7 K, insurance at least 3k ( prob More), Hoa Fees can run from 200 Mo to 700 Mo Depending on the Development. Say 350 avg or 4K per Year.
So Your looking at 14K per year Min Carrying costs, not including any Up keep on the inside , and not including Mortgage. Rents are Dropping faster then prices, especially Condos. a 2 BR I would imagine
would be lucky to get a good renter at 800 or 900 mo. this Year and who Knows about next.
This is food for thought. If RE in Florida as such a Great ” Investment” why is it all for Sale? A builder or Contractor can Build that house or Condo lots cheaper then You can buy it for for. so if You can make any Money, He should be able to get Rich easy. Why keep Building and working for labor?
If a Builder can build and Buy for 30 or 40% less than You , if condos were such a great Money Maker He could Just Build 100 or so Condo’s, Rent them out , and Retire on the easy Riches. Money would be no Problem as the banks would know this was a no lose Proposition.
When someone is trying to sell such an Easy Money Maker. Ask Yourself why?
Agree with the general tone of this post, but these are in fact large, relatively new units in a close-in location in WPB and would command considerably more rent than 800-900.
Yes , I could be a Little low if these units are More special then they looked from the Pics. But I’ve seen Gorgeous almost New, 3/2
waterfront Townhouses going for $1100 which looked Far Better than these. You’d have to be there , but I can’t imagine I be Far off. I saw 2/2 waterfronts that were $1050, Dropped to 950 with a Months Free Rent.
I’m just saying with this Market , as an Investor I would figure on the Low Side. I’ve seen rents in some parts of Florida drop 25% so Far. One House was Giving a New 37 Inch Lcd Tv for a signed Year Lease.
So Your looking at 14K per year Min Carrying costs, not including any Up keep on the inside , and not including Mortgage. Rents … a 2 BR I would imagine would be lucky to get a good renter at 800 or 900 mo.
If a property cannot be rented for more than carrying costs, even if it’s mortgage-free, its true value is…. ZERO.
I don’t know why tinyurl link does not work.
Here is the original one:
http://www.keyes.com/search/properties/residential/details.aspx?ListingNo=3294415&searchCode=uLu1VXJfL
“The association is dealing with an increasingly familiar problem in the Tampa Bay area as the housing bubble deflates. Many expensive homes were financed for 100 percent of the purchase price and are now falling into foreclosure and disrepair because the absentee owners can’t - or won’t - make the hefty mortgage payments.”
Not only don’t they make the mortgage payments, they don’t make the HOA or condo association payments, either. The fees that are unpaid are then apportioned among the paying association members. Then, when the bank takes the property back in foreclosure, the banks don’t have to pay, either. No one pays until a new owner purchases the property. So Floridians not only foot the bill for higher taxes and insurance, but they foot the bill for the fees of homes in foreclosure.
If the homeowners have an issue about preserving their properties then actions speak louder than words..get your lazy butts together and MOW THE LAWNS..for the 20 min it would take and the protection of your INVESTMENT you would think that would occur to them.. if they are not going to do anything physical about the problem then DON’T COMPLAIN…Typical Floridians.COMPLAIN,COMPLAIN,COMPLAIN..tropical sun makes them so LAZY…
“The sellers of both houses mortgaged in Dennard’s name say the person they dealt with was not Dennard, but a man named Tommy Watts. ‘He called himself an investor,’ said Robert Learned, one of the sellers. ‘He was kind of vague, he didn’t seem to want to talk about what he did.’”
Riiiiiight. He was vague until it came time to talk about how the cash back at closing would be handled, right Mr. Learned? Time to haul these sellers in for questioning by the feds. These deals are rotten to the core.
“We americans are becoming just a bunch of lazy, arrogant sushi-sucking a$$holes!”
A-r-e becoming?
“Public records show that the home was purchased in November for $1,050,000, almost $275, 000 more than for comparable sales during the peak of the real estate boom in 2004-2005. The property was financed for the full amount by Virgil Dennard, who showed a California driver’s license as identification.”
This kinda shit is out there in spades.
Any of you finance whiz’s care to give us all a derivative formula relative to the financial dimension and volume of default’s in computing a tranche’s risk relative to examples like the above?
“‘This is the worst I’ve seen it ever,’ says Doreen Campbell, a Davie appraiser who has been in the industry for more than 25 years.”
Really, Doreen? How astute…
Since you’re still in business, and given the competition, how numbers have you punched over the last 4 years?
“Public records show that the home was purchased in November for $1,050,000, almost $275, 000 more than for comparable sales during the peak of the real estate boom in 2004-2005. The property was financed for the full amount by Virgil Dennard, who showed a California driver’s license as identification.”
No fraud here folks. Nothing to see. Move along now……
Test
Tons of homes for sale in my area (Huntington Beach, CA). Signs are just about everywhere. Don’t see any sold signs either.
The crash is starting in Southern California.
Every day it becomes more and more clear that regulation is desperately needed in this industry. Even the “any regulation is bad regulation” crowd on this board who were mainly blaming the buyers have quieted down lately.
The gangsters on Wall Street and massive corruption are what brought this debacle on. The average Joe played a much smaller part.
This is no longer refutable. Regulation and lots of it are badly needed in this industry.
it becomes more and more clear that regulation is desperately needed
I ammend that: GOOD regulation is needed. Neither the pols in DC nor those in CA are capable of writing good, balanced regulation. Anythin written now would be a sham, a fraud, and pointless.
*GOOD* regulation = make sure a borrower is able to pay back the loan over the life of the loan, based upon the original terms of the loan.
How’s that?
From the Miami Herald…It’s hard to regulate the MLS, a private database that about 48,000 people in Southeast Florida are authorized to use. But some real estate offices in South Florida have taken measures to prevent their agents from using the MLS to cover up fraudulent sales.
About eight months ago, Coldwell Banker stopped allowing its agents to raise listing prices in the system without the approval of a manager. At Douglass Elliman Florida, only one person in the office, an administrator, is allowed to handle listings. Changes in listing prices require written notice from all parties involved, and such requests are scrutinized.
”Very few could be honest buyers,” says sales manager Judith Corocs. “If they need the credits at closing, they can get an equity line once they purchase the property, instead of doing it this way. I’ve seen people asking for $250,000 or $300,000 back. It’s very illegal
That is so laughable..HELLO OUT THERE.forget about raising the asking price for the property..LOOK AT THE CLOSING..If a home is listed for 1.2 and CLOSES for 1.3 in this market(no extras included nonsense) then SOMETHING FUNNY WENT ON…It is the closing in the MLS that they have to look at..and as far as COLDWELL BANKER..please those brokers don’t say one word..in this market they need to $$ to keep their office going…some of the homes that closed WAY ABOVE asking price were with what agents? COLDWELL BANKER..BINGO
Venetian Isles! Say it ain’t so!
“Despite the negative forecasts, now is a good time to buy, said Sean Donahue, VP of sales for HomeBanc in Deerfield Beach. With interest rates rising, those who wait will end up paying more for their houses, he said.”
I disagree. He has it backwards. The longer people wait to sell their houses, the more they’ll lose. The way I see it, as interest rates rise, the price of the house falls. The way this guy thinks, the payment will rise. Yeah, right! These people have it all ass backwards.
He knows damn well that prices will fall as interest rates rise, which is exactly why he wants you to buy now.
Just got another spam seminar invitation to attend “100 Trends in Seniors Housing Seminars” for $460 ($1498 full rate). Assuming this is not an outright ripoff of the enrollment fee (likely), it looks like they’re trolling for more GF’s…
I am hoppin’ in my car and hurrying up to Hurricane to buy that property. Then I can subdivide it and sell it as Martian Land close to home. Proposed golf courses? There are already enough holes in the landscape that the golf course is already done. If this isn’t a bubble, then what is? And I am from UT originally. Hurricane is in the middle of nowhere. It always has been, and always will be.
I still can’t get over that plot. $90 grand for your very own piece of the desert! Hold me back! Somebody, please?
I’m wondering how the hell the plan on irrigating one course, much less two. I’m imagining the average resident’s water bill exceeding the electric - WHO could possibly think this is a good idea?
I had to laugh when I saw this one where the buyer presented a CA drivers license ““The sellers of both houses mortgaged in Dennard’s name say the person they dealt with was not Dennard, but a man named Tommy Watts. ‘He called himself an investor,’ said Robert Learned, one of the sellers. ‘He was kind of vague, he didn’t seem to want to talk about what he did.’”
In my mind I could picture Tommy Watts as Crispy from Bakersfield, CA. After all, I remember the picture in the paper of him posing alongside his new jet. Wouldn’t that be a hoot and a hollywood movie.
As a south FL resident, I read about price drops daily. Not that I even have a good reason to stay in FL and even if I do, north FL is far more appealing. What are your predictions of house price drops in south? north? FL. What will the greedy FL politicans do with property taxes as house prices drop greatly and they don’t get their tax windfall? I fear they will raise taxes elsewhere or raise the property tax millage. If they pull any BS like that, millions more will say Bye to FL. Theres over a dozen other states that look good, Tennessee for one.
“Despite the negative forecasts, now is a good time to buy, said Sean Donahue, VP of sales for HomeBanc in Deerfield Beach. With interest rates rising, those who wait will end up paying more for their houses, he said.”
Sean, DO THE MATH! Those who wait will end up paying less for their houses after you do the math comparing costs. Those who BS the public will be out of business!