September 30, 2007

Bits Bucket And Craigslist Finds For September 30, 2007

Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.




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284 Comments »

Comment by Key Lime Toast
2007-09-30 04:56:59

Class act.

http://sarasota.craigslist.org/rfs/435828115.html

If ‘ya Snooze ‘ya looze!

PS: If you decide to email me, I’m only talkin’ to people that have a firmed up mortgage approval or are ready to discuss their financial capacity ON THE PHONE WITH ME BECAUSE I’m IN FINANCE!

PPS: If ‘ya want to contract, you’ll have to have your mortgage pre-approval from your banker people (OR ME) and you’ll have to be ready to pony up $2,500 non-refundable.

PPS: The last house like this in the area recently sold after 17 days on market….so if you’re a serious buyer and you want something in this zip code, ‘ya better make it happen ’cause it’s the first “John or Jane Doe” with an earnest money check and a mortgage APPROVAL that gets this baby!

Comment by Danni
2007-09-30 05:06:01

Oh….My….God….

That was not a real listing…..was it?

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-09-30 05:07:30

That was actually pretty funny. I like how he hammers on Realtors. My favorite line was:

“One thing’s for sure, there are people dying every day, conducting bodily functions everyday and buying & selling real estate everyday…PERIOD!”

What are the chances that this guy’s name is Herb Tarlek?

Comment by txchick57
2007-09-30 05:15:04

My guess is this guy is going to lose a lot of money on the place and is quite angry about it.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 08:38:38

Yep. Behind his breezy tone, the desperation is palpable.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-09-30 05:33:02

It’s hard to say why he chose that tone… maybe B.S. from a frustrated seller. Or he’s someone who knows he’s priced correctly. It might be anything.. but i like it..

then again i cannot opine on his asking price.

Comment by Leighsong
2007-09-30 06:40:02

Good Morning!!

I too am not sure about the area, but I can tell you I sold a brick, 3/2.5, .5 ac, inground pool, with 480 sq ft shop (gorgious home) built in 93, we designed (every aspect) in Niceville FL, 400 ft from bay, for……….$286K.

I advertised in a private, free military forum, and the first one bought (got an e-mail from him Thursday and he’s happy as can be!)

Why? Because I could! We enjoyed the home, my huband made professional upgrades for our enjoyment, and it was free and clear. Why not? Greed doesn’t have drive a sale. Of course, free and clear made it an easy decision.

I don’t think I would have placed an add on CL, but I’m not in their shoes…LOL.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 08:34:52

Love the way this flipper is trying to generate some contrived excitement about this “deal.” Hey pal, if it’s such a great investment, why aren’t you hanging on to it? And just because you bash realtors doesn’t make you an ally of the foolish knife-catchers you’re hoping to foist your alligator off on before the bottom drops out. I smell fear….

 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-09-30 04:58:21

Good morning everybody and what a morning. We stopped into a little bar on Hudson Street last night. We struck up a conversation with the couple next to us. There were only 6 people in the bar. They were in the city to celebrate their anniversary, they said. Then they started to talk about real estate.

It turns out that they own land on Lake Norman in Statesville, North Carolina. That is an area I’m pretty familiar with. That was probably a really smart buy. They would like to relocate to Statesville. I’ve said time-and-again that all Yankees view the Carolinas as their paradise. I think the move to Statesville would actually be good and I told them that. Here’s where it really got good.

They started talking about Long Island. They said it’s a disaster. They told us that half of the houses around them are up for sale. They said nothing is moving. Their own house would have fetched $500,000 two years ago but would be lucky to bring in $400,000. They talked about foreclosures on the rise. The picture was bleak. And you have to remember that I did not ask a single question. I didn’t even bring up the subject of real estate.

I am wondering whether I should tell my co-worker that owns a house on Long Island what I heard last night. While having dinner last fall I almost punched his wife when she kept hounding us and telling us how stupid we were for not buying in the city. There have been no dinners with them since then. I don’t think I will tell him because he really seems to enjoy having his head lodged in his posterior. But what a way to make for a great weekend. The weather has just been beautiful and Long Island is officially crashing. (NYCityBoy wipes a tear from his eye.)

Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 05:03:14

Pops aladinsane was quite the wheel on the western wall street (spring st in el lay, in the 60’s) and he’d fly to NYC 3 or 4 times a month, and we spent the summer of ‘69 living in Port Washington…

Good memories~

 
Comment by Danni
2007-09-30 05:14:45

I only just noticed that the mls on li went up by 1500 houses in the past week. I thought it was strange and perhaps an error but i guess not.
Seaford’s listings jumped from 115 listings to 132 in less than a week. Again, this is definitely not the season for it.
Oh and, miracle of all miracles, 4 houses are listing in the 200s and 10 houses in the 300s in my town. Granted one of the houses is quite literally a shack….yes, a fabulous shack for 220k.
I’m still banking on next year for some deep discounting but this week was definitely giving me some hope.

 
Comment by AZ-IT
2007-09-30 05:17:59

Hope you have enough tissue NYCityBoy! I’d been thinking I ought to call my buddy out on Long Island and see what he see’s happening around him, but when I talked to him about a month ago he was annoyed because they had just discovered a crack in the foundation that was leaking and was gonna cost some serious $$$’s to fix (they bought over a decade ago, so I’m not to worried about him loosing his @ss).

I should track down my sister in Fairfield County and see if it’s hitting there yet. Someone said something about that part of CT. being somewhat immune – hate to burst any more bubbles, but my parents watched half their equity dump when the 89 crash happened. House went from an 800k appraisal to a 400k sale! Unfortunately, as he worked for the FASB and they have something similar to “term limits” they had to take the loss and sell (not really a true “loss” as they had owned it for 17 years, but it was still an adjustment to their plan…) as he had already set stuff up to go into consulting here in AZ (home town). But yes everyone, even the wealthiest areas are not immune to these tsunamis, they tend to be universal in their destruction.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-09-30 06:00:31

“so I’m not to worried about him loosing his @ss”

It is great when typos create funny lines. I am sure there are a lot of a$$es on Long Island that will be loosened during this process.

 
 
Comment by vmaxer
2007-09-30 05:35:10

I can confirm that I am seeing definite price declines. Maybe 10-15% in asking prices, but there are still many house with absurd wishing prices. So it’s a mixed bag. I follow a few areas in a informal way. One area, which is lower end in price but a nice area with small houses, two years ago you couldn’t find anything below $300k. Now theres several houses in the 200’s and one this week one broke the $200K level with $199K. I see a lot of flipper houses, empty but refinished floors, new paint and kitchens. I’m convinced the the flip this house shows turned people off on buying these things. People saw how much money they were putting in someones pockets for a short amount of time and poor quality work.

It should get really ugly over the next couple years. We have a lot of sub prime and adjustable rate mortgages here. Buyers have to be patient. You will be payed for your time by waiting.

 
Comment by sohonyc
2007-09-30 08:01:53

That’s nothing, I was out visiting a friend on Long Island last weekend. Next to his nice old victorian house was a dilapidated looking “gutted” one. I asked what the story was. It turns out that the empty shell of a house next-door is owned by a local contractor who has built many houses in the area. Apparently the contractor has done very well for himself over the past 5 years.

But this is where it got good: This past Spring he decided to do a gut renovation of his own home. He and his family (wife & two kids) decided they would live in the basement until the “upstairs” renovations were finished. Of course, the local real-estate market has now tanked, and business has been very bad.

So now this local contractor (who needless to say, saved nothing) is totally out of money and has been living in the basement with his whole family for months. The house itself is gutted and unlivable. They have no idea when they’ll be able to move out of the basement.

The neighbors are all complaining at the local eyesore, but the house can’t be sold in it’s gutted condition, and the family is basically living underground.

This, by the way, is in a wealthy neighborhood.

LOL.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 08:42:10

Any house can be sold in any condition (unless it’s a Superfund site), if the price is right. Once the mole people in their basement start burning the furniture for heat, that might be the right time to swoop down with a suitable offer.

 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2007-09-30 10:00:30

This man has solved the inflated appraisal and tax assessment problem.
He is able to live in a good local and tell the tax board that his house is worth 1/3 of the neighboring properties.
I think this is brilliant.
Then the market re-settles he can do some cosmetic touch-up and keep his overhead low.
A great plan, I say!

 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2007-09-30 08:11:10

~passing tissue~ (((NYC)))

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 08:37:15

The weather has just been beautiful and Long Island is officially crashing. (NYCityBoy wipes a tear from his eye.)

Be strong, NYCityBoy. We’re here for you.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2007-09-30 09:25:20

One thing I like about you is your tender heart.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 12:35:56

“It takes a big man to cry. It takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”

– Jack Handy, DEEP THOUGHTS

 
 
Comment by bill in Maryland
2007-09-30 10:19:31

A colleague of mine consulting here in Maryland lives in Long Island. He and his wife bought a house there (with dock, jet skis, two boats) in 1998. That was great timing of them, they are happy and more power to them. It’s their paradise (to each his own, I greatly prefer Hermosa Beach for the best weather in the U.S.).

 
 
Comment by AZ-IT
2007-09-30 05:01:21

I don’t know if Ben will have a chance to sumerize the links I sent his way, but money.cnn.com has a few interesting articles up today…

 
Comment by Muggy
2007-09-30 05:02:34

I am going to try to photo this today, but I saw a house yesterday that was having a garage sale. In the front yard was a boat, kayaks, nice bicycles and… drum roll… a “For Rent” sign.

You see, South Florida is working off this totally new economic model…

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-09-30 05:09:24

But were they actually selling “the garage”? “We’re keeping the house but the garage can be yours if the price is right.”

Comment by Muggy
2007-09-30 05:42:39

I should offer them $150 for their fridge and see what happens…

 
 
Comment by Anon In DC
2007-09-30 10:08:20

Here in Washington, DC have started to see some condo parking places for sale without the apartment. Parking used to be $15K - $20K. Now $40K - $50K. Good luck selling at that price.

Comment by nhz
2007-09-30 11:25:56

they should offer them to EU buyers; they are used to 100K euro parking lots in the bigger cities, so this is quite a bargain and getting cheaper every day thanks to B-52 Ben ;-)

 
 
 
Comment by wonderingwhy
2007-09-30 05:05:16

I keep reading about how expensive housing is in Europe. I also read and hear from colleagues, neighbors, etc. how hard it is to find a decent job, even if you have gone to a university. My question is this: who is buying all the overpriced housing in Europe if so many people cannot afford it, yet apparently they don’t give sub-prime, no doc loans?

Comment by nhz
2007-09-30 05:30:04

they don’t have subprime in Europe, at least not in the non-english speaking EU countries. But there are other words for that kind of junk in our language and believe me, it is NOT different over here. How do you think the Netherlands can rack up 600-1100% gains on home prices with just 50% or so income gains (both over about 15 years)? You can still get 10x income (probably 10x stated income as well), 110/120% financing, IO etc. loans here. I don’t think it is ‘difficult to find a job’ because just like in the US, unemployment is near all-time lows in most of Europe, at least if yo believe the official statistics.

Now to the real question: who is buying?
1. people who buy with OPM, like starters who have no savings and buy with no money down, high leverage and all downside risk assumed by the government (nothing to loose for the buyer, EU style). Also, some starters are buying thanks to their parents piggy-bank (think generation mortgages).
2. people who already have some (or many) homes and buy even more with their equity gains: no need to rent out those homes, as credit is cheap (effectively 2% a year in countries like Netherlands) which is easily outpaced by the actual gains in homeprices. Nobody tracks speculators or empty homes in Europe, so we don’t know how much speculation is out there (but it must be significant, especially in southern Europe).
3. people who already have a home keep upgrading because the housing market is a win-win situation, the tax office pays half of the expense (at least in Netherlands, very different in other countries) and the more home you have, the bigger the gains.
Keep in mind that NEW production is relatively small in most of Europe, and easily absorbed by the speculators and a limited number of lucky starters. And regarding no doc: the BBC showed last year how some mortage shops can even provide you with a fake identity and job records if you have no valid passport. Even an illegal alien can get a 10x income loan for a home in London.

Comment by nhz
2007-09-30 05:39:41

P.S.: even Northern Rock, after being ‘bailed out’ by the UK Government, didn’t change anything in their risky lending practices; it’s business as usual and maybe even worse, because all the risk is now directly transferred to the British taxpayers.

Comment by Warm Climes 4 Us
2007-09-30 11:32:01

nhz, I always am interested in your posts. I feel the US is following the European model in many ways. But I have also felt that a deflating of the US housing bubble could have the effect of making us much more competetive to third world countries in business growth and manufacturing. What is the effect of high housing costs on EU’s ability to compete?

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Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 05:39:46

The 1st Annual Black Tulip housing bubble award goes to…

Old Zealand & New Zealand

Acceptance speech?

Comment by nhz
2007-09-30 11:27:54

sorry, still practicing my english …

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Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 05:44:30

Can you heloc on your home in Europe?

Comment by nhz
2007-09-30 05:55:56

yes, of course … but I think in Europe those that use the equity gains use them mostly for buying additional properties abroad, and not for toys and daily expenses like most US homeowners do.

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Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 05:59:09

My guess is without the cargo net (heloc), there’d be no cult of prosperity here anymore…

I really have no clue what makes this country tick anymore~

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 05:44:30

Can you heloc on your home in Europe?

 
Comment by wonderingwhy
2007-09-30 05:57:54

Thanks for clarifying things! Do I understand your comments correctly: Do European governments back home loans? In other words, if a European homeowner defaults, does the government pay for their loan? What happens to the homeowner then in Europe? Do you have foreclosures and eventual evictions like in the U.S.? Also, when you say the government in the Netherlands (the tax office) pays for half of the expense of the upgrade, do you mean if someone purchases a more expensive home the tax office gives them a check for half or do you mean there is a huge tax break?

Thanks, I am just very curious as to why things are perceived as being different in Europe, when in fact there appear to be many similarities with the U.S. housing market. Does anyone know if this is the same in Canada, Australia/New Zealand?

Comment by vmaxer
2007-09-30 06:04:51

A vendor of mine in Germany was visiting this summer. We discussed what was happening in the U.S. housing market. He commented that their we’re many people in Hamburg who we’re living in rental flats and paying mortgages on houses they no longer owned. Apparently, in Germany, when you borrow money your expected to pay it back. I was telling him in the U.S. people could just walk away and maybe have to declare bankruptcy, then start over.

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Comment by Lou Minatti
2007-09-30 08:13:28

Speaking of Germany, we’re told there’s no housing bubble there. I wonder if that is because there are in effect still two Germany’s. The former East German states are akin to our Rust Belt, filled with many old and vacant housing units, with a dead economy and people leaving for better lives. Meanwhile, the former West German states are thriving, with increasing property values. Since both areas of Germany are counted in one set of statistics, it seems there is no housing bubble.

Just wondering, I don’t known this for fact.

 
Comment by nhz
2007-09-30 10:40:41

I agree that there is no housing bubble in Germany, but it depends on the location. One could say that there is a negative housing bubble in the former East part (nice home in remote location below 5K euro, any takers?), and some local hot areas around Frankfurt (banking), Stuttgart (cars) etc. Looking from the Netherlands, if you just cross the border (e.g. 20 km drive) the same home will cost 40-60% less in Germany; further from the border the price goes down even more.

The major factor why Germany lacks a housing bubble is the German reunification that sucked up all the money the bankers could throw at it; also, I am told German RE was relatively expensive to begin with in the eighties.

 
 
Comment by nhz
2007-09-30 11:01:33

some clarification below; the two issues here only apply for the Netherlands, but you can be sure that most EU countries are very innovative when it comes to supporting the housing market.

backing loans: in Netherlands you can get an insurance for every mortgage below 250K euro (soon probably 350K). Because the insurance is semi-gov. it effectively costs the homeowner nothing, because mortgage companies will offer a below average rate to these ‘zero-risk’ customers. If you have to sell your home at a loss, the insurance fund will pay the remaining money if you don’t have it yourself (of course, you shouldn’t have any real savings in this situation but trust me, most homeowners understand that part; you can always keep your personal stuff, your car and almost anything else and obviously, default is impossible in this situation).

There are tricks to use this insurance for higher mortgages (= higher prices homes) too, although this is not official. The problem with the insurance fund is similar to the Fannie&Freddie situation: the fund is officially backed by insurance payments from the homeowners (about 0.3% of the mortgage). As soon as housing prices start tanking (which has never happened since the start of the insurance fund) it will run out of money; because it is semi-government, everyone assumes the government will bail out the homeowners. Currently about 75% of homes sold in Netherlands use this mortgage insurance; more than enough to bankrupt the Dutch government in case of a housing crash.

tax break: Netherlands has a 50% HMD which applies to the income tax, by far the largest tax in Netherlands (and most of Europe). All costs related to buying a home or home improvement (upgrading, kitchen, bathroom, garden, swimming pool) are covered by this so for all these items you get a 50% tax break (without income it doesn’t work of course). Many people use this to the max, because while there is a 50% deduction for all costs, the tax for any gains from selling your home is zero. High income earners in Netherlands usually pay very low taxes because of their home mortgage tax deductions etc.

when comparing to other countries I would say that the only common factor in all these countries is ‘easy money’.

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Comment by nhz
2007-09-30 11:23:37

sorry, tax break explanation above is wrong/confusing: all costs related to owning a (first) home like mortgage and all ‘upgrades’ are fully tax-deductible for the Dutch income tax. Because income tax is about 50%, the government effectively pays about 50% or the mortgage and of all home improvement, as long as you don’t overspend relative to your income.

 
 
 
 
Comment by John Fleming
2007-09-30 06:51:47

First of all, you can’t speak about a European housing market, because there are so many differences between most of the countries, which all have their own fiscal policies, subsidizing programs, etc.
There is no sort of european FICO score.
Quite common though is the 1/3 of monthly income to spend on mortgage payments.
Some countries like Spain and UK have more adjustable rate mortgages. In Spain 40 and 50 year mortgages are quite common, in the UK they even have intergenerational mortgages.
Overall in Europe the average duration of mortgages increases rapidly from under 20 years to 25 years and longer.
When first time buyers in past years saw the loan capacity increase, due to very low intrest rates it set the market on fire.
Now that the intrest rate reverses, many lenders try to compensate this with longer terms or in some countries with some kind of bullet mortgages(f.e. you pay principal and intrest on 70% of the total amount and only intrest on 30% of the rest of which you pay the principle in let’s say 20 years)
Until recently more than 100% loan to value was no problem and often
didn’t even require higher intrest payments, due to high competion among (lenders) banks.
Here in Belgium you even have the phenomena that since recent years
banks don’t even take a mortgage(because rather costly for the borrower) for the full loan amount but instead the ‘possibility to take a mortgage’ at any time they think it is necessary. It also means that in the mean time any another lender COULD take a mortgage before them and leave the first lender with a unsecured loan.
How the banks declare all this on their balance sheets, remains a mistery to me.
You see that also in Europe we can be very inventive when it comes to
mortgage lending. It just takes so long to filter through the pyramid scheme to the upside as it will do to the downside.
Just look back to the beginning of Ben’s blog and how long it took to only beginning to unwind as it is doing right now.
In the mean time much of ‘old Europe’ is losing jobs in manufacturing, chemical, pharmaceutical, car industry, and lots of other industries but thanks to higher government spending and jobs, due to higher tax income from real estate and related sectors they can mask these losses in the overall unemployment figures.

 
Comment by Deron
2007-09-30 10:13:34

I shudder to read of intergenerational mortgages. IIRC, we first saw those in Japan (100-year loans) in the late 1980s. Ugh.

 
 
Comment by Melvin Frumph Hoppe
2007-09-30 05:15:04

I’m in Cold Spring NY up the hudson river from the Big Apple. I bought 3 acres of land about 4 yrs ago. I will never sell it but am hesitant to build as it is not for my primary residence until 6 years from now. it is so beautiful so i will hold it and pay minimal taxes on the vacant land and camp out there. anyway, there are more houses on the market here in cold spring than ever! according to a real estate friend of mine. nothing is moving. every place you go a sprinkle of for sale signs. a builder guy pal o’ mine, down the street lowered his price on a house 100gs from 849 to 749 large. It is still sitting.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-09-30 06:07:06

$749,000 still sounds like such a massive number to me. People’s minds got calibrated to accept this madness. They will now need to be calibrated back to reality and reality states that very very few people should be buying a $749,000 home.

When I was told that some townhouses, priced at $600,000, were “more for low income buyers” it was obvious that people’s minds had become mangled. The market will straighten them back out.

Comment by palmetto
2007-09-30 06:21:44

“When I was told that some townhouses, priced at $600,000, were “more for low income buyers” it was obvious that people’s minds had become mangled.”

That’s how I felt when a staffer for one of my Congresscritters justified the $500,000 figure for FHA insured loans as being necessary in certain parts of the country because middle and low income people couldn’t afford to live in these places otherwise. WTF? “Mangled” is exactly right, NYCityBoy. A massive loss of touch with reality.

Comment by Ernest
2007-09-30 08:49:08

“it was obvious that people’s minds had become mangled”

That’s perfect. I love it!

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Comment by Anon In DC
2007-09-30 10:15:56

Some residents of Fairfax Country, VA subsidized housing have 6 figure incomes. This county need a good old fashion Howard Jarvis tax revolt. Tar and feathers might come in handy, too. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/29/AR2007092901614.html?nav=hcmoduletmv

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Comment by Danni
2007-09-30 07:35:22

I’m sorry, but i can’t see how 350k is even for low income buyers.
In a town where the avg house is 475k but the avg. income is 87k, for maybe a split second one might think 350k is cheap….. the numbers don’t mesh

I’m rooting for 2.5x income

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 08:46:19

My mind is still firmly calibrated around the old “3 X annual income” standard for home affordability.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2007-09-30 09:19:33

Staggering..$600-700 800K would have been a very decent home in upscale Greenwich CT or Scarsdale just a few years ago.

Also NYCboy did you know that towns like Darien and Westport have a ban on building rental apartments? yup no 2 family or MIL houses allowed.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2007-09-30 10:51:03

I’m not far from Cold Spring. I hope you didn’t pay too much for that dirt. Irrespective of what the RealTurds will tell you, if you paid more than 1k/acre, you paid too much.

 
 
Comment by Curt
2007-09-30 05:24:18

Here’s some results from the San Diego condo auction:

(Looks like about a 33% across the board hair cut)

http://tinyurl.com/3xmyta

Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 06:22:18

Mission De-Compished

 
Comment by Jingle
2007-09-30 07:35:57

Interesting observations. Do you know the unit sizes and what this translates to in $’s/Sq. Ft.?

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 08:49:47

From the comments section:

That’s my question too. What do these prices mean for the folks that had previously bought there? How underwater are they now? Will these prices make it impossible for them to refi due to low comps?

The answers seem rather self-evident, don’t they?

 
Comment by Curt
2007-09-30 09:11:49

Here’s a link to the auction brochure:

http://tinyurl.com/358n7j

 
Comment by shermanoaksrenter
2007-09-30 10:44:32

Here are data for per square feet for each unit. One of my friend went there to buy this and talked him out of buying these.

Item Sq ft Asking Sale Price/ sq ft Drop
SD005 1,097 425,000 212,000 193 -50%
SD036 1,060 340,000 210,000 198 -38%
SD040 1,060 300,000 210,000 198 -30%
SD041 1,060 315,000 210,000 198 -33%
SD048 1,060 290,000 210,000 198 -28%
SD038 1,060 310,000 213,000 201 -31%
SD045 1,060 305,000 213,000 201 -30%
SD052 1,060 290,000 213,000 201 -27%
SD039 1,060 310,000 215,000 203 -31%
SD042 1,060 315,000 215,000 203 -32%
SD046 1,060 332,000 215,000 203 -35%
SD047 1,060 300,000 215,000 203 -28%
SD049 1,060 310,000 215,000 203 -31%
SD051 1,060 300,000 215,000 203 -28%
SD053 1,060 300,000 215,000 203 -28%
SD055 1,060 290,000 215,000 203 -26%
SD043 1,060 315,000 220,000 208 -30%
SD050 1,060 310,000 220,000 208 -29%
SD044 1,060 315,000 230,000 217 -27%
SD037 1,060 355,000 240,000 226 -32%
SD056 1,060 290,000 248,000 234 -14%
SD018 1,472 540,000 365,000 248 -32%
SD009 1,097 420,000 275,000 251 -35%
SD002 795 320,000 213,000 268 -33%
SD022 921 400,000 255,000 277 -36%
SD023 921 400,000 255,000 277 -36%
SD024 921 400,000 258,000 280 -36%
SD030 1,123 420,000 315,000 280 -25%
SD004 886 350,000 250,000 282 -29%
SD025 921 400,000 260,000 282 -35%
SD007 1,097 450,000 310,000 283 -31%
SD029 1,361 520,000 385,000 283 -26%
SD003 795 330,000 225,000 283 -32%
SD008 1,097 450,000 313,000 285 -30%
SD011 1,023 440,000 300,000 293 -32%
SD016 1,040 440,000 310,000 298 -30%
SD032 1,022 444,000 305,000 298 -31%
SD020 921 393,000 275,000 299 -30%
SD010 985 410,000 295,000 299 -28%
SD014 1,040 420,000 313,000 301 -25%
SD015 1,040 430,000 313,000 301 -27%
SD026 921 400,000 280,000 304 -30%
SD012 1,023 450,000 313,000 306 -30%
SD001 694 310,000 213,000 307 -31%
SD031 1,022 440,000 320,000 313 -27%
SD033 1,022 450,000 320,000 313 -29%
SD035 1,148 550,000 365,000 318 -34%
SD019 921 390,000 300,000 326 -23%
SD017 827 390,000 270,000 326 -31%
SD034 1,148 547,000 375,000 327 -31%
Total 51,501 18,921,000 13,115,000 255 -31%

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 11:13:24

So much for the attempted media blackout in the information age :-)

 
 
Comment by Lip
2007-09-30 05:59:37

Smart People Do Dumb Things

While doing some Craigslist shopping with the fetching Mrs Lip we went and looked at some bedroom furniture in south Scottsdale. We get the best furniture this way. The guy and his wife Heloc’d his old home to hilt and bought another for $1,200,000. Now 8 months later he has his old home For Sale by Owner for $735,000. This is for a 2000 sq ft, 1970s era house that has not been upgraded!

Are there tax considerations for people that loose a house after they Heloc it to the max?

If so, this crash is going to ruin a lot of people for a very long time.

Lip

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 08:51:56

You fetched Mrs. Lip on Craigslist? I hope she was just slightly used and you drove a hard bargain….

 
Comment by Anon In DC
2007-09-30 10:21:30

These stories amaze me. Is it greed ? Ignorance ? That condition that make people what to take risks (don’t remember exact term) A combination ? Just don’t get !!! rant off !!!

Comment by ACH
2007-09-30 13:22:16

What I really don’t get about all of this is the “risk” on a house when it doesn’t actually produce anything. Houses don’t make cars or light bulbs, or insurance policies.
Usually when a risk is taken it is with the intent of providing a service or a product so that money can be made.
So you can live in a house. So what? I just don’t see how people can look upon houses as money makers. It’s like the car salesman asking me, “So, how much do you intend to invest in an automobile, Sir?” My answer, “As little as possible since it is not an investment.” … at best it is a capital expenditure that is subject to a write down on taxes due to “depreciation”. Houses? Pretty much the same.
Jeez,
Roidy

 
 
 
Comment by polly
2007-09-30 06:19:21

Not real estate, but the grocery store.

I was doing some comparison shopping, and you wouldn’t believe how much the shelves are being cleaned out - of cheap oatmeal. The kind that comes in big cardboard “cans.” The easy prepare, pre-flavored boxes are on sale, but it is the bottom shelf that seems to be selling the most. And not just at the lower end supermarket. Trader Joe’s is fairly inexpensive when you look at comperable items, but it carries a higher end stock.

People are cutting back.

Comment by watcher
2007-09-30 06:44:54

People are cutting back.

According to the government if you substitute cheap cardboard-flavored oatmeal for tasty oatmeal, you are not suffering any loss. In fact, if you get more cheap oatmeal than you did of the good stuff, your situation has improved. Moral of the story; government statistics lie.

Comment by veloblues
2007-09-30 07:32:07

Do we still have large warehouses full of government cheese? If so, maybe there is a way to make money as the conduit between the warehouse and the FB’s who will be needing this stuff soon.

Man, I can just envision giant subdivisions of “craftsman” styled homes full of FB’s driving five year old Eurosedans with minor body damage (can’t afford the deductible and hit to ins. rate) eating government cheese. At least they won’t be throwing their money away on rent!

VB

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 08:55:06

I bet in her new, impoverished phase of life, our late & unlamented LV Landlord has some of that gov’t cheese stuck between her teeth.

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Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 09:38:05

In the O/C there used to be a restaurant, where long suffering Buffalo Bills fans could come to watch their team disappoint them, nearly every Sunday…

One time a brave soul came in wearing the uniform of the hated ‘fish, and the place went crazy mad, vocally.

I think if LV Landlord showed up on here again, written words would fly from our fingertips, in a similar fashion

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 12:40:07

I’m pretty sure that whatever bridge or off-ramp LV Landlord is living under doesn’t have Internet connectivity. She would have to be pretty intrepid to show up in here again, though she’d doubtless be humbled by now.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 13:24:56

LMFAO!!!

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2007-09-30 13:48:00

Aladinsane were you the brave soul? ;)

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 15:45:21

Wasn’t me, i’m a Bills fan by marriage

My wife feels pretty confident that if the Bills (1-3, winners today) left Buffalo, there would be 100 suicide attempts within the city limits…

 
Comment by spike66
2007-09-30 16:21:49

I promised NYCboy months ago that the Bills would stomp the Jets. They may not beat anyone else, but they can roll over them Jets.

 
 
 
Comment by polly
2007-09-30 07:38:50

I don’t know that the cheap stuff and the expensive boxes of individual packets taste a whole lot different except that the packets have a lot of sugar and stuff already added in. But, some of the big tubes actually have to be cooked.

Time is a free input when you are out of a job or your hours have been cut way back.

Please allow me a short rant here:

Why the HECK does anyone bother to call maple syrup organic? It comes from trees. Does anyone actually use artificial fertilizer on trees? In the woods? Even if you did, is there any way to do it effectively? You don’t tap maple saplings. They have to be substantial trees with a huge root system to be suitable for tapping. Is it just paying a fee to some certification agency?

Comment by spike66
2007-09-30 07:50:51

Polly,
real maple syrup is just as you described. Most folks buy corn syrup colored to look like maple, ex Mrs. Butterworth, and may not know the difference. An organic label is just marketing overkill, there is no certification required.

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Comment by Vermonter
2007-09-30 08:01:02

Yes there is certification required! And it’s very intensive, too from the description of it. (See my link…)

 
Comment by Vermonter
2007-09-30 08:08:34

Let’s try again - sorry if it’s a double post.

I asked an organic maple syrup producer the same question. In short, organic certfication protects the tree stock (sugar bush) from overtapping which kills the trees and the humans from potential contamination from lead and other substances. Here’s a write-up I did for a client of mine for her website:

http://tinyurl.com/36eb9m

 
Comment by not a gator
2007-09-30 08:20:20

I love real maple syrup but I also love the corn syrup with fake maple flavoring (e.g. Griffin brand).

Is that weird?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2007-09-30 09:36:39

Hey! I like Griffin too! I like the Butter Pecan flavor best. I have 5 bottles in my cupboard, for in case I ever experience a marathon pancake eating event. I don’t want to run out. Also I like to stockpile.
I don’t actually like real maple syrup very much. That’s weird.

 
Comment by JP
2007-09-30 09:47:18

Is that weird?

Yes! LOL.

 
Comment by vmaxer
2007-09-30 10:08:20

It won’t be long before “Mrs. Butterworths” has an organic “maple flavored” syrup. Mark my words. The food ingredient manufacturers are working feverishly on organic certified ingredients.

 
Comment by spike66
2007-09-30 12:09:31

Vermonter and Polly,
I was interested in your reply re organic maple syrup. Yeah, it’s a marketing issue. Every state or Canadian producer has it’s own standards, and uses them to successfully market their product. There is no federal standard for organic maple syrup–it’s the producer associations that support it.
From Vermont’s Maple Sugar Producer’s own website…

Organic Vermont Maple Syrup
“All Vermont maple syrup is essentially organic, made by boiling the sap of maple trees, with nothing added. In order to legally label their syrup and other maple products organic, some Vermont maple producers have gone through the process of certifying their maple operation with the Northeast Organic Farming Association of Vermont. These producers have prepared and submitted a verified forest management plan and other paperwork that describes how they meet the standards set for organic certification and have paid a fee for the right to call their products organic. These are standards that virtually all maple producers ascribe to.”
http://www.vermontmaple.org/learnaboutmaplesyrup.html#organic

 
Comment by vmaxer
2007-09-30 12:32:32

I would think that Maple syrup would be considered a food, and therefore subject to the rules of the National Organic Program (NOP), created by the USDA. Certifiers use the NOP as a basis for certification. The NOP guidlines can be found in the Federal Register. Representing non organic foods as organic is a federal crime. Being in the industry, I can tell you though that companies are rutinely looking for ways around the regs. “Organics” become a big marketing theme, you can bet there are plenty of cheaters already.

 
Comment by spike66
2007-09-30 14:23:34

vxmaxer,
I got interested enough to look and could find nothing but producer associations issuing “organic” certifications for maple syrup…each association located in a particular state or in Canada. i could find nothing that indicates that maple syrup is covered by NOP. The answer may be in the the link I cited, from the Vermont Maple Sugar Producer’s website, that effectively all maple syrup is “organic’ and and that additional labeling is merely a marketing ploy.

 
Comment by vmaxer
2007-09-30 15:40:38

Spike,

I’m unfamiliar with “Northeast Organic Farming Association of Vermont”. It’s looks like they a certifying agency. As such they would have to follows the NOP regs and inspect the producers accordingly. I would think that certifying real maple syrup would be easy for a producer to do. I would add that the NOP regs do not preclude certain synthetic chemicals in organic products. The allowed chemicals are on the “National list”. These chemicals can be used if they are less than 5% of the product, after excluding the weight of any water or salt in the product.

 
Comment by spike66
2007-09-30 16:20:03

vmaxer,
From their own website, it is a non-profit association, that self-certifies for marketing purposes. There are similar groups in Maine, Ontario, Michigan and British Columbia.
An “organic” label commands premium prices from some consumers, so there is an advantage in creating an organization to self-certify and promote itelf. It is not a government agency by any means. Nor is it in compliance with any goverment regs as the previous link cited said, by definition, maple syrup is organic, no matter who produces it.
Flat out, it’s a marketing ploy,no more,no less.

“The Northeast Organic Farming Association of Vermont (NOFA-VT) is a non-profit association of consumers, gardeners, and diversified farmers who share a vision of local, organic agriculture. Through education and member participation, NOFA-VT works to strengthen agriculture in Vermont. “

 
Comment by vmaxer
2007-09-30 16:36:34

Spike,

On the bottom of their page: when the organic labels shown are used, the products meet the USDA’s NOP regulations. I agree since true maple syrup is by it’s very nature Organic, it’s like certifying water as organic. It is a marketing ploy to bring attention to the fact that their syrups are organic. Expect to see a lot more of it, in the future. I work with dietary supplement, personal care and food manufacturers and their all desperately looking for “Organic” ingredients to get that buzzword on their labels.

Certifying agencies are not government agencies. Certifiers such a QAI and others are business’s or non profit organizations. They are supposed to use the NOP guidelines in their inspections and certifications. The USDA is very clear on when the term “Organic” can be used on labels.

 
Comment by spike66
2007-09-30 20:10:42

vmaxer,
thanks for an interesting discussion. i liked the analogy of labeling water as ‘organic”.I follow this because i started investigating ‘organic’ dog foods when the poisoned food from China became news last spring.
When you see “organic” on dog food it means literally nothing, since there are no established gov’t standards for organic dog food, producers can slap that label on anything they please.
Dog food that really is organic, like Newman’s Own, uses human grade organic chickens for it’s protein base. It’s only organic if the food is human grade and meets standards established for human consumption.
It was an education in dishonest labeling, with the intent to mislead consumers.
I am wary now of anything that says “organic”, and check websites and government regs, as well as reading closely to see if reads “produced in us’, which often means the ingredients are Chinese, and the final label and distribution were done here.

 
 
Comment by Vermonter
2007-09-30 07:58:53

Polly - I asked the same question of a maple producer. It turns out that it has to do with both how they manage the tree stock and how they produce the sap.

For instance - boiling sap uses many metal pans, etc and it’s possible for those to have lead which easily makes into the syrup, etc (which is generally not tested for). It is also possible to overtap a sugar bush so that it slowly wastes away the trees.

Organic certfication attempts to keep you and the sugar bush healthy.

Read up here on it:
http://www.windridgemaple.com/display_page.php?i=5

(Disclaimer - I wrote it and work for the maple producer in question.)

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Comment by polly
2007-09-30 09:07:55

Thanks, Vermonter. It’s been driving me nuts. We used to go to the “sugaring off” at the local audubon society when I was kid. I thought everyone followed rules to protect teh trees, but I guess that was naive. And the lead protection is a nice certification, but I’m not sure I see it an an organic vs. not organic thing.

Glad to hear I’m not the only one who thought of the questions.

 
Comment by not a gator
2007-09-30 12:45:57

Organic chemists out there! Is so-called sugar of lead an organic or inorganic chemical?

Inquiring minds are dying to know.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2007-09-30 09:46:15

Yes, thank you, Vermonter. I like to know these things. Organic certification is intensive certainly. I get goat cheese, chevre and feta, from a farmer down the road who makes it organically, from fluid squeezed out of a bunch of darling little goats, but rather than go to the considerable bother of certifying, he just sells it to handy people who crave goat cheese. Great stuff. But I wouldn’t buy it from a stranger farmer, not without a certifying label.

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2007-09-30 10:11:07

Here’s my favorite: my in-laws just bought a container of “Celtic Sea Salt” ($5 for 8 oz).

The marketing on this package is hilarious. “Free from pesticides and herbicides”! ROTFL! How the heck would you use herbicides and pesticides in salt production?? “Hand-harvested and sun-dried”– I guess the flavor and/or nutritive value would be subtly different if it were machine-harvested or oven-dried.

The best part is that this “More Nutritious than Table Salt” product has *no iodine*, so it better not be the only salt you consume.

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Comment by not a gator
2007-09-30 12:52:23

The best part is that this “More Nutritious than Table Salt” product has *no iodine*, so it better not be the only salt you consume.

Unless you consume seafood, in which case iodized salt may cause you to overconsume iodine. This can cause inflammation. (This is a big issue for me, as I have sensitive skin.) If you live in the Midwest, however, use Iodized!

But I’m with you. I’d rather have food* grade anhydrous NaCl than some sketchy sea salt or sel gris with mineral and organic (perhaps?) impurities, panned by minimum wage 3rd world workers with open sores who don’t wear shoes.

*-I was going to say “lab grade” but IIRC sometimes US food grade is a higher standard … well, before DSHEA tied the hands of the FDA, that is!

I can’t believe the BS salt products out there right now. Salt bubble? Give me my 39c canister of generic.

 
 
 
 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 07:28:57

I’ve heard that oatmeal cookies are pretty popular at open houses.

Comment by kckid
2007-09-30 08:53:08

My sister would always bake an apple pie before showing her house. She said it worked every time.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 08:57:51

Did she bake a St. Joseph into the apple pie, too?

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Comment by Olympiagal
2007-09-30 09:48:06

That’s a freakin’ brilliant idea!

 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 09:52:36

Sorta like a New Orleans’ “Baby Cake”.

 
 
 
 
Comment by homoaner
2007-09-30 07:45:40

Well, this time of year when the weather cools down we go back to baking cookies and bars and cakes, and the regular, old-fashioned oatmeal in the tubular container is the best for that. So I’m stocking up on baking staples - and maybe other people are, too.

Comment by not a gator
2007-09-30 08:22:59

With the spike in wheat prices, I’m seriously considering baking bread/rolls/etc at home.

I think this oatmeal thing is a change. I hate the chopped up sugared o’meal packets, but during the boom it was hard to find the rolled oats b/c no-one was buying them. They were always faced prettily in the aisle because they’d been sitting there for a long time (when you finally found where they were hidden).

I think Irish oatmeal is much tastier. Nutty flavor. You can get it in NE.

Comment by Anon In DC
2007-09-30 10:30:03

A friend from a big Irish family said his mom would mix the oats and water the night before and it made for much smoother creamer oat meal. Guess you could do with the Irish oatmeal too. I make my own instant rice. I put rice in water add a little salt and store in fridge. The rice cooks much more quickly.

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Comment by auger-inn
2007-09-30 06:23:42

I went on a drive yesterday in upper NH to leaf peep. We went through a town called Berlin during the drive. The whole area was sporting “for sale” signs. Every town we went through had plenty of for sale signs as well although not to the extent that Berlin had.
However, while we have been seeing some “price reduced” signs around, a quick look at MLS listings is showing very high pricing continues.
I pulled up listings in the Jackson and North Conway area of NH and was amazed to see how high the land prices are. Seeing land going for 100K/acre for lots and smaller parcels (1-5 acres) and 30-50K for larger parcels depending on view,etc. Inventory seems high but I don’t see or hear about any panic setting in for this area. Perhaps everyone is expecting higher sales in the winter when the skiers show up? Anyone with knowledge of this area please jump in with your observations because it is a bit baffling. I was expecting to see lots of price reduced action in this area and I’m mainly sensing just a slowdown to date.

Comment by Lou Minatti
2007-09-30 08:16:02

I believe that Berlin’s major employer, a massive timber operation, shut down recently.

Comment by WatchingTheSagaUnfold
 
Comment by auger-inn
2007-09-30 11:32:28

Well that would explain it. Thanks for the info Lou.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2007-09-30 10:58:43

The old mill towns in new england have been a destination of choice of sneaker wearing, euro-trash driving imbeciles from metro areas. I can’t quite find the logic in it but it is humorous nonetheless. I have family in North Conway and the contempt for these retards from elsewhere is astounding.

Comment by auger-inn
2007-09-30 11:35:57

I guess we should cross N. Conway off of any list of places to settle if the locals are unfriendly. It seems like a nice area nonetheless.

Comment by exeter
2007-09-30 11:43:05

It was nice area and so were the people, unfortunately you misunderstood me. If you haven’t experienced the phenomenon of seeing your homeland, what you know and treasure, get mangled by negative outside influences, you should stop and consider the implications.

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Comment by auger-inn
2007-09-30 15:06:09

I don’t think I misunderstood you at all. I completely understand why locals would have animosity towards newcomers who they feel, perhaps rightfully so, responsible for lowering their quality of life. I would choose not to put my family in the position of “newcomer” in such a town, which should also be easy to understand.
No problem from my end, peace. :)

 
Comment by CA renter
2007-09-30 16:42:53

exeter,

Try living in California. :(

 
 
 
Comment by spike66
2007-09-30 12:16:03

“the contempt for these retards from elsewhere is astounding.”

And that would be your attitude as well. Wait a year, and NH might be grateful for tourist dollars…I’m surprised that the locals are so rude to Europeans though, their money is still worth something, and frugal Yankees used to respect cold hard cash.

Comment by exeter
2007-09-30 12:26:21

spike I’ve always admired your comments and it seems you’re still smarting from an old comment of mine that you took way too personally. I apologized to you and forgot about it. You should too. Irrespective of all that, you fail to take into account the sentiment of natives when discussing this problem.

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Comment by spike66
2007-09-30 16:30:18

exeter,
you have a serious blind spot…look at what you wrote,
“the contempt for these retards from elsewhere”…
Characterizing European tourists as “retards from elsewhere” qualifies as contempt in my book.

 
Comment by yensoy
2007-09-30 22:23:31

Sorry, I missed it but where exactly did you find a reference to “European tourists”? exeter did refer to “Euro-trash driving imbeciles from metro areas” but I am assuming he meant Americans (and maybe Quebecois).

 
Comment by exeter
2007-10-01 06:23:11

Nice try Spike but I meant what I said. Read it again: “eurotrash driving imbeciles”. I said nothing derogatory about european tourists.

Jeez.

 
 
 
Comment by not a gator
2007-09-30 12:56:33

Lol, Belchertown, MA. Full of giant SUVs and “oh my god, my gas bills are so high with all these 20 mi trips to get groceries!”

Ridiculous boomers whining because the countryside doesn’t have city amenities — then why didn’t you stay in Acton/Lexington/Needham/Arlington/Peabody/Hingham, you tools?

It’s even funnier because the town’s biggest landmark is a seedy townie bar called “The Gin Mill”.

Comment by exeter
2007-09-30 14:09:24

BINGO gator!

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Comment by Rally Mitigation Team Member Bob
2007-09-30 06:31:09

Can These Mortgages Be Saved?
By Gretchen Morgenson
NY Times — Sep. 30, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2×4q6r

ON Christmas Eve two years ago, as Shannon Rivas-Spivey wrapped gifts for her two young sons, she was interrupted by a knock at her door. Standing on her front steps in Somers Point, N.J., was a man from the Atlantic County sheriff’s office, delivering foreclosure papers on the three-bedroom home that she and her fiancé, Harold Spivey, had owned for almost 10 years.

The visit was unwelcome, but not a surprise. Ms. Rivas-Spivey had been battling foreclosure for over a month, ever since the Countrywide Financial Corporation , the huge lender that services her loan, charged her escrow account for flood insurance she did not need and could not afford to pay. During the months it took to have Countrywide fix the error, she said, she fell behind on the loan.

Now the sheriff’s office had come calling. “It totally destroyed our Christmas,” she said. “I feel like a failure. I let my sons down, I let my dogs down. It’s senseless.”

There are two sides to every story, of course. Countrywide disputes Ms. Rivas-Spivey’s contention that billing her for unnecessary flood insurance essentially forced her into foreclosure. It said it has worked extensively with her to rescue her loan from default but that its efforts have failed.

Such painful, personal and financially damaging tugs of war between lenders and borrowers are likely to continue for quite some time. As the home mortgage boom of recent years continues to deflate, hundreds of thousands of borrowers are facing escalating monthly bills on adjustable-rate loans that are either in foreclosure or near it. In August, according to RealtyTrac, a home loan database, foreclosure filings across the country — default notices, auction sales notices and bank repossessions — soared to almost 244,000, up 36 percent from the previous month and more than double the number in August 2006.

Comment by txchick57
2007-09-30 06:54:30

Look at the picture in the story. If she’d skipped a few Krispy Kreme runs, she might have been able to make the payments.

 
Comment by Lou Minatti
2007-09-30 08:20:05

The link points to an eBay registration page.

 
Comment by SawItComing
2007-09-30 08:35:10

try this: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/business/30country.html?hp

“I let my dogs down” This to me speaks volumes about her.

Comment by Icouldbewrong40
2007-09-30 10:18:54

she shouldn’t have been buying her kids presents. The money she spent on plastic crap should go to the mortgage.
I love how the real story always fades away and the media covers the “Poor helpless me” tale.

 
 
 
Comment by BeachBubble
2007-09-30 06:34:51
Comment by dimedropped
2007-09-30 06:57:09

BB- Every time I am asked to appraise a property for short sale I talk to the borrower and inevitably the subject of the appraisal is the holder of other properties in distress. I do think that the pool of empty houses is held by a fairly small group of greater fools. Probably big gamblers in other ways as well. The house just called in their markers. Instead of broken fingers it’s your back.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 07:22:06

Guido shows up in the guise of the sheriff, to complete the disaster…

 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2007-09-30 06:37:18
Comment by Muggy
2007-09-30 07:03:23

BTW, I love this clowns logic: I live in IRB, so rather than walk to water, I am going to drive 1.5 hours to be on a canal. Right on, man.

Own the dream!

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-09-30 07:26:43

But the market is making housing affordable, not the f—ing federal government and their monstrous ideas for Fannie & Freddie.

 
 
Comment by tcm_guy
2007-09-30 07:22:40

This looks like a one car garage with a finished attic. Well, if anybody wants to live in something like this then they better not drive a incendiary device late model Ford.

Got 10% down?

 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 07:44:07

“The living space in the homes is relatively small, about 540 square feet, so TriBird is marketing the units as vacation villas and refers to the park as a “fisherman’s paradise.” The garages, the company says, could be a place to store boats.”

These guys are getting pretty loose with the term “villa”. Looks more like a “tallboy” shotgun shack.

Comment by not a gator
2007-09-30 08:33:44

We have houses like this in Gainesville. They date to the 1920’s and are affectionately known as “garage apartments”.

Gainesville is the kind of place where you tear down a beautiful 1880’s courthouse with a mansard roof and replace it with a dull late 1960’s complex that looms over the square, but 1920’s sh**box-over-garage student dwellings are forever.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 09:03:41

The new apartment complexes in Colorado Springs look like they were built under some Stalinist-era Five Year Plan. Ugh.

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Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 09:51:09

Spent plenty of time in Gainesvile although I’m a Longhorn.

We got alums in my family going back to the beginning of the 20th Century. Supplied a few players to the football team also through the years.

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Comment by not a gator
2007-09-30 13:03:17

So are you crying or laughing at the Gators’ ignominious defeat last night?

I think it’s hilarious. The Gators and Tebow were way overhyped and this whole town needed a good smacking.

I only drove frat boys around for about 1.5 hours at the end of my ten hour shift yesterday because of the lateness of the game, but after that I was ready to choke someone.

I don’t know why I willingly sign up to be b*tched out by unhappy welfare cases and their crazy teenage children but I go spastic if I have to interact with immoral brat @r$3hole fratboys…

I guess it’s their sense of entitlement … you’re only entitled if you pay up, so … where’s my bribe?

Hmm, maybe a little green would improve my attitude towards them! Must come up with a business model to separate frat boys (actually daddy and mommy) from their money.

Oh wait! There already is one–selling houses and condos to the parents.

 
 
 
 
Comment by WatchingTheSagaUnfold
2007-09-30 09:59:03

Will be a featured article in Dwell magazine any time soon.

 
Comment by Anon In DC
2007-09-30 10:37:18

Maybe I have bad taste. But the place does look appealing for being affordable and is brand new. Maybe a nice and cheap vacation place.

Comment by Jay_Huhman
2007-09-30 10:46:27

I know I have bad taste. That does look like a reasonable place to spend a couple of winter months.
$5-6,000 annual lot rent would be my sticking point.

 
 
 
Comment by Rally Mitigation Team Member Bob
2007-09-30 06:39:25

Credit Crisis Could Dash Hopes for a Fall Rally
By Paul J. Lim
NY Times - Sep. 30, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2la84k

AFTER suffering through a nerve-racking third quarter, when market volatility soared but stock prices didn’t, investors are counting on a little help from the calendar.

It is no secret that stocks have had a knack for rallying in the final three months of the year. Since 1945, fourth quarters have been the best time to be in the market, with the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index posting average gains of 4.1 percent. And in four of the last six years, end-of-the-year rallies have more than made up for downright disappointing third quarters, like the one we just experienced.

But before you bank on another fall turnaround, it is important to note that recent seasonal surges in stock prices have been prompted by better-than-expected news about the economy or corporate profit growth.

Last year, there was good news on both fronts. In the fourth quarter of 2006, Wall Street turned decidedly bullish after investors saw that corporate profit growth and the domestic economy were clearly on the verge of reaccelerating. Not surprisingly, the S.& P. 500 jumped more than 6 percent in that quarter, which kept the third-longest bull market in modern history alive and kicking.

But heading into the final three months of this year, it is looking less and less likely that investors will enjoy a similar catalyst.

Comment by watcher
2007-09-30 06:47:20

Dead stocks walking. The rising long end of the yield curve and plunging dollar will kill this dead cat stock bounce dead. This is the mother of all shorting opportunities.

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 07:14:31

Stock market always goes up. Get long or get inflated out of your savings.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 09:06:00

Please be joking.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 11:11:24

The data speaks for itself…

http://tinyurl.com/yug5ol

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 11:28:35

Here is a much better self-explanatory chart of where AG’s post-9/11 liquidity tsunami has taken us…

http://tinyurl.com/2yqp29

 
 
 
 
Comment by txchick57
2007-09-30 06:48:28

A fall rally. Unbelieveable. What did they JUST GET for Chrissake!

Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 06:50:05

I’m mixing up a fresh cauldron of kool aid for the true believers…

Comment by exeter
2007-09-30 11:03:06

I working up powerhits on the super bong for the babbling real estate idiots.

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Comment by Leighsong
2007-09-30 07:01:20

I’m certainly no expert, but from the ground perspective, I don’t think so. People are simply tapped out. But hey, I’ve been wrong before!

Leigh

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-09-30 07:17:26

Yes, the resilience of the consumer is very confounding in the face of it all. Yet, I’ve noticed the store staffing levels are at an all time low lately. Just yesterday a trip to a Kohl’s department store revealed the most amazing mess - clothes everywhere on the floor, shelves and racks in complete disarray as if they hadn’t been attended to in a week or so. It will be interesting to see how stores staff up for the holidays.

Comment by watcher
2007-09-30 07:34:27

Consumers are only resilient as long as someone is willing to finance them. Foreigners won’t finance us with the dollar dropping because they lose money doing it. Let’s see how resilient Americans are when they have to pay cash.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-09-30 08:01:02

The CC companies need to come down a lot harder than they have to date. How about doubling the rate for a minimum CC payment? After all, if congress can seek to change Freddie and Fannie’s limits on the fly - then why can’t they also demand an “emergency” hike in the minimum CC payment?

 
Comment by not a gator
2007-09-30 08:43:13

Actually, Congress forced an increase in minimum payments about two years ago.

The CC’s weren’t happy, as they make the most money on the “sweet spot” of lifetime debt serfs.

 
 
 
Comment by Deron
2007-09-30 14:00:32

Credit card debt has been rising rapidly over the last 3 months per the Fed data. American Bankers Association data shows that many households are defaulting on their mortgages but staying current on their plastic. Not a very sustainable looking picture with layoffs high and rising along with the beginnings of a clampdown on consumer credit by the banks. The bankers have little choice. Their balance sheets are in such bad shape and the contingent liabilities so huge they won’t lend to each other. Why would they increase lending to consumers? The answer is that they are cutting credit lines in some cases.

 
 
Comment by Deron
2007-09-30 14:03:39

The seasonal strength of the 4th quarter is largely in December and to some extent November. October is often the worst month of the year. I’ll be looking to cover shorts in the first week of November: 5-6 weeks from now.

 
 
Comment by Little Al
2007-09-30 06:43:45

I work with educators, and I sincerely believe that they consist of the most mentally challenged group of any large profession you can name. The social maturity level of most of these people is the same as a 15 year old. That’s why they teach high school. They can relate perfectly with the students.
I have been told repeatedly about how foolish I was to sell in 2005 by my financially astute colleagues. Just 5 days ago, a fellow worker sincerely told me to buy right away because this little anomaly downward would soon be over. In a conversation two years ago, my principal confidently asserted that real estate has never gone down in California history. But watch out, I’m beginning to see signs of these mental giants are beginning to wake up, and when that happens we California condors are going to come off the endangered species list.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-09-30 07:05:35

Hi Al, funny you should mention educators and real estate. Up until earlier this year I had an IT job at a elementary school. The teachers there were piling into real estate fast and furious from 2005 onwards. Their confidence, in every single case, stemmed from their belief that they would never be out of work - and considering their union that wasn’t all that irrational. Even so, the prices they paid will ensure that they will be asking for higher salaries at every contract negoitation. The question is, where will school districts come up with money when in all likelihood there will be increased resistance to raising property taxes once house prices come down. In short, how can educator’s salaries keep going up when the tax base that pays them is certain to shrink?

Comment by polly
2007-09-30 07:52:35

There is a huge wave of teacher retirements expected over the next decade or so. BUT, with a serious job downturn on the horizon, college students will pile into a profession that they see as “safe.” And new teachers are cheaper than old ones, especially if they can’t afford any degree beyond their BA or BS.

And teachers can demand more money at a time when they they have lots of other options (becoming corporate trainers). I don’t see them having that sort of leverage any time soon. Though one of my high school teachers left to go back into the army….

Plus, exactly where is the money to pay them supposed to come from? Property taxes? Can’t wait to see teachers out arguing that they should get a raise while the cops and firefighters take a cut.

It will be yet another example of the market doesn’t care how much money you “want.”

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-09-30 08:13:41

Locally, here in Chicago, I am aniticipating a huge crunch in property tax revenues if housing really tanks badly. In the past decade cramming hundreds of tax generating condos on a small footrpint of land seemed like a permanent cure to perrenial shortfalls. But what happens if the condos stop selling and prices and valuations go into freefall?

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Comment by Jay_Huhman
2007-09-30 10:50:17

Don’t ignore the TIFs in Chicago that Daley has pushed through.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 09:12:41

Most educators have never had to live in the real world or make an honest living. They go straight from academia into their ivory tower la-la land.

Comment by Wickedheart
2007-09-30 11:38:47

I would love for you to do my husband’s job for just one day and hear what you have to say about it afterwards.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 12:33:34

I should clarify, most university-level educators. I’d be in favor of smaller class sizes and higher salaries for teachers (provided they get rid of the underperformers). Also, no more mainstreaming! Put the “special needs” kids in special needs classes.

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Comment by ACH
2007-09-30 13:30:20

Hey, I’m a physics professor at a small university. All I can say is that some are in an ivory tower and some aren’t. It all really depends upon the individual’s life experience.
Roidy

 
 
 
 
Comment by are they crazy
2007-09-30 09:35:25

Daughter & SIL are both teachers and they smartly resisted the whole RE bubble - they are renters. Working on paying off student loans and saving. Not all teachers are crazy.

Comment by CA renter
2007-09-30 16:57:40

A number of posters here are/have been teachers.

I’ll be the first to admit there are some very naive and less-intelligent people who enter the teaching profession. That being said, they have one of the toughest jobs around (I’ve worked in both private corporations and as a teacher in public schools — private industry is nothing compared to teaching, and you get paid more for doing it).

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 06:46:44

Finally a bailout idea I like: Let predatory subprime lenders eat the forbearance costs, and leave the U.S. taxpayer alone. This bill would drive a stake through the heart of predatory subprime lending, by taking the profits out of the practice. There are a couple of drawbacks, though, including that it is not clear how the Congressmen who support it would get a campaign contribution cut from the lending industry out of this deal. Is that perchance why Senator Dodd’s name is not mentioned in support of it?

Interesting that CFC is the first lender mentioned in this piece. Not sure if the writer meant to hint they were engaged in predatory subprime lending, or their mention is merely incidental?

Relief bill would let court alter mortgages
By Al Yoon
REUTERS
September 30, 2007

NEW YORK – Bankruptcy courts would be allowed to alter mortgages written by “predatory lenders” in moves that could save 600,000 Americans from foreclosure, according to the author of a bill that has been introduced in the House of Representatives.

The legislation would repeal a provision that prohibits a bankruptcy court from modifying a home’s first mortgage, according to Rep. Brad Miller, a North Carolina Democrat, who sponsored the bill along with Democrat Linda Sanchez of California.

The bill is co-sponsored by Rep. Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat and chairman of the House Financial Services Committee.

Delinquencies and foreclosures have soared as the U.S. housing market soured in the past two years, putting the spotlight on ways to modify loans that are resetting to higher interest rates. Some 5 million adjustable-rate mortgages are slated to reset over the next 18 months, and loan modifications are still “few and far between,” Miller said in an interview.

“Everyone will know what will happen in bankruptcy, so the fact that bankruptcy is an option would lead to negotiations” between the borrower and lender ahead of that event, he said.

Countrywide Financial Corp, which as the nation’s No. 1 mortgage lender has provided one in five home loans this year, said it has provided assistance on some 35,000 mortgages this year, including modifying terms on 17,000 loans.

But a report by Moody’s Investors Service found that lenders eased borrowing terms on just 1 percent of subprime mortgages with interest rates that reset in January, April and July.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070930/news_1h30loans.html

Comment by polly
2007-09-30 08:30:20

So no lender will ever make any kind of loan except a fixed rate fully amortizing with no more than 28% of current gross pay going to PITI (and less if the borrower has substantial other debt) with a minimum 20% down payment? Oh, and never to anyone who has ever filed for bankruptcy?

Cool.

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 08:41:51

Sounds like a recipe for a guaranteed crash landing with the foot on the accelerator pedal all the way into the brick wall, doesn’t it?

Comment by polly
2007-09-30 09:38:46

Oh, yeah. If this one ever passed we might hit the bottom in less than 12 months. Which is why it won’t. Politicians will do anything to avoid a “disorderly” crash. Sigh. Be great for me.

I’m seriously thnking about trolling around the new condo buildings looking for a larger rental unit. I’m sick of living in a one bedroom and I sure don’t want to be doing it for another 2+ years.

Wonder if I could get any of them to pay my moving costs? Probably not….

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Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 10:44:51

‘Politicians will do anything to avoid a “disorderly” crash.’

I would counter that a flood of mendacious propaganda about the real estate market coming back ‘by the end of next year’ (whatever year it is) plus politicians like Dodd, Schumer and Frank talking up taxpayer-funded mortgage bailouts have the effect of choking off liquidity in the real estate market — not financial liquidity, but rather real liquidity in terms of an orderly flow of sales transactions. By providing aid and comfort to sellers who are thus far unwilling to mark their list prices to post-credit-crunch market reality, a large wedge is driven between what buyers can afford under reinstated traditional lending standards and what sellers mistakenly believe is fair market value for their homes. Thus real liquidity in the housing market — the kind which helps realtors stay employed — is currently frozen.

 
Comment by Deron
2007-09-30 14:15:12

I suspect that these moves by Congress (which is the opposite of progress) will not help in the least. First, politicians rarely have a clue on complex issues and this is especially true of finance and economics. Second is the law of unintended consequences and ignorance of history. The only thing that separates us from Argentina is a willingness to not allow easy default and theft from creditors. In fact, only a century ago, Argentina was as wealthy as the US.

 
 
 
 
Comment by auger-inn
2007-09-30 11:44:15

We need to promote this insanity for obvious reasons. Write your senators and ask them to support this new law. We’ll call it the “crush all future lending and speed up this housing market crash” bill.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-09-30 20:06:52

Housing Affordability Improvement Bill

 
 
 
Comment by dimedropped
2007-09-30 06:46:51

The bottom rung of the ladder is slammed too! I am in the process of appraising a subsidized housing project. This is a project that bases your rent on your income. It is really quite a nice project. Three month waiting list which could easily be 6 months but people simply will not register for that time period. Afterall who has 6 months to plan ahead in this job market in Florida.

I was told there is another project with the caveat you must be a farm worker. Plenty of vacancies but the waiting list from the project I am working on will not transfer due to job requirement. Agriculture is a big lobby. Oh, by the way, you do not have to prove you are legal.

Comment by JimAtLaw
2007-09-30 12:44:37

So if I don’t have to prove citizenship, why can’t I just claim I’m a recently arrived farm worker from Mexico and move right in?

 
Comment by ACH
2007-09-30 13:31:37

You wouldn’t be in Oldsmar would you?
Roidy

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 06:54:24

The good news: Mortgages are plentiful for buyers with good credit who are willing to take out loans their permanent incomes will support.

The bad news: Homes are still priced to sell to buyers with buckets of money and boxes of stupid.

The fact that loans are available under traditional underwriting standards will not provide much relief to the resale market until sellers drop their prices to affordable levels.

More bad news (at least for those who make their living by selling homes): As long as sellers (at least the kind in the banking biz) are holding out hope for bailouts, they have little incentive to lower their prices to levels where they will find buyers.

NATION’S HOUSING
KENNETH HARNEY
Mortgages are plentiful, but credit standards are higher
September 30, 2007

WASHINGTON – The term “mortgage meltdown” has become so commonplace – on TV, in headlines and even casual conversations – that you might assume that this is a tough time to get a mortgage.

But the reality is starkly different: Mortgage money is plentiful, the majority of mortgage products remain relatively unaffected by troubles in the subprime segment, and interest rates for 30-year fixed-rate loans remain in the low 6 percent range for people with reasonably good – not necessarily perfect – credit backgrounds. Even interest rates on jumbo loans – those over $417,000 – have fallen after spiking this summer.

The main change over the past several months, in the words of Ted Grose, president of Los Angeles-based 1st Mortgage Advisors Inc., is that “the products and underwriting that allowed people to buy houses they couldn’t afford have disappeared.”

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070930/news_1h30harney.html

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 06:57:42

Warning for entrepreneurs who are thinking of buying up vacant homes to start a marijuana-growing business: Make sure you keep up the appearance that you are an owner-occupant.

Police arrest real estate agent in raids on pot-growing homes
ASSOCIATED PRESS
September 30, 2007

ELK GROVE – A real estate agent has ties to nearly half of 21 raided pot houses, according to a database of properties sold in the area.

Authorities arrested Vivian Hoang, 34, in coordinated raids in Sacramento, Elk Grove and Galt. She owned two of the houses and sold eight while working at Elite Realty of Elk Grove, according to Metrolist Services.

Hoang left Elite Realty more than a month ago, said former co-worker Gus Chaveste who described Hoang as “very nice, humble lady.”

“It was a big shocker to us,” Chaveste said.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070930/news_1h30agent.html

Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 07:42:41

A tale of 2 crops

Marijuana is worth about 1/2 the price of Gold, per ounce…

We eat a lot of oranges when they are in season, and a 25 pound box is around $6.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 06:59:26

Calbreath rocks on at the SD Union Tribune!

Rating the real cost of inflation

The fedaral government says that inflation is under control at 2% to 3% a year — with prices up 15 percent since 2002 — but some key prices have risen much faster, and critics charge that the government is undercounting the pace of inflation

By Dean Calbreath
STAFF WRITER

If you’re like the average American, when you fill your car up at the gas pump, you’re paying 84 percent more than you were in 2000, for an average price rise of 12 percent per year, according to the latest data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070930/news_1b30inflate.html

Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 07:09:17

but, but…

Cagey B told us it was holding rock steady @ 2%?

 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 08:01:32

Excellent article!!

Confirms the blog’s consensus that real inflation is understated big time by hook or crook by the Feds! Glad to see somebody peaking behind the curtain. We need to have more articles like this in the MSM to get the word out about the bastardization known as the CPI and scam that the Fed is running.

Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 08:04:40

“peeking behind”

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 08:38:38

Don’t anyone spread the word to l-t T-bond investors. With a real return near the historic 3% needed to induce investors to buy bonds, the nominal yield would have to be over 10% to fundamentally align with what these guys are claiming to be the real inflation rate.

I still wonder whether the long bond yield could stay as low as it does w/o intervention to suppress the inflation risk premium.

“Rudolph-Riad Younes, a co-manager of the Julius Baer International Equity Fund, told Barron’s magazine this month that if the government counted home prices and energy correctly, the real inflation rate would be between 7 percent and 10 percent.

John Williams, a Dartmouth-trained economist who works as a consultant for a number of Fortune 500 companies, says the only reason the inflation rate is so low is because the Reagan and Clinton administrations rewrote the way the CPI is calculated.

In his monthly online newsletter Shadow Government Statistics, Williams has painstakingly attempted to recreate the inflation rate using its older guidelines. Under his calculations, inflation is actually running at an annualized rate of 9.95 percent.”

Comment by nhz
2007-09-30 11:46:38

and just for the record, the real inflation rate in Europe is similar, probably around 10%. Of course our statistics offices use the same tricks and cheats that are working so well in the US.

 
 
Comment by Deron
2007-09-30 14:20:35

For those who are curious, here is one economist’s attempt to reconstruct the CPI as it used to be. It also contains explanantions of the various distortions that have been introduced into the series and the rationalizations for them. A fascinating read - if a bit technical at times.

http://www.shadowstats.com/cgi-bin/sgs?

 
Comment by Deron
2007-09-30 14:24:42

“The consumer price index assumes that if prices get too high, consumers will start buying cheaper products. For instance, if steak gets too expensive, they will switch to ground beef.

As a result, when items in the CPI’s basket of goods get too expensive, the weight that they are given in the index is lessened and more weight is put on cheaper substitutes. Naturally, that helps keep the CPI lower.”

This is otherwise known as the Let Them Eat Dogfood effect.

 
 
Comment by txchick57
2007-09-30 07:00:13

What a despicable piece of **** of a company (Countrywide). From the NYT article posted above:

The employee, who was granted anonymity because he feared that Countrywide might retaliate against him, said it took a full day for him to reach the right department at Countrywide for loan workouts. Even he had difficulty reaching the right HOPE Team member, he said.

Such efforts may soon become more difficult. At an investor conference on Sept. 18, Angelo R. Mozilo, Countrywide’s chief executive, said the company would be hiring more staff members to do home-retention and loss-mitigation work. Those employees, however, will be based in India.

I don’t know about you all but I’d throw the keys on the countertop before I’d try to “work things out” with someone in another freaking country reading a script on the phone.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 07:22:08

Isn’t globalism grand, Txchick? Maybe you should draw the proper connection between your vote for GOP establishment figures, and their support [at the behest of their transnational bankrollers] for the outsourcing of American jobs. Just a thought….

Comment by auger-inn
2007-09-30 07:57:51

Didn’t Clinton sign NAFTA? Just saying seems that both partys are in on this thing.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 09:18:28

I’m agreeing. Both parties suck.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-09-30 07:26:26

If anything this is only another indication that not many FBs are going to be working out much anything with their lenders. Talk about feigning an effort to help!

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-09-30 07:31:43

We had another support call we needed to place this week that ended up in India. The first was Xerox. That was awful. The second was Symantec. That was slightly less awful. Bottom line: you pay top price and get horse$hit service. Way to go, Corporate America scumbags.

Comment by PV TOM
2007-09-30 08:10:10

I cringe also whenever my inquiries are diverted or answered by overseas call centers. I make a note and do everything in my power to change whatever service or product offering from these companies. “Corporate scumbags” and “outsourcing of American jobs” is NOT a political talking point.

As Americans and consumers we vote everyday.

 
Comment by are they crazy
2007-09-30 09:40:15

I give the person one chance, but if I can’t understand them, I demand a supervisor pronto. I tell them I need to do business with someone who can speak plain English.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 12:49:53

In all fairness, while I’m vehemently opposed to outsourcing and shipping US jobs abroad, I’ve had pretty good luck with Indian call centers.

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Comment by spike66
2007-09-30 07:56:36

The object of outsourcing “help’ lines to India is to get the customer to give up and hang up. From apple to hsbc to earthlink, i have never found an Indian help-line that knew anything about the product, could help with anything, or could do anything useful.
It’s just a corporate black hole.They should save the shareholders’ money and just announce there is no backup for our product.

Comment by polly
2007-09-30 09:45:35

Remember the metric for measuring the effectiveness of customer help lines is how many calls are “completed” which means that the customer ends the call.

I bet Indian call centers are fabulous at that.

The best one I ever dealt with was trying to get a replacement for a part that wasn’t in the box of a computer (a power cord for the speakers I think). He told me to go to the store and get a person there to open up another box and give me the part. I told him I bought it at BJ’s wholesale club and there weren’t any people at the store to provide help to customers. Think I eventually figured out the cord from the old computer would work, but what a mess that call was. I made him stay on the line for ages.

Comment by spike66
2007-09-30 12:30:20

“Remember the metric for measuring the effectiveness of customer help lines is how many calls are “completed” which means that the customer ends the call.”

The Indian centers have figured that out…they put the caller on hold until you give up. And, since they cannot be identified by employee number or name, the game works.
Save the shareholder’s money and can the “help’ lines.

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Comment by Ernest
2007-09-30 09:13:25

I’m with you. We have been sold a bill of goods and everybody bought in.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 09:22:38

Yet you keep voting for the ass-clowns of both parties who obidiently follow their globalist masters’ dictates and remove all obstacles to outsourcing. You can whine about this, or (lightbulb) change the way you vote and stop supporting the Republicrat dualopoly.

Comment by exeter
2007-09-30 11:11:39

Mark my words…. the entire supply side ideology is about DEBT ENSLAVEMENT. What is stupifyingly moronic about it is these same clowns love to talk about “family values” and “honor and integrity”…. idiots.

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 16:27:36

And bigger idiots keep re-electing them.

 
Comment by CA renter
2007-10-01 00:04:44

If our politicians won’t do anything, perhaps U.S. citizens need to buck up and start doing it themselves. Is it time for us to open a new supply chain for all products under the name “American Made”? Think about it…a retailer that strives to get all its products from US vendors, and those vendors strive to get all their components and labor in the US.

F**K the govt (they sure did it to us!). Time for apathetic Americans to grow a pair and make this country great again.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 07:05:18

I would argue the BB rate cut has much more to do with bailing out Wall Street than the housing market. The stock market must keep on always going up, or else the sheeple with 401(K) contributions hard wired to Wall Street will start worrying about the economy. Everyone knows that the economy must be doing well if the stock market is going up.

DEAN CALBREATH
Fed rate cut is becoming ‘Bernanke conundrum’
September 30, 2007

When the Federal Reserve lowered interest rates this month, critics complained that Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke was bailing out homeowners who should never have taken out all those wacky no-down-payment, no-documentation, no-fixed-rate mortgage loans.

Have no fear, friends.

Bernanke’s rate cut has not drastically slashed mortgage rates. In fact, for the most reliable loans – 30-year fixed-rate mortgages – rates actually went up in the past two weeks instead of down.

That’s right. The average rate for a 30-year mortgage rose from 6.31 percent on Sept. 18, when Bernanke cut the federal funds rate, to 6.42 percent last week. And it will likely get even pricier if the Fed cuts rates further.

“People had expectations that what the Fed was doing would help turn the housing market around, but we’re not getting any kind of bump from the rate cut,” said T.J. Knowles, a mortgage broker with CalBrokers in San Diego.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070930/news_1b30dean.html

Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 08:19:32

“I would argue the BB rate cut has much more to do with bailing out Wall Street than the housing market.”

I agree 100%.

The Fed with great fanfare lowered the Fed Funds Rate to 4.75 but on the quiet they have let the Effective Fed Funds Rate drift back up close to 5% as of the close of business on Friday. The Fed is perfectly capable of keeping the effective rate under control as history demonstrates however they are all over the place over the last month or so.

Someone in the MSM shoud run an article “Fed raises the Effective Fed Funds Rate to 5%”.

http://www.ny.frb.org/markets/openmarket.html

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 07:12:55

Fossil fuel originated from plants and animals living in a pristine ecosystem. Ergo fossil fuels are green, just like ethanol.

Advanced biofuels
Ethanol, schmethanol
Sep 27th 2007 | EMERYVILLE, REDWOOD CITY AND SAN CARLOS, CALIFORNIA
From The Economist print edition

Everyone seems to think that ethanol is a good way to make cars greener. Everyone is wrong

SOMETIMES you do things simply because you know how to. People have known how to make ethanol since the dawn of civilisation, if not before. Take some sugary liquid. Add yeast. Wait. They have also known for a thousand years how to get that ethanol out of the formerly sugary liquid and into a more or less pure form. You heat it up, catch the vapour that emanates, and cool that vapour down until it liquefies.

The result burns. And when Henry Ford was experimenting with car engines a century ago, he tried ethanol out as a fuel. But he rejected it—and for good reason. The amount of heat you get from burning a litre of ethanol is a third less than that from a litre of petrol. What is more, it absorbs water from the atmosphere. Unless it is mixed with some other fuel, such as petrol, the result is corrosion that can wreck an engine’s seals in a couple of years. So why is ethanol suddenly back in fashion? That is the question many biotechnologists in America have recently asked themselves.

The obvious answer is that, being derived from plants, ethanol is “green”. :-) :-) :-)

http://economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9861379

Comment by homoaner
2007-09-30 11:03:57

This is one of my pet peeves. Here in MN, we’re required to buy ethanol-polluted gasoline. Which means we pay a higher price at the pump for significantly poorer gas mileage.

If I cross the border into Iowa, I have my choice of purchasing pure gasoline for less money (and the resulting higher miles per gallon) or again buying an adulterated inferior fuel at an inflated price.

Ethanol: just another corporate-lobby-backed shell game with the citizens the losers. Again.

Comment by not a gator
2007-09-30 13:06:12

Totally agree.

I drive a bicycle. Heh.

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 07:18:39

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

History has been made! In just five days, Ron Paul supporters - the forgotten voters of the productive middle and working classes - raised ONE MILLION DOLLARS - double the original goal - for their candidate. This is a truly astonishing show of commitment and support.

The political elites and their media border collies have tried to ignore and marginalize Ron Paul, while the GOP Establishment apparachiks tried to bar him from the debates. After all, Dr. Paul has committed the cardinal sin of showing up the GOP front-runners [thanks to lavish funding from special interests] as Hollow Men and empty suits, devoid of ideals or convictions. These bankers’ errand boys and their wire-pullers in the financial oligarchy must feel a spike of cold fear as word of Ron Paul’s feat - and the dedication of his army of grass-roots supporters - breaks through the media blackout and dismissiveness of our political “elites.”

Those who helped bring about this breakthrough can rightly feel an enormous sense of pride and solidarity with other fed-up citizens who haven’t forgotten that this nation was conceived as a Constitutional Republic. For the moral cowards who observe from the sidelines, while refusing to lift a finger to halt our national march down the road to ruin, please stand aside for your betters who are out making the Ron Paul revolution.

RON PAUL IN 2008!

Comment by Leighsong
2007-09-30 08:01:02

Sammy,

Thank you for opening my eyes to this very humble and honorable gentleman.

Curtsey,
Leigh

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 08:27:09

The pleasure is all mine, Leigh. Please help spread the word: there IS an alternative to the road to ruin.

Bow,
Sammy

 
 
Comment by chilidoggg
2007-09-30 08:02:18

I love Ron Paul. He’s going to cut taxes and make government smaller. And he’s going to take care of our debt by increasing deficits, but because the economy will grow faster, the relative debt will be smaller.

***chews veins out of wrists***

Comment by observer
2007-09-30 11:52:04

Devil’s Advocate: “Unsafe water, bad roads, poor emergency services—your smaller government at work”

Comment by spike66
2007-09-30 12:25:27

“Devil’s Advocate: “Unsafe water, bad roads, poor emergency services—your smaller government at work”

Hey, that’s what we have now with the biggest govenment in the nation’s history.

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 12:47:49

Yeah, that big government performed amazingly well during Hurricane Katrina.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 12:29:25

Worried about being downsized, Bureaucrat Boy?

Smaller gov’t can also be far more efficient IF departments and department heads are held accountable. Bloated monstrosities like the Dept’s of Education, Energy, and Homeland Security deserve the ax. Did anyone from the CIA, FBI or INS get fired over 9/11? No - they just threw more money at the problem. Cut the pork in gov’t, not essential services.

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Comment by Deron
2007-09-30 14:51:50

observer
Those are all properly functions of state and municipal governments, who have done pretty well for generations. To the extent they are performed by the Feds, they tend to be done poorly and very inefficiently.

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 12:52:11

Cynicism is such a convenient refuge for those unwilling to make the sacrifice and effort to help put things right.

 
 
Comment by VT Dan
2007-09-30 08:19:33

So, will the financial unrest between now and the election help Ron Paul or the establishment?

 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 08:23:48

Congratulations to Ron Paul and his supporters! Go Ron Paul!

 
Comment by txchick57
2007-09-30 08:48:36

He’s not electable no matter how appealing he is.

Look at the big picture. He can put Hillary in the White House. Is that what you want?

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 09:30:40

I am looking at the big picture. I’m through holding my nose & voting for the lessor of two evils. I’m quite prepared to let the Republicans lose unless and until they start rediscovering their Middle American roots. I’m tired of Coke & Pepsi “choices” on election day, and really couldn’t care less if any of the empty suits the GOP are putting up lose to the only slightly more odious Hillary. They’ll never reform as long as they can assume they have the “lessor of two evils” vote.

Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 10:01:57

I’m with you Sammy.

We have been sold a bill of goods. Describing the present political oligopoly as Democratic is a joke.

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Comment by zion renter
2007-09-30 11:04:55

Thats why I love RC (Royal Crown) cola and Ron Paul.

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Comment by Shake
2007-09-30 12:36:30

I’m tired of Coke & Pepsi “choices” on election day, and really couldn’t care less if any of the empty suits the GOP are putting up lose to the only slightly more odious Hillary.

You get HFCS or HFCS..take your pick !

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 09:37:41

The vacuous empty suits the GOP Establishment is putting forward on behalf of its globalist controllers will be what puts Hillary in the White House, not Ron Paul.

 
Comment by Michael Viking
2007-09-30 10:26:12

I remember Ross Perot losing his first election because of all the people who “would have voted for him but didn’t think he could win”. Will this be the same situation?

It’s about principle. A person should vote for whom they like, not for whom they think can win.

Go Ron Paul!

Comment by CarrieAnn
2007-09-30 13:39:28

There was no internet when Perot ran. And no hour long youtube videos. Do you believe its possible a grassroots movement could gain momentum? I wouldn’t be surprised. By this time next year I think the masses overall are going to be pretty angry.

I’d like to see it. Given enough forward movement behind that party, I’d vote for him.

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 16:39:06

Ron Paul is running for the Republican nomination. He’s a throwback to an era when Republicans actually stood for something, and believed in outmoded concepts like the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and the greater good of the country over Wall Street plutocrats.

Don’t wait for “momentum” [though RP's grassroots army is growing in leaps and bounds.] Rarely have these shores raised up such a man of integrity and honor - I’m backing him on principle and out of conviction, whether he wins or loses.

 
 
Comment by Deron
2007-09-30 14:57:04

Perot’s problem was that he really had few solutions to offer. He could see the problems clearly and describe them in detail but his agenda was far too vague to draw my support.

In constrast, Ron Paul has a very clear agenda with considerable detail. While I have problems with some parts of it, he is really good on our key financial and monetary policy problems. I don’t like his isolationism but if that is the price of fiscal sanity I’ll pay it.

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2007-09-30 16:10:13

It didn’t help that at the end Perot started to sound like a whack job with some very paranoid accusations about the Bush family. Something like they were spying at his daughter’s wedding. There were a few tin foil hat statements from him before the election.

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2007-09-30 16:53:25

That’s what I’m doing next election. Even if I’m “one of those people” who votes for the “6% guy” i’ll sleep at night as opposed to feeling like I have to vote for someone with an (R) or (D) after their name.

One of the few problems I have with Ron Paul is that he does have one of those initials after his name.

Abolish all political parties!

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Comment by seattle price drop
2007-09-30 18:35:33

TXchk- Ron Paul has an impressive amount of support across all party affiliations- Independents, and fed-up Republicans and Democrats included. In fact, all the people I know who are voting for him are former Democrats.

In Washington State, you have to be a registered Republican to vote for a Republican in the primaries. So I switched and registered Republican. Other former Democrats here are doing the same.

As far as I’m concerned, we have no choice. He’s the only candidate with a brain. Also the only candidate who’s not in the corporation/big money pocket. As with others, I don’t agree with all of his ideas. However, at least I know what his ideas/beliefs really are, unlike all the other pols who just pander to this, pander to that. The only thing we know for certain about the others is that they are for sale to the highest big business bidder, everything else about them is a gray area and complete mystery.

If everybody who likes him just bites the bullet and votes for him, I think he could win.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-30 19:17:42

Bill Maher, hardly a Republican, has endorsed Ron Paul. Among the people I know who are backing him (actively, with financial support and volunteering), probably fewer than a third are Republicans - most are independent and many if not most are disillusioned Democrats.

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Comment by are they crazy
2007-10-01 00:43:58

Problem is primaries start in Feb and will determine who gets fundraising $ for the long haul. If he can’t win a primary, he’s done. My vote for solution goes to publically financed elections. No private money from anyone. The largest portion of candidate expenses is media and not real debates or townhalls where citizens can question candidates and hear their policies - it’s for all the tacky commercials. All the lobbying money goes to candidate fundraising - get rid of it.

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Comment by eastcoaster
2007-09-30 08:05:48

Hi all! Boy do I miss my daily dose of the HBB. Stupid work has blocked me from it (and tons of other sites) due to a recent virus that shut us down.

Anyway, I was talking to someone last night who I’ve always thought was pretty financially savvy. His take on real estate goes like this. My parents are going to put their house on the market in January or so (they’re moving to a retirement community). He said, “That should be a nice $400K for them, eh?” Maybe. I think that’s overpriced, but people are still stupid here. I said, “Even if they got $300K for it, they paid $75K for it about 30 years ago so not a bad investment.” He said they should hold onto it and rent so that in “5 years from now it’d be worth $250K or so more”. It’s already overpriced at $400K, but in 5 years it’ll sell for $650K? What?!

We had a little “discussion” about that and he was impossible to sway (always been that way - I would love to see a debate between he and TxChick because I think she’d mop the floor with him). He said that housing will stay strong (after just a slight dip) because “foreigners will come in and buy everything up”. He has no worry whatsoever about a recession in this country. And said he was worried two years ago, but that was unfounded so now he’s optimistic about everything. I told him he was just premature 2 years ago. Again, no swaying him.

Very frustrating to talk to people who are of the mindset like this. If he’s right, I will be living off food stamps in the not-too-distant future because my salary sure as hell can’t keep up with his financial theories.

Comment by exeter
2007-09-30 11:28:35

Eastcoaster, so your friend is saying “it’s different this time” like the rest of the retards.

So whats new?

 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2007-09-30 20:07:15

“And said he was worried two years ago, but that was unfounded so now he’s optimistic about everything.”

I am going to call bulls&^% on this one. Two years ago the only people I knew worried about real estate and the bubble were on this blog. NO ONE else was talking about it, even financially educated people who should have known better. Ironically, they now all claim to have seen this coming and to have called it. even the ones I had screaming matches with. Nope - a few knew and everyone else has just jumped on the bandwagon.

Comment by CA renter
2007-10-01 00:25:03

Agree, SD RE Bear!

We had to resort to “verbal violence” in defense of our choice to sell and rent in 2004. Now, those same people are tsk-tsk-ing all the “bad” mortgages and how anyone could have seen this coming. A bit frustrating, to say the least; but at least those of us on this blog know the truth. :)

 
 
 
Comment by cactus
2007-09-30 08:33:15

Diary of a mad realtor or what? I think its fake but its a funny read.
http://marvelousbend.wordpress.com/

Comment by cactus
2007-09-30 09:04:21

Haha I read it again very hilarious and well written. there are some talented people out there in cyberspace. The linked blog is a diary of a fictional ? realtor in Bend Oregon who could be right off Flip this house or some other obnoxious TV show.

 
Comment by manhattanite
2007-09-30 10:07:34

that is absolutely frick’n hilarious!!! truly excellent parody. read some of the comments. he/she is one talented blogger.

 
Comment by bendtreehugger
2007-09-30 10:09:18

Only the truth could be so funny.

Comment by manhattanite
2007-09-30 10:25:04

“sally” has founded a new almalgamated artform — how about parareality???. i think sally is putting us on so well that many of the comments are serious….

maybe the true measure of great parody is that you can’t tell it’s a put-on.

i think if it was real, you’d have a phone number, etc. anyone located “sally heatherton, realtor” in bend???

 
Comment by manhattanite
2007-09-30 10:28:45

well, i did a bit of googling, and “sally’s” blog has created some intrigue in cyberspace.

it’s a put-on! 5 stars for sally!!!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sally+heatherton+bend+real+estate

Comment by manhattanite
2007-09-30 10:30:27

(if she were a realtor, she wouldn’t have tagged her own blog with “bubble”!)

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Comment by manhattanite
2007-09-30 11:31:26

ok, here’s the skinny on this talented blogger/parodist at “marvelous bend”

http://www.tsweekly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1995&Itemid=153

 
 
 
 
Comment by homoaner
2007-09-30 11:23:37

OMG this is killer bee! Nearly as good as the late lamented “there is no housing bubble” blog. Here’s an excerpt from “Sally’s” blog:

“Two years ago, buyers would do anything for a seller. But this man who wanted to buy the house… Well, he seemed so nice at first, but he made a face when I told him about the birds. And when the offer came in, a paragraph that I didn’t even see was in there. I don’t know how I missed it. But I passed it along to Mrs. Moss with a smile on my face (I will never forgive the prospective buyer for this). The clause said that Mrs. Moss (”aka The Old Bird,” as the contract said), for the rest of her life, must come to the house every Halloween DRESSED AS A BIRD and eat a bowl of birdseed for the amusement of his party guests.

Never in my life have I seen buyers wearing such scorn for sellers on their sleeves. It’s as if they think they are calling all the shots. It’s unbearable, really.”

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2007-09-30 14:42:26

This was funny.

Okay, which one of you is Sally Heatherton, Realtor in Bend?

 
Comment by manhattanite
2007-09-30 17:54:23

a ‘comment’ from sally’s cute new assistant’s boyfriend, after sally describes the cute young thing … ‘all of whose body parts point north’:

“Yo Sally, this is Jethro. Jennifers live-in, I came up with her from Atlanta, and yes I’m black. I haven’t left our apartment once since we got here.

Being black folk in a town of 70,000 crazy meth induced white RE flippers is some scary fucking shit.

Bend is out of the 1950’s KKK territory. I need to be with my own people.

Jen says once you go black, you don’t go back, I got some bro coming up here for a score. I ain’t going no where in public in this town. If you want some meat and motion, why not come over with jen at the end of the day. Bend is no Atlanta, but I think our hospitality will reassure you. Jen makes some great comfort food to boot.

I’m scared to death here, but my ability to love will not be impeded by the whiteman.”

tooooo funny!

and, i suspect, too true.

 
 
Comment by lvrenter
2007-09-30 08:35:52

Here’s a pricing report from southern Nevada, if anyone’s interested. Mrs. LVrenter and I went driving around the Green Valley area of Las Vegas/Henderson yesterday to survey the carnage. Here is what we found: 10-15% reductions in established resale neighborhoods from peak. Deeper discounts in the newer flipper areas on the outside edges of civilization. Terrible stucco-boxness and zero lot line-ness in those hoods as well. Prices $200-$225 a square foot (don’t scoff, Californians, we’re cheaper but that’s still too high). Waiting for 125-150 a square foot before we budge. LV out.

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 11:21:39

Your handle reminds me of our dearly departed LV_Landlord. I wonder how his investments are holding up these days?

 
 
Comment by not a gator
2007-09-30 08:37:53

Looks like this story was not picked up outside of Gainesville, so here goes:

Kemp blasts capital gains tax

Following a presentation predicting further declines in the housing market in the coming years, former HUD secretary and Republican congressman Jack Kemp told a gathering of real estate professionals and students Friday that the long view looks better - with one caveat.

Former U.S. Rep. Jack Kemp speaks to real estate executives during the University of Florida Real Estate Trends and Strategies Conference on Friday.

“At this moment of incredible opportunity - notwithstanding some bumps in the road - there’s unlimited horizons, if we make the right policy choices,” he said.

Kemp was the keynote speaker at the University of Florida Real Estate Trends and Strategies Conference hosted by the UF Bergstrom Center for Real Estate Studies.

What got me was this part:

Back then, Kemp said he saw opportunity. His solution was to cut taxes to create investment capital that would grow the economy and create more tax revenue. He helped author the Kemp-Roth tax cut of 1982 and is credited as one of the architects of “Reaganomics,” also known as “trickle-down” economics, a description he disputes.

“It wasn’t trickle-down economics, it was Niagara Falls,” he said, saying the nation was then “awash in capital formation.”

More like a Niagara Falls of fraud.

Just like this time.

Deregulation + loosening credit + tax breaks for specuvestors = giant taxpayer bailout

How about that S&L bailout, Kemp?

Comment by are they crazy
2007-09-30 09:45:19

Where’s my share of the trickle down? It never seems to trickle down past the so called wealthy.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 08:48:19

Can anyone comment on former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers’ relationship to the GSEs, for whose bailout measures he has been lobbying behind the scenes? It sounds to me like he is in the same club as some of the GSE playas…

Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 9:46 AM HAST
Steve Case and partners creating new credit card
Pacific Business News (Honolulu)

The lucrative business of credit cards and payment networks is drawing a powerful team to create a new credit card and Internet-based payment network that promises to save merchants billions of dollars on the cost of accepting credit cards.

Specifically, the new RevolutionCard will carry merchant fees that are 75 percent less than traditional payment networks.

Chalk this one up to the list of challenges facing Visa USA, MasterCard (NYSE: MA) and American Express. (NYSE: AXP)

Steve Case, former AOL CEO who runs his own investment firm, Revolution LLC, unveiled Revolution Money this week. The new company will offer a credit card and a free money exchange service that will compete against eBay’s (Nasdaq: EBAY) Paypal. Hawaii-born Case is a graduate of Punahou School whose Hawaii investments include ownership of Kauai’s Grove Farm Co. Inc. and a majority interest in Maui Land & Pineapple Inc.

“Traditional, and even online, incumbents have been charging what adds up to billions of dollars of fees every year that ultimately comes out of consumers’ pockets,” said Case.

Revolution Money, formerly GratisCardInc, raised $50 million in a second round financing. Former AOL executive Ted Leonsis, who was chairman of GratisCard, will continue in that role.

The financing was led by Citigroup Inc., (NYSE: C) Morgan Stanley (NYSE: MS) and Deutsche Bank as well as Leonsis and Revolution. Citi is also making a lending commitment so Revolution Money can extend credit to prime, or creditworthy, customers.

Revolution Money’s board includes former Charles Schwab (Nasdaq: SCHW) CEO David Pottruck, former JP Morgan (NYSE: JPM) Vice Chairman David Golden, former U.S. Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers, former Fannie Mae (NYSE: FNM) CEO Franklin Raines, and former MasterCard International President and CEO Russell Hogg. His son, Jason Hogg, is co-founder and CEO of Revolution Money.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2007/09/24/daily31.html

Comment by aladinsane
2007-09-30 09:10:33

If they do it for 75% less than what the credit card companies currently charge (around 2-3%), what protection will they have from all the losses from FB’s that in utter desperation to keep their houses just a little longer, before getting foreclosed on…

Charge up a storm?

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 10:35:00

Without thinking about their business scheme (er, I mean, plan) for thirty seconds, I am guessing it must involve large up front fees and limited liability provisions that let them slip out the back when losses pile up. It’s the American way!

 
 
 
Comment by Patch Tuesday
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 10:32:47

Beware neoclassical economics fundamentalists who suggest that women scientists are genetically inferior or that shipping more toxic waste to third world countries would make trade more efficient.

Is Summers per chance working as a consultant for the subsidized mortgage securitization GSEs these days? Doing so would make his behind-the-scenes lobbying efforts on behalf of a GSE-engineered bailout more efficient.

Beware moral hazard fundamentalists
By Lawrence Summers
Published: September 23 2007 19:35 | Last updated: September 23 2007 19:35

Central to every policy discussion in response to a financial crisis or the prospect of a crisis is the concept of moral hazard. Unfortunately, there is great confusion in many quarters about the circumstances when moral hazard is, and is not, a problem. The world has at least as much to fear from a moral hazard fundamentalism that precludes actions that would enhance confidence and stability as it does from moral hazard itself.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5ffd2606-69e8-11dc-a571-0000779fd2ac.html

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 10:48:14

Sacramento
UC Regents find new speaker for event
John Wildermuth, Chronicle Staff Writer
Sunday, September 16, 2007

(09-15) 16:10 PDT — Lawrence Summers, the controversial former president of Harvard University, has been replaced as the planned speaker at a UC Board of Regents dinner next week after complaints from faculty members.

“(UC Regents) Chairman Richard Blum and Dr. Summers talked last Thursday and agreed that the regents would have a different speaker,” Trey Davis, director of special projects for the UC system, said Saturday.

Davis was unable to say whether a protest letter signed by more than 300 people from the university system had any effect on the decision to find a different speaker for the regents’ dinner in Sacramento on Wednesday. He referred those questions to Blum, who is out of the country.

Summers, who was Treasury secretary under President Bill Clinton, resigned from Harvard last year after a long-running clash with some faculty members over his questioning whether women might not have the same innate ability as men in disciplines such as science, math and engineering. He also had thorny relations with minority faculty members during his time at the university.

While Summers later apologized for his remarks, which he said were misinterpreted, it didn’t slow the criticism, which continues to this day.

“I was appalled and stunned that someone like Summers would even be invited to speak to the regents,” said UC Davis Professor Maureen Stanton, who helped put together the petition drive. “I think many of us who were involved in the protest believed that it wouldn’t reflect well on the university that he even received the invitation.”

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/09/16/BAULS751G.DTL&tsp=1

Comment by not a gator
2007-09-30 13:34:29

Summers is a meathead. I heard him give a prepared speech that he obviously didn’t even write because he had trouble delivering it. I also heard him speak “off the cuff.”

I guess he’s a real shmoozer because he got to high places by having the right buddies. He was terrible as a university president because intellectuals like college professors gall at the reins held by one they consider to be a mental midget.

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 14:06:53

I personally think it wise to refrain from calling Summers sophomoric names like “meathead” or “mental midget.” It is much better to simply recount the innumerable times he has inserted his foot into his own mouth — his record speaks for itself.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 10:58:29

I would be curious to hear Summers’ argument for how letting implicitly subsidized GSEs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac expand their bloated portfolios would make the mortgage market more efficient? Standard economic arguments can be used to show that insurance markets are generally less efficient when government subsidies are used to engender moral hazard.

On the other hand, maybe efficiency is not always the best objective?

“Let Them Eat Pollution”
- Or is it right to think in $ ? -
Term Paper - Environmental Ethics, April 2002
http://www.grin.com/en/preview/9360.html

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 11:18:51

In 1992, an internal memo of the then-chief economist of the World Bank, Lawrence Summers, was leaked to the public and published in the Economist1 under the title “Let Them Eat Pollution”. The memo propagated that it would be economically intelligent to dump more pollution into third world countries. After publication, a storm of protest ensued and Summers was sharply attacked from various sources, such as Brazil′s then-Secretary of the Environment, Jose Lutzenburger, who wrote: “Your reasoning is perfectly logical but totally insane [...] Your thoughts [provide] a concrete example of the unbelievable alienation, reductionist thinking, social ruthlessness and the arrogant ignorance of many conventional ′economists′ concerning the nature of the world we live in.

Comment by P\'cola Popper
2007-09-30 11:39:15

I remember this one! Hahahhahah!

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Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 12:04:10

Summers is a great diplomat for the economics profession to the rest of the world.

 
 
 
 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 11:12:26

Moral hazard? Don’t get me started.

USAID, HIID, Harvard, Russia, Hayes, Shleifer, and Scandal.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=101674

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 11:14:26

Please continue!

Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 11:53:04

If you have the time here’s the long version…

http://www.dailyii.com/print.asp?ArticleID=1039086

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Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 12:01:13

Thx…

How Harvard lost Russia
By David McClintick
01/13/06

Since being named president of Harvard University in 2001, former U.S. Treasury secretary Lawrence Summers has sparked a series of controversies that have grabbed headlines. Summers incurred the wrath of African-Americans when he belittled the work of controversial religion professor Cornel West (who left for Princeton University); last year he infuriated faculty and students alike when he seemed to disparage the innate scientific abilities of women at a Massachusetts economic conference, igniting a national uproar that nearly cost him his job; last fall brought the departure of Jack Meyer, the head of Harvard Management Co., which oversees the school’s endowment but had inflamed some in the community because of the multimillion-dollar salaries it pays some of its managers.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 13:53:28

I thought Summers said now was the time for Fannie and Freddie to step up to the plate and bail out the mortgage market — never mind the moral hazard issue. It appears that what he says critically depends on the audience he is addressing…

Clinton’s Money Men Sing in Tune With Bush’s
By Neil Irwin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 27, 2007; Page D05

The Clinton administration, it seems, might not have handled the mortgage crisis all that differently from its successors in the Bush administration.

That’s the conclusion one could draw from a panel yesterday where former Clinton Treasury secretaries Robert E. Rubin and Lawrence H. Summers, among others, discussed their thinking on the turmoil in credit markets and the government’s response. While there were some subtle disagreements between the Clinton-era leaders and Treasury Undersecretary Robert K. Steel, who was also on the panel, anyone expecting a clash of ideologies at the Brookings Institution symposium left disappointed.

Instead of bemoaning the fate of people who lose their homes as adjustable-rate mortgages reset, Summers emphasized the risk of doing too much to help people who have made bad decisions.

“There are some people who in almost no credible scenario are going to be able to continue to make payments,” he said, saying that the key is to distinguish between those people and others who might be able to refinance into a mortgage they can afford.

He invoked the failure of Japanese banks to deal firmly with bad loans in the early 1990s, which led to a decade-long recession. “I think there is a real danger we will lurch into a Japanese-style solution . . . and not inflict any distress in order to maintain confidence.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/26/AR2007092602333.html

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 14:03:18

Look who is talking like a moral hazard fundamentalist…

Instead of bemoaning the fate of people who lose their homes as adjustable-rate mortgages reset, Summers emphasized the risk of doing too much to help people who have made bad decisions.

“There are some people who in almost no credible scenario are going to be able to continue to make payments,” he said…

 
 
 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2007-09-30 11:37:56

Benny and the Inkjets

Fleckenstein
http://tinyurl.com/2cpoq8

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 13:36:48

Haven’t these folks heard of the proposal to increase the FHA loan ceiling above $417K? The picture is much worse than they suggest.

Home » Opinion » Letters to the Editor
Speculative lenders don’t deserve bailout
Published Sunday, September 30, 2007

We can understand helping those who have invested a reasonable down payment (15 percent or more) in homes they are living in. However, by allowing the FHA (with its dismal record) to insure subprime mortgages (up to $417,000) with little or no down payment, we are guaranteeing that the speculative lenders of those mortgages will not lose their money.

http://www.islandpacket.com/opinion/letters/story/42118.html

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 13:39:26

Home mortgage crisis requires some serious remedies

Some politicians are recommending a federal bailout of deceptive, predatory lenders. Just as in the disastrous savings-and-loan bailout of the 1990s, they don’t deserve it. Taxpayers, most of whom had nothing to do with creating this mess, shouldn’t have to pay to clean it up.

A bailout only encourages this kind of bad business behavior.

Aggressive regulatory reforms are needed to reduce lending excesses and monitor investors and businesses that have turned home ownership into just another way to make a profit for themselves.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070930/A_OPINION01/709300307/-1/A_OPINION06

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-09-30 13:47:02

The closing sentence in this piece is utterly on target, in a most ironic sense: The subprime market was completely up to the task of self-destructing on its own, with only the slightest bit of help from the invisible hand.

Economic View
Six Fingers of Blame in the Mortgage Mess
By ALAN S. BLINDER
Published: September 30, 2007

SOMETHING went badly wrong in the subprime mortgage market. In fact, several things did. And now quite a few homeowners, investors and financial institutions are feeling the pain. So far, harried policy makers have understandably focused on crisis management, on getting out of this mess. But soon the nation will turn to recrimination — to good old-fashioned finger-pointing.

We don’t have to destroy the subprime market in order to save it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/business/30view.html?ref=business

 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-09-30 19:25:55

JOURNAL
EDITORS’ PICKS
UBS to Report Big Loss Tied To Credit Woes
By JASON SINGER, CARRICK MOLLENKAMP and RANDALL SMITH
September 30, 2007 9:27 p.m.

Swiss banking giant UBS AG, which recently ousted its chief executive in the wake of losses at an in-house hedge fund and defections of top investment bankers, plans to write down as much as 4 billion Swiss francs, or $3.41 billion, in assets, including securities tied to U.S. subprime mortgages.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119118330836544000.html?mod=mktw

Comment by GetStucco
2007-09-30 19:28:44

UBS latest victim of credit turmoil
By Peter Thal Larsen in London and David Wighton in New York
Published: September 30 2007 23:59 | Last updated: September 30 2007 23:59

UBS is on Monday expected to announce the departure of its investment bank head as it warns that it has written off billions of dollars on fixed-income assets, making the Swiss banking group the biggest casualty so far of the turmoil in the global financial markets.

According to people familiar with the matter, the bank is expected to say it has written down its fixed-income portfolio by more than SFr3bn ($2.6bn), triggering a third-quarter loss of at least SFr600m ($516m).

The losses, which far exceed those reported so far by other investment banks, are expected to trigger the departure of Huw Jenkins, who runs UBS’s investment banking business. He will be the second top banking executive to fall victim of the market turmoil. Last month Warren Spector was ousted as co-president of Bear Stearns following the collapse of two mortgage hedge funds the bank managed.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/75399ada-6fa7-11dc-b66c-0000779fd2ac.html

 
 
Comment by GetStucco
2007-09-30 19:30:49

If you believe anyone telling you prices are stabilizing, or even showing signs of stabilizing, you are either on drugs or you have the IQ of a green mango. Prices are now in total free fall, with buyers and competing builders in complete control. The latter is more of the driving force in prices than buyers are now. Here’s a perfect example…

http://www.treasure-coast.us/weeklyupdate09-23-07

Comment by GetStucco
2007-09-30 19:33:44

Disclosure to Ben: This guy has a copyright provision on his page. I will notify him of the post, and let you know if he refuses.

PB

Distribution Notice: Although this page is copyrighted, you may use any part of this page free of charge providing: (1) you send me an email with a link to the use, or you send me a hard copy of the use and (2) you properly credit the use of the material to “Mike Morgan, J.D. - Morgan Florida Real Estate” If you use an excerpt from this page, I reserve the right to add an explanatory comment or revoke permission to reprint.

 
 
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