Continuing A Summertime Slump
The Orlando Sentinel reports from Florida. “A record 26,313 homes and condos were listed for sale last month just in the core Orlando market, up another 295 listings from the month before, according to records kept by the Orlando Regional Realtor Association. And thousands more are on the market as for-sale-by-owner properties. Only 1,343 homes and condos sold during August in the core market, a decrease of 40.3 percent from a year ago”
“For homeowners such as Benjaimal Sukhram, the softness of the once-hot Central Florida market continues to astonish and dismay.”
“‘I’m waiting and waiting, and it’s frustrating,’ he said. Sukhram’s home-for-sale listing recently expired after six months. Not one person came to see his Lake County house during that 180 days, much less make an offer to buy it.”
“Although the local median price is still roughly double what it was in 2001, the pace of existing-home sales so far this year has slipped back to levels last seen seven years ago, and the current slowdown is beginning to more closely resemble the historic boom in its potential to be a historic bust.”
“Sukhram brought his wife and children to the Orlando area two years ago and bought a home in south Lake County for $212,000. A little more than six months ago, Sukhram listed his home with a real-estate agency for $348,000. He held firm to that price for the first six months, even though his agent brought no one around to look at the house.”
“‘He said he didn’t get any calls,’ Sukhram said. So he agreed to cut his asking price to $340,000 when he signed with said Robert G. McAdams, a real-estate agent in Clermont, though he said Monday that he’s not willing to negotiate further cuts.”
“Sukhram said homes in the Orlando area already are priced too low compared with areas of the country such as New York, where a relative of his recently sold a house for more than $500,000. That tells him, he said, that he should hold firm.”
“He said he has not made any improvements to the property to raise its value during the two years he has lived there, but he needs the $128,000 profit, minus his agent’s commission, to be able to afford the kind of home and large yard that he really wants.”
“‘I would not sell it for less than $340,000. That’s a fair price for me,’ Sukhram said.”
The Times Online on Florida. “Until the housing slump hit two years ago, the worst thing that Floridians feared was the hurricane season. Now, they are in the middle of a different type of storm. In some areas of Florida, real estate prices have fallen by as much as 40 per cent since the height of the property boom in 2005.”
“Kay Patel moved to Celebration, the Disney town in Florida, two years ago and set up a laundry business. With soaring insurance costs and property taxes, as well as the slide in real estate prices, Ms Patel told The Times that she was going to have to put her house on the market soon.”
“She is planning to advertise her four-bedroom, three-bathroom home with a pool at about $535,000, but is concerned that should she fail to get less than $485,000 for it, she will be in the territory of negative equity. ‘We hear that Florida is heading for a two-year recession, and there is no way I can sit that out,’ Ms Patel said.”
“Craig Studnicky, a property broker, said: ‘We are having to cope with five or six years of oversupply. Right now, the market is a Mexican stand-off. There are buyers out there, but no one wants to drop their prices. The market is at a complete standstill.’”
“He said that in some of the more depressed areas of southern Florida, property was selling in 2005 for about $250 per square foot. That has fallen to between $150 and $200.”
The Sun Sentinel from Florida. “The dramatic collapse of the nation’s mortgage markets has hit home in South Florida, with almost 800 people losing their jobs in recent months as lenders slash operations.”
“‘The layoffs have impacted an industry that expanded like wildfire in recent years,’ said Alex Garcia, VP of 1st Interstate Mortgage in Delray Beach.”
“Sergio Grady is trying to refinance his Hollywood house. But his mortgage broker told him one application with a potential lender hit a snag because Grady is a telephone operator for a Fort Lauderdale hotel, not a higher-paying concierge.”
“He said, ‘Well, we’re going to have to go somewhere else,’ Grady said. ‘The bank is asking for me to show more money.’”
“Peggy Richardson, HomeBanc’s director of marketing in South Florida for two years, was one of those who lost her job. ‘It was always considered a high-value, ethical company,’ she said. ‘But we were let go without getting paid for our accrued vacation time or any severance. We were left with nothing.’”
“Like other former colleagues, Peggy Richardson is trying to find work in a different line of business. ‘Most everyone is looking outside, considering the state of the mortgage industry right now,’ she said.”
“Despite the credit crunch and the trouble it’s causing, the mortgage industry ultimately will benefit from the shakeout, said Louis Spagnuolo, VP of mortgage banking for WCS Lending in Boca Raton.”
“Spagnuolo said he’s glad to see the demise of lenders who pushed risky loans on clients who couldn’t afford them, which helped fuel the housing boom in the first place.”
“‘In the long-term, I really think this will be better for the consumer,’ he said. ‘We’re going to have more professionalism. I think it’s going to elevate the standards of the whole industry.’”
From Florida Today. “Compared with Florida’s other metropolitan areas, Brevard County is a good bargain when it comes to renting an apartment, a new report shows. Both apartment rents and occupancy levels are down locally from a year ago, according to a study.”
“Lisa Davidson, a Via Tuscany leasing agent, said she has seen a change in the complex’s clientele in past year or so, with the downturn in the housing market. Before, Via Tuscany had more renters who were waiting for their homes to be built.”
“Now, the complex doesn’t see as many of them, and instead is seeing more tenants who are renting while trying to sell their homes, and even some whose homes may be in foreclosure, Davidson said.”
“The pace of new housing construction of all kinds on the Space Coast is continuing at a relatively slow pace, according to the latest permit statistics from the Home Builders & Contractors Association of Brevard. ‘Builders are really suffering,’ said Franck Kaiser, the association’s CEO. ‘They’ve laid off as many people as they can, and some have gone out of business.’”
The Post & Courier from South Carolina. “Home sales in the three-county region declined 15 percent in August compared to the same month last year, extending the residential real estate slowdown that began to take hold about 18 months ago.”
“After a long run-up, the local housing market peaked in early 2006, following national trends. Since then, residential investors have all but headed for the exits, while mortgage lenders have started tightening their credit standards for most borrowers.”
“As of Monday, there were 10,893 homes offered for sale through the association’s MLS.”
“‘There’s an oversupply right now, and it’s a buyer’s market,’ said Everett Presson, an agent with the region’s biggest residential firm. Anyone considering a house purchase ’should be shopping around,’ he suggested.”
The Charlotte Observer from North Carolina. “Area real estate agents concede that…things have changed a bit. Even borrowers with good credit need to present more documentation proving they can make payments, real estate agents say, while good homes may sit on the market longer than expected, and sell at a bit of a lower price.”
“‘Now we’re starting to feel the brunt of it,’ said Raine Spivey, broker/Realtor in Ballantyne. ‘It’s going to really show you who’s serious about buying.’”
“And prospective homebuyers looking to move to the Ballantyne area from other cities in slow-selling markets, like Florida or the Northeast, are having a harder time selling their homes to get here, real estate agents say.”
“Home sales in the Charlotte region were down last month, continuing a summertime slump of double-digit declines.”
“Charlotte-area real estate agent Lisa Hines, in the business five years, said the housing market malaise has cut her income by about 40 percent. She said once-happy agents now talk about getting out of the business.”
“‘The mortgage companies are the problem,’ she said of toughening lending standards. ‘(The type of) people who got loans last year can’t get them this year.’”
“Local agents also blame soft markets elsewhere, saying some transplants can’t buy here until they sell homes in other slumping markets, such as in Florida, California and the Midwest. So they rent and wait.”
“‘The mortgage companies are the problem,’ she said of toughening lending standards. ‘(The type of) people who got loans last year can’t get them this year.’”
It’s all the mortgage companies’ fault that strawberry pickers earning $20,000 a year no longer qualify to borrow $700,000 to buy a nice Central Valley McMansion!
These people care less about their customers and only about their commissions. Lending standards are there for a reason. They protect all parties involved.
I think there is an opportunity for a mortgage company to make money
in this environment if they only seek out the most qualified borrowers with at least 20% down, full docs etc. The problem with all these buffoons is that they always go with the crowd; when everyone was doing subprime, they also did the same thing. Now everyone tightens up and guess what, they also tighten up, ignoring the people who can really afford the mortgage. The smart money always bet against the crowd.
“I think there is an opportunity for a mortgage company to make money in this envioronment if they only seek out the most qualified borrowers with at least 20% down, full docs etc.”
The problem is the 20% could easily go to zero in this falling knife market environment thus imposing a risk that this “most qualified buyer” will end up being a FB and will walk away from the house, leaving the lender stuck.
Part of this environment is excessive housing prices, meaning the number of “most qualified” borrowers (20%, full docs, etc.) is not nearly a match for the number of units on sale. If the lenders don’t get stuck, the current mortgage holders will be stuck with the inevitable loss either through default or through slashing the sale prices. I see few such opportunities for mortgage companies now.
“‘The mortgage companies are the problem,”
I thought the media was the problem…
BTW, think what the unemployment rate would be with all the Realtwhores on the roles…They may be technically ‘employed’ as their license is hanging somewhere but they’re not making any money.
“Sukhram said homes in the Orlando area already are priced too low compared with areas of the country such as New York, where a relative of his recently sold a house for more than $500,000. That tells him, he said, that he should hold firm.”
This guy is a moron. There is no more connection between Orlando and New York than with North Dakota. They are two completely different markets. He’ll still own his house six months from now if he doesn’t wake up to reality!
Great post, Ben. This Suhkram dolt is a real winner. So houses in NY sell for more than those in Orlando, and therefore, Orlando RE is mispriced and should sell for more. 180 days with no lookers, so he’s holding firm on his crazy price, demanding a 130k profit on his unimproved POS because he deserves a bigger house and someone else should pay for it.
It isn’t just market capitalism that eludes this guy…reality has passed him by. Is there some reaason why people like this are allowed to breed?
I think there needs to be a new name invented for this. I volunteer.
ENTITLEMENTISM: a form of economic organization arising in the late Twentieth Century in which profits and ownership are capitalized, losses and debts are socialized. Under entitlementism, prices are not determined by the intersection of supply and demand curves, as the result of bargaining between willing buyers and willing sellers. Instead, prices are determined by what “ought” to be paid.
Not bad.
“I think there needs to be a new name invented for this.” Let’s just call it the “Suhkram Syndrome” ahead of the shrink who so names it after Mr. Suhkram spends $100K in therapy trying to figure out what went wrong.
I love it….great posts, guys.
We could call it the “China Syndrome” from the movie when the rightful owners of this toxic waste come to collect their RENT
Hang in there Suhkrum…you have those all those Buyers by the short hairs buddy
As in Suck Ram
Somebody forgot to tell him about “location, location, location” and how it relates to Real Estate.
Especially in Lake County!
Here in Cental Florida Marion County, morrons like Suhkram seem to be about 90% of the sellers today. Every house I know ( for sale or rent )in my neighborhood is owned by someone from New York.
If You look on the MLS , the asking price spreads for lots in the same neighborhoods are ” simply astonishing”.
I guess many of the out of state investors don’t read the news or have a clue about the local market or just think if they wish hard enough, because some fool overpaid before they’ll be able to find someone who will pick their lot and pay 90k when there are 400 other lots for sale 20k.
I know some people are Dillusional, but why do they ( RE PROs)even take these listings?
Did you guys read the article? He works at Walmart! That’s probably the only employer around there. And he has four kids! Ben, you left out the best parts! And he’s asking $175/sq ft. for that POS. WTF alternate universe are we living in when a fricking Walmart employee with four kids pays $212K for a house, much less $340K? I wouldn’t be so sure that this guy isn’t going down hard. Wait till the recession hits Walmart.
I see lot of people around Tampa losing their jobs. Many in the service sector are stuggling because things are slow. About the only thing up is lawsuits and lawyers. I see the cops out writing tickets like crazy.
Tell me about it–I practice criminal defense.
No wonder we don’t see you around that much anymore…
I can testify. Since I have some clients in Florida, I was forced to take the bar exam there in July. You Florida residents will take joy that another 2500 lawyers that took the exam. Assuming that 80% pass, another 2000 lawyers to advertise on television, over and above the 80,000 your state already has….
Did you guys read the article? He works at Walmart! That’s probably the only employer around there.
Why am I having visions of Disneyworld rubberheads living in Orlando McMansions?
The guy is delusional, but it depends on what he does working at Walmart. My nephew is a district manager over 29 stores and brings in 150k. A mere assistant manager for one store starts out at 43K and managers of 1 store 65k.
However that said, at one time prices in FL and in Ohio were the same per square foot before the bubble. Now our prices are 80-100sf and FL’s are 175-400sf. All in 4 years.
Since he has zero grasp of market economics, I hope for Walmart’s sake he ain’t a manager. Since he can’t connect the dots, I doubt he could stock the shelves properly. Maybe he washes the windows…
The key is in his reason for moving. It wasn’t because Walmart transferred him. He moved because “he tired of the snow and ice.” It’s possible Walmart was benevolent and allowed a long-term employee to transfer, but when people transfer from New York to Florida, it usually isn’t for a promotion or a pay raise — just the opposite — you want more money, you transfer TO New York.
He picked his poison. Now he’s choking on it. Surprise, surprise.
He needs an interview again in about 6 months…
LMAO!!! You can’t make this stuff up.
“‘I would not sell it for less than $340,000. That’s a fair price for me,’ Sukhram said.”
fast forward 2011
Press…..”Mr Sunkram is entered in the Genis record book for the longest time on the market. Over 3700 agents have tried to sell his house to no avail. Sunkram now wants 6 million for it……claiming the bubble never ended in 2006, and he is entitled his share.
So many kinds of stupid concentrated in one person. Remarkable.
Not a brain storm. A mental perfect storm.
Wow, that’s hilarious. He bought at the peak (”Sukhram brought his wife and children to the Orlando area two years ago“), and now expects well over 50% appreciation (212,000 to 340,000) in two years in a falling market!
No worries, Mr. Suhkram will get what he so richly deserves when he holds on to the place for long enough for it to be worth $125,000 (which may be very soon) and realizes he will be stuck with it (or with a foreclosure) for 10+ years.
What’s odd is that Realtors are still agreeing to list this place for him - why on earth would someone spend money listing or advertising a place priced so far from reality?
He bought at the peak (”Sukhram brought his wife and children to the Orlando area two years ago“), and now expects well over 50% appreciation (212,000 to 340,000) in two years in a falling market!
If he bought at peak then the place is probably worth $106k with a 50% cut.
Speaking of agents listing and advertising for unreasonable sellers, why would some agent pay money out of his pocket for landscaping on a house that is way overpriced. I wonder if he’d come do mine in Ohio. I could use some new landscaping.
True… Heck, if we over-correct as often happens, he could end up at five figures!
Of course, maybe that assumes the Fed decides stagflation is preferable to deflation…
Er, other way around… long day, now confusing my forecasts of doom…
“Sukhram brought his wife and children to the Orlando area two years ago and bought a home in south Lake County for $212,000. A little more than six months ago, Sukhram listed his home with a real-estate agency for $348,000. He held firm to that price for the first six months, even though his agent brought no one around to look at the house.”
If he bought 2 years ago, he bought at the peak. Sorry Suhki, but your home is worth less than you paid. When did South Lake County become “Orlando”?. It’s relatively close, approx 20 miles from the center of town, it’s still a commute in heavy traffic. I don’t consider S. Lake Cty to be Orlando and I live here.
And than he compares it to New York prices. What a Idiot. I bet he did the happy dance when he paid $212,000 because that was below New York prices. He was a smug RE genius! Now that HE’S selling, we should be at New York prices.
We’re still in the “Denial” stage. This stage has lasted far longer than I thought. We’re way past when I thought desperation would kick in. I guess it gives us something to look forward to
I love that comparison to NY prices. Maybe he should compare to prices in MI, IN, or OH. He’d be shocked to see his POS valued at about 80K.
Actually, he sounds like he’s whistling past a graveyard in order to keep from panic. That comes in six months, I guess.
“Despite the credit crunch and the trouble it’s causing, the mortgage industry ultimately will benefit from the shakeout, said Louis Spagnuolo, VP of mortgage banking for WCS Lending in Boca Raton.”
U.S. mortgage companies face sharp job cuts
Bloomberg News
Published: September 10, 2007
NEW YORK: The worst U.S. housing slump in 16 years may lead mortgage companies to eliminate almost 100,000 jobs this year, more than double the number already cut since January.
As many as 20 percent of U.S. real estate loan officers and mortgage brokers will be fired, according to Josh Rosner, a managing director at Graham Fisher & Co., an investment research firm in New York.
That is in addition to the 10 percent reduction from December to July that thinned their ranks to 450,000, as many investors stopped buying mortgages and lenders curtailed financing to avoid rising subprime defaults.
“Originations are going to decline dramatically,” Rosner said. “We are just at the front end of seeing the large banks and investment banks start to cut their capacity.”
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/10/business/prime.php
To add insult to injury, I’d imagine that many of the ones about to lose their jobs were speculators in the market. How could they not see the easy riches and participate?
“many of the ones about to lose their jobs were speculators in the market”
These are the quintessential Fools of Randomness.
Chip;
I see that everyday. Unbelievable. Thats what you get when you start believing your own BS
“100,000 jobs this year”. And no one is out there estimating how many ancillary jobs are being lost per this 100,000. I would estimate it has to be a minimum of 3 but probably more like 5.
There historically has been a 1m+ drop in nonfarm payrolls in the wake of a U.S. recession (not to predict there will be one!).
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
A lawyer I share office space with forms corporations for clients. Last week he had two guys who came in looking to start an LLC. Ok, that’s fine. But here was the catch: they wanted the LLC because they were starting a mortgage business. He looked at the two guys and actually asked them if they are joking. No, they weren’t! They paid their $550 and that was that.
Then, a couple of days after the mortgage gurus, one of his clients called and said she was in extreme financial difficulty. My office partner is also a CPA and he was her accountant (well, probably not anymore…read on). She was a very productive loan officer and during the boom years she was making, on average, $50,000 a month. But that all ended with the flip of a switch about a month ago. She’s buried under three one million dollar spec houses, she has no cash (even after having an annual income that reached $850,000) and she was desperate to know what she could do. He flatly said he doesn’t do bankruptcy. Then he asked if she refinanced any of the properties she wants to get rid of. After a pause, he then dropped the A-bomb on her by telling her that her loans were probably recourse loans since she had refinanced.
Later in that phone conversation, that same chick told him about other loan officers who lost up to $200,000 in the Magnus bank. I guess loan officers were holding commissions in the bank so as not to incur the taxes. One loan officer actually had $200,000 in the Magnus bank and now it’s totally gone. The chick I speak of “only” had $39,000 in that same bank so, in her own words, “she was lucky.”
frcp, you touched on the tax thing. Think about the Realtors/Mortgage Brokers/ etc who made big bucks in 05 and 06 and did not put away enough for taxes.
Most of these people are paid on commission and they are contract labor, so the company is not required to withold Income Tax, FICA, etc. Typically, they’re spending like drunken sailors, figuring that they will pay 06 taxes with 07 revenue. OOP’s! No 07 revenue. The IRS ain’t going away.
frcp, what a beautiful recounting, in a schadenfeude kind of way. Huge six figure incomes, and these people end up facing bankruptcy! Ouch! Even worse (for her) is the recourse character of a refinance loan. Gosh, I bet that part wasn’t even considered when she refinanced.
“she has no cash (even after having an annual income that reached $850,000)”
WTF. 3 spec houses, at 1mil each, with I’m guessing with some sort of financing, a mere 39k bank loss and she ain’t got a dime after bringing in 50k a month? I don’t get it–where did she spend it? If it was blow, her face would have fallen off by now.
So this Sukhram fellow fellow bought near the height of the bubble, made zero improvements but hiked the price 50% because he wanted to get rich quickly and easily, and now he is astonished that nobody wants to buy the place at his price at a time when the housing market is disappearing into a sinkhole. Blinded by greed.
NR
This guy Sukhram represents everything that is wrong with America. He deserves everything that is coming his way.
Give the guy a break, he’s just using those creative “mark to model” financial innovations that are all the rage lately.
Actually, give him more than a break… this man has what it takes to land an eight figure job with a hedge fund! Hopefully he can start in time to collect his Christmas bonus. Is Bear Stearns hiring?
HE SOUNDS LIKE A NUTHER FRIGGIN RAGHEAD FROM INDIA GIVING US THE MODERN DAY VERSION OF KARMA
He is a living example of why native Floridians hate New Yorkers.
He is a living example of why native Floridians hate New Yorkers.
You got that right. Used to live in FL back in my military days and the number one bumper sticker then (92) was “we don’t care how you did it up north!” Can only image its worse now.
I think they told that to Mr Lincoln once and, well you know that happened.
Yes, but the story isn’t over yet….
So people here in Florida are still trying to flip properties for outlandish profits. This poor guy in Orlando must be delusional comparing local property values to those in New York. One of the oddest things about this bubble is that people forgot location, location, location, and priced dumps in the middle of nowhere on in the worst parts of towns as if they were in the nicest neighborhoods. Why not look at the price of houses in Hawaii and price shacks in Mississippi to match?
It is increasingly looking like so many of these yeahoo’s will try to hold out untill the truth can no longer, in any way shape or form, be denied. Unfortunately when these ’smart investers” who think that Orlando Fl. property (HAHAHAHA) should comand NY prices come to terms with reality, reality is going to put one serious hurting down on them. The group think will eventually change and if the up side of this thing is any indication of things to come, they will all look to get out at the same time. So they will compete with the same fools to sell as those they bid against to buy. This is the ultimate irony!
Just in case the word is not out…
Orlando is not located by the water, is in the middle of no where, hot and humid, and full of tourists…just like Hell.
“It is increasingly looking like so many of these yeahoo’s will try to hold out untill the truth can no longer, in any way shape or form, be denied”.
Mr. Sukhram, being dragged away City Marshals, by the legs, in a straight jacket, shortly after his house is auctioned off at $98,000: “But look at the sunken living room! Just like my uncle’s house in New York! I told you TREE-FORTY and not a penny leeeeesssssss!!!!
with so many people in FL still thinking like Mr. Sukrham i am beginning to think we are not even in the second inning of this thing.
heck it’s more like i’m just shaking it off in the men’s room before i buy a couple of millers to sit down to watch batting practice.
man it’s gonna be a two hour rain delay with extra innings and i’m gonna be hammered before this thing is over.
Love the analogy!
No extra innings, just some really loooong halves, with one side putting alot of men on. I mean the first inning isn’t even over and the NAR has already relieved their pitcher.
I disagree. This guy is a delusional exception. If the “game” started in 3Q05 then we’ve just completed the fourth inning. However, I define the “game” as being over when prices stop dropping and volume starts to pick up. If you define it as when prices are back to 2005 levels, then it’s only the bottom of the first.
I agree. 2005 levels were the peak. Prices and sales volume from here on out should be compared on a monthly basis to 2005 prices and sales volume. An August 2007 price compared to August 2006 is down but in reality the 2006 price was down from the 2005 YOY.
The game will be over when prices stop dropping and volume picks up. Exactly when is always the question. I’m surprised it lasted this long.
I’m even more surprised that there still are idiots like Sukrham still spout there unsubstaniated BS. Further, he is the rule, not the exception.
The next phase of this is exceptance buy the Sellers. The Realtors are getting the picture, or at least are now speaking openly about what most of them thought but preached NAR’s BS. Realtors are dropping like flies, mostly the newbies who are now going back to Walmart to work with Sukrham, leaving the more experienced.
As to what inning or quarter, who knows. The basic benchmark is when prices stop falling and volume begins to pick up. Give it 6 months before you declare it over.
lol
Orlando is not located by the water, is in the middle of no where, hot and humid, and full of tourists…just like Hell.
(laugh)
That about sums it up.
don’t forget the soul-destroying traffic because of the tourists and shit roads, and road construction trying to keep up with the influx.
I lived in Orlando for for 3 years and have to disagree. Stay away from I-drive and 5 miles away from DisneyWorld at all times and Orlando is just fine.
I presume by “southern Lake County” that he bought in Clermont. The median family income there is under $50,000 and the town, at least when I last visited pre-boom, is miles from any decent paying job (I recall seeing a sign in front of Lake-Sumter Community College saying “welcome student’s” or some similarly amusing misuse of the possessive). It could be considered an “exurb” of Orlando if you really like driving. I doubt the house is, or ever will be, worth what he paid for it.
Exactly….Clermont is nothing but a wanna-be exurb.
As one of the few places in central FL with rolling hills, Clermont has turned into a perfect example of the great Florida dichotomy. Hills are covered with stucco shit boxes and yuppie residents go to some of the newer restraurants and the wineries (funny that when I vistied I didn’t see a whole lot of muscodine wine?) and drive into Orlando for jobs. Meanwhile, the locals continue to enjoy a good dinner at the Sonny’s BBQ and live in trailers surrounded by barking dogs.
Well, it’s not like they’re making any more swampland.
This guy is from NY!!! And is a prime example of all that is wrong with the concept (and none of the good) with the phrase “he’s from NY”. Everything is based on NY since the world revolves around NY and there is no world outside of NY. That type of attitude.
Even though he left. If you wanted to live in an area where housing was ALWAYS expensive, why did you leave NY?
Cause every one was moving from NY to FL and making a killing flipping houses, don’t you remember?
‘Cause he couldn’t afford it working at Walmart.
Sukhram said homes in the Orlando area already are priced too low compared with areas of the country such as New York, where a relative of his recently sold a house for more than $500,000. That tells him, he said, that he should hold firm.”
“He said he has not made any improvements to the property to raise its value during the two years he has lived there, but he needs the $128,000 profit, minus his agent’s commission, to be able to afford the kind of home and large yard that he really wants.”
“‘I would not sell it for less than $340,000. That’s a fair price for me,’ Sukhram said.”
LMAOROF!
“…not sell it for less than $340,000…”
a fair price, eh..
sounds too freakin stupid to be a genuine sentiment.. my guess is he’s borrowed and is in it for $320K or so..
According to the Lake County Court Clerk website, Mr. Sukhram lives at 668 Winding Lake Drive in Clarmont. He took out an option ARM for $185k in August 2006 that had a 1% teaser for the first 3 months, and started adjusting immediately after that. He doesn’t actually have to pay the full interest & principal until Nov 2011. I wonder if his walmart job will give him that luxury…
http://lakecountyclerk.org/wb_or1/details.asp?doc_id=3988500&file_num=2006137020&doc_status=V
Nice find!
So it went from 1% to 8.063% after three months. Actually, looking at the docos, he might not have even had that much time:
31 Aug 2006 Sign docos
01 Oct 2006 Floats to 8.036%
Then adjust monthly, and making it more painful is that has a pretty high margin of 3.50% over the 12-month AMT. (Usually it’s 2% or 2.5% for decent borrowers.)
Then the fun part. His payments have floating caps — he can get slammed right into negative amortization on this thing, depending on what he’s actually paying per month. Interest will accrue, but his payment actually only changes once a year, with a provision that it will only go up 7.5% per year for the first five years!
My rough calculations indicate that he should owe roughly $210,000 on the house as of this month (yes, working backwards paying only $600-$800 per month as his payment only increases 7.5% per year). By 2011 when it really adjusts, he’ll go to $1882. That no doubt seems a long way off to him, hence his bravado, though if he is good at math he will see that he’ll hit the 125% finance cap a year sooner than that, and pain will actually begin then.
Unfortunately for the lender, the value/price of that house is NOT going up; only Mr. Sukhram’s debt is going up. Nice way to collateralize that loan, Mr. Banker.
(Seems my reply got lost a while back… apologies is this is a repeat)
Nice find!
So it went from 1% to 8.063% after three months. Actually, looking at the docos, he might not have even had that much time:
31 Aug 2006 Sign docos
01 Oct 2006 Floats to 8.036%
Then adjust monthly, and making it more painful is that has a pretty high margin of 3.50% over the 12-month AMT. (Usually it’s 2% or 2.5% for decent borrowers.)
Then the fun part. His payments have floating caps — he can get slammed right into negative amortization on this thing, depending on what he’s actually paying per month. Interest will accrue, but his payment actually only changes once a year, with a provision that it will only go up 7.5% per year for the first five years!
My rough calculations indicate that he should owe roughly $210,000 on the house as of this month (yes, working backwards paying only $600-$800 per month as his payment only increases 7.5% per year). By 2011 when it really adjusts, he’ll go to $1882. That no doubt seems a long way off to him, hence his bravado, though if he is good at math he will see that he’ll hit the 125% finance cap a year sooner than that, and pain will actually begin then.
Unfortunately for the lender, the value/price of that house is NOT going up; only Mr. Sukhram’s debt is going up. Nice way to collateralize that loan, Mr. Banker.
Arrghhh! Not taking this comment, will take others. Maybe it was too long on detail.
Short version: Only 1 month teaser (1 month, 2 days)
He will hit the 125% finance cap a year earlier than he thinks.
Then his payment will way more than double.
But in the meantime, his low payment (and huge negative amortization) makes him feel comfortable and cocky.
test
According to a zillow like service I subscribe to, his home is worth $249,000. He’s right, he should hold firm. Maybe in another 10 years he’ll get his money.
“Sukhram said homes in the Orlando area already are priced too low compared with areas of the country such as New York, where a relative of his recently sold a house for more than $500,000. That tells him, he said, that he should hold firm.”
“He said he has not made any improvements to the property to raise its value during the two years he has lived there, but he needs the $128,000 profit, minus his agent’s commission, to be able to afford the kind of home and large yard that he really wants.”
Tell you what Sukhram, I’ve got a deal for you. I’ll give you $500K for yours if you give me $2 million for mine…
…but we should have done this deal a few months ago… may be difficult now!
Keyword here is “wants”.
Hey Sukhram, get a clue.
“Craig Studnicky, a property broker, said: ‘We are having to cope with five or six years of oversupply. Right now, the market is a Mexican stand-off. There are buyers out there, but no one wants to drop their prices. The market is at a complete standstill.’”
A Mexican Stand-off usually involves an armed truel, weapons pointed @ one another…
We have progressed from Duck Duck Goose, however~
A visual of said truel…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_klMKjJ6vs
“Sukhram brought his wife and children to the Orlando area two years ago and bought a home in south Lake County for $212,000. A little more than six months ago, Sukhram listed his home with a real-estate agency for $348,000. He held firm to that price for the first six months, even though his agent brought no one around to look at the house.”
greedy, greedy bastard. No improvement was made yet he wants $130,000 in profits in just 2 years. I’m sorry, what’s the median income in central FL again? $38,000?
When the Euro buys 15 dollars in a few years, he may just get $348,000 for his home. Of course he’ll be paying $19 a gallon for gas, $15 a gallon for milk, and the penny, nickel and dime will be withdrawn from the currency supply as the $500, $1000 and $5000 bills become more common, but hey, he’ll get what he’s asking for.
–
The slump usually comes in late fall. Nov-Feb are the slow months.
Jas
Please tell me this dolt Suhkram has an ARM…yeah, sucker, you just keep waiting til you get what you want…a big fat reset and a POS you can’t unload at any price.
See above, he has an option ARM for $185k. I checked a zillow like service, his home is worth $249k. If normal 5% appreciation occurs, he will hit $340k in 7 years. That assumes that home prices stabilize. At best, home prices bottom out in 2009, maybe longer in a place like Orlando.
Not only an ARM, a neg-amortization option-pay ARM! (See above if my othe comments ever make it in.. they might not). But he’s not really hosed till 2010 when he hits the 125% finance level.
NoVa and Subsonic,
you have made my evening. Good ol’ Suhkram showing real financial acumen, buying in some trailer park outpost for top dollar, and now,oh joy,proud owner of a neg-am option-pay ARM.
Any way to find out if this lower life form also HELOCed the joint? Then my happiness would be complete.
Suhkram is even dumber than the Mexican strawberry pickers with their 750k McMansion. At least it was made clear to the strawberry pickers that they were done…this guy, nothing but cement between his ears.
The Orlando article was so flat out hilarious I had to go check the link for reader comments. Here’s my favorite….
“When he picked up Sukhram’s listing Monday, for example, he had a lawn-care company mow the grass, trim the palm trees and hedges and put down fresh mulch. Then he snapped a new, better picture for the Realtors’ Multiple Listing Service.”
He better throw a full-time hooker in the bushes if he wants to sell the house for that price.
Hope people like Sukhram choke on his lost in the long run - most people want a home to live in - he obviously wants it only to scam someone which is what many have been doing with this ponzi home buy and resale.
What a incredible human being and there are so many like that out there now who hope to ’screw’ the next guy -
The tax laws, greenspin, and others created this mess - the every two year flip comes from the change in capital gains law and the flip was invented and refined with low interest rates and further defined with no money down and money back at closing - people couldn’t win this big in vegas - then it stopped and they are all blaming the wrong people - it is the feds and greenspin and banks - plain and simple
Agreed. But somehow I come off as a conspiracy nut when I say the same thing….
I think all you who live near Mr. Sukram should make an appointment to see the house and then tell the realtor it’s overpriced by $230k.
Naw, let him hold to his price. If he paid 220k, it’s probably worth around 120k now, and if he keeps holding out, the neighborhood comps will hit 50k before he knows what hit him. NY prices are going down too, that should make him feel better.
The only thing I can’t figure out is Sukhram or the realtor the bigger idiot? Spending money to sell a house that is so overvalued a ten year old could tell you that it can’t sell. Realtors want to be considered professionals, what a joke.
Why did he take the listing? If no one looked at it for 6 months it must be 100k over the market. Sounds like a waste of money on mulch and pictures.
Certain brokers will take the listing especially if they have others in the community that are priced to sell..By taking to buyer to this overpriced house..it make the house $100K less in the community look like an even better deal..
My thoughts exactly!
Ditto. Savvy brokers are refusing overpriced listings, in order to cut out-of-pocket costs that relate to a no-chance-of-commission property. Here’s the clue:
“‘It takes a lot of hard work now,’ said McAdams, who was an independent property investor for about 10 years before he joined Weichert a year ago — just as the market headed south.”
He has been in the business one whole year and had been a kool-aid imbiber big-time before that. McAdams may well have convinced his broker that McAdams was willing to pay all of the marketing costs. “Why not?” the broker will think — “Let him learn the hard way.”
It’s HBB Karma. The realtor listed the Nyborg’s from Glengarry Glen Ross.
Put that coffee down. Coffee is for closers!
“Local agents also blame soft markets elsewhere, saying some transplants can’t buy here until they sell homes in other slumping markets, such as in Florida, California and the Midwest. So they rent and wait.”
The nerve of those out of staters, not buying a house in our neck of the woods, til they sell theirs…
“Sukhram brought his wife and children to the Orlando area two years ago and bought a home in south Lake County for $212,000. A little more than six months ago, Sukhram listed his home with a real-estate agency for $348,000. He held firm to that price for the first six months, even though his agent brought no one around to look at the house.”
“‘He said he didn’t get any calls,’ Sukhram said. So he agreed to cut his asking price to $340,000 when he signed with said Robert G. McAdams, a real-estate agent in Clermont, though he said Monday that he’s not willing to negotiate further cuts.”
“Sukhram said homes in the Orlando area already are priced too low compared with areas of the country such as New York, where a relative of his recently sold a house for more than $500,000. That tells him, he said, that he should hold firm.”
Orlando isn’t exactly the same as NYC. For the record, I don’t think a lot of the houses in NY are worth 500K either. This is the beef I have with many people nowadays; most people, even households that make six digit figures (very small % of the population) don’t have the ability to make the huge payments on these Mcmansion type houses. ALso, given that most people don’t have the intelligence or the discipline to manage their money well, I can’t see how many of the people who bought with weird financing can hold on. While this one apparently didn’t buy with weird financing, the entitlement mentality is equally infantile. I find that this is the same individual who probably screws other people over on their ‘entitlements’ all the time. Circumstances will FORCE him to sell it for a much lower price and all the caterwauling and playing the fiddle won’t stop that.
I found this humorous, the distinction between and betwixt being a telephone operator, vs being a concierge…
“Sergio Grady is trying to refinance his Hollywood house. But his mortgage broker told him one application with a potential lender hit a snag because Grady is a telephone operator for a Fort Lauderdale hotel, not a higher-paying concierge.”
I shudder to think of how much he paid for his house. I’d bet with the reset looming, he’s getting pretty antsy to refinance. What’s he make, like $27K?
What the mortgage broker didn’t say - “Sergio and I claimed he had a better job than he did. The lender had the nerve to actually fact check this, and found that we LIED and turned us down”.
really going out on a limb here
Realtors Predict Drop in 2007 Home Sales AP
that happened in 06 you dopes
If they’re predicting a “drop”, get ready for a “freefall”.
I wonder if David Liareah will tell us what he REALLY thinks now that he doesn’t work for the NAR.
He Lereah did in several interviews where he basically contradicted most of his NAR BS.
I think because of his two idiot books he has had to relocate to a place where people can’t or don’t bother reading. Next door to Sukrham, in “the next New York” S. Lake County would be a good choice. They could sit in the back yard and talk real estate over case of beer.
“Did you read my books?” says Dave.
“I don’t read” says Sukrham. “I don’t have to. I’m from New York and flip real estate.
“Good” says Dave. “Another cold one, Sukie?”
“Charlotte-area real estate agent Lisa Hines, in the business five years, said the housing market malaise has cut her income by about 40 percent. She said once-happy agents now talk about getting out of the business.”
Just NOW thinking about jumping ship?????????? The time to jump was 2005!
Ahhhh, I love the smell of realtwhore desperation this early in the morning!
“Ahhhh, I love the smell of realtwhore desperation this early in the morning!”
It’s the smell of real-estate bubbly yeast!
Yet something else for FBers to loss sleep over:
http://www.suntimes.com/business/savage/549494,CST-FIN-terry10.savagearticle
Very sobering article. Anyone foreclosed on who’s underwater gets taxed on the negative balance by Uncle Sam as income. If the tax laws aren’t changed there’s going to be a sizable segment of the population living in a virtual debtor’s prison for the rest of their lives. This is an aspect of the bubble getting almost no coverage. Are backtaxes wiped off the book when someone declares bankruptcy?
If I’m remembering correctly from accounting last spring, local, state, and federal taxes are still owed after chapter 11 and chapter 7 bankruptcy. last year they were also talking about adding federal student loans to the list, but I don’t know what happened with that.
He said he has not made any improvements to the property to raise its value during the two years he has lived there, but he needs the $128,000 profit, minus his agent’s commission, to be able to afford the kind of home and large yard that he really wants.
Bwaaahahahahahahahahaaa!!!!!!
I want to live in a nice 3-story beachfront.
I will sell you my place for $680k. This will give me the $620k I need to make my move.
Thanks.
I want to buy a Ferrari. I just need someone to buy my Honda for $200,000 so that I have a large enough downpayment to be able to afford it. Any takers?
I want to buy this: http://tinyurl.com/yuzk3m with the Ferrari and some Nordic eye candy. I just need someone to buy lake home in Michigan for 2,000,000 E…
San Jose is so rich we can afford to waste industrial space on car storage for rich guys.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_6859683?nclick_check=1#recent_comm
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All part of a society of Haves and Have-nots. During the depression Silly.con Valley (prospered due to Scam Options for the past dozen years) will turn into a hellhole as the tech stocks go down 80-90% from the current levels and jobs and incomes get destroyed very rapidly.
During 2001-03 Santa Clara County lost more than 20% employment. The Housing Bubble beginning in 2004 saved the area. Employment is still down 10% from 2001 peak and population has grown slightly. It is a very artificial economy based on asset inflation due to bubblenomics.
Jas
Sep 12, 2007
Subprime meltdown finally affects beer drinkers
By The Mogambo Guru
If you are one of the nervous people who have spent a lot of time tracking me down to get information about your investment in the Mogambo Super-Secret Hedge Fund (MS-SHF), you are wasting your time trying to get your money back … or what’s left of your money back … or even finding out if there is even any money to get back.
…
I think that there is a link between this inflationary monetary nonsense and the bad economic news that, as columnist Ernest Hooper reports in the St Petersburg Times, a restaurant owner friend of his is saying that around this part of Florida the usually slow summer business season, “is so bad this year that even beer distributors are noticing a difference”.
There are probably a lot of theories why St Pete customers aren’t going to restaurants to swill beer like they used to, and he cites a marketing director saying that beer sales may be down because “people are consuming at home” because of “declining real estate values and other economic factors”. Hahaha! Gosh! Ya think so? Hahaha!
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/II12Dj01.html
how much does it cost to sniff glue
beer is too high
glue sniffers usually steal the glue.
I’m sure it also has nothing to do with the anti-property smoking bans that are popping up everywhere.
That has nothing to do with it. Smoking bans ruining business are a red herring for those who believe their right to smoke supercedes the majority right to breathe clean air.
Smoking bans ruining business are a red herring for those who believe their right to smoke supercedes the majority right to breathe clean air.
Stay home. A restaurant isn’t public property, it is privately owned. Get off my lawn, and the lawn/tables/bar stools of those who properly own them and can dictate what is allowed and what isn’t.
A lot of drinkers also smoke, so if you ban smoking, those drinkers don’t frequent your business, Fewer customers equals less business. Simple as that. And if the business was marginally profitable, it goes out of business and all you “clean air” types have no place to go either. (and NO, I don’t smoke, never have). That’s what is meant by the attack on smoking/business philosophy, not an attack on your right to clean air. And if you want clean air and I allow smoking in my bar, DON”T COME IN.
I agree with your last statement - as a bar owner you can choose to allow smoking within the framework of the Florida laws. I sometimes visit those places (much to the pain of my lungs) with friends and they seem to be doing well.
Talk to restaurant owners/managers here in FL. There was an impact from the smoking ban for a while, but after people got used to it (and just went outside), others, mainly family types started going out because they wouldn’t have to deal with smoke. In effect, there was better business. Now the places with maringal food and atmosphere - some of them did take a beating, but in the end most of them dropped their food and concentrated on the smoking crowd. I suspect some restaurants cook their books and flout the law; but to blame the shortage on lack of smoking is not true.
And yes, all my smoker friends said “we’ll never go out again, we’re staying at home now”. B.S. They all go out just as much. Still a red-herring issue.
That’s what I meant by “marginal” businesses. They stayed open as a place for smokers to hang out and then came the ban, then marginals closed. The good places stayed open. But I don’t beleive the gov’t should “ban” anything. Smoking now, trans fat next, then what? Books? I just don’t want politicians deciding what is and isn’t “good for me”.
Sadly, most people don’t realize that the current gentle embrace of the nanny state is like the first gentle embrace of a boa constrictor. It gets firmer and firmer until you suffocate and die.
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
NYC nightlife is thriving without smoking, no shortage of those willing to plunk down $350-$1000 for bottle service
Smoking bans aren’t about protecting patrons, or about what you can do on your private property, or about securing the quality of the public air. They are occupational health and safety measures meant to protect workers. Right or wrong, at least attack the actual issue, not a straw man.
And that’s the issue here - everyone says that it’s personal right of the gov’t telling people what to do. I know fervent anti-smokers who voted against the FL ban because of that slant.
I can see health issues in an office, but a BAR? Come on, you go into a smoke filled bar, apply for a job in that smoke filled bar and then complain that O!M!G! Second hand smoke is every where!
That’s like buying a house at the end of a runway and complaining about the noise.
And every time I turn around, Mommy Dearest Gov’t is telling me somethinng else I can’t do. And here’s a piece of trivia for you, Hitler was an anti smoking, vegetarian.
We hear the same stuff every year. In 2005 everyone was home watching hurricanes on TV, and last year no one could afford the gas. Maybe the real issue is that bars have ripped off consumers so much that happy hours are a gimmick and their pricing and atmosphere do not justify the expenditure.
I completely stopped going to the bars in St. Pete, but it has nothing to do with the housing market. Most bars in this area also have crappy TV’s and now that every Tom, Dick, and Jane has an HDTV, maybe people are sitting at home watching football games this year?
Seems to me like bars are one place where inflation has been huge - the price of buying a drink in a bar has gone up by several times since I first started drinking in bars in the late 80s, while the price of store-bought alcohol has risen by far, far less, IMHO.
Here in L.A., in a lot of places it’s now ten dollars for a beer after tax and tip - when you can buy the same beer in a grocery store for $1-2. The fact that a shrinking number of people are willing to pay these prices is unsurprising.
Yip, and another hidden effect is stepped up enforcement of DWI/DUI laws.
Bars are just way too expensive IMO. Nothing more than pissing your money away
More for me!!!!
Question about Texas real estate - how many folks can afford the 2.5%-3% annual property tax on a 400k home (or a 600k home). It seems like over time home prices will be brought back to earth by the high tax burden …
I bought a rental in Fort Worth last year for $147,000. The property tax is $3950 this year or about 3.2% of the assessed value (which is lower than the purchase price, thank god). I can’t imagine paying property taxes on a $500,000 McMansion. You’re looking at a $1200/mo property tax bill for as long as you own your house. My rental was a new house and is rented for $1100/mo! And, no, unlike what the guy that held the seminar to buy in Texas told me, the rental does not have a positive cash flow. I am the Greatest Fool.
Greed is found everywhere. Here we have a case of killing the goose that laid the golden eggs.
Rent: I completely agree with you. I am amazed at amount of TexMextownhouses that go up in inner loop Houston. All seem to be north of $375k and housefootprint is slightly smaller than the entire propery foot print.
You’re kidding me…2,5-3% ?!?
I thought Texas was supposed to be so tax friendly; politicians would get lynched if property taxes were that high in CA or WA. How can retired folks on fixed income afford to keep their houses?
There is no income tax in TX though … (and retired folks do have a hard time). Owning a home in Texas right now does not seem like a sweet deal though. In MA where I used to live income tax was 5.3% and property tax ran ~ 1% or so (plus or minus). (Houses were much more expensive in MA though so the effective non federal tax burden was higher).
Richland County, SC (columbia) raised property taxes by a factor of 3X on non owner occupied and 2x on owner occuppied. Drove up rents and drove owners out into the next county. Tax revenues have fallen and no affordable housing, etc etc and of course politicians are clueless as to the cause.
We are actually closing on a house in Houston this Friday. (I know, we’re idiots, catching a falling knife and all.) We are renting and wanted to continue renting, but we have dogs and couldn’t find a decent dog-friendly house to rent in our area (west houston - husband and sister both walk to work). So we decided to buy. We plan to live here until my stepson goes off to college - 10 years.
by “decent,” I mean in our price range. Houston landlords are a little nuts about their rental prices IMHO.
You guys are NOT going to believe this one…forget the aspirin…I’m getting Valium!
http://tinyurl.com/2fceor
Owners struggle to sell condos as boards impose tough standards
Joe Kollin | CONDOS/HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATIONS
Jane Consiglio has been trying for a year to sell her one-bedroom apartment in section 4 of High Point of Delray Beach.
She finally got an offer from a disabled Vietnam War veteran and his wife, but her condo board turned them down.
“How unfair is this?” Consiglio asked.
Boards statewide have begun toughening their standards because of concerns about applicants’ ability to pay monthly maintenance fees. In the late 1990s and early 2000s, buyers were qualifying for low adjustable-rate mortgages with little or no money down. Unable to pay both their mortgage and association obligations, the new owners ignored their maintenance and special assessment obligations.
Boards were stuck. They couldn’t foreclose because the new owners had no equity. That forced all other owners to pick up the unpaid share of the common expenses, such as water, insurance, pest control, pool maintenance and landscaping.
Consiglio’s buyers qualified for a Veterans Affairs loan and had offered to have their monthly maintenance fees deposited directly into the association’s account.
But her board said the couple had bad credit and defended its decision.
The criteria the board applied “is all detailed in our condo [documents] and it was handled according to the [documents]. That’s all I can tell you,” said the association president, Richard W. Tenney.
Boards have almost unlimited power to reject buyers and renters as long as their governing documents allow it and no illegal discrimination is involved, according to Randall K. Roger, whose Boca Raton-based law firm represents 600 associations in South Florida. State law recognizes the right of associations to determine who can buy and rent but doesn’t set standards for boards to follow.
(Cont’d)
OK…the market is tanking and the Condo boards are thumbing noses?
I’d hold immediate elections and find new board members!!! Mind numbing.
Agreed. There will be lot of people with bad credit when this is all over. I can see rich people buying these condos and letting section 8’s move in and tear up the place.
I wonder if forcing the prooperty into foreclosure gets them paid since the bank owne rwill make the mandated payments? I would assume once a bank forecloses they become responsible for tax and association dues, so banks may be left holding these properties for a very long time while being forced to make payments to the associations. Correct me if I am wrong here.
Those payments will accrues until the property is sold. Banks don’t make payments. They turn off gas/electric (and cause more problems as a result). The HOA is going to sue a bank? Don’t count on it. These idiots are trying to close the door after the horse is gone.
San Jose is so rich we can afford to waste industrial space on car storage for rich guys.
Don’t see what the problem is with that. There’s a whole bunch of unused office space anyway.
Help! Can someone go to the Orlando Sentinel article and check out the reader comments? I want to know what people are saying, but I’m at work and the tech folks have blocked my access. I could probably get around it, but I’ll get in trouble if they catch me. Are the readers as delusional as Mr. Sukhram?
No sympathy from any of the Sentinel readers who’ve commented thusfar (65), but one does blame the problem on our property tax system, rather than on the idiotic property prices.
Another red-herring. It’s not that people can’t afford houses, it’s that insurance is too high on houses that are built in flood zones, on the beach, etc. Oh and property taxes too. Houses are plenty affordable here. (sarcasm off)
here’s one of the reader comments:
“Mr. Sukhram, I am interested in your analysis of local RE market conditions and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.”
signed,
Casey Serin
Go through hidemyass.com : ) It’s a web proxy. I doubt they have that blocked.
Or you can do an ssh tunnel. In that case, they would never ever know lol.
At work I had my access blocked to something, but I am in IT. I asked the network guy to unblock and he wouldn’t. So guess what? I shut down the database the firewall uses to block websites. Voila, I was instantly in. He asked me to give him access back to the database. I said, unblock the website and I will : ). Problem solved. He won’t mess with me again. I have just as much if not more access then he.
LMAO. We used to have a former software engineer from Oracle here. She had a falling out with some of the powers that be, and her parting gift to the rest of us was torpedoing the internet quota time limitations. So now we have unfettered access in terms of time, but some sites are still blocked.
I figure if you are a lawyer, why restrict internet access? Wouldn’t you need to get to Lexis-Nexus and those kinds of places to do some research?
Work from home : ) Problem solved.. or use a web proxy.
A little more than six months ago, Sukhram, who works at a Wal-Mart, listed his home with a real-estate agency for $348,000. He held firm to that price for the first six months, even though his agent brought no one around to look at the house.
HE WORKS AT WAL-MART…wonder what is his burn rate vs salary?
What in the world makes him think he can even get close to his purchase price of $212K? Prices are down since last year. What a moron!
If everything works according to Hoyle, he’ll be greeted by the sheriff with foreclosure papers…
Sometime in the not too distant future.
The comments from the local folks here in Orlando about poor Sukhram are priceless and true to this board. My favorite is “he better throw in a full time hooker in the bushes if he wants to get that price.” Too funny.
Maybe he can start pimping like our favorite mortgage brokers. Anybody here live in Clermont? Swing by and put a red ribbon on his mailbox. Problem solved.
“‘I would not sell it for less than $340,000. That’s a fair price for me,’ Sukhram said.”
A perfect example of an uneducated seller who just does not get the message and will not be able to sell at the current price. His house is probally worth $160,000 and maybe less in due time.
no wonder he works at walmart. My apologize to all walmart employees.
While the comments of Mr. Sukhram are ludicrous he is no different than many who have a more of an emotional than an economic view of what their house is worth.
I have a friend who has recently listed his house. The house has to be sold quickly because of a pending divorce proceeding. Despite the fact that a quick sale is needed and they have a considerable amount of equity in the house they have listed the house at a price that will insure that it will sit for months. Trying to suggest that the price needs to be cut for the house to sell quickly is like speaking to someone in a foreign language. Eventually the price will be cut but only after the market has declined further and months have been spent paying the mortgage and expenses on a house that no one is currently living in.
The notion that house prices only go up is still ingrained into the majority of people in this country. It will take years for this market to shake out.
“The house has to be sold quickly because of a pending divorce proceeding.” He may be better off making a proposition to the wife; she buy out his half of the equity for 10 or 20 cents on the dollar, sign off the mortgage and let her sit on the property.
Unfortunately because of their financial situation that is not an option. The house has to be sold to raise cash. The price will be dropped eventually, but only after they come to that conclusion on their own which may take a number of months. The house is in a desirable location and could fetch a good price, just not what it could a year ago. It is in the price range that will require a jumbo mortgage, I have mentioned the rise in interest rates on these mortgages and how it will affect their sales price only to receive silent repsonses. It is hard for people who follow this blog to comprehend that others out there aren’t aware of the dire problems in the housing market, but most people just don’t believe it affects their house. For sellers their neighborhood, block, house etc. is always immune to any problems in the market.
Fortunately FOR their financial situation, that is not an option! Or so I would say. I know two people (the wives) who “got the house” after a divorce. And anyone who got the house last year or the year before also basically “got the shaft”.
Case in point: Own house free and clear, divorce, house gets appraised at $472k, she gets house, she refis $236k to give him his half. He buys a cheap 1960’s house cash and some cash left over. She is now struggling to pay the mortgage on a house twice as big as she needs, and three times as big once the kid goes to Uni.
Another couple I know had not much equity. He’s out. She’s hosed. There’s no way she can manage the payments, and I htink she sigen it over” to the bank last month.
Sell the house, split the proceeds. But if they have a lick of sense and can overcome their spite, then out of sheer self-interest they should keep dropping the price fast till it sells. NOW!
tu precio es mas also…try that, you’ll get the same response
alto - not also (grrrr)
Not too many more years….the short attention span and shallow pockets of most of these FBs will pretty much give us a bottom in 2010 or 2011. So far, this is tracking just like the Austin bust did 20 years ago (well except parts of FL and CA are getting hit harder already).
“Kay Patel moved to Celebration, the Disney town in Florida, two years ago and set up a laundry business. With soaring insurance costs and property taxes, as well as the slide in real estate prices, Ms Patel told The Times that she was going to have to put her house on the market soon.”
Correct me if I’m wrong. Wasn’t one of the people they were trying to scam on Florida property in Glengarry Glen Ross named Patel?
Possibly though note that Patel is one of the most common family names in the world.
I looked up Patel to see what she paid for her Celebration property, but I couldn’t tie it down. There were 131 Patels in Osceola Cty and none had the first name of Kay. Plus I’m not sure what nationality Patel is, but I couldn’t pronounce any of the first names.
We looked in Celebration in 2001 and houses ran $102-130sf. Now they run from $203-450sf(with reductions). At the peak most ran high 200’s sf. She definitely bought right at Celebration’s peak and she will not get enough to break even. She way overpaid. A 4br/2-1/2ba in 2000-2001 2700sf ran about $337k. Nothing is moving much there, because I’ve been watching it. Some houses and condos have been on the market 2 years. I can tell by the old MLS#’s and many more probably have just been relisted, and relisted. I’m waiting for prices to fall back to 2001 levels then maybe we could afford it again.
look up Patal Motel - they own the motel / hotel businesses in the usa -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3177054.stm
Patals own the motel I stay in when i visit Lancaster PA.
Yeah, but Ricky was complaining that people named Patel would never buy even if Shiva put a million bucks in their hand. =)
Yep.
“‘Now we’re starting to feel the brunt of it,’ said Raine Spivey, broker/Realtor in Ballantyne. ‘It’s going to really show you who’s serious about buying.’”
What is with them still taunting buyers? Does that really work?
A serious buyer is a hard A$$ negotiator. The problem is that a lot of non-serious buyers bought in the last three years. Sigh… Not to mention, prices will only go down a little? In Florida? Dude, give the man a wiz quiz.
Got popcorn?
Neil
As one of the few places in central FL with rolling hills, Clermont has turned into a perfect example of the great Florida dichotomy. Hills are covered with stucco crap boxes and yuppie residents go to some of the newer restraurants and the wineries (funny that when I vistied I didn’t see a whole lot of muscodine wine?) and drive into Orlando for jobs. Meanwhile, the locals continue to enjoy a good dinner at the Sonny’s BBQ and live in trailers surrounded by barking dogs.
Sukhram’s mortgage docs are up on the Lake County Clerk web site (www.lakecountyclerk.org).
Craven…did you check out the records? I took a look and something is funny.
Looks and smells like Helocs.
How else do you expect him to pay the mortgage? Sheesh. ; -)
Sukhram is the norm.
funny thing is, someone bought it in July 2004 for $180k, flipped it to him and made $32,000 in less than 5 months.
this is a cool website. Does anyone know if they have this for the state of MD? I am in Montgomery County.
The closet equivalen is
http://sdatcert3.resiusa.org/rp_rewrite/
It has sales price information but not loan information.
Anyone else notice what I’ve been seeing - RE agencies with online presence that show active listings when I know that many of their listings have expired. This continues for weeks and weeks after the listing is 86. Guessing that the RE “pros” want to look like they’re keeping busy. LOL
Our rental home has been listed for sale and for rent for over a year. The realtor is such a dweeb. “Oh, that one is rented. I can help you find a similar rental….” As my husband says, you know things are bad when realtors are busting their butts for rental commissions!
Don’t know where expired listings are still showing in the country but in Ohio if an expired listing is still showing after 14 days the realtor get fined.
We’re in Florida. Maybe he has an open ended contract with the homeowner.
Perfect timing: my wife is cleaning out all of the stuff I save and just handed me the front page of the October 5, 2006 Orlando Sentinel. The largest headline:
“Report: Area’s housing prices won’t plunge.”
The final quote — the one I had hoped to find, by Stanley Smith, a professor of finance at the University of Central Florida:
“If you’re an investor, you’re probably not going to get great returns. If you’re looking to buy a home, you’re probably not going to lose much — and you may gain some.”
Fast forward to mid-2007 and all of a sudden the university types claim to have called the bubble way back when. Sure thing, sport. That’s not what the newspaper says.
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The MSM goes to these people for quotes for a reason.
Jas
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The MSM goes to these people for quotes for a reason.
Jas
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The MSM goes to these people for quotes for a reason.
Jas
You should frame that article for use in the future.
Send a copy to the University department where Stanley Smith works.
Velo — over my wife’s objection, I saved it, as I do any other proof of the idiocy, folly, naivety and lies of the housing bubble. But that darn Wife Tax nearly wiped out my collection.
I recall that moron. All I can say is “typical academic.”
“Only 1,343 homes and condos sold during August in the core [Orlando] market, a decrease of 40.3 percent from a year ago”
Friggin Wow!
I have a realtor sending me spam. Its his listings for “investment” property. If you take the gross (not net) rent, use 6% mtg (not he current 8% or more for investment loans) us 20% down payment, the property STILL DOES NOT cash flow. OH, yeah, this area (Upstate SC) has seen stagnant sales last year. And this yr is worse. GO FIGURE!
i feel bad for the old sap. since the pool thing won’t be happening let’s chip in and get Sukhram a slip ‘n slide and a water wiggle. this should ease his pain a little.
Lets see… 26,313 divided by 1,343 is 19 months of supply for August. I’d bet that we’ll hit an even two years in September or October when unsold inventory from Summer collides with traditionally slow sales in the Fall.