One Of The Epicenters Of The Housing Boom
The Sun Sentinel reports from Florida. “Investor Harold Stark paid $365,000 for a three-bedroom Boynton Beach townhouse last year. But the monthly mortgage payments soon started to feel like a noose around his neck. His property’s value dropped below what he still owed, $329,000. But rather than letting the townhouse fall into foreclosure, Stark worked out a deal in which he sold it for $285,000, and his lender forgave the difference.”
“Stark recently took a part-time job to earn extra money. Although his finances have taken a hit, he’s grateful to be out from under the strain of a hefty mortgage. ‘At least now I have peace of mind,’ Stark said. ‘I really feel good. If I had a little money, I’d go out and celebrate.’”
“Fort Lauderdale real estate agent Colleen Kelly has a client who owns a two-bedroom condominium in Oakland Park. She paid $160,000 in 2005 and still owes about $158,000.”
“Unable to keep up with the payments, Kelly’s client wants to sell, but the condo has lost value. She’s listing it for $142,000 but competing with dozens of other units in the same complex that also are for sale.”
“‘When we get an offer, we’ll contact the bank and see if they’ll accept it,’ Kelly said. ‘It’s unfortunate that someone earning a decent living finds herself in this situation. It’s not a fun thing.’”
The Daily News. “A sluggish real estate market paired with soaring property taxes and insurance premiums has driven foreclosure filings to an all-time high in Okaloosa, Santa Rosa and Walton counties, industry watchers say.”
“‘All three are combining to create the perfect storm,’ said David Braithwaite, city president of Compass Bank in Fort Walton Beach. ‘A lot of people are finding themselves in bad shape … developers, homeowners. It’s across the board.’”
“In Okaloosa County, foreclosures jumped by nearly 70 percent from 2005 to 2006. And if the foreclosure rate maintains its current pace, the total in 2007 will be 83 percent higher than 2006.”
“‘I knew it was up, but I didn’t realize we were running that far ahead at this time,’ said Okaloosa County Clerk of Courts Don Howard. ‘There were aggressive lending practices going on. I believe that some people got some very subprime loans.’”
“Howard estimated that 80 to 90 percent of the filings will go through the entire foreclosure process.”
“In Santa Rosa County, foreclosures increased 72 percent from 2005 to 2006. This year’s January to August foreclosures have already surpassed 2006 totals by 36 filings. In Walton County, foreclosures increased 63.7 percent from 2005 to 2006. Thus far in 2007, foreclosures have surpassed 2006 totals by 66 filings.”
“‘A lot of it is people assuming that the values were going to keep on increasing,’ said. ‘And they didn’t want to be left out. They figured if they didn’t buy a house today, they wouldn’t be able to afford it later on.’”
The News Journal. “Since last October, Jerry Tordeur has been laying off employees for the first time in Halifax Plumbing’s 21 years in business. He’s just one of an untold number of contractors and subcontractors who have been squeezed as the new-home construction industry nose-dived in the Volusia-Flagler market over the past year and a half.”
“‘I would say I’m down 60 to 65 percent for the last 14 months,’ said Tordeur, whose company focuses on new homes. ‘You can’t make it up. We’re struggling to keep things going until things turn around.’”
“Gary Tessero, a co-owner of Southside Plumbing in DeLand, said his company’s new-home work fell by about 90 percent. ‘It actually started in the third quarter of 2006 and continued on,’ Tessero said. ‘We went from maybe 50 new-home starts a week to about five. Nobody is building homes. Every big builder has inventory they’re trying to sell.’”
The St Petersburg Times. “As one of the epicenters of the housing boom, and the subsequent slump, the Tampa Bay area has suffered from a rash of loan officer layoffs for much of this year. First Magnus Financial Corp. officially ceased operations last week, taking an undisclosed number of local jobs with it.”
“The Tampa branch of H&R Block Mortgage Corp. laid off 141 in June, and on Aug. 10 HomeBanc Mortgage Corp. slashed another 59 jobs.”
“Capital One’s closing of GreenPoint Mortgage Funding, with operations in Westshore, appeared to strike unexpectedly. As late as last week, GreenPoint was prospecting for a new supervisor at its Tampa office. GreenPoint, based in Novato, Calif., specializes in no-documentation and Alt-A mortgage loans for borrowers with slightly better credit than subprime borrowers.”
“Employees at Countrywide’s offices in the Tampa Bay area funneled calls to its California headquarters. The lender said the layoffs would occur in its Full Spectrum Lending division, which runs an office in Tampa’s Westshore and serves borrowers with less-than-top-notch credit.”
“Westshore marks Ground Zero for a hotel building boom. Forty-one area projects are in the works - under construction, on the drawing board or somewhere in between, according to Lodging Econometrics.”
“Many won’t clear financing or regulatory hurdles. About half of lodging projects that haven’t reached construction never get built, says Duane Vinson, VP of Smith Travel Research.”
“Tighter lending restrictions resulting from the subprime home mortgage crash could sink marginal projects. Some analysts question whether a glut of new hotel rooms will outpace demand.”
“Weak demand for residential real estate has forced developers to reduce the number of condos from hotel projects or eliminate them altogether. Developer Dilip Kanji cut 20 condos from his Westin on Rocky Point when only a handful sold in six months of marketing.”
“Daniel Peek, (a) hotel consultant, says condos will make it tougher to obtain financing for a new hotel. ‘Projects where (condos) are a substantial component are raising a lot of questions,’ he says.”
The News Press. “Auctions are on the rise nationwide, according to a study. ‘People are starting to understand and see that auctions are an effective way of selling properties,’ said Troy Ayers, CEO of Premier Real Estate Auctions on Marco Island. ‘We literally get hundreds of calls weekly from people wanting to sell their properties.’”
“The flooded housing market is sparking auctions in Southwest Florida. ‘I think the thing that makes the auction process successful in bad times, it basically recreates what made us so successful in ’05,’ Ayers said. ‘The auction process assembles everyone together in one room and creates that excitement and creates this sense of urgency.’”
“Carla Bonten, a Bonita Springs real estate agent, got her auctioneer’s license in February. She held her first real estate auction on July 14 with 23 properties. No bids came in high enough to satisfy the sellers.”
“‘There was no competition,’ Bonten said. About 25 people attended, but only five bid. It was over in 45 minutes.”
“She said buyers can have fun and get good bargains while sellers can move their property. She said sometimes it’s better to take a loss or break even rather than potentially lose more on a property with mortgage, insurance, taxes and maintenance payments.”
“‘You have to be realistic. If you’re waiting for the price it was worth three years ago, it’s not going to happen,’ Bonten said.”
“Luxury Auction Group on Sanibel is holding fewer auctions in Southwest Florida than it did last year. ‘Auctions work better in a strong real estate market than they do in a slow real estate market,’ said broker/auctioneer Dan Mahaney. ‘We’re turning down 20 auctions a week in Florida right now.’”
“He said sellers have to be willing to let the market decide the price, even if it means taking a loss. ‘Most people that have bought their property in the last few years overpaid,’ he said. ‘They can’t rent it because there’s not enough renters for the number of people trying to rent.’”
“Mahaney has seen an uptick in auctions from a certain type of seller. ‘We’re actually getting more calls from lenders now that are prepared to do mass liquidation of properties all over the area.’”
‘At least now I have peace of mind,’ Stark said. ‘I really feel good. If I had a little money, I’d go out and celebrate.’
IMO, most people won’t want to be ‘rescued’ when they realize they are underwater on a loan/house.
‘The state of Florida’s economy should worry every Floridian. Some have even begun to use the R-word: Recession. State economist Frank Williams was one of them: ‘It looks very much like a recession,’ he said recently. ‘Going forward, we have a much weaker economic forecast.’
‘Florida Tax Watch, the conservative tax watchdog group, recently sent a memo that talked of the budget shortfall in startling terms: ‘While the state’s economists are not predicting a recession, there are signs that something fundamental may be changing in Florida’s economy,’ it said.’
‘It cited reports from United Van Lines that more moving vans are leaving Florida than are arriving here. TaxWatch also noted that ‘there is an unprecedented and as yet unexplained reduction in the estimated number of K-12 students.’ And it cited a Goldman Sachs analysis from May that predicted Florida is heading for a recession.’
‘NORTH PORT- With more than 2,000 students at the school this year, that’s saying something, it’s possible that number might increase. ‘Honestly don’t know if we should expect more students,’ Desjardins said, adding there is typically an influx of northern students around Labor Day.’
‘And with the housing market, and the bubble bursting, it’s getting a little cheaper to move down,’ he continued. ‘So we may have to expect a surge of 20 -to-30 kids.’
Just wait until he finds out that he’ll be taxed on the forgiven amount. He’ll really want to celebrate then.
He’ll =bBreak out the ol’ Ripple when that 1099 arrives with a thud.
Yep…They’ll all be screaming “Incoming” with no where to run when the 1099’s land. That in itself will be another bloody mess.
Help ME…I’m a Victim AGAIN and I DIDN’T know any better!
The banks aren’t universally reporting the forgiven debt. In any case the guy got a big gift that people who are responsible and put a hefty downpayment don’t get. Just another example of our punish the prudent society.
Since he’s an investor can he write off the difference between the price he bought it at and the price he sold it at?
Limited to $3000 in net capital losses above and beyond any capital gain amounts each year.
Just wait until he finds out that he’ll be taxed on the forgiven amount. He’ll really want to celebrate then.
Wait until he looks at his credit report, he will not be a happy camper!
” His property’s value dropped below what he still owed, $329,000. But rather than letting the townhouse fall into foreclosure, Stark worked out a deal in which he sold it for $285,000, and his lender forgave the difference.”
Sweet Sweet Justice when that 1099 comes flying in the mail from the IRS.
“Sweet Sweet Justice when that 1099 comes flying in the mail from the IRS.”
Particularly since so many houses and condos here in Florida were claimed as principal residences, in order to dodge capital gains tax on that big profit the flippers were gonna’ make — when in fact they were either second homes or just plain vacant. I’ve seen cases where local people bought a condo, switched principal residence claim from their house to the condo for “gains” purposes, and continued living in the house. The plan, obviously, was to keep the condo just long enough to qualify for the gains exemption, then sell it and re-establish principal residence status in the house or buy something bigger. Some of them probably were too dull to figure out that their house was going to be re-assessed at market for tax purposes — or else they thought they’d make such a killing on their flip that they didn’t care.
I think there’s some misunderstanding here. During the last downturn (1992), I did a short sale on a condo without paying any taxes, and I got 1099′d by the lender. I showed the tax board that I didn’t net out any cash from the sale (and lost a $20K down payment). All proceeds went to the lender so my tax liability was zero.
Now if I had refi’d and taken cash out, that would be another story, but this was on an original purchase loan.
‘The state of Florida’s economy should worry every Floridian. Some have even begun to use the R-word: Recession. State economist Frank Williams was one of them: ‘It looks very much like a recession,’ he said recently. ‘Going forward, we have a much weaker economic forecast.’
There are many clear signs that point to Florida experiencing a recession. In the Tampa Bay area, there are numerous mortgage and realestate businesses that have closed shop. Serveral funriture stores are closing and many other small businesses tied to the RE market are closing down shop. If you want to find a mortgage broker or a realestate person, they can be found working at your local department store and some fast food places.
If you want to find a mortgage broker or a realestate person, they can be found working at your local department store and some fast food places.
well that’s a good thing.
Every dept. store in my area is seriously understaffed. Even the supermarkets don’t have enough cashiers.
I’ve noticed the past few years that clerks wear many hats nowadays, they are expected to answer phones, and stop everything, to answer somebody on a phone… as you are going through the checkout stand, waiting for them to finish their conversation with somebody more important than me, or so it feels~
August 21, 2007
The Palm Beach Princess day-cruise line laid off 60 employees on Monday, despite receiving a break on its payments to the Port of Palm Beach last week.
Bankruptcy trustee Mark Calvert said the layoffs were part of a plan to speed the boarding process, made necessary by increased competition.
Calvert will upgrade the technology used to sort passengers, requiring fewer reservations workers and terminal agents. About 300 employees remain.
“We needed to reduce barriers to entry into our facility,” said Calvert, who was appointed trustee at the urging of the cruise line’s creditors in late July.
Palm Beach Casino Line, which operates the ship, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in December 2006, shortly after the port allowed SunCruz Casinos to set up a similar venture at the port. It already owed more than $30 million to its principal lender, debt largely unrelated to the Palm Beach Princess.
Last week, the Port of Palm Beach Commission agreed to eliminate dockage charges for Palm Beach Princess for eight months as part of a legal settlement. The move, which will save the line about $30,000 a month, was in the port’s best interest, Port Chairman Wayne Richards said in a statement.
The commission also suspended the $6 parking charge the port collects. Calvert termed the charge another “barrier” because competing venues such as The Isle Casino & Racing at Pompano Park don’t charge patrons for parking.
In another bid to make it an easier decision to cruise, Calvert said he plans to cut the weekday price of boarding from about $25 to about $10 and upgrade the food. Many regulars already get free or reduced admission. Also, the slot machines on the cruise will be set to pay off more easily.
Calvert said all of the changes are needed because casinos lose customers when they enter bankruptcy proceedings. “Revenue goes down about 15 percent,” said Calvert, who has managed casino firms in past workouts.
Calvert didn’t spell out exactly how the boarding process will change, but said a venture that uses similar technology at Port Canaveral, Sterling Casino Lines’ Ambassador II, boards about 500,000 passengers a year compared with about 250,000 who board annually on the Palm Beach Princess.
In a separate development affecting the day-cruise industry, Douglas R. Baetz and Glenn M. Gallant, the former majority owners of SeaEscape Entertainment Inc., were convicted last week by a federal court in Denver of conspiracy and sentenced to 10 years in prison for their role in the 1998 collapse of Boulder, Colo.-based BestBank.
“We remain optimistic that they will be vindicated on appeal,” SeaEscape said in a statement. A spokeswoman for SeaEscape said its current majority owner is a trust not controlled by Baetz and Gallant.
After the two were found guilty by a jury in the BestBank case in 2005, a resolution adopted by the Broward County Commission gave them a year to divest their ownership in the day cruise line.
South Florida Sun-Sentinel August 21, 2007
Boca Raton - Government
In its effort to slash $10 million from its budget to meet the requirements of the state legislature’s tax reform package, the Delray Beach City Commission may have to change its tactics.
To date, the board has tried to hold off on layoffs while suggesting such other ideas as increasing landlord permits and business fees, upping the utility tax and charging motorists for evening parking in the city’s new garage.
But Vice Mayor Fred Fetzer, at a workshop last week, urged his colleagues to review the city’s 800 employee positions to see if any can be trimmed as a means of saving money.
He noted that Boca Raton slashed 142 positions – resulting in 45 layoffs – to bring its budget in line.
Originally, Delray City Manager Dave Harden proposed laying off about 18 people. But budget reallocations reduced that number to two – one a vacant spot, the other a position filled by a person who is about to retire.
Fetzer noted that much of the Delray Beach budget– as is the Boca Raton spending sheet – goes to salaries and benefits.
Harden told commissioners it was his impression that the board wanted him to cut spending before imposing layoffs. He said the reduction of positions is still an option.
The commission meets tonight at 6 in City Hall. It is setting aside a portion of all its meetings for public comment about the budget.
Commissioners hope to adopt the 2007-2008 spending plan at its Sept. 18 meeting. The budget year begins Oct. 1.
Boca Raton News August 21
Finance
HomeBanc Mortgage Corp. is laying off workers at four of its Florida offices — but not Jacksonville.
HomeBanc notified the U.S. Department of Labor of 183 layoffs in Florida, effective Aug. 10, the same day the company filed for bankruptcy.
HomeBanc filed the Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notices Aug. 16. It said it had laid off 43 people at its Deerfield Beach location, 37 at its Palm Beach Gardens location, 44 at its Orlando location and 59 at its Tampa location.
The company, which originated billions in home loans across the Southeast, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Aug. 10. A few days before that, HomeBanc said Countrywide Financial would take over the lease of five of its offices in three states, including one in Deerfield Beach.
Jacksonville Business Journal August 21
“In another bid to make it an easier decision to cruise..”
Sheesh — sometimes I have to wonder if even the media is on the mafia payroll. What has “cruise” got to do with this? It is nothing but a gambling operation. The boats go just far enough offshore to be legal for gambling, the food by all accounts is atrocious, and the entire setup is just a casino that happens to float. There is no comfortable outside bar — it’s a building that floats. Earlier this year or last year, there was a stink about one of the gambling ships in Port Canaveral because someone got very ill on the boat or had some other issue and wanted to get off and they wouldn’t let the person(s) off who wanted to get off — obviously their pockets had not been picked clean enough.
More of that sleaze is coming to Florida, I guarantee. The politicians will seize on the populace’s dread of higher property taxes to propose gambling as the only remedy to fund their overspending.
Calvert said all of the changes are needed because casinos lose customers when they enter bankruptcy proceedings. “Revenue goes down about 15 percent,” said Calvert, who has managed casino firms in past workouts.
No kidding. They lose their bottomless ATM.
There are over 5000 people in Florida that were laid off today. 2,400 Suntrust, 60 Jacksonville Times Union, 183 Homebanc, 60 Palm Beach Princess, government state and local 3,200. This was a brief look see.
oops only 1000 floridians at SunTrust. My bad.
‘At least now I have peace of mind,’ Stark said. ‘I really feel good. If I had a little money, I’d go out and celebrate.’
Better save the pizza and beer money for the taxes due on the $100k 1099 statement the stiffed lender will send which will arrive in January.
“..his lender forgave the difference.”
Not so fast on the 1099. I seriously hope they go after him because it’s a slap in our faces if not, but (depending on state RE laws) the lender can issue a deficiency judgement or issue the 1099.
That assumes he’s not insolvent at the time of the foreclosure. By, “forgave”, I hope they mean they only waived the def. judgement. But if he wrote them a hardship letter claiming insolvency, they may have waived the 1099 as well.
I would like to make a comment on Bethesda, Potomac, Rockville, MD. I noticed that nothing is moving in the last two weeks. In addition with all the media about mortgage crisis, peeps are still not lowering prices for the most part. Is anybody seeing the same thing in the cities I mentioned or other parts of DC area. What is it going to take to get these Homoownwers to reduce prices?
What is it going to take to get these Homoownwers to reduce prices?
FORCLOSURE.
Oh this is not going to be your run of the mill crash. As is being reported in the news today the majority of states are posting increases in foreclosure.
Tightening the lending standards seems to be what will precipate the crash. There really is nothing left except for prices to go down. The large majority of American’s are so deep in debt and/or aren’t making enough to satisfy the new stricter standards.
And you can see it happening already. They are not giving buyers much options so we will continue to wait the situation out. Either drop the prices or lose your home but the buyer is not going to bail the situation out.
Things in my neighborhood (20852) are still moving and selling fairly quickly if they are priced in the $700,000 to $850,000 range. There are seven houses under $679,000 on Realtor.com in 20852 but these are not nice houses. Anything nice in a better neighborhood is at least $800,000. Four houses sold in my neighborhood recently and two of them sold before the first open house and the other two sold in a few weeks.
I have noticed one house, put on the market last week at a competitive (relative to bubble peak) price - 400K - I thought it would have been snapped up quickly, like in a day or two or three - no such thing has happened.
I am awestruck walking around my (gently put) “transitional neighborhood” East of the Capitol and looking at what is being offered for sale at current prices. Tiny houses that often share alleys with public housing projects….
July YOY median in my Zip is down 14.75% to about 490K. These are simple, 1,000 square foot row houses with fast food wrappers blowing gently down the sidewalks, and sometimes the yards, in front of them.
It really, really was a classic mania. Now, the money is gone and we are going to begin the real process of waking up. It is going to take a long time for this to unwind.
Tiny houses that often share alleys with public housing projects….
These urban POS houses will NEVER, EVER pass underwriting scrutiny today.
Gentrified my azz…
The FAT LADY is singin’ loud…
Arlington, VA 22202 here. Same houses sitting forlornly for sale, week after bloody week. Looks like a “fashionably late” flipper arrived last week to try and rescue the turd of a house across the street from me. Good luck with that.
“‘The auction process assembles everyone together in one room and creates that excitement and creates this sense of urgency.’”
And there you have it folks. Fear on the way up, fear on the way down.
Frankly, I’m about fed up with the fear-mongering 21st century.
Except in the next paragraph they say one auction only got 5 potential buyers and none of them bid enough to satisfy the sellers. So much for the “excitement” and for “getting everyone together”. As for me the last place I’d buy is an auction. It’s better to work with the bank or seller one on one.
That’s because they are trying to acution overpriced POS’s!!!!
Bring those prices to 2002 range and watch them go.
I have 200k in loose cash and ready to transact……. when the price is right. And that means assigning the price in any year between 1900 and 1998, adding 3.5%/year to get market value. Until then, I’ll take my 5.5% FDIC insured gains. The koolade guzzling, bong hitting clowns who think they’re sitting on a million dollar lottery ticket can starve. Rent costs me $150/month (from family) and I could give a shit less if the whole damn economy unwinds from San Franscisco to Singapore.
I’m afraid that even 2002 prices won’t save this market. Remember that in 2002, if you were sub-prime or alt-A you could get a mortgage. We may see 2002 prices sooner rather than later, but we aren’t going to see easy mortgages for 20 years.
The good thing about auctions is there is less chance of Fake Mutliple bidders.
Is anything this has been the biggest problem in this mania I have seen. Your realtor tells you there are 5-6 offers and your told to bid 10-15% above asking and your not told what the other offers are. Some would be surprised to know there was only one bidder out there. Take away the commission scheme and you pretty much wipe out the hoax fake multiple bid created by realtors.
The bank sends in shill bidders all the time.
Only fools buy at auction. Remember, if you won, it meant that NOBODY thought the property was worth what you paid. Things might change when there’s a flood of foreclosures being auctioned, and “reserves” are eliminated.
The comments on that Sun Sentinel article are priceless. 360 degree change in attitude from even a year ago.
so the attitude is the same from a year ago after momentarily reversing?
Perhaps you meant 180 degree change?
Hahahah. Right. Senior moment, here.
what is really funny is they have an interactive media thing on the real estate section from late 2005 talking about how hot the market is yada yada yada
Do they have that interactive media thing there for historical purposes? Or is it there to make us HBB-ers laugh?
Not sure but I have wondered. They are just following the mediaq/money herd.
Speaking of recession — how about three bridges closed near the airport? My mom lives near the 17th avenue bridge and that thing has been closed off and on for more than a year. The latest one closed due to safety. Yes, infrastructure falling apart while million dollar effeciencies going up. And the crash has only just begun.
True America’s infrastures are well into decline.
I am just waiting for these “creative” WS money making adventures to get the State to privatize them, do modest repairs with forever Toll booths and lease them to China for 99 years.
Seriously, is there something we can do for these people before they drag us all down? I’m encouraged to see that Congress is considering legislation that will allow more people to remain in their homes. Personally, I’ve never met anyone who felt bad about lending a helping hand.
Your kidding right?
You would take money from me to bail out someone else and prop up home prices?
If they do anything I think they should eliminate the debt-forgiveness = income tax for everyone who hasn’t pulled equity out of their home (to buy toys).
The problem is too big and too many people need bailed out (just about anyone who bought in the past 5 years)
I concur!
George, gimme a break!
NO BAILOUTS FOR FB’S!!
Absolutely!
I am tired of being financially responsible by living within my means and zero credit. Nobody wants to bail me out. I can’t afford to buy a home and we are going to bail out those who foolishly got over their heads?
G’me a freaking break!
But I think George has a point…
What if the bank, who because of what and who they know, had financial information that the FB didn’t/couldn’t have? Is it possible that the bank, with that information, may have commit fraud by offering loans that wouldn’t likely be paid back under the (secret) circumstances? How do you right a wrong? As a society, shouldn’t we have some compassion for FBers? We’re in this together…
But I think George has a point…
What if the bank, who because of what and who they know, had financial information that the FB didn’t/couldn’t have? Is it possible that the bank, with that information, may have commit fraud by offering loans that (they knew) wouldn’t be paid back under those (secret) circumstances? How do you right a wrong? As a society, shouldn’t we have some compassion for FBers? We’re in this together…
I made some poor stock and mutual fund investments, so I should be bailed out too! After all, it wasn’t my fault I bought them at their high and they fell becasue of poor underlying fundamentals.
My Lotto numbers were duds last week - I would like a refund - bailout so that I may try my luck again.
And I’ve made a few boneheaded business decisions in the last five years. So, where is MY bailout?
My car is worth less than what I paid for it. I am ENTITLED to a bailout! My clothes are worth less than what I paid for them, I am ENTITLED to a bailout!
I’ve actually seen a commercial for this:
“If you’ve lost money in the stock market, call this attorney!” Don’t remember the idiots name. But that was last year I saw that. I was floored!!
Dude, not a very Groovy idea.
That’s pretty far out George.
Will you bail me out of my tech stocks from 2000? I feel sorry for me.
If the homes were theirs sure they could stay in them. That’s the problem. People don’t buy homes anymore, they rent them from the bank. No one is kicking people out of their homes, they’re exercising their contractual rights to sell the collateral against which the loan was written.
If you want to fuss and whine about people losing “their” homes then protest at the next tax sale. Tax sales and eminent domain are the only cases where a home owned free and clear is taken from the owner.
My house in Silicon Valley was underwater in the early 1990s. The loan was more than the house was worth. But we had good jobs and stuck it out. We never, ever thought that any one should help us out. It was our decision to buy the house, and our problem to deal with it. Since we only bought the house as a place to live, and we wanted to live there, we weren’t even that concerned. The silver lining was I really learned an important lesson — house prices do go down! — and I sold that house in 2005 and started renting.
Seriously, is there something we can do for these people before they drag us all down?
Yes, let them go into forclosure or bankruptcy. Then they will have a tougher time doing this to us again in the next 7-10 years.
Seriously, is there something we can do for these people before they drag us all down?
Yeah! Bring back debtor’s prison and the poorhouse.
I wonder if George is reading our replies to him anymore.
You have to admit that it was a good troll - look at the responses
George W. Groovy
Realtor “at large”
Maybe a manager for Dodd’s campaign - testing the waters?
Sure there will be some homeowners that the lenders can choose to save by re-writing their 13% rate down to 6 or 7% if its in the best interest of the bank that made the loan in my opinion . The contract is between the lender and the borrower and the Govt. has no business using the tax funds to bail out a bad contract where the lender didn’t qualify the borrower .If there was fraud involved in the contract ,than it’s especially true that the Gov. has no business offering a helping hand .
The lenders should be sending out notices to the marginal loan borrowers that they are willing to discuss a possible re-write on the gouging loan they set up . The government doesn’t even need to give a incentive for lenders to do this because it’s in the best interest of the lender to avoid a foreclosure if the borrower can really pay on the new re-write of loan terms .
As far as the speculators go and the non-owner occupied transactions ,they are toast and not even worth trying to save .These gambling borrowers can try to save themselves by refinancing or renting or whatever ,but they are a poor risk for the lender to even try to keep their loan afloat .
I don’t know why the CDO’s and MBS’s can’t have the ability to work with borrowers because these lenders all have service agreement for collections on the loans .
Also, after I bought my last house about 25 years ago the market went into the tank . I didn’t bail on the loan or expect the bank to give me a break because the house prices went down 2 years after I bought the joint . People who expect to make a profit so shortly after buying a home are crazy. One of my neighbors at the time did go down the tubes and the bank lost alot of money on that borrower .The reason that neighbor went down the tubes is because they borrowed to much to by toys ,like fancy cars and RV’s.
If the lenders made a bad loan than its their position to do all the damage control they can and just take the loss . As far as the borrower goes ,nobody promised you a rose garden ,(except of course the NAR/realtors /mortgage agents /and the mainstream media and their advertisers .)
if lenders do decide to renegotiate loan terms, it should be only for owner occupants. also, if the borrower originally got a no doc liar loan, the lender should make the borrower prove that they didn’t lie about income or assets on the original loan app.
What? I am absolutely opposed to “lending a helping hand”.
The FB’s love to talk about the problem of “people losing their homes” because it’s something that everyone can sympathize with. But these people aren’t in danger of becoming “homeless people”. They are people who made bad investments. They acted out of nothing other than an insidious mixture of greed and irresponsibility and now they are asking society to pay for their indiscretions.
My response is (pardon my french) : fuck them.
I think I speak for most people here when I say we have shown restraint and responsibility over the past 5 years. We have endured all sorts of name calling (Has anyone here *not* been called an ‘idiot’ for not buying?)
I’ll be damned if I see one red cent of my responsibly saved money go to “save” a moron who was hoping to get rich quick.
If a lender or appraiser fudged the loan docs, go after them. If the buyer fudged them then they belong on the street. It’s called fraud.
Its the lenders who need to bail out their own borrowers if they want to and it should have nothing to do with the taxpayers .
If the government were to do a bailout, I would prefer that they finance the empty house next door for the FB, which is going for 150k less. At least that way, we would have some chance of getting the tax dollars back.
‘You can’t make it up. We’re struggling to keep things going until things turn around.’”
Might be a useful quote for the FED…MSM might want to create about a dozen re-writes of this phrase over the next few weeks.
This is a bit un p.c., but so be it…
When aladinsane was a young’in, back in the 60’s the short bus that brought the retarded kids to my elementary school was called “Mahaney Bus Co.”, and all my life it’s been a code word to call somebody a retard, without hurting anybody, if I uttered it in their presence.
Hadn’t seen this unusual name in awhile, and look how it shows up again.
“Stupid Mahaneys”… the auctioneer driving the short bus, this go round~
“Mahaney has seen an uptick in auctions from a certain type of seller. ‘We’re actually getting more calls from lenders now that are prepared to do mass liquidation of properties all over the area.’”
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/20/real_estate/July_foreclosures_soar/index.htm
“Mortgage Meltdown 2007
Foreclosures: No relief in sight
July foreclosures nearly double from last year; industry group raises forecast for more.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — The flood of foreclosure filings showed no sign of let-up in July, according to the latest data from RealtyTrac, the online marketer of foreclosure properties.
179,599 foreclosure filings, which include default notices, auction sale notices and bank repossessions, were reported nationwide for a 9 percent rise over the previous month and a 93 percent jump compared with July, 2006.
his past winter, RealtyTrac had forecast a 33 percent increase in U.S. foreclosures for the year but now it’s raised its outlook. “It’s trending to close to 2 million now, 60 percent more than last year,” said Rick Sharga, RealtyTrac’s vice president for marketing.”
So last year they predicted a 33% rise.
Now that data shows a 93% y-o-y rise, they predict a 60% rise.
Does that mean the real number will be 180%….?
Went back to realtor.com the other day and wishing prices on equivalent homes in our old Sarasota ZIP code are still remarkably high. Only one realistic seller out of about 25 listings on that site. It will be interesting to see how long his property stays up for sale.
Bill,
I have been watching my area for three years now. This is one of the most desirable towns in South Florida boasting a highschool in the top 1 pecent in the country. The town is built so as to discourage anything but those with money. Yes, very homogonized as as result.
There majority of homes sit behind gated communities. The larges of those has gated communities INSIDE the gated community!
Three years ago the average home price was around $750K. That would get you a close to zero lot home with barely 2000 S.F. Forget a pool or privacy.
Today, that average is hovering around $450K. This happened in the second quarter of this year!
They are still building and breaking ground on new subdivisions. They are scaling back the size of the new elementary school.
This week, I saw several homes go “inactive” on Zillow after sitting on the market 300 days or more. I see some of them come back on Zillow a day or two later. Usually at the last reduced price and voila! The home has only been on the market few days.
But I have to say that in the last couple of weeks, I have seen something different. Not only am I seeing listing in the low $400’s now, but I am seeing an influx of OVERPRICED homes. It is as if there is a rush to sell at the highest price possible because they are now watching the news and think they can do what everyone else around them can’t, sell their home at a 300% profit. I just laugh!
One home has the nerve to ask $800K and stated “needs TLC.” Weeds visible in the front yard and a green skunky pool. The nerve to actually post those pictures!
Down the road, there is a similar home which has reduced now to $565K. Weeds and algea not included.
SuzieQ,
The ZIP and the price range I follow is somewhat lower in price. We were not in a gated community. I admit I haven’t followed the entire Sarasota market. Have condo prices crashed much yet?
“Howard estimated that 80 to 90 percent of the filings will go through the entire foreclosure process.”
I remember the REIC happily reminding all that the ‘average’ default to foreclosure rate was around 8%. That figure was one of the underpinnings for a ’soft landing’ (remember that one?!). The amount of wishful thinking and kool aid still slopping around in the barrel will yet drown a fair number.
“‘A lot of it is people assuming that the values were going to keep on increasing,’ said. ‘And they didn’t want to be left out. They figured if they didn’t buy a house today, they wouldn’t be able to afford it later on.’”
Quote from your local Board of Realtors ™: “If you don’t buy now, you’ll be PRICED OUT FOREVER”.
Thanks REATWHORES for enabling buyers to make very stupid financial decisions………..remember Suzanne……….”you can do this.”
Still not very smart people if they would buy something at the urging of real estate agent without figuring if they can actually afford it.
Quote from your local Board of Realtors ™: “If you don’t buy now, you’ll be PRICED OUT FOREVER”.
I never understood that argument. I make a decent living so if I’m priced out forever that means others like me are to. So, who is going to come along and buy from me?
a new class of mortgage loan:
“very subprime”
Sub-Subprime mortgages…
Get’em while they’re hot… only 18% APR!
Colleen Kelly (realtor): “It’s unfortunate that someone earning a decent living finds herself in this situation…..” I wonder how many time Colleen Kelly said to a would-be buyer who was worried about meeting the payments: “Now is a good time to buy and property in this area always goes up.” I have a suggestion. Any fb who was told, “Now is a good time to buy,” should consult a lawyer and see if the real estate broker can be sued for deception. If the realtors employed by a broker had several realtors who came out with that b.s phrase, “Now is a good time to buy,” then perhaps a class action lawsuit would be in order. Even if these as*shole realtors and brokers had to defend the lawsuit and eventually won it would cost them plenty in legal fees. I would LOVE to see these brokers and realtors lose their assets, including their homes. Okay, let the fb’s pay the price of greed and stupidity but the realtors and mortgage brokers need to get their feet put to the flames as well.
I would PAY top dollar to see main street realturds and mortgage brokers do the perp walk.
I would PAY top dollar to see main street realturds and mortgage brokers do the perp walk.
All in good time! Just sit back and wait, you won’t have to pay a cent for the entertainment that is in the making!!
If only they were regulated like securities dealers…
You mean just like the dealers who sold MBSs, CDOs and whatever other trash to public pension funds?
What’s fascinating about all the acronyms (i’m a lifelong avid acronyst) flowing out financially out of their wrecked’em… CDO, MBS, etc
It’s very reminiscent of the alphabet soup of 1930’s New Deal depressionary acronyms, i.e. NRA, WPA, CCC, PWA, etc.
Interesting times, for sure.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070821/news_1b21taxes.html
“Foreclosure’s other shoe: a big tax bill
For many who lose their homes, debt burden doesn’t end”
Old news for readers on this blog. Nasty surprise for many others, no doubt… Anyway, here’s a sob-story about yet another “victim”:
“Two years ago, William Stout lost his home in Allentown, Pa., to foreclosure when he could no longer make the payments on his $106,000 mortgage. Wells Fargo offered the two-bedroom house for sale on the courthouse steps. No bidders came forward. So Wells Fargo bought it for $1, county records show.
Despite the setback, Stout was relieved that his debt was wiped clean and he could make a new start. He married and moved in with his wife, Denise.
But on July 9, they received a bill from the Internal Revenue Service for $34,603 in back taxes. The letter explained that the amount of debt canceled by Wells Fargo upon foreclosure was subject to income taxes, as well as penalties and late fees. The couple had a month to challenge the charges.
The Stouts had originally tried to sell the house themselves and thought the bank takeover extinguished the debt.
“Getting that tax bill, my first thought was that I needed to see my family doctor to help me with my stress, because we had a big mortgage and other debt and then here came the IRS saying we owe this,” Denise Stout recalled.
For those who struggle to pay their bills, who watch their housing payments rise out of reach with their adjustable mortgages, who lose a job or who fall victim to illness, losing one’s home can feel like hitting bottom. But one more financial indignity may await as the fallout from the great housing boom ripples across the United States.”
OMFG! I love how this idiot has a “big mortgage” on his current residence even though he foreclosed on his former home two years ago. Yeah, he’s a real victim. Maybe Senator Dodd should meet him?
He probably used his wife’s credit report to get it. For a long time banks will let you use either or both credit reports. Someone who can’t get a mortgage because of bad credit can use the spouse’s or other partner’s good credit report to buy, if their income alone qualifies for the payments. Then there’s two deeds recorded. One for the party that has their name on the loan, and a second one minutes later with both names.
I was thinking there’s something fishy too….
“Stout was relieved that his debt was wiped clean and he could make a new start. He married and moved in with his wife, Denise”
I bet they lived together before the foreclosure.
yeah dude, like somebody mentioned it here, this guy got a $100K gift from WellsFargo, he should pay tax on it.
question: how would the IRS go about getting the back taxes if this person has no assets, do they go the regular route of filing a court claim? or can they directly start garnishing his wages. please excuse my ignorance here, and since we do not have debtors prison anymore, can this person still endup in jail?
got cash?
If you keep reading, the Wells Fargo sold it for the amount of the mortgage within a couple of weeks. This guy should not owe taxes because there was no debt forgiveness - they just forced him to sell the collateral to pay the debt.
Ok, so forgiven debt IS a gift. However don’t forget that these same IRS goons count inflation as “gains”. For example, grandma buys x consumer good in 1950 and sells the exact same consumer good with fair wear and tear for way more “dollars” in 1998. Even though the item has depreciated in real terms the IRS fraudulently claims that you’ve made a “profit” on the sale.
Frankly I can never bring myself to consider the IRS good guys in light of this open and blatent fraud.
I don’t think the banks are under any obligation to state the IRS tax liability is to the borrower on a short sale .Somewhere in the body of the loan contract it’s most likely mentioned that funds that are forgiven are subject to tax liability on the part of the forgiven party .The bank I think has a certain amount of time to be within statue in declaring the loss I would assume .
Also some of those people that got cars and benefits or gifts for buying a place might find themselves getting a tax bite for a gift depending on how it was declared by the builder or seller .
If his taxes on $105,999 are $34,603, doesn’t that mean that he makes pretty good money, on the order of about $50K-$75K per year??
If so, I’m stunned that someone on that salary couldn’t make the payment.
Oh, duh!! They view the $105,999 as income. So he might only make $20K per year in his normal job but that year his income was seen as $125,999. Again, duh!
Crawling back into my corner now.
Dodd on CNBC right now saying “government should do whatever it can to let all 2 million” FB ” keep their homes in the next few years”, God he is such a pric@.
He’s pandering to the masses, nothing more.
When Dodd talks about a “bailout” I don’t think he means for the “homeowners” that got “dreadful loans”.
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.asp?CID=N00000581&cycle=2006
“He’s pandering to the masses, nothing more. ”
That’s funny, I thought those in trouble were an eensie, weensie percentage of a teenie, tiny portion of homebuyers!
Sarcasm off.
I”m going to go out & scrape the bottom of the lender barrel to see if I can get a loan for at least 10xs our income. Then I’ll refi and get a new car, flat screen etc. Who cares if I really can’t afford it, Dodd wants to bail me out. Obviously being responsible and prudent is not the way to go here in the good old USA.
I loved the part where he mumbled something about giving people assets to stay in their homes and avoid foreclosure. WTF? Only in the USA could the government tax a renter family (mine) at the highest rate and then turn around and use the dollars collected from them to create assets for a lower income homeowner. I have to cringe.
You know, Senator Dodd, my family would like a home that we own at some point also. Only thing is that we won’t pay 2.5X our income (which is in the top 1% of household incomes) for an 80 year old lead and asbestos filled POS house on a postage stamp size lot.
Dodd is pitching for his homeboys, and hoping that his rants for the “little guys” gain some traction. His base and supporters are the bankers and hedgies in Greenwich, Westport, Guilford, and the like. Even he knows he can’t sell a “save the rich” story, but if he can tailor his pitch to the low end, the effect is to provide cover for his base. He’s talking his book, basically.
Why doesn’t the gov. give a grant to a qualified buyer that buys a foreclosure ,or better yet the lender can do that to unload their inventory . Give a qualified buyer a low interest rate to save the lender from a total wipe out .
“‘You have to be realistic. If you’re waiting for the price it was worth three years ago, it’s not going to happen,’ Bonten said.”
If your waiting for buyers at higher prices than three years ago it is not going to happen either Bonten. Based on the first attempt to sell houses at the auction, it looks like your failing to see the properties at the unrealistic price levels.
If other mortgage companies follow Option One and stop making condo loans in Florida then people won’t be able to give their condos away. I am guessing it is just a matter of time before other mortgage lenders stop making condo loans, they must be thinking what does Option One know that I don’t know.
Option One, the mortgage subsidiary of H & R Block said in a corporate bulletin on Aug. 3 that it will not accept mortgage submissions secured by condominiums in Florida.
It cut a break to some existing mortgage holders, while tightening regulations and requirements for new borrowers in other states.
Any three-year adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs) that are in its pipeline will automatically be transitioned into five-year ARMs, thus giving the borrowers a fixed-rate payment for a longer time. The three-year ARM will no longer be offered.
Irvine Calif.-based Option One also tightened eligibility, processing and underwriting requirements:
It will only originate full document loans for owner-occupied, primary premises - no second homes.
No refinance submissions will be accepted if a property is vacant or has been listed for sale for the last three months.
Appraisals must be less than 90 days old and must include one comparable sale less than three months old and one current listing. All other comparables must be less than six months old.
Effective immediately, Option One will begin calling the borrower directly to confirm critical contact information and review loan terms on all wholesale loans before proceeding to closing.
In April, H & R Block (NYSE: HRB) agreed to sell Option One to an affiliate of Cerberus Capital at its net asset value at the time of closing, less a discount of $300 million. The company said the closing could be delayed until Dec. 31.
Speaking of condos, did anyone else hear this on NPR this morning?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=13818677
Conspicuously absent was any discussion of who might actually buy these condos. They are to be located on a former Navy base that required a good bit of environmental remediation. Some neighbors are complaining that the construction dust is making them sick.
Option One, the mortgage subsidiary of H & R Block said in a corporate bulletin on Aug. 3 that it will not accept mortgage submissions secured by condominiums in Florida.
It cut a break to some existing mortgage holders, while tightening regulations and requirements for new borrowers in other states.
Any three-year adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs) that are in its pipeline will automatically be transitioned into five-year ARMs, thus giving the borrowers a fixed-rate payment for a longer time. The three-year ARM will no longer be offered.
Irvine Calif.-based Option One also tightened eligibility, processing and underwriting requirements:
It will only originate full document loans for owner-occupied, primary premises - no second homes.
No refinance submissions will be accepted if a property is vacant or has been listed for sale for the last three months.
Appraisals must be less than 90 days old and must include one comparable sale less than three months old and one current listing. All other comparables must be less than six months old.
Effective immediately, Option One will begin calling the borrower directly to confirm critical contact information and review loan terms on all wholesale loans before proceeding to closing.
In April, H & R Block (NYSE: HRB) agreed to sell Option One to an affiliate of Cerberus Capital at its net asset value at the time of closing, less a discount of $300 million. The company said the closing could be delayed until Dec. 31.
Chris Dodd on CNBC now sweating up a storm and begging for increased Fannie Mae loan limits to protect his bankster constitutents…call him up and let him hear of your rage, 202-224-2823.
I just did. Told the kid on phone them I wanted bailout for my tech stock choices from 99-2000. He said he would look into it!!
Sounds like you talked with one of his elves…
‘He’s making a list, who’s voting or not, he’ll promise you anything you’d ever want. Santa Dodd is coming toooo town….’
Dodd says that the foreclosures are no fault of the borrowers.
What an idiot he is! Do the Connecticut voters feel ashamed?
Excellent. Just got of the phone. My message was quite clear “NO bailout for lenders or borrowers. No shifting liability to Fanny or Freddy”.
I called and gave them a piece of my mind.
Please everyone call!
Exactly. Anyone who can, should call and do it today.
Dodd is giving everyone the ‘Mania Defense “.
I just called too. The gal even put someone else on hold to talk to me (probably her boyfriend anyway). Told her that an increase in loan limits only bails out the banks. I also told her that any Federal bailout for borrowers who are facing foreclosure is an insult to hardworking, taxpayers who save and live within their means. I feel really good right now!
Revolution! I love it!
just called told the girl about the victims of predatory lending bragging how they had already doubled their money in 2005
Good job folks. Stay on ‘em.
“Fort Lauderdale real estate agent Colleen Kelly has a client who owns a two-bedroom condominium in Oakland Park. She paid $160,000 in 2005 and still owes about $158,000.”
“Unable to keep up with the payments, Kelly’s client wants to sell, but the condo has lost value. She’s listing it for $142,000 but competing with dozens of other units in the same complex that also are for sale.”
This is a 160K debt and look how difficult things have gotten for this gal.
Funny how this bubble had 160-200K debts referred to as “starter homes”.
I always thought financing 160K or more to be an extreme amount of money.
I guess I was right in my thinking.
I hate it when people whine about how they’re losing there homes. Who cares? Who gives a hoot? Quite honestly, who cares if the flippers and yuppies who bought in the last several years get swept out to sea, eh? I’m surprised that the whole thing didn’t collapse years ago. In reality, we don’t need the BS finance economy that we’ve become. Hedge funds and derivatives and all of the other creative investments and loans are worthless; I don’t care if the biggest hedge fund is worth $2 billion or $200 billion or $200 trillion, to me it’s worth $0.00 USD. People in this country keep complaining about how housing goes up and down in price, about how gas is at $3.50 a gallon, how gold and silver are overrated or underrated, it’s the BS finance market that has shown up. I don’t care if the price of housing goes back to 2002 levels or 1999 levels or 1839 levels, I won’t buy because of all the fraud and title games that have gone on. This housing boom/scam is just a small part of the mentality that Americans have. Chris Dodd is an idiot for thinking that we can bail out the homeowners; only if you want gasoline and milk to both go to $20 per gallon would you do that. We basically scammed ourselves into bankruptcy. Will the Feds try to bail out the housing economy? Sure. Will it work? Probably not. There comes a breaking point in mathematics where no matter how much money you add to any given construct, whether it’s the fraud ridden housing market or the fraud ridden stock market or any of the other garbage we try to pass as investments in this country, you won’t save it, and you’ll likely do much more damage to the country as a whole.
Housing certainly will fall apart if the virtual finance dissappears. It could sink back to early 90s values in many areas. Gasoline and commodities and prices of most other things would fall as well. Problem is, most Americans are so indebted to each other and to non-American entities, and given that a massive deflation would lead to rampant unemployment, that even if they basically gave away houses literally for under 5 digit figures, no one has the cash to buy, not to mention the obvious legal and title frauds and scams that have been pushed in the last decade. Reality is, most people don’t have $500 cash to their name outside of fictitious finance like 401ks and pensions (likely to be worthless in a hyperdeflationary scenario).
Dodd is trying to show, “He cares”. He’s not so much an idiot as a wanna-be president who figures he’s found a platform which will give him plenty of photo-ops, showing him to be a good guy who has the interests of the little people at heart. These politicians are all self promoting bums and liars. Not just the dems but the republicans as well. I wish that they would hold another You Tube for politicians and someone poses the question, “Senator Dodd. You seem to be jumping on the real estate meltdown bandwagon now - but why were you and the rest of our “caring” politicians who were NOT making comments and warning the little people over the last five years that this was a train wreck gathering speed and heading for one almighty crash. Oh, yes. Please don’t use the excuse that none of you knew the fraud and scams and deception was happening when there were dozens of internet blogs sounding the alarms. Ben Jones “Housingbubbleblog” being in the front of the charge.
Just got an e-mail from a friend in Tampa who owns an investment condo in one of the new Tampa highrises on Channelside (just closed on it a few months ago.) She also owns a two bedroom at Portofino in Pensacola Beach that she’s been trying to sell for well over a year and has now furnished and is renting it out to vacationers.
She just got a year-round renter for the place in Tampa. Apparently a college student with a rich father (as the rent on the two bedroom place was $3000 a month.) Who is paying that in Tampa anyway? There are no jobs there to support that.
But anyway- the Tampa renter’s father made an offer to buy the place and she turned it down because she thinks in a year or two the values will be higher. She thinks Channelside will be this great place to live with shops, the cruise ships, and the movie theaters.
Yes, I know. I couldn’t believe it myself. I had to nearly restrain myself as I was responding to her e-mail.
She paid $400,000 for the two bedroom, two bath unit (granite kitchen etc.) in Channelside.
She paid $400,000 for the Pensacola Beach property and now has it listed for $660,000 with no takers. Only a handful of properties a month are selling in Pensacola Beach (out of something like 350 listed with water views.)
She just told me that prices have hit a “bottom” and are now “going up” so she feels they’ll be able to sell for a nice profit in a year or two.
What do you say to someone who is talking like that right now given everything in the news?
I’m telling you- she is not alone. There are dozens of other people out there like her still drinking the kool-aid. It’s why we’re not even close to hitting the bottom yet.
“What do you say to someone who is talking like that right now given everything in the news?”
Response: “Good luck with that”
Or, “How is that working for you?”
““How is that working for you?””
I like that one. Non-judgmental and throws it right back at them to think about a bit more.
This is why we are no where near the bottom. Until people like her are foreclosed upon, or have to go through soooo many years of bleeding and decide it just isn’t worth it, we still have a ways to go. It will take a long time to correct peoples mentality, not a 2 or 3 year drop, but a decade or more.
This just occurred to me….not only are these people losing homes to foreclosure now, but with the newly (or almost newly) tighter lending requirements, plus the foreclosure on their credit report, haven’t millions of people also eliminated themselves as buyers for YEARS to come??
“She just told me that prices have hit a “bottom” and are now “going up” so she feels they’ll be able to sell for a nice profit in a year or two.”
Well, she might be right. Minimum wage just got raised to $5.85/hr. That extra $28/week will surely reignite the real estate mania.
Hey, wait ’til it goes up to the stopping point of $7.15! Road to riches, here we come!
New minimum wage won’t help anyone in Ohio. Ours has been $6.85 since last January.
“investment condo”
Snicker….heh, heh.
Bailout coming per MSNBC.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20364043/
Can’t let housing get too affordable. Let’s use the government to redistribute income in a way that benefits the right people.
We are a nation of imbeciles ruled by a mafia. Doesn’t bode well for the future does it?
This all sounds like window dressing to satisfy the Dodd’s constituents. Realistically, what can be done to stem the tide of foreclosures? What relief can be offered?
All the politicos are positioning themselves for the 2008 election. And then they’ll offer happy talk but they know darn well that there’s no band-aid cure to this real estate fiasco.
This all sounds like window dressing to satisfy the Dodd’s constituents. Realistically, what can be done
You are so right. Think about it.
1) No doc loans didn’t have income to qualify, so how are they going to make payments now
2)Housing prices rose way above income. I don’t see income increasing to meet those prices anytime soon
3)Sub-prime loans are people who almost always default on everything. Credit cards are behind, car and utility payments are delinquent. You think they’re going to change. I don’t see them taking any sense of responsibility anytime soon.
4)The people who heloc’d to the hilt to buy everything their little heart desires, certainly aren’t going to lose their sense of entitlement any time soon. They’ll just run more credit cards up until they have to choose between food or making the mortgage payment
That leaves responsible buyers and I don’t see any of them jumping in the buy these overpriced houses anytime soon.
It’ll just delay the foreclosures.
If they raise the jumbo rates it’ll mostly be used in areas that housing is extremely high and, face it, most of those people do not have good credit or 10% down.
If they do it I am leaving the country. Why should I stay and work only to be forced to play their corrupt game or worse, have my money confiscated to pay for moronic sheeple?
Where would you go instead?
Watcher,
Here’s the problem. I’m up here in Canada, and they’ve had a lot of coverage of the Three Amigos meeting in Ottawa. Basically, the ordinary Canadians are pissed at being forced into ever tighter integration with the US and Mexico. Now, it covers security, border issues, military, and wait-for-it, health care isssues, as well as NAFTA. At least the Canadian press is noting, if briefly, that all these deals are being made secretly, on the executive level, without broad Congressional or Parliamentary oversight.
Where’s augur-in? If he’s not traveling, he has been right on this stuff. Notice that it has little traction in the US press, the Times tucked a short notice way back in the first section.
Dodd is a pandering turd that just happened to be a floater. The people of Connecticut need to give him the swirly-twirl of a royal flush.
So which is it? Hyperinflation or hyperdeflation?
Screech monkeys hyperventilating between bong hits on Kudlow and Company……..:)
All these people calling for a bailout should realize they are ones hammering the nails in the coffin of the economy. Keeping this party going is just going to make a recession more severe or increase the likely hood of a depression. Have Dodd and his ilk even looked around to see house prices and incomes and savings rates. Even if they keep some of the people in their homes or reduce mortgage payments, that still doesn’t allow for new cars, furniture, eating out, Starbucks, etc. The consumer is toast. Also, who can afford to buy theses house if they have to sell for any reason?
They don’t care. They just want to be seen doing ’something’. It’s not like they are spending their money to do bailouts; they just hike your taxes and make you pay for it.
Can’t get any money out of you if you don’t have any. Pray for a slow motion collapse so people can get accustomed to no money.
Can’t tax you if you do not have anything to tax….or will debt slavery and debtors prison make a comeback?
This system is collapsing faster than I thought.
Soviet Union Collapse 1987-91
United States Collapse 2006-9??
I knew a guy that got hounded for 20 years by the IRS . They garnished a certain portion of his paycheck . The real kicker is that the reason this guy had a tax liability is because his ex-wife and his accountant took off after stealing money from him and not paying the taxes .He couldn’t even find these people that betrayed him to take them to court .
After about 20 years of paying on the IRS debt ,he had a small amount owing and the IRS gave him a break and waved the remaining balance .
Gee, aint the IRS generous? If I were him, I’d have used a skip trace. You can find nearly anyone, anywhere. i doubt they were so 007 good that they completely fell off the grid.
‘It’s unfortunate that someone earning a decent living finds herself
in this situation. It’s not a fun thing.’”
I just spent 4 years working 2 jobs through college to graduate and get a job that puts my household income in the six figures. The nicest we can afford is a tiny, poorly built box that looks like a toolshed.
It’s unfortunate that while earning a decent living, I find myself in this situation. It’s not a fun thing.
“I read the queen mother bubble blog regularly, but it’s one-sided and rarely mentions Utah’s market.” — SLC Resistance, aka Kirsten J., 6/21/07
That’s because Sugarhouse is different, honey.
Luv,
Jen
I’ve been keeping my eye on Celebration FL for about the last 3 years, ever since prices more than doubled. Here’s listings from there with the original sale price
616 Wisteria lane asking(short sale from bank) $369,900 for 2056sf
sold 8/06 for $600,000
174 Longview asking $389,000 for 1979sf
sold 2/99 $197,900
170 Longview asking $336,000 for 1648 sf
sold 2004 $335,000
This town over doubled in 2 years. The number of listings jumped by 100 early in the spring from last fall, but now has stayed around 450 for the last 4 months or so. It certainly looks like the prices are cracking though. Original prices were about $139 a sq. foot. Then they jumped to about $350-400 sq ft and now these just popped up at about $190-202 sq ft. Does anyone know how Celebration (in the Orlando area) market is doing?
Isn’t Wisteria Lane on “Desperate Housewives”?
Yep, and shouldn’t we all strive for that over-consumerism, nobody actually has a real job, lifestyle?
Yes Wisteria Lane is on Desperate Housewives. Maybe they can get more money for it because of the name. But it’s being short saled so someone is desperate.
Stark said. ‘I really feel good. If I had a little money, I’d go out and celebrate.’
this in a nutshell is the crux of the matter. far too many people as soon as they get a few bucks in their sweaty mitts itch to get rid of them asap.
because they deserve it? oh like you wouldn’t believe.
You got it. I know someone whose wife ran them into debt. She was dying of cancer and took out all kinds of credit cards and took them to the max. He was working and living during the week in a city 3 hours away. Just luckily she had signed the deed to the house over to him because of the situation. He wasn’t on the cc, so he wasn’t liable. The thing is he has no idea what she even spent the money on, because there’s nothing at the house that’s any different. She had one daughter still in college, so that goes to show you how much she cared about ruining all their lives. This is a very “me” society.
Our oldest daughter bought her grandfather’s house after he died last year. She was 23 with almost no savings except her 401K.We helped her with closing costs. The house is around 70 years old and will need a new roof in a few years. $70,000 for the house, fixed loan with payments around $620. Some months are tough for her, but she always pay more than the fixed payment. We’re very proud of her. She’s an assistant manager at Burger King, so she isn’t raking in the big bucks.