October 5, 2007

Bits Bucket And Craigslist Finds For October 5, 2007

Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.




RSS feed | Trackback URI

257 Comments »

Comment by Neil
2007-10-05 05:17:59

Am I the only one confused by the Miami Valley closing on a Thursday? That breaks the pattern of Friday closings by the FDIC. Is something going on that I don’t know about?

Got popcorn?
Neil

Comment by Gwynster
2007-10-05 05:51:50

You’re up early Neil!

Yep, the trash goes out on Friday as the saying goes. Makes you wonder what’s coming today.

Comment by Neil
2007-10-05 07:59:41

Yea… I’m having to do two jobs at work due to a coworker’s vacation. ;)

But what is going to happen today? I have not one clue.

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by hd74man
2007-10-05 06:46:30

It’s a Columbus day weekend Friday thru Tuesday.

Give’s the broom sweeper’s more time to clean up the mess.

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/miamivalley.html

 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2007-10-05 05:22:25

Story in the Voice of San Diego on changes in rental screening:

http://tinyurl.com/2wjhsv

“As the tenant pool swells with ex-homeowners, however, industry experts say landlords are beginning to show flexibility, as long as the tenants have relatively good credit besides the foreclosure.”

“To companies like On-Site.com, an online credit screening service for property management companies and landlords, those rising foreclosure numbers represent a largely untapped pool of potential renters. In the last two weeks, that company has unveiled a new feature that separates a foreclosure from the rest of a tenant’s credit report. If the prospective tenants have otherwise good credit and a good rental history from before they bought a house, the report reflects that.”

There’s been a lot of discussion about what hurdles those in foreclosure might face when trying to rent an apartment. This story begins to provide some answers. It appears that landlords are modifying rental standards to better assess risk instead of just blindly relying on a credit report. Imagine if home loans the past few years had used a similar approach (i.e., ability to repay versus blind use of FICO scores).

Comment by PoodlePoodle
2007-10-05 05:26:56

As much as I hate my apartment I’m glad we have a two year lease.

Comment by arizonadude
2007-10-05 06:20:50

Did you guys see the crooked jobs report this morning? Somewhere 89000 jobs appeared out of thin air last month and the previous month all of a sudden became positive from a negative 6000.This is such bullsh@T. The government is totally manipulating any number to keep the stock market up.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-05 06:34:11

All the cards have been dealt, in this house of cards…

They’re bluffing.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-10-05 06:55:13

And look which sectors added jobs….

Healthcare - yeah, that’ll help bring the cost of living down
Government - you know where that’s headed
Professional Services - most likely more lawyers

Mfg., retail, construction, financial - all down.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Hoz
2007-10-05 07:48:34

Layoffs in the Health care industry since December 29,2006 to October 5, 2007

96 companies. 12,000+ workers. mostly medical practioners

Alameda County Medical Center June 28, 2007
Alcon Laboratories Inc. July 28, 2007
Allina Health Systems January 30, 2007
American Medical Response, Inc. February 14, 2007
Bay Care Health System March 31, 2007
Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Minnesota February 12, 2007
BlueCross BlueShield of South Carolina February 9, 2007
Bluewater Health January 27, 2007
Boston Scientific Corporation July 20, 2007
Boston Scientific Corporation January 9, 2007
Cambridge Memorial Hospital February 1, 2007
Carecor Health Services October 1, 2007
CCS Medical Inc. July 26, 2007
Central Vermont Medical Center October 2, 2007
Centura Health June 19, 2007
Children’s Hospital June 19, 2007
Cigna Corporation January 26, 2007
CIGNA Corporation February 16, 2007
CVS/Caremark Corporation April 4, 2007
Cyberonics Inc. August 22, 2007
Cyberonics Inc. May 1, 2007
DeKalb Medical Center Inc. March 22, 2007
Detroit Riverview Hospital May 10, 2007
DeVilbiss Healthcare September 28, 2007
Emageon Inc. July 2, 2007
Enloe Medical Center January 12, 2007
Enloe Medical Center March 13, 2007
Enterprise Universal Inc April 11, 2007
Exempla Healthcare June 19, 2007
Extendicare Health Services Inc. April 3, 2007
Fulton-Dekalb Hospital Authority June 22, 2007
Good Samaritan Clinic July 9, 2007
Grady Health System March 15, 2007
Gwinnett Hospital System, Inc. June 30, 2007
Hawaii Medical Center January 30, 2007
Haywood Regional Medical Center August 8, 2007
HCA Inc. February 2, 2007
HCR Manor Care Health Services July 10, 2007
Invacare Corporation January 18, 2007
Johnson & Johnson April 4, 2007
Kaiser Permanente September 29, 2007
Kootenay Boundary Regional Hospital April 11, 2007
Landmark Medical Center April 5, 2007
Liberty Healthcare Corporation January 25, 2007
London Health Sciences Centre March 28, 2007
M-Plan Inc. September 7, 2007
Martin Memorial Health Systems, Inc. September 6, 2007
McLaren Regional Medical Center August 13, 2007
Medco Health Solutions, Inc. September 7, 2007
Medical Transportation Management Inc. March 1, 2007
Medtronic Inc. January 25, 2007
Medtronic Inc. March 6, 2007
Medtronic Inc. June 1, 2007
Medtronic Inc. June 20, 2007
Medtronic Inc. September 5, 2007
Memorial Hermann Healthcare System January 18, 2007
Misys plc August 23, 2007
Mount St. Mary Hospital June 14, 2007
MSA Manor June 22, 2007
Nanaimo Seniors Village May 10, 2007
Nationwide Mutual Insurance Company April 5, 2007
Northeast Health February 28, 2007
Ottumwa Regional Health Center May 1, 2007
Pascack Valley Hospital June 1, 2007
Regional Medical Center August 29, 2007
Regional Medical Center of San Jose August 29, 2007
Retreat Healthcare June 16, 2007
Richmond University Medical Center June 5, 2007
River Edge Behavioral Center May 19, 2007
Robarts Research Institute April 12, 2007
Salina Regional Health Center August 30, 2007
Sarasota Memorial Hospital July 7, 2007
Sault Area Hospital January 20, 2007
Select Medical Corporation August 13, 2007
Simpe Q Care Ltd. June 1, 2007
Sisters of Providence Health System May 4, 2007
South Victoria Home Care Society September 12, 2007
Southern Illinois Healthcare Foundation August 12, 2007
Southwest Illinois Healthcare Foundation June 28, 2007
Southwest Washington Medical Center July 4, 2007
St. Mary’s Hospital January 19, 2007
Sutter Medical Center July 30, 2007
Swedish Medical Center July 25, 2007
TeamHealth Inc. July 9, 2007
Temple University Health System February 17, 2007
Tenet Healthcare Corporation September 6, 2007
Triad Hospitals, Inc. June 20, 2007
Triumph, LLC April 17, 2007
Tufts Associated Health Plans, Inc. January 31, 2007
Universal Health Care April 14, 2007
University of Colorado Hospital June 7, 2007
ValueOptions August 31, 2007
Varian Inc. April 30, 2007
Wellpoint Inc. August 3, 2007
Westerville Center for Rehabilitation & Nursing Care Inc. June 1, 2007
Wuesthoff Health System March 24, 2007

Yes, Healthcare will bring down the cost of the living, since in many areas it is no longer available. Why think about paying for something you cannot get?

 
Comment by M.B.A.
2007-10-05 08:21:46

you forgot healthcare insurance companies - Aetna, Cigna, etc…

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-10-05 08:41:28

Just showed medical staff laid off.

Since 40% of Americans do not have health insurance, medical care has become a discretionary expense. Hospitals are laying off staff. All the burn units on the East coast cannot handle what NYC hospitals handled on 9/11, that is the number of layoffs in burn unit treatment centers alone.

Insurance companies I include in Finance. Insurance companies are poorly regulated investment houses.

 
Comment by sf jack
2007-10-05 09:15:56

“40% of Americans do not have health insurance”

Source?

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-10-05 09:32:48

My error SF Jack, it should have said 40% do not have employee covered health insurance, 16% have no insurance.

source US census. So my apologies.
http://tinyurl.com/22yps7

 
Comment by kckid
2007-10-05 09:36:43

If you are here illegally, does that make you an American without health insurance?

 
Comment by Chrisusc
2007-10-05 13:28:35

“If you are here illegally, does that make you an American without health insurance?”

kckid,

shame on you for your racist labeling of hardworking immigrants who are just looking to better their situtations. sarcasm off. LOL

Seriously though, they probably are included in the figures (at least the figures being used by those in favor in government subsidized healthcare).

 
 
Comment by Drowning Pool
2007-10-05 06:56:25

“Did you guys see the crooked jobs report this morning? Somewhere 89000 jobs appeared out of thin air last month and the previous month all of a sudden became positive from a negative 6000.This is such bullsh@T. The government is totally manipulating any number to keep the stock market up.”

You are not kidding, Neil… on top of that incomes supposedly rose 1% more than the phony inflation numbers.

The banks are another interesting story. WaMu has $240 billion in loans, and they are writing down about $400 million, a little more than 0.1%. I find it hard to believe that the default rate is that low. But the bad news is behind us! Buy buy buy… real estate only goes up!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by bluto
2007-10-05 11:08:58

Normally when you make a loan you assume some level of defaults at the beginning, when it becomes obvious you were incorrect you adjust that level up (or more rarely down) to reflect the new reality. This process is repeated as new information becomes available.

 
 
Comment by Gwynster
2007-10-05 07:12:00

One item that was mentioned was teaching positions affecting the upswing. Low paying education and staff jobs are seasonal and frequently come out being part time with no benefits. The good ones are year around, for instance 9 over 12 or 11 over 12.

As worried as government is out here about the wave of retirements hitting us 2006 through 2015, I don’t see anyone gearing up staff for it. Because of how CA gov staffing works, they have to wait for the person to separate and then they open the job to applicants. It’s all about showing steady or declining FTEs. This means that while we may hire 500 new people a month, what we are really doing is replacing 500.

This doesn’t begin to touch on what happens when jobs are allowed to remain vacant en mass and then reclassed into fewer openings to take advantage of new technology in the workplace. That’s a whole other soapbox.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by In Colorado
2007-10-05 07:29:31

FWIW there is no shortage of teachers in my neck of the woods. There was an article in the local paper earlier this year that documented how hard it is for new grads to land FT school teaching positions.

 
Comment by Blano
2007-10-05 08:09:33

A local article here (Michigan) recently noted that as many as 75% of teaching graduates find their jobs out of state.

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2007-10-05 09:44:30

I am PROOF they are lying everyday i send out resume and get ZERO replies almost nobdy retuens a recipet….i had one interview last week for a company that does audio and video tape restorations very close to home, but they were looking for a supervisor. They just won’t hire a grunt who can be trained to be a supervisor.

I see this all over the place, the idea of getting a foot in the door is GONE, They stack the deck by demanding experience which means internships, which you can only get if you are a full time student.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by not a gator
2007-10-05 14:01:39

I see this all over the place, the idea of getting a foot in the door is GONE, They stack the deck by demanding experience which means internships, which you can only get if you are a full time student

So true, I have been a victim of this as well. Internship = full time student or parents paying for it all.

Unpaid internships, as in publishing and journalism, insure that hoi polloi have no access to these careers.

 
Comment by Kyle
2007-10-05 14:05:21

Reminds me of the miserable job market when I graduated college in ‘90.
Spent five years working at a copy shop and sending out resume after resume until I moved to a craphole sunbelt city that was ‘booming’ and got a slightly-better-paying non-degree call center job.

 
 
Comment by Deron
2007-10-05 10:15:54

PT Barnum would be so proud …

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Neil
2007-10-05 05:32:15

As I posted before, the recently foreclosed are better renters (in my complex) than some of the folks they were taking on earlier this year. The ex-FB’s are morose but amicable. So some form of transition would work.

But wait, who will rent their old place? ;)

Got popcorn?
Neil

Comment by Statsman
2007-10-05 06:03:03

In a fit of irony, perhaps they could rent their old place.

That way less houses will be on the market. ;-)

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-05 05:36:28

This is a recipe for disaster, easing screening of renters…

A friend owns 5 houses in el lay, he rents out (he sold 2 others in 2004-2005) and has been a landlord for 30+ years, and the stories he tells about his early days of lording over people, and not being careful about it, could fill a book.

You’d have to have somewhat good credit, with a trw report stating such, to rent from him.

Comment by PoodlePoodle
2007-10-05 05:46:00

I think my LL got a bad intro to lording. She got us, a programmer and a physician. We’re in bed by 9. When we have guests over it is for a dinner party where we serve a nice bottle of wine and refined desserts. Elsewhere in my building we have college aged kids puking in the streets and screaming down the hallways at 4 in the morning. So when we leave she’ll probably get one of those. Then her nice wood floors are toast.

Comment by autechre78
2007-10-05 07:52:59

“screaming down the hallways at 4 in the morning”

that drives me freakin crazy.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by droog
2007-10-05 06:52:59

This is yet another reason for our classic FB to keep their credit card bills current and let their house payment fall behind. It just throws fuel onto the fire of cratering housing prices…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 07:39:45

“As the tenant pool swells with ex-homeowners, however, industry experts say landlords are beginning to show flexibility, as long as the tenants have relatively good credit besides the foreclosure.”

Next thing you know, landlords will be renting to anyone who can fog a mirror!

Comment by manhattanite
2007-10-05 09:25:34

oh yeah??? just try subletting your fully owned co-op apt. in manhattan. no problem for neighbors. but real big problem for apt. owners. renter applicant must provide 6 reference letters (2 personal, 2 business, previous landlord, employer) , verifiable income statement, income of 40x monthly rent, net worth statement, various other paperwork … and then submit to a board interview.

and this is standard procedure. it’s one reason why condos have become increasingly more popular purchases than co-ops.

a nightmare for any manhattan co-op owner trying to sublet their apt.!

 
 
 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2007-10-05 05:22:34

http://www.reuters.com/article/bankingfinancial-SP/idUSN0439931020071005
Miami Valley becomes year’s 3rd failed bank - FDIC’

Comment by REhobbyist
2007-10-05 06:13:33

Thank you for the link. Did you notice the headline to the right of the article, “sherry enema charges dropped?” Is this a related story, possibly describing those 269 depositors who will lose their $14 million?

Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-05 08:38:43

fdicenema

 
 
 
Comment by PoodlePoodle
2007-10-05 05:28:07

I’m watching CNBC and all the traders are saying “a second rate cut is in the bag.” Has the Fed just sold us all down the river? I mean no one is mentioning that the dollar is now close to worthless.

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-10-05 05:53:34

It’s buying more land and house everyday.

Comment by PoodlePoodle
2007-10-05 05:57:15

Yea and less food.

Comment by M.B.A.
2007-10-05 06:32:27

that’s ok - 2/3rds can afford to lose a lot of weight.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by wittbelle
2007-10-05 07:53:15

LOL

 
Comment by Deron
2007-10-05 10:22:29

At this rate a lot of people can’t afford to not lose weight.

 
Comment by not a gator
2007-10-05 14:05:05

I’m ready for a trimmer America.

 
 
 
Comment by Sobay
2007-10-05 06:40:51

MSN called them ‘Benny and the Inkjets”

Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-05 06:55:53

I’ve seen color copies of currency, done on a state of the art copier, and they are of good quality, except for the paper.

About 15 years ago, everybody else in the world recognized the potential problem, and most countries used weird color schemes to discourage counterfeiting.

We only figured it out a few years ago, thus we have ugly $10 and $5 bills, to thwart the problem.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 07:40:52

You can’t eat or drive a house.

 
Comment by Troy
2007-10-05 08:01:22

This is actually an interesting point. Nobody really realizes it, but land values are actually a cost-of-living shock-absorber in the economy.

Eg. should oil prices instantly triple, Fed income tax rates instantly double, and mortgage rates go up similarly, over time the resulting less disposable income would result in land values going DOWN to accomodate.

Land rents are essentially the amount of surplus production/savings we are willing to part with to live somewhere. Reduce the surplus, and rents must go down.

Comment by sf jack
2007-10-05 09:22:34

“Land rents are essentially the amount of surplus production/savings we are willing to part with to live somewhere. Reduce the surplus, and rents must go down.”

*******

This may true over time.

However, as we know, due to the enormous lending bubble and debt binge (”Many thanks Alan Greenspan and the ‘Do Nothing’ Fed!”), such a dynamic has been delayed for many years.

And the latent effect of this finally happening is what will drag this housing downturn on forever…. or what will feel like for many as “forever.”

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by yensoy
2007-10-05 15:19:29

Very good thesis. As I like to think about it, land value is the price of the ticket you need to play the jobs game. If the true returns of the job goes down, land prices will go down.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by francotirador
2007-10-05 08:14:59

test

 
Comment by nhz
2007-10-05 08:25:07

but only in the USA :)

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-05 06:19:09

i thought everyone was pretty much expecting at least two more cuts before Christmas, and it was taken for granted..

Comment by chilidoggg
2007-10-05 06:24:20

this market’s already priced in the next 14 rate cuts.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-05 06:34:33

well, it’s keeping things afloat.. as we whistle past the graveyard.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by Mikey(2)
2007-10-05 06:50:29

That’s what I guess. Seems like an easy solution: forget market fundamentals, just make a rate cut and let the market soar. Is there a theory for how this could ultimately prevent a market meltdown, or must there be calamity to pay the piper in the end?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by M.B.A.
2007-10-05 07:07:37

Yes - since when has any recent event made ’sense’? I think fundamentals are no longer fundamental and any textbook explanation has gone out the window at least 5-10 years ago. I have no idea - other than pure avarice of the powerful - why anything is happening….

 
 
 
 
Comment by cactus
2007-10-05 07:13:05

Strong jobs report and another rate cut?

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-10-05 07:21:09

Have you been watching currencies and gold this morning? The dollar strengthened big time within moments of the jobs number coming out. Gold fell $8 or so.

Fast forward to 10:15 EST. The dollar has given up all its gains and gold is up. Phony number, phony Fed, phony market, phony economy and gold seems to know it.

 
Comment by LA-Architect
2007-10-05 08:03:01

Strong jobs and a rate cute don’t go hand in hand.

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2007-10-05 08:16:10

Neither do sound economics and the Fed.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by ozajh
2007-10-05 08:41:22

Those awful August numbers sure were a convenient backstop for the September cut.

Now it seems they weren’t that bad after all. I’m not holding my breath waiting for the 50BP to be “revised” back to 25BP (or zero).

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Hoz
2007-10-05 09:41:01

Are you suggesting that the Treasury Department and The Federal Reserve changed the numbers for August’s jobs release on Sept 5th when the night before Mr. Henry Paulson said “the economy is doing fine” on the Nightly Business Report?

Our government would never lie to us.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ozajh
2007-10-05 08:59:27

I believe CNBC had Paris Hilton on as a guest commentator this morning. What is her particular area of business expertise, I wonder.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-05 09:18:49

f.f.b.f.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2007-10-05 09:48:00

Fluff Bunny…… To Fluff up the Old tired Mr. Dow Jones

 
Comment by MaryLee
2007-10-05 18:34:15

You. Must. Be. Kidding.

 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-10-05 18:37:10

Every time I snort my wife calls her a successful businesswoman because she gets paid $130,000/half hour for partying.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-10-05 19:21:03

… and “She already sold her property and made $2 million” - my wife, gossip monger ;)

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2007-10-05 05:28:54

Motley Fool commentary on Countrywide:

http://tinyurl.com/33xy3n

Not a fan of the PR offensive.

“Countrywide CEO Angelo Mozilo — the aforementioned butcher’s son — might be right about things being “personal,” but he’s completely misguided on the identity of the victims in this story. It ain’t Countrywide, and it ain’t Mozilo.”

“But for all those poor souls that were bum-rushed into risky loans during a dangerous housing bubble, and who may lose them as interest rates reset, this is now intensely personal. There are few things more personal than the danger of being tossed out of your home because you can’t afford the gimmicky loan you little understood, and whose risks you weren’t prepared to assume.”

Comment by spike66
2007-10-05 06:42:48

“But for all those poor souls”

I still object to to this…they were “shrewd investors” a couple of years ago, cleverly using leverage to acquire a asset whose price continued to skyrocket, as real estate provided a safe refuge for your investing dollar. “Dangerous housing bubble”-yeah, since when.
I used to read MF a few years ago, and it was as rah rah on RE as Money mag and all the rest of the consumer economic outlets.
Rewriting history is a now a game for everyone to play.

Comment by reuven
2007-10-05 07:04:08

Exactly! Three years ago, when people I knew where buying 400K condos (that were converted rental apartments) in Orlando with Option-ARMs, or undeveloped land in Lake County (with no roads or utilities) with 2-year i/o loans and balloon payments, they certainly weren’t suckered into anything.

They went into this fully informed, hoping to be the next Donald Trump.

And when I cautioned them, I was just jealous of their business acumen.

Sure, lenders are sleazy, but far fewer people were hoodwinked than you might think. *Anyone* who was trying to make a lot of money with very little work, fast, was a willing participant.

Comment by In Colorado
2007-10-05 07:35:07

*Anyone* who was trying to make a lot of money with very little work, fast, was a willing participant.

Or as my sister would tell me (as she was cajoling me into becoming a flipper) “Everyone is doing”. And my response to her was: “That is the reason you should sell and get out of this game NOW”. Unfortunately she would not listen to my advice (In fact she became quite angry) and now she is a bag holder.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by auger-inn
2007-10-05 08:05:33

Thanksgiving should be some fun at your family gathering! :)

 
Comment by In Colorado
2007-10-05 09:30:41

We usually do holidays solo (or with friends) for this reason. We like our holidays to be relaxing, and a house full of relatives is not the way to go IMO.

Also “Everyone is doing” should have been “Everyone is doing it”. Obvious, yet I felt compelled to correct it.

 
 
Comment by not a gator
2007-10-05 14:12:35

I remember MONEY doing a cover about how great the US was because the middle class was losing ground, but we still have “access to capital”.

They featured a young Asian-American woman who had bought an apt complex. Kiyosaki was big then, too, bragging about how he supposedly bought rental properties in college. I felt so dumb!

I looked into buying cemetary plots (people die, it’s a can’t lose–right?) but it just struck me as a pig in a poke, especially with people flipping them (yes, there were flipper sites for cemetary plots).

I hate risk. Guess that’s why I held CD’s at .75% (ouchouchouch) at one point … gack. I must have the “permabear” psychological makeup because I thought the stock market should have crashed harder after the dotbomb. It looked too overpriced to me in 2002.

My mistake was using Slashdot as my information source. Totally ignorant about Easy Al & The Rate Cuts.

Thanks everyone for the great education on this site and on iTulip.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by PoodlePoodle
2007-10-05 05:31:01

Ok so jobs are up. Why does the market need a “rate cut?”

Comment by txchick57
2007-10-05 05:34:49

It doesn’t and it will be interesting to see how the market reacts. I suspect the fix is in and they’re gonna rally it via the futures no matter what the report said.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-10-05 06:30:12

The stock market will be up huge at the open.

Comment by txchick57
2007-10-05 07:16:20

Once scenario I could see is a marginal new high made on the indices and then the door shuts. That happens a lot to get the buy stops set above the old highs. Kinda like the undercut in the old lows on the dollar last week or was it this week. I’m so sick of reading BS my head is about to explode.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Shake
2007-10-05 07:36:42

im with you there. there seems to be enough data points to support any argument anyone wants to make.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Blano
2007-10-05 06:41:35

They’ll perceive some weakness somewhere to justify it.

 
 
Comment by IMOUTAHERE
2007-10-05 05:39:12

Debt makes you do crazy things:

CLARKSVILLE, Tennessee (AP) — A business owner shot and killed himself during a City Council meeting Thursday night after members voted against his request to rezone his property, witnesses said.

Mayor Johnny Piper, third from left, talks with City Council members and others outside City Hall

Ronald “Bo” Ward, owner of Bo’s Barber Shop, had told the council his business would go under if he couldn’t get his home rezoned as commercial. After the 5-7 vote Thursday night, Ward stood and walked toward the council.

“Y’all have put me under. … I’m out of here,” he said before shooting himself in the head with a small handgun.

Fire and police officials attending the meeting immediately ushered the audience of about 50 into the hallway, where several people were sobbing.

At least one police officer is always on duty during council meetings, officials said. However, visitors are not required to go through a metal detector or any other screening.

“When a gun gets whipped out like that, someone is going to get shot, but I didn’t know who,” Councilman Bill Summers said. “You could’ve been right next to him, and I don’t think you could have stopped that.”

Mayor Johnny Piper said Thursday’s council meeting would be the last held in that room.

Ward had said the rezoning would increase his property value, allowing him to secure a loan to offset debt he incurred when he expanded his shop.

Comment by M.B.A.
2007-10-05 05:44:13

Wow - now that is excitement for cable access viewers!

Comment by kckid
2007-10-05 10:01:26

America has nothing on third world countries. Tough crowd.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x34i3i_man-dying_news

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-05 06:23:34

the whole thing just sounds too convenient and pre-planned to be strictly related to a permit.. and more like a case of “suicide by cop” to me..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop

Comment by Gwynster
2007-10-05 06:50:14

maybe but if they can spin it correctly, he’ll be the next housing downturn poster child. If this were to have happened in a major US in a few years - he could have been the catlyst for the riots.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-05 07:04:34

a poster child.. hmm..
This guy was an evil capitalist business man who wanted to make even more money.. not exactly a sympathy magnet.

they gotta pick someone more vulnerable.. at least a female.. single.. young kids to support.. partially crippled or legally blind would be a plus.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by autechre78
2007-10-05 08:00:35

man i thought i was cynical, here here. :)

 
Comment by TheGuru
2007-10-05 09:08:42

What are you a Socialist? Stay in Cali, please.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-05 12:06:00

A socialist? me? soytenlee not.

One sign of a socialist is they think they can command people where to go or where to stay.. Cali or otherwise..

 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-10-05 18:38:19

“This guy was an evil capitalist business man” gun owner

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-06 07:30:22

haha.. gun owner.. Nice catch :)

how’d i miss that.. you put me to shame..

 
 
 
Comment by Mikey(2)
2007-10-05 06:58:16

I don’t undertand: I thought “suicide by cop” means the victim gets killed “by” the “cop,” not by himself.

Sounds to me like this guy was in waaaaay over his head in debt, and maybe owed to some bad people. Cliche as it is, it really is only money; at least until it reached a certain dollar amount and either criminal penalties or vengeance.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-05 07:10:27

yeah.. the analogy doesn’t exactly fit.

I was thinking something on the order of: He had been contemplating suicide for a while but didn’t have the courage.. so he set the situation up where he could blame it on someone or something beside himself.

“goddamnit! Give me that variance or else!”

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Mikey(2)
2007-10-05 08:30:17

Ah, I see what you meant. “I can’t take coming to these meetings anymore; you people make me sick!” (Bang!) Well, if you’re gonna do it, might as well have some fun with it: “$1.29 for a candybar?” (BANG!); “The Smiths are coming over for dinner?” (BANG!); “We’re out of milk?” (BANG!)

 
 
 
 
Comment by fran chise
2007-10-05 08:53:52

I sat on one of these councils, and I always worried about someone taking a shot at us. The lack of metal detectors, etc., is typical with smaller cities. I was ready to dive behind the podium, not that it would have stopped the bullet. I’m surprised that it took this long for something like this to happen, and I’m surprised that he didn’t take all of them with him.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-10-05 18:41:53

Not funny. Former associate was on planning commission and finally small city council and said the same thing.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2007-10-05 09:48:33

I wish this activity would catch on here in Thurston County, Washington state. We have an extremely contentious mandated county wide rezoning process, more or less still on-going, with court challenges all over the place, blah blah.
I don’t care if I sound heartless. I am sick of the very word ‘rezoning’. I’m even sicker of greedy landowners trying to squeeze every drop of money from their land, at the expense of water, their neighbors, good community planning, etc.
I’ll even donate the bullets.

Comment by fran chise
2007-10-05 10:07:00

They ALWAYS talk about how this will improve the community. Their favorite is how much [fill in the city] will get from taxes. They IGNORE how much it will cost with problems, extra police, schools, etc. And their closest friends are realtors.

 
 
Comment by Former FB
2007-10-05 12:21:13

I feel bad for the guy, I’ve been checking with old friends in Clarksville, at this point I’m about 90% certain that the guy cut my hair about 100 times in the late 80s.

I guess he went to a County Commissioners meeting a couple weeks ago with his request and got punted to the city council. In addition to any financial mistakes that he made, he was getting killed financially by the 101st getting deployed every other year over and over again. He lost money each time and wasn’t going to survive the next one.

He must have been pretty desperate to come up with a zoning scheme like that just to allow him to borrow more. I’m glad he didn’t decide to take anyone with him.

Comment by Sarcastic
2007-10-05 21:59:03

I feel bad for the guy, I’ve been checking with old friends in Clarksville, at this point I’m about 90% certain that the guy cut my hair about 100 times in the late 80s.

Probably cut a lot of mullets

Comment by Former FB
2007-10-06 20:34:46

Yeah, those are popular with GIs.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by kahunabear
Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-05 05:57:15

I hear Czar sales are down dramatically…

Good work!

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-10-05 06:57:18

That is funny as $hit. You are doing a great job with these Kahunabear. Thank you for posting them.

 
Comment by wittbelle
2007-10-05 08:07:47

Bravo!!!! I love the credit czar’s glazed eyes.

Comment by wittbelle
2007-10-05 08:09:13

mortgage czar, that is…

 
 
Comment by kahunabear
2007-10-05 08:19:00

Thanks, to all of y’all. Your comments give me inspiration to keep doing them.

This one was a little bizarre, but so is the idea of a mortgage czar.

 
 
Comment by jinwnc
2007-10-05 05:49:11

WAMU 3Q profits fall 75%. Sees bright future.

Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-10-05 05:55:24

Is it really enough to cover exposure?

Oct. 5 (Bloomberg) — Washington Mutual Inc., the biggest U.S. savings and loan, said third-quarter net income fell about 75 percent because of “a weakening housing market and disruptions in the secondary market.”

The Seattle-based company said in a statement that it will record a $975 million loan-loss provision and losses and writedowns of $410 million on mortgage loans and securities. Chief Executive Officer Kerry Killinger said he expects results to improve in the fourth quarter.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aVUmuAojhEKM&refer=home

Comment by jinwnc
2007-10-05 06:13:49

Merrill to lose “up to” .50 per share.

Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-10-05 06:38:48

The Street dot com:

Merrill will take $4.5 billion in writedowns on its holdings of collaterlized debt obligations and subprime mortgages. It will also write off $967 million worth of leveraged lending commitments.

http://tinyurl.com/2vyetk

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by palmetto
2007-10-05 07:25:17

Poof!

 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2007-10-05 06:22:38

Remember that Business week article, where FB’s were paying the minimum on a WaMu neg-am, but WaMu was booking profit as if the FB had paid full amortization? I’m still angry that this Enron-style accounting is still legal.

What happens when those neg-ams reset and ultimately foreclose, and they find out that WaMu essentially faked all that profit? Is WaMu going to restate five years of earnings? Try to cover it with firesales and swallow it all in one quarter? What will their stockholders think then? (I’m not being rehtorical, I don’t the answer?)

Comment by Gwynster
2007-10-05 07:19:04

“I’m still angry that this Enron-style accounting is still legal.”

Blame the Swiss >; )

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-10-05 06:01:09

It was a great exercise in sheeple manipulation. Bloomberg:

Payrolls grew by 110,000 after an 89,000 increase in August, the Labor Department said today in Washington. Revisions added 118,000 workers to payroll figures previously reported for July and August.

Most of the August revision came in government payrolls, which expanded by 57,000 during the month, reflecting hiring of teachers for the new school year. Previously, the Labor Department had reported a decline in government payrolls in August.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a7FekSPg6CQM&refer=home

Comment by arizonadude
2007-10-05 06:23:57

More lies from the gubernment to keep the stock market from tanking.CNBC is all over it telling viewers all is well, bulls are in control.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-05 06:29:52

employment figures are so easy to manipulate i dunno why some people put much stock in them.. in agricultural areas it might be 11% one day and 0% the next..

let see.. should we include ag workers this time, or not?

Comment by autechre78
2007-10-05 08:18:06

“i dunno why some people put much stock in them”

that’s a good point. i heard a similar thing from one of the guest analysts on cnbc this morning, that is until the stupid anchor cut him off. when asked about his reaction to the job numbers, he responded by saying that he was cautious about reacting to the “daily headlines”

 
 
 
Comment by watcher
2007-10-05 06:05:31

baltimore gets the blues:

For Baltimore Housing Slump Slows a Revival

As home sales dry up, tax revenues fade, foreclosures have surged, hiring is down and a new caution is inhibiting activity.

“I don’t see a recession mentality,” said Atwood Collins III, executive vice president of the M&T Bank Corporation, who complains that the national media are amplifying the bad news. “But you would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to be a little infected by what is being said.”

http://tinyurl.com/37uaa5

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2007-10-05 18:21:48

Maybe if we didn’t kill about 1 person a day in Balti-morgue, people would love to go there since “it’s different here.” Or, maybe the grossly overpriced housing might have something to do with the crumbling housing market? Hmm… interested in a Balti-morgue rowhome with no signs of life nearby for over $300,000? We still have those on sale… And that’s just the beginning of the idiocy here in Maryland!

 
 
Comment by Key Lime Toast
2007-10-05 06:06:34

If you’re a renter and want to move out be sure to give 30 days notice…… or else.

Charlotte man was stabbed after planning to move out
STAFF REPORT

PORT CHARLOTTE — A Port Charlotte man stabbed his roommate with a broken glass mug Wednesday morning because the roommate intended to move out and had not given 30 days’ notice, according to authorities.

Detectives found the man, Gary Samuel Boyd, 43, on Wednesday afternoon at a bar in Punta Gorda. He was questioned and later arrested on one count of aggravated battery with a weapon.

The roommate, Richard Paul Hoyle, 52, told detectives Boyd got angry when he told him he planned to move out.

According to detectives, Boyd hit Hoyle in the nose with a mug, in the head with an ashtray and then used a broken piece of the mug to try to cut Hoyle’s throat.

He then hit Hoyle’s head several times with a weed trimmer and also kicked and punched him in the head, according to sheriff’s officials.

Hoyle is recovering at Lee Memorial Hospital.

Comment by dude
2007-10-05 08:11:18

Hoyle obviously didn’t play his cards right.

 
Comment by Wickedheart
2007-10-05 09:03:41

Hmmm, given what just happened it might have been safer to sneak out in the middle of the night.

 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-10-05 06:07:59

- I received an email response from Senator Schumer yesterday. it was a response from an email I sent several months ago. I’m sure he didn’t write it but it was very detailed and tried to explain his bailout measures and measures for the future. More and more I agree with Ben that bailouts will not work. Then why spend the money? Below is my response to Mr. Schumer.

Dear Senator Schumer,

I appreciate your response to my email but I find major flaws in your reasoning. First off, you have not been able to address the single largest contradiction in your thinking. Every year millions upon millions of dollars are spent by the government to provide “affordable housing” to citizens. Now you are proposing spending large quantities of money in keeping housing most unaffordable. The current levels of prices are based neither on economic fundamentals nor local incomes. Anybody that is proposing an increase on the caps on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is especially championing a cause of keeping home prices out of reach of lower and middle-income citizens. I believe that is who you are saying you are serving with your plans and proposals. If you want to serve those people then let prices fall to their natural levels and we will once again have “affordable housing”.

You point out that foreclosures can be costly for local governments. Good! These local governments are complicit in the overbuilding of ghastly developments throughout the United States. I have seen this with my own eyes in the Midwest, in the South and here in the Northeast. Local governments saw dollar signs at every turn and ignored the long-term good of their citizens. I have seen them sell their souls, and the souls of their fellow citizens, for nothing more than a wink and a nod from Corporate America’s gentry. Shame on them! They too need to learn the value of a dollar and put their citizens first.

I support your ideas for making lenders more accountable. I just wonder if you will stand by that as the Wall Street community throws millions of dollars into the battle to block such regulation. And the other question I have is, “where were you, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Hillary Clinton and the rest of the indignant politicians five years ago?” It didn’t take a genius to see this disaster coming. It just took two eyes and some common sense.

Do you notice how I use the word “citizens” when I type? Government officials have forgotten that they represent, we, the citizens of the United States. We are not “consumers”. Quit calling us consumers. We are not “consumers” of housing. We live in houses. I find the arguments that you pose for your actions to be confused and contradictory. You write, “there is no perfect solution to the current subprime mortgage foreclosure crisis”. You are wrong. Let everybody involved take their lumps and let’s move forward with a viable economy that rewards saving and punishes stupidity. This is a simple solution. Be a leader and tell people what is best for this country, even if they don’t want to hear it.

I would welcome the ability to speak to you further about this topic. Unfortunately, I do not think you would welcome such a conversation because I would be armed with truth and common sense and the proposals you, and your fellow politicians propose, lack both of those qualities. That may be harsh but the truth is always harsh. That is why it is so frequently ignored. I hope you will make the best decisions for the long-term good of this nation but so far I am sorry to say that you have presented no evidence to support my hopes.

NYCityBoy

Comment by palmetto
2007-10-05 06:18:05

Excellent, NYCityBoy. You said everything I wanted to say.

Comment by spike66
2007-10-05 06:45:08

NYCB,
Great letter. If you get a response, please post.

 
 
Comment by REhobbyist
2007-10-05 06:19:42

Nice, NYCB.

 
Comment by Leighsong
2007-10-05 06:42:06

Standing ovation.

I have appointments today. May I use part of your response in one that I am composing for some of the dolts up here in WI?

I’m not lazy, but why reinvent the wheel?

Cursey,
Leigh

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-10-05 07:02:04

Sure.

 
 
Comment by Blano
2007-10-05 06:46:19

Excellent letter. Well done.

Comment by garrison
2007-10-05 07:20:20

I second that, however despite how well reasoned and written it is chances that it will be seen by anybody other than a clerk are slim to none

 
 
Comment by CranialCrusader
2007-10-05 07:44:30

Can you please post the specific bill number that spawned the original communication with the senator? I’m trying to compile a list of “bailout bills”

Thank you!

Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-10-05 12:34:21

The email I received didn’t list a bill number. It just had this sentence, “the Borrowers Protection Act of 2007″.

 
 
Comment by droog
2007-10-05 07:57:26

Rock on, NYCB! We have to continue hammering back at our representatives that we see through their self-dealing and deceptions.

 
Comment by LostAngels
2007-10-05 08:04:48

Great letter. You summed up my feelings on a bailout perfectly.

 
Comment by snabs
2007-10-05 09:36:43

A bottle of Jack Daniels for NYCityBoy.

 
Comment by Ernest
2007-10-05 10:43:45

“We are not “consumers”. Quit calling us consumers. We are not “consumers” of housing”

Exactly! We are not consumers nor are we their “customers”.

 
 
Comment by phillygal
2007-10-05 06:16:22

Just read the exchange on the FLA thread yesterday, between FLA realtor chick and some HBB regulars.

I thought it was neat how she started out with the Realtor mocha-latte-spielatta but when posters hit her with hard data and numbers crunching, she caved.

I wonder if her name is…DIANE???

Comment by palmetto
2007-10-05 06:31:35

Who is Diane? I must’ve missed something. Suzanne I know about, but Diane?

I also wonder how many realtors lurk here. And speaking of Florida, “Doctor” Lawrence Yun was in town giving a spiel to the Pinellas County Board of Realtors. Unbestinkinglievable. The local newscasters were hyperventilating about it. Yun predicts, get this, that the Florida housing market will rebound this spring!!! That buyers should buy now, because the Florida housing market will go up 25 to 30% over the next five years!!!! LMAO!

Comment by phillygal
2007-10-05 06:58:09

Diane used to post about how house prices couldn’t drop too much. IIRC last fall-winter.

Yun predicts, get this, that the Florida housing market will rebound this spring!!!

You’ve got to admit it must be hard for most realtors to accept that life as they know it will change.

This was my favorite from FlaReCk:

Comment by Florida Realtor Chick
2007-10-04 17:33:14

90-120K might look pretty good to someone who lives in Buffalo, New York in February of 2008 when they have 6′ of snow in their yard.

No worries, palmetto, the Florida housing market will be saved by…Buffalonians!

Comment by palmetto
2007-10-05 07:15:12

“the Florida housing market will be saved by…Buffalonians!”

Which was part of Yun’s spiel, boomers and Northerners are coming to save the day!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by phillygal
2007-10-05 08:09:33

again…?

Oh I get, it, they must have been MIA the first time.

 
 
 
 
Comment by WatchingTheSagaUnfold
2007-10-05 07:10:27

‘mocha-latte-spielatta’

LOL

 
Comment by arroyogrande
2007-10-05 07:10:49

“Florida Realtor Chick”

Is this Realtor one of the few that was predicting this housing downturn to begin with? If not, why should I entertain her idea that it is indeed ending?

 
 
Comment by M.B.A.
Comment by palmetto
2007-10-05 06:51:24

Great article. Speaking of dirt, locally in the Tampa Bay area, we seem to be having an explosion of marijuana grow houses. Seems like every night there’s a story on the news about another grown house being busted. Yikes!

Comment by goirishgohoosiers
2007-10-05 06:52:59

That must be the FL equivalent of the meth house explosion story that is a regular feature on local TV news in Indiana.

 
Comment by nhz
2007-10-05 08:36:32

it can get worse … I’m now regularly reading stories about guys who get busted for cracking down marijuana grow houses. Not allowed in the Netherlands! Of course these guys are sent by the competition and not by the police, but anyway … our justice department is simply not interested in killing the goose that lays so many golden eggs for the local Dutch economy. And of course, loosers who are not willing to work in the Netherlands are entitled to get this extra 100K euro or so every year this way, gotta have some money for those expensives homes, women and toys …

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-05 06:52:59

after balancing all that out, I think I still best go and take a long look with my own eyes.

 
 
Comment by cocoa beach
2007-10-05 06:46:19

A story about collateral damage from southcocoabeach.com

This unwinding of the housing bubble has touched many lives. Besides the flippers who were too late to the party and people who bought more home than they could afford with exotic mortgages, some innocent victims have been dragged down, too. A deadbeat homeowner in my building has decided to walk away from her mortgage and will be leaving the remaining owners with thousands in unpaid assessments. My life will go on even though it riles me to have to pay for someone else’s bad choices. It may hurt more for my retired neighbors. More heartbreaking is the impact on the decent people who run the small grocery store close to my home. They didn’t speculate on pre-construction condos or try to flip houses and yet their lives have been changed forever.

It all began when construction began on the big empty parcel of land that was to become Magnolia Bay. Business picked up as workers walked over for lunch, snacks, cigarettes and so forth and the promise of all the new families that would be moving in made the future look bright. Shortly thereafter, the trailer park next door that housed the biggest part of our grocer’s customers was purchased. With plans to build townhomes on the site, the trailers were progressively moved out or torn down until the property was empty. Things were still looking good even with the loss of the regulars. With 77 new half million dollar plus Magnolia Bay units and 18 new townhomes right next door, the customer base was growing and being upgraded and the construction workers were providing business in the interim. Life was good.

Then, Magnolia Bay sales slowed and the planned 4 buildings got scaled back to 3. Scheduled closings failed to happen and the construction workers finished their work and moved on. Today, the grand buildings at Magnolia Bay are mostly empty and dust blows in the sea breeze on the site of the old trailer park. The only townhomes there today are in the picture on the “coming soon” sign. Business at the grocer who stocked my favorite beer in a corner of the walk-in cooler at my request dried up to a trickle and, this week, he told me that this is his last month there. He can’t make it any longer.

There are multiple losers in this story; the developers of Magnolia Bay, the trailer park residents, some of whom had lived there for decades, the owners of the trailer park property, the customers of Express Grocer including me and, most of all, Sam, the grocer and his family, and Gary, his long-time employee, who has been known to extend credit to a down-on-his-luck customer or two. Sam, your family, and Gary, you will be missed by many. You are good people.

My favorite Express Grocer memory will always be the sign that appeared on the door one day. It read:

“Do not ask Gary for credit. He is not allowed to give it anymore. Sam”

Comment by palmetto
2007-10-05 07:08:34

cocoa beach, this is what I hate most about the bubble and that story is a heartbreaker. The bubble has literally ruined formerly nice areas overnight and chewed up long time residents and business people.

On another note, what’s happening with the beach erosion over your way? It is big news over here, they’ve been showing footage, mostly from the Palm Beach area, of condos practically at water’s edge, looks like they’re about to fall into the Atlantic. Wouldn’t hurt my feelings.

Comment by cocoa beach
2007-10-05 08:39:22

Here in Cocoa Beach it’s not too bad. We had a pretty wide beach to start with but down in Mel Beach it’s already up to the corners of some of the buildings. At least we got one good clean day of glassy waves before the wind picked back up.

 
 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2007-10-05 07:38:02

Cocoa Beach, similar story out my way in Moab, Utah, home of two national parks and mtn bike Mecca. I mention that because there’s very little affordable housing, as in most resort towns. Power House Lane is so named because it ends in a small old-time power generating plant, now shut down. Power House Lane was home to some of Moab’s funkiest characters, most very smart and caring and march-to-your-own-drummer types. Same story, a rich weasel bought the trailer court there and kicked everyone out to build condos. Now it sits, vacant land, and many of Moab’s worker bees left because they couldn’t find a place to live. Second verse, same as the first.

Comment by speedingpullet
2007-10-05 11:15:46

Such a pity - Moab is a really nice town.
If the husband gets to go Work-From-home in the next few years, I’ll be leaning on him heavily to buy a place out that way.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2007-10-05 11:27:34

be sure you can take the heat!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by speedingpullet
2007-10-05 11:30:27

I live in the dead centre of L.A’s San Fernando Valley

Heat, schmeat ;-)

 
 
 
 
Comment by dwkunkel
2007-10-05 08:47:25

Sign seen in a sleazy Nebraska bar many years ago:

Our credit manager is Helen Wait. If you want credit, go to Helen Wait.

Comment by asublimemoment77
2008-05-04 18:58:51

i saw a real estate sigs that was almost identical in Ohio. Want this house? Go to Helen Wait.

 
 
 
Comment by James Bednar
2007-10-05 06:47:42

How about this? An $850,000 (46%) price reduction in an affluent NJ suburb. Two years on the market and currently at just about half it’s original list price. Still sitting..

http://njrereport.com/index.php/2007/10/05/price-reduced-850005-46/

Comment by txchick57
2007-10-05 07:13:17

I’d say that ugly POS is overpriced at 899K.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-05 07:17:00

Was that Carmela’s place?

 
Comment by Gwynster
2007-10-05 07:28:28

even if it were only 100k, the price is too high taking into account NJ property taxes.

Comment by Mikey(2)
2007-10-05 08:44:47

Comments said the taxes were only $6100. One comment mentioned that it’s right on the highway, or as my wife and I like to joke, “Easy access to major arteries - just jump over the guard rail.” This falls into the category of “Throw it up there and hope it sticks.” Surely they’re touting this as a great bargain at 50% off, as if 50% off means anything.

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-10-05 06:49:19

Bloomberg — Homebuilders Liquidate Assets as Threat to Survival Spurs Sales

“It’s desperation time and some companies may not make it,” said Alex Barron, an industry analyst…. “At this point in the housing cycle, if you have too much debt, it’s hard to get out from under it.”

“They are all losing money,” Burns said. “They’ll talk in terms of gross margin and it sounds like they made money, but they actually lost money because they didn’t make their costs.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=adFsGVxspArw&refer=home

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-10-05 07:09:57

“…in the worst residential real estate slump since the 1930s.”

It’s nice to see an article reference that time frame - most MSM articles can’t see past the 90s - and we all know this is off to a much worse start than that bust already.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2007-10-05 07:18:42

But they are a “STRONG BUY”. How do I know that? Because Stephen Kim told me so. The jenius said the same thing back in December. Oops!

HOW DO ANY OF THESE SHILLS HAVE ANY CREDIBILITY LEFT?

The media is devoid of thought and soul.

 
 
Comment by vozworth
2007-10-05 07:00:31

NEW YORK, Oct 5 (Reuters) - The New York Federal Reserve confirmed that it took no action in the open market on Friday at its usual time for open market operations of 9:30 a.m. ET (1330 GMT).

Federal funds were trading steady at 4.75 percent midmorning, matching the target rate the Fed sets.
********************************************
looks like the patterns are changing.

Comment by palmetto
2007-10-05 07:12:26

I’m shocked, I tell you, shocked.

 
Comment by watcher
2007-10-05 07:20:20

That would explain the very brief dollar rally. If you blinked you missed it.

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=s

 
Comment by vozworth
2007-10-05 09:35:42

from a reuters update:
“That was the first working day since Aug. 24 the Fed had refrained from adding temporary liquidity to the banking system via open market operations, according to the New York Fed”

Comment by vozworth
2007-10-05 13:34:42

30 working days of daily operations sustaining the “liquididty requirements” in the US banking system.

How in the name of all that is Holy, can this type of action, not instill the greatest of fears among those who are paying attention?

This is clearly systemic preservation, it simply cannot be anything more than that at the core. Aggressive and overt manipulation of a failed system that is supporting a debt laden economy not responding to monetary growth.

I honestly do not know whether the FED has a desire for swift and painful inflation or slow and numbing deflation. Why the guessing? Why the outright confusion from the government officials?

The experience will pass, but the memmories of these days will not pass in collective conscience. The United Stated used to be a country of proud working men and women, educated and motivated children, but we have reduced ourselves to the “consumer”. The idiot. The poor.

Can ya tell Im a little pissed about the whole situation?

 
 
Comment by vozworth
2007-10-05 09:40:14

OTTAWA, Oct 5 (Reuters) - The Bank of Canada injected C$420 million ($429 million) in overnight money into the markets on Friday to lower the overnight interest rate toward the central bank’s target and improve liquidity.

The bank intervened regularly in August during a credit crunch, but stayed out of the market from mid-August until late September.

It operates through Special Purchase and Resale Agreements, buying securities with the agreement to sell them back the next business day.
*******************************
and remember $1.00 US = $0.98 CAD

Comment by kelowna_steve
2007-10-05 16:23:07

Uh no you’ve got it the wrong way as $1.00 US = $1.02 CAD. The MSM here in Canada is going crazy the last couple weeks since the loonie overtook the greenback. Interviews almost daily with Canucks going down stateside to flaunt our newfound purchasing power. Most are just trying to block out the bad memories of a 64 cent buck back in 2003 and now its our turn to kick sand in someones face for a change. Quite silly really as we’re about a year behind in the housing bust and all the same idiotic lending standards were (are) happening here in the great white north.

Comment by kelowna_steve
2007-10-05 17:02:15

Oops that was supposed to come out as $1.00 CAD = $1.02 US. Too busy counting all my newfound purchasing power I guess.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Shake
2007-10-05 07:33:23

THE FED
Half-point rate cut may be enough: Fed’s Kohn

By Greg Robb, MarketWatch
Last Update: 9:41 AM ET Oct 5, 2007
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The Federal Reserve’s half-point rate cut on Sept. 18 may be enough to keep the economy from sinking from the financial market turmoil, said Donald Kohn, the vice-chairman of the Fed Board on Friday.

Comment by watcher
2007-10-05 07:45:23

Notice how the disinformation campaign ramps up before every Fed meeting. They like to keep you guessing while Da Boys position themselves based on insider knowledge. Free market capitalism, oh yea.

 
Comment by txchick57
2007-10-05 07:45:24

Ha! Floating the trial balloon, eh? I don’t envy those guys - next time, Cramer may drop trou and moon the camera!

 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2007-10-05 07:51:28

shows what he knows

nothing’s gonna keep this ship from sinking, the list is already quite pronounced

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 08:07:12

Strong jobs report = no more FFR cuts

 
 
Comment by reuven
2007-10-05 07:33:36

I wanted to scream when I read the “New Speak” that Nancy Pelosi used yesterday:

http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/48734135_nancy_pelosi_nancy_pelosi_democrats_are_committed_taking_concrete_action_strengthen_housing

She now calls forgiven debt “phantom income”.

Whether or not you want to give deadbeats a tax break is one thing. But call it what it is: A tax break. Someone who doesn’t have to pay taxes on income.

Please don’t call it “Phantom Income”. It isn’t. And in many cases, it was HELOC’d right into their countertops, their driveways, or their new boobs. It was very real income that they got tax-free when they decided to be deadbeats.

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 08:35:17

“phantom income”

More like transitory spending money.

 
Comment by Tom
2007-10-05 12:44:32

Agreed, while the companies who book the loss get it as a tax break.

 
 
Comment by reuven
2007-10-05 07:36:47

The New York post doesn’t call forgiven debt “phantom income.” They call it a “surprise tax bill”

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10052007/business/business_briefs.htm

I’m going to start calling my estimated tax payments and payroll taxes “Surprise Tax Bills”. Maybe people will feel sorry for me, too

Comment by sf jack
2007-10-05 09:39:55

Exactly.

Why does this nation reward the dishonest and foolhardy?

Why?

Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and Chris Dodd - anyone primping themselves and gaining exposure for possible bailouts of any kind - please answer for me that question.

The idea that if there are any bailouts, that it may not matter and save anyone, doesn’t sit well with me.

Its the intentions of the leadership that matter. They are signaling that they will continue rewarding the wrong behaviors. Time and again.

Comment by not a gator
2007-10-05 14:33:15

All roads lead to Rome…

I used to believe in the Democratic Party, back in the days of Walter Mondale. Now the Dems are bought and paid for by the FIRE sector, and populism has been redefined to mean handouts for bad actors. Ugh.

DEFEAT HILARY CLINTON AND HER INSURANCE INDUSTRY BUDDIES. Voting for Obama, guys.

 
 
 
Comment by reuven
2007-10-05 07:56:17

Do a realtor.com (or your favorite MLS search) on Celebration, FL. There are over 1500 homes and condos currently listed for sale. And there’s a lot more in new condos, and “rentals” that would probably sell if the owner thought he had a chance of getting an offer.

Comment by In Colorado
2007-10-05 09:49:12

I understand that a lot of those homes are vacation homes for people who like to visit Disneyworld. It will be interesting to see how many people will continue to drop 5K or more for a vacation with the mouse (I have been noticing that Disney is running a commerical touting how affordable a WDW vacation can be (meals and airfare are not included in the sample $1600 package). I’m guessing that even their “budget” vacation for a family with 2 small kids will still hit the mid 3K mark once the dust settles. Attendance numbers should be interesting as the sound of wallets slamming shut rolls across the nation.

Comment by not a gator
2007-10-05 14:37:57

Yeah, right, those young families will pay for it on CC and roll it into a Sallie Mae loan, because they owe it to their children, yadda yadda.

Also, Suze Orzeman says you don’t have to save to send your kids to college (the little snots can take care of themselves when they’re 18), so, really, you have no excuse not to give your children the experience of a lifetime at WDW.

I actually wondered how the h*** they were paying for it when I took JetBlue from Boston to Orlando (on my way to Gville). Seated next to multiple _young_ couples with two to three small children dressed in Disney gear. Felt depressed because “obviously” everyone was making more money than me. Boy, have my eyes been opened.

Canceled my subscription to MONEY last week. No more taking advice from broke people!

 
 
 
Comment by txchick57
2007-10-05 08:05:56

And in the category of “Most Clueless, Obscenely Wealthy, Self-Absorbed Inhabitant of Fantasyland” the Oscar goes to:

http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/37498/george-clooney-running-for-president

Comment by M.B.A.
2007-10-05 08:29:04

He is such a dirtbag - and self-righteous.
However, he could win on looks alone…look at the stupid women who line up to be on his arm for 2 weeks flat.

 
Comment by fran chise
2007-10-05 09:10:37

Actually, you have my vote for president, but since clueless is part of the job description….

Comment by fran chise
2007-10-05 09:12:07

And, are you obscenely wealthy? That would be 2 strikes against you since that is also part of the job description

 
 
Comment by not a gator
2007-10-05 14:40:34

You know, I’ve been put off by the Joshua Tree jokes lately, but this tears it.

Someone introduce him to a Joshua Tree–stat!

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 08:06:11

The ever-resilient bull is running again today, despite a $5.5b write down at Merrill, an announcement that WaMu’s earnings will drop 75 percent, and a strong jobs report (= no more FFR cuts). Needless to say, Merrill’s stock price is up on the bad news. This bull market never met bad news that was not bullish for stock prices!

Merrill pegs write-down at $5.5 billion
Quarterly loss may hit 50 cents a share on ‘much more severe’ fallout

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/merrill-lynch-write-down-nearly/story.aspx?guid=%7BA8C4BEB8%2DEB92%2D4EB3%2D8A11%2DDC49CE6EDD0B%7D

http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/marketsummary/

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 08:30:52

Question for oldtimers in the virtual room: Do profit warnings traditionally presage higher share prices?

And BTW, don’t a strong jobs report and news that oil prices are headed north of $81/bl signal rampaging inflation and decreased chance of further FFR cuts?

Washington Mutual issues profit warning
Analysts say lender’s woes put more focus on future Fed rate moves

By Murray Coleman & Steve Gelsi, MarketWatch
Last Update: 11:06 AM ET Oct 5, 2007

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — With another key home lender sounding alarms about deteriorating conditions in mortgage markets, analysts say the role of Federal Reserve policymakers figures to take even more prominence in coming months.

Reinforcing views that the plight of the financial sector is closely tied to upcoming moves by the Fed on interest rates, Washington Mutual Inc. (WM Last: 36.00+0.72+2.04% 11:07am 10/05/2007) said Friday that it expects third-quarter earnings to drop by about 75%.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/washington-mutual-says-profit-decline/story.aspx?guid=%7BEA782697%2D4C1D%2D4048%2DAA0E%2D8AF51A92B1D0%7D

 
 
Comment by hobo in mass
2007-10-05 08:10:20

anybody care to comment on the cause of the dramatic drop in the LIBOR in the past month?

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 12:14:31

Really?

Libor three-month euro, sterling rates edge lower
Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:53 AM BST145

LONDON, Oct 5 (Reuters) - London interbank offered rates for three-month euro deposits fixed a touch lower on Friday, but remained near six-year highs, while sterling rates dipped to fresh eight-week lows.

Libor rates for three-month euros were fixed at 4.76438 percent, compared with 4.77375 percent on Thursday, still nearly 80 basis points above the European Central Bank’s benchmark rate at 4.00 percent, near this week’s six-year high.

http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=allBreakingNews&storyID=2007-10-05T105254Z_01_L05663211_RTRIDST_0_LIBOR-THREE-MONTH-EURO-STERLING-RATES-EDGE-LOWER.XML

 
 
Comment by txchick57
2007-10-05 08:14:46

Nice, you can see the area of attack here. I expect to see an overthrow (potentially fake breakout)

https://image.minyanville.com/assets/FCK_Aug2007/File/Links%20Charts%201/sg2007100539157.gif

Comment by Blano
2007-10-05 08:24:49

I looked before asking……care to explain??

Comment by txchick57
2007-10-05 08:31:47

The S&P has a double top under attack here. I expect to see them “break it out” over that, maybe even close it above but then we’ll see if it holds. It sure didn’t back in July!

There’s probably all manner of buy to cover stops right above that horizontal line as well as buy stops for the new leg up. I can’t imagine trading like that but these young’uns do it every day. Just like the beta trade I pointed out in August. You just knew they’d do it and they’re doing it in spades (check RIMM, BIDU, AMZN, GOOG) but I’m too afraid of losing money to follow along.

Comment by Blano
2007-10-05 08:42:47

Ok, let me try to wrap my brain around what you said….you think it’ll go a bit higher over the horizontal line, then take a dive?? Thanks for your patience.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by txchick57
2007-10-05 09:46:45

I don’t know but it wouldn’t shock me a bit to see a reversal. OTOH, it wouldn’t shock me to see them keep gunning it as the catchup is getting intense now. This is why my short bets are in early ‘08 options.

 
 
Comment by Peterpaul
2007-10-05 10:00:05

BIDU…ohhh BIDU. It is a perfect example of how the markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

When I returned from China in August ‘06 BIDU was under $100. I thought it to be over priced then as:
1. Chinese companies generally make Enron accounting look good.
2. There are a lot of internet users but most just play games (hard to make money off of ads).
3. BIDU regularly links to websites where one can download copyrightable material; this will be stopped, eventually.

I almost bought put options for it in early “07. But I remembered about GOOG and how I thought it could not go higher than $300…and now BIDU is over $300!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 08:33:32

My take: The bull has morphed into a headless chicken.

Comment by Blano
2007-10-05 08:44:47

Meaning it will briefly go every which way, then keel over and die??

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 08:52:42

That’s my hunch. I claim no expertise here — merely a fascination with how the market can rally day-in and day-out on what appear to be terrible news stories regarding the fundamental value of companies (esp. banks with lots of toxic subprime debt they have to write down).

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-10-05 10:13:42

PB,

Since Aug 20th, an idiot investing in any stock in any Asian country except Japan would have made 25%. On a small day like today (China’s mainland stock exchange has been closed all week to try to cool the economy), Goldman issued a buy rec on industrial metal stocks, duh. This is after a 200% runup since Aug 9th, the stocks are up another 7 - 14%. Percentages are not including the dollar collapse against the Asian currencies.

You have to do something with the profits. Might as well invest some back in the US, its the only stock market that has not performed over the last 5 years.

 
Comment by Observer
2007-10-05 10:19:01

They rally because it is believed the worst news is already priced in. The losses reported this week are old news. However, they are also rallying because investors believe that these banks have now thrown out everything including the “kitchen sink”. I’m no expert, but my hunch tells me that the worse is not over yet and there are still other appliances that will need to be thrown out.

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-10-05 10:23:23

And since the Federal Reserve has always bailed out the Street risk takers and has bailed them out again, you should join the parade. Who cares if it makes the dollar valueless? The Federal Reserve would like a valueless dollar, less real moneys the government has to pay back.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 12:09:56

“They rally because it is believed the worst news is already priced in.”

When did that happen? I must have slept through the 20% correction.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 12:11:26

“The Federal Reserve would like a valueless dollar, less real moneys the government has to pay back.”

I agree with this.

 
Comment by Observer
2007-10-05 13:33:56

“When did that happen? I must have slept through the 20% correction.”

The financials were beaten down in August, that’s when it was priced in. It seems there is also a feeling that the worst of the credit crunch and financial turmoil is over. I’m not saying I agree with it but that is the reality on the Street right now.

 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2007-10-05 19:07:50

Optimist: They’ve thrown out the kitchen sink

Pessimist: The Hindenburg is leaking hydrogen and covered in static electricity and it’s only a matter of time before passengers start leaping for their lives.

Business News: The Zeppelin has lightened their load and Captain Pruss reports dumping ballast has fixed the problem of being stern heavy. In other news…

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-10-05 08:15:30

BOSTON (MarketWatch) — The U.S. attorney in Brooklyn has started a criminal investigation into a pair of hedge funds run by Bear Stearns Cos. that had positions in mortgage-backed securities and subsequently collapsed last summer….

http://tinyurl.com/28mylb

 
Comment by Hoz
2007-10-05 08:49:17

Dean Foods Company
Dallas, TX
Dean Foods Co., the nation’s largest dairy producer, said Tuesday that record high milk prices are cutting into profits, and the company plans to cut 600 to 700 jobs or more than 2 percent of its work force. The company lowered its profit expectations for the third quarter and all of 2007. Milk and ice cream prices have been surging this year. The national average price for a gallon of whole milk rose from $3.29 in January to $3.87 in August, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The chairman and chief executive of Dallas-based Dean Foods, said high dairy commodity costs have created the most difficult challenges the company has ever faced, “and 2007 results have been well short of our expectations.” Dean officials had expected growth in the milk supply to force dairy prices lower, but they now believe prices will remain high the rest of the year. The company has about 26,500 employees, said a spokeswoman. Dean sells dairy goods under more than 50 local and regional brands and many private labels.
Approximate Affected Workforce: 501-1000
Source: The Associated Press State & Local Wire - October 2, 2007

Kraft Foods Inc.
Northfield, IL
More job cuts and plant closings are on tap for Kraft, but it’s too soon to tell how Oscar Mayer — whose headquarters are in Madison — or corporate Kraft employees based here may be affected. The changes also involve splitting off Oscar Mayer meats and Kraft pizza products into individual business units. They currently are combined with macaroni and cheese in the Convenient Meals sector. In a memo sent to employees last week, the Kraft Chief Executive Officer said at least 600 more positions are expected to be cut by early next year, primarily from corporate and regional white-collar ranks. In early 2008, Kraft will be reorganized into eight North American business units, with Oscar Mayer as one of them. Kraft/Oscar Mayer has a total of about 2,000 employees in Madison, including one of seven Oscar Mayer factories. The Madison plant makes hot dogs and cold cuts such as bologna, ham and salami.
Approximate Affected Workforce: 501-1000
Source: The Wisconsin State Journal - October 2, 2007

Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, Inc.
Winston-Salem, NC
Effingham, IL
Effingham will lose a national food making facility when Krispy Kreme closes its factory there in December, city officials said this week. The operation employs 47 people, and the company has indicated that employees will be laid off permanently by Dec. 21. The struggling North Carolina-based company is trying to find a similar operation to purchase the Effingham location. Krispy Kreme’s shares dropped to record lows earlier this month after reporting disappointing earnings. One of the ways it is trying to improve performance is by selling one of its two manufacturing facilities. The batch plant and distribution center in Effingham was designed to provide doughnut mix for a planned production expansion outside its Southeastern U.S. base.
Approximate Affected Workforce: 1-50
Source: Herald & Review - September 29, 2007

Topps Meat Co.
Newark, NJ
Topps Meat Co. on Friday said it was closing its business, six days after it was forced to issue the second-largest beef recall in U.S. history.
On Sept. 25 Topps began recalling frozen hamburger patties that may have been contaminated after with the E. coli bacteria strain O157:H7. The recall eventually ballooned to 21.7 million pounds of ground beef.
Source: AP Oct 5, 2007

Comment by txchick57
2007-10-05 08:53:29

Who cares. Hedge fund managers and prop desk top guns don’t eat that stuff. Nobody matters but them anyway. The rest of us just exist to serve and amuse them.

Comment by Hoz
2007-10-05 09:20:38

Its hedonic inflation Tx! Food gets expensive, you don’t have to eat.

People can no longer afford dairy products in the US. Companies lay off workers. “…expected growth in the milk supply to force dairy prices lower, but they now believe prices will remain high the rest of the year. …” The entire milk production in the US could be sold to Asia.

Comment by watcher
2007-10-05 11:08:44

Exactly. Asia will consume any milk we can’t afford. I believe hedonics would involve subsituting water for milk, though.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by txchick57
2007-10-05 12:01:22

I guess it was the bitter renter in me coming out while watching this insanity day after day.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by WatchingTheSagaUnfold
2007-10-05 08:53:13

“YOU ARE NOT BIDDING ON THE LAND - YOU ARE BIDDING ON THE RIGHT TO BID ON THE LAND”

http://tinyurl.com/245a75

Comment by Hoz
2007-10-05 10:40:04

That is a cool scam to steal a few hundred dollars.
“do not contact the owner”

LOL and the mope has bidders.

 
 
Comment by Xpovos
2007-10-05 08:54:33

Yet another scapegoat. I wonder how much these two issues will intertwine. I can see it getting very ugly politically.
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1007/461286.html

 
 
Comment by Hoz
2007-10-05 08:58:50

“The Nordic countries are the world’s greenest and, despite the cold winters, Finland is the best country to live in, according to a Reader’s Digest study released on Friday.

Finland was followed by Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Austria.

“Finland wins high marks for air and water quality, a low incidence of infant disease and how well it protects citizens from water pollution and natural disasters,” the study said.

The United States was 23rd on the list of 141 countries, Britain was 25th and China 84th. Nations at the bottom of the table were all African….”

http://tinyurl.com/3apd77

At least we’re ahead of Britain.

Comment by watcher
2007-10-05 11:11:37

A matter of opinion, I suppose. I wouldn’t care to live in the Arctic circle; why did you emigrate Hoz?

Comment by Hoz
2007-10-05 12:29:27

I grew up in the North. I may have gone to school out west, but I never got into the California life style. I never understood the frowns and disparaging remarks when I put a shotgun into my car at the University to go do some bird hunting. (this is before violent acts were perpetrated at schools). Yet I love the couple hundred inches of snow. I like snowmobiling and skiing - now more CC than downhill. I can go to the local river (back yard) and fly fish for trout spring through fall, the ponds (back yard) for bass, the local lakes for Walleye, Superior for Salmon. I can sit on the deck and listen to the loons for hours. In 30 minutes, (in the summer) I can be at the Harbor and sailing in Lake Superior for a weekend cruise. (IMHO, Great Lakes sailing is hard - much easier on the West coast where the wind is consistent). The golf courses are not as good, blue grass fairways instead of bent grass. It hurts the elbow when smacking a divot - not everything is perfect - LOL. The upper Midwestern winters are miserable if you do not enjoy the outdoors. The insects can be life threatening with their voracity. But I still remember the fleas in San Francisco and they were present on everything.

I suppose it is emigration, I went back home. :>)

Comment by Waiting for the Fall
2007-10-05 12:59:22

Got my degree at MTU many, many years back. I hear you, Hoz. My wife is a fly fishing instructor for the Wulff School. Give me those eery loon voices at night and I’m as close to Heaven as I’ll ever get…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by speedingpullet
2007-10-05 11:28:15

Finland is indeed very clean and beautiful, but, like many of the Scandanavian countries, has a terrible problem with alcoholism.

IIRC, Finland leads the way on that front.
Not much to do except drink heavily when the temps are at -10C and you only get 6 hours of daylight in every 24 during the winter.

Even putting something like 300% duty on alcohol has not really dented the problem - many Finnish have taken to making their own ‘vodka’ in stills, somewhere out in the woods.

Great architecture, though.

Comment by not a gator
2007-10-05 14:49:49

They also take North Sea cruises to get super drunk. Guess it’s duty free or something.

There’s a reason Scandinavians left home in droves for Minnesota, Wisconsin, and even the Dakotas during the 19th century.

OTOH, they have managed things much better for their people than the US for many years. My great-grandfather, who died in 1979, was impressed by healthcare (which was socialized) in Norway. They let him recuperate from surgery for about 6 weeks at a reasonable cost. American hospital would have booted him out in 2, even though he was a wealthy man. Probably the first time in his life he questioned free market capitalism (he was an entrepreneur).

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 09:03:55

Here is something quite interesting.

Look at the volume on COMP compared to the steadily rising index level this year. Consider three periods in the linked chart:

mid April - mid July — volume steady around 2b w/steadily rising index level from 2460 to 2730

mid July - mid August — index crashes 2730 to 2390 on high volume (hit over 3b shares on many days)

mid August - Oct 4 — volume markedly thinner (only a few days over 2b) and index in parabolic blowout mode

Oct 5 — index blows higher on lowest volume of the period (below 1b, at 722.49M)

Are the playas setting up a replay of Black Monday timed for the 20-yr anniversary?

http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/intchart.asp?symb=COMP&time=7&freq=1&comp=&compidx=aaaaa%7E0&compind=&uf=0&ma=&maval=&lf=1&lf2=&lf3=&type=2&size=1&txtstyle=&style=&submitted=true&intflavor=basic&origurl=%2Ftools%2Fquotes%2Fintchart.asp

 
Comment by kckid
2007-10-05 09:26:53

Question? If a borrower facing foreclosure does not have to pay income tax on the portion of debt forgiven by the lender would it not be wise for someone to pay off their kids mortgage, become the lender, let them go into foreclosure, renegotiate the debt to say 20 cents on the dollar, and then deduct from their taxes the loss that was sustained as the lender? Will this work under the New law passed by Congress?

Comment by Kim
2007-10-05 12:24:09

Wow. Don’t know the answer to the question, but I like that line of thinking. There had to be something in it for the powers that be to go along with the bailout: nice way to pass down wealth (and then some), free of gift or estate taxes.

 
Comment by not a gator
2007-10-05 15:05:40

Thanks for posting this. I finally got off my a**e (not literally, as I did in on the computer ^_^) and wrote a letter to Sen. Bill Nelson about this bailout Quatsch.

 
 
Comment by Shake
2007-10-05 10:13:21

SuperModels10/4/2007 12:01 AM ET
For home builders, the worst is to come
Builders soberly predict even lower prices as millions of homes sit empty and would-be buyers (who must meet tighter mortgage qualifications) bide their time.

By Jon Markman

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/ForHomeBuildersTheWorstIsToCome.aspx?page=all

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 10:51:10

We really need independent confirmation on that eye-popping ‘17.4 million vacant houses’ number. If that is anywhere near correct, this may prove to be the biggest piece of housing news so far in 2007, IMNHO.

“According to a report by investment bank Punk Ziegel, there are 17.4 million vacant houses in the country, and only 4.3 million of those are second homes. That means there are more ownerless houses in the United States today as a percentage of total inventory than at any time since records have been kept.”

Comment by Jas Jain
2007-10-05 12:31:47


Census Bureau Report _______2006Q2 2007Q2
Vacant………………………. 16,350 17,387

That is where the 17.4M number comes from. They do Q surveys and have been doing it for decades.

Jas

 
Comment by Jas Jain
2007-10-05 12:37:01

“this may prove to be the biggest piece of housing news so far in 2007, IMNHO.”

I have known about this “news” about Vacant Units for more than two years.

Link:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/hvs/qtr207/q207press.pdf

Hope that this helps.

Jas

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2007-10-05 16:18:38

PB. If the 17.4 million figure is true ,it would be because the speculators/flippers made up a huge portion of the market sales . It would be the biggest RE ponzi scheme in history as well as over building (if they are including new homes/condos ).

 
 
 
Comment by Jas Jain
2007-10-05 10:22:11


How many Realt-Whores have real jobs today compared to a year ago?

I guess that we can deduct 1.5M Realt-Whores from employment numbers, YoY. And how about Mort-gage Breakers? And “Escort” services?? And more.

Housing IS a big deal for the economy and, especially, jobs. Denial will end one day.

There is a good reason why employment is the laggiest indicator.

Jas

Comment by Joe
2007-10-05 14:04:19

Add to that all the illegal immigrants who are now unemployed and you have a better picture in regards to the slowdown thats been here for over a year, it just has not hit the official books YET!!

 
 
Comment by Shake
2007-10-05 10:23:23

Jubak’s Journal10/5/2007 12:01 AM ET
Our biggest export: Inflation
The sinking U.S. dollar, and the inflation it causes, could throw the runaway Chinese economy off the tracks. And the entire globe would suffer the consequences.

By Jim Jubak

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/OurBiggestExportInflation.aspx?page=all

 
Comment by Michael Viking
2007-10-05 10:36:26

Just an on-the-ground type thing: I’ve had a real estate search for years and years for the south suburbs of Portland. For the past 3-4 months I’ve seen almost no new listings. Nearly every email has been for a “price changed” notification. And in the past month, most of the price changes are short sells. And glory be, the past few weeks have been price changed short sells owned by realtors. It’s not different here, but it’s sure getting more enjoyable by the minute.

Comment by Yossarian
2007-10-05 12:59:14

Micheal .. near me in West Linn, are two mcmansions for sale on highway 43 .. 999,999$ each… for sale now a year plus. On my street, two houses were torn down for their lots… one was done three months ago in the height of the credit crunch… there has been no further work, and the lot is empty. The other lot was 1/2 acre, and a home… two 700k mcmansions in a neighborhood where getting 400k was a stretch, even at the peak. Been for sale for about five months… last week, an open house… one car all day, could have been another realtor.
I bought 13 years ago. I’m ok. I can’t wait for the foreclosure notices. These developers built huge homes, tore out trees, and really affected the neighborhood’s character and privacy. The developers can fry, as far as I’m concerned.

Comment by Michael Viking
2007-10-05 16:25:02

I agree: Let ‘em fry.

Maybe we should try to get a little housing bubble party going on in the area…

 
 
 
Comment by bj
2007-10-05 10:39:00

I am so confused because I really thought it was different here, but this is the fourth condo development in Minneapolis to go into foreclosure or cancellation this week…

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1465742.html

But, but…we have such a strong economy. We have 3M, Medtronic, Cargill. And another mild winter has just been predicted…And, and…Who wouldn’t want a $1.9 million condo here?!

 
Comment by cj
2007-10-05 11:52:38

Houston Chronicle:


The fire that destroyed the home of Texas Supreme Court Justice David Medina was intentionally set, the Harris County Fire Marshal’s Office announced today.

According to public records, a mortgage company filed to foreclose on the home in June 2006. Green said Medina and the mortgage company reached an agreement the following December. Green said the foreclosure filing on the house was a “very, very big red flag” for investigators.

 
Comment by tampaesq
2007-10-05 12:37:01

Nice article on the front of the Tampa Trib today:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/oct/04/apartment-vacancies-abound/?news-breaking

I remember trying to find a 2-bedroom apartment when I moved here 2 years ago (probably the worst possible time), and not finding anything inhabitable and near to downtown for under $1200/mo. Now, I see tons of former condo-conversions coming back as apartments (the former Archstone Bayshore behind the Gandy Publix on Himes comes to mind, as well as “The OC” on Himes just north of Henderson–I still crack up every time I drive by that one). They are all offering incentives because they chased all the renters out to convert and are now at maybe 50% occupancy. The nice thing is, they are nicer units now since all of the “upgrades” were installed, and the rent is cheaper than it was before. The glue-sniffers trying to rent one-bedroom condos in the new buildings downtown and in Channelside are still around though, wishing for their $1600/mo.

 
Comment by BJ
2007-10-05 14:21:03

Another way to punish those who are financially responsible.
The FDIC advised the banks to freeze the teaser rates and ” make them fixed”!
So the irresponsible get a fixed rate at 1% with no money down and cash out to pay for all of the their toys and bills, while the responsible people pay the going interest rate and will need a sizable down payment.
This will also stop the foreclosures and thus the prices will not come down.
This is maddening beyond belief!!

http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/05/real_estate/fdic_rate_freeze/index.htm?postversion=2007100517

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-05 14:35:45

Who would get to pay for this lame-brained measure?

Comment by not a gator
2007-10-05 15:12:17

Actually, this isn’t quite as stupid as it seems. May prevent some bank failures (keep a ‘performing’ loan, however dismally). In the GD, too many banks called loans and simply hastened their own demise.

Remember, the FDIC insurance is backed up by you and me, the taxpayers. Sure, it would be fun to see some of these Masters of the Universe crash and burn but quite frankly, the less banks that fail, the better.

Reserve requirements IIRC are really low (thanks, Easy Al!) so the situation is already precarious. Whereas in the GD it took, what was it, 2 or 3 years for banks to start failing.

 
 
 
Comment by BJ
2007-10-05 15:05:13

I am sure they expect the tax payers to foot the bill.
I wouldn’t have a problem if they passed a tax law that the banks could spread reporting their losses out over a 5 year period. That would soften the blow.
But this idea is outrageous.
I wonder of the next group of buyers can “demand” the same 1% fixed rate; no money down and cash out at closing as they want to give the current mortgagees?
If they won’t offer this same sweet deal to future buyers is that not discrimination?
The responsible potential buyers were priced out of the market because of non- exsistant loan regulations that drove the prices to the stratosphere.
Now they want them to subsidize those who had no business getting a mortgage in the first place. gr-r-r-r

Comment by Housing Wizard
2007-10-05 16:11:43

Dang them ,dang them
they ought to take a rope and hang them .

Really ,I think you have a good point .It is discrimination to give to one group and not another . I hope a constitution lawyer brings up your points before this is all said and done . I for one feel discrimination because I can afford my payment so I don’t get a break .

 
 
Comment by AKron
2007-10-05 16:53:01

OT, and another dig at the US:

“Iraq has ordered $100 million worth of light military equipment from China for its police force, contending that the United States was unable to provide the materiel and is too slow to deliver arms shipments, Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said yesterday.”

“The China deal, not previously made public, has alarmed military analysts who note that Iraq’s security forces already are unable to account for more than 190,000 weapons supplied by the United States, many of which are believed to be in the hands of Shiite and Sunni militias, insurgents and other forces seeking to destabilize Iraq and target U.S. troops. ”

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/100407S.shtml

 
Comment by Mad Boy
2007-10-05 18:06:22

Last night it was so much fun listening to Mary Umberger, Chicago Triubne real estate columnist.

( http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/columnists/chi-maryumberger,0,4570876.columnist )

I can’t find a link to her comments last night but to paraphrase “sellers need to be more realistic with their asking price, but buyers shouldn’t hold out for a great deal.”

 
Comment by Reuven
2007-10-05 20:02:54

If any of you need a quick pick-me-up, just watch the Suzanne Researched This video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubsd-tWYmZw

 
Comment by Lurkeeloo
2007-10-05 21:48:01

Hi All,

Eddie Murphy’s former mansion is for sale with a 3.5 mil “discount” - priced at only $6.5 mil. I’m thinking I could qualify to buy it. Oops wait, those were last year’s standards. Oh well…

http://www.sacbee.com/749/story/417354.html

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post