Incentives And Concessions Are Creative And Abundant
A report from the Philadelphia Inquirer. “The word that best describes the real estate market at the Jersey Shore over the last 20 months is volatile. Sales dropped by more than a third in 2006 from 2005 in Atlantic, Cape May and Ocean Counties, and that decline continues overall. But median prices have yet to follow suit.”
“It’s not uncommon for prices to rise as a real estate market cycles downward, said Kevin Gillen, a Wharton School research fellow. ‘Volume and days on the market are leading indicators’ of how a market is performing, he said, ‘whereas prices are a lagging indicator.’”
“The Inquirer analysis showed that sales in Ocean City fell by more than half in 2006 compared to 2005, to 642 from 1,314, while the median price dropped by $61,000, to $538,250. Still, the median price is twice what it was at the start of the real estate boom in 1998.”
“These days, ‘incentives and price concessions are both creative and abundant,’ said Jay Lamont, host of WPEN-AM’s All About Real Estate and an Ocean City property owner.”
“‘It’s the flippers who built duplexes in the middle of nowhere and are asking for $2 million who are watching their properties sit and sit and sit,’ said Main Line real estate broker John Duffy.”
“For those people who bought at the high end of the market two years ago and now are trying to sell, there is no guarantee they’ll get their money back, said AAvalon Real Estate broker Paul Leiser.”
“What seems to be missing from the current Shore market is the not-so-well-heeled buyer, he said, possibly as a result of the turmoil in the national mortgage market.”
“Duffy said many younger buyers who spent summers at the Shore as kids stretched their resources to the limit to buy pricey places in traditional vacation destinations. Now the mortgage rates that allowed them to do so are getting ready to adjust.”
“‘They bought a place for $1 million two years ago, that’s now worth $900,000,’ he said, ‘and they soon won’t be able to manage the mortgage.’”
The Pocono Record from Pennsylvania. “Jennie Scott is facing higher mortgage payments next month that she can’t afford on her $1,000 monthly Social Security income.”
“The North Philadelphia widow took on a $55,000 loan three years ago to pay off credit card debt and the remainder of her original mortgage. A mortgage broker locked her into the loan with a prepayment penalty. Now, her adjustable rate mortgage is scheduled to reset higher — a fact she said her broker failed to disclose when she was signing the papers.”
“‘I’m a little depressed, but I’m trying to keep on going,’ Scott said.”
“It might be too late for Scott, but the state Banking Department hopes to help other consumers by proposing the most sweeping mortgage reforms in the state in nearly 20 years.”
“‘We’re pursuing it ardently,’ said Steven Kaplan, the state’s banking secretary. ‘I would hope that later this year or very early next year we might actually have something that we can enforce.’”
The New York Times. “Along the streets of Far Rockaway, many recently built two- and three-family town houses sit waiting for even one family to move in. Desperate developers hoping to cover their bets, and stem their losses, tape up both For Rent and For Sale signs inside windows that face nearly deserted streets.”
“The same blocks were once home to sprawling single-family houses with wraparound porches. But during the superheated real estate market of just a few years ago, longtime residents sold out to developers who rapidly demolished the old to build rows of plain vanilla town houses sold, it seemed, to anyone who could sign a mortgage application.”
“As the market cooled and credit got tighter, many of the new homes sat empty. On a few blocks, developers have built nothing but plywood walls to hide the weed-choked lots after the old houses were torn down.”
“‘Folks just went crazy and got into the feeding frenzy,’ said City Councilman James Sanders Jr. ‘They thought money was going to come to everybody left, right and center. Irrational exuberance is what I call this.’”
From Reuters on New York. “The Manhattan apartment market has remained resilient, despite problems in the mortgage market, but brokers are working harder, and for New York City as a whole, the edges may have started to fray.”
“For an army of brokers and real estate agents, life isn’t quite the same as it was in the heady days of the past two years, when in many cases condominium buildings were sold out before they were built.”
“People ‘were calling us order-takers,’ said Pamela Liebman, CEO of brokerage The Corcoran Group. ‘People would walk in the door and sign a contract. Now, you have to have some selling skills.’”
“For New Yorkers who have been spared the pain, a paranoid pall punctuates much of the day-to-day real estate chatter. The financial industry and its big end-of-year bonuses, a major driver of demand for New York apartments, have been roiled since the summer.”
“‘I would think there’s more concern about ‘09 than ‘O8,’ said appraiser Jonathan Miller. ‘There’s more unknowns depending upon how this thing unfolds.’”
“For the whole of Brooklyn…the number of homes sold is down 11.9 percent to 1,247 and the number of days it takes to close an average sale is up 25 days from the beginning of the year to 198, more than six months.”
“Those figures most likely don’t reflect the recent mortgage crunch, as it usually takes at least two months from contract to closing, said Rich Schuloff, executive director of the Brooklyn Board of Realtors.”
“‘The number from September 1st to the end of the year — that’s the number that’s really going to tell the tale,’ Schuloff said.”
“The overall New York City market and even Manhattan has been affected by credit market problems, as it has become more difficult to get or qualify for mortgages, especially jumbo loans, those above $417,000.”
“‘We’ve seen a few people have to back out because they couldn’t get the financing they needed,’ said Michael Moran, executive VP, Prudential Douglas Elliman in Williamsburg
The Times Union from New York. “House sales in the Capital Region fell 11 percent in August, and are down 6 percent so far this year, the Greater Capital Association of Realtors reported Monday. The decline was greater than that for the state as a whole, where sales were down just 7.6 percent, according to figures from the New York State Association of Realtors.”
“Douglas Engels, president of the Greater Capital Association of Realtors, said…while he wouldn’t say that the worst of the housing slowdown has passed, ‘the national news isn’t necessarily affecting our local marketplace,’ he added, referring to the collapse in the subprime mortgage market and increasing foreclosure rates nationwide.”
“He called the local market ‘relatively stable,’ and said financing was readily available ‘unless you have horrible credit.’”
“The number of homes sold so far this year — 6,449 — is the lowest since 2003, when 5,761 houses were sold through August. In that period, median prices have climbed more than 40 percent, to $194,500 in the first eight months from $138,000 in 2003.”
The Boston Globe from Massachusetts. “The median sales price of a Massachusetts single-family home fell nearly 5 percent in August, the 16th straight month of year-to-year price declines, and the volume of sales fell 1.5 percent, according to the Warren Group.”
“August was the seventh month in 2007 in which prices fell between 4.5 and 5 percent on a year-to-year basis.”
“A separate report from the Massachusetts Association of Realtors offered a sunnier forecast. According to the realtors’ group, which uses a different methodology to capture data, the median sales price for a single-family home in Massachusetts rose 1.4 percent in August to $357,000 when compared with August 2006.”
“‘Although sales numbers have fluctuated throughout the first eight months of this year, we’re seeing remarkable consistency in price changes,’ CEO Timothy Warren said. ‘It seems the market is reaching its natural level for the time being. That trend is likely to continue during the last four months of this year.’”
The Glouchester Times from Massachusetts. “The apartments at Pond View Village were back on the market this week at steeply discounted prices.”
“Ruth Pino of Carlson GMAC said Carlson had been directed to drop prices on 33 condos by as much as $100,000 by the representative of major private lenders and the owner-developer.”
“Pino said the 33 units, a mix of one- and two-bedroom condos, which had been pulled from the market at prices of $269,000 to $339,000, are now for sale at $165,000 to $259,000.”
“The regional condo market, while soft across all prices, is at its strongest in the under $250,000 sector, according to Carlson listing agent Anne Pardee. ‘Overall, the market is down,’ Pardee said. ‘But right now, it’s healthiest at under $250,000.’”
Message to spammers trying to shut this blog down: you won’t win.
Amen!
Probably just a bunch of losers up to their ass in RE deals and about to get a financial ass-pounding hoping to derail the process. Hope they enjoy the lull before their years of indentured servitude.
I think a lot of people are scared sh@tless about what we talk about on this blog.They do not want the truth to reach the masses so they try to stop the messenger. Down with the spammers!!!!!
I know this is Lame but it is true;
“They can’t handle the truth!”
I took a car out for a test drive yesterday, and ended up showing the salesman how to calculate payments or interest rates with my HP 12C. He was amazed that I could calc. the payment in 20 seconds and had it to the penny. I carry it around in my car with me to show my wife how screwed home sellers are. It’s like a financial magic wand that you can buy at Staples for $60 and save you thousands!!! YES - these people are scared… they should be!!!
My original 12C still works. Same battery and everything. Purchased: 1989. Go HP!
The 12C will go down as one of the best designed products of the last century. HP tried to kill the product line about 15 years ago and there was a huge protest. I and my brothers went out and bought a lifetime supply. My original dates from the late 1970’s.
i got one right when they came out, i believe around 1981. even though a couple of the keys stick a little, still use it everyday.
my daughter got me a new 25th anniversery edition one, but i’m saving it for when the original one finally wears out.
I think a lot of people are scared sh@tless about what we talk about on this blog.
Ya got that right AzDude.
Everything said on this blog has come to fruition, and the spammers know they can’t refute the logic beyond the posts.
As Hoz noted-only inning #1.
Well, I imagine many REtards–builders, realtors, brokers, appraisers–have now got a LOT more time on their hands than they used to. They can play on the computer and send sad little spam thingies.
Oh, and in between that, pack their stuff up, so they can move it out before the foreclosure man arrives.
OK just to eff up the spammers I’m finally sending you $$ this week.
My $$ is really tight but I think it’s time to take the plunge myself, modest as it may be.
Here’s another message to the spammers:
Look in the mirror…and dwell on yourself…then: …get a life!
I’m Internet illiterate, but is there any way you can identify who it is?? Would love to find out if it’s a RE shiller of some kind.
The spammers themselves are just paid thugs, usually from Russia. Who is paying them is anyones guess.
Spamming has been outsourced to Russia. Arrg indeed.
Yeah, seriously. That’s a tech job. Isn’t it?
Only about 100% of financial dealings with Russians, have some element of fraud
We are not far behind.
Trust me, we are pikers in comparison…
When its been established that readership here includes CNBC and global banking interests, one has to wonder just how stupid the spammers are.
Ben, what if you required registration for comments, may be a bit more work for you but a lot less than dealing with spammers.
They can automate that too. They’ll give up and go away, they always do. But if you can’t get through, just try a little later.
These sort of events make me ponder the undermining of free speech. It doesn’t even have to be legislated away and law enforcement doesn’t have to knock on your door to dampen free speech. Just shout or spam people down or scramble the outlets that they use for free speech. Doesn’t surprise me the effort to destroy free speech would come out of Russia. Our own thugs are bad enuf, I am sick of being exposed to global thugs. Another reason I despise globalization, its effects are more negative than positive, IMHO, at least for many of us here in the US.
That would be a good topic this weekend . The pros and cons of globalization .
Greenspan and BB mentioned Global forces of money supply as the key cause for the housing boom (rather than them keeping the interest rate to low for to long ),so the subject deserves a thread .
I’ll second that. Great topic!
Housing Wizard, I’d like to see it, especially as it pertains to the housing market, since we now know that so much subprime was spread all over the planet. I guess, dumping toxic waste in other countries was the idea.
We are just not advanced enough on this planet for globalization, heck, we don’t even have it together enough in the USA, how can we globalize? There is too much struggling for turf, for resources, etc. Too much resentment, too much global fraud, too much misunderstanding between cultures, too much misused power by multinational corporations. Globalization looks to me like a race to the bottom, to see who can adopt and amalgamate fastest the worst aspects of various cultures (including our own), rather than the other way around, where we get an amalgam of the best that each country offers in terms of government, philosophy, environment, business, etc. Not that some aren’t trying to do this, but the forces arrayed against them are mighty.
Here’s an idea: lets pool money to hire Russians to launch DOS attacks against spammers and their hosting providers.
Palmetto, “shouting down” free speech has long been a tactic of the intolerant left
“lets pool money to hire Russians to launch DOS attacks against spammers and their hosting providers”
They wouldn’t even have to do any typing, they could just reach over and turn off the power.
palmetto,
Don’t sweat globalization — can you say “Peak Oil”?
Ben what about using your archive site for information in case of an extended shutdown? I always check there if this one is not up. Since the archive site works when this one does not I assume they are on different servers?
http://thehousingbubble(dot)blogspot(dot)com/
It is a conspitacy between Suzanne, Century 21 and the Leatherman
Nobody would be expectorating that…
Ben, are these mostly denial of service type attacks?
I think so. VaBeyatch mentions search engine optimization, but that doesn’t add up when you consider that not one single spam has ever gotten through to this blogs comments. Add in the way they absolutely flood the servers with simultaneous attempts, and I can’t help but think they are trying to crash it.
Higher end commercial firewalls may help here, but these are not cheap. I have noticed that your databases often go down, which indicates to me that the initial request may be getting through and causing the system to have to work hard filtering… It would be nice to catch this kind of traffic before it ever hit your system. IP blocking may help in cases where you can identify a single source, but these days most attacks are launched by infected zombie computers. Still, if you can identify something in the request headers or pattern of traffic you may be able to effectively block it. Of course I am talking in generalizations here since I have no specifics.
How about if we have to decode a garbled word either to post or access the site, like on ticketmaster… would that help?
It’s generally automated. Their scripts look for blogs (probably google for the page name for the comment submission, or google for the wordpress or other blog software version numbers), then post comments that contain links to their sites. I assume it’s generally for SEO (Search Engine Optimization). The more links from popular sites to their sites, the higher they can score on google or some such. It is very annoying. But people buy stuff from them which keeps them at it.
Couldn’t a simple kaptcha (scrambled letters that a human, but not a computer can read) work?
Do foreclosures effect neighboring properties. I have contacted 10 realtors in my area and ALL have said (summarized) they do not effect the value of surrounding properties because they are isolated incidents. We price are properties based only on comparable houses. A foreclosure in 400K neighborhood is not comparable
‘Overall, the market is down,’ Pardee said. ‘But right now, it’s healthiest at under $250,000.
- Most of the country can only afford homes under 250k.
- The country seems to be emerging from the ‘Denial’ stage into the ‘Anger’ stage…which will last another 18 months or so.
must be very healthy under 250k in northern va. not a single one on the market for that price.
tax dollars at work-
unfornately, $250K only buys the garage in southern calif. that may change pretty soon though
I don’t even know how a combined income of $100,000 would be able to afford a $250,000. Throw in taxes and insurance to the monthly payment, and eegads! Not much left to eat anything other than ramen noodles. Have kids? Yikes! Kids are toddlers or infants and need daycare? ugh!
Most of this country can only afford homes under $125,000.
This.
I have a feeling everyone is living on credit.
No joke. I am thought to make a lot of money compared w/J6P - and I do NOT feel well off. Quite the contrary.
Even if you were a dimwit, you FEEL your paycheck just isn’t going anywhere. That is the hidden inflation tax.
150-200k ain’t what it ‘usta be. I have no clue how people live on 40-50k. Really.
I don’t know how right now either, and that’s where I’m at.
If you are educated and work hard (I think a lot of people here are/do) you probably make better than average. But what does that really mean? Dollars are so worthless now, I swear you need to make 300-400k before you aren’t paycheck to paycheck (unless you bought a stupid McMansion).
However, I remember making 50-60k. It did not seem bad back then at all - even with a house. Reason? It wasn’t because inflation wasn’t as bad and didn’t chew at earning power half as much.
Truly, I would rather have the lifestyle that 50 afforded a person in say 1990 than 150 does now.
I’m educated and work “hard” at what I do, however I’m so overqualified for what I do it’s funny. The problem has been getting back into my original line of work, since I left it to go into business for myself, which didn’t work out. Everybody wants current experience. I make 20K/year less than I did 8 years ago but that’s the way it is ’til I figure out something else.
I make $47,000 in Boston. Maybe it’s because I’m single, but I feel like I’m living quite comfortably.
Trying to repost…..
I’m educated, however “working hard” at what I do is tough because I’m so overqualified. Since I did a stint in the world of self employment (which didn’t work out) I don’t have the “current” experience everybody’s apparently looking for, not to mention just job hunting itself is such a joke.
The only solution I see is having my own business, but for now have to make do with what I’ve got.
RE: I make $47,000 in Boston. Maybe it’s because I’m single, but I feel like I’m living quite comfortably.
You livin’ with room mates?
BGlobe said a person had to be pullin’ down a minimum of $58k to afford the average apartment in and around the city.
Yes, I live with a roommate–my girlfriend. We pay a total of $1500/month. It’s really quite manageable. If people want to live alone, that’s their prerogative. But I have no sympathy when they start to complain about how tight things are. Living alone is such a waste of money, and nobody is forcing anyone to live alone.
I think $100K combined can probably do the $250K, but not much more. Wiki cites a US Census Bureau analysis of 2005, showing that only 16% of US households make $100K or more, and of those, only 6% make more than $150K.
My wife and I bought a house with a $245,000 mortgage. Our combined income was over comfortably over $100k. I was nervous as heck. I don’t know how people do it.
Not long ago 250K seemed like a lot of money. All those huge figures thrown about, screaming at you from road signs (”From the low 500K’s” etc) have made one dull. Deutsche Bank losing a billion? So what?
My favorite billboard of the bubble was one in Beverly Hills…
Some new housing development, “From the low $1,000,000’s”
My favorite billboard of the bubble was one in Beverly Hills…
Some new housing development, “From the low $1,000,000’s”
Well that is sad only in that the dollar is so inflated away, more people should make that amount….(I should get out a calculator)… I am fairly sure 150k today equals 50-60k 10 years ago with REAL inflation considered….
Ten years ago I probably spent $100 on groceries every two weeks for the 4 of us. Now it’s $200-250, and our pay sure hasn’t doubled. It kills me when I look at the few things in the bottom of the cart and it’s $50, and I shop for groceries at Wal Mart. Don’t even get me started on gas.
Ten years ago I probably spent $100 on groceries every two weeks for the 4 of us. Now it’s $200-250. I kills me when I look at the few things in the bottom of the cart and it’s $50, and I shop for groceries at Wal Mart.
Amen to that. I’m amazed at how fast food prices have increased and how difficult it is to stay knowledgeable about it. At least the gas prices are right in front of your face.
However, concerning making 100K, a 250K mortgage should be pretty easy given the monthly cash flow and tax deductions.
My dad once told me his first house payment was going to be $95 per month. Hey said he wondered how he was ever going to make such a payment. I think he was making about $2.50/hr.
that was minimum wage as recently as the mid-70s…
Yeah, that’s exactly it. There are so many other costs in life besides housing, and I think people overlook that.
Not to mention that little thing called “savings.” Perhaps an archaic word in this country, however…
“But we will sell our house for retirement, we get to live in our retirement savings now.” I had a coworker who had that opinion. Put it all into the house, it will rise fast in value and he will retire rich. Unfortunately he randomly passed away at age 40.
Make that …maybe half, 60K. Interesting pictures on the recession: http://tinyurl.com/2xufc3
“it’s healthiest at under $250,000.”
Sure he’s dying but his legs are in fine shape!
WTF ? can someone explain
“According to the realtors’ group, which uses a different methodology to capture data, the median sales price for a single-family home in Massachusetts rose 1.4 percent in August to $357,000 when compared with August 2006.”
Nope…It makes no sense. Unless the Warren Group includes the $1 sales of parents to children, I cannot see how there can be such a huge difference in the numbers. The Warren Group has a median price of 314K with 5528 sales while the Mass Association of Realtors has a 357K price with 4700 sales.
It sure argues against purchasing from a Realtor.
Possible differences: inclusion/exclusion of condos or townhomes or new homes. Could also be initial sales price vs. closing price. Could be sales made one month closed another, etc. There’s also the “initial estimates” vs. revised numbers. The amount of “initial estimates of XXX increased dramatically from last month’s downwardly revised XXX numbers” is astounding.
The only reliable thing is that you are actively being deceived. Please choose one: a) by someone or b) by everyone.
In any event, you can trust the NAR and MAR to spin the numbers by choosing their statistics to suit their needs. Lies, damned lies, and realtor statistics. That’s the lesson for today.
The Warren Group includes auctions while the MAR does not.
“According to the realtors’ group, which uses a different methodology to capture data”
Sounds like they have been taking lessons from the fed.
From the Times Union article:
:”The decline was greater than that for the state as a whole, where sales were down just 7.6 percent, according to figures from the New York State Association of Realtors.”
NOW haven’t these same guys in upstate been insisting they haven’t taken part in the bubble? Just last month Ben Jones posted an article from this group saying “What Bubble?”!!!!
Then he states:
‘the national news isn’t necessarily affecting our local marketplace,’
Now if your local sales are down greater than other areas within the state, how is your market “stable”?? These guys are complete morons.
“The North Philadelphia widow took on a $55,000 loan three years ago to pay off credit card debt and the remainder of her original mortgage. ”
One gets the feeling that the credit card debt crisis everyone was worried about a few years back was postponed by rolling it into the mortgage crisis.
I guess the remaining options are cashing out penison and 401K money, for those who have it, selling body parts, and revising the bankrupcy code to allow parents to borrow by encumbering their children’s future earnings.
I understand that in some countrys, girls are sold into sex slavery, and perhaps that will migrate here as well, as we become an exporter rather than importer. And perhaps on the public policy side, legalized, taxed prostitution could be the next thing after the tobacco lawsuit money and gambling license fees are used.
And then what?
It simply amazes me How few Americas are willing to fork over $100-200 bucks to see a lawyer and have them explain it to you BEFORE you sign your life away on the dotted line.
A simple little call could have save her thousands maybe tens of thousands of dollars and her home….
Maybe a necessary evil in the future is: a new law stating you MUST have an hour consultation with a lawyer to review the contract, before you can buy a house?
Sorry, NYCdj. I am a lawyer. Most people don’t understand what we say - as a matter of fact, they tune it out. And besides, a lot of lawyers are terrible at math. The contracts are complicated, but innumeracy is the real heart of the problem. And laziness. And following the crowd. And believing that sales people are your friends. And…oh, you get the idea.
You are way better off with requiring the front page of the document to have a chart (12 columns and 30 rows for a 30 year mortgage) in 14 point type of the maximum possible amount of each month’s payment and then a simple declarative sentence of whether you will own the property at the end. That might work. Emphasis on “might.”
{sigh}….I thought I was done with teaching, but I’m beginning to think I should dust off my ‘Basic Numeracy 101′ notes and start running classes again.
I’ll be sure to do several lessons on compound interest and precentages.
When I was in private practice, I caught a mistake in some offering documents. It was a math formula meant to make an adjustment to a payment if the dividends received deduction was reduced for corporate stock holders. Some nitwit had made the adjustment based on making the before and after deductions the same, not on the amount of money that would be received after the deduction was applied and the tax on the remaining amount was paid. These documents had been used several times as a model for other deals.
Oh, and it wasn’t even necessary for everyone to be able to derive the formula. I was a known math geek and I was glad to do it. All the other lawyers had to do is plug $100 into the formula to see if worked out right. No one even bothered to do that.
Funny. In 6th grade math geeks were taunted. Well guess what? Math geeks rule!
I had to go to the bank and the bank’s attorney 3 times in the 80’s during the construction of our house. They figured the interest on the draw wrong every time. I wonder how many people just pay it and never check.
Hi Polly, I am also a paralegal, and i think this would eliminate all these sob stories the media is having a field day with today.
“Well you did see a lawyer and you did sign the contract”
===========================
Sorry, NYCdj. I am a lawyer. Most people don’t understand what we say - as a matter of fact, they tune it out.
RE: And believing that sales people are your friends. And…oh, you get the idea.
Ain’t that the truth. I once pointed out a failing roof, kaput boiler, and severe foundation settlement to some VA buyers
who went along on the appraisal inspection.
Instead of thanking me, on the advice of the POS realtwhore handlin’ the deal, they wrote a letter to their Congressional delegation tellin’ them I was an “obstructionist”, thwarting their attaining the American Dream, and that the VA should be taking actions to have me removed from their fee panel.
VA made a big deal about it. One thing these MF’s dislike is a letter forwarded down from a Congressional rep’s office.
I had to write a major letter defending myself
The whole real estate kit and kooble can go rot as far as I’m concerned.
I have zilch empathy for any FB’er.
BRAVO!!
This is the best idea ever!! The only bad side is that stinking attorneys make out like bandits…. but in a toss-up between attorneys & stupid FBs… I’ll take the lessor of 2 evils.
Timmy-boy
Same as bringing Uncle Harry over to do your home inspection to save a couple hundred bucks.
One gets the feeling that the credit card debt crisis everyone was worried about a few years back was postponed by rolling it into the mortgage crisis.Wow. So people maxed out on their cards cannow charge’em up again. Meanwhile, the government bails them out under the guise of protecting the American Dream, the spending continues, the economy looks fine….So, in essence, the success of the economy is a result of the government giving money it doesn’t have to consumers. Scary.
“…in some countries girls are sold into sex slavery, and perhaps that will migrate here as wellgirls are sold into sex slavery, and perhaps that will migrate here as well”
http://www.marryourdaughter.com
WTF is that? That site is truly distrubing; is that a hoax?
What in the heck is the matter with guys and these 14YO girls? I just don’t get it. Apparently nobody has tried girls/women older then them. That’s just fine by me, all the idiots can keep killing themselves with these teenagers, I will take a 30-40YO women any day of the week over that crap.
Sorry, there is definately something wrong with people!
“Marry our daughter” is a hoax site.
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/marryourdaughter.asp
good catch!
This can’t be serious. And it certainly isn’t Biblical. This has to be a joke.
Oh my God! Totally fake, but funny as hell.
LOL. Notice the bargain price for the college-bound girl.
Probably paying off their credit cards with the bride proceeds.
“One gets the feeling that the credit card debt crisis everyone was worried about a few years back was postponed by rolling it into the mortgage crisis.”
I concur, and stated such at the time. I thought that it was odd that right after this legislation passed there was a flood of (and still are) ads touting the “smart” move to pay off all of those high interest credit cards with a HELOC. Hello! if you can’t pay the credit cards and the consequence is really just harrasment than why would you put that debt onto your home where the consequences are so much greater? When will people realize all of that “great” advice is not, and never will be, in their best interest? Probably never, and that is what the collective “they” are counting on each and every time.
A tale of 2 countries…
“Andrew Jackson bid $4,000, sight unseen, for an east side Detroit duplex where he will move his wife and two daughters because the home he agreed to buy on the west side for $89,000 almost a decade ago is being taken by the bank in foreclosure.”
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070924/METRO/709240342&&imw=Y
“‘It’s the flippers who built duplexes in the middle of nowhere and are asking for $2 million who are watching their properties sit and sit and sit,’ said Main Line real estate broker John Duffy.”
I was amazed when I read that guy bought sight unseen. For all he knows it’s just a shell of a building….anything salable from that place has possibly long since grown legs and left. He likely won’t be moving his family in there anytime soon, or they’ll be living like squatters.
Detroit is a sight unseen kinda place
I have never been there myself, so I speak from possibly a bad stereotype, but I picture Beirut after shell attacks. Am I wrong?
In some parts, no, you’re not wrong.
In some parts, no, you’re not wrong.
Sorry if this is a repost.
They (Jackson and family) will not live there. I’ve been to Detroit many times, made wrong turns and found myself in east Detroit several times. No way can they make it and stay alive. Retired policeman or not, this is a tough area and he should know better.
That’s what I thought too. Our church is supporting a food bank over on the east side and I’ve proposed going over to worship with them too; however, if I do, I’ll be going alone. Sure won’t take my 14 y/o daughter over there.
“‘It’s the flippers who built duplexes in the middle of nowhere and are asking for $2 million who are watching their properties sit and sit and sit,’ said Main Line real estate broker John Duffy.”
Heck no, John. It’s also townhomes whose owners are asking $230k when they’re worth about $180k that sit and sit and sit.
I went to an open house in my TH community, just to get an idea of why no units are selling. Back to basics, folks - it’s the price. Owner asking about 20% more than the unit is worth. I also looked at a rental - a great little spot, a bungalow situated on a horse farm,( yes they still have them around here). Landlord wants about 30% more than the place is worth. Thank God I brought cheap-azz BF to look at the place with me or in my starry-eyedness about the adorable front porch shaded by mature trees I may have signed the lease.
“Cover their bets”
Inbetsment opportunities
“Along the streets of Far Rockaway, many recently built two- and three-family town houses sit waiting for even one family to move in. Desperate developers hoping to cover their bets, and stem their losses, tape up both For Rent and For Sale signs inside windows that face nearly deserted streets.”
“Cover their bets”
Inbetsment opportunities knock?
“Along the streets of Far Rockaway, many recently built two- and three-family town houses sit waiting for even one family to move in. Desperate developers hoping to cover their bets, and stem their losses, tape up both For Rent and For Sale signs inside windows that face nearly deserted streets.”
“Desperate developers hoping to cover their bets, and stem their losses, tape up both For Rent and For Sale signs inside windows that face nearly deserted streets.”
Note to developers: The buyers have been “raptured” up out of the market.
The rest have been ruptured out of the market.
I don’t even know how a combined income of $100,000 would be able to afford a $250,000. Throw in taxes and insurance to the monthly payment, and eegads! Not much left to eat anything other than ramen noodles. Have kids? Yikes! Kids are toddlers or infants and need daycare? ugh!
Most of this country can only afford homes under $125,000.
- Most of the country can only afford homes under 250k.
And for many that is still a stretch. We have tons of sub 250K houses in foreclosure here in the Centennial State.
Yes, well, I had a talk with a staffer at my senator’s office, who thinks it is perfectly reasonable for FHA to insure $500,000 mortgages for “low income and middle income people” and that it has to be that way, because homes are so expensive in New York and New England and in California, otherwise how would people be able to afford to live there and besides, FHA has proven they have the $$ to take the risk. My views on this were shut down, especially when I mentioned Fannie Mae. I was told “That’s the way it is”. So take note, folks. That’s the imperial government response: “That’s the way it is, screw the people”. In other words, all our representatives are now “deciders”.
Hold on now…
There’s just one decider
I have always felt that many in CONgress have watched with fascination while the decider does what he does and wondered how they can get in on the action. Thus, they enable him and hope to be the deciders in their own districts or states.
Oh so true
“Hey you get your NASCAR, NFL and spice channel plus the ability to drive down to the 7-11 to get doritos, budweiser and marlboros whenever you want so just shut up and let us do the thinking for you!”
Face it, your “representatives” don’t represent you unless you have the requistite large sack of money that you can throw in their laps.
The current government of this country is descending to a the government style of certain third world countries, where nothing is done without large sacks of money, political favors, rigged elections, corruption, etc.
No offense, but anyone who thinks it would have been different with Kerry is delusional. That won’t change after 2008 either.
No offense, but who said anything about Kerry? I didn’t vote for Kerry. I’m sick of the politicizing of everything, Dems, Reps, who cares? I’m talking about the system, period. It’s broken and a new one needs to take its place.
Vote Ron Paul.
I just mentioned Kerry because he was the last alternative. By and large I agree with you about the system, in that it has dawned on me, basically this year, that elitists on both ends would look after the chattering classes before us heathens.
Don’t know much about this Ron Paul guy, guess I need to take a look. What about Libertarians???
Ron Paul previously ran as a Libertarian (though he has some small differences), but is now running as a Republican because that is “how the system works”. Right/Left, Republican/Democrat are nothing more than religions these days and they should be throughly separate from state recognition: (ie the state should pass NO LAW regarding political parties). This would keep the parties from rezoning districts, changing primary rules, ballots, or even acknowledge “majority” and “minority” parties in congress. Imagine if you had the Christian Party and the Jewish Party setting all of the rules.
Ron Paul is our man!
I think this country would be better off with no political parties. Everyone would have to run on his own. It would sure stop all the good old boy stuff.
Weird. Nationalism is nice and all but why was your representive’s staff worried about expensive homes in other parts of the country? Why in the heck aren’t they worried about how it’s going to impact Florida and it’s economy?
Florida was mentioned, specifically Miami and Palm Beach areas. But, in addition to New York, New England and CA. The conversation was completely disjointed. Now, could someone tell me what sort of minimum income would be appropriate for a $500,000.00 mortgage?
Probably about $200,000 per year take home.
At least 200K. I would not feel comfortable doing it at 200K, but I can see how it would be possible at that level. However, as you know, in FL, I would not feel comfortable without ~225-250K because of the high tax and insurance burden, as well as the uncertainty added by natural disasters in this area.
THANK YOU! That’s exactly what I said, that you had to be making at least $200K minimum to support a $500,000 mortgage. And you know what? I was sneered at by the staffer.
The conversation really shook me up, I wish I’d been able to record it so fellow HBBers could hear the tone that was taken with me. Condescending, sneering, totally out of line. As if I was, in fact, certifiably insane for even suggesting that $200,000 was the income necessary to support a $500,000 mortgage. I was trying to find out how anyone making $200,000 would even need an FHA loan. I was cut off and shut down before I could find out what sort of income the representative felt would support a $500,000 mortgage. And I was polite, just wanting to know, but the staffer got VERY defensive, which is NOT a good sign. No wonder we’re in trouble. Our reps lack even basic intelligence and math skills.
Is this Mel Martinez’s office??
Uh, to use govspeak “I can neither confirm nor deny”, diogenes.
Anyway, as I was pointedly told, it’s a done deal and that’s that.
Most staffers are just young kids barely out of college with no life experience. My guess is that she’s bombarded with sob stories all day and you appear as if you want to throw everyone out on the street. You know how insulting it is to suggest folks rent - the horrors!
Most of those staffers are kids no older than 24-25. (I’ve seen them.) They fight for the priviledge of making a $25K salary just for the resume cred of having worked in Congress. I guess they all have family/political connections ($$$) to get those jobs. Half a mil is probably nothing to them.
They also fight so hard b/c the right staffing jobs lead to lucrative lobbying jobs
“A separate report from the Massachusetts Association of Realtors offered a sunnier forecast. According to the realtors’ group, which uses a different methodology to capture data, the median sales price for a single-family home in Massachusetts rose 1.4 percent in August to $357,000 when compared with August 2006.”
ha ha
“Accuracy to a newspaper is what virtue is to a lady; but a newspaper can always print a retraction.”
Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.
I expected worse w the early August mess
The National Association of Realtors said that sales of existing single-family homes dropped by 4.3 percent in August, compared to July. Sales at a seasonally adjusted annual rate dropped to 5.5 million units, the slowest pace since August 2002.
S&P’s David Blitzer lays it out (5 minute video)
http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/msnbc/fv.htm??f=00&g=81f76de7-a8f5-417a-a86b-928493acd970&p=source_cnbc&t=s55&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/&fg=
I’m sorry, I missed what they were saying, I was checking out the chick.
“The decline is the lowest since 1991″
Double negatives seem to be confusing anchors.
Hey Ben, I just sent a donation… I urge other blog readers to do the same.
Aahhhhhh… I love the smell of desperate realtwhores and their spamming shills in Russia running scared.
Thanks, Ben, you rock.
“According to the realtors’ group, which uses a different methodology to capture data…”
And what is that methodology? I gather statistics sometimes, myself, for projects, and methodology is key. Let me speculate…hmmm…oh, I know!
I wonder if it’s the methodology where you practice a big smiley smile and prosperous expression in the mirror over and over, until it looks more natural and hides the naked fright and confusion in your eyes, and then you make a bunch of crap up.
I don’t favor that methodology, myself.
Sounds more like Method acting if you ask me.
Making a bunch of crap up? But that’s the realtor way.
I don’t feel bad for the speculators… they acknowledged the risk in making their investment. But you have to feel bad for some homeowners who just didn’t know any better. I mean, a certain percentage of the population will always be very financial savvy, but a certain percentage of the population will never be. There should have been more regulation on these loans to prevent this mess in the first place. Some people are just incapable of making these kind of decisions without guidance. We as a society should care not only for the sake of those who are less knowledgeable, but also for the sake of the spillover affect that this will have on our economy.
If we don’t demand more regulation from our government, we will experience this all over again in the future the next time interest rates are lower and we’ve forgotten about the lessons we learned.
Well ,its just that lenders use to make sure they made a good loan because they didn’t want a loss ,so that protected customers . When it went to selling off everything in the secondary market ,the risk was passed on .So maybe a lender should be required to hold a package for three years ,until it becomes a “seasoned loan” before they can pass it off to others .
Really ,what I think will happen is loans will become insured in the future to get investors to buy ,because they have been burned …really bad .
Aha, thus the reason for $500,000 FHA mortgages, as an “alternative” to subprime, which is what my rep’s staffer told me.
I agree completely. I think that the MAJOR cause of this housing mess is lender’s ability to quickly sell off loans thus not caring about the quality of the borrower or his likelihood of defaulting because someone else will hold the bag. If securitization was illegal or at least not allowed for the first FIVE years, then banks would have been MUCH MORE careful about who then lent it to since within a five year window they’ll be the bagholders!
If we don’t demand more regulation from our government, we will experience this all over again in the future..
Perhaps..
But government regulations enable lazy people to continue to tempt fate while remaining dangerously ignorant, and to breed the next generation of blissfully ignorant children..
Tough love combats the disease of ignorance. Govt regs mask the symptoms.
Govt regs mask the symptoms.As do government bailouts. Some free market we have.
Well said. How about we as a people start acting more honorably and insisting on honesty in our business transactions? Do we really want to increase the nanny state? Our government is way too big as it is. Our form of government and our way life can only be sustained if we the people insist on these things and practice them ourselves.
The more you want to protect the “ignorant” the more freedom you’ll have to take from those who act responsibly.
Are we a society that is geared to the lowest common denominator? What will that look like? I’d suggest we’d have to eliminate all kinds of risks….eliminate smoking (only the ignorant do it), eliminate over eating (mostly the ignorant do it), eliminate NOT getting an education……..even when it is handed to you……
All kinds of things exist in life that will harm people, one way or another. If you allow the government to decide what degree of risks are “acceptible” the government will, quite rationally, take freedoms away as it can ALWAYS be argued that a little less freedom will make SOME people better off.
We can’t live in a totally unregulated society but we also have to understand the nature of government….that is to “govern” all the more. By all means, make contracts ridiculously transparent….BIG PRINT…big warnings. SUGGEST people get counseling if they have little experience in such MAJOR transactions. Make examples of FRAUD widely available in the media.
But never forget that many people are simply lazy or emotional. Unless we can legislate that out of existence (as well as legislate IN that people take advantage of various forums of education) we are simply going to have DIFFERENT problems (not fewer problems) born of the same old greed, ignorance and indolence that burden all humans to some extent.
Freedom to succeed, innovate and create cannot exist without the risk of failing, destruction and pain to some extent.
But government regulations enable lazy people to continue to tempt fate while remaining dangerously ignorant, and to breed the next generation of blissfully ignorant children..
Ah put so well. The problem is instead of 2 stupid people we now have 6. They also tend to have more children.
The answer is not REGULATION per-say. The problem is fractional reserve lending. If bankers had to physically hand over gold or silver (or paper 100% backed by gold/silver) then they would not be able to lend infinite amounts of money.
If they cannot lend an infinite amount of money then they will put the money they do have up for lending at MARKET interest rates. This will mean that the highest priority/most profitable business opportunities get the money and the lower priority/less profitable (and more risky) individuals don’t. This is self regulating AND doesn’t depend upon the intelligence of the borrower, but that of the lender.
The government also has to remove ALL guarantees from banks and then prosecute and imprison (for life?) bank managers / owners that commit fraud by issuing more bank notes than they have gold/silver.
“For those people who bought at the high end of the market two years ago and now are trying to sell, there is no guarantee they’ll get their money back, said AAvalon Real Estate broker Paul Leiser.”
Businesses that use alphabetical tricks, for better placement in the phone book…
Are best avoided
Never thought about that, and I’m from South Jersey and in that area in the summer and see those stupid signs all the time. LOL
They aare?
Arson is so 2006…
http://www.wlwt.com/news/14195966/detail.html
“‘They bought a place for $1 million two years ago, that’s now worth $900,000,’ he said, ‘and they soon won’t be able to manage the mortgage.’”
At the time of buying they probably thought that the price would be 2 million by 2008. Bwahahahahahah… Makes me feel good.
It was March 2004. I distinctly remember a colleague of mine asking me when I was going to stop renting and buy a house. I told him I’d buy when house prices made some sense relative to the general income. He said, “You know the house I bought in 2002 for $355K is appraised now at more than $500K. I don’t think it is a fluke, we’re in for a long-term price rise. You better buy soon.”
It was tough going for non-buyers. Thank God, there was support from the members of this blog. Some of us stood our ground and hoped to see the wonderful times that we are having now. Let us laugh all the way the bank! Bwahahahahahah…
I sh!t you not, even a year ago talking with neighbors about shore real estate they all panicky-like said “5 years from now shore houses will be like 5 million, 10 million.” LOL
The collective thinking seems to be (in a inflationary mania environment) that everyone else is rich except you so you better get in on the groundfloor (or the 15th or 20th floor) now or you’ll forever be left in the dust. Problem is, everyone else is thinking the same thing. One quick way of verifying what’s going on (which no one does) is look up median incomes for an area, look up the general savings rate of the country and their debt loads, and work some hypothetical numbers based on that take home income at past, present, and future believable interest rates (even 15% is believable) and then see what that hypothetical family/buyer has to work with. I know, it’s shocking and it’s a lot of work hard basic math that may take over 10 minutes to sort through, but sometimes you just have to get your hands dirty.
Indeed…after looking up a sufficient amount of median incomes and savings rates…you realize most people in the USA don’t make A LOT of money despite what the media wants us to believe.
certainly not from what you could erroneously surmise driving around: new flashy cars, people buying cartloads of crap, etc…
“What seems to be missing from the current Shore market is the not-so-well-heeled buyer, he said, possibly as a result of the turmoil in the national mortgage market.”
What’s really missing is affordable houses - once houses become affordable (under a 30-year FHA mortgage) - then the buyers will return.
LOL. It has been proven on this blog over a long period of time that the realtors data is BIAS ,and some would call it fraudulent ,and still others would call it sales puff (only to be expected from people on commissions ).Myself ,I call it BS .
Some positive news from the National Association of Realtorliars: “Prices rose in August 2007 from a year ago August 2006, by 0.2%.” Looks like the bottom is in.
“Now is a good time to buy.”
“Prices can only go up from here.”
“Interest rates are still low.”
“Prices have stabilized.”
“There are some very good values.”
Sarcasam off. Like I posted earlier. Under no circumstances trust ANY of these numbers coming from the NAR or the builders and especially do not trust the Fed and government numbers. All these entities have their spin machines working overtime, trying to stave off the serious impending recession.
in orange county, ca average prices are still higher this year than last year. but this year buyers get a house that’s about 150sf or 200sf larger, so price per square foot is down about 5% or 6% on average.
“People ‘were calling us order-takers,’ said Pamela Liebman, CEO of brokerage The Corcoran Group. ‘People would walk in the door and sign a contract. Now, you have to have some selling skills.’”
Would you like to supersize your McMansion?
Please pay at the first window
Great blog Ben, I just mailed you a check (I know, the old ‘check is in the mail’ routine, but it really is, I promise).
On a different note, who beside myself is looking forward to the opportunity to make a seller write a letter to me, the buyer, telling me how handsome I am, how wise I am in my real estate dealings, how attractive my wife is and how lucky she is to have me as a husband….and how intelligent and well-behaved my children are?
Obviously, they then need to come over and wash my car. Then, and only then, will I consider closing on their house.
A few weeks back I went to see a house in a nearby neighborhood. It had been on the market for 6mos and looked like a decent buy. We decided against it because it is a pretentious area and she didn’t want the kids constantly exposed to that element. I told the realtor about my decision, and the next day she forwarded to me a long email from the owner telling me how great the people in the neighborhood are, what a great place it was to bring up kids, etc, etc, etc. The house is still on the market. To borrow a phrase: “BWAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAAHAAA!
Good one. Sellers deserve everything they get from buyers.
Only people I really feel sorry for are all the millions of kids that are getting shafted by their parents’ stupid financial decisions. Being uprooted from their homes, being told their college funds are gone, having to help with the midnight move. Kids are really the only innocent victim in this mess.
They are the innocent victims and unfortunately this is where they will learn this is the way life if lived. We may have a whole generation of screwed up irresponsible kids coming up.
You sound as if you believe the government is a slightly misguided benevolent institution. They purposefully created this mess to grab cash from those least able to pay, and have gotten away with it BECAUSE most of the “victims” are ignorant. The last thing that politicians/bankers want is an educated poor/middle class. Instead people have been indoctrinated with the party line: “Buy, buy, buy!!!! Borrow, borrow, borrow!!!”
Warren’s website says “We can show you the median price for all homes selling for more than $1000″ That would mean that $1 sales are disregarded.
So how goes 828 more sales from Warren represent the large decline in median price? FSBO and autions can make a difference but not 5%.
Does anyone know if the MAR can be audited? Because I dont believe these numbers at all. I would guess that next month, they revise the numbers but at that point the headlines are out.
Oh yeah, if they are a staffer on the Hill, the low salary is just a sort of “apprenticeship” until they can start raking in the bucks as a lobbyist or campaign consultant, or else become part of the machine and start running for office themselves. Makes me shudder.
Homes that were valued at 80k in 1995 are now valued at 175k. For anyone to say that the market is not outragesly inflated is full of it. People have financed and refinanced these homes into foreclosure. I have seen short sales that were 30k more than an identical house for sale just down the road. It is crazy when an average 1600 sqft home that is a “Handyman Special” is 155k. It just amazes me how people can’t come back down to reality. How is the younger generation supposed to start off on the right foot if they have to finance themselves to the breaking point just to get into a home?
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