A Bad Weather Market For Sellers
Providence Business News reports from Rhode Island. “John Sinnott, managing director of Providence operations for Struever Bros., said in an interview that the company has decided to drop plans for 78 condominiums in the $80 million project, opting to market all of the development’s 249 units as rentals. Sales of the units never took off. ‘There’s just been a turn in the market,’ Sinnott said. ‘We’ve been talking about it for years, and it finally came.’”
“Struever is not the only developer to drop or scale down condo plans. Blue Chip Properties and Granoff Associates, developers of the One Ten Luxury Residences, announced in January that they would scrap 60 of the planned 130 condos in the Westminster Street project, and add a hotel to the building instead.”
“Colin Kane, principal of East Providence-based The Peregrine Group, said there ’seems to be a glut’ of condos, and many lenders are shying away from new developments.”
“‘What I’ve been telling my real estate agents is make sure you have all of your condominiums aggressively priced,’ broker Meredyth Church said.”
The Concord Monitor from New Hampshire. “Drive down some Concord streets, and it seems like an exodus is underway. The ‘For Sale’ signs seem to be everywhere. Since some owners sell their homes themselves or use internet services, it’s impossible to say exactly how many are on the market.”
“In May, 4.7 percent more people put their houses on the market than in May of 2006. The average Merrimack County home took 25 days longer to sell. That kept signs on lawns much longer, so people saw them more often.”
“More homes for sale, plus higher interest rates and property tax bills, caused prices in Merrimack County to fall an average of 2.9 percent, from January to May. But prices still are far from affordable for the young workers the state’s economy needs to prosper.”
The News Times from Connecticut. “William Gonzalez of Bridgeport said he started with a dream to buy his first home. He told the brokers and lenders he used he could afford a monthly payment of $1,200 to $1,800. What he ended up with was a $2,400-a-month mortgage for a house he’s going to lose in a month.”
“Tuesday at the state Capitol, Gonzalez told the Governor’s Task Force on Sub-Prime Mortgage Lending about a baffling process involving real estate agents, brokers, lenders, and even a lawyer, none of whom was representing his interests.”
“He said negotiations started with him saying what he could afford, and brokers showing him a $315,000, three-bedroom house and telling him he could afford it. He qualified for the loan, which they found for him. He agreed, made a down payment, and when all the paperwork was done, he discovered he was buying a $324,000 house.”
“What all this will mean for Connecticut’s economy remains unclear. ‘In Connecticut it’s not worse than the nation, probably,’ Fairfield University economics professor Edward Deak said. ‘But it’s not better.’”
“‘Mortgage lenders saw an opportunity to make a lot of money off of people who are less sophisticated when it comes to loans,’ he said.”
“The clients were told they could handle the loans and refinance later. What they were not told is if the home they bought lost value, it would be nearly impossible to refinance.”
The News Journal from Delaware. “Foreclosure filings in Delaware rocketed to a record high over the past year, up 29.5 percent from the previous year, court records show. Delaware filings for the month of June were higher than any month of the year in all three counties.”
“‘Most of these stories are very sad, whether it’s a medical bill or divorce or just, ‘My God, what did we do? We can’t afford this!’ said Loretta Forsythe-Walsh, chief deputy of the New Castle County Sheriff’s Office.”
“And it may get worse. ‘Most people are expecting foreclosures to peak early next year,’ said Gerry Kelly, Delaware’s deputy bank commissioner for consumer affairs. ‘Next year is not going to look any better.’”
“Homeownership ballooned in the past decade as lenders loosened up on standards, offering mortgages to people with shaky credit and introducing creative financing that allowed people to buy a home that they otherwise couldn’t afford. ‘There were more people in that middle-income class range that were really stretching to buy a home in this last run-up,’ said Ira Goldstein, policy director for a Philadelphia-based firm that has studied Delaware foreclosures.”
“When housing prices were climbing, homeowners could re-finance or sell the property if they were in over their heads. But once the housing bubble fizzled, it became more difficult to sell, refinance or tap into home equity.”
The Baltimore Sun from Maryland. “Metro area home prices advanced nearly 5.5 percent in June, led by Baltimore City where the average price breached the $200,000 mark for the first time, statistics released yesterday showed.”
“But with sales volume dropping at a double-digit rate and listings continuing to mount, economists said that the price gain likely was the result of a shift to more expensive homes rather than a sign that the housing slump was nearing an end.”
“That’s because it’s the pricier homes that are selling, both in the city and suburbs, said economist Anirban Basu, CEO of Baltimore-based Sage Policy Group Inc.”
“‘At the higher end, there continues to be a race for superior properties as [buyers] compete against each other,’ he said. ‘The homes that are selling are disproportionately higher-end homes.’”
“Those looking for an end to the housing slump will have to wait longer, Basu said.”
“‘I think that the down cycle in housing has a bit farther to run, probably through the balance of 2007 and into 2008,’ he said. ‘There is so much active inventory…and with so much product competing for buyers’ attention, buyers are in no rush to purchase a home with reasonably average amenities.’”
“Every jurisdiction posted fewer sales. Carroll had the sharpest drop, nearly 18 percent, while Howard County’s decline was the smallest at 7.29 percent.”
“Listings swelled to a record of nearly 20,000, as only 3,197 sales contracts were signed.”
“‘Buyers are not as pressed to work something out,’ said broker Pat Hiban. ‘It used to be people would find a house they fell in love with first and negotiate second. They were going to work the deal out. Now they’re negotiating first and deciding second.’”
“Real estate agents said they are urging their seller clients to heed the market.”
“‘Our marketplace right now is like a bad weather market for sellers,’ said John Toner, a broker in Columbia. ‘If you make a mistake in this market, you’ll be punished for it more severely than in the last few years. Buyers have a lot more to choose from; they are being a lot pickier, and they have almost no sense of urgency.’”
“‘Buyers are not as pressed to work something out,’ said broker Pat Hiban. ‘It used to be people would find a house they fell in love with first and negotiate second. They were going to work the deal out. Now they’re negotiating first and deciding second.’”
- Sorry Pat, you are wrong as usual. When I bought my first two homes the normal thing to do was bring in a ‘Down Payment’ and finance the first trust deed.
I’m still confused, who is supposed to feel sorry for the “hard luck” foreclosure stories of poor victims who lived like kings for a couple of years on the somebody else’s buck?
Absolutely, and had the market contiinued upwards at 20% a year would these “victims” all be lining up to give back their ill gotten gains? I think not. they gambles on prices going up and lost. When you gamble you have to be prepared to win and lose!
Like the woman on Nightline last night. She’s suing because her condo is worth $100k less than when she put her downpayment on it. She “thinks” it’s 50 sq ft less than what they promised, so she’s suing, because that square footage was expensive. When the commentator asked her if she’d be suing if it had gone up $100k, she said no, because “get this” it would be worth more per sq ft. then and she could get her money out.
“He said negotiations started with him saying what he could afford, and brokers showing him a $315,000, three-bedroom house and telling him he could afford it. He qualified for the loan, which they found for him. He agreed, made a down payment, and when all the paperwork was done, he discovered he was buying a $324,000 house.”
Wait a second…they guy negotiated to buy a house and didn’t know the price until after signing all the paperwork? How exactly did that work?
Who cares, the foreclosure is just as fair for him as the lender. They both will likely lose money. I just wish there was some way to dock the RE agent and the mortgage broker as well. On the other hand, they ate their seed corn, so they’re going to go hungry too due to a lack of future business. Hopefully people will remember the few people in those business lines who gave them good advise and shun the crooks. If it’s like politics, though, they’ll keep going to the same old liars over and over again. Past performance means nothing against rosy scenario promises, I guess.
The problem here is the lender (as in the loan backer) was the mark. The degree to which the borrower and the broker were complicit in fraud should be investigated and charges filed if appropriate.
I agree with you GH . The final mark is the loan investor ,who was told this loan paper was investment grade . Did the industry factor in their models mass fraud by the industry with these loan applications ? When you have realtors and front line loan agents helping the borrowers knowingly or unknowingly commit fraud ,than you have a factor that wasn’t figured in the models of the rating agency on this junk loan paper . Why don’t they just put 6 year olds on loan applications and create a real estate market ?
315K–Affordable!
324K–Foreclosure!
give me a break
I think the price difference was a side point — that various fees etc. can get added into a mortgage before closing, and the person getting the mortgage is often not aware that this is going on until signing. And it’s only a few thousand bucks, so why make trouble?
The guy clearly got caught in a loan with a teaser rate that he could afford, but an adjusted rate that he could not. A guy who’s thinking about mortgages like this is thinking of them like car payments, which (so far) don’t often have “teaser” rates.
Oft-heard advice when taking out any loan — do NOT base your decision on the monthly payment, but on the actual price of what you are buying, applying reasonable rules (e.g. that the TOTAL cost of the house should not be more than 3X current income, maybe a little more in high-demand areas where the economy is good.)
I would say total cost of the loan should not be more than 2.5X income. If you’re making $100K/yr, but have $200K to put down, then there’s really no reason you can’t afford a $400K place with a $200K loan - if that’s what you want to do with that $200K.
It takes 5 minutes on the internet to figure a monthly payment on a certain mortgage amount. If their figures don’t jive, don’t sign, it’s as simple as that.
I bet the broker had the lender throw in closing costs on the mortgage without telling the buyer. He just told him “you can afford this”.
Providence has never had many Condos. Then they started to do old factory/mill conversions. (Not a bad use of dead space. Prices climbing.) Then they started the cheapo 3 family conversions. (Bought 3-families as rentals 3 years ago at 99-120K and sell each “exclusive” condo unit for $120K+ ) Then at the top there were 3-4 large new highend projects in the groundbreaking stage ($275K-425K, Up to $2M)
All in less than 5 years. Just in the City of Providence.
I wonder why someone might have to scale back high end when the Providence’s (2006) Median Family Income is $35,135 (cnnmoney.com)
In 2006, the Providence Journal reported…”A $75,000 income … buys a median-priced single-family house in just three communities “
I am wondering that if these condos are too expensive for people to buy how are they going to rent them. Unless the selling price was really inflated, but if that was true then they could simply lower the prices a lot and still sell. How many people in Providence can afford to rent what is supposedly a “($275K-425K, Up to $2M)” apartments?
As far as I can see the numbers don’t work out whether you are selling or renting at these prices unless you have a pool of buyers/renters who make enough money to buy or rent them.
RI used to be the “affordable” state in the NE. There are really nice places in RI that used to be somewhat affordable. I usually go to a sushi place in north providence called Ran-Zan, for those that enjoy sushi, and on my way I drive through Pawtucket. Granted that there are some places of Pawtucket where you really need a brinks truck, but the south end next to Providence is full of gorgeous houses that have been very well kept. In 10 years of going there I have seen 1 for sale sign. Supposedly a very stable neighborhood. This weekend I saw at least 15 and a couple of Auction signs! I dare not enquire about said houses as the last I saw sold 2 years ago for 450K!….
I would not live there, but when long time established neighborhoods look like flipperville, then I am afraid of becoming the next zimbabwe.
Bit off topic, and probably already posted, but these charts from Credit Suisse are scary as hell.
http://www.recharts.com/reports/CSHB031207/CSHB031207.html
“Ivy” League Stuff
They dropped a bomb yesterday with S&P saying subprime is now junk, and the market is up today….billions upon billions of dollars *poof* gone, some say trillions…and we have a positive market today. I don’t get it, I guess it is just like housing instead of correcting and making adjustments to the market to ease the pain, we are still in Stepford and it is all smiles and rainbows…then we will get plowed under all at once? I just don’t get it, whatever it will correct hard now.
Patricio, it is all smoke and mirrors. I have talked in the last week with one bank branch manager and a guy who just started an RE business and both tell me…
CASH IS KING!
Everything else walks right now.
near as i can figure whenever some negative factor is uncovered and aired out, investors take for granted it’ll be fixed and the market will, therefore, be healthier in the future.. so it goes up.
“More homes for sale, plus higher interest rates and property tax bills, caused prices in Merrimack County to fall an average of 2.9 percent, from January to May. But prices still are far from affordable for the young workers the state’s economy needs to prosper.”
Rising taxes are going to kill home prices. You can afford the house but not the taxes. What gives - the price of the home…
Property taxes in New Hampshire are unbelievably high.
Want a really cheap and nice house?
http://dallas.craigslist.org/rfs/371242704.html
There still are places where prices are reasonable. I doubt that there are any jobs that pay more than $10/hr in that town, though, and Omaha looks pretty far away.
Colorado,
This was in my inbox today. It’s not NE, but SD is just as cheap. A number of people I know here in the DC area have contacts in SD. Probably the defense-related thing.
“RAPID CITY Defense giant Northrop Grumman will open a new office this month in Rapid City. Eventually, the company could employ as many as 50 software engineers, database architects and other technicians here.”
I have a librarian friend who send me a job posting for a public librarian (7+ years higher ed. required) job in this expensive humid D.C. town. It paid 30K.
txchick,
Me. You find the best stuff.
tx, one of these days I might just buy one of these you post. i remember the house in Canada that you posted several months ago. Keep them coming. This one looks like a winner. I am so ready to pull the trigger on this one. Then again, I am one of the uberdoomers who think we will be back to a farming economy in the not so distant future, so this would could work out.
Got plow?
Verdigre, NE aka “The Kolach Capital of the world”
Pop: 519
Median household income : $21,667
“Kolaches are sold in the local bakery..”
From the map it looks like most sorts of services are about 100 miles away.. but to each his own.
TX, this place is fine and dandy, but in the middle of nowhere. I am in the Omaha area and I have never even heard of that town. Bet you couldn’t make the payment on that, a car, a cell phone, insurance, food, and utilities all in the same month on a salary there. Probably find a place to rent for $350.
I think it kinda looks like Hemingford Home.
Anyone remember that?
“why you all come by anytime. And I still make my own biscuits.” - Mother Abigail
I had to click Google maps out to 20 mile resolution before I saw a city I recognized… Sioux City, IA, is only a mere 117 miles away.
“….where wild turkeys and deer roam….”
Nothing special about turkeys……see them all the time around here (Shawnee County Kansas)., even on the outer edges of town. They have evidently lost their fear of humans, or at least when they are in their cars
housing slump is not over:
http://tinyurl.com/3anaqz
“The housing correction, which looked poised to bottom earlier this year, is back on a downward course,” acknowledged Aaron Smith of Moody’s Economy.com in West Chester, Pa.
In analyst-speak, confirming the latest dead cat sighting. One of many to go…
Where do these analysts go to school? Upon what hard empirical evidence did Mr. Smith base his assumption the market would bottom early this year?
Interest rates were projected to go down (NOT)
EZ Credit was making a big comeback (NOT)
Foreclosure numbers were in decline (NOT)
Housing Inventory was starting to drop (NOT)
??????????
Totally unrelated question:
Does anyone remember seeing a slide show online that was produced, I believe, either in 2004 or 2005 where the slides showed the last decline in Southern California in the early to mid 90s? I believe the slides color-coded the zipcodes in the area and showed the rate of decline (and rate of increase) over the years.
If someone could point this to me it would be much appreciated. I had some yahoo that lives around Newport Beach who bought a house in 2005 (a moveup house so he’s not totally screwed) who told me in a few years he’ll “laugh at me” as he’s “walking away with all my capital gains.”
If someone knows what I’m talking about, it would be much appreciate if you can shoot me a link. Thanks.
BW: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2007/db20070710_849291.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_businessweek+exclusives
The overall tone of consumer spending sentiment is sounding a lot like the housing market view of six months ago…a little worry and fret but hey! it only goes up, right? Just a silly guess, but this Friday’s Retail Sales report will probably be ok, say a 2.5-3% gain. It’s August 13th where I think the action is, and a negative number is a real possibility leading to a major confirmation of an economy in decline. Another Black Monday anyone?
Black Monday?
I’m for a poetic Friday the 13th.
Got popcorn?
Neil
I was looking at the forclosure notices in my newspaper this week. On many of them, it listed how much the mortgage and the “initial interest rate” were plus the date of the mortgage. Many of these mortgages were one year old! Also, the “initial interest rates” were generally in the 8%+ range. How can people lose their homes before the interest rate even resets? I am assuming these were people without a decent credit rating if they had to get an 8+ interest rate when 6 is still being offered.
If you buy a $600,000 home on a $12,000 salary, you can’t even make the 1st payment.
And then… there’s this:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/070711/usa_mortgages_mba.html?.v=3
Article says this includes refinance applications. Could be driven by people trying to refinance out of ARMs.
sohonyc
Wasnt that article link you posted re mort apps increasing covered last week?
I seem to recall a thought about the application increase is due mainly to many more people not qualifying as easily as in the past, hence the result of many more applications.
Of course the cheerleaders spin this as resurgent strong demand.
Good link, soho, thanks.
There’s many, many rejected loan applications. Probably 3 or 4 times the applications that are accepted.
I hate to call people names but another idiot investor.
Purchases a home for $1.1 millon puts it on the market 2 days ago for $1.3 million which happens to be 300k more then the comparable house 2 doors away? I’m suppose to feel sorry for him when the marshalls put up the forclosure notice which we all know is coming in Jan 08′?
….. told the brokers and lenders heed he could afford a monthly payment of $1,200 to $1,800. What he ended up with was a $2,400-a-month mortgage for a house he’s going to lose in a month.
Tuesday at the state Capitol, Gonzalez told the Governor’s Task Force on Sub-Prime Mortgage Lending …..
So what does this have to do with sub-prime lending? Are we to believe Alt-A borrowers can’t have the same problem? So everyone who has good credit can afford a $2400/month payment? Nobody misled Alt-A borrowers?
Dead-cat bounce in bond yield curve = higher mortgage rates to come…
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates/index.html
“‘It’s a buyer-seller standoff,’ said Michele Williams, a real estate broker, as she sought to reconcile higher prices with lower sales numbers. ‘Nothing’s really selling.’”
A Stand-Off??? I’m prepared to wait another 3 years or more. How you Mr. Seller / FB? How long can you hold on? .
I have cash and I have time. What do the FBs have?
“What do the FBs have?”
High cash burn rates.
Evolution of definitions — “Leaning into the wind”
Then: Fed raises interest rates to take away punch bowl before Wall Street party gets out of control.
Now: Fed suppresses interest rates to spike punch bowl in order to forestall recession and keep party going on Wall Street.