August 2, 2007

For Sale Signs Are Becoming More Like Yard Ornaments

Las Vegas Now reports from Nevada. “The recent troubles in mortgage lending mean foreclosed homes are flooding the market. They’re also making it tougher for other sellers who were hoping to make a profit selling their home. You can usually buy foreclosed homes for less than a regular house for sale. That’s good news for the buyer, but bad news for sellers trying to compete with bank prices.”

“Eyewitness News looked at a five bedroom home in northwest Las Vegas that has never been lived in. It was supposed to be a big help for Kathy and Michael Lowry. Michael Lowry said, ‘Biggest real estate boom in the history of the United States, we couldn’t go wrong. We needed to send our kids through college and we thought it was a great deal.’”

“A year and a half later, they’re still waiting all while continuing to pay their interest-only loan.”

“Kathy Lowry said, ‘The frustration level in our household has been through the roof. And it’s been the first time I’ve had to tell my kids that no, we can’t go to the movies because I’ve got to pay for this house that we are not living in right now that’s not selling.’”

“Eight foreclosure homes in their subdivision, all with similar square footage, have forced the Lowry’s to drop their price. Still, they can’t compete with bank prices of almost $100,000 less than they’re asking.”

“Real estate broker Cameron Yates-DeAngelo said, ‘If you are out looking for a home, which home are you going to select? These folks that are trying to sell their home legitimately, they are taking a hard hit.’”

“The Lowry’s are now looking to rent out the house just to help with payments, but it still won’t be enough. ‘I’m depending now on my retirement, which is being bled down and I won’t even have that money as an option for college because it’s basically become a money pit here.’ said Michael Lowry.”

“Eyewitness News is taking a closer look at how the nation slump in the housing market is affecting the Las Vegas Valley. It’s estimated that close to 30-percent of the homes on the local market right now are foreclosed homes.”

“Recently, one of the top zip codes for foreclosures in the nation was in North Las Vegas zip code 89031.”

“In just about every neighborhood throughout valley you will find for sale signs. Many of the homes that are on the market have gone through foreclosure. For sale signs are becoming more like yard ornaments at homes in some neighborhoods.”

A report from the Arizona Republic. “A planned condominium project in central Phoenix has irked area residents, who say the developer’s lackadaisical approach to demolishing the site’s former buildings has contributed to neighborhood crime.”

“CEO Jonathan Larmore says the development, Residence at the Grove, will be a more affordable alternative to the multimillion-dollar condos that currently dot the Biltmore corridor. Units would be priced from $440,000 to $850,000, he said.”

“Residents already are angry with Larmore because, they say, the company took too long to demolish the medical offices and clean up debris. Arciterra Group received the first of its demolition permits from the city Feb. 6 but did not complete the razing of the buildings until late last month.”

“In the interim, residents say, at least one of the buildings sat half-demolished, attracting vagrants who committed crimes there. ‘It looked like a war zone,’ said Holly Rye, who lives near the site.”

The Tucson Citizen from Arizona. “July has come and gone and nothing is happening on the Congress Street empty lot where construction should have started on The Post lofts. Bourn Partners in spring indicated construction on the six-story, 52-unit complex would start ’sometime in July.’”

“Tucson’s overall real estate market has staggered this year. Ron Schwabe, a former partner in the 44 Broadway Lofts, said a few months back that the national picture impacts downtown Tucson and had slowed the 44 Broadway project.”

“In prior interviews, Turner hinted reservations were never robust at The Post. In the past and now, he never disclosed how many reservations were placed other than saying in December that the number is ‘better than we expected. We haven’t sold out by any means.’”

“John Strobeck, author of the Tucson Housing Market Letter, is not surprised with the reticence. ‘Downtown is such a crapshoot,’ Strobeck said. ‘Everybody was depending on a good program (with Rio Nuevo). Now the confidence of anything happening is so low there is no confidence of any investors. There’s a lot of people sitting on the sideline saying, ‘If they would have done something, I’d be pitching.’”

“Ann Vargas, the city’s downtown housing coordinator, prefers to use the term ‘chess game’ to describe the challenges to find buyers for downtown condos.”

“‘You can’t hold somebody by the hand and take them into a loft and show them, ‘Here’s what you’re going to get,’ Vargas said. ‘Until you’re really ready to sell, it’s really hard to push on something that’s going to be built in a year or two out.’”

“Strobeck said the local condo market, whether conversions from apartment or new condo units, is unremarkable. ‘Condo conversions are dying right now if you’re not around the university or District 16 (the Catalina foothills),’ Strobeck said.”

The Transcript Bulletin from Utah. “The number of houses sold in Tooele County plummeted 17.3 percent during the second quarter of 2007 compared to the second quarter of 2006, according to statistics from the Wasatch Front Regional MLS.”

“After only a 5 percent increase in the average sales price for houses during 2005, sales values jumped 26.4 percent during the second quarter of 2006, a period during which the average home price increased form $137,333 to $172,601.”

“Tooele’s ReMax Platinum owner Dan Egelund said the real estate market in the Tooele Valley has recovered during the past two years after going through a rough period. ‘Home prices will still increase but at a more gradual pace than they have in the past,’ Egelund predicted.”

“He said that four or five years ago some homeowners faced foreclosures and were eager to get out of their homes. The sudden and substantial increase in home values has made foreclosures almost non-existent in Tooele County because people have been able to sell quickly at higher prices the past two years.”

“Egelund said home buyers are lured to Tooele County because sales prices are still extremely low compared to Salt Lake County prices. As an example, he said a four-bedroom, two-bath home in Salt Lake Valley listed at $291,782 in June. A similar four-bedroom, two-bath home in Tooele County was listed at $198,310.”

“‘We still have wide-open spaces in Tooele County. Water is an issue, but there is still plenty of developable land,’ Egelund said.”




RSS feed | Trackback URI

138 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-08-02 12:36:27

FYI, I know this site is running slowly today and has some glitches. We are going to work on a fix this evening, so there may be a few minutes of downtime.

‘Taxable sales, the single biggest source of revenue for state government, fell across Northern Nevada in May from the same month a year earlier, the state reported Wednesday.’

‘Nevada continues to feel the effects of the slow housing market and decline in automobile sales,’ Gov. Jim Gibbons said.’

‘Arizona ended its last budget year on June 30 with $225 million less in tax collections than forecast — money state lawmakers were counting on to balance this year’s new $10.6 billion spending plan.’

‘And trends cited in a report Tuesday by the Joint Legislative Budget Committee are not optimistic: Revenue growth is slowing, meaning the state’s fiscal situation could grow worse. But George Cunningham, the governor’s chief financial adviser, said it is ‘premature to panic.’

‘That reflects not just the weak housing market, which cut taxes on contracting, but also lower retail sales, a key indicator of consumer confidence.’

Comment by az_owner
2007-08-02 14:58:41

‘Arizona ended its last budget year on June 30 with $225 million less in tax collections than forecast — money state lawmakers were counting on to balance this year’s new $10.6 billion spending plan.’

I wonder how this will play out - cut the budget maybe? (joking)

How is it that AZ with a population of 6 million has a $10.6 bil budget, but CA with a pop of 35 million is wrangling over a $145 billion budget? Is California really that much more wealthy as a whole? Or do they just like their state goverment taking and spending more of their money for them?

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2007-08-02 15:30:42

The ultimarte flaw of liberalism. The more the govt takes care of people, the more people will let the govt take care of them. We don’t do a very good job of taking care of our poor, so few go to the govt looking for it to take care of them.

Comment by Mole Man
2007-08-02 17:15:29

Liberalism didn’t create the huge dead-end prison population. Also, California is one of the few states in the union that does not have to worry about bridges since they were all recently redone, and no the construction accident doesn’t count.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-08-02 19:13:36

So - it doesn’t count since it was being worked on, just like the Minneapolis bridge was being worked on?

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070801/NEWS18/70801006

. . oh, well, glad California is perfect and his inspected each and every one of its 10,000+ bridges, no worries there, just have an inspector sign a form, collect his $1000 from the taxpayer, everything is fine, no worries, not a bad one in the bunch . . .

 
 
 
Comment by cactus
2007-08-02 20:15:09

Almost every proposition CA ever put on a ballot passes. I expect eventually the poor CA majority will start to pass more and more taxes on the wealthy. And the only middle class left in Cali are government workers which still has to be small compared to the working poor and the rich? I always wondered why Cali doesn’t do a leveraged buyout of all the other western states water supply? Kinda like Owens valley back in the day.

 
 
 
Comment by crisrose
2007-08-02 12:54:11

“Biggest real estate boom in the history of the United States, we couldn’t go wrong. We needed to send our kids through college and we thought it was a great deal.”

Yep. Why work, sweat and save when there’s easy money out there for the pickins - just take out a loan, sit back on your fat a$$ and wait for the money to come rolling in.

At least their children are getting a good lesson in the hazards of greed, laziness and a ’something for nothing’ mentality.

Comment by sunshinestate
2007-08-02 13:17:24

Well said. I wonder what percentage of all houses sold during the last five years were bought by people like this, with no reason for buying other that to get rich quick. Are we just hearing about the extreme cases, or is this just the tip of the iceburg for these kinds of stories?

Comment by FP
2007-08-02 14:43:07

People didn’t have the money to begin with. If I invested $50,000 (that I earned and saved) in stocks, bonds or other investiment vehicles, my downside is that I lose $50,000. Ouch but consider this…

If you borrow $500,000 to invest in real estate, the absolute downside is losing $500,000 and financial stability for the rest of your lives. (of course, this is easier because they didn’t earn the money to begin with. You make hasty decisions when someone gives money freely.)

 
 
Comment by MacAttack
2007-08-02 13:18:15

People do it all the time, crisrose. Folks just need to learn two things: 1) the concept of liquidity; 2) the fact that risk and reward are usually connected. These folks failed both tests - they bought an illiquid asset, and assumed there would be risk-free reward. And there was - for a time.

 
Comment by desmo
2007-08-02 13:34:08

And it’s been the first time I’ve had to tell my kids that no, we can’t go to the movies because I’ve got to pay for this house that we are not living in right now that’s not selling.’”

I bet when they are by themselves she finishes with “the house your Father wanted to buy”

Comment by Misstrial
2007-08-02 14:10:07

I would just add that her choice of words indicates that its someone else’s fault that the house isn’t selling.

Usually, parents will wait to do this sort of thing (buy investment real estate) when its clear the kid will actually attend college as opposed to wishful thinking based upon an assumption.

~Misstrial

 
Comment by BottomFisher
2007-08-02 16:24:16

Mommy, we know it was all our lame and greedy daddy’s fault we will never go to college. lets get some ice cream.

 
 
Comment by Groundhogday
2007-08-02 13:50:28

I loved the suggestion that REO sales are somehow “illegitimate” and real legitimate sellers can’t compete. What, pray tell, is legitimate about a family buying a house in Vegas they never planned to live in then immediately trying to flip for a huge profit after adding ZERO value.

Take a big hint folks: the REOs might not even be marked to market and you are $100k over. Take your medicine and let your kids truly value higher education by paying for it.

Comment by Misstrial
2007-08-02 14:12:07

Excellent point.

~Misstrial

Comment by sparkylab
2007-08-02 16:54:12

Touche, sir.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by joe momma
2007-08-02 17:52:15

Just going to post the same thing. These people are slime.

 
 
Comment by BubbleViewer
2007-08-02 14:19:35

Do you remember the commercial a while back, where the couple is worrying about how they will pay for children’s college? The wife (obviously the smart one) suggested refinancing and taking out a HELOC. Problem solved.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2007-08-02 15:47:45

Another point is where did this home buyer get the idea that the second they put their house on the market they will get a sale ? One of the risks of real estate investment is that RE market can go into a tight money market or demand can be satisfied resulting in oversupply ,so selling is difficult .

Another problem regarding the Wall Street model of loan risk is that no consideration was given to what would happen if demand fell and homes were hard to sell because of a over supply or even the affordability issue .But the cheerleaders answered all those concerns with made up myths like ,”the rich baby boomer will buy your property “, and real estate always goes up, and we are running out of land ,and you can always refinance .”

There are many reasons why the loan industry had long term prudent lending guidelines in the past and the recent departure from those standards set alot of people up for a big fall .

These people that bought homes and expected a quick sale or a profit within a short time of ownership were in la la land regarding risk involved in a market changing . That is why when you take out a long term loan you better qualify for that loan or your investment property better get a high enough rent to cover you .

Comment by MdRE
2007-08-02 16:40:28

“The Lowry’s are now looking to rent out the house just to help with payments, but it still won’t be enough. ‘I’m depending now on my retirement, which is being bled down and I won’t even have that money as an option for college because it’s basically become a money pit here.’ said Michael Lowry.”

Am I supposed to feel sorry for this clown? I bet that he also bought Yahoo at $200/share 9/10’s of the way before the dot com crash b/c they were also a a ’sure-thing’. Greed. He was expecting to flip this house to someone else or their family (and pocket some fast cash at their expense of course) but now that HE is holding the bag and not the next guy it’s boo-hoo, cry me a river? LMAO. Have fun readjusting the retirement plans.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by travanx
2007-08-02 21:46:40

“We needed to send our kids through college and we thought it was a great deal.”

What does this have to do with buying a house? I totally missed what this was trying to relate to????

 
 
Comment by Florida Watcher
2007-08-02 12:56:15

“Eight foreclosure homes in their subdivision, all with similar square footage, have forced the Lowry’s to drop their price. Still, they can’t compete with bank prices of almost $100,000 less than they’re asking.”

You know they just…

Link to Music Video

Comment by Florida Watcher
2007-08-02 12:57:34

Sorry link doesn’t work to video, picked it up from the Irvine Housing blog, Eddie Money’s “I wanna go back.”

 
Comment by Groundhogday
2007-08-02 13:53:44

Looks like there will be a ninth foreclosed house for sale in that neighborhood before too long.

I wonder of pops is stupid enough to drain his entire retirement before losing the home.

Comment by Norcal Ray
2007-08-02 15:03:13

Yep, if he was smart he would give the house back to the bank and not touch a penny of his retirement fund.

Comment by Tortious
2007-08-02 15:41:03

Just ask Cramer.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2007-08-02 15:35:39

Insert Jim Cramer here: Just walk away… No seraiously, just walk away.

 
 
 
Comment by arroyogrande
2007-08-02 13:00:13

“Biggest real estate boom in the history of the United States, we couldn’t go wrong. We needed to send our kids through college and we thought it was a great deal.’”

When was the last time that so many “common” people have expected so many dollars profit with so little perceived risk? Only pyramid schemes have this quality, and it’s only becasue the risk is PERCIEVED to be so low.

The tech stock bubble had the same characteristics, but at least my friends weren’t buying $700,000 worth of “asset” using borrowed money, as so many recent “Joe Average” real estate investors have.

Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-08-02 13:08:38

I do remember many people during the stock bubble taking out equity loans to buy the tech stocks. When it crashed they owed a lot more on their houses.

Comment by Misstrial
2007-08-02 14:24:04

Good Lord, will does it ever end.

~Misstrial

 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2007-08-02 15:39:19

I had a truck driver friend, that switched to pulling fiber optic for a living. No retirement savings, so took a second on his house to play the IPO market to build a retirement in a few years of playing the market.

This was my personal “shoe shine man” moment.

In the tech crash, both he and his wide lost their jobs. They sold the house and bought a much smaller and cheaper one way outside of town.

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2007-08-02 13:11:35

I would say that typical pyramid schemes are somewhat unique, somewhat mysterious.

This one involved something quite ubiquitous, something everyone can relate to - a house.

 
Comment by SimpleSimon
2007-08-02 13:22:36

One wonders if were making history here in the last decade or so, or will the financial climate be more of the same in say 100 years. It’s pathetic, asset bubbles in everything imaginable, greed, disinformation, manipulation, complaceny, uggh….. I suppose this two day rally in US equity market with it’s attendant cheerleading has given me a bit of nausea. Rant off.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-08-02 21:27:59

I hear ya, but all the same, the way things are looking recently the cheerleaders are only delaying the inevitable. Sooner or later this thing will shake itself apart.

 
 
 
Comment by gather no moss
2007-08-02 13:02:30

“…And it’s been the first time I’ve had to tell my kids that no, we can’t go to the movies because I’ve got to pay for this….”

If only they had gotten used to saying this years ago, they’d have plenty of $$ for college. That’s how my parents were and they sent four kids through private colleges with minimal loans (and they paid for all of mine). They also saved enough for a really nice retirement that has included extensive travel. Growing up I used to think they were either mean or poor, but I realize now that they had higher ambitions for their offspring than a trip to the movies followed by binge shopping for plastic crap at the mall.

Comment by arroyogrande
2007-08-02 13:10:50

“Growing up I used to think they were either mean or poor, but I realize now that they had higher ambitions for their offspring than a trip to the movies followed by binge shopping for plastic crap at the mall.”

That is so true…we make a very good living, but we have the goals of retiring early (retirement meaning “not *have to* work”), spending time with the kids while they are young, and saving for college. Even with a great income, these things take a little sacrifice. Hopefully the small sacrifices we make will make it easier to raise responsible adults that don’t look at credit card advances and HELOC withdrawals as sources of income.

 
Comment by Betamax
2007-08-02 13:16:27

LOL. I used to think my dad was unnecessarily cheap. Now I’ve become him.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-08-02 13:23:43

I once thought the same thing of my parents. Now I admire them. And try to emulate their frugality.

Comment by palmetto
2007-08-02 13:33:29

Amen, Arizona. Part of what makes it so hard for parents is that their kids are constantly being bombarded by marketing and advertising and peer pressure. Parents have to fight this all the time, I know my parents did when I wuz a pup and it must be far worse now.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by jag
2007-08-02 14:13:46

It isn’t that hard. You give kids a budget when they’re little. They learn pretty quick that if they spend everything on “a” they’ll have nothing for b, c and d.

We always made our kids wait a bit with each fad…..a couple of times seeing the fads fade incredibly rapidly (and being happy about not wasting their budget) made them pretty thoughtful.

The outcome? Last Christmas the youngest gave us our present; she got involved with a program where one can adopt a poor family, she bought a bunch of clothes for the kids. Spent a big chunk of her savings to boot.

She said she was grateful for all she had and that she thought we’d all appreciate her expression of that gratitude by giving to others who really needed help rather than trying to find something cute and relatively meaningless for us.

It may be worse now, sure. But its only tough if you don’t make an effort to consistently instill good values. If you let things slide, if you don’t hold them accountible, they’ll do what all human beings do; they’ll assume those “values” aren’t all that important, no?

Oh, and if you don’t make sure they understand the concept of “gratitude” then nothing you do will ever work AND they’ll never be happy or satisfied.

 
Comment by Misstrial
2007-08-02 14:49:57

Your daughter is rich in more ways than one.

All my best to you and to her.

~Misstrial

 
Comment by Gadfly
2007-08-02 14:51:41

My p’s wouldn’t buy me cowboy boots or a cool Stingray bike with sissy bars. I had a rough childhood :-)

 
Comment by palmetto
2007-08-02 15:09:17

“But its only tough if you don’t make an effort to consistently instill good values. If you let things slide, if you don’t hold them accountible, they’ll do what all human beings do; they’ll assume those “values” aren’t all that important, no?”

Great post, jag. And excellent advice to those who may be having difficulty with their kids in the area of peer pressure.

 
Comment by finance_guy
2007-08-02 19:29:00

Gadfly:

Sounds like my childhood. No stingray bike for me either, just a garage sale bought 10 speed about 3″ too big for me. (insert poignant/painful memories of falling off the seat onto the top crossbar. OUCH).

Instilling the same values into my kids now, ok, ok, i’m a little weak as i actually bought them bikes that fit.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2007-08-03 05:17:13

Gadfly,
Ya got me laughing too at the Stingray bike. My bro got his sparkly green one w/banana seat of course at a yard sale. I bought my first 10 speed w/the money from my paper route.

Now kids get ‘Vettes and Saabs for the Sweet 16. Saw a really young kid taking his friends out in a sweet looking Porsche yesterday. At least they were driving responsibly.

 
 
Comment by Betamax
2007-08-02 13:52:26

Absolutely. When I was a kid, there was no ‘designer’ clothing for the masses, and the only electronic entertainment items in the house were a TV & stereo. Now it’s designer everything and desktops, laptops, plasma screens, IPods, XBox 360s, yaddah yaddah yaddah.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Eudemon
2007-08-02 16:07:07

Not to be disparaging, but how are are you? Designer clothes first appeared in the 1970s. Remember Izod and all the precious preppy crap? Pink and green upturned collars everywhere? That was the ultimate.

Remember overpriced, electronic stuff like Pong and early calculators? I remember when my best friend’s Dad bought a briefcase-sized calculator in 1973 for $325. Their microwave, bought the same year, cost more than $1,000. My best friend’s old man could wait to show all the neighbors and tell him all the money he spent.

What about $500 BetaMax video players circa 1979?

 
 
Comment by sparkylab
2007-08-02 17:12:13

I had kind of the opposite experience. I was the overly frugal one - my parents (not big spenders by any means, and have retired comfortably, now) thought, and I suspect continue to think, that I’m ‘tight’.

Until I have enough money to be what I would call independently wealthy (if I lost my job, my standard of living would not change) then I’ll be watching the pennies and investing the surplus.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Shannon
2007-08-02 13:03:28

So instead of putting money away for their children’s college fund, they decided to buy a house and flip it for a quick profit. So stupid. I just can’t read anymore stories like this. Why didn’t they just put money in a savings account or college savings account or stuff it in their mattress instead of making a mortgage payment on a house noone has ever lived in. They are probably out a good 2 years worth of college costs at this point.

OT friends live in Oakcreek in Irvine, California. Paid 365k and are now in a mountain of debt because they have been living the high life since 2002. Expensive cars, 2 time shares, 400.00 jeans, poker parties. Now they have to sell their house because they can’t afford it anymore. They think they can still get a million for it and plan on paying off their debt and move to Denver where they will pay cash for a house. As you can see they are still living in dream land. My kids and I went to their community pool the other day. It is a beautiful, olympic sized pool and the after showers are actually heated. There was no one there except us and the lifeguard. It really was strange. Last summer and summers before that the place would be packed. I think all the moms are now having to work to cover their Heloc’s.

Comment by Sobay
2007-08-02 13:24:52

So instead of putting money away for their children’s college fund, they decided to buy a house and flip it for a quick profit. So stupid…

- Don’t be to hard on them, after all - the TV programs told them that it was fool proof.
- As for your friends in Irvine, don’t be to hard on them. Here in So Cal it is all about the good life that we deserve.

Comment by Florida Watcher
2007-08-02 13:28:15

“Here in So Cal it is all about the good life that we deserve. ”

If ever there was an entitlement society that would epicenter of the homeland :)

Comment by palmetto
2007-08-02 13:43:35

Parts of the Northeast don’t do too badly at entitlement. You wanna see a group of people who feel truly entitled, check out the New York burbs, particularly in Connecticut, where the financial parasites hang out. At least, in CA, it seems that many people got their money by doing something productive like tech, entertainment, etc. (not including RE). In the Northeast, you’ve got hedgescums in Brooks Brothers suits and Gucci loafers who have a lot of that funny-money they ripped off from the productive wealthy.

Of course, I can’t speak for CA, but that’s my perception.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by palmetto
2007-08-02 13:52:24

“the productive wealthy.”

You know, those folks who actually build businesses, produce products and services that people need or enjoy, who provide employement in communities, stuff like that.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Florida Watcher
2007-08-02 13:26:36

“Last summer and summers before that the place would be packed. I think all the moms are now having to work to cover their Heloc’s.”

Sounds about right, used to live in Irvine and let me tell you everyone knows how to live HELOC’D out to the max.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-08-02 13:29:15

400 BUCKS for a pair of jeans? You can get them at Goodwill for a lot less!

Comment by arizonadude
2007-08-02 13:46:45

It’s all about the coolness factor. Look at coach bags, ipods, iphones and all stuff.It would be strange to be in gradeschool right now. Remember madonnas song, we are living in a material world”.I always think of that song when I hear about overpriced nonsense.

 
 
Comment by Roger H
2007-08-02 13:49:16

What is really sad is that a few years ago, pre-piad college tution programs were really a great deal. I bet they could have had a significant portion of State U tution paid with just the down payment money.

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2007-08-02 15:50:49

Downpayment money…. Hahahahaha…. That’s funny.

These people didn’t put anything down. They camped out at home builders for projects announced 2 years out. They put down MAYBE $5000 on a $500K house that wouldn’t be completed for a year and a half.

The plan was to close on the house, then resell it the same month so you never had to make even a single payment. Heck, with 10% per year appreciation minimum, heck, 20% is almost in the BAG!!!!!, you’re taking FREE money. Like $100K for holding the house for a month.

Of course, all based on prices rising 5x inflation for at least 2 more years….OOOPPPS.

 
 
Comment by Misstrial
2007-08-02 14:57:41

I recall when Oakcreek was built: waaay over-rated, imo. Located between the 405, power lines, and the 5 fwys, the only good thing about it is that there is a Gelson’s in the neighborhood off Jeffrey. Even back in ‘03 the builders crammed too many houses into various subdivisions. Houses were going for high 6’s, 7’s on up. I am surprised your friends got in for mid-3’s.

~Misstrial

 
Comment by Eudemon
2007-08-02 16:27:43

Nah…they aren’t working. Not yet, anyway.

More likely, all the fun has been drained from the community pool scene….no longer can they brag to their neighbors about their latest acquisitions. After five years of blathering on about stainless steel appliances and dropping $1,000 to rent a pony for Princess’ Special Day, discount light bulbs from K-Mart don’t sound all that interesting.

Comment by Shannon
2007-08-02 18:34:14

That is so funny Eudemon.

yes, They paid 365k but their house is practically on the 405 fwy. I think of all the rubber and pollution they breath in daily. Their upstairs looks over the freeway, I can see the shutters when we pass by. You get the picture. You know, they are nice people but way too caught up in the whole material thing. Searching for happiness in a stainless steal fridge that gives you crushed ice.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2007-08-02 13:03:58

These folks that are trying to sell their home legitimately, they are taking a hard hit.’”

So I take this comment to mean that everyone else is trying to sell their over priced S-box “illegitimately”?

Comment by JP
2007-08-02 13:11:23

And I’d love to know just what is “trying to sell their home illegitimately” as opposed to the legitimate road that they’ve taken.

 
Comment by Rintoul
2007-08-02 13:32:57

I loved that quote!

 
Comment by gab
2007-08-02 13:57:31

Bastards…

 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2007-08-02 15:52:59

Illegitamet is just walking away, while legitimate is using your retirement money to hold on as long as possible hoping for the market to recover…

Illegitimate = smart, or simply doesn’t have the money to hang on. Legitimate = dump, in denial, totally hosed.

 
Comment by Mole Man
2007-08-02 17:29:34

The word choice is bad, but you have to admit there are differences between ordinary people just trying to sell their homes and banks anxious to drop unwanted assets. The goals and perceptions of value are not the same at all.

Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-08-02 19:24:32

So is this kind of like buying clothes from “legitimate” sellers like department stores vs. buying them from garage sales or “goodwill” outlets or others who are anxious to drop unwanted assets?

The goal is to maximize revenue or profits and the seller doesn’t give a damn about “perception of value.” That’s for the buyer to determine. You’ve got a soft spot for totalitarianism there, don’t you, mole man?

 
 
 
Comment by arroyogrande
2007-08-02 13:06:31

I have to admit that Las Vegas is my most “shadenfruede” market…and that’s with having two close relatives there that I hope do well despite market conditions. LV (to me) has been the most arrogant proponent of “it’s different here”, while not having much to offer other than psuedo glitz, psuedo sophistication, and psuedo upscaleness. I liked it better in the 90s when it was more of an adult Disneyland (long live Treasure Island!)

Comment by SLO Bear
2007-08-02 15:45:03

Go visit Scottsdale, Arizona, AG. They think they are Laguna Beach without the ocean or the weather.

The smugness is sickening.

Comment by lavi d
2007-08-03 00:44:16

They think they are Laguna Beach without the ocean or the weather.

Having experience in both locales, I can vouch for this…

 
 
 
Comment by ragerunner
2007-08-02 13:07:01

“‘We still have wide-open spaces in Tooele County. Water is an issue, but there is still plenty of developable land,’ Egelund said.”

Maybe every home sale should come with a life time supply of Aquafina. I am still amazed to this day how we show very little concern developing in locations which have serious long-term sustainable issues (water supply, hurricanes, etc…)

Comment by MacAttack
2007-08-02 13:18:58

Heck do you need WATER for?

 
Comment by palmetto
2007-08-02 13:49:43

Is it just me, or has this bubble produced more verbal diarrhea per capita than has ever existed in US history?

Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-08-02 14:12:25

I believe the cause of that would be (ahem) the Internet.

Comment by palmetto
2007-08-02 15:03:15

I don’t think the internet causes verbal idiocy, although it might spread it. I’m referring to the absolutely gob-smacking quotes from newspapers and TV stations all over the country, taken from interviews with local and national RE pundits, economists, etc. I mean, a comment like “Water is an issue, but there is still plenty of developable land” is a real show-stopper.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-08-02 19:54:34

I take your point, but there is nothing at all new or unique about this bubble -

From het Nederlander nieuws, 1640: “Bulb rot is an issue, but it’s still worth holding an inventory of tulips equal to two years’ salary.”

 
Comment by lavi d
2007-08-03 00:50:06

From het Nederlander nieuws, 1640: “Bulb rot is an issue, but it’s still worth holding an inventory of tulips equal to two years’ salary.”

Awesome

 
 
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2007-08-02 14:39:40

At current bubble prices, Perrier should come out of taps!

Comment by palmetto
2007-08-02 15:13:42

LOL, actually, Perrier does come out of the taps, when you find out that so much bottled water comes from taps anyway.

 
 
Comment by travanx
2007-08-02 22:03:57

I am surprised at how many places are getting developed with knowing that there are going to be water problems. When I was at UC Irvine my professor was mentioning how Orange County would most likely be in need of water after 2015. And thats why Water Engineers would be in demand because they need to figure it out obviously soon. There are problems like this in Santa Clarita as well. I know a lot of newer developments are able to go through because they are going to pump ground water which Santa Clarita from what I understand has already become polluted.

Now Vegas and Arizona? I can’t even begin to understand what their idea of sustaining a water supply is there. Truck in bottled water to Vegas? I dunno. Hurricanes and Earthquakes don’t bother me at all compared to food and water problems.

Comment by lavi d
2007-08-03 00:52:28

Hurricanes and Earthquakes don’t bother me at all compared to food and water problems.

A few years ago, I remember a big story about a judge shutting down a housing development in Ventura county because the developer couldn’t prove 100 years of water supply - if that makes any difference…

 
 
Comment by Liz in Boston
2007-08-02 22:54:55

Maybe every home sale should come with a life time supply of Aquafina.

If you buy in the right place, you can get it. Aquafina is purified tap water.

 
 
Comment by Moman
2007-08-02 13:15:57

“Kathy Lowry said, ‘The frustration level in our household has been through the roof. And it’s been the first time I’ve had to tell my kids that no, we can’t go to the movies because I’ve got to pay for this house that we are not living in right now that’s not selling.’”

Who wants to donate a buck so we can buy this dumb woman a mirror?

Comment by gsinbe
2007-08-02 13:54:50

Actually, I think we need to send her the link to Cramer’s “Just Walk Away” video.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-08-02 14:04:14

household frustration because the kids don’t get what they want .. wow.. what a freakin’ nightmare.

 
 
Comment by mrquoi
2007-08-02 13:16:59

Tooele (too-will-ahh in Utahnese) County may be the only place I’ve been that is even nastier than the IE. Hot, dry, dust blowing in from the salt flats and the lake stench generated by tons of brine flies and brine shrimp. And now traffic. And the lovely Tooele army depot that has the chemical weapons we don’t really want to talk about. Dugway and the hazardous waste incinerator leaks, biological and radiation testing, and industrial pollution on a huge scale. Makes Fontucky seem like Eden because you’ll just die quickly from a stray bullet from a gang fight instead of wasting away from some exotic cancer.

Comment by Misstrial
2007-08-02 15:08:13

Location, location, location.

Thanks for letting us know, lol.

~Misstrial :)

 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2007-08-02 16:11:05

Yeah, but one of those Tooele subdivisions had DB Cooper’s loot buried under it.

http://www.tvfodder.com/prison_break/archives/2006/09/prison_break_subdivision.shtml

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-08-02 13:27:49

The Downtown Tucson condo stories all but made me barf. Here’s the reality:

1. There’s a very busy freight line on the north side of Downtown. So, if you’d like to be awakened several times a night by LONG trains with LOUD whistles, have I got a deal for you!

2. I-10’s exits to Downtown are closed until 2010. Big road construction project going on.

3. One of the major underpasses into Downtown is also closed. More construction.

4. Downtown has a lot of vagrants, gangbangers, and other undesirables hanging around. Especially around the library and the big bus stop (aka the Ronstadt Transit Center.)

5. Rio Nuevo has been a fiasco for years.

In short, living Downtown isn’t what most Tucsonans aspire to.

Comment by 85701 is overrated
2007-08-02 14:43:58

44 Broadway looks like an old office building. An old ugly office building. Who the hell will buy anything there? They’ve had signs advertising that project for at least 2 years now. There’s another condo building down on 6th (near 44 Broadway), this one an old school, which still has a the same sign it has had for a year: “Only 4 Units Left!”

 
Comment by Misstrial
2007-08-02 15:15:39

Whaaat???? 2010??? I was hoping they’d be done by the time I return to NM (who can now export water due to all of the recent rains and water levels in the Rio Grande/EBID). Coming to CA, I specifically planned my travel timing so as to be through Tucson during off hours because of all the closures. Good grief.

A hotel employee told me Tucson is having a drought. Wonder how that will affect RE.

~Misstrial

Comment by cactus
2007-08-02 20:31:31

drought? Maybe but It’s been raining alot in Tucson this moonson, its heat island Phoenix that has little rain just alot of dust which turns to mud on all the cars.

 
 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-08-02 13:44:26

For Sale yard ornaments! damn..why didn’t I think of that.. Something stylish, attractive and, most importantly, long lasting.

Comment by combotechie
2007-08-02 14:06:32

Like a pink flamingo with a “For Sale” sign dangling from its beak.

Comment by Misstrial
2007-08-02 15:21:34

Or, a tire painted white, filled with potting soil, used as a flower planter for that all-important “curb appeal.” Insert “For Sale” sign in center for the final home-design touch.

~Misstrial

 
Comment by Neil
2007-08-02 16:33:40

Dude,

You’re onto something there!

But hey, what about those “dancing cow” status that were “hip” for about one week in the 1980’s for lawn decoration? Huge things, 6 to 8 feet tall… Big pink udder too.

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
 
 
Comment by Brian
2007-08-02 13:52:30

This is unbelievable to me, but apparently yesterday’s 200 pnt rally in the last 30 mins was due to a trader making a typo, then having to buy massively to cover that mistake’s losses???

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2007/08/mystery-solved-.html

Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-08-02 14:20:07

Believable. When someone has to work fast, they can’t work clandestinely, so traders quickly get the whiff and “front run” the action. Prices on securities, like everything, are set at the margin, so large order imbalances can lead to rapid, large swings in the market, particularly one already spooked.

Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-08-02 14:22:28

Addendum: Or would you prefer to blame it on a conspiracy engineered by the mysterious but apparently ubiquitous PPT?

 
 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2007-08-02 13:58:54

Comment by ragerunner
2007-08-02 13:07:01
“‘We still have wide-open spaces in Tooele County. Water is an issue, but there is still plenty of developable land,’ Egelund said.”
Maybe every home sale should come with a life time supply of Aquafina. I am still amazed to this day how we show very little concern developing in locations which have serious long-term sustainable issues (water supply, hurricanes, etc…)

That is the complete, terrifying truth. I grew up in southern Utah, a lot of my ancestors came across the plains with ol’ Horndog Joe Smith the Profit (and I DID spell that right) and they were a tough bunch, those that made it and didn’t die of a surplus of arrows in the noggin, dehydration, starvation, the cold–let’s see, there was other stuff you could die of, and did die of, but the list is too long. Anyway, when they actually arrived in Utah, then they got to learn how to wrest a life out of a beautiful but deeply inhospitable, very arid, absolutely unforgiving land. No water; no life. Pray all you want, but no water = no life. The end.
What I’m saying is, my family has been there for a long time and the value of water is stamped all over my little twisty genes, which is probably why I do what I do now.
The simple truth is, we treat water– irrigation, drinking, whatever– as a given, carelessly, when it is in fact priceless. And FINITE. This fact becomes ever more evident, particularly lately.

Comment by In Colorado
2007-08-02 14:43:56

Fresh water will soon be the “blue gold”.

 
Comment by jb
2007-08-02 16:17:06

Hmm, Olympiagal, your recollection of history is a bit suspect, given that ‘Joe Smith’ never came to Utah and, in fact, was killed in Illinois several years before the Mormons came to Utah. Perhaps your obvious dislike of Mormons came from the same distorted source?

Though I agree that water is important, I suspect there is plenty IF its price is allowed to rise to market levels and is not subsidized by the govt.

jb

Comment by spike66
2007-08-02 18:42:14

jb,\google aquifers, which is the source of water. you will see that several major ones have been drawn down. Or just look at the Colorado River, and the water rights fights. Or the extremely low levels in artificial Lake Mead. Market price is not the fix for everything–building golf courses in the desert might not have been the best idea.

 
Comment by Liz in Boston
2007-08-02 23:01:16

Though I agree that water is important, I suspect there is plenty IF its price is allowed to rise to market levels and is not subsidized by the govt.

This has been tried with electricity. Remember how Enron caused rolling blackouts in California?

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2007-08-02 14:23:19

‘Mortgage lender American Home Mortgage Investment Corp is closing its doors on Friday, and has told employees they will be laid off, according to Newsday, citing an e-mail to employees from Chief Executive Michael Strauss.’

Comment by Hoz
2007-08-02 14:31:58

Over 5000 people out of work? That really sucks.

Comment by Hoz
2007-08-02 14:33:22

The stock is trading at $0.90 :>)

Comment by Shannon
2007-08-02 14:43:58

5000 more people that won’t be making their house payment. Where are the majority of their offices?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2007-08-02 15:31:59

I believe that HQ is in Dallas, TX area.

https://www.americanhm.com/contact.aspx

 
 
 
Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-08-02 14:43:07

We don’t want companies that make bad loans, engage in fraud, and generally muck up the housing market, but we want people to work there? Or, to put it another way, employees shouldn’t be required to assume any responsibility for the well-being of their company?

I’ve never understood this reasoning, just like I don’t exonerate 1930s Germans for Hitler, and wouldn’t expect foreigners to give me a pass on some policy of America they don’t like. No crocodile tears here, just go get a job, if you’re so inclined.

 
Comment by packman
2007-08-02 14:56:15

Holy freakin’ cow. Actually Yahoo shows 7,409 employees - gone with a whiff.

This is a company that as of the first quarter this year was still making a profit!!!.

Comment by Groundhogday
2007-08-02 15:11:25

And as of Jan 1, 2007 a couple of Bear Stearns funds were reporting double digit returns…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by packman
2007-08-02 15:14:21

Granted - but those were just funds - managed by a small few people. With AHM we’re talking real job loss too, plus facilities shutdown, etc.

 
Comment by Groundhogday
2007-08-02 15:34:53

True, when a ship goes down in a couple of minutes there isn’t much time to find a lifeboat.

But even with warning, not many opportunities for mortgage brokers these days. I hope some of them got wise and were taking night classes at the local beauty school. Supercuts is always hiring.

 
 
 
Comment by joe momma
2007-08-02 17:58:45

Not really. Most knew exactly what they were doing. Screw them.

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-08-02 15:40:06

Like rising foreclosures, it’s huge but inevitable.

Carnage is King

 
 
Comment by Tortious
2007-08-02 14:37:18

Well, I can say that prices are finally dropping in Las Vegas. Some new homes are actually beginning to look reasonably priced in some parts of town. Another 9-12 months should do the trick.

 
Comment by Groundhogday
2007-08-02 14:37:32

Slightly off topic, but still in the desert:

Just found out that one of my wife’s best friends, who lives in San Diego, bought a house in Las Cruces, NM back in 2006 as an investment. This is a very quiet, 40 year old, bright, modest woman who teaches school for a living.

I read all of these stories about stupid people making really stupid decisions, but we will probably be surprised at how many very bright, normal people got caught up in the RE bubble psychology. I suppose that if you lived (and rented) in San Diego through the incredible RE runup it would be very easy to believe that Las Cruces houses were a steal at $240k and would soon follow San Diego’s upward trajectory. Of course, this woman has never even been to Las Cruces, before or after the investment.

Comment by In Colorado
2007-08-02 14:45:19

Compared to Compton, Las Cuces is paradise ;-)

 
Comment by DumbQuestion
2007-08-02 14:46:49

We all make mistakes. It’s okay as long as she admits it and pays the price. If she learns from her mistake, she may come out ahead in the long run.

The problem is people who blame others for their errors. Foreclosure bailouts are examples… NO BAILOUTS FOR YOU!

 
Comment by Misstrial
2007-08-02 15:38:47

I live in Las Cruces as well as here in Cali.

LC has about 1600 homes for sale and about 500 rentals. Lockheed brought a number of employees in from CA, but there isn’t really much demand to buy there due to factors that make it less desireable than CA, such as:

Weather extremes, except for 2 weeks out of the year,
Few storm drains, when it rains the streets turn to rivers,
Questionable levels of medical and dental care,
Limited public transportation,
Illegal aliens can obtain a driver’s license in the entire state of NM,
40% of driver’s are NOT insured,
terribly cracked/buckled roads with no raised reflectors,
well-meaning, but incompetent government employees at all levels,
an incompetent governor who is currently running for U.S. Prez, &
Santa Fe, the State capitol is a sanctuary city for illegals.

~Misstrial

Comment by Bad Chile
2007-08-03 03:37:28

In all defense of LC, the streets are designed to be the storm drains in the newer parts of the city. The reason is that the rainfall pattern in LC is such that the rain events come infrequently, but when they do, they are extremely large. Designing and constructing storm sewers for such patterns of rainfall is expensive and difficult to get the proper flows while keeping the storm sewers from getting plugged. It is easier, cheaper, and simply works better to use an inverse crown for east-west streets (from from the Organs to the river) such that the water flows down the middle of the street. It may render the streets impassable, but the likelyhood of plugging occuring in the storm sewers is such that the streets would likely be flooded anyway.

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2007-08-02 15:40:43

My concern is that these people feel like they made an isolated mistake but will continue to believe that RE is their salvation. (”RE is a great investment, I just didn’t do it right this time” line of thought)

Comment by Groundhogday
2007-08-02 16:47:32

At this point, she doesn’t know that she made a mistake. Her broker keeps telling her that LC is booming and after a couple of years there will be a huge profit.

 
 
 
Comment by FP
2007-08-02 14:50:24

“‘We still have wide-open spaces in Tooele County. Water is an issue, but there is still plenty of developable land,’ Egelund said.”

ummm. Where there is life, there is water.

 
Comment by stockmonkey
2007-08-02 15:01:28

I have been tracking inventory for Utah in Salt Lake and Utah county. Last year 6/26/06 there were 2631 homes on the market in SL county and 1649 in Utah county. Today there are 6508 homes on the market in SL county and 4023 in Utah county.

I also track selected zip codes in SL county and have noticed that the higher end areas have seen inventory triple, while the cheaper areas like Magna have seen their inventory fall nearly to half of last years level.

It still seems that everyone in Utah feels that the market is still very strong.

 
Comment by emcee
2007-08-02 15:05:31

For sale signs are becoming more like yard ornaments
Lawn gnomes sporting “For Sale” signs!
The New Hottest Thing! Now in the St. Joseph model!

 
Comment by doug-home
2007-08-02 15:56:50

I remember when I was in College in the 70s on Long Island, I shared a large rented house with 7 other students. The house was old and poorly insulated and cost a fortune to heat. NO PROBLEM, we collected “For Sale” signs and fed them into the wood burning stove. A cold night took 5 or 6 signs and the post made of 4×4 lumber. We also burned about 200 feet of fencing from the abandoned houses in our development.
Observation in NYC
Many of the Manhattan buildings abandoned by landlords in the 70s are still occupied by the same squatters 30 years later.

 
Comment by slcpunk
2007-08-02 18:37:52

Tooele is an absolute dump.

We used to say “Friends don’t let friends live to Tooele” (years back when looking for a home to buy-before the madness.)

 
Comment by Zebediah Montaloma
2007-08-02 19:16:15

The man should not touch his retirement fund to send his kids to college. The kids can always borrow a student loan for themselves.

Comment by cactus
2007-08-02 20:34:51

Thats right, can’t borrow for retirement like you can for college.

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2007-08-02 21:04:19

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2007-08-02 15:39:19
I had a truck driver friend, that switched to pulling fiber optic for a living. No retirement savings, so took a second on his house to play the IPO market to build a retirement in a few years of playing the market.

This was my personal “shoe shine man” moment.

In the tech crash, both he and his wide lost their jobs. They sold the house and bought a much smaller and cheaper one way outside of town.

So, Darrell - are you saying his wife is wider than a house? Money gone, but made up for increased weight?

 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2007-08-02 21:04:21

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2007-08-02 15:39:19
I had a truck driver friend, that switched to pulling fiber optic for a living. No retirement savings, so took a second on his house to play the IPO market to build a retirement in a few years of playing the market.

This was my personal “shoe shine man” moment.

In the tech crash, both he and his wide lost their jobs. They sold the house and bought a much smaller and cheaper one way outside of town.

So, Darrell - are you saying his wife is wider than a house? Money gone, but made up for increased weight?

 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2007-08-02 21:13:05

Tooele has plenty of land. Most of it is useless, arid desert. And don’t forget the Dugway Proving Grounds with all of the atomic fallout. Just what I want to live in. I grew up in Salt Lake. We always made fun of Tooele for being the joke of Utah, and nobody actually lived there by choice.

 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2007-08-02 21:15:22

About Tooele - don’t know which is worse. The horrible smell of the Great Salt Lake (rotting brine shrimp mixed with putrid salt from stagnant water) or the nuclear testing that went on nearby. Hurry and sign me up for a house there. Salt Lake county’s quality of life is 1000% better than Tooele (on the other side of the Oquirre Mountains and right on the shore of the smelly GSL)

Comment by aladinsane
2007-08-02 22:01:06

Tooele, Ut. = Trona, Ca.

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2007-08-02 21:26:58

Misstrial. I will take the New Mexico state government over California any day of the week. It is a paradise here compared to CA (at least my opinion). We have a lot in common as far as living. I personally left the Bay area last year and came to Albuquerque. I haven’t been to Las Cruces yet. I have driven between CA and NM many times on the I-40 corridor.

Glad a few folks made comments about Tooele being a hellhole before I did. Have to agree “friends don’t let friends live in Tooele”. I am a Mormon, and Joseph Smith was killed in Illinois. Brigham Young assumed church leadership after Smith’s death, and led the migration to the Salt Lake valley. They were tough people. None of us could endure the hardships they went through (or even now dream of them). Some of these idiots that now can’t sell their investment POSs might get a small taste of such difficulty. And they deserve it for the ‘can’t miss’ cavalier attitude.

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post