Upgrades Now Merely The Price Of Admission In Florida
The News Press reports from Florida. “The number of permits issued for single-family homes in Cape Coral sank to 29 in September — by far the lowest in memory, according to statistics released Monday. Unincorporated Lee County, which also handles permitting for the town of Fort Myers Beach and the city of Bonita Springs, issued 76 permits, up from 63 in August. In September 2006, 458 permits were issued.”
“There were 45 permits issued by the Cape in July, and city spokeswoman Connie Barron said at the time that a search of records back through 1995 didn’t turn up any month that slow. Numbers that low likely would have been in the early 1990s when the city had only a quarter of its current population of about 170,000, she said.”
“‘I think the Cape will bounce back, but the numbers in general will stay low’ because of a huge inventory of unsold houses — about 15,000 countywide, more than four times what it was before the market started deteriorating,’ said Jamie Pirrello, president of Fort Myers-based Vision Homes USA.”
The Herald Tribune. “Florida is going to struggle with its housing market for the rest of this year and part of next but, barring an unforeseen disaster like a major hurricane or other catastrophe, the Sunshine State’s economy should not sag into recession, an up-and-coming economist from the University of Central Florida is predicting.”
“‘After enduring a substantial deceleration caused by the slowing housing sector and the financial repercussions of the subprime meltdown and credit crunch, the economy will begin to accelerate slowly in 2008,’ said Sean Snaith, director of the University of Central Florida’s Institute for Economic Competitiveness.”
“Some sectors, such as construction, will take longer to recover. For example, Snaith is predicting that this year and next will be a difficult time for sellers. He said it is akin to the run-up in housing in 2004-05, which created problems for buyers because of spiraling prices.”
“Snaith used the term ‘market karma’ to describe sellers and buyers apparently changing places, but he does not expect the housing market to crash. ‘If you are waiting until this occurs to buy, you will spend the rest of your life as a renter,’ he said.”
The Associated Press. “Sherrill Zenie said all she wanted was a piece of the American Dream, but what she got was ‘a kick in the rear.’”
“Zenie is one of a legion of a relatively new type of homeowner, a ‘flipper,’ who sought fast money by rapidly buying and selling homes to capture a profit on each as prices soared. Speculators who bought multiple homes like Zenie were once a boon to the U.S. economy when they pushed home prices to record levels over a five-year period. Now their unsold homes are the bane of a sickly housing market.”
“‘Nobody is looking, either to rent or to buy,’ says Sherrill Zenie, of Delray Beach, Florida, who is stuck with two unsold condominiums there after profitably selling two others.”
“She owns the condos outright, as well as her own home, part of a vacation home in Vermont. But taxes, maintenance and a home equity credit line cost over $2,000 a month for the two condos alone, a stretch for Zenie, who is out of work on disability.”
“‘I wanted to follow the American Dream,’ she says. ‘I wanted to be an entrepreneur and make some money — not a killing, but some money. Instead, I got a kick in the rear.’”
“Her husband has found a job in another state to help pay the bills. ‘Am I panicking? I would be hysterical if my husband weren’t in Mississippi working.’”
“‘People were buying a condo in Florida, or five condos in Florida before they even broke ground, and before they even had the condo half-way built they would sell them for hundreds of thousands of dollars in profits,’ notes Jim Gillespie, CEO at Coldwell Banker Real Estate.”
“‘The big lesson is that even during hot times, if you’re going to invest in real estate or stocks or bonds, gold or silver, or anything, and you try to time the market and invest with the intent of flipping in a very short period of time, eventually you are going to get burned,’ Gillespie said.”
“Andrea Wolkenberg in White Plains, New York, says the speculative fever was too hard to resist for many. ‘I think you get stars in your eyes, when the mortgage industry is throwing money at you.’”
“She has just rented out two Florida investment units she has long been unable to sell, and took on a third roommate in New York to ease the burden. ‘The condos have really been bleeding me.’”
“Wolkenberg bought the units after making about $200,000 on a Florida preconstruction property. ‘That was September 2005 and I’m still sitting with them. The market tanked hard and fast,’ she says. ‘If the rentals work out, I will consider myself one of the lucky ones. It will make holding on until this market turns possible. Long-term, I could come out OK.’”
“The mention of speculators spurs a flurry of cliches by industry experts: there’s no free lunch, trees don’t grow to the sky, not having a place to sit down when the music stops.”
“‘Sometimes they’re vilified but they shouldn’t be,’ says Barry Habib, CEO of a real estate market information service. ‘That’s the American way. They go back to the Gold Rush.’”
“Speculators ‘add jet fuel’ both on the way up and on the way down, he said. ‘Nobody was saying ‘hey, the speculators were bad’ on the way up, when people were selling their homes and making lots more money.’”
The Bradenton Herald. “The property taxes on Johann Haeussler’s River Club home dropped about $900 this year, but he’s looking for more relief.”
“‘It doesn’t make sense to us. Our taxes were raised two years in a row, even though property values went down,’ Haeussler said. ‘We questioned that the property appraiser’s theory is based on actual sales because no one in this neighborhood could sell their homes.’”
“‘Houses in this area have depreciated considerably in the past 12 to 18 months, as evidenced by the prices that they’re on the market for,’ said Heritage Harbour resident Edward Viltz. ‘I don’t think the current tax assessment is indicative of the environment as it is today.’”
“The reason things don’t make sense might be because assessed values - values for 2006 - haven’t caught up to the sluggish housing market. Even through the first nine months of this year there’s only been a 3 percent to 6 percent devaluation around the county, according to Dale Friedley, a Manatee County Property Appraiser tax analyst.”
“Property Appraiser Charles Hackney expects values to correct themselves somewhat next year, but it won’t be enough to offset the increases of 2004 and 2005.”
“‘A huge correction has to be made,’ Hackney said. ‘Until excess properties are absorbed, we’ll have a problem with the values. Logic tells you we need to have a 20 percent correction to undo what was done during those two years, but does that mean values will go down 20 percent next year? I don’t think so.’”
The Palm Beach Post. “The monthly real estate numbers are out and both the number of homes sold and the median price of homes continue to fall. But inventory is still the story.”
“In Palm Beach County, the number of homes for sale last month rose to a three-year supply at the current pace of sales. A total of 24,428 homes were listed in the MLS.”
“‘With inventory levels at three years, you have to offer the best home at the most aggressive price if you even want to get your home shown,’ said mortgage broker Jim Sahnger. ‘Granite countertops and stainless steel appliances, once thought of as upgrades, are now merely the price of admission.’”
“Yes, it’s a buyers’ market — but, for the most part, buyers aren’t buying.”
“In Palm Beach County, 568 buyers bought single-family homes last month, a 13 percent drop from 655 sales a year ago, according to a Florida Association of Realtors report. August marked the 20th straight month of declining home sales in Palm Beach County, FAR reports show.”
“Single-family home sales in the Treasure Coast fell 26 percent — twice the rate of Palm Beach.”
“In Palm Beach County, the median price of a single-family home dropped 5 percent, falling to $366,200 in August, from $386,000 in August 2006, FAR said. In the Treasure Coast, the decline in median price was more pronounced at 15 percent. The median price fell to $214,200 in August, from $251,900 in the same month of 2006, FAR said.”
“Finally, an answer for why a developer won’t return about $10′million in deposits to buyers of the unbuilt Palladio Terrace condo: Merco Group says it doesn’t have to return the money!”
“Merco Group has been a virtual stone wall when it comes to explaining why it is keeping money from its prospective buyers, even though the company canceled plans for the luxury West Palm Beach condo in January. Buyers have begged, cried and sued to get their money back, mostly to no avail.”
“But in a recent court filing, Merco says that state law allows it to keep deposits for ‘construction and development,’ Merco emphasized.”
“Greg Coleman, a West Palm Beach attorney representing aggrieved Palladio buyers…said Merco thinks it can use deposits for soft costs associated with planning a condo, such as architects and engineers.”
“Big mistake, Coleman said. ‘The law says the money can be used when the construction of improvements has begun. A lot full of dirt is not an improvement. And they can’t have done any improvements because they never obtained building permits,’ he said.”
“Coleman recently added some muscle to a lawsuit he filed on behalf of Andrew Greenberg and Michael Catalano, two Palladio Terrace buyers still owed $99,700 in deposit money. In addition to a charge of conversion, Coleman just amended his complaint to include civil theft, which carries a possible award of triple damages, plus interest and attorneys fees.”
“Coleman said he can’t wait for the day when the case goes to trial and he can show jurors a giant photo of the dirt pile that’s supposed to be the gleaming Palladio Terrace. “
Here’s another economic gem from the Herald Tribune:
‘The coming season — perhaps like no other — promises to test the widely held belief that travel is an American birthright and that the vacation industry is one of the few economic sectors with built-in resilience to the housing bust.’
‘Vacations are recession-proof,’ declares David Denslow, a University of Florida economist and former chair of the Governor’s Council of Economic Advisers.’
‘Vacations are all about entitlement, said Nicki Grossman, vice chairwoman of Visit Florida and president of the Greater Fort Lauderdale Convention and Visitors Bureau. ‘People in this country feel entitled to a break,’ Grossman said. ‘They feel if they don’t get out of their day-to-day, they’ll be no good to anyone.’
‘Even all-out recessions have filtered down to the tourism industry only as the economic downturn was nearing its climax, making the impact minimal, Grossman said. ‘Tourism is the very last thing to give up,’ she said. ‘They will pull out a credit card, thank God.’
“‘Vacations are recession-proof,’”
Is that why in early 2002 I was able to secure lodging in Orlando almost anywhere I wanted for $30 per night? We’re not talking notell motels either. Holiday Inn, Comfort Suites, even Disney resorts were charging $30 per night just to try to fill rooms. I guess he’s right. Vacations ARE recession-poof. Anyone can afford to travel at that rate…it’s just the hotels that can’t stay in business.
I read the vacations are recession proof and almost puked.
Do you realize the last time that was spouted was 1930?!?
Every other time of the economy, they admit vacations are discretionary spending. Now, people should still take time off… but that doesn’t fill 3 and 4 star hotel rooms. That doesn’t feed the mouse.
I’m seeing great deals on hotel rooms right now. That might just be seasonal… but still. Notice that Nevada has broken 5% unemployment. How is that possible if vacations are recession proof?
Now Florida’s is low… but wait. So many of the jobs being lost are 1099’s.
Either that or seasonal or high turnover anyway. Does anyone track Florida waiter/waitress jobs?
Let’s put it this way, I had no trouble getting tables for 24 at the cheesecake factory in Redondo. Tell me that doesn’t say something…
Got popcorn?
Neil
I’d love to meet 24 people in my area who think have some level of financial understanding the way folks do on here. Not holding my breath though.
And I’d like to meet a dozen people in my area…
Isn’t Ben down your way?? I see 3 or 4 AZ posters on here besides you, if I recall correctly.
We went into Red Robin 7 pm Sat. night here in Palm Desert and there was not waiting and the place was not full - unheard of here. And no jabs on going there to begin with - grandson’s b’day and his choice.
I like Red Robin and my kids love it!
I am assuming that I’m not the only one who has received Countrywide junk mail. They tell you to take out a HELOC, and the list of uses for the money: home upgrades, education, TRAVEL. I’ll bet there will not be many people using HELOC money for travel this coming year…
Yup.. I remember I had to go to Kissimmee for some work in Dec. ‘02. I stayed at a cheap hotel for $19 a night. I felt really bad for the owner when he gave me a sob story that he couldn’t break even.
The Tampa newspaper was full of ads after 9/11 each week with super cheap hotels in Orlando. I paid $25 for a Days Inn on I-drive one night in Dec. 2001 and the entire city was dead.
Vacations are one of the first things to go, not the last.
How much money do these so-called economists make to pretend there is no such thing as a budget constraint? Or are they really as stupid as their MSM comments make them appear?
‘Vacations are recession-proof,’ declares David Denslow, a University of Florida economist and former …..”
- Perhaps the real American Dream is self confidence. Mr Denslow is full of it and almost ALL of the ‘experts’ calling for the bottom of the stock market and real estate.
Yes, he has government funded employment.
That is absolute nonsense Ben and sounds to me like something someone would put out to bolster morale in an eroding sector (vactioning to Florida).
It’s incredible. Anyone who has worked one day in tourism knows how fragile the tourist dollar is.
“It’s incredible. Anyone who has worked one day in tourism knows how fragile the tourist dollar is.”
I’m not even in the tourism business, but I know how fragile the snowbird dollar is. If I didn’t have the year-rounders I’d have to close up shop.
And just wait to see what happens to tourism if gasoline prices spike again at some point.
Of course, people won’t stop vacationing en masse — but even a 5% drop in visitors to an area, coupled with 5% less spending by people who are trying to act a little more frugally while on vacation, would resonate in an average beach community.
Christmas 2001 we stayed in a value Disney resort for $54 a night. They usually went for $110. We even got reasonable airfare that I didn’t book until mid Nov. Usually unheard of. It’s coming again. No more heloc’s, and credit cards maxed out. I’m sure there’s no savings to pay for the trips. We’ll see after the holiday season, which is one of the biggest travel seasons of the year. In the meantime start watching for travel deals in Oct, because that will tell us how bad the economy really is.
“Anyone who has worked one day in tourism knows how fragile the tourist dollar is.”
I’ve been saying that for years, but It’s fallen on deaf ears here in Boone. Practically the whole economy of the area is based on tourism. The politicians and businessmen keep promoting tourism despite all the signs that their house of cards is about to come crashing down big time.
Disney still has hotels they built in 2000 (part of the Pop Century complex) that are in cold storage. (The shells are up, but the buildings haven’t been fully fitted and furnished).
I’m sure Disney made the decision to let the rest of Pop rot rather than finish it because of the dot com bust and the 9-11 attacks bringing down the tourism economy.
If you have an open mind, and position yourself in proximity to one of our National Parks, which is essentially the only reason why foreigners come to our country…
You’ll make a tidy living from Memorial Day to Labor Day, catering to their needs, as they’ve got cheap Yankee Dollars to spend.
Think about it, Europeans land in el lay or sf…
They rent a car/rv and head for Yosemite, Death Valley, Sequoia, Grand Canyon, et al, and as they drive they see not a word in their language on any signs, nothing, zip, nada.
They are the “Rich Americans” now.
discussion this weekend about that - folks here think that whiteheads from Canada will save the economy here in the desert - they’re all going to bring their dollars and buy everything here.
But, we’re getting the same thing here in AZ. Sure, tens of thousands of construction workers are losing their jobs, but we still have the Grand Canyon…. and Scottsdale golf resorts.
If the country goes into recession, those Scottsdale golf resorts will be as empty as the Grand Canyon.
Our xenophobic way of life, notwithstanding…
Welcome visitors from overseas with warmth and kindness, and you’ll do just fine.
Plan B is catering to broke Americans
Our xenophobic way of life, notwithstanding…
WTF are you talking about?
All my life, i’ve watched my countrymen never cotton to the idea that there could be other ways of life in the world, aside from ours… (holds up oversized foam finger with single digit, we are the best!)
85% of our citizens have never ventured overseas, and our chauvinism shows.
“85% of our citizens have never ventured overseas, and our chauvinism shows.”
Not really a fair remark. Of that 85%, knock out the poor, another what 20-25%?. Then, knock out those who are wary of encountering racism in Europe or Asia…(Americans of color are not often welcomed on the same footing as white Americans.)
Then consider that no other developed country is as large, and offers such a variety of weather, landscapes,regional differences.
The idea that the National Parks is the only lure for foreigners is a little nuts…You’ve skipped skiing, sailing, beaches, urban centers like NYC, Chicago and SF, regional cooking, Elvis and Nascar devotees, gamblers drawn to Vegas, and of course, shopping. America is on sale…the whole country.
We’ve always been chauvinistic…so what, that’s like criticizing the French for being obsessive about food.
them were good times.. load up and pile into the station wagon and go camping in just about every state park in the Western US at about $5 a day plus 39 cent a gal. gas…. sleep in the car between stops if we felt like it .. groceries from the store and cook on a Coleman stove and wash clothes in a laundromat..
I can’t remember a single hotel stay.. If we did it wasn’t anything worth remembering.
Sure, a vacation is (or should be) an entitlement, imo, but it doesn’t mean anyone is gonna make a dime off of it.
This is similar to how we vacation, except we own our own land. In the past ten years or so, we’ve spent about $500 on lumber, building a small cabin and deck. We only buy lumber when we can’t scavenge what we need or use trees. Our vacations usually involve one or two dinners out, sometimes one of the local attractions or shopping, other than that we just enjoy nature for a week or two.
Fast forward to 2007: Just finished a conference in San Diego at the Loews Coronado and was amazed at the number of young families with 2 to 3 very minor children in tow. And rooms at $200+ per nite. Can’t imagine these X’ers setting up the tent and cooking gutted trout in the frying pan. Besides the lack of cell phone reception, where the hell do you go for that morning latte?
bummer… pay a premium to turn a vacation into something as boringly familiar as being stuck at home.. can’t wait to go and can’t wait to get back.
I prefer the X’ers stay in the $200 a night hotels. In the ‘outdoors boom’ in 2003-2005, those cheeseheads were out camping and screwing up nature for those of us who really enjoy it. ‘Tis easy to see them fools from a mile away - shiny new SUV or pickup (with nary a scratch in the bed), new tents and sleeping bags, and typically a small BOOM when they tried to light up a Coleman lantern. On a Sunday morning, the dumpster was full of boxes and tents left behind by people who ‘tried it but didn’t like it, but will try again next year with newer tent that is easier to pitch’. Oh, I forgot to add the blaring radios all night
Plus, when I business travel, I enjoy staying in hotels filled with hot single girls
Grossman is just another tourist flak who would make Joe Gobbels proud.
Here in the Northeast, the state tourism department’s are crowing about a fantastic foliage season when in truth a summer drought has made for acutely muted and uneven color plus weird patterns of leave drop.
These government parasite dolts will say anything to score their food and lodging taxes.
I’m traveling to southwestern Wisconsin for a short vacation later this week, and already heard from a local source that the tourism business in the area is significantly down from past years. Attendance was so light at their summer festival, they couldn’t even sell enough tickets to the play to cover the play’s costs - and it’s just community theatre.
It doesn’t surprise me in the least. The local energy companies are reporting record highs in delinquent accounts. They’re owed record amounts of money from folks who haven’t been able to keep up with their bills. We’re headed into winter and they’re cutting off gas and electric to people who haven’t been able to pay off last winter’s energy bills.
This is going to be a cold, broke, sad winter for a lot of folks.
Stop at House on the Rock if you’re in the area. One of the best curiosities in America IMHO. I don’t know about the “resort”, but the attraction is still amazing.
My brother and his fiancee want to get married on a beach somewhere in FL or the Caribbean early next year. I suggested this nice new beach-house resort in the Keys that we spent last Thanksgiving at, since most of our family members don’t have passports, and the Keys are beautiful. (Plus I wanted to test-drive my new PADI certification, and I ain’t gonna do it in Tampa Bay).
His fiancee checked out their wedding packages on the resort website, and it the prices quoted looked like a wedding for 40 guests was going to run upwards of $10K. I suggested that she call the resort and hard-bargain, ’cause when I was there last Nov., they were all but begging us to stay for another few nights, and the place cleared out right after the holiday. Sure enough, when she called, they waived site fees, food and beverage spending requirements, and all sorts of other charges. I told her to go for broke, since there is plenty of competition for her money from other local resorts, and her party would fill up a substantial block of rooms. Last I heard, she was going to be able to put together the whole she-bang for under $4K.
What a clown. When the belt-tightening begins, the first thing to go is vacations.
Make me wonder how many desperate FB will decide to go into the bed and breakfast business, and undercut the hotels. Actually, running a good B&B might be the only way to get positive cash flow on a house…
“Make me wonder how many desperate FB will decide to go into the bed and breakfast business, and undercut the hotels. Actually, running a good B&B might be the only way to get positive cash flow on a house…”
In tourist land, many of the B&Bs are up for sale, too. It’s a lot more work and a lot less free time to run a B&B than many of the get-out-of-the-rat-race dreamers ever imagined.
There are quite a few websites offering vacation home rentals direct from owner to renter, many for quite reasonable prices. That’s how I found a 3100-sq. ft. log home on five acres of land in southwestern Wisc. to rent by the night or week. It’s going to cost each of the four of us less than $40 per night to stay in it while we’re at Oktoberfest. The cheapest hotel room in town was $119/night, so of course we rented the log home instead. We stayed in it last year and quite the enjoyed luxurious living on the cheap.
‘Vacations are recession-proof,’ declares David Denslow, a University of Florida economist and former chair of the Governor’s Council of Economic Advisers.”
The scary thing is that this guy is teaching our kids. In the last 20 years or so as a Florida resident, often Disney runs Florida resident special offers. Also, other hotels and attractions would do the same.
Vacations are discretionary. If Dad is a roofer in Ohio, I bet a Disney vacations is the last thing on his mind. “OK, car and house payment….or Disney…hmm, what the heck! Disney it is!!”. I’m not saying that this never happens, just not often enough.
We have nothing in Florida. Very little industry. The term “tourism industry” is misleading. There are spots of high tech stuff, like around the Cape, etc., but not enough to offset the primary service/tourism/retirement base. We/Florida are sooo screwed.
And then we have the U of F, economist jackass. Has this guy ever had a real job?
“Yes, it’s a buyers’ market — but, for the most part, buyers aren’t buying.”
This is my new quote for the entire year. This is classic! How can you have a buyer’s market with no buyers? You can’t! It’s a tanked market. Buyers won’t buy until they see things start to level off. Why would anyone buy now?
An update on my neighborhood in Palm Beach County where the “median” price is still an inflated $366,200…the home that was put up on the market to fly off at $145K is gone but it took 2 weeks. Other homes that were selling well into the 300’s are being listed in the 160’s and up. Anyone priced over $200K is watching the house sit. $366,200 is not representative of what it takes to buy a nice home in Palm Beach County.
Nice update Andy.
By that logic, it could very well be a sellers market too. Woohoo, everybody wins. LOL
“$366,200 is not representative of what it takes to buy a nice home in Palm Beach County.”
Well, it depends on where that “nice” home is. I’d love to buy a nice home in a nice neighborhood in PBC for 366K. However, I just don’t see that happening.
“Well, it depends on where that “nice” home is. I’d love to buy a nice home in a nice neighborhood in PBC for 366K. However, I just don’t see that happening.”
Is Olympia for $317,000 nice enough for you? That’s 4 bedrooms and 2 stories. How about the new Porto Sol community for $299,990? Also 4 bedrooms and 2 stories. How about Palm Beach Plantation for the $290’s? Those are just on the new side. Want an existing home? How about Wellington’s edge for $210K for a single family? How about Village Walk for $255K? What about IBIS for $200K? Granted those are 2 and 3 bedooms. The new side of Victoria Woods for $220K for 3BR and $250’s for 4BR? Wellington Downs from the $240’s?
Am I just too low class for your taste? Are you looking for a full blown McMansion for $200,000?
Bad Andy,
Would you be so kind to e mail me some of those listings. I have not come across anything like that.
We are currently living in Little Ranches and need to find a home by Nov 19 (rental) but I would love to see some of those falling properties.
Here is my e mail:
sunkissedbeach@yahoo.com
Thank you so much.
There’s a lovely home, 4 bedroom, 2600 square feet under air, in the Paseos division of Jupiter Florida on the market for $399K. I’ll bed you could get away with offering $360K in a heartbeat (that is, if you want to catch a falling knife). francotirador, are you only happy with a home next to Tiger Woods?
I saw Tiger’s house on Maui recently. I wouldn’t be happy there. 100s of snorkelers crammed on a party boat pull within a few hundred yards offshore and pretend to care about sea life as they cloud the water with sunscreen and their bloated white bodies.
Not to mention their beer-thickened urine…
That paints a pretty picture.
Sleepless somebody is pulling your chain. Tiger Woods does not have a house on Maui.
Buyers won’t buy until they see things start to level off. Why would anyone buy now?
Because much like the stock market they think they are going to miss something. Wife and I were talking with a young couple (early 20’s) this past week. They were out looking at the model homes and told us how there was this 3% discount for correctional officers. He’s a CO. We tried to tell them that 3% would be good even if they were from Mars. They were so giddy about the $75,000 of last years price and again we told them wait 3 months and get another $75,000 off. They were so caught up with the crap the realtor’s were feeding them. They refused to believe us because we were not-in-the-business so we didn’t know what we were talking about. Wife & I finally agreed no matter what they did it would look good from our house
“They refused to believe us because we were not-in-the-business so we didn’t know what we were talking about. ” . . .
My wife has exactly the same mindset about me . . !!
They refused to believe us because we were not-in-the-business so we didn’t know what we were talking about.
That is key. Sometimes I think folks trust their realtors more than they do their doctor. Oh, and the 3% discount for Correctional Officers is just priceless. Imagine the conversation:
20-something FBs-to-be walk in Open House, greet realtor:
REaltor: And what do you do for a living?
FB: I’m a Correctional Officer, Ma’am.
REaltor: Well, then, today’s your lucky day! We happen to be running a 3% discount special for Correctional Officers, but you have to act quickly, it expires in about 58 minutes…
Same with my cousins. Mid to late 20s. They bought in July.
What do we know, we are not in business.
Andy what neighbor are you talking about?
“Andy what neighbor are you talking about?”
I gave a multitude of neighborhoods in this post. I won’t post my specific neighborhood, but I can tell you that if you pull MLS it won’t be too hard to figure out. Houses built in the late 80’s for the most part. Went well into the 300’s at peak. Today listings in the 160’s to low 200’s are widely available. FB’s still trying to get out credit intact are asking in the 270’s and 280’s for the same house.
Andy. Nice job. You just revealed an RE troll. They always show their hand eventually.
Good job.
Bad Andy, where in Palm Beach County is this neighborhood? I ask because we moved from PBC a little over a year ago, and got $210K for our 2/2 villa (a condo, but just a single-story building, not a high-rise). Needless to say, there were no homes in PBC for under $200K when we left in ‘06…not without wheels attached.
How can you have a buyer’s market with no buyers?
He meant to say “it COULD be a buyers market”. Hopefully most buyers are a little smarter than he is.
Andy;
Good info.
I have the same question, how are they figuring “median”? The same thing is happening in Orlando. Prices are beginning to plummet, yet NARS median is inching down.
Since there have not been a lot of sales since the peak if you do comps, you may come up with an inflated number, although you have to use some pretty old sales.
Thats why I maintain that YOY prices are misleading. Aug 06 prices and unit sales were down from Aug 05, so comparing Aug 07 to Aug 06 is misleading. All prices and unit sales should be compared to the peak in late 05.
The Herald Tribune. “Florida is going to struggle with its housing market for the rest of this year and part of next but, barring an unforeseen disaster like a major hurricane or other catastrophe, the Sunshine State’s economy should not sag into recession, an up-and-coming economist from the University of Central Florida is predicting.”
I guess if you want to be and ‘up and coming economist’ you just need to tell some BIG lies. I lived in Florida for many years and worked in the development community. Florida is toast. This up and coming economist will look like an idiot to most with the year.
My thoughts exactly. That article has so many conclusory, stupid, condescending, and outright airheaded predictions from Snaith that it’s barely readable. My favorite, not directly tied to the housing bubble, is “Snaith thinks that real disposable income [in Florida] will grow an average of 4.7 percent per year from 2008 to 2010.”
The very fact that a person like this is profiled as up and coming, and heads a research university’s “institute for economic competitiveness” means that all near-term hope for regaining sanity, much less economic competitiveness, probably has been lost. Check out all the boards and panels he sits on!
The reliance on “karma” rather than facts and respected statistical analysis is particularly troubling, but in today’s world most professional economists disgrace themselves and their educations on a regular basis. And I’ll tell that fool right now that if it makes economic sense, I don’t care if I rent for the rest of my life.
Right. Record foreclosures, the biggest price drops in the country, people can’t get their deposits back, massive inventory and potential buyers are supposed to be intimidated by a ‘rent forever’ line?
Has anyone noticed that when the bank forecloses (at least some banks) prices get discounted heavily discounted. Chekc out this web site http://palmbeach.expertrealty.com/palm-beach-county-real-estate then look at the houses under Short Sales and Foreclousres. The buttons are located at the top right center of the page.
It is pretty hilarious when an economist keeps saying in so many words “buy now or you will be priced out forever” at a point when even Realtors are too embarrassed to say it.
These shills like snaith are indoctrinating americans to not think for themselves. i’d say they’re doing a decent job of it. Not a lot of folks in my office are outraged over the tanking dollar or the false cpi reports and the rally on WS, while the press couches it in some “the worst is behind us” BS. americans will just accept it as fact.
“These shills like snaith are indoctrinating americans to not think for themselves.”
Well it doesn’t help that for the last 40 years or so we have government schools that have been doing the very same thing.
Let the rattlesnaith know how you feel! You can email the “Institute for Economic Competitiveness” at iec@bus.ucf.edu. Let him know how much you admire his serpentine tongue.
Never one to shy away from confrontation, I sent this email to rattlesnaith:
“If you are waiting until this occurs to buy, you will spend the rest of your life as a renter.”
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20071002/BUSINESS/710020388/1007
Herald Tribune, “The state’s economy pivots on weather”
Mr. Snaith, I have to take exception with your arrogant remark.
You have repeatedly mis-diagnosed the housing market in Florida with your sunny projections. Anyone who followed your advice is likely to be underwater on a rapidly-depreciating asset. Prices will fall much further over the next two years, due to the vast oversupply of homes, as well as downward pressure from REOs and foreclosures. Florida will be especially hard-hit because of the important role that real estate related industries play in the job market.
On an anecdotal note, in my neighborhood of Jupiter, Florida, I see prices collapsing. Many houses have been on the market for more than a year, and the vacant homes are proving to be a community eyesore. My landlord listed the house I am presently renting for $499K; an indentical unit just sold last month for $420K, and a larger home on the water is currently listed at $399K.
For you to assert that “market karma” describe[s] sellers and buyers apparently changing places, but do[es] not expect the housing market to crash,” is a gross fiction. The housing market has already crashed in Florida, and your reputation is close behind.
Regards,
Blah blah blah
seems that our buddy Sean Snaith has a history of sunny predictions that haven’t turned out as well as his hoped-for “Housing Souffle” (he’s the dude that coined the phrase)
http://tinyurl.com/285hp8
most of his comments were about how the California market was just going to settle a little bit, and the market there certainly wasn’t in danger of going over a cliff. market fundamentals are strong, don’tcha know!
he could even have been a FB at one point.. he needed to sell his home in California to move to Florida last summer. maybe he drank his own Kool Ade when he bought in CA.
http://tinyurl.com/2y774c
so Rage, you were right…. he does look like an idiot, and it’s not even a year yet. that f*cktool has barely been working his new gig and living in Florida a year, he has no idea.
Has anyone else heard UCF referred to as “U Can’t Finish?” A co-worker of mine (and smug FSU grad) told me that one. I thought it was rather amusing. No offense to any UCF grads on the blog, of course.
He’s wishing the economy was turning around soon. Just wishing folks.
If some lady can file a $1M lawsuit for a phone being cut in price by $200, what are the folks being undercut by hundreds of K’s going to do in court. Can you spell big LAWSUITS? THis is going to be funny. LOL
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071002/apple_iphone_lawsuit.html?.v=2
“Snaith used the term ‘market karma’ to describe sellers and buyers apparently changing places, but he does not expect the housing market to blah blah.
- I accidently read his name as ‘Snake.’
No, they accidentally spelled it as ‘Snaith’. You were right the first time. Somebody needs to give this up-and-comer his comeuppance.
It’s not me!
Sometimes I think Florida and all of its sleazy residents (not you, Fink or other HBB’ers of course) should be nuked off the planet.
Speculators who bought multiple homes like Zenie were once a boon to the U.S. economy when they pushed home prices to record levels over a five-year period. Now their unsold homes are the bane of a sickly housing market.”
I blame Zenie.
“Sometimes I think Florida and all of its sleazy residents (not you, Fink or other HBB’ers of course) should be nuked off the planet.”
Why not just send the people who bought 12 homes on a McDonald’s salary and the mortgage brokers who gave them loans and send them to an island full of cannibals and film a reality series?
Unfortunately, the cannibals would end up with cash out-refis and teaser rate loans on their huts.
Plus no one wants to eat slime.
TexC- We are being nuked but good more ICBM’s on the way.
Super! txchick’s in a mood!
(sits back with expectant grin.)
But yeah, let’s nuke Florida. Well, okay, not Florida. Palmy likes the place. Hmmm. But let’s nuke somewhere. I’m sure somewhere deserves it.
Actually nuking Florida and sinking it will allow colder Atlantic waters to enter the gulf and reduce the intensity of hurricanes.
Source:
Cracked Magazine
Quote:
#####
Sometimes I think Florida and all of its sleazy residents (not you, Fink or other HBB’ers of course) should be nuked off the planet.
#####
Don’t worry. I think God the Almighty will punish these clowns justly. I would not be surprise to turn on the TV one day and hear the news that there is a massive earthquake happening to the state of the Alligator and the whole darn freaking spaghetti-brain moocha of the state is now 1000 feet under the Atlantic Ocean. Yup, nothing then is left of Florida but the bubbling (Bubble) memory of sweet old “Sherrill Zenie”, a 60-ish year old grandma who is pursuing the American dream, a moist dream for her age to be exact.
Didn’t they bomb Florida into oblivion in Star Trek a few years back?
DS9 or VOY or ENT, I can’t remember and don’t really care…
It was Enterprise.
The state has always been a little wierd little. The further south you go, the more north it seems. Every place else, the further south you go, the more south it gets.
Aw, Chick, you’re so kind today.
When I lived in Fla it looked perfectly normal to me. Of course, I’m from New Orleans.
Roidy
I sometimes wish that we could just saw off FL at the border and send it adrift into the Caribbean. It’s like all of the crap from the East Coast just settles down into this flaccid penis of a state like sediment in a old bottle of Bordeaux. Sometimes I hate that I live here.
Thx TX (for not nuking me with the rest of the FL population); I was AFK all day, so missed this VERY active thread.
And, although I certainly agree with you about some people in FL (I have NO tolerance for people who take advantage of those less well off/educated then they are; IE RE agents), FL is what it is because of the attitude here. That’s what I keep trying to relate to other people who don’t live in FL, it’s NOT what you think it is (for the most part). FL has truly become a suburb of NY/LA, with all the fakeness/pretentiousness/etc, etc that comes with it.
For some of us, it’s paradise. However, as I have said many times before, I often look around me and wonder “Why the HECK are you living here” at my friends/coworkers, etc…
It’s like living in LA and complaining about the fake boobs.. Why would you live in FL if you don’t like the smug/self-absorbed attitude that so many display down here? For me, its a paradise, I like the “city” attitude and grew up with it up north. For others, it’s like a self-imposed hell. I just don’t get it; why do the seniors and others not enamored with the lifestyle stay?
“Speculators ‘add jet fuel’ both on the way up and on the way down, he said. ‘Nobody was saying ‘hey, the speculators were bad’ on the way up, when people were selling their homes and making lots more money.’”
Well, there’s a big lie right there. All over America, decent folks with good credit, downpayments saved and reasonable budgets were locked out of housing by greedy, no-skin-in-game flippers.
They didn’t count. They were just bitter renters.
Flippers and specu-vestors were the A-List.
Public sentiment is tipping, but I remember a couple of years back people would wander here and tell everyone that we’re all just “bitter renters” who can’t figure it out.
Funny thing was, a large percentage of “us” were and are homeowners who are sensible enough to realize how bad for America bubbles are.
“‘I wanted to follow the American Dream,’ she says. ‘I wanted to be an entrepreneur and make some money’”
Did it ever occur to her that you have to actually DO something to earn the “American Dream?” You don’t get something for nothing. And sitting on your fat flipper’s butt waiting for the disability checks and equity to come rolling in don’t count.
Ain’t that the truth. This person is a real waste of space on the planet.
They should make her buy pollution credits to exhale.
What is with everyone expecting something for nothing? Discussion the other night about the high expectations of the young. Used to be when you moved out of home your lifestyle took a dump and you struggled a bit at least when starting out. Now 18 year olds, expect to live as well on their own as they did at home. Mention block and board bookshelves to someone that young and they look at you like you’re speaking a foreign language. Vacations were weekend camping and entertainment was a bunch of us pot lucking it for the evening.
I watched HGTV’s house hunters last night and they had some 20 year shopping for a house with his mother. She owned a cable company where the whole family worked. With her help, he was looking a 250k-300k homes at 3000+sq ft. I couldn’t believe it!! Who are these people, where did they come from! These kids were called silver spoon kids in my youth.
Last night on Hidden Potential (filmed for Oct 1, 2007) parents were looking for a place to buy in Brooklyn for their kids. I think they wanted to spend 1.1M and another 300K to upgrade the place. They felt it would be better than paying their children’s high rents and they could use it for a retirement nest egg. LOL I’m not sure what the daughter did, but the boyfriend was a photographer and needed a studio. The son who was to also live there, needed a recording studio. I’m not sure how old these kids were, but if you’re old enough to live with someone, then you’re old enough to support yourself. I think they just took on 3 dependents for life.
That’s because instead of blocks, which leave cement dust all over the LL’s precious carpet, I bought old directories for 10 cents a piece at the FoL semi-annual booksale to prop up my “board”.
You can get plastic-coated (”oak” design) particle board boards at Lowe’s for not that much. Uncoated is cheaper, but I remember that stuff taking on water and pulverizing as a kid.
My parents always made it clear that crates and boards and used stuff were how you made it through your early 20’s. I also remember how little stuff they had when I was a toddler.
However, I have seen a lot of parents who can’t stand seeing little Janey or Johnny being deprived of anything. Dorms used to have bomb-proof single beds and desk/chairs, with maybe a closet. Now people expect TV’s, kitchen gear (well, the cafeteria’s did stop providing 3 squares and linen service is no more), expensive decor, big closets, etc. Heck, the oldest dorms didn’t even have A/C … even at Harvard. Come on!
Luxury dorms–puke!
And I can’t believe the kids renting whole apts for $800/mo with parental assistance. What is so wrong with renting a room? I grew up in a big family … I like roommates.
I think the parents have a LOT to do with it … like the parents of this kid four years younger than me who can’t hold down a job, quit school, and won’t work more than 10 hours a week … Mommy showed up and decided that his apt (which his GF helps him pay for) was “too small.” Btw, Mommy thinks that his GF wants the family’s money, but after Daddy cut him off, actually the GF was giving him money, or at least loaning it.
The GF is a friend of mine; I think she’s nuts. Actually, she got fed up and told him she isn’t helping with the rent any more. He’s going to have to downsize … whether Mommy likes it or not.
RE: “‘I wanted to follow the American Dream,’ she says. ‘I wanted to be an entrepreneur and make some money’”
And then this POS loser sends hubs off to Mississippi to try to earn some cash to keep the whole rotten sinkin’ mess afloat.
If this dude has some brains he’ll just keep on truckin’ and never come back.
My sentiments exactly HD. This poor guy is in some fleabag hotel wondering why his life is a POS while the brains of the whole operation is sitting on her couch eating doritos, watching her seminar DVD’s and wondering where she went wrong. Eff her, I’d be signing up to crew a yacht or something if I was him.
We don’t know that he hasn’t. She is, after all, used to living in a dream world.
There will be more than one, “loving” spouse, that will disappear out the door “for a loaf of bread”, never to return before this mess is over with:)
Reminds me of kids with a bit of talent who think they’re going to be rich rock stars or pro ball players, not understanding how much talent and luck are really required. Used to be (I thought) that adults outgrew that stage and had a better understanding of how the real world works.
But nope…we’re a nation of 10 year olds. We see it on TV and think “I could do that, and I’d never have to do anything I didn’t want to do ever again, and everyone would wish they were me…because I’m special”.
We’re a nation of sociopaths.
“‘People were buying a condo in Florida, or five condos in Florida before they even broke ground, and before they even had the condo half-way built they would sell them for hundreds of thousands of dollars in profits,’ notes Jim Gillespie, CEO at Coldwell Banker Real Estate.”
“‘The big lesson is that even during hot times, if you’re going to invest in real estate or stocks or bonds, gold or silver, or anything, and you try to time the market and invest with the intent of flipping in a very short period of time, eventually you are going to get burned,’ Gillespie said.”
I thought real estate never went down and you were going to be priced out forever?
How is it that so many people are on diability? Like every article I read, “so so is on disability.” Wha??!
FRAUD.
I’m a bus driver. I have a few hundred passengers who are seriously disabled–cerebrial palsy, double amputees, diabetic kidney patients getting biweekly dialysis, Down’s Syndrome, etc.
There are thousands claiming “disabled” status, however, who get to skate with lower fares (or no fare) and even slow up bus boarding so they can go on a power trip having the bus kneeled or the lift extended for them (some of these folks have been seen running down the street or have jumped into the bus in unguarded moments, but “can’t” get into the bus). Many of them also collect SSDI (and act like playas because they support a bf or gf on that income).
These leeches waste resources and hurt those who actually need them the most by spreading the public resources too thin.
The irony is that I have two or three “disabilities” I could claim to get an ADA pass and ride the bus for free … instead I DRIVE the bus and ride the bus for free.
I have many friends with serious disabilities who hold down jobs and contribute to society: Tourette’s, psychosis (hallucinations), AIDS, CP, Aspberger’s, mood disorders, and epilepsy. Many of these conditions are treated with drugs (often rather expensive ones), but you can’t provide for every eventuality. However, unless you are mentally incapacitated, it’s more about having the will to strive and endure failure until you succeed.
I know this sounds glib … hey, I went through a couple years of unemployment/underemployment and I know motivation made a big difference for me. I also realize that discrimination is a reality, but as I noted above, I have many friends who have overcome such things. They do so by being valuable assets to their employers.
ADA did a good thing by forcing WC access to public buildings and mandating WC lifts on buses, but the sweeping provisions in the law have done more harm than good. There are some areas that literally do not have a public bus because of ADA. The upshot is that the provider is required to provide “equivalent” “access to transportation” (which is actually above-and-beyond door-to-door service, with the driver often playing personal care attendant whether it’s legal or not) no matter what it costs per passenger. This is NOT the case for all other passengers–cost per passenger is very important.
Granted, some people are going to need some more help (see my first paragraph), but it’s clear that the door is wide open for gaming the system. That is what is going on right now.
Btw, all these fatties who didn’t take care of themselves and smoked and overate and now have diabetes want the rest of us to pay for their indiscretions. WHAT?
Look, I don’t do cardio at the gym because I find it fun. I do it so I don’t balloon up like my mother did and risk losing my organs later!
Because disability fraud is rampant. I know of a 30 year-old guy trying to get on it now when he definitely does not need it.
Most of my clients are on disability. Very few have anything actually wrong with them (other than social retardation, terminal laziness, and a total lack of education). Some are bipolar and have 5 or 6 kids who will probably also be mentally ill. See my “I hate FL” post above.
A brief history of the origin of the American Dream.
permits per population and permits per population change- a whole new metric
“Zenie, who is out of work on disability.”…who is stuck with two unsold condominiums there after profitably selling two others.”
“‘I wanted to follow the American Dream,’ she says. ‘I wanted to be an entrepreneur and make some money — not a killing, but some money. Instead, I got a kick in the rear.’”
What part of ‘failed business venture” don’t you understand? Being an entrepreneur involves risk–or didn’t you get that in your 20 minute RE seminar? You made money twice, then doubled down and lost. Too freaking bad. In the future, stick to Bingo.
Also, in my book, an entrepreneur’s goal is to create a sustainable business, one that generates something of value and creates jobs. Speculation is not entrepreneurship.
“‘I wanted to follow the American Dream,’ she says. ‘I wanted to be an entrepreneur and make some money — not a killing, but some money. Instead, I got a kick in the rear.’”
In other words, the American dream has now become making money without actually having to work!
You got that right. That’s why I used to get annoyed at people who said what I do (day trading) is not work. It is work, a lot of work, if you plan to last more than a week at it. If this idiot had done the equivalent of what I do (study the market carefully, both upside and downside and set a stop loss when she entered the “trade” she would not be hysterical now and sending her husband off to work in another state. At 60 years old, she’s on the downslope of her life with him. How sick that he has to work to pay for her greediness.
That’s why I used to get annoyed at people who said what I do (day trading) is not work. It is work, a lot of work, if you plan to last more than a week at it.
I always had this plan to teach myself day trading, but never followed through, because…it’s too much work!
Phillygal brain need a rest.
Chick, my grandfather was a securities analyst. So, I can relate to what you’re saying about studying the market carefully. That was Grandpa’s life.
I agree with phillygal….always thought day trading would be great, but man, you gotta really work AND be on the ball. I’m not sure if I have the time or the energy.
Focus.
It’s the focus part that messes me up.
It’s my life too. Kinda sick when you think about it . . .
Right, philly. Focus is a major challenge for me it seems.
Chick, what’s sick about your life?? The trading?? Something else?? Nothing wrong with what you do, plus you get to do stuff like rescue animals. Would like to be in your shoes.
txchick,
Ok, I’m aware that if I don’t phrase this question carefully, I will get flamed out of the water by probably this entire blog. However, this is a sincere question, and I’m open to any reasoned answer.
From what little I have seen of day trading, it looks enormously complex - not simple at all. So I agree it takes a ton of work. But this is what gets me, many HBBers complain about this society not manufacturing anything useful, and that we’ve regressed to a service economy. In that respect, from what I see, day trading is even worse, because not only does it not produce any valuable product, it doesn’t even provide a valuable service to anyone. It’s just making money by trading electrons.
Again, this is a sincere question. If I’m missing something glaringly obvious, please explain. I’m always willing to learn.
It’s valuable, because it’s hard work.
Jaz,
Agreed, any legal work is better than not working (not working implies leeching off society). My question was why all the animosity on this blog towards jobs that “don’t produce anything” and towards a society that doesn’t produce anything, yet no such animosity towards daytrading? I still don’t see any intrinsic value to it, other than it keeps a person off welfare.
Put another way, the income a daytrader makes comes out of society (through markets everyone here seems to agree are almost meaningless because of how controlled and manipulated they are). What value does society derive from “paying” the daytrader?
Good questions Greg - I was thinking the same thing. One potential value that I see, at least at some level, is that traders help provide liquidity and they also may reduce volatility by taking advantage of pricing/value inequities and thus driving the market to a more accurate/true value - sort of like when Vegas sets a game line too high or low - the big bettors/smart bettors almost instantly drive the line to the ‘correct’ price. It’s a high work/high risk area IMO, but there are many long-term, successful traders. My two cents anyway - nothing against traders, to each their own.
Mags57,
Thanks for the thoughts. I see what you’re saying.
according to the I-phone lawsuit, the flippers of those phones now can’t sell their speculator phones for a profit. Is this the next bubble? Cellphones? I didn’t even think of flipping those, except to flip it open and answer or make a phone call. I bought a cell phone solely for the purpose of using it. When its life is over, its value is zero and I go buy another one.
Its going to be fun to watch these parasites knuckle down and actually sweat and work for a living once all the bubble gravy trains are gone.
I must say that I am ashamed to be an American. I am reminded of the game console frenzy last year. While Asian engineers sweated and in some cases (Nintendo) displayed fantastic creativity, what did Americans do? We flipped consoles during the weeks before Christmas.
A lot of the technology in those game consoles was designed by… wait for it… AMERICANS. I personally designed an interprocessor communications chip for the PS3 when I worked at Conexant Systems… and Analog Devices designed and MANUFACTURES IN USA the accelerometers that make the Wimote so interesting.
America still has a lot of smart people, along with the chaff… did you know that Chinese and Indian chip companies outsource some of their analog IC design to AMERICA? It’s true…. BeCeem is an Indian WiMax chipmaker and RealTek is a Taiwanese UWB chipmaker… both of them have analog R&D in Orange County, California (and no I don’t work for either of them).
If I were the judge in these IPhone lawsuit, after I stopped laughing from the absurbity of it, I would rule it as frivilous, charge her courts cost and tell her to get lost. How can you have $1M damages over a $200 price cut. Fookin’ unbelievable. I believe she needs a Joshua Tree visit from NNVBroker.
If she is damaged $1M for $200, what are those Manteca folks who are down $250K or more going to claim, 1Billion lawsuit each?
And where does it end? I bought _____ 2 years ago and now they dropped the price so I should sue? By this logic, anytime someone buys at the price and the item later goes on sale, we should sue?
“you will spend the rest of your life as a renter”
I’m good with that. You schmuck.
As property taxes soar locally, to cover rising costs, renting looks smarter and smarter.
It amazes me how so few states have a TABOR law like Colorado. I am basically paying the same property tax that I paid in 1999, even though the house’s assesment has increased by about 50% since then.
RE: It amazes me how so few states have a TABOR law like Colorado.
Maine tried.
But…
The national teachers and public employee unions sank big media bucks into the issue, and the socialist voter crowd succumbing to the propoganda killed it.
Then they are getting what they (the socialist voter crowd) are getting what they deserve (high taxes).
TABOR was awesome. One of the great things about Colorado that I miss. Too bad all the tech jobs are gone.
Well, we do have a Democrat governor and state legislature. They would love to repeal TABOR, but IIRC they need a supermajority in the legislature to repeal TABOR, and I doubt the voters will do it on a referendum either.
Ummm… except that TABOR made it impossible for tax receipts to grow at the same rate as the population, leaving local government unable to pay for roads, police, high quality schools and other amenities that a growing population needed, which is why it took an hour-plus to drive to DTC from basically anywhere else in the area and school performance started to tank.
Which… didn’t help keep many of those Tech businesses around.
But Tabor is indexed to population growth and inflation.
And you aren’t going to tell me that traffic isn’t just as bad at any other major metro area.
Renting is willful and transitory while schumuckedness is perpetual curse.
That particular quote really pops the top off the arrogance-o-meter. It would probably hurt this guy’s feelings to know how many out there refuse to participate in a rigged game. Heck, I own - and lately I’m downright jealous of renters. If my month to month costs weren’t markedly lower than rent (and I had somehwere better to go) I’d sell in a heartbeat. Barring that I have no stomach to ever buy RE again - time and this blog have shown me that it just isn’t a good investment relative to other, more liquid, options. Now that RE proponents have resorted to unfiltered emotional pleas to hawk their wares - I’m even more convinced.
As far as property taxes are concerned, you’re always a renter. What the hell kind of communist country is this where you have to rent your own property from the gummint lest they take it away for not helping to pay for the neighbor’s womb-turds to go to their daily re-education concentration camps?
Ok, now I think you need a cookie and milk.
stand by for the rant about the Grim Reaper.
Is it not true though. Try not paying your taxes and see how much you really ‘own’.
course it’s true ..
Then again, we can’t really own anything because we must eventually die.. So, at best, we’re sorta like Trustees or babysitters.
but what’s that old saying.. grant me the wisdom something.
..grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference.
“… we can’t really own anything because we must eventually die …”
In the Grand Scheme of things we’re all just food.
You hit the nail on the head here. In a free society every MUST respect property rights, including the government. No one should be able to “charge” you for something you already “own”.
With that in mind we must carefully consider what “property” we give to the federal government. I say they get to own the borders of our country and thats it. That means that if someone wants to bring goods across those borders the US government has the right to inspect and charge a fee for the usage of *their* property. If the government charges too much then industry will develop inside our country and their “profits/tax revenue” will fall. This is the true free market approach. They don’t own me or my property.
Actually its called Allodial Title of the land and it was repealed I believe in 1913… if you know anything about this country’s history you can imagine why it was this year. This is when the government took ownership of the land and charges rent, or as we know it, property taxes for use of its land. However, some states refused to allow the federal government to obtain ownership of their land. Sadly today there is only one state that still allows for its residents to apply for allodial title.. that is Texas.
Allodial title — US
Not … quite …
interesting not a gator, I guess i was a little off. Thanks for the info.
…’womb-turds’?! Good heavens!
And you got here…how, exactly, AndyinJersey? Did you spring fully formed from your father Zeus’s forehead, wearing ornamental armor and a toga? Or did you arrive all bloody and squalling and womb-turdy like the rest of us?
Jeeze, drink some beer and relax. It’s early, but clearly, you need one.
“Did you spring fully formed from your father Zeus’s forehead, wearing ornamental armor and a toga”?
Damn! That’s exactly how I arrived! No womb-turd here.
LMAO. I’m no big fan of taxes either (the less the better), but I don’t see the solution here. Yes, everyone’s property taxes are in all likelihood too high and/or mismanaged b/c the incentive structure isn’t there in the S&L gov’t, but at some level, and a pretty high level IMO, property taxes are crucial for the shared services that enable the entire system/idea to work (police, roads, etc). Even if you removed the public school system from the equation, what about the basic necessities like a police service? Courts? Who would pay for that?
“Speculators who bought multiple homes like Zenie were once a boon to the U.S. economy ”
Excuse me but this “boon” is a travesty. Personally and socially.
“Now their unsold homes are the bane of a sickly housing market”
Bane rhymes with my sister Jane. I thought she was my bane. But she is trying to sell a condo she paid cash for. She is too “interesting” to read HBB or watch CNBC so she has no idea whats coming. But thats for the California page.
speculators .. boon to the US economy
reminds me of something.. kid breaks a window, makes work for the window repair guy, and so helps the economy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
Exactly. Thanks for the link - that sums up a great point that most people don’t seem to realize. It’s akin to the belief that some have that war is good for the economy. A complete fallacy.
Ditto. Very enlightening link there.
“In the Treasure Coast, the decline in median price was more pronounced at 15 percent. The median price fell to $214,200 in August, from $251,900 in the same month of 2006, FAR said.”
Ouch! That’s got to hurt. People that thought they would be up 50K are down 50K.
“In the Treasure Coast, the decline in median price was more pronounced at 15 percent. The median price fell to $214,200 in August, from $251,900 in the same month of 2006, FAR said.”
And the worst part is up there the National Association of Fill in the Blanks can’t hide behind median any more. Prices have crashed far to quickly and there’s not enough high end stuff to prop up the middle ground.
I am no “up and coming” economist but WTF is this idiot talking about? Growth in income? Incomes are dropping faster than real estate in Florida. 90% of the people I know are dependent on real estate in one form or another. UCF crackhead!!!!!!
I found this article on another blog.
Time to test out that soufflé theory. Sean Snaith, whose sunny soufflé analogy is a permanent fixture in local articles, has to sell his home. The Stockton Record has the dirt:
Some California homeowners, if the Munroe-Hatamiya analysis is correct, are into the same pattern with their home equity. Sure, the Valley becomes less affordable as home prices rise, but the “wealth effect” means people who own homes spend money - home- equity loans being one example - and that helps fuel the retailing and service sectors of the economy. It’s kind of your basic house of cards if Munroe, Hatamiya and a bunch of other economic soothsayers are wrong about the soufflé analysis.
One of them is Sean Snaith, director of UOP’s Business Forecasting Center. If Valley housing collapses, Snaith would suffer some very real economic pain to go along with some of the esoteric economic formulas he and other economists use.
That’s because Snaith has a home he needs to unload. He’s headed to Florida where he’ll take up a similar position at a much larger college, the University of Central Florida in Orlando. He’s been here two years and probably secretly wishes he’d gotten the job six or eight months ago, before the inventory of homes for sale shot up, prices softened and buyers became the market bosses. He will now have a real life opportunity to test the soufflé theory of Valley real estate.
Seems Snaith is involved shall we say. He had the same load of crap out west. It must be because it is different wherever he is.
A hearty and loud F you from all of us “dirty” renters.
Dear Dr. Snaith,
In response to your recent statements about buyers markets and being a renter forever:
(_*_)
Regards,
Roidy
Today’s FLA article has too much red meat.
Philly:
You’re getting close to my kind of breakfast. Beer, red meat…
and a Stoli chaser!
We three are very clearly triplets, separated at birth. As long as you two agree that cotton candy also goes with any meal, that is.
“Andrea Wolkenberg … says the speculative fever was too hard to resist for many. ‘I think you get stars in your eyes, when the mortgage industry is throwing money at you.’”
See, I keep my little beady green eyes all squinted up with suspicion, and that way those pesky stars don’t get in them.
As a result, I am not presently carrying TWO Florida condos, sharing my bathroom with 3 strangers, or saying to reporters in a voice filled with hopeful desperation: ‘Long-term, I could come out OK’.
See, I keep my little beady green eyes all squinted up with suspicion, and that way those pesky stars don’t get in them.
Yep, me too, unless I unleash the laser lights and flame the hairs of those to close : )
Wow! You’ve got the BEST equipment!
“‘I wanted to follow the American Dream,’ she says. ‘I wanted to be an entrepreneur and make some money — not a killing, but some money. Instead, I got a kick in the rear.’”
“Her husband has found a job in another state to help pay the bills. ‘Am I panicking? I would be hysterical if my husband weren’t in Mississippi working.’”
“‘People were buying a condo in Florida, or five condos in Florida before they even broke ground, and before they even had the condo half-way built they would sell them for hundreds of thousands of dollars in profits,’ notes Jim Gillespie, CEO at Coldwell Banker Real Estate.”
“‘The big lesson is that even during hot times, if you’re going to invest in real estate or stocks or bonds, gold or silver, or anything, and you try to time the market and invest with the intent of flipping in a very short period of time, eventually you are going to get burned,’ Gillespie said.”
This is a good example as to why I don’t have much optimism for Florida or any place in a similar boat. WHo is going to buy all of these condos? Florida is for all practical purposes a Third World country complete with the corruption and crime you find in such places. Florida, like most of the USA, doesn’t have the industries or job market to support prices at their current levels. When you consider all of the overbuilding and fraud in the state, it’s easy for FL real estate to fall 90%+ in most areas. A lot of people think that FL is good because they have no state income tax and retirees will flock there. What they don’t get is that simply because a state has no income tax doesn’t mean that the cost of living or taxes are low nor does it mean that you will have more personal freedom there, and given the problems in the baby boomer class, I don’t think many boomers will retire at all. Let that upcoming ‘economist’ think about that.
Florida is for all practical purposes a Third World country complete with the corruption and crime you find in such places.
Didn’t Tom Tancredo get into hot water for saying something like that (btw, good for him).
Yeah, he did, but the PC police chased after him. Truth is tough for the diversity crowd sometimes.
I haven’t done the math, but to me it seems like the PITI cost of a 500K-700K home in Florida would pretty much offset any benefit from no income tax.
“She owns the condos outright, as well as her own home, part of a vacation home in Vermont. But taxes, maintenance and a home equity credit line cost over $2,000 a month for the two condos alone, a stretch for Zenie, who is out of work on disability.”
Funny how no one questions this. No, she doesn’t own them outright, she owns them via a line of credit on another property, that she probably doesn’t own outright either. With this mentality, it’s easy to see how people can wind up under-insuring, if they’re insurance these 2nd and third homes at all. If you had a regular mortgage, the lender would want to see that THEIR asset is insured. With these HELOCs and what not, they just give you unsecure money and you decide how you want to spend it, DIsney, SUV, uninsured house, doesn’t matter. When this is all said and done you’ll never see HELOCs again, at least not for another 80 years. 20 years ago if you got a home equity loan, if you could get that, you had to show proof of what you were going to spend the money on and the lending would be approved or rejected based on what you were going to buy with the money.
Man, there is nothing but crazy shite coming out of people’s heads lately!
‘Grossman said. ‘Tourism is the very last thing to give up,’ she said. ‘They will pull out a credit card, thank God.’
No, no—I shall disagree with you, grossman. I am sure that for many people having food to eat will become quite attractive at some point, maybe even more attractive than a trip to Disneyland.
Disneyland will probably survive (it is mostly dependent on local visitors).
Walt Disney World on the other hand, is not surrounded by a megalopolis of 20+ million. Plus its business model is heavily dependent on booking tens of thousands of overpriced rooms at its “resorts” and filling its many dozens of also overpriced on property restaurants.
If you like Disney vacations, there might be some good WDW deals in the next few years. I can definitely see them discounting to steal business from the off property hotels and restaurants.
Oh. Thank you.
I’ve never been to either one, and I’m probably not going to. I can’t stand giant lines of people. Come to think of it, I can’t really stand people.
I do love cotton candy, but I just bought myself one of those little machines that make it, on eBay, a few months ago, and then I went and bought a 25 lb bag of cane sugar at Costco.
Good times!
My parents abhorred crowds of people. And that’s why little Slim never got a trip to Disneyland/World like the other kids.
And how do you feel about that, Slim?
Really, I want to know. My parents, well, how to begin…
anyhow I never got a trip to Disneyland or World either. In fact, a trip to the ‘big town’ was kinda an exciting event. (The ‘big town’ still doesn’t have one traffic light, to put things in perspective. This is in ranch land Utah, in all the pretty red rocks.)
And now I’m a grown up girl and I don’t want to go to Disneyland anymore. Sigh.
I better go eat some cotton candy and cheer up.
My parents never took us to Disney either. We slept in the car in campgrounds and visited glassworks and battlefields and ironworks that had been turned into state parks before spending the week with the grandparents.
Don’t miss it, actually.
Holy diabetes!
You and Slim both are deprived. Everyone should visit Disneyland at least once. Don’t be so weird.
Disneyworld = Overpriced swamp vaction.
Veering dangerously off topic…..
You would be surprised how many adults visit Disneyland and Disneyworld without offspring. And many times the offspring are practically adults (like mine), and Disney is their ultimate favorite vacation.
I am amazed at the volume of people that go to Walt Disney World for their honeymoon. It is a HUGE volume.
If you don’t like people, try going right after schools start back. Most people don’t like to pull their kids out of school for vacation right after school starts, so most vacation places are at their lowest volumes in Sept and late Jan/early Feb (the first two weeks of December are good too).
Its not just the Honeymoon. Many even hold their weddings there.
The week after Thanksgiving up to the week before Christmas is a great time to go. Also I am one of those adults that enjoy Mickey’s house.
I can’t stand giant lines of people.
If you go in the off season the lines are pretty short.
Come to think of it, I can’t really stand people.
Oh, well, nevermind
I went to the Magic Kingdom for the first time when I was 23. It was hot, crowded, the food sucked, and nobody told me that they don’t sell alcohol there. I actually cried. It was the worst place ever.
They sell booze at the other parks. Epcot even has a wine festival. But for some odd reason they have chosen to keep Magic kingdom and Disneyland in Anaheim alcohol free. This a frequent and heated topic of discussion on the Disney fan sites.
I’d rather spend a day with Al Sharpton than at a Disney anything. Crowds of uptight parents followed by whiny chilluns would make me insane.
And a day with Al wouldn’t?
We’d never agree politically, but I think he’d be an entertaining friend.
As I said above, you would be surprised at the demographic mix at Disney. When you think about it, Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Public from Topeka, Kansas are not likely to spend $400 a night to stay at a Disney deluxe hotel. I really believe that these days that Disney is close to shunning that demographic (which in general does not have deep pockets), in favor of young adults.
Both Disney resorts have areas called “Downtown Disney” which have very expensive restaurants, sports bars, nightclubs and even a full time Cirque du Soleil (In Orlando). Walt Disney wouldn’t recognize Disneyland if he saw it as it is today.
In other words: the all hat, no cattle crowd.
Let them spend themselves into oblivion! Lol!
What’s up with the Kansas put down? I grew up in Kansas. I and my relatives have traveled the World, and I know a lot of people, relatives and friends that could Most likely by and sell You a thousand times.
Kansas may not be a Tourist Trap, but many smart, intelligent, and well traveled people live there. A persons, Wealth, Intelligence or Lack Thereof have nothing to do with where they live.
It wasn’t a put down. I used the Kansas family as an example of a wholsesome, average family. My point is that Disney is targetting dual income dinks, as opposed to traditional families. Of course, they don’t have anything against families with kids, provided you have 5K to drop on a week long vacation, with a suite at the Grand Floridian. If not, you can take your business to Kissimmee.
WDW already has special deals for Florida residents, generally from Sept-April. I find it to be a good place the few times I’ve been, but as far as being a good value, that’s debatable. I stayed in the Port Orleans resort this summer, and it had the amenities of a Ramada Inn at 2x the price.
That’s too funny (b/c it’s true). I’m half a DINK equation and I was just thinking the other day that WDW would be a good trip this fall/winter. I haven’t been there since they opened all of those other parks and was thinking that it the trip had potential (short flight from DC area, warm weather, kids in school, etc). $5K ain’t gonna happen though.
I was at Disneyland just this last weekend. Second trip of the month of Sept. actually. Our annual passes expire mid-Oct, and we’re not going to be renewing until Spring.
Heck, who am I kidding. I barely made it 3 months this summer without a trip to the mouse house. I’ll be back out there early Dec or early Jan at the latest.
I don’t drink alcohol, I don’t smoke, I don’t gamble, I don’t buy expensive clothes, I don’t eat fancy and expensive meals, I don’t buy a new car every 2 years, I don’t upgrade my gadgets every couple years (I’m probably the only 40 year-old in the country that has never owened cell phone, a flat panel tv or an SUV). My PC is 5+ years old, and I’ve bought 2 computer games in the last 2 years. My last game console was an Intellivision back in the ealry 80s.
My one vice is Disneyland.
Anyway… my two trip in September, Disneyland was fairly crowded. This is the off season so it is light compared to peak times. At Disneyland there most rides were walk-on on Friday and 20 min or less wait for Saturday. CA Adventure had longer waits, but they were running reduced capacity.
All-in-all, no signs of disaster in park attendance.
All-in-all, no signs of disaster in park attendance.
The Annual Pass program will keep it that way. I have heard that there are as many as 600,000 Disneyland/ DCA Annual Passholders, and that on any given day, half of those in attendance in the Anaheim resort are AP’s.
The Deluxe AP is a bargain for locals. If they were to use it on average once a month, the per day cost is about $20. What else can you do all day in LA for $20, other than go to the beach (and that is not a year round activity).
“What else can you do all day in LA for $20, other than go to the beach (and that is not a year round activity).”
Bah. I’m from Alaska, but spent 4 years in LA. I went to the beach all year long. After Sept. it is GREAT. Nice out, but none of the locals goes to the beach. It could be 70 out and I would have Corona del Mar all to myself.
I also used to ski in the Los Angeles mountains. That was fun (you had to get there right after the snowfall and before it melted). Hiking and biking in Silverado area was a good time, too. I have to confess, I never went to Disneyland… always found more fun stuff to do with what time I had free.
Bah. I’m from Alaska, but spent 4 years in LA. I went to the beach all year long.
Well, I’m not from Alaska, butI never found the beaches all that appealing in the winter (at least not for swimming).
DL is not everyone’s thing. I am sure that there are millions in SoCal who have never been there. But it is special for enough people (21 million clicks last year per Darrell) that they have announced that they are going to spend 1 billion dollars to improve the second park (California Adventure), and there is a potential 3rd park in the future. I am sure that they are looking forward to the 30 million per year mark someday.
600K APs is about right, and word is that they average 10 visits (defined as days you enter the park) each. That accounts for 6 million annual visits. But, DLR is pulling 21+ million visitors a year.
Yes, there are days where half the people in the park are APs, but during peak times it is way less. “average” would be about 25-30% APs.
Oh… and those long ago days when a DAP was only $200. Heck when I got my first AP 4 years ago it was $220 for a Premium (no blockouts, free parking, 10% discount on merchandise and 20% on food). Now it is like $360 for the PAP and $250 for the DAP (blockout days, no free parking, and only 10% off food).
AP prices have gone up 50-60% in the last 4 years, but they are selling more than ever.
And with awesome attractions like the Finding Nemo overlay of the old sub ride (not to mention the rumors they plan to spend $1 billion fixing DCA), I have a feeling pirces will go much higher and passes will keep selling.
Disneyland is my addiction.
And with awesome attractions like the Finding Nemo overlay of the old sub ride (not to mention the rumors they plan to spend $1 billion fixing DCA), I have a feeling pirces will go much higher and passes will keep selling.
Another heated topic at sites like laughingplace and micechat. The fans whine and complain, but they keep going (and spending).
My one vice is Disneyland.
You have plenty of company. You are proably familiar with the fan websites that exist out there.
I wonder if anyone has done a dissertation on this. People who just love to go to Disneyland.
Oh…. the debates I had when CA Adventure opened… Wasted MANY a man-year on those discusions.
Hi Darrel,
Disneyland is my vice (premium passport holder) also along with comic books.
My haunt as a kid, was Knott’s Berry Farm…
We’d go there every other sunday for chicken dinner~
I must have seen Marty Robbins dozens of times @ the roundup theater…
My parents took all of us kids to Knott’s. My dad was really into the old west and enjoyed the park. He also liked Marty Robbins. We grew up listening to one particular album called Gunfighter Ballads and Trail Songs
We ran into several people in Hawaii who wanted to go to Florida. When I asked the obvious question “why?”, they told me Disneyworld. I suggested Disneyland would be closer with better weather but apparantly Disneyworld is better. I have no idea why.
This might be too early to say, but has anyone noticed the stocks today? Yesterday it seemed like the name of the game was to ignore all the bad news and pretend nothing ominous was happening all around them.
Looks that is not the case today. Down 42 pts so far…
Gold is down 3% as well and the dollar is up. People are taking their profits.
LMFAO…A foreign war; $82.00 per barrel oil as this country heads into winter fuel oil heating season; the dollar dances with death; record RE foreclosures; a trillion $$$ worth of mortgage re-sets this month; Congress with an 11% approval rating; and the stock market is @ 14000.
This country is fookin’ wacked in the head.
One thing to consider is that the Dow components are global corporations. Most do the majority of their business outside the US.
“‘It doesn’t make sense to us. Our taxes were raised two years in a row, even though property values went down,’ Haeussler said.
But it makes plenty of sense to politicians!
F.Y.P.
“But it makes plenty of CENTS FOR politicians!”
Which is exactly why no one should be counting on much of the way of property tax cuts going forward. Even if they reduce assessments they’ll just up the levies. It is not like state/county/city gov’ts are going to get cheaper to run. Just the pension obligations (across the nation and growing fast) alone will ensure that.
Actually, it does (or can) make sense. Government expenses don’t go down just because housing prices do. Unless government expenses are growing at a slower rate than the tax base is expanding, it’s only reasonable that taxes would go up.
I’m going to Disneyland (been to Disneyworld). Will have fun. But not to flip So Cal houses. Going to do more normal stuff. Doesn’t involve spending money I don’t have. Visit a friend. Do a project. Sightsee. Etc
There is a phenom I have noticed that I call “Disneyland Nostalgia”. It affects adults who as kids grew up in SoCal and who visited Disneyland often, and then moved away upon reaching adulthood.
housing numbers are out:
Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) — The number of Americans signing contracts to buy previously owned homes fell more than forecast in August, another sign the housing recession will persist.
“The existing homes market is now in freefall,” said Ian Shepherdson, chief U.S. economist at High Frequency Economics Ltd., in Valhalla, New York. “The downside from here is still substantial.”
http://tinyurl.com/yqlajk
Valhalla?
Cue up some Wagner~
Der Fliegende down market
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0dX0jwlork
I think you’re on to something with Wagner, Aladinsane. However, I think your selection is off. My interpretation of the data yields this selection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLRj5erjhP8
I love the smell of Napalm in the morning…
30 economists predicted an overall decline of 2.1% - and one even thought sales would be up 3.4%? Gee whiz, who was that guy? At any rate, the 6.7% m-o-m decline itself sounds shallow - and won’t the August turmoil really not show up until the October numbers?
“The existing homes market is now in freefall,’
What does this mean?
Now the fun begins! Humble appologies if this is a repost–I missed it.
http://tinyurl.com/2y8we8
Monday, October 1, 2007 - 5:34 PM EDT
Home sales subject to new laws
South Florida Business Journal
Beginning Monday, buying a home in Florida comes with new rules that are expected to create more transparency in the lending process while they require out-of-state title agencies to follow the same rules as agencies in the state.
Under Senate Bill 1824, powers have expanded for law enforcement to combat mortgage fraud, officials with the Florida Association of Realtors said. That includes any errors made in the lending process that could be tied to an intent to defraud.
Also, lenders are now required to disclose to borrowers in writing how much they are paying mortgage brokers. At the same time, borrowers now will receive documents - called good faith estimates - that would disclose all possible fees involved in a mortgage, including those charged by the lender, mortgage broker, title company and any other third party.
And if a loan changes for any reason, the borrower must be notified no later than three business days before the actual closing. The broker is required to prove that the notice was provided and that the borrower accepted the new terms. (Article cont’d)
Soooo…how will this impact the industry and/or prospective purchasers?
And if a loan changes for any reason, the borrower must be notified no later than three business days before the actual closing. The broker is required to prove that the notice was provided and that the borrower accepted the new terms.
Are people going to start reading these documents just because they were provided 3 days in advance?
Or instead are we going to start to hear about how 3 days is too short and there was not enough time to find another mortgage and so they felt pressured to sign anyway even though they knew they could not afford the mortgage under its new terms?
I don’t know anything about Florida law and haven’t been to a closing in a while, but isn’t all these fees and other stuff on the HUD-1 that buyers and sellers have to sign??
The fact is, most of the people who are f—-d today *weren’t* investor. An investor is someone who takes a portion of his assets (or other people’s money!) and takes a calculated risk, and is prepared to lose it all if necessary.
These people were either gambling with the roof over their heads, or cheating and using laws favoring second home ownership to assume financial responsibility for a property (often with some degree of fraud–whether stated income or their intent to live there to get a FHA mortgage) with no ability to recover if things don’t go well. (Other than to declare BK or ask for a handout.)
That’s not “investing”. So any rules about how to “invest” don’t apply
This is exactly why the housing crash will be much worse than the dot com bubble. In dot com people only lost their extra cash. Investors that had bought on margin lost too, but not more than double their own actual cash.
The crazy financing of today’s mortgages is just like the crazy marginal lending in the stock market of the 1920s which caused the stock market crash and the great depression.
As a result, if housing values sink much more people can lose ten or twenty times their actual cash.
Just what passes for the American Dream, version late 2.007?
“‘I wanted to follow the American Dream,’ she says. ‘I wanted to be an entrepreneur and make some money — not a killing, but some money. Instead, I got a kick in the rear.’”
aladin, obviously, you’re just supposed to know what it is! Just fill in the blanks with whatever. The MSM sure won’t spell it out for anyone.
My American dream is to get to kick all these flippers in the rear, tell them to get out of my home state and go back north where they belong, bulldoze their ugly cookie-cutter subdivisons and replant them with scrub pines, oaks, cypress trees, and palmettos.
Just west of my Florida property (east of me are about 40 Rydex homes listed in MLS for 6 months or more. All nearly identical, in a development of about 150 homes)….just West of me is a 75 acre empty lot where that was bulldozed to make room for some housing development. There’s no development coming.
Now I hate to tell private landowners what they can do with their land (don’t get me started on “Wetland”!), but I wouldn’t object if the County made them replant the trees if they decide to abandon the project all together. I can’t imagine them starting construction any time soon.
My wife calls them weed farms, and we have several around us.
The industry “experts” offer up tanstafl, money trees and musical chairs…
Yes, we really are the juvenile state of America…
“The mention of speculators spurs a flurry of cliches by industry experts: there’s no free lunch, trees don’t grow to the sky, not having a place to sit down when the music stops.”
And the moon is a harsh mistress (tanstafl).
“The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress” sci fi novel by Robert Heinlein.
Over the last 10 months I have been recieving MLS info on SFH’s homes in the St Augistine area. The Square foot price (including lot)has remained at + $200 minimum regardless of the area. These are cinder block construction ranches that average 1750 sq ft that are not on the water and do not have swimming pools. Seems expensive - unless St Augistine is different. Anyone from that area have any insight. Had always planned to retire in that area but things are out of my pay grade at $200 per. Good quality homes/good schools/sought after area here in Va Beach are under$150 per and overpriced.
Sorry,don’t know anything about St. Augustine, but Va Bch is not only overpriced, but extremely overbuilt too. It seems due for a hard fall. I get there about once a year or so and there is always new construction going on even though there is no significant upswing in population or employment.
Financial Menstrual Period 24/7
“She has just rented out two Florida investment units she has long been unable to sell, and took on a third roommate in New York to ease the burden. ‘The condos have really been bleeding me.’”
“‘After enduring a substantial deceleration caused by the slowing housing sector and the financial repercussions of the subprime meltdown and credit crunch, the economy will begin to accelerate slowly in 2008,’…….”
Hmmm, substantial deceleration… I can’t seem to be able to form a mental picture of this. Anybody got any examples that would help?
Try thinking about the safety tests involving running cars full speed into brick walls with dummies in the seats…
Make sure the throttle is fully open as the car approaches the wall.
Car hitting a brick wall.
I just read this and I’m flabbergasted:
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10095.html
With all the talk about these disabled people working as real-estate flippers I decide to read the rules on “working” and collecting SSD!
You can! You can receive FULL BENEFITS and work for 9 months to see if “you’re ready to work again”
What a racket! I need to get a more aggressive accountant. Maybe I can stop “working” while still managing my “C” corporation, and then 9 months a year try to work again!
Read it again, Reuven, you can go back to work for 9 months and then lose your disability check, but you keep your medical benefits.
I am not kidding.
And you do realize that you can get on SSD for things like “Depression”!
and they pay for you to take a TAXI to work!
Snaith, according to Orange County Property Appraiser, paid $570k in 2006 for what was bought for $295k in 2002.
That’s one helluva $275k souffle!